A (1:41)

This is, this is one of the best of the. Of the conference championships. It still is to me one of the best because of the history of it. That it's at the Madison Square Garden, that the whole conference comes here. A confluence of different fan bases and there's no better atmosphere than in that building.

C (1:57)

Peter, you're a fraud. You can jump on the St. John's bandwagon.

B (2:00)

It's a great point. I have lived here for a long time. Although. No, no. If I was going be a Rosenberg my true fraud self, it would be jumping back on Georgetown who was.

C (2:09)

Oh yeah, how about that?

B (2:10)

My childhood team up until I went to Maryland and then I felt I had to make a choice and declared. But whenever I see Georgetown's playing a meaningful game, I'm certainly pulling for The

C (2:19)

Bulldogs as meaning Hoyas. That is.

A (2:20)

This is meaningful.

C (2:21)

I'm so thrilled to welcome in the president of the commissioner of the Big East, Val Ackerman. And it's the anniversary of an interview that I did when I was at Sportsphone 30 years ago. We don't know that. The two of us were teenagers and I had a chance to talk to you about being president of the WNBA. And we fast forward 30 years later, we get a chance to talk again. How are you? Couple of. Couple of Jersey people talking some sports. Thanks for giving us a couple of minutes.

E (2:46)

Great to be here, guys. I really appreciate it.

C (2:48)

We were just talking. How exciting is it to get, you know, four original Big east teams still alive here playing in the Garden?

E (2:54)

Well, it's very exciting. I have to just start off being here a lot to take trips to either Providence or D.C. on the train. I just want to give everybody, I want to give a shout out to NIA Express in the corner. That's where I've gotten many a meal, many a healthy meal to take onto the Amtrak. Yes. Very exciting to see, you know, this day come. Right. Because this is really the best event for all of us, too. It's not just the fans, but the people that work on this. We really take great pride in the association with the building, the history that accompanies this event. It's going to be our 44th Big east tournament at MSG, the longest connection between a venue and a conference, I think, in college basketball. And we signed an extension a couple of years ago that's going to keep us there till 2032 at the least, which would give us 50 years at MSG. And even the Garden said, wow, that's, you know, that's pretty cool.

A (3:44)

Yeah.

E (3:44)

So they signed on and we're grateful for that. And, you know, of course, to have these schools that were part of the league back in 1979 that have remained committed to basketball, most of all, that have been through sort of the wars, given the journey of this conference, the history, the comings and the goings over the years. I know, you know, we've got four really happy teams that are getting ready. They're a little bit nervous for what's going to go on tonight in the

A (4:06)

world, in the world of college sports. It really is now. It's always been about the football conferences. Right. The thing that's so unique and I think what you really enjoy, especially being in the Northeast, because we love basketball in Northeast, is the fact that this is really known as a basketball conference. So, like when, how is it to live in that world where, you know, and especially where college sports has gone, the fact that this still is the identity of the Big east and it survives and thrives having that identity as a basketball conference.

E (4:36)

Well, you ought to be in our boardroom then, you know, because that's exactly what our presidents say, what they think and they take a lot of pride in the fact that we are back to the roots of the league. When Dave gave formed it in 1979, it is, you know, when, when I took this position now 13 years ago, I think there were questions about whether a basketball focused league could make it in a football driven world. And you know, while we don't have their revenue and that's, you know, we'd love their revenue because a lot of the revenue college sports come from college football. Yeah, the fact that we can focus on basketball, we can sort of be our true selves about the interest there and the priority that basketball is. And you know, we don't have football expenses either. So we can direct the resources in a very focused way towards operations and coaches and now players because that's now part of the cost of doing business. Now athlete acquisition comes at a higher price and that's all around the house settlement and the revenue sharing model. And you know, we spend a lot of time thinking about what that means for us. Our athletics directors are out raising money to fulfill their competitive goals. And I don't have a crystal ball, but I do think the Big east is really well positioned to try to manage some of these challenges going forward.

B (5:49)

How do you think it makes your job different than some of the other conferences though? Like the teams that we just mentioned? You know, there are a lot of great basketball schools in the country who are either equally more so or partially known for their football program. The schools that Alan just mentioned, we could do trivia with our audience about whether or not they have a football team. Georgetown, St. John's Seton Hall. These are basketball schools. How does that make your job any different than someone else in another conference?

E (6:19)

Well, I do think from what I hear, the four big football conferences spend a lot of time on football. I mean that really is, you know, from everything I hear, everything I know, I know the guys that run those leagues, they spend a lot of time on that sport, on their media contracts for that sport, on the College Football Playoff, which is, you know, their post season for their level. And so we're not in those rooms, you know, and so we can sort of focus more on basketball. You know, I think we do have things that they don't have to your earlier point, I mean, being in a part of the country where college football isn't quite as big as it might be in the Midwest or in the southeastern part of the country, I do kind of think I grew up in New Jersey, my buddy here, my Jersey guy, you know, and I kind of always have thought of it as a, as a pro football, pro basketball, college basketball, and then mix in, you know, baseball, you know, ice hockey and all the rest. But I, you know, I never sort of thought, thought of it as most of all college football. And there are parts of the country where that's really the case. So we tech try to take advantage of that. We being in the big cities, I mean, having teams in Philadelphia, New York, Washington, pretty close to Boston, you know, is a big deal for us. Our Midwest schools are all in large markets that's appealing to television. And I, you know, I can tell you that every one of our schools has, you know, really rabid fan bases. They, you know, they care deeply about continuing to invest in the sport. So again, I, you know, we sort of think about different things than the football guys think about. I mean, we line up with them come tournament time, you know, we overlap and so on, and we have common interests with them in some ways and we deal with them in a number of ways. But I, you know, but I think we're kind of standing alone, quite honestly. We're kind of the classic tweener.

