Hour 1: NFL Parity & Steve Gelbs

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: NFL Parity & Steve Gelbs

Date: October 14, 2025
Podcast: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg (ESPN New York)
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Special Guest: Steve Gelbs

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Episode Overview

This lively first hour centers on the ongoing unpredictability in the NFL—what the hosts call true "parity." The trio analyze surprising outcomes across the league, debate the appeal of relegation (as in European soccer), break down which teams are real contenders, and make time for highly entertaining sports banter. They also welcome Steve Gelbs (SNY Mets & Jets coverage) for an incisive conversation about the state of New York sports, particularly the Jets’ and Mets’ troubled seasons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Parity: Nobody Knows Anything Anymore

• The Problem with Predictions

  • The group bemoans how notoriously hard it is this season to pinpoint strong teams, as presumed juggernauts, like the Bills, keep faltering.
  • Alan Hahn (04:25): "Guys, it's November 1st. We can make our Super Bowl predictions. We do not know. Are you telling me we're sure... we're sure who the Giants are?"
  • Don Hahn (09:56): "Now you're telling me the one sport I do have where the regular season is supposed to matter, it matters, but not until Thanksgiving. So my 17-week season—I gotta wait until like week nine before I have to care?"

• Bills and Other Underperformers

  • Detailed breakdown of the Bills' recent struggles, including surprising losses to the Patriots and Falcons, raising questions about their status as AFC favorites.
  • Don Hahn (03:59): "They've just lost two games in a row to the Patriots and the Falcons... on national television after losing to the Patriots, you'd score more than just two touchdowns in Atlanta."

• Relegation: A European Import for American Sports?

  • Playful but thoughtful debate on whether the drama of relegation (bottom teams being sent to a lower league) would work in the U.S.—with Don vehemently opposing the "copy Europe" mindset.
  • Don Hahn (07:00): "We do it different here. In America, we count the clock down... we like to score, we like lead changes, we don't relegate."
  • Peter Rosenberg (07:23): "It really does put pressure on you to not stop trying... forces you."

2. “Relegation Game” and Sorting the NFL

• Hosts simulate their own "relegation," rapidly eliminating hopeless teams

  • Teams relegated: Jets, Titans, Saints, Dolphins, Browns.
  • On the bubble: Giants, Cardinals, Ravens, Bengals, eventually adding the Raiders.

• Tier 1 Conversation

  • Remaining "must-watch" teams are whittled down, with an argument about who actually deserves to be seen as contenders. Notable skepticism about the 49ers, Eagles, and even the Colts, despite their records.
  • Don Hahn (18:19): "Eagles in tier one? ...Not right now."
  • Peter Rosenberg (18:56): "My tier ones right now...Washington, Detroit, Tampa. Only one AFC team, and that's Buffalo. Despite what we've seen..."

• Questioning Team Records

  • Hosts drill into each team's point differential and win quality, often using contemporary performance rather than history.
  • Don Hahn (20:06): "Don’t you have to put the Patriots there? They've got the same record as the Bills, same net points, same point differential. They beat the Bills."

3. The Past Still Shapes Our Instincts

• Consensus that reputation and past success make it hard for fans, media—and themselves—to accept new realities.

  • Don Hahn (22:06): “What we've come to is that football was the one sport where every game is so meaningful… but we don’t have a clue. And everything we're basing things on, let’s be honest... is based on the past.”

• Discuss the impact of reduced preseason, with Hahn noting how lost preseason time now affects early season play quality.

  • Alan Hahn (23:38): "It makes me appreciate how valuable the preseason once was... now it's amazing how much it affects the season."

4. Listener Calls: Comparing the Bills to the Yankees (29:09)

• Caller Brian offers an analogy:

  • Bills (Allen/McDermott) are like the Yankees (Judge/Boone)—loaded with star talent but unable to get over the championship hump.
  • Don pushes back, noting coaching impacts NFL outcomes more than in MLB:
    • Don Hahn (29:09): “I could say the Bills aren't winning the Super Bowl because of McDermott, because when he goes up against Andy Reid… it's a mismatch.”

• Discussion about Buffalo’s window and whether a coaching change is necessary, with questions about realistic high-caliber replacements.

5. New York Stadium Woes & Fan Morale

• Discussion about dwindling fan turnout for Jets games as the season spirals, with lighthearted jabs at stadium atmosphere.

6. Guest Segment: Steve Gelbs Joins the Show (43:33)

Highlights:

• Nicknames and Hockey Talk:

  • Spirited exchange about hockey nicknames—“Gelbsy”—and why they stick in the sports world.
  • Steve Gelbs (45:07): “I played hockey last night. I'm in the local men's league now. The good news to report is that today was the first day I could walk [after]... but two games ago, got a little out over my skates and scored a goal, had an assist. Also got into a little bit of a fight in men's league.”

• Mets Season Autopsy

  • Gelbs details the disappointment of covering a talented but underperforming Mets squad, and the inevitable shakeups to come.
    • Steve Gelbs (46:51): “The weird thing about this is that not only was it a really talented group, but it was a great group of guys… You didn’t necessarily want this group to go out that way.”

• Pete Alonso's Contract Future

  • Gelbs doubts Alonso lands a 7-year deal, suggesting the more likely result is 4–5 years given the league’s current approach to aging, one-dimensional hitters.

• Jets’ Season So Far: Hopelessness and Apathy

  • They discuss the pervasive sense of futility around the Jets—“not just anger, but apathy”—and how glimmers of progress have been snuffed out almost weekly.
    • Steve Gelbs (51:12): “You don't want apathy. That's where it gets really dangerous. And it does feel like we're spiraling towards that... I just wanted to see something that looked like progress. And at times it's looked like it's going the other way.”

• Jets’ Mishandling of Rodgers/Fields/Wilson

  • Long debate about the fallout from moving on from Aaron Rodgers, organizational dysfunction, and how “committee decisions” at the Jets' top have left the team leaderless and adrift.
    • Don Hahn (64:17): “But your pivot was terrible. Can we at least admit that you get rid of Aaron Rodgers, who's balling in Pittsburgh, and your pivot was to a guy that can't throw down fields that you have zero trust in…”
    • Peter Rosenberg (64:42): “The problem continues to be at the very top. There is no real leadership... Instead of one person, one voice, one way—we're doing this so we don't go deeper into the suck—but where are the Jets?”

7. More Listeners and Devils Hockey

• Don shares his new Devils signature broadcast call:

  • Don Hahn (69:02): “Five seconds ago, centering pass off skate. Put a pitchfork in this one… their first victory of the season.”

• Quick NHL/Devils talk, Jack Hughes’ slow start and optimism for the Devils’ depth.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On NFL unpredictability:

  • Peter Rosenberg (05:13): “If there was something to vote for in North American sports, would it not be relegation in all of our four major sports?”
  • Don Hahn (07:00): “Is this so wrong to just say, you know, in America, we do it different here?”

• On how team reputation clouds judgment:

  • Don Hahn (22:06): "...everything we're basing things on... is based off the past."

• On fan attendance tanking:

  • Don Hahn (36:01): “I would be shocked if that place is more than half full. I think it's going to be half...”

• Gelbs’ nickname origins:

  • Steve Gelbs (44:31): “You grow up in hockey culture, which we all did, it’s gotta be Gelbsy. There’s no such thing as Steve.”

• On organizational dysfunction with the Jets:

  • Peter Rosenberg (64:42): “There is no real leadership. They are making committee decisions... Instead of one person, one voice, one way—we're doing this so we don't go deeper into the suck—but where are the Jets?”

• Don’s new Devils call:

  • Don Hahn (69:02): “Put a pitchfork in this one... their first victory of the season.”

• Steve Gelbs’ son, the pragmatic Rangers fan:

  • Steve Gelbs (59:17): “He looks at me and he goes, is there any chance they're playing the worst team in the league anytime soon? I said... they play the Sharks next Thursday. He's like, yeah, let's go see the Sharks.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:55 – Opening banter about NFL parity, Bills, and karma.
• 03:37 – Recent Bills/Falcons/Patriots games dissected.
• 04:25 – Uncertainty and predictions around top NFL teams.
• 07:00 – American sports culture vs. European relegation debate.
• 09:56 – NFL regular season value questioned.
• 12:32 – "Relegation Game": Eliminating hopeless teams.
• 18:19 – Contender tiers—debate over Eagles, 49ers, and actual AFC threats.
• 20:06 – Are the Patriots the new sneaky power?
• 22:06 – Why reputation clouds judgment of current standings.
• 29:09 – Caller analogizes Bills and Yankees; coaching impacts.
• 36:01 – Debate over Jets stadium being deserted.
• 43:33 – Steve Gelbs joins: hockey nicknames, men's league adventures, Mets autopsy begins.
• 46:51 – Gelbs on covering the Mets' disappointing season.
• 51:12 – Gelbs on Jets: "apathy," missed opportunities, and futility.
• 69:02 – Don debuts his Devils “pitchfork” call.
• 71:10 – Final Devils/NHL player praise and wrap-up.

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Tone & Style

• Dynamic banter with plenty of quick-witted humor and friendly ribbing.
• Deeply New York flavored—mixing sports analysis, cultural commentary, and inside jokes.
• Unfiltered frustration and honest appraisals of local teams, mixed with sports nostalgia and the warmth of broadcaster camaraderie.

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Summary Takeaways

• The NFL is pure chaos this year. Despite seven weeks in, nobody has true confidence in any contender—past performance is proving to be a weak predictor.
• The show's ongoing “relegation game” is both satire and a sharp method of clarifying which teams are out of the running.
• Don, Hahn, and Rosenberg continue to be skeptical of importing European sports conventions—relegation, naming conventions—while treasuring the unique quirks of American sport.
• The Jets are a case study in dysfunction, with the hosts and Steve Gelbs connecting the dots from owner egos to ineffectual pivots at key positions.
• Segments on sports nicknames, stadium atmosphere, and children’s fandom provide lighter moments, keeping things fast-paced and entertaining.
• Steve Gelbs’ guest spot offers grounded insight into the emotional and professional tolls of covering disappointing teams, and the persistent hope embedded in New York fandom.

