Hour 1: Jets HC Search

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg - Hour 1: Jets HC Search

Introduction

In the January 15, 2025 episode of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg," ESPN New York's Don La Greca, alongside sportswriter Alan Hahn and Hip Hop veteran Peter Rosenberg, delve into the pressing issue of the New York Jets' search for a new head coach. The discussion is both passionate and insightful, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the complexities and frustrations surrounding the Jets' prolonged struggles and the quest for leadership that can turn the team's fortunes around.

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Setting the Stage: Jets' Ongoing Struggles

Don La Greca opens the conversation by highlighting the Jets' longstanding issues, stating, “The Jets have been miserable for a decade and a half with no winning season since 2015 and no playoff appearance since 2010” ([01:20]). He expresses a deep frustration with the team's inability to secure a stable and effective head coach, setting the tone for a candid and critical discussion.

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Critique of the Current Coaching Search

Dan Graziano offers a sharp critique of the Jets' current candidate pool, describing it as "uninspired" ([02:34]). He dissects the list of potential head coaches, pointing out that many lack the necessary experience or have significant flaws. Graziano remarks, “You could sit there and poke holes in each and every one of these candidates” ([04:31]). This sentiment underscores the skepticism surrounding the Jets' ability to attract top-tier coaching talent.

Alternative Candidates: Mike McCarthy and Rex Ryan

Don La Greca counters Graziano’s criticism by advocating for more prominent figures such as Mike McCarthy and Rex Ryan. He argues that despite their imperfections, these coaches bring valuable experience and a track record of success. Don emphasizes, “Mike McCarthy does have a Super Bowl ring. That’s why they should consider him” ([06:09]). He also suggests that Rex Ryan, despite his mixed history, offers more value than many current candidates due to his experience with the Jets and his ability to connect with players.

Graziano responds by recalling the Jets' past interactions with Mike McCarthy, noting, “They interviewed Mike McCarthy five years ago and weren’t impressed” ([06:16]). This highlights the challenge of convincing the Jets' management to reconsider high-profile candidates they have previously passed over.

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Experience vs. Leadership: The Core Debate

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around whether the Jets should prioritize coaching experience or leadership and cultural fit. Don asserts, “Leadership culture is the number one priority” ([35:00]), arguing that the head coach's ability to inspire and lead the team is paramount. Graziano concurs, stating, “The head coach becomes like the face of the franchise. He’s the guy that’s up there at the microphone” ([35:24]).

They debate the importance of tactical knowledge versus the ability to build a cohesive and motivated team. Don suggests that a coach who can foster a winning culture, even if relatively inexperienced, might be more beneficial in the long run than a seasoned coach who lacks the necessary leadership qualities.

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Fan Perspectives: Calls and Opinions

Listeners’ calls provide a grassroots perspective on the Jets' coaching search. Justin from Queens expresses a desire for the Jets to hire someone dynamic like Aaron Glenn, hoping for new leadership to rejuvenate the team: “I would love to hear either Glenn or one of these young guys and give us some hope for the future because it’s been too long, guys” ([39:25]).

Ray from Staten Island emphasizes the need for a coach who can develop young quarterbacks and build a balanced team: “They need a guy who can develop a young quarterback and coach the offense and coach the defense and marry everyone together” ([39:25]).

These calls reflect a broader frustration among fans, highlighting the urgent need for effective leadership to break the Jets' losing streak.

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Analysis of Past Jets Coaches

The hosts reflect on the Jets' history of coaching hires, noting a pattern of short-term appointments that failed to produce sustained success. Don mentions, “Herm Edwards made the playoffs his first two years, Rex Ryan took the team to the championship game his first two years, but ultimately, they couldn’t sustain that success” ([24:51]).

Graziano adds that the Jets' impatience with coaching tenures has prevented any long-term culture shift: “The impatient nature of the management and fan base has led to these short-lived tenures” ([32:56]). This historical context underscores the challenges the Jets face in finding a coach who can build a lasting and successful program.

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Potential Candidates and Their Suitability

The discussion moves to specific potential candidates, with both hosts evaluating their suitability for the Jets. Don cites Richie Petibon’s unsuccessful stint as a head coach as a cautionary tale: “He finally got the gig in 1993 when Gibbs left, went 4 and 12 and that was it” ([42:43]).

They also debate the merits of promoting internal talent versus seeking external candidates, with Don emphasizing the importance of proven leadership and the ability to inspire players: “It's about finding someone who can not only lead but also implement a winning culture” ([33:20]).

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Conclusion: The Path Forward for the Jets

As the episode concludes, Don and Graziano reaffirm the critical importance of the Jets making the right head coach hire. Don underscores, “You have to get it right” ([06:09]), emphasizing that the team’s future hinges on this decision. They both agree that the Jets need a coach who can deliver immediate success while laying the groundwork for sustained performance.

Don urges listeners to participate in the conversation by calling 1-800-919-3776, highlighting the collective desire for effective leadership: “You have to get it right” ([06:09]).

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Notable Quotes

• Don La Greca [01:20]: “We haven’t had a winning season since 2015. We haven’t been to the playoffs since 2010.”
• Dan Graziano [04:31]: “Every single one of them has checks against them. You couldn’t carve out five minutes for Mike McCarthy.”
• Don La Greca [06:09]: “Mike McCarthy does have a Super Bowl ring. That’s why they should consider him.”
• Dan Graziano [35:24]: “The head coach becomes like the face of the franchise. Leadership is number one.”
• Justin (Caller) [39:25]: “I would love to hear either Glenn or one of these young guys and give us some hope for the future because it’s been too long, guys.”
• Ray (Caller) [39:25]: “They need a guy who can develop a young quarterback and coach the offense and coach the defense and marry everyone together.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" provides a thorough and impassioned examination of the New York Jets' head coach search. Through expert analysis, historical context, and direct fan input, the hosts paint a comprehensive picture of the challenges and potential pathways for the frustrated franchise. The emphasis on leadership, culture, and the right mix of experience and inspiration offers valuable insights for anyone invested in the Jets’ quest for redemption.

