Hour 1: Knicks & Joe Theismann

Summary

New York Knicks Coaching Speculations [00:40 – 06:29]

The episode kicks off with an in-depth discussion about the New York Knicks' ongoing search for a new head coach. Hosts Don Hahn, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg express frustration over the Knicks reportedly being turned down by various coaching candidates. At [05:55], Don Hahn voices his perplexity, stating, “Why is this Allen being spun like, oh, this is embarrassing. The Knicks don't know what they're doing.” Alan Hahn adds context by suggesting that negative narratives are easier to fabricate, remarking, “Because it's easy.”

The conversation delves into the dynamics of the Knicks' hiring process, questioning whether the team's persistence in reaching out to top-tier coaches like Jason Kidd is being perceived as arrogance. Don Hahn posits, “It feels like more Dolan motivated than Nick Motivated,” indicating possible internal influences affecting the negotiations. The hosts debate the optics of the Knicks' approach, pondering why their efforts to secure a competent coach are being spun negatively in the media.

Guest Segment: Joe Theisman on Football [24:16 – 43:37]

Midway through the episode, Joe Theisman joins as a guest to provide his insights on various football-related topics. Don Hahn begins by paying tribute to the recently passed broadcaster Mike Patrick, highlighting his significance in the industry: “Mike was the mortar that held the bricks together.” Joe reminisces about his collaboration with Patrick, emphasizing the broadcaster's professionalism and impact on their work dynamic.

The discussion transitions to the Washington Commanders' new quarterback, Jaden Daniels. Joe praises Daniels' performance and potential impact on the team, stating at [26:07], “If he stays healthy, the sky's the limit for this football team and for him.” He credits coordinator Cliff Kingsbury for creating an environment where Daniels can thrive, noting his ability to make smart decisions and effective throws.

Attention then shifts to the quarterback exchanges involving Aaron Rodgers and Justin Fields. Joe analyzes the implications of Rodgers moving to Pittsburgh and Fields joining the Jets, suggesting that Rodgers’ focus will benefit his play now that he's not involved in personnel decisions. At [28:13], Joe observes, “He's not involved in the personnel, he's not worried about the personnel... very well in Pittsburgh,” indicating Rodgers' potential positive influence on his new team.

Joe also addresses his thoughts on the unpredictability of the upcoming AFC and NFC Championship games. When pressed for specific predictions, he humbly responds, “Absolutely not,” acknowledging the myriad of factors like injuries and team dynamics that make accurate forecasting challenging.

Promotion of American Century Golf Championship [40:06 – 43:33]

Joe takes a moment to promote the 36th American Century Golf Championship, an event he is set to participate in. He elaborates on the event's growth and significance, mentioning, “It has grown so much, we're expecting upwards of 70,000 people.” Joe highlights notable participants, including former athletes and celebrities, and introduces the American Century Fantasy Golf Contest. He encourages listeners to engage with the contest, explaining the rules and the exciting rewards for winners, thereby blending promotion seamlessly into the conversation.

Sports Updates: Mets Victory and Senga's Injury [47:06 – 50:29]

The focus then shifts to current sports events, beginning with the Mets' impressive 4-0 lead and their subsequent victory to sweep the series. Don Hahn conveys the excitement, stating, “The Mets were able to find a way to get out of it. They win 4:3 and sweep the series.”

Attention moves to pitcher Kodai Senga's hamstring injury, which raises concerns about his availability for upcoming games. Alan Hahn expresses worry over Senga missing time, to which Don Hahn agrees, noting, “They didn't have him pretty much all of last year, and then he pitched in the Philly series... So we'll keep an eye.” The hosts discuss the potential impact of Senga's injury on the Mets' season, especially given their strong standing in the league.

Closing Banter and Final Thoughts [50:29 – 51:09]

In the closing moments, Peter Rosenberg reflects on how the hosts' earlier analyses are holding up, commenting that their “takes are aging really well.” A humorous exchange ensues regarding the repeated mention of “Michael,” with the hosts teasing each other about misnaming guests. They wrap up by reinforcing their commitment to providing timely sports updates and tease upcoming segments, such as the Post Game show on 880, ensuring listeners remain engaged for future episodes.

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast episode titled "Hour 1: Knicks & Joe Theismann," highlighting key discussions, insightful commentary, and notable quotes with proper timestamps to provide a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

Never seen holes like that before.

[Alan Hahn]

Han. I'm not comfortable touching it. I'm not. No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Rosenberg, I'm not breastfeeding. No, but I.

[Alan Hahn]

That's too bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This isn't North Dakota, this is New York.

[Michael Kay]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Don Hahn]

The best threesome I've ever heard.

[Michael Kay]

On 880 ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Don Hahn]

3 o' clock at Elite City Don in Rosenberg on a hot, humid Thursday. Talk some sports with you till 7 o' clock. And if you noticed guys with a true professional leading into Don on a. Rosenberg. I got you in on time. Three o' clock. Perfect. Perfect landing. Stuck the landing. What do you think of that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, is this. Is this the man known as Marathon Don?

[Don Hahn]

Marathon Don. Love it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on, man, this guy's a pro.

[Alan Hahn]

How you feeling right now, though? Are you a little like load management right now? You need a little like break? You need a 20?

[Don Hahn]

No, I'm ready, man. I'm full speed ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

You don't want to towel off. You don't want to get a little spritz.

[Don Hahn]

Four more hours of radio. Why not?

[Alan Hahn]

Look at you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can you give us a quick recap on what happened?

[Don Hahn]

Well, thanks for listening.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on.

[Don Hahn]

I broke it down. So you, Peter and you know, full bank of calls thanks to all the people that were listening. That's really prime real estate that Michael left us. We talked about his excursion out of the Flushing, which just shows you.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

When people see a face to face, they got a completely different attitude than on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And who is right, Don, me or you? You were concerned about.

[Don Hahn]

Right. I just. I worry about my guy. But he wasn't. He had a great time.

