Don Hahn (1:30)

Without cloud in the sky.

Rosenberg (1:32)

Look at you.

Don Hahn (1:32)

Went for a nice walk. I went up in the arch for the first time a few times, but never went up in the arch. And it's quite the experience. If you're claustrophobic or afraid of heights, it's not for you.

Rosenberg (1:43)

Okay, but what is it then? Like, I never went in it. I, I've been through it, around it, but not in it.

Peter (1:52)

I've been, I've stayed right next to it. Never been up there.

Rosenberg (1:55)

So what, what is the. How does that work?

Don Hahn (1:58)

Well, you walk in there and it's got a nice museum on the history of going out west. And then you get into. There's eight little pods you get into that fit five people snugly. And then you go a four minute ride up to the top of the arch. You get to hang out at the top of the arch and see all the sights of St. Louis and the Mississippi River.

Peter (2:20)

Ah, the old Mississippi.

Don Hahn (2:22)

The old mix.

Rosenberg (2:23)

The mighty old man.

Don Hahn (2:28)

Crooked eye eye. Crooked eye, Crooked eye. Humpback eye that's just. And then you take a three minute.

Peter (2:34)

Sorry, go ahead, Don.

Don Hahn (2:35)

Then you take a three minute ride down. So that's. It was. It was cool.

Rosenberg (2:40)

I'm glad I did time.

Don Hahn (2:41)

I like it every time on the Social.

Peter (2:45)

Every time I think about the Arch and all I think about is vacation when they see it. And Clark goes, ah, the St. Louis Arch. That's 630ft high and that's 63 stories to you and me. And the kid goes, or Audrey or one of them goes, could we go up? And he goes, no. And then that's right back to back with the mighty Mississippi.

Rosenberg (3:14)

The old miss, the old man, he just says, there's. Clark Griswold is one of the great characters in cinema.

Peter (3:26)

There's no question. I mean, listen, people that are a few years younger than me, I will argue with them about how highly they place Christmas or even Vegas for some. For me, those are.

Don Hahn (3:39)

I love them.

Peter (3:40)

I love them all. But for me, 1. Just vacation is one of the greatest comedies of all time. Everything that came afterwards, there's lots of good stuff in it. But that first one, guys, you're talking about, to me, Mount Rushmore of comedy, for me, probably Vacation.

Rosenberg (3:55)

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's.

Don Hahn (3:56)

Right. Original, Terrific. Yeah.

Rosenberg (3:58)

That's not even.

Don Hahn (4:00)

And it just put the other ones in jeopardy. Right, because it's so classic. Like, the Christmas vacation is fine. European Vacation was fine.

Rosenberg (4:09)

It was all right. Had moments.

Peter (4:10)

European Vacation has its parts for. It's close, but.

Don Hahn (4:14)

And as a standalone, they're. They're good, solid comedies, but compare it to the original and it pales in comparison.

Rosenberg (4:20)

Agree.

Don Hahn (4:22)

So you're not off on that, Peter, thank you.

Peter (4:25)

Thank you. I'm happy to talk about this anytime you want, but that's all I think about. The fact that you're by the Arch and the fact that it's nearly 70, it's nearly 60 in Chicago as we speak.

Rosenberg (4:34)

Wow.

Peter (4:35)

And that is just not going to last by the time I get there. Unfortunately, it. Tomorrow, the fun and games are over. It's, you know, it's not a nightmare, but it's like 27 low, 41 high, which I'm guessing, guys with the, with the. The old lake breeze could feel colder than that.

Rosenberg (4:50)

Lake effect. Yeah.

Peter (4:52)

But today, beautiful day in the Midwest and, you know, our friend Jack Hughes, spending some time in the Midwest, he decided to take a little deviation and hang out in Indianapolis at the common. Pat McAfee.

Rosenberg (5:05)

Hmm.

Don Hahn (5:06)

That's something.

Rosenberg (5:07)

Yeah.

Peter (5:07)

He said no. There's some stuff we should definitely Play at the least in enn. Yeah, I'll definitely play some of the, the stuff that, that Jack had to say.

Don Hahn (5:14)

And it looks like your reports he's going to be try to be on Saturday Night Live. Now we're here in St. Louis because the Devils are playing the blues for a 4 o' clock local, 5 o' clock eastern. So the logistics of can he get back to the city in time to do whatever he's going to do on SNL probably. What do you figure for a 5 o' clock face off Eastern time, wheels up by 9 maybe probably like a 2 hour flights. Probably could get there with at least a significant part of the show left.

Rosenberg (5:45)

11. Yeah. Then you got to get right from where Teterboro, wherever you guys.

Don Hahn (5:49)

No, Newark. So it's not that far.

Rosenberg (5:51)

That's not, that's not hard to do.

Don Hahn (5:52)

They'll probably. So at some point, maybe. Alan, I think you speculated maybe around Weekend Update they'll try to make something

Rosenberg (6:00)

midnight because it would have to be,

Peter (6:02)

it would have to be Weekend Update

Rosenberg (6:04)

and that's usually at midnight, isn't it? Weekend Update.

Peter (6:06)

Right around, right around midnight. 12, 10.

Don Hahn (6:08)

Yeah, listen, there's no time to rehearse a skit or anything. So it'll just be, hey, come out the Weekend Update, ask him a few questions, have some fun. And then. And off you go.

