Hour 1: Knicks Next Coach

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: Knicks Next Coach

Podcast Information:

• Title: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
• Hosts: ESPN New York, Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
• Episode: Hour 1: Knicks Next Coach
• Release Date: June 4, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off right after significant news breaks regarding the New York Knicks' head coach, Tom Thibodeau ("Tibbs"). Don Hahn, along with co-hosts Peter Rosenberg and Alan Hahn, delve into the implications of this leadership change and explore potential candidates to steer the franchise forward.

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2. The Firing of Tom Thibodeau

Don Hahn sets the stage by addressing the unexpected termination of Tom Thibodeau. He highlights the timing and the immediate impact on the team’s dynamics:

• Don Hahn [00:53]: “The day after the big news came down about Tibbs...”

3. Assessing the Current Situation

Peter Rosenberg shares his initial reactions and the behind-the-scenes challenges leading up to the firing:

• Peter Rosenberg [01:20]: “Yesterday after the show... there was a lot of scrambling going on there.”

He also touches upon his recent appearance on SportsCenter and the backlash he faced for his attire, adding a personal anecdote to the discussion.

4. Potential Candidates for the Knicks' Next Coach

The bulk of the discussion centers around identifying suitable candidates to fill the vacant head coach position. The hosts evaluate various prospects based on experience, reputation, and ability to "move the needle" for the Knicks.

Ime Udoka

Ime Udoka emerges as a prominent candidate:

• Peter Rosenberg [05:18]: “Ime Udoka was a former draft pick of the Knicks. He did actually play a little bit in the NBA in a Knicks uniform.”
• Don Hahn [07:55]: “Coaches, GMs, there's no limit.”

They discuss Udoka's background, his tenure with the Houston Rockets, and his connection to the Knicks, emphasizing his strategic value:

• Peter Rosenberg [06:54]: “Houston has no interest in entertaining that...”

Michael Nori

Another contender, Michael Nori, is introduced:

• Peter Rosenberg [18:21]: “Mike Inori is doing the interviews. And he's got a great personality...”

Nori is praised for his media skills and his role as an assistant coach with the Minnesota Timberwolves:

• Don Hahn [19:30]: “Yeah.”

Other Speculated Candidates

The conversation also touches on less conventional picks like Rajon Rondo and Jay Williams, though skepticism is evident regarding their readiness and fit for the Knicks:

• Peter Rosenberg [24:25]: “Jay Williams... feels a little too much like a new blood who's never done it before.”

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5. Criteria for the New Coach

The hosts outline what the Knicks are seeking in their next head coach, focusing on:

• Experience and Proven Success:

  • Don Hahn [08:14]: “Expensive things to buy in the world are the things that are not for sale.”

• Ability to Move the Needle:

  • Don Hahn [10:11]: “If you're really good at what you do as an executive, don't you scout coaching the way you scout players?”

• Cultural Fit and Leadership:

  • Peter Rosenberg [09:33]: “He has a plan or they have plans candidates in mind already.”

The importance of hiring a coach who can revitalize the team's culture and performance is emphasized throughout the discussion.

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6. Historical Context and Lessons Learned

Reflecting on past coaching hires, the hosts draw parallels to previous decisions and their outcomes:

• Peter Rosenberg [15:39]: “Pat Riley was the needle mover...”
• Don Hahn [16:01]: “Bill Belichick in New England...”

They analyze how marquee names like Pat Riley and Joe Torrey have impacted their respective franchises, underscoring the significance of reputation and proven track records.

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7. Organizational Strategy and Decision-Making

The dialogue delves into the Knicks' organizational strategy, questioning whether the decision to fire Thibodeau was influenced by a collective agreement among the front office, players, and ownership:

• Don Hahn [43:42]: “This was a collective. This was a collective.”
• Peter Rosenberg [44:20]: “But I am not pinning it on one entity. This was a collective.”

The consensus seems to be that the move was a result of prolonged concerns and collective decision-making rather than the action of a single individual.

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8. Listener Engagement and Call-In Segment

Towards the latter part of the episode, the hosts engage with listener calls, discussing public sentiment and additional candidate suggestions:

• Listener David [39:05]: “What would you guys prefer? Maybe Mike Malone...”

The exchange highlights the community's involvement and diverse opinions on the best path forward for the Knicks.

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9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Don Hahn and Peter Rosenberg reiterate the uncertainty surrounding the hiring process and the importance of making informed decisions:

• Don Hahn [50:25]: “We make our predictions before every season and it's wait and see. Who's right or wrong, and that'll be it.”

They emphasize the need for patience and await official announcements to evaluate the next steps for the Knicks.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Peter Rosenberg [05:18]: “I'm willing to pay a premium for him.”
• Don Hahn [08:14]: “Expensive things to buy in the world are the things that are not for sale.”
• Don Hahn [10:11]: “If you're really good at what you do as an executive, don't you scout coaching the way you scout players?”
• Peter Rosenberg [15:39]: “Pat Riley was the needle mover.”
• Don Hahn [43:42]: “This was a collective. This was a collective.”

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Insights and Takeaways

• Strategic Hiring: The Knicks are focused on hiring a seasoned coach with a proven ability to enhance team performance and culture.
• Collective Decision-Making: The decision to part ways with Thibodeau appears to be a unified choice by the organization, aiming for a significant turnaround.
• Potential Candidates: Ime Udoka stands out as a top contender, given his history with the Knicks and recent success with the Rockets.
• Organizational Pressures: Balancing the desire for a high-profile hire with practical considerations like contract obligations and fit within the team’s existing structure is a key challenge.
• Community Engagement: Listener input reflects a diverse range of opinions, indicating a passionate and invested fan base eager for positive change.

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This episode provides an in-depth analysis of the New York Knicks' coaching situation, offering listeners a comprehensive look at the factors influencing the decision-making process and the potential directions the franchise may take moving forward.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

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[Don Hahn]

She fell in love with the sex.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Han Sauce was everywhere.

[Alan Hahn]

And Rosenberg, if you want to stay.

[Unknown Speaker]

Up, he's got the energy that matters.

[Don Hahn]

This isn't North Dakota, this is New York.

[Alan Hahn]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg. John Frenchy Fuqua on 8:80, ESPN and the ESPN New York app, 3 o'.

