Hour 1: Knicks Win Game 5

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg: Hour 1 - Knicks Win Game 5
Release Date: May 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this electrifying episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg, host Don LaGreca, seasoned broadcaster Alan Hahn, and hip-hop aficionado Peter Rosenberg delve deep into the New York Knicks' pivotal Game 5 victory. The trio offers comprehensive analysis, shares insider insights, and engages with passionate callers, making it a must-listen for Knicks fans and sports enthusiasts alike.

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1. Knicks' Game 5 Victory Recap

The episode kicks off with the hosts celebrating the Knicks' triumphant win in Game 5, a crucial step in their playoff journey.

Alan Hahn [01:09]: "Alive. The Knicks are alive."

Don LaGreca highlights the significance of the win, emphasizing the importance of maintaining momentum as the series progresses.

Don LaGreca [01:14]: "Can't say well, you're down three, two. Got to go to Indiana on Saturday. But you know what? They're alive."

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2. Game Performance Analysis

The hosts dissect the Knicks' performance, focusing on key statistics and strategic plays that led to their victory.

• Turnovers and Lead Management:

  While turnovers remained a concern, the Knicks managed to limit them more effectively than the Pacers, allowing them to build and maintain a substantial lead.

  Alan Hahn [01:14]: "They didn't cut down on the turnovers, but they made sure they had less than the Pacers had."

• Player Contributions:

  Players like Karl-Anthony Towns and Mikhail Bridges played pivotal roles, both offensively and defensively, contributing to the team's success.

  Alan Hahn [04:35]: "If you want to climb this mountain."

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3. Player Highlights and Performances

The discussion delves into individual player performances, highlighting standout moments and areas for improvement.

• Karl-Anthony Towns:

  Towns' consistent scoring and leadership were crucial in anchoring the Knicks' offense.

• Mikhail Bridges:

  Bridges' defensive prowess, especially against Tyrese Haliburton, was a game-changer. His ability to limit Haliburton's effectiveness was instrumental in the Knicks' strategy.

  Don LaGreca [17:04]: "He was slowing down their offense because he... was battling and staying with them the whole way."

• Jalen Brunson:

  Brunson's playoff performance was commendable, averaging significant points and assists.

  Don LaGreca [18:34]: "Following a loss in the playoffs of the season, Jalen Brunson has averaged 32 points and 7 assists on 50% shooting and he's plus 71. The Knicks are 6 and 1 in those games. Case closed."

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4. Coaching and Strategic Adjustments

Alan Hahn provides insights into Coach Thibodeau's strategic adjustments, emphasizing his adaptive coaching style.

Alan Hahn [15:01]: "He's playing a five-man lineup of four bench players around Karl Anthony Towns. He has literally torn up the plan that they have used all season and rewritten it in the middle of the Eastern Conference finals."

This adaptability has allowed the Knicks to secure two of the last three games, showcasing the effectiveness of mid-series adjustments.

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5. Series Outlook and Future Games

The hosts discuss the implications of the Game 5 win on the series' dynamics and the challenges that lie ahead.

• Pressure on Indiana:

  With the series tied, the Pacers now face increased pressure to perform, especially when nearing elimination.

  Alan Hahn [12:34]: "They're up 3:1. They could afford to have a mile in and still have two more cracks at it. They're going home to play game six."

• Potential Scenarios:

  The trio speculates on possible outcomes, including the Pacers' resilience and the Knicks' need to maintain their momentum.

  Peter Rosenberg [06:31]: "All right, we Know we have to do what? Talk to the people."

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6. Fan Interaction and Callers' Perspectives

Engaging with listeners, the hosts entertain various viewpoints and questions from dedicated fans.

• Caller Insights:

  Callers share their thoughts on player performances, strategic decisions, and their personal experiences attending the games.

  Caller [34:38]: "They reeled me back in and there was nothing like, you know, seeing Huckamania Huck 40 go wild. Dropping the leg drop late in that game last night."

• Host Responses:

  Don, Alan, and Peter provide thoughtful responses, acknowledging valid points and expanding on the callers' observations.

  Don LaGreca [34:34]: "He was great."

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7. Notable Quotes and Moments

• Intensity and Passion:

  The hosts express their deep passion for the game and the team's performance.

  Don LaGreca [07:17]: "Anybody that was near me, especially in that first half, could see that I was completely unhinged."

• Strategic Praise:

  Applauding key strategic moves that influenced the game's outcome.

  Don LaGreca [17:04]: "He took a 20 point lead, down to 10, almost by himself. And I'm going, okay, here we go."

• Player Accountability:

  Discussing player responsibilities and the impact of their actions on the game's result.

  Peter Rosenberg [06:31]: "It was exactly. I mean, there were just some moments... those breaks just all went the Knicks way yesterday."

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8. Closing Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reiterate the importance of the Knicks' performance and set the stage for upcoming games and discussions.

Don LaGreca [38:35]: "Catch the show on demand. You want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts."

The trio leaves listeners with a sense of anticipation for the next episodes, promising continued in-depth analysis and lively discussions.

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Key Takeaways

• Momentum is Crucial: The Knicks' ability to secure a win in Game 5 has reinvigorated their playoff aspirations.
• Strategic Adaptability: Coach Thibodeau's mid-series adjustments have been instrumental in the Knicks' recent successes.
• Player Performances Matter: Individual contributions, particularly from Towns, Bridges, and Brunson, have been pivotal in shaping game outcomes.
• Fan Engagement: Active listener participation enriches the discussion, providing diverse perspectives and insights.

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For more in-depth analysis and engaging sports discussions, subscribe to Don, Hahn & Rosenberg on your preferred podcast platform or via the ESPN New York app.

