Hour 1: Jets Turnaround?

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: Jets Turnaround?

ESPN New York with Don La Greca & Alan Hahn (Peter Rosenberg Off)
Date: December 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the state of New York sports, focusing heavily on the New York Jets' recent slight turnaround under new head coach Aaron Glenn. With Peter Rosenberg absent, Don La Greca and Alan Hahn analyze NFL parity, question whether Jets fans should feel optimistic, and discuss what real progress might look like for a long-downtrodden franchise. They also touch on the Giants’ quarterback situation, the NFL’s muddled hierarchy, and rumors swirling about Steelers coach Mike Tomlin.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. NFL “Parity” – Is It Really Good For the Game?

(00:46 – 07:08)

• Don’s Parity Rant:
  Don expresses discontent with claims that NFL parity (competitive balance) has improved the quality of the league, arguing most teams are “mediocre, very average,” rather than genuinely good.

  "We haven't been able to figure out good parity. All we really have is bad parity." (02:37, Don Hahn)

• Hahn’s Parity Stats:
  Alan notes, statistically, twelve teams are at least four games over .500 (05:07), tying a record since 2000, yet the league still feels unimpressive and lacks a dominant Super Bowl favorite.

• Memorable Moment:
  The panel reflects on the 2000 Giants-Ravens Super Bowl—a stark example of parity producing unmemorable championship games:

  "Was that a Super Bowl that you’re like, I’ll never forget the 2000 Super Bowl?" (05:52, Alan Hahn)

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2. The Chicago Bears as NFC’s Top Seed – and What That Reveals

(07:08 – 09:03)

• Coaching Matters:
  Alan credits the Bears’ acquisition of top coordinator Ben Johnson for their surprising season and uses it as a lens to critique the Jets’ own coaching search.

• Rebuilding Models:
  They contrast the Jets’ and Giants’ coaching situations with those of the Bears, questioning if hiring the "hot coordinator" is a smarter move than recycling veteran coaches.

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3. Jets' Incremental Progress Under Aaron Glenn

(09:03 – 25:44)

• Lukewarm Optimism:
  Despite a close win over Atlanta, Alan finds it hard to celebrate, feeling the season is too far gone and the win means little ("I watched the game end and I just like, all right, that's cool." 09:20). Don, however, argues why Jets fans should care:

  "The only way to move in the right direction is to win. ...I'm sorry, people, don’t pretend that you know football more than you actually do." (10:49, Don Hahn)

• Culture Over Draft Picks:
  Don strongly opposes "tanking" for a higher pick, claiming wins matter more for changing culture and attracting free agents.

  "You want to change your culture, you want to change the image of your team. It’s not about, Oh, playing well and losing games. It’s about winning games. And they are." (12:14, Don Hahn)

• Detroit Parallels:
  Alan draws comparisons to the Lions’ slow but steady progress under Dan Campbell and Aaron Glenn, suggesting the Jets could follow a similar path.

  "That 3-13-1 turned into 9-8 the next season… but you gotta remember that season started 1-6." (13:38, Alan Hahn)

• Player Motivation:
  The duo spotlights running back Breece Hall’s effort as proof players still care, pushing back against cynics who assume stars mentally check out in bad seasons.

  "Does Breece Hall look like a guy that's quit?... He wanted to get traded. He didn't get his contract. And yet I saw him on the sidelines devastated in Baltimore when he fumbled the game away." (16:32, Don Hahn)

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4. Progress is Not a Guarantee—But It Matters

(21:17 – 25:44)

• Hahn’s Relationship Analogy:
  Alan likens the Jets’ incremental progress to “the courting stage” in a relationship—not the Super Bowl honeymoon, but first dates and baby steps that might, eventually, lead to something real (21:17).

• The Hope vs. Progress Debate:
  Alan confesses apathy from years of heartbreak (“Hope will drive a man insane” – 24:14), but Don pushes the need for even small steps forward:

  "Can you at least get a little bit—a little smile on your face? Can I see it? Like a smirk, something?" (24:13, Don Hahn)

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5. Live Calls: What Does Progress Really Look Like for the Jets?

(30:34 – 39:33)

• Caller Charles (New Jersey) urges Alan and fans to “smell the roses” and appreciate even small wins as necessary for change.

  "I am, in fact, a Lions fan and I've been one my entire life. So I know what it feels like to be on that downward skid and eventually it does turn around. Well, I kind of got to embrace every moment." (30:34, Charles, caller)

• Other Fans Echo the Need for Patience:

  • “They have all the cap space in the world… a ridiculous amount of draft picks… and they have time.” (36:57, Mike, Caller)
  • Don notes, regardless of future moves, the two indispensable building blocks are a coach and a quarterback; these wins are about finding out if Aaron Glenn is the first piece.

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6. The Mike Tomlin (Steelers) Rumor Mill—Should the Giants Pounce?

(43:46 – End)

• Steelers Fans Turning on Tomlin:
  For the first time, “Fire Tomlin” chants erupt in Pittsburgh. Don and Alan lay out the staggering reality: three coaches in 56 years; not a single Tomlin losing season.

• Would the Giants Jump?
  Both agree—if Tomlin becomes available (via mutually agreed exit, not firing), he’s the can't-miss target for the Giants as head coach.

  "If Tomlin's available, tell me who you would want above him that has that kind of a resume." (50:51, Don Hahn)

• Adam Schefter’s View:

  "If that were the case, [Tomlin] would be going away the number one head coaching candidate. ...He could do whatever he wants." (48:38, Adam Schefter, via Alan Hahn)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don, on NFL Parity:

  “All we really have is bad parody.” (02:37)

• Don, on ‘good’ wins over tanking:

  “The only way to move in the right direction is to win…You root for them. They're working their ass off and they're playing for [Aaron Glenn].” (10:49–12:14)

• Alan, on progress vs hope:

  “Hope will drive a man insane. It's a dangerous thing.” (24:14)

• Don, on why incremental steps matter:

  “It's small little increments of success, Alan. Nothing to get excited about, but you're stepping forward.” (23:58)

• Alan, on coaching searches:

