Hour 1: Hal's Comments

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: Hal’s Comments

Date: November 25, 2025
Podcast: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg (ESPN New York)
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Theme: Dissecting Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner’s comments on team profitability, fan frustration, and the dynamics of spending and winning in Major League Baseball.

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Episode Overview

This hour dives deep into Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner’s contentious comments about team profitability and spending, sparking debate about fan expectations, the legacy of the Steinbrenner family, and how money (or lack of it) relates to on-field success. The hosts analyze Hal’s statements, challenge common fan complaints, reflect on leadership in the Yankees and beyond, and briefly touch on hockey highlights and heartwarming community moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Michael Kay Lunchtime Incident (00:30–07:19)

• Classic Office ‘Invite Politics’: The hosts reenact a humorous episode involving Michael Kay choosing whom to invite on air for Knicks talk, exposing the subtle (and not-so-subtle) pecking order at ESPN NY.
• Notable Quote:
  “[Michael] sees me, our executive Steve is standing right there and he says to me, ‘Thanks for coming on, good friend. Thanks.’ ... he’s the one who didn’t even want you there. And then he also will make you feel bad. That’s the kind of maniac this man is. He could go choke on it.” – Peter Rosenberg (06:08)
• Behind-the-Scenes Banter: Teasing about lunch choices, calorie counting, and Trader Joe’s “trits” instead of Ritz crackers.

2. Don’s Night at MSG: Broadcasting Hockey Chaos & Community Outreach (07:20–09:42)

• Recap of Devils Game & Broadcast Call:
  • Replay Don’s excited end-game call during a Devils win, including post-game fights—“Put a pitchfork in this one.” (08:05, Don)
  • Discussion about the thrill and “old-time hockey” feel of a line brawl, with Don’s voice conveying genuine joy.
• Heartfelt Community Story:
  • Don shares how a child from his youth baseball team, a cancer survivor, was honored as part of Hockey Fights Cancer, getting to sign a contract with Martin Brodeur and participate with Devils players:

    “He’s only 7 years old and ... he’s gone through a lot but he’s doing well. So good job out of the Devils doing that.” – Don (09:49)

3. Audio Replay: Devils Big Finish & Fights (10:27–12:05)

• Rebroadcast of Don’s Play-by-Play:
  • High-drama final seconds, fisticuffs, and Don’s “pitchfork in this one” call get replayed and enthusiastically analyzed by Hahn and Rosenberg.
  • The joy in Don’s commentary highlights the emotional highs of live sports media.

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4. The Main Event: Hal Steinbrenner’s Statement (12:05–19:54)

a) The Controversial Comment

• The Clip:
  John Heyman: “I’m assuming you make a profit [with the Yankees]. Is that fair?”
  Hal Steinbrenner: “No, it’s not fair, actually ... That’s not a fair statement or an accurate statement. Everybody wants to talk about revenues. They need to talk about our expenses ...” (12:54–13:20)

b) Host Analysis & Reaction

• Fans in Uproar:
  Don observes that fans “did not take well” to Hal’s claims of losses/expenses, seeing them as disingenuous for a team worth north of $10 billion (13:29).
• Ownership & Expectations:
  “They believe the Yankees have the ability to spend more ... and it looks foolish that Hal Steinbrenner is now crying poverty.” – Don (13:31)
• Brand vs. Business:
  Alan reiterates the Yankees' absurd global brand status, but also tries to clarify Hal’s position:
  “He knows we want to field a team that we know can win a championship ... when fans ... criticize how much he spends ... he’s still [saying] ‘we will not [lower payroll].’” (14:39–15:46)
• Spending Context:
  The Yankees have the third-highest payroll, behind the Dodgers and Mets, both with extremely wealthy ownership, unlike the more “mom and pop” structure of the Yankees’ family business (15:55–18:45).
• Comparative Logic:
  “He’s not sitting on $16 billion of hedge fund money that he can dip into anytime he wants. ... Still, the Yankees win every year, they’re competitive every year, they put the best product they can on the field.” – Don (18:46)
• Efficiency, Not Spending:
  The real complaint isn’t how much Hal spends, but how he spends. “Complain ... about the fact that the money isn’t being spent well.” – Don (19:10)

c) Historic Perspective: George vs. Hal

• George Steinbrenner Mythology:
  George spent big, but Don stresses it was because, then, winning led to profit (16:08–17:26).
  “George wanted to win ... but also wanted to turn a profit. Would he be willing to lose hundreds of millions to win a championship? ... He was trying to win because at that time it wasn’t just good enough to be the Yankees and just print money.” – Don (16:17)
• Shareholders Expectation:
  “Do you think those 45% of the shareholders want to lose money en route to a championship ... or be happy to be competitive and still make money?” – Alan (17:51)

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5. Fan Calls: Airing Grievances & Moving the Debate (24:01–37:06)

a) Frustration with Hal and Cashman

• Caller Brian (Sleepy Hollow):
  Expressed irritation with Hal's continued faith in Brian Cashman and a perception of “complacency”:

  “He spends money, don’t get me wrong, but I think there’s just this culture of complacency ... If we just get ... Bellinger, if we just do a couple more things ...” (24:19)

• Alan’s Rebuttal:
  “You want an all-star at every position ... those are things you don’t pay for. It’s better coaching, better infrastructure ... Yankees didn’t have enough talent to win a championship? Or did they not play good baseball?” (24:50)

b) Profitability & Transparency Questioned

• Caller Aaron (Astoria):
  Annoyed with Hal’s evasive answers:

  “Do any of you guys think the Yankees are operating at a loss?” (33:46)
  “Just don’t blatantly lie to me.” (34:09)

• Hosts’ Clarification:
  Replay Hal’s answer, parse semantics—“I don’t want to get into it.”
  “It’s none of your business.” – Don (36:06)
  “He can’t say ‘that’s not accurate’ if it’s accurate ... at least sometimes no, or he’s lying.” – Peter (36:26–36:29)
• Bottom Line:
  Debate spirals into semantics over how much profit is “reasonable,” with Don cautioning against negotiating Hal’s personal earnings and Alan emphasizing the inefficiency of Yankees spending.

