Alan Hahn (2:30)

Don't miss that.

Don La Greca (2:30)

Of the Vikings and the Bears, but he knows quarterbacks, and we got to talk Quarterbacks with him coming up at the bottom of the hour. But what you saw, at least from the jets is a functioning team. A team where things work, where it's entertaining. Again, it wasn't what you wanted at the end of the day, but you could sink your teeth into. Hey, we got a pretty good quarterback. We were able to move the ball against a really good defense, scored some points, we did some things that you can kind of wrap your mind around. All I saw to the Giants was basically a repeat of pretty much every game that we've seen in Brian Dable's tenure here with the Giants. Yeah, move the ball between the 20s, catch a couple of breaks, extend some drives, but then you get to the red zone, you doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is, doesn't matter who the personnel is. Not scoring touchdowns, not doing it. And you want to kill the defense. They, they were gouged on the ground, I get it. But late in the fourth quarter, it's 14:6. You're in the game because of the defense and the reason you had no shot of winning the game, because you're not scoring. So yeah, Russell Wilson stunk. Yes, Andrew Thomas was out. But come on guys, you watch football, it's a coaches league. You coach it up, you find a way to be able to move the ball, you find a way to score some points and maybe the commanders are going to go 170 guys and not give up a touchdown all year. And we'll look back, oh well, the Giants were just a victim like everybody else. But no, I choose to say again, non functioning. So I know it's not anything to celebrate, but the jets are a functional organization and the Giants, same old, same old.

Alan Hahn (4:09)

It said five chances to score inside the two don't score.

Don La Greca (4:14)

Yeah, legal hands to the face, fresh set of downs, settle for field.

Alan Hahn (4:18)

And you also have too early in the season the call for Jackson dart. And I understand why and I'm glad. The one thing they did right, Don, is make the decision today to say they're sticking with Russell Wilson for another week. That offensive line is not good. We know this. Without Andrew Thomas, they're even worse. And the last thing you want to do is ruin a kid because you're impatient or because you want to satisfy your fans by throwing the rookie out there as a distraction. That's not how you develop a young player. That would be detrimental. So any Giant fan out there that believes that they should make the change, now that's a selfish decision you're making. But it's not the right decision going forward. Unfortunately, Russell Wilson is the right guy for right now, even though he looks like Russell Wilson. Remember they said, you know, let Russ cook. Now it's Russ is cooked.

Allen Bestwick (5:14)

Yeah. You know, let Russ continue to be cooked.

Alan Hahn (5:17)

Yeah, he's cooked. But it's also probably because he doesn't trust what's happening in front of him, which is why immediately his eyes go down, he tries to run because he's just, he sees the leaks.

Allen Bestwick (5:25)

But he's right not to trust it.

Alan Hahn (5:26)

At this point, too, because he sees the leaks. So there's no way in hell you're putting a prized rookie quarterback that you want to see grow and become something. If anything's going to come out of this season, it's got to be that that kid's the one. You put him out there now you might ruin it. So don't do it. At least not until Andrew Thomas is healthy enough to be out there. So at least you have a functioning, reliable left tackle to protect his blind side. Otherwise you will ruin the only thing this season could be about.

Allen Bestwick (6:00)

But totally agree. At first I thought when the game started I went, oh, we're going to get Jackson dart. And then as I saw how much of a sieve the line was, I was like, I guess we're not going to see Jackson dart. So this is why you have Russell Wilson.

Don La Greca (6:13)

But unfortunately for him, but right now it's an opinion Allen has and I share the opinion. Sounds like you share it too.

Alan Hahn (6:20)

Okay, good.

Don La Greca (6:21)

That it doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus, I don't want to damage this kid because if they are going to blow it up, at least blow it up to where he didn't get that much bad handed to him. That can kind of mess him up because let's face it, guys, he's not going to play against Dallas. Now, Dallas doesn't have a great defense, so there could be the temptation blame against Dallas. Maybe we'll score some points. But I want to give Russell Wilson and I want to get this team a chance to go up against the defense that should allow some points and we'll see where we're at. But the temptation is going to come, guys. And the temptation is going to come from a coach who is gonna use Jackson dart as a security blanket to try to save his job. Right? It won't be because he's ready. It won't be because it's the right thing to do. It'll be, I need to make this look, I need this kid to Save my job.

Alan Hahn (7:08)

Can't do it.

Don La Greca (7:09)

And I just, I can't afford that because right now I'm looking at this team and again it's early and it's one week. I don't, I want to go nuts. But it is one week. Remember when the jets beat, when the jets lost to the Niners in week one last year, it was like all the Niners are going to the Super Bowl. The Niners didn't turn out to be any good. Like, I don't know, I, if I had to guess, I think the commanders are one of the best teams in football but you know, we might fast forward and go, hey, well no, nobody else is scoring against the commander so let's not kill the Giants or you know, the Steelers maybe the Steelers are a civ defensively this year and we're not going to be as impressed with the 32 point. We need a little bit more information. I get that, I agree. But the point is it looks a lot like it's looked every game, pretty much the Giants have ever played any game plan not being able to score. So if I know that Dable's out of a job and at the end of the season he's going to get fired. I got to make sure I didn't do damage to the one kid that might be able to save me. So I'm not playing him.

Alan Hahn (8:04)

And if you're, if see that's, it's not just a Dable decision. If you're Joe Shane, you can't allow it. Can't allow it.

Don La Greca (8:09)

But I don't want Joe Shane to thinking the same thing. Like I want the kid that I drafted to impress so I could save my job.

Alan Hahn (8:16)

See, the first thing you do is you get rid of the coach. You don't get rid of both.

Don La Greca (8:18)

I agree, but I don't know, I don't know what John Maris thinking at.

Alan Hahn (8:22)

This point, but I thought for sure they'd be at least a little bit more prepared for the season. But I can't believe it's as Don said, it's three straight years they can't score more than six points and I.

