Hour 1: The Knicks Plan

Summary

Episode Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg - Hour 1: The Knicks Plan

Release Date: June 11, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In the inaugural episode of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg," hosts Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve deep into the turbulent coaching landscape of the New York Knicks. Balancing insights from sports and cultural perspectives, the trio navigates through recent controversies, strategic decisions, and the broader implications for the Knicks' future.

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The Knicks' Coaching Conundrum

Firing of Tom Thibodeau

The episode kicks off with Don Hahn (00:00) sharing a personal anecdote, seamlessly transitioning into the central topic: the Knicks' unexpected decision to part ways with head coach Tom Thibodeau ("Tibbs"). Alan Hahn (08:28) reflects on the abruptness of the firing, labeling it "a nightmare scenario" for dedicated Knicks fans (09:26).

Key Quote:

"If you're a Knicks fan, that is a nightmare scenario that you absolutely fear." — Alan Hahn [09:26]

Peter Rosenberg (09:07) expresses his concerns over the lack of a solid plan post-Thibbs, questioning the franchise's strategy and hinting at deeper issues within the organization.

Analyzing the Decision

Don Hahn (02:07) recounts past decisions, such as Michael's infamous Ranger gear incident, to highlight the franchise's history of contentious choices. The hosts debate whether the recent firing was a result of genuine strategic planning or a reactionary move driven by player dissatisfaction.

Key Quote:

"But just because you have a plan doesn't make it a good plan. And if it's a bad plan, then it's almost like not really having a plan." — Don Hahn [22:32]

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Potential Candidates for the Head Coach Position

Jason Kidd's Involvement

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Jason Kidd's potential role in the Knicks' coaching future. Alan Hahn advocates for Kidd, emphasizing his rapport with star players like LeBron James and Kyrie Irving (30:37).

Key Quote:

"You don't think it's that he's been at every freaking game... LeBron James, like, reveres him." — Alan Hahn [30:37]

However, skepticism remains as Peter Rosenberg (35:51) and callers express doubts about Kidd's genuine interest in the Knicks, suggesting it might be a leverage tactic to secure a better contract from the Dallas Mavericks.

Key Quote:

"Jason Kidd is using the entrance that the Knicks have in him to get more money from the Dallas Mavericks. He has no interest in coming to the Knicks first and foremost." — Listener Louis [36:09]

Other Coaching Prospects

Alan Hahn and Don Hahn mention other potential candidates, including Michael Malone and Mike Brown, but consensus leans heavily towards Kidd as the most respected and fitting choice for the Knicks' aspirations.

Key Quote:

"There is no coach out there with a ring on his finger that's more suited for this job." — Alan Hahn [26:12]

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Debating the Franchise's Strategy

The hosts engage in a robust debate over whether the Knicks' strategy in handling the coaching change is methodical or haphazard. Alan Hahn defends the process, explaining the complexities of securing a top-tier coach, especially when preferred candidates are under contract.

Key Quote:

"We have to fill afternoon drive... I think you're a perfect guy for us." — Alan Hahn [19:46]

Conversely, Peter Rosenberg criticizes the optics of firing a successful coach mid-season, questioning the franchise's long-term vision and commitment.

Key Quote:

"Being this good a team and getting rid of your coach... it just looks a little funny." — Peter Rosenberg [33:03]

Don Hahn (34:53) introduces a thought-provoking question to listeners, challenging them to consider what they would do if key players don't want to play under a particular coach, highlighting the balance between player influence and organizational control.

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Listener Call-Ins: Diverse Perspectives

The episode features multiple listener interactions, adding depth to the discussion:

1. Louis from the Bronx (35:51) asserts that Jason Kidd is leveraging his interest in the Knicks to extract financial gains from Dallas, casting doubt on his genuine intent.

2. Joseph from Staten Island (40:14) voices frustration over the Knicks' coaching search process, labeling it "embarrassing" and questioning the franchise's decision-making efficacy.

3. Marvin and Edison join later, with Marvin critiquing Alan Hahn for perceived lack of objectivity regarding the coaching change, while Edison emphasizes the collective responsibility behind the decision.