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For those who missed this episode:
You’ll come away with a clear view of the NFL as a chaotic, hard-to-read product this year; get schooled on why franchise inertia is so hard to snap; and delight in classic New York sports radio banter—including a memorable, deep-dive into sports nicknames and the trials of modern Jets and Mets fandom.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

Talk about stepping up.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

I want you protecting my blindside and Rosenberg.

[Alan Hahn]

When I was seven, I was riding shotgun and smoking cigarettes.

[Don Hahn]

This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is Don, Han and Rosenberg.

[Steve Gelbs]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

880 ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, sure.

[Don Hahn]

We all said, oh, the Bills are going to the Super Bowl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course they are.

[Don Hahn]

We all said it. Parody, man. The NFL.

[Alan Hahn]

At least I can feel.

[Don Hahn]

Good question.

[Alan Hahn]

Because Don started. Don started checking a win for my team, and at least I went. Let's.

[Don Hahn]

Let's see what happens tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Bad conditions there, but your team looks really good. I don't care what.

[Don Hahn]

You know what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm so glad you said you look good.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm so glad you said that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just quick question for the room.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's the bill's record since they said, let's go Blue Jays.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you think that, you know, killed him?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm just saying. Karma.

[Don Hahn]

Oh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Into New York's team.

[Alan Hahn]

I just need a moment. I've been quiet all day long.

[Don Hahn]

That's not true. You were very social during the meeting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Quiet all day long. It just.

[Don Hahn]

It was the tail end of the.

[Alan Hahn]

Meeting about the commies. I mean. I mean, like I. When this happened last night. You know what it's like. You stay up all night. You all your. Wait, do you still. Do you wait up all night for Monday night or you call your rowdy friends.

[Don Hahn]

No, you call your rowdy. Sorry.

[Alan Hahn]

So my rowdy friends are. Was sleeping my. My baby. Right. And she didn't put on an outfit yesterday, which I think is why we lost. Um, it was in the wash in the last game. Okay. So I gave her.

[Don Hahn]

You have eight days.

[Alan Hahn]

I know. It's my. That's my bad. No, that's my fault. All I could do is.

[Don Hahn]

You weren't even here. It's not your fault. It's Natalie's fault.

[Alan Hahn]

All I could do is.

[Don Hahn]

You were on the other side of the planet.

[Alan Hahn]

I put the little. We have a little. The commander sent us when she was born a little Like a. You know, they have this facta mascot, Major Tutty. He's like a. He's like a little pig. He's like a little pig in the jersey they trot out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You see the commercial where it's like, try the porg and show the mas.

[Alan Hahn]

She slept with Major.

[Don Hahn]

So this goes back to the Hogs, I guess. Right. So where does. What's Tutty?

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know. Touchdown. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, my God. Trying too hard, bro. I'm.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm understanding.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a. That's a Dan Orlowski line. So I was.

[Alan Hahn]

So. I was on my own. I was on my own last night. Natalie fell asleep early. She had a headache. Oh. And the reason.

[Don Hahn]

You know why? Because she came back. I know.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, trust me. The reason. The reason that those games are so hard when you're sitting there at the 43rd and 13 minutes left and you just mentally. I pump my fist and I'm like, wow. We toughed out a hard fought victory at home. Bad weather. They 13 point. We spotted him 13 to start the game. Man, we came back. What a great win. And then you see the ball come out again. It's just the most frustrating feel. Who am I gonna be mad at? Daniels, who took complete ownership, who after the game goes, it's no one's fault. It's my fault. I don't care about weather. I'm paid to catch the football. I dropped the football.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so I was like, how mad can I get? But he threw his first pick of the year. Okay, what do you want me to do? You just have to eat the loss and. No, it's so frustrating. In this game, you had a chance to take first place and now we're sitting at three and three.

[Don Hahn]

But the reason I bring it up, because it was, you know, everybody was talking about those games and the shock that the Bills lost to it. Right. The Falcons aren't a bad team, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

We were wrong on the Falcons. Obviously we missed something on the Falcons.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's what we missed. That their defense is.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Really good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's how we missed.

[Don Hahn]

If the Bills are the class of the afc, which they.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They.

[Don Hahn]

They claim to be. Which I thought maybe they still are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think you're crying.

[Don Hahn]

They've just lost two games in a row to the Patriots and the Falcons. Now the Patriots and the Falcons are better than we thought. Yes, but you would think on national television after losing to the Patriots, you'd score more than just two touchdowns in Atlanta. So they raised an eyebrow. I mean, they gave up how many yards on the ground? I mean, that's not what you're supposed to do. And then. All right, after the Lions with all their injuries and they put up a bit of a stinker in Kansas City.

[Alan Hahn]

Guys, it's November one. November first. We can make our super bowl predictions. We do not know. Are you telling me we're sure. We're sure who the Giants are? The Giants are.

[Don Hahn]

I don't. We're not sure anybody is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We don't know who the Eagles are. We don't know. We're starting to think, oh, there is the Chiefs. We're starting to think, oh, there they are.

[Alan Hahn]

Starting to look that way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There they are. We just had to wait for them. They did. September is our preseason on us.

[Alan Hahn]

Are the. Are the Panthers the worst team in the league? I don't think so.

[Don Hahn]

You're saying Panthers could play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The worst team in the league resides.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, we know this. Sorry, I didn't. I was counting. The jets is not in the league. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

[Don Hahn]

They've been relegated.

[Alan Hahn]

That was. By the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what? If there was something to vote for in North American sports, would it not be relegation in all of our four major sports?

[Alan Hahn]

It would be so compelling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you're one of the worst five teams, you don't. We don't get a chance to win a lottery, pick for somebody's. For a great player.

[Alan Hahn]

You're out, you get relegated, you get sent down. Imagine how compelling it makes the second half of the season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, my God.

[Don Hahn]

When you're fighting, just imagine if your team does get relegated. You talk about checking out.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, my. Well, I don't know, though. Would you. You'd fight the next year. You'd Hard to get back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why? Does it work in Europe?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. By the way, they never lose interest in that in their sport.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But there's some. Wait, you brought up something very interesting that I've been saying for years. All right, we got to stop with, well, it works in Europe. I don't know why it works in Europe. The. These are different people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What?

[Don Hahn]

They. Their sports are boring. I'm gonna be honest with you. Their sports are boring. Oh, well, no, listen, I'm sorry. I find soccer boring, all right? I appreciate Formula one, all right? I do. And I'm dying to go to a race. I do watch Formula one because it's pretty amazing. The speed. But they never pass each other. If the cars even touch, they both explode.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

At least, like in NASCAR. There's 30 lead changes and a car could crash into the wall and still win the race. Right. But compared to that, like, Formula One is boring because they never pass anybody. It's soccer with wheels. Like, there's no lead changes. You know, there's one goal in soccer, there's one lead change in Formula One. I don't know what's going on in rugby. They're all like kind of hugging each other. It's. It's.

[Alan Hahn]

If you move over to cricket, forget it completely.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If he's going cricket, they're going to.

[Don Hahn]

Play for four days. No, wait, that. Isn't that a foul ball? No, he hit it behind him and it still count.

[Alan Hahn]

But that doesn't mean certain pieces of those sports couldn't work it out.

[Don Hahn]

What it means is we do it different here. Is this so wrong to just say, you know, in America, we count the clock down. All right. We like to score. We like lead changes, we don't relegate. I don't want to hear. Well, they do it in Europe. If I hear they do it in Europe, that's the exact reason not to do it.

[Alan Hahn]

But relegation would be appealing in some cases.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It really does push, put like pressure on you to not stop.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. They're not just intentionally shot you of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All people, forces you.

[Alan Hahn]

You're the anti tanking guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I am anti tanking.

[Don Hahn]

So this is. I just wanted to jump what you said. I'm open to the relegation conversation. Oh, I'm just saying I don't want to hear. Well, that's what they do in Europe because I don't want to hear what.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They don't want to play that.

[Don Hahn]

Because if they. It's. I'm good. I don't want to hear it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Don Hahn]

That's why I get sick. I'm not even a soccer fan, but like mls, everybody's going to United in fc. Why are you trying to European it? Americanize it. Come on, wave the flag.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it hasn't worked for soccer, so they're trying to figure it out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, they did that with like some other league and that didn't. What Misl. Remember that?

[Don Hahn]

I'm just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or whatever it was called.

[Don Hahn]

I just wanted to take exception to something. Peterson. Well, they do it in your.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think I'm the one who said that you can attack me.

[Don Hahn]

I want to, because. But he was on board.

[Alan Hahn]

That is very.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just in an attacking mood today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

By the way, what unfortunate positioning for Windhorse. You can't stand near Bobonovich. That's Why? That's just not what you want to. You got to get away. Wind Horse run. You got. Wind Horse needs to sprint away, guys, by the way, never. I will now, guys. I'll walk off the set. You try to put me near someone over 6, 8. How tall. How tall is he?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, he's 7, 7 1, 7 2.

[Don Hahn]

There's a lot going on there. You know what?

[Alan Hahn]

He's towering over Kendrick Perkins.

[Don Hahn]

Run to Zoom because you look good on Zone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you had that.

[Don Hahn]

If you had three shot of those guys with one shot with those three guys and then you had Winhorst on.

[Alan Hahn]

A Zoom, it's such a great point. If you just go have him stand in the other room and go hop on the camera, we'll box you. You're separate. You're good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So is it a new song? No longer Wind Horse at Sea. Now it's Windhorst on Zoom.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Wind Horse on Zoom. But I love the idea of that.

[Don Hahn]

But you guys are talking about something that. It's just so nauseating.

[Alan Hahn]

What we've seen.

[Don Hahn]

We've seen it in all the sports, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What did he do?

[Alan Hahn]

That's tough with baseball.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, it's too soon. We go. You got to wait until at least Memorial Day or the All Star break or in some cases September before you know what's real, right? Basketball, Hockey. Forget about it. Those seasons are so long, it doesn't matter. Football was the one sport where every game mattered. And now it's like, nah, listen, we're going into week seven. We have no idea if anybody's good, but it's still early. Don't worry. Detroit will get their secondary back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They'll do this.