  “If Tomlin's available, tell me who you would want above him that has that kind of a resume.” (50:51)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• NFL Parity Critique: 00:46 – 07:08
• Bears' Coaching Success: 07:08 – 09:03
• Jets Mini-Turnaround & Meaning: 09:03 – 13:38
• Lessons from Detroit’s Rebuild: 13:38 – 17:02
• Player Engagement & Team Culture: 16:32 – 18:40
• Progress, Hope & Relationship Analogy: 21:17 – 25:44
• Live Callers on Jets’ Progress: 30:34 – 39:33
• Steelers/Tomlin to Giants Speculation: 43:46 – End

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Overall Tone & Flow

• The banter is sharp, honest, with trademark New York straight-talk and a bit of dry humor. Don is somewhat more optimistic (but realistic), while Alan’s skepticism (grounded in years of fan suffering) keeps the optimism grounded. The tone is neither effusively positive nor overly negative—it's the mindset of battle-worn New York sports followers searching for real, sustainable progress.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

• Expect a candid, nuanced exploration of what small steps mean for a rebuilding franchise—and a plea not to let apathy or tanking mindsets dominate the narrative.
• The discussion upends simple narratives (“just lose for picks!”), exploring how culture, coaching, and attitude set up for more meaningful long-term change.
• If you’re a Giants fan, the Tomlin rumor discussion is must-hear.
• Great episode for fans who want to understand why incremental culture shifts—and not just big moves—matter so much for struggling teams.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

At New Balance, we believe if you run, you're a runner.

[Alan Hahn]

However you choose to do it.

[Don Hahn]

Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your [e-mail] Running Don, where do we sedan on Sus Han.

[Alan Hahn]

It's lame. It needs Viagra. And Rosenberg.

[Don Hahn]

I'm gonna lift my shirt up, take my pants down, and shake it all around. This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Alan Hahn]

This is Don, Han, and Rosenberg.

[Caller]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Alan Hahn]

ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube 301 in the big city with Don McGregor. I'm Alan Hahn. Peter Rosenberg off today. He's moving. Don. Little movie for Peter.

[Don Hahn]

I heard.

[Alan Hahn]

So he's packing up boxes and shipping them somewhere else and sure getting himself where he's got to get situated. So we.

[Don Hahn]

Saturday and Sunday are good days to do that, but why not Monday? Never let a good show get in the way of doing your stuff.

[Alan Hahn]

From what I understand, movers don't work on Saturday. Sunday, it's the weekend.

[Don Hahn]

No, I think they move. Maybe you got to pay a little extra. I think people can move on a Saturday.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, probably could, but they didn't. And you would think today of old days after what happened to me on Thanksgiving.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Listen, you know what? Thanksgiving is a. I know you're in a lot of trouble. You let Peter right back into the conversation. That's one of the reasons I thought he'd be on today. To kind of hang on the rim a little. Please.

[Alan Hahn]

You would think.

[Don Hahn]

But no, that's good. Good for you. But listen, it was tough. Man. That looks no Kansas City hook. It was the Lions. Football is just an absolute mess.

[Alan Hahn]

Trust anybody.

[Don Hahn]

And I don't like it.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you don't?

[Don Hahn]

I don't like. I don't like it.

[Alan Hahn]

All these people that told me just how good I. How great it is that it's. There's par. Everybody has a chance to win. Don. This is supposed to be good for.

[Don Hahn]

The sport, but I'm all good with like I like. It's almost like I don't want to mention the guest because I don't want to insult the man. He's a great man. But there's a person that we always try to book as a guest that, in theory, is an amazing guest in name it pops on the rundown. Okay, but it doesn't work on the air. No, parody is great in theory. Everybody's got A chance. Everybody goes to camp thinking they won the Super Bowl. It's wide open. Look, all these teams have a chance, but we haven't been able to figure out good parity. All we really have is bad parody.

[Alan Hahn]

What's good parody?

[Don Hahn]

Good parody is when there's a bunch of teams that are all good and they're all battling for position. And there are several teams that are good, not a bunch of average teams. You know, batting the bunny. And then eventually somebody gets hot and wins the Super Bowl. This week, it's the Rams, right? Oh, the Rams are clearly the best team in the nfc. Nobody's gonna be able to stop the Rams. And then they turn around and put up a stinker in Carolina. Now, listen, the Panthers are a pretty good football team, but if the Rams were what we thought they were, they're not losing that game in Carolina. They're winning that game and they're marching towards the Super Bowl. Philadelphia is having. I've never heard of team meetings. Not involving the quarterback. That's not good. It's not going. You're not including. It's one thing. Not including the coach. That's a. That's a standard.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Not including the quarterback. That's a problem. You know, Kansas City is in trouble. I mean, Buffalo looked fine against Pittsburgh, although I think there's a mess there in Pittsburgh.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Just ask Aaron Rodgers. He'll tell you all the things that are wrong with the team.

[Alan Hahn]

Man, we have an NFL bench today that we might need two segments.

[Don Hahn]

There's been a rumor that Peter might come back for ENN at 6. He should come back at 4:30 for the binge because there's so much to get into. But my overall point is, because, listen, there's parody in the NHL, too. Like, there's a bunch of. But there's one team sitting there in Colorado that's clearly better than everybody else, you know, so that feels good. It's like, all right, there's something to strive for. And I think that. I think the play in general in the NHL has been very good, you know, and I think injuries have kind of put teams in. In tough spots, and that's why things are kind of up for grabs here in the NFL. It's just. It doesn't feel. It's not great football. The game's not being played well, and there's no great team. So why should we celebrate a lack of greatness? I thought we get into sports because we celebrate greatness. Not celebrating a bunch of average teams, you know, like the Mighty Mites that'll play between periods of the hockey king kind of just bouncing off each other and then eventually somebody puts one in the net. Right. I mean we would like to see a true champion and maybe that will rise in the next five, six weeks. But right now I'm not enjoying it at all.

[Alan Hahn]

Think about this. The Jaguars, Chargers, Bills and Packers all won, right?

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

So the total now number of teams that are at least four games over 500 is 12.

[Don Hahn]

12 of 32.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. That's tied going back to the 2000 season for the most teams with at least four games over 500 through week 13.

[Don Hahn]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

The only twice it's happened this in 2000 since the, since the merger in 1970.

[Don Hahn]

And, and what do we see in 2000? We saw a Giants team come out of nowhere, go 12 and 4 and go to the super bowl, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Who won it and get their heads.