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6. The Bigger Problem: Cashman, Not Cash (41:24–43:23)

• Hosts’ Consensus:
  The core fan frustration isn’t “too little spending” but rather that Hal lets Brian Cashman remain as GM despite a lack of recent championships and questionable roster-building:

  “What I’m surmising ... is this hopelessness now that the only way this franchise will ever move on from Brian Cashman ... is if Hal Steinbrenner sold the team.” – Alan (42:43)

• Accountability:
  “Complain about the guy making the decisions, not the guy signing the checks.”

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7. Salary Cap and MLB Parity: A Rant (45:18–47:47)

• Gilbert from Brooklyn Calls Out Fan Hypocrisy:

  “Stop your blood clot crying when it’s not your money. ... I signed up to hear your sports, to hear your commentary, not give me financial, you know, peace and whatnot.” (44:43)

• Don’s Classic Riff on MLB’s Structure:
  Major League Baseball is a “pyramid scheme” with low-payroll teams pocketing revenue-sharing, and the lack of a salary cap being central to the endless “spend more money” debate:

  “They’re funneling players to the big market teams. They’re stealing the revenue instead of putting it back at the team, they’re put[ting] it in their pocket ... It’s a big scam. It’s a pyramid scheme.” (47:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Peter Rosenberg, on Michael Kay’s invite habits:
  “He could go choke on it.” (06:13)
• Don, on the “crying poverty” narrative:
  “It looks foolish that Hal Steinbrenner is now crying poverty when he’s got a franchise that’s worth north of $10 billion.” (13:31)
• Alan, on New York-sized expectations:
  “You need stars in New York—you can’t win without them. But what we loved about the 90s teams was ... homegrown developed talent that became stars.” (20:23)
• Don, on MLB finances:
  “Major league baseball is a pyramid scheme ... stealing the revenue ... it’s a big scam.” (47:32)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:30–07:19: Michael Kay invitation story, office humor
• 07:20–09:42: Don’s Devils game call; heartwarming Hockey Fights Cancer story
• 12:05–19:54: Discussion of Hal Steinbrenner’s profit comments and reactions
• 24:01–37:06: Fan calls on Hal, Cashman, and Yankee expectations
• 41:24–43:23: Hosts agree Cashman is the main issue, not Hal’s spending
• 44:43–47:47: Salary cap rant, “pyramid scheme” tirade

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Recap & Takeaways

• Big Theme: Fan frustration with Yankees management centers less on “spending enough” and more on leadership—especially Brian Cashman’s tenure and how the money is spent.
• Hal’s Comments: Universally disliked by fans, but hosts defend the business realities at play, arguing the club does spend enough and the focus should be on competence, not payroll.
• Money Isn’t Everything: Large payrolls don’t automatically guarantee championships. Executing on spending and development is key.
• Final Thought:
  The fanbase’s sense of “hopelessness” reflects a desire for new direction, but the show’s consensus is that Hal’s willingness to spend is not the problem—it’s accountability for how that money is invested.

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For listeners: The hour offers both comedic relief (office invites, lunch debates), sharp insight into team finances, and hard truths about what drives winning. Most importantly, it reframes the Yankees debate: It’s not about checking sizes—it’s about who’s holding the pen.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Don, one day you're not gonna play football anymore. And if there's a God up above, it'll be soon. Han.

[C]

Huge. No, but big. Yeah. And Rosenberg.

[D]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[B]

This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[C]

This is Don, Han and Rosenberg.

[E]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[C]

ESPN New York and streaming live on.

[B]

YouTube 304, the big city. Don Hahn and Rosenberg with you until 7:00'.

[C]

Clock.

[B]

A full frontal four hours. Good Lord of sports talk.

[D]

I, I, I. 0. 0 respect for what we're attempting to do.

[B]

Zero respect. You know why?

[C]

You know why? It happened right. Oh, happened right in front of me.

[D]

They threw it. They couldn't let go.

[C]

Just couldn't stop.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

259, 58.

[B]

What I took from it was, you know what? Two thirds of the show is on. What do we care? All right, we're spilling into the 3 o' clock hour.

[C]

But Alan and I were and Michael was involved to stay. And what did he do? Got right up.

[B]

He got right up and left. Well, and by the way, happy Thanksgiving. And back Michael is.

[D]

Tell me this isn't the most typical Michael thing ever. I, I arrived here, I got stopped because one of our, our big executives family is here and I happen to have a personal relationship with them. So I stopped, I was saying hello to the family and that took about five minutes. And Alan comes out, blah, blah. And then I see you guys going to go on the air and then I see Anthony and he goes, hey, the guys are going on with Michael. Michael said. What was the quote about if Michael. What did Michael say about me coming on the air?

[B]

It wasn't.

[C]

I'm good.

[D]

What was it?

[C]

I think he said if he wants.

[D]

He was like, oh, and if he wants.

[C]

Did he give you. And I'm all set.

[D]

He basically no. So he basically said if he wants.

[B]

Sure. But like he want.

[D]

He, well, Anthony made it sound like he asked for Don and Allen because he saw you guys.

[C]

No, he walked in the room.

[B]

No, he walked. Gonna tell you exactly how it went. Down.

[D]

Okay. Truth, please.

[B]

We were in John's office, our pinhead suit having lunch.

[D]

Was John there?

[B]

John was there. Jacob was there. Anthony was there. Mike Brownshear was there. So they can all confirm this story.

[D]

People from other networks were there.

[B]

Sure. Michael came in and requested the presence of Allen. He's like, would you like to come on? And Alan looked at his food, kind of processed.

[D]

Did he really feel like doing this?

[B]

And then he said, yeah, sure.

[C]

That is not what happened. And at exactly what happened. I didn't look at my food.

[B]

But you. You were about to eat, and you're like, oh.

[C]

I said, sure.

[B]

Say sure.

[D]

Hold on. But don't get defensive. You're telling us you would. You didn't have a thought where you went? I might rather just sit here for another 10 minutes and eat my life.

[B]

It was already, like, talk for four hours. So we're eating.

[C]

I was. I was ready to go, but he.

[B]

He was ready to go, but he was. He was just about processing.