C (8:08)

Yeah, it is crazy that this is the one little area of the country that just doesn't throw everything at college football. Syracuse tried to kind of get something going here in the Tri State area. They were actually on our air for a little while. Didn't gain any traction. The Big Ten took Rutgers as kind of like the New York team and as a Jersey guy, to see that they'll show the Empire State building when Rutgers plays. Like, dude, it's an hour away. It's gotta, it's ridiculous. And then of all places for Tim Tebow to go is with the Jets. So like with the one area where like we don't get this whole Tim Tebow thing, it's kind of strange how that works out. Val Ackerman, commissioner of the Big east, is with us here on Don Han. And Rosenberg, your other claim to fame, in the infancy of the WNBA, you were the president. When you look back now, 30 years later, did you ever think that it would get to be where it is today?

E (8:57)

Well, you know, we, we, that was the dream. The dream was that it would be, you know, our mantra early on, that it would be the fifth major league. You know, we kind of looked at the NBA, most of all, the big brother, and then looked at, you know, football, baseball and hockey and said, okay for all the team. And then we knew there was sort of golf and tennis, but we looked at the team sports and really felt like we could be number five, maybe higher than that at some point. So that was really the dream. There was a sense that it was going to be a marathon and not a sprint. And in fact, in the, you know, early years, we kept reminding ourselves that there were, there were many attempts to start women's pro basketball in this country and they never worked. Like there's a graveyard out there with the tombstones of failed women's pro basketball leagues. And the fact that we had the NBA behind it. We played in the summer. They were very deliberate to play in the summer, to get better television, to get away from the NBA shadow, to get away from the college basketball shadow was an important strategic pillar of the league that we thought would pay off and create sustainability. And then we were just sort of hoping that the league at some point would sell itself. The NBA threw a lot of marketing in early, but we said, this has got to sell itself. Fans have got to like these players, they've got to like these teams, these rivalries, and we've got to have that interest level. And we had it early on. There was a core fan base that was really, you know, very much into Cheryl Swoopes and Cynthia Cooper and Lisa Leslie and all the rest. And then, you know, now we've got this whole new group of young players that have really just captured the imagination, I think, of sports fans at all levels. I mean, I get guys who I'm sure never watched a women's basketball game, you know, two years ago, asking me about Caitlin Clark and so, and Paige Beckers, you know, who played in our league and is now a hotshot, soon to be second year player in the wnba. So to see all that happening is great. I think society has helped us a bit because people are more open to women as role models in sports. I don't think that was sort of widespread when we were starting the league, but we were determined anyway to do it. David Stern, I want to give him all the credit in the world. He really understood that women were going to be important to the future of the game of basketball. And then it just sort of took off from there.

A (11:06)

What was it going to take? I mean, I covered that the league at the very beginning, as a very young reporter. And it was something that I was fascinated by, to see the crowds that would go to the Garden to see what it was like when the Liberty went out to L. A. And it felt like a really big game. Some of those finals, some of those games. That Houston team was just so loaded and so talented. But like you said, it was still waiting to take that next step. Was it going to be drawing people in, or was it going to be the investment that was going to be put into the league from sponsors and networks that needed to bring it to a bigger audience? What had to happen? And because it feels like both has happened in the last couple of years.

E (11:46)

Well, both had to happen. I mean, you needed the investment from the NBA, which was putting up staff and capital and linking the WNBA and the players to NBA events and programs just to kind of give it a lift. And look, they called the league. We called the league wnba.

A (12:03)

Yeah.

B (12:04)

Which was smart.

E (12:05)

We could have called it the women's Pro Basketball league, You know, something unrelated. But that was one of the easier decisions is we got to connect it. We got to get the goodwill from the, you know, from the brother league. So it was about investment. It's been sustained investment. I've been gone for a while now, but I know the league is still, you know, putting into that. And then again, it was really, how do you get the fans to take interest in these. In these players? And, you know, the female fan base was different. It wasn't like, you know, the kind of guys you guys, you know, would relate to in terms of male sports fans, they were sort of interested more in the stories, less about the statistics. They needed to warm up to the rivalries and then figuring out how to nurture that element of their interest, but at the same time creating a good enough product that the, you know, that the male sports fan would say, hey, wait a minute, this is worth my time. This is really good basketball. They don't dunk. Okay, we got that. But still, it's a really, really high level of play. But I'll tell you, I want to support that.

A (12:59)

And what changed to me, I think where you are now, college basketball, the feeder that came in because it felt like the women's college game went to another level. And then it's like, these players are now going to the W. So now you can follow those players into the summer and see them play. You know, whether it was Caitlin Clark, whether it was Paige, obviously, there's several other names as well. Like, I do think it Was the college game getting to a point where the, the women's Final Four was getting some serious ratings? You had to get some of those corporate sponsors to say, we're going to follow these players because look at the following they have into that league and invest in it there. That, that to me was the linchpin. I think that's what really set this thing off the last couple of years. Would you agree?

E (13:41)

Yes. And I think you're spot on because sponsors follow fans and they think there's fan interest. And if they think those fans line up with their customer base, you know, that's the, that's the linkage right there. And you know, to your earlier point, you know, I worked on the first two bargaining agreements and, you know, we, we didn't really think early entry was going to be appropriate for the wnba. I mean, that's obviously a hallmark now on the men's side and has been for a long time and was collectively bargained that way. Why? Because, you know, first round draft picks can make a lot of money. So the sooner those guys get going, they can get through their first contract more quickly if they get an earlier start.

A (14:16)

So that's to be clear, the, in the women's game, early entry, you had to go four years. You had to be four years.

E (14:20)

Minimum age of 22.

A (14:21)

Okay. Minimum age. Right.

E (14:22)

Which lines up about, you know, the

A (14:24)

fourth year or fourth year. Right.