Transcript

[Don LaGreca]

For the team ready to conquer the grandest stage, immortality awaits moments of sweat and sacrifice towards the composition of champions. An unforgettable journey is nearing its finale.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Four more wins to take home the trophy.

[Don LaGreca]

The NBA finals, presented by YouTube TV, begin June 5 on ABC, ESPN, WHSQ and WCBS FM HD 2 New York. A good karma Brands radio station Don.

[Alan Hahn]

I gotta divorce my wife and have my kids bleed out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Because the Giant games on.

[Don LaGreca]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Otherwise I'm not a real fan.

[Don LaGreca]

What kind of fan are you?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not a good one. And Rosenberg, the Peter haters who call stupid. The Peter fans who call very bright.

[Alan Hahn]

This isn't North Dakota, this is New York.

[Don LaGreca]

This is Don, Han and Rosenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Don LaGreca]

8 80, ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Alan Hahn]

Alive. The Knicks are alive.

[Don LaGreca]

Won't say well.

[Alan Hahn]

Can't say well, you're down three, two. Got to go to Indiana on Saturday. But you know what? They're alive. And that was what we were looking for, boys, Right? When we started the show yesterday, we wanted to see all the things they need to do. Well, they didn't cut down on the turnovers, but they made sure they had less than the Pacers had. But they got out to a big lead. They held on to it. They were able to kind of relax, kick their feet up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

Have a 17 point win. And now in preparation to try to do it all over again later on today. How are you doing, guys? All right?

[Don LaGreca]

I'm good, I'm good. Donnie was. Good to see Donnie this morning. Donnie came through this morning. Peter up, up. And Adam, nice and early in Manhattan, came down to Seaport.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Whoa.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. This is a new Don legrec night at the Garden.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Pounding the flesh, meeting some people, right? Having conversations, you know, like just being a man out seeing people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A man about business, a man about.

[Don LaGreca]

Man about town. After. Even after we did our remote, he's in the Garden and he's meeting people. And then this morning he made a little national spot on what was the national?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Unsportsmanlike.

[Alan Hahn]

Unsportsmanlike, yes.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. I always want to say Undisputed, but that's a different network.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He popped on.

[Don LaGreca]

It's unsubbed. He jumped on. And afterwards, Evan Cohen is the host, was like speaking just so excitedly about Don and his presence on the air and what he brought and thrilled to see Don legreco.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I mean, Don legreco is a legend amongst mortal men. And you and I know that it's nice to see it now, speaking of legends, let me tell you about myself. I said a few things yesterday about what needed to happen. Talked about getting off to the fast start. Doesn't take rocket science. Talked about getting to coast a bit in the fourth quarter, guys. That happened as well. Talk about a big game from Karl Anthony Towns. And I also told you that no matter what the mood felt like yesterday, if the Knicks get a good, convincing win on Thursday night, come Friday night. Don, I said they're going to have to sleep on their backs. Am I wrong? You're telling me the energy's not back for tomorrow night?

[Don LaGreca]

Is that the question of the day? Come on, fans. 800-919-3776.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Everyone's back.

[Don LaGreca]

Do you have to sleep on your back tonight? You're so excited. That's the question of the day.

[Alan Hahn]

And we can't give any more detail than that.

[Don LaGreca]

No, but you should figure it out. No, you don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. In other words, if you sleep the other way, it'll hurt.

[Alan Hahn]

But you know what? You know what? Also talking about sleep, not needing as much as usual, I mean, just looking at these minutes, right. You know, 35 minutes for towns, 33 minutes for bridges, 33 minutes for Brunswick, they were able to kick back. And if there is any kind of, you know, physical exhaustion from what's happened with they're playing their 99th game and the up and down pace of the Pacers and having to fight back, I mean, at least they were able to get a game where they didn't have to go. You know, everybody playing tons of minutes, go to overtime, living and dying, fighting back for multiple, you know, the double digits down and all that. They, they had the exact game that you need that where you can kind of formulate the comeback, it's still going to be very difficult to do. You got to rip it not once, but two more times. But that's the first game, Allen, that you need if you're trying to climb this mountain.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. And if you really want to, if you want to, you know, spin positive as much as you can. They've won two of the last three games in this series.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That part too.

[Don LaGreca]

Right, right, right. Like, do they have a little momentum and, you know, you continue to chase game one. You know, that's something that we can't let go of and we won't, but it is. You got to at least say two of the last three games. You got to feel good about how you played. And now there, there is more pressure on Indiana, not more than the Knicks have the Knicks are facing elimination, but the point is, is that there is this now sense of pressure with Indiana. They're definitely feeling it a little bit more now than they did before game five, because game five for them was. I don't want to say house money, but it was like, you're on the road, you know you're going to take. They're. They're the biggest punch. I'm telling you, from my proximity being by their. Their bench throughout most of the game, they had this feeling of, keep it close, Just keep it close, because, you know, the momentum, the crowd, the emotion, you've got to just get through this. But if you can get through all that, and it's close, because remember, in Cleveland, the same thing happened. The Cavaliers went up 18. Cavaliers tried to. Tried to stave off elimination, and they played their hearts out in that first half, and then they just couldn't hold on. They were running out of gas. And that lead got down, and every time it went down, the Cavs got stronger. And I mean, the. The Pacers got stronger and stronger. And then they stole the game and they ended the series. And they. I think the. The Pacers was thinking the same thing. Let's. Let's just outlast them. They're going to be exhausted from all the emotion from the start of this game. They came out like gangbusters. Let's just wait this out. Keep it close. And when it got to 10, you know, there were some tight butts around the building. You can't ignore it. But the Knicks pushed back, pushed back, and never let them have that ability to steal this game like they did in game one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, like that, that was a mix of some good play from the Knicks, some lucky breaks.

