Hour 1: Knicks Perfect at Home

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg — Hour 1: Knicks Perfect at Home

ESPN New York | November 6, 2025

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Main Theme

A Rosy Outlook at Madison Square Garden:
This episode dives deep into the New York Knicks’ electric start to the NBA season, focusing on their offensive explosion at home—highlighted by an 83-point second half against Minnesota—and what it might portend for the team’s chances this year. Along the way, the hosts swap stories about work life, expensive lunches, and a bit of Yankees/MLB banter, all with their usual humor and insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Knicks Dominate at Home: Analyzing the Offensive Surge

• Knicks’ Second Half vs. Timberwolves (09:13)

  • The Knicks outscored Minnesota 83–[number unclear] in the second half, against a fully healthy Wolves squad.
  • Three straight wins, punctuated by multiple 70+ point halves and several 40+ point quarters.
  • Team now 5–3, undefeated (5–0) at Madison Square Garden.

• Biggest Takeaways Through 8 Games (09:14)

  • Peter Rosenberg: “They’re the anti-Rangers. They win at home... That’s going to be one heck of an offensive team... that’s an elite offensive team that’s going to be very, very special in scoring points.” [10:38]
  • Alan Hahn: Points out that the bench is finally productive, removing excessive load from stars (Brunson/Towns): “Last season... they were so dependent on their starters... this year they’ve already got three games with 40+ from the bench.” [13:57]

• Catalysts and Adjustments (11:18)

  • Jalen Brunson’s killer third quarter—almost tallying a triple-double—turned a close game into a laugher.
  • Karl-Anthony Towns was impactful early; the new bench-centric approach leaves more options and fresher legs.

2. Will Regular-Season Success Translate to the Playoffs?

• Big Question (12:30)

  • Peter Rosenberg: “The question... Will this translate to the postseason, and is this good enough to compete for a championship?” [12:42]
  • Acknowledges the system is designed to spread minutes, avoid wearing out stars, and resemble the approach of teams like Golden State with Steph Curry.

• Importance of Sharing the Ball & Ego Management (16:13)

  • Alan Hahn: “You have to have everybody okay with the fact that you might not always get your numbers, but the only number that matters is wins... These last couple of games are kind of a good indication [they could get there].” [16:19]

3. Jalen Brunson: Can a Small Guard Lead a Champion?

• Brunson’s Height & Production (19:00)

  • Never had a triple-double (missed by 3 rebounds), surprises some given high-level playmaking.
  • Debate: Can a team with a 6’2” (or shorter) point guard actually win it all? Isaiah Thomas as a rare precedent.
  • Alan Hahn: “Knicks will never win a championship with a small guard like that... Do we firmly believe that?” [20:37]
  • Peter Rosenberg: “They’re predicted to get out of the east... If they don’t win the championship, it’s not going to be because Brunson’s too small.” [20:53]

• Brunson’s Fearlessness & Skill (20:19)

  • Michael Kay: “To be under 6’3”... and score at will like Brunson can; that means you are unfathomably talented offensively.” [19:38]

4. Locker Room Chemistry & Bench Play

• Bench Impact (13:54)

  • Michael Kay: “You want a telling stat—that’s a mouthful... When you have a scoring bench, that’s a big [difference].” [13:54]

• Managing Minutes/Thibodeau Comparison (15:16)

  • New coach Mike Brown is much less reliant on starters, giving the Knicks a better shot at playoff freshness.

5. Knicks Fan Call — Mitchell Robinson’s Night

• Spike from St. Pete’s Call (22:01)
  • Verified fun fact: NBA ref Zach Zarba used to call games at a Brooklyn Jewish center.
  • Spike lauds Mitchell Robinson: “How do you get nine offensive rebounds in 15 minutes? ... He put on a pro show.” [24:12]
  • Says OG Anunoby is playing like a first-team all-league defender.
  • Notes improvement in closing out on threes, but defense still a work in progress.
  • Concludes: “The East has opened up for the Knicks like the Red Sea this year.” [26:51]

6. Off-Court Banter: ESPN Office Life & Expensive Lunches

• ESPN New York’s All-Hands Meeting (01:51)
  • Gentle ribbing about who asks (“too many”) questions at company meetings.
  • Long lunch with colleagues highlighted the eye-watering cost of eating out now (“What we spent today should have been for a party of eight, a couple years ago.” – Alan Hahn [05:17]).
  • Gags about generational freeloading (“Jacob and Anthony... they couldn’t have made less of a gesture toward a wallet.” – Michael Kay [06:05]).

7. Quick Baseball Segment: Don Mattingly, Coaching Life

• Don Mattingly Stepping Away (31:00)
  • Sparked speculation on whether he might return to the Yankees, but hosts agree it’s unlikely due to family and optics.
  • Alan Hahn: “He’s 64... maybe he just wants to coach and teach instead of the everyday in the dugout.” [33:29]
  • Discussion of coaching life’s toll on family, with empathy for older dads in sports jobs.

8. Yankees & Analytics: Is Boone Really in Charge?

• Aaron Boone’s Comment on Analytics (43:09)

  • Boone claimed: “The Yankees are the least analytical team in the American League East when it comes to in-game decisions.” [43:09]
  • Peter Rosenberg: “Guys, from outside looking in, that does not sound like he’s telling the truth at all... It sounds like he’s almost defensive about it.” [44:20]

• Puppet or Master? (46:45)

  • They parse whether Boone is just saying what the front office wants or if he would do anything differently given free rein.
  • Alan Hahn: “If you’re making most of these decisions not based on numbers, but based on what you think you should do, then you’re a nice guy, you’re not very good at your job.” [47:59]
  • Debate about success definitions, and whether being less-analytics-driven would actually justify Boone keeping his job.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Peter Rosenberg, on Knicks offense (10:38):
  “That’s an elite offensive team that’s going to be very, very special in scoring points.”

• Alan Hahn, on Knicks bench (13:57):
  “When you have a scoring bench, that’s a big [difference]... they’re trying to be less Brunson-dependent for most of the game.”

• Michael Kay, on Brunson (19:38):
  “Do you even appreciate how good a baller you have to be to be under 6’4”... If you’re under 6’3” in the NBA and you can score at will like Brunson can—that means you are unfathomably talented offensively.”

• Alan Hahn, on selfless stars (16:19):
  “You might not always get your numbers, but the only number that matters is wins. It sounds cliche, but they’ve got to get to that place.”

• Spike (caller), on Mitchell Robinson (24:12):
  “How do you get nine offensive rebounds in 15 minutes? ... He put on a pro show.”