[Don Hahn]

Handed to him by a Raven team that had no offense, no quarterback, nine and seven, but had a amazing defense, but had a. At a quarterback that like nobody wanted. Trent Dilfer, but he won. That's where we're headed for, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Think about it. But that's what happens is in a season like this, that. And was that a Super bowl that you're like, I'll never forget the 2000 Super Bowl.

[Don Hahn]

Well, considering the Giants didn't score an.

[Alan Hahn]

Offensive touch, you know what I mean?

[Don Hahn]

We're 35 to 7. It wasn't good.

[Alan Hahn]

You know that's what I'm saying? So this is what, this is what it's setting up for. But see that's not. There's 20 teams that are 500 or better. There's 20 now you would think, oh, that's good. There's 20 out of 32 teams that have a winning at least a 500 record. But that tells you that everybody's really doing well. No, it means everybody's what? Mediocre. Mediocre, Very average. And anything any week can happen. Which is kind of fun if you don't really care in the moment. Having the Panthers, by the way, the Panthers winning that game over there. The Rams are the team that we thought we could all trust right now. They had to come east and sometimes that can affect them. Yes, but like to me the Rams were the team that I started to believe in and then you realize they're playing the Panthers who are like they have been David versus Goliath a lot of times this season where they are overcoming big spreads, especially at home. They don't lose back to back games and you don't see that coming because you just still think Carolina, Bryce Young, they're not that good. But you're realizing they're not that good, but they're not awful anymore.

[Don Hahn]

But somebody's got to win that division, and it's going to be, you know, either Carolina coming out of nowhere with a quarterback that was, you know, almost out of a job. And, you know, and then you've got Tampa, who looked at the beginning of the season like a juggernaut, even though they won yesterday as a team that, you know, is all banged up and not playing particularly well. But. But somebody's going to have to win that division. I mean, some. Maybe something will change in the next month and we'll feel different going into the playoffs. And good for the Bears. You know, they're very likable team. They obviously got it right with their coach. Them sitting is the 1 seed in the NFC. How crazy is that? When the packers were labeled as the team that was going to go to the super bowl and the Eagles were the defending super bowl champions. And here we are on December 1st, and the Chicago Bears are a 1 seed in the NFC.

[Alan Hahn]

With a coach again. I always watch this stuff through the. Again through the lens of a New Yorker, and you look at what Bears do, they got the best coordinator available. Ben Johnson was somebody that everybody was hopping for as a. As a coordinator. They want to make him a hire. He waited because the year prior to that, there were jobs that were open for him, and he just. He did not want to be in the process. He also told the Giants, thanks, but no thanks. Think about that for a minute. Oh, no, the Jets, I'm sorry. Thanks, but no thanks. And yet he goes there and he gets that thing right. A place that they can never get right. Like, it says a lot about. Sometimes it is the hot coordinator versus the experienced coach. It's crazy. But the jets got their. Their coach in Aaron Glenn. And Aaron Glenn, he's got to start proving something right. Right? So what do we get out of the jets beating a Falcons team that just finds ways to lose? Almost like the Giants do. They. They really do find ways to lose.

[Don Hahn]

They do.

[Alan Hahn]

They have leads and they blow them all the time. But the jets win a game at the gun, they get the kick.

[Don Hahn]

And.

[Alan Hahn]

And for me, I like, you know, we always joke about there's no movement. Like, I'm like, all right, that's cool. Like, I looked at it.

[Don Hahn]

I just.

[Alan Hahn]

I watched the game end and I just like, all right, that's cool. Like, that's cool. It doesn't bother me they won. It doesn't mean anything to me that they lost like that, that, that they won a game. And maybe there's some positive momentum happening because you got, you know, those two wide receivers that Muji went and traded for that almost felt like throw ins and trades that he made that, you know, showing out a little bit. Tyrod Taylor showing you that if you have a quarterback that actually throw the football, you can move the, move the ball down the field and do some things right. I don't like, like the fact that I'm being told, well, you know, they're really playing hard for Aaron Glenn now. That doesn't do it for me, Don. I can't feel anything until we see what happens with these picks in the off season and what kind of quarterback you get. I don't know how Aaron Glenn proves anything right now by winning games. I'm not mad at it. I'm just saying I don't know what. It's. What I'm supposed to overreact. How am I supposed to react? Some people are reacting to this.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, I don't think you should be jumping up and down. I told you the story with my dad in 83 when Neil O' Donohue missed a chip shot field goal and the Giants tied the Cardinals on Monday Night Football. And I was jumping up and down and my dad said, what are you doing? You're celebrating a tie. What's the matter with you? I'm not telling you to jump up and down. That they won their third game of the season and are 3 and 9 and beat the lousy Falcons in the rain in a 75% empty stadium.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Watch the fish day. But I don't understand the people like pumping their fist. Had, had Nick missed the field goal. Nick Falk misses the field goal and you lose the game. Like you know, Rick DiPietro, like rooting for them to lose. I don't get that either. I'm not saying you gotta have movement. It's a lost season. But I had said it about a month ago that the reason you root for the jets to win is because you want to see it work with Aaron Glenn, because he's not going anywhere. Now if you're rooting for him to get fired, it's a different story. He's not going to get fired. He's in year one of a five year contract. He's not getting fired. So you want to see this work and I'm sorry, people don't pretend that you know Football more than you actually do. Okay, alright. This whole idea that it can look good and lose to look good for the Giants, that they're good for three and a half quarters and then blow double digit leads in the fourth quarter. You know what looks good? Winning looks good. All right, so let's not pretend that we know so much that you can lose games again, high draft picks, but yet still save your coach and still believe you're moving in the right direction. The only way to move in the right direction is to win. You saw the way those players reacted when they won the game. It matters to them. You root for them. They're, they're working their ass off and they're playing for him because that was really all Aaron Glenn could do. He doesn't have a ton of talent. What talent they had they traded away. So the one thing he needed to prove is I can rally these troops around. It's so easy to tuck their tail between their legs and say the season's over. We're tanking for a draft pick. We've got no quarterback. The quarterbacks we do have stink. We just traded our best players away and he's got them playing. And message goes around the league like, hey, hey, Aaron Glenn's a cool guy to play for. I want to play for that guy. Look how hard those players work for him. Because you are putting an audition out to try to win free agents over to try to get people to want to join your team. And the only way you do that is to go out there and try and to win games. And as much as you want the higher draft pick, this is not a draft for that anyway. Allen, you want to just see that it's going to work. You want to see if it works for the coach, you want to make it attractive. But for players to come play here, and they had every reason, every single player there had a reason to say, you know what? Blank the Jets, I'm getting out of here, I don't want to be here. This is a losing organization. And since that trade, they've come to play, they've played hard, they've lost because they're not talented enough. And then yesterday they score a late touchdown, they get the field goal late in the game to win. That's a good thing, people. That's big. Better than maybe going from six to fourth with the pick and not even knowing who the hell you're going to be drafting anyway. You want to change your culture, you want to change the image of your team. It's not about, oh Playing well and losing games. It's about winning games. And they are. And they've done that the last couple. That's what you want to see happen the rest of the way.

