Hour 1: The Giants Future

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg — Hour 1: The Giants Future

Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Don Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Alan Hahn
Producer: ESPN New York

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the fallout from the New York Giants’ latest loss and the immediate firing of head coach Brian Daboll after a disappointing 2-8 start to the 2025 season. The hosts debate the timing and implications of the firing, evaluate GM Joe Schoen’s future, and speculate on the Giants' next head coach. Several callers join to voice their frustrations and ideas, while the hosts keep the discussion candid, passionate, and unfiltered.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brian Daboll Fired — Timing and Frustrations

• Firing Details:

  • Daboll was fired midseason after a 2-8 start, following a series of blown games where the Giants had a >90% win probability entering the 4th quarter but lost all.
  • Kafka (Offensive Coordinator) takes over as interim coach.

• Hosts’ Initial Reactions:

  • Don: “Are we happy with the when and the only? ... are you cool that it happened in the middle of the season?” [00:52]
  • Peter: “We’ve seen it enough at this point...yesterday had to be the final meal. It had to be.” [02:21]

• Roster/Front Office Accountability:

  • Discussion on GM Joe Schoen remaining while Daboll takes the fall; acknowledgement that each failed game was an embarrassing and recurring trend.
  • Don: “Even if you wanted Schoen gone...I’m happy today that Schoen is staying because that means it’s not John Mara making the decision on who the next head coach would be.” [03:36]
  • Detailed discussion on Mara’s inability to hire winning GMs or coaches and personal health issues impacting his hands-off approach. [04:00]

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2. Roster Analysis and Rebuild Path

• Schoen’s Roster Construction:

  • Peter: “This year's team had enough to be competitive for a playoff spot...still a very young team.” [05:01]
  • Discussion on continuity: letting the roster/GM build rather than blowing everything up with a full new regime.
  • Coaching staff blamed for key mistakes (notably, firing a successful DC and inexperienced kicker decisions).

• Missed Opportunities:

  • Peter laments: “You have four games that were supposed to be wins...all metrics told you the expectation of winning was over 90%.” [08:26]
  • The hosts enumerate games squandered: Dallas, New Orleans, Denver, Chicago—each dissected for blown leads and coaching inadequacy. [09:08-10:16]

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3. The Giants Head Coaching Search

• Belichick Debate:

  • Don floats Bill Belichick as a “get us back on track” candidate, not necessarily to chase a title but to instill discipline and respectability, likening his potential impact to Tom Thibodeau with the Knicks. [13:02-15:29]
    • “Can I just find somebody to kind of get us back on track, gets us out of the embarrassment pool?” — Don [14:21]
  • Peter and Allen skeptical: “That’s not a fit anymore...this is a young team.” [13:14-13:29]
  • Concerns about Belichick wanting GM-level control; whether Mara would accept the “circus” that could come with Belichick [12:44].

• Alternative Candidates:

  • Debate over “resume coaches” (experienced but maybe past their peak) vs. young/growing assistants.
  • Names floated: Mike McCarthy (“get you organized,” “at least you’d make the playoffs” [20:59]), Pete Carroll, Brian Flores (hosts agree Giants would balk due to his legal baggage), Steve Spagnuolo, Clint Kubiak.
  • Importance of a “leader of men,” not just a schematic genius: “I just need a leader...that’s what you’re looking for with the Giants right now.” — Peter [47:10]

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4. Caller Reactions: Disbelief & Resignation

• Common Themes:

  • Callers echo hosts’ exasperation with repeated blown games and “expected losses.”
  • Brian (season ticket holder): “Just reckless. I just thought [Daboll’s] actions on the sideline were never that of a leader.” [43:24]

• Roster vs. Coaching:

  • Debate on whether the Giants’ problems are deeper than coaching—one caller (Daniel) calls for John Mara and inner circle to stop making football decisions due to a lack of success since his inheritance of the team [36:20-38:43].
  • Peter: “The roster was good enough to be 6 and 4. Yes or no?” Don: “Yes.” [38:00]

• Crisis of Expectations:

  • Peter: “How are we not 6-4 right now...with a roster that is banged up but we are right. We should be right there. And instead, we’re all the way down in the basement at 2-8 and embarrassment and everybody’s laughing at us.” [21:36]

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5. Memorable Moments & Quotes

Daboll as a Lightning Rod

• “When is Dabel going to get fired?...he’s the only victim here.” — Don [00:52]
• “You have to separate [Schoen and Daboll].” — Don Allen [07:44]

Reputation of Collapse

• “If there’s a way to lose, they’ll find it.” — Don [32:56]
• “That’s the reputation of the Giants right now.” — Peter [24:46]
• “Those crazy records...when leading by 20, they’ve won 50 straight games...and then you got the bad teams that they’re .500 with a lead after seven innings...And that’s the Giants.” — Don [22:05–22:18]

Leadership & What’s Next

• “Failing in New York is 10 times failing in Tennessee.” — Don [19:47]
• “The Giants ain’t a team that’s messing with a guy who’s suing the league.” (on Brian Flores) — Don Allen [16:54]
• “Sometimes we fall too much into offensive/defensive genius — I just need a leader of men.” — Peter [47:10]

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Key Timestamps

• Don opens topic: Brian Daboll fired, questions of timing and blame [00:52]
• Roster vs. coaching: Giants should be 6-4, not 2-8 [03:12–03:35]
• Why Mara isn’t involved in football decisions [04:00–05:00]
• Roster construction & stability: keep GM, dump coach? [05:00–06:30]
• ‘Should have won’ games dissected [08:26–10:16]
• Belichick idea introduced, debated [12:42–15:29]
• “Leader of men” vs. schematic genius [47:10]
• Caller resonating with fans’ despair and lack of trust in ownership [36:20–38:43]

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Tone & Language

True to the hosts’ reputations, the discussion is blunt, witty, and laced with gallows humor. There’s both a sense of resignation and a search for hope amid the Giants’ dysfunction. Passionate about New York sports and alive with pop culture analogies, the dialogue doesn’t mince words but also seeks real solutions—if only to make the team “not a colossal embarrassment.”