[Don Hahn]

They'll tighten that up. So now you're telling me the one sport I do have with the regular season supposed to matter. It matters, but not until Thanksgiving. Oh, that's so my 17 week season. I gotta wait until like week nine before I have to care. And then. And people actually, actually think it's a good idea. Let's make it 18 games. Dave Rothenberg. Oh, I love 18 games. No, it's the worst thing because it's happening now with 17. What's going to happen with 18? Wake me up in week 11.

[Alan Hahn]

It's going to extend it even further. That's right.

[Don Hahn]

Now some teams are better. The jets are done, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, okay, Tennessee's done.

[Don Hahn]

Tennessee just fired their coach. So obviously you could have 100 game season and it's not going to matter for some teams, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Miami might be done, but to be.

[Don Hahn]

Sitting here, still like it. Like it doesn't matter until we. You said November 1st. That's two months into the season.

[Alan Hahn]

I think that's the realistic. You'll have a real gauge of.

[Don Hahn]

Like.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, I think. I think I come. I'm frustrated. My team lost last night, but to Alan's point, I know who they are. They're a pretty good football team when the defense gets better and defenses do take time to gel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

First of all, they were going down to win that game. The conditions led to what was a bobbled snap, which was a bobbled handoff and a turnover. That was unfortunate. But if you watch that game all game, guys are having trouble catching the ball, holding on to the blanket. That was not like an isolated situation.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But when he's got the talent around him. Oh, my good Lord. Hurts in the middle. Forget.

[Don Hahn]

And you have the benefit because it looks like the Eagles are broken. The Cowboys aren't very good.

[Alan Hahn]

They're broken.

[Don Hahn]

But four and two, and it's not about this year for the Giants. Right. So.

[Alan Hahn]

But again, the Giants can get pesky.

[Don Hahn]

They'll get pesky when you play them because it'll be here. And maybe the Giants have figured it out way better than they did with Russell Wilson in Week one, that's for sure. But they're not winning this division. All right, now, Philadelphia might be able to get off the mat. There's talent there. Dallas, I don't think will, because I don't think Dallas is. But a win could definitely put you in a situation. But again, it's another instance, Allen, where if the Giants had just found a way to hold on to that game in Dallas, if they didn't turn the ball over against New Orleans, if they're sitting here. Three and three, three and three. Even you couldn't. You couldn't ignore them in this division.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That part's real. But there's still a lot of season left for them to still make up for those. If you. If we can't predict who the favorites are, how about we work backwards? Let's cut. Let's relegate our. Let's do it ourselves.

[Alan Hahn]

I love what you're doing here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's play the relegation game right now. Who's out?

[Alan Hahn]

So start. You want to start in the afc?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because what we want to do is we want to whittle down the pool to teams that we think are in the mix, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you wanted the smallest number possible to be legit it. So to do that, we've got to kill.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm Ready?

[Peter Rosenberg]

How many?

[Alan Hahn]

All right, so get Miami and the jets out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. Jets are relegated. You want to. Want me to write this down?

[Alan Hahn]

These are just teams. We don't need to think about this year. Jets are out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Relegated. Jets. Titans, 1 and 5. Fired their coach.

[Alan Hahn]

The Dolphins were 1 and 5. Let's stay in the division. Dolphins are out.

[Don Hahn]

They're 1 and 5.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was just going to go from the worst record to the league.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, okay, I'm looking across each team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. I'm just going straight up from the bottom. So let's just take the bottom. Let's cut the bottom out.

[Don Hahn]

Start from the bottom now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're here. Yeah. Jets out at 06. Titans out at 1 and 5. Saints out at 1 and 5. Dolphins out at 1 and 5.

[Don Hahn]

Yep.

[Alan Hahn]

Brown.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Brown.

[Alan Hahn]

Ravens.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Browns. Ravens.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're ready to put them out?

[Alan Hahn]

I'll give them another week. If they can get it to 2 and 5, we could have a conversation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Because that division could still be had.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the cutoff is five teams have been relegated already. Out of the 32, five are out.

[Don Hahn]

You know, I'm not relegating either of them, but I would relegate Cincinnati before Baltimore.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, me too.

[Don Hahn]

I think Baltimore's got a chance to get up Cincinnati.

[Alan Hahn]

Cincinnati's 2 and 4, but they will get. If they can split a cup, they can get a couple wins here. They get the kid back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, that's the thing, is you almost. Now, if you're the Bengals, you're just trying to tread water enough until Joe comes back.

[Don Hahn]

Good news.

[Alan Hahn]

They do have the jets in two weeks.

[Don Hahn]

I think that's it, though. I wouldn't relegate the card.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that's it. So we have 27 teams still relatively alive with the Ravens at the very bottom of that pool, Right?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. Giants are at 2 and 4 like they're.

[Don Hahn]

They deserve.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're a good week away. Again, Denver just showed you that they do have some things about them that feel beat a bill. Beatable. Right. And they're coming back from London. Yes, you do have to go to Denver, but still, that's a lot. They've done a lot of, like, kind of bouncing around that. That. That team. All right, so that's a big game. So you would have to change our mind next week.

[Don Hahn]

So you have. So you have Jets.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got five.

[Don Hahn]

Titans, Saints, Browns, Browns.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Those are five out.

[Don Hahn]

So five out under consideration. Giants.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so bubble, bubble, bubble. Teams.

[Don Hahn]

Giants, Giants, Cardinals.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Good call on that.

[Don Hahn]

Ravens, Bengals. And that's it.

[Alan Hahn]

Look how weird this is. Don, I'm here on the. I'm here on the ESPN sports page and I clicked on the commander. See what they have next week. Look, look.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What?

[Alan Hahn]

Look.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, they get a little better help spot with Peter's face.

[Alan Hahn]

Is that now. Is that custom made? Because it's. It's my computer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's yours. It's your suit.

[Alan Hahn]

There's a better help ad, and there's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's pretty cool.

[Alan Hahn]

A picture.

[Don Hahn]

And it even has your name for people maybe don't know what you look like.

[Alan Hahn]

What is it? I sent it to you last week. But it's so it's like a locally. I'm guessing it's a local thing that will pop up digitally correct if you're on espn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Also correct.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, got it. Okay.

[Don Hahn]

No, I think it's more photo of me, though. It's more regional than it is. Peter just logged on. Please send him.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, no, no. No picture.

[Don Hahn]

So it looks like it's working.

[Alan Hahn]

Be really sad if you. But if you guys go, let me know if you see me. Okay?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Texans Cowboys at two and three. Cowboys two, three and one.

[Alan Hahn]

No, you can't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not bubble.

[Don Hahn]

Not bubble.

[Alan Hahn]

No, not. We know that they stink.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so we got four in the bubble, right? Which leads us to 23 now left.

[Alan Hahn]

That are actually playing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now we can really start to decide who's who. And out of the 23, like, I'm still saying Washington needs to be in the. In the. In tier one.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, I'm not going to fight you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even though they're 3 and 3.

[Don Hahn]

Your.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Chicago show you something with what Ben Johnson's got that offense looking like?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, they're feisty team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's a resiliency about them.

[Alan Hahn]

And Swift is really good. I mean, they have a real back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There, so he's great.

[Alan Hahn]

And I'm still. I'm still figuring out what I think of the quarterback, like what level, what table I think that kids end up at. But they're not a bad team. They're taking a step forward for sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Vikings, I don't know. We don't know how to feel about them.

[Alan Hahn]

No. And I haven't gotten to watch them at all, so I really don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then going through it like 49ers historically, they tell you, yeah, they're always in the mix, but the eye test tells you.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Always. They always.

[Don Hahn]

They've had injuries, but they're always hurt. True. But injuries might be a reason. So. You know, Brock Purdy is supposed to be their starting quarterback. And if he's. If he's healthy, that's a team that can win the division. I think all the teams.

[Peter Rosenberg]

San Francisco.

[Don Hahn]

It'S hard to put them in tier one just because.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Eagles in tier one?

[Don Hahn]

No, not right now.

[Alan Hahn]

But how are they not. They're still. They play two bad games, but they're four and two.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're bad games, though.

[Alan Hahn]

They're bad games. Look, they're bad. Unfortunately for Gam, they're recent.

[Don Hahn]

You do realize the Giants are barely functioning. We're excited about the way that the.

[Alan Hahn]

Kids have played, but no, they beat them bad.

[Don Hahn]

But the Giants have a long way to go and the Giants beat them pillar to post. I mean, if Philadelphia played a really good team, they would have lost by 40 like they were just now. Maybe they didn't play because it was the Giants and they own the Giants. I get that. They probably give a better effort if they're playing the Bills or the.

[Alan Hahn]

What about this, guys? Let's dive into this a little further with you. Eagles, Week one, that bizarro Cowboys delayed game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Alan Hahn]

They won that game. But nothing happened.

[Don Hahn]

Everything changed after.

[Alan Hahn]

So they won that game 24, 20. Then they beat the Chiefs, who we knew turned out to stink for a month by three. Then the Rams game that they 100% should have lost.

[Don Hahn]

Right. That was the game it was a block pick for.

[Alan Hahn]

It made no sense. They won. Then final possession, eke out a win against the Bucks, and then they lose to the Broncos and giants, giving up.

[Don Hahn]

17 unanswered points in the fourth quarter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

A Bronco team. Granted, it's in London and the jets defense isn't bad. But what scored 13 points against the Jets.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, not a great offense at all.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, you've got to give respect to Philadelphia. A, they're in first place. B, they're the defending super bowl champions.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Don Hahn]

But clearly when broken gets thrown around, it's hard to say, oh, but you're still an elite team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Having team meetings and all that stuff. So my tier ones right now and tell me who I'm missing. I got Washington, I got Detroit, I got Tampa. Those are three NFC teams. I only have one AFC team, and that's Buffalo. Despite what we've seen, I still think that's. Look at the afc. Give me the other afc.

[Don Hahn]

I've seen a lot of the Chargers recently. Watched every second of that game Sunday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Steelers, who you buying?

[Don Hahn]

And the Giant game. Chargers are not lead team. Colts, they're 5 and 1.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But are you buying?

