Rosenberg (4:53)

Yeah. And what he's done, not only getting you back in the race for the division, which they legitimately now are four games back with four games to play against the Phillies again in Philadelphia, September 8th through 11th. So you have that to look forward to. But not only did he put you in that conversation for the division, you're now, I mean, well in control of a wild card spot.

Don Hahn (5:17)

Well, now.

Rosenberg (5:18)

And that's got to make you feel good because it was just a couple of days ago. There was this fear that the Mets might not even make the playoffs. But that feels like it's back under control. But now Don Peterson's been really good this year.

Chris Carlin (5:29)

He.

Rosenberg (5:29)

He's. You've been able to ride him a lot this year. He has been a workhorse. But if McClain is for real, that's two pitchers that you feel good about in a playoff series. And that's discounting the other guys you thought you'd believe in Mania. Obviously, Senga, who have not been good of late or at least can't give you length, that all you need is one of them to just be able to give you a good start. You could start thinking that you could be extremely competitive in a playoff series and start thinking that what this kid's able to do could open up the door for you. Start to believing that you could get back to the lcs. Don't you agree? And I'm not trying to be. This is not hyperbole. When you watch him pitch, this is not simply about the result. This is watching him pitch. Confident, in control. He's got an upper 90s fastball and a curveball that was making the Phillies confused. He's also got secondary and third pitch. He has a third and fourth pitch he can go to. But those, the fastball and the curveball have been really his strength. And he's confident and he can place him. And when you see that, especially when he got into trouble against a very good Phillies lineup, he did not panic, he did not sweat. He did not show you any signs that he was losing confidence or losing steam. The eighth, seventh and eighth inning, he pitched a lot of. He had to throw a lot of pitches, but he battled through to get out of it. To get to that eighth inning or to complete that eighth inning, you gotta feel like with two starters, you have a chance to do more than just make the playoffs, don't you? There's reason to believe that with Vientos.

Don Hahn (7:11)

Waking up, well, that now you're. Now you're talking.

Rosenberg (7:13)

Okay, Come on. No, no, but I'm saying when you start to see the momentum building, you're a month away from deciding who's my game one starter? Who's my game two starter? And he's, he's talked himself into a game two starter at the, at worst.

Don Hahn (7:29)

At this point, well, I don't know how. And you want that whole lefty, righty, lefty in a perfect world, you like that. I don't know how.

Rosenberg (7:38)

You don't do it depending on the matchups too. Now the other team isn't good at hitting lefties or something like that now.

Don Hahn (7:44)

Because Senga, you had to have lost confidence in him. He just, he looks, he looks shot right now. But you do have a few more starts where maybe if he can turn it around because he's experienced, you know, and where's the game? Like, do you want him pitching at home on the road? McLean, like what's, what's the better spot? I just think right now, when you hear Mendoza, you hear Stearns talk about. It's all about performance. If this kid continues to pitch the way he's pitching. And now it's like I said, five and two thirds against Seattle, seven against Atlanta, now a first place team. You go eight, getting better and better, stronger and stronger. If this continues, how is he not your game two star hell, how is he not possibly in consideration to be your game one starter if, let's say Peterson slipped a little bit? I mean, why not? I know it sounds crazy. You can't do that, Don. He's inexperienced. He's the only kid. If you're going to pitch that well, you can't hide it. You got to do it, you know? And let's see, there's still a few more starts. He might have a stinker here and if he does, how does he bounce back from that stinker? Does he go right back to pitching well again or does he go into a funk? There's a lot to see here. But right now, as we are on the doorstep of September and we just heard the general manager and manager of the team say it's all about performance. How is this guy right now not your Game 2 starter in the playoffs?

Rosenberg (9:01)

Haven't we seen in the history of baseball playoffs a phenom, a young pitcher that didn't know he wasn't supposed to be doing that. Right. Like when you saw he's too young. The inexperienced, but yet sometimes those are the guys. Dontrell Willis, Right, right. Jerry Jared Weaver. I'm going obviously back 100 years ago, but those are names like those are young guys. Kid from the Marlins, Josh Beckett.

Don Hahn (9:32)

Oh yeah, in 2000.

Rosenberg (9:33)

You know what I mean?

Don Hahn (9:34)

Like 2000.

Rosenberg (9:35)

This does happen. So it's not something that would be completely out of the realm of possibility. It is a real thing that sometimes a young player can turn into your ace right out of the gate because his stuff is that good. And I think that's something that you can really start to believe. And after that performance, I mean, think about it. The Phillies were on the. They were on the verge of getting swept. You think they weren't a little more locked into the scouting point? This is what the kid throws. This is what he does. His first two starts, what he's looked like. You had to believe that they knew that there was a lot on that game that they had to be ready for because they didn't want to get swept.

Don Hahn (10:10)

No.

Rosenberg (10:11)

And there's nothing they could do about it.