E (14:25)

So if you red shirt a year, you don't play, you could be 22, have a year of eligibility left, but you could still be eligible a little bit younger for an international player. So you're absolutely right. What that meant is that these players could stay in college, they could be stars, they could be on television.

A (14:38)

Yeah.

E (14:39)

And their name recognition by the time they came into the pros, very, very high.

A (14:43)

Angel Reese was a superstar on social media before she even got to those now as well. Another great example, right?

E (14:49)

Yep, exactly.

C (14:51)

So any, any thoughts on what they're going through at the bargaining table?

E (14:55)

They're probably not sleeping very much. Would be one prediction. So I, you know, I don't have the latest and greatest on this. It sounds like they're hard at work making a deal. I' sure they'll come up with something that's fair all the way around. That's how it has to happen. But I'm really excited about the season. Not only is there a WNBA season, but the FIBA Women's World Championship, AKA World cup is actually being played later this summer as well in Germany. And they're going to have A lot of these young players that we talked about are going to be in the national team mix for the very first time. So think Paige Beckers, Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, now representing our country.

A (15:33)

That's a super.

E (15:34)

For the very first time, you know, linked up with the likes of Asia Wilson, you know, Brianna Stewart, etc.

B (15:39)

That's pretty cool.

E (15:40)

You guys gotta, you know, start focusing on that because that's going to be very. That's going to be great, too.

A (15:44)

There's no question if we can get the focus back to the tournament that we have the semifinals tonight, because from a local perspective, what St. John's has become again, with Rick Pitino there, with obviously a lot of corporate help on that end as well. But I know it's. When you're the commissioner, you're looking at the whole league and everybody being a good program, but does it. Does it add anything that St. John's in this market has become once again a classic team that, you know, there was always a time where there were three basketball there, two basketball teams and all that stuff. St. John's always factored in, in the old days, when it came to the basketball mindset in the city, that's back again. Does that make a big deal? Do you notice that with the Big East, 100%.

E (16:25)

I mean, you know, I love all of my schools, you know, don't get me wrong. And we want everybody to do well, but particularly because I live here in New York and I'm dialed into the, you know, the New York landscape here and the New York sports scene. To have St. John sort of back in this way is great for them most of all. And they're very grateful to Coach Pitino for what he's done to bring people back into the building. I mean, I've been to St. John's game this year. They're filling the building. They're all in red. They've actually done very few games at Carneseca this year because they can sell Madison Square Garden. That wasn't the way it was. That wasn't the case.

A (17:02)

No, it wasn't.

E (17:02)

Four or five years ago. And so that's why they did so many games at Carneseca, because, you know, that was all they could do. And so now we've got the fan base back. And I really. My sense. My husband grew up in Brooklyn. He didn't go to St. John's he went to another school here in New York. But he, you know, he loves the Johnnies. You know, he just likes to see them do well. And that's what I think they do to this city. They just kind of give it a sense of pride. And there's a sports fan here that will come out and support the Big east tournament, even though they didn't go to one of our schools. And if St. John's does well, it just sort of energizes you, all the writers, you know, the fans, the local community, etc. So for us, it's been really fun to see. I want to, you know, commend the president, Father Shanley. He's currently our board chair. AD Ed Cull. Great guy. The whole team there. It's been a big lift to get it to where it is. And of course, you know, give all the credit to Coach Pitino for bringing it back.

C (17:58)

And they're, you know, UConn again on both sides. Right?

A (18:02)

Talk about a juggernaut.

C (18:03)

That is UConn and where they were. And you just look at, you know, during the time that you've been involved in the 30 years that I've been in, you know, sports radio, to see them go from where they started to now just a consistent, dominant, unbelievable basketball program, both the men and women, we

E (18:20)

love having them back. I mean, that was something that I worked on when the new Big east came into being in 2013. So 13 years ago, you had seven schools pull out from the old league. Butler, Creighton, Xavier joined to make it 10. UConn was not one of the seven. They stayed back in what became the American, and they were, I think, very intent on figuring out their football future. And new Big east was not football anything. So they sort of needed some time to sort of figure it out. And then in 2020, you know, we began quietly to have. Really, 2019, began to have conversations with David Benedict and myself about, okay, you know, what do you think? And I think at that point, they said, you know, our men's basketball program isn't where it needs to be. The rivalries aren't really there in terms of the teams that we're playing against in the American. With all respect to the American, it just wasn't lined up geographically with UConn. And so, you know, fast forward, here they are. And I. It's been win, win in every way. I mean, they've done so much for the league. Their women's basketball program is sort of second to none in my. And I, you know, I think even Coach Hurley would admit that and David, that coming back to the Big east, you know, there's some things that they don't have. They're not in a power conference, etc. In terms of football, but I think they would admit that, you know, it has done a world of good in terms of re. Energizing their men's basketball program. Certainly bringing the fan base back.

A (19:42)

There's no question. And again, as we talk about A basketball conference, UConn, yes, they have football, we certainly know that. But that you say UConn, you think one sport, like everybody, and it's men's and women's, obviously, they have both been juggernauts. They have been a standard bearing kind of program, and it just fits. And that's what you love about it. And again, that's what makes this what. What the Big east has become again, even with some new schools still involved. When you see a semifinal like tonight, it's impossible to not have nostalgia. It's impossible to not feel like, yeah, that's. This is what I remember. And because of the landscape of college sports and how many, you know, we're looking at the Big east and you've got, like, UCLA playing in a. In a semifinal, you're going, wait a minute, they're in the Big Ten. That's what I think. What I love about the Big east is that you still look at it and think that's what college sports is about. The tradition, the standard, and the fact that it will be at some point. 50 years of having that tournament at Madison Square Garden is exactly what you want about college sports. Tradition is what it's always been about.

