I' Han (1:39)

So you and Alan switched seats here. He's flying the plane.

Peter Rosenberg (1:42)

He's going to fly the plane. And you're.

I' Han (1:46)

I didn't know what happened. I thought maybe.

Peter Rosenberg (1:48)

I thought it was a little aggressive that he took the big seat, but that's all right.

Don Hahn (1:52)

Oh, now it's the big chair.

Peter Rosenberg (1:54)

Well, it's kind of known as the big chair. Did Kay ever sit to either side of us?

Don Hahn (2:00)

Did he ever not lead?

Peter Rosenberg (2:02)

No point.

Don Hahn (2:03)

See?

I' Han (2:04)

See? See the difference?

Peter Rosenberg (2:05)

Well, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it was a little ballsy.

I' Han (2:09)

Real quick, this conversation. You guys had a chat like, hey, I'm gonna lay back. And Alan said, no problem, Captain. No, I'm step in here and take the lead.

Peter Rosenberg (2:17)

The true leader of the show, Anthony Pusick, said we're going to have Alan lead.

Don Hahn (2:22)

Okay.

Peter Rosenberg (2:22)

And I'm like, okay, sounds good.

I' Han (2:24)

But Then you didn't know Alan was going to go beeline right for the seat and put you on the side like some sort of stinking minion, is what you're saying.

Peter Rosenberg (2:31)

I won't go that strong. But if I had a vote between that and I'm cool.

Don Hahn (2:35)

I do recall a conversation we had. We started this show about one third. One third, One third.

I' Han (2:40)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (2:40)

All for one. One for all three Musketeer. Yeah, Right. Yeah. Well, we're all we got. We're all we need.

I' Han (2:46)

No, it's true.

Don Hahn (2:47)

I heard all that and now it's like, how dare you?

Peter Rosenberg (2:50)

You sit in the seat now all of a sudden.

Don Hahn (2:54)

Because I'm here going, well, I guess I'll lead the way.

I' Han (2:56)

So let's sit where every time somebody's been sitting in my.

Peter Rosenberg (3:01)

I never said anything negative. I didn't say, oh, my. I just made the statement that it was a bit bold because Alan. Alan's that kind of guy, was like this cool.

Don Hahn (3:12)

You're right.

I' Han (3:13)

He is a this cool kind of guy. Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (3:14)

But he saw that seat and pounced on it like a loose ball.

I' Han (3:18)

Yeah, he did like the Knicks last night. And poor Don was left with his eyes wide like Cash Patel this morning. You know what I mean?

Don Hahn (3:26)

Eyes wide. How about. How about Adam Silver right now? Would you. Would you want to be in his. Shoot.

Peter Rosenberg (3:31)

I got to tell you, after two.

I' Han (3:32)

Great nights of NBA action, if I'm.

Peter Rosenberg (3:34)

Adam Silver, seriously, and I'm sure everybody heard the news about what took place.

Don Hahn (3:37)

Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll explain everything.

Peter Rosenberg (3:40)

Is that if. If I'm Adam Silver, I got to get out in front of this. No, like I.

Don Hahn (3:44)

Well, you put out a statement.

Peter Rosenberg (3:46)

Let's hear it.

Don Hahn (3:47)

The statement.

Peter Rosenberg (3:48)

Yes, I want to hear the statement from our fearless leader, Adam Silver.

Don Hahn (3:52)

The statement that I received this morning.

I' Han (3:54)

Oh, he sent it directly.

Don Hahn (3:56)

Is that directly to me at 12:14pm today.

I' Han (3:59)

That's nice.

Don Hahn (3:59)

Yes. You see, it's.

Peter Rosenberg (4:00)

It's.

Don Hahn (4:01)

It's it's to me.

I' Han (4:02)

Yeah, that's.

Don Hahn (4:03)

So who else got it? I don't know.

I' Han (4:04)

I didn't get it.

Don Hahn (4:05)

The only name on here is mine.

I' Han (4:06)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (4:06)

Thank you. Right. Madam.

I' Han (4:07)

Alan wanted to talk to you.

Don Hahn (4:09)

Yeah, we are in the process. We're in the process of reviewing the federal indictments announced today. Terry Rozier and Chauncey Billups are being placed on immediate leave from their teams, and we will continue to cooperate with the relevant authorities. We take these allegations with the utmost seriousness and. And the integrity of our game remains our top priority.

Peter Rosenberg (4:41)

Now, if you remember the Black sox scandal of 19. Oh, yeah, I was there like it was yesterday, 19. That if you saw the movie Eight Men out, the way everybody kind of knows the history of that, is that Charles Kaminsky was the owner of the White Sox and the suggestion to him was, get behind this investigation. Make it seem like you're leading the investigation. The perception to the public has to be that Adam Silver is all over this because the reputation of the league is on the line.

Don Hahn (5:16)

Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (5:17)

All right. Now, do I think that games are being fixed and it's not all in the up and up? No, I don't. I believe that something was going on on the side. But what hurts more than anything else is the reputation of this league. If Adam Silver's behind it, don't fight it. Be on board. Be aggressive. Make it seem like you're leading this investigation. Find things, excommunicate. The players involved, the coaches involved.

I' Han (5:42)

But he doesn't have to. I don't think he'll have to fake that. Won't he want to?

Peter Rosenberg (5:45)

Yeah, no, but I'm saying he should want to do that. But even if he doesn't have the authority necessarily to void contracts or to lead any kind of investigation that the FBI is involved in. No, no. It's about the perception of. You're getting out in front of this because the reputation of your league was sullied today, and you've got to be able to correct that.

