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- [00:04]
A
When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com Todd one day you're not.
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B
Gonna play football anymore. And if there's a God up above, it'll be soon. Hahn.
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A
Huge. No, but big. Yeah. And Rosenberg.
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C
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
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B
This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.
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A
This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg on 880 ESPN and the ESPN New York.
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B
App 300 one of the big city. Don Hahn and Rosenberg, a full frontal show T7O'. Clock. No, Peter, he might be stalling the plane to Perth for all I know. That's a long way. He's on the other side of the planet. So Alan Liger to hold down the fort on what is a huge, huge day for the New York Yankees. Yesterday it was about all right. How you feeling after that ugly weekend? Giving up 23 runs. What do they get outscored 23 to nine in two games? Let's face it, five of the seven runs they scored on Sunday were garbage time after the game was already decided. But now you're coming home and how you feeling? Play should be electric. And when you look at the task at hand, which seems impossible, seems daunting if you look at it just a step at a time. You've got the pitching matchup tonight. Rodin was good against Boston. He's been phenomenal all year. I'm not saying you trust him at the level that you trust the Cole or that you trusted Andy Pettit back in the day, but he's a really, really good pitcher. And you're going against Justin Shane. Shane Bieber, who is, what, making his eighth start since coming back from Tommy John. And he's been okay and he's a.
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A
Veteran, but he's only been in two playoff games. But yeah, he's not like a grizzled playoff.
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B
There's a reason why that they had him pitch on the road because they didn't want the kids Sunday pitching, you know, for the first time at Yankee Stadium in that kind of atmosphere. So you got the pitching match up here. They're probably throwing an opener. The Blue Jays tomorrow. Right. And Cam's gonna pitch for you. And he saved Your season just not even a week ago.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so. But I don't. Don't even think about Thursday or Wednesday or potentially Friday. Let's get a win. Survive in advance. And all the Blue Jays did. I know they bludgeoned you. I know they embarrassed you. But all they technically did, Alan, was hold sir. They won their two games in Toronto. You had to win one game in Toronto. You knew that. And it's gonna be tough because you've lost, what, eight of nine this year in Toronto. But now the next two games are at the friendly confines of Yankee Stadium. And if you think of just surviving till tomorrow, it doesn't feel like it should be that hard to do.
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A
It shouldn't. And again, yesterday was simply about get it off your chest, get it out. And that's what we were trying to do yesterday. There were a lot of crazy takes and a lot of crazy things being said, but that's what you do. You got to get the emotion out of you. You were frustrated. You have every right to be frustrated. After a week, a lost weekend in Toronto, and, you know, look, they're facing something that is very difficult to do. Climb back. But as you said, you're in the Bronx now. It's a different location. And today's not the day to be mad about the past. Today's the day to look forward to tonight and seeing what Carlos Rodin can give you and also seeing what, I don't know, the lineup has him is not out yet. Right. But Aaron Boone's going to do that lineup. Is Trent Grisham going to stay as your leadoff guy? Because he has not been good. 1 for 8 in the series, 3 for 20 so far in the playoffs. He has struggled. Does he make a change there to get somebody that can get some action ahead of Aaron Judge and really start the thing off the right way? Or does he give him one more look because he's had such a good season? Do you just stick with your guys here? So I'm curious to see what he does there with the lineup. And you also want to see Carlos Rodin, who has faced the Blue Jays twice. The last time he saw they saw him and he saw them was in late July. So it's been a while. That didn't go well. The Yankees lost that game and he. He didn't have great control. He had five walks. He gave up only two earned runs. So it was also that time when the Yankees were playing very sloppily. But he's got to dig deep. He's got to give you what Freed couldn't give you, which is a stopper, which is a ace kind of performance tonight. How much faith do we have in Carlos Rodan to get it done tonight for the Yankees to extend this series another day?
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B
And you know, who's a Rice or Goldschmidt? Like, there's a lot of decisions in last check. We have not seen the lineup. The game's not until 8:00 o', clock, so we'll probably get it sometime. I think within this hour stands early in the 4 o' clock stands in.
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A
Another one, three for 20, another guy did five strikeouts. You know, he's gotta like, give. You gotta. You gotta get something out of everybody. Like, this is truly the season's on the line once again, just like it was last week in game two. You just have to make sure that everybody's locked in. And all the things we've said about the Yankees, the one thing you can say on a positive about this team is that they very much have been. They've been very professional about things. You never see them get emotional. You never see them freak out. You never see them get rattled when their best is needed. A lot of times you see their best. That's how you get to 94 wins. So that's what you want to see tonight. You want to see them at least put up a fight to keep this series alive. Because, Don, they've only been swept one time in a best of five. You remember when I do. I'll never forget it.
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B
You'll never forget it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But now best of five because the last time they were swept by the Astros.
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A
Well, yeah, that's the best of seven.
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B
Yeah. And they came back in 2017 against the then Indians being down two. Oh, and then. So they've done it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Matter of fact, they've done it twice coming back. Yeah, but this.
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A
In this one, they didn't.
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B
Swept.
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A
Yep.
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B
Well, they were. They were swept in 80, right?
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A
Yep.
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B
By the Royals.
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A
Correct. Pissed me off.
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B
Hey, listen, that was.
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A
Those were the days where I was scoring games. I was 9 years old just sitting there with a book and. Yeah, I did not. I hated that team, that royal team.
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B
Well, there's a lot doing right.
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A
George Brett got him back to next year, though, baby.
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B
They did. But listen, you can listen. They. They owed you one after the Chambliss home run in 76.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
I mean, it just seemed like Yankees, Royals were always like a fait accompli in the postseason. Yes, Yankees were women in 1980, but it's been. You know, that's like 102. Two games that year too. The Yankees were good in 80.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And then they were swept. So it's been a long time. 45 years.