[Don Hahn]

Clock in the big city. Don Han and Rosenberg take you up until 7 o' clock. The day after the big news came down about Tibbs. We'll get into the Mets and Yankees. Devin Williams making things nervous. Mets blow a lead in Los Angeles, but they also came back from a deficit. But Tibbs is still first and foremost on everybody's minds. But how are you guys doing? Everybody good?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Busy day.

[Don Hahn]

I can see it was busy for you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Busy.

[Unknown Speaker]

What do you had? So what do you got?

[Don Hahn]

So what do you got?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey. What? Yesterday after the show, the commute home, there was a lot of chatter.

[Unknown Speaker]

What do you mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just, you know, you start catching up. Because that was, what was it, 20 minutes before the show?

[Unknown Speaker]

I'd say 2:44.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It broke 16 minutes before the show. So there's a lot of scrambling going on there. By the way, I got panned for the white T shirt and the zip up I had going. No, you didn't. Oh, no, no, you didn't. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

By who? Yo yos on Twitter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The people. Right? The people that like it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Those aren't people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can't this guy get a shirt? Being I'm being told about how you're supposed to keep a suit in the office. And I'm like, office?

[Don Hahn]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What, What, What? What if it's. What am I? What am I?

[Don Hahn]

I kept a jacket.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What am I, an executive assistant? Like, I. I don't.

[Unknown Speaker]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is not office.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, there was a time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't have an office. Do we have offices?

[Don Hahn]

There was a time I hung a jacket on the coat rack and somebody took it home.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don Hahn]

What do you think they're gonna do with a God?

[Unknown Speaker]

Did you ever get that back?

[Don Hahn]

I did, eventually. Whoever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or did they just leave it?

[Don Hahn]

Never found out.

[Unknown Speaker]

They. They just left it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love It. So they heard about it, brought it back, hung it where they took it.

[Unknown Speaker]

And walked with their tail between their legs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're probably wearing gloves when they hung it back.

[Don Hahn]

I can imagine. I don't think they do that with a suit. The suit would come back altered and wouldn't fit.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It would have to come back altered because you imagine that whoever gets it, they'd realize that it doesn't fit you. But anyway, so, yeah, I took a beating for that. And then I was supposed to be on Sports center this morning. All right, cleared.

[Unknown Speaker]

You got bumped. Who'd they bump you for?

[Peter Rosenberg]

J.B. bickerstaff. I mean, that's a pretty good bump.

[Don Hahn]

What are you complaining about?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm just saying, like, when I first got the. You're cleared for tomorrow morning, I thought, see, I blew it. What you get for wearing a T shirt on the six o' clock sports.

[Don Hahn]

That's the nice way of saying that you've.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I'm good.

[Don Hahn]

You're good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's your.

[Don Hahn]

What's your line?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

By the way, I tell you what, it bothered. You're cleared.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It bothered me.

[Don Hahn]

You're.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, you're cleared.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're cleared.

[Don Hahn]

I had a first take.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, I had a first take where I had at least, like, one more segment. And they just came in. They're like, hey, Peter, you're clear today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, you're clear.

[Unknown Speaker]

We're all set. Yeah, but they say.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They say it's such a nice way of basically, like, you're out of here. We're done with you.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey, you can go. Don't worry about it.

[Unknown Speaker]

They're trying to make it feel like, isn't this good news? You get to go home. Which on some level it is, but. But you also go, but what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I'm good.

[Don Hahn]

I'm here already. I'm dressed.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm ready to go. I can do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But then. But then I saw J.B. bickerstaff, the head coach of the Detroit Pistons, and I was like, but do they. And he's like. He said, I have to do the Sports center here. I'm like, oh, all right. So they. Okay, that's all right. I mean, if I'm getting bumped by an NBA head coach who just not being bumped because I wore a T shirt, I'm being bumped because. Oh, oh, we've got an NBA head coach. Let's get his thoughts.

[Unknown Speaker]

He just had a series against the man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, all right. So I felt better about that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do we know anything new today? Well, that we didn't know yesterday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll tell you what, there was a name that I saw. So Mark Stein is a well known NBA reporter.

[Don Hahn]

Oh yeah, he used to come on the case.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was a, he was a New York Times guy for a while. Yeah. But he lives in, I believe he lives in Texas.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, Dallas guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he's got one of the, one of the, I think, most valuable substacks in the NBA. He's got a ton of subscribers. Like, this guy's legit. Just so if anybody doesn't know, I'm talking about he's got cred. He had an interesting name that he put in his people the Knicks could look at. And I saw it and I was like, okay, that got my attention. And then I checked it with some other people and it's like, okay, that checks out. And I mean, Stephen A. Even uses name today. And so that name. Remember I told you they could go find a coach who's still working for a team right now, Right?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, this, this guy is working for a team right now. In fact, he's working for a playoff team. In fact, that playoff team, they were, I believe they were maybe a third seed in the, in the, in the West. That's Ime Udoka. Okay, that's an interesting name, wouldn't you say? Well, very Celtics, former Celtics coach. He went through a lot of that controversy in Boston. They had to fire him. Yes, The Nets were going to hire him. And then that got. After all that stuff came out that ended up, they backed away from that. The Rockets hire him and he's back in the league and he's having success there and just going way back in time. Imi Odoka was a former draft pick of the Knicks. He did actually play a little bit in the NBA in a Knicks uniform. And so I'm like, okay, a lot of that stuff checks out. Makes sense. That's not a bad name. He still has money left on his contract in Houston, but you would think that the power and might of the big market, you know, we can give you an offer you can't refuse. Right, right. So I was like, all right, there's a name I'll keep an eye on. Okay, well, the Athletic is a Rockets reporter, Kelly Aiko for the Athletic in Houston, who said this a little while ago regarding reports identifying IME Odoka as a possible target for the vacant Knicks coaching position. Houston has no interest in entertaining that both parties are committed to the long term project and are actively preparing for a busy off season. Now, don't I'm going to lean on your experience in this business.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When you see that type of a. Clearly, that's a statement, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. And it's no interest. Does that tell you, case closed, Forget it. Take that name off the list, move on. Or do you have another thought?

