Hour 1: Seasons on the Brink?

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg

Episode: Hour 1: Seasons on the Brink?
Air Date: September 19, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg (not present in Hour 1)

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Overview

Hour 1 of "Seasons on the Brink?" is a football-centric, candid, and often blistering discussion of the dire state of New York football. Don La Greca and Alan Hahn dig in on what an 0-3 start for both the Giants and Jets would mean—not just for this season, but for the long-term health, relevance, and fan loyalty of football in the city. The discussion pulls in hard data, historical context, fan behavior, and the unique pressure-cooker climate of New York sports. Notably, the segment features passionate caller contributions, reflections on ownership dysfunction, and a sobering look at the risk of fan apathy.

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Key Points & Discussion Breakdown

1. Setting the Stakes: 0-3 is a Death Knell

Timestamps: 00:53–05:55

• Don opens with a sense of foreboding, noting that a double 0-3 start for the Giants and Jets would, by historical standards, end realistic playoff hopes.
• Alan reinforces the grim math: only "six times since 1990 has a team made the playoffs after an 0-3 start" [03:13].
• Discussion extends to the psychological toll: New York, the biggest media market, “is the football failure capital of the country.”
• They reflect that the seasonal goalpost for “relevance” has moved from “survive until Thanksgiving” to “please just still matter by Halloween.”

2. A Decade of Dysfunction and Dwindling Interest

Timestamps: 05:55–09:23

• Alan cites John Winthrop’s stat: the Jets (56) and Giants (57) have the fewest wins in the NFL since 2015.
  • “For you to be averaging less than six wins a season for a decade, you are seeing the erosion of interest in these teams.” — Don [07:02]
• They recall 1970s–80s NY teams, noting it was harder then to make the playoffs—yet somehow, things seem more hopeless now despite more spots.
• Don draws a connection between persistent losing and the growing number of younger fans rooting for out-of-market teams:
  • “So when you’re talking about a decade of bad football, Allen, how many kids aren’t rooting for the Jets and Giants like their dad did? They’re rooting for another team or, God forbid, just saying, why do I even get interested in football?” [08:36]

3. The Weight of New York & Inherited Futility

Timestamps: 09:23–13:38

• Alan laments that "the jerseys in this town are heavier than in any other town."
• New coaches (Aaron Glenn for Jets, Brian Daboll for Giants) inherit not just bad rosters, but decades of pain and impatience:
  • “Every coach that has taken over is picking up bad.” — Alan [11:09]
  • “You literally not seen your team in the postseason for 15 friggin years... 80% of your franchise was either not alive or too young to remember their last championship.” — Don [12:27]
• The hosts sympathize with fans burned by PSLs, stadium location, shared venue, and long commutes, concluding NY football fans “deserve better” [13:38].

4. Ownership Issues & Hopelessness at the Top

Timestamps: 15:24–18:38

• Other teams with chronic losing (e.g., Browns) at least only compete for attention with a few other teams; NY’s crowded sports landscape means irrelevance is quickly punished.
• Even given all that, Don wonders:
  • “How do you not get it right? ...There’s two of everything!"
• They agree the NFL at large doesn’t care about the NY teams’ dysfunction, since national/TV fan engagement is so easy now. “Accountability at the very top” is totally lacking.

5. Embarrassment, Ownership, and Fan Frustration

Timestamps: 18:38–22:17

• Don points to home games full of opposition fans as a new low. “How much red are you going to see on Sunday night, Allen, at MetLife Stadium?” [18:38]
• Discussion shifts to the futility of firing coaches/GMs while the real, persistent problem is ownership:
  • “When do you start realizing...maybe I'm doing a terrible job hiring the right people?” — Alan [19:53]
  • “If I see every face in the room has changed but mine over the last decade, then I guess it’s time to point the finger at me.” — Don [20:16]

6. The Threat of Apathy: Mad Is OK, “I Don’t Care” Is Fatal

Timestamps: 22:17–24:44

• Don and Alan agree: “I can deal with mad. I can’t deal with ‘I don’t care.’” — Don [22:17]
• The risk is fans simply stop showing up, even for free—leading to half-empty stadiums and a cycle of indifference.
• The only thing left to try, they joke: “bags over the head” and “visual embarrassment” [23:49].

7. Can New Leadership or a Savior Solve It?

Timestamps: 24:44–28:13

• Both franchises, in the hosts’ eyes, are waiting for “a savior,” be it coach, GM, or star player, to drag them out of the mud.
• They close the first hour challenging both teams: “You want to shut us up? Go out there. Jets and Giants win, right. Go to 1-2 and give us a reason to believe.” — Don [24:44]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don, on generational fan loss:

  “Are we gonna one day fast forward to there being less fans of these two teams?... So many ways to consume other sports and other teams. If this doesn't turn around soon, we're gonna see the erosion of two of the biggest fanbases in not just this city, but in the entire country.” [08:15]

• Alan, on New York fan suffering:

  “God bless all of you, I mean all of you, for going to these games and setting up your tailgates and getting excited about ... moral victory Monday, it’s the most embarrassing day of the week for a New York football fan.” [13:38]

• Don, on accountability:

  “If I see every face in the room has changed but mine... then I guess it's time to point the finger at me. And we're talking about ownership.” [20:16]

• Alan, on apathy:

  “As a franchise…you can’t just be like, well, at least our diehards will be there. But you don’t want that.” [22:13]

• Don, on fan apathy vs. anger:

  “I can deal with mad. I can't deal with, I don't care. And that's what we're getting to the point of where Giants and Jet fans, after another look, they're just not going to be mad. They're not going to care anymore. Apathy is something I can't... That's not good sports radio.” [22:17]

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Selected Caller Interactions

Dave (Giants fan):

Timestamps: 32:05–34:46

• Realistic about the season, only wants to see rookie QB Jackson Dart play: “The whole season is: is Jackson Dart our quarterback for the next 10 years? Or is he not?” [32:13]
• Fine with losing if Dart develops, wants regime changed otherwise: "Marriage should be able to know that this, this guy's a pretty damn good quarterback. But…Daboll’s got to get out of there.” [33:37]
• Don and Alan debate when it's right to insert Dart, balancing development with not ruining him behind a bad offensive line.

Griffin (football/baseball):

Timestamps: 49:06–51:25

• Expresses doubt Giants can “stay close” with the (struggling) but desperate Chiefs, worries especially about OL health and defensive pass rush.
• Brief baseball sidebar on the Guardians’ improbable division comeback, used by hosts to highlight unpredictable swings in sports.

