Hour 1: Loyalty

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg — Hour 1: Loyalty

ESPN New York | February 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode centers on the tricky subject of "loyalty" in sports, both from a fan and athlete perspective. The crew—Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg—debate national vs. team loyalties as Olympic hockey unfolds, grapple with James Harden’s bombshell comments on loyalty being “overrated” in the NBA, and examine the broader impact of superstar mercenaries in American sports. The conversation is rich with banter, some music and pop culture tangents, and plenty of sharp takes on how today’s sports landscape grapples with business realities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fan Loyalties During International Play (00:51–11:08)

• The show kicks off as the hosts discuss the challenge for fans when their favorite local players compete for rival countries in international competitions (e.g., NHL players in the Olympics).
• Don recounts his conflicted allegiance as a New Jersey Devils fan during the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics:

  “Because it becomes a Ranger victory because Mike Richter wins the gold medal... they use it as, ‘our goaltender’s better than your goaltender.’” (02:45)

• Peter counters that, for him, rooting for Team USA comes before rooting for any individual NHL player, regardless of his club loyalty.
• Rosenberg brings nuance, explaining how personal connection to the sport can override nationalism:

  “It depends on what level of interest you have in that international sport… in the World Cup, I would never root against Team USA. In hockey, I have no problem rooting for Sid the Kid over Team USA.” (07:21)

• The guys agree this tension is a core part of sports fandom—throw in gambling, and it only grows more complicated, as the crew jokes about betting against their own favorite players “for the money” (09:05).

2. James Harden & The State of "Loyalty" in the NBA (11:08–18:59)

• Transitioning from fan dilemmas to the players themselves, Don introduces James Harden’s recent take:

  “The whole quote, unquote loyalty thing, I think it’s overrated… It’s a business at the end of the day… Players should do what’s best for them, and front office does what’s best for them.” (12:17, Harden audio)

• Don and Peter come out swinging:
  • “All these players do it in all sports, and it makes me sick…You’ve got generational wealth, man. Your family’s fine. When an NBA player makes a decision for money, it’s largely based on greed.” (13:37, Don)
  • “Dude, you are richer than God… It’s the lack of awareness to know that the fans shell out money to see you and you’re talking about doing what’s right for your family.” (15:21, Rosenberg)
• Peter unpacks the bigger problem—Harden is a “mercenary,” always about “bank building” and not team building:

  “He plays for him... That’s the dangerous thing about bringing him in—he’s always about him.” (16:22)

• The hosts note this attitude has infected much of the NBA—business decisions now drive everything from tanking to load management, leaving fans frustrated.

3. Business Over Competition: Regular Season “Irrelevancy” (18:59–23:54)

• The discussion shifts to how business has hollowed out competition:

  “The regular season doesn’t matter…the only time the business matters is from April on.” (20:32, Peter)

• Don and Peter contrast the NBA’s culture with the NHL, where load management is largely absent, and teams aren't incentivized to tank:

  “There’s never any load management in the NHL. They got the same schedule as the NBA... you do see guys at the end of the season maybe are healthy scratches…. But I don't see the tanking.” (22:08, Don)

• The notorious case of the Pittsburgh Penguins tanking for Mario Lemieux in 1984 is cited as a rare exception.

4. Rock Song Debate & Sports Culture Tangents (32:24–42:11)

• A lighter segment ensues, sparking debate over what counts as a “rock” song, referencing the hosts’ top 5 lists:
  • Is “God Only Knows” by the Beach Boys a rock song?

  “It’s folk rock, it’s pop rock. That’s what it is. All rock.” (36:21, Don)

  • Rosenberg critiques Don’s broad definition and questions whether some tracks belong more to folk or pop than rock.
  • The group reflect on music’s genre fluidity, with Rosenberg noting:

  “With Don’s definition, we absolutely should have considered hip hop records as well… Bridge Over Troubled Water, I would say is maybe less rock…than Sucker MCs by Run DMC.” (37:07)

• The conversation shows parallels between fan identity in music and sports—both are susceptible to “loyalty” debates.

5. NBA Schedule Criticisms & Player Sympathy (41:05–46:44)

• Peter vents about the repetitive rhetoric around the NBA's “grueling” schedule:

  “What I can’t stand about this league: it’s the only league where the players get sympathy for how difficult and how long the season is…The NFL’s adding games—that’s the most arduous season of any of the four major sports!” (41:13)

• Comparing past and present, the crew scoff at claims today’s NBA is somehow tougher due to pace or athleticism—modern recovery resources far outstrip those of prior generations.
  • “Look at the sneakers on their feet. Some of the arenas they played in… You didn’t have three massage therapists, five trainers, cryotherapy…” (43:04, Peter)
• Don points out load management and schedule complaints are far less common in the NHL, even as the game has become faster (46:29).

6. Fixing the NBA's "Loyalty" and Competition Problems (46:47–end)

• As the episode wraps, the hosts argue that commissioner Adam Silver faces an existential problem:

  “No one wants to talk about it… the showcase of the sport’s not even watchable… They’ve got a problem and they just never want to acknowledge it.” (47:14, Peter)

• The importance of restoring meaningful competition to the NBA regular season is underscored, especially with All-Star Weekend looming.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Fan Loyalty Conflicts:

  • “I was really disappointed the Team USA lost in Vancouver, but a part of him… Crosby, baby, scores the golden goal.” (05:22, Don about Rosenberg)
  • “You want to see a guy do well, but you don’t want to see your country lose.” (07:01, Peter)

• On James Harden & "Business Decisions"

  • “When an NBA player makes a decision for money, it’s largely based on greed. Now, the great thing about this country and capitalism is there’s nothing wrong with greed. Greed is good… but please don’t confuse the two.” (13:54, Don)
  • “He’s a mercenary to the truest sense of the word… What you’re doing is called bank building, right? Different. They’re not the same thing.” (17:00, Peter)

• On NBA vs. NHL Attitude:

  • “There’s never any load management in the NHL… they play hard all the time.” (22:08, Don)
  • “The regular season doesn’t matter [in the NBA] …the only time the business matters is from April on.” (20:32, Peter)

• Music Segment and Cultural Parallels:

  • “With Don’s definition, we absolutely should have considered hip hop records as well… Bridge Over Troubled Water, I would say is maybe less rock…than Sucker MCs by Run DMC.” (37:07, Rosenberg)

• On Modern NBA Hardship Claims:

  • “You didn’t have three massage therapists, five trainers… What they have at their disposal for recovery is the highest level of technology that you can find. So I don't want to hear it…” (43:04, Peter)
  • “How do they do it in the NHL? Play 82 games, 3 games in 4 [nights]…” (46:16, Don)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Olympic Hockey & Fan Loyalties — 00:51–11:08
• James Harden’s Loyalty Comments & Reaction — 12:17–18:59
• NBA “Business Decisions” and Fan Frustration — 18:59–23:54
• Rock Song Debate & Music Sidetrack — 32:24–42:11
• NBA Schedule & Player Sympathy — 41:05–46:44
• NBA's Identity Crisis — 46:47–end

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Episode Tone

The banter is combative but playful, deeply passionate about both sports and music, and runs on a blend of classic New York sports radio energy (gruff, opinionated), with regular detours into side-conversations and quick-witted humor.

