Hour 1: The 40-20 Rule

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg

Hour 1: The 40-20 Rule

Date: February 11, 2026
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Theme: New York Sports, Knicks Postgame, The 40-20 NBA Championship Rule, Reminiscence, and Rock Song Debates

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Episode Overview

This hour blends classic New York sports banter and sharp Knicks analysis with pop culture reflections, camaraderie, and poignant reminders about health. The show pays tribute to James Van Der Beek following his passing, features a deep dive into the NBA's 40-20 rule for championship contenders, and builds anticipation for a heated debate about the greatest rock songs of all time.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Studio Chatter, Michael Kay Stories & Charlie Kay's Broadcasting Aspirations

[00:46 – 03:41]

• The hosts open with lighthearted teasing about their morning routines, office snacks, and on-air camaraderie, poking fun at each other for affectionate moments ("You look good... This has never happened in radio." – Peter, [01:18]).
• Discussion around Michael Kay's son, Charlie, showing interest in radio:
  • Charlie wanted to join Kay on air; considered responsible for declining to read gambling/alcohol ads ([02:31]).
  • The crew muses about "Charlie K" being a classic athlete name and envisioning his sports logo ([03:20]).

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2. REMEMBERING JAMES VAN DER BEEK:

[03:41 – 10:01]

• Immediate reaction to James Van Der Beek's passing (noted for “Varsity Blues” and “Dawson’s Creek”):
  • Hosts recall his underrated contributions to sports films (“Super underrated sports actor.” – Peter, [03:58]).
  • Sober discussion about the importance of preventative health screens—with genuine, unscripted advice:
    • “Just go… it's time to put away the stigma and the giggles... just get it done.” – Alan, [04:25]
    • Health care in America is critiqued: “This country and the way we handle health is disgusting. And it’s a for profit business when it shouldn't be...” – Peter, [04:31]
    • The hosts normalize colonoscopies and share stories about their procedures—turning a somber topic into inclusive, relatable humor:
      • “It’s the best nap [you’ll get]!” – Alan, [05:13]
      • “I always looked at [it] like a spa day... you get the day off work...” – Don, [06:12]
      • “You go, you get a feather, they’re going to tell you, you know, count backwards from 100... you’ll get to, like, 98. You're out.” – Don, [06:56]
    • The conversation closes with a call to get screened earlier, especially if there's family risk.

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3. NBA’s 40-20 RULE & KNICKS IMPLICATIONS:

[10:11 – 27:45]

Setting Up the Rock Songs Debate Tease

• The hosts preview their upcoming Top 5 greatest rock songs segment, emphasizing the need for universally recognized, influential tracks ([10:38]).

Knicks-Pacers Loss: Trends, Stats, and the 40-20 Rule

[12:34 – 19:45]

• Alan and Don dissect the Knicks’ recent overtime loss to Indiana and shift focus to a key NBA stat for championship contenders:
  • The 40-20 Rule (Phil Jackson Era Onward):
    • “You have to have won 40 games before losing 20. All but four of the NBA champions since then have done it.” – Alan, [14:27]
    • The hosts try to recall the exceptions, highlighting Miami (2006), Detroit (2004), Milwaukee in the COVID-shortened season, and possibly Houston ([15:59]).
    • Don emphasizes: “It’s a stat you can’t ignore… only three teams have done it [in an 82-game season].” [26:18]
  • Current season implications: Only a small handful of teams (OKC, Detroit, San Antonio) are on pace. The Knicks are not among them ([18:17]).
  • Vegas still favors the Knicks out of the East, but the numbers say otherwise ([19:57]).
  • Lively debate on whether this year will be an “outlier” for the rule due to league parity ([22:37]).
  • Podcast listeners get a historical run-through of Knicks seasons where this statistical trend rang true, adding context to championship hopes ([21:04]).

Listener Reflection:

• “Good teams...show you over the period of their first 60 games who they are.” – Peter, [26:57]

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4. Cultural Reflection: Revisiting Bowie & Prince

[31:02 – 33:26]

• A segue from trends in sports to trends in music consumption:
  • Reflection on how social media allows audiences to discover/catch up on artists they missed in their prime.
  • “Of all the things we hate the Internet and social media for...the one redeeming thing is you can go back and connect to things you missed in real time.” – Alan, [33:26]
  • Hosts confess to only appreciating iconic musicians like David Bowie and Prince in retrospect: “People are honest, which they rarely are, there’s a lot of holes musically that everybody goes through...” – Don, [33:02]

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5. Debating Lists, Theatrics, and the Art of the Rock Song Argument

[35:05 – 38:40]

• Tension and competitiveness surface as the guys finalize their rock song lists. Alan admits to over-preparing, Peter worries about Don’s judging (“Don—arbiter of all things rock and roll—will be like, 'you’re garbage for that selection.'” – Peter, [35:19]).
• Discussion on how to present song selections: Play first notes for recognition, or build suspense with narrative ([37:22]).
• The segment teases the depth of thought and fun banter for the following hour’s music debate.

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6. Switching Back: Knicks, NBA Trends, and Fan Q&A

[44:59 – 48:53]

• Caller “Flavio” asks if the Knicks’ loss to the Pacers is cause for concern, noting defensive lapses and lack of urgency ([44:59]).
  • Alan notes: “Going into the game, defense was better...Indiana...this is Knicks-Pacers...they locked in. Knicks gave up early open threes...couldn’t put out the fire.” ([45:49])
  • Don is frustrated by the lack of finish in overtime: “Just be the better team for five minutes—and they couldn’t.” ([48:04])
• Another caller, Spike, offers rock song picks and Knicks playoff scenarios, sparking predictions and more Knicks discussion.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “This country and the way we handle health is disgusting. And it’s a for profit business when it shouldn’t be.” – Peter Rosenberg, [04:31]
• “You’re going to have the best sleep of your life.” – Don La Greca, [06:02]
• “All but four NBA champions since [the merger] have won 40 before losing 20...That’s huge.” – Don La Greca, [14:40]
• “Good teams show you...who they are.” – Peter Rosenberg, [26:57]
• “Of all the things we hate the Internet for...the one redeeming thing is you can go back and connect to things you missed in real time.” – Alan Hahn, [33:26]
• “Don—arbiter of all things rock and roll—will be like, 'you’re garbage for that selection.'” – Peter Rosenberg, [35:19]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:46 – 03:41]: Michael Kay, Charlie K aspirations, on-air ribbing
• [03:41 – 10:01]: James Van Der Beek tribute, health care, colonoscopy encouragement
• [10:11 – 12:34]: Rock song segment preview and setup
• [12:34 – 27:45]: Knicks-Pacers postmortem, the 40-20 rule in NBA history, current contenders
• [31:02 – 33:26]: Cultural reflection on music discovery, Bowie and Prince
• [35:05 – 38:40]: Rock list banter, presentation debate
• [44:59 – 48:53]: Knicks defense Q&A, overtime woes, playoff speculation

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Overall Tone & Style

The episode is charged with trademark New York edge: quick banter, candid opinions, and irreverent humor balanced with genuine moments (in health, remembrance, and sports passion). The camaraderie and competitiveness among the hosts, especially around sports, list-making, and cultural knowledge, create a lively, engaging listen.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

• Expect a blend of Knicks concerns, NBA analytics, and classic pop culture.
• Don’t miss the moving, real-talk segment on health in memory of James Van Der Beek.
• Prepare for the next episode’s Top 5 Rock Songs segment—set up with plenty of passion and friendly rivalry.