[Alan Hahn]

You have also the parallels that Aaron Glenn had when he was in Detroit. They started out right, that regime with Dan Campbell. They started out awful. Oh, 10 and one, right? Yes. They get to week, let's see, they got to week 13, got their first win. They finished the season three with three wins and three losses. Three and three in their last six games. Right. And they all point to that later. Now that you can at the time, because as I said, you're as you're watching it in real time, you can't possibly see tangible reasons because some of these players are playing hard because they have to. These aren't star players. These aren't high level players. He's playing hardworking guys that are trying to make a name for themselves in the league. You know, again, Mechi Mitchell, these are guys that are also trying to prove themselves now. They're getting opportunities to play where in previous spots they didn't. So you're taking advantage of a little desperation from some guys. But it doesn't mean you overlook the fact, and I don't want to do that, that the jets have won three of the last five. They have done that schedule might have made it easier for them. Whatever you want to say, it's fine because they looked awful against the Ravens. We know this. They didn't look good against New England, another good team. But they have won three of the last five and that's all Aaron Glenn could do right now is tack that up on the, on the, in the locker room and just keep his guys engaged to the end because it has been depressing. But I still say the carryover like what you saw Detroit have from that awful with ended 313 and 1. But they were oh, 10 and 1 to start. But 313 and 1 turn into 9 and 8 the next season. And that's and that's to me when you start to see the tangible turn and the change and everything else. But you got to remember that season started 1:6. So, you know this idea that, you know, we all joke about the how long it takes a battleship to turn in the water. That's a real thing. So 1 and 6 turned into 9 and 8 because they finally really clicked later that second season. So everything is going to depend on what they do this off season. But any momentum they build right now is good for. And look, it's good For Aaron Glenn, it's important for him. It's good for season tickets and ticket sales for the file for the next year. Because why the hell would you buy tickets to the jets right now? And like you said, anybody that they're trying to target, especially if they're trying to find a quarterback, right, that they want to know, we're not. I'm not going to a place that is a. You know, is a. It's quicksand. I got to go to somewhere where. All right, you know what? I think they've got. So they got a little foundation built there, and now we've got to grow from. From whatever they finished the season on. That's all I got. But I can't give you more than. I can't give you sunshine or rainbows right now.

[Don Hahn]

No, there's no sunshine and rainbows. But there are baby steps forward that you can take. And yeah, players have a reason to play, because whether it's to stay with the jets or get something on film to go someplace else, the motivation is always to play hard. But how's Breece hall played? Does Breece hall look like a guy that's quit even though everybody figured all this guy's not going to want to be here? He wanted to get traded. He didn't get his contract. And yet I saw him on the sidelines devastated in Baltimore when he fumbled the game away.

[Alan Hahn]

And who put his arm around him right away?

[Don Hahn]

Right, Exactly. Glenn. And then. And then, you know, 60 yards and a touchdown. Not. Not great stats, but again, not. Doesn't look like a kid that's quit at all. And then you see that from afar and you go, I want to play for that guy. His team didn't quit on him. He's got nothing going for him this year. And yet they play hard and he's getting the most out of them. Maybe I want to go play there. I'm not trying to tell Jet fans that what's happened lately is some sort of a miracle or epiphany and everything's going to come together. But for what's been a really sad decade and a half and what has really been overall, a very sad season, I think there's silver linings to build on. And the way you build on those. Those building blocks are W's. I'm sorry. I understand the logic of finishing with the worst record and getting the better draft pick, even if it's not a quarterback, but these are the things that you build towards to try to get out from under. And there's Several reasons why. And I think it's important to get those wins and important to continue to win. Same with the Giants. They have their quarterback but you know they will lose out and maybe get a better pick. But no, I want to see this kid win games. I want to see him go out there on national television and end the Patriots 10 game winning streak. Because it builds something, whether it's for Kafka or not. Just build to move forward, to see that the moves that you're making are working. I'm sorry. We grade everything in every sport, Allen. Not by style points, not by anything else. But did you win the game? How many wins did you have? That is the ultimate way to be able to measure if it's working or not. Let's not pretend that it's anything other than that.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, on the giant side of things, we'll get to. Because they played tonight, Monday Night Football tonight in New Way England. They haven't won a road game in forever. 11 straight they've lost on the road. So these are all for me about Jackson Dart and his continued ascension as the most important player on the Giants roster. Right. Like these are. That's why it matters. Not, not positioning for draft picks and everything else, but just to get back to the Jets. And the point you were making on them is that this is winning right now is most important to Aaron Glenn than anybody else, anyone else. Because Justin Fields has nothing left to play for and that's he's not playing. They pulled the plug on him and they had to. So it was really no one else were winning matters the most except for Aaron Glenn because this is his first season and some people were wondering if this guy can even coach. Did they make a terrible decision in hiring this guy and he's had to navigate rough waters from the start and navigate a lot of things, make mistakes, which we've seen him do in the media, but then find a way to start reaching some players and getting something out of it. So people at the end of the season can say, well you know what? Aaron Glenn started to figure it out at the end of the year and now there's a reason to think that maybe he can develop into a great coach. But as you said he said it about building on this. I said they won three of the last five games. That's not nothing. And Aaron Glenn believes it is.

[Don Hahn]

Building the grit that we've been talking about for some time and our guys being able to just gut this game out. I keep saying there's no quitting these guys, these Guys understand exactly what we're trying to build. And listen, even though we have this long range vision of what we're trying to get to the now is what's important for all guys to continue to understand. Man, how do you win games, especially in situations like this?