Key Call-In Quote:

"How is the Knicks franchise allowing players on a team that just got there to say we don't like this coach... That's just strange to me." — Listener Louis [37:20]

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Conclusion: The Road Ahead for the Knicks

As the episode wraps up, the hosts synthesize their discussions, weighing the potential outcomes of the Knicks' coaching search. Don Hahn (22:29) reiterates that while having a plan is essential, the quality of that plan is paramount. The uncertainty surrounding Jason Kidd's role remains a focal point, with the trio urging fans to stay tuned as the situation evolves.

Final Key Quote:

"If the plan was we're moving on from him because it's time, then that does make sense. But from an optic standpoint, you're coming off this high as a fan base, you're feeling we're right there." — Peter Rosenberg [33:03]

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Additional Segment: Tribute to Brian Wilson and Sly Stone

Towards the end, the hosts briefly honor the late Brian Wilson and Sly Stone, celebrating their profound impact on American music and culture. This segment underscores the podcast's commitment to intertwining sports discussions with broader cultural reflections.

Key Quote:

"Two of the most iconic American musicians of the last hundred years and two great Californians... Culture changing." — Peter Rosenberg [21:43]

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Closing Remarks

"Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" successfully sets the tone for future episodes by tackling a pressing sports controversy with both passion and analytical depth. The blend of expert insight, listener engagement, and cultural commentary promises an engaging journey for both seasoned fans and newcomers alike.

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps:

• "If you're a Knicks fan, that is a nightmare scenario that you absolutely fear." — Alan Hahn [09:26]

• "But just because you have a plan doesn't make it a good plan." — Don Hahn [22:32]

• "You don't think it's that he's been at every freaking game... LeBron James, like, reveres him." — Alan Hahn [30:37]

• "Jason Kidd is using the entrance that the Knicks have in him to get more money from the Dallas Mavericks." — Listener Louis [36:09]

• "Being this good a team and getting rid of your coach... it just looks a little funny." — Peter Rosenberg [33:03]

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and podcast information. For the complete experience and nuanced discussions, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

Don, I was fighting with obesity. I wore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You were losing. Don.

[Alan Hahn]

Don. Peter. Thank you, Alan. I hope you make the team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Rosenberg, Richard, have you ever heard of brazzers?

[Don Hahn]

No. This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Alan Hahn]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg on 880 ESPN and the ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

App 301 in the big city. Don Han and Rosenberg hanging out with you until 6:30. And then it's Mets Nationals as the Mets look to stay hot. Yankees had a big win against the Royals. It was nice to see Michael. We don't get to see Michael all that often. He's going into the Lions den tomorrow. You never see him heading into Citi Field.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know if it's going to be a Lions.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, it's going to be something.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You think? I think there'll be people out. I think people going.

[Alan Hahn]

It's an afternoon game we love.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, they'll be there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know.

[Alan Hahn]

If this was like, you know, a drunken night game. Yeah. If this was like a 710 vehicle, you were gonna get like a little more verratic draft. I think you're gonna get like, we're almost done with school here. Right. You're probably gonna get some families. You're gonna get some of that stuff. I bet you he signs more autographs than he does. Well, than he does deal with, you know, debauchery.

[Don Hahn]

I'll tell a quick story. And what we're talking about is tomorrow's the big Rick and Dave excursion from Publicans in Manhasset. They're gonna take the train over to Citi Field, Mets Nationals, they're gonna get there at 11:30 and Michael will be there for the tailgate. And he's going to stay for the game. So a lot of Met fans are really upset with Michael. So you think it's going to be a Lions temp? Just a quick story if you remember going way back, Michael lost the bet for the football picks and had to wear full Ranger gear to the Garden. Remember that for a Ranger Panther game. And I'm just talking not just the jersey because a lot of people misunderstood. Like, Dave Maloney was red hot at Michael for a while. Thinking, what, you're losing a bet because you're wearing a Ranger jersey? I kill to be in that jersey. I said, no, no, it's not just the jersey. It's the helmet, it's the pants, it's the get up. It's everything. A stick. He just. He looked like a tool walking around Madison Square Garden dressed in like Full Rangers regalia.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And I was wondering, because Michael's not the biggest hockey fan, and a lot of times he was very disrespectful to the sport because it wasn't his thing. So I was wondering what was going to happen when he walks in there. Is he going to get killed? Are fans going to rip into him? I didn't worry about his safety because he was in the bowels of the garden. Nothing was going to happen to him. But I thought, the reception's bad, right? Everybody autographs, pictures. Not zero negativity, zero. So maybe you're right. Maybe he'll walk in there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think he'll be married to.