[Don LaGreca]

You know, you playoff basketball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was exactly. I mean, there were just. There were some moments, guys, like.

[Don LaGreca]

Was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It going into the half Halliburton missed a wide open 3? That would have cut it to like, what, like 8 instead of 11 or something like that. Whatever it was, there were these moments where I was like, oh, God, a big shot here goes down, it could change things. And those breaks just all went the Knicks way yesterday. And let's be honest, if you were to look at that box score, look at the percentage the Pacers would shoot, look at how ineffective Tyrese Haliburton would. Would play.

[Don LaGreca]

He was invisible in this game. Minus 23.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Allen, you have to win that game. Like, oh, of course. If you see those stats and you somehow don't find a way to win that game, you don't deserve to even be there.

[Don LaGreca]

All right, I'll play this game with you because this is what was. Anybody that was near me, especially in that first half, could see that I was completely unhinged. Like, Don and I sat with Michael K. And his lovely family for, you know, a couple of minutes in the second quarter. I couldn't. I could. I had to get up. Like, I'm like, I can't just sit and watch this game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, Michael got his whole family into the building, huh?

[Don LaGreca]

Actually, it was. Was Charlie there? Right? Not Cali.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. No, just Charlie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And. Yeah, but what about joy?

[Alan Hahn]

Three. Three fourths of the family.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He had a plus two is what I'm saying.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. He's Michael.

[Alan Hahn]

It's good to be Michael.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's good. You know what? I. I'm yet to get an invite to a playoff game this year. Found my way in.

[Alan Hahn]

You did, you certainly did. But now it's a whole nother story. We'll get to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I didn't find my way in via.

[Don LaGreca]

I heard something about all that too, that we're going to reveal later because I found that to be the most compelling thing of all. It was a moment I wish was caught on camera, to be honest with you. But we'll get to all that, really. But I want to. So anyways, I was losing my mind and I just can't sit still. And what was bothering me was all the things you were talking about. And then in the third quarter, as I'm now courtside watching this game without any distraction and just really locked in, watching players, listening to them conversations, I saw Ben matheran just start to heat up. And he had a third quarter where all of a sudden, personally for him, he took a 20 point lead, down to 10, almost by himself. And I'm going, okay, here we go. So niecemith was the game one guy, right? Siakam was the game two guy. Halliburton was the game four guy. Tell me that mathman's going to be the game five guy. Like. Like they've had a guy every game. Just go, detonate, have like an unreal performance. Tell me this is going to be the story now that they won't be able to stop this guy. And the next thing you know, they're going to end up losing this game. Like in my head, that's what I was thinking of, of the different scripts. But it didn't happen because mahen started getting selfish. He just wanted the ball every time and he really wasn't giving you a great effort defensively. At least on the ball he was. But off the ball, terrible. And they took him out of the game and he was not happy about that. So there was things I was watching with the Pacers that I'm saying to myself, is it crumbling a little bit? Because Miles Turner looked really, really emotional. Like just never. He was whining the whole game. And I'm thinking this is starting to turn maybe that, that when you do bring what we talked about, little physicality, a little attitude, a little toughness, connectivity, all that stuff, are they kind of a front running team that if it's not going well, they kind of like start to implode a little bit and they need a little magic. Like game one, they just needed some magic. One player got hot and all of a sudden everybody got excited. But if there was a point in that game, 17 points down, where you looked at the Pacers like they were, they were already, you know, they didn't look like they were locked in. Halliburton had that, that lost this distant look on his face until someone got hot. So that's all things that, you know, make you wonder about Game 6. But the pressure on the Pacers is only because they need to win. They don't want a game seven, but they are going home. They're going to be very comfortable.

[Alan Hahn]

But which, which then takes me to Siakam's comments after the game. He had a little bit of an exchange with a reporter after the game about the whole want to, they wanted it more thing. Listen to Siakam. After last night's game.

[Don LaGreca]

They played harder than us, I think. I think they played harder than us. You know, lose balls, like rebounds, like all that. We got to be able to win that battle.

[Alan Hahn]

How is that possible?

[Don LaGreca]

What do you mean?

[Caller]

How is it possible to not fight.

[Alan Hahn]

Hard enough in game?

[Don LaGreca]

What are you talking about? They played harder than us. It's okay. We played hard, but they played harder. What's your point? I don't get it.

[Alan Hahn]

My point is you're saying you guys got out, fought.

[Don LaGreca]

That happens in the game, though. That's basketball. You're good. You're good, bro. You're looking for something. I know, I mean, but damn. No, no, but I'm. I'm telling you though. I told you. What else do you want me to tell you?

[Caller]

That's all I'm asking.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, what about you? Tell me. So go ahead. Who. Who's this guy? Who's this guy? That's awkward, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I appreciate him. I feel, I feel seen. Yeah, that's how I. That's how I feel about that whole thing that Ko is he Siakam just really summed up how I feel about that question. Like you're being literal when I'm just saying, no, obviously they played harder, they won. Like, it's. He doesn't mean it in this detailed, intense way that the media treats it. It's just silly.

[Alan Hahn]

It really is.

[Don LaGreca]

But I understand why the pushback. I need you to explain it better than just saying it. That.