Don Hahn (6:09)

Well, the first. First thing you do, obviously, is to say that these guys are away from the sport. Like, you want to make that clear. Right. Right off the bat, but just to catch everybody up in case you weren't on social media or weren't able to keep up, you're just getting out of work and you're like, what are you talking about? What the hell just happened? This is a major, major gambling scandal, a sting, if you would, that the FBI has uncovered and announced today, which is. The timing of it is incredible when you consider the fact that the NBA season just opened. Yeah. So, you know, like to hold it until this morning, waiting for what? Last night was the full. A full schedule of games. Tuesday night was. Was a soft open. You could say NBC had a double header. But last night was a full schedule. The whole league was playing. And then today, boom, this drops. So Chauncey Billups, who's now, as you know, he's a Hall of Famer and a former player, he's a. He's the trailblazers head coach. And Terry Rozier, a player for the Miami Heat, who also played in Charlotte and in Boston, and former Cleveland Cavaliers player and assistant coach Damon Jones. All of them were arrested this morning as part of a pair of wide ranging investigations related to illegal sports betting and. And rigged poker games backed by the mafia. Oh yeah, that was what was announced here. 34 people in total were arrested. It was a result of a years long investigation covering 11 states and tens of millions of dollars. Multiple charges involved for the mafia families, you can name them, organized crime networks and the money that involves the fraud. Here's the quote from Peter, your favorite person, Cash Patel, the FBI director.

I' Han (7:59)

He's good, he's competent.

Don Hahn (8:01)

The fraud is mind boggling. Is the, that's the lead quote. Mind boggling?

Peter Rosenberg (8:05)

The fraud?

Don Hahn (8:06)

Yeah, mind boggling. Okay, so Rosier was arrested. Rosier was arrested this morning. The Heat plate in Orlando last night and stayed overnight. They arrested him at the team hotel in the morning. So he's arrested. He was accused of participating in the sports betting scheme that used insider information. You saw this with John Tay Porter, Michael Porter Jr's brother that had come out earlier. Rosier apparently was doing the same things that he was already under investigation by the league. They were using information. Basically he knows who's playing, who's not.

Peter Rosenberg (8:40)

Right?

Don Hahn (8:41)

Players know stuff. So this was an investigation that involves at least seven NBA games between March 23 and March of 24. It involved the Hornets, the Magic, the Trailblazers, the Lakers and the Raptors. So you're talking about a significant portion of the league and a bunch of games. In three of the seven games, players intentionally remove themselves from contests to benefit the gambler's bets. That's once again the prop of unders and all that other stuff.

Peter Rosenberg (9:11)

Sure.

I' Han (9:12)

Or point totals player 20.

Don Hahn (9:15)

The other one is the, the poker game thing, which while the sports betting one is one, we all kind of think that's the one that's immoral. Right. This one feels like a movie.

I' Han (9:27)

This is, this is an episode of Soprano. It's just, you could picture it in Soprano.

Don Hahn (9:31)

Like I said, we've seen movies based on stuff like this. So Billups. And he was arrested, they played last night. He was arrested at home in Oregon. He's charged in a separate indictment. Now this alleges a wide ranging scheme to rig underground poker games that were backed by mafia families. The defendants are accused of using technology to steal millions from victims in the New York area.

Peter Rosenberg (9:56)

The technology is amazing.

Don Hahn (9:58)

When they went into detail, Don, you're talking about they had card readers, they had tables that were set up to A point where the table could see the cards face down, X ray the.

Peter Rosenberg (10:12)

Bottom of the table and send you pictures.

Don Hahn (10:14)

So you knew had what hand they were. There were like they were the automated dealer. It would know by the shuffle. Automated shufflers, it would know what cards were going where and who had what.

Peter Rosenberg (10:25)

Yeah, there'll be cards that were marked with something that can be only seen by certain glasses that would be worn.

Don Hahn (10:33)

Unreal. So the details of that go. Just go into those. It almost was, I hate to use this word, fascinating detail that they went to these games. Now they would attract big money fish who wanted to play big money high stakes poker with celebrities.

Peter Rosenberg (10:54)

And those celebrities would be called face cards. And that Chauncey Billups was considered the celebrity.

Don Hahn (10:58)

And Billups was considered, hey, you can play poker with the hall of Fame.

I' Han (11:01)

And they're alleging that he knew though that he was, he was part of the operation.

Peter Rosenberg (11:05)

He got a piece.

Don Hahn (11:06)

He got a piece.

Peter Rosenberg (11:06)

Now whether he knew or he thought.

Don Hahn (11:08)

That was a appearance feed.

Peter Rosenberg (11:09)

Yeah, I mean he might be able to get up from this just by the Shearer. I didn't know. They didn't tell me. I. But he did get a piece of it. And that's why I think that it's separate between the Rozier stuff. Because Billups is not being accused of any fixing of games or any point shaving. It's two separate things. There's a huge sting that evolved many, many different allegations. Many years. This went really, really deep into it. The NBA's a part of it, a significant part of it. But as Alan said, the reason they announced it on opening day and some of the names are recognizable. This adds a little bit of fuel to the investigation, makes it a little more sexy. So it's not just an NBA thing, but the NBA seems to be a big part of this.

Don Hahn (11:57)

It's almost like the ignorance is not a defense in this. It can't be. It can't be. First of all, poker games in the NBA, in all pro sports been going on since pro sports began. Sure, these guys especially once money, once these guys were being paid large sums of money and traveling the way they travel, there's always these unbelievable stories about poker games that happen on team charters to a point now where a lot of teams, it's illegal, like they tell you can't do it. But there was a time in the 90s especially like there are stories about players who lost tens of thousands of dollars to teammates. There are stories that are told about player versus player where you see a fight in a game. And you're like, what's that beef all about? Not about a hard foul. It was about a poker game. You didn't pay. And there's a lot of trash talk that it gets involved. And all of it has to do with you owe this guy money. Like, it's. This has been going on. This is nothing new when it comes to poker games and high stakes poker in the sport. But what this is about is attracting people to play and to basically cheat them out of their money.

I' Han (13:02)

Yeah. To rip them off. And it's completely. Not only that, to get them in the door and get their money right. By selling the faces of recognizable NBA players or personalities, coaches. That's a crazy. That you talk about, Don. You can't picture an episode of Sopranos where they get like a guest star from the NBA and it's like, oh, yeah, I'm working a game. I got a hustle going on here with Chauncey Billups. And we'd be watching at home going, well, that's random. They got Chauncey Billups to be an episode of the Sopranos. That's what it feels like. And when you see.

Peter Rosenberg (13:31)

They would have probably gotten a former net, right? Like, yeah, like Van Horn would have been there or something like that.

Don Hahn (13:36)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (13:36)

They'd always throw like a devil net, New Jersey thing.

Don Hahn (13:41)

Right.