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Skip directly to:

• [03:41] Tribute & health talk on Van Der Beek
• [12:34] Knicks’ 40-20 rule discussion
• [31:02] Music and pop culture reflection
• [44:59] Callers & further Knicks insights

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Transcript

[Don La Greca]

5:00Am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change, and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail]. don, give me a piece of wood. I'll eat it.

[Alan Hahn]

Han, Peter, the most used sweat is at a buffet. And Rosenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll be honest, the one thing I miss about having an office is the taste of Steve Hart's nuts.

[Don La Greca]

This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Alan Hahn]

This is Don, Han, and Rosenberg.

[Don La Greca]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Alan Hahn]

ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube.

[Don La Greca]

I think it's been well over a year. The last time that I saw Michael K. Back to back days. Back to back days. We saw Michael. He's in studio all week.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's pretty awesome.

[Don La Greca]

Don on a Rosenberg with you. 301 of the big city.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I heard you guys together earlier and it was. It was something I want. I thought you guys should. Should have covered the glass or steam.

[Don La Greca]

No, no, no, you didn't have to cover the glass. It was all steamed up, all fogged.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it was definitely fogged up.

[Don La Greca]

A lot of humidity.

[Alan Hahn]

Paradise by the dashboard.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like one moment, there was. There was a moment of like.

[Don La Greca]

I don't know if you heard it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alan, he was like, I miss you. He's like, I miss you too. You look good.

[Don La Greca]

You look good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was like, oh, this is it. Here we go. This has never happened. Yeah. This has never happened in radio.

[Producer Anthony Pusick]

Never.

[Peter Rosenberg]

History of sports talk. See that? You guys want to go down the record books, do something that's never happened before? Like many yo yos have yelled, fought, screamed, cursed, broken things. We've seen it all. Never have. They just started making out.

[Alan Hahn]

Make out maybe right on the table.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. I'm not going to confirm or deny, but maybe the reason it didn't go that way is because his son Charlie was in the room.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. It would have been very inappropriate.

[Don La Greca]

It would have his little cb.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It would have.

[Alan Hahn]

Excuse me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's Charlie's new nickname is C.B.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Don La Greca]

God, does he want to be in this business. He kept asking, can I join? And I thought he was like riffing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Off the Natalie drop.

[Don La Greca]

No, he. Because he wanted in on the show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, he literally was saying. And did you bring him on?

[Don La Greca]

Michael didn't because Lupica was coming up. Oh, and he didn't think he had.

[Alan Hahn]

To turn the mic on. If he wanted to go, let him go.

[Don La Greca]

Charlie handle Lupica. I don't think he could either. Charlie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Charlie apparently did part of the Tullamore do.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, I like that.

[Don La Greca]

I'd like to hear the back end part. Like, he was the one. Like Michael what was gonna have him do the entire. Okay. And Charlie was the brains of the operation and said he didn't think was appropriate if he read the alcohol. Oh, that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that really. Charlie was the one who said that.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Responsible as well.

[Don La Greca]

And he also. And Charlie also stayed out of doing the. The gambling app. If I forget which one is Michael's, I guess your fan duel.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Like, so we couldn't get him Ramsey Mazda. Couldn't get him one of those. Where is he? Get him in here. He'll do a Ramsey Mazda.

[Don La Greca]

I think he's. He's a hell of a ball player.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don La Greca]

So he's either Michael's either going to be calling his games or he's going to replace.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All you got to say. I got to tell you, too, he's got a hell of an athlete name, too.

[Don La Greca]

Charlie K. You could be a pitcher.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You could be an outfielder. You'd be a golfer. Charlie K has a few, I think, usable. You know what I mean? I can picture that.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's perfect for a pitcher.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is. Well, of course.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what I mean.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Make your logo easy. Done. Maybe your logo is the backwards K. We'll see.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A lot of options. Also, we. How do you not start with the sad news that James Vanderbie just brought us?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, this was tough because Peter and I. I think you too, Alan. But like, Peter and I for years always talked about Varsity Blues as one of our favorite. Not just football movies, but sports movies, period.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A super underrated sports actor.

[Alan Hahn]

And I completely agree. There's so many scenes that are relatable and memorable. And memorable.

[Don La Greca]

But he was. He just seemed like a really good guy. We knew he was sick. He had cancer, I guess he announced it back in 2024, and he succumbed to it today at the age of 40.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was it 48? 48.

[Don La Greca]

That's.

[Producer Anthony Pusick]

That's.

[Don La Greca]

Dude, just get checked. I know. There's always these conversations.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

When do you go for a colonoscopy? Just go, man.

[Alan Hahn]

It's time to put away, like, the stigma and the giggles and all. Like, just get it done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And like, there's a lot of. We were just talking about this, you know, Listen, I think all of us are on different parts of the political spectrum, but all of us can agree on one thing. This country and the way we handle health is disgusting. And it's a for profit business when it shouldn't be. And so it can be really hard for people to get this stuff done. So you got to look into your family history. And if you have any sort of connection to, like, colorectal stuff, like, it could be, you know, your grandfather, a sibling, whatever it is, use that as a reason to go get checked, because you gotta. You gotta have a reason to get your insurance to cover it. But absolutely, you gotta get, you know, you gotta get checked.

[Alan Hahn]

And, hey, it's the best sleep you're gonna get.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, as we always say, Michael, we used to always joke about this. I look forward to it.

[Alan Hahn]

It's the best nap.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You get a great nap.

[Alan Hahn]

You wake up and you're refreshed, you feel good.

[Don La Greca]

It honestly, I always looked at, like a spa day. Now the day before, when you got to take the stuff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's gotten better, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, but it's a guy thing. And, like, we're all in it together. Like, you gotta do it. Everybody's gotta do it. You gotta go through that day before. You gotta go through the whole idea of it. But, like, that, that this has to become like, let's normalize. Like, let's normalize a colonoscopy. Normalize it as something that. Yeah, of course. Like, you're going to. Oh, you're going. Oh, yeah. And we're all brothers. We all understand.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Everyone's got to do it.