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For Listeners New and Old

Even if you missed the episode, this hour delivers quintessential DHR: sports loyalty anxiety, the cold reality of athlete “business decisions,” an appreciation of generational differences, and the debate over what fandom should feel like in an era where, for many, “it’s just business.”

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Want more fierce debates about sports, music, and modern fandom? Tune in weekdays, 3–7PM on ESPN New York or catch the show wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

From 30 for 30 podcasts. Did you say someone got shot? Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down.

[Rosenberg]

The key to this case, It's Brian.

[Peter]

An hour before he died, he was.

[Rosenberg]

On the phone arguing with somebody.

[Don Hahn]

This might be a hit.

[Peter]

You want the truth? They just want a conviction.

[Anthony]

Being placed under arrest.

[Don Hahn]

We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now.

[Peter]

Don.

[Don Hahn]

She fell in love with the sex. Don.

[Peter]

Sauce was everywhere.

[Rosenberg]

And Rosenberg, if you want to stay up, he's got the energy that matters.

[Don Hahn]

This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Caller Mo]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Podcast Announcer]

ESPN New York and streaming live on.

[Don Hahn]

YouTube 300 one of the big city. Don Han and Rosenberg, full vehicle until 7 o' clock tonight. Three to seven. Four full hours until Dan Grassa at seven. No Knicks, no Nets, because the NBA, as far as the locals are concerned, All Star weekends already have it. There's three games tonight, but not involving any of the locals. And of course, hockey's in the Olympic break, although we'll be keeping an eye at 310. USA and Latvia. Canada won earlier, shutting out Finland.

[Peter]

Boo. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Weird.

[Peter]

Like the. Who was. Oh, the Islanders put out a. A post because Bo Horvat scored.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, he did.

[Peter]

And it was like, Bo Horvat opens the scoring for the Canadiens, and you're just like, no. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So see, that's. That's the strange bedfellows. It really is, because I remember. What was it? I guess it was O2. Right in Salt Lake. USA, Canada, gold medal. I'm a Devil fan because 2002, far from. I was working here, believe it or not, but I wasn't working with the Rangers or anything. So. Unabashed Devil fan. My goalie is Canada's goalie.

[Peter]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

My sworn enemy, the Rangers goaltender, Mike Richter. Team usa.

[Peter]

Well, who you're rooting for.

[Don Hahn]

It was hard, man.

[Peter]

Come on.

[Don Hahn]

What do you mean, come on? It's ingrained in your DNA. You're a Devil fan. Martin Brodeur is the goaltender.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I'm going to now root for Mike Richter. The Ranger.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

But no. Here's the problem with that. No, no, I understand what you're saying.

[Peter]

This doesn't make sense.

[Don Hahn]

No, no.

[Peter]

But here's.

[Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

Can you hear me out?

[Peter]

I'm trying to.

[Don Hahn]

Because it becomes a Ranger victory because Mike Richter wins the gold medal.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Mike Richter is the Rangers goaltender. The Rangers benefit from that. The Rangers use that as, hey, our goaltender won a gold medal. Our goaltender's better than your goaltender. Because in the biggest spot in the world on the grand stage beat you like that's still value to the Rangers, Right?

[Peter]

Put it out there. I covered the 2002 Rangers. They were not going to do anything.

[Don Hahn]

No, I know. And you know what? 2002 devils, you know, a year before they would win a Cup.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Another Cup.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

They were bounced in the first round.

[Peter]

I just don't understand it. It's. Why is it about the player? But when the player gets traded, you don't care what, like if. So again, like that. That's the whole thinking that a players traded. Now I'm supposed to. I like that guy. Now I got to roof his team. He's playing for a different team that you're part of. You are an American. You team. You root for Team usa. And so when the Olympics start, that's what you focus on.

[Don Hahn]

But, but, but the reason you're not feeling this well, you're right.

[Peter]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

All right. You're gonna win the argument because I'm an American, I root for America.

[Peter]

Well, apparently not.

[Don Hahn]

No, but I didn't say. I didn't.

[Peter]

You said it was.

[Don Hahn]

I just made it was.

[Rosenberg]

It was.

[Don Hahn]

Because this is not. Well, I love Martin Brodor, but then when he became a Blue, I didn't care anymore.

[Peter]

So when you found out that. That. What was it a looney or a toonie that was put into the. Did you. Did you. Did little part of you like. Or did you get mad?

[Don Hahn]

No, I.

[Peter]

That. That. I'll tell you what. That set me off.

[Don Hahn]

I know, but I saw that.

[Peter]

I remember that story. And I was like, what the.

[Don Hahn]

Like, at least hear me out, all right? I'm not saying every player like, you know, if Tommy Abilene's on the Canadiens, that's going to be really hard for me. We're talking about the devil, basically. Mr. Devil, Mark Hamburg.

[Peter]

It really was a strange pull, Tom.

[Don Hahn]

Tommy Abilene, Right? Yes. But hear me out, Peter, because you have a dog in the fight here too, because you had, you know, Sid the kid scoring the golden goal.

[Rosenberg]

You know, I agree with you.

[Don Hahn]

You know, and. And Sidney Crosby's not just some penguin to a certain generation. He is the penguin.

[Peter]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

There's Mario and then there's Sid. All right? So we're not just talking about some arbitrary penguin. We're talking about Sidney Crosby.

[Peter]

I need that.

[Don Hahn]

All right.

[Rosenberg]

See you at six o', clock, buddy.

[Don Hahn]

So I could understand if Peter's like. I was. I was really disappointed the Team USA lost in Vancouver, but a Part of him going, Crosby, baby, scores the golden goal.

[Rosenberg]

When Sid scored the golden goal, I was 100% on board.

[Don Hahn]

Right. So doesn't make you a bad American. It's just that, hey, you are a Penguins fan. But you meant Bo Horvat. You're an Islander guy. Yeah, but Bo Horvat's not a forever Islander. He's been an Islander for a year and a half.

[Peter]

He's really good.