Don La Greca (8:32)

Don'T want like that's unreal and I don't want to hear about injury.

Alan Hahn (8:35)

The opener is the one game that every single team, the worst teams in the league are ready for Week 1's opponent because it's the only thing you're preparing for for two weeks.

Allen Bestwick (8:44)

And what about, what about the. There are a couple of commanders mistakes.

Alan Hahn (8:48)

Who else looked more inept than the Giants, out of everybody that's played so offensively, more game tonight, who looked more inept?

Don La Greca (8:55)

Down to the Dolphins of the Texas.

Alan Hahn (8:59)

The Dolphins and the Giants had two things in common, and that was two teams that at least offensively. Now, defensively, the Giants did. Did work. They did work in this game. They showed some passion. But I was really concerned about that part of it. There was a lot of like lost. Lost looking.

Allen Bestwick (9:18)

Well, no, I think if I were.

Alan Hahn (9:19)

Looking for upside, the offensive team looks disconnected from their coach, but the Giants weren't too far behind.

Allen Bestwick (9:24)

If I were to look for some upside for this Giants team, I that defensively in the second half, they did put up a pretty nice effort. Like I thought early on. I thought the commanders were just going to completely march all over him.

Alan Hahn (9:34)

And Dexter Lawrence looks gas like he's got to get into real game shape. He didn't have a full.

Allen Bestwick (9:38)

That could have been much worse. 21, that's not a bad show.

Alan Hahn (9:41)

It's 146 for a majority of the game. The game is right there.

Allen Bestwick (9:44)

It was right there for him. And now let's not forget though, the commanders of that illegal hands to the face gave them a fresh set of downs inside. But you got it that you got to get a touchdown.

Don La Greca (9:52)

This is why I think it's coaching, guys. And again, I'm not going to sit there and apologize. Russell Wilson, he's playing. Playing on the 18th hole. Okay.

Allen Bestwick (9:58)

We thought it might have been 14. It's 18.

Don La Greca (10:00)

But he's still. He's savvy veteran to be able to try to make things happen. Okay. And you can talk about Andrew Thomas. They knew Andrew Thomas wasn't going to play. That's why they made the acquisitions they made. Hudson's in there. All right, the interior line's the problem. And these are guys that Shane brought in. All right? So the offensive line has been an issue forever under this regime and even going back before this regime continued problem. But all I kept hearing all week, well, Farah Tucker's going to be out for the Jets. How are they going to move the football? He scored 32 points. So that's why you got to feel good. That good coaching. And we'll find out exactly how good the jets are coaching wise. But the league figures it out. They're handing you points in this league. Guys, we're not talking about 1975 where it's hard to score. This team can't score in a league where everybody and their mother can score. Even teams that aren't good can score. That's why I'm not going to get crazy about what Daniel Jones did because I don't know if he's still any good. But you know what? He's on a team that got some imagination and they got coaching. That's exactly why you should go crazy. It is a coaching issue. And when you get into the red zone, as Peter mentioned, because anybody can move between the 20s because they're looking to throw flags, they're looking to find a way for more points to be scored in this league. But once you get into the red zone and there's no room, that's where you're going to have to have imagination. That's when coaching has to shine through. And they could. They were not going to score on a bet. They could have started every drive at the 20 yard line and they would have never scored a touchdown. You know how I know that? Because they don't score touchdowns in the red zone under this regime ever. Doesn't matter who the quarterback is, doesn't matter who's in, who's out on the offensive line. Can't do it because it's coaching people. When your coach doesn't know how to get it done. And if I got to look, you know, the mirrored sunglasses and the comments, I'm just done. I'm done.

Allen Bestwick (11:48)

I respect his time, I respect the momentum.

Don La Greca (11:51)

I said it. During the offense, looking at you, I said it. I would have blown it up if I was John Mara. I understand that. I go through coaches every two years but there was no reason to bring him back, especially the coach. But you double down, so let's see what he can do. And he's got all year. We know they're playing the Commanders. You know that Andrew Thomas isn't going to be 100%. You went out and got Russell Wilson and that's what you did. Right? It's the first game you get. You're preparing all year for the first game of the year.

Allen Bestwick (12:17)

By the way, was it okay? Again, Russell Wilson is not the problem. But from the standpoint of him being cooked, cannot throw the ball downfield. None of their real. They had a couple of balls downfield to neighbors, but for the most part it's all checked down. And if I heard, if I had heard Alan mention moon ball one more time, that moon ball goes straight up in the sky. It doesn't go anywhere.

Alan Hahn (12:34)

He doesn't have time.

Allen Bestwick (12:35)

What? But if you're not going to have a good quarterback in there, I would have. I might have went with Winston over Wilson.

Alan Hahn (12:40)

Yeah, well, that's to me that seems like the better option if you're going to make a change this early and they're not. They just said they're not. Fine. But I'm talking about the next four weeks. I think you go to Winston first before you go to dart. He's just. I know.

Allen Bestwick (12:56)

Cooked. Alan, right? He's not cooked.

Alan Hahn (12:58)

Right. But I know he. I know. Darts listed as quarterback, too. That doesn't mean he's next in line, though. I have to stress this over and over again. The Giants can only make it worse if they, if they try to advance the cause too soon. When it comes to this quarterback, he's. He looked good in preseason, but this is now desperate times and on top of it, Don, it's a real thing. Your team can look completely inept and also disconnected when the off. When you lose at the line of scrimmage. And they haven't. When was the last time the Giants controlled the line of scrimmage on the offensive side of the ball?

Don La Greca (13:36)

No, they haven't. It's been years, but they never do.

Alan Hahn (13:39)

But that changes everything. If you don't have any control at the line of scrimmage, your offense fizzles, it disappears. It doesn't matter who you are. But why be one of the greatest minds the sport has ever known in offense? It won't work if you lose at the line of scrimmage.

