Hour 1: Jeff Passan joins the show

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: Jeff Passan Joins the Show

Release Date: May 9, 2025

Hosts:

• Don La Greca – ESPN New York and New Jersey legend
• Alan Hahn – Long-time sportswriter and New York Knicks broadcaster
• Peter Rosenberg – Opinionated Hip Hop veteran and WWE personality

Guest:

• Jeff Passan – Renowned baseball reporter

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1. Welcoming Jeff Passan [00:45 – 06:42]

The episode kicks off with Don Hahn and Peter Rosenberg warmly welcoming Jeff Passan to the show. Peter shares a behind-the-scenes story about convincing Jeff to join the podcast, highlighting Jeff’s reputation and eagerness to participate.

Notable Quote:

Peter Rosenberg [01:28]: "Jeff would come on. And what happened was somebody heard it got back to Jeff. And you know what Jeff said? Tell those guys 3 o' clock Friday. And I said, yeah, because that's why he's Jeff Passan."

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2. Yankees’ Performance and Key Players [06:42 – 08:56]

The discussion shifts to Major League Baseball, with Jeff Passan providing insights into the New York Yankees' current season. He emphasizes Aaron Judge's outstanding performance and highlights other key players like Paul Goldschmidt, Trent Grisham, and Anthony Volpe.

Notable Quote:

Don Hahn [07:19]: "Judge, just the strength of that man to carry this team and to make the Yankees not look just like contenders in the American League, but arguably the best team."

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3. Impact of Max Fried Acquisition [08:56 – 11:16]

Jeff delves into the Yankees' acquisition of Max Fried, assessing its impact compared to other offseason moves. Don Hahn praises Fried's performance, suggesting he could be the MVP of the Yankees despite the high investment.

Notable Quote:

Don Hahn [09:41]: "Max Freed might be the MVP of the Yankees."

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4. Devin Williams' Struggles in New York [13:10 – 16:30]

The conversation turns to Devin Williams, a prominent Yankees reliever facing challenges since joining the team. Don Hahn expresses surprise at Williams' struggles, attributing it partly to the high-pressure environment in New York.

Notable Quote:

Don Hahn [14:25]: "Devin Williams has been one of the best relievers in baseball... to see him doing this and to see it just compound and for him to lose his job has surprised me."

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5. Juan Soto’s Performance and Contract Motivation [27:08 – 31:50]

Don Hahn presents a theory linking Juan Soto's recent slump to his contract motivations, suggesting that his focus on financial security might be impacting his on-field performance. The hosts debate this notion, with Jeff Passan defending Soto’s work ethic and dismissing the idea that his contract is causing a decline.

Notable Quote:

Don Hahn [30:18]: "If you're all about the last dollar that your best season in your career is going to be the one prior to free agency."

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6. Knicks vs. Celtics Playoff Series Analysis [37:04 – 49:49]

The hosts transition to NBA basketball, analyzing the ongoing playoff series between the New York Knicks and the Boston Celtics. They discuss strategic adjustments, player performances, and the high-stakes atmosphere at Madison Square Garden.

Notable Quotes:

Don Hahn [37:38]: "I'm a Mets fan. I just want New York to do well. I'm trying to make friends, not enemies."

Jeff Passan [44:26]: "The Knicks would take advantage of what is being given to them. They aren't wasting them. That's a good thing."

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7. Closing Remarks and Future Outlook [49:49 – End]

As the episode winds down, the hosts touch on upcoming games and events, emphasizing the importance of defense in championship runs and teasing future discussions. They also mention their live coverage at Madison Square Garden for the Subway Series matchup.

Notable Quote:

Peter Rosenberg [49:49]: "Defense wins Championships everybody."

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Key Insights:

• Aaron Judge's Dominance: Judge continues to elevate the Yankees, potentially making him the MVP of the team.
• Max Fried’s Value: Despite a hefty contract, Fried's performance has been stellar, stabilizing the Yankees' rotation.
• Devin Williams’ Adjustment Period: Williams faces challenges adapting to the high-pressure New York environment, raising questions about player transitions.
• Juan Soto’s Slump Debunked: The theory linking Soto’s performance decline to his contract motivation is contested, with emphasis on his consistent work ethic.
• Knicks’ Strategic Play: The Knicks' ability to capitalize on opportunities is highlighted as a key factor in their playoff success against the Celtics.
• Upcoming Playoff Dynamics: The hosts anticipate exciting developments in the Knicks vs. Celtics series, underscoring the intensity of playoff basketball.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg, hosts and guest Jeff Passan provide in-depth analysis of both Major League Baseball and NBA basketball, offering listeners a blend of statistical insights and passionate commentary. From the Yankees' promising season and key player performances to the high-stakes Knicks vs. Celtics playoff series, the discussion is both comprehensive and engaging, making it a must-listen for sports enthusiasts.

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For those interested in more detailed discussions and future episodes, subscribe to Don, Hahn & Rosenberg wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Peter. Thank you, Alan. I hope you make the team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Rosenberg, Richard, have you ever heard of Brazzers?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is in North Dakota. This is New York.

[Jeff Passan]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg on 880 ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're Glock of big city. Don Hahn and Rosenberg on a rainy Friday. But it's hard to dep any Knick fans as they get ready for a colossally big Game three at the Garden tomorrow afternoon. We'll be all over it. Our coverage begins at 2:30 right here on 880 ESPN. We're going to talk a lot of Knicks boys, for sure. How's everybody doing? All right.

[Jeff Passan]

That might have been the best open we've had so far when it comes to drops. Yes. No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You think so? You think number one.

[Jeff Passan]

That was. Those were really good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Stellar.