[Alan Hahn]

We all go through it. It's a little normalized. Don't make it a stigma. Don't make it this weird thing.

[Don La Greca]

But I'm telling you, there is really literally nothing to fear. I know when you hear it described, you're like, I don't want that. You don't know that.

[Alan Hahn]

Alan just told you.

[Don La Greca]

You're gonna have the best sleep of your life.

[Alan Hahn]

Glorious.

[Don La Greca]

And the day before, Peter is so right.

[Alan Hahn]

And the first meal.

[Don La Greca]

See, you gotta look at it as a spa day.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don La Greca]

It's the way I look at it. All right, you get first. They all from work. Okay. The prep. So much better than it used to be. When I first had my colonoscopy, like 15 years ago, you had to choke down this stuff. You wanted to gag. It was awful. Now I just stir it up into some Gatorade. You drink it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's not bad.

[Don La Greca]

All right. You're stuck in the bathroom for a couple hours. So what? It doesn't stop you from getting White Castle every other month, which is why.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You need to go to get the colonoscopy in the first place.

[Don La Greca]

And then when you go through that. All right, and what you got to do is you got to time the colonoscopy very early in the morning. So you go through the prep, you go to bed. All right? And you wake up, you're going to feel great because you just cleaned yourself out.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, nice. You feel light.

[Don La Greca]

You go, you get a feather. They're going to tell you, you know, count backwards from 100, you'll get to, like, 98. You're out, and then you're out. And then you wake up, it's over. You don't feel a thing. Hopefully the doctor says you're good. The nurse is gonna say, all right, rip one, and then you can go. Well, they also, like, right, because you gotta clear it out. So they told me, you know, pass a little gas just to make sure that I did not clear the air out. They're not thorough enough.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I was just told, like, you're good until you're ready to get up. You can stay here as long as you want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, Ryz, hold it.

[Alan Hahn]

And then once you're ready to get up, it's like, well, who's picking you up? Because you, obviously.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I want to go back to Don. I never heard them.

[Don La Greca]

The nurse says to me, come out and rip one. Yeah, because I guess there's some, you know, they want to check or whatever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Make sure it's still working.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. I don't know what the issue is. Okay, like, all right, and then I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Think it's a prank.

[Alan Hahn]

All right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it's called a.

[Alan Hahn]

We left something in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We want to see how it goes.

[Don La Greca]

All I know is if I can find women that don't mind that boy, my life would have been completely different. All right, so. And then Alan's right.

[Alan Hahn]

Then you.

[Don La Greca]

Then you go home, because if you get it early in the morning, you get home, like, 12, 1 o', clock, and then you have the most spectacular meal of your life.

[Alan Hahn]

The greatest meal.

[Don La Greca]

Is it like the first time in 48 hours you've had something like that wasn't jello?

[Alan Hahn]

Yep. And you feel so light, you could eat for days.

[Don La Greca]

I'm telling you.

[Alan Hahn]

So good.

[Don La Greca]

Well, I don't want anything. You don't even know what happened.

[Alan Hahn]

No idea.

[Don La Greca]

You have no idea. And then you get checked. So listen, it's rest in peace.

[Alan Hahn]

Man. And, but, but the thing to use this sad news is, is to obviously open some eyes and just remind some people that maybe still haven't yet. We're 45 right now. But if you're. Like you said, Peter, you're absolutely right. If you're in your late 30s and there's a family history, you better start planning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. You just gotta find a way to go see.

[Alan Hahn]

Go see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know why they. Well, I do know why. Again, it's about money and insurance companies. The number. If they're worried of like we can't quite figure out if it's 40 or 45. If we didn't live in such a sick society, well then they would go, hey, let's be safe. Let's make the number 35. Let's make sure we get ahead of it. But no, that doesn't work because insurance companies have to pay and it's. And the hospitals have to charge them $15,000. So they make it hard for us. But as soon as you can possibly get in there.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. Try to get it done for sure.

[Alan Hahn]

No pun intended.

[Don La Greca]

But I will tell you, well done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he was great, man. James Vanderbie was a great actor. And if you didn't live through the moment because you know the guys on the other side of the glass here, they did not live through the moment. And I know you guys were definitely too old for that moment. It was right at my teenage years, right. Dawson's Creek was just an absolute hammer. I mean like in terms of. There was that moment, the party of five, Dawson's Creek, Fox up like that little mid range soap, teenage soap opera Run was huge. And that show, you know, it made Katie Holmes, it made Josh Jackson and it made James Van Der Beek who of course played, played Dawson. But he, yeah, he was a really cool actor, man. Really sad to see that. Yeah.

[Producer Anthony Pusick]

4:30.

[Don La Greca]

We got the list. In case you're kidding.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's all we should do. That's what Anthony wants.

[Alan Hahn]

Halftime, Nick game. I'm doing this.

[Don La Greca]

It's all I was.

[Alan Hahn]

I was locked in. Almost forgot. The coach interview.

[Don La Greca]

It is. Well, you don't want to do that.

[Alan Hahn]

No, you don't.

[Don La Greca]

It's all I've been hearing all morning on social media. People guessing, people looking forward to it. And in case you missed this, I'm. We're all going to go there. We're all going to like Thelma Louise and whoever they got edited out. All, all holding hands, going off the cliff because we're all going to fail Miserably in the eyes of our audience. Because everybody's got their own top five greatest rock songs of all time.

[Alan Hahn]

Maybe 430, maybe out of each of our five, there'll be some sames that will know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I wonder if there will be samesies.

[Don La Greca]

There has to. There might be. But here's the rules. The rules are, in order for it to be in the top five, it's got to be a song that everybody knows doesn't have to like it because obviously music is very subjective. And I will tell you, of the five, I love all five songs, but I wouldn't have them in my personal top five. I love all five of them, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm like, oh, and sorry, are you ranking also?