[Alan Hahn]

I did.

[Don Hahn]

I'll tell you what. Dave and Rick on the Jumbotron, and I'm sticking with my four with Rothenberg. Take a look at that picture.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, you know what? I think you should consider lowering it. You know, why don't you? Because he's really committed. He's. He's really made a commitment to being like Lord of the Graybeards. And I don. I don't think it's a great choice, do you?

[Don Hahn]

I don't think so. I think it. But he could tighten it up. I think he can make it look a lot better and, you know, wear a jersey that you can actually button. Oh, do you see the picture?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, well, I saw this.

[Don Hahn]

You're on the Jumbotron at Citi Field. As a Met fan, man, clean it up.

[Alan Hahn]

All I saw was our guy, pinhead suit, John Winthrop photobombing with the epic Thumbs up grin.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But, but he looked good. John looks great.

[Alan Hahn]

But I love the fact that he did like, I love that he made sure he's a big Mets fan. Right. So for John Winthrop being on that board, that's a big deal for him personally. The fact that rather than maybe, you know, some bosses are like, no, no, no, this is not about me. Let me get out of the picture. Let me not be like. Or I'll put my head down, you know, no, straight up cheese with a thumbs up. I loved it.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And also John's a Met fan, but he would stab Pete Alonso in the groin for Justin Fields to get a first down in a preseason game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, it's one of the great takes. But what's, what's going on with Dave? So. So Dave wore like a black and white short sleeve button down where like the whole base of the shirt is white, but the top at the shoulders is black. It's a bizarre shirt. It almost looks with the open jersey down, like he's wearing a bulletproof vest under his jersey.

[Don Hahn]

We're, I thought Michael would have to wear the bulletproof vest. So now we talked about that, we talked about the Kreider deal to Anaheim official. Unfortunately, we're keeping an eye and not breaking news because we don't have any news yet. But Senga looked like he injured his hamstring in the top of the sixth inning. Ground ball in the second base hole. Alonso made the play, but he threw high to Senga who had to reach down to touch the bag. And as he did, he grabbed his hamstring, went down, left the game. So we'll see if how significant that injury is. And what's been just an amazing season for the Mets. 4 Nothing today, a win today and a Tiger loss. The Mets would officially have the best record in baseball. They're tied for it now. But that's not what you need, guys, is to lose your ace. So we'll keep an eye and see how significant this injury is.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, you already know he's going to miss time.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, for sure.

[Alan Hahn]

Clearly how much remains to be seen, but that kind of stuff is the first like you. And again, you'd rather it now. You never want it, but you know injuries are going to happen. You'd rather at this time of year, but like, you know he's going to miss time. The good news is they, they are pretty much prepared for it. And by the way, with Montas and Manaya kind of awaiting the wings, you know, it's almost like you'll just Replace one with the other. For the time being, I'm only. I'm only trying to put a little bit of shine on it because it doesn't. You don't expect it to be a devastating thing, but, you know, with a pitcher, he's going to miss time. You could just already condition yourself to say, we know he's missing time. You just hope it's not a lot of time.

[Don Hahn]

And listen, they didn't have him pretty much all of last year, and then he pitched in the Philly series in the playoffs, and they were able to still make it. So just something to see. And also the jumping off point, it's something I talked about on Michael's show is, again, all these teams keep turning down the Knicks, but I don't get the narrative. And we haven't had a chance to speak on this because I was doing the show, this narrative, and Charles Barkley, you know, did it last night. The fans like, how embarrassing is it that all these teams are saying no to the Knicks? And I'm thinking, why are you spinning it as if the coaches are saying no? Why is it being spun like, no one wants to coach the Knicks?

[Alan Hahn]

Because it's easy.

[Don Hahn]

It just makes sense that you're asking teams if they. You could talk to their coach, and what they're saying is, no, because we like our coach. And that's the reason the Knicks want them is because they're good coaches. Like, so why is this Allen being spun like, oh, this is embarrassing. The Knicks don't know what they're doing. They fired their coach because the players didn't want to play for the coach. They're looking for another one. They're telling you the sky's the limit. We're going to talk to everybody. And these organizations who love their coach are saying no. So why is it being spun like coaches are saying no to them that nobody wants to coach the Knicks? Why is it being spun that way?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it's the. It's the fact that they're being rejected from talking to coaches they were hoping to target, which suggests that you assumed you'd be able to talk to them and you can't. You should have known that ahead of time. Like, it's. The idea is like. Like, it's funny. I went to get a haircut today, and I'm being stopped outside the barbershop like this. It's really become a big thing everywhere. There's not many places I haven't gone yet. I was on the train yesterday coming home. Same thing a guy said hello to me. And then he just said. He goes, what do you think's going to happen? Everybody wants to know. This is, you know, this is. We're waiting for the white smoke coming out of the chimney at msg. It's really become that level of, what's going to happen? Who's it going to be? And I think the feeling is. Is firing Tibs felt sudden. And then it's, well, they must. As I said, they must have somebody in mind that they knew, that they know they can just pop right in. And so when they reached out to talk to the coach that they wanted, which is Jason Kidd, they were told, no, you can't talk to him. And it's almost like, oh, we can't. Like, I think people are assuming that the Knicks are, like, caught off guard, that they aren't allowed to talk to coaches who are under contract. That's what this looks like. And now it's, well, well, now what we do. What do we do now? Because we were going to get that guy. Well, why don't we try this guy? Okay. No, we can't talk to him either. Oh, my God. Well, how about that guy? No, we can't talk to him either. What. What are we going to do? Like, I think people see that, and I'll. I'll say this, just like the jets and just like the Mets, the Knicks have earned this. They don't get the benefit of the doubt yet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Nope.