I' Han (13:41)

But it does feel like that. And it's all. I mean, the names involved, the. The mob families are the big dogs.

Don Hahn (13:48)

Just from reading the. The information here, it's like the poker one too. Because we all know what happens in this. In the sports betting, they're just. You're basically just. You're tanking.

Peter Rosenberg (13:57)

Right.

Don Hahn (13:58)

Bet the underall tank. I'm not. I'm gonna say I was sick. I don't come in. Like, everybody knows that that's how that works. That's immoral. It's bad for the game. And somebody's. Somebody's benefiting off of it. This is much different. So Since April of 2019, victims that were lured into these games have lost at least $7 million. According to the indictment, one lost $1.8 million. Now, these aren't poor people. These aren't people that are going in these games. And they have nothing to their name. I mean, they obviously have a ton of money. But the fact that this was going on, you're using rig shuffling machines, you're using hidden cameras. It's just. It's like Don was saying, the amount of technology that they used in this stuff and how much it worked is weird. So they, why they got Billups was there was a game that they knew about in Vegas using a rig shuffling machine in April 2019. And victims were defrauded about 50 grand following another game in October 2012, 2020, Billups was wired 50 grand for his participation. So, like, what can he. What is he like, Is he thinking, Well, I don't know what the argument is going to be. What is the defense going to be?

Peter Rosenberg (15:21)

Well, the defense is going to be that I was asked to be a celebrity at a poker game and they paid me to be there, and I was 50 grand. I have no idea that there was anything illegal going on. Now, is it possible they never told him and said, hey, you're a celebrity. We want to draw some fans in to play poker. You're a fan of poker, we'll give you 50 grand and no questions asked. Now, I'm not saying that's a defense.

Don Hahn (15:45)

But how does he not know that it's rigged? Because, you know, what is he. If he's playing, is he putting in his own money? They just say, we'll cover you.

Peter Rosenberg (15:54)

Well, what if the accused.

Don Hahn (15:55)

If he's losing money, too? What if he's losing?

Peter Rosenberg (15:57)

I guess what happened is if the accused said, listen, we never told him, then I guess he can get up there looking for.

Don Hahn (16:02)

Yeah. Now again, I mean, you know, it's. It's a bad look. That's a bad look. But that feels more like a movie. It feels more compelling.

Peter Rosenberg (16:10)

But.

Don Hahn (16:10)

And it's. It's not right. But the. But the sports betting stuff that Damon Jones is involved in, both of these things that the sports betting one, if you're Adam Silver, is the one that worries you more.

Peter Rosenberg (16:22)

And also, it's not good that you've got former NBA players mixed up with the mob.

Don Hahn (16:29)

Well, I mean.

I' Han (16:30)

Yeah, all right, none of that.

Peter Rosenberg (16:31)

I mean, and then that was always the scare about the gambling is like, well, listen, these guys make a lot of money. Why would they rig a game? Because they. Why would they jeopardize. Well, you get jeopardized because you know what you get, you get involved with the wrong people, and then all of a sudden, now you get in some debt and you've got. You can't pay it off, and you've got the mob telling you, throw a game. What are you going to do? Now, I'm not saying that happened, but how does it look for the NBA that current and former players and coaches are involved with the Mafia?

Don Hahn (17:04)

Don, this is. This is. You go back to 1919. You brought that Up. Yeah, but college basketball was in a shambles back in the 20s and 30s, the whole CCNY. Right? You remember all that stuff in the Garden? It was all because the mob got the players. It's the same thing, right? And if it goes beyond. Well, the players just want money. They're looking for extra money. They weren't paid a lot of money, whatever it was. It also was. They started threatening families like that. That's what. That's the scary part of the. Of the Mafia influence is that once you come in and you agree to do one, and then you're like, no, I don't want to do this anymore. Well, it's too late now. No, no, we need you.

Peter Rosenberg (17:47)

Right?

Don Hahn (17:47)

And you don't want to do it. It's gonna be uncomfortable.

Peter Rosenberg (17:50)

And, you know, that's it. That's exaggerating one way. But more logically, it's, hey, even though I'm making millions of dollars, I've got a debt of, say, 600 grand.

Don Hahn (17:58)

There's that, too.

Peter Rosenberg (17:59)

And then they say to you, listen, forget about it. You don't have to pay me back the 600 grand. Just make sure the team you play for doesn't win by X amount of points.

I' Han (18:09)

Right? It's not a big deal.

Peter Rosenberg (18:10)

And then the player thinks to himself, well, we're still gonna win the game anyway.

Don Hahn (18:14)

Wasn't that what Pete Rose said? I'll never bet on my team to lose.

Peter Rosenberg (18:17)

Right.

I' Han (18:18)

And by the way, I understand the moral argument he's making, but it doesn't hold up from a legal standpoint.

Peter Rosenberg (18:22)

No, it doesn't hold up from a legal standpoint. And eventually you do get to a point where if your debt's that bad, maybe you do have to throw the game. And then we're talking about props. So we're not even talking about the games. We're just talking about the fact that a guy could have played and didn't play, or a guy comes out of a game or what you could see, too, you know, this doesn't get talked about enough is these props of, like, how many yards or how many points a guy's gonna have. And if he plays a certain amount of minutes, then the bet kicks in. So does he drag himself out there, even though he's not supposed to play, just to get it? Or does he drag himself out of the game so the bet doesn't count? There's so many ways things can get manipulated. And now the gambling is legal, it becomes more of a moral argument. Before, when gambling was illegal, nobody felt bad for These people, if they got job, you weren't supposed to be betting anyway. But now betting is legal. So if there's something untoward going on and I go to DraftKings or FanDuel and I bet it, well, guess what? I got robbed of my money because they got something going on.

Don Hahn (19:26)

Yeah. Well, here's a great example. And this is the last example we'll give. This is now on the sports betting side. March 23, 2023, a better at a sportsbook in Biloxi, Mississippi, placed $13,759 in bets on the Unders on Rozier's statistics in a game the night between the Hornets and the Pelicans. All 30 bets won. He exited the game. He exited 10 minutes into the game citing a foot issue.

Peter Rosenberg (19:56)

There you go. That's it. That's the example.