Don Hahn (10:12)

No. Couldn't do it. Got shut out. Got completely blanked. And the Mets start to hit. The Mets are starting to hit now. Yeah. There's just. When he first got called up, it was out of desperation because Montas goes on the illness. Nobody's giving you any kind of length. He was ready and we talked. Going back to the Volpe conversation with the Yankees, it sends a bad vibe around the organization when guys continue to get trotted out there and don't deserve to be out there. Right. Or guys are in the minor leagues and they're playing well, but they're not getting called up, they're not getting their promotion. You've got to be able to honor the organization and say the best players are the guys. They're going to get a chance to pitch. And otherwise you send that message of to being lethargic and not having that sense of urgency where doesn't matter how I play, I've got a job for life. I'm not gonna lose my position. That's what I think is kind of happening with the Yankees and Volpe. But with the Mets, with the conversation that we brought up, the sound we played from Mendoza and Stearns a couple of days ago about it being performance based, basically a glorified audition as we had in September. It's making everybody feel uncomfortable. Hey, if I go over 30, if I'm not being able to get into the sixth, seventh innings, the starting pitcher, if they continue to come to me out of the bullpen and I get shelled, I'm going to lose my job. And now Stanek's probably thinking I might not pitch right if I can't go out there and get the job done. Helsley, the same thing I got brought here Supposed to be a flamethrower. I'm supposed to get the job done. I haven't. They're not going to continue to trot me out there. They're bringing kids up. They're bringing kids up to replace the rotation. But it was also said that if the rotation does get their act together, these kids might move to the bullpen. So now I've got to pitch well. Otherwise I'm out of a job. And it's not like these guys aren't trying. But it does say something, that I've got to play well because I don't have a job for life. I'm not the ace forever. Senga was the ace to start the season. Now we're actually having a conversation. He might not get a start in the postseason. Think about that drop, right? It could happen.

Rosenberg (12:09)

It could.

Don Hahn (12:10)

And the only reason it can happen is if you have guys to take it and guys have taken it. Peterson wasn't going to be the ace of this staff. He took it. And now McLain might take it away from Peterson if he's not careful. Taking it away from Mania and everybody else and Holmes and everybody else in this rotation. Don't you want in sports to have that level of competition that I've always kind of glancing behind me because somebody's looking to take my job, and I've got to be at the absolute best. Otherwise, I. I'm gonna have to take a seat.

Rosenberg (12:38)

It's funny you say that, because we're in an era now where that's frowned upon, right? That used to be the way. Think about, like, how we used to hear the stories of a guy who just felt like I was one foot out the door, like they could rip up my contract. All the different things. There's so much security in today's pro sports now that there doesn't ever feel like there's that kind of accountability. And the only. They say this all the time in the NBA. They say it in the NFL as well. And it's the only thing left that you could do to hold the player accountable is playing time. That's how you do it. You want to send a message. You pull back the playing time because that's the last value for them. And their egos are too big to sit. Now, the ones that are okay with sitting, they don't care. They're paid well. You don't want them on your team anyway. But the other ones will eventually get fired up. But there used to be this thing about that, how unfair it was to mistreat A player and. No, those types of environments. And in a workplace too, Don, those are the places you want to work because those are the places, you know, that everybody's showing up prepared and ready and that's, that's when you know, okay, we got a squad, we can compete.

Don Hahn (13:47)

I think there's a difference between Anthony Volpe, 1 for 39, whatever he is, and punishing him by benching him. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is somebody's better than you and it's taken the position away. So I'm not, I'm not punishing you. I'm, I'm, I'm honoring the better player. Okay, so it really.

Rosenberg (14:13)

So Caballero would if he was tearing the COVID off the ball, right?

Don Hahn (14:17)

He's not, but he's not compared to Volpe, he certainly is. But so it's like so saying I can look at it as a demotion or sending him a message. No, I'm putting together the team that gives me the best chance to win. And now you're no longer a part of that. Not because I'm punishing you or grounding you. You didn't come in late, you didn't break curfew. It's that it's all performance driven and it's all about the back of your baseball card this year, not your history. I don't care what you did before. I don't care what the prognosticators had you in spring training. It's right now I am going to have, if I got a best of three series in the wild card against San Diego or the Dodgers, and that's look like how to line up if the Mets don't win this division, who are the three pitchers that give me the best chance to win the game, not who's making the most money, not who I promised that spot to back in February or March or even June or July. It's right now who are the three pitchers that give me the best chance to win? Or four, once we move on to the best of seven, right. Or for the Yankees case, who's the shortstop that gives us the best chance to win?

Rosenberg (15:22)

That's all the lineup you're looking at the lineup, right, because it's, you know, defense is one thing, but you want to make sure your lineup isn't top heavy, that you want to make sure that you're getting production out of every spot or as many spots as you possibly can. I'm with you. And that's why I feel like The Mets have found themselves in a healthy situation because they had these pitchers ready. And there was a tough think about it too. Things for the Mets were going fine in June. It started to turn mid June, late June, July was a disaster. But they didn't call anybody up yet other than who was the kid, Blade Tidwell. And everybody was like, they, they. Blade Tidwell jumped over all these three other pitchers. What are you doing?