[D]

Sure.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then as Michael's leaving the room, he's like, oh, and, Don, if you want to come to. Yes. So I believe that if I were not in the room like you.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

It would have gone down the exact same way for both of us. I think he wanted Alan. He felt bad that he wasn't asking me, and then just threw me the token invitation that he didn't have to throw to you because you weren't in the room.

[D]

So let me ask you a question, then. Why didn't you say, I'm. You know what? I'm good. That's the only question. See, Alan, this is where it gets to the crux, the love. Because why didn't Don just go? Yeah, I'm all set. I'm gonna sit here. You obviously didn't want me. You wanted Nick. Probably some Nick talk with Alan.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

And now he threw you a bone, and you took it. Why did you say, you know what? Take your scraps and shovel?

[B]

What happened was, is that Alan goes in. Yeah. And he. They're talking Nicks. I finished up what I was doing, and then I came in a little.

[C]

Bit later on, and no more Nicks.

[B]

You finished the Nick conversation, and then you proceeded to make fun of me.

[C]

Well, he asked me a question, and so it goes.

[B]

All of a sudden, it's like, how are you handling Don's ego? He's a star now.

[D]

So Michael was asking that.

[C]

Yeah. And how. How would you respond?

[D]

I'd probably play along with it in some way as one, which is what.

[B]

I Did the point of the conversation.

[C]

And no one believes it.

[B]

Only an Allen ass got it.

[D]

And you, you piggyback.

[B]

If I was with you, then both of us would have been out.

[D]

And you're saying I actually made the right choice? You're saying to sit and enjoy my lunch like a gentleman? Yes, because Alan got me some delicious chicken salad from Trader J'.

[B]

It.

[D]

Cranberry and mayo, delicious celery.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

By the way.

[D]

You want to know. You want. By the way, do you want to know the kind of shape that Alan Han is in? You see how thin this man is now? Good in shape. You eat that whole thing as your lunch. Oh, yeah, the whole thing.

[C]

Whole thing.

[D]

Don, do you know how many calories are in one serving of this thing?

[B]

How many?

[D]

350.

[C]

That's it.

[D]

Do you know how many. Hold on. How many servings are in the thing?

[B]

The two.

[D]

Alan's eyes.

[C]

Just.

[B]

Alan's eyes just.

[C]

I never. I never looked at it.

[D]

But. No, no, don't look at it because you're doing great. It doesn't matter. I need to worry about this stuff. You're tall.

[B]

Tall.

[D]

Drinking.

[B]

Three.

[D]

Three servings. He's doing a thousand calories worth of chicken salad.

[C]

But that's not. That's life.

[B]

That's fine.

[C]

It's lunch.

[B]

Yeah, well, listen, he can eat.

[D]

No, because look, that's what I'm saying.

[C]

Any bread?

[D]

No bread.

[C]

Oh, no bread.

[D]

No bread.

[C]

Any other unnecessary.

[D]

Well, you have some crackers with it.

[B]

Crack.

[C]

I mean, what are they? It's air.

[D]

I don't. Those Ritz crackers are not air. They got some delicious butter salt, as we know.

[C]

Those aren't Ritz.

[D]

Oh, those are not Ritz. They're Trader Joe's Fake Ritz. They're trits. Anyways, it was delightful. I enjoyed it. I missed you guys. I hope. But that. Oh, the whole point of it all was after that where Michael clearly didn't care if I was on the air with him. He sees me, our executive Steve is standing right there and he says to me, thanks for coming on, good friend. Thanks.

[B]

Well, that's how he plays it. Why does he's always going to spin it to make you feel bad when he had no intention to talk to you first.

[D]

Yeah, he's the one who didn't even want you there. And then he also will make you feel bad. That's the kind of maniac this man is. He could go choke on it.

[C]

I think it's just all in fun, but.

[D]

But he's still deranged. It Is all in fun, but he's deranged. Can't both be true?

[C]

Well, you talk about deranged. He's asking Don about, you know, the gig now that, you know you're doing this show and now you're also doing games. And Michael making it clear, like, you know, what I did for 20 years, do you see how hard it is now? And Don was just going through what he does on a daily basis. And then Michael said, why do you go to the Morning Skate? It's Tonka Trucks. You don't have to go to that. And it's almost like he's trying to get Don to back off a little. Like, you know what? Maybe Michael's right. I shouldn't go to the Morning Skate. And that's when I stepped in. I said, hey, honestly, he did.

[B]

He stepped in.

[C]

This guy's developing credibility. He's doing the right thing. Don't start talking him out of doing things. He should be at everything.

[D]

Get your bag.

[C]

Get your bag.

[B]

It was that moment, like an airplane, when the wife. Like, he never has a second cup of coffee at home. I started thinking, why do I go to the Morning Skate? Boy, it would really save a lot of time. And then Alan jumped in. He's like, no, no, no.

[D]

Well, no, but you know why?

[C]

Because Michael.

[D]

Michael has been around. Michael's been around the team for 30 some years. And when he decides to show up before a game, if he wants to go down to the field and walk around, and it's like him doing everyone else a favor. Hey, how you doing? Shake some hands, kiss some babies.

[B]

People are getting more out of meeting him than Vice.

[C]

It's like, oh, he's here. Oh, he's here.

[D]

He doesn't matter.

[C]

This must be a big game.

[D]

But by the way, speaking of Don's work.

[B]

Let's hear.

[C]

Let's go.

[D]

Let's go back to last night. MSG Networks.

[C]

This is the ending, right?

[F]

Big face off. An exciting one down. Huge one time by Raymond. And a save by Marcho. Raymond gets it back. Can't get it through to break it with a shot. Blocked in front, point seven. It's over, the Devils.

[B]

Hold on.

[F]

Put a pitchfork in this one.

[B]

Kenny's rocking back and forth. Bryce, he's banging into me up here.

[E]

What happened with that?

[B]

There was some fighting going on after the game, and Kenny was really into it.

[C]

Where is the. Where's the call of the. The fisticuffs that happened at the end? Do we have that?

[B]

I don't think we have that. I Don't see it on. Oh, you.

[D]

You called the fight too.

[C]

Oh yeah. I think we can get. No, no, it. It was. It's great because the joy in Don's voice because he's getting to call like a donnybrook. Like he's. This is line brawl happening at the end of a game. Like this is old school. This is old time.