[Don Hahn]

No, my thought is, is that there's still the possibility. That's always the first feeling. Right. It's like the kiss of death from the owner. We have no intention of firing this coach. And then a week later, they fire.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

It's just an instinct to say, hey, we're not going to be had because they're going to probably maybe want something in return if he's under contract. I always look at the first salvo is going to be, no, not happening. No, no, no. But you start asking, you start prodding, and all of a sudden now you'll start to see it cycle in a different direction. So it might, it might be truthful, but my instinct is I don't. I don't buy it for a second.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It almost feels like you do that to make it clear it's going to be expensive.

[Don Hahn]

Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you really want this guy, you're going to have to make us change our mind, because our initial reaction is we're not letting him go for nothing.

[Don Hahn]

Exactly. And then the way to do that is make them say that, hey, if we don't get what we want, we're more than happy to keep them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep. There's no reason to not. We want them. We don't want to let them go.

[Don Hahn]

Expensive things to buy in the world are the things that are not for sale.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, yeah, that's deep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's true. That's a really good.

[Don Hahn]

Because it's. Once it's for sale, you lose leverage. I don't want this anymore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I've put a for sale sign on my car, my house, that I'm telling you, I don't want this anymore. But when you let the world know you want it, you don't want to part with it. The person that really wants it's not going to, what, drive up the price.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Like. So that's what you're hoping for. And Knicks want them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. Yeah. How bad you want them?

[Don Hahn]

How many first round picks you willing to give me? I'll let them go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, you don't have any.

[Don Hahn]

Well, then. Oh, that's. That's an issue then. So maybe let me take a look at your house.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, you also don't want how much.

[Don Hahn]

Money hanging around that Deep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's. That's what it is. Because you don't want a head coach that deep down is like, I really want that job. Right. And he can't initially come out and say that, so he has to also just say, no, I'm committed here. This is where I want to be. But you know what else he's committed to? He's got two years left on his deal. He's probably committed to. And by the way, when they signed him, because he was an available coach, but there was a lot of baggage with him after what happened with his situation in Boston. And therefore, when you get a coach like him who had status, remember he did a great job with the Celtics. You know this better than anybody.

[Unknown Speaker]

That. That initial, we thought. I thought that was it. We found the future Brad Stevens and beyond.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah. No, it was very good. And because of the baggage and because there was a lot of teams that wouldn't bring him back in, and they got him at a severe discount.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And so if you're him and his agent, you're like, all right, you want to keep him, make him one of the highest paid coaches in the league.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because you got a deal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Knicks certainly would be willing to make him the highest paid coach in the league. I'm just saying, like, if the Knicks want him, they want.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look, the one thing I've always said, there's no cap on infrastructure. I could spend whatever I want on anything outside of play.

[Don Hahn]

Coaches, GMs, there's no limit.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And if I am in the biggest market and I have some of the deepest pockets in the league, I want the best of the best. That's what I want. If you want to win a championship, I want the best of the best. And if you identify him as somebody that you feel is one of the best in the league, then I'm willing to pay a premium for him. And if. And the Rockets might say, we're not willing to pay that. Well, we are. And then maybe that's. Then When Udoka says, look, why don't we just call it what it is here?

[Don Hahn]

See that. That's why if. If Houston was serious about keeping him and serious with that note that they sent that they want to move, they would give him a contract extension. They would give him more money.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You would think.

[Don Hahn]

So then. Then that would send the world that, no, no, he's not going anywhere. That doesn't happen, then that means you can get him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Now, you mentioned about, you know, moving the needle, or they feel like he's the guy. When I was driving in today, Michael was going over the list that we went over yesterday, you know, and this guy's a needle. Jason K. Could be a needle mover. This could be a needle mover that doesn't really move the needle. I don't think that matters to them. Like, we always. Our first.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's only one needle, Don.

[Don Hahn]

Right. And that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's the needle that needs to move. Where?

[Don Hahn]

Well, I guess Leon Rose and in the locker room.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dolan in the locker room.

[Don Hahn]

Well, ultimately, that it fits what they want to do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Because our instinct. My instinct always is. All right, well, they just let go of Tom Thibodeau. He just went to the conference final. You're going to have to bring somebody in that has experience, somebody that maybe has won before. And you start rattling off names, and a lot of those names are already under contract. But then I started looking around the landscape of sports and I'm looking at the guys that have won championships, that are competing for championships now, and I go, those aren't needle movers, especially when they were hired. So it's all about what they think works for them, not what's going to splash on the back page of the paper or what's going to be the lead story where the fans are going to cheer for. It might end up being somebody where you're like a big collective yawn, but ends up being the guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Because I started looking who's competing for a championship in the NBA. Right. You've got Carlisle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

And Dagna.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

Dag.

[Don Hahn]

I don't. Definitely in Oklahoma City. I don't think they had a parade when they hired him. There was no experience there, remember?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think. Was it Scott Brooks?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was the guy. Did he replace Scott Brooks?

[Don Hahn]

I think he did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Scott Brooks was an experienced coach, but. And it was Scott Brooks. It was also. He's in the. Florida coach, Billy Dunham.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Those were the two coaches they had before.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who was a G. I think he was their G League coach. I believe he grew up with a lot of the players.

[Don Hahn]

Right. So that. That obviously didn't get everybody excited. It was probably a collective. Who's that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Or really. The Stanley cup final is going to start tonight in Edmonton. Evanston. Stanley Cup.

[Unknown Speaker]

They're still doing the Stanley Cup.

[Don Hahn]

Their head coach.

[Peter Rosenberg]

God, are they doing it?

[Unknown Speaker]

It's not.

[Don Hahn]

It's Chris Knobloch. I don't think they went nuts in Edmonton. They're probably like, is that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that Chuck's son?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Yeah. Is that Chuck's son? I don't know who that is. Is that the guy that couldn't throw to first base? No, he was the Harford Wolf Pack coach. And now he's in his second consecutive Stanley cup final. Paul Maurice was the definition of a journeyman. Carolina, Toronto resigned in Winnipeg. Paul Maurice, really?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And what does he do? He's now looking to win his second consecutive Stanley Cup. It is the third consecutive Stanley cup final.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It just hit. It just hit.