[Don Hahn]

Two years. He's very good. But what if it had been Billy Smith between the pipes for Team Camp? Billy Smith who won you four friggin Stanley Cups?

[Peter]

He's not winning me the pipes.

[Don Hahn]

I am painting a picture, Peter, of what I went through in 2002. All right? I'm going to paint a picture for Alan to understand.

[Peter]

Okay?

[Don Hahn]

It's Martin Brodeur. It's not just any devil. It's the devil. All right, again, these are good.

[Peter]

These are so good.

[Don Hahn]

And it's not just any Ranger. It's Mike Richter for Team usa. Like I can get by any other player. But these are the goaltenders. All right, that makes it hard. So let's go. Let's say if there was a. If there was the Olympics, the 80, 88 Olympics allowed Americans, allowed professionals, NHL players, and Billy Smith was still playing. And he won you four Stanley Cups. He's Billy Smith.

[Peter]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

And he's the goaltender for Team Canada.

[Peter]

Well, he's Canadian, so he's not playing for me today.

[Don Hahn]

Well, good for you to be able to shut it off.

[Peter]

What? That's.

[Don Hahn]

But that's no but for you. Good for you being better than everybody else. But that's Mr. Captain America.

[Peter]

I'll call you today. All right, here we go. In Texas. When US Plays France in the next Olympics in basketball, you're going to tell me that all these San Antonio people are going to be rooting for France. Stop it. It's. You want to see a guy do well, but you don't want to see your country lose.

[Rosenberg]

It depends on what the truth of the matter is. It depends on what level of interest you have in that international sport. So, for example, it's your sport. I would. I have no problem rooting for, say, Sid the Kid over Team USA and hockey, because I don't have any. Even though it's Team usa, I don't have a great connection to Team USA hockey. That being said in reverse, I would never root against Team USA in the World Cup. It's just. It's the. My interest in the sport. It's. I think it's Situational. I mean, unless you really treat international sports as like the ultimate side of patriotism.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Rosenberg]

It's which if you do, you're kind of a looney to.

[Peter]

Well, I'm not doing this because of, you know, I'm not saying that. It's just for me, it's if a. You know what, you were on a team. You understand this stuff. He's scrimmage. My best friend's on the other team. I want to kick his ass. I want to beat him. Of course, because my best friend.

[Don Hahn]

But you are. You're not in the stands, you're not watching on tv. You're in the game.

[Peter]

But it doesn't matter. It's still winning. It's about winning. I want to win.

[Don Hahn]

But ultimately I was happy Team USA went. I'm just acknowledging that it was very difficult. It makes for strange bedfellows.

[Peter]

That part I can understand. That I can understand.

[Don Hahn]

But you can't throw out. You said, isn't it strange? Bo Horvat scoring for the Canadian. It's Bo Horvat. Bo Horvat is a very good islander. He's not the islander.

[Peter]

I know, but I saw it and I was just like, all right, so what? So it. Just listen, you know what I mean? All right, good. Good for you, Bo. Score goals for Mina.

[Don Hahn]

Well, listen, it works out for Anthony. He doesn't have any issues, right? Because he doesn't on his team. He's got Fox on his team. He's got J.T. miller on.

[Caller Jacob]

Yeah, I got different issues.

[Don Hahn]

You're in great shape. All the rangers, the door are on team Benedetto.

[Peter]

Can't put a puck by an Italian.

[Caller Jacob]

Going, that's okay.

[Peter]

Going in.

[Caller Jacob]

I got my money.

[Don Hahn]

No, I'm going to show you the absolute piece of garbage. Our producer rips Zabanajad every chance he can. What did he do yesterday? Anytime. Goal scorer for team Sweden.

[Caller Jacob]

If it's gonna hurt me, it might as well make me money.

[Don Hahn]

All of a sudden I'm looking at. He's got the game on and it's like, Zabanajad misses an open net. Emotional, like, what are you emotional for?

[Rosenberg]

It's.

[Don Hahn]

It's the team Sweden. And then he's like, well, I got him as the end of time goal scorer.

[Commercial Voice]

I'm like.

[Don Hahn]

And the hat trick. All the things you've been saying about.

[Peter]

You did. Hat trick. Yeah.

[Caller Jacob]

Plus 6,000. Why not, Peter?

[Don Hahn]

Why not? You got it.

[Caller Jacob]

You got a dabble.

[Rosenberg]

Listen, let me tell you something. I'm gonna have you guys know something right now. If Anthony were either irresponsible or had any money, it would all be gone. Because the man loves to throw out a bet if it makes. I know every night he's paying attention. He's just reasonable.

[Don Hahn]

And he makes him A$2 responsibly because.

[Caller Jacob]

Why would I do that? Peter out of control.

[Don Hahn]

But.

[Rosenberg]

No but.

[Don Hahn]

But it was. But it was.

[Peter]

You know what?

[Don Hahn]

I hope I'm not telling tales out of school. If I am, you got the dunk button.

[Peter]

But wait a minute.

[Rosenberg]

Interesting.

[Peter]

Peter needs to answer the question.

[Rosenberg]

Ask the question again, Anthony, because it was so good.

[Caller Jacob]

Now the game's about to start. I already have Matt Boldy Anytime goal scorer. If I were to do that, where would I go find that?

[Peter]

Oh, good.

[Rosenberg]

Well, I think if you want to know why betting the winner games on Fanduel makes sense, it's because you can bet game lines to medal counts to finding your angle on the events you care about most. Like you just stated, Fanduel gives you more ways to stay connected to the action. The Winter Games are on. And there's no better way to follow them than with a bet on Fanduel. Curly matches that start slow and somehow get tense fast. Speed skating decided by inches. Double luge, which looks like some sort of sexual act. Whatever. Hockey games that feel different. It's all there for you. Plus so much more. USA Hockey. Go ahead, bet him to win gold at FanDuel. Play your game. 21 and over physically present New York for help with the gambling problem, Anthony, call 8778-Hopeny or text OPENY 467-369. Don, you were saying?

[Don Hahn]

Well, because I misunderstood Anthony, because as he's watching it, Zabanejad misses the open net. He's like, of course he misses the open net. I'm thinking he's ripping Zabanajad. What he's doing, he's ripping himself for betting Zabanajad. But later on in that same sequence, he scored the goal and he made his millions and good for him. So they're underway in Milan, USA and Latvia. We'll keep an eye on that. And we kind of jumped off to the open. We did. Because basically we're talking about loyalty, right? You're loyal to your country and you've got to let the teams you know that have players that you root for in the NHL or in the NBA. When we get to the summer, you got to maybe put that aside and your country comes first in certain circumstances. I was just acknowledging that my loyalty was being tested as a Devil fan back in 2002. Because Martin Brodeur was the goaltender for Team Canada. Well, loyalty came up in a conversation with the great James Harden, and this really tells me, in a nutshell, the state that the NBA is in right now. Here's James Harden on loyalty being overrated.