Don La Greca (13:54)

Why do they continue to lose the line of scrimmage? So every draft pick they make is the wrong one. Every free agent signing is the wrong one.

Alan Hahn (14:03)

Your best lineman, your left tackle was not available. That's a big problem.

Don La Greca (14:08)

I get it. But you knew he was going to be unavailable. At least it was on the table. He was going to be unavailable. You addressed it by getting depth at that position. And that wasn't where it broke down. It broke down in the interior line. Who's on the interior line? Guys that they, that Shane brought in here. They've tried to fix this problem. So what I keep asking myself, and I always think this baseball, you could say, well, when are you going to kill the players? Basketball, hockey, kill the players. But the one sport where the coach really has the most say is the NFL, is football. So you can't always blame the players. Are the coaches putting them in the best position? Are the best calls being made? Try to find a way, develop plays where you get quick outs where you can at least not, not as much mobility as Wilson used to have in Seattle. But something, I mean, you look at the play Fields is getting all of the love on that quarterback sneak. Right. And he did a great fake. But that's also a great play call. You know, using the strength of the Steelers and using what you were able to do during the course of the game to get him suckered into the middle so he's able to waltz into the end zone. It's great to praise Fields for being so athletic to do it, but it's also great play call. The timing of it was perfect. The way the jets set it up is perfect. The that's coaching. That's what makes it work. And it hasn't worked here for so long.

Allen Bestwick (15:23)

You want to know the best the best point maybe from yesterday to prove what Don saying about coaching. Did the Lions look like a team that missed two coordinators?

Alan Hahn (15:32)

Oh, wow.

Don La Greca (15:32)

Yeah.

Allen Bestwick (15:33)

I'm not saying they can't get it together. They're very talented team. They have a good head coach.

Alan Hahn (15:36)

But it happens.

Allen Bestwick (15:36)

But you Don on both sides of the ball where they lost their coordinators, they're a different football team.

Alan Hahn (15:41)

Their offense looked like it just didn't have the same snap. Just completely over play calling. None of that was there.

Allen Bestwick (15:48)

So it's. I completely feel. Completely feel your frustration. It was.

Don La Greca (15:53)

Yeah.

Allen Bestwick (15:53)

By the way, the commanders. The reason I feel good today is we always play the Giants so close and to have a game where the commanders, let's be honest, not very good.

Alan Hahn (16:03)

Didn'T look great and one easily that.

Allen Bestwick (16:06)

A made me feel good about where this team, my team could get well.

Alan Hahn (16:09)

It shows your defense is taking a step.

Allen Bestwick (16:10)

Yeah, for sure. And it's just that if you can beat teams easily when you're not playing well, we're probably going to be a pretty legit team. But it also makes you feel terrible if you're a Giants fan. They were not good yesterday and you still were. Really? Yes, you were close. But I'm telling you right now, as a fan, I never felt threat.

Don La Greca (16:25)

No, because they weren't scoring.

Alan Hahn (16:26)

Yeah.

Don La Greca (16:27)

That's why I'm not going to kill the defense. The defense got gouged. I get it early, early. But you'd like to see at least some offensive ability. But you knew you weren't threatened because you're not going to score a touchdown. You're not going to win this game. You're not going to win without scoring touchdowns in the NFL. It's not going to happen. I don't care how good the defense is. They're going to give up points because it's the NFL. But unless it's against the Giants, they're not going to be able to score any points. That. That is the underlying issue.

Alan Hahn (16:50)

All that in mind, though, right? We understand what we saw in the preseason from the Giants. Throw it in the garbage. None of it matters. This is who they are and we saw it and what happens. The problem is, like Don said, is it continues to look the same. And that's damning for the coach because some of the faces are different, yet the results and the look is the same. And. And that falls on the coach with that in mind. So I think we're all in agreement here because there is a. All day today, there's been a push about Jackson Dart, but we're all in agreement this is not a good idea because if I'm looking at that team, that team's not going to be saved by. By. By a young quarterback who's never taken a snap in the NFL this early in the season yet. I agree, but I'm saying in the first month, that kid should not be on the field unless he's needed. He should not be a starter right now.

Kurt Warner (17:36)

So.

Alan Hahn (17:37)

Not that he can't. It's not the best thing for him.

Don La Greca (17:40)

We saw with the jets, and what's.

Alan Hahn (17:41)

Best for him should come before what's best for the team.

Don La Greca (17:43)

And that's why you got to be careful with the preseason, because you look at the jets preseason, you're like, how the jets going to move the football and they just scored 32 points. Should have been 34 if they didn't go for two. We'll get into that in a second.

Alan Hahn (17:52)

We got a lot there.

Don La Greca (17:53)

But the point is, is that that also works to positives as well. Like. All right, well, that's what Jackson Dart looked like. Doesn't mean he's necessarily going to look like that in the big games. Here's why you don't get crazy, overreacting. And that's why I agree that Russell Wilson's got to start against Dallas because Dallas doesn't have the defense that Washington does. So now you see what it looks like in week two. All right? Because, listen, as much as it pains me to say, the Commanders are a legit super bowl team. So you lost to a legit super bowl team in their building, 21 6. Okay, so you don't want to get that crazy. We're getting crazy because we know better. We've seen the same act for the last three years, but you got to give it another. Now you got Dallas. All right, Dallas look good against Philadelphia, but they don't have a great defense. They just lost their best defensive player in a trade. If it looks ugly again against Dallas and you've got Kansas City looming, that's.

Alan Hahn (18:46)

When I'd go to. I'd go to Winston.

Don La Greca (18:48)

Then. Then you start making a change.

Alan Hahn (18:49)

That's your home opener. It's not a Monday night.

Don La Greca (18:51)

At some point, Allen, they're going to go to Dart.

Alan Hahn (18:55)

Oh, no.

Don La Greca (18:56)

I don't agree with it, but it's so. Because you know they're going to.

Alan Hahn (18:59)

But you can't. I implore them, not too soon, because.