E (20:43)

Yeah. And we're really respectful of that. You know, in our league, I mean, we talk about it all the time and we feel blessed because the Big east was, you know, we sort of went through 13 years ago, 20 years ago, what the PAC 12, you know, now, you know, went through, and now they're trying to bring it back. I was actually on a panel earlier today with Theresa Gould, who's the commissioner of the new Pac, and we were exchanging notes about what they're going through. Bring that league back. Amazing tradition. 100-year-old league.

F (21:10)

Yeah.

E (21:10)

You know, gone.

A (21:11)

Right. Overnight.

E (21:12)

Overnight, you know, his team started bailing. And then we went through that in the Big East. So, you know, it sort of proves that, you know, you can rise up out of the ashes. And I think that's what the Big east was able to do. And your point? It really has been on the back of the tradition, the rivalries, the geography, and again, this commitment to really make basketball first.

C (21:30)

Val, thank you so much for this. Really appreciate you coming by.

B (21:33)

It was great.

C (21:33)

To reconnect again.

E (21:34)

Thank you so much.

C (21:34)

It's been too long. Val Ackerman, Commissioner of the Big east and you know what? What better way to end the segment with a tournament update brought to you by Schweppes. St. John's and Seton hall square off in the first Big E semifinal of Addison Square Garden at 5:30. That'll be followed by Georgetown against UConn. That was the tournament update presented by Schweppes. Schweppes delivers above the rim refreshment. Feel the madness and refresh your game with a Schweppe Seltzer or Schweppes Ginger Ale. Walter Berry's gonna join us next. A little later on Charles Smith got a big show. We'll get into the wbc. We'll get into some Geno Smith. We've got fraud alert Friday. We've got E and N. We got a full vehicle taking up until 7 o'.

E (22:13)

Clock.

C (22:13)

We're here at the Irish exit, Moynihan hall, right here in the heart of New York City. Donna Roseburg Just getting started here on

D (22:20)

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A (23:54)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

B (23:57)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

A (23:59)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

C (24:07)

Don Han and Rosenberg's Big east, live, broadcast from the Irish exit of Moynihan Train hall, is brought to you by Sam Adams, Sun Cruiser and Schweppes. Schweppes delivers above the rim refreshment. Feel the madness and refresh your game with Schweppes Seltzer and Schweppes ginger ale. And again, Sun Cruisers vodka iced tea. It's always great to be here. Moynihan hall, it's that time of year. It's the Big east. And it's really special tonight with the original four back at it. First up at 5:30, St. John's and Seton Hall. That'll be followed by UConn taking on Georgetown. And you can't have a special about the Big east without welcoming in oral friend Walter Berry. Don on a Rosenberg. How are you? Let's get your headset on.

A (24:51)

Truth.

C (24:51)

Well, you forgot how it worked now. Welcome.

G (24:57)

You can't never forget this.

C (24:59)

No, no, no, no. They all want to hear you. It's been the theme of the show so far. Just how special to get these four.

G (25:06)

Okay.

C (25:06)

In the quarterfinals like this?

G (25:08)

Yes, very special.

C (25:10)

And St. John's Seton hall, too. So, I mean, how stirred up do you get, you know, coming back to the garden, seeing St. John's on top of the world again. What is, what does it do for you? What memories get stirred up when you walk into this place?

G (25:23)

It goes back to when I was playing. The memories that I have for basketball, especially St. John's at the Garden. This is a special moment for the Johnny's.

A (25:35)

Does it feel like when we get old, we do this? Like it feels like yesterday? Like when you, especially when you come around here and you go in the building and all that stuff. Like, do you say to yourself, it was only like, it wasn't that long ago when this was me. Does it feel like that or does it feel like a long time ago?

G (25:51)

I don't feel like that long.

A (25:52)

No.

E (25:52)

Right.

G (25:53)

It feel like yesterday, to be honest with you, because you get that feeling when you walk in the garden. You get that feeling again. Something comes over you. Like this. Where I did my most work at in this Madison Square Garden setting, is

C (26:06)

there one particular member that stands out?

G (26:10)

When we played Georgetown, of course, and we beat them and we became number one in the country, that memory stands out.

A (26:18)

Was that the sweater game?

G (26:19)

Nah, that was a different game. A different game, different game.

A (26:22)

I always felt like those were, as we know, those were epic wars. Those were battles. Those were some of the best memories. The. The. I guess what everybody remembers of the Big east, that's all we ever talk about, are those days, those battles, those games. You know, we were just talking with the commissioner about how they. They wanted to go back to that tradition, bringing back UConn into the fold and all that stuff. Well, it felt like then that was like professional basketball. Like, that was like going to a Knicks game. Yes, that's what it felt like. Did you feel you're a college player, but yet did you feel like this is the level, this is like being a pro?

G (27:02)

I really felt like that because every NBA team, every college team back in those days had three to five guys that made it to the NBA back in those days. So that was important for the league. It ain't happening that way no more.

B (27:17)

I mean, I know we bring it up all the time, but there's a reason why, in coming to America, they made the scene a St. John's game.

A (27:24)

Yep.

B (27:25)

And they could have obviously picked to make that anyone, but it literally, at that time in 1986, when they're putting that movie together, that's how big, Big east basketball, St. John's basketball was in New York City. It's not surprising. It is really cool, though, to look up and see some of these teams, and obviously, Georgetown being here is a surprise people weren't expecting. I was planning on maybe taking Ballard to the tournament tonight because he's a Villanova guy. Not so much. And it is sort of interesting that when you. How do you think of Villanova? Like, do you think of Villanova truly in the old school version of the Big East? Moore. Or the run they've been on the last 15 years? Because they've been a true juggernaut. The entire Jay Wright era was such an incredible run for Villanova. Which era do you define Villanova in more?