Don Hahn (16:07)

Go get him. Blade Tidwell.

Rosenberg (16:09)

Yeah. Because Blade Tidwell wasn't going to be a starter. He was going to come out.

Chris Carlin (16:13)

Right.

Rosenberg (16:14)

They saw that there was in the near future, this is. Watching David Stern's work here makes you see that he does have a plan. No matter how frantic everybody gets, he sticks to it. They knew that Maniah was coming back off the injury, that Montos was coming back or had at that point been back. And they wanted to. And I remember these stories. For the first time, the Mets five man rotation was actually going to have a run. They were going to get all five of them at one time finally happen. And then you have to build them up because they're coming off injury. So I think he was giving them July and it went really bad. And then the injury started to happen. You get into August and you realize this can't go on anymore. And I think that's where they got to this point where, okay, I gave you your chance. So nobody can ever feel cheated. Oh, I just came off injury. You got to give me more than one start. No, I gave you about a month. I gave you a month. And this is now time for winning time. And that's why I like what Mendoza said. That's this, that everything they've done is the right thing to do. And there's still time left in this season to figure out if. Which way do we go? Will one of these vets finally reemerge? We know Montas won't, but will Manaya finally be able to break through a fourth inning wall that he hits every game? Every game. And will the young guys say, nope, this is my job. This is what you love. This is the great part of this season. It's not just about the standings, it's about the competition. Now to watch the chess pieces all come together. Who's going to play where? Don, this is where the 162 game season finally becomes a day to day process.

Don Hahn (17:50)

Right?

Rosenberg (17:50)

And now you can really talk about the day to day process instead of saying, well, it's a long season, there's.

Don Hahn (17:55)

A lot more games to be played 1-800-919-3776. We'll keep an eye on the lineup. Will Volpe be in it when the Yankees take on the White Sox? That's a 740 start, so we should get it fairly soon. But the Mets are right now the topic of conversation getting to the football of it all as well. We've got the Thursday rewrite coming up at 4:30. Anthony Pusick led ENN vehicle at 6:00 clock and of course Mets and the Marlins tonight at Citi Field. And our coverage begins at 6:30. But let's get to the phones. We're 1-800-919-3776. Starting it off as Dave in Elizabeth. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Dave?

Chris Carlin (18:33)

Hello, Donny Parks. What up Hollywood? Hans, I've been wanting to talk to you guys for the last couple of days. Real passionate about this Sterns and pitching things. I'm in lockstep of what both of you gentlemen said the other day about what you need from an ace and what I want from my eight. Now I think Mania might break that wall that you gentleman just said. And he's going to probably give us somewhere around. I'm hoping somewhere around six, seven innings. I know I'm asking for a lot, but if he can do that entering the postseason, I think we'll be okay also. Helsley, you're killing me, man. You, you're like the Devin Williams for us. You're the Devin Williams remake. And I don't like you like Don. I'm pretty sure you felt the same way I felt the other day. He went in there and he almost.

Don Hahn (19:15)

Threw the game away.

Chris Carlin (19:16)

Almost tore a brick at my tv.

Don Hahn (19:18)

He did throw it away. Luckily they were able to come back and get, you know, four straight hits to win the game in the ninth.

Chris Carlin (19:25)

Exactly like we're playing pretty good baseball right now. I hope we can take assistance. Dan, throw some friends. I'm loving everything I'm seeing. Real quick before gentlemen let me go. I think this white bike Sterns in the tail when the summer rolls around. Well, when, you know the whole season's over if we don't make it to the big dance. Why? Because this team right here, to me personally, I think we could go all the way. But the pitching is an issue. And if he did sign up Freed or some of the big acquisitions, you know, over the off season, I think he would have did all right.

Don Hahn (19:55)

Well, maybe.

Chris Carlin (19:57)

Thank you gentlemen.

Don Hahn (19:58)

You know, Freed definitely bounced back his last couple of starts. But you know, there was a time there he was going through some issues, fatigue, all right, there was no real pitcher at the deadline. You know, do you go after El Contra? But what Dave's falling into the trap of is putting all his eggs in the 2025 basket. It might very well come back to bite them. They might come up a starting pitcher short this year and not make the run you're hoping for. But you know these pitchers that you want to trade for, these pitchers you want to give eight year contracts to can landlock some of the kids. So maybe the idea was, hey, I want to be able to get to a point where I have a rotation that's led by McClain, Tong and Sproat. And then Holmes emerges after having the full year of getting stretched out, after being a closer to being a part of this, Peterson has risen to the occasion of maybe Senga could finally stay healthy and say, I don't want to landlock these opportunities by going out and getting a pitcher who's got years left on his contract. Giving a guy that's 31 years old an eight year contract. We're seeing a vision here. The fans want to see it bear fruit right away because they're fans, they're itching. They haven't seen A championship since 86. Stearns is thinking, yeah, I want to win now, but I want to make sure it doesn't come at the expense of being good for years to come. And now we're starting to see if Tong and Sproat are anywhere close to what McLean's been now you know why. Now you see the plan and now that you're talking about years of having a really good rotation instead of just one year.