[D]

Did you get to call some lefts and rights and actual punches?

[C]

Didn't get that far, right.

[B]

No, but it was just. It was at the end of the game. It was just weird.

[C]

It's just like, you know, especially who it was.

[B]

Raymond's like getting, you know, beat. It was just to see guys like the Brinket and, and Raymond and Brat.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the stars of the team like fighting each other. Larkins there was.

[C]

It was pretty od.

[B]

But.

[C]

But the joy and Don's voice because it was an old time hockey moment. Line brawl, end of a game of a feisty finish. And then of course you have Dano who probably was just climbing out of the booth.

[B]

Yeah. As he's talking, just swing back and forth. So we reenacted it in the post game a little bit later on.

[C]

That's great.

[B]

But quickly, since we're on the subject of the Devils. I spent a really cool afternoon today. One of my players on my fall baseball team, that was Marco's team that I managed, has overcome cancer and he is going to be part of the hockey fights cancer game that the Devils play against the Philadelphia Flyers on Saturday.

[C]

That's great.

[B]

So they had him go to the facility today, had him sign a one day contract with Martin Brodeur, had to talk to the players. Sheldon Keefe addressed him, gave him a jersey. Got to talk to all of the player. All the players get. Hockey players are great and he got to skate with them in practice and score some goals and because he. He's a hockey player too. So want to shout out the Devils for doing that. That was pretty awesome. Pretty amazing. He's only 7 years old and he's. He's gone through a lot but he's. Wow, he's doing well. So I was invited there because I had a chance to coach him and his dad, his dad Dan is His mom Jean were there his two sisters and was. It was quite the day. So good job out of the Devils doing that hockey fight. Scans are coming up on Saturday when they take on the Philadelphia Flyers.

[C]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. We do have.

[D]

You want to hear it?

[C]

Yeah, let's.

[D]

Here's the full call. This is final call and the fight.

[F]

Big face off. An exciting one down.

[D]

They win.

[F]

Oh, a huge one timer by Raymond. And a save by Marcher. Raymond gets it back. Can't get it through to break it with a shot blocked in front. Point seven.

[B]

It's over.

[F]

The Devils.

[B]

Hold on.

[F]

Put a pitchfork in this one. Van Rimste trying to go after a Devil in front of the net. No, that's Larkin and Mercer. Now Van Reems, Dyke and SEO. They've been battling the whole time, but I. Wow.

[B]

Finally the Devils get to celebrate the win. Kenny's rocking back and forth. Bryce, he's banging into me up here. Kenny wanted a piece of somebody.

[F]

Oh yeah, he was gonna. Oh, right there. Good chance. Off the draw to the Brinkett. And our. Our Raymond. Excuse me. And then another chance. Look at the desperation from in front. Lawrence Sider can't get a shot. And then all you don't want broke out is. I guess both these teams realize, you know, the importance of this game. Certainly a divisional or not a divisional, but a conference opponent. And all these points matter. And the Devils found a way. But again then it got a little nasty. And we love that old school. Both. Both teams care. But like I said.

[C]

Bryce, are we missing something?

[B]

Yeah, it's all right. Ye.

[C]

Well, we're missing the part where all of a sudden there's fights breaking out over the.

[B]

I was right after clock zero.

[C]

Like you got to hear him. Like he's just.

[D]

And he went right into the zone.

[C]

So in the zone I'm going to find. But it was a fun call. Fun.

[B]

So it was cool. But there's. There's a couple of jumping off points for the show today. We've got the finalists or that could be considered for the hall of Fame. That'll be determined just before the super bowl coming up. And of course, Eli Manning, his second kick at the can. But the thing that's really got people talking in New York today is actually a conversation that Hal Steinbrenner had with the media yesterday, which we talked about a little bit. It was more focused on the Mets because they made the trade with Nimmo and the conversations that David Stern had with. Stern's had with the media. But this is the quote that's got people going crazy in New York today from Hal Steinbrenner yesterday when he was asked by John Heyman if he makes a profit with the Yankees. I'm assuming you make a profit. Is that fair as well?

[G]

No, it's not fair, actually.

[B]

You take a loss.

[G]

Don't want to get into it. But that's not a fair statement or an accurate statement. Everybody wants to talk about revenues. They need to talk about our expenses, including the $100 million expense to the city of New York that we have to pay every February 1, including the COVID year. So it all starts to add up in a hurry. Nobody spends more money, I don't believe on player development, scouting, performance, science. So these all start to add up, John. And if you want to go look at the revenues, you got to somehow try to figure out the expense side as well. You might be surprised.

[B]

Now, I don't want to speak for our audience, but our audience is New York. And in listening to other shows today, that was not taken well by the Yankee fans.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Because they believe that the Yankees have the ability to spend more money. And it looks foolish that Hal Steinbrenner is now crying poverty when he's got a franchise that's worth north of $10 billion. The Los Angeles Lakers sold for 10 billion. So I would think if the Yankees sold, they probably would go for anywhere between 12 and 15 billion dollars. And that Hal Steinbrenner prints money. And how dare he talk about there being a budget. How dare he talk about the possibility of losing money. But whether he loses money or not is something we'll never be able to determine. They don't open the books. But when a fan complains about something like that, to me, it comes across as well. Winning is supposed to be the most important thing in the world. He should be. He should lose money to win. George would lose money to win. So why, why Obviously profit's more important than winning. Well, I would say this. If profit was more important than winning, wouldn't he sell the team if he didn't care about winning, wouldn't he take his $15 billion and go home, sell him more.

[C]

Sell, sell him his. Sell more steak so that he would not be a majority owner anymore. Like. But this is a, this is a legacy. Not, you know, we use mom and pop because it's the best way to describe it. Obviously it's not because it's a multi billion dollar industry and it is the biggest brand in North American sports. There's, there's no arguing it's the biggest brand in North American sports, the most recognizable brand internationally that you'll see in sports. So this is a brand that is, goes beyond corporately owned and all that stuff. But I don't understand what people don't understand. He said, would it be ideal? Yes. Will it happen? No. Doesn't that right There, just isolate that alone. Because he knows we want to field a team that we know can win a championship or believe can win a championship. So he knows I have to keep doing this. So when fans, anybody that's criticizing him about how much he spends just because he says, would it be ideal to lower it? Of course it would. Will we? No, we will not. What. What else is there to say? Where's the criticism? He just told you it would be the right thing to do. But we're not doing it because they.