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A
Yeah. But they're very good at home. Third best record, American League at home. They're a 50 win team in their own building. So weather should be unbelievable tonight. So it's all set up for them to just get that bounce back they need, get their mojo back and just get themselves going. Beavers are righty. It's not like, you know, he, he's beatable. He was a Cy Young winner a long time ago, but he's beatable. So that's all you gotta do.
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B
He's 4 and 2 in the game since coming back from Tommy John.
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A
And you got that, that silly AI machine that'll help you see the picture in the back. So, you know, if anybody doesn't know what Bieber looks like, you can take some swings off that. They didn't have that in the Toronto, apparently that was a big deal.
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B
But Rodon, this is the guy that wanted to keep the ball.
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A
Yes.
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B
Right.
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A
He sent them back. He sent Boone back.
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B
He sent Boone back. Something that Freed should have done the day before and didn't. And facing elimination, he wanted the ball. It wasn't great, wasn't amazing, but it was enough.
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A
But it was what you needed. Right?
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B
And you should have. There shouldn't be an empty seat. I take that back. Everybody's going to be standing, but every seat's going to be accounted for.
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A
Right.
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B
And the Yankees offense should wake up at home and take care of business. I mean, this is what it's about. I mean, everybody's complained about where the Yankees are, but this is where you've got to step it up. You're still alive, you're not dead yet. You're home. The building's going to be apoplectic. You're going up against a pitcher that's, you know, with an earned run average over three and a half since coming back from Tommy John. This is where you've got to get well. And it doesn't matter because they don't, they don't judge it at the end, they don't tally. There's no, what do they call it in soccer? Aggregate scoring, where you're down 23 to 9. So the Yankees have to score and win by a certain amount of runs to stay alive. No, when the game won, nothing. It's 2:1 with a chance to even the series tomorrow. So it looks tough. It is tough. I'm not going to sell you a bill of goods. This could be a really difficult thing to do. But in the moment, all you're asking the Yankees to be is themselves, as you said, third best record, the American League at home, an offense that's due a pitcher that was money facing elimination just a few days ago. Get it done.
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A
Yep. Get it done. So I just again, the optimism has to be there. How you feeling about this team right now, tonight, about this game right now, tonight? And Don, with all your baseball background, do you, if you're Boone, do you do anything with the lineup? Do you say, you know what? Because it has not been good. Now, they, they like to feel like maybe they got into rhythm late in Game 2, and those runs, as meaningless as they were to the outcome, weren't meaningless to an offense that was sputtering for the better part of the first game and a half of the series. Right.
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B
Right.
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A
So would you buy into that and think, all right, guys started to feel it. I don't, I don't want to mess with it, or would you say, I can't ignore 3 for 20 at the top of my order and I probably need to change some things up and see if we can inject some life into this, into this lineup. What did you do?
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B
I put first of all, when you look at the splits, righties have had success against Bieber. I, I got to put my best guys. I can't jerk around like I did in game one against the Red Sox and, and worry about the match. I got to get, you know, Paul Goldschmidt might go to the whole thing, and he should be able to hit right. I, I, I need taking Rice out. I think I am.
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A
Yeah, it's it that sounds like an option.
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B
I think that's what I'm gonna do.
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A
Yeah. And Rice available. He's available. You know, with a bat.
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B
Listen, it's all hands on deck, like everybody's gonna get their shot.
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A
Yep.
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B
But when I'm facing elimination, I got to put my best foot forward.
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A
Well, Rice went into the playoffs red hot.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And then you sat him for game one. Yeah. And he hasn't been the same sense.
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B
Right. Well, he hit the home run the first pitch he saw against the Red game, too.
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A
But he really hasn't been money. He hasn't been terrible, but he has been money. I think, I think you're right. All right, so there's one. Do you what about but Christian, I mean, you got to play him, but you lead him. So you lead them off. You're Gonna see, you're gonna stick with him. You're gonna trust him, that he'll find it.
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B
The thing when you talk about trust, what are you trusting? What you saw this year or what he's been in his career, which was a journeyman ballplay. Has the chariot turned back into a pumpkin for him at the worst possible time?
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A
I mean, it happens to strike out. Yeah.
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B
I mean, again, they're gonna look at the matchups. They're not gonna change who they are. A leopard doesn't change his stripes.
- [11:50]
A
But Boone did allow for the thought of tinkering with a few ideas, and one of them is at the top of the order. And so if he's. If he's openly saying that, clearly, he's. He could do it, because I don't think he's sending a message like trying to. Trying to put. Light a fire under Grisham. He wouldn't do that. That's not how he operates.
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B
This might be the last game he plays as a Yankee. I don't know if he's coming back.
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A
You don't know. Nobody knows.
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B
Yeah, because you got all these young outfielders looking for a chance to play.
- [12:22]
A
Bellinger is supposed to be your center fielder, and. Or Dominguez supposed to be your center fielder, I should say. And Bellinger, you know, if you. If you get to keep them, I.
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B
Don'T know if I can just have a guy that's been an automatic out in this postseason leading off.
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A
So you would make the change?
- [12:38]
B
Yeah.
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A
All right.
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B
Would you?
- [12:41]
A
Yes. I think I want to signal to my team urgency by doing something dramatic. Now, I wouldn't do it, like, because I know people say, well, sometimes that can look like a panic move, but for me, it's urgency. You know, what they did in game one against Crochet, that felt more like. That felt more like we're smarter than you. That didn't feel like urgency or like, this is different. This is, hey, I gave you X amount of games. We can't. Like, we can't do this again. And I can't have Judge at the plate with nobody on base. So that's. That's why I think I would make a move there. Now, who would you put there? Because, you know, Volpe hasn't been terrible. He does have bad at bats.