Rosenberg (21:33)

And again, as I remind you, Stearns kind of reiterated that on that podcast with Sherman and John Heyman when they asked him about why wait so long and why do you seem to not be interested in giving out big contracts, starting pitchers? And his response was, is not that because they tried a couple of times and weren't able to get. They don't believe. And you said it so you were 100% right when you surmised they don't really think it's a good idea. At least that's what Stern said to give those eight to 10 year deals to guys that are 30 or older. And as he said, those don't age well.

Don Hahn (22:09)

And those that. And that's the going rate for those types of pitchers because that's when they become free agents. That's what the Yankees had to spend on Cole. That's what the Yankees had to spend on Freed, you know, so I understand the logic.

Rosenberg (22:20)

But he's like, if they were younger, yeah, of course, if there's a younger again, it's never going to happen. Like if, you know, somehow Skeens becomes.

Don Hahn (22:28)

Available, that's somebody they would go like.

Rosenberg (22:30)

You'Ll give him a half a billion dollars because you just feel like he's young and he's going to be really. But he's not going to be available. So that's why you're not going to go after the older guys and you'll and then the last thing that he said, and I'll remind everybody again, he said the ideal thing to do is to develop your own players to become starting pitchers. That's the plan. That's what they want and that's what we'll see if they have with these three guys.

Don Hahn (22:57)

All right, so Big show more your calls on the Mets at 1-800-919-3776. At 4:00', clock, Lindsey Barra is going to join us. She of course, is the granddaughter of Yogi Berra. And to celebrate Yogi's 100th birthday, they've got something going on over in Jersey she wants to be able to promote. And a lot of, you know, I know her from her coverage of hockey when she used to be over at espn. But of course she's been amazing being able to keep the memory of Yogi alive. So she's going to be joining us. Coming up at 4:00', clock, the Thursday rewrite at 4:30, Enns at 6. It's Don Hahn and Rosenberg until 6:30. Then it's Mets baseball here on ESPN New York more Mazda buyers choose Ramsey Mazda during the Mazda Move More to move you sales event at 1.9% APR financing on a new 2025 Mazda CX50. No payments for 90 days or lease for 239 for 33 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2974 lease details Vin SN 319033 MSRP32785 0 security deposit APR $17.48 per 1000 financed ends 9225. This is an ad by BetterHelp. These days it feels like there's a vice for everything. Cold plunges, gratitude journals, screen detoxes. But how do you know what actually works for you? With the Internet and information overload about mental health and wellness, it can be a struggle to know what's true and what actions to take. These days, using trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help to help you break through the noise. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1 point million client reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10 off their first month at betterhelp.com timeout. That's betterhelp.com timeout Valspar Ultra starts at just 29.98 a gallon, so we've got you covered when your daughter wants to paint her room again after last year's masterpiece of a unicorn mural.

Rosenberg (25:21)

Dad, please.

Don Hahn (25:23)

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Rosenberg (26:11)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

Don Hahn (26:14)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Rosenberg (26:16)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don Hahn (26:24)

Football is back and ESPN New York is kicking off the season with an NFL Watch party for the opening night division matchup between the Cowboys and Eagles. Join Bart Scott and Chris Carlin on Thursday, September 4th at 8pm at Calandra's Italian Village in Caldwell, New Jersey. I've been there. The food's really good. Not too far from New York City right off the highway, Route 46. Hang out with Bart and Carlin. Catch all of the action. Enjoy drink specials, $5 margaritas, giveaways and mouth watering food from Calandras. It's the perfect way to celebrate the start of the season. Reservations are recommended. The NFL Season Kickoff Party with bart and Carlin September 4th at 8pm at Calandras in Caldwell, New Jersey. Be there. I might swing by. Not. That's not that far from Moms say.

Rosenberg (27:15)

Hello threatening to make an appearance.

Don Hahn (27:17)

Why do you say it that way?

Rosenberg (27:19)

I just. I might stop by.

Don Hahn (27:21)

Well, because I don't want it because I just went through this with the sasso softball. Okay.

Rosenberg (27:27)

Oh, boy.

Don Hahn (27:27)

Where I'll be there. So if somebody says, hey, I might swing by, I know that's no. I treat it as a no. That way I'm not disappointed.

Rosenberg (27:38)

You ever see those, like it's translated when you say something and then what it really means. So yeah, I might stop by. And then like in parentheses says, no chance I'm showing up. Right.

Don Hahn (27:49)

But I'm not going that far. But I'm just saying I'm covering myself because there's a lot of days between now and September 4th, and I don't know what's going to be happening. Right. That's Thursday. That's next Thursday. That's a week from today. A lot, a lot can happen between now and then. 1-800-919-3776. You want to talk about some Mets? So Carlos Mendoza, after the game Last night on McClain's impressive outing, I can.