[Jeff Passan]

That was a hat trick, Della.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I gotta tell a quick story. The other day we were talking about guests and I said, you know, Jeff Passon's been amazing on social media and talking up everything that's going on in Major League Baseball. And I wonder if we could ever have him on. Because Michael hoarded all of our regulars in this time slot when it was the Michael K Show like currency. He was gathering these guys up. And I. And I outwardly accused Michael of maybe a conversation was had between Kay and Jeff to say, listen, if anybody calls you, especially the afternoon show, you say, no, you're my guy. And what did I say, Don? And the great Peter Rosenberg said, no, Jeff would not do that. Jeff would come on. And what happened was somebody heard it got back to Jeff. And you know what Jeff said? Tell those guys 3 o' clock Friday. And I said, yeah, because that's why he's Jeff Passon. And he opens the show right here on Don Holland Rosenberg because he's a man. What's up, Jeff?

[Don Hahn]

I mean, I appreciate you saying all the nice things, Don. Very kind of you and. And very thoughtful. It just feels a little disingenuous. Not gonna lie. You do you think so? Little of me that you think, oh, it sure seems like it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I'm not, I wouldn't.

[Don Hahn]

In what, in what way have I ever indicated to you that I would turn my back on people who have been good to me throughout my career who have helped me get to the place where I am right now? My issue with the suggestion is that you think that I bought into the name of the show. It was never the Michael K show.

[Jeff Passan]

That's right.

[Don Hahn]

It was Michael, Don and Peter and one person just happens to have a little bit more public gravitas or wanted his name on the show. I've never asked. I don't care, it doesn't matter. Etc.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can ask me.

[Don Hahn]

I am not a, I am not a star effort. I am not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or a jock sniff or any of that. I know, gentlemen.

[Jeff Passan]

No, none of that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, listen, I was, it was a challenge because I listen, Peter will tell you at the end of the Michael K Show me, God, text me and.

[Don Hahn]

Say where you come on the show. I mean, I appreciate that content, but come on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, all I know is, is that down the end of the run of the Michael K Show, right, Peter? Every time we'd have somebody on that was a regular Mike Lupic, Dan Orlovsky. Are you going to come on with me? Right. He's like, of course. Well, I love Don and Peter but Jeff never said that. But Jeff never said that. And that's why I sensitive to, I'll be honest with you, it's not about you. I'm just a little sensitive because I've lost a lot of face offs with Michael K during the year. As a matter of fact, they moved me to wing because I just, I couldn't, I couldn't win any face offs against the guy. But you know what? You showed me something. I'll never challenge you again. I consider you a friend and you don't even have to like me. I, I still consider you a friend.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I appreciate that and I do like you, Don. So it goes both ways. But, but just know like loyalty matters to me, man. Like I people, people who do good things for me, if ever I am seemingly ungrateful to them, it is purely accidental and oversight. And I, by the way, I just, this comes like I just want to talk ball and if I can talk ball on afternoon drive in New York, my life's great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, guys, this comes on a week when you could change this man's name to Hollywood passing. I mean when this guy shows up to Monday night raw, not only did they Give him the front row seats. They give him the full celebrity treatment. It's Jeff passing. I mean, this is Hollywood passing. This is a big deal.

[Don Hahn]

That was, that was, that was undeserved. I'm just going to come out and say that it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it was awesome. It was awesome.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I felt like, here's the thing. I felt like in order to make up for the fact that probably 90% of the audience watching was looking at the TV screen and going, oh. Like I had to do something memorable necessarily, but representative of being there. And so I was with my 13 year old son and they came up to me like during a commercial break. They're like, hey, we're going to, we're going to spotlight you. Do you want that? And I don't know. I didn't, but I felt like I couldn't say no. You know, it was like a chance for my kid to be on tv, which is super cool for him. And so I turned to him, I'm.

[Jeff Passan]

Like, what do I do?

[Don Hahn]

What do I do? And he goes to me, he's like, acknowledge your tribal chief. And I was like, hell yeah, that is a great idea. So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you put the fingers up. You put the fingers up. It was beautiful. I popped Jeff. I was at home.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, my God.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's you, Jeff. Welcome to the new afternoon drive show. Don Hahn and Rosenberg. I'm sure you're very familiar with Alan Hahn. He's a big Yankee fan, you know, met fan. Peter can be bought. And so you know the lay of the land here. So, so welcome, Jeff.

[Don Hahn]

It's great to be with you guys and I'm just glad I'm coming in on the same day that you had arguably your best first, like, segment of the show so far. Or at least best for dropped.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Great intro. A great intro. How about this, Jeff? Pretend. Let's start off like this. Pretend I'm a sports broadcaster in the New York area and I've been completely engulfed in the NBA for the last week and have no idea what's been going on. Just pretend. What's the biggest story coming out of the Bronx right now in your, in your humble opinion there, Jeff Bassin?

[Don Hahn]

I mean, I feel like it's always, you know, we get caught up in the minutia and we get caught up in the day to day, which I try not to do over 162 games just because I understand like the rhythms of a baseball season. How good or how bad a team looks at a particular point is not necessarily representative of who that team is. So I'm just going to go more with like Aaron Judge is, is a God among men. And I understand he's just at 400 right now and like the middle of May, but, you know, after he was at 430 last week, it looks a little different just how much better Aaron Judge is than everyone else and how even though Paul Goldschmidt is having a good year and Trent Grisham is having a surprisingly excellent year and Anthony Volpe probably is going to always be a little bit underappreciated by F because when it's not good, it looks really bad. But Judge, just the strength of that man to carry this team and to make the Yankees not look just like contenders in the American League, but arguably the best team. Despite not having Garrett Cole, despite not having starting pitching that beyond Max Freed has been particularly good this year. The Yankees are still a dangerous team. And all it takes is, all it takes is getting hot in one series to win a championship. Because we saw the way that they ran roughshod through the American League in the postseason last year. I think this team is perfectly capable of doing that still.