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Conclusion

“Hour 1: The Giants Future” chronicles a franchise at a crossroads—one publicly grappling with a humiliating collapse, leadership vacuum, and an urgent need to rebuild trust and direction. The hosts parse the nuances of firing a coach midseason, the wisdom of keeping GM Joe Schoen, and the daunting task of identifying the next Giants head coach capable of righting the ship. Intelligent, fiery, and open-ended, the hour captures the pulse and pain of New York Giants fans at a breaking point, while looking for the first steps forward.

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Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

If you're not pushing the tush ton.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want you protecting my blind side and Rosenberg.

[Don Allen]

When I was seven, I was riding shotgun and smoking cigarettes.

[Don Hahn]

This is in North Dakota. This is New York.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is Don Han and Rosenberg.

[Caller Daniel]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Podcast Announcer]

ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I got a lot to say today and it was one of those nights where you're like laying in bed. All right, how am I going to articulate how I feel about just another miserable Giants loss? And when is Dabel going to get fired? And I turn on the Michael K Show and guess what, guys. Brian Dabel out of a job done, fired in the middle of what has been another dismal 2 and 8 start a third loss, guys in which they entered the fourth quarter with a plus 90 percentile of winning the game in and losing them all. It had to happen. But are we happy with the when and the only. Those are the two words that I want to really get into today, guys. The when are you cool that it happened in the middle of the season. Kafka takes over and we saw the disaster it was for the jets defense when they decided to make a change in the middle of the season. The one thing that was effective became unaffective because they took Ulbricht away from the defense and now it's you're taking Kafka away from your star quarterback and the only meaning that he's right now and that'll change once the season is over. The only victim here. But reading the press release, guys, Joe Shane's not going anywhere. So they made the decision that they've got the talent and the means to win and Brian Dable is the reason they have not Pretty clear.

[Don Allen]

Hard to argue also, I mean it's just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean we've seen it enough at this point yesterday if that that had to be the final meal. It had to be.

[Don Hahn]

Had to be. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

For everything that you saw this front office really like I'd be livid if I was anybody in that front office. Livid. Because you know what when you look at the four games that they lost and the way they lost them and the leads that they had in those four games, you look at your record, you look at the division and you say, you know, he should be 6 and 4. Our roster, with all the injuries, with a rookie quarterback still was in position close enough to say we mathematically should be 6 and 4 on the season and right in line of making the playoffs and pushing for the division with.

[Don Allen]

You're not with a commander's team that's finished.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I mean. You have that Cowboys.

[Don Allen]

Cowboys lost to Arizona last week. They look like they're basically finished. You could legitimately be having a conversation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This season that there's still enough time left in the season to even make a claim for a division because an Eagles team that is good, not great this year.

[Don Hahn]

Yep. And instead now you're destined, even if they kept dable, to another 3, 4 win season, which is exactly what John Maris said could not happen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

If they were going to bring everybody back. But you know Shane is going to stay and here's why. It's a good thing. Even if you wanted Shane gone and I said it to you last week, guys, that I felt just wipe it clean. All right. Let's stop having the conversation. Who stays, who goes. Just start over. Even if you're of that opinion, as I was, I'm happy today that Shane is staying because that means that it's not John Marra making the decision on who the next head coach would be. Feel awful about Shane. Feel awful about the 22 draft, the 23 draft in which he's not aging well, the 24 draft. Think that he has done a terrible job. He's still more equipped to make the decision on who the next head coach is than John Mara is to pick the next general manager and head coach. Not only has John showed you a complete inability to do that, he's also right now going through it with his cancer. You heard Jordan Ron on. On with K earlier today saying he's not even making road trips. Okay. That's all he said. He's like, it's strange for John Marin not to make road trips. So he's going through it right now and we wish him well and I think he'll be okay. But during this process, he's got other things to worry about that are way more important than who his general manager and head coach are. He's got life things that he's going through right now. Plus he's not any good at it anyway. So now Joe Shane gets to pick it. And of all the people that could pick it within the organization, guys, I feel better that Joe's making this call and not John.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I completely agree. And first of all, there still is a need for some stability. What we saw this roster building process is a team, like I said, I'm telling you, this year's team, when you look at the roster building, had enough to be competitive for a playoff spot as you're building forward, still a very young team with most of their skill. Right. The injuries that impacted this team, you can't deny, especially Malik neighbors. But you can make the argument that the roster building process from breaking down the previous roster that they took over three years ago and building it forward with draft picks and obviously finding the quarterback, it gives you, it gives you reason to say, okay, there is, there is a process here that looks like a team that should be a playoff team and it should continue. So that's why you don't want to bring in a whole new regime, because that whole new regime now wants to bring in their own players and it changes everything up. You don't want to deal with that. And I, again, like I would be, I'd be furious at the coaching staff for a lot of the decisions that were made, including starting with taking a defensive coordinator that was one of the best in the league and sending him home because you couldn't get along with him because he was mad and his players were mad that your offense stunk. Let's start there. You decide to use a kicker with zero NFL experience instead of going with experienced kickers that they provided once Gano had all his injuries. It's little things like that to me, that create the dividend. That's why this is no longer. We always thought they were tethered. We always thought it was all that they were all together on this. But it's not. And you know, if I'm Joe Shane, I'm looking for a coach that's going to fit the roster we're building rather than now, it's like, well, he's coming in with a different system now. We got to change everything again. So you're going to be very specific about who you're targeting. So to me, the biggest question I would ask all Giants fans and we're getting the calls racked up for you at 800 now. 193776 the question I have is like, because Mike Kafka right now, he's going to be auditioning for this job. This is his offense too. And he's had success with Jackson Dart. There's the continuity part if you're looking for that as a fan maybe that's your chance. So he's going to have an audition to finish the season but who would be the best fit? That's what you have to start talking about now. Now that he's gone you can't complain anymore about the previous coach he's out. Who is the best fit now to advance the cause for the Giants.

[Don Allen]

So that is an interesting question.

[Don Hahn]

It is, it's a fascinating. Well I'm glad we have three and.

[Don Allen]

A half hours to ponder.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes we do but I, but, but.