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B
I know. Listen, there's not a lot to choose from there. I know he has. He has stepped up in this postseason. One of the few guys that has. Right?
- [13:37]
A
Yep.
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B
Jazz also. Not awful. Not again, not. Not tremendous. But again, I would have a lot to choose from here. Because nobody's really hit.
- [13:46]
A
No.
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B
Bellinger has meaningless home runs. Judge. Judge has been their best offensive player. But everybody's complaining because it's only one extra base hit and it was a double.
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A
Yeah. Yeah.
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B
It's amazing to see. They're gonna obviously wait this out, but we're still waiting for the lineups going to be. What do you think the lineup should be? How you feeling? I think you're also.
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A
One more thing. I'm sorry.
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B
No, go ahead.
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A
The other thing I was thinking of today, the things to talk about going into tonight is the circle of trust thing. Weaver's got to be out. There's no. There's no condition tonight where he comes in the game. Zero. Agree or disagree?
- [14:27]
B
I agree with you.
- [14:29]
A
Like, I don't. Like he'll be in uniform. There's no chance. He even. He has to know I'm not. I'm not playing today. That's of all your options. He should be the last that you bring in if you need. And I don't want to hear about trust and all this other stuff. Believe in him. He's going through it right now. He is literally not available to you right now. He shouldn't play.
- [14:52]
B
It should be just about so for a. Don't give nobody else.
- [14:56]
A
What if Rodan gives you six innings, seventh inning. Because you know Devin Williams, your eighth inning guy, he's actually been good, right?
- [15:04]
B
Yeah.
- [15:04]
A
We just didn't have to see him. He's been good. You know, Bednar, you got to trust. Although again, he's your closer, though. But now it becomes who's that seventh inning guy? Because Radon's going to go five and change, maybe six. He's not going eight. He doesn't. It's just not who he is. So if you're getting to the seventh, who is it? Cruz. You trust him?
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B
No.
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A
Guy's emotional.
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B
Don't trust Weaver.
- [15:30]
A
You ever see Hill? You ever see those guys that when things go well, the way they react, like they're punching the air and screaming. It's almost like. Is he surprised? He's so fired up because he's almost shocked by the.
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B
Cruz got criticized for how pumped up he was considering that, like the outs were rockets, like he was celebrating kind of being lucky.
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A
But you see what I mean, like when. Like I get emotion in like a unreal moment where you get a huge strikeout. But the way he carries on sometimes it's almost like. Are you. Are you, like, almost surprised that this happened?
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B
I think he was surprised. But so, so who. I don't. Listen, the perfect world is Rodan gives you seven, you go to Williams in the eighth, you go to, you know, Bednar in the ninth, and that, that's.
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A
That's what you're hoping for.
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B
That's gold. But against this offense in Hitters park.
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A
And Rodan, just where they're playing, like, he's a. He's a five and change six guy. Like, I don't. Don't know if he can give you that.
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B
And also, you're, you know, Boone, you know, the way the sport is right now, that it's going to have to be seven brilliant innings, right. Because he's going to be itching to go to his bullpen the second that there's, like a lot of trouble.
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A
Are you crazy?
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B
No, but think about it.
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A
You can't be itching to go to that bullpen.
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B
It depends on what it is.
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A
Just bring, you know what, this is what you do. Just bring out dynamite, throw it on the mount, light it up. Rather than go to that bullpen right now, how could you possibly want to go? Like, how could you be itching to go to that bullpen? Brewers.
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B
But. But here's the thing, and this is why it's hard to wrap my mind around the Yankees coming back and winning the Series.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Is because your bullpen is going to consist of guys that you might want pitching in potential games for and five of the Series.
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A
Right.
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B
Like, if. Think about it.
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A
Yes.
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B
Are you going to go to Weaver, Are you going to go to Cruz? Or are you going to go. Are you going to, you know, lighter tap? You're not going to any of those guys, right? Are you going to tap Max Freed, who didn't throw a ton of pitches the other day, and say, hey, we're back at Yankee Stadium, we need three outs, go out there and get the job done for us?
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A
Is this like, what are they, the throw day thing? Could he do that?
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B
I think it would because we. Well, he blew up on Saturday, right?
- [17:49]
A
Yeah.
- [17:50]
B
So Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Monday, Wednesday. But they didn't throw it. I'm just saying, you're facing elimination.
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A
I'm with you.
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B
If the game's two nothing Yankees and there's runners at first and second, nobody out in the seventh inning, are you going to tax Weaver? Are you going to. Or are you going to say you.
- [18:07]
A
Can go to Weaver?
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B
I'm just saying, are you. Are you going to bring in Devin Williams for. For a two to give you two winnings to get to Bednar? Are you going to Have Bednar give you five, six outs or are you going to go max? Go out? Can you give me. Can you get. Get me out of this jam?
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A
Yeah, I think anything's got to be.
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B
Listen, I think you're right.
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A
Everything's got to be on the table.
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B
But it's got to be right.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And if you're losing two nothing, what are you doing? Right. You can't afford to have them put up a five spot. You got to get out of that inning and then you got to hope that your offense gets you back into the game. You're needing outs. What are you going to do? Go to the bullpen? You saw what happened in Detroit a couple of weeks ago. You saw what's happened in Toronto. A 2:1 game becomes a 10:1 game because you start going to the underbelly of the bullpen because you can't get to Williams or Bednar. But you're facing elimination. There's no tomorrow. What are you resting these guys for? Right? I mean, is it going to be that kind of night? Like. I don't know. I guess Boone will speak. Who are some of the starters that could be available? But considering Freed didn't pitch a ton of on Saturday, it might be his throw day. It's Yankee Stadium, not Toronto. He shouldn't be spooked by his own fan base. He's been good at home. Freed was. I need an out.