[Jeff Passan]

Jeff, as the new guy in this relationship, by the way, hi. Second of all, to follow up on that, you know, we always love to you get, I think we're deep enough into the season now. Where you start to reflect on the off season moves that everybody made is Max Freed. Like, where would you rank the Max Freed acquisition by the Yankees as far as order of like, impactful when it comes? I mean, obviously Soto is the biggest, probably the biggest name and the biggest number when it comes to off season. But where would Max Freed fall among all the moves made in the off season, whether it was a trade or whether it was a signing by Impactful? Because as you mentioned, it's almost like he's been a godsend considering the Cole injury.

[Don Hahn]

When Max freed signed for eight years and $218 million, my first thought was, oh my God, like, I thought he was going to get 160, 170, you know, in that kind of Justin Berlander, Felix Hernandez vicinity. But that eighth year and especially the 218, it was like, okay, well, this is the Yankees taking their Soto money and maybe overpaying guys a little bit just to ensure that they get this does not look like an overpay. If anything, it looks like an underpay. And I know we're only eight starts into Max Freed Yankees career, but. But Max Freed's reputation has not been. It's always like really Good teammate, really smart guy. Might be a little bit soft. And to come into New York and absolutely dominate the way that he has, and to do so with efficiency and with intelligence and with pitch ability, more than just raw, pure stuff, you know, I'm not discounting. The guy throws, you know, 95 on average for his fastball. So it's not like he has mediocre stuff by any means. But it's not the 98, 99, 100 that you're seeing from. From Paul Skeens or Hunter Green or guys of that ilk for him to do that in the Bronx and to stabilize this rotation the way he has. Aaron Judge is the MVP of the world, right? But Max Reed might be the MVP of the Yankees.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they're also in a division that doesn't look like, at least right now, anybody's willing or ready to test them. Do you think that just stays the way it is, or do you think someone will rise and challenge this Yankee team in the East?

[Don Hahn]

You know, I can foresee Boston being in the mix there. I don't think the Blue Jays are all that good. There's talent there, but there, there's. There's just too many gaps in both the lineup and the bullpen. I think Tampa, I like a lot. They're just so inconsistent. Like, Tampa can look like a playoff team one day and the next day look like a team that's going to lose 100 games. It's maddening. And Baltimore, I worry that they just dug themselves too big a hole at this point. They're 10 games under.500. They're seven and a half back of the Yankees right now. And that's for the Yankees, you know, not playing their greatest baseball, certainly of this year. But the Orioles just have no pitching. And beyond that, the guys who were supposed to be like the foundation of that lineup, a lot of them are either not hitting or hurt right now. You know, no Jordan Westbrook, no Colton Kauser. Gunnar Henderson's been okay. Jackson Holiday has been okay. Adley Rushman's been. So you look at the landscape of the American League east right now, guys, it's not very good. I do. Once the Rafael Des mess gets worked out, and it's bound to, one way or another, I think it will probably end with him playing at first base. Once that gets worked out, if they can free up that DH spot, call up Roman Anthony, add him to a lineup that's already pretty deep and dangerous and, and maintain the health of Garrett Crochet, and get, you know, maybe a reliever or two at the trade deadline. I think the Red Sox are a potentially very dangerous team.

[Jeff Passan]

I want to go back to something you just said before when talking about Max Freed, and you said that if I. Correct me, if I'm misquoting you, but you had a soft reputation. Right. Like that's what you're saying about when coming to New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I.

[Don Hahn]

And I don't. Just to be clear, I never thought that that was particularly fair, but that, you know, sometimes reputation stick.

[Jeff Passan]

Sure. Well, this has nothing to do with Max Freed, but it has to do with another pitcher that came to New York that is appearing as such, and that's Devin Williams. Is this surprising that he has had such a. Such a struggle to start where. I'm sure you've seen these stories where the suggestion that he's in the clubhouse looking around at the amount of media, not happy with how many reporters are around before games, as if, you know, he's never been in New York before, and then complaining about the mound, the game he was brought into, which he probably shouldn't have been brought into, where it was pouring, raining, and he just absolutely imploded. Are you surprised at a guy that, you know, the air bender and all his reputation as one of the best closers, if not the best in the sport, comes here and he's having a Sonny Gray type start?

[Don Hahn]

Damn surprised. Because Devin Williams has been one of the best relievers in baseball over the course of, you know, the six years he's been in the big leagues. And I understand guys, Milwaukee and New York are different and, and especially in a job like the bullpen, where when you succeed, it's expected and when you fail, it's a story. Right. Like that. I've always found that sort of interesting.

[Jeff Passan]

We.

[Don Hahn]

We only write about closers when they lose. Right. That's sort of the way that reporters operate. And it's probably not fair to relieve pitchers that that's the case, that we take them for granted like that. But Williams performance up until this year, it was a very. Take it for granted because he's never been anything but, like, the best. I mean, coming into this season, guys, over his career, I think 250 or so games, Devin Williams had a 180 race. Like he's been that guy. And so to see him. To see him doing this and to see it just compound and for him to lose his job, it has surprised me, certainly, because the timing of it is. It just could not be worse. I mean, as he's going into his free agent season where he was destined to get an 80 plus million dollar contract at this point. You know, maybe there are teams out there that see the quality of the pitches that he's throwing and how they haven't changed all that much and just chalk it up to New York to a bad few games to, you know, things snowballing and end up giving him a pretty hefty deal just betting on him. But man, it is most inopportune for this to be happening. And look, the New York thing is real. It just is. I don't know how to quantify it. I don't know how to say this is going to be the guy who has it. But it is different playing in New.