[James Harden]

And the whole quote, unquote, loyalty thing is I think it's overrated. You know, I think this is a business at the end of the day, and it's a lot of money involved and a lot of decisions that has to be made, like if a player isn't producing or if. If you don't see him future or, you know, front office, some of them have to do, like, a job and want to keep their job, feel like they got to do what's best for, you know, to keep their job, and they trade players, or if a guy isn't happy and he wants to be traded to somewhere else and it's a problem. It's just so many different dynamics that go into it. This is a business at the end of the day, so, like, you know, not even just NBA, but, like, people that have normal jobs have, you know, have those same problems. It's just not magnified, you know, I mean, so for me, it's always about I don't lose focus of, you know, trying to compete for a championship and then financially, you know, making sure that my family is taken care of. You know, I mean, because I'm very smart and I've sacrificed a lot, you know, I mean, financially, like, which they don't get credit. I don't get credit on it, don't get talked about, but I'm fulfilled and I'm happy with it, you know, but, like, winning a championship or at least having a chance to, and then financially getting paid for, you know, me being available and playing at the highest level for so long. So to answer your question, you know, this is a business at the end of the day. So I feel like players should, you know, ultimately do what's best for them, and front office does what's best for them and their owner and their organization. So, you know, it's two sides of.

[Don Hahn]

A story, you know, just does a.

[Peter]

Whole lot of shit.

[Don Hahn]

Just shut your mouth.

[Peter]

None of it made any sense.

[Don Hahn]

No, the reason you shut your mouth is this, all right, because all these players do it in all sports, and it makes me stick. Sick, right? I got to do what's best for my family. You've got generational wealth, man. All right? Your family's fine. Your family's family's fine. Your third generation's Fine. Okay. When you start talking about, well, people home, they have to make decisions.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

There are people that are making real decisions about putting food on their table and being able to literally survive, be able to pay rent, pay their car payment, get their kids to school, put clothes on their backs. Those are real decisions. So when a family member makes a decision for money, it's because they need that money. When an NBA player makes a decision for money, it's largely based on greed. Now, the great thing about this country and capitalism is there's nothing wrong with greed. Greed is good. That was a quote from a famous movie, Gordon Gekko, but please don't confuse the two. And we start talking about making business decisions. That's the problem with the sport, Alan, and everybody's making business decisions. You got organizations like the Utah Jazz making business decisions to tank so they can get a better pick. And what many people believe is going to be a generational draft coming up in a few months. You've got players making business decisions that regular games, regular season games don't matter because they're getting ready for the postseason or the season's too hard. Three games and four nights, second of back to backs. They're making business decisions. And unfortunately the fans suffer because I want to get excited about Nick's pistons and find out nobody's playing.

[Rosenberg]

The only, the only thing that completely lost me from the Harden statement, I overall don't have a problem with all of it. When you throw James Harden is Alan. He's a top 50 player of all time, right?

[Peter]

He's top 75.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, he's top 75.

[Rosenberg]

75 and 75.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, sorry.

[Rosenberg]

He's a top 75 player of all time. Okay. His at his best. He's unbelievably a truly marquee level talent. Dude, you are richer than God. Just don't use your language. It's unreasonable to have that little lack of aware. The lack of awareness to know that the fans shell out money to see you and you're talking about doing what's right for your family.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

When? Right now.

[Rosenberg]

You could quit, eat Haagen Dazs every moment for the rest of your life and be richer than anyone I'll ever know. It's the lack of awareness is the, Is the.

[Don Hahn]

And the other thing that bothers me.

[Peter]

Talking about sacrifices and like just.

[Don Hahn]

I'm sure he made a ton of sacrifices to get in life.

[Peter]

No, no, no. He's talking about contraction, right? You know, accepting a buyout or not having to get the extension to. But you start taking the less, taking a lesser extension and all that stuff. Like he says, come on, dude. If I may.

[Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Peter]

What he's saying, of course, and this is the classic, what players do. You know, a general manager just can trade you at any time if he's not happy with you. But if a player's not happy, well, why is a player not happy? Like, when a general manager is not happy is because my team sucks, right? And you're part of the problem. And I got to get rid of you. I got to get. I got to use you to get a better player or I got to move on from you because you're not living up to expectations. Whatever it is you. It has to do with wins and losses. What he's done in his career is left situations because he's just quote, unquote, not happy, right? Most of the time, it's because he asked for an extension and they're saying, we're not ready to do that right now. And he's like, well, I don't have any security here, so I want to go. He always, look, this is where you respect the fact that he's a very smart guy. He's shrewd. He understands. He understands, and he handles it like a business. He's a mercenary to the truest sense of the word. He plays for him, the winning part of it that comes with the game. But he's always about him. And that's the dangerous thing about bringing him in, is that, you know, you'll get a little bump when he first gets there because he knows, all right, I got a new. It's like anything. Meet a girl she's into, you get her to say she loves me. Once she does, I got her. And once I get that now, I know I could act any way I want because she's gonna be afraid to lose, right? She wants to keep me happy. And that's kind of his approach everywhere he goes. So I hate this notion that, well, they can trade us whenever they want. The only reason why I'm trading you is because we're not winning. Because if we're winning, we're all getting rich. But if we're not winning and you're part of the problem, I gotta make a change. That's called team building. What you're doing is. Is called bank building, right? Different. They're not the same thing.

[Don Hahn]

And a general manager that trades you is doing it for the most part. You know, I'm sure there are occasions where I just don't like your face. I'M going to trade you. It comes down to, I got a job to do. My job is to make the team as good as it can be right now. It's not good.

[Peter]

It's not about you.

[Don Hahn]

You're not playing well. The only, I think the only sport where it's an argument where, hey, you know, they can just cut me and I and I'm done is football. Because the money's not always guaranteed for everybody outside of quarterbacks. A lot of guys get cut, you know, but we're talking about NBA player, man. So if you do get cut, if you do feel like you were wrong, you're still getting paid.

[Peter]

But it does. What he says, though, is the example of where the NBA has gone in this generation. And it's why you feel like the competitive nature is not there anymore. They score.

[Don Hahn]

USA score. Woo.

[Peter]

Already. Yeah. I saw Anthony doing the pumpernickel. Remember Bernie Nichols used to do that?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Peter]

That's what Anthony was. Brady Kachuk, of course.

[Don Hahn]

So they're, they're torn. They're torn up in Ottawa Nation capital in Ottawa.