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A
Freed was Sunday.
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B
So is it. No, it was.
- [19:17]
A
He'll heal. Was.
- [19:18]
B
He'll so Sunday. I guess it's too soon.
- [19:20]
A
Yeah.
- [19:21]
B
So I'm trying to confuse with the weekend. Saturday.
- [19:24]
A
Yeah. So you had me going like, wait a minute.
- [19:26]
B
All right. But again, how you feeling? Let's just say it's one day off. How many pitches did he throw on Sunday?
- [19:35]
A
He was in the 70s.
- [19:39]
B
I mean, if he feels okay, do you do it? Do you go to heels?
- [19:45]
A
I don't know. I don't know.
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B
I don't know how.
- [19:48]
A
I'm not smart enough to know how this stuff works. I'm only smart enough to know who I'm not going to. I gotta be like. I'm telling you.
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B
I'm saying.
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A
He can't bring that dude in. Can't do it.
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B
Blackburn, no, no. Cruz, no.
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A
No.
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B
Duval. No.
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A
No way.
- [20:04]
B
So you're talking about. All right, so you're talking about. So, so, so. And if you're not going to ask Weaver or Bednar to exert more than just getting three, four outs. It's Warren Schlitler we can't warn. Yep.
- [20:20]
A
He Just.
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B
Yeah. I'm just saying these are the pitchers that they have on their roster.
- [20:23]
A
Yeah.
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B
Warren can't do it. Right. So now you're looking at your potential Game four starter. You know, asking Max Freed. You got anything in the tank? It's the end of the year. What did Jim Cott say? You can rest in November. You go back to heal. Well, I mean, these. I don't know who's available Again, they're not gonna. They're not gonna kill pitchers. They're not gonna blow arms out. But you remember all the times guys like, you know, Randy Johnson coming in, getting saves. Remember? Remember back in with the Giants, Last championship in 2014. Remember Madison, bumper partner came in, getting the save?
- [21:01]
A
Yeah, that's right. He was the. He ended up being the closer, right?
- [21:04]
B
Yeah. I don't think he's on more than one day's rest getting outs.
- [21:08]
A
Listen, that's why you get in trouble.
- [21:10]
B
Because you can't afford to say, well, I'm sorry, Cam. I can't pitch you in this tough spot because I need you tomorrow. There might not be a tomorrow.
- [21:18]
A
Yeah, that. You don't do that. No, no. Not bringing in Cam Schlitler tonight. God help me if he comes in the game. You're losing this.
- [21:30]
B
You're a dugout. You got. You got. You got Weaver. So you're gonna go to Weaver there.
- [21:35]
A
The hell would you. I'll go out there. I'll send out a position player.
- [21:40]
B
Just saying, this is what you gotta do.
- [21:41]
A
If you're in that dire straits. The. You're probably. The game's probably already over. That's rough.
- [21:47]
B
I don't think. I don't think I want to think.
- [21:49]
A
About a Yankee team that gets on the board early. Oh, yeah. All you got to have that so you're not chasing. They have no momentum, and you get your place kind of riled up. That's all the stuff that has to happen. Will it happen? I don't know. I don't know. Because the Blue Jays in the first two games have looked like a team that had all the answers. They had the cheat code, Dom. They did. They had all the answers, and they're.
- [22:12]
B
Going to have to score.
- [22:13]
A
And they were as prepared for those first two games as any team could possibly be. Now, what are they prepared for here? They've seen Radon twice. They know what he's about. Are they ready for everything he's got? Does Radon have something different to give them? You know, beyond the fastball and the splitter, is he going to do something else. Is he going to. He does have other, you know, third and fourth pitches. Does he, does he keep them off balance by using them more? I don't know. That's what's fun about watching it is like, how does he keep them off balance? Because guess what? The Yankee offense was off balance for the better part of the first two games. It was as if they didn't know what was coming. And they saw Gosman four times before he came out and they didn't know what was coming.
- [22:54]
B
Got to figure it out. Got to score some runs and make it a point.
- [22:58]
A
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- [23:08]
B
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A
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- [23:12]
B
Can spend less time setting up and more time celebrating.
- [23:15]
A
And bring your holiday spirit outdoors with unique decor like one of our Santa inflatables.
- [23:22]
B
Whatever your style, find the right pieces.
- [23:25]
A
At the right prices this holiday season at the Home Depot.
- [23:32]
B
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- [23:46]
A
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- [23:48]
B
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- [24:03]
A
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [24:06]
C
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [24:08]
A
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:15]
B
It's just so interesting facing elimination, you don't have the luxury to think about tomorrow. You can't. So really anything could be on the table. With so many holes in this bullpen, so many guys you don't trust, you know, you just wonder how deep would you go? What kind of wacky thing? Don't be surprised. In a tight situation you're you see a starter, Max Freed like warming up.
- [24:38]
A
Or heal or heal right or Cam.
- [24:43]
B
I know he's your, I know he's your game four starter, but there might not be a game four, right?
- [24:48]
A
Yeah.
- [24:49]
B
So it sounds ridiculous but you look at we were reminded on social media back in 88 oral Hershiser. Look at the innings he gobbled up Madison bum Garner in 2014. You look at the run with with the, with the Diamondbacks, but you don't.
- [25:03]
A
Do that in a division series.
- [25:05]
B
You do it when you're facing elimination so what's your argument? Is that, well, I'm sorry, I got to save these guys for games that may not be played.
- [25:13]
A
If I'm leading now, if I'm like.
- [25:16]
B
How are you doing this if you're leading?
- [25:18]
A
If I'm trailing, it's a different story.