[Jeff Passan]

York and how do their Yankees not recognize that with all the analytics they use and all the investigating they do and everything. When it comes to a player, if you're going to spend that much money or that or assets or whatever it is, shouldn't you all. And I don't want to get too crazy about this, but it does feel like, especially in this market, as you said, because I do think it is, the air's different here and that's not to be myopic about New York and how great we are, it just is that maybe you should put a little more psychological or any type of background to figure out is this guy built for this kind of a market and this kind of intensity and this kind of coverage. Kevin Brown wasn't, Sonny Gray wasn't. You know, certain guys just are great everywhere else, but not here. Why don't the Yankees do that? Like, I've always wondered that.

[Don Hahn]

I think that's a really fair question. But I'm going to, and I apologize because I don't like doing this, but I'm going to answer your question with the question, how do you know? Well, and I just, I just think it's, I think it's impossible, dude. Like, I think it's impossible to know who is going to turtle when they get to New York and who's going to peacock. Like, if you would have asked me before the season, I would have been worried that Max Freed was going to be the turtle and turns out the guy's the peacock. And maybe I should have known because Max Freed went and threw six shutout innings to close down a World Series for the Atlanta Braves. And so he has had those moments. And Devin Williams, his last moment against the New York team was giving up a three run series losing home run to Pete Alonso. But I, I don't know, man, I just can't look at that singular moment right there and say that because Devin Williams failed in the playoffs, it means he's gonna fail in New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but I will. You're right. Cause they'll probably say, hey, can you handle New York? And the answer's always gonna be yes, of course. But here's an example, Jeff, where what was just brought up about, like, he was shocked about the number of reporters in the room. Well, then, then the Yankees didn't do a good enough job preparing him. Because the first thing you have to say is, by the way, when you come here, did you see how many people were around you in the playoffs? Double that for a regular season game in New York. When you fail, they're going to be 50 people that you have no respect for that can never do what you do in a million years asking why you failed. Like, you've got to prepare them for that. Like, for. So for him to question the number of media in the locker room, that tells me they didn't prepare him for the amount of media that's going to be following this team.

[Don Hahn]

That's there no notes, 10 of 10.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So. But I understand what you're saying. But before we let you go, of course we're talking to the great Jeff Passin here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. You know, The Mets are 10 games above.500, but they're not hitting with runners in scoring position. They've got a fraction of what they believe they can get from Juan Soto. So how much better can this team actually be, even though they're off to a great start?

[Don Hahn]

Quite a bit. And that's the scary part of the match, right, that. That they're doing this not just with Juan Soto, not putting up Soto type numbers, but without Shamania and without Frankie Montas. Like, the fact that they have turned their rotation guys into what they have is pretty damn incredible. I mean, the highest era of their starters right now belongs to David Peterson. Yeah, and it's a 3 5. Kodai Senga has been brilliant, and Griffin Canning's been, you know, probably a top five surprise in all of baseball. And Tyler McGill seems like he's finally figured it out. And the bet on Clay Holmes really seems to be working. And, you know, this area that I thought was going to be a weakness for the Mets, especially in lieu of the injuries to Maniah and Montage, has turned out to be like their ultimate strength. And you know what it reminds me a lot of? Remember last year when Garrett Cole went down and Springture at the beginning of the season and the Yankees rotation looked gambolic, comparatively. And then, you know, those first six weeks, it's like they were the best pitchers in the world. That's the Mets right now. Holmes still hasn't given up a home run, saying has given up. I think one like that's the key right there. If you guys want to see the sneaky, most important statistic in baseball, and it's illustrative of where the game has gone and how dependent teams are on this, look at the number of home runs hit and the number of home runs allowed. And that will tell you not always, but most of the time that will tell you what you need to know about a team and its ability to succeed. The Mets have hit home runs and they have prevented them. And that more than anything, guys, is why they're in the position that they're in right now and why they can be in an even better position going forward.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, Jeff, it's always a pleasure. I know you got to run, you got a bunch of things to do, but let's make this a regular thing, man, because eventually, whether the Knicks bounce now or win a championship, there's going to be a lot of baseball in our future with two first place teams. So hopefully you'll have the time for us later on, man.

[Don Hahn]

Well, you got the Pope on your side, so there's that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's that too.

[Jeff Passan]

You did go to Villanova.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks a lot, Jeff, man. Have fun. Have a great weekend.

[Don Hahn]

Always a pleasure, gentlemen. Thank you for having me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, he's. He's so great and such a good spot. I can't believe you doubted him. I'm glad he called you out for it. No, I'm glad. No, listen, I. But was I. Was I wrong? I know you disagreed, but I questioned things. You're scarred and it happens. But let me ask you this. Do you think the question was asked Jeff, and he declined? I remember it was asked of him. I mean, on the air, he certainly said, you know, or. And Jeff, I remember just saying. I'm not gonna say that now. Was there a private call from Michael? No, I don't. I don't think so. Okay. But you know what? If I wanted to dig into that further, that could be more of an indictment of how Michael feels about Jeff than anything else. Well, we got him and he's so good. So we just thought that since he said he was available and I kind of called him out, that we had to put him on. But I thought it was a good point and it's a great first Question by Peter. You know, we've been so into the NFL draft and then jump right into the Knicks run that you know some really good baseball that I'm sure even baseball fans have found very little time to kind of sink their teeth into because there's so much else going on. But we've got two first place teams and even though the Knicks run isn't even close to being over here, there's still a lot of great baseball we can look forward to once we hit the summer. And it's pretty fascinating, you know, because in any normal world the landslide biggest story would be your incredible 6 foot 5 giant batting.400. But in the case of this Yankee team, I mean, listen, Richard from Manhattan, I kind of, I kind of mocked him yesterday, but Jeff's in lockstep that for this team the MVP may not be judged right now. Maybe Max Freed. So that it is pretty fascinating stuff. Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and Madewell. It's easy too, with free shipping and.