[Don Allen]

Before and before we start diving into that I do want to say I do think at one point you know Shane and Dable were tethered.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Allen]

And they could have continued to be tethered but at a certain point when you're watching how the product is on the field it's pretty clear you can it you have to separate them but you also pretty good on this team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you also see when it started to. Oh yeah you could see it and.

[Don Hahn]

Jordan mentioned that too on the case show that sometime last year you saw that they were no longer connected.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Here's what Jordan talked about with Michael.

[Caller Falvio]

K. There was a point last year where that ended and that relationship isn't what it used to be. Yeah. That's my interpretation of the situation.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Caller Falvio]

From, from talking to people over the past year is that sort of, you know that kind of cooled off their relationship. Joe Chains basically and then the front officer sitting there saying we have talent and then Brian Abels blaming it on me. We don't look at the roster we have. This isn't good enough.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And yet you have four games that were supposed to be wins that all metrics told you the expectation of winning was over 90%.

[Don Allen]

Yeah. These aren't games like you don. We're not talking about games you could have won we're talking about games that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Should have the closest one that they that you would argue but there's still Giants Cowboys 14 seconds to go. Up 37, 3414 seconds to go.

[Don Allen]

No, no, I remember it well now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I understand that that's still a three point game Anything can happen all that stuff I get all that but that's a. And the guy made what he make like a 65 yard already. Yes, it was crazy but still that's, that's a. That's got to be a win.

[Don Hahn]

That's a 90% in overtime too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There you go. And then of Course, that. The wonderful Saints game where you're up 14 to 3 early in that game. You should win that game against a bad football. A bad football team that you are already up big on them. You just keep going. And instead you gave up offense to a team that they're horrible. We all know the Denver game. We'll never forget that, of course. Fourth quarter, five minutes to go up 26 to eight. And then what we saw yesterday, 20 to 10. And really, you could argue it should have been 24.

[Don Hahn]

And when it's one, like, you can make an excuse, isolate any of those four games and say, hey, blank happens. Right. Dallas game is just a wild game and Russell Wilson was just your quarterback. And then the Saints game, it was early in darts career, he turned the ball over. Kids are going to do that. All right. That one, Denver, hey, it was the high altitude. They lost a couple of safe secondary guys in that game. Things happen. Chicago, well, you played mostly the second half of that game without Jackson Dart. And clearly Wilson didn't look like he even wanted to be on the field.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but in each case, Don their defense.

[Don Hahn]

Right, Exactly. But I'm siding with you in the case of each one. Isolated, separate. Yes. But if you look at all four of them, it's now a trend. And the one trend is, why did you lose to Dallas? Because you gave up 40 some odd points. Why did you lose to the Saints? Because you could not put any pressure on the quarterback. You did not sack a quarterback that went into that game having never won an NFL game in 10.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ratler.

[Don Hahn]

Right. You lost the Denver game because you could not get a stop in a big spot at all. Fourth quarter you played prevent defense. Right. Not learning from what happened in Dallas a few weeks prior. And in a game yesterday where the defense, I thought, was pretty stout throughout the game, but when it mattered, they could not stop a nosebleed. So that's the problem, and that's what's irritating a lot of people is that why is. Why does Bowen still love a job? Well, because you have to function. All right? Like somebody's head had to be on a platter. But you got to get through these final seven games and you can't blow it all up. The only argument would have been, could you. Could you have just held your nose for the next seven weeks and fired Dable at the end of the season? But it sounds to me like they really want to get going and get.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Working on this right away and give Kafka a chance. Like, give him a look.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And you really have to like just go over with a fine tooth comb. You can't get this one wrong. And Shane knows he can't get it wrong because he's been given a reprieve here because they believe they've got enough talent to win. But he can't screw this, this coaching job up. So it's really interesting to see Peter makes a point. We got a long show to dissect it. I just wonder, and I'm going to throw it out here early. Is Belichick more attractive Because Shane stays. My problem with bringing in Belichick is if he wants to buy the groceries. I'm good because I saw especially in the latter years in New England, he was not great at that. Not awful at it, but not great. And I'm not bringing in a 72 year old to take over two jobs. But if it's just a coach and you explained to him this has been your dream job. I got a guy that's going to buy the groceries. You know, I got an OC in Kafka. Bring in your defensive guy. You can get your hand fingerprints all over that if you want because that's your ballywork. That's your expertise. You're just a coach. Dump the girlfriend and climb aboard.

[Don Allen]

But that's a requirement.

[Don Hahn]

I would think it would be for Mara. Would it be for me? Not necessarily, but I feel like that would be a require. I don't know if Mara would want to bring in that circus. Her walking the sideline. That doesn't sound like. Or maybe not dump the girlfriend. It'd be like, you know what? The girlfriend stays in the press.

[Peter Rosenberg]

She's done it. Yeah. She has no access to the field or the facilities here.

[Don Hahn]

Give me your credit card. We'll get her tickets.

[Don Allen]

You gotcha. Do you think that's gonna be. I don't.

[Don Hahn]

More attractive.

[Don Allen]

I don't think it becomes real.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't see him as a candidate for this job. I think they have moved beyond that. That was last year. And it felt like it had an opportunity last year before we saw everything. But when you consider this is a young team. Don.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is a young team. When you think about the core of the talent on this team, it's young. That's not a fit anymore.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, but hear me out on this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got you.

[Don Hahn]

And I'm not even like 100% on board, but I'm deciding whether I want to get on board or not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like the ship's.

[Don Hahn]

There's. And the per. I don't know what? The who you'd call that. It's like helping you aboard so you don't fall between the cracks and end up in the water.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The purser.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, the purser.

[Don Allen]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Gopher is there to help me decide whether I'm going to go in there or not. Is. Guys, we're a long ways away from a championship right now. We're an embarrassment. We got to get back on course, man. And I know everybody wants to bring in the young assistant that's eventually going to lead this team to a championship. Can I. Can I just find somebody just kind of get us back on track, gets us out of the embarrassment pool?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tom Thibodeau.