[B]

Don'T have the highest payroll. They have third highest payroll.

[C]

Oh, I'm sorry. Top three is still pretty damn good.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Should be good enough to win a champion.

[B]

And I completely agree with that.

[C]

So I don't understand the criticism it makes.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

You're criticizing the wrong person.

[B]

But he's getting it because the fans feel like he doesn't want to win. Like George. George would have lost money.

[C]

George spends more than George ever did.

[B]

Because here's the. I feel like I've got to educate people on George Steinbrenner. Because the people that say, what would George do? Are people that weren't old enough to remember George.

[C]

Yeah, they're remembering.

[B]

George wanted to win, as Hal wants to win. But George lived in an era where in order to make money, you had to win because you were not going to fill the building unless you won. You weren't going to get the ratings unless you won. You weren't going to be able to charge 13 bucks for a beer unless you won. Yep. So he tried to win, but he wanted to turn a profit. Would he be willing to lose hundreds of millions of dollars to win a championship? The fans seem to think so, but I look back and he's threatening to move to New Jersey because nobody was coming to Yankee Stadium. He was trying to win because at that time it wasn't just good enough to be the Yankees and just print money, because a lot of people didn't go to the ballpark back then when they were losing and the Mets were dominating New York because they were winning a World Series and the Yankees weren't. The Mets were drawing more, the Mets were making more. And he want. He didn't want that to happen anymore. But it all came because he wanted to win, because winning was going to make him money. So I think he still wanted to turn a profit. What businessman wouldn't want to turn a profit?

[D]

Right.

[B]

I mean, you want to do everything you can to win, but you also want to make money. And also Hal and his family own 55%. So you've got 45% of the franchise that like, hey, I wanted to return to my investment. I'd love the ring too, but I also want to make sure I get a return on my investment. Do you think those that 45% of the shareholders want to lose money en route to a championship or would they be happy to be competitive and still make money in their pocket?

[C]

Especially if you're not winning championships. So each year my investment is not turning a profit, Right. And I'm also not getting the benefit of, well, but we're winning. We have championships, we have the prestige of that. I do think you're going to get that pressure from those people, but pressure from the fans.

[B]

But you know what the money gives you?

[C]

Who are you to tell him? He spends, he spends among the most of any owner in the sport.

[B]

And the two teams that spend more, the Dodgers, who've got a bunch of billionaire owners, right? And then you've got the Mets, who are owned by Cohen, who's sitting on $16 billion of hedge fund money that he can dip into. Rumors are that since he's owned the Mets, he's lost more than $200 million. First of all, $200 million to him is nothing, which is crazy, right? It's mad money to him. And he can dip into his wealth because it's a toy, right? To Steve Cohen, the Mets are a.

[C]

Toy, not a business.

[B]

To the Yankees, it's their business. It's who they are. It's how they make money. That's why mom and Pop, even though it sounds silly, is what it is. Cuz that's how they make their money. He's not sitting on $16 billion of hedge fund money that he can dip into anytime he wants. And yet still the Yankees win every year, they're competitive every year they put the best product they can on the field. You want to complain, complain about the fact that the money isn't being spent well.

[D]

Well, you just don't like the way they do things.

[B]

Well, yeah, that's not about the dollar spent. But don't go after Hal. It's got the third highest payroll. And if you're telling me, well then it's got to be win, then what are you saying, Yankee fans? You want to buy a championship or we don't have this conversation in any other sport? When we kill the Mets and Yankee, when we kill the jets and Giants.

[C]

It'S not about money, but they have a cap.

[B]

It's about their incompetence yes. When we complain about the Knicks or the Rangers or we complain they have a cap about anybody else, it's because they're not doing the job because they've got a cap. Baseball, because there's no cap is the only sport we're talking about. Go on, spend more money. $319 million should be more than enough to win. So the complaints really should be about how they're spending the money, not how saying that he's cheap or he doesn't care about winning.

[C]

And you know what bothered me though, Donnie, is that anytime we talk about the dynasty era of the late 90s, the criticism that is in return of those teams was, well, you just outspent everybody. You just bought those championships. It's so easy when you can do that and you can take from poor teams like the Royals and other teams that didn't want to spend and you take their players and you win championships because you have this loaded roster. So it cheapens what was a great run, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So now you're telling me that you want to go back to that and so that could be used against you. How about just having competent leadership that can build a championship quality roster that has a combination of high price free agents that are superstars because stars, you need stars in New York, you can't win without them. But then also what we loved about the 90s teams was what homegrown developed talent that became stars.

[B]

I'm not telling you not to be critical, but going on the wrong guy.

[C]

You'Re getting mad at.

[B]

There's a lot of reasons the Yankees don't win. And Hal is definitely among the lower reasons why they don't win. There's also a lot of reasons why people buy a Ramsey Mazda. It's the selection, it's their customer service, it's their savings Goat during the more to move you event. Lisa New 2025 Mazda CX 32.5s all wheel drive for 159 for 36 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda dot com. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Bin SM 834-925 MSRP $27,055 0 security deposit ends 121 25. Watching a master at work.

[C]

That's right.

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[C]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[D]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[C]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

All right, let's get the calls in at 1-800-if-you guys knew the things that get discussed, I will stand by. I'm going to find out conversations. I'm gonna bring that analogy back later and it's gonna be on you to fight through it.

[D]

No, it's, it's, it's not a winning effort.

[B]

1-800-919-3776. Let's start it off with Brian and Sleepy Hollow. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Brian?

[E]

Hey, guys. I just wanted to say before I get a little spicy, that I love all three of you. Happy Thanksgiving.

[D]

Oh, thanks, buddy.

[C]

I just.

[B]

Sorry.

[E]

Like, I. I'm not into Hal Steinbrenner. He's continuously goes with Cashmen, who is just. He just doesn't do enough to put you over the top.

[C]

I.