• Peter Rosenberg, on Boone/analytics (44:20):
  “It sounds like he’s almost defensive about it... does not sound like he’s telling the truth at all.”

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Important Timestamps

• 09:13 – Knicks’ huge second half vs. Minnesota, offense surging
• 10:38 – Peter Rosenberg: Knicks’ offensive potential, home dominance
• 13:54 – Bench production stats & changes from last season
• 16:13 – The importance of sharing the ball and managing egos
• 19:38 – Brunson’s height and offensive wizardry
• 20:37 – Can a small guard lead a team to a title? Isaiah Thomas as a comp
• 22:01 – Spike’s call: Mitchell Robinson’s breakout, referee story
• 31:00 – Don Mattingly leaving Blue Jays, Yankees speculation
• 43:09 – Aaron Boone: Yankees are “least analytical” in AL East
• 47:59 – Alan Hahn: If Boone’s running things, is he really the right man?

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Tone & Style

The episode is witty, irreverent, and fast-paced. There’s plenty of ribbing among the three hosts, with a blend of optimism and skepticism about the Knicks, and exasperation (tinged with humor) about Yankees management culture. Banter about workplace life and the joys and tribulations of fatherhood add warmth and relatability.

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In Summary

The Knicks are flying high at the Garden, with major offensive strides and promising chemistry—but the big question (“Will it matter in May?”) looms as always. The hosts are excited but cautiously skeptical, especially when it comes to playoff translation and historic challenges tied to size and star usage. Meanwhile, they riff freely about expensive meals and the realities behind the scenes in New York sports media and baseball management, making this episode a lively, relatable listen for any NYC sports fan.

Transcript

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[Peter Rosenberg]

I like that before Han.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm not comfortable touching it. I'm not. No.

[Michael Kay]

And Rosenberg, I'm not breastfeeding. No, but I.

[Alan Hahn]

That's too bad.

[Michael Kay]

This is in North Dakota. This is New York.

[Podcast Narrator]

This is Don, Han and Rosenberg.

[Spike]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Podcast Narrator]

ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube.

[Alan Hahn]

3 o' clock in the big city with Don Lagreca and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn. 800, number 93776 is the number to be part of today's conversation. Oh, we had, we had a day, boys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Quite the day.

[Alan Hahn]

We have been here. And Don was here.

[Michael Kay]

Don did.

[Alan Hahn]

Which Don, like Don right now is at the Rock. He's got a game to call tonight.

[Michael Kay]

The Don is in the building.

[Alan Hahn]

By the way, you're in more of a secluded area now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

We're not going to get some cover band playing in the background.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I, I was like literally opening night, I was where I broadcast the games television wise, which is down low.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm up really high in the press box now where I used to do radio and that's kind of buffered the sound just a little bit.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, that's helping.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the horns. The horn. They could put me across the street and you'd hear the horn. Not we could do about that, but everything else is fine.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so we don't want them to get horny this afternoon while we're on the show.

[Michael Kay]

No, no, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, what are you going to do with that?

[Alan Hahn]

We don't want that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not a thing.

[Alan Hahn]

No. But anyway, so Don, we had a big, big meeting today at 11am the whole station was here. And so we had to make a commitment because our show is the one show that's like everybody else. It's like, you know, DPA and Rothburg, they just got off the air.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Michael Kay]

Stick around.

[Alan Hahn]

You know Barton Carlin, by the way, they got a hall Pass. Because they had to do their show and Michael K. Had to come in a little bit earlier. But, you know, again, it's not that much.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he loves that because there's a lot of, like, management sniffing going on. He enjoys doing.

[Alan Hahn]

Did you notice that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah. He loves a good management.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, it's funny, I thought I was the only one that was, like, going, wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. How do you know?

[Michael Kay]

I'm gonna defend my guy. Wait, that he's sniffing or they're sniffing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, no, listen. They're like dogs at a park, right? They're sniffing each other. But now you're talking, you know. No, listen. Who's stiff and more love themselves a good Michael.

[Michael Kay]

You're saying Michael's getting a good. But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But is it. You know, but I. I think they're just smelling the money.

[Alan Hahn]

You think so?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

I can't help them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, Michael knows how to play the game better than anybody, and I don't mean that as an insult.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know how to play.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, you're learning. You're learning. You're learning.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, apparently he is.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By accident.

[Alan Hahn]

So. So then after the meeting was over and all the great questions were asked at the end of the meeting, which.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sure.

[Alan Hahn]

There's nothing better than when you have a big company meeting and then they say, any questions? And it's amazing, you know, the participation from everyone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, listen, they think it's gonna help.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. It's. It's really inspiring.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All it did is help extend the meeting.

[Michael Kay]

You know, that was. That's.

[Alan Hahn]

I learned a lot.

[Michael Kay]

The asking questions in a meeting thing is tough. I did ask a question. I thought I was being legitimately helpful.

[Alan Hahn]

I was looking right at you.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, is it? No, I thought my. Because myself, it was reasonable. Mine was early enough that I was like, oh, I don't want it to be awkward. Like, people don't ask questions. And I feel like, as a representative of talent.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

And I'm saying, hey, I want to ask something for us. I thought that's what I was. I was trying to do something useful.

[Alan Hahn]

I agreed it was talent. Has to ask one question. You were the guy that asked it.

[Michael Kay]

That's it.

[Alan Hahn]

What would you put the limit? Is there a cap on how many one person can ask? My cap is one.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, the under one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's.

[Michael Kay]

It's the over. Under is one, and you got to go on.

[Alan Hahn]

If you ask two, you get a look. Three. We probably should throw you out of the room.

[Michael Kay]

Three would be maddest. But there are a couple twos.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. There were people pushing it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There was definitely one individual. I'd like to take a side next time I see him.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want my 15 minutes back, because when I'm on my deathbed, I'm going to be like, wow, I could have probably lived 15 minutes longer if it wasn't for. I don't want to say his name.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, boy. That's it. That's very.

[Alan Hahn]

But then after this meeting, the blessing of today's sacrifice was that we got to do something we don't get to do often, which is a little family sit down and some. And some lunch.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you know, that was great.

[Michael Kay]

It was a nice. I had a delicious burger. Burger was fantastic.

[Alan Hahn]

Fries pretty good.

[Michael Kay]

Fries are pretty good. Listen. Pretty good. It was an American. It was an America in 2025 meal. And by that, I mean we all ate a decent meal and spent a fortune. It was basically. Yeah. Like, Don, this would have been. I'm not kidding. 15 years ago if I had just spent what I spent at lunch. It would have been like, I'm going out for a birthday. This is a big night.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, this is. That.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What.