[Don La Greca]

We decided not to. We're just gonna give the five. As it's hard enough to do this right right now, we're gonna have to come up with a number one. Then everybody knows the song. It's influential. And I also believe it's gotta be good. And what I mean by good is that it's gotta be very well done, well written. Cause there are some songs that have been hits that are. That you're looking at. It's not really that great.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

So I think all those things have to kind of fill in there. And we're gonna give reasons why I want you guys when. Because we're all gonna do it. We're all gonna give our five reasons why not. Because I love it. No or no. Give me some background on why you believe it belongs in the top five greatest rock songs of all time. So that'll be coming up at 4:30. We're going to have a weekly now through the rest of the basketball season with Monica McNutt. She'll join us at 4 o' clock on Wednesdays. Football came to an end, in case you didn't notice that. You know, Booger McFarland always came in Wednesday at 4:00'. Clock. But now that will be Monica for the rest of the basketball season. And that's our jumping off point today. I did not see a Nick loss coming. I kind of joked when I did the Tullamore do read. The Pacers are going to treat this like their, you know, super bowl. And they clearly did and the Knicks didn't. Now the Knicks scored and I'm not saying the Knicks mailed it in, but listen, they're not a great defensive team, but they played no defense at all. And they got a game today in Philadelphia and that's a much bigger game. And we're close to The All Star break. Let's face it, since Tibbs left, you know, Tibbs didn't let these things happen. Tibbs played every game like it was game seven. And that irritated some people. But this is a new era of Knicks basketball where these are going to be some games that you go through and you were there. But anything other than the obvious of them just, you know, it was the look past game whatever, or, you know, just not completely engaged All Star game, yada, yada yada. But is there anything basketball wise we should be concerned about with this overtime loss to the Pacers?

[Alan Hahn]

How big are you into trends? Do you follow trends?

[Don La Greca]

Well, trends are trends for a reason. Right. It means that it's kind of a language of telling you what's coming.

[Alan Hahn]

You told me about a trend in the NHL when it comes to Stanley cup, right.

[Don La Greca]

Teams that are in the playoffs at American Thanksgiving, like 80% of the time end up making the playoffs.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, I have one for you that's pretty much similar to that.

[Don La Greca]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

It's the rule of 4020.

[Don La Greca]

Are you aware of this? Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Phil Jackson now last night for the Knicks.

[Don La Greca]

Saboteur.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Saboteur.

[Alan Hahn]

He was the saboteur. Took a lot of money. But this is one that is interesting. It made the rounds last night and I think it's will, it's worth bringing up here. So last, last night's loss gave The Knicks a 3420 record. 20 losses. And so the determination that Phil Jackson had post ABA merger three point line instituted. So we'll call that the modern era. Okay, so was that 87,900? 87,090. Okay. Since that year you have to have won 40 games before losing 20.

[Don La Greca]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

All the, all but four of the NBA champions since then. Four.

[Don La Greca]

That's a lot. All but four.

[Alan Hahn]

All but four have won 40 before losing 20 in.

[Don La Greca]

Since 79. 80.

[Alan Hahn]

Since 80. That's.

[Don La Greca]

That's huge.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a significant number.

[Don La Greca]

So you got to win 40 before your 60th game is what you're saying? Basically.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I guess. But before you get to the 20.

[Don La Greca]

Can you guess the four? Like the first one that pops to mind to me is Toronto.

[Alan Hahn]

No, but they probably did the Raptors do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They did not do it.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no. The Raptors are not on the list of the four teams that.

[Don La Greca]

Oh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I don't think you'll be able to guess. Like, is there a.

[Don La Greca]

Is there an. Are they spread out through all the years or.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll say this, three of the four were in this century or this One fairly recently in this decade.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Give me a Lakers team.

[Alan Hahn]

No, give me a Spurs team.

[Don La Greca]

Was there a team that won that didn't have like a major, major record? Usually it's a.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Give me Dallas.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Don La Greca]

Why do I feel like there was a team that was a high seed, but they didn't have like many like that deep into the 50s and wins.

[Alan Hahn]

Think of a team in the 10 in this century that was a bit of a surprise champion over a dynastic team.

[Don La Greca]

They beat a dynasty team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A surprise champion.

[Alan Hahn]

It's a bit of a, bit of a surprise.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, with the first heat team.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes, the 06. Okay, that's one of them. Well done, well done. Another one though is. Would be a little more obvious because it. Although it has a hall of famer on it, it's not a star studded. It wasn't at the time like a superstar.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, what was it one of the. Was it the Pistons team?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, four Pistons. That's two. Now the one that's most recent a couple of years ago it happened in a 72 win season. So I kind of feel like technically they don't count.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Warriors.

[Alan Hahn]

No, 72 win season. 72. I'm sorry, I said win 72 game season. Yeah, that's my mistake. 72 game season. So Covid, post Covid year, the year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Post Covid was 72.

[Alan Hahn]

Was 72 games because the Lakers. So I don't think they count, but they're being counted. I don't like it. Was it the. Jake got it, the Bucks, right? Yes, they were, they were.

[Don La Greca]

But they would have done it.

[Alan Hahn]

They were 46 and 26 that year. But again, if you had a 10 more games, could they have gotten four more wins? You know like so anyways, so.

[Don La Greca]

So if we. And I and I think you're fair to discount them, then it only happened.

[Alan Hahn]

Three times in an 82 game season. Three times, yeah. Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

But what happened in the. What was the 98, 99 season?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that was a short season too. So that was like. I can't remember how many that might have been 40 something. 48 games. So that you can't even count. So that.

[Don La Greca]

So that one already there's not a discount.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that's already. I don't count that. Okay, now so that.

[Don La Greca]

So that was the team Spurs.

[Alan Hahn]

The last team I didn't make note of it was in the late 90s. Didn't even bother because to me it's just more recent is what stood out to me is that three of the four were more recent.

[Don La Greca]

So late 90s.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't write it down so you could guess one and I don't know. I didn't write it down. Oh, you didn't write down. I didn't look it up. I didn't bother. I looked up the other ones. You have it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who is it?

[Alan Hahn]

Who is.

[Don La Greca]

You took one to 95 rockets.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, it could be. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think that was the fourth team. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

That is back to back champs. So it doesn't matter. So anyway.

[Don La Greca]

No, but that's, that's not a Trend.

[Alan Hahn]

So that's 40, 20. You have to get to 40 before you get to 20. You're talking about. That's. Is that about 90% like you're a lot. You know that that's a big deal. And so The Knicks have 20 losses.

[Don La Greca]

Now, only 34 wins. So they weren't even close.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, now here's what's interesting is that this year, like it's, it's already starting to slip for a lot of teams. We know OKC's already got 41. So they're already. They're locked. Right.

[Don La Greca]

And then the favorites to win. So.

[Alan Hahn]

And then the defending champ, right. Well, the spurs, they already did it. The spurs are 37 and 16.

[Don La Greca]

So they could do.

[Alan Hahn]

They could do it.

[Don La Greca]

Well, they should do it.

[Alan Hahn]

Now there's two teams also on the list that are playing tonight and they are on the verge because they both have 19 losses. That would be the Celtics. I'm Sorry, Detroit is 39 and 13. They're right there as well. And they played Toronto tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Detroit, no case.

[Alan Hahn]

So Detroit will probably. Yes. So they're at 39, but 13. So it's going to be a while. Right. Are they going to. Are they going to lose seven in a row?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think so.