[Don Hahn]

You who hate him on social media are going to be a hominin. Hominin, 100% maybe.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what I mean? Keep on. Maybe it'll become like one of those videos, you know, those, like, videos of, like, different political pundits who, like, show up at college campuses and argue with students and they set up a microphone and. And they have, like, a debate. Maybe it'll turn into, like, a debate.

[Alan Hahn]

Like a good, respectful.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, that's. I don't want to program. Is this. This is after their show?

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it's not on air?

[Don Hahn]

No, no, but everything's on air.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hold on.

[Don Hahn]

Let's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's.

[Don Hahn]

In this day and age, everything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's all put our hands in, guys. One, two, three. Let's be good. Because what you should do is set up a mic and speakers and allow people to come debate him and film it.

[Don Hahn]

That would be.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want to just do that for extra content.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I mean. That's what I mean.

[Alan Hahn]

A live world.

[Don Hahn]

Can you, without the Mets permission, set up a broadcast in their parking lot?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not a broadcast.

[Alan Hahn]

Not a live broadcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not a lot of broadcast. No, Just a microphone and a speaker. And film it.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I'm sure. I'm sure Jake's gonna be out there. Videotape and everything.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's have it out.

[Don Hahn]

And believe me, if we don't do it, there'll be other people out there. There will be footage of whatever happens tomorrow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you. But you. I hate to be this guy. You need a speaker, though. You won't be able to hear it.

[Alan Hahn]

What you're talking about is the equivalent of sports talk radio, rap battle, basically, kind of what you're looking for, right? You have to have what, like, let's give me three. Three common debates. So it's not something random.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

And you say these are three topics. If Like, Michael will give his takes, and then those who disagree step up and tell him why he's wrong.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But here's the problem. They're ultimately arguing. What this stemmed from was kind of an inarguable thing, which is they were saying Michael was basically making up a point about. About Soto being unhappy. Two things. One, he wasn't making it up, obviously, and they won't believe him. Two, moot point. Soto's back. But you know what I'm saying, He can't really prove the argument. They just were being fanboys who were like, you're the Yankee guy.

[Don Hahn]

And then he wrote them calling them fleas and calling them moths. And then I defended him last Friday, saying he wasn't calling met bands fleas and moths. He was calling the people going after him specific meth. But then people started jumping me. People started because I'm supporting Michael. People are in a way about this. So it should be interesting. Tomorrow we'll get into the mats. Who I thought really had a nice win. They didn't get the starting pitching, but they found a way to win against.

[Alan Hahn]

Comeback is great. Alonzo once again gives you a big, big moment.

[Don Hahn]

Judge hit a 500 foot bomb that nobody cares about because didn't happen in October, as we find out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It doesn't matter.

[Don Hahn]

Didn't care about Alan. Wanted it back because he's like, I want that in October. It happened.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What are you doing?

[Don Hahn]

Royals in June. Might as well not even save that.

[Alan Hahn]

Why can't you leave that? Leave that. Just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We don't need it, right?

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want that. Then great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Good for you. You had another one.

[Alan Hahn]

Can we just. You know what? We should load manage him now. He's had a good year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's time.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's shut him down until October.

[Don Hahn]

I'm on ice.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what I want to do now. Shut him down. Because I don't want all the hits and all the home runs to get out of him now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, at some point, I.

[Alan Hahn]

Think he's start load manager.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't. I don't think we need to yet. We have a long summer and we should save this. Let's just be honest. But if this thing keeps going the way that he is.

[Alan Hahn]

What thing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

This Aaron Judge thing?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pacing. Pacing for over 50. Pacing for over 50. And if, like we get to the break 54 and he's flirting at 400.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, my Lord.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because he's now what, low 390s.

[Don Hahn]

390. 590.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no. 6. His.

[Peter Rosenberg]

His nose batting.

[Alan Hahn]

Batting average, like. 398.

[Don Hahn]

390. I got a lot. I thought it was. 396.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, standby in the mid-390s.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If we. If we get to July, guys, and he's in the mid-390s and pacing for 50 home runs, we are talking about the greatest season of the modern era. That's what we'd be talking about, right? Am I wrong?

[Don Hahn]

Absolutely.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it'll be. It'll be something we've literally never seen before.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The last time people were doing things like this, they were smoking cigarettes and they had prostitutes in the. In the dugout. Hot dogs were being consumed as the game was being played.