[Peter]

They don't know what to do.

[Don Hahn]

It's like, wait a minute. But Elvis, Mers Leakins, by the way, who's not nobody for Latvia. So this could be a competitive.

[Peter]

That's a strange poll.

[Don Hahn]

What? Elvis Lincoln, he's the goaltender for life.

[Peter]

It doesn't matter. It's just saying that name to the, to the common audience in New York.

[Rosenberg]

Yes. Thank you.

[Don Hahn]

Thank you. Elvis Merzleekins. He's the goaltender of the Columbus Blue Jackets. We're in the division of the Devils, the Rangers and the Islanders.

[Peter]

But for the majority of people, when you say that name, he's right. There's a lot of people that were.

[Don Hahn]

Like, yes, I'm going to let Jake listen.

[Caller Jacob]

I could have done that for half the music conversation for the last two days.

[Don Hahn]

Wow. Strange poll. Jacob, for you is else. And for you. So there you go, a strange poll.

[Peter]

No, it's not.

[Don Hahn]

Thank you. That's Jacob.

[Peter]

And I'm not a hockey guy.

[Don Hahn]

That's right. But you know what? He's a sports guy.

[Peter]

He's a sports guy.

[Rosenberg]

You think that if we polled the audience. What, Don, what percentage of the current listening audience do you think would know him?

[Don Hahn]

50.

[Peter]

50%.

[Don Hahn]

We've got a very. They're high but very intelligent.

[Peter]

It's still early. Another hour, 4:20. Then they'll be.

[Don Hahn]

Our audience is high. Walking in.

[Peter]

Just walking in.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter]

They're in the cloud. I don't know where I was before, but it's been where the NBA is just. That's the problem.

[Don Hahn]

No, the regular season doesn't matter.

[Peter]

It's become the business and that's the only thing that matters. And what we've also learned is that the only time the business matters is from April on.

[Don Hahn]

Right. And I think that's what the networks are buying into. But are the fans buying into this? I mean, the great thing about the Knicks under Thibodeau was that you didn't have to worry about this. Right. They were going to play hard all the time, but even they're starting to make some business decisions and they're smart. I mean, what's happening with Mitch, that's smart. That's. He's not 100%. Yeah. Not playing in the back to backs and all that. But you're starting to see. I'm sorry. That from at least a defensive standpoint, they kind of mailed in the game against the pace. I don't think that happens under Tibs.

[Peter]

Yeah, but see, I agree. But you know what happened over the last couple years is that people as Tibbs would want to win every game to a point where he's not going to rest. Guys, like, there was an example last year of this crazy back to back. I did. We were in San Antonio the next night in Charlotte. What the hell? Like, are you crazy back to back like that?

[Don Hahn]

No, I know.

[Peter]

That's too like. So we got in. It was 3am by the time we got to the hotel. Not to bed, to the hotel. Listen, so you've been through it. So I'm thinking, all right, it's Charlotte. They weren't very good last year. He's got to probably sit some guys that play the night before in San Antonio, right? No, everybody played. And so fans were furious that he played and they were out of gas and they lost the game. And fans were angry that Tibbs didn't punt that game.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter]

See what I mean? You can't win.

[Don Hahn]

No, you can't win. But.

[Peter]

Because everybody's conflicted by it.

[Don Hahn]

But it is interesting you bring up the hockey because right now we're going through the condensed schedule because of the Olympic break and I've had some crazy travel getting to be with the team all the time. But there's never any load management in the NHL. They got the same schedule as the NBA. Really is unreal. A lot of back to backs. Three games and four nights. Other than the goaltending change, is there ever a time where they're like, you know what We've played a lot of games. We're just going to know that doesn't happen.

[Peter]

You got to love hockey to play that much.

[Don Hahn]

But they do. Because you know what, their regular season though, has meaning because back when we were growing up, 16 of 21 teams made the playoffs. Now it's 16 of 32. There's no play in tournament.

[Peter]

How come they haven't expanded? Isn't that interesting?

[Don Hahn]

Because they want they because they believe in their system. Then they believe they want their regular season.

[Peter]

And teams don't take. Huh? Teams don't tank.

[Don Hahn]

I don't see exact now I can't get into their minds whether they're just mailing in efforts. But you do see guys at the end of the season maybe are healthy scratches for teams getting ready for the playoffs because they don't want to hurt somebody in game 81 of a meaningless game. But I don't see the tanking. The last I saw tanking, the Penguins purposely lost games for Lemieux, and that was in 1984.

[Peter]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

How'd it work out?

[Peter]

It worked out pretty good.

[Don Hahn]

Well, you know what?

[Peter]

That's what hate about tanking is. Always the example of how it works.

[Don Hahn]

I'm going to tell you this. I'm going to be that guy. It worked out great. Not just on the ice for the Penguins. It worked out very well because he got him out of bankruptcy. Right? It was amazing. The Devils had the second pick in that draft. So they're the ones that got cost because they played Penguins. Didn't they get Lemieux, Devils get Kirk.

[Peter]

Mullen, who wasn't but Kirk Mullen.

[Don Hahn]

It wasn't nothing. But in Lemieux life span in the NHL, Devils won three Cups, Lemieux won two.

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[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter]

Really?

[Rosenberg]

This album came out on this day.

[Don Hahn]

Really?

[Rosenberg]

91, 92. No, no wait, hold on.

[Peter]

No, this has to be late. No, 90.

[Rosenberg]

90.

[Peter]

This was from 90?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Commercial Voice]

Oh, no.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I guess. I guess it makes sense. Wow. I wish those pants would come back, because that would be. They just felt. It looks so comfortable.

[Rosenberg]

I wish you love the pants like I did.

[Peter]

That was. That was a time, man. Here we go.

[Rosenberg]

It was Hammer time.

[Peter]

We're gonna. We're gonna. Oh, we're gonna old man this now, right? Send Anthony off the edge.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Because it was 1990.

[Peter]

That's a long time ago.

[Rosenberg]

That's a long.

[Caller Jacob]

I got hockey.

[Don Hahn]

I'm good.

[Caller Jacob]

Tell about you on.

[Rosenberg]

90 is a long time ago, but, like, the 36 years ago.

[Peter]

Think about it. 90 for us now is like, it was 1980 for when we were kids in 1980.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter]

And we heard, like, it was 36 years ago. Think about that.

[Rosenberg]

They were talking. They were talking 1944.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

No, that's.

[Don Hahn]

We were literally at war.

[Peter]

What are we doing? I don't like this. No me gusta.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

No mas.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

It's crazy, but I. But when I first heard it, I'm like, no way. Then I thought about it. It's a while ago. Amert's what I do.