Peter (6:18)

Don, have you ever watched snl? I mean it's not an interview program. They're not going to have. It's if they do anything, it would be the men's USA Hockey team. They'll make a joke and then they'll say and now the men's USA Hockey team. And they'll stand up like Jack or whoever's there will stand up or, or what?

Don Hahn (6:35)

I mean, questions like they might bring them on to the desk to ask something like show face to get a reaction or something like how does it feel when they go. No, but they'd have to.

Peter (6:43)

My point was that would have to all be rehearsed though, because now you're doing a bit. He can't have time for do a bit. This has to be a show and wait. Show the smile. Maybe a joke around the teeth.

Rosenberg (6:52)

Oh, the, the tooth thing for sure.

Peter (6:54)

Tooth. We got a tooth coming up in there.

Rosenberg (6:56)

Yeah, you got to show up. You got to do the dent. This joke for sure. But Don, all of this though, and you said this yesterday, how big is this for the Devils? Like this is, this is tremendous for them. Huge exposure. There's enough people that might get a little more interested in the Devils because of him. It's, it's not nothing, as you guys like to say.

Don Hahn (7:17)

It's, it's a lot of eyeballs. And even last night I thought it was cool. I wasn't surprised by it at all because Ryan Miller went through it in 2010 when he came back winning the silver medal in Vancouver when Buffalo first played in Pittsburgh. But like he got a tremendous ovation, like standing 30 second cheers from the opposition. Like it's wow, that's the cool thing about it. And unfortunately, you know, Devils can't score and they lose, so they're not taking advantage of it as far as like the play on the ice is concerned. But certainly, you know, a lot of eyeballs, a lot of attention on the team and they've got a big seven game homestand coming up after this road trip is over. But we got lots to get to today, guys. But just first of all, a lot of reasons to listen to the Friday show because we've got Knicks go ahead, got talk maybe a little Rangers later on. We also got a big ENN fraud alert Friday as well. So a lot of reasons why people buy at Ramsey Mazda.

Rosenberg (8:08)

You know, he's already on fire lease

Don Hahn (8:11)

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Mike Brown (9:09)

You know, I've never been a guy that puts stock into everything and it's the end of the world if it doesn't happen. This is because a that's not life in general. Things are going to average out to however they need to at the right time. And hopefully after, you know, 70 games or whatever it is, 80 games you feel pretty good where you are going into that postseason.

Don Hahn (9:31)

I spoken like somebody that got beat up against the Cavs, right? Like, oh, it's not a big deal. That seems to be the theme every time they lose a game. Hey, it's a regular season game. Not a big deal. Let's not put a lot of stock in it. That's very strategic to me, Alan, because if you won the game, would you say the same thing?

Rosenberg (9:51)

He's been kind of saying this all along.

Don Hahn (9:52)

The same thing.

Rosenberg (9:53)

Yeah, this was a big Tibbs thing is, he would look at the regular season and he would always say, the idea is to be playing your best at the end of the year. So the whole. Like, he treated the regular season. Now, again, like I said, he never. They never wanted to take a night off. He drove them hard every game. But his whole idea was the season is like the way to develop your way to where you're playing your best at the end of the season. And that's kind of what Mike says here, too. Hopefully, after 70 games or whatever it is, you feel pretty good where you are going into the postseason. And so he's kind of using a tibsism here of. I know we live and die with every game and we want to win every game, but the idea is for us to be playing our best at the end, so we still have time to keep, you know, tinkering and getting it right. This is what you'd expect a coach to say. Now, I believe he did say more, did he not?

Don Hahn (10:51)

Oh, he did say more. He was asked the question, do you still believe this is a championship team as you did after the Cup?

Mike Brown (10:59)

I truly believe it. I truly believe it. Now, having said that, there are things

Don Hahn (11:03)

that gotta go right.

Mike Brown (11:04)

You know, you gotta be injury free. You gotta be playing your best basketball. You have to be connected. The things that I talk about, you gotta sacrifice. If you have guys on your team that aren't sacrificing, you could be in trouble because that will mess with your connectivity, which is huge. You gotta have a competitive spirit. You gotta want to compete every night. And you gotta believe. You gotta keep believing. Even when things are going bad, even when you go through stretches of 2 and 7 or 2 and 9, you gotta believe. Not just in the process, because it is a process, but you gotta believe in each other. And then at the end of the day, in anything you do, starting with me, everybody has to be held accountable.

Rosenberg (11:38)

I see that. That there was a lot there. I don't know if you guys heard it.

Don Hahn (11:42)

I Heard.

Rosenberg (11:43)

I heard a lot of things here.

Don Hahn (11:44)

Well, it sounds, besides the basketball hearing, the same thing. Is that. Is he suggesting there are a few guys on this team that aren't making the sacrifice?

Rosenberg (11:51)

That's what I'm wondering. Like, you have to be connected. You've got to sacrifice. Like you said, the competitive spirit to compete every night. Believe in the process. Like, he's pointing out a lot of things that he's looking for. And I don't know, is he suggesting that he's not seeing it yet? Like, this is an interesting thing, an interesting place they're at right now, guys, my opinion.

Peter (12:21)

Oh, yeah, they're sitting right there on the edge.