[Alan Hahn]

But that. But that's why I wanted to bring it up. Because, you know, you're talking about the pressure on the Pacers. The Knicks pretty much had the same thought after the game for loss, but the region was reason it was more egregious is you just lost the game. You're down 3:1. Like, how does that happen? It was 2:1 series. You know, if you lost, that means you're going to be down 3:1. Everybody knows the odds are going to be completely against you. The odds tell you you don't come back from that kind of deficit too often. The Pacers had wiggle room.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, the pacers, they're up 3:1. They could afford to have a male in and still have two more cracks at it. They're going home to play game six. You know, they're now even with that loss, you know, they've still been good on the road. Like, they had a streak of wins on the road before that loss at Madison Square Garden last night. So the reason I bring it up is you talk about the pressure. They knew they had at least a game to play with. I don't think they've got that anymore, even though technically they do. They don't want to have to come back to Madison Square Garden. But the reason I actually believe what Siakam is saying is that I guess what he's telling you is, yeah, they wanted it more because they had to win. They were facing elimination. So that's the message the Pacers want to send you. Yeah, you got us. You won by 17. You won by 17 because we didn't need it and you did.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, so even though it's still egregious and it still should not happen, he's sending you the message, like, yeah, because believe me, guys, if we really needed that game, you're not win him by 17 points. That's the message he's trying to send out to the Knicks. And the Knicks should be like, dude, you, you had us down and now you're letting us back up. Well, make Them pay for that, make them pay for. If they did mail it in last night, which I don't think they did. But if that's the message you want to send out that you know what, we got a message for you, you're going to regret doing that.

[Don LaGreca]

It's the famous line, I forget which Cav said it that year against the warriors, but it was don't let us win one. Like, don't let us win one. And that, that was that, that sense of, you know, you don't give us life. And that I think would be the concern from Indiana's side because again, they know that game one was a steal. They know that. Everybody knows that it was a steal. Didn't earn it, took it and every right earned it because you took it. You did the right things by doing, making the plays. But that was one the Knicks gave away. And so with that in mind, you don't want to give any back. Like, you don't want to have that happen. And so to give this game away in that sense that you didn't have the urgency of, let's put this team out before they get some life, before maybe they figure out a game plan that could slow us down or could beat us because again, I know we've mentioned it, but I still think it's pretty remarkable that we are almost like saying it in passing. Thomas thibodeau is playing 10 players a game. He's playing a full bench rotation.

[Alan Hahn]

Can you believe it?

[Don LaGreca]

He's playing a five man lineup of four bench players around, around Karl Anthony Towns. He has literally torn up the plan that they have used all season and rewritten it in the middle of the Eastern Conference finals. And it has helped him win two of the last three games to keep alive and stay alive in this series. They have changed a lot of things here. Philosophy wise, approach wise, lineup wise, everything. And it's starting to work.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's almost, it's almost like he's coaching this, this team like a, you know, a basketball coach, using all the players available to him. He's a real boy. Look at, look at old Tibbs using everybody available. And look. And can you believe it? Some of them know what to do. I don. When I left the building yesterday, they were. There was a Landry Shammit chant.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now let me, let me say that the high point for me last night was hearing a Landry Shammit chant. There were a few low points fan wise as well, one of which is God, you know what, guys? I remember now why I enjoy rooting for teams that are not where I live because I don't have to be around the fans of that team.

[Don LaGreca]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because fans are just annoying. I mean, like, every. The amount of times I heard people around me turn on Knicks players because of one bad play, I just.

[Don LaGreca]

Come on. It's anxiety.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just.

[Don LaGreca]

Anxiety.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I just hate. It's. But, Don, you. You and I are always on the same page on this. That's just not how I fan. I don't get it. Like, Josh Hart makes a mistake. Take him out already.

[Don LaGreca]

What's he doing? Oh, my timeline was filled with Josh Hart hate until all of a sudden, he helped close the game with his usual spectacular physical.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, you don' so you're saying the guy who does what he does did what he did. Like, that's who he is.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, it's a great point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Every once in a while, he turns it over and you get frustrated. Every once in a while, he gets a wide open three, has all the time in the world to think about it and bricks it, but he's going to have an effort play that helps you win a game. That's who Josh Hart is.

[Don LaGreca]

And then Mikhail Bridges, which is the other guy, a lot of people were getting on early in the game. Did anybody notice the fact that he was picking up Halliburton 50, 60ft from the basket and making him turn three or four times before he got over half court? That he was slowing down their offense because he, instead of waiting for Halliburton at half court, let him get downhill and running those high screens, he was picking them up and battling and staying with them the whole way. And that was a huge part of slowing it down. He was. He was connected to him. You know how I always like to say, whoever their best player is, never leave him. Don't give him any space. They're not giving Brunson any space. Look what Oklahoma City did to Anthony Edwards. They literally said, we're going to take him out. Four other guys have to figure out how to beat us, but we're not letting him beat us. And that's what. And that's what Mikhail Bridges was basically locked in to do. And no one really considered any of that until well after the game when replays and telestrators and all the other stuff then gets shown and you're like, wow, I don't even notice that. But he did. And that's hard to do everybody what he did. Now he's got to do it two more times to try to win this year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, we Know we have to do what? Talk to the people.

[Don LaGreca]

For sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're talking a lot. We got to.

[Don LaGreca]

I just say one more thing I guess now one last thing because this is something that is also important to me. The Brunson slander that I said I will never hear again. Can I just give you a stat and then I'll shut up?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Following a loss in the playoffs of the season Jalen Brunson has averaged 32 points and 7 assists on 50% shooting and he's plus 71. The Knicks are 6 and 1 in those games. Case closed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a hell of a stat.

[Alan Hahn]

1-800-919-3776 Chauncey and Westwood, you get us started here on Don Han and Rosenberg.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up guys? Happy Friday. So I get out of work at 2:30 and Alan every time I drive home now I'm always, I'm always thinking like man Barton Han we usually be singing just got paid right now. I kind of miss it. You should bring it back.