[Alan Hahn]

Leon Rose has done a wonderful job coming in here and running it like a functional franchise, doing a really good job making them a winning team. But there is still the perception nationally and even locally that people can't wait for them to, you know, the jets are going to Jet, the Mets are going to Met, the Knicks are going to Nick. That's just something we all wait for. And the minute there's a little hint of it, we jump on it and say, see? See, there they are again. Like, it's almost like. Like revealing the mask. You take the mask off and it's. Yeah, you're still. It's still a clown under there. And that's. The Knicks have earned that over the last 25 years, unfortunately.

[Don Hahn]

Now, is it that go, or is it Dolan like. Oh, it's.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's all of it. Of course it is.

[Don Hahn]

But I just almost. It does feel like it's more Dolan motivated than Nick Motivated. That.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Woody Johnson's the same thing, right? Woody Johnson, but.

[Don Hahn]

But Leon Hess before, like, the jets have been doing it for a long time, Matt. It Was Will Pond. But, you know, I think the jets.

[Alan Hahn]

Cornered the market on it.

[Don Hahn]

I think losing is going to be a part of that. But. But I just wonder are. Is there a little extra spice from fans and from media? Because there. I think there's a lot of people that would like Dolan to look bad.

[Alan Hahn]

Of course. Well, let me ask you this. Do you guys look at it as arrogant that, like, what do you mean you're calling on IME Odoka? Who the hell are you? He works for us. No, we're not letting you talk to him. Like, who are you to. Why would you want to talk to, like, Jason Kidd? He just took us to an NBA Finals last year. We gave him an extension. Who are you to say but that you want to talk? What. What, you want to take him away from us? No, like, I think they're also this perception of an arrogance. We'll just take your guy. And I think there's something to like around the. Like, that's the sense I got this morning as I was talking to a friends of mine within the NBA. Is the word I kept getting was arrogance. Like, like, like they just. They're so arrogant that they think they can just, you know, poach somebody else's coach and that they're going to let them, like, oh, we can't do anything about it. The big bad New York market wants them.

[Don Hahn]

I get that. That was fair, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a fair point.

[Don Hahn]

I get it. But can it also be spun in a positive way that they're pulling out all the stops like they know how important this is and they're going to do their due diligence and they're going to ask anyway.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

You know, because I don't want to hear later on, after we settle for somebody else, though, that Jason Kidd really wanted the job. But the Knicks never asked that Udoka could have been taken from Houston, but nobody ever asked. And Peter, you brought up the point yesterday when Sham said it was. I forget what team it was. Had a firm no. Well, what other no.

[Alan Hahn]

Have Atlanta on a quint.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of all people, Quinn Snyder. I didn't know was that desirable, but no.

[Don Hahn]

Maybe, but no. You're going to say an emphatic no because now the next thing is, well, maybe the Knicks will now call again and say, how about this? How about that? What if we offered you this so it makes sense to say no. Just hoping that maybe they'll up the ante with an offer. And I still think that Jason Kidd could be had. I think Dallas is playing games. Because ultimately, why would you work so hard to keep a coach that doesn't want to be there? So I still think there's a possibility of that. But why you. Are you only allowed to talk to coaches that are available? Does it hurt just to ask? I mean, you see coaches all the time, break contracts, leave to go other places. Right. I mean, it's. It happens a lot in college, happens a lot in the pros. I don't see the harm in asking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But as I point, as I also said yesterday, I think, and Alan conceded this, you know, in spite of your argument, Alan, that they have a plan. It's just sort of a. The plan hasn't played out for us yet. It playing out this way where like they're overtly reaching out to so many different places and we're finding out about every single one is not ideal from an optic standpoint. This doesn't happen, guys. Every time there's an availability that we hear about every single Lakers.

[Alan Hahn]

Did the Lakers do that? The Lakers had a coaching. Right? They had a coaching Vegas. Oh, yeah. They went for Danny Hurley. It didn't work. And then they took J.J. redick. They didn't go, hey, we want to have Eric Spoelstra. Let's go talk. Hey, we're the Lakers. So he wants to come work for us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, there was two people that were in consideration and that was it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, you did not see that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But this looks very messy. It just does.

[Don Hahn]

But it does. Back up, what I said yesterday about this had nothing to do with finding a coach that can get us over the top. This is all about. We had to let Tibbs go because the players didn't want to play for him.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And now any. We'll bring in anybody now because it. We didn't want to fire the coach. Players don't want to have him. So now we're going to go try to find the next coach. So it's not like finding a specific coach, Peter. It's really just about finding like any coach that these players want to play for. And it sounds like they'll have. They'll take anybody over Tibbs.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I, I don't know about that because it is interesting. And I was, I was trying to find this out last night and nobody really seems to know. So again, kid makes a ton of sense. Relationships and everything else with Brunson, the whole thing. Right. Makes sense. Even Udoka makes sense because he's not. He's not handsomely paid for the level of coach that he is for his own fault, of course, but still.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, and the Rockets, like, what are they, they're still young, you know, there's a, like, would he want a chance to go with a champion? I can tell you that Odoka would love to come east and then have to be and get the chance to beat the crap out of the Celtics after everything that went down there. You know, there's a lot of stuff there that you could, you know, you could really see why Udo Finch, I, I, I not sure. I think he's highly regarded, so maybe they thought with things going on there, he could shake free. But the Donovan and Snyder ones like it. What? And then I'm thinking, because if you're trying to find the best, why didn't they ask the Clippers about Ty Lu? Why didn't they ask the Cavs about Kenny Atkinson, who, by the way, is from New York and I know regards the Nick job as a dream job. Like, if you're going to ask for the best. Kenny Axon just won Coach of the Year. Well, like, why wouldn't you have asked for those guys who I consider they're among the best, most respected coaches in the league right now? They didn't ask on them. So that found maybe they are looking for something specific to fit what they're looking for.

[Don Hahn]

But let's look at the evidence that we have. If they asked the players, are you cool with us firing Tibbs? And they said yes, then I would assume they probably asked the players, all right, Juan coaching this. So are they just following a list of guys? Like, oh, I would like Donovan to be my coach?