[Don Hahn]

Peter, do you think in Kansas City they're like, yes, we got Indy Reid, the guy that couldn't win in Philadelphia. They could not get Philadelphia without. Now he's going to lead us. And now he's on his waltzing into the hall of Fame. Right. You know, it's not about what news the needle. It's not about what the fans want, it's about what you want. So don't be surprised, guys, if there's a collective yawn for who they hire.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know what, ultimately, how does he play? Let me get it real quick, Alan. It also could be that that's what you want. That the thing that would make you go, ooh, ooh, ooh isn't what would be the real thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's. Well, it's very true. And you know, it's funny because if you think about it, Pat Riley was the needle mover. They needed a needle mover right back then, early 90s, when they brought in Pat Riley.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they convinced him to take the job. He had been between. He left the Lakers, he was working for NBC. They convinced him to take the job. He wasn't taking the job. If Patrick Ewing didn't say he's committed to staying the two meters. Patrick Ewing said, I'm staying. Pat Riley said, all right, let's do it. Then they had a four year run that we have. We haven't seen since the closest we came. Oh, by the way is Tom Thibodeau when It comes to 50 win seasons consecutively. But Pat Riley left because he got a great opportunity that he has never left from, which is Miami Heat. The Knicks pivoted from Pat Riley and they brought in Don Nelson. Don Nelson was a needle mover. Yes, because that was a name. He was a name and he was a somebody and he did some winning and he also was a really good player as well. A Boston Celtic, but a really good player. Problem is he did not fit at all. Wasn't the right fit, but he was a needle move. He was a big name splash. It was all right. We went from one marquee coach to another. He lasted what? He lasted a year and a half, and Patrick had. Was done with him. And they knew we have to move on. And Jeff Van Gundy became the interim head coach because they had to finish the season, and the rest is history.

[Don Hahn]

And he gets it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he was a guy like. You looked at Jeff Van Gundy as head coach. Used to have to show his ID to get in the damn building. That's how unassuming he was. He did not look the part, but he was the part. Yes.

[Don Hahn]

You know, and the list goes on and on. Joe Torrey replacing the Buck Showalter. Clueless Joe. What did Joe do?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What resume does he have?

[Don Hahn]

What did. What did Joe ever do? What do you do with the Mets?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Nothing. But. And then he ends up. You rattle off five championships with him, and he becomes a legend. Bill Belichick in New England, Really? The guy that won one playoff game in Cleveland. He's going to be our savior. Greatest coach in history of football. Who was Bill Parcells? He was our defensive coordinator as a former linebackers coach. He was never head coach before Air Force, and he ends up being the greatest coach in Giants. It just goes on and on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It does happen.

[Don Hahn]

It's not about the press conference. It's not about how the fans get nuts. It's. It's about who they identify is the right guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But sometimes you got to shake the room and get the room's attention. And sometimes that does take a guy with a resume like I've always, like, you walk in the room and every head goes up because they know who you are. Right? There is no, like, what's this guy about? Who's this guy? All right, let me feel. No, sometimes you hire somebody that walks in the room. Scotty Bowman walks into Detroit. Do you think any of those players are like, and what's this all about? No. You knew who. What the hell that was all about.

[Don Hahn]

If they didn't know who he was, their dad could tell him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, but it doesn't matter. The point is there's a legend in the room. Of course I know who this guy is.

[Don Hahn]

Bill Jackson would walk into a room like, oh, like, there's certain guys, their rings are jingling and jangling. They walk in. What did Pat Riley do when he was trying to get LeBron James?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Threw the rings on the table.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But you know what also shakes up a room, and this is what the Rangers didn't do and the Knicks should do, is. All right, all right. We don't we didn't get the guy. We found the guy. It's now on you because. Because if it doesn't work now, we might be looking at you. Clear being the reason that wakes up the room, too. Like, I'm not going to keep firing coaches until you guys get it right. We fired the guy. We didn't think he was the guy to get it done. Sounds like some of the guys in the room didn't think he was the guy that was going to get it done. We're bringing in this guy, and now if this guy doesn't work, don't be shocked if it's the one that you're the one that's gone and not him. That shakes up the room to me. Are they willing to go there, or did they just break the seal on now every two years changing coaches? Because that's what the Rangers ended up doing. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's what you don't want to start doing. I'm going to give you another name. All right? Now, this isn't based on anything I've been told or anything like that. This is one of those where I start reading tea leaves.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's an assistant coach with the Minnesota Timberwolves who was close with Carl Anthony Towns. Name's Mike Inori. When he. When Chris Finch, I think it was last year, if I don't remember, remember when there was a play, like, to the sideline and he got taken out and the head coach of the Timberwolves, like, blew out his knee and he was like. He was on a cart sometimes during.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So Mike and Nori was doing the interviews. And he's got a great personality, really good. The media. He turns a phrase like very smart, sharp wit, all that stuff. But he also is a very valued assistant coach for Finch who, you know, is part of their planning and all that stuff. And he's a guy that feels like a head coach in the way. And they've had great success there. Gerson Rosas was in the front office with the Timberwolves before he was with the Knicks, and he hired Finch. And conversely, also, you know, Norrie's brought in all that stuff. So what if that's like. So there's, I think, Don the name, like the type of coach I think you're talking about.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Which is a coach in waiting that is known that players, like, including a guy on your team, one of your stars, knows him. Could that be, you know, a direction? Like, does that fill that kind? Does that check the boxes you're talking about on that level. Yes. Where it's not a name. Where if you told every. Any Nick fan listening right now is like, who Michael? What? But if you're a basketball fan and you pay attention, you know exactly who I'm talking about. Does that fit? Does that check that box? Because to me, the reports about Udoka caught my attention because before all the stuff when he was in Boston, this guy was like considered. Well, this guy's really good, accountable, holds his players accountable, tough on his players, smart as hell, they're prepared. He whipped a young team into shape and got them to be very competitive. Took them to a finals they weren't ready to win yet, but he took them to a Finals. Tough minded guy. Already did the big market thing. Already did the legendary franchise thing. Learned under Greg Popovich. Like all the stuff that you're looking for, that guy's got the resume that you want. But if you can't do, if you can't draw somebody like that out. I brought up Ty Lu. There's no way Ballmer's letting him out. Tyler's in la. Like I'm giving up on that. But that's. That that'd be my first choice. Jeff Van Gundy doesn't seem like he really wants to be a head coach again or would it even be here? So I'm trying to find people that a move the needle. That's Udoka. But a Nori, Michael Nori is a name that, it's like he could be one of those next one type of coaches like Dagnol is in okc.