[Don Hahn]

I Can't do it. I can't. I can't do it.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, by the way, you'll get to see them together this week. Can the Chargers Colts winner be considered a real team they play this weekend?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

You're still not going to believe it.

[Don Hahn]

No. And what if I charge the Chargers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Net net differentials, too?

[Alan Hahn]

Hold on. Do you know? Do you know? Real quick, just a quick update in case you haven't been paying attention, kids. The Colts wins this year in their impressive record are the Dolphins, the Broncos.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, that's good.

[Alan Hahn]

That's good. The Titans, the Raiders, the Cardinals. They have beaten the absolute garbage of the league.

[Don Hahn]

I. If you forget about last year, forget about your preconceived notions. Okay. Take a look at point differential.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Don't you have to put the Patriots there. They've got the same record as the Bills, same net points. I was thinking about that same point differential. They beat the Bills.

[Alan Hahn]

I know. They found a quarterback, and I don't.

[Don Hahn]

Think it's fair to say. Well, look at what Buffalo's. Forget about history. We're talking about now. We're living in the now. It's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's.

[Don Hahn]

How does. How. I'm not comfortable putting New England there. But how do you not put them there for the Bills there? Well, what other criteria are you going to go by?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Also, by the way, you brought up a team that I forgot that I think should actually be put in the bub on the bubble, and that's the Raiders.

[Alan Hahn]

Really?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're really not very good, but there's.

[Don Hahn]

I love their coach, and I think they could figure it out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you don't want to put them on the bubble? Okay, the bubble.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, they're in the bubble.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's where I was going.

[Don Hahn]

We only had four bubble teams. The Raiders have to be a bubble team. I wouldn't put them in. And where else are you going to put them?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They got to be on the bubble.

[Don Hahn]

If you don't put them in the bubble, where are they?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's not tier one. Tier two?

[Don Hahn]

No, there's no tiers with the. With Vegas.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, there's not. There's a lot of tiers, but not that kind of tier. But tier one is like who we think could actually go to a Super Bowl. Who's good enough?

[Alan Hahn]

Also, you want to talk about the Patriots for a second? Patriots, schedule wise, they're at the Titans this week, then home against the Browns. You could basically jump them in all to six and two. They can very likely get to six and Two.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Which is super. And then their home Falcons, which I don't know what to say about that anymore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's going to be a tough one. You know, the thing is with Patriots, they're not a good home team. Haven't lost on the road yet. But. No, it's just. But what we're, the exercise we're doing here is the fact that in the past we have bemoaned the fact that it just is always the same teams and the Chiefs are always going to be there and all this stuff and.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm worried they still will.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is the true parody. And you know what the funny thing about parody is? When you have. When everybody's equal, the team that has the most experience in winning usually comes out of it.

[Don Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because the other teams that might be at that same level don't have the winning experience to fall back on when it comes to playoff games. It's.

[Don Hahn]

But what we've come to is that the football was the one sport we had where everybody game is so meaningful. We are now through six weeks of the season. There's 11 games left. All right, we're not quite to the halfway point, but we're way past the quarter poll here and we don't have a clue. And everything we're basing things on, let's be honest, let's be honest, is based off the past. Well, Bills. Well, I think Bills are going to Super Bowl. All right. Well, they haven't looked good over the last two games, but you know, we know the history. Same thing with Kansas City. Kansas City's not looked good. But you know, Kansas City will figure it out because they always figure it out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

But if you just look at what you are now, Steelers, Patriots, Colts, the standings of the standings. Bill Parcell says it, you are where your record says you are, but we won't buy it because of the pass. When did the Colts ever win? When did the Patriots win? Since Belichick left Steelers, they're not supposed to win this division. They got a 42 year old quarterback. Supposed to be the Ravens and Bengals battling for this division. This is the reality, but we don't buy into the reality because of the past. And then the past will show us that these teams will wake up. So now we played six weeks, Peter, and other than the jets who buried themselves, we don't know anything. And it really kind of shows you that even in football it's too early crazy to say. And you want to add games. That's why I'm saying you want to Add games.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. Isn't it funny too? When I watch preseason in years past, I thought what a complete waste of time this is. And then they remove a preseason game and we get to the era now of protecting players in the preseason. And it makes me appreciate how valuable the preseason once was. I thought. I thought it was nothing, Don. They would play only the third game and maybe maybe a half of the second game, the entire third game, maybe a quarter of the fourth game. You remember when that was the case. Then it's been whittled down and now it's amazing how much it affects the season.

[Don Hahn]

It's crazy. But this is what we have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Game time is brought to you by. Tell them our new Irish whiskey because when it's game time fell.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like when he holds it.

[Don Hahn]

Rangers host the Oilers coverage immediately following us on 880 at 6:30. National League Championship Series Game 2 coverage is on 1050 at 7:30 and will be on 880 following the Rangers coverage. Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore do response.

[Alan Hahn]

I gotta blame Jacob for that. Jacob is the one who brought us back in with the Beautiful lady by d', Angelo, but then also is the one who decided to play the 11 second Don screaming over the song. You know what I mean? You gotta, you gotta pick your battles here.

[Don Hahn]

Well, his mistake was the song because he always leads the first tullamore.

[Alan Hahn]

It always has to be with that.

[Don Hahn]

With the long one. So.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, so maybe you should have went Devil's pie or something more uptempo by D', Angelo, who by the way, we lost today. Just 51 years old, which is just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I did not know that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you didn't know yet?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What?

[Alan Hahn]

They don't know yet? Oh, no, they do. I think they said private battle with pancreatic cancer. D'. Angelo. D', Angelo, one of the coolest artists of our time and so insane to see him die so young when obviously one of the things almost to a fault he was. Talked about his. His looks almost too much because he's such an iconic artist. But that voodoo album cover and the untitled video with him naked in it made him such A sex symbol. But it's such a weird thing to have someone who's all you think of him as is being so physically fit and he passes away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, because pancreatic cancer doesn't care. I don't think how fit you are. But he was Don, I don't. You've ever spent any time with his catalog? No, but he only has two albums. They are both just masterpieces. I mean, he's just like one of those dudes who. Alan. It's like he should have been in a different time. Like he happened to be in the 90s. He could have been the 60s, 70s.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah. No, no, that he had. He was a sole singer.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, he just popped up nowhere in the 90s. He was just special.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So Brown Sugar was the only one that I knew about that album.

[Alan Hahn]

You haven't heard Voodoo?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that. See, Brown Sugar, My Wheelhouse. Because that's college for me.

[Alan Hahn]

We know how college was for you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. So that song was like. That album was. I think I still have that cd, believe it or not, all the way back in the day.

[Alan Hahn]

But yeah, I actually knew Cruisin by d' Angelo before I knew Cruising by Smokey Robinson.

[Don Hahn]

Really?

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That happens.

[Alan Hahn]

The COVID was big, but yeah, Don, the album Voodoo is worth.

[Don Hahn]

I'll take a listen.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not. It's not. Whatever you might think. It's not. It's. It's a live music soul album that came out in the 90s, you know what I mean? But you remember the video, right, of him, like half naked?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Alan Hahn]

That was a big cultural moment.

[Don Hahn]

How come we didn't get naked in any of our publicity for this show?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's not too late.

[Alan Hahn]

Speaking of which, I got to tell you, I think I found an interest in pickleball.

[Don Hahn]

I've heard nothing but good things.

[Alan Hahn]

Have you watched what's on our screen? There's some. I think there's some things about it that seem tremendous.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, I thought you were actually legitimately talking about how it could be to play. You can be.

[Alan Hahn]

I am legitimately interested in the game because I like tennis. And it's a. It's a way to play tennis. But there's some fun stuff going on with pickleball. I think it's. I think the sports growing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I change seats with you?

[Alan Hahn]

There's some decent stuff happening as a culture.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Speaking of wheelhouse.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Right in my wheelhouse. Right in their wheelhouse.

[Don Hahn]

1-800-919-3776. Let's start the show off with Brian and Sleepy Hollow, you're on. Don Hanna Rosenberg on ESPN New York. What's up, man?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going? Speaking of like, your. The football rankings and everything, I wanted to make an analogy with the Yankees and the Bills, how they both have an MVP guy that probably should have won already and everybody thinks it's failure. You know, nothing short of a Super bowl or a World Series for him is a failure, is success. I mean, also, you know, kind of the coach maybe stated has been a little fail and it's been around too long. You can make that case with McDermott and Boone also that they kind of don't, you know, do enough to put them over the top. Like the. They had digs, the Bills, but they never had, you know, they after digs. I'm underwhelmed by their offense and I don't know, I just don't think McDermott's a guy. They should have gotten rid of him after the Kansas City game. What do you guys think?

[Don Hahn]

Well, it does feel like that's the last straw. Right? You've got the quarterback, there's talent. You're not winning. It's football. Change the coach. That's why I don't like the analogy with Boone. Yankees aren't not winning the World Series because of Boone. I could say the Bills aren't winning the super bowl because of McDermott, because when he goes up against Andy Reid. I'm sorry, it's a mismatch. Right. Andy Reid is such a good coach. And I think coaches in the NFL have more to say about the wins and losses than managers do in baseball. Can we all agree on that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, absolutely.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Don Hahn]

But I do see the comparisons like, when are you going to be able to get off the hump? Is Josh Allen the Aaron Judge? Although I think Allen's played well in the postseason, but he's not losing to nobody like the Yankees losing to the Blue Jays. And the Blue Jays go quietly into that good night against Seattle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a bad look.

[Don Hahn]

That's going to be a bad look. You know, the Bills usually lose to a team that ends up going to the super bowl or winning the Super Bowl. There's no shame in losing to Kansas City and no shame in losing to Mahomes. If the Bills kept getting ousted by the Houston Texans, then I'd say, you know, something's up here. I mean, you are losing to the best of the best.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Usually the team that goes on. Yeah, well, the problem is for him, they just can't beat the Chiefs when they do face them. Right. But, I mean, think about it. They've had stability there for a long time, not only with McDermott, but Bean's been the GM there for eight years.