[Alan Hahn]

This is the on deck circle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The on deck circle. Don was a hot dog stand.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. And a beer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And a beer. And guess what? When the game finished, they went to their other job and they had to drive a truck home. Like, this was a different thing. People in this era don't do this. You can't bat.400 and hit 50 home runs.

[Don Hahn]

No, it's pretty incredible.

[Alan Hahn]

Showed up late because you had to fix some pipes.

[Don Hahn]

Well, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You were doing job with a plumber.

[Alan Hahn]

In the morning sink. You know, you had to clean out a clog and.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Not to start trouble, but I'm in that mood today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no.

[Don Hahn]

All right, so you see that Judge home run, right? You see it?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Almost 500ft.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Over the Royals hall of Fame. And. And you're telling me that Mickey Mantle hit one, like, a hundred feet farther? No, it can't be right. You look at Judge, you look at the human being, you look at the velocity of the pitch. You see how far it goes, and.

[Alan Hahn]

Mantis. 511, 170, whatever. What was Mantle's weight? I know he was, like, five.

[Don Hahn]

No, I'm sure he was strong as a bull. I'm just saying, like, it. I know.

[Alan Hahn]

We all know.

[Don Hahn]

I think that if Judge hit a ball as far as he hit against Kansas City at, like, Yankee Stadium in 1952, people would have soiled themselves and thought. And thought he's an alien, and the government would have arrested him, and they would have put him in, like, in New Mexico as an. As an alien.

[Alan Hahn]

But you know what, though? That home run wasn't even the longest home run hitting that stadium. He was short of it by, like, a foot or two feet. Do you know who hit the longest home run?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

Good friend. Good friend. Everybody loved him. Luke voight. Luke Voight, 2019.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do I remember Luke Voight? You know how Could I forget a jersey that tight?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. We speculated that it wasn't so much muscle. It was that he was getting like baby Gap jerseys that he was putting on.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Like, he. He definitely was wearing, like.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, it was.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you know what? You could tell the sleeves were too short.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

It was like, that's when, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was so short.

[Alan Hahn]

He had that like moose scouring type sleeves.

[Don Hahn]

The COVID season where he led the league with 20 home runs, but you're still a leader in home runs, so we got a lot to get to with that. But the jumping off point, and it's been the jumping off point a lot on this show is like, what's the latest with the Knick head coaching?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, jumping off might be the wrong.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, you're jumping off something.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You getting close to. You don't want to use that.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't think right now for Nick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How about falling off?

[Don Hahn]

No, we don't, you know, the cliff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That we want to follow.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's not do the next coaching situation. It's a very delicate.

[Don Hahn]

No, this is situation. I think this is actually perfect because where I'm sitting in the middle of two polar opposite opinions.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are they polar opposite?

[Don Hahn]

I'm just saying I think they are closer to me than you, judging by our text thread of what I think Peter should run point on his opinion and then you should counter with yours. I love it because I'm somewhere in between. But Peter, right now, give me your thoughts on the Knicks situation right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

From what, you know, Knicks fans, you know, I'm with you. I've, I've joined you in a way. I love you. I support the Knicks fans. I enjoy the New York Knicks thoroughly. I am very concerned based on the information that we have gotten about the interest or lack thereof from potentially three candidates that the Knicks were interested in that there was no plan whatsoever when Tibbs was fired. And my bigger concern is that what has happened is whatever distracted James Dolan earlier, whether it was the sphere, as some people speculate, whether he was really just on his best behavior and didn't want a medal, whatever it was, guys, I am worried. He saw the party rocking at msg, he saw the how close this team could get, and he has decided, I can't stay away anymore, Don. I want to be a part of this thing and changes need to be made. And to me, if you're a Knicks fan, that is a nightmare scenario that you absolutely fear. Is all of a sudden the structure that we thought we'd put in place with Leon Rose and World Wide west having complete autonomy to do what they want to do. If now they have an increasingly interested James Dolan who may have applied any pressure whatsoever to making this decision. That is really worrisome because, guys, how do you let go of a head coach, regardless of whether or not he came up short? How do you let go of a head coach who had you two games from the NBA Finals if, Allen, you didn't have a solid plan? I just don't understand. And it seems to me, and you can tell me if you think I'm wrong, it seems to me that the quote unquote plan was really more a hope because I'm not seeing it come together.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you're suggesting. Let's see if I'm on. I'm on point. When you brought up the sphere and the distraction, all this stuff. This is early 90s. George Steinbrenner stayed away, allowed the thing to grow, and then once the success came, he started coming in fat, handing everything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pretty much, yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Don, remind me again, how'd that work out?