[Don Hahn]

If you're, if you're really good at what you do as an executive, don't you scout coaching the way you scout players? If you see something that you believe, I, maybe not right away, but I think this guy's got all checks, all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The boxes and agencies also represent them.

[Don Hahn]

Well. I'm trying to let the audience know we're going to get your calls in at 1-800-919-3776. Is that the box that does not exist in the Knicks front office is what moves the needle for the fans? That I don't think that's a box they check. Like when they sit down and they've got their guys, it's like we think we found the perfect person. And then somebody in the room goes, we can't hire him because nobody knows who he is. Like that matters to fans. It matters to us. Because listen, you want the more sexy the hire, the more buzz around the hire, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're not trying to sell tickets they're okay.

[Don Hahn]

You're not trying to sell. That's. See, that's the point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're trying to get your team. You're trying to grab your team by the throat and shake it into getting back to understanding that you're accountable for your actions and that next season is going to be as much the spotlight on all of you as it is on the new headsets.

[Don Hahn]

No, I'm not trying to sell tickets. They already sell tickets. I'm trying to win a championship, and who's going to get me there? All right, and you look at what's currently right now is going. Look at the Mets, right? Is Carlos Mendoz. Was that a sexy hire? I know he came from the Yankees, but no experience. Nobody really knew who he was. And now he's looked upon as one of the better managers of baseball. I think every Met fan in the world's happy to have him, but at the time, it was like, oh, Carlos Beltran, boy, did that move. The needle. It pinned the needle. It's Carlos Beltran. Right. When they hired Buck, that pinned the needle. Yep, because it was Buck Showalter, but Carlos Mendoza, and it worked. That's what they're looking at, guys. So some organizations, I think maybe, you know, I'm sure Lou lamarillo, when he hired Patrick Waugh, one of the boxes are. What's going to get people excited about are the Islanders. Because I think the Islanders were in a position. I want to sell tickets. I want people talking about it, too. I think Patrick Waugh fits, but an added bonus is he might sell some tickets to make us relevant.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

But I don't think the Knicks have to worry about being relevant. They don't need to sell one ticket off this hire. What they want is the guy that's going to lead them there. And I can't kill the Tibbs fire until I see who it is and what he does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Exactly.

[Don Hahn]

We didn't have that luxury yesterday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you're right. No, no. You're 24 hours later. It's the way it goes. But that. That's kind of how I felt last night as the dust continued to settle. As you get over the initial shock and dismay and, you know, I had a couple of friends that lost jobs. I felt. I felt personally bad about it.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But once the dust settles and you get some of the intel and you understand that there was a handful of players that met with the front office and the owners, and they all expressed how they felt about what the season was like and where they need to Go forward. And the decision collectively was, well, if this doesn't feel like we're going any further, if we have plateaued, then why wait into the season and make a, you know, be forced to make a coaching change mid season. No, just do it now. And so now it's like, okay, now where do they go? And now we're trying to figure out those puzzle pieces. Now I'm just throwing out some names like.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jay Williams brought up Rajon Rondo, who's never coached. He's, he's been like a, a coach, like he's helped out, he's done training camp. Rondo's a smart player. He was a very smart player. He does want to coach. That to me is one of those that like the Charlotte Hornet should hire a guy like that.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's an insane swing for a team in this place and in this market.

[Peter Rosenberg]

JJ Redick with the Lakers, but there's no LeBron here.

[Unknown Speaker]

Correct.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker]

That's not, that is so I, I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love Jay, but that feels, that feels a little too much like a new blood who's never done it before. I don't think this is the right animal.

[Don Hahn]

It's dangerous. I, and I respect him for doing it because you could run it back with Thibodeau and it would not necessarily be wrong.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

Look what he's accomplished. Three consecutive 50 win seasons. But they want something different. So it puts again a lot of pressure on whoever comes back in because they're going to feel like you're going to be able to do what a pretty good coach couldn't do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

And that's the ultimate goal. 1-800-919-3776 we got a big show. We got a huge list curated predominantly by Alan.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well listen, sometimes that was done this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Morning during get up.

[Don Hahn]

Everybody contributed to this. So we're looking forward to that. At 4:30 and enn like you read about and listen for at 6:00 clock.

[Unknown Speaker]

Read about and listen and how about this?

[Don Hahn]

Ty Butler in for Dan Grass at seven.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh man. We love ourselves, we love Dan, but we love some tie too.

[Don Hahn]

You know what I think we could do? I don't know. I didn't run it by you guys.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right.

[Don Hahn]

I don't want to be too forward.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think I know where you're going.

[Don Hahn]

I think we bring Ty in the last.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like it. Crosstalk.

[Don Hahn]

What do you think?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's do it. Would love some crosstalk Monday, it's hump day. Let's do a crosstalk all right, this.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Unknown Speaker]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Game Time is brought to you by Tele Bardu Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See what happens here.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's tolly time. There you go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love it.

[Don Hahn]

Continue their series with the Dodgers with the coverage immediately following Ty Butler right here on 880 at 9 30. Oh yeah. Mets came back from 41 down, but then they lost the game in the 9th, lead in the 9th and lost in 10. Yankees faced the Guardians at 705. And Devin Williams, walk of the tightrope last night.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, still giving you that. Well, but at least he came through.

[Don Hahn]

They did, but. But it's still giving up a run throwing 30 pitches.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Better story. Don, if you want to. I know you're trending negative because it's the Yankees. But. But you know, Jazz Chisholm at third. Like I'm, I'm good. Like you're all set. Let him be there.

[Don Hahn]

Let him be there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he's. And he's all open for. Like you talk about a team player. Remember he was supposed to move the second base. That was. But DJ LeMayhue, as we know, you got to keep him in second. Right. So. And Jazz at third and he's fine with it. That's a team player salute.