[Don Hahn]

Right. No, they've been.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They have had stability, but they have had success. And, you know, you. What you got to feel like is like, I guess it sounds very similar to the Yankee mantra, is that every year you're a winning team, every year you're good, and you're just going to try to break through one of these years.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And just. But you just can't seem to crack the code on Kansas City. But it's. It's horses for courses. Right. Because Joe Burrow, who can't stay healthy, goes into Kansas City and beats the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

One year he was healthy.

[Don Hahn]

You know, Tom Brady, all of his wins, two losses against Eli Manning. It's like, it's. Sometimes it's just the matchup, and that's who they have to get through in order to get there. But if you tell me who's better, Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes, you'll say, all right, maybe Mahomes a tad bit. You ask me who's better, McDermott or Reed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's.

[Alan Hahn]

It's all. That's.

[Don Hahn]

It's not even close.

[Alan Hahn]

So there are multiple opportunities for them to move on from McDermott. I'm surprised they. They didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, you know what the question is, who are you getting that's better?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Who are you taking out?

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's who, like, who is available that you're like, this guy's better? Like, that's the thing with a team like that is you wait for an Andy Reid to become available or, you know, a Tomlinson. Like, you wait for somebody of that level that takes your team up a notch, because otherwise, if you just bring it in, you know, anyone, you're taking a risk on a inexperienced coach, even though we've seen some have success. You know, again, like, would you bring in a Harbaugh if the Ravens moved.

[Don Hahn]

On from John Harbaugh, if they just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Decided, you know what, this has gone on long enough into a Super Bowl. Is that a guy that you would. If every organization would say, I want that guy in, like, I want him taking over my fly organization.

[Don Hahn]

But you wonder, like, availability. All right, while. While McDermott's been the head coach, Sean Payton's become available, Jim Harbaugh came back into the NFL, would that be an upgrade?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peyton would be interested.

[Don Hahn]

John Story, but, like, would Jim even be an upgrade? Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, again, it's. It's it's especially a guy loves to run the ball the way Jim does. Yeah, I guess there were opportunities and they chose not to. But they choose with, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Where like again the example of the Knicks of yeah, they're winning but we think this can go farther and this is as far as he can take us. So we need the next guy.

[Don Hahn]

Now we've had, we've talked, you know, ridiculous amounts about how the Yankees may just could be content with their success. I, I don't think the Bills are happy not winning it. You know, I mean I think they really want to take. Unlike the Yankees, they don't have the win.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They don't have anything.

[Don Hahn]

You know, all they have is zero for foreign Super Bowl Jim Kelly. They want, they want it. That, that, that city needs it, man. Like they got a new Sabres are going, they're winless. They got, they got two professional sports teams.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, they don't. They have one. Oh, did you see what's going on? They're already like burning jerseys and stuff up there.

[Don Hahn]

They care so much but now they're close to just being. They don't draw anymore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a great hockey market. Not a good one.

[Don Hahn]

No, it's great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You've been there. I've been there. I've been there when they had good teams there and I've been there when that building was packed. Yeah. And it's intense a building as you could be in. But they have made, they have disillusioned that fan base to a point where like that's.

[Don Hahn]

And they know garbage when they see it because of, you know, because they know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you know. You know what's funny though that happens in a place like that and a franchise really is in desperate place. Right. Because you know, nobody's showing up, they're not getting support and anybody does go, all they do is boo and throw jerseys here in New York. The jets are garbage for 15 years and what are we doing? I'll pay a PSL. Sure, sure, why not? I'll pay it. Whatever it takes.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll drive from Long island to the meadow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll spend three hours of my morning just to get there and then three hours to get back for a three hour game.

[Steve Gelbs]

Sure.

[Don Hahn]

This might be the year where we finally see that come to an end.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Think about it.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, maybe their two home games have been the Steelers and the Cowboys. So the building's been full because of who's come into the building.

[Alan Hahn]

Fair point.

[Don Hahn]

Owen Said, when's their next home game? It's got to be coming up against the pants.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I told you.

[Don Hahn]

Home against the Panthers. Jeff, fans aren't gonna want to go. The Panthers don't have fans that travel. There might not be anybody in that building.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the only. That's.

[Alan Hahn]

That's this week. What is that?

[Don Hahn]

It's Sunday.

[Alan Hahn]

You have limited fall days, Don. You know what it's like with the kids in October, trying to get a day to go to the pumpkin patch. Trying to get a day to do something when the weather's still nice. They're. Now you want to throw that away.

[Don Hahn]

Their next two home games Sunday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Panthers, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

71 and sunny.

[Alan Hahn]

You want. You want to spend that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hell to the no.

[Don Hahn]

It's gonna look like the Princeton Ski Shop there.

[Alan Hahn]

And I don't understand the reference.

[Don Hahn]

Well, Alan did and laughed, so why can't you just play along?

[Alan Hahn]

All right. I just want.

[Don Hahn]

I want feel left because every once in a while, I don't know if they still do it. I don't think they did it at the old. The new play. At the old play, Giant Stadium, they would have, like, the Princeton Ski Shop. They would have, like, a big sale of ski stuff, like, in the stadium.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They use it as like a. That's like a car show.

[Alan Hahn]

Car show at the stadium? Yeah, like a Halloween warehouse.

[Don Hahn]

So you can imagine the stands for that. You know, there aren't 80,000 people watching people buy skis.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's like when an arena closes, they make it. Make it a flea market.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So all the bleachers, there's nobody up there wandering around the field.

[Don Hahn]

Back to back home games against the Panthers and Browns.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep. The only way to get the attention of an owner of a really bad franchise is to not show up. That's it. Flying planes. That's just annoying. Don't go.

[Don Hahn]

I would be shocked. People already bought these tickets. Even if you're not protesting, I would be shocked if that place is more than half empty. I mean, more than half full. I think it's going to be. I think it's going to be half because again, future teams you're playing. But it's always more than half full.

[Alan Hahn]

It's always.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, this is going to be.

[Alan Hahn]

So you think this is gonna be a noticeable.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, they do a good job with the different shades of gray seats to make it look like. Seriously, they did that. The old Superdome. You know why The Superdome had all the different color seats and make it look like people were there. When they weren't there. But it's gonna be noticeable. Dude, come on. Maybe they pull out 06 Panthers. It's a. It's a gorgeous fall day.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do they pull out the. They still keep those in storage. Remember the COVID cutouts?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

What did they do with them?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

They auctioned them off or something.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Mets did that? I got one for my mom. Yeah, I got. My mom was a cop at Citi Field. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Is that true?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Where is it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know. I went to get. I asked Gelbsy to help me and he said it was gone. They didn't know where. It went somewhere. It's a cutout.

[Alan Hahn]

Steve Gelzy. Yeah, that's the thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Steve Gelbs.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I guess if you're close.

[Alan Hahn]

People call Steve Gelbs Gelbs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I do.

[Alan Hahn]

What is he on the Yankees?

[Don Hahn]

Apparently the Boone would call him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know. You don't like that. Is that a problem?

[Don Hahn]

It suggests intimacy.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it's very. I didn't know you guys were that bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Intimacy. I hate to disappoint you, Gelbsy, but it's just. I consider him a friend.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I know. That's fine. I believe I should remember.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course I do.

[Alan Hahn]

What kind of friend would he be if he didn't have someone?

[Don Hahn]

I'm just trying to gauge how close we are. You know his address, you know where he lives.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What is this?

[Alan Hahn]

No home addresses. A lot.

[Don Hahn]

Wouldn't answer a lot of questions, Wouldn't he? He's not answering no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because this is getting ridiculous. He's a friend. I know, but I like calling him Galbsy.

[Don Hahn]

It's fine. I know, but liking calling him Gelbsy, which I don't see the attraction.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The guy. The guy has to sit through this whole jet season trying to make something out of nothing in a post game show.

[Don Hahn]

He's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's got it. He's got to have a halo over his head right now after what he's been through.

[Alan Hahn]

He's been through.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He went from the end of that met season into this jet.

[Don Hahn]

I'm gonna show you. I want to. I want to join the party. You know, I saw last night, Columbus.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go. Talk to me.

[Don Hahn]

I saw Mercy. Steve Mears, of course. He's the voice of the Blue Jackets. Used to be the voice of the Penguins. Used to work for the island. Used to. Used to work with the Rangers. Used to back me up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

Mearsy. I don't know where he lives. I do have his number.

[Alan Hahn]

We have his number.

[Don Hahn]

I know he lives In Columbus. I couldn't find his own. Met his. Got a 2 year old.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you intimate? Are you intimate? Are you gonna go there?

[Don Hahn]

I was not suggesting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you saw him. Did you guys have moment physical?

[Don Hahn]

I'm just meaning you're close.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, I consider him a close friend. But I think I needed something. He would be there.

[Don Hahn]

I only did it for the gag. I'm not calling him Mearsy right now.

[Alan Hahn]

Is Gelbsy.

[Don Hahn]

You don't call him right. You're referring to him as Gelbsy. When you see him, you don't go, hey, Gelbsy.

[Alan Hahn]

And you don't know if other people say it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't care.

[Don Hahn]

You know, Aaron Boone would say it.

[Alan Hahn]

He's right. But I don't know if anyone. I wonder if you're listening to your friends.

[Don Hahn]

Now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm super self conscious about this because I just. It's just a thing. I can't help it.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know, it's just interesting that Peter and I were both struggling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I am Yankee Allen. Yeah. I used to call Rick Dpietro. I used to call him Rico. Called him that all the time. That was.

[Alan Hahn]

I like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I discovered I was his nickname in college. But he never followed him to the NHL. They called him a lot of other things, but they never called him Rico. Like there was the fans. You'd say dp, stuff like that. But I would always call him Rico.

[Don Hahn]

Rico.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And again, it was always that. Like why you call him Rico? I don't know. It's just what I call him.

[Alan Hahn]

I like a problem. No, Rico, I like Gelbsy does suggest more intimacy though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, like it's a closeness.

[Don Hahn]

When you add like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's like he's made you both very uncomfortable.

[Don Hahn]

That's why you ever got remarried.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're a friend of mine. I. I probably will have some type of term of endearment for you.

[Don Hahn]

Delvesy suggests that he might be in the wedding party.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, what do I. What do I call you?