[Alan Hahn]

Who knows him? Nobody knows.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know. But I'm saying they could be following a list of who are some of the guys you'd want to play for? They all talk to each other, right? Like the Atkinson thing? Maybe Atkinson hasn't been asked because we saw how he lost his job in Brooklyn. And players talk, and maybe they're like, now we hear we don't want him, we hear we don't want Ty Lou, but here are some guys we do want.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's what I mean. Like, how much of this is. And I hate to do this because I don't want it to drive speculation, but I'm trying to figure it out like everybody else is. Kid has a relationship with Giannis, right? KD also has that relationship. KD has a relationship with Udoka. Like, there's all little things like that that you're like, is there more to this than I, than I want to believe that's. That's why it just doesn't seem to make sense. And it's hard to explain. But the only way to explain it is they look at it as, let's see, who might shake free among, like, the best coaches that we can identify that could fit this job. Let's see. And if they don't? Well, we already know who's available. Michael Malone, Mike Brown. Like this guys, we can go talk to, and we can hire somebody that's still credible and experienced. But before we do that, see, like, because you said, Donna, I love the way you put that. And, Peter, does this make you maybe understand what I was awkwardly trying to explain yesterday? I did a terrible job trying to do it, but it's okay. But it's like. It's. It's. It's. What the way Don explained it was, is. Is I don't want to know that that guy would have taken the job if we asked later on after I already hired somebody else. I don't want to know that. So why not ask?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, that makes sense. I just. There's no better way to do. No better way to back channel this.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the thing is, is that Shams.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Finds out every single one. I mean, it's like. Are they going through Shams? It's like they're calling shots. Hey, hey, Seams, Nick's here. Can you go out?

[Alan Hahn]

But it's the other teams doing it. That's not the. You think the Knicks are saying, hey, they firmly denied us? No, they. The teams are telling him, hey, look, they called about our guy, too, and it's almost like these teams want to brag. Our coach is really good. The Knicks are trying to get them, so they put it out there. I'm telling you, the PR people are the ones reaching out to Shams and saying they reached out to us, too, and we shot them down.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, I'm sure of that. But like Leon Rose and West, they don't have relationships with teams where this can be done in a way. And there's something, you know, a level of respect here where it's not immediately talking about it.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's what you're back to. I. I think I'm asking that in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Earnest on how that works.

[Alan Hahn]

It's a fair question. You mean. You mean like this? I call you Peter. You're the GM of the Bulls. I'm. I'm Leon Rose. Hey, listen, Peter, I don't want to make a big deal of this, but if. If you guys. If you are. You Guys really firm on Billy, or if we wanted to talk to him, would you let us? And then you just say, yeah, no, we're firm on him. All right, cool.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no. Yeah, we know he's our guy.

[Alan Hahn]

We're staying with him. And then just leave it alone. Okay, cool.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks, buddy.

[Don Hahn]

But the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But not the. Immediately give it up.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the motivation to give it up is. Is that. I know. Does Leon Rose have a lot of enemies among owners? Being a former agent?

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Don Hahn]

Do a lot of these owners not like Jim Dolan, and look for an opportunity to embarrass him at any possibility?

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, there is some history there. That. That part there is history.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. So I think that might be the motivation now. Now, the other thing I want to jump off to here, and we got a guest coming up. Joe Theisman's gonna be joining us at the bottom of the hour. He's a great guest. There's a lot of football to get to with him. Is that this Tibbs firing is not gonna age well because all of a sudden, you know, you look at this, this Pacer team maybe wasn't the patsy everybody thought. They're up 2:1 in the. In the finals.

[Alan Hahn]

We definitely need to discuss this later. I am curious how fans are viewing it now that maybe all these people, we should have beaten the Pacers. And don't spin it into. Well, we'd be up 2:1 on the Thunder. No, no, no, no, no. What you need to say is maybe that Pacer team was a lot better than we thought because the Thunder were kicking everybody's ass all year. Right? Like, and the fact that the Pacers defensively have done a great. They. That Game three defensively was great. It was not a great game. This has not been a great Finals. I'll be the first to admit it, but they're up to 1. 80% of the time. Game three winner goes up to one wins the freaking Finals. Like, think about that. That's how close they are. And so maybe you have to acknowledge as a Nick fan, you know, that loss might not be as bad as you thought. Maybe they were really that good because look what they're doing to the team that killed everyone all year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But isn't there also a piece if you watch, kind of, you watch what Rick Carlisle does in game with a group Allen, that at best is slightly more talented than the Knicks. At best. And. And you just think it actually reminds you that there are better coaches out there.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, I'm glad you said it. I was on earlier today on ESPN Radio with Joe and Q. And they asked me about the Finals and the mvp and I just said, you know, if the Pacers win this thing, Rick Carlisle should get the MVP trophy.

[Don Hahn]

So. Oh, yeah, that. That said, as soon as these finals are over, shouldn't the Knicks be calling Indiana?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Great point.

[Alan Hahn]

Former Nick Rick Carlisle, by the way. Just say it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

Just saying.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, we got tons of calls. People want to talk about this. We got to get to the Kreider trade because that has a lot of ramifications, a lot of rumors that he may not be the only one that goes. Maybe we'll get some information on Senga Judge hits another home run last night. And we never got to it yesterday because we were so busy with the Knicks and stuff, but we got it. We got to play some Aaron Glenn sound, man. We can do that. Yes, because there's a lot going on in Jetland too. But we got an opportunity to talk to Joe Theisman. He usually joins us once a year talking about the American Century Championship celebrity golf tournament that he's going to be playing in out in Lake Tahoe, but promote that. But he's a great guy to talk to with everything going on in football. You know, Roger's going to Pittsburgh and just the expectations of the commanders moving forward and just what his thoughts on the draft and Shador. I mean the one thing, you know, Peter, he's very opinionated.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he doesn't hold back.