Don La Greca (19:04)

I got to tell you, you know, you don't beat Dallas and it doesn't look good, and then you got Kansas City coming in, maybe an 02 football team, right?

Alan Hahn (19:12)

So, by the way, they didn't look great.

Don La Greca (19:13)

They're not going to go 03. So now you're 03, and then all of a sudden all that Charger game doesn't look as winnable now, does it? Because they look fantastic in Brazil against the Chiefs. Now, you're 04 by that. I'm telling you, if they're 04 and the offense doesn't function, Jackson Dart is going to be your starting quarterback against the New Orleans Saints. It's just going to happen.

Alan Hahn (19:31)

That's so.

Don La Greca (19:32)

Whether you don't like it, that's what's eventually going to happen. Because at 04 now, you're circling the wagons right now. You're trying to save your ass, and that's what they're going to try to do, and they're going to ask Jackson Dart to go out there and do it. So it's at least at some point.

Allen Bestwick (19:44)

But maybe by the time you get to that point, guys, because you're good with it. No, let's not forget that it is week one. There is a world in which the offensive line gets slightly better.

Don La Greca (19:53)

All right, well, listen, if Thomas comes back and then they. That's a huge piece. Not a great defense against Dallas, you start scoring some points, maybe you start.

Allen Bestwick (20:00)

To feel a little better.

Don La Greca (20:01)

But if they. If they don't do anything against Dallas and you know they're not going to do anything against Kansas City, now the Charger game looks like that's going to be a law. Now you're on four. What are we doing?

Alan Hahn (20:09)

But.

Allen Bestwick (20:10)

But wouldn't you still. Wouldn't the change. I think the change still would have to be Winston first. I would not want to rush it to Dart. If you don't think he'd be protected.

Don La Greca (20:17)

Well, let's see. Because. Is he going to leapfrog over dart because if you're 04 and dart's been the backup to Wilson the entire first month is all of a sudden a guy that hasn't been active is going to jump in and be the starting.

Allen Bestwick (20:29)

Quarterback by the way.

Don La Greca (20:30)

Or do you start to see.

Allen Bestwick (20:31)

I was going to say what's the major harm though if you're the Giants this week what's the harm in making the change in making Winston the backup and putting Darton street clothes and he still gets to wear a headset and be on the sideline like what does it matter? Why does he have to you want.

Alan Hahn (20:46)

Him as a backup.

Allen Bestwick (20:47)

Why?

Alan Hahn (20:47)

Well, number one I thought they might use him in certain situations but that.

Allen Bestwick (20:52)

Never happened and that's not worthwhile. That wouldn't be enough of a reason in my opinion to do it.

Alan Hahn (20:55)

Especially if he's. If there's a specialty that he's just got already under control. Red zone, which we didn't see. But I also think it's important for him to be live headset engaged in the game. I think they want that.

Don La Greca (21:09)

Yeah.

Allen Bestwick (21:10)

That's why you can't do that without playing like he has to be in uniform.

Alan Hahn (21:15)

When you got the uniform it's different. It's got to be. It's just different. You're.

Allen Bestwick (21:19)

But you play him plus as a.

Don La Greca (21:21)

Backup you will get reps with the ones during as you're working out. I understand a lot of it's a logistics.

Allen Bestwick (21:29)

Exactly.

Alan Hahn (21:30)

You're that you're trying to say that if Russ looks bad again you shouldn't write to Dart quickly go right.

Allen Bestwick (21:36)

Not unless you feel he could be protected.

Alan Hahn (21:37)

Yeah.

Allen Bestwick (21:38)

Otherwise you have Winston.

Alan Hahn (21:39)

You're saying put Winston in next.

Don La Greca (21:41)

I get that we keep talking about don't put this kid until he's ready. But before the first game of the season they announced him as the backup quarterback. So why would you put somebody that's not ready as the backup quarterback? Russell Wilson, 36 years old and Zig instead of his AGs and all of a sudden now he's my start.

Alan Hahn (21:59)

I can answer that. Nobody's saying the kid's not ready. This team's not ready.

Allen Bestwick (22:04)

But then why have him Don's point then why announce him as the backup if you don't if you think he's not going to be safe back.

Don La Greca (22:10)

Do you real do I understand everything you're saying, Alan. But your backup quarterback is one play away from being your starting. So how could you be not ready or the team not be ready? But we're one play from throwing you out there.

Alan Hahn (22:23)

I get it. I get it.

Don La Greca (22:24)

We're going to get to your calls. We're going to get specific to the jets, too, because there was a lot of good, some not great, but still, you got to be flying high. If you're a Jet fan, you thought your offense was going to be flying high. Three yards in a cloud of dust. You score two points against a good defense for a Jet. You functioned. You actually went out there, you played football, you completed passes, you. You ran through holes, you blocked, occasionally tackled. It was a football game. I watched the Jets. It was a football game.

Alan Hahn (22:48)

Functional football.

Allen Bestwick (22:48)

The Giants wasn't football.

Don La Greca (22:50)

The Giants. You know what the Giants were like the World League of American Football. It was like I was watching a Sacramento Surge play. Good pull so you can feel good because you're a damn football team. I'm a balloon painted like a football and you got to pick it up and it pops.

Allen Bestwick (23:09)

It's not a football.

Don La Greca (23:10)

It's not a football. You know what it is? It's fraudulent. It's paper mache. It's garbage. You have it. There's an actual football. You lost the game and it's a football.

Alan Hahn (23:18)

It.

Don La Greca (23:18)

It's. It's leather. It's got laces.

Alan Hahn (23:21)

It.

Don La Greca (23:21)

There's air in it. That's what we're talking about. I could talk about the jets because it's a team.

Allen Bestwick (23:29)

At least it looked like it.

Don La Greca (23:31)

At least for. At least for a week. At least for a day.