Carlos Mendoza (28:14)

Say it's w that was super impressive. He dominated one of the better line, best lineups in the league. You know, he made it look easy. Everything about the kid, you know, not only what we're seeing on the mound, but just the way he carries himself. He's got electric stuff, but he's got pitch ability. He know what he's doing on the mound. He knows how to manipulate the baseball. He knows what hitters are trying to do to him. He's not afraid to use all of his pitches like he pitches today. You know, when he's behind, he's got the ability to spin the ball and get back in counts. He's not afraid to challenge hitters. Like, pretty impressive.

Don Hahn (28:47)

And what has he brought to the rotation, Carlos?

Carlos Mendoza (28:49)

It means a lot. You know, we've been missing that type of performance pretty much a whole year. And here we are, we gotta go as a team knowing that when he takes the baseball, you feel pretty good about your chances. You know, that's a really good feeling. He tells everyone in that room that, I'm here with you guys. Let's go.

Don Hahn (29:05)

You know, I've kind of said a lot there. I've really been proud of, of Mendoza down the stretch here because listen, he's a. He's a Boone clone. He Came from the Yankee organization. He skews positive just like Boone does.

Rosenberg (29:20)

Yep.

Don Hahn (29:21)

But down the stretch here, Alan, he's giving you little hints, little words, little things where you're like, you know what? There is a subtle difference to where I can believe that maybe it's not all positive. Behind closed doors, he'll spin negative. But if you really listen between the lines, he says a lot of things that I think challenges his team.

Rosenberg (29:42)

It's a different directive. You can tell, because Stearns talks the same way. I think they want that little twinge of competition for jobs. I think they want that. So they're like Stern's. What was that? We had a quote from him the other day where he started neg. He started with criticism and then turned it into a positive at the end. But it started with, like, a pointed criticism. And I feel like that's. That's kind of their way versus the Yankee way, which Cashman, again, will always be very careful. And they just don't want. Like I told you I've heard, and I think other people have said this, the directive with that organization is to not pile onto what's already existing in New York, which is the Yankees, and pressure and criticism from the outside. And they don't believe that players should also have criticism from the inside publicly, because it only just piles onto the. The idea of wearing pinstripes in New York.

Don Hahn (30:43)

Now, again, I'm. I'm just talking from somewhat of an educated guest place. I know a lot more, I think, about the inner workings of the Yankees. Working with Michael for so long of the Yankees are very, very collaborative. You'd always hear the Tampa people, you know, and then there's Brian and. And Hal. I don't think Hal is as involved. Like, he obviously writes the checks, but I think he really relies on Brian to kind of run things. And I think. And I think Boone's part of that process because there's been other managers under Cashman. You saw the way Joe Girardi did it. Boone does it a different way. Handling it, where this is how the Yankee collaborative want things to be, not knowing the inner workings of the Mets. But it does feel different in this sense. Is there a collaborative or really, is it three people? It's Cohen, it's Stern's, and it's Mendoza, and it's Stern's way. Cohen is a little bit more involved in the sense of, no, no, no, I want Alonzo back. We're bringing him back. Yeah, you know, or, hey, I've got the money here. Let's Throw more money at Soto, where Hal I think kind of relies on Brian a little bit. We did see Hal came in with Judge. Apparently he was the one that wanted Teixeira in 2009. So Hal does get a little bit more involved. But I think Cohen is sitting on all this money that I do think. It's like, hey, listen, David, I understand that you want to be a little frugal, but we don't have to be. You see that big tower behind me? That's all the money I have. I think somebody told me that if you were to take $100 bills, a million hundred dollar bills, I think it piles up to your knee. Right?

Rosenberg (32:29)

Okay.

Don Hahn (32:30)

A billion hundred dollar bills is like three Empire State buildings. So he's got how many Empire State buildings on top of each other? So we've see it. You can't see the top of it. But that's my money. So let's not get too crazy. Okay, so maybe we'll spend the extra couple of million dollars here. But I feel like I don't want to say Stearns has more control than Cashman, but I wonder if it's as collaborative and does that allow them to be. To be a little bit more pointed with their criticism, give them a little bit more leeway when it comes to the analytics of it all.

Rosenberg (33:06)

I think both Cohen and Sterns understand the fan perspective. Right. I think that's part of it as well. And I think Cohen is a little bit more of an owner that wouldn't mind that kind does feel like there is a place for. Again we say criticism because I can't think of a better word. But it's okay.

Don Hahn (33:24)

No accountability. How about accountability?

Rosenberg (33:26)

Accountability is the best way to put it. It's the best way to put it. And it's okay sometimes to admit fault, mistake, problems, issues and just attack them, face them, don't hide them. And that's been again, the contrast between two franchises when it comes to how they handled Alvarez versus how they handled Volt.