Transcript

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[Don La Greca]

Don, one day you're not gonna play football anymore. And if there's a God up above, it'll be soon.

[Dan Graziano]

Han, huge.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but big. And Rosenberg.

[Caller]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don La Greca]

This isn't North Dakota, this is New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is Don, Han and Rosenberg on 8 80, ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Don La Greca]

And we're still waiting for the return of Peter and Alan. So Dan Grasse graces us with his presence for a second consecutive day. How are you, buddy?

[Dan Graziano]

Good afternoon. What's new?

[Don La Greca]

Oh, just cold, man. I don't know what it is. I don't know whether it's because it was so warm for so long, but my God, I. You know, taking the kids to school, it was 19. Wind chill, like 12. My God. I know it's January 15th. You really can't complain because this is supposed to be what winter's like, but I don't know, it's just hitting different this year.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, I read somewhere, I saw it, got an alert. It is winter, so.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, so you got. You can't complain, but, you know, I remember. I don't even know I told you this. You know, Chris, New Year's Eve, it was like 58. I was out. I was outside playing baseball. Marco dragged out the bases, you know, pulled out the baseball bag and I'm throwing them pitches in the backyard on December 31st. So I think that's what it is. We were talking about how unseasonably warm it was. And next thing you know, fans fast forward a couple of weeks later and it's like 20. So. And it looks like they're talking like next Tuesday the high will be 22 with the low of 11. So winter is here and it's the winter of our discontent in a lot of ways with the football. And we'll get to Pete Alonso. There's some rumblings there. Rangers get a point. Knicks will play the Sixers tonight. We're only on till 6:30 because of that. Again, The Sixers, shorthanded, as the Knicks will try to kind of right their ship after a disappointing loss to the Pistons, is Embiid's not gonna be in the lineup for the Sixers. But, Dan, we begin with the jets and the coaching search. And I know you're really opinionated on this. I want to kind of give the floor to you.

[Dan Graziano]

They don't have a coach yet.

[Don La Greca]

Really. They don't have a coach. But, you know, Dan Graziano with his article about Arthur Smith. I'm just looking at the list of people that they have interviewed and people that they plan on interviewing. OK. And UnInspired is probably the best way I could describe this list. I mean, nothing really floats my Ron Rivera, Rex Ryan, Matt Nagy. All right, Aaron Glenn, Obviously, he's got a team that he's the defensive coordinator for that could win a Super bowl, but, you know, no experience whatsoever. Mike Loczi, Steve Spagnolo, you know, the Jeff Alberg thing, joke. You know, they're going to talk to Joe Brady, Josh McCown, Vance Joseph, Brian Flores. I mean, you're interviewing between general managers and head coaches. You're interviewing everybody under the sun but you. You can't carve out five minutes for Mike McCarthy. You can't carve out five minutes for Pete Carroll. You tell Bill Belichick, no, we're good. But I want to know, explain to me where we're going with this. Like, I'm not saying that you should hire Mike McCarthy. I, I'm not saying that's a no brainer. I'm not saying Pete Carroll's a no brainer. I know there's a history there with Pete Carroll and all that, but it's going back 30 years, you know, and a lot of winning for Pete Carroll once he left the organization. Now they listen. Bill Belichick comes with a lot of bells and whistles that might not float your boat, but no, you're good on those guys. You know, you won't even call Pittsburgh to find out if you can send a pick for Mike Tomlin, but you got a, got a laundry list of guys that kind of just maybe want to yawn.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, let me ask you a question. I mean, you're looking for a head coach, right?

[Don La Greca]

Yes.

[Dan Graziano]

Who would be use the word uninspiring. Who would be an inspiring choice? What would be an exciting choice for you? Because the fact. Well, the fact of the matter is this, right? Every single guy that is a quote unquote candidate for this job, let's be real, Don. There's a reason they're candidates for the job. There's a reason they're unemployed.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Dan Graziano]

They're not a perfect choice. There are no perfect choices out there. And I said this back in, you know, back when this process got got started. Look, every single person that is either a candidate, thought to be candidate that they're gonna interview, won't interview, will interview. Every single one of them has checks against them. You know, you could sit there and poke holes in each and every one of these candidates. So a lot of times it's almost like you're blindfolded and throwing something against the wall and seeing if it sticks. Let's be real.

[Don La Greca]

Okay, that's fine. And you're absolutely right. So when you have a list of guys that are all flawed and none of them really moved the needle as far as getting the fan base excited, isn't that a reason then to interview Mike McCarthy? Now, Mike McCarthy's flawed, but he does have a Super bowl ring. He's won a lot of games. He's got a relationship with Aaron Rodgers. I mean, there's a lot of checks in the positive as well. So you know, Pete Carroll won in college, one in the pros. I know he, you know, he embarrassed himself with the choke sign. But that was 1994. Okay, that was 30 years ago. Like, so they've got flaws, but along with their flaws, they've got a lot of winning and a lot of experience. So all the more reason to say, you know what, Bill? I know what you did to us 25 years ago, and we're sickened by it. And I know that you get your fat hands on everything. You're gonna want to be the general manager. But you know what? I'm gonna bring you in. I'm gonna talk to you. I'm gonna have a conversation with you. Not just say, no, we're good. No, I'm not interested in Mike McCarthy. Nah. You know what? I don't even want to make a phone call to Pittsburgh for Mike Thoma. It's all the more reason because this list is, eh, that you're kicking the tires on guys that have won.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, just those two guys in particular, number one. I mean, in fairness, Mike McCarthy's only been available for not even 48 hours.

[Don La Greca]

Right. But I'm going, I'm basing it on Rich Samini, who said that he believes there's no interest there. Now, maybe Rich is wrong. Maybe they will bring in Mike McCarthy.