[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Jeff Passan]

See Associate for details.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Program subject to terms and conditions. Details@lowe's.com Terms subject to change thanks for.

[Jeff Passan]

Listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Jeff Passan]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Don Hahn]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don Han and Roseberg hanging with you until 6:30. Then it's Mets, Cubs. Looks like it's going to clear up, guys. I thought it was going to be just raining all day, but at least by me it's supposed to clear up and be a pretty pleasant night. So I think we should have some.

[Jeff Passan]

Baseball tell you around 11, I guess. No, like, like 10:30 this morning. It was, it was, it was like the biggest raindrops you've ever seen. Like it was pouring, getting through Brooklyn and, and out to Long Island. I mean it just incredible how much rain fell in a short amount of time, but everything's saturated. But yeah, I think we're supposed to clear up and the weekend is not going to be as bad as we thought.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, and then Sunday, supposed to be glorious. As my son would say, he's worked out into his vernacular, which is a little disturbing.

[Jeff Passan]

I like that. Oh, we are supposed to get some rain tonight, though. I'm sorry. Correction.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, what I try to tell my wife when we watch the, the weather, like just before I go to bed is that it's the general area. I mean, you know, tri state area is pretty big. I mean, with what's happening in southern Connecticut may not necessarily be the same as what's happening in central Jersey, so.

[Jeff Passan]

I see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know where it's all gonna.

[Jeff Passan]

Let me talk to the two AI, Amy Freeze and see what. AI Amy Freeze.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is there AI. Is that a thing she.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah. Did you see this whole thing that she's doing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah, no, she has, she had. There's like a created Amy Freeze. She's gotten into this technology and you guys know Amy, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sure, sure. Yeah.

[Jeff Passan]

And, and it's, it's pretty cool. Like you can just get personalized from her whether in your area. It's crazy, but this is where this is heading. One day there'll be a. AI Don Roosevelt.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, God only knows.

[Jeff Passan]

They're going to talk about your team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

For three hours and then we'll all be out of a job. And now. Yeah, no one will be getting residuals though.

[Jeff Passan]

You think Amy is like letting this be done for free? No, they're using her name, image and likeness and she's getting paid for it. Having to lift a finger.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I kind of enjoy what I do. I like that in the once I can't do it, it'll be nice to know that I can live on in another capacity. But the technology is kind of scary, you know, so the Knicks are the part of the conversation too, but. But I'm just kind of curious at 1-800-9193776. Getting a call from David in Manhattan. Got a curious topic. I was just kind of, since it was just on what we were discussing with, with Jeff. You're on ESPN New York. How are you David?

[Don Hahn]

Dhr. Great to be on the show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Cool man.

[Jeff Passan]

Good to have you, David.

[Don Hahn]

So here's my theory and just to be clear, I'm a Yankees fan, so take it with a grain of salt. But I think it's a legitimate theory why Soto is slumping. And to be clear, I also think he's going to regress a bit. Back to the mean. If you're all about the last dollar, if that's what you care most about, well then obviously your best seasons are going to come prior to your free agency. Once you get your bag of money, maybe you aren't pushing yourself quite as hard at the gym. Maybe you aren't quite so laser focused. The talent is there, the hard work is there. You're elite but you're not going to go that extra, extra mile. Just as an analogy, you know, I try to work out, I try to stay in shape. But I'll tell you what, I worked out the hardest before my wedding because I wanted to look good in the photos. After the wedding, you know, I still worked out but I slipped up a little. Slipped up a little. Contrast that with Judge. He wants to be more than anything else a great Yankee. We know he's not about the last dollar because he took less money to stay with the Yankees. He turned down 400 million from the Padres. Obviously he wanted his bag too, but he wanted to be a great Yankee more. So what are your thoughts on that being a contributing factor to Soto slump? And are you worried?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, no, because I think he signed a 15 year contract. He's got an opt out. So there's going to be obviously motivation to continue to play well. But David, I'm not going to completely shoot down your theory because I don't know, I'm not with him all the time. But neither are you. I mean you're just judging it based on he's off to a bit of a slow start. We have not seen any evidence that he's not going to batting practice, that he's been lazy, that he's just going about his business less than he did when he was a national Padre or Yankee. You're just looking at the numbers being off from what we usually see. And I think we've seen that from a lot of free agents when they land someplace, especially in New York. Mike Messina got off to a slow Start. Jason Giambi got off to a slow start, Alex Rodriguez, and then eventually these guys, they have their moment and they end up playing to the back of their baseball cards. So I'm not going to completely shoot down your theory. I just don't see any evidence other than his struggle. So I guess anything's on the table for why he's struggling. But I think we follow athletes in New York closer than we probably do any other place. If he was being lazy, not putting the effort in, I'm sure we would have heard something about that by now. Yeah, it's just a guy off to a bit of a slow start. Can we, can we see what this looks like at the end of 25? Can we see what it looks like at the beginning of 26? Maybe this is, will be an off year for him, but thank you totally. But go ahead, go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Don Hahn]

Well, yeah, well, just to be clear, I don't think he's a lazy guy. I don't think he's not working out. I just think, I think it's not a surprise if you're all about the last dollar that your best season in your career is going to be the one prior to free.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, but here's what I take exception.