[E]

He spends money, don't get me wrong, but I think there's just this culture of complacency with the Yankees that he. Oh, just if we just get. Oh, if we sign Belly again. Oh, if we get. Just maybe do the couple of things more that might put you over the top.

[C]

But I get what you're saying, all right? Everything you're saying, you're making clear. But what you're saying, though, to me doesn't, actually, that doesn't. It's not based in reality. It's based on perception. Because what he. If you listen to everything he talked about, one of the things was about how we had to be a better at baserunning team. We had to be a smarter team. We had to be this and we had to be that. What he's talking about are things that you don't pay for. Those are things that you. It's better coaching. It's better infrastructure. It's all the things that he doesn't have to pay for. You're going to tell me the Yankees didn't have enough talent to win a championship? Or were they just. Again, they did not play good baseball when they needed to? They got, they got hurt in the pitching. No, but. I know, but you're. I just feel like sometimes. No, no, you're. You want to have a super. You want an all star at every position. All right? That's what you want.

[E]

That's not true.

[B]

But.

[C]

What's not true? What else is an owner supposed to do when he has a top three payroll?

[E]

I just, I really didn't like that political answer that he made. Oh, look at my book.

[B]

You just said that Hal Steinbrenner is a billionaire. Why is he a billionaire?

[E]

Because of the Yankees?

[B]

Because he owns the Yankees. And the only way he can get those billions of dollars is if he sells the Yankees. Yankees don't make a billion dollars a year.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

All right.

[E]

I'm not saying I'm against that. I mean, if you don't got the juice to do what it's got to do.

[B]

They got the third highest payroll in baseball. You've got the second highest. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You've got the Second highest payroll in the Mets. And according to reports, Cohen's lost $200 million since he's owned the Mets. So he's dipping into his own profits to come up with that $350 million payroll. The Dodgers have a couple of different billionaire owners. So you want him to lose money to put it back into the payroll. So you want him to make sack. He's got shareholders. Wait a minute, Brian. But why does he have to sell the team? He's got the third highest payroll. Brian, you're mad he doesn't have the highest payroll, Right?

[E]

He believes in Brian Cashman.

[B]

You're arguing two different things. I agree with you. If you want to criticize him for hiring Brian Cashman, that you do, that's a good conversation. But for to be mad that he won't lose money or make less money in order to be able to win for you when he's competing with teams that are dipping into other funds. Now, again, nobody is going to have a telethon for Hal Steinbrenner. But what Hal Steinbrenner is trying to tell you is I'm worth $15 billion because if I sell the team, that's what I would make. But I'm not selling the team. I'm owning the team. All right? I made $750 million last year, but 319 of it went to payroll. Plus I got to pay the city. I've got taxes to pay. I've got employees to pay. Now, he still turns a profit, but that he doesn't turn 750 minus 319 profit, whatever that is. He's not making $400 million because there's other money he's got to pay.

[C]

So whatever he's operating expenses.

[B]

And then he's got shareholders that he's got to be able to share that money with.

[C]

Right?

[B]

All right, and now he may turn a profit of. Let's just say Hal Steiner Mariner made $100 million last year just arbitrarily.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

The fans are mad that he's not going to sit there and go, all right, you know what? Instead I'm going to make $50 million and put another 50 into the team.

[C]

What's the 50?

[B]

Firing the general manager and find somebody.

[F]

That'S better at his job.

[B]

How about that?

[C]

What's the 50?

[B]

Be mad at that. Right?

[C]

As it stands, the Yankees are going to right now with. Now they have more work to do. A payroll for next year of $278.1 million.

[B]

And that'll go up and of Course.

[C]

It'S going up, but that includes a projected $18.7 million in the competitive balance tax because they're $34 million over the $244 million competitive balance tax threshold. So he's paying tax right now already on next season's payroll.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And they haven't finished with, well, all the needs that they have to now fill, whether it's resigning Bellinger, whatever they're going to do, whatever else they're going to do. So once again, I want to remind everybody who's mad at what he said is to understand that he said, would it be better to have a lower payroll? Yes. Will we. No. He's telling you the obvious. Would it be better? Yes. But we're not going to do that because we are trying to win a championship. He's telling you what you want to hear. You don't like the first part of the sentence, and you don't have the patience to listen to the rest of the sentence. That's the part I don't get. And what, what the caller said when you said Don, is I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna repeat it over and over again until every one of you, it's stuck in your head. House Steinmerder's problem is not how much he spends. House Steinmerder's problem is in the man he still trusts to spend. Because I don't think the money is being spent wisely.

[D]

And by the way, Dom was being just throwing out a random number. There's no chance that in these years, I would say the Steinbrenners are coming in with $100 million after a season. I mean, I just cannot imagine they're making that kind of money right now.

[B]

I'm sure they're doing well, but I'm.

[D]

Sorry, you're just throwing out arbitrary numbers.

[B]

Well, I'm saying the reports were they made $750 million last year, but that.

[D]

Includes no operating numbers.

[B]

319 goes to payroll of the players, of players. And then you got coaches, and then you got shrouding, and then you got people in the management. You've got travel, you've got a lot of things. You got it. So I just arbitrarily said, and then the 45%, and then the 45% will want to get there.

[D]

It's hard to imagine that ends up with 100 million back those time runners.

[B]

But, but, but whatever it is, I'm.

[D]

Sure they'd be the soup kitchen.

[B]

Maybe it's 500 million. I don't know. What the problem, what it is. But the fans are mad that he's not making more of a sacrifice to win. As if the only way to win is to throw more money at the problem. Now, if you want to say, I don't want Brian Cash making the decision, now we're talking sports. All right? That's what I want to get to. That's why I want baseball to have a salary cap. Because we get back to talking sports instead of finances. Why do the jets and Giants stink? Because they're not coached well, they're not managed well. Not they won't spend money. Woody Johnson spends money. That's a gorgeous facility in New Jersey that he spent one of the best facilities in the sport. Unfortunately, he doesn't know what he's doing. So that's why the team loses. Why?

[C]

All right, why does it have to be when the team wasn't good enough to win a championship, spend more. Why can't it be. Get. Get better, be better.

[B]

And the Dodgers, it's just, oh, this.