[Don LaGreca]

It was kind of fun.

[Caller]

I think you should.

[Don LaGreca]

It was a way to go into the weekend.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, I, at some point Jacob on a Friday playing a little Johnny Kemp. I'm never going to complain.

[Don LaGreca]

Me either.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I think you should bring it back. It's a good way to send into the weekend. But the way, the way I saw last night was you know the way the whole playoffs been going is oh, we're playing Detroit, they play physical now we got to up our physicality or playing Indiana, they play fast now we got to up our pace. No, last night the Knicks dictated what went on. They, they played their brand of basketball and aside from game six versus Boston that was their best game of the playoffs. So you know they just got to continue it for two more games. And just one concern I got is, you know I will say yes, Josh Hart closed the game very well but minus one in a game you win by 1734.

[Don LaGreca]

Let go of the plus minus. Let go of it. It's the only thing gotta let go of it. You gotta.

[Caller]

Well it's a good indicator when everyone else who played big minutes is over plus 10. You know it's. And Shammit and Delon Wright gave great minutes and sometimes I won't criticize Tibbs because he had he coached a good game last night but sometimes Josh Hart.

[Don LaGreca]

Has double digit rebounds in all but one game in this series so far off the bench.

[Caller]

No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not criticizing his productivity so I'm.

[Don LaGreca]

Just saying, you know, Deuce was minus three.

[Caller]

Yeah, Deuce wasn't great either, but Josh Hardy is going to give you everything he got. He's got to clean up the turnovers just a little bit. I have no doubt that he'll turn it around because, you know, he's been, he's been the heart of the team for three years. So let's go into it two more times.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, there you go. Question, Alan, focus on the plus minus so much.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me, I want to ask, and respectfully, I don't know that any one of the three of us is smart enough to answer this question. I mean, we're all bright. I don't know if that were bright enough. Is the plus minus stat necessarily reflective?

[Don LaGreca]

It is and it isn't. And I know that sounds terrible, but what I mean is in some, in some situations, you could point to it and say when you're on the floor, the team, you know, obviously the team is, is negative, but there's four other guys out there, certain lineups that you're in, that it can happen. And you also. It's substitution patterns that just might. In certain games like this one, because it's bizarre. He was part of a lot of very positive things in this game. They won by 17, yet somehow, some way, how do you win by 17? But when you were out there, it was minus 11. But it's pockets of the game where there's five points in a row scored in one minute and that, that just hurts you and you come out of the game. So I. This is not a game where I'm paying attention to plus minus as much as I'm paying attention to. What impact did you have? And I saw a guy that had a major impact off the bench with. Well, who said it? He did. He did what he does. He had 10 rebounds, a lot of them when it mattered. He had four assists. He gave you 12 points, a double double for a guy that is, you know, playing 34 minutes, that's production and that's helping a team win.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I only look at plus minus in both the NBA and the NHL in like totality, you know, if you're a minus player, then you're, you're ineffective. If you're a plus player, you're effective. But in a given moment, in a given game, sometimes it doesn't tell the whole story, you know, and to say that he was that poor defensively in a 17 point game in which he was a minus one, in that in an isolated incident, it doesn't tell the whole story.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

But if you're, if you're a minus 100 for the season, you know, then you're terrible.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, yeah, yeah. That's why the, when I said the plus 71 in Brunson in those seven games when following a loss in the playoff, plus 71 is pretty significant number.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a significant number.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Minus one in a game like that. That's a nitpick.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. I'm trying to find what Hart did second half because that's, I want to, because I want to make a point of this so the listeners understand. Plus minus in this sport sometimes, you know, is a little strange, but it, let me see. I mean it's not, it, I guess it was the fourth quarter where he. No, he was dead even. He played 11 minutes in the fourth quarter and he was even hit zero and he had five points and four rebounds contributed.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, right.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, he actually, him and Towns were the leading scores in the fourth quarter for the Knicks.

[Alan Hahn]

And compared to his closed performance, which he did and just like this performance, like he had the points in game four, he had all those turnovers and the points, all the turnovers are terrible. But yeah, hey, the Knicks win and now it's back to being a series again. Tim Legler is going to join us coming up at 4 o' clock. At 4:30 it is fraud alert Friday in which I might actually be called to the stand. So we've got that to have to deal with. Plus your calls at 1-800-919-3776. What I anticipate to be a spectacular enn at 6. It's all happening right here on 880, ESPN New York and the ESPN New York app. Now you want to get the most for your money. That's why more Mazda buyers choose Ramsey Mazda lease a new 2025 Mazda CX5 all wheel drive. Just $239 a month for 36 months. Start shopping now at RamseyMazda.com or at Ramsey Mazda. Route 17 north and Ramsey. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Excludes tax title, registration 0 security deposit VIN S 0571604 MSRP 29,990 and 6,225.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is an ad by BetterHelp for Mental Health Awareness Month. BetterHelp surveyed 1600 people across 23 countries for its first ever State of Stigma report and found that while 75% of people believe it's wise to seek support. Only 27% of Americans are in therapy. When people hesitate to get help, it doesn't just affect them and impacts families, workplaces and entire communities. Let's encourage everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma. The world is better when people are healthy and happy. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus switch therapists at any time. We're all better with help. 72% of BetterHelp members report a reduction in symptoms. Visit betterhelp.com timeout to get 10% off your first month of therapy. That's betterhelp.com timeout.

[Don LaGreca]

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed.