[Jeff Passan]

That's human nature. That's human nature though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, but, but I'm not 100% sure Dave's going there. But the fact that you went for the last dollar, like, don't say it pejoratively like that doesn't mean that you're not going to work hard, doesn't mean that you don't care about winning. It doesn't mean you don't care about being the best you can be. He just made it clear that he was going, he wanted to get paid for his services, all right? And we saw that when he turned down the big contract from Washington because he wanted to parlay that into a bigger contract. But I don't want it to be painted that well. Judge was about wanting to be an all time great Yankee and took a little less. Well, you know, he wasn't going to take a lot less guys. He still wanted to get paid. And that's the team that drafted him and that's the team that gives him the best chance to win. Would, would Aaron Judge have taken less money and would he have been that involved in staying if he was a Kansas City Royal or Milwaukee Brewer? I mean, it helped that he was a New York Yankee. Soto was drafted by the Nationals, he became a Padre, he became a Yankee I don't think it was ever about legacy or a particular team. He wanted to get paid, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to win and it doesn't mean that he doesn't care about baseball. He prioritized his contract, but that doesn't mean that everything else doesn't matter.

[Jeff Passan]

I'm never going to put Juan Soto in the category of an Albert Haynes worth. I'm never going to put him in a category of please. Of one of these players that played for the contract and once they got it, put their feet up and stop right like and like, like. And we've seen that we know those guys like we can name them. He's not that he's too good of a, he's too big of a talent. It, it's. We are always so fixated on the, the, the immediate impact we want so bad for that instant gratification you acquire. Mikhail Bridge is a great example of it. You acquire him and it was a big deal and a blockbuster and now you got it in the first month he's got to be averaging 30 a game. And we can all say, wow, that was great. Isn't it amazing? If Soto had a April and maybe like Judge is having and then leveled off in the middle of the season and by the end of the year was sort of like pedestrian, you wouldn't notice it because you were so caught up in what a great start it was that his numbers would have always looked good, right? But because his numbers will probably look the same at the end of the year, but because it didn't start out gangbusters, it's already this. I don't know. He doesn't look the same. I don't know, it's. I thought you were getting more for your money. Like, that's just I think how people are and I also think human nature for regular people like us is to see someone make almost a billion dollar contract. And we don't like it because we, it's, it's uncomfortable. So you better be otherworldly or else I'm gonna think that you are just lazy now because you got the money. Because I think all people who get all the money, they just get lazy at that point because they have no, no motivation. These guys are not motivated by money. They're motivated by greatness and wanting to be great and want it to be better than others. And that, that's the status the greats go for. Otherwise, LeBron James, Steph Curry now, and players from the past, they would have never had Multiple championships. I need one, and I'm done. Like, they would have never been like that. They are maniacal people that regular people like us cannot relate to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. They don't turn it. The idea of turning it off is not a thing. The idea of some sort of subconscious thing, I think can be a thing. But also, I mean, maybe it's just a renowned. Different pressure this year. I mean, sometimes one thing seems easy, organic, and then a simple switch, like moving to a different borough and being in a different locker room, and things are different. I don't think it necessarily.

[Jeff Passan]

Just remember, he just. This is. This is three teams in three years now for him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right, Exactly. So he's done this. A lot of nothing happened.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So. So why this time?

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes things just are.

[Jeff Passan]

I will allow one thing, though, and it's not. It's not. Again, it's not about his character. There could be a year where you have a big contract like this. You do kind of just, maybe just stop a moment, get a. Like, just a moment, and then you realize, like, oh, crap, I got to get ready for the seat. Like, you know, like, things do happen when something monumental like this happens in your life and you take a moment to celebrate it, and then you realize that I took a little longer than I should have, and I'm not ready, and then I got to get ready. It's. It's. Those things all are natural and they happen. But I would never paint him as a guy that is satisfied now that he got paid. I don't think Juan Soto is made like that.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or. And maybe. Maybe he is. I don't. I don't think so. That's why it wasn't going to kill David. He might be right. You know, but if you start to see him gaining weight, if you start hearing reports that he's not showing up to things and not caring about things, then that could be part of the narrative.

[Jeff Passan]

Well, that's why Raphael Devers is getting killed in Boston, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jeff Passan]

Because they didn't want to pay. And then they paid him. Showed up fat, complaining about where he's going to play. They're not. They don't trust him at third. Now he's saying, I'm not playing first no matter what. Like, he's. He's not being easy to deal with. Right. Like, that's. You know, those are things that make you look at a guy and wonder, all right, you got paid and now you don't care.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, you know, but I. I think it could also be baseball's really Hard there. There are going to be seasons that aren't as great as other seasons. There's going to be starts that are slow. And this might just be a bad month for him. Maybe a bad year. Maybe we'll. We'll be. We'll fast forward. Forward to July and go, God, you remember when he was struggling back in April and May. Now look at him. That's why I didn't want to jump there. But I thought it was just interesting because we, like, even with the Knicks, stuff like, why is this happening? Maybe the Celtics are soft. Maybe. Maybe they were. Maybe they weren't real champions last year or, or, or they're this pressure or maybe they're tired or maybe they're injured. Like you're always trying to figure out theories of why. Sometimes there's a million reasons. Sometimes it's something you never find out about. Just one. One of those things, you know, and that's why you don't judge things off of two games. You don't judge things in baseball off of the first, you know, 40 games. It's a, It's a war of attrition. There's a lot. There's a lot to get into. There's a lot of difficult times ahead for, for pretty much everybody. Let's go to Moose in Jamaica. You're on espn. New York.