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Ownership Dysfunction: Breaking It Down

Timestamps: 43:10–48:45

• Don: Mara and Johnson both want to win, but simply lack the know-how.
• Alan: The true path forward—find the best, “give them the job and get out of the way.”
• Don: Giants tradition of “only hiring people with organizational ties” (e.g., Tom Coughlin only after prior coaching stint with NYG).
• Both hosts agree: The NFL’s biggest off-field problem—owners who meddle, rather than empower proven winners.

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Final Thoughts as Hour 1 Closes

• The Giants’ issues are systemic and historical, and new management styles may be required.
• The Hour closes with the hope that one or both teams can at least show "evidence of progress"—not necessarily wins, but competence, development and competitiveness.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:53 — Main football discussion begins: season on the brink
• 03:13 — 0-3 “death knell” playoff stats
• 05:55 — Decade of losing: stats on wins since 2015
• 09:23 — The weight of New York, impatience, fan alienation
• 13:38 — The unique suffering/loyalty of NY football fans
• 18:38 — Embarrassment at MetLife: stadium filled by opponents’ fans
• 20:16 — Ownership: “point the finger at me” for decade-long losing
• 22:17 — The danger of fan apathy eclipsing anger
• 24:44 — "Waiting for a savior" analysis
• 32:05 — Caller Dave, rookie QB development, regime change
• 41:06 — Andrew Thomas (OT) injury update and impact on Giants
• 43:10 — On ownership and failed attempts at “not meddling”
• 49:06 — Caller Griffin on Giants-Chiefs prospects, baseball aside

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Tone & Style

• Banter is sharp, exasperated, but rooted in deep New York fandom and loyalty.
• Equal parts stats, history, and personal experience; often passionate, sometimes resigned.
• No sugar-coating: The mood is urgent, bordering on existential dread about NY football’s trajectory.

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Summary in a Nutshell

Don and Alan argue it's not hyperbole—another losing weekend likely means not only another lost season, but more permanent damage to the fanbase and franchise reputations for both NY football teams. Ownership ineptitude and a decade of failure have them forecasting not just anger, but dangerously rising apathy. The ultimate message: New York sports fans deserve better, but may not get it until the right changes are made at the very top.

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Transcript

[Don Hahn]

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[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

Han, there's a lot of women out there that want you.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Alan and Rosenberg.

[Don Hahn]

Give me the porn. For God's sake. This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Alan Rosenberg]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Don Hahn]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Alan Rosenberg]

880 ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Don Hahn]

Happy Friday, everybody. It's kind of a throwback Friday, right? It feels like it's the middle of July that we should be talking about the jets and Giants. Giants first preseason game, not a week three. It's gorgeous outside. 85 degrees, beautiful. It's going to get cooler as the weekend goes on, but what a glorious Friday. Han, how are you?

[Alan Rosenberg]

I'm good. I propose we do the show out by the pool.

[Don Hahn]

You know, we have the technology.

[Alan Rosenberg]

We have the technology. Why can't we do that? I'd say during the break, we grab the. Whatever, all the apparatus. We're on YouTube. Everybody can watch us on the S Pen New York YouTube channel. Pound that subscribed button. Like we can literally do this. Don, I think we should. We can. Feet in the pool while we do the show.

[Don Hahn]

The only issue that we have is, is once the kids get home from school, that's where they're going. So you hear splashing and screaming and. And inevitably you'll then hear Nancy screaming at the kids. I don't know if it would make for tremendous radio or television. So I guess we probably got to hunker down in our studios here and talk some football, man. I know we got baseball and, you know, we were talking about during the meeting, Mets and Yankees are in. I know. Not mathematically, but, you know, the Giants lost again last night, so, you know, the Mets are pretty. I think they're in good shape. They got the Nationals coming up at Citi Field, and if you lose to the Nationals, you don't deserve to go anyway. And I know they dropped two out of three in Washington last month, but, you know, obviously to keep an eye on it and The Yankees magic number is 6. They can get it down to basically they can clinch this weekend if they sweep and the Guardians lose their games. So there'll be plenty of time to get into the baseball as we enter the second to last weekend of the regular season. But it's a football Friday, Allen, and tell me I'm wrong that if we come on the air on Monday talking about another loss for the giants and jets, an 03 start for both of these teams, how are we supposed to then have a conversation about there really being any kind of a season, honestly, especially if the Giants get blown out. If they both get blown out or non competitive. I know the jets schedule, you know, gets easier, but at 03, Allen, how are we going to be able to articulate them still being relevant?

[Alan Rosenberg]

You can't. No. This feels like the potential I gave the numbers yesterday. It's six times and since 1993 team made the playoffs. Right, six times. So we know it's, it's, it's a death knell for a season. And the problem is, of course is that it's too early in the season to do that. But we know what this, what the numbers tell you. And so it does feel like the, this could be the last significant game of the season for one or both of the New York football teams. And Donnie, the history is telling us that like, like we're, this is a big, it's the biggest market right in the country and yet when it comes to football, it's the biggest failure market in the country. It's amazing. NFL is such a huge thing. Everybody loves football and every Sunday everybody's all in. But why is it that before we even get to fall, officially fall, which we're three days away from, we can't even get to the autumnal equinox without having the football season. You know, that doesn't make any sense, but every year it feels like that's where we are.

[Don Hahn]

Well, we lowered the bar to remember it was just play meaningful games. Be alive at Thanksgiving right now it's like, you know, be alive at Halloween. Halloween would be nice now. You know, you'll be alive for the start of the baseball post season. You know, that's where we're at. You know, be alive for September 30th. You know, when we're doing the couch cast on the 29th for Jets Dolphins, you know, is it just going to be like a mini wake slash funeral for what is going to be the 25 season? And it's not hyperbole. Listen, we're both around the same age. And so we grew up with football in the 70s and it was bad for both the jets and the Giants.

[Alan Rosenberg]

It was.