G (28:12)

Of course the all era. Of course, they won the championship. They. We was all in the Final Four. They ended up winning it, and that was big for Villanova, and that era was special.

A (28:23)

Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. I need to know this. How'd they win, though? How'd they win that? You had three Big east teams in the Final Four. If you would have told me. The three teams that were in it was Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova. Right. And it was. Was Memphis State was the fourth, right?

G (28:36)

Memphis, yes.

A (28:37)

If you were going to tell me there's three biggest teams going, which team do you think is not going to win it? Villanova would have been that team, right?

G (28:43)

Yes.

A (28:44)

How did they do it?

G (28:45)

Look, they had a great team and they played together and they had, you know, and there's a little bit of God involved in this also.

A (28:53)

Oh, of course. No, it felt like it because they couldn't miss.

G (28:58)

They couldn't miss and, you know, and everything just went their way.

A (29:02)

Yeah.

G (29:03)

And they played Georgetown a lot better than we did in them days. Villanova and in Georgetown, Villanova was a better team.

A (29:11)

Really, year round, I believe they knew what to do. And Patrick was, he was goaltending left and right in those games and they were just taking the two. They didn't care. Getting goaltender to take the two points. You played Georgetown in the semi, right? You played him in the Final Four that year?

G (29:23)

Yeah. Final Four.

A (29:24)

Yeah. That must have been again, just experience wise, like we've seen these guys, like, this is our league and we're all here in the Final Four. Like that. That's again, that's when you know you've made it as a conference, Right. That's when you know, not only as a program, but when you look around, it's like, oh, it's all of us. Was there any type of pride in the Big East? Like, did you feel that way at all, thinking, you know, you got the acc, you got the sec, the Big Ten. No, no. The Big east is running this thing right now.

G (29:50)

The Big east, we were running it back in old days and we had better players, I believe, than all the other conferences back in old days. And that's what made the Biggie special.

B (30:01)

How much of a beast was Ed Pinckney to go up against?

G (30:06)

Ed Pinckney was a beast. Everybody talked about Patrick Hewing, but you had to look around. Ed Pinckney was coming.

B (30:13)

I just. It's so funny, right Shoulders, that dude, right?

A (30:16)

Yeah, he's just out here.

B (30:17)

It's interesting too because he's, he's one of those guys who goes down as such an all time college player. But for me watching him as a pro, you know, I didn't think that much of Ed Pinckney. And then I went back and did the research on how much of a beast that guy was at Villanova. It's just really, really interesting how the game doesn't always translate the same way, but he was a hell of a college player.

G (30:34)

Oh, yeah. Ed Pinckney was great man. And that's one of my good friends. And he was just a great player in college. He got to the NBA and he kind of leveled out, but he still had a great career in the NBA. He still did what he's supposed to do.

A (30:49)

All right, so you're. You were a big star in New York as a college player. That opens doors. You gotta have a story or two about those days being. Being in New York, playing games at the Garden, being celebrated for the program. You were Big east championship player of the year. There's gotta be a couple of stories about, like, how I'm just a college player, but all of a sudden, doors were opening and I was going through them.

G (31:12)

I tell you one story that I had, and it was when they announced the Player of the Year award. And I was sitting home. Cause nobody didn't call me or brief me, like, you gonna be the college player of the year? Nobody. So I was telling my people, my family, they not gonna pick me. It ain't gonna be me. And when they said Walter Berry, I froze for, like, 10 minutes. I couldn't move out of the chair I was sitting in. You were home? I was home.

A (31:42)

Where was the ceremony?

G (31:43)

It was. They announced it at halftime of the game.

A (31:46)

Oh, it was during the game.

G (31:47)

Yes. Halftime of one of the games. And I couldn't believe it when they said Walter Berry. I just froze. I stayed in that chair for 10 minutes.

C (31:56)

Wow.

G (31:57)

My mother was like, are you all right? I said, no. I said, I can't believe this. I started getting phone calls.

A (32:05)

Oh, yeah.

G (32:05)

I'm gonna tell you a story. I'm sitting home. Michael Bivens is one of my good friends from New Edition.

A (32:11)

Yeah.

G (32:11)

I get a call from him right then and there. Once they announce the. To congratulate me. I. I was stunned. I. I didn't know what to say.

C (32:20)

Wow.

A (32:21)

That you got. When did you get like that? Was it a plaque or a trophy? When. When did you get that?

G (32:25)

Oh, a trophy.

A (32:26)

You got a trophy?

G (32:27)

Yeah, I got it. It got the five figurines around it. And I got that shortly after a month. I had to go to la, to the Friars Club, to. To do everything with that trophy.

A (32:37)

They made you earn it up.

G (32:38)

Yes.

B (32:39)

How did you know Michael Bivens? We good friends from before college?

G (32:44)

No, right before college. I'm gonna tell you how we met. We was going in there to play the Boston the Boston team. The college team.

A (32:52)

Bc.

G (32:52)

Bc.

A (32:53)

Yep.

G (32:54)

And he was standing outside when we was walking in. He said, I want to come in a game, but I don't have a ticket. I said, grab my bag and you with us now. He wasn't even Michael Bivens from New Edition at the time.

A (33:06)

He was just like, kid from Boston.

G (33:08)

Yeah, kid from Boston. Just wanted to come in the game. And he came in with us. I told the people in Boston to see them. Somewhere they sat him, and he enjoyed the game. And the next thing I knew, the last time I saw Michael Bivis, he was up on stage performing, and I was like, that's a guy. Couldn't believe it.

B (33:26)

Wow. That's crazy.

C (33:26)

That is crazy. That's an amazing story. So, so now you're born in New York, you play at St. John's and then you're a Portland trailblazer.

G (33:36)

Yeah.