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Peter Rosenberg (24:08)

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

Allen Bestwick (24:11)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Peter Rosenberg (24:13)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don La Greca (24:20)

Game time is brought to you by Tell More. Do Irish Whiskey because when it's game time fell.

Alan Hahn (24:36)

I like when he holds it.

Don La Greca (24:37)

Mets open their series with the Phillies. Coverage immediately following us on 880 at 6:05. Yankees have the night off. And in Chicago, it's the Bears and the Vikings. Yes, Tullamore du the original triple Distilled triple one did in triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore do or try the Tullamore Dew Honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Somebody who's going to be on that call tonight is Kurt Warner. And we've talked about it, Peter, even going back to the K show, how great we think he is as an analyst. It's always fun listening to hear him do the Monday night games when. When I'm in the car. And former Giant and Super bowl champion as well. And he joins us here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

Allen Bestwick (25:15)

Kurt.

Don La Greca (25:16)

Don legreca, Alan Hahn and Peter Rosenberg. How are you?

Kurt Warner (25:19)

I'm doing great. How you guys doing?

Don La Greca (25:21)

I wish I was better because I'm a Giant fan and I opened the show.

Alan Hahn (25:25)

Kurt.

Don La Greca (25:26)

I opened the show. I knew it's September, but I wasn't sure what year could be 23, 24, 25. Because it looked a lot like what we've seen from the Giants. And that's what's just so disappointing. You change personnel and it looks a lot the same. I don't know how much you were able to dive into a Kurt, but how much is it personnel, the loss of Andrew Thomas, or how much does it fall on the coaches when it looks that inept?

Kurt Warner (25:50)

Yeah, yeah, I was disappointed in watching it. I actually think Coach Day Ball is a really good coach and. And I've seen him be really innovative in the past, you know, specifically when he was in Buffalo and then maybe early with the Giants, you know, and I know a lot of people right now are like, oh, go to the young guy. Russell Wilson wasn't very good. Well, when I went back and watched the tape, there wasn't a whole lot out there to be had for the quarterback. And I'm looking at it and you can have your opinion on who Russell is at this point in his career, but that game was not on Russell. There was not many opportunities. There were not a lot of guys open in this game. And so it was disappointing because I actually thought, you know, the defense was going to be better and you got some playmakers on offense. And I expected it to look a lot better than it did. And, you know, Washington just had a lot of guys covered up. And whether that was scheme oriented in terms of, you know, being more creative and finding ways or whether it was guys not being able to separate and get open, it was, you know, disappointing. When I went back and watched the film, I expected to at least see some Opportunities and some of that creativity. It, you know, I just didn't see it. That I know, you know, Coach Daboll's, you know, he's capable of.

Alan Hahn (27:07)

Kurt, I know you have the game tonight, so first and foremost, thanks for doing this now when you are obviously preparing for a game tonight, really appreciate it because the timing of this is so perfect for our show, especially what you're just talking about, because there's so much talk, as you said about, and it really was starting in the preseason. Jackson Dart has to start now. You have to put him in there now. The time is now. And what you said is why I think they shouldn't do it now. Because it was just quarterback play. It's a different story. But it felt like the offensive line was very leaky. It looked like Russ didn't trust anything happening in front of his feet. And so would that not be, in your opinion, the worst situation to put a rookie quarterback into at this, especially this early in the season?

Kurt Warner (27:52)

I think the first thing obviously that you have to ask is where is Jackson Dart? And if you feel like he's close to Russell Wilson, I think that's the first place it always starts is do you think the kid is. Is ready to play? But, you know, let's say you think that he is and you go back and watch this game. And I go, okay, now Jackson darts in there. And it played out the way that it did. Now, what's everybody saying about Jackson Dart? Oh, you know, he's not ready and he's a young guy, but it really wasn't about the quarterback. So, you know, that's. I think the thing that we forget is that we're going to look at the guy that's in there when they don't have a good performance and say, well, it's about that guy. But then I think the third piece of the equation is simply who do you think Russell Wilson is at this point in his career? What is he capable of doing? And is there something that you can do offensively that Jackson Dart gives you that Russell doesn't give you that can maybe help your offense be better? And so that's the third part of the equation that you always have to ask. If you say, well, if this is how we have to play with Russell Wilson and this is what it looks like, maybe we do have to go to the young guy because there's a few different elements that we can bring that is going to help what this team is right now offensively to be better. And so all of those things Make. Make a lot of sense. And so you've got to figure out really, you know, who you are, who these quarterbacks are, and what gives your team the best chance to succeed at this point in time, while also giving your young quarterback a chance to succeed, because you don't want to put him in there if the things around him aren't ready to be successful, especially here in the beginning of the season when you know they've got some tough, tough games that they're going to be playing. And so that's the other thing. You always want your young guy to have success. You want the first impression to be success for your fan base, your organization, and of course, for his.

Allen Bestwick (29:59)

Well, the first impression wasn't a W for the jets, but if we're having our overreaction to the Giants, let's have a nice overreaction to Justin Fields, who looked pretty good yesterday. What did you see there and what do you generally think, just from what you know about Fields in general, what do you think the ceiling is for Justin Fields here with the Jets?

Kurt Warner (30:18)

I think what we all know about him is that he's an incredible playmaker, and you saw that on display yesterday. You know, his ability to run the football, his ability off schedule to make different kinds of throws. You know, going into the game, what I've believed about Justin is that he's got to get better at seeing and processing the game faster and playing on schedule. Now, he made some plays on schedule in this game. He still doesn't look fully comfortable to me in that role, but I don't think that's who they're going to be offensively. So if they can have this kind of success while Justin continues to grow and learn the offense and hopefully get better in that role, I'm interested to see how it's going to play out. But he's a playmaker, there's no question about that. He's got a live arm that can do some things, you know, that very special from that perspective. So I thought it was a really, really good first impression of how they're going to play football and the fact that within some of the scheme, I thought Justin made some really, really nice plays throwing it.