[Don Hahn]

Well, not well.

[Alan Hahn]

What do you mean?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, you mean like him.

[Alan Hahn]

Sorry. Him being away.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, him being away.

[Alan Hahn]

Coming back when the. When. When the team came back.

[Don Hahn]

But he didn't come back the same person.

[Alan Hahn]

But. But how'd it work out? It worked out great, really well, didn't it?

[Don Hahn]

Because he came back a different person, allowing, you know, Watson and then eventually Cashman to do their jobs. That's not what Steinman.

[Alan Hahn]

But still was very much hovering.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, no, he was there. There were times he's going to be involved.

[Alan Hahn]

There were times when it's like, you know, like the Buck Showalter firing and some other moves that were made that he was. But he was.

[Don Hahn]

That's the George that all the Yankee.

[Alan Hahn]

Fans fell in love with still. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Was the. And I try to tell him that that was not the George that almost, you know, wrecked it.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, no. The late 80s. George was a completely different guy now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you're not fighting back against. So you're saying it may not work out bad.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm not. I'm. I'm asking if that's what you're suggesting. Because what I'm saying is if that's what you're foreseeing now, that I agree with. Worked out pretty well. So if you're a Knicks fan, and that's. That's the trajectory, I'll take it. But I'm going to tell you this. You don't think it's that he's been at every freaking game. This is not like a guy that's been out in LA watching on tv the absentee owner, He's. He's been at every game, okay? So that's not true. He has entrusted everything in Leon Rose. He tried to entrust everything in Phil Jackson and even stayed out of it as long as he possibly could until people were begging him, you gotta get rid of this guy. He's sabotaging the franchise. Okay? So a lot of that I feel like, and I know it's the easy place to go, because history tells you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That not just with him, I can't.

[Alan Hahn]

Push back because history has shown that that has been a thing and has been a problem. Something he has vowed to stop doing. I've already told you that this was not something done by himself. This was not something done impulsively. This has been a thing that has been sort of whispered in his ear. Not for a year, for many, in fact. I'll take you back. So the first year, they make the playoffs. Second year, they don't remember 37 wins, they were not that good. They had a lot of injuries. Evan Fournier, they made the big signing of Fournier and somebody else. It was not a good signing. Didn't work. They don't make the playoffs the next year, they start the season off, they're a mess. They had lost, I think one or two, two in a row or somewhere. And there was a Sunday game, I forget I might have been against the Cavs. And I remember talking to some people in the building that said, they lose this game, tips probably going to get fired. That was a real thing. And I remember I was saying it on the air like, that's how close it came. Then Tibbs decided, I'm benching for you. I don't care what we paid him. I don't care. He doesn't fit. I'm benching him. He played his guys, played it way he wanted, and they started to win. And they kept winning. They went all the way back to the playoffs. And then from then, it kind of silenced things. And then from there, the Brunson thing became a real thing. And then they, you know, they want a playoff series the next year. And then obviously what happened last year and then this year, so all of it kind of had to be silenced because the success was following. Okay. Now this year, the noise started to pick up again because the same issues that you had to stay quiet about because of the winning started to become, okay, it's happening again. And more and more players were not happy about some of the stuff. The bench guys, and one in one starter in particular, not thrilled. And so when you start to now see that, and then the voice that was whispering in the ear starts whispering again. So this has been building. Understand that it's not a impulsive, like, oh, we lost the Pacers, he's gone. No, this has. This was something three years ago that was silenced and then came back because the voice doesn't want to stop.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Could it still have, though, even though that's true, and I believe you on that, is it possible, though, that in the end it still happened in a somewhat impulsive way? Here's why they have to rush it. Do they? If they didn't have a plan in place, they had to do it before the Finals.

[Alan Hahn]

Now I'll deal with the plan. Who is to say that the plan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was to get a head coach to po.

[Alan Hahn]

No, to poach someone from another team and hire him during the NBA Finals? I would say it's the plan, not the plan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But they're doing. They're attempting it.

[Alan Hahn]

No. Were they trying to get permission to speak officially with a coach who's under contract? That's what they were doing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct.