C (33:37)

And then later that year, you're in San Antonio. Was that culture shock to go from, you know, the big city and the attention, even though it was the NBA, you know, it's, it's a different market, different world, far away from home.

G (33:48)

It was a culture shock to me because I didn't like Portland, and I don't think Portland liked me, you know, and the coach was like, I don't play rookie. So guess what? You gonna sit next to me? There's a bench, and I'm, I'm looking like I know I can play in this game.

A (34:04)

Who is the coach? This is, this is late 80s.

G (34:08)

Mike.

A (34:08)

Mike Schuler.

G (34:09)

Mike Schuler.

A (34:10)

Oh, I don't play rookies.

G (34:11)

Yeah, he didn't play rookies back.

A (34:13)

Oh, boy.

G (34:13)

And I wanted to play.

A (34:16)

And you're like, why'd you draft me?

G (34:17)

Right. That's what I told him. And I went to management and said, hey, why don't you trade me? I'm just not happy here with Portland with coach with nothing. And they finally ended up, up transferred me to San Antonio, and I got in the starting lineup within after the first two games.

A (34:34)

Now, who was, who was the coach there? Larry Brown.

G (34:37)

Bob Weiss.

A (34:37)

Bob Weiss was the coach. So who. So, all right, so this is pre Popovich and all that stuff, right? Yeah. This is before that.

G (34:44)

Yes.

A (34:45)

Yeah. Well, what, what I, I, we had you on last year, the stories you had about playing in Greece, though, because that's. You really became a legend there.

G (34:53)

Listen, once I got the grease, I left the NBA. I had contract problems. A lot of people don't understand. My last team was the Houston Rockets, and they wouldn't pay me the money that I thought I was worth. So it was a team from Europe came out of nowhere and was like, hey, a million dollars. What you gonna do? Go take it where I sign at?

A (35:14)

Yeah, exactly.

G (35:16)

You know? And I took the money and went. And.

A (35:20)

And you loved it.

G (35:21)

I loved it. My journey started. I was. They used to call me the Michael Jordan of Europe because I was putting 40s and 50s up over there. And along with it was 15, 16 rebounds a game, five block shots. I was doing that kind of work down there.

A (35:38)

Yeah. And. And they loved it that you became a legend. I saw you. Did you have some Mike Tyson stories?

G (35:44)

Yes.

A (35:45)

Oh, see, this is.

B (35:45)

Here we go.

A (35:47)

I was told the truth. Got stories. Right. So I'm finding all of them, but there's Mike. So. So what's. What's your best Mike Tyson story?

G (35:53)

Okay, I'm gonna give you the first one. When I first met him, I was at a club in New York called a Red Parrot. I was dressed nice, and I had on a Versace suit. No, I'm gonna take that back. Louis Vuitton suit.

B (36:07)

Wow.

G (36:08)

And I'll set you back. I'm standing there, trying to go in. I'm at the door.

A (36:13)

How old are you?

G (36:14)

I'm probably like. I was. I was just coming to St. John.

A (36:16)

Oh, okay.

G (36:17)

Like, my first year at St. John's okay, okay. Mike Tyson taps me on the back. I look at him, I'm thinking, this dude gonna rob me. That's how I was looking, because he was. He wasn't in the box. He was boxing, but he wasn't nowhere near, you know who.

B (36:33)

We know what year was your freshman year?

G (36:36)

That was. Was 1985.

B (36:38)

Oh, yeah. This is very early.

A (36:40)

Yeah.

B (36:41)

He's still.

A (36:41)

Peak skill. Right. That way he was at.

B (36:43)

No, no, but he.

C (36:44)

Catskill cat skill.

B (36:45)

This is what. He's still.

C (36:46)

This still.

B (36:46)

He's still boxing tomato cans at this point.

G (36:48)

That's right.

B (36:48)

Knocking people out.

G (36:49)

That's right. And you know. And he was like, you, Walter Berry, right? I'm like, yeah. He was like, I'm gonna be the next heavyweight champion in the world. I said, you know what? I respect that. Work hard. You'll get where you want to get to. Keep working.

D (37:05)

Good luck.

B (37:06)

Good luck, little guy.

G (37:08)

So the next time I saw Mike, he was with one of my friends. Started driving for him. When he really got on point to be who he was becoming. To be.

A (37:19)

Yeah.

G (37:20)

He pulled up at my house with a convertible Rolls Royce, and my mother looked out the window and was like, because we only lived on the second floor. She was like, that looked like that. Boy that boxed. That's. That's Mike Tyson. And he, he got Tom with him. So we were like, they woke me up, I was in a room sleep. So my mother was like, please get me an autograph. So my mother came down, Mike signed our autograph, and I got in the car with them and we went on into the city.

A (37:47)

Oh boy.

G (37:47)

And after that, I'm gonna give you the story about when we was at Dapper Dance.

B (37:53)

Oh, yes, here we go.

G (37:54)

Yeah. I took out was waiting for that talking. So one night he was like, meet me at Dapper Dan. So I'm like, okay. They show up, him and Tom show up. He's waiting for a jacket that say, don't believe the hype.

B (38:07)

And this was, this was like a late night, cuz Dapper Dan would stay open all night.

G (38:10)

Two o' clock in the morning. Two o' clock in the morning. And we was talking about Mitch Green that night. And it's weird because, you know the stuff that just came up. Next thing we know, Mike was still talking about him. We look up at the front door, there go Mitch Green.

B (38:29)

Wait, wait, Walter. Are you about to tell us it's Bud Green. Are you about to tell us that you were at Dapper Dan's the night Mike Tyson fought?

G (38:35)

Yes.

B (38:36)

Green at Dapper Dance?

G (38:37)

Yes.

B (38:38)

All right, I'm listening.

A (38:41)

I'm in. I was told he has stories.

E (38:42)

All right, so.