[Alan Hahn]

So he's staying positive. I'm not being. I don't. We got called to get to it. 800 now. 193776 and Don, I'm not trying to be negative. I think what I was saying was, is I'm feeling nothing because I just feel like you can't really see it like clearly until the off season when the draft picks come into play and what does Muji do with them? And Muji, by the way, is showing you that what he did at the deadline, you know, it was pretty good. Like not only just getting the picks, but everything else that he did. A couple players that are considered throw ins that have turned into useful guys that are interesting to watch. This is what I mean by the build forward is what I'm most like. I can't almost now. You know what this is doing. It's making me even look forward to getting to March and April and seeing what they do to rebuild and build up a roster. And then the huge hole, gaping hole that they have a quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

All right, let me, let me go there. If the super bowl is your honeymoon, okay, like, that's the Super Bowl. Consummating the marriage is the super bowl championship, okay? You're in the courting stage right now. You're at the bar, you're getting drinks, right? So you're a long way from consummating this marriage. All right? But still, what happens while you're getting drinks and you're just meeting, that's important too. You know, the, the end of the first or second date of. All right. Is there going to be another date? Did I get her number or did we make plans for the next date? That's where you are with the jets right now. So listen, those are things not exactly to go crazy and celebrate that you got her number and that you've decided to go to the movies the next Saturday. It's all little steps towards what you hope one day is going to be. That's the woman that you marry. That's what you're going to get to.

[Alan Hahn]

That's your Super Bowl. Didn't we have this with Robert Sala? Didn't he have guys playing hard? Didn't we have all that? We had that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. But again, I'm not telling you it's going to work, Alan. See, that's the problem. I can't make you any assurances. You're gonna have to take what little celebrations there are to take and hope. I know you hate that word, that it is going to get there, but there's progress. You're seeing tangible progress. All right, now we'll see if there's going to be those moments where it falls apart. And I wouldn't be telling you this if this was year three of the five year contract for. For. For Glenn. But with Salah, you know, the first year, you win seven games, but, you know, it didn't look great, but it was okay. And then you never got the steps forward. Kept getting no steps backwards. You're still going to need a quarterback. You're still going to need to draft well. You're still going to need to build talent and all that. But right now all you have is, do I have a coach? And you're starting to see signs that maybe, yes, you do. When earlier in the season, people wanted him fired. Done. He can't coach. He has no clue. He doesn't know what he's doing. You're not hearing that anymore, are you? All right, you may not be hearing praise, but you're not hearing this guy's clueless. Now you're starting to see that maybe you're progressing forward. It's small little increments of success, Alan. Nothing to get excited about, but you're stepping forward. There's things that are working, but I can't. Can't guarantee it's gonna work, Alan. My history tells you it's probably not going to, but you got. If you're a fan, you got to hold on to something. And I think what you're holding on to is not nothing. I don't think these are made up things. They're not. This is a coach that had played here. They've invested a big contract in him, and it looks like it's starting to work. No. No parade, but, you know, can you at least get a little bit. A little smile on your face? Can I see it? Like a smirk, something?

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Don Hahn]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

Not until you get a call back. Well, because we've been here, you said it, and it's Shawshank Redemption again. Hope will drive a man insane. It's a dangerous thing. And when you've seen. The problem is this, is that if there's been a hit like in New England, you had enough history to believe that, you know, okay, they went through a lull. They thought they had something. Mac Jones, that didn't turn into something. They drafted another quarterback this kid's hitting. They bring in a coach that has blood in the ground and now you have like, okay, like you're a Patriots fan. You have every reason to believe here. Look at Detroit, by the way, one last thing. We have tons of calls to get to 800-9193776 on this, but I just want to leave it this Detroit had hope. They thought they turned it around. They got a 15 win season. They had a chance to go to the NFC Championship game. They got smoked at home by the Commanders. They're 7 and 5 this season. Hope will drive a man insane.

[Don Hahn]

How about, forget hope? How about progress?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, well, that's. Look, if that's what we want to do is gold star the fact that this thing didn't circle the drain all the way to the end, then let's do that. But I know jets fans want to have something hold on to. They have to. So I want to give them that opportunity because I'm not trying to be negative. I guess my problem is, is that I'm having a hard time searching through the weeds to find the positive. I'm just still sort of checked out and I don't like it because I did watch the end of that game and I had a smile on my face. They won.

[Don Hahn]

That's something.

[Alan Hahn]

And I said, well, that's three out of five.

[Don Hahn]

That's something.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's it. There was nothing more after that. You know what I mean? Like, you know sometimes when your team wins, you carry it for a couple of days. That didn't happen here. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. One of the perks about having four.

[Don Hahn]

Kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

The Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Why are we hearing the wall? I like it or there's something.

[Alan Hahn]

I just. I love this as a. Like, this, to me, rivals the Alan Parsons project. Bulls. Okay. Because it. It starts like. It feels like it's about to, like, set you up for, like, a big intro. Big. And then it leads into something completely different. Right, Right.

[Don Hahn]

The eye in the sky.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, Right. Eye in the sky. So I don't know. I think this goes. Right. This is right up there. Is one of those. That could be a jock jam if it didn't transform into a different song completely.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. I didn't know what Jacob's motivation was.

[Alan Hahn]

What is it? What is the motivation there no real reason I came on and shuffle. I feel like these are one of.

[Don Hahn]

Those songs like you drive fast in a car.

[Alan Hahn]

You just do out of.

[Don Hahn]

On the road.

[Alan Hahn]

There's some little. That is true. You are breaking laws. A little linen Skinner, things like that, you know. Good.

[Don Hahn]

All right, now, I will say that obviously Dark side of the Moon is their greatest album.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

But I remember in 79, when the wall came out, there was like, nothing bigger.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I know that.

[Don Hahn]

11. At the time, I was just getting in the rock and roll. And that album was just unreal how successful it was. Everybody was buying it. Great stories. It was just a phenomenal album.

[Alan Hahn]

We. I mean, I was younger.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So very impressionable. Right. And the first time I heard it and hearing the kids, you know, the. The children singing it with. With the British accent. So that's all we would do is just copy the kids singing it. Right.

[Don Hahn]

No, it was. It was a big deal. So I was just wondering. It was. Was it an. Something. Because usually Jacob has some kind of background behind him.