- [25:20]
B
Trailing, I don't.
- [25:21]
A
Because I'm desperate now. But if I'm leading, I'm trying to protect the lead. I can't. I can't be. Wait, like, Cam Schlitler is my only chance to, to win the series.
- [25:33]
B
Well, you know, if I get out.
- [25:34]
A
Of this game, and I know you're saying, but you got to get out of this game first. But if I get out of this game, what, what good is it?
- [25:39]
B
Right? Right.
- [25:40]
A
Like, what if I get out of this game and I have nobody to start a game for? What am I doing?
- [25:44]
B
I know, but you know what?
- [25:46]
A
So I, I get what you're saying.
- [25:47]
B
Listen, leading, you want. You desperately want.
- [25:49]
A
I want to leave.
- [25:50]
B
Right.
- [25:50]
A
I want to see other things. Like, I want to see their approach at the plate. I'm looking at more of how do they get this offense untracked and will they? Do they think they did from the seventh inning on in game two? Or is that just bad, you know.
- [26:06]
B
Bad relievers, 13 to 2. Unless you do. You do anything, and anything that's going to gain confidence, you tell yourself in.
- [26:11]
A
Your head, oh, no, no, we're cruising now. Oh, we, we flipped it. We finally got it going. Whatever it is, it gets you. That gets you to believe it. Believe it. But I am curious to see, though, do they go back to more swing and miss again? Do the Blue Jays just have something in the playbook that they just know this is how we're playing them and they just can't handle it? Because I'll tell you what, if there's no run scored in like the first four or three, four innings, you really got to get concerned here.
- [26:35]
B
What you look to do when we talk about thinking outside the box is you don't. You're not desperate to take Rodonna. And if Rodan's gonna want the ball, and if it's 110 pitches, how many.
- [26:46]
A
Runs would he have to give up or runs with runners on base in an inning for you to say he's got to come out of the game?
- [26:54]
B
I don't know.
- [26:55]
A
Because I'm thinking if it's. If even if he's given up 5, I might still have to leave him in there.
- [27:00]
B
I need to know because again, you're asking yourself the question, am I better off with whoever is going to come in to relieve him?
- [27:07]
A
Yeah.
- [27:07]
B
You know what I'm saying?
- [27:08]
A
Right, exactly.
- [27:08]
B
So if I've got a great bullpen, yeah, I'm itching to do it. But what I don't want to see is. And that's why I talk about itching, like after 100 pitches, I'm looking to get him out of there. No, it's the last game of the season.
- [27:18]
A
No, he's got. All right, yes. That I agree with.
- [27:20]
B
Listen, I don't want to see anybody get hurt, but you know what? If you got to go 120 pitches, get out of this to get me, I need to get to Devin Williams in the eighth.
- [27:28]
A
Yeah.
- [27:28]
B
And if it's. If it's seven and two thirds, there's a runner at second base, it's a 2:1 game, and I'm looking at that bullpen, then I got to bring Devin Williams in to get four outs or I'm going to have to get Devin Williams to get three, and then Bednar is going to have to get four, or I'm going to have to have Rodon throw five, six more pitches than he's used to to get me there, man. Well, you got all summer. You got, you got the whole winter.
- [27:50]
A
To rest up, or you got a week to the. Because, like, if you.
- [27:55]
B
Well, he's not going to pitch again. Yeah.
- [27:56]
A
Well, now think about it. If I have to get you to empty the tank and we end up winning this series, you won't pitch till a week anyway.
- [28:04]
B
Right. But. But the answer will be at the end of a loss and say, why did you take Rodon out?
- [28:09]
A
Oh, we were protecting him.
- [28:10]
B
We were trying to protect him and, you know, we were hoping to be able to put him on ice for the next. For the next time. Well, if you're him, there's no next time.
- [28:17]
A
If you're him, aren't you saying the same thing?
- [28:19]
B
Out of my cold, dead hands. As Charlton Heston once said, on a different topic, that's the way it should be.
- [28:23]
A
That's the way. As a starting pitcher in an elimination game, that's the way it should be.
- [28:28]
B
1-800-919-3776, Mike in Orlando. You get us started here on Don Hannah. Rosenberg. What's up, man?
- [28:35]
D
Hey, guys, how you doing?
- [28:36]
B
Everything.
- [28:37]
D
So everything's on the table tonight. All hands on deck. Two things that can't be happening right now. As the players, the fans, the media, the staff, the guy who cooks the meals in the in the locker room, we can't be thinking that the game is over, the series isn't over. All we got to do is punch him in the mouth and then we flip home field and then. Well, you can't flip home field, but you got to get home, you got to defend home field and then you got a puncher's chance. That's the first thing we can't let happen. Second thing, we got to stop pointing the finger at Judge. I think Don hammered it home very well yesterday. And earlier on this show, he's batting.450. Obviously he's held to a higher standard. He needs to, he needs to hit home runs and have big hits. But we've gotten so mad at him in the past for not taking what the pitchers are giving him in the playoffs and swinging outside the zone. He's taking what the pitchers are giving him. He's taking singles, he's setting the table. If he goes over four tonight, it's a different conversation. But he is nowhere near the reason that we're down two games to zero.
- [29:34]
A
You know, he brings up an interesting point that I was also thinking about. If Judge, you know, again, things don't go well tonight. How do this, how does the stadium treat him?
- [29:47]
B
As he's walking off the field after.
- [29:49]
A
A loss or just after the swing and a miss, strike out, walk back.
- [29:53]
B
And to be grinding.