[Don Hahn]

Just. Just moving us in the right direction and then eventually hand it off to somebody that could be ready to win. Like, don't let's. Everybody thinks about who's going to win us the next champion. I'm not even thinking of champ. I'm just thinking about when are we going to finish above.500. When are we going to not be a colossal embarrassment? And could Bill Belichick be that guy to kind of just right. The ship you're looking for.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. You're looking for the Giants version of Tom Thibbett.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Get. Get somebody. Get a guy in who has experience and can just get us back on track. Organize. Might not be the one that get it over the top, but just get you back to where you're functioning.

[Don Hahn]

Aren't the Knicks where they. Where the Giants are when Thibodeau took over?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, they were. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Very much so. And very much so.

[Don Hahn]

And now we're having a conversation about this team representing the Eastern Conference in the. In the NBA Finals this year. Right. So, I mean, that's why I would look at it. Is Bill Belichick going to win us a trophy? No, I don't think this team's close to winning a trophy. But we're also one of the most embarrassing franchises over the last half a decade. And I just need to kind of right the ship. And you think Bill could do that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know.

[Don Hahn]

Anything he can. Is it worth it now? If you don't think he can, Peter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Then it's a North starter. It's worth keeping at seven. What is he, 71?

[Don Hahn]

72.

[Peter Rosenberg]

72.

[Don Hahn]

72.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even at 72, what would you need from him? Two years? Three.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I would say two to three years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it's not like you're looking at this as a look. There's not much long term anybody's doing when you're in your 70s, right. You're always planning short term, but that's. That's kind of where you're trying to go. I just don't know with everything that he would bring with him.

[Caller Falvio]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, that's the part you worry about the most. I'm with you, though, in the sense that I don't know if I want to go for, you know, Clint Kubiak's name comes up, everybody excited about him. Todd Monkin. Like, these are names that. Yeah, well, at least Lane has done it in the NFL, do it well. But he did it. Like, I'm looking for somebody that probably had. Now I've heard Brian Flores. Like, people are talking about him, and I, you know, is that somebody that gets you. Right, get you organized? You know, those are the kinds of things I'm looking for, is give me somebody with a resume that has done it somewhere before successfully, that can show me how to do it again. Pete Carroll, to me, was a name that I looked at as. He can at least get you. Right.

[Don Allen]

I thought. I thought that, too. They don't seem that right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I mean.

[Don Hahn]

And I'll tell you what started well.

[Don Allen]

I saw the name Brian Flores getting tossed around.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're good.

[Don Hahn]

It's not about me.

[Don Allen]

I think you'd be interesting. The Giants ain't a team that's messing with a guy who's suing the league.

[Don Hahn]

That.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's just.

[Don Allen]

To me, that's not Giants.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really Good point.

[Don Allen]

I just don't see them.

[Don Hahn]

That is talking about baggage.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Very good.

[Don Hahn]

That's more significant baggage than what Belichick's got. See, because as I was, like, up last night thinking about what we were going to talk about before the firing, I said, john can't make this decision if when they let everybody go at the end of the year, he's going to have to bring somebody in. He's going to have to talk to a Corsi, he's going to have to talk to Parcells, you know, reconnect with Conklin, get somebody with blood in the ground to kind of help you get this back on track and help you hire the right people? So. And I was thinking about that. I'm like, well, now that the job is open officially, could Belichick work in that capacity where he could be somebody that, you know, he loves the organization and desperately wants to get back into the NFL and cares about this organization where he's not going to just think about himself. He's also going to want to leave this in the right place. And if you explain to him this is short term, just get us back on track. You're not involved in the draft, but you're gonna, you're gonna help hire some coaches here. You're gonna try to get this organization moving forward with the feeling that when we do find our guy, you're gonna be there to make that transition. And maybe Belichick looks at as a challenge. You go, you know what? You're not gonna have to make that Chan transition because I'm gonna win for you. Well, all the better. But I don't see that. I just think it's at least worth the conversation because you love that term. Blood in the ground. He's got that. He is somebody that wants this job. This job is not that it's attractive because of dart, but they had this conversation on the morning show. Like Dave was saying, it's still the New York Giants. I get that. But that's kind of going by the wayside. The more they lose, the more they embarrass themselves. There's more attractive jobs out there, guys, teams that are closer to winning. Now, maybe there's a coach that's salivating to work with Jackson darts, but the idea is, oh, I'm the Giants coach. I don't know how attractive that is anymore. Yeah, you got, now you got Belichick, that this is. This is his dream job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's. I, I understand what you're saying, because I do feel like that cliche. There's only 32 of them, so everybody will want the job. I. That's for anybody. But when you're trying to find an elite coach, you're trying to find somebody that's going to do what you need them to do, somebody with a resume. You know, that, that'll. Those, those guys that are sought after can be, you know, choosy. Like, Mike Vrabel was never going to consider the Jets. He was never going to consider the not, not legitimately. He'd use them as leverage so he can get what he wants elsewhere. But Vrabel was never going to take a Jets job because he knows, like, nah, I ain't a place to go. Like, he's already coached once. He knew there was an opening that he wanted, which was New England, and that's where he was going to go. And look how they look right now.

[Don Hahn]

So are the Giants a legacy franchise? Absolutely, they are. But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you're right.

[Don Hahn]

Failing in New York is 10 times failing in Tennessee.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Exactly.

[Don Hahn]

And Jacksonville. Yeah, in Carolina.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. And how's it worked out for Guys who have already tried here once, are they getting second jobs? When was the Last time Ben McAteau.

[Don Hahn]

Was a head coach in New York? Period? Guys, think of the coaches that failed here, that even got a second chance someplace else. Any of them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, think about the last coaches that the Giants have had.

[Don Hahn]

None of them were head coaches again, Judge McAdoo, Pat Shermer ends up at.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Colorado, right, as a coordinator.

[Don Hahn]

Judge is back in college. McAdoo is somewhere, I forget where, since.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tom Coughlin, no one else, no one that they have gone through has ever moved on somewhere else and said, oh, we lost a good one. That guy's a good coach. That didn't happen. And that's why you've got to find somebody again. Mike McCarthy has a resume. He's another guy that can get you organized. He can get you right. Of course you'll get frustrated because late in games, he'll do something stupid and you'll all get mad. But you know what's nice? Yeah. It's late in the playoff game and he did something that messed up. You know, the clock, management. You're mad, but you're in a playoff game and a playoff game, you know, you're like, you, like, you got to get there at this point. And McCarthy's a guy that's proven already in two different places that he can do that.