[Don Hahn]

But being bad back in the 70s and 80s, Allen it was still kind of hard to make the playoffs. Wasn't easy. But since they've added that third wild card, really in both baseball and football, you know, you don't have to be that great to be alive in December and late in the season. You don't even have to be that great to make the playoffs. So I wonder how many times with the jets and Giants have found a way to get into the playoffs. Back when they were, you know, brutal. Back in the 70s when they were, you know, when all these teams make the playoffs, it was hard back then. You had to win your division, maybe sneak a wild card and that was basically it. Now with all these divisions and the extra wild cards you got, you know, 14 to 32 teams going to the playoffs. So it's a lot easier. And yet it's a, it's beyond the reach of these two teams. It's ridiculous.

[Alan Rosenberg]

John Winthrop gave us the stat during our meeting and I wrote it down because when he said it I'm like that just doesn't make sense. The jets since 2015. So over the last 10 years of football the jets have the least amount of wins. 56. 56, the least amount of wins. But just do the math. 56, how many wins per year is that on average? I mean they, it's, it's like it's.

[Don Hahn]

5.6 wins and that includes a 10.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Win season at the very start of it.

[Don Hahn]

So if they're going to be on their way to another, you know, four or five win season, then the 10 win season in 15, Todd Bowles first year then leaves the equation and that is going to drop the average down lower. The Giants over that same span have won 57 games. Now they did go to the playoffs a couple of times. The 11 win team in 16, they were embarrassed in Lambeau and the 22 team that won nine games in the 17 game season did win a playoff game and then got embarrassed in Philadelphia.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Think about what you just said. 57 wins in 10 years. 20 of them came in two of those 10 years. Right.

[Don Hahn]

And then when we. Yeah, so it's what? No, it's. For you to be averaging less than six wins a season for a decade, you are seeing the erosion of interest in these teams. Now. I don't have any, I don't have any equation for you. I don't have any statistics to back this up? All right, but see if you follow me. I remember. I remember doing a show at Tiki Barber a long, long time ago at the beginning of this radio station. And he asked me, why are so many Cowboy fans in New York? And I said, well, because for a long time the Giants were bad. The Cowboys were always on national television and people were fed up of, you know, rooting for bad football in New York. So they decided to gravitate to a good team. That's why there's so many Steeler fans. Everybody knows a Steeler fan. Everybody knows a Cowboy fan. Everybody knows a Raider fan. Everybody's got fans of football that root for other people, other teams, right? I mean, Gordon Damer worked at this radio station for a long time. He's a Dolphins fan. You know, I know people that root for teams outside the market because, you know, they don't tolerate bad football. And that was back when it was hard to get anything but the jets and Giants. You know how easy it is right now, Allen, to root for a team 3,000 miles away? Hey, I can get the Sunday ticket. I can turn on. I could turn on the red zone. So many games. There's a Thursday night game, you know, there's the Friday to kick off the season. They're going to be playing Saturday games soon. So I could root for a team outside the market, not even have the NFL Sunday ticket, and still see my team seven, eight times during the course of the year, not counting the times they might play the jets and Giants. So when you're talking about a decade of bad football, Allen, how many kids aren't rooting for the jets and Giants like their dad did? They're rooting for another team or God forbid, just saying, why do I even get interested in football? I'm going to go get interested in something else. Are we gonna one day fast forward to there being less fans of these two teams? It sounds ridiculous, but between the PSLs, how they've alienated a lot of season ticket holders, throw bad football on top of that. So many different ways to consume other sports and other teams. If this doesn't turn around soon, we're gonna see the erosion of two of the biggest fan bases in not just this city, but in the entire country. The actual erosion of it. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Alan Rosenberg]

No, you're not wrong. And the problem with the teams, like, there's nowhere else to look. There's nowhere else to blame. There's. It's not about. It's not a generational Thing. It simply is because these are two franchises that have been poorly run for the better part of a decade, and they have made terrible decisions. They can't maintain leadership. They have not drafted well. There's just a lot that is going on with these two franchises that when Aaron Glenn took the job and thought, oh, I did this in Detroit. I was there. I saw what Dan Campbell did. We can do that there. And then he gets here and he realizes this is a different thing. This is. And this is not a New York, you know, we're better than everybody thing. This is just a real take. Everything you do in this town is different than anywhere else. It's harder here. I always talk about, like, years ago, I had this phrase that I always said, used to say about the New York teams, the jerseys in this town are heavier than in any other town. I don't care. I know the Dallas Cowboys have a lot of pressure and intensity also. I get it. It's still different. I don't care. It's still different when you work here, when you try to run a franchise here. And the case in point is Aaron Glenn's in his first year. He's two weeks in. And one of the diehard fans of the. Of the franchise's history was calling up on Monday, our good friend Ira, saying, he's already out on him like. Like this. You can't. You can't turn things around quickly in this town when you're picking up a franchise that's bad. Every coach that has taken over is picking up bad.

[Don Hahn]

Now, I'll believe it when I see it if Ira's actually out.

[Alan Rosenberg]

All right, but just the fact that he said it.

[Don Hahn]

But I'm hearing about other people. And it's not even a reflection on Aaron Glenn, because I think a lot of Jet fans like him. They liked him when he was a player and want to give him a chance. But can you blame a Jet fan for just saying, same old, same old?

[Alan Rosenberg]

Well, you're mad because it's a way he's telling you to wait. And no fan. I've learned this from dealing with Knicks fans. They tell you, I've waited long enough. I don't want to wait anymore.

[Don Hahn]