[Don Hahn]

And Tullamore due is the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Telemore do and try the new Tullamore Dew Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore do responsibly. Also on TNT tonight, game one of the Stanley Cup Final. And tomorrow at 8:30, game one of the NBA.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm locked in tonight because I feel like Oilers. It's your home game. It's it. I hate must win the odd games. The odd number of games to me are always must win 1, 3, 5, 7. Those are the must win games for the home team. You gotta win that game.

[Don Hahn]

And what's the NBA after tonight? Are they Thursday, Saturday?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a good question. Thursday, yeah. Thursday, Saturday. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

The NHL would always give no Thursday.

[Unknown Speaker]

Sunday It's Sunday. Finals are always interesting.

[Don Hahn]

Nothing on set. I'm surprised.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm surprised there's a Sunday.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hold on. Just so you know, I haven't looked. I'm just betting this on my experience. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

It's Thursday.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't get these things wrong. I don't do these things.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How you're not giving me a Saturday night.

[Unknown Speaker]

I never do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don't give me this 3:30 on Sunday crap.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's 9:00. Clock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

9:00 clock on a Sunday?

[Unknown Speaker]

Alan, welcome.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Adam. Why are we doing this by the way? It's bad enough it's two markets nobody wants to watch. You're not giving me a Saturday night NBA finals game. You're giving me a Sunday night. I got things to do. It's the East Coast. You're losing the East Coast. Losing it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Don. Your sworn enemies on tv.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, I got. I got an off the air story about this. Don't say the name. Just don't say it on the air. I got an off the air story.

[Unknown Speaker]

You do?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

When you know what you did?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know. I walk. I was walking out at the time. I have an off the air story.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's a doozy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Really. But you can't repeat it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, that's. No.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the way I feel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don't bring it there. No. Well, but it's like I heard this.

[Don Hahn]

I was like damn, I'm really intrigued. Let's get the break. At some point anyway. Usually the NHL when they start on a Wednesday would go Wednesday, Saturday. Because Saturday that's. That's a hockey night in Canada they're. They're doing Wednesday, Friday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like it.

[Don Hahn]

Something happening Saturday. Like why are we avoiding Saturday? The building's not available.

[Unknown Speaker]

Belmont money in the bank is Belmont.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Monday, Saturday up in Saratoga.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Belmont. That's not normally you.

[Don Hahn]

Belmont usually.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Remember Belmont used to lead into on NBC back in the day.

[Don Hahn]

But we did.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh yeah.

[Don Hahn]

We haven't yet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Belmont it is.

[Don Hahn]

Well, but there's no triple like you dream about.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, there's no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's still. You're still going to get. But that doesn't go up against it. That's done by. Done by seven o' clock.

[Don Hahn]

Maybe it's building availability or they. Maybe they just. Saturday night just doesn't move it for them. I don't know. Does ABC have something on Saturday right now? Just. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have a moment. He had a moment. I should have a moment. We'll give Peter one later.

[Unknown Speaker]

I Would love a moment.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Have a moment before we get to the calls.

[Don Hahn]

I'm trying to understand. It's our company. I need to know. I need to have a meeting with Bob Iger or something.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, that seems likely.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah, we can make that happen.

[Don Hahn]

I walk into his building and go to Flick every afternoon.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Still help.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know, spending money.

[Don Hahn]

Anyway, do you see what they do on Sunday night on abc? They throw a Disney movie on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, this is new.

[Don Hahn]

It was it inside out was the 9 o' clock. 9 to 11. What are you doing? What kid on a Sunday night?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, not in the East Coast. It's the east coast bias. They hate us.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know, I've never seen that before.

[Don Hahn]

No, they probably air it at 9 o' clock. On the west coast they got America's Funniest Home Video 9.

[Unknown Speaker]

Which by the way, that's a punt too. Let's just be honest.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not watching that.

[Don Hahn]

But I understand in the YouTube era.

[Unknown Speaker]

I gotta watch Carlton go break down home videos. Come on, Bob.

[Don Hahn]

If I were a kid and they were putting a kid's Movie on at 9 o' clock when I was a kid, I'd watch it at 9:00. It ends at 11. I mean, the kids would've liked to watch it. The kids go to bed at 9:30. They're half hour in, they gotta go to bed. And with the commercials, they barely got the plot going yet.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, that's a great point.

[Don Hahn]

Who are you airing that for?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, that's the thing, but also the way movies are these days, what every kid has seen the Disney movies they want to see, you can watch them so many places.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I ask another question?

[Unknown Speaker]

It's punting is what it is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, let me throw this out here. So the Stanley Cup Final, even when it's in Edmonton, 8:00pm Eastern, every puck drop. 8:00pm in the NBA Finals, it's later. 8:30.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Only 8:00 o' clock is the Sunday night. Thank you for the extra half hour. 8:30. What's the extra half hour? What are we doing? Why are we doing 8:30?

[Don Hahn]

I mean, I think the difference in the half hour, they want to go as late as possible for the west coast because God knows, the first minute of an NBA game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's make sure all the population that is out there in New Mexico, Arizona, let's make sure they all.

[Don Hahn]

Kay would always get mad at me, but I. And Peter's gonna be sick and tired of me saying this, but I'm going to say new show, new Signal, say it with your chest, is that they're worried that the west coast is going to miss the first quarter, but they're okay with the east coast missing the fourth quarter. Does that make sense? I'm sure all those people on the west coast in Oregon, California, Washington, I'm sure they're good in the first quarter. If they watch Pacers, Knicks, the first quarter didn't matter. Heck, the first three quarters almost didn't matter. Right. But all the people in New York, in Boston, all these major cities on the East Coast. No, we're going to make you decide if you want to stay up till 11:30.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

But that means to me, Albuquerque, we.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Missed the first quarter.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, by the way, why are you just saying Albuquerque and not focusing on la, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, there's some big cities out there.

[Don Hahn]

But the beginning of the game, Peter.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, hold on. So let's just stop.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm sorry. Philadelphia, New York, Boston, not important, but real Miami.

[Unknown Speaker]

But before you go your east coast tantrum, what would be the appropriate time? Because it is extremely early.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Eight o' clock?

[Unknown Speaker]

No, no, but hear me out. It's extremely early for people who work real hours. Like, realistically, the average mom and dad who are working and hustling and running around and doing stuff often are walking in the house at 7 o' clock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do the population numbers. Put the population numbers together.