Rosenberg (12:24)

What they're sitting on now, the players, the stuff from post game after Cleveland. Also interesting what the players are saying now. We don't have audio of it, but as I'm preparing for a pregame show tonight, I have a lot of it in front of me, so I'll read you guys a couple of quotes and you tell me if any of that stuff stands out. After hearing Mike Brown, Josh Hart said, I think we're still figuring out the style we want to play, the identity we want to play. And then he just said, like, some of the lulls come from that and that we have to collectively figure that out. And then he said, time is of the essence. We need to spend the next 20 or so games really finding our identity and how we want to execute. Towns right now, we're all trying to figure it out. Sounds kind of familiar, right? We're still trying to figure out the system. We're at game 55, guys. We're still trying to figure out the system. He said, the new things we're doing, the nuances that go with it and the changes we're trying to make, it's still a work in progress. Now, he adds, of course, that I know it's in New York and everybody wants it to be done already. People want instant gratification, but we're still trying to figure it out. And then last but not least, Jalen Brunson. We're not trying to be a final product by game 60. I know how good we can be. So I'll point out again, they were 23 and nine on December 29th. They're 14 and 13 since. So they have been a 500 team, essentially, with two, like, with one absolute drought and one run of winning. So it really hasn't been win one, lose one, win one, lose one. They had the two and nine run, and then they had the 10 wins. In 12 run. So it's been pockets here lately with this team. But what are you hearing in the words that the players are saying?

Don Hahn (14:24)

What I'm hearing is that the disconnect is I don't necessarily want to play this way because if it's just about trying to figure it out, Allen, then the record they've had, that average record you just gave would have been at the beginning of the season. And now as we're heading into March, you're 21 and 9. Yeah, but you started 21 and 9 and now you're playing 500 basketball. Now, is that because you're tired after the cup? Is that because you're going into a tougher part of your schedule? Or is it like, hey, I'm. I don't want to play that way? And so that's the disconnect. I. I should be able to know through 60 games what the coach wants. And we should be getting better and better with each game, more and more connected with each game. If we're getting more and more disconnected with each game, it tells me I don't want to play the way you're telling me to play. And I'm trying to convince the coach otherwise. And that's a disconnect.

Rosenberg (15:20)

Yeah. And he's saying you got to sacrifice. He's saying you got to be willing to do things and process. So this does really feel like a team that is not really all on the same page. And I don't know if it's, you know, coach and players are not on the same page. That first year coach now with players who were used to a previous coach this deep into the season, but also

Don Hahn (15:47)

not all, but some wanted the previous coach gone.

Rosenberg (15:50)

Yeah. That. You can't deny that.

Don Hahn (15:53)

Now we have sound from Karl Anthony Towns. I'm not interested in changing my approach to basketball and life.

Karl-Anthony Towns (15:59)

I mean, I stay in the present. I'm not going to. In your question, you're telling me I need to change the way.

Rosenberg (16:05)

No, no, but I'm saying for, for,

Karl-Anthony Towns (16:06)

like I'm not going to have to change how I live and how I approach work and how I approach life because of one instance, you know, that's just a bump in the road. You know, I continue to be myself regardless of, you know, what people say

Rosenberg (16:17)

or what the noise is.

Karl-Anthony Towns (16:18)

I'm going to continue to work on my game. I'm going to continue to be who I am as a person. I'm going to approach life the way I approach it. It's got me this far. It's got me beautiful fiance, got me a great family that's all healthy and happy. And I mean, it's done well. It doesn't need to just always be about basketball. It's got me well in life. It's kept me centered, it's kept me focused, and it's kept me engaged and motivated to continue to attack every day with the same competition and competitive spirit.

Don Hahn (16:42)

Now, what he's talking about, obviously, are the comments from Shaq and not tough enough. Is he too soft?

Rosenberg (16:47)

Right. Well, yeah. Saying. Right.

Peter (16:49)

Saying some people just don't have it. That he just doesn't have that.

Don Hahn (16:53)

But, but, but that attitude that he has sounds like somebody that's committed to a certain way to play basketball. And the way Mike Brown wants to play it is not necessarily the way that he wants to play it. And he doesn't sound like he's willing to. If there's somebody, based off those comments that might not be willing to make those sacrifices, it sounds like it might be him. Hey, this is the way I go about. It's worked out for me so far, so maybe I'm reaching here. But based on how inconsistent his game has been at times, how passive he seems to be, especially in the second half of games, if I had to guess what player might be giving Mike Brown the biggest problem with this disconnect, it sounds like it's Cat.

Rosenberg (17:37)

Yeah, yeah, it definitely does. It's. That's. I really think it starts there. Right. Like the other players and what they're saying. I think it's a reflection of knowing that they're trying to get Towns on board. They're trying to get Towns to get it. To understand it. Right. Like what Hart said sounds a little bit more like, you know, we're still working on. We're trying to figure out the identity we need to be those kind of things. I just feel like he's the last piece, and if they can't get him on board, you really can't. You really wonder whether or not this team can win a playoff series three rounds deep? Because he's got to be. We know how important he is. He's got to be all in or they're in trouble.

Don Hahn (18:26)

But let's really ask the question.

Rosenberg (18:28)

All right?