[Don Hahn]

He's always a good guy to talk to. So want to leave some time for him. So we're going to talk to Joe. Coming up at 4:30, we're gonna have the Thursday rewrite. Rewrite, which we got that. So thank you because that was. That did not fall out of my mouth the way I wanted it to. And then 6 o' clock we got ENN. We got a full vehicle. At some point we're gonna be on 880 because the Met game will end. The Mets are up four nothing in the eighth. But right now we're full ESPN New York vehicle. So climb aboard. Joe Theisman's coming up next. All happening here on Don Han and Rosenberg on ESPN New York and ESPN New York app.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Michael Kay]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Michael Kay]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Joining us now is Lunchbury Washington quarterback Joe Theisman. He'll be participating in the 36th American Century Championship Celebrity Golf Tournament in Inglewood, Tahoe Golf Course in California next month. He's one of our favorite guests. You can throw anything at him, primarily football for sure, but always good to talk to the great Joe Theisman here on Don. Hunter Rosenberg, how are you, sir?

[Joe Theisman]

MICHAEL I'm great. Oh, thank you so much for the appreciation. I appreciate that. It's always great to catch up with.

[Don Hahn]

You and there's so much to talk about, but first and foremost, I just having the opportunity to talk to you. We lost Mike Patrick a few weeks ago and he was a legend. You guys worked so well together on Sunday Night Football. Just your thoughts on the passing of what I thought was one of the legendary broadcasters in our business.

[Joe Theisman]

I think he was an icon in our business. I mean, Michael and I go all the way we went all the way back to the to the late 80s when we started together at ESPN and just started we'd only did half the season at that time. And then I was in the studio the other half and then Paul joined us and we just had a ton of fun. I mean, Mike, Michael was the consummate professional. As a matter of fact, I started my broadcast career doing ACC basketball and I ran into Mike one day and I said, wouldn't it be great if we could work together? And lo and behold, a year later, we wound up at ESPN together. But, you know, Mike was sort of the, the mortar that held the bricks together. Paul and I were like bricks throwing them at one another half the time. And Michael just, Michael just sort of held everything together. And he sorely missed was a dear, dear friend. And we just happened to share the same birthday, too. So it was. It was doubly tough for me when I got the news that he had.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Passed on a much more upbeat front. Joe, I am the resident Commanders fan here and some would say one of the great Commander fans in New York City. How amazed were you with Jaden Daniels last year? And was it satisfying for you personally to finally see someone step into that position who you could believe could truly, truly be a great Washington quarterback?

[Joe Theisman]

I'll answer your second question first. I'm thrilled for Jaden, and I'm thrilled for what he's done. I'm thrilled for the way he conducts himself. I love the way he plays his game. I thought Cliff Kingsbury deserves a lot of credit as a coordinator, given him opportunities to be able to not only prove himself, but make plays. He does everything that you want from a quarterback very well. He makes good decisions. He throws the ball down the field well. And it's exciting to see somebody. It's exciting to have energy back in the city. It's been two decades since we've been able to really enjoy this kind of enthusiasm and energy and excitement. Excitement. And Jaden is really, you know, sort of the catalyst for it, what he's been able to do. To say that I wasn't surprised that he played this well would be a lot. I think I was surprised. I. You know, young quarterbacks, we saw with Caleb Williams, young quarterbacks struggle. CJ Stroud, a little bit of an exception to the rule a few years ago, but I think Jaden is just on a great path to be able to lead this football team for a long time. And, you know, big thing, Michael, just the whole thing is he's got. If he stays healthy, the sky's the limit for this football team and for him, and that's the big key. And the one thing that impressed me more than anything about him and having spent time with him, and that's all impressive, but I thought he did a really, really nice job of protecting himself by getting out of bounds, by sliding down, by not taking the unnecessary hits. I thought that just showed a sign of maturity and intelligence so that you can line up every day to practice and play, to get better.

[Alan Hahn]

Joe, I'm the new guy with the show with Michael, having his own show now as a solo. I am now with the guys. I'm Alan Han. So it's great to get to do this with you. Can we talk some quarterback play here? It's not a Trade, but it feels like a quarterback swap. Aaron Rodgers goes to Pittsburgh, Justin Fields goes to the Jets. They're going to meet each other right away to start the season. As if the NFL knew something. Did any. Which team maybe got the better of this? If you could say one of them did, what do you think?

[Joe Theisman]

I would have, you'd have to say Pittsburgh if you're going to say I don't know better. You know, you have a, you have a veteran quarterback, a four time MVP and a guy who's two years removed from an Achilles. So the injury is in the far distant past. So. And he throws the ball exceptionally well. It's going to be interesting in Aaron's case because remember he was the assistant general manager for the jets, right? I mean, let's, let's be honest about the whole thing. He made personnel decisions and that's what he was. And even, even latter part in Green Bay where people were sort of leaving there to go with him and all that kind of stuff, now he just gets to play quarterback in Pittsburgh. He's not involved in the personnel, he's not worried about the personnel, he's not worried about finding somebody. And I think that's going to serve him very well in Pittsburgh. Very well. Now how well he adjusts to what Arthur wants to do with the offense, that remains to be seen. And I've always been a fan of Justin Fields. I think he has tremendous athletic ability, but he also throws the ball well. And I think what Aaron's basically said to him is, hey, look, you need to be better at the throws that you're supposed to make. This is the whole thing about the quarterback position. There are throws that you have to make that you're supposed to make and that you should make. He had a tendency to miss those. You know, I watched, we had him here a few years ago in Washington. He had a guy wide open in the flat and just threw it over his head. You can't miss that and expect to play or lead your team to any kind of level in the NFL. I think this is a great opportunity for Justin. I think it's a chance for him to continue to grow because it is a process. But you're going to have to see him doing those things for people to get excited about him. With the jets, do you think Aaron.

[Don Hahn]

Glenn is going to make for a good coach?