[Dan Graziano]

But remember something, too. The jets did interview Mike McCarthy five years or how many years Ago, it was. Sure. And, you know, and there. And I don't know this to be true because it never came to fruition, so I never even bothered investigating it. But, you know, there's rumblings out there that they weren't exactly overly impressed with Mike McCarthy when they came away from that interview. You know, Pete Carroll, you bring him up. And look, I'm with you. And we know that he. His first shot at NFL head coach was here 30 years ago, and it was a one and done. And they probably pulled the plug on him a lot sooner than they should have. And that was Leon Hess who made the mistake, because then that set the groundwork for the worst, you know, two of the worst years in the history of the franchise with Rich Kotai. But he, you know, Pete Carroll is 73 years old, Don. You know, and, you know, the trend now is. Is getting younger on the sidelines, you know, and look, and I understand. I'm with you. He's done a lot of winning. But let's be real, you know, why did Seattle get rid of him then? Did you think they were tired of all the winning?

[Don La Greca]

Probably. Well, it's the same reason why, you know, maybe Tomlin. Maybe it's time to move away from Tomlin. Maybe he just got, you know, a little stale. He had been there a while. But again, you're not. You weren't in Seattle situation. You're in the jets situation, which has been you. You gave. You. You belched out the record yesterday. You know, you're 36 and 80 since the start of the 2018 season. You have not had a winning season since 2015. You haven't been to the playoffs since 2010. So if Seattle decided to part ways with Pete Carroll, for whatever reason, they thought he was too old, too stale. Well, you know what, then? Maybe that's the couch on the side of the road that I'll put in my living room and I'll relax in and watch TV for the next five years. I'm sorry, Mr. Rich Guy, you. That couch was just above you or below you. Well, you know what? It fits just right in my apartment to watch TV on, because.

[Dan Graziano]

Done that before.

[Don La Greca]

I have never done that.

[Dan Graziano]

No, you need the. You need. I don't think you just, like, roll up because you need the right kind of vehicle to be able to store it.

[Don La Greca]

That is true. But I will tell you anytime, whether somebody I knew or myself put something out on the curb of value, meaning an old couch or like an old mirror or just a cabinet or some kind of dresser Where I'm like, I'm done with this. I got something new, I'm just gonna put it on a car and less than an hour later it's gone. Like, so there are people out there that gobble that stuff up and they refurbish it and they make it work. Yeah, but I'm just saying the jets are that guy driving around just trying to find something to correct what has been a miserable situation for a decade and a half. So I'm sorry, I gotta wonder why exactly you're worried about age. You know, right. There's a big season for them. If Aaron Rodgers comes back, Dan, you only have him possibly for one more year. You've got a talented team. You described it so well. You put, you painted such a tremendous word picture with the way you described like the Giants were a shed that was on fire. This year the jets were a mansion because the jets had talented and they squandered that talent. They squandered their season away for lack of having a coach. So. Oh, I'm above hiring a 72 year old. What exactly are you trying to do? You've got some talent here. You got a quarterback who's going to be 42 in December possibly if he decides to come back. So what are you worried about five years down the road? How about ending this ridiculous miserable streak that you share with the Buffalo Sabres, the longest streak in North American sports history without going to the playoffs. I don't by the way, what's up with. I don't think you really have the time to sit there, you know, and squeeze the oranges to find the perfect ripe one.

[Dan Graziano]

By the way, what was the impetus behind. Did you see like there's a 6pm Buffalo Sabres face off today?

[Don La Greca]

Ah, you know, I reached out to the man that would know and that's Kenny Albert. Yeah, we brought that up during game misconduct as well because it's, It's Wednesday is TNT's double header night.

[Dan Graziano]

Mm.

[Don La Greca]

But the only, the only game, there's only two games on the schedule tonight.

[Dan Graziano]

Ah.

[Don La Greca]

And the second games in Minnesota. So they didn't want to put the, the Wild fans in a situation where they were going to start their game at 8:30 at night because that's what time it would be locally in Minnesota they thought that'd be too late. So they just decided to adjust the Buffalo game to six so they can squeeze in their double header because they didn't have another option because that's the only other game that could be the second game of the double Header interesting. And they probably tipped it up for 9:30 because they don't care about their fans. At least the NHL is like, you know what? We don't want the Minnesota fans to be out too late. Minneapolis, it's a dangerous city.

[Dan Graziano]

And the Sabres, they figure they're not going to make the playoffs anyway.

[Don La Greca]

What does it matter anyway? They're just kind of just skating around like the Ice Capades. But, but, but that's all. And that's why I want to hear from Jet fans at 1-800-919-3776. Like, you've got a chance. You've got coaches. Dan nailed it. They are all flawed. I am not sitting here and I'm going to scream that you have to hire Mike McCarthy. What are you nuts? I'm not saying that. I was saying it when he was available before, when he left Green Bay, but I'm not necessarily saying it now. But you're not going to talk to him. The reports are you're not interested. And the other thing too. I know why they're not interviewing Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson doesn't want the job. But does it make sense to send out publicly you're not interested in Ben Johnson, who's the offensive coordinator of a team that might win the super bowl, but you're interested in the defensive coordinator who's on the same team like, so Ben Johnson says he's not interested. Okay, but at least send out the word that I would be interested in him. Well, not for nothing, how are you above anybody right now?

[Dan Graziano]

There's a lot of smoke that Ben Johnson's going to the Raiders. Like, I mean, it's basically like almost, you know, behind closed doors, everybody seems to think that's the Raiders are probably even more dysfunctional than the jets have been over the last several seasons.

[Don La Greca]

But it's a sexy hire. It's a sexy city.

[Dan Graziano]

No, but I'm saying if you're the jets, would do you care about the fact, like in terms of the pr, that you lost out on a candidate who chose the Raiders over you? Like, the Raiders are a mess, but maybe that could go in the thinking of. Yo, we're not going to reach out to him.

[Don La Greca]

I understand it. But you want the PR of I'm not interested in Ben Johnson. We're not stupid. We know why you said that, because you know that Ben Johnson doesn't want the job. But. But you're interviewing everybody under the sun. But. But not him. Not Mike McCarthy. Not Pete Carroll even. I'll be honest with you. I know you're not really in love with it, but looking at this list, Rex Ryan, I think has more value than a lot of guys on this list. I know he didn't have success in Buffalo. I know it's been forever, but if you're looking to check some boxes, there's at least some positive boxes with Rex.