[Don Hahn]

You? They call me Donnie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but that's who else calls you.

[Don Hahn]

Donnie's different.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who calls you Donnie?

[Alan Hahn]

A lot of people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've never heard anybody call him Donnie.

[Alan Hahn]

Not a lot of people.

[Don Hahn]

Not a lot of people call me Donnie.

[Alan Hahn]

No, our listeners call you Don't.

[Don Hahn]

But not many.

[Alan Hahn]

Anthony. Anthony calls you Donnie. At least not at least about you.

[Don Hahn]

Anthony.

[Alan Hahn]

You ever call him Donnie?

[Don Hahn]

No, he's never done that.

[Alan Hahn]

He does. Maybe not to your face, but he does back.

[Don Hahn]

But I like Donnie. But Donnie's different. Take Don Donnie. Yes. Taking somebody's last name.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Donnie Pucks.

[Don Hahn]

But that's a different.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's different things.

[Don Hahn]

Somebody's last name and putting the. Yeah, the E. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or the Y.

[Don Hahn]

Funny. Like. No, because I. Because I was thinking Mike, because I. When I spelled Donnie, I spell it I E, Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Alan Hahn]

But Gelbs use a Y.

[Don Hahn]

Whatever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don't even know now.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. What are you gonna call me? Like, did you hear what. What'd he say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He said Breaky. Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Now let's get back to the busy phones and talk to Moose in Jamaica. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Moose?

[Caller]

What up, guys? Peter, by the way, Pete Gaines shout out to the show has come back. All reunited. You know, shout out to the attitude era of WWE and the Rock. I don't know how my impersonation was.

[Alan Hahn]

It was not great. It wasn't great. But I appreciate the effort.

[Don Hahn]

You do.

[Caller]

Nobody can do it like the Rock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All.

[Caller]

All I wanted to be was him when I grew up, you know. But besides that, I'm here to talk Giants. So when it comes to the game, I, I'm trying. This is not for betting purposes. This is a fan trying to see the resurrection of the Giants as a franchise. With the quarterback, the. The running back and the wide receivers injured. But he gained Denver top five defense, decent second year quarterback. They struggled offensively against the Jets. Who knows why? But this is the thing. If the jets had minus 10 yards passing as great as Jackson Dart has been. We're going to Denver. The high altitude, I don't know what the weather is. They have a really like shutdown corner. Great pass rush can stop the run. So. But I think there's like something that Jackson Dart possesses where he upsets the apple card. So I'm having trouble reading. Are we going to win? Is this going to be a dog fight? Is this going to be a back and forth fourth? Is this going to be. We get a lead. They. They come back or they. They come back. Your take on what will happen in the game because I think there's.

[Don Hahn]

There's an advantage and a disadvantage to this longer break. It's not a buy but close. Can some momentum be lost after beating the Eagles after waiting 10 days? But you do have Denver a little hangover coming back from London. I don't know. I. I can't Read it. I just want it to look good. Forget about whether they win or lose the game, guys. I just want the Giants to look good, look functioning. That. That means more to me than the actual wins. What also means more to me than that is Steve Gelbs. I think he's exceptionally talented and apparently he's fucking. Gelbsy and Allen are very close. Because I heard a Gelbs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You hear all the compliments being thrown around right now. Gelbsy.

[Don Hahn]

And he's listening and he calls in, hey, Steve.

[Steve Gelbs]

Or is it no, no, no to you it's Steve. But you know, Alan calls me Gelsy. That's my. My close personal friends. And I just want to make sure that you lay off him. You know what I mean?

[Don Hahn]

I. Listen, I thought we had a great time doing Rangers together. I think I. I guess we're not close.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look, hey, look what he's doing.

[Don Hahn]

And I wouldn't call you Gelbsy because I just think it's weird. But you know, I'm good with Steve. But other people call you Gelbsy.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yes. What's weird about it?

[Don Hahn]

Because you know what's weird about it? You have a two syllable, your whole name. Steve Gelbs. The entire name is two syllables. Why do we feel like we have to give nicknames to people? Bob Washusin needs a nickname, right.

[Alan Hahn]

And doesn't even have one.

[Don Hahn]

Right? Steve Gelbs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why are you looking? Why are you yelling at me?

[Don Hahn]

I don't get it. Steve. I don't understand it.

[Steve Gelbs]

No, you know what it is?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't have to.

[Steve Gelbs]

I mean, you know, if you grow up in hockey culture, which we all did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Steve Gelbs]

It's gotta be Gelsey. There's no such thing as Steve.

[Alan Hahn]

That makes it make sense. I didn't know Gelsy grew up in hockey culture.

[Don Hahn]

But I also didn't know that Allen and Steve, like, were line mates somewhere. But down the road they're two non athletic friends, you know, sharing a beer. You're not Gelbazy if. If you're dressing alongside each other for the big game.

[Alan Hahn]

That's just a good point. Lineman, if you will. Steve, you played. You played hockey as a kid.

[Steve Gelbs]

I played hockey as a kid. I played hockey last night. I'm in the local men's league now.

[Alan Hahn]

Where's the league?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's like nobody knows this guy.

[Steve Gelbs]

I mean, I got to keep that a little.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We don't want fans. No.

[Steve Gelbs]

But I will tell you this. So I haven't played. I have not played in the men's league since I started doing The Mets job. And so this last night was my third game. The good news to report is that today was the first day that I could walk after.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go.

[Steve Gelbs]

We're improving.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yep. But two games ago, I got a little. Little out over my skates and scored a goal, had an assist. Also got into a little bit of a fight in men's league.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Yes.

[Steve Gelbs]

So, yep. Had the Gordiao hat trick.

[Don Hahn]

It seems such a mild.

[Alan Hahn]

I love this for Gelves.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's it. See?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now he's earning them.

[Steve Gelbs]

While sitting in the box. While sitting in the box, I thought to myself, you know what? But you got to remember that there are people who know you now, so you gotta back off a little bit. But that Gelsey came out in a big way a week ago.

[Alan Hahn]

A lot of people don't know this. The craziest thing is the fight was actually with Meredith Morrokovic.

[Don Hahn]

No. Right back.

[Steve Gelbs]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Right up and at each other. Unbelievable.

[Steve Gelbs]

No, it's just some guy on the ice calling me Steve.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's it.

[Alan Hahn]

Calls me Steve now.

[Don Hahn]

I. I'm just. Listen, I. I think you are so talented. I'm so proud of you. Going from filling in for me doing Rangers and pre and post on the radio to just killing it on Sny Man, I couldn't be prouder for you. You're having such a great time with it, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Before you butter out, I just want.

[Don Hahn]

To know how tough was the way that this season ended for you. Seriously. I know it's a job, but you're in there every day. How difficult was to see the season end the way it did?

[Steve Gelbs]

Yeah, this is a tough one, especially because, you know, listen, we've all been around enough teams to know that there are certain times where you just, you know, the group isn't. Just isn't right. The mix isn't right. The personalities aren't great. And there are times where it's like, you know, you just kind of need this season to end. And the weird thing about this is that not only was it a really talented group, but it was a great group of guys and a great, great coaching staff. You knew that there would be heads that would roll, there'd be a lot of changes that were made. So I think that's. That's probably the most difficult part, is that you didn't necessarily want this group to go out that way, and you certainly didn't want the inevitable consequences that are going to come from such a disappointment to take place. So that was the hardest part for me. But you know, it was just, I still now, what are we, two, three weeks afterwards, still trying to figure out how and how it went wrong. What went wrong? You know, there's the obvious pitching issues and defensive issues and things like that. But you know, to me, this team still should have found a way in. And I really just, I cannot put my finger on how it didn't happen.

[Don Hahn]

Are you. Never mind. You are. You think the Mets would consider giving him a seven year contract? Alonzo?

[Steve Gelbs]

No. No, I don't.

[Don Hahn]

Why is he asking for seven? He's 30, going to be what, 31 years old.

[Steve Gelbs]

I mean, I think that that's, you know, they got to do what they have to do to get out. And I'm sure he would love a seven year deal, but you know, last year he had a settle for two. I would be very surprised if he got seven out there. But there will be a more robust market for him, no doubt about it. But I would assume that Pete's contract ends up somewhere in the five year range from someone. I don't, I really have a hard time believing the way front offices think right now that even as productive as Alonzo has been, that someone's going to give that type of term to, you know, a first baseman, possible dh, right handed power hitter. It just, they don't do it anymore. They don't do it anymore. And so seven years seems like a huge ask, but I wouldn't be shocked if it settled, you know, four or five years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you go from that into the jet season week, I mean, week after week. When I watch you guys, it almost is. I, what I need you to do next week is not have that look of surprise when you come on the air, like, I can't believe they lost that game. Like, when does that go away for you? Because it really has been remarkable. What do we count? Was it three of these games were like within a touchdown, like you were there but you know, like just couldn't finish. Like it's all we keep hearing, couldn't finish.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yeah, three of the game. I mean Pittsburgh, Tampa and this one were staggering. Tampa, not so much given the way they had played the whole game, but obviously after Will McDonald pulls off that magic trick, you think, all right, maybe they've got a chance. But yeah, this is, you know, I've said it, I've said it almost every week on Post game. The thing that's been most disappointing so far to me about this jets season is not the result we, nobody expected them to be a playoff team this year or make these huge win total strides. I just wanted to see something that looked like progress. And you know, so far we haven't seen it. And at times it's looked like it's going the other way. You know, you guys, I'm sure, have gotten into all the inexplicable decisions from this past week, but that's, that's all jets fans need to see. Connor Rodgers said it best on our post game show. He's, he's unbelievable. And he just said this. This season was just about regaining the trust of a fan base. And so far it's, it's gone the opposite way of that. So still plenty of time left. But, but yeah, it's, it's been a rough start, to say the least.