Don Hahn (33:44)

And you know, a great example of that, Alan, go back to before Stearns. When the Mets had to sell off Brody? No, when they had to sell off Verlander and Scherzer.

Rosenberg (33:55)

Oh, right. Well, didn't Stearns do that?

Don Hahn (33:58)

That was just. I thought that. Well, there were a lot of people thought he was pulling the strings from Bob. He was still in Milwaukee, I believe.

Rosenberg (34:03)

But he moved out of that front office position. He had to wait a year. So technically, what to do.

Don Hahn (34:09)

Yeah, that's what I always felt. Even though that would be illegal because I think he was still under contract with the brewers at the time.

Rosenberg (34:14)

He was a special advisor for.

Don Hahn (34:15)

But here's the thing. And I remember getting into it with Michael at the time. Michael was like, why would they do it? It's still early in the season. You know, they spent a lot of money on these guys. You should see it through. And I remember thinking at the time, no, this is why you want. That's why Cohen here is better than the Wilpons. He's eating a lot of the money. He moved those guys. That's how they got Acuna.

Rosenberg (34:36)

Yep.

Don Hahn (34:36)

Right. I'm moving them. This isn't working. I'm pulling the plug. I'm eating the contracts. I'm trading. I'm going to try something back for them. Because the day that Cohen bought the team, he said he wanted to win. But he also said he wanted to rebuild the minor leagues. He saw an opportunity. He admitted the mistake. I signed these guys. It was a wrong thing to do. I'm buying myself out of it because I've got the money to do it. I'm going to replenish my money and I'm going to take a knee on the season because I know it's not going to work out. Yankees wouldn't have done that because they don't admit mistakes that often. Right. And they don't like. Because they've got way more invested. See, that's the other difference between the Mets and the Yankees. And that's why I do think sometimes the Yankees play this game because they feel like they're already winning. There's 46,000 people in the. In the stadium all the time. Yes. His ratings are great.

Rosenberg (35:25)

So that's what I keep hearing.

Don Hahn (35:26)

They keep. They keep winning. The Mets don't have that luxury. Allen. Bad seasons for them. They're not. They're drawing flies. That's why nobody's watching, because they're not the New York Yankees in that sense. And Bo and Cohen and Stearns are trying to change that by trying to build some stability up and to win. So they make different decisions than the Yankees would. And I think Cohen admitting he made a mistake was something that you wouldn't see. Brian Cashman, do you see it with Volpe? Sometimes they're stubborn to a fault. And I think that's the difference. And I think that lends to the accountability of. I am not going to stick with a bad contract. I'm going to admit I'm going to make a mistake if I've got a guy that I think is somewhere and he's not where he's supposed to be, then I'm going to put somebody else in there. I do think there, at least on the surface here, feels like there's more accountability around the Mets than there is the Yankees.

Rosenberg (36:13)

Yeah. And that's okay. And even humility, too. Just again, admitting, yeah, that didn't work. Yep, that didn't work because we have had over the last couple of years, I mean, Galloway, the Gallo. I mean.

Don Hahn (36:26)

Joey Gallo.

Rosenberg (36:27)

Yeah. And the other name, that's Ellsbury. Yeah. Just every year there's always that one player that we all know this ain't working. This doesn't fit. And it's almost like they have to exhaust it before they finally admit that it's not working.

Don Hahn (36:44)

Yeah, exhaust. There's the stubbornness of. No, no, you don't get it. It's gonna work until the world. This will work.

Rosenberg (36:50)

We just have to give it more time. Just give it more time. That's the problem, is that it doesn't. While the Mets certainly are an analytics organization, it doesn't feel like that they are driven by that. That's the part that I think is the most important thing to differentiate between the two franchises. They do both follow numbers. And that's why I was asking before, when it comes to like, whatever playoff series they get into, and we all know McClain is the goods, but if the numbers told the Yankees that, oh, he's not a good matchup for this, this lineup or whatever it is, would they not start him because of that? And say our numbers know better. And the Met's like, no, my eyes tell me this guy's freaking good. We're starting him.

Don Hahn (37:30)

And the stubbornness. We're talking about this. Jake played this. And this has been making the rounds, obviously because of the Volpe struggles. Brian cashman Back in 2023, when Volpe killed it next, kills it next year, come back to me. Remember the whole thing. Listen, when Volpe crushes it offensively this year for us, you'll say, hey, man, I guess you're the best. Development program, did a good job. And it was just. It was just sea legs under him. His first maiden voyage year with not much triple Lander's belt.

Chris Carlin (37:57)

I mean, at the deal, it's pretty basic.

Don Hahn (37:59)

All right, so there's that stubbornness now. This was 2023. He ended up hitting a grand slam home runner in the World Series last year. But it's gotten worse and worse and worse. But he's thinking, I don't want to Admit that I'm wrong and he's going to be my shortstop. And sometimes it gets the better of them.

Rosenberg (38:14)

Is that Cashman's downfall? Overall, probably the biggest downfall for him is his lack of any humility whatsoever. The fact that he could never just be normal enough to say, yeah, it didn't work out, this isn't working. Like to just know right away. No, no, no.