[Don LaGreca]

Or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting lifelock.com podcast terms apply thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don LaGreca]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

Time now for the weekend Weather Report which is brought to you by Wild Pork Foods. Tomorrow scattered thunderstorms with a high of 71 and Sunday partly cloudy with a high of 69. Help me out with the weather here. It's the weekend for God's sake. That was the Weekend Weather Report brought to you by Wild Fork Foods. Wild Fork Foods is your grill season. Go to with over 450 meats and seafoods blast frozen for peak flavor. Visit in store or order same day Delivery@Wildfork Foods.com well Tim Legler is going to join us guys. Coming up at 4 fraud alert. Friday at 4:30, ENN at 6 and then at 6:30 we've got some Mets baseball, Mets and the Rockies. But it's not Yankees Dodgers, I can tell you that.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh I can't. I honestly the only thing keeping me from being over the top excited for tonight's game is the fact that it's on Apple and I'll be checking out.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, that's why I listen to it on the radio, man. That's my protest.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah All.

[Alan Hahn]

I just. We're gonna get back to the calls. Just a second. All right, Tyler, Is that. We had had the Mets, Dodgers, a rematch of the league championship series last year. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, all on national television. No, Sny. Now you got a rematch of the World Series. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. No. Yes. All national television baseball. You're a regional sport. Lean into it. Lean into the skid.

[Don LaGreca]

What are you doing? Honestly, what are we doing? It's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's so trash.

[Don LaGreca]

I get Sunday night baseball. I understand it, right? Like that is a. You know, that's a franchise. Totally get it. But a Friday night. I gotta. I gotta go. I gotta be. I gotta watch it on streaming, but I gotta do. Come on, man. Like in this market, you want to go around the country with it, fine.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In this market, Alan, this is the fight I've been. I've been having on the air for a few years.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, we've been doing it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I've. But I've always made this argument to Michael and Don that. And this is a smaller thing, I think, than this issue. But I have always said, if you want to start trying to make your sport cooler, take the Home Run Derby. That's so much fun. And find a way to have an all star weekend instead of an all Star Monday and Tuesday. It just doesn't work. And Michael always gave the same reason. They can't because you'd be giving up a series. A home series and the money that comes with the tickets. It's the same thing here. They're always thinking about the dollar in their hand and not the growth of the sport. So in their eyes, they get a deal from Apple for a lot of money. Awesome. We need that cash. Don't complain later when your game's not doing as well as you wanted it to, because people can't find marquee games because you did it for the money, Malt.

[Alan Hahn]

See, I want to kill them, but I completely disagree with you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, please.

[Alan Hahn]

They're trying to go national. They're trying to grow the game at the expense of the Die Hard you already have and maybe, you know, hurting them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But really, Apple tv, is this really doing it?

[Alan Hahn]

That's what they're going to tell you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tell me the game.

[Alan Hahn]

Tick tock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I'll have a conversation with you.

[Alan Hahn]

Apple tv. Plus, I'm not telling you baseball knows what it's doing, right? It's like, you know, we should be pumping in more rock music. Where's the Culture Club album? Like, they. They know they have to what to do. They Just don't know how to do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, so. Yeah, but no, it, this is a complete and utter money grab. That's all it is. All right, so they could say they want to grow the game and for the cord cutters and all national televisor trying to expose. No, you're grabbing money because Apple's giving you money, Fox is giving you money, ESPN is giving you money, and that's all you care about is the bottom line. And meanwhile, there are literally fans in New York and Los Angeles that are not going to watch the games because they're going to be like, you know what? I'm not going to bother going to the app. Now they catch a break because there's no NBA or NHL playoffs to compete with. But last Friday you had a Nick game. So New York is like, I want to watch the Mets and the Dodgers. But you know what? I don't want to turn on the app. I just want to. I just want to turn on my TV and watch the Knicks. And now. So now you're alienating the actual people that want to watch. Yeah, but you got the money, you didn't grow the game and now you're hurting where it is actually doing well, all for the money grab.

[Don LaGreca]

Why can't it just be like football does that in the market? You can still watch it on regular TV and anyone else around the country can take it in on, on Apple or on the streaming service, but at least the local markets, the fans are not the ones that get punished because they don't have like. That's what I don't understand.

[Alan Hahn]

I will, I'm glad you asked. It's very simple. They wouldn't get the money from Apple if they, if they lost the New York market. They, they realize it's a regional sport. They're trying to get LA and New York to get the app to watch. They know nobody else in the country necessarily is going to care. If they lose New York and Los Angeles by giving it for free, then they don't get the bang for their buck. That's why in the NFL there are people outside the market that care. So they can do that.

[Don LaGreca]

Why can't you put it on, you know, picks or any of these other channels that are not, not the majors. Right. Obviously the major broadcast companies put it there and just inundate me with all the great things that Apple TV has in store so that by the time the game's over, I know everything about Apple. And I might be intrigued enough to say, you know what? I Might want to check this out. That looks like a pretty good show.

[Alan Hahn]

You can, you can, what you're saying is try to convince.

[Don LaGreca]

Use it as of commercial.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you could, what you're doing is I could ask you to give me $100. I can try to trick you into giving me a hundred dollars. That's what you're asking.

[Don LaGreca]

Or you can force.

[Alan Hahn]

Or I could just take it out of your pocket and run and that's it. That's so much easier to just take it because what they're hoping for is I don't want Apple. I don't care about Apple. I don't watch any of their shows. But I really want to watch the game. So I'm going to get, I'm going to get the free trial. And they hope that you forget the cancel. And now you're paying for it, by the way, they're stealing it out of your wallet. Isn't it easier to take money than ask somebody for it?

[Don LaGreca]

Can I watch it on MLB if I have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think. No, I don't think so.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, no, no.

[Don LaGreca]

You can't even watch it like if I have. No, no, no, no, no.