[Don Hahn]

So I think fans sometimes in all sports, they start to think about who's going to be the next coach to lead us to a championship. I don't want to sound like Jim Moore, but like playoffs at this point, you know, three consecutive two and eight seasons right now, I just want to see 500. I want to play meaningful games in December. I don't want to look like a colossal embarrassment where the butt of jokes that that's what I'm striving for. And then once you establish that, and.

[Don Allen]

That seems very doable, by the way. I mean, they, they're. They are that for 80% of games, guys, I'm telling you, they lose.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They believe they should be 6 and 4. That's the most frustrating thing going on right now.

[Don Hahn]

They believe.

[Don Allen]

Anyone with eyes believe they are like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How are we not 6 and 4? 4 right now in the middle of everything with a roster that is banged up. But we are right. We should be right there. And instead we're all the way down in the basement at 2 and 8 in embarrassment and everybody's laughing at us. And it shouldn't be like that again.

[Don Hahn]

You know how it is in all sports, right? The good Teams are the teams with a.950 winning percentage when they have a lead after seven innings. Right. After two, heading to the fourth quarter. Right. Because those are teams that don't blow it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Those are teams that, you know, you can't beat because they're well coached and they're well structured.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Those crazy records of, of like, you know, when leading by 20, they're, you know, 40. They've won 50 straight games.

[Don Hahn]

And then you got the bad teams that, you know, they're.500 going into the third and they're under.500 with a lead after seven innings. And that's the Giants. It's like when they have a lead, never mind a lead, a 90 plus percentile chance of winning the game, still finding a way to lose it. And you know what? I. You can't say you were surprised by yesterday, were you? I wasn't surprised they lost that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, by them losing the game?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. When they were up 20 to 10. Like, did you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, like I didn't have it.

[Don Hahn]

No, I had it totally on the table.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's, here's exactly. We were watching the game at MSG before the Knicks game. We were all in the control in the studio, courtside.

[Don Hahn]

Drop some names. I appreciate that. I want to know. Paint the worst, everybody.

[Don Allen]

The greats and near grades.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know the great Betsy Ronan. Right. She's stage manager.

[Don Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Extraordinaire. She was there. Anthony knows. All right, so Betsy was in there. Zerbiak came in there.

[Don Hahn]

Have a team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Steve Novak.

[Don Hahn]

But this doesn't count, though.

[Don Allen]

Alan literally was minding his own business and John sitting there working with Don's, forcing him to name people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. I just want to get A nice Monica McNutt. Also watching Commander's.

[Don Hahn]

If you're in a room of people that you know, two of them played in the NBA. You know, one of them is, is a world class analyst.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, he's not dropping nobodies.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Don Allen]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, and Dave Ornstein, who's our audio guy.

[Don Hahn]

All right, now, you know, no offense to him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jeffrey Pearl. We've seen him as a stage manager also. He's done some big stuff. He does New Year's Eve all the time. He's the guy that got into it. Mariah Carey, Remember that couple years ago?

[Don Allen]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mariah Carey blamed him for stuff when it was raining.

[Don Allen]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, I remember. I remember that. Yeah.

[Don Allen]

Now we're getting some great guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Awesome guy like he is. Anyways, we're all watching and they don't go for it on 4th and inches at the goal line and everybody all agreed they will lose this game.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because they're hit. Because the history told you the last. Right. All the way. They've blown games this season. They don't go for it. There's. They're going to lose this game and it ended up happening. I'm. Look, you asked me what the mood was. That was.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, I know. I'm just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You could argue whether it's the right decision.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just saying I was cool with making it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's fine. None of us were. None of us were.

[Don Hahn]

Because you know what happens then? They get stuffed at the goal line.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then what cargo marches right down the marches. Marches down the field. It was, it was, it would have been first and 10 at the half yard mark. Right.

[Don Hahn]

And so. So what? And then it's 99 and a half. The defense in a big spot. Can't stop anybody.

[Don Allen]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I'm just telling you that's where we all were. That's what we were all feeling and that is the reputation of the Giants right now.

[Don Allen]

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[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Allen]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

On the road again.

[Don Hahn]

On the road again.

[Don Allen]

That's right. Now is that about Dable or is about the Giants or both or.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don's home right now. But this is like a last home game for a while, right? Don't he.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. There was it Chicago, Washington and then we, we hit the, then we got the, the Florida, the Tampa, Florida Philadelphia.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Trip right before Thanksgiving.

[Don Hahn]

Yes. But I'm not going to Chicago because TNT took that.

[Don Allen]

Oh, that's nice.

[Don Hahn]

So I'll train down to D.C. then we come home and then we'll leave again. So it's not that long.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That works out.

[Don Allen]

That works out nice for you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And hopefully this, you know, because I got to, I got to hook up with the team in Tampa. Hopefully this whole government shutdown is done by then. And because this weekend was a disaster trying to travel commercially.

[Don Allen]

Laura, Laura Stiles has been stuck in Puerto Rico. She went to the. She was there for a conference. She went to the airport yesterday for a five o' clock flight. She's with her partner in their and their five year old and got on a plane then were forced to drive back and D plane. Their flight was eventually canceled at 2:30am oh boy. That. I mean that's what people are going through right now. It's bad out there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. But it's nice. Like when you say hopefully the shutdown will end soon.

[Don Allen]

Yeah, we could. It could be. It at least could be that by Thanksgiving travels not a complete nightmare.

[Don Hahn]

But they were saying you think I mean I don't want to derail our table conversation but we got called. People are affected by this. Is that even when the shutdown ends they got an inordinate amount of air traffic controllers that decided to retire during this. So they still have to hire and train a bunch. So they're not sure that it's just going to automatically go back to normal once the shutdown's over. So we got that to look forward to. Great.

[Don Allen]

There's always that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Which is nice. Well, I already know what I'm getting done for Christmas. Just so you know.

[Don Allen]

What.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Should I tell them?