Don Hahn (18:28)

All right. Forget about the landscape of the Eastern Conference and the Tatum's out and Halliburton's out, and Detroit doesn't have a ton of experience, and Cleveland has no history of winning. Just looking at this team, both of you have been huge basketball fans, Peter. You've got rooted For a championship team. With the Celtics, you saw the 08 title. You saw the title last two years ago. Allen's been around it for a long time. Is this a championship caliber team? Honestly,

Rosenberg (18:58)

in today's NBA anything's possible because there's no dominant teams and the east doesn't have a dominant team. And I've seen this team at its best. It's what Brunson said, like I know how good we can be. We've seen them play at a high level. Which is why I can't say no. I don't see that. And I'm not trying to like, you know, oh well, you do broadcast. No, it has nothing to do with that. No, I'm pretty. I always keep it real with this team because you have to, because everybody sees it. If the Celtics were at full health, I'd tell you I'd have a hard time believing it because they, when they're at full health, they're a machine. But I've seen them beat the spurs like I've seen them have good games against good teams and say that there's something there. I think that's what's the most maddening thing, Don, is because this is not a time, it's not a league with dynasties. The Pacers last year at this time were not a team anybody even thought could be a championship caliber team. They were getting it right late in the year, but it took them all year to get right. But once they did, they clicked at the right time. They did it in the playoffs and they got themselves to seventh game. Their best player blew out his Achilles. They had a chance to win a championship. So I think in today's NBA, as long as you're good enough to get there and they are, I can't say no to that that answer. But I know what you're saying.

Peter (20:20)

What does it look like real quick? And Don, it's easy when you look at the standings to see the records of, you know, Oklahoma City or San Antonio or Detroit. Detroit being a bad example because of the Knicks problems with them. And it's easy to think you got no shot. But as Allen pointed out, Oklahoma City's record was like that last year. And Indiana still find them found themselves in a seven game series in the finals. But I'll answer your question quickly. No, I don't see a championship team. Can I rule it out?

Don Hahn (20:52)

No.

Peter (20:52)

They have talented players and you never know when a team gets it together. We could make a list. It could be a Don top five. Don't know if you've ever done it. Top five championship teams that didn't look like a championship team. And they got it together and went on a run. We see it happen in all four sports every few years. But I. But no, they don't look like a championship team.

Don Hahn (21:13)

Right. See, because that's, that's where I think that we start to reach is because, all right, look at Indiana. Came within a game, but they didn't win it. Yeah, I'm not going to take anything away from the run, but they didn't win it. They made.

Rosenberg (21:29)

Their best player got hurt, Don. Their best player got hurt in the.

Don Hahn (21:31)

I understand that. I understand that, but they didn't win. I could tell you about the San Diego Chargers going to a Super Bowl. All right. Or the Atlanta Falcons going to a Super Bowl. Not. Not the one that almost beat the Patriots. I'm talking about the one that got, you know, killed by the Denver Broncos. Like, we've seen teams make runs and yes, if they win the championship, you're a champion. We saw the Giants do it not once, but twice. Right? Yeah, we've seen. But when I ask, are you a championship team, could they win a championship, could they catch some breaks? Yes, you're going to be in that position. But I think you could also answer in the negative. Are you a championship team? And right now I don't see a championship team. I see that there's an avenue they might be able to take advantage of and put themselves in a position where with a bounce here, bounce there, they could do it. But is that what you're building towards? Are you building towards a team that is a championship caliber team?

Rosenberg (22:28)

If I told you, though, they get to the finals and lose, wasn't. And I know, again, championship is the goal, but getting to the finals is taking one more step. Sure is. Is that now disappointing? If they get there and put up a fight and lose, I. To me, it's like if they don't get out of the conference finals, that's. That's a disappointment. If they don't reach the conference finals, it's a failure.

Don Hahn (22:54)

And why is that? The two reasons why that's the case. One, because you went to the conference final last year.

Rosenberg (22:59)

Right.

Don Hahn (23:00)

And the biggest reason is because the door opened up with Halliburton and Tatum's injuries to where you feel like you got an easier path, but you should

Rosenberg (23:08)

be, yeah, you should be the best team. If not, put him up.

Don Hahn (23:12)

But could these two be. And I know I'm an old man, I was only five when it happened. So I'm reading about it. I don't remember when it took place, but the 73 Mets went to Game 7 of the World Series, and many people believe of a decision of when they pitched Tom Seaver at the end of that World Series could have won the title, but it was a fugazi run. They stuck with the team and then went through one of the worst periods in franchise history because they got fooled. All right, so sometimes you can get close. Like, let's say they go to the NBA Finals and they lose in six to the Thunder. Could the answer still be, we're not that close. We took advantage of a weak Eastern Conference. We've got to improve this team because if we try to do it again with a healthy Halliburton next year, a healthy Tatum next year, another year of experience with the Detroit Pistons, we're not going to get back here. So, yes, you got close, but isn't there a world out when you look back at losing in six to the spurs or the Thunder and say, we're still not good enough? Not automatically you take the next step next year.