[Joe Theisman]

I think he can. I think, you know, a lot of times people look at former players and they say, well, you know, they, they're, they're different. Everybody is different. You Know what's going to be Aaron's approach? Yeah, I mean, you know, you're basically talking about 53 babies. Okay. You know, it's like, did you raise all? Have you. How many children do you have, Alan?

[Alan Hahn]

I have four. Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Got a bunch.

[Joe Theisman]

Every one of them treated the same.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Joe Theisman]

Well, welcome, welcome, welcome to coaching. You now qualify as a coach for the NFL.

[Alan Hahn]

It's true, though. It's true.

[Joe Theisman]

It is true. I mean, but. And it's, you know, how do you talk to people? Certain guys you can yell at, they don't care. Other guys you yell at, they go into a shell. And I think that's going to be the thing that Aaron's probably going to, you know, have to figure out is who do I have? What's their personality and how can I get the best out of them? And everybody learns differently, too. It's a very interesting concept when it comes to guys in a meeting. Some guys are very good visually. So, in other words, if you put something up on the board and you draw it up, they understand it. If you have them read a book, a playbook, they really don't get it from a comprehension standpoint. So you have to figure out, and where do guys sit in a room? You know, I mean, some guys are better in the front of the room, some guys are okay in the middle, some guys are okay in the back. Where do you place your players? Where do you. Where do you station them? In the locker room to be able to have them work with one another, help one another? I mean, there's, you know, there's a myriad of things he's going to deal with. And I think he's very. I think he'd be very, very good at what he does now. He's just got to figure out the formula for what he has.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, Joe, I was considering making the trip when Washington goes to Arrowhead this year because my logic was, don't know if I'll ever have a reason to go see this version of the Chiefs again. You know, this, this. We don't play out there very often, and next time, Mahomes probably won't be the guy. Do you think that we're going to get another year of this version of the Kansas City Chiefs, or do you see them step back at this point?

[Joe Theisman]

I actually think we're going to get a better version of the Chiefs. I think they're. Andy is. I've had. I have so much respect for Andy Reid as a head coach. I mean, it just, you know, I ooze with it, I just think he's phenomenal. And the job he's done, you know, measure, you know, basically managing personalities and the situation with everything in Kansas City. I think Travis will come back with a vengeance. He's. I know just some of the things I've seen, the body. I know he was disappointed in last year, and I know Patrick was disappointed in last year, but to a degree, you know, when you look at the Kansas City Chiefs, the Super bowl this past super bowl looked just like the one against Tampa Bay. They didn't have an offensive line that could protect Patrick. That game was over from the get go. First snap, you know, when you, when you can rush four and drop seven in the NFL, I don't care who you are as a quarterback, you got a problem. And I think that they'll be back, like I said, I think they'll be back with a vengeance. I, you know, and keep in mind this is something people never really talk about is the Kansas City Chiefs in the last four years have played an entire season longer than everybody else now. And that wears on you. Your, your off season is shorter, your preparation is shorter. And I think there are factors that, you know, they basically, they ran out of gas. They managed to squeak by games at the end of the season. And you know, sometimes when you look at the final result and you look back a little bit, you say this was almost inevitable that might happen this way. And from, from my perspective, I think, I think they'll be back. I really, I think this is a good year, Michael, to make the trip.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, Joe, that's something Travis Kelsey talked about. It's like he almost like hit a wall that it was just so much and just every year. And that was why he was feeling like last year he was kind of feeling it. Realized he wasn't really the same. It is, it is a real thing. You know, it's funny the amount of success you have, you're just so used to see it. LeBron James in the NBA is the same thing like every year in the finals. You don't realize just how much more basketball that is compared to everyone else. There's a guy that's trying to get to the super bowl, it's Josh Allen. I wanted to ask you about him because the Bills, I think that the only team in the league that right now, their schedule, they are by according to Vegas, they're favored to win every game this season. Can he finally break through this year?

[Joe Theisman]

I think he can. I think, you know, two years ago I thought he made you know, bad decisions that really, especially going in, you know, inside the red zone and stuff. I thought he played really smart football last year. I thought he played terrific football last year. You know, obviously an MVP candidate going that way. But I really. I really, really think, feel like that this has got to be the year for the Bills. Forget about the, you know, what ifs. I think this is a year where they have to get it done or else, you know, attrition is going to catch up with them, too. Economics and attrition and age and all those factors go into where you are and what you do. But I think this is a. Is a very, very critical year for them.

[Don Hahn]

Joe, what was your thought on Shador Sanders dropping the way he did in the draft?

[Joe Theisman]

You know, I was surprised. I'll be honest with you. I thought he'd go higher. I thought Cleveland would take him in the third round as opposed to the fifth. I was surprised that Dylan Gabriel went ahead of him a little bit. But, you know, these coaches and scouts, they spend a lot of time looking at guys. Now, what was. What were the factors that forced basically, Shador to keep on falling? I mean, was it the fact that, you know, he scrambles around a lot? Was it the fact that Travis Hunter made some great continuing, can make great play after play after play in games? I think that, you know, I think he has the talent athletically now. Can he harness it? And here's. Here's. This is. This is the problem. You've got four quarterbacks in Cleveland. You've got three preseason games. You hardly have any practice time. How the heck are you going to make an evaluation on somebody? Joe's got to play a little bit. Okay, who's it. Who's next up? Kenny Pickett. Is that right? Yeah. So Kenny. Kenny's. If he's going to be your starter, he's got to play some. And then you've got the two young quarterbacks competing against one another. So what. What really happens is these, both Shadour and Dylan, they're under more pressure than you could possibly imagine, because every throw has to be analyzed and scrutinized because you're not going to have that many. It isn't like you're going to throw the ball 40 times a game and you complete 25, but you throw for 380 yards. It's not going to work that way for them. Every throw you make, every decision you make, every play you call in the huddle has to come out very simply and fluidly so that everybody understands every check you make every move by the defense has to be analyzed. That's all going to be scrutinized. Like I said, I was surprised Shadour went there, but it isn't. And it's never where you start in this business. Look at how many guys have been free agents and are in the hall of Fame. You know, I think he's going to come back with a vengeance, but we're not going to know because it's going to be so difficult to evaluate him because there just isn't enough playing time to say, okay, this is what he looks like.