[Dan Graziano]

But what's the positive, though? That he coached the team before?

[Don La Greca]

Well, no. Well, he's coached the team before. Yes, to their last success. And also, you know, he can deal with, with Woody, because that's also something that we're not talking about. All right. All these people, now they want the job because there's only 32 of them. But some of the better candidates are going to have other options. And all the stuff that was reported about Woody Johnson, not exactly a place that you want to go to as a coach, especially a coach with zero experience where this guy might be walking all over you.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, let me ask you a question. Were any of these concerns or whatnot that have been reported about the owner, were those things tangible back when Rex was coaching the team? He might have been able to deal with that version of the owner. But can he deal with this version of the owner?

[Don La Greca]

I don't know if there is a difference. I don't know.

[Dan Graziano]

But at least, you know what I'm saying.

[Don La Greca]

But there at least is evidence that he had to deal with Woody Johnson.

[Dan Graziano]

I mean, this ain't like the whole like Rex nostalgic thing. It cracks me up. It really does. This is not like bringing Joe Gibbs back to the Redskins when he came back, you know, I mean, like, you know, miss me with all that stuff. He won two years, his first year here and with Eric Mangini's players with a core of a team that was built by Eric Mangini and Mike Tannerbaum. And then once Rex started to get a little bit more power and influence on the roster and put his hands all over the roster, it slowly deteriorated in the coming years to where when they had four non winning seasons. After that, he goes to Buffalo, Don, and has two non winning seasons there, gets fired.

[Don La Greca]

You're right. Again, I'm not saying, I'm not banging on the table saying hire Rex Ryan. What are you nuts? But if I got a chance to hire Rex Ryan or Mike Loxley, I'm going to go with Rex Ryan.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, the Mike Loy think. Come on. That's. I'll say it again. A lot of these interviews, especially when you have an inordinate amount of them like the jets have A lot of these are done as favors to coaching agents.

[Don La Greca]

Okay, but I don't know how you feel about Graziani. I respect him. I mean, I think he knows where it's coming from. I mean, Arthur Smith. Who would you rather have, Arthur Smith or Rex Ryan? Arthur Smith sounds at least more likely than some of the other guys. I mean, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but, you know, you start hearing that that's a possibility, then doesn't Rex Ryan seem a little bit more attractive? You talk about a resume that didn't.

[Dan Graziano]

Really accomplish anything just to play at both sides. Can I just read something real quick? As you brought up the article that Dan had about, you know, he picked, he picked Arthur Smith. And a lot of these picks are because, you know, when you play the process of elimination game, if he has Aaron Glenn going someplace else, Brian Flores going someplace else, which I. He has Aaron Glenn going to the Saints because that's also a rumor because he coached there, and so on and so forth. But the logic seems flawed in the whole pick of Arthur Smith because in the article, and I'm just reading one paragraph, it says in the past, Johnson, who, you know, he implies Woody, has been known to lock in a bit on his personal favorites. Remember, he lost out to the Dolphins on adam Gase in 2016, then hired Gase three years later after the Dolphins fired him. Okay, question for Dan. How did he lose out to Adam Gase in 2016? In 2016, Todd Bowles was the jets coach. That was one year after his first season when he won 10 games. I didn't know the jets were in the market for anything in 2016. So, I mean, again, if you want to, then take that as Gosp and then say, oh, yeah, he thinks Arthur Smith is going to be the coach. You know what? Have a pleasant Wednesday. That's all I can tell you.

[Don La Greca]

All right. Well, Grant, I, I, it is. The logic is flawed.

[Dan Graziano]

But, but no, that would not be an inspired choice. Let's put it.

[Don La Greca]

That would not be an inspired choice. I don't know if Matt Nagy would be an inspired choice either, or at least there's some experience.

[Dan Graziano]

But you know what? Matt Nagy say what you want about him, Don, if you're one, if you want the experience angle and all these other things. Matt Nagy, as far as an experienced retread coach is concerned, is Vince Lombardi compared to Arthur Smith.

[Don La Greca]

No, of course. Well, so is Ron Rivera. At least he coached in a Super Bowl. Although he only had three winning seasons, his Entire career.

[Dan Graziano]

Which is. Which is impossible to fathom. Like, think about it. This is a guy who was a head coach for a dozen years in the NFL and he only. And took a team to a Super bowl, was a two time, if I'm not mistaken, coach of the year two times. And he only had three winning seasons, which is remarkable.

[Don La Greca]

Well, Brian Dabel was able to keep his job because he was coach of the year. So I guess it's a thing. I don't know. I see everything. They haven't. You made a great point. They haven't. You know, they could still end up bringing in Mike McCarthy. They could still end up bringing in Pete Carroll when it's all said and done. And so I will give them credit, both the general manager and head coaching position, they are definitely going after. You know, they're talking to everybody but God, you got to get this right. You got to get it right.

[Dan Graziano]

You got to get it right. You're right about that. And that's the other thing about Pete Carroll is that, you know, not for nothing, like, if you sit down and go through this whole process, process any team. So these six teams right now that have vacancies, Don, they're hoping they hit the jackpot. And the guy that they hire, they hope he's their coach. Like Mike Tomlin has been in Pittsburgh for almost 20 years. They hope that they don't have to go through this again, you know, in their lifetimes employed with this franchise. They hope it's that much of a smashing success. Pete Carroll at 73 years old is not going to be your coach for 20 years, you know.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, but, but that's why.

[Dan Graziano]

That's why George Burns never coached in the NFL. Wouldn't that be funny with a cigar at 90 years old on the sidelines? It wouldn't work.