Rosenberg (24:14)

Yeah. And that's the hardest thing that's going to come at the end of the season. And coincidentally, they're playing in Milwaukee tonight. So we all know. We all know, and I've said this from day one this season, what will hover over this team if they don't reach the goal, if they don't look like. If they don't look the part in the NBA Finals where what Mike Brown's saying about how, you know, by game 70, we need to start to see that we're getting it where all the other players are waiting to see, can we create our identities? Last 20 games, can it finally click? If that doesn't happen and the disconnect remains in the frustrating games, in the mercurial runs, if that all happens, we all know the conversation will be about the Greek and whether or not you blow it up, you keep Brunson and you bring in another superstar, wants to be here and try it with another. Another core. That's a real. That's a reality I think we're at right now.

Don Hahn (25:11)

And that reality might be losing in the Finals and still feeling like you got to go out and get Giannis. Right?

Rosenberg (25:19)

Could be.

Don Hahn (25:19)

It's possible.

Rosenberg (25:20)

Absolutely. Could be.

Don Hahn (25:21)

You know, depending on how it looks. You just can't look at the wins and losses. You got to dig deeper. And that's where I give a credit to the Mets. They got close, but they had that bad season and they made some really difficult decisions. Rangers and Knicks, you know, they try to stick with the players and we'll see if that decision works out. We'll see if the Mets decision works out certainly this year.

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Rosenberg (27:42)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter (27:45)

I didn't listen to anything you just

Rosenberg (27:47)

said Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don Hahn (27:55)

Don on Rosenberg with you until 7 o'. Clock. Then Dan Grasso will break you into Knicks and the Bucks. Taking calls on the Knicks right now at 1-800-919-3776. Got football to do later. Some interesting comments from Adam Fox with the Rangers. Jack Hughes was a special guest of McAfee, which is crazy. So a lot to get to today between now and seven o'. Clock. 1-800-919-3776. Where to begin? Where do we start? Let's start with Ethan in the car. You're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg on ESPN New York.

Caller 1 (28:29)

Hey, guys, first of all, love the show. Love all of you. I can't remember a Knicks team that's as infuriating as this one. And I've been in the fan for a long time. It has nothing to do with how good they are. I remember a while ago, Michael K. Was like frustrated at Knicks fans for loving Knicks teams of the past because they were physical. And he made this claim that like, oh, the Knicks just need to win. If they won, everybody would love them. It doesn't matter if they're physical or if they play finesse. Well, we've seen both. No, give me the physical team. This team lacks the mentality to win a championship. They have the talent. They've got talent oozing through their eyes. This team is so talented. They just, there's just something missing between the years and I can't figure it out. I don't think anybody can figure it out. And it must be infinite, infuriating for that front office that steps back and looks at an amazing team that they assembled. And for some reason, everything just is like a half step off. It's like an out of tune orchestra.

Rosenberg (29:26)

Yeah, that's a great way to put it out of tune.

Peter (29:28)

That's a good call. Let's put up a best call sign.

Rosenberg (29:30)

Yeah, that's a good, that's an excellent way to put it too. And I'll tell you, you know who's the most probably infuriated is Mike Brown. I mean, the coaching staff probably sits there, watches film, puts together a game plan. And then if it's a game like you saw in Cleveland, which by the way, Cleveland the very next night lost to the Bucs. And Cleveland tonight playing the Pistons without Donovan Mitchell and possibly also without James Harden. So I told you that Cleveland team was there to be had that night. They wouldn't do it. And if you're a coach, you're staring at that game, probably watching that film going, what the hell are we doing? Like how, how are we doing this stuff? And that's the part. And that's why I like what the caller said. It's not a physical issue. It's a neck up thing going on here.

Don Hahn (30:11)

I understand that. But at the same time, you still talking about a team that's going to win north of 50 games? Yeah, it's a team that's got a chance to be the number two. See, I mean they're a good team, but now they're being measured as a championship team. And is that fair now? I agree there's a disconnect, there's an issue, but you know, it's not. They're infuriating because they're not where you want them to be.

Rosenberg (30:34)

Not yet. And that's what they were telling us.

Peter (30:37)

They're supposed to be there this year, though.

Rosenberg (30:39)

Yeah, that's the thing. And that's what they're telling us though. They're telling us we're not there yet. Guys like town saying, I know everybody wants instant gratification, but we're not there. We're trying to get there, we're not there.

Don Hahn (30:52)

But this is the frustrating thing is, is that. Are they telling the truth? Like it's getting worse instead of better. Like you said, they started out 21 9.

Rosenberg (31:00)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (31:01)

That's supposed to be where you struggle, right?

Rosenberg (31:03)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (31:03)

That's supposed to be where there's a disconnect by the time you get to the end of February. It's supposed to be getting him better, not worse and worse.

Rosenberg (31:09)

I. You're absolutely right. No.

Don Hahn (31:13)

Or is it maybe just not good enough?

Rosenberg (31:15)

I don't think it's not good enough. I think there's something else happening within the group where it's. Whether it's roles, where it's lineups because he, because Mike Brown, the other. I mean he's just throwing different lineups out there. It just starts to get to a point where, wait, like you don't know your role anymore. When you just keep. You play two minutes, you come back out. There's a lot of that going on right now that they all have to figure out. But they better figure it out tonight for sure. Because the Bucks, they're playing without Giannis, they've played better, they've pleading some bad teams. You're supposed to do that. But if you don't win this game tonight, the next five games, what we talked about, the gauntlet, Don, like the Next five games are the worst part of the gauntlet. It's where it gets, you know, you're talking about Sunday afternoon against Wemby and the spurs, not Wemby versus the Spurs. This time. This time he's actually playing for the Spurs. Tuesday at Toronto, which is never an easy trip. And the very next day at home against the Thunder. How do you like that for back to back? You got to play OKC the day after a road trip.