Don Hahn (38:31)

Well, because when you're going by the numbers, Alan, it's like the numbers said and unfortunately the wrong number came up and we're going to move on.

Rosenberg (38:40)

Just be human for five minutes in this situation. Like he's, he does a lot of really good things outside of baseball. Like he's not a terrible human being when you see him act the way he does about his decisions and his roster. Cuz obviously he knows he hears everything. The amount of criticism he takes, he probably gets crushed even internally by some people who aren't happy. So he deals with that a lot. But that to me is the biggest fault that he faces is just for once just be like, yeah, we thought this would work, but this is not just be human, this is not working. We gotta do. We had to make this move and we got to get it right. But we screwed that up.

Don Hahn (39:16)

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Chris Carlin (39:27)

That's not a question, but I need a whole wardrobe to go with it.

Don Hahn (39:31)

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Chris Carlin (39:40)

Online and in store.

Don Hahn (39:47)

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Rosenberg (40:42)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Don Hahn (40:45)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Rosenberg (40:47)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don Hahn (40:55)

As I drive into work today, I've got signs all over, like Route 18, the turnpike. Rutgers football tonight. Because there's gonna be tons of traffic. Me trying to get home is a six o' clock start. So I think everybody will be in the building by the time I get into my neighborhood. But Rutgers football does kick off tonight against Ohio. And the voice of Rutgers football, and you can hear him on our air as well with Bart Scott, is the great Chris Carlin, and he joins us here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. How are you, buddy? You excited?

Chris Carlin (41:30)

I smell tailgate, so yes.

Rosenberg (41:33)

Oh, wow.

Chris Carlin (41:34)

Smelling. There's not a better smell to start a season than tailgate. Like the hot dog smell that is coming into this press box as we speak right now is off the charts. And I feel like I want to be one of those cartoon characters that just. They smell it and then they just kind of drift off toward it. You know, I could see that happening.

Don Hahn (41:58)

I could tell how excited you are about the food.

Rosenberg (42:01)

What's the go to?

Don Hahn (42:02)

Yeah, if you were out there, what would you be?

Rosenberg (42:04)

What's the Rutgers go to? Tailgate food.

Chris Carlin (42:07)

Well, there's not a Rutgers tailgate go to, per se, but it's ribs. It's all. It's everything that you want it to be. It's burgers, it's dogs. I'm a simple man, Alan. I really am. It doesn't take much to please me. So if you just shovel whatever you got on that drill down my throat, we're going to be fine. And I do mean shovel.

Rosenberg (42:31)

Listen, Carlin's corner table suggests otherwise, right?

Don Hahn (42:35)

Yeah, you should do a Carlin's corner table with the tailgate. Who's got the best tailgate?

Chris Carlin (42:40)

You know, I've been thinking about that, and that's a heck of an idea. And I've been thinking about it ever since you brought it up five seconds ago. And I think it's a great idea. I think I should do it, and I think it will do it this fall. You know, we got a storyboard. This whole thing.

Don Hahn (42:56)

Don, I'm a North Jersey guy and as are you, and. But you know, you've been doing Rutgers football, and I've been living in central Jersey now for the last 20 years, and. And it's really important to people down there. You go anywhere and just our stickers on everybody's cars. And it's a big deal. And every season, hope kind of springs eternal that they'll recapture 2006 and. And all that. I mean, so what's, what's the feeling going in here to this 2025 season for the Scarlet Knights?

Chris Carlin (43:27)

I think this is going to be a really entertaining team to watch. This is going to be a team that's going to score a lot of points. You've got two young receivers from Long Island, Ian Strong and K.J. duff. They both went to St. Anthony's Allen and both set records at St. Anthony's and these guys are just huge and dynamic. And then they brought in a transfer from North Texas who was an All American this past year, named DT Sheffield, who's going to be a slot. And they're going to cause a lot of problems, like they can make plays down the field. And I think the best part is, like, they have some consistency at quarterback, which has just eluded them for the longest time. Ethan. Callie Manis had a very good year last year when he transferred in for Minnesota, and he's just got full command of the offense, and this is his team. He's done a really good job of, of just taking control. So I think you've got a team that's going to score a lot of points. They are young on the defensive side. I am. They called it a work in progress. So what does that mean? I mean, I think it's something that they brought in guys who are aggressive, good pass rushers via the transfer portal. So we'll see if that kind of translates. I think that's going to be incredibly important.

Rosenberg (44:53)

See, Carlin knows how to speak my language. St. Anthony guys, so that's. Right away. That's. You know how to get there. You know how to get me watching.

Chris Carlin (45:01)

I do.

Rosenberg (45:02)

You know, like, that's all I needed to hear. A couple of Friars out there trying to help out the Scarlet Nights. We're all in.