Right. Because he takes on the sins of the father.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Right. So he inherits all of this. Is it wrong to place it on Aaron Glenn's shoulders and Moogie shoulders? No, of course not. Just like it was wrong to put it on the shoulders of Saleh, you know, and Douglas. And it was wrong to put it on idzig. And McCagnon and Rex and Bowles and Gates. But that's what you inherit when you come here. And the same thing with Dable. He took on the sins of what happened with Shermer and what happened with McAdoo and how it ended with Tom Coughlin and that is what goes on over and over and over again. And I can understand the fan base going okay listen I know they're telling me to be patient and ship. What was the quote? You know big ships turn slow.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yeah. Turns.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. But you're telling that to a guy that has literally not seen his team in the postseason for 15 friggin years. All right. And they haven't seen A championship since 1968. 80% of your franchise either was not alive or too young to remember their last championship so. And it's unrealistic to think it was going to turn around quickly. And there's nothing wrong with what he said But I understand another 03 start to the season it's going to start to erode. Same thing with the Giants. I mean they played a heck of a game against the Dallas Cowboys but it was another loss and I think they're going to play a heck of a a game against Kansas City because the Chiefs almost never cover and the Chiefs are a broken team. But Alan, if we come on on Monday and the Giants play a great game and they lose 2724 it's still going to be another loss. Another 03 season, another year that all you're thinking about now is when Dart's going to play. You've got a Jet team that if they lose to Tampa you're 03 and you're watching a 36 year old backup quarterback possibly be your QB for the foreseeable future until Justin Fields who you don't even know if it's any good comes a concussion protocol. I mean these fans deserve better.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Of course they do. Especially a paying PSLS and taking 2 hours commute just to get to the stadium from various places in the Tri State area. So many decisions. That's what I'm saying. Like I don't think what you just said and this is. I'm not, I'm not patronizing at all. I mean this the New York football fan considering everything they go through and have been through. Like who deserves it more than the people that have put up with what they put up with here with not only the fact that there's a shared stadium, it's in an awful location. It doesn't have a dome people, jets alone with the Majority of their fan base from Long island, how far they have to travel to go to these games. God bless all of you, I mean, all of you, for going to these games and setting up your tailgates and getting excited about. About again, moral victory. Monday, it's the most embarrassing day of the week for a New York football fan, but it's all you got. So I swear, they go through so much and now you're paying PSL to get. Just to get a ticket. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I just like, to me, it's a. It's poorly run and it's not going to change until the changes at the top. Don, Both franchises, you know what they're doing, they just keep waiting for a hero. They're waiting for a savior. They're waiting for that player or that coach or that general manager who just is brilliant. And it's, it is so good he overcomes the stench and the filth that is that it just is in the fabric of these two franchises. That's all you're looking for at this point. Who's going to be the savior that drags him out of the mud? Because they wait year after year to find that guy.

[Don Hahn]

And I'm telling you, there's other friends. Cleveland's right there, you know, and the Browns fans still go, but you know what? It's Cleveland and they've got the Guardians and they got the Cavaliers, okay? They got two other teams in the market that they've got to worry about, and it's once a week. And, you know, they're still going to go and they're still going to believe there's other markets that have lost for a long time. But it's so difficult to stay relevant in this city. I talk about it with the Devils now that I have the job. We, we talked about with the Islanders, the luncheon that we went to that they. How they want to, because winning is not guaranteed. So they've got to do things to kind of just stay relevant, to be able to stay in the public eye because there's. There's nine professional sports franchises in New York, and that's not counting the Liberty and not counting the soccer teams. But of the four majors, we've got nine teams and we've got the Yankees who are good every year. We got the Mets with a tremendous fan base. We, we got the Rangers starting their season, you know, rabid. Their fans are. The Knick fans are all over the place, like. So if you all of a sudden don't offer anything entertaining, it's not like New Yorkers don't have other things to pivot to, other things to be able to attract their interest.

[Alan Rosenberg]

That is the thing about New York. There's always something else to draw the interest away. There's. There. There's other teams. But Don, there's two of everything. How do you not get it right? I still. I still have a hard time getting over how long it's been since one of these teams won a championship. But when it comes to football, and it just shows you too, how strong football is. New York for a decade has been an abomination, and it doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter. You would think like, if this was. Well, I guess not, right? Well, it wasn't until the late 70s, didn't. Then the NFL. Was it Roselle who stepped in and put George Young in place?

[Don Hahn]

Pete Roselle stepped in and said, you should hire this guy.

[Alan Rosenberg]

It was Rose up. Well, like you think about it. Why? Because it was. It's the Giants. It was a New York franchise. It was like, we got to get that franchise, right?

[Don Hahn]

Got to get with the flagship franchise. He said, we've got. This is embarrassing.

[Alan Rosenberg]

So do you think. Do you think Roger Goodell gives it a second thought?

[Don Hahn]

I don't think it matters. I think the NFL has become so big, it doesn't matter.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Are they sitting around going, like, you know, we really got to get that New York. We got to get our New York franchises right? It's really. It's killing us. No, they don't care.

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't matter because it doesn't matter because they. They've got other teams to move the needle because we've. We finally hit the global village that we always talked about when we heard about. We were kids. It's a global village. It is. You know, I. Doesn't matter where I am. I can root for any team. I can. I can read their newspapers. I can be in their chat rooms. I. Their games on television. I got satellite radio. I can pick up the games on the radio. I don't have to be in Seattle to be a Seahawk fan. I don't have to be in Nebraska to be a Cornhuskers fan.

[Alan Rosenberg]

And especially in New York, because in Manhattan you have a bar for your team, right? So if you wanted to be around fans of your team, there's a Vikings bar. There's a. There's a Commander's bar. Like, they're all over the place. So you can find your people in New York where you don't have to worry about that. So it's, it's all the reason why once again, there's zero accountability at the very top of these two franchises.

[Don Hahn]

Well, you know what, they're going to start to feel it because it's not just the embarrassment of losing, but the jets had two home games and both of the games were half filled by the opposition. All right, Steelers, you can live with it. Cowboys. You know, the Giants are going to go through that when they play the Cowboys at MetLife Stadium. But the Bills, it was half Bills fans. What do you, how much red are you going to see on Sunday night, Allen, at MetLife Stadium? How many chief fans are going to get into that building? Because there's chief fans all over the place right now. It may not be half full, but you're going to hear cheers when Mahomes gets a first down. You're going to see red peppered throughout that whole stadium. And when the Cowboys come to town, it's going to be half filled with Cowboy fans. No matter how bad the Cowboys are, like, so then it starts to really, then you start to feel it.

[Alan Rosenberg]

But once again, people get fired. Right? Like it's already talk of table, you know, because we all know Aaron Glenn's not going anywhere. He loses. He goes oh and three. He's not going anywhere. Brian Dale goes zero and three. Then it really starts to get hot under his seat.

[Don Hahn]

Sure.

[Alan Rosenberg]

And then that's John Marin now and going through, making changes and all that stuff that he's had to go through a lot. He had to deal with that a lot. But in the end, it's everyone else's fault. It's always someone else's fault, right? Who's the guy making the decisions? Who's the guy hiring them? Who's the guy running the organization? That's to me, like there's the problem is you could keep firing people and hiring new people and blaming them for not doing a good job, but once you reach a decade, once you reach 15 years, right. Doesn't you. When do you start, you know, it's not pointing a finger and point the thumb. When do you start realizing like, you know what, maybe it's me, maybe I'm doing it, I'm doing a terrible job hiring the right people, right?