- [29:53]
A
We have heard, remember, we have heard the building grown to him when he's not going and he strikes out. We have heard that. And I wonder again, after another season where he's clearly the best player in the game, where he's going to be like he a guy had a historic season and yet it's not a given he'll win the mvp. And I'm talking about Cal Rally. He had an historic season and it's not a given in any other season, Cal Rally, you'd hand him the MVP trophy right now. But because of Judge, it's not a given. That's what kind of a year Judge had in a Yankee uniform. And yet if he has a bases loaded, no out situation like he did in game one, is he going to hear it?
- [30:34]
B
No, he's going to hear it.
- [30:34]
A
And I'm not saying that he shouldn't, I'm not saying fans should. But it is like that stuff does twist a little with a team.
- [30:42]
B
There'll be people who claim. I was booing the situation, Don, the drama tonight, unreal. And it's only the divisional round.
- [30:49]
A
Like every time Boone walks out of the dugout to Make a pitching change. He's going to hear it like it's. The drama is off the charts tonight.
- [30:57]
B
It's amazing. Thursday was when they won the series.
- [31:00]
A
Against the Red Sox. Yeah. Yeah. Euphoric.
- [31:02]
B
We get to Tuesday, not even a week later, you're back in the same spot again, facing elimination. And then we're just saying it's the divisional round. Even if you do the impossible and win the next three, okay, now you got to best the seven against either, you know, Seattle or Detroit.
- [31:17]
A
Yeah.
- [31:18]
B
Oh, by the way, you know, Detroit, that handled you during the regular season and Seattle didn't. But, you know, still another stage. And then if you get through that, it's the world's. It's amazing how long and crazy and the anxiety that you got to go through. But I was thinking about this because I brought up Greg Maddox. Right. Greg Maddox didn't have the same stats the postseason that he had in the regular season. When you get historic players who are doing it better than anybody ever did it, is it realistic to expect them to duplicate that in the postseason? Against only good teams, against only good pitching, when everybody knows that you're the one guy I can't let beat me? Now, Judge, the great woods, series aside, has been bad. We're talking about a 200. All right? So I'm not defending that. I'm just saying I think the people that hold him to a higher standard have to realize how hard it is to be that good in the po postseason when everybody's watching, everybody's trying to get you out. Like I'm saying, Gosman, I think, threw that ball outside. He was okay with walking Judge.
- [32:19]
A
Yeah. But he also knew. He also knew what he was throwing. Judge can't resist.
- [32:23]
B
I. Fine. But he also knew I can't against anybody else, he could afford to maybe throw. Throw one down because he doesn't want to have to walk a run in and take the chance that he gets hit at somebody.
- [32:34]
A
Right.
- [32:34]
B
Couldn't do that with Judge because he might challenge. So there's a respect level that comes with having to face a judge that nobody else. Even Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter was an amazing player, but there are so many good players on that team. All right, Jeter's going to hit a single, and he might burn me, but I don't. He's not going to hit the ball 600ft like Judge can with the bases loaded, you know, so. And then you had o' Neal and you had Tino Martinez, you had Bernie Williams, and then later on, Alex Rodriguez And. And. And Matsui and. And John, Johnny Damon. There were just so many. So it was a difference. I'm not saying it was easier for Derek, but he wasn't. They didn't pitch to Derek the way.
- [33:15]
A
They pitched a judge. I don't think they were afraid of Derek like, they're afraid because he wasn't.
- [33:20]
B
Going to do the damage the judge could do.
- [33:22]
A
Yeah.
- [33:22]
B
So again, I'm not defending the 200 bad.
- [33:24]
A
More like Bernie Williams, you know, like, he might like that. Like.
- [33:27]
B
But Bernie Williams. Bernie was a clutch guy.
- [33:30]
A
Yeah.
- [33:30]
B
But also, Bernie wasn't the guy with all those great mashers that was on the top of the list of people that. I can't let Bernie beat me.
- [33:37]
A
Well, that's probably because that team had so much depth. Who was the one guy you were afraid of? It wasn't a one guy.
- [33:43]
B
They all just stepped up in that collective lineup.
- [33:46]
A
Was one, and then they were false. So they always had. Every year, some dude that just went on a. Went on a toot, like you'd say.
- [33:51]
B
So now I'm looking at a Yankee team, and nobody's hitting. Jazz isn't hitting. Right. Grisham's an automatic out. Bellinger's hitting meaningless home runs. All right? So the one guy I gotta make sure does not beat me. Gosman's in that situation, and he's saying to himself, if Bellinger beats me, fine. I can't have Judge beat me. So I'm going to throw a pitch out of the strike zone. Judge helped him out. If that's Bellinger, it's a different story. It's true, you know, or you end up buying again.
- [34:19]
A
You're reasoning so much of this, and fans don't reason. Fans want results.
- [34:24]
B
I'm just.
- [34:25]
A
You are the face of the. No, no, I get it. And it's. It's. All of. It's right. But a fan is not going to say, well, it's the playoffs, and you're facing better teams that have. All of their scouts are just focused on one thing instead of advancing the next series and all that other stuff. So everybody's finding whatever loophole they possibly can find in every piece of video. Of course, there it is. There's the hole.
- [34:46]
B
But doesn't it. You're bringing up former Yankees, but none of them are judge. And like Barry Bonds, not the same player in the postseason he was in the regular season. How about Reggie? Well, Reggie was. Reggie was clutch. All right. Reggie G. Was Mr. October. There's some guys that are special.
- [35:03]
A
That's a Pretty big day.
- [35:04]
B
Just always do it right.
- [35:06]
A
Pretty big day.
- [35:06]
B
It is a big day.
- [35:08]
A
Three home runs, man.
- [35:10]
B
It was the third time.
- [35:11]
A
How has anybody thrown him anything there?
- [35:13]
B
I know, it's unreal. It's crazy. And Reggie set a standard. Dave Winfield wasn't as good a player in the postseason.
- [35:20]
A
He never had a chance to really do it.