Don Hahn (19:59)

That's, it's, that's a red flag right there. That's your example.

Peter Rosenberg (20:01)

Right. And if I'm betting with an illegal bookie, well, you know, what are you gonna do? Who are you gonna call?

Don Hahn (20:05)

Cop.

Peter Rosenberg (20:06)

But if I.

Don Hahn (20:08)

If you're the house. If you're, if you're the sportsbook, you're like, whoa, wait, wait, wait.

Peter Rosenberg (20:11)

No, exactly.

Don Hahn (20:12)

I'm not giving out this money.

Peter Rosenberg (20:12)

Like, what's going on here? It's, it's, it's. It's a pretty ugly situation. Wanna let you know there are a lot of reasons why people buy at Ramsey. Mods their selection, it's their customer service, and it's their savings. Get 1.9% financing on a new Mazda 2025 CX50 or lease for $219 for 36 months. Start shopping now at ramseymazda.com, choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for lease details. Fin SN 390557 MSRP $32,455. Zero security deposit APR $17.48 per $1,000 financed end 1031, 25. The irritating thing for me, though, is we hear there's an hypocrisy because we're gonna do our. We're gonna talk about our bets, right? We're gonna make our picks and we've got FanDuel and we got DraftKings. We've got MGM. How hypocritical. It's not this. What they did was illegal. Both things can exist. We can bet legally and have our apps and talk about it and have an advertise while we're talking about this and and then have this happen. That's a completely different situation. So please spare me the whole all that, you hypocrites, because you're still gonna be talking about all of your apps and your betting. Yeah. Legal betting. This stuff was going on, guys, way before gambling was legalized. Matter of fact, a lot of these allegations probably happened before they legalized gambling. So stop clutching your pearls saying the hypocrisy of both of this going on. Both things can exist, guys. You can do something responsibly or do something irresponsibly. And the people that did something irresponsibly are going to get punished for it.

Don Hahn (21:52)

It's taking advantage of the system is what does any.

I' Han (21:56)

Do we know that any of this will directly have to do with legal gambling?

Peter Rosenberg (22:00)

No, but I'm already hearing.

Don Hahn (22:03)

But these were made. These were legal, legal bets that were placed.

I' Han (22:07)

That were placed at do we.

Don Hahn (22:10)

There was one sports book in Biloxi.

I' Han (22:12)

But a sports book in Biloxi. The thing is, is that new. Like people are gonna think it's part of the new legalized sports gambling online everywhere.

Don Hahn (22:19)

Well, the online part that was more the Porter stuff. Johntay Porter. Right. He was giving people, a group of people a heads up on things.

I' Han (22:28)

Go online and bet this.

Don Hahn (22:29)

Yeah. Do this, do this, do this. Or even like I'm there. There's a prop on me. Which by the way, the fact like maybe that's the other thing. If you want to regulate anything there should be. We do not need a prop bet on a two way player from the G League. Like you're always going to bet the under.

Peter Rosenberg (22:44)

Yeah.

I' Han (22:44)

And by the way, how is that.

Don Hahn (22:45)

Even winning anything anyway?

Peter Rosenberg (22:46)

I know.

I' Han (22:46)

And these are guys who are making a very minimum salary know they won't be in the league for a very long time.

Don Hahn (22:51)

Yeah.

I' Han (22:51)

Such a higher chance they would try to take.

Don Hahn (22:53)

Now Rozier is a good player who is going to have.

I' Han (22:56)

What he's done is. This isn't meant to sound holier than that. I'm just being truthful. What he's done is just put a stink on his entire career.

Don Hahn (23:02)

Yeah.

I' Han (23:03)

And that's unfortunate. I'm watching right now on Twitter people putting up just compilations of him just taking horrible shots.

Don Hahn (23:08)

How about the one. There was one video which hands the ball away.

I' Han (23:11)

Basically.

Don Hahn (23:11)

Literally he's at mid court and just. Just gives the ball away to no one.

I' Han (23:16)

It's like. And people are posting like, oh my God, was it this obvious?

Don Hahn (23:19)

Yeah.

I' Han (23:20)

And for a guy who had a nice career, worked really hard, sort of A workman made a lot of money. You're going to leave now with everyone remembering your name is. Oh, you were that guy.

Don Hahn (23:28)

Yeah.

I' Han (23:29)

Hard to imagine he escapes that.

Don Hahn (23:31)

I wonder how many current and former NBA players right now are a little nervous.

Peter Rosenberg (23:36)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (23:37)

Even if they any type of weight. Think about it. If they pulled pulled the thread on this sweater to get this far, do they keep pulling?

I' Han (23:46)

Well, not only that. So you're talking about guys who did something.

Don Hahn (23:49)

I'm talking about the more the poker games.

Peter Rosenberg (23:51)

But. Right.

I' Han (23:52)

But what if there were guys who were just like, well, yo, I played in a poker game with that guy. But I never.

Don Hahn (23:56)

Yeah, I know. That's what I mean.

I' Han (23:58)

I just.

Don Hahn (23:59)

If this is as far as they've gone, we'll see. But again, the day after the NBA and the day after full schedule and.

I' Han (24:05)

The day after the Knicks impress all of us and get this win, here we are in New York talking about this. And that is what makes it such a huge black eye third day of the season. Great start to the year. And this is all anyone's talking about.

Don Hahn (24:18)

Yama has a game of like that tells you puts the whole league on notice.

I' Han (24:22)

And we should be getting to celebrate Cooper flag falling flat on his face in his debut. And instead we're talking about this. It's not right.

Don Hahn (24:28)

Duke haters.

I' Han (24:31)

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Peter Rosenberg (25:30)

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Don Hahn (25:38)

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I' Han (25:58)

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Don Hahn (26:29)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

I' Han (26:32)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don Hahn (26:33)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. This is him shining.

Peter Rosenberg (26:42)

Yeah. He's telling everybody that he's listening to the show.

I' Han (26:46)

To hold them, know when to follow them, Know when to walk away, know when to run.

Peter Rosenberg (26:55)

There was a period in this country, yeah, probably 80, 81, where there was no bigger star on the planet. Kenny Rogers.

Don Hahn (27:04)

I, I, I actually believe that every song he by bigger, you don't mean in stature.