[Alan Hahn]

No, he said he was just feeling it. That's what I like about Jake is that he. You know, if he's feeling fine, that's. We're gonna play.

[Don Hahn]

That's good.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, we're feeling. Tomorrow is. We're feeling a little NHL.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Tomorrow we're gonna be at the NHL. NHL shop. Now, for those who understand, this is. If you're at Penn Station, it's like two blocks over. If you're in Moynihan, it's one block. It's across the street. It's across ninth Avenue. So it's right there. It's an easy place to access. It's a really cool spot over there. If you haven't been over there yet, it's Manhattan West Plaza is what they call in it. But It's. It's. It's 9th Avenue. And Mark Messier is gonna hang out with Us as well. So we're doing our show, the full show, right at NHL Shop, which is right there, Manhattan West Plaza. It's literally a block or two from the Garden. And talking all things NHL, we got Mark Messier gonna hang out with us. Bill Daley, right, the NHL deputy commissioner.

[Don Hahn]

Is going to be with us as well, who might very well become the commissioner of the league. Yeah, he's definitely a candidate to replace Gary when Gary ever decides to step down. And and The Rangers at 7 o' clock are at the Garden to take on the Dallas Stars. So if you're going to the game.

[Alan Hahn]

Please come hang out, come a little.

[Don Hahn]

Earlier, swing by, get to see Mark Messier, get to see us and hang out. And because the Knicks are playing at eight, right. That game is going to be on our air. So we'll be on till seven. So hang out until basically puck drop it to go check out the game. It's with what minute walk?

[Alan Hahn]

Literally five minute walk.

[Don Hahn]

Come on, man.

[Alan Hahn]

Well worth your time. And we'll be there. So again, join us from the NHL shop in Manhattan West Plaza. It's a block or two from the garden. It's tomorrow 3 to 6:30 is our show talking all things NHL, Mark Messi with us, Bill Daly with us, and more. I heard there's gonna be a whole bunch of game seven stuff going on there as well. My guy Johnny Laz is going to be there. So it's all Powered by Games apparel. Yeah, yeah. They launch their new assortment in the NHL shop nyc. So you want to check out all the game seven stuff that they'll be selling because it is the holiday season. Those don't miss us live tomorrow from the NHL shop in Manhattan. We got calls. Donnie 800-93776 on the jets before we get into the Giants in their game tonight, Monday Night Football. We begin with Charles in New Jersey. Go ahead, Charles.

[Caller]

Hey, what's going on, guys? Thanks so much for taking my call. What's up, Alan? I really need, you know, you and sports fans like you to really take a step back and like smell the roses sometimes and appreciate when your team actually does win, no matter what situation it is because it's hard to do. And, and I'm not saying it because like I'm like I'm sitting on some high horse. I am in fact, a Lion fan and I've been one my entire life. So I know what it feels like to be on that downward skid and eventually it does turn around. Well, I kind of got to embrace.

[Alan Hahn]

Every moment Well, I will. Charles, here's the problem. What moment are we in right now? Like, what roses are there to smell right now? There's really nothing right now. I am not again. I'm not kicking dirt on it. I'm just kind of watching with apathy a little bit. That's all it is. It's not like I'm hating on it. I want it to work. My God, it's been 15 years. Somebody's got to figure it out. But I just, you know, if you're expecting me to start shaking pom poms and chanting JBTs, that'd be silly.

[Don Hahn]

Silly. But I think you're allowed to be happy. And I guess the argument that I have.

[Alan Hahn]

Nick Folk made a field goal, and I smiled and I walked away and I went.

[Don Hahn]

And that's all deserved, but at least a smile as opposed to, you know, you know, prison sex over the last 10, you know, 15 years. Right? So, you know, you take a smile, you take whatever little victories you get. All right?

[Alan Hahn]

So, you know, it's better than when I was watching Red Zone in October and I was feeling like it was like, can I be in this party?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, you'll finally. Right, Exactly. You watch all these games, and it's like you're watching. You're watching your football game in slow motion. The Giants, too. You actually had a fun game, a thrilling game. Vilma said it afterward, like, this is a great game. Yeah, it's a good football game. You're on the winning side of it. But we get corrupted by, you know, where you're gonna pick in the draft and. And all this other stuff.

[Alan Hahn]

The quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but you know, all that in due time. Believe me, there's been plenty of quarterbacks. Drake. May I win the mvp? He wasn't the first overall pick in the draft we talked about. My home was going 10. All right, so you'll get there, but one of the other important aspects is do you have a coach? So these are all little baby steps to eventually getting.

[Alan Hahn]

That's the first thing that you have to do. That's the first thing you want to walk. If you can leave this season and say, you know what? I think Aaron Glenn's got it. They just got to get him some talent. That's what I want to believe when the season's over and there's still more games to play. Right. Pete in Brooklyn. Pete, you're up next.

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Pete from Brooklyn Bidders, jets fan since 1972. Alan, I hear you, but I don't understand you. You got to understand you play to win the game. My son was in the house yesterday and I heard him screaming when the jets almost took that kickoff or. And ran it back for a touchdown. At this point in time, we don't know what's Aaron Glenn, what's in store for Aaron Glenn and his coaching staff. But they are making progress, it seems right now we have, we are. Like we said, we need a quarterback. So that's, that's coming. We don't know how it's going to come, if it's going to come in this draft pick coming up next year or the next draft, or if they're going to make a move to use those number ones to trade with somebody else to get a quarterback. But the fact of the matter is I'm, I'm not losing faith. I've been here all this time just like you are. And Alan, you, you've been around. I mean, when was the last time the Knicks won an NBA championship? 1972. 73.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And you are still a Knicks fan.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, well, first, let's, let's first get to some reality. The Knicks have been bad for many years, but I was on a broadcast of their game, so I had to stay connected to them because of that. So, you know, I'm not a fan in that. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm covering it, talking about it, waiting for the day, just like it's very similar. I hate to make the parallel, but I will. The Knicks were bad for a long time and all I kept saying was if they could just get a point guard, they got to get a guard. They got to get a point guard. Then Jalen Brunson arrived and everything changed. Right? And now they are heading in the right direction. Everything's going the right way. It's starting to look like it's supposed to their function like a real franchise. So for me, I look at the jets and I keep saying, until they get a quarterback, I don't think anything changes. And that's what I'm waiting for. So if that happens, you will hear me be a lot happier. Like, I'm almost like, done. I watch Jackson Dart and the Giants and that's why, like, I'm like, how could, how could you not want to be more excited tonight as a Giants and to watch this game? Because number one, it's on national tv. Number two, it's against the Patriots. He had some little bit of history there. And number three, my guy's back under center and I want the Whole league to be on notice that we got our guy that's gonna play. He's been playing so well, right? We have a chance to win every time this guy's on the field. And this will be fun.