B (38:43)

So he'd been, he'd already been talking about Mitch Green that night.

D (38:46)

That night.

G (38:47)

That night.

B (38:47)

And then you look up and you're like, wait, Mitch Green's here?

G (38:50)

Mitch Green was there. And you know the funny part about it? I was dating Mitch Green's girlfriend.

C (38:56)

Oh my.

G (38:57)

And let me tell you the funny thing about this. He told her, when I catch the guys that the guy that you're dating, I'm gonna murder him. And she told me this story. So when he showed up at Dapper Dan, I thought he was coming for me.

A (39:11)

You thought he was coming for you?

G (39:12)

Yeah. So what I did was. You know how they used to have them big old phones back in the day?

B (39:17)

Oh, yeah.

G (39:17)

I unplugged it, snatched it out the wall and wrapped it up and put the big phone in my hand. As soon as he was going to come up to me, I thought he was going to come up. You got to bash him with it. So the next thing I know, he went straight to Mike and started frisking Mike Pockets and Mike Tyson. Was like, wasn't saying nothing. And he had. Mike had about 10,000 in his pocket that night and 10,000 in his pocket. Mitch was trying to go in his pocket and his driver Tom was like, oh, sweat. He going in Mike's pocket. It's like a bell went off in Mike head. Mike pushed his hands off and was like, we could take this outside. They took it out. We all walked outside. They squared up. Mike hit him like two or three times. He was out cold, right? He was on the ground and Mike was like, let's just go. I was like, I don't want to leave my car. Mike said, we'll come back and get it. We jump in my convertible Rolls Royce. Ms. Green jumps up and knocks the mayor off the call. When we got ready to pull off and Mike was like, tom, pull back over. Got back out.

A (40:25)

Come on.

B (40:26)

That's what the story is.

G (40:27)

That's the story.

B (40:28)

That's the story.

G (40:28)

Got back out and hit him one more time. And that was it. We was way down the block.

C (40:36)

We was.

G (40:36)

Was looking back, all you hear is amalabs coming. Mitch Green never got back up.

A (40:40)

Oh, and never came for you either.

G (40:43)

No, never came for me.

C (40:44)

Apparently you still have the phone in your hand.

B (40:48)

The craziest thing is Mike had already whooped his ass in a fight, in a real fight, he'd already beaten Mitch Green, Right?

G (40:54)

That's what we were talking about because Mike never knocked the mic. Mike said, the only person I couldn't

B (40:59)

knock out, knock him out.

C (41:00)

But he beat him.

B (41:01)

He beat him bad, but he didn't knock him out.

C (41:03)

Well, until.

G (41:04)

Yeah, until the street fight.

A (41:07)

Two KOs.

C (41:08)

That is a great way to close it. I mean, have fun tonight. Thank you so much, Walter. Truth portrayed every single time. That is an amazing, amazing story. Don Hanna, Rosenberg's Big east, live broadcast from the Irish exit of Moynihan Train hall, is brought to you by Sam Adams Sun Cruiser vodka iced tea and Schweppes. Schweppes delivers above the rhythm, refreshment, feel the madness. And refresh your game with a Schweppes Seltzer or Seltzer ginger ale. Donna Rosenberg, just getting started. Charles Smith down the road as well. We'll talk a lot about the Big east, get into everything else right up until 7:00. And then it's Knicks basketball on ESPN New York.

B (41:47)

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D (44:47)

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A (45:56)

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg Podcast.

B (45:59)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

A (46:01)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

C (46:09)

Don Otto Rosenberg's Big East Live broadcast from the Irish Exit the Moynihan Train hall, is brought to you by Sam Adams Sun Cruiser Vodka Ice Tea and Schweppes Schweppes delivers above the rim refreshment. Feel the madness and refresh your game with a Schweppes Seltzer or Schweppes Ginger Ale. Wow, we've had Walter Berry on many times. We've done the Big east shows Go going back to the Michael K days for that to be in his story arsenal and not it be the first thing that would come out of it. Like if I was there that night when Tyson got into it with Mitch Blood Green, I would, I'd be just

B (46:43)

telling strangers that I'm a little upset with myself because that was so great. And I have. I have a couple of fail safes I do in interviews in general. Like if I can spot a connection in the person to Mike Tyson or Michael Jackson, I will always try to get the question of course because a. With Michael Jackson it's like such a rarity that any story's amazing and with Tyson it's not about the rarity because if you're. If you were in New York at a certain time stories are there. It's just what will the story be. And with a St. John's player on a team that was that hot in the mid-80s, I should have known. He's got to have Tyson story. But to fit.

E (47:20)

He was.

B (47:21)

Was in the car with Tyson after he knocked out Mitch Green.

D (47:25)

And.

B (47:26)

And like every detail is so clean. Like he remembers the convertible Rolls Royce.

C (47:30)

Yeah, well. And. And not just standing idly by or just happened to be there.

B (47:36)

No, he was tapping Mitch Green's girlfriend.

C (47:38)

He thought he was gonna be the guy that would get beat up.

A (47:40)

He thought he was the target. It's the best part. Charles Smith, by the way, when he comes to join us in a couple minutes at 4 o' clock hour, he's got.

B (47:47)

That's by the way.

A (47:48)

Same big shoes to fill.

G (47:49)

Yeah.

C (47:49)

Oh, big shoes.

B (47:50)

But he was around a lot too.

A (47:51)

Oh no, he's got to have. You know, he's got stores. You know, he does. That's the best part of this. When everybody. That's what I love about this one is because it's the Big east and everybody comes back. Right? That's the best thing about college sports is it's not just the current team. It's also when everybody comes back and the stories just get better and better the further away we go. And I don't mind stretching the truth either, but I have a feeling that everything he said was 100% accurate.