[Alan Hahn]

So there's okc and Detroit is on the verge. San Antonio feels on the verge. But then the last two. So that's three teams only. Last two are on are hanging on by a threat. Boston tonight plays Chicago. They're 34 and 19. Houston plays the Clippers tonight. They're 33 and 19. So both teams, one has to go basically six, zero, the other one has to go seven and oh.

[Don La Greca]

So there's to avoid it.

[Alan Hahn]

So the point I'm trying to make is that would leave us with only three teams.

[Don La Greca]

Right. And is that a reality? And if you had to rank the top three teams to win a title, you might give the three that have already done it or going to do it. Right. Yeah. You'd have the Pistons well, you'd have. The OKC would be one, right? You probably put the Pistons two.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, the first two, we'd have the Pistons three. But Vegas has. By the way, Vegas still has the Knicks as the favorite out of the East.

[Don La Greca]

Well, the Knicks are going to have.

[Alan Hahn]

So Vegas doesn't believe in Detroit, even though Detroit is statistically. Look at the numbers. Like, the numbers tell you a phenomenal.

[Don La Greca]

Season, but they're probably basing that off of.

[Alan Hahn]

So how.

[Don La Greca]

No, because Nick fans probably bet it heavy anyway.

[Alan Hahn]

So let me ask you, though, with what we know, history tells us one thing, but this year, does that completely eliminate it now? Like, do you believe that? Well, that's it. You know, you have this formula works. History proves it. So if this. Let's say the Celtics and the Rockets lose tonight, there's three teams and that's it. Or will this year be the outlier? Because there have been outliers.

[Don La Greca]

But here's what I was saying.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's a reality check for. For the Knicks and for their fans who are hoping to see this team contend for a championship. Now, it doesn't mean they can't make it to the Finals.

[Don La Greca]

Well, see, that's what I was going to say. Does this really change what you believed going in anyway?

[Alan Hahn]

All right, so I did put some more time in on this. How about Knicks history?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You curious to see when they've done it?

[Alan Hahn]

When they've done it? The two championship seasons in 70, 73. Did it both times. Oh, yeah, we did it 41st by a mile. The 94 team was on the verge of getting to 20th loss. Pat Riley. That's the famous story about Pat Riley stopping the plane. They were going to Sacramento. They had lost a bunch. The team was miserable. We're not going to Sacramento. We got a day off. We're going to Reno. Gave everybody cash. Blow it off. Blow off all the steam you can get back here in 24 hours. Got on the plane, went to Sacramento, won 15 straight games. So they got to the finals. They got to 40 wins before they got to that 20th loss. 92, 93 team won 60 games. They were 40 and 18. They lost, of course, to Michael Jordan in the conference final. The 97 team also got there, but they lost in the second round. But we all know the story about coming off the bench and guys got suspended. So I don't know how much you really want to put it to that. The 95 team, also, interesting enough, got to 39, but got to the 20th before they got to the 40th and so. And that team was out in the second round as well. So history does show that even in Knicks history, it has worked when they've gotten to finals, but it's also hasn't done anything in other years that they've done it. Right.

[Don La Greca]

But they went very far.

[Alan Hahn]

So I'm asking, in a year like this, do you buy this or do you say this is probably an outlier year because it feels so wide open and how could we possibly be down to three potential contenders?

[Don La Greca]

But it's interesting that you said it feels wide open.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Does it really feel wide open or.

[Don La Greca]

Does it feel like it's still the Thunder?

[Alan Hahn]

The East.

[Don La Greca]

The east is wide open.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, well, the question. All right, well, let's take the west out of it. Only one team in the east can win a championship because right now they're the only ones left. If the Celtics lose one more game.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

They're the last team in the east and they're, you know, again, they have. They'll have to win six in a row to avoid the 20th loss. I don't think they're going to do that.

[Don La Greca]

They won't be the only team. Like the Pistons won't be the only team. So if the Pistons do get to the 40.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

Right. And the Thunder do it, too, and the Thunder win the title, then it's still. It still exists.

[Alan Hahn]

My point is out of the east, though.

[Don La Greca]

Right? Out of the East.

[Alan Hahn]

So are we just conceding the fact that the winner's not coming out of the well again?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's a silly. The reason I push back, Don, is is that we can all say that and say how impossible it is, except you telling me that whoever wins the east won't be close to as good as the Pacers were last year and they were within a game of beating the Oklahoma City Thunder. So how can you. How can we rule out.

[Alan Hahn]

And then the other part of the question is if the Knicks get to the Finals but don't win it, which proves again, the 40 20, is it a bad season? Is it a failure.

[Don La Greca]

If they don't get to the final, if they get.

[Alan Hahn]

To the Finals, if they get the.

[Don La Greca]

No, no, no.

[Alan Hahn]

They get to the NBA Finals, but they lose to either the spurs or the Thunder. And the rule. So what? Like, you know, it's just that, like, that's what we're batting around right now is watching this team. They could look as good as they look Sunday. They could look as good as they look in other times. They, you could say, well, they've still won. What is it? Nine of their last 11. Boy, you could say. Well, they've lost two of their last three.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, right.

[Alan Hahn]

Like there's, like, what. Which one of you tonight's gonna leave Oregon tonight?

[Don La Greca]

Tonight, I think is very, very.

[Alan Hahn]

I think, again, this is always the getaway All Star break game, that some guys are already, like, leaving from that city to whatever destination they're going to. And that's a dangerous game. But after a loss like that, you'd kind of think, like, you better lock it in.

[Don La Greca]

Everybody's done tonight. Right. Or is there. Are there games tomorrow? There might be games tomorrow.

[Alan Hahn]

There might be games Thursday.

[Don La Greca]

Did you see how close the Knicks.

[Alan Hahn]

Came to it last year? They're usually two or three games. Yes. There's this, of course, Amazon.

[Don La Greca]

Did you see how close the Knicks came to doing it last year? They were 40 and 20 through 60 last year, but they suffered their 20th loss after they were 37 and 20. They were 37 and 19.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

So they came close last year.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

To doing it.

[Alan Hahn]

But they still didn't.

[Don La Greca]

They didn't.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what I mean?

[Don La Greca]

Almost. Because when they lost their 20th, then they rattled off three straight wins.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And got to the four. But.

[Alan Hahn]

But same thing can happen here and it still won't matter.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

The rule is the rules.

[Don La Greca]

But I guess the overall question. You're the one.

[Alan Hahn]

That's why I asked you, because you're the one that brings up the hockey one.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And in the end, what is it bigger? What's in the NFL? There's got to be, like, a mark in the NFL.