Peter Rosenberg (27:10)

I mean. No, no, no.

Don Hahn (27:11)

What?

Peter Rosenberg (27:11)

What? No, he was never a morbidly obese man.

Don Hahn (27:14)

That's obese.

Peter Rosenberg (27:15)

But when you, when I say he's the biggest man on the planet. No, he was huge. Like, every song was a hit. And all that early 80s country crossover into the top 40, he was a major part of that.

I' Han (27:27)

I was Irish.

Don Hahn (27:28)

Then MTV came around and then I. Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (27:30)

And he was done.

Don Hahn (27:31)

Then it was over. Now MTV's gone. Come back.

I' Han (27:33)

He was six zero six on the dot.

Don Hahn (27:35)

He looked little. No. Yeah.

I' Han (27:39)

I, I recently watched Kenny and Dolly performing. Oh, wow. At Kenny's farewell show.

Peter Rosenberg (27:47)

Okay.

I' Han (27:48)

Oh, I was a puddle.

Don Hahn (27:49)

I, I tear. It just, I mean, the whole thing.

I' Han (27:51)

He, and he wasn't like, in bad shape.

Don Hahn (27:53)

What was their song?

I' Han (27:53)

But it was. Oh, they had a few. Then they have two or three.

Peter Rosenberg (27:56)

Did they?

I' Han (27:57)

They had the really big one that.

Don Hahn (27:59)

Was Islands in the Street.

I' Han (28:00)

Islands in the Stream. That is super big. Don't they have another one too, Don?

Peter Rosenberg (28:05)

Yes, I do.

Don Hahn (28:06)

They do.

Peter Rosenberg (28:06)

Islands in the Stream. I think that was, that was a Gibbs vehicle, too.

I' Han (28:10)

Written by Gibbs.

Peter Rosenberg (28:11)

Yeah, I think that sounds right because.

I' Han (28:13)

It doesn't sound like country at all. That's what's interesting about Kenny Rogers to me, is that he's like ultimate country with the gambler kind of vibe. But he also has these moments where he kind of swerves into Blue Eyed soul a little bit like he had his little moments, his little dalliances with a little soul.

Peter Rosenberg (28:30)

And then when he started in the 60s, I forget the name of the band that he was in. What my. What condition my condition was in.

I' Han (28:38)

And it was like. It was more of a bop.

Peter Rosenberg (28:40)

Yeah, he was all over the map. But I'm just saying there was a time.

I' Han (28:43)

But I go watch him and Dolly performing that. They did the Islands in the Stream. Whatever.

Don Hahn (28:48)

Were they ever like a thing or did they just do it?

I' Han (28:50)

I think they just did duets.

Don Hahn (28:52)

Because if they were a thing, that's.

Peter Rosenberg (28:53)

A. I mean, I think Dolly got like married at 18 and they stayed married till he just died. Yeah.

Don Hahn (28:58)

I didn't know that.

I' Han (29:00)

Yes. She just lost her husband recently. Last year.

Don Hahn (29:03)

Let's see. They had, I think islands in the streams. The only one anybody knows.

I' Han (29:07)

But there are other ones.

Don Hahn (29:08)

No, they did have other ones, but what's the other? Really big cat million pop ups right now. Is this. Talk about a Tuesday?

Peter Rosenberg (29:14)

I know.

Don Hahn (29:14)

I wish it was because like you can't go to a website and just look for something without a pop up. Here comes a video.

I' Han (29:21)

Well, no.

Caller/Guest (29:22)

And then you're.

I' Han (29:22)

Now you gotta log in now AI answers that you don't want.

Don Hahn (29:25)

Jeez. Oh, yeah. Then there's Chad. How can I help you? He's how you can help me. Go away.

Peter Rosenberg (29:32)

Somebody did a picture of me like in a black cloak with a pitchfork.

Don Hahn (29:38)

It's actually awesome.

Peter Rosenberg (29:39)

It looks like I totally. That you're wearing that. So that's why AI is really scary.

Don Hahn (29:45)

And you did it.

I' Han (29:46)

There's also. You can't make old friends with Dolly Parton.

Don Hahn (29:49)

No idea.

I' Han (29:49)

That's a good. That's a good sign.

Don Hahn (29:50)

Is it?

Peter Rosenberg (29:51)

I don't know.

Don Hahn (29:51)

Nobody's heard.

Peter Rosenberg (29:52)

Sure. Well, no. Well, don't be so dismissive.

I' Han (29:55)

He's being. He's being that guy. You know what? Is it Thursday?

Don Hahn (29:58)

Did you hear that song?

Peter Rosenberg (29:59)

It is. I bet you if Jacob plays it, there's a chance we might have heard it.

Don Hahn (30:04)

I don't know, but.

I' Han (30:06)

What? There's another Kenny Rogers.

Peter Rosenberg (30:07)

I know there is.

I' Han (30:08)

No, no. A big one. You and I talked about.

Don Hahn (30:10)

Here we go. Top 10. Why are we getting on this and not talking Nick's I don't know.

I' Han (30:14)

Well, you know what? It's Thursday.

Don Hahn (30:16)

I listen to the stream. You can't make old friends is number two. There you go. The rest of them we don't know.

I' Han (30:21)

These are all duets between them.

Don Hahn (30:23)

There is a picture of Dolly right now.

Peter Rosenberg (30:24)

Damn, she aged well.

I' Han (30:27)

It's prime. Dolly.

Don Hahn (30:28)

Give Me a sec. Yeah, give me a 20. Can I get a 20?

I' Han (30:29)

I need to take a 20.

Don Hahn (30:31)

I need a 20. The greatest gift of all is apparently a duet between the two.

I' Han (30:36)

They did a bunch together, man.

Don Hahn (30:37)

Real love. See, is this like Whitney and Mary J. Blige songs? Where are we going? Christmas without you. Yeah, see, I'll be home with bells on. Love is strange. Yeah. No, no. Come on. I believe in Santa. Stop it. These are the top 10. I believe in Santa Claus. Yeah. They did one song.

Peter Rosenberg (30:58)

No. Well, I beg to differ. I just wish that Jacob would play one of the songs. I bet you we would know.