B (48:14)

Yeah, there was a lot of.

A (48:15)

There was nothing.

B (48:16)

The level of excitement he had to tell the story was like this is.

A (48:20)

I'm almost mad that he didn't tell us last year. We had him last year, you know,

B (48:24)

you think that the first thing like, hey, how about Walter Berry? I was the best player in college basketball. I want to know okay. By the way, I was. I was. I thought I was the target the night Mike Tyson knocked out Mitchell.

C (48:34)

One of the great New York sports stories of all time.

B (48:37)

I just. I'll Toberry though.

A (48:39)

He just. Richard of Manhattan is just. He's got him in the tractor beat now.

B (48:42)

Well. Oh, really?

A (48:43)

Richard, he's. He got him.

B (48:44)

Well, I'll tell you what he will probably tell is. Are they talking now?

A (48:47)

No, he finally got away.

B (48:49)

Oh. I wonder if Richard told him anything like that. He didn't know because, you know, Richard might have information that Walter Berry doesn't even remember from his own career.

C (48:57)

And having. Having met Richard in Manhattan last year and us talking about how he's a bit of a doppelganger for RJ Santillo and knowing that already looking at him. Him. Yeah, he is old man. RJ said, you think this is what

A (49:09)

RJ's gonna look like? Yeah.

C (49:10)

RJ now will know what he's gonna look like when he's like in his.

A (49:13)

Really think so.

B (49:15)

There's a lot. There's some other stuff in there too. But if there's a lot of rj.

A (49:19)

You think so?

B (49:19)

I think a lot.

A (49:20)

Giving rj.

B (49:21)

I think he gives rj. Oh, but so if you're better than giving other Jays.

C (49:25)

If you're in the area, jump shots. If you're in the area by Moynihan Hall Irish it's place to be. Charles Smith's gonna be coming up in a couple of minutes.

D (49:34)

Minutes.

C (49:34)

Maria Moreno is here as well. So we're going to bring Harry and. And Walter Berry still probably telling a story that might be better than the one he told us. It's like just a guy here at Moynihan hall. Like it. It. It's that crazy because you know what? It's on the table because we had him on last year. He didn't tell us the story.

B (49:51)

That was a mind blowing.

A (49:53)

Love it.

B (49:53)

I was not leave.

C (49:54)

I was not prepared for that.

A (49:55)

That's a good moment.

B (49:56)

I just want to. I want to find out at some point if I. When I see Tyson and again I'm going to ask him why. So Mitch Green intentionally just went and was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like if he started grabbing his. He was just messing with him. And then Michael's like, all right, enough. We're going outside him like, what were you doing? If you're Mitch Green, you really thought you were this time. You thought you were gonna get the win.

A (50:17)

Yeah.

B (50:18)

Or it didn't work out in the ring. But in the street I got you

C (50:20)

what I was thinking he was gonna. So he was he checking him to see if he had a weapon. Like he was gonna go after Tyler and we wanted to make sure that he didn't have a weapon on.

B (50:28)

No, I think he was kind of like jokingly trying to say like run your pockets. Like give me. That's what I think it was.

C (50:33)

Well it was a mistake.

B (50:34)

No, I did.

C (50:34)

And then the mirror made it worse.

B (50:36)

I mean have you ever seen the Tyson one man show? The one that was on hbo?

C (50:40)

Yeah.

B (50:41)

He tells a version of it that's not unlike it but that was the more realistic version about him hitting the mirror. Because I feel like the version Tyson does. Tyson adds like a lot of theatrics like Mitch Green like came back from the the dead kind of like he gives it more rose up.

C (50:56)

But that's that, that, that is a, that's a firsthand account, first hand account of one of the mic drop story to have Mike Tyson stories of all time. Get ready for rickleball madness Friday, March 20th. ESPN New York is taking over Pickleball Heaven in Medford, New York. Catch a live broadcast of dpa Tron Rothenberg starting at 6am Then stick around for our social ladder pickleball tournament. We'll crown a champion and then we get right into some college hoops. A watch party that will cap off the day. The tournament is officially sold out, but the event is open to the public. So come down, enjoy the action, be part of Rickleball Madness brought to you by Pickleball Heaven, the new standard of indoor pickleball. So we got lots to do today. Charles Smith is going to join us. Coming up next, great stories went to Pitt and obviously his time with the New York Knicks. And then we'll talk to Marie Moreno at some point because at 4:30 we got fraud Alert Friday.

B (51:50)

Of course.

C (51:51)

And I'm trying to think did we ever do Fraud Alert Friday on remote? I don't think so. I think this might be the first time we've done it. But however we got the gavel, we're sorry.

B (52:01)

Anthony, where do we do it?

D (52:02)

Beach bash.

B (52:04)

Well, beach bash.

A (52:05)

Christmas party.

F (52:05)

Christmas party.

C (52:06)

Ramota Jace, those are standards multiple times. You know what. So the answer is yes. I was just trying to like you try I'm sorry special. And it was ruined by.

E (52:15)

Sorry you found out this way.

C (52:16)

It was ruined by the reality of everything. Enn as well. Take a rattle at 7 o'. Clock. And then it's Knicks basketball. Don Ana Rosenberg's Big east live broadcast from the Irish exit in Moynihan Train hall is brought to you by Sat Adams Sun Cruiser Vodka Ice Tea and Schweppes. Schweppes delivers above the rim refreshment. Feel the madness and refresh your game with a Schweppes Seltzer or Schweppes Ginger Ale.

A (52:40)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

B (52:44)

I don't want to know how the

A (52:45)

sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces TGL playoffs are here. First Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers

F (53:07)

Jupiter Lynx face off in their playoff debuts.

A (53:09)

Who will advance? Keep up its playoffs. Tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6:30pm and 9pm only on ESPN and the ESPN applied.