[Don La Greca]

The mark in the NFL for the longest time was chances of making the playoffs. If you start like 03.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

But now that they've added the extra wild card, it's kind of blowing. But this stat, to me, you can't ignore it. First of all, 79, 80, we're talking bird magic.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Right. So that's how far back it goes.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And if we take out the bucks, which I think is fair because there were 10 less games, only three teams have done it. It's a stat you can't ignore. I wonder if coaches. I wonder if it's a conversation in the room. We got to win tonight, guys. I don't think it's all.

[Alan Hahn]

I can't promise you it probably wasn't last night.

[Don La Greca]

No. Well, I guess if so in effect.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I don't know. It's a very impressive stat, but sometimes impressive stats are impressive because you can't believe how often it happened. But are you telling me that it's. That it's impossible that it wouldn't happen?

[Alan Hahn]

No, it's not. Because four times.

[Don La Greca]

But considering the teams.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's a wild.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It just means it shows you.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What it's ultimately telling you is you're a strong team. Good teams show you that they're good teams with the metal to win the championship, show you over the period of their first 60 games who they are.

[Don La Greca]

Right. And you know. Yeah. And the fact that OKC has done it tells you that's why I don't know if it moves the needle that much for the championship, because I think most even Nick fans felt like, hey, I think the best we can do is go to the final lose to okc. What this galvanizes is, but the spurs may end up doing it too, is that you know, Oklahoma City is probably going to go the thing that changes is because Detroit's going to do it. Does this make you shaky about getting out of the East? So it doesn't change. Doesn't change my narrative guys on them winning a championship, but it could change the narrative on how I feel about them getting out of the East.

[Rich Eisen]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. Guessing what do you think he's doing?

[Don La Greca]

He's guessing Fame by David Bowie. Is there a David Bowie song? Very influential. Big artist, big in the 70s.

[Alan Hahn]

All you people that are like you know, we gotta go back to when men were men in music. Oh yeah, just check out David Bowen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah it wouldn't hit the same though for some reason.

[Alan Hahn]

Before you get too upset about what you see today, check out.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, a lot of these I bet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The but the crowd that's super like that now I'm sure they that that same kind of person was probably like that when they saw David Bowie.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a fair point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They just weren't as loud and listen.

[Don La Greca]

My dad who is as conservative as anybody on the planet would see David Bowie and go what's her name?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah haha.

[Don La Greca]

And then just not Consume it.

[Alan Hahn]

And then how about.

[Don La Greca]

He didn't care. I did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

He didn't care it existed. He just said, you know what? I'm good. And he made fun of it, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It didn't become his life. Identity was hating David Bowie.

[Don La Greca]

And then. And then three seconds later, he was on to something else.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, Right. And then he saw, like, the. The Little Drummer Boy duet and was like, that's beautiful.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And didn't realize that's the same guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a moment in time. So I, you know, I really didn't become a Bowie fan until he died. Beside.

[Don La Greca]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Besides the biggest ones that everybody knew. But, like, I didn't like Life of Mars and stuff like that. His most acclaimed stuff, I didn't. Ziggy Sarda. Stuff I didn't get familiar with till he passed.

[Producer Anthony Pusick]

I'll tell you the truth.

[Don La Greca]

That's good.

[Alan Hahn]

The truth is you're kind of young for it, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm a little young.

[Don La Greca]

I'm a little young for it.

[Alan Hahn]

I wouldn't be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The big records were the only things I knew. And the ones that hip hop sampled, I gotta tell you, like, embarrassing as this one is. Kind of the same with Prince. I liked Prince. I knew he was a savant. I knew he was this musical genius. I knew all the stories about him, but it wasn't until he passed that I started putting on albums from the beginning and just hitting people. Prince is right up here, Adrian, right in your office.

[Don La Greca]

People are honest, which they rarely are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rarely.

[Don La Greca]

There's a lot of holes musically that everybody goes through. For some reason they missed.

[Alan Hahn]

And then you come back to it, and then.

[Don La Greca]

And then you're late to it, then you could appreciate it. And then we all want to jump them and they'll say, oh, no, I knew. I knew. It's like, no, just admit, like, there's some people, for whatever reason, just you kind of missed it in real time.

[Alan Hahn]

Wouldn't you argue that. That of all the things we hate the Internet and social media for, for what it's done to our society, the one redeeming thing is the fact that you can go back and easily find things that you at the time didn't either get, understand or care about, find it and then connect to it in a different way? Yeah, and I love that. I love how easy it is to do that. So that's a cool thing. You guys are bad teammates, by the way. Just put it out there. Because you didn't tell me at all that the hair was, like, sticking up. I don't Know Gordon Ramsey.

[Don La Greca]

I swear, if there was a Bible in front of me, killing me, I would swear on the Bible. I saw the coif, and I thought it was a decision.

[Alan Hahn]

I ran my fingers through my hair, and I didn't think, like, oh, I might have messed it up.

[Don La Greca]

I thought it was a decision he made and I was on board with it. I thought it looked great. I honestly did. I honestly did. You thought it's good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's how much she respects you. Think about that. How much you respect.

[Alan Hahn]

You turned around at the end of the break. Just our break. We were still obviously on YouTube because of the delay. And I couldn't believe no one said to me, hey, just. Just fix that real quick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I'm too bald to even notice what's bad.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. I'm like, no, I did. You don't know what bad hair is?

[Don La Greca]

No, I'm not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that not working for you?

[Don La Greca]

Actually, I. If you had asked me. Yeah, I thought it looked great. I thought it was a decision, and it was a great decision.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I find myself.

[Don La Greca]

And boy, it didn't take. Wasn't long for him to fix it. Right. He was quick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I find myself getting.

[Alan Hahn]

Trying not to be in the embarrassing portion of the show, but I tend to do it each day.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I find myself trying to. Speaking of embarrassment, you know, worrying about judgment on the list.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, I feel like when we get to the list, I feel like Alan and I are going to have, like, versions of a similar list.

[Alan Hahn]

Different, but, like, and reacting to it with curiosity.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Curiosity, like, really?

[Alan Hahn]

And then the judge will come out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I feel like Don Arbiter of all things rock and roll is going to be like, you're garbage for that selection. I promise it has no place.

[Alan Hahn]

Like yesterday when I just jokingly threw out one song and he just lost.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, he was.

[Alan Hahn]

You're already out, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. So that I'm a little intimidated by that. Because I'm thinking, like, I won't.

[Don La Greca]

I promise. I might disagree. I can't help it. I'm a talk show host. I agree. Disagree. I have an opinion.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you should have an opinion.

[Don La Greca]

But just like, when we come up with our list and we have to give reasons why it's on the list, well, the same will be on the person that's critical saying, I don't think that belongs on the list. Here's why I believe it doesn't belong.