[Rosenberg]

For me. For me, it was. It was very. That's exactly right. Because I was a little kid when. Yeah, you were 11.

[Peter]

You were probably loving it.

[Rosenberg]

No, no, I was already. I was already underground by 90. How about this?

[Peter]

How old?

[Rosenberg]

But I was 11. Oh, so you come by 90. I was already. I'd already known MC Hammer from his first album from. Let's Get It Started with Turn this Mother Out.

[Peter]

Look at you.

[Rosenberg]

I was already, like. I know MC Hammer. And then, you know.

[Peter]

You didn't, like. Come on. At 11, you weren't.

[Rosenberg]

I wasn't. I wasn't, like, into. I wasn't, like, into it because I was already into, like, you know, not. I mean, yes. I'm being that guy.

[Peter]

You were above that.

[Rosenberg]

I was into better rap already.

[Peter]

Oh, wow.

[Don Hahn]

No, I get that. That's. He was too.

[Peter]

He was already a commercial at 11.

[Don Hahn]

9. I get what.

[Rosenberg]

It was pretty commercial.

[Peter]

It was very commercial.

[Don Hahn]

And then we find out later on that he was an intern for the Oakland A's.

[Rosenberg]

Well, they call it a. I think they call it a bat boy.

[Don Hahn]

And then. But then he used to, like, run and get scores for, you know, Finley when he wasn't at the games. Like, he was. It was just crazy. Like, those great Oakland A's teams winning World Series. He was. He was a part of the team. It was kind of crazy.

[Rosenberg]

Well, how about this similar connection because you used the word intern? I thought he was a bat. I thought it was literally a ball boy or.

[Don Hahn]

I think he did everything. Like, I think he was a bat boy. But then, like, during the off season, he worked in the office. Like, I think he just did. I don't know if he ever got paid, but I think he did everything for Same.

[Rosenberg]

Same note, though. Common was a ball boy for the Bulls starting Michael Jordan's rookie season.

[Don Hahn]

That's a good time to start.

[Peter]

That's pretty.

[Rosenberg]

That was the time.

[Don Hahn]

How old was that was 86, right? No, 84. 84.

[Rosenberg]

So how old was he then? So Common was.

[Don Hahn]

Common's older. 12.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

He's a cool dude, you know, Great guy.

[Peter]

Ball boys sometimes get, like, the signature shoe of the best players on the team that they're working for. Like, a lot of times those guys will gift shoes to the ball boys. Can you imagine if Common got a.

[Don Hahn]

Pair of original Jordans?

[Peter]

Original Jordans.

[Rosenberg]

I just. And I've never seen it.

[Peter]

And he was like, he's all right. I didn't really wear him.

[Rosenberg]

I've interviewed Common.

[Don Hahn]

Or he wore them, like, on the street.

[Peter]

It's like mowing the grass.

[Rosenberg]

I've interviewed the guy a million times, and I've never asked him about this.

[Peter]

Well.

[Rosenberg]

And I. I'm just so curious. Like, what, What? Michael. It's hard to picture Michael Jordan as a kid. And when he got there, he was a kid.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

It's crazy.

[Don Hahn]

And now he's a legend.

[Peter]

Yeah, I'll say. Now he's a billionaire.

[Don Hahn]

Let's get it started on Don Hanna Rosenberg with Muhammad on Long Island. You're on espn.

[Caller Mo]

What's going on, guys? Thanks for taking my call. I just want to jump in on the. On the harder conversation. Like, I, I understand his point.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Caller Mo]

Because you guys, like, we've seen a few times where, like, a player might find out he's traded and he was home watching espn or he's at the game on the bench and find out he's traded. So their reaction to the business side of it is I, I can respect what hard is saying. I was with you, though, John. Once he tried to, like, compare it to, like, average, everyday people. It's like, that's where he lost me at. But I just didn't understand it because it's like these organizations never wronged him. So I, I. While I can understand his sentiment, I just feel like it never happened to him. I was trying to come at that.

[Peter]

Being his point that you nailed it, Mo. That's exactly, I think, the point we're trying to make. He's using someone else's burden as his own as to why he does what he does. He's using someone else's controversy as his own doing what he does. He's almost trying to, like, you know, act like I'm doing this because I have to. No, you don't ask because you want to, and that's fine. But that's what I don't like, when you start trying to turn it into something where, you know, I'm the one being oppressed here. Like, stop it.

[Don Hahn]

Right? I mean, because there's a part you almost could admire the honesty of. Hey, it's just a business to me, right? I'm a basketball player.

[Peter]

That's fine.

[Don Hahn]

I'm making business decisions.

[Peter]

I'm a mercenary.

[Don Hahn]

You guys can all get excited about the team I'm on winning a championship, but I'm excited about the people paycheck every two weeks. I would have more respect for it. But then we only want to try to play the victim. We're trying to play like, hey, listen, I've been. You haven't been wronged. You've been right because you're so good. And that's the problem, is we live with it. My family, it just comes off as very, very disingenuous. That's the, like, Muhammad repeated what I said and respected it of the Id start throwing in. Just, you know what? Families making decisions, they have to make those decisions.

[Peter]

Decisions.

[Don Hahn]

Their loyalty is coming through for their family because that's why they work. My dad worked not because he enjoyed being an electrician or mowing the lawn or driving the Zamboni at Fritz Dietzel's. He did it because of loyalty to his family, because I needed shoes, I needed clothes, we needed food on the table. His loyalty was to his family, and obviously Harden's loyalty is to his bank account. And okay, fine. I mean, he's. Believe me, he's not the only one.

[Rosenberg]

By the way, that your loyalty to your bank account has led to a very lovely life for your family. Yes, but you can't. You can't act as if at this point, if you don't make the right choice, your kids won't be able to.

[Don Hahn]

Go to the school they want to go. None of the business decisions that he has made out, Peter, have come from. Well, I've got to do this because little Susie wants this dress that we just can't afford. So I am I'm going to try to talk my way out of the Clippers and go to. So we can get little Susie that dress for the prom. No, it's because that's how they keep score. How much money do you make? You know how comfortable I am in the situation that I'm in. So keeping an eye on all of this. What's the score now? That somebody just score.

[Caller Jacob]

Looks like Brock Nelson.

[Don Hahn]

Brock Nelson has scored for Team usa. Former Island.

[Caller Jacob]

Oh, another deflection.

[Don Hahn]

So we'll keep an eye on what Team USA is doing. Let's go to Anthony in Jersey City. You're on ESPN New York. Hi, how are you, Anthony?