Chris Carlin (45:09)

You're going to see these two guys. Yeah, they're monsters. They're absolute monsters. And they can fly. KJ Duff is 66 and Ian Strong is 6 4. So I think you've got. And then go up and get the ball, too. I mean, I think that's. That's the most impressive part of it. They're good contested catch guys, so I think this is going to work well for them offensively. And they've got a relatively cohesive offensive line coming back that guys who have played a lot so what is this?

Rosenberg (45:42)

Like, think about it. The Big Ten, like this, the state of college football has just gone through such a transition. Can you. Like, what. Where is Rutgers in the bucket at this point when it comes to a Big Ten? That is how many teams now? And, yeah, and the travel everywhere. And, like, how difficult is it to really be able to build a winning program in a conference that big with that much competition against those kinds of brand names and, you know, be as competitive as Shiano's? Like, he has done it before, but as he's trying to get them to.

Chris Carlin (46:22)

It'S a. It's a taller climb. There's no getting around that. I mean, last time when he got here in 01, the talent level was probably at 1aa, FCS level, and in five years, they were able to get into the top 10 and close to the top of the Big East. This is much different. This is much taller. Now they have moved from the bottom of the Big Ten into the middle of the pack right now. So it's about taking that next step. And, you know, going into the. Going into the season, I think they're pretty optimistic about it. But last year they had. Because of the 18 teams, the schedule really shifts a lot. And they did not have Michigan and Ohio State and Penn State on the schedule last year, but they had a ton of injuries, and that. That killed them. Ohio State, Penn State are back on the schedule at the end this year. So, yeah, I mean, you know, you've got Oregon coming here this year, but, you know, there's a lot of teams still in the middle that you're competing with and trying to climb over, and you feel like they're in a pretty good place with that, with the way they've been able to recruit.

Don Hahn (47:32)

But have you felt the Shanno Effect, that there are players around the country that want to play here because of him?

Chris Carlin (47:43)

Yeah, I think so. I mean, the. The recruit, if you. Just to give you an idea, if I look at, like, the recruiting base of what this is now, this used to be New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, South Florida. Now it's everywhere. Like, when you're in the Big Ten, you're everywhere. So I'm looking at the offensive line. You got Florida, you got Westfield, New Jersey. You got Colorado, you got Ohio, you got the Island. Like, we were talking about DT Sheffield from Mississippi. You know, the starting running back is a guy named C.G. campbell, C.J. campbell from Louisiana, to answer your question. I mean, it's a different footprint now. So, yes, it's more of a A national brand. Listen, let's be clear. I mean, the most important thing that ever happened was that they got into the big ten. That had to happen. You had to be one of those Power 4 conferences. And, and they got in and that plays a huge role for them.

Don Hahn (48:45)

Talk to Chris Carlin, one half of Barton Carlin. Then of course, on our air every day between the hours of 10 and 1 and everything gets back to work on Tuesday, buddy, summer's over. So what are you most excited about as we usher in kind of day one of the radio schedule here the day after Labor Day? What are you most looking forward to once we hit September 2nd?

Chris Carlin (49:09)

Well, somebody texted me today, a friend texted me today and said, listen, if you're at a loss for what to do or what to say tonight, just think what would Bart say? And then I thought, Alan, like, all right, well, that would get me fired in seconds. So I'm really looking forward to the day to day grind of trying to stay employed.

Don Hahn (49:32)

Yeah, that's right.

Chris Carlin (49:33)

Keeping your own accountability.

Don Hahn (49:35)

Just.

Rosenberg (49:35)

Yeah, Hanging on.

Chris Carlin (49:37)

It's a, keep your, keep you on your feet kind of challenge it really.

Rosenberg (49:40)

Yeah, Chris. See that's the what, what I love a lot of times is that I'll randomly just text Chris like one or two lines just to hang in there.

Chris Carlin (49:51)

Yeah.

Rosenberg (49:52)

Or I remember like, and he, he doesn't even just he not like we almost nod at each other without speaking, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like you got, you made it way to fight through.

Chris Carlin (50:05)

And now I just, I don't even try to dodge it anymore. I just look at him and say, what do you want me to say? That's just it. Because everybody out there. And I have to say though, if I was listening, I would really appreciate that sort of real awkwardness. I would really appreciate listening to that.

Don Hahn (50:30)

And you can get that awkwardness every day for three hours. 102 01, right here on 880 ESPN. Listen, I know you really get look forward to this every year and I'll be listening and enjoy yourself, man. Have a great season and I will see you next week.

Chris Carlin (50:46)

I'm looking forward to getting together with the two and a half of you for sure. Yes.

Don Hahn (50:50)

Later on. We're on the same wavelength.

Rosenberg (50:52)

We love you, big man.

Chris Carlin (50:54)

Is that half based on the size or contribution? Sorry, I gotta go.

Rosenberg (50:59)

All right, take care, buddy.

Don Hahn (51:01)

That's why we love Chris Garland. He and Bart on 10 to 1 every day, Monday through Friday.

Rosenberg (51:08)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

Chris Carlin (51:26)

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