[Unknown Speaker]

But there's still a lot of people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a lot of people.

[Don Hahn]

But you're isolating more people here, more people on the east coast that now have to make a decision to stay for the end of the game.

[Unknown Speaker]

Maybe the logic is, it would be fascinating to ask the people who decide this. Like, what the real logic is, is the thought we would rather force the people on the east coast to stay up late to decide if they want to stick with the game, because they probably will. And as opposed to people on the west coast who cannot get home for it, it's not an option. They cannot turn it on. They're dropping kids off, they're running around. They will not turn. Rather, it could be that you're on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To something, because here's why. Turning the TV on, that's when the rating begins. Yes, Correct. Putting the channel on in the east coast, you turn the channel on at 8:30, whatever it is, boom, pass out on the couch. TV's still on, still on, rating, still going. They don't care if you're watching it.

[Unknown Speaker]

And if the game's great. Are you going to bed? Well, are you keeping it on?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Whatever it Is it's on.

[Don Hahn]

But there might be people that have to get up early and say, I'm not going to watch it because I can't, I can't, I can't finish it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Does DVR count? If I DVR the game they watch it, does that count?

[Don Hahn]

I think way after the fact, I think there's a way. There is to monitor it, but you don't get it in real time. Listen, they obviously know more than I do, but you're talking about. All right, so 5 o' clock, that's still an inconvenient time for the West Coast.

[Unknown Speaker]

Terrible.

[Don Hahn]

You know, it's terrible. So you're not really helping the five thirties help.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Five thirty is bad.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's what I'm saying. Five thirty is not great.

[Don Hahn]

I can't imagine the half hour is helping. Just make it at 8 o' clock. What it really comes down to is their logic is NBA games move faster than NHL games do. So they'll probably end around the same time. Because all it is is the affiliates wanting to get to their news. Right? And they don't want, they don't want it to go too long, but they also want to make sure that network's going to complain because their network, their news is going to get a higher rating if the game spills into the 11 o' clock hour.

[Unknown Speaker]

But they're not. But you're not getting with 8:30 tips, you're not getting to the 11 o' clock news at 11.

[Don Hahn]

No, but my point is no weather for Don that you're. Their rating is going to go up because the end of the game is going to spill into their time slot. And most likely you'll stay for the weather, like the extra 20 minutes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I believe during one of the breaks you get a little break in with little Lee Goldberg. You get a little something. You always get a little something.

[Don Hahn]

I just listen. TV frustrates me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, tell me about it.

[Don Hahn]

I never cared you could air these games at three o' clock before.

[Unknown Speaker]

Unbelievable. Guys, I waited for an hour for my juice press to come and now I get an email from Seamless saying, sorry, your order's been canceled.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Cancel.

[Unknown Speaker]

We, we sent you $5. You get $5 off your next order. You know that, you know the $5 do. That'll cancel out the other fees that I'm paying to order. I don't know, they could just do that. They can just cancel order food.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, we don't feel like making it.

[Don Hahn]

Well, they didn't send that. You've been cleared. Isn't that the better way to say, yeah, you're cleared. You know what?

[Unknown Speaker]

You're all set on your walls. You're all set on just a big.

[Don Hahn]

Like a big email. The title, emails.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're good. We're good.

[Unknown Speaker]

We're all set here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Want to get some calls in here?

[Don Hahn]

Go to David and Elizabeth. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, David.

[H]

Yes, sir. What's going on, fellas? I'm batting off leadoff. That's what I'm talking about. Can't wait to meet you guys on the 27th. Can't wait to see you guys on.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, you're coming.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You beach bashing?

[H]

Of course I am.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[H]

I'm be bashing, baby. Yo, Don, when I get there, I need to do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, okay. We'll gonna definitely pass the mic around.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[H]

Oh, yeah. I can't wait, gentlemen. But yeah, let's just get straight into it. Let's get straight into business. So I'm not 100% upset at Leon Rose because he looks like he's doing the right thing. And I believe in his eyes. Maybe he saw Tibs and was like, hey, buddy, you reached your ceiling. We appreciate everything that you bought to the Garden. The culture, the wins, the toughness, the grittiness, the defense. But I think they're going to move in another direction. Like I told Bart and Dan earlier, Leon Rose is gonna have to deliver one of these big time moves. I'm sorry, I need that now. You got rid of our coach. I need that now. Because I never came on your show talking bad about Tibbs and what he does and overworking the players. And I respect what people are saying, as in, like, hey, he makes mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. We're human. Everybody has a flaw or has something that they think they could do better than the other. But what I'm gonna say this. I hope that, you know, Leon Rose does the right thing like you guys are saying. I'm in lockstep with you. I think he has a plan or they have plans candidates in mind already. Because you don't make a move like that without having, you know, future move to pivot to. So I hope it's just the right person. I wish it could be maybe Mark Jackson, like, like Alan said, maybe Jeff Van Gundy, that. That would be beautiful. And real quick, before you gentlemen let me go. Hey, Danny, how about our Mets, baby? We should have won last night. That's some B.S. but hey, these things happen. Dynamite.

[Don Hahn]

It really. If they lost the game 4:1, it wouldn't have bothered me as much as coming back from 41 down, having a 54 lead in the ninth inning, blowing it because Diaz isn't available and you're losing 10. But you still got to be happy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, and you have to be very.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Competitive against the best team in baseball and. And very competitive.

[Unknown Speaker]

And hold on. It's quiet. There's a lot going on in the city, but quiet. And slowly Juan Soto's kind of turning into Juan Soto.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but is he smiling? But is he smiling, though? Did he give you a shimmy?

[Unknown Speaker]

Did he get a smile?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did he shimmy?

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know if it's smiling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't see a shimmy. Hit a home run. I wanted the shimmy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Was that three home runs in, you know, he started to come around.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He used to shimmy a lot when he was a Yankee.

[Don Hahn]

Five straight games with an extra basic. Okay, he hasn't shipped me so, you know, no movement for Alan?