I' Han (31:04)

I was telling you that when we get a chance, I'm telling you that you'll know it.

Don Hahn (31:06)

You could beg. Well, in the meantime, talk to the people.

I' Han (31:11)

Shall we?

Don Hahn (31:12)

How about the next?

I' Han (31:13)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (31:13)

Did they do, like, again? It's. It's one of 82. We understand this, but it is against the Cavs. The Cavs were also shorthanded. They were missing three key pieces. The Knicks were missing two. So I think there's so many storylines. Mike Brown played 11 players and not, like, token, like, one guy, 30 seconds, don't you? Oh, my God, like, already. He had no problem going deep into his bench. Towns got in foul trouble bringing in guys. Trey Jemison, like, and he played well. Guys were ready to play. They did play a little faster. Did they have some issues shooting at 3? It's like early season stuff, but for the most part. Did they not look like the aggressors? Did they not look like a team that was ready for that game? And the Cavs looked like a team that was a little more passive and a team that was still trying to, like. They really missed Darius Garland, clearly. Donovan Mitchell had a big third quarter, but otherwise they held him down. Just that third quarter, he went crazy. But when it comes to what we were saying yesterday, guys, statement game, or just kind of set a tone, whatever it is, without Josh Hart, without Mitchell Robinson, that team looked like that's how you start a season. Agree or disagree?

Peter Rosenberg (32:26)

I completely agree. And I never had any doubt. So when I was complaining about Mitch not playing, it wasn't like it's going to hurt their chances of winning. I just didn't like taking a knee on opening night. But to beat the Cavaliers, after not beating them all of last year, being able to have a really good rotation with a guy's playing a bunch, having Cat want to play, play major minutes, you just got to love the whole vibe of it. How was the Garden?

Don Hahn (32:52)

Electric. It really Was. People were into it. The celebrities were everywhere. Everywhere you looked, you know, it was. That was cool to see. It felt like it's not a playoff game, but it had that feeling of this is bigger than just a regular season game. Even for opening night. It just felt big.

I' Han (33:09)

A lot of people in there last night.

Peter Rosenberg (33:11)

Friday will be big, too, because it's Boston.

Don Hahn (33:13)

Boston. And it's a Friday night. But it was wild. So Carmelo Anthony's there. They do a big. And they do a nice video with his hall of Fame speech and him talking about what the Knicks mean to him and what New York means to him. And they play that. Then they put him on camera, and of course, he gets a rousing standing ovation. And then when he sits down, what you realize is he's sitting next to Aaron Judge.

I' Han (33:40)

Oh, yeah.

Don Hahn (33:41)

And Judge's wife Samantha is sitting between them. And here's the thing with Mello. How many other people can get away with this? He sits courtside. He's got his glasses on. He's looking cool. And in his hand is a rocks glass. Glass, not plastic glass. He's got his 1800 in the rocks glass sitting there. No one else can have glass courtside except Carmelo Anthony. So he's just sitting there chilling, having a little bit, you know, having his 1800 sipping.

I' Han (34:12)

That's his preference.

Don Hahn (34:13)

Well, it's his brand.

I' Han (34:14)

Oh, he's down with 18.

Don Hahn (34:15)

He's. Yeah, he's down with it. So he said. But the best part is, is that Samantha, Judge's wife, is chatting him up. And so he's talking and smiling, and then Judge turns, and the two of them start talking. So there's a game going on, and I'm, like, standing there watching, sitting, watching the two of them having this animated. Two mega stars in New York having a animated conversation with each other during a Nick. During a basketball game. And I'm thinking, like, where else is this happening? And apparently, I guess I saw this thing on social media. Judges walk up. Song has. I'm the King of. Has a lyric in it. I'm the king of New York. Mellow. I'm sure Jake can find it.

I' Han (34:54)

That's pop Smoke record.

Don Hahn (34:55)

Yeah, Pop smoke, right. And he says. And it says mellow. So it's like words come to life.

I' Han (35:02)

Awesome.

Don Hahn (35:03)

Again, where else you. Where else you get.

Peter Rosenberg (35:04)

What could they have been talking about?

Don Hahn (35:05)

That's. I mean, can we get Samantha on this caller? She was sitting right between him. She knows everything that was said.

I' Han (35:10)

I mean, there's so many things they.

Don Hahn (35:11)

Could have Been spill the tea. But it was like, cool. That's just a cool moment that happened. But the game itself, the crowd was really into it. And the good thing that happened was the beginning of the game. You just saw the Knicks played like everything that they were being sold as they were in the first quarter. They saw 33 points, the ball was moving. Bridges played terrific. It was just everything that you wanted to see. You saw. They took a lead, they were in control, and the place was roaring and it just didn't stop. And so it was a good opener.

Peter Rosenberg (35:46)

And how money would it be if there is load management and they're still finding ways to win?

Don Hahn (35:53)

Well, again, Huck Porty, who again, you wouldn't know him if he walked in the studio, right? Young guy, very raw. They're trying to teach him. But he's got the same type of characteristics of Mitchell Robinson when it comes to athleticism, length, you know, aggressive rebounder, physical. All the stuff you're looking for in a big man, like to play that way. And Mike Brown, instead of like shuffling the deck, just goes, no, no, we'll just pop him in and he'll play the role of Mitchell Robinson. And while he wasn't exactly the same level, of course he rebounded, he hit people hard. He, you know, he set screens, he was active, he blocked. He had this one block on Moby that was pretty aggressive. But that's like, that's what you're supposed to do. Coach a guy up, fill the spot. Let's keep it moving. Next man up. So all the things that you would hope to see, I think you saw last night. Now again, there's still 81 to go. But first impressions are always important in this town. And that was, that was a really good first impression.

I' Han (36:53)

You got to feel good if you're a Knicks fan. Today there was. It was you. You had a feeling it was trending towards they don't win. Like over the last first few days, it felt that way.

Don Hahn (37:03)

Anunoby and Towns being qu. You know, being on the injured list and game time, I get over to the building and John. So John Starks, you remember, was on with us. We walked, we crossed into the building, we were talking and he said that to me. He's like, you know, you know, they're a game time decision. I'm like, what? Like, why are they like, what are we doing? And he just said, I don't know, I don't know. And the more I kept hearing, like, Towns wants to play, he wants to play. And so Towns wants to Play I know OG wants, but by the way, I don't know. We had 24 and 14. How's the ankle?