[Don Hahn]

And they didn't have to, you know, get the first overall pick to get it right.

[Alan Hahn]

Great point.

[Don Hahn]

And who knows what ends up happening at the end of the day? If they ended up make. Now, if they make the trade with New England and get Drake may or draft Drake may or draft Daniels, you know, maybe then they wouldn't need Dart, but maybe when the dust all settles at the end of the day, maybe Dart turns out to be the best of all of them and they traded back into the first round to get him at what, 25. So there are ways to do it. Instead of just throwing seasons away and not celebrating your team winning, hoping that Mendoza is the guy when there's not a lot of people saying that he's definitely going to be the guy. The guy that definitely was going to be the guy. Trevor Lawrence, you know, he's. He's been fine, but certainly not what everybody thought he was going to be supposed to be. Generational draft. He's supposed to be, you know, a can't miss. And there's been a lot of misses, a lot of drops, a lot of errant throws. And maybe this will finally be the year that it happens for him. I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

But they got, they get. They got a big one now, right? Isn't it. Isn't it? Colts, Jacksonville this weekend. Right now that's a huge game. Now one more on the jets here, Mike and Scott's planes. Mike.

[Caller]

What's up, guys? So here's the thing. There's three main positive steps that they've taken. Number one, they have all the cap space in the world. Number two, they have a ridiculous amount of draft picks. And number three, they have time. There's no rush right now. The jets have been bad for a long time. Being bad for another year or so is not going to end the world for Jet fans. They need to do this right. And this feels like they're doing it right. This never feels this way for the jets, ever. They're always making stumbling, bumbling mistakes. Two main points. One, the receiving. Second receiver. Looks like we may have actually found someone. Number two, the, the, the trades that they made with the savvy to not have that money hit them with Sauce Gardener and with. What's his name, Quinton, Quinn and Williams, like unbelievable savviness that we never Ever, ever have. Let's just be happy that we're making little steps. And one last point, Don. You made a tool reference. You guys were talking about tool last week. You just said prison sex. You made a tool reference without even trying it. You guys have a great day.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks, man.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I'm a big, certainly a big fan, but I.

[Alan Hahn]

You were very careful with your words there and I appreciate that. Like, Mike needs to understand that I already pointed out the fact that, like what Darren Muji did at the trade deadline.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And how we're seeing the throw in, quote, unquote, throw in pieces. And now you're going, okay, all right. There's something there. That was pretty. That was pretty savvy. That's pretty good. Now let's see what he does with these picks. That's why I said I am looking right. Like, you know, this is as, this is as excited as I've been as a Jets fan. I'm looking forward to, forward to March and April.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But that, but, but leave that aside.

[Alan Hahn]

I never felt like that you can't.

[Don Hahn]

Do anything about that until you get to the off season.

[Alan Hahn]

I get it.

[Don Hahn]

But there's still important things happening in season because none of this cap space, none of these picks and, and none of the moves that they could set them up if they don't have the quarterback and they don't have the coach. All right.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And the quarterback, I think we all agree, isn't necessarily in this draft, but they might have the coach. Now, I'm not sold yet either. You know, winning three out of five and you know, beating the Ohio teams and Atlanta. Exactly. Is not a needle mover, especially to you, Allen. But it's a step in the right direction to find out, do I have a coach? Because all this stuff is not going to make any sense unless you have a coach and a quarterback. And right now it's year one of a five year contract for Glenn. So you're hoping at least one of those pieces might already be in place.

[Alan Hahn]

Speaking of coach, the Giants don't have a coach, at least not for next season. But could one become available? There's a story brewing in the NFL that we need to get into. And the Giants and the Patriots tonight on Monday Night Football as well. Your call Tonight now at 93776. Don Han Rosenberg, ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move.

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. So Don, as we talked about, this has been a very this was a very interesting weekend for the NFL on many levels. Each week though, always has its own drama and stories, but because this one started with a big slate on Thanksgiving which, by the way, pretty entertaining games on Thanksgiving. They were all pretty good. Even though it didn't work my way, I went open. Oh, and three.

[Don Hahn]

Man, what a date.

[Alan Hahn]

I was like, come on, nobody wants to help me. And I told you, See, you knew that the Lions and Cowboys don't win on the same day. So when the Lions lost, I'm like, well, now I know. I know. It was.

[Don Hahn]

It was. Listen, it was tough me for. But still.

[Alan Hahn]

And then the big. The big game Friday, and that was a really, like. If you're a Giants fan or a Cowboys, for anybody that hates the Eagles, what a perfect game that was for you.

[Don Hahn]

Because they're back to being dysfunctional again. And I don't know what's happening. They're still going to probably win the division, although Dallas might make it interesting here. But I don't know what the heck's going on in Philadelphia with the quarterback. And it just. It's just a mess there. Chicago's now the 1 seed in the NFC. I mean, what's happening here? It's pretty incredible.

[Alan Hahn]

I have to correct myself. It felt like a shutout day. I did get the Bengals game. Right, but the problem.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that's right, because I. Because that's. We both had.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but the problem is I made that my one point. So I get like, what. What I got out of that was almost nothing. So that's. That's probably why I was just. By that time, by that point, I was depressed because I really felt good about the first two games and they didn't go my way.

[Don Hahn]

And for the second consecutive year, Cincinnati might put themselves, you know, being three and eight in a position to still make the playoffs. It is pretty. That's why when you have the quarterback.

[Alan Hahn]

Donnie, when you have the quarterback. But meanwhile, what came out of the weekend, to me, the biggest story of all was the fact that something that has been brewing in Pittsburgh for years really reared its ugly head in what was an ugly ending in a Steelers loss, that the crowd was chanting, fire Tomlin. And it was audible in the game.