[Unknown Speaker]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's see. He doesn't look as happy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Not yet. Not yet, no.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Unknown Speaker]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

I was listening to K Driving in. Yeah, and he said he has it on good authority. Somebody who talked to him. And you might have heard this, too, but I wanted to run it by you that this was not a Leon Rose decision. This was a World Wide west getting into Jim Dolan's ear and that Jim Dolan actually was the one that got Tibbs fired.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This was a collective. This was a collective. This was. Because to say that's wrong would also be incorrect.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, it's a collective. Players had a lot to do with this. And you know, William Wesley has got the. He's. He's the sounding board for a lot of players. A lot of times that's, that's, that's what his skill is. It's to take care of players and what they need and how they're feeling and how can we fix this and how do we make it better than.

[Don Hahn]

If you had to go, is it so?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I am not pinning it on one entity. This was a collective. And it wasn't just one moment. It was a buildup of. Of moment and time and all that stuff. Enough that enough people who were concerned about it continued to be concerned about it and then ended up winning the debate.

[Don Hahn]

But you believe that by the time the decision was made that everybody was on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There was a collective. There was a collective understanding. Although Stephen, a saying that Leon Rose made. Made a scapegoat out of Tom Thibodeau was completely.

[Don Hahn]

A lot of people are making declarations.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That they completely inaccurate.

[Don Hahn]

But I guess where it starts, could it have. Could Michael's report be right, that World Wide west went to Dolan and said, I think there's an issue here. Dolan then goes to Leon. Leon, all right, I'll keep an eye.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And then by the time they get to the point of yesterday, it's like, all right, we're all on board. So whoever started the conversation, by the end of it, everybody was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can tell you that this is a conversation like these are concerns that are not like, just started a year ago. I mean, these are concerns that all along have been a thing.

[Don Hahn]

Well, they just gave him a contract.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know.

[Don Hahn]

So it can't be like, it couldn't be before.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but again, but that. Yes, it can.

[Don Hahn]

Really?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Because there's always going to be that concern. You know, the worry about all the things that come with Tom Thibodeau, which is, you know, the playing of the. How many players he plays and how much he drives the player. All the things that have always been his criticism and what fuels people that are skeptical are when players start to speak up, and players will rarely speak up publicly, Mikhail Bridges did in the middle of the season. And that was all the ammunition that anybody that was hoping to, you know, like that thread on the sweater, Mikhail Bridges saying what he said publicly was the pull on that thread. And then you just, no matter what happened, it just kept pulling on the thread. And as I said, every loss was, he's got to go. He's got to go. This continual message of he's got to go. And it got louder and louder and you know, like when the players say what they say, that's. To me, when you start as an owner, you have to listen when the players get to that point.

[Don Hahn]

All right, let's go to Joe and Yonkers. You're on espn, New York.

[I]

Hey, guys, what's happening? How's it going?

[Don Hahn]

Good. How are you?

[I]

Good, guys?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, Good.

[I]

So I was thinking, man, since like, I agree what you guys were saying and it's just the NBA is just like a little wicked business and everything. It is not fair, obviously. You know, it doesn't matter. It's not fair. But I would probably go. My order would probably be Udoka, Kid and The guy from UConn, Hurley, in that order. But I don't know, I would probably say. What would you. I wanted a question for you guys. What would you guys prefer? Like maybe Mike Malone. It sounds crazy. Into Joker or Kid and Giannis or what? You know, even if it's even possible. And just get your take on that and, you know, appreciate it, guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks, Joe. I'm. I feel like a move like this, they're not going big game hunting. So the, the Giannis stuff and all that stuff, I'm not seeing it. Giannis would have to almost like demand that he's traded to the Knicks at this point. Like, it would have to be initiated by him. I don't think they're doing that. I think they're, they're keeping the continuity of the roster with the effort to upgrade the bench and you know, with, with the pieces they can upgrade. But I don't, I don't see the big game hunting happening. So. Now you mentioned Hurley. I don't see a inexperienced NBA wise coach getting this job. I don't. Okay, so I think you're going to see it's going to be an NBA coach that has a resume and experience.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know what this means. You know, we're signing up for guys, something nobody wants in 2025. Wait and see.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it's not great for sports radio.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's not the. We all want to make a Judgment, but we're not going to even be that familiar with who the person is, so we just gotta wait and see how it goes. That's not fun. We're gonna have to make a judgment right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't. But no, I don't think so. I think if they can hire one of the top candidates that they have in mind, I think it could be something that you'll have an immediate reaction.

[Unknown Speaker]

But if it's someone who doesn't have a big sexy splash name for people, how are they gonna give their hot takey answer on whether or not it was a bad decision to let go of Tibbs?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm sure people will find a way, Peter.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, exactly. And they're going to go with, I don't know who that is. This was a bad choice. Clueless Joe and. But then you're also going to have the snarky people on TV who are insiders like Alan, who are going to say, no, no, no, I know this is a great thing, but really, Don, what we're going to end up doing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Giving that off right now.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, not yet. But you will.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not yet.

[Don Hahn]

Here's the thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think I've. I have been. I feel like I have been as honest and forthright as I possibly could.

[Unknown Speaker]

You have been. You've been tremendous.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The first thing I admitted was I was wrong.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You missed this whole thing. I mean, I gave you as much humility as I possibly had to.

[Unknown Speaker]

You've been great.

[Don Hahn]

Everything is wait and see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I think I'm going to continue to do.

[Don Hahn]

But. But the day of the hire, we're going to have to declare correct. All right. And then.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know that.

[Don Hahn]

Then we'll wait and see who's right or wrong.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like it. I don't like it, of course, but.

[Unknown Speaker]

But the thing is, the like it and don't like it if it's an assistant who's been somewhere for a few years who the average NBA fan truly has not paid attention to. All they can sort of gauge is what do they sound like in the presser, what's their resume?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don't be Ben McAdoo and Adam Gase and everything will be fine.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's it. But then ultimately, if you're not McAdoo or Gase, it's basically wait and see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And by the way, it's long wait and see. It's not even wait and see if they win 55 games because they're already winning.

[Don Hahn]

We make our predictions before every season and it's wait and see. Who's right or wrong, and that'll be it. But the one thing you'll never get from us is, well, I'm not going to decide until it's over. No, we're going to decide. You'll have it or not like it. You have to live with it. And believe me, thanks to freezing cold takes and other things that people will remember what said on that day.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good.

[Alan Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.