[Alan Hahn]

Fair.

[Don La Greca]

Like, just go, that's terrible. Select. If I do that and don't back it up with facts. Well, then I look like the idiot that I'm being. That guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I have one setting. I have one song that I'm, like, flirting with whether I put it in.

[Alan Hahn]

I have one that's. But I know he's gonna be mad at me about the choice. I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So this one. This one isn't one that I think he'd be mad about the choice in terms of, like, genre or, like, style or anything. I think it's just a matter of, is it truly big enough to be in this sort of list? But at the same time, to me, the first notes of it are so absolutely impactful. When you think about what a certain era sounds like okay to me, I'm like, it's appropriate, even though it may not be big enough for us otherwise.

[Don La Greca]

Now get this done. Because I think. Alan, I've done it.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, I'm done. To novel.

[Don La Greca]

So did you send it to Jacob?

[Alan Hahn]

I sent him my list. I didn't send him my novel that I wrote.

[Don La Greca]

You wrote a novel for each song?

[Alan Hahn]

I got problems.

[Don La Greca]

But you have to send the list to Jacob, because the way we're going to do it is before you say it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

We're going to play the first few seconds of it. Because that's part of it. Because you play the first few seconds, and Alan and I are like, what song is that that's going to hurt your art?

[Alan Hahn]

Have a problem.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, hold on, hold on. You're saying play a few seconds, then talk.

[Producer Anthony Pusick]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't.

[Alan Hahn]

Because you'll know the song the minute it's. Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the whole. But I just think from. Just hear me out. From a presenting, climactic standpoint, you don't think it's more impactful that you say, this song was this, this, and this. It made you feel this, this, and this. You hype everyone up for it. And then does it deliver on the message that you just gave?

[Alan Hahn]

You do that way. Because I already have it in my. I already have it set up as the other way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. If you don't mind, I.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, we can all do it different.

[Don La Greca]

You're making a good point from a theatrical standpoint.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

But if you're really trying to sell.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It, then you shouldn't need to.

[Don La Greca]

Then you shouldn't. If I played the first 10 seconds of the song, and I don't know what it is, that's gonna really hurt your argument.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, but none of these are gonna be things where you don't know where it is.

[Don La Greca]

But I think I'm also thinking about the audience, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think the same thing, but. But subjectively. This whole thing is subjective.

[Don La Greca]

Of course it is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it's all about us painting a case. To me, I'd rather paint the case where I set it up and then.

[Alan Hahn]

Let the music you do you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, all we can do is make the case. The best case we make for the people.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, every presentation is different so we all don't have to follow the same format. I have my format. I like the idea of. I'm going to. I'm going to play the little, the little bit. You're going to hear it and I'm.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Going to tell you, this may change lists forever. How about that?

[Alan Hahn]

I agree. I agree.

[Don La Greca]

I like what we're doing.

[Alan Hahn]

This could be influential.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This could change the way we do.

[Alan Hahn]

Lists and why everybody does list.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we're like, this is how we do list and we make. No, no, I didn't say that. Right here in Don, Han and Rosenberg, baby. But, but what I'm saying is we all do the list and we really think about picking things that require this much thought and we'll get people this.

[Alan Hahn]

Animated about it and production, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it requires work. Make these guys earn their.

[Don La Greca]

We're, we're.

[Alan Hahn]

We're.

[Don La Greca]

Three seconds, literally. If I don't take a phone call within the next 10 seconds.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you're dead.

[Alan Hahn]

All I said in Don's ear. And Peter, I'll ask you because you're. You're a radio professional like the rest of us, not me. So we should make the 4:00 hour two segments. Because I feel like if we do this at a 4:30 segment, this will not take 12 minutes. Yeah, all I said.

[Don La Greca]

Well, maybe can I prepare? We tease and continue.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he's. Don't worry about it. He makes a good point, though.

[Don La Greca]

He makes a good point. But his tone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, his tone. Let me say something about Anthony, one of the.

[Alan Hahn]

He's the producer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me say something about Anthony.

[Alan Hahn]

What other tone is he supposed to have?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Anthony Pusick is a 10 as a producer. As to. As far as tones go, I'm not. He's not a 10. Okay? Tone isn't his number one thing. It's the message that he delivers that matters.

[Alan Hahn]

He's not Tone Loke.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, he's not Tone Loke, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll take. I'll take that with pride.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's still deaf, you know, he's not to. Look, he's totally deaf. But the message, his message is dead on though, because, like, maybe we just take Monica and then we take a.

[Alan Hahn]

Break because how annoying would it be if I go got break, got break, got break. While we're in number three of Peter's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Song and we've got Alex, whoever's up.

[Alan Hahn]

So I'm preparing myself now. This will be a two segment 4 o' clock hour.

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[Producer Anthony Pusick]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now he's really. He's set the tone.

[Alan Hahn]

He's definitely searching.

[Don La Greca]

Night divides the day. Gotta love Big one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pretty big one.

[Alan Hahn]

Did you like the movie?

[Don La Greca]

You know what I did. I haven't seen it a long time, but I just read the Val Kilmer memoir.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And he said that because the. The Doors were in on the movie. I'd hope so that who was. I forget which one said that. They got chills. But he walked in the room as Jim Morrison. Like that's how well Val Kilmer did with it.

[Alan Hahn]

If you look at old film and then look at that movie, he did such a good. It was almost like there was that scene we were just talking about Herb Brooks. Kurt Russell does that one scene where he's just skating and he's talking to the players and all the guys from the team when they were watching the movie said it was the same thing. Like in that moment, just for a second his mannerisms and the way he turned his head. Like Russell captured Herb in a way that you felt like that's Herb. Like if just that one moment. And it is hard to do. But I thought the same. I thought Val Kilmer nailed it in that role that movies was. That came out like 91, 92.

[Don La Greca]

That's an old movie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a while back now.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Val Kilmer book is good because he was. He lived a life. He wasn't quite to the level of Daniel Day Lewis but close and where he just dove into characters. He was just a little bit more diverse. Like he played. He did comedy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He did kind of another guy who's going too soon.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Don La Greca]

At least he got the 65 to James Vanderbeek. 48. 48 is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is not right.

[Don La Greca]

All right, Flavio gets us started in Brooklyn. You're on espn New York. What's up, man?