I' Han (37:33)

Yeah, apparently all right.

Don Hahn (37:34)

He had an unbelievable steal and a reverse double pump dunk late in the game. I didn't want to ask him when I interviewed him on the court, but I was like, I. I said to him, I was like, how you feeling? He goes, good, I'm just a little chilly. We had to get him a towel.

Peter Rosenberg (37:47)

Oh, my God.

Don Hahn (37:48)

He was cold. But the ankles seem fine. But Townes, I thought after the game, said he played through pain, but he. He wanted to play this game. I've been banged up and haven't really got a chance to practice or play in those last two preseason games, but, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to disappoint. Disappoint the fans. You know, dealing with a great two quad strain, you know, it's not something.

Peter Rosenberg (38:11)

That'S easy to do.

Don Hahn (38:12)

You know, we made it happen tonight. And Bob, the fans respected the effort I put into play tonight, and my teammates really did, too.

Peter Rosenberg (38:17)

So shout out to them, you know.

Don Hahn (38:18)

Supporting me and understanding the situation. So. Grade 2 quad strain, but said I didn't want to disappoint the fans. Isn't that kind of the message we were sending out, right. Opening night?

Peter Rosenberg (38:28)

Yeah, that's what, that's what opening night's supposed to be about. I just.

I' Han (38:32)

I just love that they added a couple of guys with some length and size, and out of the gate, you can feel the difference.

Don Hahn (38:39)

They all played.

I' Han (38:40)

Have they played? We talked about. Starks talked about this yesterday, wanting to see the ball distributed more. They were less reliant on Jalen Brunson.

Don Hahn (38:49)

Oh, I could give you, like, I could geek numbers with you about, like, you know, assist passes, like passes on field goal attempts with Brunson, which was off the. Off the charts. Higher. Less touch time with the basketball, which was much lower. Like, those are things that you notice, but just your eye showed you that ball moved around.

I' Han (39:08)

And I think the number. Starks. When I asked Starks yesterday, how much would you like to see from Brunson in a perfect world, he said 34. 35 minutes a night. Played 34 last night.

Don Hahn (39:17)

Yep.

I' Han (39:19)

Cat, we know he's not 100%, but he gets you a double double. This is what. It's a great start. It's. It's truly a. I know it's been overshadowed by the news of the day in the NBA, but this is a great day.

Peter Rosenberg (39:30)

Yeah, don't Let it go.

Don Hahn (39:31)

No.

Peter Rosenberg (39:32)

If you're a Knicks fan, start.

I' Han (39:35)

Talk about stepping up.

Peter Rosenberg (39:38)

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Don Hahn (39:49)

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Peter Rosenberg (39:51)

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I' Han (39:59)

At shop stream.espn.com Sign up now.

Don Hahn (40:05)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

I' Han (40:09)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don Hahn (40:10)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

I' Han (40:18)

It sounds like the COVID of Love is Strange.

Peter Rosenberg (40:22)

Dirty Dancing.

I' Han (40:23)

Well, the real ones in dancing.

Don Hahn (40:24)

Dirty Dancing.

I' Han (40:25)

The real one.

Peter Rosenberg (40:31)

All right, you know what? Mistakes were made.

Don Hahn (40:33)

All right?

Peter Rosenberg (40:33)

I told you, people do screw things up.

I' Han (40:35)

No, this isn't a good one. This isn't the one I asked for, by the way. But the real one by Love is Strange is I believe, Mickey and the Silvers.

Don Hahn (40:41)

It's nice. Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (40:42)

Good job.

Don Hahn (40:43)

This is a lot of cheese. Way too much cheese.

Peter Rosenberg (40:45)

Yeah, that's way too much.

Don Hahn (40:46)

Sometimes lactose intolerant.

Peter Rosenberg (40:48)

Yeah, that's right.

Don Hahn (40:48)

You get, you're.

I' Han (40:50)

I mean it was the. That's early 60s, whatever it is.

Peter Rosenberg (40:52)

No, the song, the original song.

I' Han (40:54)

The COVID you mean. Like I said, the COVID is left alone.

Don Hahn (40:58)

Just leave it alone.

Peter Rosenberg (40:59)

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Don Hahn (41:30)

How about that? We have. We have football to get to.

Peter Rosenberg (41:33)

Especially though we do anybody taste in this one, this flavor for this.

Don Hahn (41:37)

This jets conversation that we. I'm telling you, I've told everybody about the jets and their problem starts at the top. Well, I'll give you the example of why exactly it starts at the top. We'll get to that. 4 o' clock hour. We got your calls. 800-919-3776 on the Knicks and their season opening win against the Cavs. Tone Setter Jimmy in Connecticut, you start us off. Hey, Jimmy.

I' Han (42:01)

Hey, guys.

Caller/Guest (42:01)

What's going on? So, a lot of things to love about that game. I said I love the fast pace. I love that he used 11 guys and got 35 out of the bench, which was a dream last year. A pipe dream, I should say.

Don Hahn (42:10)

Rare. Very rare.

Caller/Guest (42:11)

Beyond everything. Yes. Incredibly unlikely that you would see that out of that bench last year. But anyway, beyond what you saw, really, on the eye test, I think just coming out of the gate for the morale and the confidence of the team to immediately be an elite team, or a team who's thought to be an elite team is going to be so for just the fields around this team, because, let's face it, last year was a great regular season, but what was the narrative all year long? They can't beat the elite teams. And look, it's one of 82. They could lose the next nine to the elite teams as far as I'm concerned, and then we'd be right back.

I' Han (42:44)

To where we were.

Caller/Guest (42:45)

I don't think it's going to happen, but it just. I feel like it sets a tone that you just. You overcame a hurdle that you couldn't seem to last year, and I think that's really good for this group.

Peter Rosenberg (42:53)

Well, they were an elite team last year. What are the Cavaliers going to be this year? Like, you know, when the elite teams. You knew Boston was an elite.

Don Hahn (42:59)

Cavs are supposed to be the best team in the East.