[Don Hahn]

What's good, Don Allen and Peter. How are we?

[Jeff Passan]

Moose back.

[Don Hahn]

Yes. Chilling. Yeah. So I have Knicks and something to talk about baseball. Both teams. A little insight on both the messenger Yankees about the Knicks. Alan, when I tell you, I said if they can eliminate Boston taking early threes, eliminate the space, force them to drive, occupy fouls, slow down the pace and, and their superstars can be superstars. And, and the reason why they got OG and Bridges was to shut down Brown and Tatum. Like, it's. Leon Rose is looking like a genius and Thibodeau is looking like a wizard. So far, so much so that the morning game one.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah. Keep. Keep that. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So much so that I'm a Mets fan. I just want New York to do well. I'm trying not. I'm trying to make friends, not enemies.

[Jeff Passan]

I hear you. I'm just. For a lot of people because I am hearing the whole, you know, Tibbs has been, you know, a wizard. Tibbs. Tibbs is out coaching Missoula and, And all that stuff. And that's. It's good to hear because you. I've been trying to convince people that, you know, this man can coach, but I do know how fickle and how Fast. This turns like, like, like Allen not.

[Don Hahn]

To cut you off. I was so convinced the Knicks had a legit chance that the playoff being a different animal, the Knicks being more healthy than Boston. I put a hundred dollars for the Knicks to win in six, and I might lose that bet with them sweeping or winning in five.

[Jeff Passan]

You might actually win that bet. Let me tell you something. I think you might win that bet, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Might win it, might lose it.

[Jeff Passan]

You might win that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I. It's funny, like, he said a lot of things or any of that really a reality, or the Celtics just not hitting their shots. Like, I think they were much better defensively in game two. But was it, was it about the defense of the Knicks in game one?

[Jeff Passan]

I think the, I think the end of games have been about the. Nick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes. Yes.

[Jeff Passan]

I think when they've had to. What is the, the line that Tibbs said is when we, when we need. When they needed their best, their, when their best was needed, they were at their best. And that's, I think, the thing that he's most proud about. So, you know, but I do see, you know, and others have said this too, I'd spend a lot of time talking with Brian Windhorse this morning about the Knicks. And it's, it's noticing that the guys that know that they're the ones that the Celtics are hunting for, you know, I love Chris Can. He always says, who's the fish? Who's the weak offensive lineman that all the defensive linemen want to have it, want to go one on one with so they can get a sack? You know, the fish, they're looking for them. And, and, you know, it's Brunson, it's. It's Towns. And those guys are aware of it. And those guys are like, I don't want to be the weak link. And they're taking it personal. That's important. Neither team has played well offensively. Neither team. So what you're waiting for in this series is which team is going to snap out of might not be either. Because if both defenses are playing as hard as they can, it's going to be a grinder. And that I think, benefits the Knicks. And so we'll see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's fascinating stuff, for sure. Tomorrow is just going to be unbelievable. Again, our coverage will begin at 2:33, 30 is the tip. And in game four, no matter what happens in game three, game four, we're going to be on 33rd by Madison Square Garden for the block party. We're looking forward to that. This episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado when it's time for you to ditch the blacktop and head off road, do it in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado Trail Boss. Get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2 inch factory lift, plus impressive torque and towing capacity thanks to an available Duramax 3 liter turbo diesel engine. Where other trucks call it quits, you'll just be getting started. Visit chevy.com to learn more. Hey there travelers. Kaley Cuoco here.

[Don Hahn]

Sorry to interrupt your music great artist BT dubs, but wouldn't you rather be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To Mint Mobile today.

[Don Hahn]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Peter Rosenberg]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for three.

[Jeff Passan]

Month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee. Full [e-mail] thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Jeff Passan]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Don Hahn]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Joining us here in New York and the Michael K Show live at Stout Bryant park ahead of the first Subway Series matchup on Friday, May 16th. Starting at 1pm Michael will look ahead to what should be one of the best crosstown rivalries in recent memory. The Michael K Show Live at Stout Bryant park on Friday, May 16 from 1 to 3pm brought to you by Sun Cruiser Vodka Ice T. Let the good times cruise Twisted Tea keep it twisted New York and Corona, the official cerveza of Major League Baseball. 1-800-919-3776 is the number to call from the Knicks perspective. I heard Dan Grasser talking about this. He was filling in for K today. Is it wrong guys to make the statement that the Celtics lost the first two games more so than the Knicks won the first two games. Is that wrong? Is that too negative or is that. No, they were up 20 in each reality.

[Jeff Passan]

Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, they were up 20. You can't. Allen, you can't say that. You could say you can't take away the Knicks stick to itiveness and the fact that they were cool in the clutch and fought and hit big shots when it mattered, but the fact is, history repeated twice. The Celtics were up 20 late. It's. You have to view it that way.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah, no, it's the only way to view it. I mean, you want to go 60, 40 on that, that's fine. You know, you can argue it that way. 60, 40. Where 60, 60 the Celtics gave away, but 40 the Knicks. Because the things that happen a lot in any sport is a team that's winning can give you the opportunity to take the game, but you still got to take it. And that's where you credit the Knicks in their ability to take advantage of what is being given to them. The Pistons did the same thing. The Pistons gave the game. They would, they would put it on the table for the Knicks to take it. The Knicks would take it gladly. So the thing you credit the Knicks for is that ability to take advantage of opportunities that are given to you. They aren't wasting them. That's a good thing. So I don't think it's being disrespectful to the Knicks to say that I think it's a real thing. But at some point, the Knicks are going to have to take a game from the start instead of waiting for the opponent to let them have it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. Because I don't think that applies to winning the series because then maybe that's just who you are. Celtics end up losing games three and four exactly the same way they lost one and two. Then I'm sorry, that's just who you are.