[C]

Is as good as we can get.

[B]

Because the Dodgers have won back to back World Series with by far the highest payoff.

[C]

How long did it take them?

[B]

But the Giants won three championships.

[C]

To this point. Once the new ownership came in and they were spending money hand over fist, it took them all the way up to here. And they had to go get Ohtani, who they had to trade for and give him a massive contract, record contract. Yamamoto. They had to win that deal. They had to trade for some other players. They have put together an enormous roster, which by the way, is not great during the regular season, but when it's winning time, they.

[B]

But you know, it's interesting.

[C]

How many fans would be able to stomach that?

[B]

The Blue Jays played into the 11th inning of game seven. What's their payroll? Oh, yeah, and they beat the Yankees in the regular season how many times? And by the way, they're last division.

[C]

Last place the year before. Right.

[B]

I mean, so. But the point is, is that there are examples that it doesn't have to be the highest payroll in baseball. Let's go to Aaron in Astoria. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Aaron?

[E]

Guys, thanks for taking the call. I think you guys have jumped the gun a little bit. John Heyman's question was, do the Yankees operate at a loss? Right. I love the Yankees. I believe that it's Cashman's fault. I think the money isn't always spent well. I agree with some of the things Don was saying about the costs, where to make Money. But his answer was, no, that's incorrect.

[B]

He said, I wouldn't say that. I mean, he's playing poor.

[E]

But when he went further, Heyman said, did you. Do you operate out of profit? He said, no, I wouldn't say that. So the suggestion to me as a Yankee fan is you're lying to my face, right? Because none of you got. You guys have gone through all these different costs and whatnot. Do any of you guys think the Yankees are operating at a loss?

[B]

No, I don't think they're operating.

[C]

Okay, but how.

[E]

How much.

[C]

I want to hear him say, why does it matter to you that they operate at a loss?

[E]

No, it doesn't matter to me if they operate at a loss or if they're making money. Just don't blatantly lie to me about it. No, none of you guys. It's. It's sort of like when a player comes out and tells you some blatant lie about how he's spending his money or why he needs to play. Just don't lie to me.

[B]

What he's saying is none of your business. Yeah, that's what he was saying.

[E]

But then say that. Don't lie to us. And that. Because that's where the anger comes from.

[B]

Well, because I think if you're.

[E]

Hold on. If you're a fan and this is the number one brand in America, right, with the number one logo that has its own network that sells all this merchandise, and the guy running the business is trying to suggest that they're operating at a loss, coming after a World Series, what it makes you do is just be like, okay, he's lying to me. Well, no, and I have an issue with his. His support of a general manager who's not doing.

[B]

Yeah, again.

[E]

Maybe this guy isn't the guy who isn't making good decisions. If he can lie to me and not think that people are going to be upset about it and then make these decisions with the general manager that doesn't get us to the place, then I have to look at him.

[C]

Aaron, I'm just going to say. All I'm going to say to you that I disagree with is saying that he's lying to you. Because what he said was he wouldn't put it as they're operating at a loss when asked. But then the next question was, hang on, hang on.

[E]

Are you.

[C]

The answer was, I don't want to get into it.

[B]

Let's, let's.

[C]

And then he said, but that's not a fair statement or an accurate statement.

[B]

Well, let's play it again. I'm assuming you make a profit. Is that fair as well?

[G]

No, it's not fair, actually.

[B]

So you take a loss.

[G]

Don't want to get into it. But that's not a fair statement or an accurate statement. Everybody wants to talk about revenues, they need to talk about our expenses, including the $100 million expenses to the city of New York that we have to pay every February 1, including the COVID year. So it all starts to add up in a hurry. Nobody spends more money, I don't believe, on player development and scouting performance science. So these all start to add up, John. And if you want to go look at the revenues, you got to somehow try to figure out the expense side as well. You might be surprised the way I take that.

[B]

It's none of your business.

[C]

I don't want to get into it.

[B]

But I don't want to get into it because you can't say.

[D]

He can't say. That's not accurate. If it's accurate, that would be a tough thing to say. Like if Heyman said, I assume you make a profit.

[B]

And he specifically fair to say, do you make a profit?

[D]

And he specifically twice says that's not accurate.

[C]

Right.

[D]

Which.

[C]

Which means no.

[D]

Which means sometimes, at least no. It ha that either sometimes no or he's lying.

[B]

It's fluid. Meaning that, listen, we still have to make certain decisions to make sure we. We have a profit. Because he's not going to give you the figure. But what if the profit is, well, this year was 50 million for me in my pocket last year was 100 million. This year it might only be 25.

[D]

That's always making a profit. Then it's. But so he shouldn't say.

[B]

But now we get into the debate how much of that should now go back into the team. Now we're, now we're negotiating how much Hal Steinbrenner is allowed to make. What about what I think that's the issue, right.

[C]

What he brought up don't was the 100 million I have to give the city every year, which might not count against the ledger. So it could show the profit off the business. But what doesn't show is this expense of 100 million that I have to give. That never shows because that's a completely different category.

[B]

And also he has to put money into his payroll not knowing exactly how much profit there will be in 2026. So that's why I think he's saying it's no, it's not fair because this year, yes, I made a profit. But I don't know if I'm gonna make a profit next year.

[D]

But if every year he's made a profit, it's still fair to say that he makes a profit.

[B]

Right now we're getting into the semantics, but I think ultimately it is fans want to negotiate how much money Hal Steinbrenner is allowed to make.

[D]

Well, by the way, it's not just.

[B]

Hal and I can understand.

[D]

They know that there are other kids even if they don't run the team. Everyone's got to make money.

[B]

And also, if you could, you would have a complaint if The Yankees were 25th in Paris, they're third. And oh, by the way, every year they finish above.500. Every year they're in contention and every year they're one of the favorites to win the World Series.

[C]

Based on that. Based on that, Don, I have a theory of why fans are feeling the.

[B]

Way they talk to us, and we'll do that when we get back.

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[C]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[D]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[C]

Catch the show show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

I like Cindy.

[C]

I thought this was. This was a sneaky good song by her.