[Don Allen]

Well, why would you say It. If you're not going to tell him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I thought you would just nod and agree with me.

[Don Allen]

Oh, yeah. Good plan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We talked about it off the air.

[Don Allen]

That's right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, we don't want Don to know.

[Don Hahn]

Well, but those.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Those watching on YouTube might have an idea of what we definitely need.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I'm trying to get. I've got my iPad here at the Rock and now won't take the video for whatever reason. So now I'm back to using my phone, which is a whole different angle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, is that it, sir?

[Don Hahn]

It sure is, but I'm working. So is this better than nothing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's definitely better than nothing, but. But I want you to look your best. I'm here to facilitate your greatness.

[Don Hahn]

So what I'm. What are you going to get me for Christmas that's going to change all this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You'll see. You'll see. And you're going to love it.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You love the other gift I got.

[Don Allen]

You're going to have to know which item he's actually using, though, in order to get him the thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Trust me.

[Don Hahn]

I'm on something I got to wear.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Nope.

[Don Hahn]

Do I look? How does it look now? A little bit better.

[Don Allen]

I don't see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're a little. We're a little behind on the video.

[Don Allen]

We'll let you know in a second.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not behind.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just working on it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, it's being worked on. Anthony's working on your look right now. We're efforting. We're doing some editing. In the meantime, let's. Let's take some calls. 800-919-3776.

[Don Allen]

Make him feel bad here. You broke him again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't break any.

[Don Hahn]

I'm helping him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm trying to make.

[Don Hahn]

You heard him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is a man who is quickly becoming an ascending.

[Don Allen]

How's that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's becoming an ascending star. All right. That's good. It's a good lighting.

[Don Allen]

But it's still up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's up. But it's good lighting on his face now. He looks good.

[Don Allen]

Yeah. That's a better shot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Looks great.

[Don Allen]

I see the dismay on his.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He just. He looks very upset.

[Don Hahn]

I just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You could tell he got nice cleanup underneath the beer. Looks very nice, right? Looks fantastic. I just want him to be his best. This is a man who is an ascending superstar in broadcasting. We know this. I don't want any excuses for anybody that's like, yeah, you know what? We were gonna give him that national gig, but did you ever see his. The shots that he has on his radio show.

[Don Hahn]

Terrible solves this. Peter, what are you guys gonna think about Christmas is gonna solve it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want you to have anticipation for this gift. And when you open it, you will smile and. And once again you will say thanks.

[Don Hahn]

You are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's exactly that.

[Don Allen]

That's exactly what you'll say.

[Don Hahn]

Or is it going to be the other thank you.

[Don Allen]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Sorry, bro.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Falvio in Brooklyn will start us off on the ton of Giants calls we have reacting to the firing of Brian dabel after week 10. Falvio, start us off.

[Caller Falvio]

Hey, what's going on, guys? Just wanted to start this off. Hopefully I win the sweepstakes with Peter so I can go to the event on Saturday. I'm really looking forward to this USC card on Saturday. I think is the best card since 2016, but wow. Yeah. No, seriously, like, it's. It's a really good card from top to bottom. It's the best card since the. Since Connor headline in 2016.

[Don Hahn]

But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he really wants to go. He really wants to win this thing. Did we.

[Don Allen]

We didn't announce the grand prize yet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't believe you entered though.

[Don Allen]

Right? You entered the contest.

[Caller Falvio]

Yes, I did. Me and I go enter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Perfect.

[Caller Falvio]

So for the whole firing of Brian Dable, I was fine with it. I think. I mean, I'm glad that they got rid of him. You know, I wish they would have got rid of the dc. I understand why they couldn't get rid of him. It would have been. It would have been great if they got rid of him because, you know, we could have been 6 and 4 and you know, that would have been crazy to think entering this year, you know, a 6 and 4 start. But, you know, I mean, I was, I wasn't surprised that we lost against the Bears. I mean, the Bears could have been had. But, you know, it was just unfortunate.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You should be surprised you lost that game. You should be. You should be mad that you lost that. You should. Did. No reason to have lost that game, buddy.

[Don Hahn]

But he's seen the past.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, the reputation but doesn't that then. Doesn't that basically tell you and thanks for the call. That's the problem. Right? It's the reputation now procedure. That's the point I was trying to make. Don. Before the break, we were all in this room watching the game and we, we immediately felt, oh, they're going to lose this game now because they didn't go. They didn't get the touchdown that they took the three instead. That's, that's, that's the Point I'm, I'm not making, I'm not arguing whether it was the right decision or wrong decision. It's just the reputation that they had was the expectation of, well, they'll lose this one now. Right.

[Don Hahn]

Well, it's just no matter what, even if they had gotten the touchdown, Bears probably score late, tie the game, and then they lose in overtime. If there's a way to lose, they'll find it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And, and the, and the opposition knows that they do the homework, so they, they engage.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Because they feel that they'll let us back in, they'll screw this up somehow. We need to be there and pounce. Now listen, The Bears are 6 and 2. They're 6 and 4. They're not a great team, but they're 6 and 4. Yeah, they found ways to win games. I don't think they're that great a team either.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Very beatable.

[Don Hahn]

But, and that's this league, guys. That's the difference. Like you're thinking, wow, they would never be 6 and 1. No, they could be 6 and 4, which then put you in a conversation to be in a playoff team. That's how close this NFL is. And every penalty, every turnover, every mistake just so greatly gets exposed unless you're playing another team. That's just like you. And we saw that a couple of years ago when the jets play the Giants. Right. Like two teams just flat out couldn't win the game. And until eventually the jets did. Like, so that, that's what's so frustrating, is this still could be a year where we're talking about the playoffs.

[Don Allen]

And Don, I understand why you didn't hate the decision at the time to not go for it from the 6 inch line or whatever it was. But to me, guys, it's another example of just Dable not showing any confidence in this team, not grabbing it in the moment. It was almost like Joe Judge, you know, going for the QB sneak from their own five. It's like if you, if you end up with a six inch line, Don, and you've been given a first down.

[Don Hahn]

You got three shots, you just got.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To mush the line forward six inches. Now, I, I, you can then kick a field goal.