[Don Hahn]

You're listening to 8 80, ESPN, WHSQ and WCBS FM HD to New York. We're talking to Steve Gelbs from Snyder. Mets coverage, jets coverage. We were just talking about it, Steve. You know, home against Carolina, home against Cleveland. I just wonder. It's gonna be family and friends in the building. I mean, the energy is gone, obviously. And I did 16 years of jets and I've seen seasons where the jets were going nowhere and the fans were ticked. But worse than that is complete disinterest. And it feels like we're spiraling way towards that.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yeah, you don't want apathy. That's where it gets really dangerous. And it does feel like we're spiraling towards that. You know, it would have been last week, would have been so big on so many levels just to find a way to get the victory, to change the narrative, to change the feel, to get the fans a little more, just, just a little more to hang on to. And I think last week the more than just a win, it would have been that you could have said, okay, it's a win with some progress. We've seen a defense that looked absolutely abysmal the first five weeks finally step up and perform well. Last week we saw a special teams group that similarly has had so many issues, really do a lot of nice things to get the jets in good field position. And the fact that you can't even focus on that in any way, shape or form because of the loss and how they lost, it just makes it really difficult. And you look at this stretch of time now and you know, there should be, this should be the point in the schedule where the jets say, okay, this is the easy part of the schedule. We can rack up a couple of wins and we can build some momentum. But unfortunately, and again I said this on postgame too. You look at the other teams and they're looking at the jets the exact same way. So, you know, it's very difficult and especially now with Gary Wilson going out, I mean, that that wide receiver group is going to be really a sight to behold when he's, you know, so. So I don't know. Yeah, it's, it's. Listen, it's very difficult and you can only hope. I mean, Aaron Glenn keeps referencing, which we've criticized him for. He keeps referencing the first year in Detroit and they started 00:10:1. And you know, I think that, you know, those are different situations and you can't just assume that it's going to be that way because it was. But jets fans can only hope and pray that it will be and that ultimately Aaron Glenn is right about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it just feels like, you know, they made Justin Fields the guy, right? Like when Aaron Glenn took over, it was, it almost was all around the same time. You just knew that was coming. That was what all the rumors were telling you, that they wanted to target him, bring him in. They wanted to see if they could turn him into the next quarterback that, you know, gets a fresh start somewhere and discovers his talent. Like, you know, some other former Jet quarterbacks have, like, you know, Sam Darnold and Geno Smith, but others as well. And with that in mind, as much as fans, and I know you guys talked about it like it was a surprise and I think Connor said this on the post game. He was a very surprised that they didn't make the change at halftime when the way they went into halftime suggested maybe they didn't trust their quarterback and they figured, we have the ball to start the second half, we'll put out Tyrod Taylor. It does feel like they're married right now with Fields and they're not like, you know, Glenn didn't like the question in the post game of, I think it was Brian Costello that asked about it, like making a change of quarterback. Like, it just feels like if you're a Jets fan, you think there's going to be change. There probably won't be. They're going to stick with this guy.

[Steve Gelbs]

No, it doesn't look like there will be now. I mean, that being said, especially given the heat that the team's gotten this week for the decision making in Aaron Glenn specifically, if Justin Fields comes back out next week and looks that bad in the first half, I don't see how you can stick with him in the second half. But I didn't See how you could stick with him in the second half in London either. The weird thing to me about this whole situation with just Justin Fields kind of twofold. One, the reason that they not only targeted Fields, but, but kind of have, have been married to him so far is they talk about how they've built the offense around his skill set in particular, but if you watch them play offensively, they don't do enough to utilize what makes Fields different. You know, they, they drop them back like a, a pocket passer way too often rather than design runs or roll them out of the pocket and cut the field in half. So what they say about him doesn't really match up with how they utilize him. And I understand this week against Denver, you know, Denver's a defense that doesn't really let quarterbacks run, but that's kind of besides the point. It's been that way for a lot of the season. And then the second element is I don't understand why you have such a commitment to a guy like Justin Fields who is not, he was not your first round pick, that you're trying now as a rookie to develop and see what's what. There's enough tape out there to know that there's a pretty good chance this is what Justin Fields is in his third organization. And you know, he's, he's a guy that certainly is an athletic freak, but a very slow processor. And that hasn't changed. That hasn't looked any different. And so for me, if you're trying to really build a culture here like Aaron Glenn says he is, and you're trying to change the perception, it doesn't just start with, with winning games for your fan base, but I think it starts with doing things in the room that make the players that are out there busting their hump every day feel like they have the best option to win under center. And you know, if that guy is Tyrod Taylor and nobody is suggesting that this is, you know, Steve Young or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady sitting on the bench, but if Tyrod Taylor gives you the best chance to win, especially in a game like that over the weekend, you got to go to him, in my opinion.

[Don Hahn]

Well, speaking of best option to win, wouldn't that have been Aaron Rodgers.

[Steve Gelbs]

You know? Yes, on some level, yes. But I can't kill them for that decision. I, I think at the time there were a lot of reasons why. First of all, financially and cap wise, it would have been a disaster if they would have brought him back for what they would have had to deal with the next few years. It also felt, though, like there was a ton of friction with Garrett Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. And for me, especially given the fact that Rodgers last year, you know, the numbers looked good, but he. He didn't play all that well last season. If I'm choosing a quarterback at the end of his career that, you know, may have one year left versus one of the best wide receivers that, that your organization has ever had, as a young player, I got to go with Garrett. And you know, that to me was. Was the number one reason why you move on. So I understood it at the time. But yes, certainly you look now and you say, all right, yeah, he's got the Steelers right in the playoff line.

[Don Hahn]

You know, and it's not even that. It's just maybe we don't know how cooperative he would have been, but I would figure if he wanted to come back, he'd understand. I think he probably would be helping Glenn right now. Right. Experienced quarterback. Glenn's ballywick certainly is an offense. It's more defense. I mean, maybe he'd be helpful in this situation. We don't know. But you just talked about Garrett Wilson as maybe being the impetus of why they moved on from Rogers, probably why they're sticking with Fields. You just wonder have anything to do with competition or just, I want to make my wide receiver happy. And he's happy with Fields thrown on the football. Yeah, trying to.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yeah, that's a. But that's a harder question for me to answer. Not being in the room.

[Don Hahn]

Sure.

[Steve Gelbs]

And I don't really, you know, the one thing about Garrett Wilson, he does not strike me as a guy. He's a guy that's very competitive and, you know, clearly was frustrated with the way that game went and, and voiced his opinions post game. But he's not one of these, you know, classic diva wide receivers. Get me the ball at all costs and throwing people under the bus. I think he's as team oriented as it gets. But it became clear, and we did a whole thing on this last year on postgame about the differences with Garrett Wilson. Once Devontae Adams got there, it became clear that Aaron just had no use for Garrett Wilson as the season went on or little use, less use than he should have. And so again, for me, it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was.

[Steve Gelbs]

It just wasn't a great situation. And I understand why a coach would say, especially one who's clearly as confident in his abilities as Aaron Glenn is, would say, I want a clean slate. I want to start new. But again, in retrospect and Right now, if you're just looking solely focused on this season, would the jets be better right now with Aaron Rodgers over Justin Fields? Yeah, hard to argue that they wouldn't be.

[Don Hahn]

Steve, so proud of you, man. You're killing it on SNY with the football, with the baseball, and I hope one day, day we'll get to the Gelbsy level. But right now I'll just say, thank you, Steve. That's a start.

[Steve Gelbs]

You know. You know what, Donnie? I. I give that praise right back to you. And you know how much I love you and how much you helped me early on in my career. But I know how badly you've. You've wanted that devil's gig for so long and how it's a dream come true. So sad to lose you on the Rangers side, but thrilled for you and keep killing it. And I will tell you one other thing. I know when you guys were. Were introing me, you Talked about Connor McDavid being in town tonight and being around. Quick story as to. I don't know if you want to say my six year old son is brilliant or he's missing the point of this whole thing, but he's a big Rangers fan now. And I said, hey, you want to go to a game? We can go see Connor McDavid on Tuesday night. Best player in the world. And he looks at me and he goes, is there any chance that they're playing the worst team in the league anytime soon? And I said, well, yeah, they play the Sharks next Thursday. He's like, yeah, let's go see the Sharks. I said, you want to see them play the sharks over Connor McDavid? He goes, well, they'll beat the Sharks. They're not beating Connor McDavid because he.

[Don Hahn]

Wants to see a win. Good for him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a fan.

[Don Hahn]

That's a fan.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, you're developing a little family.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's not waste our time going to a game they might lose. Dad, let's see a dub.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yeah, that's it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Guaranteed wins. Because you know why? He watches you on tv, he's like, you know, every time I watch you, your team doesn't win. Can we go see some wins?

[Alan Hahn]

There you go. I like it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right. That's the reason why my kids turn into Nick fans.

[Don Hahn]

Kelsey, thanks a lot, man.

[Steve Gelbs]

You got it, guys.

[Don Hahn]

I wasn't sure he was expecting the inquisition we gave him, but he's so good. And I wanted to get the mess and the.

[Alan Hahn]

And the jets, they don't give these jobs to chips.

[Don Hahn]

Nobody probably Thought we were just going to have some fun with the Gelbs, he's saying. And next thing we know, we're going. You know, we're going right down all in New York sports. Don't miss my point on Rogers, all right? I'm not saying he. Who cares? A couple more wins, it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It's just that they were so adamant. And the things that Steve was talking about, about, you know, moving on and the culture, did it have anything to do with that or just, you know, we're done with this guy, get rid of him, he's out. And then we'll bring in somebody else in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you didn't believe me, you heard him say it. Aaron Rodgers made it clear to Garrett Wilson, you're not important to me. And for the jets, they looked at Garrett Wilson as a big part of their future. Okay, so which way are you going to go?

[Don Hahn]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's what they said.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not claiming, and I'm not claiming that he's a diva, but I think Fields didn't get pulled from that game because they didn't want to upset Garrett, and which it ended up upsetting anyway because he's yelling at the coach at the end of the second quarter. Again, things were being handled.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To be clear, what he didn't like was that they didn't run a play.

[Don Hahn]

I love the fact he did that. He was pissed because I want leaders to do that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What are we doing? Why do you want to play? He wasn't mad at the quarterback. He was mad at the play calling and how passive they were.

[Alan Hahn]

And he had every right to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they wanted in the second half. Let's open it up.