[Don La Greca]

But, you know, were in Hollywood making movies, you're like, I'm not going to hire George Burns. He's 73 years old. Well, then you would have lost out on like 20 years of work. All right, Pete Carroll is 73 in age only. I mean, the guy, the way he conducts himself, the way that he's able to handle situations, he is a young 73 years old. And again, we talk about, we talk about bridge quarterbacks, right? Well, how about just trying to just change the culture of your organization? What would be so wrong with what the Jet fans have been through if Pete Carroll came here and was only here for two or three years, but in those two or three years, you finish above.500, you go to the playoffs, maybe you win a playoff game, and then he's 75, 76, and he decides, you know, maybe it's time for me to walk away. But you've established something. You started winning. The job becomes more attractive to people. You know, maybe there's somebody that's working under Pete Carroll that you can get the recommendation to get him to graduate. I don't look at those two, three years of winning necessarily bad for a franchise that hasn't done anything since 2010. So I don't think you really have the luxury, if you're the jets, to find the guy that's going to be your next coach for the next 20 years. Really? When does that ever happen outside of Pittsburgh? All right, when the Jet. When the jets finally get somebody that's good, they're only here for a brief amount of, you know, Herm Edwards wasn't here 20 years. Eric Mangini wasn't here 20 years. Neither was Bill Parcells. Like, so why would you even have the arrogance to say, we want to find the next guy, and then we're good with the head coach for the next two decades?

[Dan Graziano]

Well, I mean, in a perfect world, that's what you aspire to.

[Don La Greca]

But you're. But it's almost an impossibility.

[Dan Graziano]

I mean, John Harbaugh with the Ravens, they struck gold there, too.

[Don La Greca]

They did.

[Dan Graziano]

Basically, he was hired one year after Tomlin was, and he was a special.

[Don La Greca]

Teams coach, but those are the priorities.

[Dan Graziano]

Brian Costello in the Post, he had a real, real good article, you know, kind of, you know, summarizing everything that's going on with the coaching thing. And, you know, one of the things he brought up was he rewound back to the hiring cycle in 2021 when Salah was hired. And if you think about all those jobs that were open that off season and how people thought of the hires at the time, like, rating coaching hires is basically as useless as grading the draft, like, the next day, right? Like, you don't know who cares about these draft choices until they actually play a couple of years. But back then, in 2021, like most people universally gave the Jets a round of applause that Salah was one of the better hires. He was, like the hot head coaching candidate. And part of that cycle was also Nick Sirianni. And Anthony could dig it up. Like, go back and play Nick Sirianni's, like, introductory press conference. He was, like, stumbling all over himself. He sounded like a fool. And you. And the. And you're like, what are the Eagles doing? Like, where did they find this guy. And this guy's what? Been to the playoffs almost every year. He's taken him to the Super Bowl. You know, Dan Campbell, the guy biting knee and everything that he said at his press conference that day. And look at what the Lions are right now.

[Don La Greca]

You're right. But listen, I could, and I can give you a history lesson on retreads that ended up being fantastic. You know, Holmgren took Seattle to a Super Bowl. You know, Bill Parcells, what he was able to do both in New England, Dallas and with the Jets. I mean, there's plenty of guys that were retreads. You can look at Pete Carroll was a retread, Bill Belichick was a retread.

[Dan Graziano]

But you're talking about champions almost, right? I mean, like, you almost have to find me the guy who flamed out, if you will, after his first gig and then became like a championship caliber coach or something like that. Like his next job, took a team to a championship. Now, Pete Carroll is that guy, right? Pete Carroll. The Seahawks were his third job. Jets, Patriots. And then he went to, well, I mean, aside from usc. Then he went to Seattle. That was his third job and he won a championship.

[Don La Greca]

But they're not good at this. Can we say that at least? So at least if you bring somebody that had won someplace before, then there's a chance that you could stumble upon it. They talked about it this morning on Dpietro and Rothenberg about the resume as opposed to the interview. So you got a guy that's got a resume, he has won before, he's been a coach for a long time, but interviews poorly, you won't hire the guy. But a guy that has no resume or his resume is not good, but he lights up a room like Art Howe, you hire him. Like we put so much stock in the interview. Why not just look at the resume? Now, I'm not saying if you interview the guy and he's like that, you hire him. But if I've won someplace before, I've got a pedigree, I've got a history, I'm well liked, I'm well respected in the league. But he doesn't exactly float your boat in the interview. Maybe it's on you. Maybe you're not looking at the right things. Maybe you don't know what you're doing. And unfortunately with the Jets, I don't know if they know what they're doing. So you take a chance on hiring a nobody. What are they going to see? They're not good at this.

[Dan Graziano]

The interview process is important, though, because, let's face it, in the. For, for the most part, your head coach becomes like the face of your franchise. He's the guy that's up there at the microphone, you know, four times a week, he's splashed everywhere. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I do. I do think the interview process matters to a certain degree, because then you want to be able to project that guy and that image all over your franchise.

[Don La Greca]

I'm not saying don't interview him, but this is the same thing that frustrates me with the draft. You know, there could be a kid coming out of the draft that has 60 games of tremendous experience in college football, has a bad combine, and he drops. Like the interview is kind of like the combine. Like, you should at least have a fundamental knowledge of who you're talking to. And then you just make sure you're on the same page with the guy. There's certain things you want to know. All right, does he fit my philosophy? Yeah, you want to sit down and talk to him. But sometimes I just wonder that we just kind of ignore the resume, especially for a team that when do they find the needle in the haystack? You know, When. When do they find the hidden gem? Where's their history of finding that?

[Dan Graziano]

Well, you know what's funny? Like, they went through a period there where all those coaches, they had immediate success, like Herman Edwards made the playoffs his first two years as the head coach of the Jets, I would say. Right. Eric Mangini made the playoffs his first year as the head coach of the Jets. Rex Ryan took the team to the championship game his first two years as head coach of the Jets. Todd Bowles won 10 games.

[Don La Greca]

I was gonna say that's. That's when the streak ended. Yeah, but he still won 10 games. But. No, you're right, there's been that. But they didn't turn out to. I, I think. I think Herm was good. I do think Herm was.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, Herm also didn't want to be here any longer. His family wanted to go back to the Midwest and the Kansas City thing became open.