[Alan Hahn]

What we spent today should have been for a party of eight in, like, a couple of years ago.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly how much?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't partake because I had to leave.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I hung out for a little while, but I didn't get anything because I knew people should know.

[Alan Hahn]

Don is. Don's working tonight. So he couldn't just hang out like we were.

[Michael Kay]

He had to go to the Rock.

[Alan Hahn]

To get over to New Jersey. So you just spend a little time. Give you credit that you sat with us. We had a drink. Like, it was nice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, we had made an agreement yesterday that I had until 1:30 and then I was gonna have to go to Newark.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

For the game. And I gave it till 1:30.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We didn't get there right away. And. And so I wanted to hang out with you guys, so I just drank my water. I shared a rice ball.

[Michael Kay]

No, you did have a rice ball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that was it.

[Michael Kay]

So now did I. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. You know, you and I at. At some point said we were picking up the tap, but I don't. I feel like. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jacob and Anthony, they couldn't have made less of a gesture towards a wallet.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't. I don't even think they flinched.

[Michael Kay]

I did not.

[Alan Hahn]

There wasn't a.

[Michael Kay]

Not even an arm. It would have been an arm. An arm.

[Alan Hahn]

Something like. Guys, guys.

[Michael Kay]

No, no, no or no, can I. I don't even.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm telling you. They didn't flinch.

[Michael Kay]

No. Nothing. Alan and I pulled out the credit cards. There was not a word.

[Alan Hahn]

It was as if that. You don't know this yet.

[Michael Kay]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

It's like when your kids. When you go out, imagine. And the kids don't even look at the business. Like the bills put on the table and it's as if somebody put down salt.

[Michael Kay]

They don't even like, guess what that's become. My parents.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, really?

[Michael Kay]

Oh, my parents barely try anymore. They barely trust me to go out with you guys.

[Alan Hahn]

More or less.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, More, more.

[Alan Hahn]

Could it hurt you to make an effort?

[Michael Kay]

No, just. Just leave.

[Alan Hahn]

Pretend you want it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I always. Oh, no, always. Here's why. Because the equivalent of where we went for lunch, all right. With. With Jacob and Anthony is the equivalent of me taking my 8 year old twins out.

[Michael Kay]

Like go ahead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They don't. What did they get a gesture for? Like why you did. You knew it was going to be feudal. Well, like I almost be insulted if they gesture.

[Michael Kay]

I see what you're saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There was no way you were going to take any money from them. We didn't go. We didn't stop at. At the local Chinese place. It's a high end place.

[Michael Kay]

Anthony, what was the price on the price tag on the burger?

[Alan Hahn]

We don't. You never showed me the bill, so how would I know?

[Michael Kay]

Oh, we don't even know what it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I'm sure it was. I'm sure. North of 20.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't get a receipt.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He asked for a paper receipt.

[Alan Hahn]

Did you get a paper?

[Michael Kay]

No. We were being too classy. We were balling out too hard. We just threw guards.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We really were.

[Michael Kay]

Now I want to know because I'll tell you one thing.

[Alan Hahn]

We were ordering off.

[Michael Kay]

Alan. Alan decided to order an appetizer that tasted like body parts.

[Alan Hahn]

I know that was nostalgic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know what the heck that was. Nostalgic, but not food for food. What you were doing today.

[Michael Kay]

No, not for what. And by the way, you know that.

[Alan Hahn]

Sorry. Though it gave me. No, listen, I got some feels.

[Michael Kay]

Alan got the feels and that's great. You know what I mean? He can. He can think about that later.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

But for me I got this weird fishy mush and I think that thing was like 32 bucks. It was like a thin nothing affirmative.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've never seen anything like that before.

[Michael Kay]

It looked like so. It looked like a sea animal.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Was still alive and they just dropped it on the table. And we're a classless bunch. So none of us know what it is. No, we all have to pretend like we know what it looks like.

[Alan Hahn]

It looked like Jake blew his nose on a plate.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, because it looked like whatever he ordered fell off the plate.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And all was left was the byproduct of what fell off the plate.

[Michael Kay]

That's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what it looked like to me.

[Alan Hahn]

And.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But Alan knew. He's like, oh, isn't he? Dove right in.

[Alan Hahn]

He gave it a try.

[Michael Kay]

I'm always gonna dive in. Yeah. I didn't know it was gonna remind Alan of college.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't either, but took him back.

[Michael Kay]

But it was a good time. No, it was nice to hang out and break bread as well as weird fishy products. I enjoyed it. We missed you, Don. For the end of it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, we chatted a bit.

[Michael Kay]

We talked some sports, talked some life. It was nice.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, we did. We planned out a show.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And so I have a question for both of you. I have a question for those also listening at 800-919-3776. Shout out to everybody on YouTube, by the way, as well. We appreciate you being there. It's very simple. So the Knicks last Night had an 83 point second half and they didn't do it against, you know, some run of the mill team. This is the Minnesota Timberwolves Final 14. They had their full roster. This wasn't like, oh, they didn't have Anthony Everett. No, they had everybody. And the first half was really competitive, like a really good game back second half, they made a couple of adjustments and the next thing you know, they're running away with a blowout win. And that's three in a row. And there's this has been a handful of 40 point quarters. It's like three 70 plus point halves that they have put together in the early go this season now at 5 and 3. And so my question is, what is your biggest takeaway from what you've seen over these last three games since sort of that, that, that hit, you know, when they bottomed out. It felt like in Chicago in that first half where no one looked happy, everything looked, you know, discombobulated. Defense had no physicality to it whatsoever. Things definitely turned in when they came back home. They're 5 and O at the Garden. So if there's a takeaway in the early part of the season, eight games in, what would it be?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, they're the anti Rangers. They, they win at Home.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, the Rangers are oh five and one of the Garden. The Knicks are, you know, undefined. The Garden, that, that this is going to be one heck of an offensive team and once Kat gets going, I mean this is going to be an elite offensive team. That's why I mean 83 points in the second half, guys. And how many times have they gone over 70? What three.

[Alan Hahn]

It's three 70 point halves and, but includes last night's was an 83 point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's, that's an elite offensive team that's going to be very, very special in scoring points. Is there anything else to take away?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, that's, that's the.