Don Hahn (32:17)

And that's what will be maddening because you know, they'll win a couple of those games they're not supposed to and then they'll drop one.

Rosenberg (32:23)

Well, then they go to Denver to start a road trip at Denver on a Friday night, which is not an easy team, easy place to play. They're a good team. And then a Sunday, of course, once again, national TV against LeBron, Luka and the Lakers.

Don Hahn (32:34)

Listen, they could be like, this is,

Rosenberg (32:36)

this is a tough five game stretch. And then I'm telling you, however bad it goes, from that day forward, the majority of their opponents have losing records. They could finish the season on a hot streak and, and it could be fool's gold. I don't know. Yeah, well, but these five games, man, after tonight they're going to be.

Don Hahn (32:57)

And that's why tonight becomes important, because you just can't let this one slip through your fingers. Not after what happened against Cleveland. Let's go to Blanderson. Hooper, always good to talk to him. You're on. Donna Rosenberg.

Caller 1 (33:08)

What's going on, guys?

Don Hahn (33:10)

It's all going.

Caller 1 (33:12)

So I wanted to talk about Cat. And listen, I get that Cat's not having a good season by his standards. The numbers are down across the board. I do also think though that he is just the lightning rod for, for controversy when it comes to Knicks fans. I think Knicks fans just are able to conveniently blame everything on him. And there are other problems with this team other than just Cat for one. Where's Mikhail Bridges? Okay, the fact that you've got Landry Shamet or Jose Alvarado finishing games instead of Bridges at times, I think is a complete indictment of Bridges. If the three pointer isn't falling, they basically have no chance of winning. I know that with Mike Brown, he likes more of a read and react system than like calling plays. But you have cat in the first quarter, the other game going 4 for 4, scoring 11 points and then taking one shot in the second half. You've got to be able to, you know, if things aren't working, if, if Cats not getting shots just in the flow of the game, why can't you go to play? So I just think that, yes, he's definitely a huge part of it. The offensive fouls, the constantly complaining to the officials. But there are so many other things at play here. It's not just him. And it's all getting, I think, unfairly pinned on him.

Rosenberg (34:32)

Well, I mean, you said a lot of Right. Correct things there, but that last part, it's not unfair. It's not unfair at all that there's a demand on him to be dominant every night and make sure you don't end up with five shots in a game and only one in the second half. Now, is it on Mike Brown? Yes, it certainly is. It's on Jalen Brunson, too, because you play with a big man that talented and you're realizing this guy's not getting involved. You got to get him involved. Now, Mike Brown said we did call plays, they didn't result in shots. Whether it was a turnover or the play didn't work or whatever it is that the team wasn't just offensively, they weren't right. So something was going on there. But he even said, I did call plays for him. They didn't work out. Which I actually am a little more concerned to hear that versus not calling plays. But I think the criticism is fair. The eye test shows you that there are games when he's the star out on the court, Brunson's off the floor, and it's just him. There's games where he's just. I don't know, I want to say not engaged, but he's just not involved. That can't happen. That's a mentality, and that's what Shaq was saying, guys. Shaq was saying, like, you can't allow that. You have to want to dominate games to a point where if you're not getting the ball, you force them to get you the ball. And maybe he's just not like that.

Don Hahn (36:00)

Au in Jamaica. What do you got, man?

Caller 2 (36:03)

Hey, man, I'm love. I'm loving the talk, man. Thanks for taking my call, guys. We know now that we swung. We'll swung back to Cat. You know, as a coach, you know, there's three things that made us win in teams was offensive fluidity, defensive commitment, and buy in. This team is a championship team, but there's no defense commitment, there's no offensive fluidity, and there's definitely no buy in. You know, there's somebody on this team is that for you, for your big man to get five Shots that needs to be in demand of whoever's in that ball setting up a play. We're going to come out of timeout. Come on. We're going to set these next two plays for catch. That doesn't happen. You can see the offense, like, wondering what's happening. And I love Jalen Brunson, but sometimes I look at this Carmelo Anthony thing, you know, and, and those are very. He makes very, very. He makes very low percentage shots at the bottom of the clock. And so I think in order for us to be committed and think that we're going to make this thing, we have a champion championship team that is not going to be champions. And that's the mistake that we have as New York fans, that we have it right here for the taking and it's not going to happen.

Rosenberg (37:11)

That's. Well, that's a good phrase. We have a championship team that's not going to win a championship. Wow.

Don Hahn (37:16)

Because talent and roster is just part of what makes a championship team. It's about coaching, it's about system, it's about buy in, it's about sacrifice, it's about taking advantage of breaks, all those things that lead to a championship, not just assembling a bunch of players. Now go out there and win the championship. That. That simplifies it too much because talent isn't that. We've seen plenty of talented teams like I was. I've said with the Devils, they've got an immense amount of talent.