[Don Hahn]

Joe tells me. Go ahead, Peter. I'm sorry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Last thing on the football before we talk about the great golf that you have going on. I know we're a ways away, Joe, but if you had to pick right now, could you make a guess at the AFC and NFC Championship games for this coming season?

[Joe Theisman]

Absolutely not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I appreciate that.

[Joe Theisman]

No, I mean, I think it. I think they're. I think they're wide open. I think, you know, the big thing is injuries. I mean, Kansas City's offensive line wasn't ready to handle the Eagles. The Eagles, you have to say, okay, that's, you know, they've reloaded a couple times. They're pretty darn good. The Commanders had a heck of a run last year. You know, you look, is Green Bay. Is, you know, Jordan Love going to. Going to step up? Is CJ Stroud going to step up in Houston? Where are they going to wind up going? You know, is Buffalo going to be able to compete? Everybody's talking about New England feeling really pretty darn good about themselves. Will the Giants be able to figure out their situation with their quarterback? Will Russell Wilson be able to go through the season, or is it going to wind up being Jameis Winston? I mean, is Kansas City. And like I said, if I was going to pick somebody who I thought might be there, I'd say Kansas City in the afc. I think that, like I said, I think they're going to come on back. As far as the NFC goes, you know, you saw Washington and Philadelphia in it. I think both those teams will be knocking on the door. But there's a lot of, you know, Chicago's a very interesting situation, and if Aaron, you know, plays really terrific football in Pittsburgh, are they going to be able to run the football to protect him? And will their defense be what it's always been? I mean, Mike Tomlin's done a phenomenal job with the players that he's had in Pittsburgh with really a turnstile operation. Where people are coming and going. So I would. I just, I couldn't. I thought, I thought about it, you know, as we get closer, you know, get into this tournament a little bit, and I see the guys, I'm thinking, who's going to be. But I really haven't been able to. You know, I could probably give you, you know, 4 and 4, but I certainly couldn't figure out who was going to be competing for the championship to go to the Super Bowl.

[Don Hahn]

Joe, tell us about the golf.

[Joe Theisman]

Speaking of golf, it's the, it's the American Century Golf Championship. It's in Lake Tahoe and it's. It's a fantastic operation. It's been 36 years we've been doing it. This is my 35th. I remember when we first started, you know, like I said, Almost 40 years ago, there were about 35 people on the 17th hole and one boat in the lake. Now there's 150 boats and about 25,000 people there. I mean, it's grown so much, we're expecting upwards of 70,000 people. The prize money is 750,000. 150 goes to first place winners. Marty Fish won it last year. Death didn't participate, couldn't defend because he was in Paris at the Olympics. But he's coming back. Tim Brown had a hole in one last year. Steph had a hole in one the year before. But we have a we. And obviously, you know, Travis and Jason will be there, and you know Charles Barkley and you know Aaron Rodgers. Annika Sorensen is one of my favorites to watch all the time. But we've added an element to it which is really fun. It's the American Century Fantasy Golf Contest, and you can log on to accfantasygolf.com and you'll find the rules, but I'll give them to you sort of simply put there. We're all broken down into five groups based upon your ability to play. You get to choose one player from each group, and obviously the tournament is the 11th through the 13th. So those three days, you don't have to keep the same players. You can change each day, but if you win that particular day, you. You get two tickets. The next year's tournament, if you win the overall prize, which means you've won it all, you get a $10,000 check to the charity of your choice and you get two tickets to next year's tournament. So the fantasy aspect of it, it's fun in everybody. I mean, there's 15 hall of Famers in and a bunch of Quarterbacks, some former, some current. And it'll be. It'll be televised on The Golf Channel. NBC. NBC, Peacock. The 11th of July through the 13th of July. And it's just a lot of fun. I mean, characters all over. I love. My favorite time is being on the range when I could walk around and visit with, you know, Tony and see Jerry Rice and Larry the cable guy and watch Charles. Charles actually hits the ball really well in the range. And he's played well. He's played better. Okay, let me put that way better. I mean, you know, I get a kick out of his commercials. They always refer back to his golf game. No matter what Charles is doing, it's always back to your golf game. I remember when he. When I first watched him swing, I thought, my God, this guy's gonna. He's gonna break his back or he's gonna break a leg or he's gonna do something that wouldn't he.

[Alan Hahn]

But, yeah.

[Joe Theisman]

Well, he didn't hit the ball. He couldn't hit the ball. It was going all over the place. But no, it's a. It's a wonderful thing. The other thing, too is American Century. As a company, they donate 40% of their profits to the Stower Institute in Kansas City for research on disease and cures. And, you know, the Lake Tahoe area has benefited to the tune of over $8 million to charities that we've been able to raise money for. So I'm very proud to be, you know, able to talk about this, to be a part of this particular tournament and the wonderful job that Americans Century has done continuing to try and make other people's lives better.

[Don Hahn]

Joe, you're the best, man. Thank you so much. Enjoy your summer. Good luck with the golf and hope to talk to you soon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks, Joe.

[Joe Theisman]

I hope so, too, man. I. I can't wait for the season. Thanks, guys.

[Don Hahn]

All right, that's Joe Theisman. Always great to talk to him.

[Michael Kay]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Michael Kay]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us.

[Alan Hahn]

Where?

[Michael Kay]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now it's time for the leaderboard update, brought to you by Samwell Institute for Pain Management. Don is locked in to Oakmont Country Club and Oakmont, Pennsylvania for the US still winning. Sorry?