[Michael Kay]

And Cat, Cat was only good for 15 points.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, 15. But his first half though, like his second half because it was Brunson time and now because Jalen Brunson had a, almost had a triple double his third quarter, he just took over like he was unreal in that third quarter. And Towns was early in the game when Brunson was struggling to make some shots. They will put like Jaden McDaniels is one of the best defensive wings in the game and he was guarding him. So you know Brunson's having a hard time. But against, you know, Randle, Rudy, Gobert, Nas, Reed, Carthage, Towns was just once again driving, dunking on someone back. He backed Edwards down on the post, dunked right over him. He hit a couple of walk in threes. So his, his impact was felt more in the first half when it was still a game and the Knicks actually got off to a slow start but then got on a run and got things going. The bench scored over 40 points again. It just, it's just what Mike Brown said about how it's going to take a little while for them to get it, but once they do, it's really going to show it. Does it? I don't want to get ahead of my skis, but I called these last three games so I was courtside and it just felt like this thing is starting to pop offensively and it's pretty impressive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now the question is it's only November, right. We're very early in the season. Of course this move, changing the coach, I don't think was to be better in the regular season. It was to get over the hump in the postseason.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the question, and we got a long way to go before we get there, but ultimately will this translate to the postseason and is this good enough to compete for a championship? Because you want to play some D, right? So is. Are what we, what you saw against a really good team, right, that was a final four team last year, Minnesota. Is that going to translate into the postseason and is that going to be the reason why this team is going to represent the Eastern Conference in the Final? Because that seems like that's the end game.

[Michael Kay]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

That's really all that matters. Right, Right. So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that's the question. I know it's only November, but is it going to translate into the postseason?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, that's the, that was the, the whole idea for Mike Brown. Because last year's offense, people forget for the most part of last season was a top five offense. They were a high scoring team. You know, between Brunson and Towns, they were two of the highest scoring players in the league. But they were so dependent on their starters. They were so dependent on Brunson and Towns like they did. They got nothing out of the bench. You never saw the bench score. It was always, I think last season they got over 40 points, I think, or 30. There's a stat that I got last night five times the bench. This year they've already gotten three.

[Michael Kay]

Wow. So that's, that's his telling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The stat.

[Michael Kay]

You want a telling stat. That's, that's a lot.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, that's a mouthful because you're. When you have a scoring bench, that's a big. And I think Don, like that's what they're trying to do is be less Brunson dependent for most of the game. And then of course, in a close game when it's closing time, that's the guy, you know, you go to. So I think that's what we're seeing is the style they think can take you through a season without exhausting your best player. And in the playoffs, we know it grinds to a halt. It's very similar what he's trying to do to what Golden State does with Steph Curry.

[Michael Kay]

Mm.

[Alan Hahn]

And you know, it's, it's really more about like they had six players in double figures. They had, I think it was like nine players had 13 or more points. It was some like, it was just. This is not just one game. This is now the last couple of games. You're really seeing it and that's why this is what they want it to look like in the playoffs. And oh, by the way, Mitchell Robinson played last night and in limited time he was unreal, like unbelievably dominant against Rudy Gobert. Outplayed Rudy Gobert in lesser minutes.

[Michael Kay]

I mean, I mean, yeah, exactly. Just about, I think 16 minutes something like that. But Alan, to your point about the bench play, the beauty of that is so much of what people view as the anti Thibodeau is about, you know, not playing at all. Right. And load management.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Michael Kay]

But you're forgetting about how being anti Thibodeau can also just mean utilizing your bench the right way. So your starters are playing 31 minutes a game instead of 43 minutes a game. And even, even if they're not load managing Allen and taking off on the night when people expect to see them play, right. They might just be getting limited minutes in a way that gives them that extra buck.

[Alan Hahn]

They got to be okay with it.

[Michael Kay]

Energy. Well, why would they not? But why would you? I mean, it depends on the numbers you hear.

[Alan Hahn]

You saw Towns in Milwaukee when he got one shot in the first half and that was a 70 point half. The Knicks had a 70 point first half. We're winning by 12. Like they were rolling. That second quarter was a 40 point quarter. But Towns had one field goal attempt in that first half. Third quarter, he came out broke. The offense started taking shots, started going for his. And that's exactly the like it's, it goes against everything they want to do. And they ended up losing the game because it all fell apart.

[Michael Kay]

Right. So you got to have confidence in the system. You got to be patient. You got to, you got to be willing to have the nights where you're just not getting your numbers.

[Alan Hahn]

You can't have like the Eagles when Saquon Barkley's having a big game and A.J. brown's on the, on the sideline reading a book.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Looking miserable. Like you can't have that. You have to have that understanding that tonight's your night. Like the other night when, when Towns was going off on Alex Sar, this kid, this 19 year old center for the Wizards because they wouldn't double him because they were so worried about doubling Brunson. So Brunson didn't have a big game, but Brunson didn't care. His Towns was going for 33 and 15. Like you have to have everybody okay with the fact that you might not always get your numbers, but the only number that matters is wins. It's cla. It sounds cliche, but they've got to get to that place. And these last couple of games are kind of a good indication that they could get that. If they do get there, it could look pretty good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, leave the ego at the door and hopefully everybody's going to be able to do that. Now correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I misread this. Brunson was seven rebounds shy of a triple double three.

[Alan Hahn]

Rebound shy of a triple double three three. Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He had seven. He was three shots.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's never had a triple double.

[Alan Hahn]

Never. I know. How is that possible? I think it's the rebounding. I think. I know he's had assist double doubles. I just don't think he's ever really had. That's correct because he had. He had 10 assists in this game.

[Michael Kay]

You talking Jalen?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Michael Kay]

Well, it's obviously the rebound thing. He has plenty of really go for.

[Alan Hahn]

Rebounds because he's not really the guy to do that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Were you surprised by that, though, that.

[Alan Hahn]

He'S never had a triple double? Yeah, not really.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, not really.

[Michael Kay]

But yeah, it's a pride. Never surprises.

[Alan Hahn]

But here's what's funny is when you know and, you know, guys on the bench know, they tell you. And he was at seven rebounds. Like it wasn't. Like it was two minutes ago in the game. He had a shot at it. So we were asking him, like, did you know? And, you know, did you go for it? Like, were you. Were you thinking to yourself, let me go grab a couple of rebounds? And he had a funny answer. Last time I chased something, I got.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Cussed out in front of Tom Izzo.

[Alan Hahn]

I was a junior in high school.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I'm not gonna chase any stats here.

[Alan Hahn]

So he's telling a story of Tom Izzo was recruiting him Michigan State when he was in high school as a junior, and Tom Izzo was there, and he was, I guess, chasing a triple double in high school, which he probably could have gotten in his sleep. And he got yelled at for chasing the chasing stats instead of just play the game. Right.