Rosenberg (37:49)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (37:50)

And they. And right now they are five points out of being the worst team in the Eastern Conference.

Rosenberg (37:56)

And it's. It's hard to believe how they just cannot score when they have that much offensive talent.

Don Hahn (38:01)

So it just shows you it's not just about talent. It's about buy in, it's about coaching, it's about all the things that I mentioned. So if you don't have that, if you don't have all of that, then you're not a championship team. Yes, on paper, they're a championship team. They've got the talent to be there. But the fact that they're not, to me, makes them not a championship team. And they, luckily they've got time to figure it out. There's still plenty of regular season left. I don't think this team will be that tested in the first round. If they can avoid, you know, having to be the fourth seed, they can avoid. They could really avoid having to really be tested in the first two rounds. Yeah, but all the things that he talked about or why they're Not a championship team.

Peter (38:41)

I'll tell you what, I don't think this is. I don't think this team benefits in the long run. I don't know how much they benefit from not being tested in the first couple of rounds. It's like if they could find a way to get through like Don, that could almost allow them to get through without getting to another gear. They just play other teams that are kind of whatever.

Rosenberg (38:59)

It's a good point.

Don Hahn (39:00)

Get punched right in the head. Right.

Rosenberg (39:02)

You know, it's a good point.

Peter (39:03)

You kind of get through. You get through 1, 4, 2. You get, you know, the other one's 7, but the team's not very good.

Rosenberg (39:09)

Yeah.

Peter (39:09)

Then you're like, you get to Detroit or. And you're just.

Rosenberg (39:12)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (39:13)

Completely slammed.

Rosenberg (39:14)

Like they need, they, you know, they need to play in Orlando. Who did that? You talk about like they just scratch and claw. Like they're young but they're punchy. You know, they give you a hard time. They need to play somebody like that well, honestly. And when there's something on the line, maybe this veteran team turns it on.

Don Hahn (39:34)

Allen, I think they got that last year. I think they were tested by Detroit.

Rosenberg (39:37)

Yep. Great point.

Don Hahn (39:38)

And I think that really helped them against the Celtic. They didn't want the floor with the Pistons at all. There were a couple of dicey moments in that series.

Rosenberg (39:44)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (39:45)

You know, so maybe just you need. You had a little bit of a wake up call and maybe it'll happen in the regular season and maybe to your point, Peter, it'll happen in the first couple of rounds, but we'll see. There is still a little bit of time on their side. More calls at 1-800-919-3776. Of course, Frodal or Friday coming up from 4:30, so line those up. Should be a lot of fun. I'm in St. Louis. Allen's over at the Garden getting ready for Nick's and the Bucks and, and that pregame. And Peter, I'm sure you got a lot going on this weekend too, right? Elimination chamber. Is that what you got?

Peter (40:13)

That's right.

Rosenberg (40:14)

He's going to Chicago tonight, baby.

Peter (40:15)

I'm going to Chicago. I just saw. I have an assignment to interview Triple H before the event tomorrow.

Rosenberg (40:20)

Oh, that's not nothing.

Peter (40:21)

Got the Countdown show. Got Flex Show.

Rosenberg (40:23)

Come on. Can I. Oh, can we get a new drop? There you go.

Don Hahn (40:28)

This is a well traveled show.

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Rosenberg (43:47)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter (43:51)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Rosenberg (43:52)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don Hahn (44:00)

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Rosenberg (44:59)

George, hey, how you doing?

Don Hahn (45:03)

Good. That's.

Caller 1 (45:04)

It's pretty beautiful here. Listen, I got two stats for you that I want you guys to think about. So last year after the All Star break, the Knicks were 15 and 13 after the all Star break. That pretty much sucks.

Rosenberg (45:20)

Yep.

Caller 1 (45:21)

And they were.04 against the number one team in the, in the conference, the Boston Celtics. And Boston crushed them every time they played them.

Don Hahn (45:29)

Mm.

Caller 1 (45:29)

Let's just hope they're trying to save their, save everything for the playoffs.

Rosenberg (45:33)

I don't know.

Caller 2 (45:34)

I mean, what else can we think?

Don Hahn (45:36)

I mean, but, but that, that's, that,

Rosenberg (45:38)

that's the, that's the hopeful optimist. That's the optimism. Right. That's your home.

Caller 2 (45:41)

That's, that's right now.

Caller 1 (45:42)

That's all we can think about.

Rosenberg (45:43)

That's all you got. Right?

Caller 2 (45:44)

But they're not going to be they're

Rosenberg (45:46)

not telling you that, though.

Caller 1 (45:47)

They turn it on.

Rosenberg (45:48)

Here's the problem though, there. And by the way, when you're in Bermuda, of course you can have nothing but optimism. So I respect it. But if you listen to the players, though, that's. I think that's what caught my attention. If the players were a little more dismissive of it, like, you know, we're good, we're getting it, whatever. But the fact that even they're like, you know, we're still trying to figure out identity, that's what caused my concern is if even the players sound like they're still like, not comfortable yet. I'm a little worried about that.