[Don Hahn]

Because if I, if I see every face in the room has changed but mine over the last decade, then I guess it's time to point the finger at me. And we're talking about ownership. The one thing but the jets and the Giants is it's the same ownership, but unfortunately you can, you could, we saw that with the Wilpons, with the Mets, right? You could put, you can, you could put billboards, you can fly planes over the stadium. These guys aren't parting ways. All right, Mets did, the Giants did sell off like 10% of their franchise. But John Mara is not going anywhere. Woody Johnson's not going anywhere. Okay. Mets got lucky and the Wilpons finally tapped out and they got Cohen and hoping things are going to be able to turn around. But ownership's the one thing you can apply as much pressure as you want, that's the one guy that cannot get fired. But you know, because we're, we're in our meeting today and we're just talking, it's, these are, it's tough to say winnable game for the Giants, but all you're hearing is the Giants should be competitive in this game.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

The Chiefs are broken. The Giants are home. There's a lot of reasons to believe that there could be an upset in the making. The Buccaneers are a really good football team, but they're not world beaters. There'll be some Jet fans in Tampa. They always travel there. Well, you know, right now maybe Tyrod Taylor is a better quarterback than Justin Field. But if we're talking on Monday about you know, two more blowout losses and non competitive and penalties and stupid decisions by the coach then and then Owen three trying, trying to build everybody up for, for Giants, Chargers, it's, it's, it's oh and three.

[Alan Rosenberg]

We all know what that means. Oh and three die hard stay checked in but the rest of people check out. You know what Owen 3 means? Baseball playoffs take precedent and the coming NBA and NHL seasons take press.

[Don Hahn]

Hey listen, I watch every game. I'm one of the diehards you're talking about. So.

[Alan Rosenberg]

So am I. No, I know we'll talk about it but you understand that our audience is going to have diehards and then of course you have just sports fans.

[Don Hahn]

But, but for the first time you.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Can'T just as a franchise be like, well at least our diehards will be there. But you don't want that.

[Don Hahn]

Alan, I can, I can live with and have for the 24 years that I've been on this radio station, for the 30 plus years I've been in sports radio. I can deal with mad. I can't deal with. I don't care. And that's what we're getting to the point of where Giants and Jet fans, after another look, they're just not going to be mad. They're not going to care anymore. Apathy is something I can't. That's not good Sports radio calling up and fire this guy and rip roaring mad about your team. Heck, we complain about the Yankee fans complaining all the time. I still love that passion. I love the fact that the fans hold their team accountable as much as they're the more winning team than anybody else in New York. It's still that level of accountability. But when you tap out and you don't care, what do you do with that? Alan, how do you make that work? How do you make a fan base? How do you deal with a fan base that doesn't care? Because I talked about the Steelers and the Bills fans and probably the chief fans going to the Giant game. You know what's going to happen when the Chargers come to town in 03? You know what's going to happen when there's some nondescript team going to MetLife. Now you're talking about a half empty stadium because it's not like those fans that sold their tickets have any desire to go if they can't sell them because they went from selling them for a profit to now just selling it because they don't want to go. Imagine a half empty building.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Well, think about it. They already did the planes, they already did the that stuff. Right.

[Don Hahn]

Can't burn tickets anymore because they're on your phone.

[Alan Rosenberg]

You don't have to. Right. You don't want to burn. What about bags over the head?

[Don Hahn]

I've already seen that.

[Alan Rosenberg]

You know what I mean? Like, but I'm saying this is all you got left. No, all you have left is visual embarrassment of your franchise. And yet it's been this way. It's like again this. The least amount of wins and the second least amount of wins in the last decade of football are owned by the two New York franchises. There's no explaining that other than these are poorly run teams that can't figure it out. And the jets because they just made a change at GM and coach at least have that benefit of the doubt of well, let's see if they can make it work. The problem with Dable and Joe Shane is that they've been here for a couple of years. It's supposed to start showing something. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

At some point.

[Alan Rosenberg]

And if you want to do it against the Kansas City Chiefs at home would be the time to do it.

[Don Hahn]

Well and you know we're talking about this. You want to shut us up, Go out there. Jets and Giants win, right. Go to 1 and 2 and give us a reason to believe. We got lots going on today. It's fraud alert Friday. We're going to do that at 4:30 as we usually do. We got our picks at 5:45. Peter's going to join us at some point because we got the whole Wrestle palooza going on. ESPN's involved in that and he's in Indianapolis so he's going to be joining us a little bit later on in the show. But he already lost again. He's yet to win a game with his picks, his three point plays, off.

[Alan Rosenberg]

The board, point and a half. It was so.

[Don Hahn]

Ah, it was a, it was, it was. There was that pick at the in the fourth quarter though. Maybe he'd take it to the house. No, it didn't happen but oh, poor Peter. And we've got ENN at 6 which is going to be an Anthony Pusick vehicle. We look forward to that. We'll take you right up to Mets and Nationals. It's Don Ana Rosenberg right here on ESPN New York. There are a lot of reasons why people buy at Ramsey Mazda. There's the selection, their customer service and also their savings. Get 1.9% financing on a new Mazda 2025 CX50 or lease for 249 for 33 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda dot com. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. VIN Number SN35 4688 MSRP 302000 09:45 0 Security Deposit APR $17.48 per 1000 financed ends 09:30 25 Valspar Ultra starts.

[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

One forgets mom's 60th.

[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

Listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Game time is brought to you by Tullimore. Do Irish Whiskey because when it's game time.

[Alan Rosenberg]

I like when he holds it.

[Don Hahn]

Mets start a series with the Nationals over at Citi Field Coverage right here on 880 ESPN. New York will begin after us at 6:30. Yankees continue their series down in Baltimore with the Orioles at 7:05 and the Liberty face the Mercury in a decisive Game three at nine o' clock tonight. So the defending champions facing elimination early Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew Honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. I really wish, Alan, that this was all just hyperbole, you know, that we're just trying to make this is. It's not bad.