[Don La Greca]

And, you know, that was, you know that. That was situation there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Caller]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

Don and Dan with you here on Don Han and Rosenberg to get a little 6:30 that. It's Knicks basketball. Knicks and the Sixers down in Philadelphia. 1-800-919-3776 number to call. We're talking about the jets options for head coach Aaron Glenn. Certainly one of their options. They've interviewed him virtually but cannot interview him until their season is over. In person. Detroit, obviously is playing host to a divisional round game coming up this weekend, so as soon as they're eliminated or after the super bowl, they'll be able to talk to him in person. Glenn spoke today. Why are offensive coaches winning more Super Bowls than defensive coaches?

[Aaron Glenn]

I don't know if that's truly accurate. I can just go off the top of my head with Bill Carr, Mike Tomlin, Bill Belichick, that's won a ton of Super Bowls as a defensive coach. And here's the one thing that I would say about myself. I'm a coach. I just happen to be on defense. I understand the offense just as well as a number of people. So if you want to hire me, you're going to hire a coach. You're not going to hire a defensive coach. I'm gonna talk to the offense just as much. I'm talking to the defense.

[Don La Greca]

Well, that's the key right now. That was the problem with Rex, who's a defensive guy, didn't pay no mind to the offense at all. That's kind of the way things were with Robert Sala once Aaron Rodgers got here, where I'll focus on the offense. You focus on the defense. Yes. Defensive coaches have won. Mike Tomlin hasn't won in a long time. You know, Belichick's out of the league now.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, I mean, half the coaches that are still alive are defensive coaches. And I brought up the name earlier. I mean, John Harbaugh done. He was a special teams coach. I think he's done okay. For the true.

[Don La Greca]

I always try to lean towards more of the offensive because I think it's an offensive league. And when you're trying to develop a quarterback, what you don't want to have is what Steve Young used to always talk about with the jets when Rex Ryan was here is that you need somebody that's going to pay attention to the offense. It can't just all be about one side. So when I hear Glenn say he's going to talk to the offense and listen, you should know offense, if you're a defensive coordinator, your job is to stop the offense. You have to understand what you're trying to stop. But what happens sometimes these guys get so fixated on their expertise and they leave something else that isn't cultivated the right way. And offense is just Way too important to kind of just leave it there. But you're. But you're right. There's. You know, Pete Carroll was a defensive guy. There's been guys that are. That are defensive guys, but primarily won.

[Dan Graziano]

The division five years in a row with the Buffalo Bills. That is true.

[Don La Greca]

But, you know, he's also a guy that hasn't been able to get him over the top either. And I don't. I'm not really sure. Like, I think that's the biggest problem I have with the matchup with Baltimore is I think Baltimore's got the better coach.

[Dan Graziano]

And I think if you asked any Jet fan, would they sign up for five straight division titles right now?

[Don La Greca]

Of course. Well, see, now we're talking about something here.

[Caller]

But.

[Don La Greca]

But I do think there is something to the fact that people kind of look and skew more towards the offense. My biggest problem with Aaron Glenn is he doesn't have an experience. Not that he's a defensive coordinator, but I do. I just think it's a big job and you'd like to have a little experience. You don't want to take the chance and just getting the wrong guy. And there are plenty of tremendous coordinators that just don't end up being great head coaches. I think it's a. It's a different skill set. So you are taking that chance, Dan, of. Of the unknown, of. I am hiring this guy to kind of save my franchise. And he's never done it before. We have no idea whether he can do it. So there's a. There's a lot of unknown there. But, you know, some people like unknown, including Ray in Staten Island. You're on ESPN New York.

[Caller]

What's up, Ray, Don and Dan. Greetings, gentlemen. Long time Jet fan. I feel like the jets, over the course of me watching them and being a fan, it's like watching a slot machine and we come up lemons either on coach or general manager or quarterback, and we have no patience. I'll tell you, it was a mistake in my opinion, firing Douglas. Mistakes aside, this year, every analyst, ESPN analyst, oh, they're a top five roster. So then he did his job and never cap problems.

[Don La Greca]

So we.

[Caller]

He was okay, but we didn't stick with him. We fired him. And now we find ourselves in the situation again.

[Dan Graziano]

Look, I. And I, on a personal level, I love Joe, okay? But let me ask you a question. If you, if you were running the organization, okay, you had a guy whose contract was up at the end of the year, he had six seasons already at the job. Did not have one winning season in six years. Are you giving him another contract? Are you saying, you know, we might as well try this a different way since we're not winning.

[Caller]

But did he not win because of, of his job as a general manager or because the coaching and quarterback play or schemes were bad?

[Dan Graziano]

But who backs?

[Caller]

I gotta be honest, I agree with what you said before, Dan. And it's to find somebody that's going to be here 10, 15 years, right?

[Dan Graziano]

I mean, let's. The fatal flaw though, with the general manager, Ray, I mean, and Don, let's face it, it's. It was the Zach Wilson decision that.

[Don La Greca]

That, that he could not get up.

[Dan Graziano]

Remember that? Guess what? If, if, if Zach Wilson doesn't implode, then Aaron Rodgers isn't here, which means that Aaron Rodgers doesn't get hurt Week 1 of 2023 and sends that season down a spiral. You know what I'm saying? So it's like a domino effect, but.

[Don La Greca]

There'S a lot of things that go into it. Yes, it's collecting talent. You need talent to win. But it's interesting in football. It's not like the NBA where usually the most talented team wins because they can gobble up a bunch of minutes. And if I got LeBron James, I got a shot in his prime. I got, I got kd, I got, I got a shot in his prime. You can make the case, over the last decade, who's been the most talented team? I mean, the Dallas Cowboys have tons of talent. Would you want Jerry Jones to be your general manager because you want these players to win? The reason you want talented players, Dan, is to win games. It's not about who's got the most talent, who sends the most guys to the Pro Bowl. Do these collection of players win? So you're right, Dan. I mean, they didn't win. So what, are you going to extend the contract if a general manager didn't win?

[Dan Graziano]

And it's not like you're not giving them enough of a leash. It was done. It was six years.