Don La Greca (31:26)

We're talking to Kurt Warner. They've got the Monday night game, Vikings and the Bears tonight, and. Yeah. So how do you feel because you've been in the situation, Kurt, that Rogers was in yesterday, taking on his old team, having kind of a chip on your shoulder, what do you think that was like for him to be able to. To Go to the place that let him go and throw four touchdown passes.

Kurt Warner (31:49)

Well, I mean, it's always special. Now, he wasn't there very long, but, I mean, let's just be honest, you guys know in the New York media that everything really became about Aaron Rodgers. And the reason they didn't have success had a lot to do with what people said about Aaron Rodgers, whether it was as a player or as the person and all of that stuff. I don't know what's true and what's not true from that perspective, but that was, you know, that was all we heard for two years, you know, and then, you know, the crazy situation that they flew him in for 20 minutes to tell him they were going to go a different. I mean, like, that's crazy stuff. And so I know that there was a part of Aaron, big picture wise, that was saying, okay, what happened in New York is not who I am, so I want to show the world that I can still play football. What happened in New York was not all my fault. There was a lot of dysfunction there that I was a part of. And yes, they expected me to kind of overcome that, but with the injury and everything, I couldn't overcome that. So I want to show people that as well that what happened in New York wasn't me. And then, you know, and so there's no question that going into games like that, you know, with former teams and like I said, because of some of the things that were being said about, you know, he can't play anymore. And it was a lot on him not living up to the billing, you know, that it was sweet to go back into that place to get the win and then to play the way that he did, because I guarantee you that everybody's looking around now going, okay, where was this guy the last two years? I mean, if he still got this capability, why didn't we see any of that? Were they. And so now I think the narrative starts to change a little bit because you saw how well he played and what, you know, he's so capable of doing. And now you start to think, okay, so what did go wrong? And maybe it wasn't all about Aaron and the fact that, that he couldn't play at this level the last couple years. So, yeah, I think he won from a lot of. Of different standpoints yesterday.

Alan Hahn (33:57)

And he certainly let everybody know about it here in New York, too. Hey, Kurt, I know you were in Brazil. You called the game the Chiefs and the Chargers, and that was a bit of a surprise in what the Chiefs looked Like, and then last night, Buffalo, Baltimore gave us a game of the ages on the very first Sunday night of the season. Has. Has Josh and Lamar moved ahead of Mahomes here? Like, is there going to be a bit of a changing of the game guard in the AFC this year from what you've seen so far?

Kurt Warner (34:29)

You know, it's always tough to do one game. And, you know, with the Chiefs, the thing that is the caveat offensively is Rasheed Rice. We saw him just glimpses in preseason that he was healthy and he was going good and he's their main guy and he was out. And then the guy that kind of does what Rashid does in their offense and has really kind of taken on that role role was Xavier worthy. You know, no talking to Coach Reed that they had a heavy plan for him because he was bummed. Coach Reed was bummed that he didn't get him more touches in the super bowl and was disappointed in his play calling from that perspective. So I knew he was going to be a big part of what they were doing. And then he gets hurt on the third play of the game, so he's out. And so now I think a lot of their game plan, you know, changed in that game. Now, they didn't look great from that perspective. Again, one of the things that we talked about with, with the group all week long is they were talking about being more aggressive and getting the big plays back into their offense, something that had been missing for the last couple years and felt good with their receivers. And I felt early in the game they were almost trying to do that a little bit too much. And then once they got away from that later in the game and went back to more of their short passing game and controlling the clock, I thought they looked a lot better, even though, you know, a lot of room to grow on offense and defense. But I thought they looked a lot better. And so that's my first caveat is I don't think this is going to be the team the Chiefs are going to be. Once we get midway through the season and Rice is back and Xavier's back and you still have the pieces that you have. I think they're going to be a much better football team. But with all that being said, I think the Ravens, you know, as a lot of people have said, is the best roster in football. They've got all the pieces. I mean, Lamar is special in whatever you ask him to do. Derrick Henry's a beast that I just think they have the best roster in football and they didn't disappoint last night, putting up 40 points and really dominating that game offensively for a lot of the game. And so the crazy things that happen and so I still think they're the best team. Now it's going to come down to. And I know I hate to make it just quarterback versus quarterback, but it's going to come down to Lamar against Josh and Patrick in the big moment, and he's going to have to have, you know, one of his type of games in the moment for them to get overhunt. So we know that's going to happen. But I think they're the best team in the afc. And I was really impressed with Buffalo, you know, that Josh is. Is really good. And in a margin of error for a guy like that, we're really, both those quarterbacks is extremely high. You know, I went back and watched the tape and I thought there was a bunch of stuff on the tape that, that, you know, Josh missed in terms of like on schedule throwing, but he just makes up for with all the unbelievable things that he does. And, you know, then in that game, I think there was three, maybe three passes that could have been intercepted and then the fourth down play that gets tipped around and becomes, you know, a touchdown. Like, yeah, just everything went right down the stretch for Buffalo that could easily, you know, close the door very early now. Great comeback. They made a lot of plays and Josh is special, but, you know, lots of stuff had to go right for them to win that football game. But I. But I really liked, you know, their resilience. I like the playmakers. I liked how their defensive line, Oliver and company played. So I think they're going to be in the mix and they're really good. So after the first week, there's no question I put the Chiefs down below those two football teams with what I saw. I just don't believe what we saw from the Chiefs is going to be the finished product that we're going to see, you know, come midway through the year and, you know, assuming they make the playoffs in the playoffs, it's a long year.

Don La Greca (38:25)

I know you're busy. Thanks so much. Good luck tonight.

Alan Hahn (38:27)

Thank you, Kurt.

Kurt Warner (38:28)

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it, guys.

Don La Greca (38:29)

Thanks. Kurt Warner is always great. There's a great job on the NFL Network and West was one. He'll have the call tonight.