[Alan Rosenberg]

It's real. Like, like that's the thing. This isn't us trying to like drum up emotion. It's something that we were just discussing kind of in passing in the pre show meeting. And when the numbers came, when John mentioned the numbers, it was like, damn. Like look, a decade's a lot like that. Once you hit 10 years, you know, that's, that's more than just a trend. That's what you are. And it's just so bad. And we get all fired up football year after year and different things happen that take the rug out of a season. Injuries, of course, are one. You know, the Rogers thing again, I wonder what things what it would have been like in 2023 if Aaron Rodgers doesn't blow out his Achilles. What does that season look like? What happens that year? You know, that's something I think is fair to say. But it happened because when you're a bad franchise, bad things happen to you. But. And then the Giants the same thing. The times not to just keep turning it over, but when you think about all the times they did turn it over, there was A good reason for it. What. Who was the coach after Tom Coughing because I'll still say Tom Coffin was run out too soon. But after Tom I could do. Who was the. I'm saying, who was the coach that you're like, ah, he needed more time, he should have got more time. Like the, like the jets are going to see Todd Bowles first time Todd Bowles is going to face his former team. And Todd Bowles, if you think about it like is the last coach that you know had some significant success, right? Like he got 10 wins. They didn't make the playoffs that year. They lost that last game. But if you think about all those years ago when this run started for the jets where they have the least amount of wins, even Todd Bowles at the time was not winning games. Three straight seasons, single digit wins and you know, four wins, five wins, whatever it was, nothing was going right. It was time to make a move.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Rosenberg]

But we talked about that coach like, oh, you didn't give enough time. Everybody you watched, you saw for two. You're like, nope, not that ain't it, that ain't it. They just make bad decisions.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I make bad decisions because even when they get the coach right, which obviously Todd Bowles good coach, either it was inexperienced for Bowles or they just had the wrong GM. McCagnon obviously was the wrong general manager.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Idzyk was the wrong general manager. Joe Douglas has been the wrong general manager. And when you have the wrong gm, what happens? You get bad picks. The coach doesn't look very good. If you remember, they gave Bates the offensive coordinator's job. He had no experience. He hasn't worked in the league since. You know, they like a lot of these guys have. Not really. They fail here and then it's. Where do they go? You know, so it's just bad decision, just bad football. You should be able to run into it. And the Giants did a couple of times make the playoffs. But again, 11 and five. They did what mirrors in 2016, embarrassed and Lambeau that the whole boat cruise and all that.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

And then a 9, 71 team that, let's be honest, break here, break there. They could have been 7, 9 and 1 and missed the playoffs. And Bowles excuse Dable probably is gone last year if they had a losing season in his first year. And you did win a game in the playoffs and I'm not throwing that back. But then one of the most colossal embarrassments ever against Philadelphia and it's been downhill ever since. Let's hear from you 1-800-9193776 and let's start it off with Dave in the car. You're on espn New York. What's up, man?

[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

Hey, how you guys doing? I don't want to talk about the last 10 years of the Giants because we all know that's been a disaster.

[Don Hahn]

You know, they don't have, you know.

[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

Al Davis, they don't have R.C. buford, they don't have Red Orbach. This is my thing. It's just this season, I don't know how Don, you're so, like, astonished that they're going to be 03 or they're going to be one. They're lucky to win six games. The who season for me is this. I'm realistic. Okay. The whole season is Jackson Dart our quarterback for the next 10 years. Then we have a chance of doing something, or is he not? The better Russell Wilson does, which I hope he doesn't do good the more Jackson Dart sits. So I don't even care if Russell Wilson wins four, five, six games and Jackson Dark doesn't play one ball game. I'm pissed off. I don't want to see Russell Wilson. He's not going to be there anymore for this year. He's done. They're not making the playoffs. You knew this three months ago.

[Alan Rosenberg]

We knew this three months ago.

[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

You knew the Giants were making the playoffs.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Right, right, Right. So. So what you're looking for as a potentially successful season and Don, I'm wondering you as a guy that is a Giants fan, which is this what you'd sign up for is they don't win games early. Dart gets in and they're, they look competitive. It looks right. And of course it's too late to be a playoff team, but because you end the season with some momentum and the kid looks like he's got some stuff. Yeah, there's your optimism. But Dave, here's what comes with that. This whole regime now has a reason to stay. Are you okay with that?

[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

Of course. This is what I'm looking at. I'm thinking that hopefully American can figure something out okay, and get rid of these guys. Even if Jackson Dart comes in and does a pretty good job and losing some games and they marriage should be able to know that this, this guy's a pretty damn good quarterback. But we can't, we can't have these guys. We can't have people tables. Got to get out of there. He's got to get out.

[Alan Rosenberg]

He's not going anywhere. If the kid plays and he plays.

[Don Hahn]

Well here here's Dave, you're right. The Giants only hope at this point feels like that Jackson Dart becomes the next Eli Manning, the next Phil Sims, the next great quarterback of this history. So you've got to treat him precious because he is your future. So week one they can't do anything offensively. Wilson's running for his life. Don't play Dart. I don't want Dart to get hurt. I don't want Dart to get damaged. But I'll tell you what, Allen, if the offense continues to look the way it looked against Dallas, then I'm not going to be that worried about throwing him in there. If they think he's ready because they could protect them eventually. Thomas is going to play maybe this Sunday, we don't know yet.

[Alan Rosenberg]

He's game time decision.

[Don Hahn]

He's going to be a game time decision but I figure at some point he's going to be ready. That's going to make the line better. Dave's right. If this team's going to do something offensively, I'd rather do with Dart than Wilson. They've got no future with Wilson, of course, but if Wilson's running for his life and Jones is spending the entire night Sunday in the backfield, you know, folding Wilson in half, I'd rather Wilson be beat up than, than my precious new toy in Jackson Dart. So I, if it's going to look like it did against Dallas, then by all means let's find a way to get him in sooner than later. But if it's going to look a lot like it did against Washington, then I don't want to. So let's see how it works because he's right. We have no future with Wilson. But I want to see the team function they functioned against Dallas. Once they start to consistently show function, then give Jackson Dart the opportunity. I'm not convinced, Alan, off of one game against the lousy Cowboy defense that they now are going to be a consistent, functional franchise.

[Alan Rosenberg]

No, of course not. Again, that's a bad secondary, right? Like that's what you know, Dallas, the secondary was, was banged up to begin with and they're not very good. It wasn't a lot of pressure on the quarterback either. So he had time and when you give him time, he'll, he can be. He still has enough left in the tank that if he has time and the receivers can, can win their one on ones, they can score a lot of points. Obviously the defense now has to do their end of it. But think about this though, Don. There's like little like you're almost looking for baby steps here. The Giants haven't scored a touchdown in a home opener in three years.