[Michael Kay]

That's very him, that he would hold.

[Alan Hahn]

That lesson to this day. That just tells you all about it, right?

[Michael Kay]

Brunson's six two.

[Alan Hahn]

I think he's listed at six, three, six. Yeah, something like that.

[Michael Kay]

Isn't basketball funny? What's Russell Westbrook listed at?

[Alan Hahn]

He's six four, six five.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, is that high?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I think so.

[Michael Kay]

Because Westbrook just gets. Russell Westbrook, who wake up this morning, barely be in the league and get a triple double to show up. 11, 10, 10 walk out. It's just funny how everyone's doing.

[Alan Hahn]

Josh Hart is 6, 4.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, he grabs wars all the time.

[Alan Hahn]

He has. He had the most triple doubles any Knicks had in a season last year.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah. I think of him being the guy to grab big rebounds for this team.

[Kevin Clark]

He's six four.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

NBA.com has him at six two, six two.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. Yeah. And I think that's a bit of a stretch for Bronson. Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. He might be 6:1.

[Michael Kay]

I love that.

[Alan Hahn]

But this is what they do.

[Michael Kay]

God, you know how good that means that guy actually is at ball.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, Right.

[Michael Kay]

It's like Iverson.

[Alan Hahn]

But you know what else, too?

[Michael Kay]

It's like, what?

[Alan Hahn]

When you see him, you say he looks small. Right. But if you put him in regular world, he's tall. He's six.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Westbrook, by the way, six three, six eight wingspan. But six three.

[Alan Hahn]

The wingspan's a big part of it.

[Michael Kay]

But that's crazy. Do you guys, I. Do you even appreciate how good a baller you have to be to be under 6 4? If you're under 6, let's go under 6 3. Under 63 in the NBA. And you can score at will like Brunson can. That means you are unfathomably talented offensively. Yeah. Because on any night, if he didn't care about what happened to the team, he just wanted to score, he could score constantly.

[Alan Hahn]

And keep in mind he's not like just a three point shooter. He scores in the paint. Oh, yeah. He scores more in the paint than any. Like, him and Shay Gilgis Alexander are the two highest scoring guards in the.

[Michael Kay]

How crowded that paint is with big arms everywhere. Like, how do you do that?

[Alan Hahn]

He finds a way because he's just. He's got great footwork and he's smart. So crazy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he's fearless.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, there's that too. Yeah, there's that too. But that's what also makes him the leader. But they also want to take the pressure off him. There are some people that say this, and I wonder if you guys feel this way as we're talking about Jalen Brunson's height. Knicks will never win a championship with a small guard like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what's been said.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. Isaiah Thomas is like one name that comes up as a guy six one that won a championship, as the lead character in a championship team, but they're just like, oh, this? You just can't do it. Do we firmly believe that?

[Michael Kay]

Hmm.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, they're predicted to get out of the east and go to the NBA Finals. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

One of the teams. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the only reason they're not the favorite to win the championship is I think there are two or three teams in the west that are better than they are.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Including. Ok, is that because Jalen Small or just the OKC is better?

[Alan Hahn]

OKC is defending Champ. And Denver has Jokic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. And Denver's got the best player on the planet. Right. So if they don't win the championship, it's not going to be because Brunson's too small. It's just going to be a coincidence, going to keep that narrative alive. But they're just not, they don't, they don't have the talent that those teams in the west have. But, you know, so I think it conveniently keeps the streak alive. But that's not the reason, especially the way he plays.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, no, he's really good. Meanwhile, I got to the bottom of one of the great questions that we have had on the show. So I want, though, the person who has brought this topic up that we always talk about to join us in this conversation.

[Spike]

I know Zack Zarbo, he was the crew chief. He's a Brooklyn guy, used to call games at the Jewish center on EAS.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so that's Spike. And Spike. And St. Pete is on the phone right now. Spike.

[Spike]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. I have something for you.

[Spike]

Go ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

So I, so last night, Zack Zarbo was the crew chief for the game last night, right? He, he comes on the court and I grab him right away. I grab his arm and I go, zach, come here real quick. And I said, I heard you used to officiate games at the Jewish center on Eastern Parkway. I didn't get Eastern Parkway out of my mouth before he smiled, nodded his head and said, yeah, no, that's true.

[Michael Kay]

How about that?

[Alan Hahn]

And he had a huge smile on his face. And then that was it. He got me up and he went on his way to rough the game. And so I was like, I can't wait to say this on the air.

[Spike]

Thank you, I appreciate that. By the way, my late brother in law was the system principal at Halsey Junior High School, which fed into Bushwick, and he also officiated games there. And I'm so old. I go back to when Joe Crawford, who was the official, where Reggie Miller went off for those points, he had hair at that point. So, you know, I follow this game like it's my blood. And I told you before the season started and you've been very kind to me, everybody. I love all you guys and you know how much I love Vicks. Mitchell Robinson put on a show last night. He was good, Alan. I got, I watched defense because I'm a UB guy. I, I watched him do things on the court and I got on with Michael. I don't like to abuse the time you guys allow Me and I appreciate the platform. But in one consecutive back and forth he put on a pro a show that. How do you get nine offensive rebounds in 15 minutes? Yeah, how do you an OG and an OB now after eight games is playing like a first team all NBA.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, he's been, he's been really good too. But you're talking about a play where Robinson got a put back dunk then jogged down the court saw apply. I forget who it was driving. I think it was McDaniels driving to the basket to make a layup on Bridges. And then Robinson just sprinted and punched it into out of bounds. And it was just like plays on both ends within seconds of each other. He was. Yeah, he was unreal in this game. He had. I'm pulling up the box because I want the numbers. Yeah. Eight seasons he played 16 minutes. He had seven, I'm sorry, eight points, 10 rebounds. He had three blocks. Also a steal. Out of the 10 rebounds, as you mentioned, the nine offensive rebounds, he was four for five. Which of course was all. Probably all around the rim. It was like in 16 minutes he did this 28 minutes and had 7.7 points and 9 rebounds.