Alan Hahn (38:34)

Interesting what he said, though, about the giant quarterback situation in Jackson Dart. I thought he'd be a little more affirmative about stick with Wilson, but he left a caveat there of why you could go to Dart sooner rather than later.

Don La Greca (38:50)

Because if it's just not working, you might as well get a glimpse of your future.

Alan Hahn (38:53)

You think he's at the same level as Ross?

Don La Greca (38:56)

But he did say that none of, not none of it, but a lot of that was not Wilson's fault. So I'm not sure Dart would have done better. Maybe he would have. I guess we're going to find out. Probably sooner than later. Got to get to the jets of it all. 1-800-919-3776, number the call there. Jets had a good day. There was some things that they, I'm sure they want to clean up, but overall, at least in my opinion, you got to feel pretty good about what you saw. We've got Don Hanna, Rosenberg take you up until 6 o' clock and then it's Mets baseball, Mets and Phillies right here on ESPN New York.

Allen Bestwick (39:25)

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Peter Rosenberg (40:08)

For listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Allen Bestwick (40:11)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Peter Rosenberg (40:12)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don La Greca (40:20)

All right, I'm gonna let Allen take the the role of this one because it's his team. But just as somebody that didn't have a dog in the fight, I was impressed with the Jets. I didn't know if they were going to be able to do anything offensively and I saw a team go up against a really good defensive team in Pittsburgh and and score 32 points. Now the defense left a little bit to be desired. That first touchdown drive by Pittsburgh, they converted two third and tens. You don't Want that. You want to be able to get off the field. And they had the turnover on special teams. It wasn't clean and it was a game they probably should have won. But Allen, I don't want to put words in your.

Alan Hahn (40:54)

You do you.

Don La Greca (40:56)

But you function. You played well. You didn't win. But I think there's a lot of things there to get excited about.

Alan Hahn (41:01)

Well, here's the thing. Excited is a little strong. Okay. Because what happens sometimes is we're so used to being bad that mediocre feels like excellent. And we've got to understand that that's. Now, you said something before the show and you're right. You got to take that baby step out of, you know, dysfunction into function. We all know last year was complete dysfunction. It was a disaster. So I understand that seeing it function is a good thing. So I'm not saying that it was nothing good to come out of it because look, fifth most total yards in the entire league. The jets had.

Don La Greca (41:36)

Yeah. 14. That was going to. Ground and pound offense has been a.

Alan Hahn (41:40)

Struggle for this franchise for many years. And so the third most yards per play like they were tied with Buffalo. And Buffalo's offense looked insane yesterday. Right. So fourth most rushing yards. 13 of their 23 first downs were on the ground like they were. They were able. And I said before, win the line of scrimmage battle. So they held Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh couldn't run. They forced him to throw. They could not run on the jets. And the jets ran roughshod on a Pittsburgh defense. That is going to be a good. That's a good defense. They got a lot of brand names.

Don La Greca (42:12)

It appears to be. Yeah.

Alan Hahn (42:14)

Now, so I'll go through all that and I'll say that was great. But when it comes to same old issues, two failed two point conversions and not even a chance.

Don La Greca (42:28)

Right.

Alan Hahn (42:30)

You get. Of course the Gibson fumble turned the whole game around. I'm not breaking news there. And the fact that he ended up being the guy running. Running back. The other kid got hurt early in the game. Who knows if that happens. But he's carrying the bread right there. I mean you're. That that's just poor technique.

Don La Greca (42:46)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (42:46)

He can't carry the ball on that side. Everybody knows that. Two picks that should have been interceptions dropped little details, little things. And then of course you get. You lose on a 60 yarder. I mean, damn, what are you gonna do about that 60 yarder? But I don't like the Quincy Williams penalty. You go from what should have been a second and 12 on their 30 to a first and 10 on the 45. And now that drive turns into a quick score. So there's little things that they did. The self inflicting wounds continued and those are the parts that bother me. You understand?

Don La Greca (43:25)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (43:26)

And so for me, I can't get excited or I can't get. I can't call it exciting when I see the same issues that come up that if you tell me they'll get cleaned up. I've heard coaches say that before and they never do. So yes, they look like a functioning team. I thought Angstrom had a really good game offensively. He called a good game. The running game showed you they can bully teams with that offensive line and poke open holes. Breece hall looked like he was motivated and determined. All those nice things, the Rodgers stuff, I don't care. Four touchdown.

Don La Greca (44:02)

Great.

Alan Hahn (44:03)

Good for you. I am not emotionally connected to that story at all. I couldn't understand. The Post had the back page. Now he can play well. Come on. Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Rogers, like was. He was fine. He wasn't great. He was fine.

Allen Bestwick (44:16)

He was fine. But he threw four touchdowns. One's a shuffle pass, whatever. That's what I mean, it's still, it's.

Alan Hahn (44:21)

Still like, like again, I think the, the numbers they put up was good. All that stuff was good. But I won't truly start to feel like this thing's heading in the right direction until those stupid self inflicted mistakes that give wins away. They were winning that game. They were in control of that game at home. Put it away.

Allen Bestwick (44:41)

No, they lost it.

Alan Hahn (44:42)

They didn't have that. And that is where I look at the coach and I say, see, this is what you've inherited and you've got to fix this.

Don La Greca (44:50)

Well, you're not going to clean it up in one day.

Alan Hahn (44:52)

But he had all summer. I know, but this was a point of emphasis, Don.

Don La Greca (44:55)

No, it was a point of emphasis. And he talked after the game or was asked, how do you feel or how do you fix the penalties and discipline?

Jets Coach (45:01)

If you look at the penalties that we've had, all right, I think think last year we led the league in false start penalties and illegal formation penalties. Like we had one of those penalties yesterday. I think Tyler had a false start. So the plan is actually working the way that we want to work. It's just man, we have to continue to nip all those things in the bud. For the past two years we let the league in penalties. So when you go out, you don't have one false start penalty. Listen, I think our guys been doing A hell of a job of trying to fix that, and we're going to continue to do that. Now we have to get ready to focus on. On some of these discipline penalties that we have had. It's not like we haven't focused on it, but, man, we have to make sure that we can't allow those things to happen because they, they will force you to lose games.