[Don Allen]

You don't do it three times, kick the field goal again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I feel like he saw Russ because the play before that, Russ had a chance to run through the mid, running up the middle, and I forget what linebacker met him, but he was like, that's how they got that close. He, he gave himself up. Like, that's a, I know, Russell Wilson's a guy that. And I know this sounds stupid, nobody wants to get hit. So when I say this, I don't say it for it. You know what I mean? When I say he doesn't want to get hit.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's avoiding the, the like to extend the play. No chance getting that out of him anymore. And if I'm there, I might be like, you know, like, what am I going to ask him? The quarterback sneak, he's. He might take a step backwards.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. See, that's why.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the only thing I can understand. But I'm not defending the. I'm not defending.

[Don Hahn]

I wouldn't have been mad if they did go for it. I'm just saying that he has to. In that decision. He's thinking, I got a quarterback that is making different decisions that are what's good for us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And, and I don't want to give them the momentum and I want to get a two possession game. Now where he lost me is he didn't seem to, you know, he talked about our defense was playing well and.

[Don Allen]

Or.

[Don Hahn]

Talking about the defense struggles down the stretch. Well, all the more reason, I guess to try to get more points and not knowing when Dart got hurt. Listen, I'm not defending him. He deserved to be fired. He deserved to be fired. I'm just saying in that moment because Peter, I'm thinking they find ways to blow this. I'm like, just take the two possession lead, you know, and I think that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What he was thinking. It's just give me the, give me the two possession lead because I don't trust my defense and I don't want to risk a fumble or something that happens here where now we're only up by 7. Let's go to Dan and Bloomfield next. Daniel.

[Caller Daniel]

Guys, what's going on?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's happening, Dan?

[Caller Daniel]

Not much. Not much. So listen, listen. I mean, obviously they're poorly coached. It was time. We get it. But unfortunately, you know, for me, I'm kind of at the point where like nothing really matters until John Mara is out of making football decisions. And you know, Chris Mara and Tim McDonald and Kevin Abrams aren't evaluating players for me, guys. Because look, guys, John Mara has never hired a winning head coach. And I can't even give him credit for Jerry Reese because Jerry Reese was groomed by Ernie. Of course he. Ernie, of course he passed it down. And Jerry Reese finished with a 90 and 82 record. John Mara, if you remember, he didn't hire Tom Coughlin. His father did. So it's really hard for me to even trust it. And then for anything that they do. And then now they're doing this again. Where a GM gets. And really, Joe Shane should have been out the door today too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I disagree.

[Caller Daniel]

Daniel Shesky. So Gunnar Ol Shesky's lining up outside. When you have Will, Jordan Humphrey and Jalen Hyatt on this roster, you know you're not using them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Caller Daniel]

The mismanage.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Caller Daniel]

I got you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a coaching decision to line up people. That's not a. That's not a GM. GM's not telling him where to play a guy.

[Caller Daniel]

No, but hear me out though too. But Jamie Gillian, James Hudson, Graham Gano and Russell Wilson are $25 million on the cap this year. Guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Caller Daniel]

I mean, that's a big number. That's. Joe Shane can wake out too. But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait a minute. But like, those are.

[Caller Daniel]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't.

[Caller Daniel]

Roster mismanagement.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the roster.

[Don Allen]

But then.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Then the roster. The guys. Tell me if I'm wrong. The roster was good enough to be six and four. Yes or no?

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. Roster management. It has taken it. It has taken a minute to go from someone else's roster to building forward on a roster. Have they hit another draft pick? No. Drafts are not as easy as it looks. But if you have one good draft year, it sets you on course. That's where they are right now. An injury to neighbors has hurt them. No question. They're obviously losing. Scatterbo hurt them. That's a hell of a find. The quarterback. It's a hell of a find. Right. Like they have pieces going forward. The Burns signing was a smart signing. Like there are things there. But the decisions of how to use players. That's coaching.

[Don Hahn]

But you have to ask yourself the. I know. The caller's still there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I let him go.

[Don Hahn]

But this is what I would ask.

[Peter Rosenberg]

First of all, you can't get rid of an owner. So it's. You're right.

[Don Hahn]

But. But I'll ask him the same question I asked you guys is forget about whether Shane deserves be here or not based on his drafts and his personnel decisions. Would. Wouldn't you rather him pick the next head coach than John picking the next head coach and general manager. I would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Great question.

[Don Hahn]

So that. That's where I look at it, is give me a football guy making one decision than John Mara who has not made any good decisions since he took over sole ownership of the team. Because Tish doesn't make football decisions. So he's the guy when he took over for his father Wellington, that has not made one good one, and now he's got to make two of them. And now what I keep thinking about Belichick is if you bring in Belichick, doesn't that kind of maybe shoulder off John? It's somebody that the Mara is going to respect. The Belichick can kind of go over his head maybe on certain things, not feel pressured by the owner when he says, I want this to happen. Or how about this guy? Like, it puts an alpha male in the room. Right? Because how much of an alpha male can Shane be? He already challenged Mara on the Saquon and lost. Right. And that's the guy making the decision on whether you come back. So he's gonna. Definitely. Wouldn't Belichick be a guy that can be making some decisions that is gonna maybe ignore John or. Or just listen to John but not feel intimidated by him?

[Don Allen]

I mean, I could be. I just. I just feel like the Belichick that we've seen recently, it would be such a weird. You could see how this could blow up in your face so badly if you're the Giants in a. In a situation when you desperately need to write the course, you decided to go to a guy who at this point could not get a job in the league and has looked like an absolute fool at North Carolina. It's. I think it's a higher risk thing than you're implying.

[Don Hahn]

Well, to defend him a bit, you know, it's, you know, going to college and taking over that program is very difficult to do, and it's only year one, and as far as nobody else wanting him in the NFL, I think the reason for that is they felt that he was like power hungry and that he was going to take over whoever the general manager was and would be too much of an alpha male, and they didn't want him to take over everything. But with the Giants having a general manager in place, him wanting the job, his failings at the end of his New England tenure and in North Carolina might humble him to the point where he won't be a guy that's going to try to completely take over. I think that's what they were really afraid of. He's going to come in here and want to buy the groceries, make all the decisions, and I just think it fits. And because he desperately wants a job and he wants this job at least makes it worth the conversation. Like I said, I'm not even completely on board. No, listen, it's not like you're Naming people that blow me away anyway and everybody's going to be a risk.