[Don Hahn]

Is JJ still winning?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got big JJ Spawn four Under. Let's look for some names Don's familiar with. Beautiful. Brooks Koepka's two Under. Patrick Reed, AKA White Tiger. He's two back and two under. Collimore cowa one under as well. And Adam Scott is even. There you have it. Of course. We are just in the first round here. Day one from Oakmont. And that is your leaderboard update brought to you by Samuel as you for paying management for a pain free life is samwellpain.com today.

[Don Hahn]

I knew JJ Spawn was the leader because I had to do that read during the K show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And J and your man JJ was up top then too.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And apparently Joe Theisman still thought he was on the Michael K show, which is fine.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A compilation of the different times he said Michael.

[Alan Hahn]

I tried to explain it like as smoothly as I could by introducing in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The least awkward way. You did it. Here's the truth. Can I tell you the truth?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm gutless and, and I know Don's gutless love, but the best radio would have been to just stop everything. Go Joe. Got to tell you, buddy, you're not on the Michael K show, but you don't want to embarrass the person.

[Don Hahn]

You don't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Especially someone who's a legend, who we love.

[Alan Hahn]

Here's what we'll do though. Next time he's on, if he drops a Michael, then we have to do it. We have to stop and say, let's have an intervention.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think, I think even before Anthony next time. And I know you always remind people you're on with Don Allen and Peter. I know you do that. But next time you tell him again and say, in fact, last time you were on, you said Michael a few times and the guys might have some fun with you about it. And we play him the compilation.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, he would, he would, he'd find that funny.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I tell you though, like from a knowledge of everything, how good he still is and wait for it. Quality of phone line. That is a guy I talk to. I would talk to him weekly about football. He's very good.

[Don Hahn]

I, I think for that phone line and that knowledge, it's okay to just call me Michael because the story is I think we all got called Michael. So he, it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the interesting part. There wasn't one person he thought was Michael more than another. We were equally all parts Michael. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Around the Michael Case Show, Don Han Rosenberg, everybody's called Michael. But you know what? We just, we just got to put the egos aside.

[Alan Hahn]

Who's Cartwright? Apparently I'm Cartwright.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, what. Maybe is it possible he thinks Michael is not a person but like a.

[Don Hahn]

Way of life, like a concept?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's a concept. We're all like.

[Alan Hahn]

He heard it was the, the signal, so that's what he thought. That's the station.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what, Don? It's like the dude, it's like El Guapo. You know what I mean? We're all Michael.

[Don Hahn]

The Universal Michael.

[Alan Hahn]

By the way, Mets won Mets one, but hung on.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, my God, it was four. Nothing. Stanek didn't have a. Gave up three straight hits. And then Diaz threw like literally six consecutive balls and then gives up a base hit. And then it's 4:3 with one out. But the Mets were able to find a way to get out of it. And they hold on. They win 4:3 and they sweep the series and win their 45th game. So Yankees later on tonight against Kansas City, but I'm interested now that the game is over to get an update on Senga and hopefully Mendoza will have something sooner than later. The Post Game's on 880 right now, and they'll join us as soon as they're over. But hopefully we'll get.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And obviously, obviously, Don, we all want to hear what's up with with Kodai Senga. They cannot afford to lose him again. Second time in two years. But I just want to say there are a couple of Peter takes right now that are aging really well.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really well. No. Number one, my whole. I didn't even care was bored about the Soto criticism because in the end, he's just going to be Juan Soto. Don't look now. Another home run over.250 for the average. It's just he is now 40 fully. It's over. Like, in fact. And this is the thing about the media here, and this is why it's hard. It's back page of the paper. It's cute headlines, there's nicknames, there's all kinds of things to say. And then it's gone. It never happened. It's just like it's dead. And. And by the time we get to the All Star break, it'll be a completely distant, a complete distant memory that Soto was ever that guy. And then the other thing aging well, Don, I hate to do it, but our friend Alan Hahn here, you remember a couple of weeks ago, Allen Hahn crowned Oklahoma City. He gave him the trophy, handed him to Larry o' Brien.

[Alan Hahn]

Right about that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I said, let's not go and crown anyone who's never won a championship before because you never know what's going to happen. Now you want to crown them. I think there's still a good chance they Win this. They've done this in this playoffs before. Lost game one, won game two, went on the road, lost game three. So. But it is certainly feeling competitive here. Alan, had to tell you.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, they, they, they gave away game one, which is very. Again, that's what the Knicks did. But that game last night, when they, when, you know, I know we got to go here, but I'll just say quickly, they closed out the third, and I thought, okay, they're going to win this game. And then whatever the hell happened in that fourth quarter, it looked like they got tired, especially sga. And that, once again, that looked familiar. That's what the Pacers do to you. So maybe they're better than we thought they were New York fans, maybe the Pacers, not just New York. Well, I'm just saying for those in New York, they're like, we shouldn't have lost to that freaking team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, right, of course.

[Alan Hahn]

Maybe.

[Don Hahn]

But you know, what you thought. But it can also be spun in. This could be us.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, God, I don't. I know.

[Don Hahn]

You're right.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. I know you're saying, but that, but that.

[Don Hahn]

But people can do that. Like, oh, this Pacer team. If we had done what we were supposed to, beat the Pacers, we could have beaten the Thunder and we cost ourselves a championship. So I had mentioned it's not aging well for the Tibbs firing, that he blew the Pacer series. It may actually age better if the look is like, well, we cost ourselves a championship. But I don't buy that. But that still could be the way it's supposed to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If they beat Oklahoma City. If they beat Oklahoma City, it shows that literally there's not a soul. I think when they, when the NBA experts of ESPN picked the Finals, one out of 14 picked Indiana. So this would show that literally the world was raw in Indiana. And as Allen said earlier, give Rick Carlisle Coach of the Year, mvp, most improved, sixth man of the year. Give him everything, because as talented as they are, it's a, it's a brilliant thing to watch what he's doing with this team.

[Michael Kay]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Michael Kay]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.