[Don Hahn]

Think about what you just said.

[Alan Rosenberg]

You're looking like, you're like, how can they beat the Chiefs? I'm like, can they get a touchdown in a home opener? Let's start there. Like, those are the little things. Get a win. It's, it's so many little things about them. They're not good in primetime. We know that since 2019. They're, they're 2 and 18. They don't win in primetime. They don't score touchdowns in their home opener.

[Don Hahn]

They don't be good teams. The list goes on and on.

[Alan Rosenberg]

There's a lot that has to be fixed here and, and you need to see evidence. And that's for Dale. But for, for, for Glenn. I don't think the pressure's on to win as much as it is. The pressure's on to be, to show that you can be competitive and play up to the character that you are at the podium. You know, the tough talk and the, the no nonsense coach. Your team needs to reflect leadership.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Then I start to believe in you as a coach.

[Don Hahn]

And Dave's right. I wasn't expecting this team to make the playoffs.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Nobody was.

[Don Hahn]

I. But I want to see more of what we saw last Sunday. I want to see less of what we saw in Week 1 for the Jets. I want to see more of what we saw in week one and less of what we saw last week. Like so, both, so both teams in different weeks have given you, I think, the best case scenario for the franchise. Now, now we'll see as we enter week three, what shows up more. You know, if the jets play like they did against Pittsburgh, I think they can beat the Bucks. If the Giants play exactly the same way they played against the Cowboys, I think they could beat the Chiefs. But let's see what real team shows up here. I've seen good and I've seen bad in both of these teams in two weeks. Two weeks is not a season make, but eventually you want to start winning some games. And that's one thing neither of these teams can seem to do even when they play well is close.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And you're going to have to close in Tampa and you're going to have to close against the Chiefs. Because as bad as the Chiefs are, if you leave the door open a crack, they'll knock it down.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Absolutely.

[Don Hahn]

You know, if you give Mahomes the ball with two minutes to go up three, he's going to score a touchdown.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Again, they should have won that game. Mahomes had that game one. Kelsey didn't catch the ball right. But that game, he had that game one. They were bad and he still had a way to win that game.

[Don Hahn]

And as bad as the Giants have been, Alan, how many times we said they should have won that game. Yeah, if not for this, if not for that. But they haven't learned how to do that yet. But let's both teams try to move in the right direction here. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is.

[Alan Rosenberg]

There.

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

Seriously, it's $15 a month.

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Rosenberg]

The Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

New York soccer fans get ready for a huge night at Citi field on Wednesday, September 24th. New York City FC plays host to Interm Milan. Kickoff is set for 7:30 for your chance to Be there. Enter at the New York espnnewyork.com or through the ESPN New York app. Just click the contest tab and submit your entry. Don't miss your shot to catch this marquee matchup in person. Tickets are available [e-mail] NYCFC Don Han and Rosenberg take you up till 6:30, then it's Mets baseball, Mets nationals at Citi Field. Allen brought it up before about the availability of Andrew Thomas. He's missed the first two weeks. He's going to be a game time decision on Sunday night. He did speak today and he was asked how he's feeling.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Feeling good three days in a row. Patterson first time doing that. Starting to build the volume. Getting my confidence back. So it's exciting for sure.

[Don Hahn]

All right, so the $64,000 question. Will you play this weekend?

[Alan Rosenberg]

I don't know. We're going to make a game time decision but I'm feeling a lot better.

[Don Hahn]

Than I did last week. Now is there more urgency to come back with the team 02?

[Alan Rosenberg]

I don't think so. If I'm speaking as a competitor, I want to be out there for week one. The best thing for the team, man, for myself is for me to be 100% out there. I think I can, you know, help the team out when I'm, when I'm at my best. So I'm trying to get back to that.

[Don Hahn]

And finally, could you rotate in on the offensive line?

[Alan Rosenberg]

I haven't personally done the rotating thing before. Years previous we've done that with different positions and it's not the easiest thing because you want camaraderie up front. But I think we have a good group of guys and veteran experience and I think we can make it work.

[Don Hahn]

I think what bothers me about this whole thing and I guess it shouldn't bother me because I don't think he was lying. But Joe Shane told us with a fair amount of confidence he was going to be ready for week one and now here we are. A possibility of not playing the first three weeks of the season. Now that's a whiff.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Just is not holding it against him.

[Don Hahn]

I mean that's, I'm not going to hold it against him either.

[Alan Rosenberg]

But it's a tackle and it's Liz Franca. I'm not, you know, I make sure he's ready and he's right.

[Don Hahn]

I get it. Then that's what you always will. We'll see. We'll see.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Bigger issues there, Donnie. Like, like that. That's one where you want him in there and all that stuff. I want him healthy and ready so that when Dart does go in, at least I've got my. My all pro veteran left tackle out there. That I at least feel good about that. But there's tonight. Is tonight Sunday night for. For the Giants? There's a lot. Look, there's a lot right on the Chiefs in this game. There's a lot of pressure on the Chiefs. Could you. Do you know the last time they were owing three.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the last time they missed the playoffs. How long ago was that? So I don't know. I'd be. It would be again a decade ago.

[Alan Rosenberg]

More pre. Andy Reid.

[Don Hahn]

So pre. Wow. So that's. So we're talking about like 20, 10, 11.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Think about that.

[Don Hahn]

I think the last time they missed the playoffs, I still think they won nine games. Like this is. This has been a consistently good franchise for a long time. The opposite of what we've seen here in New York.

[Alan Rosenberg]

But wouldn't it be great? I know this is stupid, but it's. It really is. The most maddening thing about sports is you can change players, you can change front offices, you can make all the different. All the things that need to be done to make your franchise better can be done. Except if you have poor leadership at the top, there's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do. And it's not. They could be the nicest guys. They could mean well. We all know, like. We all know Marinette love the Giants. They love the Giants. Means everything. It's in marriage, blood, it's in his family. It's everything. Right. We know that he cares, but that doesn't mean you're good at what you're doing.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah, that. I think there's a difference. I don't think it's complacency or lack of caring. All right, listen. Woody Johnson's been. He's been the owner of this team for 25 years. And it's a toy for him, but it's a toy. He wants to be successful. Believe me, I work there. He wants to win. He doesn't know how to do it, but he wants to win.

[Alan Rosenberg]

That's the problem.