[Anthony]

Hey, guys, I'm doing great. I just want to comment on the list yesterday. I first off want to say, Allen, I think your list was by far the best. One most encompassing, had all of the things that you need from great rock list, including a Beatles song. I'm a little surprised that you're the only one that had.

[Peter]

I was too.

[Anthony]

Or I guess Don had the day in the.

[Rosenberg]

I'm the only one who didn't.

[Don Hahn]

True.

[Anthony]

And I do. I will say about Don's list, A Day in the Life is one of my favorite Beatles songs ever. So I think that's great. But beyond that, Don, I'm sorry. I love you. I think you were trying to be that guy a little bit. I think you were trying a little too hard to pull out some maybe deeper cuts, you know, maybe songs people wouldn't think. Don say, you know, Black Sabbath in the night in 1970 was one of the pioneer rock bands and started his whole favorite genre, metal.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Anthony]

I think it would have been definitely fine to put in.

[Don Hahn]

It would have been fine if I. That's what I believe. But it just. Listen, I love Black Sabbath and they had number one albums in the United States, in uk. But it took. The first Sabbath album came out in 1969 on my birthday, February 13, 1969. And then they really hit with Master of Puppet, Master of Reality and Paranoid. It would be another decade before you would see a hard rock album chart. Like it's. So I'm just saying from a significant standpoint. Oh, I love metal. But you could still make the claim, Anthony, that like metal is still trying to find its footing as an accepted form of music. They still get disrespected by the Grammys. They still get disrespected for the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. So it just shows you that it just still isn't getting the credit that it deserves because of how hard it is to do that. I was looking at the songs that have broken through. Now, you may not like the songs that I put on, but you can't say that those five songs aren't significant.

[Rosenberg]

No, the significance of the song is not questioned. Go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

Sorry, bud.

[Anthony]

Yeah, I think the five. Yes, no problem. I think the five songs you chose are definitely great, Definitely significant. But I think when it comes to rock, you don't necessarily think of some of those. And I think rock, you really think of Paranoid Iron.

[Don Hahn]

I think that's what. See, this is what gets lost in translation. I was asked by. By a listener to come up with the top five rock and roll songs of all time. Then all of a sudden it became, you know, Peter and Alan were discussing, like, what sounds like rock. Well, that wasn't. I'm giving you the top five songs. And you could say that soft rock, they're folk music. Pop, they're rock and roll songs. So it wasn't like, give me the song that sounds the most like rock and roll. That wasn't. That wasn't what I was trying to accomplish. Maybe that's what you guys are trying to accomplish. I was giving you the top five most influential, greatest rock songs of all time. Those five are rock songs. They're not hard rock songs. They're not metal songs. They may not be the rock and roll that you think of, but they're rock songs. They get played on classic rock stations.

[Rosenberg]

You really hear. Just hear me out. You really hear God Only Knows on classic rock stations?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, absolutely. 100%. How do you think I found it?

[Rosenberg]

I don't know. I just. It's so. It's so not what I picture, but it gets.

[Don Hahn]

Every single one of those songs get played on classic rock stage.

[Rosenberg]

Bridge Over Troubled Water, too?

[Don Hahn]

Absolutely. Simon and Garfunkel gets played. Now, I'm not saying it's like a heavy rotation. And every single song that I have, you look at any top 100 list, those five songs are on the list somewhere. Maybe not in the top five, but they're on the list.

[Rosenberg]

No part of you later thought, did I really choose rock rock songs?

[Don Hahn]

No, because they're rock songs. It's folk rock, it's pop rock. That's what it's all rock.

[Rosenberg]

It's just such a broad definition of rock. And I mean, it's funny, because yesterday the mouth breather Gene Simmons decided to come out and say again that hip hop has no place in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame.

[Don Hahn]

Well, he's being literal. I Guess. Because I guess if it's not rock and roll. No, he's being a racist.

[Rosenberg]

Masked as being literal.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Rosenberg]

He's. He's not a good guy, but he's made this point over and over again. But I will say this. If hip hop goes in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. Alan, it's like, I just think with Don's definition, we. We absolutely should have considered hip hop records as well. Which I didn't consider.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

Because to me, Bridge Over Troubled Water, I would say is maybe less rock to me than Sucker MCS by Run dmc.

[Don Hahn]

But you wouldn't. I'm saying you will hear this on classic rock stations.

[Peter]

Yeah, I. Like I said, that's what made the beauty of what we did, this little project we did together. It was loosely defined, which allowed us to have our own translation. And that's what he ended up. We ended up doing. It's three different translations of it. And like I said, none of us are wrong and none of us are right. That's what this was always going to be. It was just an interesting. Let's see how much different we are. And the same we are with the. With five songs. And it was amazing that we had one song match and we had what, one band match? That's it.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter]

So it just shows you how wide open it is. And that was.

[Don Hahn]

I knew I'd fail.

[Peter]

That was the beauty of it.

[Don Hahn]

Knew that I was going to fail. They were all going to fail. Because there's no way you're going to make everybody happy.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

You know, but when, you know, when I get. When I get people saying to me, I never heard of any of your songs, well, then you disqualified yourself from having a conversation because you can't say to me that you. If you don't know those songs, then you can't participate in the conversation.

[Peter]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Though I did not pick five obscure songs, I did not. I did not find any album cuts. Those aren't album cuts.

[Rosenberg]

No, these are all singles and they're all big. The question for me would be, are some of the people that you chose, like, for example, Simon and Garfunkel, call them a folk rock group. However, I still don't consider that song to have the rock part of it. I consider that song to just be the folk pop part of Simon and Garbage doesn't hit rock.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter]

But.

[Rosenberg]

But again, that's. I think that we're getting into literal definitions and what our ear says is.

[Peter]

Something we're gonna end up. But we're going to end up on a merry go round now, to me, like, we just. We got to jump off. We did what we did. But. But. No, but seriously.

[Rosenberg]

Go round and round. But until you get nauseous and sick.

[Peter]

That's. I'm getting nauseous. Like. Like, we. We all had our takes. We all had our. The way we did it. It came out three different ways, which I actually think is a success. And people reacted.

[Don Hahn]

No, I knew I was going to fail. I knew you were going to fail.

[Peter]

But we also.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, but don't feel. I think Don was the worst. But you're. Because. Because, Peter, what you're doing is you change the rules.

[Rosenberg]

It's not changing the rules.

[Don Hahn]

It wasn't about what sounds. But. But I'm saying those are rock and roll songs. They are.

[Rosenberg]

I don't know. I don't know if I agree. I think they're technically in the genre, but I don't think they're all rock songs.

[Don Hahn]

But now you're changing the rules.

[Peter]

It's different.

[Rosenberg]

American Pie is not a rock song.