[Spike]

And we'll go there from the COVID thing and the Stifle tower, I could do without him. I know he's a big tall guy. Last thing. Thanks for the time. I've noticed this with both Ann and Obi. Three things I've noticed in the first eight games and I watch it like a hawk. Bridges looks like he's changed his shot a little. He's a little closer to his ear when he's releasing the ball. And then I'll be shooting from all over. If you look at the shot, I'm saying things, you know, but the listeners may gain some knowledge from that. If you look at his shot chart, he's all over the place now. He's shot and, and, and, and something happened to Mitchell Robinson. He's not putting the ball below his waist, which is eliminating those and he' it in anymore. On the first three years they were pulled him if he whispered for a foul. So that was the best half of basketball I have seen. And I don't think the Knicks defensively because you know you have a lot of problem closing out on the three. There's still. The differential is still bad. They didn't have to outscore everybody. Well, this is my. He starts off very early in his tenures and I'm repeating myself, but that's my nature. He starts off in his tenures, whatever team he's on, he makes the changes and the kids must like him because he's an easygoing guy and, and he's got all this experience. But remember, you gotta finish. The east is opened up for the Knicks like the Red Sea this year.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. So you're seeing it?

[Spike]

Yeah, I gotta get better. I gotta hang around and watch this thing this year.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh yeah.

[Spike]

The most beautiful half I've ever seen. And the turnovers non existent. Look, I watched OKC last night. My under over which I'm a big proponent of this year. And I give it out to two guys that like to bet a lot of money. My deal with them is I don't want anything, just thank you. I had Detroit last year, 24 and a half and I gave them Portland this year. I said scoot. Anderson comes back. I think that's his name. If he comes back. Even in spite of the billups thing, I said the west is overrated. You have geriatric teams out there. You got three of them. They're starting 30 year old guys. This is a young man's game. Okay, one last question.

[Alan Hahn]

No, Spike, it's late. It's late in the segment, man, I was like pulling the string. That was pulling the string and it just. He really had a lot. I just wanted to let him know that Zach's not confirmed.

[Michael Kay]

Well, listen, guess what, Alan? That was a lot.

[Alan Hahn]

That was a lot.

[Spike]

Oh, great.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

We love you, Spike.

[Alan Hahn]

That was. We have a lot to do today.

[Michael Kay]

Don, you all right over there?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, no, Don's just sitting back.

[Michael Kay]

Don's dead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He killed me actually. I love the guy, but he.

[Alan Hahn]

Actually, no, that was. I just. I couldn't. I couldn't jump in.

[Michael Kay]

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[Alan Hahn]

See mintmobile.com thanks for listening to the.

[Podcast Narrator]

Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Narrator]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

With Don Le Grec and Peter Rosenberg, I'm Alan Hot 800-919-3776. Sure is the number.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why not?

[Alan Hahn]

I know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Absolutely.

[Alan Hahn]

I know the Spike thing didn't go the way I was kind of hoping it would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love him. I. He's great. He just, he got, he got going.

[Alan Hahn]

He really. You know the doll, like when you pull the string.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but the string runs out.

[Alan Hahn]

It just. No, it didn't.

[Michael Kay]

Well, that's the thing. The string, in theory, runs out. He was once you, once you mentioned Zach Zaba.

[Alan Hahn]

I just wanted him to enjoy that moment. Some interesting news here from John Heyman.

[Michael Kay]

Sorry, that's Richard, not Spike.

[Alan Hahn]

Dom Mattingly stepping away from the Toronto Blue Jays.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, what's up with that?

[Alan Hahn]

He's not retiring. Said they say he still feels energized.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

Yankees should call him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Michael Kay]

I mean, for fun. Right?

[Alan Hahn]

For fun. You don't think he's useful?

[Michael Kay]

I mean, I don't. Can I say the truth?

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Michael Kay]

Okay. I don't.

[Alan Hahn]

Not about Donny.

[Michael Kay]

I don't believe anybody.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want your truth.

[Michael Kay]

No one on the outside can tell what makes a good base coach. Sure, why not? You gotta have a base coach.

[Alan Hahn]

Right? Bench coach, same thing.

[Michael Kay]

He's a bench coach.

[Alan Hahn]

Not a base coach.

[Michael Kay]

No, even less, at least a base coach. You see a bench coach? No idea.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, he's like your. He's like your consigliere.

[Michael Kay]

Hey, he's just hanging out.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. He talks. He's Tom Hagen.

[Michael Kay]

Who are you getting the vibes on? What's the vibe of everybody on the bench? What it is, how's every people feeling?

[Alan Hahn]

Or. Or it's like decisions that you're going to make, like you just want to buy somebody.

[Michael Kay]

So you're saying the manager barely makes any decision?

[Alan Hahn]

No, but when he makes one of.

[Michael Kay]

The very few decisions he makes, he's going to go waste his time with the bench coach. Come on, who are we kidding here? Just bring him back. Putting him in the Yankee uniform, It'll feel great for everyone. Would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It would. But I don't think Donnie's thinking I'm going to take Aaron Boone's job. He's not that way.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's probably got to a certain age now, like, hey, listen, I want to still do this, but I want to be able to maybe do it closer to home or do it somewhere where maybe there could be an avenue to becoming a manager again someday. But I think he understands the dynamic with the Yankees and I don't think that would be where he would go. So I just think he. I just think maybe he felt that it ran its course in Toronto and now go someplace else. But I don't think this is some grand scheme to steal a job away from Aaron Boone or something like that. I think he's too classy for that.

[Michael Kay]

But you think you'd like to have one somewhere? Yeah, I mean, still. He still thinks there's a run as manager and it wasn't going to happen in Toronto, so I might as well go somewhere else.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. I get it, but I don't think the Yankees would be that destination. I think he knows very well they're happy with Aaron. And that's not to say I'm going to go someplace where I know the managers hanging on by a thread, but like, you know, go somewhere where maybe he feels like that at some point there may be a natural progression to being right.

[Michael Kay]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If he goes to the Yankee, the Yankees have already said they don't want to mess with the legend of Dom Mattingly. I don't think he would go there in hopes that in a few years he would take over, but there could be, there could be someplace else, but just not in Toronto.

[Alan Hahn]

So he's 64, right?

[Michael Kay]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So does he want to, does he want to elevate what he's doing or does he want to kind of like take it down a notch? Does he want to just kind of coach and, and teach instead of the everyday in the, in the dugout? Like, maybe he wants to be more behind the scenes. I don't know. Like he still wants to coach, but we don't know if it means that. Yeah, look, living in Toronto, the travel, all that stuff, maybe it's just like, you know, I don't really want to do all this. Like I wonder, but, but if I just feel like this. And I know sometimes you make hires that are ceremonial. If not, Manningly is available and you know that he's got a resume. Not, not his player resume. I'm talking about like the guys the guy's coached, he's managed, he's been. I don't know why you wouldn't as an organization say, well, if he's. Let's bring him back in, let's get him back in. Well, the only reason we could utilize.