Don Hahn (46:17)

But a couple of things here, George, and thanks for the phone call, is that who are they to play with their food? Oh, we don't want to show them anything. You were crushed in all 12 quarters. Lost all 12 quarters at least at Celtics, you lost a game in overtime. You won five of the 17 quarters you played. There's always going to be examples, guys, of how the regular season doesn't translate to the postseason, but you don't want to have your number one competition be non competitive. I know the Pistons have a lot more to play for because they got a lot more to prove because what the last time they were out of the first round was 2008. There's nobody left from that team here. So, I mean, so this is rarefied air for the Pistons. So I get that logic, but is that what you want to rely upon? That every year that you end up beating the team that crushed you in the regular season? I mean, last year to me is more of an aberration than the truth. Now start playing like a team that's supposed to go, I don't think anybody want. And the Pistons didn't even have their best players on the court, guys. I mean, so that. So that's all it is every time you lose. We didn't want to win anyway. Come on, man. Yeah, I don't think it's. We didn't want to win some meaning.

Rosenberg (47:32)

Yeah, it's not. But, but, but Brown. The thing about not calling plays, like, again, Tibbs was very structured. This is very loose. And the thing about not wanting to call plays and play within the flow and just kind of feel and rhythm, you know, that's like the. The previous caller brought up the orchestra, right? It's like you gotta find it. And it's because he said during the playoffs, everybody knows your plays. So if you're calling a play, they know what's coming, they're ready for it. Because you're playing, you know, multiple games against the same team, there's no secrets. You have to. He said, we have to learn how to play without calling plays, because once we figure that out, we're harder to guard in the playoffs. And that's a Golden State warriors thing. He brought that from the Warriors. The warriors just learned how to play in the flow, and it made them so difficult because you had no idea where the ball was going because they weren't yelling out like, you know, blue or X. Like people, you know, Once you hear that defense coach gets up off the bench and he yells to his players, x. X. That means this. Look for that. Watch the back cut. And so you're locked in. But if you aren't calling a play, you don't know what to do. And so Mike Brown's trying to use that logic of we need to learn how to play like this. So we're so dangerous and tough to guard in the playoffs. And the Knick players are like, we're still trying to figure it out, though. Does that make sense, Don?

Don Hahn (48:56)

Yeah, it does.

Rosenberg (48:57)

I think that's what it is. More than we don't want to win or we don't care or all that stuff. I think they're just trying to figure it out. And at times it can look really ugly.

Don Hahn (49:06)

I know, but. But I just. And maybe. Maybe George is right and a lot of other fans feel as well they'll just turn it on come playoff time.

Rosenberg (49:13)

Yeah. I don't ever like that.

Peter (49:16)

Is there a. Is there a. Is there an outcome here that it's over immediately for Mike Brown? In other words, the same conversation that we had about Aaron Glenn. Is there an outcome here that for Mike Brown, it's one and done.

Rosenberg (49:33)

So did I bring it up on the show or in the meeting? The 95, 96 season?

Don Hahn (49:37)

Well, I wanted you to say, I

Rosenberg (49:39)

don't want to be reported.

Don Hahn (49:40)

I want you to save that for four, because that's really something interesting to get into.

Rosenberg (49:44)

Yep.

Don Hahn (49:44)

The comparisons from 30 years ago, because

Rosenberg (49:46)

I think there's a lot there. A lot there.

Don Hahn (49:49)

But to quickly answer Peter's question before we go. Yes, I believe there is. Because, remember, he wasn't their first choice

Rosenberg (49:56)

or their second or their third or their fourth. Right.

Don Hahn (50:01)

Unfortunately, all of the guys they wanted were under contract.

Rosenberg (50:04)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (50:05)

You know, so, hey, he could be. He can be disposed of as easily as anybody else. Right. I mean, if this ended really. I mean, like, come on. If they got bounced in the first round. I think he's gone.

Rosenberg (50:15)

No, no, there'd be a lot. There'd be a lot of gone. Yeah, a lot of gone. I might be gone.

Don Hahn (50:20)

Yeah.

Rosenberg (50:22)

Luggage day. They're like, you know, bad walk off interviews. He's got to go too, right?

Don Hahn (50:28)

You know, we got to make major changes here. Everybody, everybody would be gone if they got green. My question, it's a great question, Peter, because again, it wasn't like they hunted down Mike Brown. It was almost like just anybody but Tibbs. Let's go after the big guns here. And they couldn't land them. They couldn't bring in Kidd. And they. I don't want to say they settled on Brown because I think they wanted him, but he certainly wasn't the first choice. And I could see a world. But Allen. Coming up, we're going to continue with the Nick calls, but Alan's got really interesting history that I think plays into the current Knicks. Then fraud alert Friday is at 4:30 as well. So we've got to get into that because that's always important. Fraud Alert Friday, people love it. But I also want to get ready for Rickleball madness. It's Friday, March 20th. ESPN New York starts taking over Pickleball Heaven in Medford, New York. Catch a live broadcast of Dpietro and rothenberg starting at 6am and stick around for our social ladder Pickleball tournament. They'll crown the champion. They believe it's going to be them. And then we're going to roll right into some college hoops for a watch party with all the fans there in Medford. Sign up now on ESPN New York's app spots are very limited, so get involved. Rickleball Madness, brought to you by Pickleball Heaven, the new standard of indoor pickleball.

Rosenberg (51:49)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter (51:52)

I don't want to know how the

Rosenberg (51:53)

sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the og it kicked off this whole

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