[Alan Hahn]

Because it's available to you in New York by getting Apple. This is how it's all, it's, it's all, it's all a pyramid scheme.

[Don LaGreca]

This, this just has, this makes me more angry.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I, listen, that's the reason I brought it up because it just aggravates me to no end. But, you know, we are going to get into the baseball of it all because that is a big series. The first time the two World Series teams meet is a big deal.

[Don LaGreca]

After all the trash talk. Come on now.

[Alan Hahn]

No, it's, it's going to be fun this weekend.

[Don LaGreca]

Freed on the mound. I'm in.

[Alan Hahn]

And if I were you. And that's the way I'm going to do it. You know, I'm just going to listen on 880 all weekend long.

[Don LaGreca]

Come on.

[Alan Hahn]

1-800-919-3776. Let's go to a Richard and Valley Stream. You're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg up.

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thank you for taking my call. I got three points I'd like to make, but before I start, I'd like to say that Fraud Friday is my favorite segment going every time. The first point, it was refreshing to see that the Knicks finally did the same thing that they've been doing since the playoff started. Watching us picking up hal Burton from 94ft. It was, it was like I said, it was refreshing to see that. The second point I want to make is every time Cat drops to the basket, he gets fouled, but he never gets to his calls. I don't know why that is. And lastly, lastly, can we not not have Jay Williams ever on the New York sports show especially.

[Don LaGreca]

You were doing well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was great.

[Don LaGreca]

Jay is.

[Caller]

Listen, he flip flops too much. I watched Allen the other morning, like on get up and literally wanted to strangle him. You know, like the point that he makes about the Knicks, I'm just, you know, you know, he flip flops a lot. So that's what I want to say about that. Guys, thank you for taking my guy.

[Alan Hahn]

He's a. He's a salt of the earth, tremendous human being.

[Don LaGreca]

And he's a guy that like, game by game, things change. And he makes observations off of games. Not, not like, not. He doesn't go broad brush. He just what. What he saw last night, this is how he's feeling today. That's what Jay does. And it, by the way, it's provocative. It got you to react.

[Alan Hahn]

No, he knows. He knows basketball, man. And you know, and it is. Okay, guys, to change your mind or see things differently after.

[Don LaGreca]

The more evidence you played. Yeah. The more you see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm starting to think, guys, something more and more. You know, I've been on the air almost 20 years in this market.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've come up with a few things. I'm sure they'll never put me in the radio hall of fame. I'm. I'm just a hack. But one day, if that day did come, I'm starting to think more and more that second paragraph, one of my great creations of all time, will be fraud Friday. I think it's. I'm starting to think it's. It's my hall of fame moment.

[Don LaGreca]

This may turn into Bullpen Coyote.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'll be. It'll be Whitish Wednesday. When people say, why is Peter Rosenberg a great man? You go, he came up with three things. One, Whitish Wednesday. Two, the Bullpen Coyote. And three, Front Friday. See, and by the way, I'm more than alliteration. I point no further than Bullpen Coyote. No alliteration.

[Alan Hahn]

No, but there's still something to the name that makes it work.

[Don LaGreca]

No, I'm telling you, Don, you weren't there for that. There was nothing greater than that day that all of a sudden we just come up with Bullpen Coyote.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We ran.

[Don LaGreca]

And I might have. I literally was crying tears of laughter during that segment.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was one of those mid summer. What the Hell's going on. One of the things that Knicks are sparing us from right now by giving us just weeks and weeks of content.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's go to Brian and Sleepy Hollow. You're on Don Hun and Rosenberg.

[Caller]

Hey guys, I just want to make a dated reference right now. Swing, swing. I'm, I'm pumped up and I'm sleeping on my back tonight, that's for sure. Yeah, I, you know, I was a little bit out. I was a little bit heartbroken earlier this week. But they, they reeled me back in and there was nothing like, you know, seeing Huckamania Huck 40 go wild. Dropping the leg drop late in that game last night.

[Don LaGreca]

Did you see Brian, the stat that went around? Of course I did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The embiid one.

[Caller]

Yeah, the EMBIID Conference Finals 1 has.

[Don LaGreca]

More points in the conference finals than Joel Embiid.

[Caller]

But yeah, no, January 6th. But hopefully we make a choking gallows outside after game seven in the streets. You know, for Mr. Mr. Halle.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, all I know about that is that's when the show started.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

We're taking January 6th back. Okay. That's what we're gonna do.

[Caller]

Okay, Good, good. Yeah, we need you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don LaGreca]

The choking thing is interesting because of like, will there be some sort of response if they somehow find a way to win the series? You talk about the ultimate choke, blowing a 31 lead. I mean, that's a joke, right? So that's, that, that's, that's on the table.

[Alan Hahn]

Eight games a game. Right. But a series, that's a whole.

[Don LaGreca]

Who would it be? Would it be Josh Hart? Game seven is winding down. The Knicks are about to celebrate the win. Does he turn to Reggie at the on the court and do the choke sign to Reggie? Like, like somebody's got to have that in the bag just, just to make sure, like get that in before it's over. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don LaGreca]

Catch the show on demand. You want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

Game time is brought to you by. Tell them or do Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'S Dolly time.

[Alan Hahn]

The Mets welcome in the Rockies with coverage immediately following us on 880 at 6 30. And the Yankees visit the Dodgers in a World Series matchup. A rematch at 10:10. Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Tim Legolor coming up at the top of the hour. 1-800-919-3776. Let's get back to the busy phones and talk to Patty and Lodi here on Don Hanna. Rosenberg.

[Caller]

Fellas, fellas, real quick. That guy that talked about strangling Jay Williams, I thought that was Peter Back in 2000, watching Duke just dominate Maryland and Jay Williams cook them all day.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Guess what, though, Guess what. Guess where we ended up landing on in 2002, though. Championship.