[Michael Kay]

Him if he, the only reason is you could think with all the chatter that exists about around Boone every season, we don't need Don Mattingly sitting there with fans going, oh, maddenly Madden.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And don't. And Mattingly knows that he does.

[Michael Kay]

Of course he does.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, so you don't think they'll ever be like, you don't think there's going to be a, a reuniting of Donny Basin?

[Michael Kay]

I mean, listen, I'm sure if they said to him, if he, if he reached out and said he was interested and they said, hey, well, obviously we're good with Aaron Boone here. Do you want. But even then it's still. No, it's still going to be the problem. So I just think even if, because Don, even if he says I'm good, I don't need to be a manager, I just want to be a part of his organization. It still won't change. Maybe a potential discomfort from having it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Would be, it would be a problem. I think the Yankees realize that.

[Alan Hahn]

Here's a quote from him. He said, I think the thing I wrestle with is trying to balance family with a 10 year old. His 10 year old.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Trying to Balance that with still loving, doing what I'm doing, then balancing the road. I'm 64. I feel good, but the road kind of wears you down. If I talk, if I talked about it right now, the last thing I want to do is be on the road. But you never know how you feel a month from now or whatever. I see that now does tell me that if you said, hey, come to Tampa. You work with our young players, hitting instructor, hitting, whatever you, whatever it is, no travel whatsoever. Don't even need to be in New York. But you teach our next generation. You spend time with all of our young guys. You work with our young guys in the winter and all that stuff. Like, does it sound like a guy that the kids. 10. I just kind of want to be home.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what it sounds. Yeah. 10 years old. Listen, we can all sympathize with that. Toronto is not the easiest place to be if you're, if your family is. I don't. Are they in Tampa? I don't know where they are.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I, Yeah, I don't know where he lives, but I'm sure it's Florida somewhere. Right, right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But if it's down like, you know, Alan going through customs, it's, it's a pain. You know, it. And so he probably think, yeah, I'll be an instructor and hang out with you in spring training. I'll be there for the home games. Kind of like, you know what Phil Jackson was, was doing towards the end of his career, like, I'd just be, I don't want to travel anyway. At 64, be with his 10 year old kids, probably going through baseball stuff himself. And it, that's a lot to miss. So he's energized. But maybe the travel is just to be, you know, to be 64 and have a 10 year old, I can relate to that.

[Michael Kay]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm 57. Have an 8 year old.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, and the trial, being away from the kids was tough last week, but luckily for me, in hockey there's only like two long trips like that. In baseball, half the season you're, you're crisscrossing all over the place. They don't, they don't have very many real close homestands. I mean, I. Road trips, I mean, I at least get the benefit as the devil's announcer. I get to go to the Garden, I get to go to ubs. I can drive to Philadelphia, take the train to Washington. When you're stuck in Toronto, there is no bus trip. Everything's on A flight, everything's crossing the border and having to deal with that.

[Michael Kay]

I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, of all the jobs to be an older dad with, and, and Donnie, you said, you said he's how old? 64. 64 with a 10 year old. Right? Of all the jobs, man, being a part of a baseball team is a tough one. I mean, that's just like. I'll see. I leave in April and I, I see you when I can, but I'm basically gone for six months.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And, and you're also, even when you're home, you're gone. I don't know how Michael does it, honestly. And listen, it's first world problems, but in this case, I don't think it is. You know, not only are you away, you're away on Labor Day, fourth of July, Memorial Day, you know, the summertime when like everything's going on, you don't get to take any vacations. You know, Alan and I have tough sledding with the NBA and the NHL. But you know, the NBA does play on Christmas. The NHL takes off. They take those three days off for, for Christmas. So we never play on Thanksgiving. My toughest thing is I got to cut my Thanksgiving in half just because I gotta. I got a six o' clock like the buffalo that night. But, you know, I get the whole summer off. You know, it's. And with the fail. That's. You're right. The base baseball is endless, man. It is.

[Michael Kay]

And even when the season. All right, you're back in Toronto, everyone's around. Great. You still leave for the building every day. You're gone till 11 o' clock at night.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, I don't know if you guys saw this, but apparently Aaron Boone was on, you know, talking Yankees with John Boy, talking Yanks to you. He said something very interesting that I don't buy. Do you want to do that? Coming up.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, but you just, you just tease us like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm sorry, I just saw it and I said, you know what? I can, I can try to squeeze it in, but, well, hey, oh, I like it.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, squeeze it in, but no, no, don't squeeze it in. Tease us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, we also, we already tried to fill an elephant through an ant hole, so I figure let's tease.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to own that the rest of the day.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I love what you did.

[Michael Kay]

General soreness.

[Alan Hahn]

Look, I was, I, I thought I was doing the job. Getting out there talking to an NBA referee minutes before tip off about something that happened in his life, early in his life. And I got the answer. And I felt like, I felt like a reporter. I was like, I got this.

[Michael Kay]

You were just, you were back. You were back in.

[Alan Hahn]

And I wanted to share it. And then of course, once you open the door, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No for door.

[Michael Kay]

Five and a half minutes later.

[Alan Hahn]

Just trying to do good radio. Aaron Boone on what the Yankees don't do nearly as much as anybody else in Major League Baseball. Next.

[Kevin Clark]

This is Kevin Clark for manscaped. Look, being a man doesn't mean skipping self care. I do this show three times a week and every single time I do a little self care beforehand. Okay? Grooming, the hair, everything. You guys see it. You don't wake up like this. You don't wake up like that.

[Spike]

You gotta do.

[Kevin Clark]

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[Podcast Narrator]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Narrator]

Catch the show on demand whenever you you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, so Adam Graves coming up in the 4 o' clock hour and that'll be a lot of. Always great to talk with Adam Graves and get into some hockey. We had a spirited Peter, Don, myself and Anthony Pusick had a spirited Ranger conversation. Oh, really? The other day.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And Don and I were mostly listening. Would you confirm, Don?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, confirm.

[Alan Hahn]

So Pusick had some serious passion about what's happening with the other team at the Garden. Again, we'll get all into those conversations, but always great to talk about Adam Graves. He'll be coming up 4:00 clock hour again. Damian Woody at 5:30. That guy Thursday. Wait till you hear this story.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got one.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh boy. But we also have a little baseball right now. And Don, you were talking about it, something that Aaron Boone said that he has a way of saying things that just make you face palm and say, you're not that kind of guy. Why do you say these things? But he did it again. Tell us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, he was on with talking Yanks. John Boy Vehicle.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he said the Yankees are the least analytical team in the American League east when it comes to in game decisions.