[Don Hahn]

Suck a ton of money into that facility. He wants the best for this team. Just doesn't know how to do it. John Mara's problem is, is that I think he is so passionate. He kind of runs it like a fan. And I don't think he necessarily, like all these owners has. You're not. Just because you own a team doesn't Mean, you're an expert at that sport that you own. But he's been around the game a lot. He knows the game. He's not an arrogant person, he's not a mean spirited person. He's not an ignorant person. But I think we overrate how much football he knows because he's been around it for so long. But his biggest crime is how passionate he is. And sometimes I think he. He makes decisions based on that and that's never a good idea.

[Alan Rosenberg]

You don't think the crime is recognizing your limitations and hiring someone that you could just simply put in charge and say, like, like you get the. Like, it's New York. You should have the best. I'm sorry? You should have the best. The one time they got it right was when Leon Hess brought in Bill Parcells. Right? Because that's when you knew you brought in somebody with a resume and you got the. Well, Leon hastily didn't get involved too much, never wanted to. But the idea of bringing in a guy like Parcells and saying, run it. I'm out of here. I am. Just tell me what you need.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Like, how hard is it as an owner to simply just say, tell me what checks to write and I'll write them? Otherwise, whatever you say. And the funny thing is that the one experience I have in that is when we. When Jim Dolan gave, you know, Phil Jackson the reins and said, I'm staying out of the way, just tell me what you want, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, and then Phil Jackson ran it into the ground. So that did not work.

[Don Hahn]

No, it didn't work.

[Alan Rosenberg]

But how hard is it, though, if you are an owner, I want to win. I think fans will credit you if your franchise wins. If you do what? Stay out of the way. Just write checks and give the expert all the room he needs. They don't do that either one of these football teams.

[Don Hahn]

If you remember the argument that I got into with Carl Banks when he was in studio back in the infancy of the show. And he convinced me, John Mara is not a meddler. He doesn't have fat hands. Okay. You saw how that went on the HBO the Hard Knocks.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

He ended up letting Shane do what he wanted to do, letting Barkley go. All right. But the problem I have with John is when he went to Shane and Dable, that's like literally the first time he went outside the organization to hire somebody. Everybody that he's ever hired has had ties to the organization. Right. In some way, shape or even Gettleman was a Former scout of the Giants. So it's always the people that he knows. He finally went outside the organization.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Judge was recommended by. Yeah, right.

[Don Hahn]

Now was he hearing the fans and hey, now we gotta go outside the organization. And again, keeping Dable and Shane wasn't based on anything other than I don't want to have to go through the revolving door again. That's not the way to do things. So sometimes I think he listens to the fans, sometimes he follows it with his heart. But he's not a meddler. He doesn't pretend to know more than he knows. But I think the Giants pump through his blood. I don't know if he trusts a lot of people outside the organization to go out there and hire. The last time they hired anybody that had any kind of pelts in the NFL was when they hired Tom Coughlin. But Tom Coughlin, before he went to Jacksonville and Boston College, he was a Giants wide receiver coach. He had ties to the organization. John Mara is not going to go out there. And if Andy Reid got upset with Kansas City for. He's not hiring Andy Reid. You know, that's not John's way, but sometimes that's the way, right?

[Alan Rosenberg]

Yeah. Well, it's, it's, look at, it's, look at Pete Carroll. Pete Carroll, 73 years old, and yet he was coming back to be a coach in the NFL. The jets were looking for a coach and he, he coached the jets way back when. It was his first experience. And they were like, we're all set now again, Glenn. We'll see what he becomes. But sometimes you bring in somebody that has one that knows what they're doing and you just give them the job and get out of the way and, you know, look, already Vegas has a lot more credibility about them, don't they? A lot more structure, a lot more like you kind of believe a little more in them. They got a ways to go, but like, you just feel better about them just simply because of who he is. Same thing with Mike Vrabel in, in, in New England. It's like, okay, I, I know he knows what he's doing. And that's, that's the problem here. You don't have enough of that.

[Don Hahn]

Pete Carroll is the, is the absolute epitome of age, is just a number because he's not 73 years old. He, he's pretty amazing. What he's been able to accomplish in his, in his career at the age in which he's been able to accomplish it. 1,800-9193776 is the number to call Griffin in Connecticut. What do you got, buddy?

[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

Hey guys, I have a football and a baseball point, but I'll get to the football point first. I understand that the Chiefs are broken, but I just, I don't know how the Giants are going to be able to stay close with the Chiefs. And I just have a couple feeling why I think the Chiefs are going to be able to win big. I don't know if Andrew Thomas can't play, how you're going to protect Chris Jones. Stopping Chris Jones and then I just have a feeling the Chiefs are looking next week. They got the Ravens next week. If they lose this week, they're 0 and 3 and then they're gonna play the Ravens. That's gonna be a hard game. They could lose that one. Next thing you know, the Chiefs are owing four funeral. They're done, season's over. I just don't think they're gonna let that happen. That's why I think the Chiefs are gonna come out there fighting hard and really try to pull out this win.

[Don Hahn]

I'm with you. Pacheco coming back to his old stomping grounds. Right. Former Rutgers and you know you've got so many things that Griffin just said too. But can they do it? I'm sure the want to is going to be there, the motivation is going to be there. But can they do it?

[Alan Rosenberg]

They could be had a close game though. You have to give the nod because it's Mahomes and you know he could try to find a way to pull out a win. But they, there's a lot of issues going on with them. They got to get right. And if you're the Giants, you want to pin your ears back and send those guys after Mahomes and really try to disrupt their offense and win a low scoring game. That's what you're trying to do here.

[Don Hahn]

Quick, what's your baseball point?

[Caller (e.g., Dave or Griffin)]

My baseball point is we all thought the Guardian stood no chance winning their division. If they win this division, will this be one of the biggest comp, one of the greatest comebacks in MLB history because they were like 15 something games out and now they're three and a half still with three games left to play with the Tigers.

[Alan Rosenberg]

They won seven. Well, they've won seven. They've been on, as Dom would say, a toot.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Rosenberg]

And they like how all of a sudden I thought that division was a fait accompli but it's, it's still, it's still kind of up for grabs because.

[Don Hahn]

They play three more times it's three in the loss column. Listen, there's been plenty of teams. Remember the Remember the mets blew a seven game lead with 17 left to play in 07 against the Phillies. Crazier things have happened. And Griffin, thank you for the but we'll get into the baseball a little bit later on.

[Alan Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

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