Don La Greca (45:38)

Now, don't get me wrong, you're right about everything that you say, but we went into the season thinking they were just going to ground and pound, that they were just going to have their quarterback be a game manager. And he went out there and I thought he did terrific. And they ran the ball and they worked with little weapons that they have passes.

Alan Hahn (45:55)

He's not. He didn't throw it around the field. He was 22 attempted passes like they, they were running the ball. They were grounded.

Don La Greca (46:00)

They run the ball, but when they threw the ball, they threw it.

Alan Hahn (46:03)

You know. You know, this was this, this was this a very similar, not obviously the same, but a very similar approach to what Mark Sanchez did when he was the quarterback. Okay, he would have game 16 to 22. He would do the same thing. Right. But play action where all of a sudden he tucks it now.

Don La Greca (46:17)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (46:17)

Where'd it go?

Don La Greca (46:19)

Sanchez had more weapons than. Than Fields had.

Alan Hahn (46:22)

Yeah.

Don La Greca (46:22)

I mean, you know.

Alan Hahn (46:25)

Clearly Taylor is the tight end of choice and clearly that kid's going to be their main target.

Don La Greca (46:29)

Sure.

Alan Hahn (46:29)

And he and Wilson are the two guys. By the way, the throw to Wilson at the end is another one.

Allen Bestwick (46:33)

That, that, that's. That's an annoying one.

Alan Hahn (46:35)

That's a tough one. Right? That's a tough one.

Allen Bestwick (46:37)

Which part of it, though? The fact that he threw it or the fact I think he should have held the ball first down keeping.

Don La Greca (46:41)

But here, here's.

Alan Hahn (46:42)

And you could tell that Jalen Ramsey, who was mouthing. They were mouthing all game. Ramsay was like, I'm gonna let this kid catch it so I can knock him the hell out.

Don La Greca (46:49)

Here's the challenge.

Alan Hahn (46:50)

That's what he did.

Don La Greca (46:50)

Here's the challenge that the jets offense is going to eventually have is that they were able to keep the Steelers off balance.

Alan Hahn (46:58)

Yes.

Don La Greca (46:59)

Until they couldn't like that. The second to last drive where they could have put the game away, they're three and out like they were running the ball. But when it came time, like, all right, you're going to run the ball. We know it and we're going to stop it. And then when they got down to the final possession, we Know you're going.

Alan Hahn (47:13)

To throw like those guys dialed up to tj. They dialed it up late in that game. I thought the Jet offensive line was most. That's a really good front. Pittsburgh's got a hell of a front and I thought the offensive line did such a good job. I wouldn't say they dominated line of scrimmage but they certainly held their ground.

Don La Greca (47:33)

But they were able.

Alan Hahn (47:34)

But late in that game they did.

Don La Greca (47:35)

Give way because then it became one dimensional. We know you're going to run the ball and they stopped it. We know you're going to pass the ball, we'll stop it. But they were able to keep them off balance during the game. Like hey, they probably came in thinking oh they're going to be running the ball. Surprise them a little few passes then you try to stop the pass will run. They were able to use that to their advantage quickly and we'll get to the calls on the other side is I didn't like the two point conversion. I understand the temptation because he moves it to the one yard line but now you're chasing not getting that too and you ended up losing. You end up losing by two. Right. But I just kick kick. I don't love it.

Allen Bestwick (48:10)

Not to sound like a fool but like does moving up to the 1 yard line mean that much? We know what a 2 point conversion is the number.

Alan Hahn (48:16)

The numbers do tell you.

Allen Bestwick (48:17)

I know the numbers do to go for it but. But if you weren't thinking about it prior to that you were going to be satisfied with the one. I don't think you get off your dean and change your plan because you.

Alan Hahn (48:26)

Moved up a yard ten ten, seven, nine seven.

Don La Greca (48:29)

But it's the, it's the analytics of it all. But we've talked about the two point conversion all the time Peter. Going back to the day of I don't want to SAP the momentum. Right. Remember that building was still 5050 as far as the fans were concerned. So they stopped the the two point conversion. Instead of walking off the field we just gave up a touchdown. They walk off the field hey, we just stopped the two point conversion and now you're chasing the two point and then it turns out that that ends up being the difference in the game Again. We don't know the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. I didn't like it in the moment. I'm not going to kill it because the analytics say it's a good idea and certainly if they score on it but I don't like going for two unless I have to. And I don't think in the first.

Alan Hahn (49:03)

Half you always early in a game.

Allen Bestwick (49:06)

But I'll end like this early in a game. When you decide to go for two, the risk does not seem worth the reward because when you get it, cool. When you don't get it, it's so deflating and then you're chasing it feels greedy. It feels greedy and unnecessary.

Alan Hahn (49:20)

Like you might know more. But I still say it. This is my last statement on that game. It took a 60 yard field goal to beat you.

Don La Greca (49:28)

Listen 60 and we say, we say it. We exaggerate.

Alan Hahn (49:32)

Steelers record. They've been around forever.

Don La Greca (49:34)

That one literally would have been good from 70. We always say that.

Alan Hahn (49:36)

Oh that would.

Don La Greca (49:37)

Oh yeah, he hit the net.

Alan Hahn (49:38)

Yeah, he had a bomb.

Allen Bestwick (49:41)

That's by the way.

Don La Greca (49:42)

And also let's not forget about the completion that ping ponged off two players like that wasn't nothing either that got up the ball the midfield. So couple of things didn't certainly go their way.

Peter Rosenberg (49:53)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Allen Bestwick (49:57)

I don't want to know how the.

Alan Hahn (49:58)

Sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

Peter Rosenberg (49:59)

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.