[Caller Flavio]

Hey, what's up, fellas? So I wanted to ask Alan. So I was watching yesterday's Nick game and I felt, I felt like what had. What Don had said about Indiana was going to treat this as like their Super Bowl. Felt like it was accurate, but it was kind of concerning just because like, I know Allen has said that this is like kind of the dog days of the NBA. And I don't know if this is a sign to worry with the, the lack of defense that the Knicks have been displaying because there was no reason why I felt like Indiana should have been able to go into overtime and then, you know, hit the numbers that they did with the Knicks. And I don't know if the Knicks were looking ahead knowing that they have the Sixers or just want to get into All Star break. I don't know if this is just a sign to worry, but I felt like Jalen Brunson, you know, played like a dog as usual, you know, and that's nothing to worry about. But I don't know, I just want to get Alan's insight and you guys as well.

[Don La Greca]

I'll tell you.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I appreciate it. And it's, that's the problem with losses like this is it makes you start second guessing when you try to look at big picture and you're like, well, wait a minute, they've just won nine of 11. Like, like they've been on a hell of a run. And going into the game last night, they were giving up 98 points a game over those 11 games. So the defense was better. They were allowing 28% shooting from three. And what happened was Indiana. And you were right, Don. I was right by. I'm situated by the visitors bench at home games. So I'm very tuned into what's being said, the mood, everything, right? Who's into the game. I've seen teams come in and I've seen like stars who look completely checked out. And you could see their bench, like trying to get the guy going. The guy you could just tell, he's just not about it. And last night I saw Rick Carlisle and the Pacers do one of these. Like, this is Knicks, Pacers. This is one we're going to lock in on. And the Knicks gave up some early open threes from. Because their defense just wasn't where it should be mentally. And a couple of guys started hitting them. And what happened? Now you start feeling good. That Pacer bench was up and energetic and feeling it. The building was rocking like there was just a buzz. So they were kind of into it and they, their competitive juices started going. You have Nemhard still, you have Smith, you have Seahawks. Like they still have a couple of dudes that are from the wars the last two years. So they got into it and the Knicks couldn't stop the. They had seven threes in the first quarter. They averaged 12 a game. So that started and the Knicks couldn't put the fire out. They scored 136 points. More than enough to win. More than enough to win.

[Don La Greca]

But you know what bothered me?

[Alan Hahn]

They couldn't stop a nosebleed. Their defense was atrocious and they thought, well, just outscored it, got too loose of a game. Schoolyard stuff, Both sides kind of joking with each other, laughing about stuff. And that, that to me was the danger part of it. You didn't take it serious. You still thought you were going to beat him. You were up 7 various points of the games where it looked like you're about to put them away and you didn't. And that's a bad loss.

[Don La Greca]

But, but you know what, the big issue for me, all that makes sense. But you get the overtime, Cat hits the foul shots and then you let them go on a 90 run to start OT.

[Alan Hahn]

Couldn't make a shot.

[Don La Greca]

Like, shouldn't you just be like, okay guys, we shouldn't be here, right? And just be the better team for five minutes? And they couldn't. And again, it took a while to wake up in overtime.

[Alan Hahn]

But Jalen Brunson, you saw his legs were shot at the end of that game. He missed short three shots that he should have easily made. Landry Shamut had great looks, couldn't, couldn't make a big shot. Now he has made big shots lately, but in this game he just missed good shots. And that's the part that kind of like Brunson got whatever he wanted, which is why he put up so many shots because nobody could guard him. He was killing them. But late in the game when it was put the game away. Time.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Short, short, short. He went for the killer three on one possession late in the game, last minute. And that was going to be the dagger nail this game over. He's short, short on it. And like sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't, all that stuff. But that, that's really what Happened.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Am I wrong in thinking that this team in general, over the last couple years, when they have these A lot of emotional games, they force OT a lot of times, then give it away immediately in two minutes at overtime?

[Alan Hahn]

The Knicks. No, they've been. They've been a pretty good OT team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I always feel like they. I feel like in big moments, I recall them running out of gas in overtime.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I mean, the running out of gas thing is you're used to. In the playoffs, like, we saw a lot of that. Like that. Again, the Pacer series was a whole lot of. Just didn't have enough in the tank late in the game. Sometimes having to climb all the way back.

[Don La Greca]

So let's go to Spike. Say, Pete, you're on espn, New York.

[Caller Spike]

Hey, guys. Thanks, Mama. Somewhere. Love guy. I know I'm out of the parameter, but I'll go. Hey, Jude. Knights and white Satin and white. A shade of pale. That's for my generous.

[Don La Greca]

All good.

[Caller Spike]

Am I good?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, very good. Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Love nights.

[Caller Spike]

No, no cheap shot jokes at me, but I'm big on the organ. Okay, here we go.

[Alan Hahn]

Vanilla. That's a drop.

[Caller Spike]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, we need that.

[Caller Spike]

Yeah, that's fine. I'm offering you guys whatever they call it. A friendly limb or something. If Orlando and the Knicks meet up, my oldest boy got season tickets behind the bench. Alan, you'll be working. But if Peter, you're in Orlando, or Don, you're doing the race game. Not the race, the Lightning game. We're taking a ride over in a limo over to Kia Santa, my treat.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, there you go.

[Don La Greca]

Now you're talking. All right.

[Caller Spike]

It's a lot of timing. There's a lot of timing if everyone's here and everybody's there. What I saw last night is a Hall of Fame coach and I saw a Baka Zubak sitting on a bench wearing something there. Thank God he didn't play. But my one statement, and thank you for everything. You guys are just great friends. I love you all. Here's my one statement before that game. Mike Brown or one of those guys sitting on the bench. You go over the cat and you say, the cat. You gotta put 30 and 15 up tonight on that. That white kid from Wisconsin, whoever was sitting there because Ubock couldn't suit up. And that trade will haunt them. That. That's a very bad trade, that. See, here's where I go. I think Kenny's going to get Cleveland in the spot and the Knicks are going to play Boston and Cleveland's going to take out the Pistons because that crap they pulled against Charlotte. Since Michael Jordan's gone. Charlotte's got three really good players with Brandon Miller and the right ball kid and the rookie you conquer, they may knock off someone in the play in I threw a lot at you. I'd love to hear the comments.

[Don La Greca]

Well, I appreciate the phone call as always and we'll keep in mind what your your offer.

[Alan Hahn]

Towns did have 22 and 14. He didn't get the 30. His three point shot is way off as we know. He did commit six fouls and some of them were those, you know, face palm offensive fouls. Why are you hooking the arm? Why do you keep doing it and all that. But he's still like, you know, he still gave you 22 and 14. But I'm telling you this, this doesn't this is an offense. This is an offense. 134 points. More than enough to win a game. It was allowing 18 threes, including seven in the first quarter. That's a bad tone to set at home. And Alvarado, by the way, who everybody was excited to see it make his Garden debut as a Nick. He struggled and I imagine he was probably overcome with a lot of like he probably had jitters, nerves, whatever it was, because he couldn't make a shot and really, really struggled to make an impact in this game like you normally would expect. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.