[Don La Greca]

And then because of Zach Wilson, you had to go and do what you did with Aaron Rodgers. And so far that hasn't worked. I mean, and that's the problem I have with Shane and Dable. After another losing season, likely in 2025, are you going to extend those guys? Because at the end of the day, it's about winning games, not collecting talent. There's plenty of talented teams in the NFL. Heck, they're all talented in some way, shape or form. But can you put them together? To win, Are you also talented in the right areas to win?

[Dan Graziano]

So, and, and, and you go back to, like, if you rewind to the last hiring cycle, like, because, again, like, with this whole, like, first time versus experience and like, you just, just don't know because of the uncertainty. Four years ago, if you ask most Jet fans, okay, they were generally positive when it came to the hiring of Robert Sala because they saw a guy who was a top coordinator with a winning program in San Francisco. The guy who showed him he was the anti Adam Gase. Don, right? Adam Gase was lifeless on the sidelines. Robert Sala was like, jumping up and down like a maniac with the 49ers firing up his players. So he would be a players coach. He would bring some life, some passion, some enthusiasm, all those things. That was the thought process in 2021 when he got the job, and Jet fans were pumped. How'd it work out?

[Don La Greca]

It didn't because it's not cosmetic. It's. It's about just finding the guy that's going to win it. There's no perfect formula, but you just said it. It's cosmetically. It worked because Gase was lost. He was. He was seeing flying tacos, right? And here comes Salah, and he's young and he's. He's muscular and he's running up and down the side and he's. He's keeping receipts and it. But what does that mean? It doesn't matter.

[Dan Graziano]

And generally, teams, when they do make a coaching chain, well, at least if you want to go with the jets, like, they generally go opposite direction, right? So, like, let's rewind. They went, you know, Herm Edwards was like an animated. I'm just going. Since Woody Johnson on the team. Herm Edwards is like an animated type guy in the sidelines, right? Players coach. He's out. Eric Mangini, the complete opposite on the sidelines, okay? Mangini was too much a stick in the mud. We brought in the complete opposite, Rex. After that, Rex was maybe too lively. Now we got to make it a little bit more toned down again. They went with Todd Bowles, who was, you know, more of, you know, honest demeanor and stuff like that on the sidelines. Then they went to Adam Gase. I don't know what they were thinking, whatever. But then Robert Sala, Mr. Energy, Mr. You know, aggressive on the sidelines. Which direction do they go now? Do they go for, like, the anti Robert Salah? I don't know.

[Don La Greca]

It's so funny because, like, from afar, who are the best coaches in the NFL. If you had to make a list, that would be McFay. Shanahan, you brought up Harbaugh in Baltimore. I don't know. What are their personalities? What are they known for on the sidelines? I only know them because they win games and they've coached in Super Bowls and they put their teams in a position to win championships. Not because they're animated, not because they're a great quote, not because they're doing something wacky on the sidelines. Like, we get so caught up in personality. And that's why I said about the interview. He lit up a room. We all judge how good a hire is by their first press conference. Oh, McAdoo's not gonna be any good. He doesn't fit in his suit. Do you win? Do you win games? That's what I want you to do. I don't care if you're a good weekly. I don't care if you're a good quote. I don't care if you're run up and down the sidelines like a special teams coach. Do you win games?

[Dan Graziano]

And you know what's more important? I'm telling you right now, I mean, don't get me wrong, it helps, okay? It helps. It's not even so much the tacticals anymore or the X's and O's. It's about leadership. That is number freaking one on the list, Don, I'm telling you because that was said to me multiple times in that building, even as of a couple of weeks ago, at the end of the season when this whole process kick started. What are you looking for? Leadership culture. All those head coaches that you named in the NFL right now that are still playing, that are successful, they have successful programs, they are leaders of men. They can stand in front of a room with 53 guys and have each and every one of them buying into what they're selling.

[Don La Greca]

But it's easy to get them to buy in to what you're selling. It's easy to get them to lead them to the promised land if you put together a game plan and you win games. Right.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, I understand. And all three of those guys, they were all first time head coaches.

[Don La Greca]

No, you're right. And. But there's also plenty of first time head coaches that don't work out. I mean, I thought Dan Campbell looked like a clown. We're going to chew knees, but we'll see how good a coach he ends up being. Because if he ends up going forward on fourth down a dozen times and not kicking any field goals next week and they get bounced, then we're going to wonder exactly how good a coach he really is. So obviously he's a much better coach than anybody had thought. But if you put together a game plan and put a team in a position to win games, then you'll be able to lead them. But it's really tough to lead them if the game plan doesn't work. You're down by 30 at the half.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, think about it that like you think of the Lions right now as like this high flying offense and Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson's a genius, right. Because of what he's done with this Lions offense. Ben Johnson wasn't the oc Dan Campbell's first couple of years there. Remember, it was Jim Bob Cooter, I think.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Dan Graziano]

And then they made the switch and then all of a sudden you got this guy Ben Johnson on the staff. Voila. And then look what happens. It's pretty Let your coaches coach, put together a strong coaching staff. That's a big part of this too. You got to put a strong staff together if you're going to be, unquote, CEO and not be married to one side of the foot.

[Don La Greca]

No, there's a lot. There's a lot that goes into it. That's what's unknown about all of this. 1-800-919-3776 it's Don, it's Dan, it's Don Hahn and Rosenberg on 880 ESPN.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Caller]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

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[Caller]

Listen, great show I've been at, lifelong Jet fan, and I think that what's most important is not defense, not offense, but who can build the best staff. I'll ask you guys a question. When's the last time the jets got a hot assistant stolen away from them? The question is, it hasn't happened.

[Don La Greca]

No, because they never get that guy.

[Caller]

They never have anybody who's a guru who, you know what I mean, could coach the offense or close to defense. They need a guy who can, like you said, lead to 53 guys, but also get the guy who can develop young quarterbacks. Because undoubtedly we're going to have a young quarterback. We need a guy who can develop a young quarterback and coach the offense and coach the defense and that guy and can marry everyone together. That's what we need. And I think that's Aaron Glenn.

[Don La Greca]

No.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, CEO leader. That's what you need, right? That's what they're looking for.