[Kevin Clark]

The least.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The least of the American League east teams. So that obviously includes the Blue Jays, the Red Sox, the Rays and the Orioles. Okay. For the Orioles aside. Because, you know, they really haven't been good.

[Michael Kay]

Well, last year was an actual baseball that was played. So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but the Blue Jays really. But, but you, you know, the Rays are driven by it. I mean they are. They're the most a poster child outside of the A's and Billy Bean because they've got no money, they've got no payroll and they've got to do it. So right there. I doubt very seriously when you hear all the stories about Cash, like there's like a lot of rumors that he's been reprimanded by the organization for even like having a thought outside of analytics. Then the Red Sox, listen, we felt like they've always thought outside the box and, and the Blue Jays too. I mean, listen, he knows a lot more than we do, but guys from outside looking in, that does not sound like he's telling the truth at all. Sounds like he's almost defensive about it. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, clearly when you say things like what he's saying there is like, like we're the least of it. Right. Declarative. He's. He's not like suggesting, you know, I don't know if we do it as much as anyone else. That's like. That's more like a soft way to. But he's like we're the least.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, the least.

[Alan Hahn]

With the very bottom. But everybody else does it more than we do. That sounds very defensive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know how you know that. Right. Because it's not like you're getting inside their meetings and all that.

[Alan Hahn]

Or is that when you go. The people I talk to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But here's the semantics of it because Boone's a great guy. He's not a liar or anything like that. The semantics of that. He's on board with the decisions where he can kind of sell. No, that was my call, you know, because it is his call because he is in complete lockstep with the organization. But what I'd like to know is how many times has Aaron Boone in a game completely defied all the analytical logic and said I am going to. I don't care what they say. I'm the only person who believes this. I am going to bunt here or I'm going to take this picture out or I'm going to bring this picture in. Has he ever defied the analytics? The, from what I understand is no. And the semantics thing is. Well, because I believe everything they believe. So I am going with my gut because that's what my gut tells me. Well, just a coincidence that your gut is exactly in lockstep with what they're already thinking. So I don't think that there are very many times Michael can answer this much better than we can. Being around it all the time, where he defies his orders or defies the logic that is talked about before the game, I find that very difficult to believe.

[Alan Hahn]

But alright, well he, he says it. It does make us react. I don't think anybody believes it. But this is. But this again, I think they have developed such a reputation at this point that it's impossible for anybody to really trust what they say or take it at face value when it has to do with analytics.

[Michael Kay]

Unless it is also just what we say, which is that. Because remember I asked. Who did I ask this to? Was it Jeff? No. Vaccaro. About how different Aaron Boone actually is from like if left to his own devices, what would he do? And Vaccaro seemed to think Boone, left to his own devices, is very close to what the.

[Alan Hahn]

Would still do the same stuff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Exactly. That's why It's a non issue, but he's obviously defensive about it because all the things we've ever said about baseball is you can never praise a manager or can never criticize a manager because it's all coming from above. A guy does not want to be out there that with it, with the narrative that he's being neutered, that he's just a puppet. I mean, I would be insulted by that too. Right? I'd be defensive about that. You know, Boone works really hard to be as good a manager as he can be. And the narrative is, well, he's just a puppet. Cashman's pulling the strings.

[Alan Hahn]

What would you rather have? Would you rather have at least to say, well, these are the numbers and we follow the numbers. So, you know, we don't win, we don't get, we don't win World Series. We get to a World Series once in, you know, an 11 year span or whatever it is. It's like, which is, which is the better way that or I'm the reason why we don't get as far as we should. Well, these are all my decisions, but not just the numbers, because then it's. I'll tell you what now and again, if you take it at face value and what he's saying, if you're using them the least, then how the hell do you still have a job?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Exactly.

[Alan Hahn]

Because that means, that means you're, if you're making most of these decisions not based on numbers, but based on what you think you should do, then you're a nice guy, you're not very good at your job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, unless again, the narrative is different about what is success and what's not success. Because they go to the playoffs every year. They just went to the world.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry, I heard the owner say that it was a failure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, okay, so then he's a failure. But I would think if I'm a manager of a team, if I'm a hate coach of a team, I'd want that. I want people to think that I'm in charge. And there's a feeling like he's not really in charge. But yet we get calls of people demanding him to be fired. So is Boone confirming he should be fired? Because. Because if he does go by his gut, and we always defend Boone by saying, well, give him a break. This is your organizational decisions. Then are the callers right? Should he be fired?

[Alan Hahn]

That's if he's saying what he's saying. Me, it's almost like, you know, like a pilot of a Major airline. Right. He relies on analytics. He's not making every decision with his gun. He's not. He's not just taking off and it's. He's in full control of the plane. No, all that stuff is pre programmed, right? The navigation, everything is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The plane could fly itself. I said to a pilot, oh, that plane. I could fly that plane. I'm sure they'd be insulted by that.

[Alan Hahn]

Of course they would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But there is some truth to the fact that it's not like, you know, World War I and you're in this, you know, flying, you know, flying around, you know, trying to catch the Red Baron. I'm sure they had a lot more say then than the pilots of a 747 today.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, pull up, pull up. Like, you know, like, if there's a moment in the ninth inning where you need to pull up, that's different. But it's like everybody does have that sense of, yes, I'm in control, but we are following navigation. And I think it's really pretty much how the Yankees handle. Are you good?

[Michael Kay]

But that.

[Alan Hahn]

Are you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's a mic problem.

[Alan Hahn]

His microphone needs viag.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's a lack of stimulation.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, are you. Yeah, he has no movement.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he's got too much movement. It's all downward movement.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, it's too much movement.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I know you almost admire what Boone did because Boone pays attention.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, he knows what's one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he knows that everybody believes he's a terrible manager and he's the reason why they haven't won a World Series. And what he's doing is. He's confused. Confirming to you, yes, I'm in charge that I make decisions more than any other manager in the American League East. So whether he knows it or not, he's kind of confirming.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That he might be the reason they haven't won.

[Alan Hahn]

He just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Although the organization looks at it probably like he is the reason we've gone as far as we've gone, which is good.

[Alan Hahn]

Two ways to see it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, there's definitely two ways to see it. There's the Yankee way, and then there's.

[Alan Hahn]

The rest of the world, and we still will never find middle ground. I tried, but it's not gonna happen.

[Podcast Narrator]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Podcast Narrator]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

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