[Peter]

But it is.

[Don Hahn]

It is. And it's on every list of rocks.

[Peter]

It is, though. That's the. The problem again. We're spinning now. Now we're in the teacups now. I'm getting ahead of it.

[Don Hahn]

Right? I never. I always get dick. I never understood why people want to be nauseous. I do everything I can not to be nauseous. I'm going to pay money, stand online for two hours to become nauseous. Don't get it.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

There you go. I like the vibe of the show. 1-800-919-3776. We're talking about the irrelevancy of the regular season in the NBA and the comments from Harden that he's just a businessman and loyalty is overrated. And we're keeping an eye on USA Latvia, which is tied at 1. USA has had two disallowed goals. We were talking off the air. You know, you could disrespect Latvia all you want. They've only got four NHL players on, and not counting the goaltender, but the goaltender is really good.

[Peter]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

In Elvis Mirzlickin. So if you want to, like, sleep on Latvia and all of a sudden he stands on his head.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

That's game two. One. It could happen.

[Peter]

It's real. Be careful on the. On that front we were just talking about, again, the one part of it, of course, the loyalty thing. Right. But the part that Adam Silver is dealing with a lot of issues with his sport, and it's the value of the regular season. And you know what? It's really starting to creep in more and more, and it's starting to get annoying. They play too many games. It's because, like, what I can't stand about this league is it's the only league where the players get sympathy for how difficult and how long the season is it. Like, could you. The NFL's adding games. That's the most arduous season of any of the four major sports. Argue with the wall. That's the hardest sport to play. Game in and game out, because it takes six days to recover for the next game, and sometimes you don't get six.

[Don Hahn]

And during those six days, for three or four of them, you're practicing. Practicing, and you're preparing for the next game.

[Peter]

Like, honestly. And like, Bart always would say the day, like, Sunday, Monday morning, you feel like you were in a car wreck. By Wednesday, you're like, I think I can go by Friday. You're ready. Like, it's. That's. It's a weekly process, so don't tell me that the NBA season is that hard. And LeBron did this whole thing recently about how players from the past who played 80 games or more, he had this whole rant. He went on about how they didn't have to deal with. And then he would. He started laying out things in today's NBA, and I'm like, bud, they. A lot of times, like, if you want to go way back, we're in a bus. Look at the sneakers that were on their feet. Look at some of the arenas they played in.

[Don Hahn]

Well, depending on what time you're talking. Traveling commercial.

[Peter]

Yeah. Like, don't even try it. Like, how could you possibly try to compare what you guys have? I'm sorry. You know what else doesn't happen? What didn't happen even 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you didn't have three massage therapists, five trainers. Right. Traveling, training tables, massage tables, cryotherapy. Like, Don. What they have at their disposal for recovery is the highest level of technology that you can find. So I don't want to hear it. That is different. It's. What. We just fall for it every time. And we feel bad for the players for how difficult it is. And what we don't like is the players break down. And as fans, you get mad. My team broke down at the end of the season, my coach played too many minutes of too many players. They have to manage it better because we need to be healthy by the end of the season. Oklahoma City Thunder, how often did they last season load manage?

[Don Hahn]

Not a lot.

[Caller Jacob]

Not a lot.

[Don Hahn]

And Nick certainly did.

[Peter]

No, they got to the finals. They want. Like, that's the stuff that I think creeps in. And we start creating this notion of, you know, maybe they should just play less games.

[Don Hahn]

But I think there's.

[Peter]

It's like, what? Why?

[Rosenberg]

You know?

[Don Hahn]

But some of the fans that argue about the minutes, like, do you really. Did Brunson need to play 40 minutes in a game? They won by 30. Like, that's a different argument than not playing, sitting in your suit, watching the game and not playing. Because the second of.

[Peter]

Here's the thing now, here's what was happening that they finally put a stop to, and it was because they decided to stop making a charade. The Jazz started doing something that I was afraid was going to catch on for teams that are tanking. So I don't want to look like I'm tanking. So I'm not going to load manage players. I'm going to address them. And they played in the first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, but I'm not playing them in the fourth quarter. So it's a good game. I have two highly talented players in Lowry, Markkanen and Jaren Jackson. We're in a game, and in the fourth quarter, they stay on the bench and they don't get up. And what are you gonna tell? Like, you can't say. Why didn't you play them? I didn't want him. Well, that's tanking. No, it isn't. I. I played my players. You can't tell me when and how to play my players. So that. I was so worried that what Will Hardy did in Utah was gonna suddenly become this thing where every coach is like, oh, so instead of not playing, instead of sitting my guys and making a mockery of it, I'll say I dressed them, but you can't tell me when I can play them.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And that's why it's so difficult to govern.

[Peter]

But they finally told Jackson he's got to get surgery, and they killed the end of the season. But, I mean, that got like, wait a minute. That's a whole other level of tanking that becomes diabolical.

[Don Hahn]

And what LeBron was saying is, is that, you know, they're more athletic, the game's faster, it's harder. I know, but it was Way more physical back in the day.

[Peter]

Way more physical.

[Don Hahn]

But again and again, I don't want to be that guy because in a half hour we'll have that guy. That, that guy Thursday. Is that how do they do it in the NHL? And don't get me. Well, they only play 20 minutes, but they're. When they're on the ice for the 20 minutes, they're skating back and forth. When I'm on the basketball court for 35 minutes, I might standing.

[Peter]

No, no, no. The, the, the VO2 is, there's no, no comparison. Right. So.

[Don Hahn]

So how.

[Peter]

No way.

[Don Hahn]

So how do they do it in the NHL? Play 82 games, three games in four.

[Peter]

Let me ask you. Travel.

[Don Hahn]

Sometimes worse.

[Peter]

Travel is the game. I know the answer. But I'm going to ask you, because you call games, is the game faster now than it was in the 90s?

[Don Hahn]

Of course it is. I mean, it's not as physical. No, but you can say the same.

[Peter]

Thing about the NBA is not physical either. Right.

[Don Hahn]

But. But even though it might not have been faster 30 years ago, I'm getting a foul, knocking me into the third row.

[Peter]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

1-800-919-3776. Got more calls.

[Peter]

Adam Silver has a problem, Don. He has a problem. No one wants to talk about it. He certainly doesn't. We're going into All Star Weekend and by the way, and we have Kevin Durant, I'm sure we'll get to is trying to spark something that makes the All Star Game this weekend watchable, because that's the other problem. So the showcase of the sport's not even watchable. They've got a problem and they just never want to acknowledge it.

[Don Hahn]

And how do you fix it?

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I don't want to know how the.

[Peter]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. Sounds good.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.