I' Han (43:01)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (43:01)

But you. When you. When you lost to the Cavs last year, you didn't know that it was an elite team.

Don Hahn (43:05)

Yeah, okay. You know.

Peter Rosenberg (43:06)

You know, I'm saying, like, we'll see. The narrator is going to change. I don't want this to be a referendum on boy tips sucked. And that's not right. But there is a different feel to it.

Don Hahn (43:14)

It's funny you say that, because post game, you could hear it in the voices of Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns. Anything that is said about the offense and the depth of the team and playing players and the ball being shared. Like, both of them are very careful not to speak with too much a bulliance in their voice. They're both just sort of like, yeah, you know, yeah, it's great. Yeah, it's great. They don't want to do that to Tibbs. You can. You can feel that they're being very careful not to. Not to over, like, lay it on thick about just, oh, this is so much better. Like, they don't want to do that right now. David and Elizabeth, you're up next. David.

Caller/Guest (43:52)

What up, boys?

Don Hahn (43:55)

So.

Caller/Guest (43:56)

Yes, sir. Yo, Donnie Parks, man, your box office on tv, brother. I can't wait to go to North. Got to give you your flowers in person, baby.

Peter Rosenberg (44:04)

Well, thank you.

Don Hahn (44:05)

I called the loss yet. Just keep that six and, oh, it's got a winning streak.

I' Han (44:09)

Let's.

Caller/Guest (44:09)

Let's do it, baby. Let's do it. Yo, fellas, before I get into my next point, how about my man Chauncey Billups? You guys didn't know that he knew my man Joey Boom Box and he.

Don Hahn (44:17)

Could work with, huh?

Caller/Guest (44:23)

Joey Boom Bot.

Don Hahn (44:25)

Yeah.

Caller/Guest (44:25)

Anyway, yo, man, it was so beautiful to see us get a W, man. Like, yo, the Mets didn't make the postseason. Hollywood hunt. Our jets stink.

Don Hahn (44:34)

Stink.

Caller/Guest (44:34)

But at least I can hang my hat on Brunson and friends. A real big positive. Even though I. I wanted Jordan Clarkson to come on this team, and he has, and, you know, he played pretty decent last night. I think Tyler Corwick is going to have a banana season, and I think that he's going to be, you know, a real X factor for us coming off the bench, you know, getting those kind of bench points, man. Appreciate you, gentlemen.

Peter Rosenberg (44:53)

Thank you, man. Appreciate it.

Don Hahn (44:55)

Imagine that Malcolm Brogdon retires so Tyler Colic could fly. Imagine that. He monsters. We shall see. But he did play well. Blanderson, Hooper, what's up?

Caller/Guest (45:08)

What's going on, guys?

Don Hahn (45:09)

How you doing?

Caller/Guest (45:12)

I want to apologize. I've got laryngitis, so I don't sound the best yet. But two things about last night. Alan mentioned the 11 players, and we're not talking about 11 players because of garbage time. We're talking about those 11 players got on the court within, I think it was the first 13 minutes of the game.

Peter Rosenberg (45:29)

Oh, yeah.

Don Hahn (45:29)

Early second quarter, where the 11th player came in the game early second quarter. And I believe the 11th player was like Jordan Clarkson. It took forever to get him.

Caller/Guest (45:37)

I don't get played at all in the first quarter.

Don Hahn (45:39)

No, he didn't, because Brunson stayed in the whole first quarter.

Caller/Guest (45:42)

So that was a breath of fresh air. You know, I like that he's mixing and matching and trying to, you know, figure out what combos work, which ones don't. But I really wanted to talk about deuce. He had 15, 4, 6 from 3. Led the team in plus minus. How big of an impact do you think he could have on the team this year? Or do you think last night was more of a Josh Hart wasn't there kind of thing? And so moving Forward. Once Hart's back, he won't be playing.

Don Hahn (46:08)

As many minutes as I know.

Caller/Guest (46:10)

He's exceptional.

Don Hahn (46:11)

Last night he was exceptional because he was 4 for 6 from 3. He was hitting his shots. He also was very aggressive defensively. There's guys on this team that are going to embrace the uptempo style of play and he's one of them. He loves to run. He's an athlete. He loves to get out on the open floor. I think it makes him more aggressive defensively. I just feel like you're going to see more out of him. And so I don't think this is going to be a rare occasion. He's got to knock down those threes, though. He did last night. That part. That part wasn't.

Peter Rosenberg (46:46)

But will it look different when they're complete with Hard Mitch?

Don Hahn (46:51)

Like one thing that I also. I didn't write them down. I'd love to go back if I had the time. Maybe somebody else will. And write down all of the different five man combinations that he used because there had to have been at least six or seven different five man combinations, which means you have a lot of options. And one option I remember in the preseason before Hart got hurt when he first came in the game is it was Clarkson, Hart and McBride come in the game. That's three athletes.

Peter Rosenberg (47:18)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (47:19)

That's changing everything. So I don't think it affects hart. It affects McBride. It probably affects some others. Maybe it affects Kolik. Right. Like the guys that are a little bit deeper in the rotation. But there's a lot of options now with this team and there's a lot of. He's already showing you trust in his depth and he gave everybody a chance to give me a reason not to trust you, and no one did. So it was a good look on the first.

Peter Rosenberg (47:43)

It'll mature as the season goes on.

Don Hahn (47:45)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (47:45)

Because there'll be guys that are off and guys that maybe he doesn't feel great about.

Don Hahn (47:49)

Some get hurt. They'll be back to back.

Peter Rosenberg (47:51)

Always be. 11 every night. Will it?

Don Hahn (47:53)

Oh, no. He even said that.

Peter Rosenberg (47:54)

Yeah, it was.

Don Hahn (47:55)

Towns got into foul trouble early, which is why I think he went to trade Jemison and had him play eight minutes. But still, like, he trusted him enough to put him in the game and he. And he handled himself accordingly, which was all the things you were looking for. So the Knicks get a win in opening night. They play the Celtics tomorrow night. That's an Amazon prime. That Amazon now gets their chance to showcase their new look as they're part of the NBA broadcasting coverage. And that'll be tomorrow night. So no MSG tomorrow night. But of course we'll have coverage here on 880 ESPN New York. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.