[Jeff Passan]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's why I think tomorrow's game is just so interesting. Because if the Celtics show up with the best of their ability, then then obviously the, the feeling should be, well, then they win. But if they don't, well, then it changes everything because then you can't really start throwing around.

[Jeff Passan]

And we know the series is like, like if the Knicks win game three, the series is over. Yeah, the series is over.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jeff Passan]

That's why I, I, A lot of people are saying, they saying this morning, whoever wins game three is going to win the series. Would you buy that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That I would, but it's not fair. It's not fair to say that if the Celtics win game three because.

[Jeff Passan]

But that's what I think though. Is it? Because. Oh, then they'll get right and then they'll just kind of win the rest of the way out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, doesn't that. Then, then don't you start to have to. Don't you have to start saying, then how did they win game? Oh, yeah, yeah. See, that's why. But they take the fun out of it. But you're right that, that's. I need to see what it looks like because I believe if the Celtics win by 30 tomorrow. Now, I don't think that's going to happen.

[Jeff Passan]

No, I don't either.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But if they were to win by 30, then I would say. You know what I think? I think the Celtics right of the ship and I think it's going to be really difficult for the Knicks now to win this series. If it ends up being a great game and the Knicks losing overtime, how can anybody say the Knicks are dead?

[Jeff Passan]

No, not at all. You can't say that. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I do think tomorrow is big in the sense of just how it could look.

[Jeff Passan]

It's monumental for everybody. I mean, Tatum's got so much pressure on him. Brunson, you know, Wendy said, you know, Brunson hasn't had a 40 point game yet. He could have it on Saturday or if he does, they're going to have the statue ready for, for game four. Like if he has a 40 point game in a game three like that. This, guys, this is the biggest game. This is the game of the century right now at Madison Square Garden.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The prices agree with you, Alan.

[Jeff Passan]

Well, you're right about that average ticket611.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Great question, because it is only round two. But this has been the bugaboo for the Knicks for 25 years.

[Jeff Passan]

But name a bigger game in this century. What, what bigger game have they played in that building?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the. For the Knicks. Yeah. I mean, they're big, big games. I mean, obviously the Rangers played a Game 7 in the conference final.

[Jeff Passan]

You know, of course I'm talking. When I say game of the same.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, no, this is the biggest game the Knicks have played in 25 years. I mean, and then I'd have to.

[Jeff Passan]

Go Back to game three of the 99. NBA Finals was the last game that would come. That feels like it has this much momentum and this much anticipation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

People that are listening right now that were not on the planet when that happened, I mean, it's incredible. It's it's, it's really just incredible how big this game is going to be. And it's going to be a lot of fun to just be in the position that they're in. Let's go to Michael and Elizabeth. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Mike?

[Don Hahn]

Hey, fellas.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's go.

[Jeff Passan]

Nick's.

[Don Hahn]

You know what I, what you guys.

[Jeff Passan]

Were talking about before the Knicks one, it's not so much, I think Boston Lawson and Knicks1. I mean, yeah. You know, Celtics don't make adjustments, jacking up all those threes, Knicks getting rebounds, pushing it up the court a bit, you know, hitting big shots. So I think the Knicks definitely, yeah, day one. I don't think it's so much more as Boston losing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When you miss 32 uncontested threes in the first game, it's hard to give the Knicks credit for that. But, but I understand, I understand what you're saying. They were in a position to win the game and they won it. But, but when you see how it went down, especially in game one, Michael, a lot of that was just the Celtics being cold.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And that happens.

[Jeff Passan]

You know, you live by that three.

[Don Hahn]

Pointer or the shooting and you can die by it.

[Jeff Passan]

So it's a double edged sword.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I, you know what? I think going into the next two games, Knicks have to get at least.

[Jeff Passan]

One of these games at home. Yes, I agree. I don't think they want to go.

[Don Hahn]

Back to Boston tied.

[Jeff Passan]

So the object is for sure to be the, the object is to win both. But you will, you will settle with like to me, your, your. The worst you should do is split, not lose both. You lose both, that really does start to flip the series. You got at least split.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the one thing we've learned in these playoffs, and Michael, thank you for the phone call, is not to say anything definitive because it's been that crazy, but I would think the Knicks are close to dead. If they lose both of these games in the Garden. That would be four straight losses at home. You just gave everything that you got back to the Celtics and now it becomes the best of three with them having all the momentum and having figured it out.

[Jeff Passan]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you never say never, but I think you would be in big time trouble if that happened. I don't see that happening.

[Jeff Passan]

No, I really don't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You never know.

[Jeff Passan]

I don't have a bad feeling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. The only bad feeling you have is they have not played great at the Garden.

[Jeff Passan]

Right. Which I think they're aware of and I'm really curious how they adjust and how they fix that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the Celtics won eight, exactly eight games on the road all regular season. So they should be comfortable in a hostile environment.

[Jeff Passan]

So they might even be more comfortable than playing at home. And you consider how that crowd was just so anxious in that game, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See, that was going to bring me to my next topic of conversation.

[Jeff Passan]

All right, let's go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And we'll dive into that next. It's Don Hahn and Rosenberg. We're hanging out with you on a Friday here on 880 ESPN New York. And the ESPN New York app defense wins Championships everybody.

[Jeff Passan]

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