[B]

I think she's sneaky good like her voice is unreal voices. Yeah, she's big hockey fan. She's always at the Ranger games with her family. Got. We used to have a little bit more freedom during the playoffs, where I'd be the third announcer and Kenny and Dave would be calling the game, and I'd be like, roaming and looking to interview celebrities coming out of the break.

[C]

That's the best.

[B]

And then eventually somebody's like, yeah, just stick to hockey. But for one year, it was actually pretty cool. And they're playing the Capitals and Cyndi Lauper's there. So I talked to her coming out of break, and there was some sort of like.

[C]

And that voice of hers when she talks. Oh, my God. Oh, it's cartoonish. It's great.

[B]

So the break before the Capitals take the lead, I mean, the Rangers take the lead. And Bruce Bujo was kind of going at it with. I think it was Tom Rainey was the coach at the time, and he's like, did you see that goal? Put that. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Bruce Boudreau.

[C]

It was. It was so voice. Do we have her talking? Because it's just so New York. You ever knew a girl from Queens and 90s? That's what she sounded like.

[B]

So, so great. So it was always. It was always funny. But we're talking about. Listen, just to get. Make it clear. Go ahead. The Yankees need to do a better job spending their money because the reason they have a $319 million payroll is because they're still paying Hicks, they're still paying LeMayhue. All right? So they just have to do a better job with the money. The idea that Hal is stashing cash in his mattress and doesn't care about winning. And all I. Listen, you want to get on Cashmere? You want to get on Hal for having Cashmere, have a job for life. That's all fair game to me. But complaining about not spending money to me, I think is completely honest, and.

[C]

That'S what I was going to say. So what I believe, just from hearing what fans are saying, is I can understand the frustration. What you're saying really isn't that your issues with Hal when it comes to money is you don't like the way he runs his business. He spends enough. The problem is, of course, the guy making the decisions, everybody, consistently. So far. We have a lot more calls to get to, and we will. But what I. What I'm surmising from this so far, Don, is there is this hopelessness now of the only way this franchise will ever move on from Brian Cashman and you'll get a fresh voice, fresh face, fresh. Just ideas at the in the general manager's office is if Hal Starmeter sold the team.

[B]

Yes, I agree.

[C]

That's what it's. So sell the team then. So sell the team then. This team every year is among the best teams in the league every year and hasn't had a losing record in 30 plus years. So you can't tell me you're frustrated with the product because it doesn't win. What you're frustrated with is that you don't feel like the guy who is in charge of baseball operations is good enough at his job to build a championship team without overspending.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's what you're telling me. So I understand that part. But he's not selling the team. What he needs to do is realize that maybe he needs to make a change there because his money is not being spent wisely.

[B]

And we got a tweet from B. Dilly says the Jays had the fifth highest payroll last year in Major League Baseball. And he's true. It's right. 230. A little over 239 million. The Yankees were at 299. So it's still significantly higher. And again, I guess I don't know where they come because you saw, you see some reports that the Dodgers were like over 400 million. Like this one I'm looking at here from USA Today as the Mets at one and the Dodgers at two.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like I don't know what to believe half the time. Well, the bottom line is when you're so you're 30, 40 million higher than your competitor.

[C]

But if you're, if you're telling me a top five payroll is good enough to win a championship or at least be in the running for it because you were last year and they were this year. So it's good enough to be there. It's once again, it's the execution. It's not about how much you spend.

[B]

Yeah. And then you know, there's another one here that's got the Yankees at 304 and Toronto at 255. So you're still talking about having maybe $50 million higher than your competitor and they still won the division. Yeah. That. You're right. So. And that's a pretty significant player. But you know what? People have their opinions. They're like foreheads. Everyone has one. 1-800-919-3776. Gilbert in Brooklyn, you're on ESPN News. There's a spicier I was waiting for that. What's up, Gilbert?

[E]

Guys? Hon, why you getting all flustered for, man? These are people that go to a place on Christmas. And Peter can tell you and, and the kid will say, can I get this extra toy? No, we don't have a budget for that. Or the wife will say, honey, can I get this? Oh, honey, do you really need that? Let's take care of that after Christmas, you know what I'm saying? We got a shame down in the hood Stop your blood clot crying when it's not your money. Guys, let's get back on sports, man.

[B]

And that's why I hear you. And that's why.

[E]

Come on, man, I signed up to hear your sports, to hear your commentary, not give me financial, you know, peace and whatnot.

[B]

I hear you, but all I ever.

[E]

Don't even know how to control their own finances.

[B]

It's fantasy. But because baseball is the one sport where we hear they gotta spend more money. Free up this 3 up. It's sickening after a while. Okay? I don't know why they're. How do you sit there as Major League Baseball and not have a salary cap? When you see the NFL, the NBA and the NHL thriving, you still have Mahomes making north of $50 million a year. You still have LeBron James making north of 50, $60 million a year. The superstars are making money.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

The middle class is lost out. But these, these franchises that are stealing money in revenue sharing would have a floor. So let's say the salary cap was 300 million. They might have to spend up 350 million. So those, you know, those little reindeer games, if I have a $60 million payroll, you know, now you're going to have to go spend some money. And that goes into the players pockets, right? That means I can sign as a free agent with Tampa or I can sign as a free agent with.

[C]

And the bad franchises would actually have better players because some guys wouldn't want to. Would take the bigger money to go to a worse team and maybe make that team better.

[B]

I'm telling you, you hear Hal speak when he is going to convince the owners for a salary cap. He didn't want it before, he wants it now. And the players aren't going to give in to it now because these organizations still make money. They won't lock the players out because they still want to be able to generate the income. But come off season next year, this time next year, we're going to be having conversations not about Thanksgiving, but is there going to be a 20, 26, a 27 baseball season. That's what we're going to be talking about and we've seen it. And how far are the owners going to go to get a salary cap? And I'm telling you it sounds unconstitutional. The other sports do it and they thrive. They thrive. And some baseball teams thrived and some are just suckling at the teat of the big market teams.

[C]

They are.

[B]

They are. They're funneling players to the big market teams. They're stealing the revenue and instead of putting it back at the team, they're put in their pocket. Right. It's a big scam. It's a pyramid scheme that's going on in Major League Baseball.

[D]

Really is.

[C]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[F]

I don't want to know how the.

[C]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.