[Don Hahn]

Incredible.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's. That's not. Leads you to. First of all, crowd chants don't lead to coaches being fired. A lot of times, though, with bad franchises, owners hear it, they get upset, they start mulling about. And next thing you know, the coach is going to get fired. But it's Mike Tomlin who's been there forever, and it's also the Pittsburgh Steelers who've had. Is it three coaches in the last 40 years, right?

[Don Hahn]

They have not really Gone through Noel. First year was 69.

[Alan Hahn]

God, more than four.

[Don Hahn]

So, yeah, 50 years. Three coaches in over 50.

[Alan Hahn]

Cower was in between. And then Tomlin, Cower and Thomas.

[Don Hahn]

So three coaches. Well, I was born in 68. Said 56 years.

[Alan Hahn]

Damn. I didn't realize.

[Don Hahn]

It's incredible.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm, like thinking, 40. Is it like four, 56 years. So you don't expect. Like, you don't expect an overreaction. But this is. I've never heard it. It's that noticeable and that dramatic. And Mike, just real quick, Mike Tomlin heard it and didn't. Didn't pretend that he didn't. I don't know how restless and frustrated I was. And so I assume they were in the same state we were in. He heard it.

[Don Hahn]

No, it's. It's kind of like Boone with the Yankees in the sense that a lot of people would love to have the Yankees problems of finishing above.500 every year, going to the playoffs, but it's been so long since they won a playoff game, and I think the fans are just tired of, oh, well, we finished nine and eight every year. And this year they go out and get the quarterback. And it is odd from afar, especially here in New York, to see fans chanting for a coach's job when they drop to 6 and 6 and are still very much alive for a playoff spot. But I think those fans are savvy enough to realize that it's just not working to the level that they expect. And that was the most rushing yards they allowed at the new stadium, which opened in 2001, and it was the most yards allowed on the ground by a Pittsburgh team since 1975.

[Alan Hahn]

By the same team. The Bill.

[Don Hahn]

By the same team.

[Alan Hahn]

O.J. simpson.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, O.J. simpson. I think. I think they put it like 320.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

That day, you know, so not quite as bad. But when you do something negative for the first time in 50 years, and it looks a lot like it's looked for the last decade, where you finish slightly above.500, you sneak into the playoffs, you lose your first playoff game. It's been a decade since they won. I can understand the frustration now. Would I take him as my coach? I would, because I'm not in, you know, the Steeler Land where, you know, I'd like to finish above.500, I'd like to make the playoffs again, but I can understand their frustration. So it's not. It's not like the Yankees, where our standard is, you know, winning or death. But I. I can understand when it's been a decade of the exact same thing every single year that the frustration is finally mounting. And the one thing they thought they had in their pocket, a great defense, is getting gouged on the ground. I mean, the Bills walked into that game last night, Al, with zero intention to throw the ball downfield. Didn't have to.

[Alan Hahn]

It's almost like they ran the same play.

[Don Hahn]

Same play, stop it. And they knew that Pittsburgh wouldn't stop it. So, yeah, they got a little trouble with the turnover early. And that's something that's been a bugaboo for the Bills. They've turned the ball over, I think 12 times in the, like, the last four games or something. Ridiculous. But even Pittsburgh couldn't take advantage of those turnovers. And once Pittsburgh didn't score off that interception by Allen on that first drive, you felt like eventually they're going to cave. And they did given up 21 straight points in the second half. So even though you lost to a team that's better than you, you're still very much alive and still a.500 team going into week 14. It just. I can understand a Steeler fan, Sam. I've seen this movie. I see how it ends. For the last decade, we got to try to Change something up.

[Alan Hahn]

19 seasons, not. Not once, a losing record. They haven't had a losing record. I mean, yeah. In his entire career. And right now it's six and six. That's. That's on the verge. So if you're a Giants fan and you have a job open, aren't you saying to yourself, oh, please do us a favor and fire him. Please do us a favor and make him available. Adam Schefter on Get up this morning caught my attention when he gave, like his. His again informed opinion on what could.

[Don Hahn]

Happen in Pittsburgh, that Mike Tomlin's going to leave. It will be his decision, and they'll come to a meeting and decide mutually that he should move on. And if that were the case, he would be going away the number one head coaching candidate. He could be the top head coaching candidate. He could be the number one broadcasting candidate. He could do whatever he wants. But we'll see if this is the time. The fans want that because they're tired of the fact that the Steelers haven't won a playoff game since 2016. Think about that in this sport. Yeah. How can you go that long without winning a playoff game and hold on to your job? On the other hand, you could say, well, he's never had a losing season.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And how impressive is that? So there's the dichotomy, but they're not.

[Alan Hahn]

Going to fire him. So Shefty said it's not that Tomlin would be fired, but there is that caveat of it at the end of the season if they both feel like it's time to move on. Tomlin feels that way and the Steelers feel that way. Mike Tomlin would become a coaching candidate, a free agent immediately. And if you're the Giants, it has to be done. It has to be the only play you want to make.

[Don Hahn]

And in both things can be right. Because I know Steeler fans, I'm very good friends. Carmine, who I grew up with, big Steeler fan and he wants Tomlin out and Danny from Long island calls all the time. Both could be true. It's time for them to move on in Pittsburgh, but it could still work someplace else, especially with the Giants, who are trying to get to the consistency that Pittsburgh has had. Now we may fast forward five years from now and I'm banging my head against the wall going, I can't believe we can't get anywhere with Tomlin. But right now I need to get out of the muck and the mire that is the Giants organization right now. And I think Tomlin would add that kind of stability and they've got the quarterback and he obviously has a defensive sensibility, which is where the Giants need to improve. Improve. Right. They're going to be looking for a decoordinator. So I'm sure there'd be plenty of guys that he would love to be able to tap into with his expertise to try to improve that defense. So I think both could be true. His time in Pittsburgh is over. Steeler fans are going to get their wish. But I of the candidates that are out there, Allen that it could be available. If Tomlin's available, tell me who you would want above, above him that has that kind of a resume.

[Alan Hahn]

800-919-3776 do you agree or disagree? Because you're it's bubbling in Pittsburgh and when it gets where there's smoke, there's fire. And so right now we're seeing the smoke coming up in Pittsburgh. If Mike Tomlin does at the end of this season become available, is he the first and only call the Giants should make? Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 inch ESPN. The ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.