[Caller]

Let's not talk about that one. We're not talking about that one. We're Talking about the 2000 or something around there. But not father. I just want to say Mikel Bridges, he's just so frustrating sometimes. He's just so frustrating because you have a performance like game four where he's getting cooked up and down by Halliburton and yesterday he decided to play physical basketball. I don't, like you said, up and down the court on top of, on top of Halibur, going up and down and it's just, and then getting to a spot with a shot and hitting like hitting all his little mid ranges and it's like, why can't this happen almost every game with him? Why?

[Don LaGreca]

You said something about Towns as well, right? Like, like they're, that's, that's this team. Yeah, they are, they are made this way where they're, they're really good at times. And then there's times where it's like, okay, I just saw that, saw you play really good. What's this today? Like, why. But that's the difference to me between like, like Michael Wilbourne was saying this this morning on get up. And it really is interesting. The superstars bring it every night. The really good players show it to you, but can't really do it every night. And that's the part where you know it. You know you can get it once in a while from, from them, but they just, every single game, it's not possible. The superstars, it's every game. And that's the, that can be maddening because you see the potential, but it isn't going to be there every single night and you need it. But right now, in a series like this, you needed four times more than the other teams play.

[Alan Hahn]

It is what it is, guys. They are, they are a good team, but they are going to be a maddening team. That's why they didn't win the conference. That they finished in third. That's why they played six games against the Pistons. Like it's, it's kind of what it is, right? I mean, you know, you know, Thunder a great team and they, they don't baffle you as much, you know.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, because they have a guy that. Yeah, but SGA brings it pretty much every night. But that's. I think what, what hangs over bridges and will continue to are the picks that were given up to get him. If they just traded, you know, two picks and you know, like nobody would bat an eye. It's because it was five first round picks and people can't get over that. You know, it's. It's sort of the. What you cost, you need to now live up to that price. And he. And there are times, as we said, the end of those games, games one and two in Boston, there are times where he. It's worth it is like last night, what he did against Halliburton, like that's becomes worth it. And I don't know if it ever really goes away unless they can get to a finals. And he's a big part of keeping Halliburton in check that can somehow make this comeback, this miracle comeback happen.

[Alan Hahn]

These playoffs for the most part have changed what happened and what the feeling was in the regular season because he's had his moments in the past.

[Don LaGreca]

He's had. Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

So. And I guess as they continue to play and if he can find it, it's still a possibility they could be salvaged. Howard in Boston. You're on ESPN New York.

[Caller]

Hey guys, how are you? I hope you'll indulge me. I gotta speak fast. We are packing up the family and flying to Indianapolis.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

You know, it's actually cheaper to fly a family of three for the weekend and go to that game than go to msg. It's. It's.

[Alan Hahn]

I've heard that a lot, man. I am not sure I find fans on the road, they say the same thing.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, Alan, I hope I see it saying almost tomorrow. I don't know if you're going to be in town or not, but big dinner included, still cheaper anyway. And the reason I want to see Alan, I've called into radio one time ever. It was a year ago. You interviewed me several times. I created the Starberry with Steph when I was at Stephen Barry's. Oh yeah, many years ago. And you died.

[Don LaGreca]

Yes.

[Caller]

Anyway, look, the point I wanted to make. I want to throw love to Tibbs. As much hate as he's taken Every time they lose to put Bridges on Halliburton from the floor, which forced Indiana into a half court game that they do not play was genius and. And so needed. And then also taking Jalen off the ball for half court to allow the ref not get beat up and think about play. I just thought those were so critical. Should have been done a long time ago and frankly should have been done when they were all 11 against all the best teams in the league throughout the whole season, which nobody's talking about. These are moves that should have been done much earlier in the season.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Anyway, back to you guys. Go Nick.

[Don LaGreca]

Good stuff, Howard. That's. That is something that like people have been asking for. And it was mostly like McBride, Wright and. And Hart were bringing the ball up more than Brunson was to avoid them trapping and picking him up and then he would get the ball. Now, there were times where in transition, Brunson would just take it himself and try to beat the defense before it got set. But it is, it's a good observation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I will tell you though, I'm looking right now at the. The tickets in Indy. Yeah, it's still shockingly expensive. I mean you can luck out and you can find $250 seats in like the 200 level.

[Don LaGreca]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But like the second you get down to the lowest level, you're still talking about in the 700, 1200. It's a lot even in Indy, man.

[Don LaGreca]

By the way, to hope you're going to get some New Yorkers that are going to want to buy them. So you're going to jack up the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alan, you listen, you got some things right on basketball this week. You've gotten some other takes not so right. I think yesterday on the show you said you didn't see Pat McAfee responding to John Cougar Mellencamp. It didn't go that way.

[Don LaGreca]

I. That's. Yeah, that was a little bit of a surprise. But then again, maybe I shouldn't have been surprised.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was sports shirt.

[Don LaGreca]

I thought he was going to. To take more of the Hey, I just got caught in a moment kind of thing, which is the original explanation that he made. But I guess he decided no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Shut the. Shut the bleep up is strong.

[Don LaGreca]

Dial it. Yeah, Dial it up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a strong one.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. There's no confusion around that.

[Don LaGreca]

No, that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Usually when people say that fighting words are usually what comes to mind. I mean, it's Shut the bleep up is one notch away from what one people would describe as inviting someone to your private parts, if you know what I mean. It's one. Would you agree? One step.

[Don LaGreca]

Pretty close, yeah. It's a clean version, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the clean invitation to your privates. That's exactly what that is.

[Don LaGreca]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.