[Don Allen]

It's a fun conversation. I think it is a zero percent chance.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You on 00?

[Don Allen]

Yeah. They'd sooner bring Tom Coughlin back and think, let's have Coughlin. Right the ship.

[Don Hahn]

He can just.

[Don Allen]

He knows things. He'll put him in there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Part in age of they probably. It can't be too much.

[Don Allen]

Well, I was trying to think about that. They're almost the same older. Yeah, I think Coughlin's probably two, three years older.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. But no, not too much.

[Don Hahn]

But the way it went down with John, I don't think he'd want to come back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no, no, we.

[Don Allen]

Yeah, no, I think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think we know that one.

[Don Allen]

Depends how bored. Thomas.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Allen]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it is done. Brian Dable out. Joe Shane stays for now. Mike Kafka is the interim coach and the Giants move forward in now wondering who will be their next head coach. We have. We have some great people to talk to. Coming at four o' clock or. You don't want to miss it. If you're a Giants fan. You talking about Carl Banks. You're talking about Chris Canty. These guys have won Super Bowls with the Giants. Blood in the ground with the Giants. And both of them have a lot to say about the proceedings today and where to go from here. So we'll get to them. But we still have more calls to get to with you. So let's continue to talk with you on this. Brian in Manhattan, you are up next, Brian.

[Caller Daniel]

Hey, guys.

[Caller Brian]

Day ball had to go. Giant season ticket holder. My grandparents had the tickets, my mom had the tickets. Me, my brother have them now. He in as much as his in game decisions were crazy and allowing Dart to run like, I don't know, like he was clearly going to get injured.

[Caller Falvio]

Right.

[Caller Brian]

I mean, just reckless. I just thought his actions on the sideline were just never that of a leader.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I agree.

[Caller Brian]

Whether it was throwing the headset or the fake soldier stipulations or the weird grabbing of darts, I think in his first or second game, it just always felt like he wasn't the guy for the job. Now obviously you fire him, you gotta replace him. I think there's a lot of good candidates and a lot. I know a lot of this is on paper, but let me throw one name out for you. I'm Listening Spagnolo, you know, he would be a leader. He would help with the defense. You'd obviously keep Kafka for offense or higher, an offensive mind. The other is Kippen.

[Caller Daniel]

I mean one is sort of old.

[Caller Brian]

Guard, one with a new guard. But I think there's a lot of young guys, Kubiak and, and Minter they were talking about last night.

[Caller Daniel]

Also interest me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Kubiak's going to be a name that everybody's going to be pursuing, obviously. Right? That is one.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Kafka. You have to think about it this way with Spagnola coming in and then leaving Kafka as the OC is that, you know, Mike's interviewed for some jobs already and he's had some, you know, he's had some pretty strong looks. Is he a guy that would be. Would accept. All right, I'll stay as an OC when he can have an opportunity. Maybe as a head coach or fancies himself as somebody that could be a head coach one day. Like that's, that's a, that's a tough question that you need answered. Maybe make him associate head coach, something like that to give him. Make him feel better.

[Caller Brian]

So maybe it's you keep Costco or you bring in a young really good mind. You make him like Spags is going to be around forever.

[Don Allen]

Spags is interesting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What do we think?

[Don Hahn]

Spags, Ryan around forever. He's 65.

[Don Allen]

Yeah. He's not a spring chicken, but like he was never able to do it as a head coach. We obviously know how valuable he is as a coordinator.

[Don Hahn]

One of the greats.

[Don Allen]

One of the all time greats. Blood in the ground, by the way. We got to stop now. It's setting. We either got to start drinking. No, because we've got to start drinking.

[Don Hahn]

But it's Alan's phrase. Why can't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did you guys do that with Sia? You weren't allowed to say see you in the previous.

[Don Hahn]

You know, other than how was the play Stop. You got Michael, had a bunch of them and they all lived right till the show died.

[Don Allen]

You know how I felt about up for grabs. No, but so Spag. But he does have the history with the Giants, of course. And he's. And he's great. But you know, he had a chance to do. It wasn't good, but it was a long time ago.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes it's. You learn from your mistakes and also you have the experience, I mean, wealth of experience that he's had in Kansas City.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. I'm not going to get crazy about his, his Interim coaching job with the Giants. That was during the whole fiasco with the Eli and all that or after that. But he's. He's 11 and 41 as a head coach going back to his age.

[Don Allen]

That's not good.

[Don Hahn]

So any 65. And again, not that that's any problem, but, you know, it's. I just wonder if right now he would have any appetite. He's got a chance. They don't put coordinators in the hall of Fame. But outside of Belichick, can you name a better defensive coordinator than Steve Spagnolo? I mean, he's up there. He's up there in that conversation. He's. He's with a team that perennially goes to the Super Bowl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ryan will put himself in there.

[Don Hahn]

Does.

[Don Allen]

I'll just say Buddy Ryan. But yeah, listen, Buddy should have been.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The first name that come to mind. Right.

[Don Hahn]

Probably count on one hand the great defensive coordinators and spags would definitely be one of the five. Does he want to in his mid-60s now come back to the Giants, be a head coach where, you know, it's good. It's not going to rent. I don't think immediately. I don't, I don't. I don't think I'm not that it matters as much anymore. But you want to find somebody that is going to grow the young quarterback, help this offense out. And I think that you got to lean towards, I think, an offensive guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, first and foremost, I'll leave it here. We got. We'll continue with the calls. By the way, we do have two great guests coming up to talk more about this, but I'm just going to say, I think sometimes we do fall too much into offensive genius. Defensive genius instead of, you know what I need at the very, at the very top at the head coach, I just need a leader of men. I need somebody that I know is in control and everybody looks to the front of the room and says that guy's in control. That's what you're looking for with the Giants right now.

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Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good here.

[Podcast Announcer]

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