[Don La Greca]

And again, I would not have a problem with the hire necessarily, but there you will go in with a little bit of unknown. Will he be able to handle being a head coach? See you start checking. I don't know if checking when you check boxes. Oh, he played here, he played here at a high level. Who cares? That was 20 years ago. I Don't get caught up in that. Is it a nice story? You know, Yeah, I guess it's a nice story. It looks good in the press release. Right. But I don't know if that's going to help him become a great coach or not, you know, so I, I will be open to it. He seems like he's a legit candidate, might help the Detroit Lions win their first ever Super Bowl. So what's cooler than that? But then you're going to go in not knowing you're going to go in not. Because I always bring up this analogy and it sounds ridiculous. You know, Ray Hanley was a really good, really good assistant coach. He was the running backs coach in 86 and 90. He was a quality control coach. He did a lot of good things on that 90 Super Bowl. And Bill Parcells recommended him because he's a good football guy. Complete clown show. Because it's a different set of skills, completely different set of skills. You just don't know. So they'll, so you're just going to go in with that kind of apprehension in what is a major hire of not knowing whether he can actually do the job or not.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, I mean the list is countless. I mean, shoot, we could go all the way back. You want to really date ourselves. Bill Arnsbarger was, you know, part of those undefeated Miami Dolphin, coordinating those defenses. And then later on with the Killer Bees, he gets the giant head coaching job in the 70s. How'd that work out?

[Don La Greca]

Not well. No, not good.

[Caller]

Bob.

[Dan Graziano]

And we're talking, you know what's funny? Like we're talking about head coach. Head coach. Let's not forget two guys when it comes to the jets, who's the GM gonna be? Because chances are that position is going to be filled before the head coach. Because you want the GM to at least be able to sit in on those second round of interviews with the coach.

[Don La Greca]

And we know that's going to be. Yeah, but you just wonder like Bob brought that up yesterday. Bob was using. Well, you didn't have him the first round like so I don't know how much they're, how much stock they're going to put into anything that he says. The name I wanted to bring up to you and this is old school. Peter would probably appreciate it being an old Redskins fan. But you, you, I think you're old enough to remember Richie Pettibone and he was a long time defensive coordinator in Washington. He was a part of the, those super bowl teams in the 80s and the 91 team and he finally head coach for one year after Gibbs left. He finally got the gig after all those years and all those championships of the defensive coordinator. He finally got the gig in 1993 when Gibbs left, went 4 and 12 and that was it.

[Dan Graziano]

So he was, he was the Washington head coach. I remember in 93 he was on the other sideline in that infamous 3 nothing classic jet win over Washington at RFK Stadium on a Saturday afternoon. Yes, 3 nothing.

[Don La Greca]

See, so that's all I'm saying is is that, you know, great assisted legendary assistant in Washington now maybe if they let let him go more than one year, he might have improved on that 4 and 12 record. But never got the opportunity, never got another sniff again.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, but. And that's like, again, see, like everything is so impatient. Like we were talking about that yesterday with other coaches. Like I brought up Kubiak all those years ago, but like you brought up Richie Pettibone. Pete Carroll got bagged after one year. How did that work out in the long run? Bill Parcells was almost fired after his first year with the Giants. Don, think about how different history in New York football would have been if that happened now.

[Don La Greca]

They wanted. They had a conversation about it. 312 and one first year game, another shot went nine and seven, won a.

[Dan Graziano]

Playoff game and did pretty good after that, right?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. Ten and six lost to the Bears and then one that won a Super bowl. You know, pretty. And now he's in a Hall of Fame. There you go. Justin and Tom's river, you're on the ESPN New York.

[Caller]

Hey, Don. Hey Dan. Thank you for taking my phone call as always. You know, I agree with a lot with you guys are saying. You know, obviously it's very important with this gm, you know, who the jets choose because obviously it's about bringing in the talent to this team. But you know, obviously there's a lot of choices out there. Honestly, as a longtime Jet fan, I don't want to see Arthur Smith and that would just tell me that nobody wanted this job and it's that toxic with the ownership and the people that are in the management positions at that point. You know, me as a longtime Jet fan, I would love to see Aaron Glenn, one outside the point that he was a player, you know, with Parcels and Dean with Detroit. But you know, there's a lot of other great names out there too. Yeah, I'm surprised Josh McCown wasn't mentioned or the, you know, the offensive coordinator down with the Texans. I just wanted these. You know, Arthur Smith would not impassionate this fan base because Woody Johnson has absolutely killed this fan base. And you see the revolting in the stands. There's nobody there. Garbage bags and and paper bags over their faces. Want him to sell the team. He's got to get this one right, guys, because he will lose this fan base and it's starting to get to that point and get ugly. But I would just love to hear either Glenn or one of these young guys and give us some hope for the future because it's been too long, guys. 14 years is too long. Playoff game, Dan. It's hard and it's got to change.

[Don La Greca]

I 100% agree. Arthur Smith, Dan, we were talking about it. I want to be on the air the day that hire happens. We might save lives. Talking to some callers who are like, at the George Washington Bridge, ready to jump, that would be an absolute disaster.

[Dan Graziano]

Look, I could close my eyes and remember my immediate thoughts when the Adam Gase News came down in 2019. And I didn't expect that in a.

[Don La Greca]

Million years, but at least I was there. Can I ask you a question as a Jet fan, Dan, that you are, did. Did. Was the fact that he came recommended by Peyton Manning buffer it a little bit? Like you were like, oh, really? It's uninspired. But when you heard that, did you say, oh, well, maybe.

[Dan Graziano]

Well, because you drank the koolaid, you drank the Kool Aid, that he's coming in to work with the quarterback and to bring the best out of Sam Darnold, which is one of the reasons why he was hired. Right. And so you bought into that. But I. I'm gonna choose my words carefully. I think what Justin said on the call, I think pretty much sums up how most fans would probably feel if they went in that direction.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Dan Graziano]

I don't want to know how the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sausage is made, man.

[Caller]

I just want to know.

[Don La Greca]

It's good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.