- [35:22]
B
One World Series. That was it. And that's how he became Mr. Maybe. We called her Dave yesterday saying that that's how, you know, Hal should be treating Judge or wish George was still alive to treat him like that.
- [35:31]
A
No, I had a. At some point today, buster only. And I had a conversation this morning just back and forth about this whole. The George Steinbrenner thing that hangs over the franchise.
- [35:42]
B
Yeah, we're gonna get to that.
- [35:43]
A
And it's a very like. We both kind of like came to the same place. And it's an interesting.
- [35:47]
B
You must add. Cause he tweeted something. I wonder if it was after the conversation.
- [35:51]
A
Yeah, we discussed it. It was. But it's so good. And there's little things that we both came up with about the version of George that people. That people want to keep alive versus the real version of George.
- [36:03]
B
So, Flavio in Brooklyn, you're on ESPN New York. What's up, buddy?
- [36:07]
D
Hey, what's going on, guys? So I told Anthony or Jacob that answered the phone that I believe today's going to be a sweet. I think that the Yankees are not going to come back being down. Also, I don't know if you guys noticed, but in game two, from Giants Chisholm to Trent Grisham, a combined total of three for 21. You know, in game two, completely unacceptable. I'm a Diamond Red Mets fan. I want to see them suffer. I want. I want to see the Yankees get swept and embarrassed. I just, I can't put coin on, you know, Carlos Ladon to get it done for me. I mean, Shane Bieber, I know that he's just coming back with Tommy John surgery, but I just think that momentum is on Toronto. I can see, you know, Toronto winning this in a close manner, but I just think that, you know, nobody should be giving Judge any type of banter. Rice isn't playing decent. You know, he hasn't been as hot as he was, you know, ending the regular season. But I just think that. I think the Yankees, you know, they no longer play baseball after today. That's just my opinion.
- [37:08]
B
Well, I just think you're underrating the change of venue. Toronto had the confidence because they won every game. But one against the Yankees in Toronto. Now the script flips to Yankee Stadium. Yankees have played the Blue Jays well there. Yankees have played well at home. Now you might be right. They might get swept, but the change in venue is big. The Blue Jays are not gonna have the same atmosphere they're not gonna have. They might come in with a swagger. The Yankees should be able to come in with a bit of a swagger, too. They're a good offensive team, especially in their building. They just took two out of three from Boston at Yankee Stadium. So the venue change is a big deal.
- [37:48]
A
Oh, it is.
- [37:49]
B
All right.
- [37:50]
A
I completely agree.
- [37:50]
B
This is not like the last series where the venue didn't change. So the Yankees were facing elimination, but they knew they were going to be playing in their building the next two games with a chance to advance. Now all bets are off once they have to go back to Toronto for Game 5. But at least for the next two games, you cannot, you cannot underrate how the script flips when you change a venue like that. We'll see if the Yankees could take advantage of it. 1-800-919-3776. Talk about a Tuesday coming up at 4:30, enn at 6. Take you right up till 7:00'. Clock. Don Hunter Rosenberg on ESPN New York.
- [38:24]
C
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- [39:20]
A
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [39:23]
C
My name was to anything you just said.
- [39:25]
A
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:33]
B
No significant changes that I see. Grisham's still going to lead off.
- [39:36]
A
That's pretty much the same play.
- [39:37]
B
Center field judge batting second and right field. Bellinger in left batting third. Rice is going to clean up at first, so no go. Goldschmidt, Stanton batting fifth. The DH Chisholm at second. McMahon at third. Volpe stays in the eight spot at shortstop, and Wells is going to catch and bat ninth. So that's the lineup against a righty. But when you look at the splits, that they don't really match up the same, but they probably go with different numbers. But just looking at Bieber's splits this year anyway, is that righties had actually hit him a little better, so. But sticking with Grisham, who's batting 125 in the postseason and how many strikeouts he's been.
- [40:22]
A
It's literally the same lineup as game too.
- [40:24]
B
Yeah, because it's, it's, it's going with the whole righty, lefty situation.
- [40:28]
A
Yeah. So if you're Goldschmid, how do you feel?
- [40:31]
B
I am disappointed for sure. Especially when, I mean, listen, I'm not disappointed that I get because Rice has been good, but you know that you're not getting a chance in an elimination game not to play. Over the last seven games, Grisham's batting 130 with 11 strikeouts. Now, he does walk. He's got eight walks in that span over the last 15 games. He has struck out 20 times and he's walked 12, but he's batting 176. But he's got four home runs in his last 15 games. Again, it's about the long ball. And the thing is, I'm sure that's been Goldschmidt get home runs too. But that's the thing, is that we talk about the Yankees being too reliant on the home run, but unfortunately you don't want none. Right. And they were out homeward five to one in the last game. And the one home run that Bellinger hit was meaningless. Right. It made. It was it. It was 12. Nothing became 12 to whatever it was. It didn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. And you bring up small ball. What was Philly thinking last night trying to move the runner over to third base with nobody out.
- [41:38]
A
Thank you. Thank you for saying that. All the momentum in the world like that. They had it that the building finally woke up because it was dead in there in the eighth inning. They had the. They had an opportunity. Schwarber gets up and strikes out. And you could just. All the air sucked out of the building. Harper. Nothing. Like. It's all happening right there in that moment. And we're gonna bunt. Is nobody out?
- [42:02]
B
Bonnie went no, baby. Again. And if they weren't in a scoring position, the edict is you play for the tie at home because you get the last licks. But you got them on the ropes. Their bullpen is not the.
- [42:15]
A
You could see it. China didn't have it. He didn't have. And you're going to bail him out.
- [42:19]
B
Dodgers are good, but their bullpen is not great.