[Alan Hahn]

But why, real quick, why do we believe that he would think Field staying in the game is better for him?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, I don't know about that.

[Alan Hahn]

Because I would think there's a chance that once these guys play with Tyrod a little bit, they'll go, you know what? Let's keep Tyron.

[Don Hahn]

I just put the ball where it might not even be anything that Wilson has said. Maybe just the assumption they played in college together. Well, they got Fields for. I think they got Fields as a great pivot after what happened with Rogers to help Garrett Wilson, get him to resign here and make it work. And they want to try to make it work.

[Alan Hahn]

Speak everything you need to know about when teams try to bend over backwards for players. You could have spent $10 million, hit one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. He guaranteed $30 million to an absolute gibroni.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Also, respectfully, can I also.

[Alan Hahn]

But he's an absolute jabroni.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But can I also add, no one else wanted to come here. I continue to remind people.

[Alan Hahn]

You mean besides the head coach?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm talking about the quarterbacks, too. This is a toxic wasteland right now. No one in their right mind wants to come to this team and play. But anybody that's good.

[Alan Hahn]

Wouldn't that be all the more reason, you see if you can make it work with Rogers again. Oh, he seemed willing to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, once again. But it was already more toxic. They were trying to clean out some toxic.

[Alan Hahn]

I get it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can't get it all clean.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, I'm playing Monday morning quarterback. Obviously, I'm looking back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All of a sudden, I'm making excuses for a franchise I've been smashing.

[Don Hahn]

But I guess the reason I fight. Because you're right about everything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right?

[Don Hahn]

I don't want. I don't want Aaron Rodgers, who's not going to win that many more games anyway, going to be able to hurt my future great wide receiver who I just signed to a contract. All right? But come on, guys, you know, it had nothing to do. All it had to do with was we're. We're disgusted by how this thing went down, and we just want to. Woody wanted him gone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Fresh start, all right?

[Don Hahn]

And I really do believe that it had nothing to do with Aaron Glenn, whoever was going to coach this team. When they sat down in the interview, Woody said to him, listen, whatever happens here, we hire. You don't. Rodgers is gone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

And Glenn probably, like, I'm going to get on board with that because I want this job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right?

[Don Hahn]

But your pivot was terrible. Can we at least admit that you get rid of Aaron Rodgers, who's balling in Pittsburgh, and your pivot was to a guy that can't throw down fields that you have zero trust in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct.

[Don Hahn]

And you knew that nobody wanted to come here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And you couldn't have a conversation with Rogers, according to him. And maybe he's lying. Fly 3,000 miles away to come visit with you and say, hey, if you're going to be here, you got to help Wilson. Let's work this out again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll go back to what I've been saying about the Jets. The problem continues to be at the very top. There is no real leadership. There's no. What you're doing is being sensible, what makes sense for us right now. So we stay competitive and don't continue to fall into. Deeper into the suck. But they will. They are making committee decisions. And when you do that, you know what you're trying to do. What do you want to do? Because I don't want to upset the alpaca. How do we want to do this? You want to do this? Is that how you want to do. And that's the problem. Instead of one person, one voice, one way, we're doing this so we don't go deeper into the suck. But where are the jets?

[Don Hahn]

Does it all deteriorate?

[Alan Hahn]

You know what, you know what it sounds like listening to you both?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we need help.

[Alan Hahn]

It sounds like you both need better help.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We do need help.

[Alan Hahn]

So we'll get right back to this, about 52 seconds. But I need, I need 50 seconds.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We need this break.

[Alan Hahn]

Alright, October 10th was World Mental Health Day. And this year we're saying thank you therapists. Better help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct fully licensed in the US and BetterHelp, they do all the work, okay? They do the initial matching for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. You fill out a questionnaire super easy. They identify your needs and preferences and then they have all the experience and industry leading match fulfillment rates so they get it right the first time. It's that easy. They line you up with someone if 30,000 different therapists to choose from. And BetterHelp, of course is the world's largest online therapy platform. They've served 5 million people globally and it works. Alright, check the ratings out in the App Store. 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. Alright, so this World Mental Health Day we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can get you started on that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call pound 250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout. After calling pound two five zero. See Alan, you do that and maybe you find the right person to talk to about these jets problem. Because let's be honest, it's not getting.

[Don Hahn]

Better over because he's right. Allen's right. I think it all started with that loss in London last year. They come back, Salah gets fired. I really believe that Saleh got fired.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because he was embarrassed.

[Don Hahn]

Woody wanted to show everybody Rogers doesn't run this team. I do because Rogers wasn't going to act. Everybody said Rogers wanted solid fire. Rogers didn't want solid fire because he knew the dysfunction it would cause, the chaos it would cause. Letting a coach go in the middle of a season doesn't add a spark. But Woody's like, no, no, no. I run this team, not Aaron Rodgers. And from that day, it almost like Woody was out of the Aaron Rodgers business and he was going to get rid of the guy no matter what. So I'd love to have a conversation, guys, about, well, Aaron Glenn wanted this and when they were trying to do that, no, they all made, they all took ownership of that narrative. But the real narrative was Woody wanted him gone and he was gone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's also trace back what happened to the Jet defense after they fired Salah and made Ulbricht from D.C. to the head coach. He was over his head, a really.

[Don Hahn]

Good defensive coordinator and went right in the toilet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Now where did Jeff Ulbricht go? He went to Atlanta.

[Don Hahn]

He went to Atlanta? Yeah. He allowed 14 points to the best offense on the plan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he again, some guys are really good coordinators, not good head coaches. So you, this is what you did. You torpedoed your team by making that kind of a move because you had an ego statement to make. And by doing it, the only strength of your team, the defense went completely into the table so that by the time the end of the season came and Aaron Rodgers and his Achilles finally started feeling normal again and his numbers were halfway decent. Right. What happened to their defense? Garbage. All because you were embarrassed, your ego got in the way and you had to clench your fists and scream in your high pitched voice how mad you were and you weren't going to take it anymore. Congratulations. You played yourself.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, exactly. And now somebody got into Woody's ear to say, we're gonna, we're gonna preach patience now. See what happens when you got your fat hands involved. Look at the mess we made. Layout. They gave Glenn the five year contract. I don't think he's going anywhere.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't really either.

[Don Hahn]

Let's go to Jared in Manhattan. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Jared?

[Steve Gelbs]

Hey, what's up, Don? Big Devils fan and just want to say we're pumped to have you on the call. Nice win last night and loving the signature call at the end there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what?

[Steve Gelbs]

You mentioned it.

[Don Hahn]

I want to hear call. Let's hear it real quick.

[Alan Hahn]

Since you talked about it. We'll, we'll, we'll go right back to the second Jared. Here we go.

[Don Hahn]

Five seconds ago, centering pass off escape. Put a pitchfork in this one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

For a 53 win, their first victory of the season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He did it.

[Don Hahn]

He did it, and I got to do it. He did it, and I got to do it last night. I'm glad you noticed. I. Because I. I don't like to do that kind of stuff, but I thought, you know, why not at the end of a game if they win? You know, something that kind of ties to the Devils a little bit, not too crazy. So I saw. I asked. They're like, yeah, go ahead, give it a try. And I gave it a try.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You and I talked about this. You were hesitant, Jared.

[Don Hahn]

I talked about with Alan. I don't know. It's not about me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So glad you like it.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, they wanted my personality, so I tried it. People liked it. I did it. So when they win, stick a fork in. I'm gonna do it. Yes. Pitchfork. Anybody can stick a fork, but the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Devil sticks the pitchfork right in there.

[Alan Hahn]

I loved it. That sounded great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tremendous.

[Don Hahn]

Thank you, Jared. Real quick. Yes.

[Steve Gelbs]

Yeah, no, of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Real quick.

[Steve Gelbs]

And I know it's early, so. And we're, you know, we had a nice win last night, so I don't want to get too. Too nutty yet, but I think Jack Hughes looks about as bad as I've seen him play, you know, in the last few years. So I was curious if you had any thoughts. And like I said, I know it's early. He's coming off the surgery, but. But don't really think it's anything to worry about, but I definitely want to see him kind of get right in the next couple of games and just have one of those games where we see what he. You know, what he really is.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I know he has only got one point, doesn't have a goal, but I thought he did a pretty good job last night. I didn't see the final total, but at one point, he had four shots on goal. He had a really bad giveaway to Marchenko. That cost a goal, but he'll get it. You missed that much time coming back from a shoulder injury. I mean, you know, they talk about how long these camps are, but you only play a handful of preseason games. I think he's going to be fine. But I'll tell you this right now, he may not be the best player on the team. Nico Hecher's bulked up. He's got 20 extra pounds on him, muscular. He's really coming into his own. Mercer is a fabulous player, and the best player on the team right now might be Jesper Brat. He might be one of the top 10 players in the league.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

So listen, we'll see how it all comes out in the wash. I mean it's a long season and we all know how good Jack is and and when the stats that he has put up. But there's a lot of other really good players on this team. A lot of good players.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a good sign.

[Don Hahn]

Not to mention his brother too. Luke signed a contract, looked good after not having a camp. So lot to get into, especially talk about it Tuesday. It's coming up next.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but you know at every aspect of your business, everybody and this is something the jets might want to consider. From the most mundane to the most complex will operate orders of magnitude better and faster when you add artificial intelligence. Can you imagine? Imagine if the jets just went with artificial intelligence. Where would they be right now? AI is literally a race to the top. The companies that engage AI first will win. Will that be you or will you? Will it be your competitors? Thrive Managed AI is your advantage over all your competitors. It's founded by tech powerhouses. Thrive partners with you on smart and secure AI strategies for your business and then they deploy and manage it for you. Imagine AI solutions working across every part of your business. Automating support, powering chatbots, analyzing competitors, even managing billing, collections and orders. That's just a taste of what Thrive managed AI can help you achieve. It makes your talented team even better by letting them focus on what they do best. The race to the top will be won by those who Engage Thrive managed AI first. That needs to be you. Go to ThriveNextGen.com ESPN and get started with a complimentary strategy consultation. That's ThriveNextGen.com ESPN Thrive NextGen.com ESPN thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want to know how the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.