- [42:22]
A
No.
- [42:23]
B
So you got three cracks, a tie in the game with a base hit. Now you reduce it down the one because of the possible sacrifice flying. And in that building, there's a chance that any fly ball is going to go out anyway.
- [42:34]
A
Never mind. You're also set up for the double play. And when you bunt and you get on because they make the play at third. So now it's one out with a guy like, you're just completely. I don't understand that decision at all.
- [42:48]
B
And again, the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. What is. What does our guy do? Bader smacks a single, right. But instead of it scoring the tying run. No, it just. Now, this run is the first, second, but is one out. And eventually runners in the corners, they don't score three.
- [43:05]
A
Cassiano's not a good runner, but they just worried, like they had to get him in scoring position that he wouldn't be able to score from second on a base hit, so they wanted to get him a third. Were they thinking. Is that your thinking? Because by the way, Bets. Bets outran him the third.
- [43:18]
B
I know it's crazy.
- [43:19]
A
They were both running the third.
- [43:20]
B
But I always have this argument with football with Rex, when Rex was the coach of the jets, always thinking positively. I think coaches have to think negatively. And here's what I mean. Don't think how good things are going to be if it works. Think about where you are if it doesn't. Right. If it works. You've got a runner at third with one out. Sacrifice fly ties the game.
- [43:47]
A
Whatever.
- [43:48]
B
What if it doesn't work? My building's apoplectic, right? I made a four nothing game into a four three game. I got the tying run, and at second base, I've got a bad bullpen on the ropes. If my bunt doesn't work, I've taken a runner out of scoring position. I've pulled the plug on the crowd. I let the Dodgers believe they're back into getting out of this thing. Why don't you think sometimes as positive as you want to be when you make a decision, all right, what am I left with if this doesn't work?
- [44:16]
A
Right. You're taking the pressure off the pitcher rather than making him pitch.
- [44:23]
B
And it's.
- [44:24]
A
How did you. And by the way, how. Like, the Dodgers were ready. So it wasn't like you were fooling anybody. They were ready for it. I just. I couldn't believe that. Talk about a fake execution.
- [44:34]
B
It was executed very well. I mean, the Dodgers, they.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah, the wheel play.
- [44:37]
B
But that's a dangerous team. Listen, they beat the Reds. It's a. Reds didn't belong. And now. And now they're taking care of the Phillies. And the Phillies. I mean, the Dodgers and the. That looks like it's going to be one hell of a series. Those two teams are flat out good.
- [44:52]
A
Yes. Loaded. And one team can pitch the hell out. Like the brewers with their pitching should be able to handle the Dodgers lineup.
- [45:00]
B
Yeah, they don't. They don't hit a ton of home runs, but they did last night, and they get the win. Let's go to Andres in Lynn Hurst drawing. ESPN New York. What's up, man?
- [45:10]
D
Hey. Hey, how are you doing, guys? Die hard, Yankee fan here, but the season's done here. And I have a couple of points here because Radon stinks. The buffing is cooked. Grisham can't hit. We have to move on from him. Ben Rice is in a slump. I love Judge, but he can't come through in the clutch. That's five points so far. Six. Number six. Playoffs. Stanton is cooked. That's the thing of the past. I'm ready to move on from Stanton. His salary for the next two seasons is $19 million. I believe if we can find a taker for Stanton. He's clogging up our lineup. When we talk about roster construction, this is one of the issues. He's clogging up the lineup.
- [45:47]
B
Well, the problem is he does. He's not gonna agree to be traded just anywhere.
- [45:53]
A
There's a lot. There's a lot there to dissect. So we're giving. So radon, who has 18 wins, stinks.
- [45:59]
B
Stinks. So he's not saved your season last Tuesday, but that's okay.
- [46:03]
A
But he stays. So there's no faith in him. The bullpen. I'm with you 100%. Yes. It's. I mean, again, it's lighter fluid. So I'm with you, Judge. You're ready to give up on him.
- [46:16]
B
There was somebody else just getting cut Bass.
- [46:18]
A
No, there was somebody other than Stan, but. Okay, then we go to Stan. Oh, what was the. Oh. Oh, Grisham. Grisham. Grisham. Done with him.
- [46:25]
B
Which. Which you might.
- [46:26]
A
I don't know what to believe with Grisham. You're right. He had a good regular season, but he has not done it in the playoffs. And he needs to get paid. He's losing money right now. Yeah. And then playoff. Stanton, come on, man. Like, first of all, he's not going anywhere. Second of all, the numbers you just gave me on how much his salary cost is not impeding you from being a good team. And when he's healthy, as we've seen. And we also can see how he can be a catalyst for the team in the clubhouse. And when things were going south in August, who's the guy that got hot?
- [47:01]
B
Yeah.
- [47:01]
A
And suddenly everybody kind of followed his lead. I so, like, don't be so quick to.
- [47:06]
B
I don't.
- [47:07]
A
I don't like. This is what happens with fans, right? The rats are the first ones to jump ship.
- [47:13]
B
Well, listen, we're getting.
- [47:14]
A
Don't do that.
- [47:14]
B
Not today. I really thought we'd get a few calls, like believing, but it sounds like these Yankee fans think people are quitting teams cooked. Prove me wrong. 1-800-919-3776.
- [47:27]
A
You selling your tickets tonight? Did you sell your tickets to Toronto fans tonight?
- [47:31]
B
Oh, boy. Something.
- [47:32]
A
Wow.
- [47:33]
B
No. Do you believe in. Why do you not believe we got.
- [47:36]
A
To do better than this?
- [47:37]
B
1-800-919-3776. Donna Rosenberg. Just getting started here on a Tuesday on ESPN New York.
- [47:45]
C
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- [48:33]
A
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.