[Alan Hahn]

Because what you do when you are looking for a coach is you identify, as I said, who are the best coaches that you think that you think would fit what you're doing? Who are the guys that you look at and think, if I can get that guy, I want them. Right. And when you're the Knicks, you have the financial ability to go out and get what you want. So what do you do? I identify people that I want to talk to. Okay, well, guys that are not under contract right now, you don't have to ask permission. You just eventually bring them in an interview, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

You already contact, reach out, whatever it is. But you know, okay, Michael Malone, Mike Brown, we want to bring those guys. We want to talk to them right now. The other guys, you have to ask permission. So the rumor mill is going to have those names. As I told you, there's. There's coaches that they like, and some of them are working for other teams. So part of the process of collecting our candidates is finding out who I can talk to. So you now do that, and then you're told, no, no, no. Now, on some occasions, the nos are, okay, straight up, no. Because Minnesota is. Well, what are they going to do at Finch? The general manager's contract is up. They have new ownership. He's a good coach. He's had success there. Towns knows him. Let's see what he's about. Let's see if he's even available. And back channels tell you he'd love to coach in New York. Right? Imo. Doka another one underpaid for what he. For his abilities, for the reasons that his own.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. When they got. He was not appealing to many looking.

[Alan Hahn]

For an extension wants to get paid. And you're looking at him, identifying him as a guy that would also like to coach in New York. And you identify him as the type of coach you'd love to have. You need to have for a team like this. Right. In New York. And so you try that. They say no. Okay, fine, kid. The relationship is obvious. Right? And there's also been whispers, well before all this, that he's not really thrilled about the direction of the franchise under new ownership since Mark Cuban is no longer in charge. And so it's the same thing. Okay, well, he just signed an extension, but there are some personal relationships here. Let's see if we can bring him in because we'd love to have a guy like him. He is a highly respected.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're not telling me a plan, though.

[Alan Hahn]

I am telling you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're not. It's called not. No, it's called we want to coach. No, we can't find one that's. This is not a plan.

[Alan Hahn]

Why are you not listening?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm listening. It's not your plan.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm giving you the plan is we.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Want to find a coach and we can't find one. Peter, what's the plan?

[Don Hahn]

Is it Udoka?

[Alan Hahn]

If you zip it and I'll tell you because I've been trying to.

[Don Hahn]

There's no plan.

[Alan Hahn]

I just told you. You are gathering candidates that you will bring in to talk to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Gathering Candid was the plan. Make a list to let go of a guy who's got you to the playoff four out of five years and had you the best team you've been in a quarter century, the best plan is let's line up a bunch of people in chat.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. All right. First and foremost, we are on record of saying I would not have done this. I would not have fired the coach. So let's understand that part of it. But you acting like that. This is like an impulsive. And I don't know if you're going to. Not impulsive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, maybe not impulsive.

[Don Hahn]

Well, then what.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I'm not feeling a plan.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll try to put it at your level.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You are on my level. What are you gonna do use one syllable words, Alan.

[Alan Hahn]

I will try.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're worse than Dave Rothenberg. That was more insulting.

[Alan Hahn]

Speak.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, go ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

1.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Make it make sense. Make it make words. Go ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. You are at this station.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

You have a contract.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

I am another station.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

I need to fill afternoon drive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

I think you're a perfect guy for us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sounds great. How much? Let's talk.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I'm saying. But I can't talk to you. You're on the contract.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh.

[Alan Hahn]

But I find out you'd be interested, so I could.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This actually sounds very familiar to my recent life.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. I come to the station and I ask, you know, we have to fill this spot. I got some hosts that I like that I can just bring in if I want. But while I'm doing this, I want to see if. Is Peter Rosenberg even available? Because he'd be a guy I'd also want to talk to about this job I'd love to have. Station says no. All right, well, he's off the list. I got these other guys now I could talk to, but you were somebody that I respected enough to say if I can get the best that fit my team to win. Now you're one of those guys. But that's the approach right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the way that they're doing it, that they already let go of their afternoon host and they're currently just playing music in the afternoons and they got nothing to do.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, all right, again, they could have done this. Are there games playing right now? Do they. Do they need a coach right now? Are there. Is there a game tonight that I don't know about?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I don't know, but they rushed to do it and make noise immediately the season ended.

[Alan Hahn]

They made a decision.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's it, Don. Go ahead. I can, I can.

[Alan Hahn]

I think you. You are, you are. First of all, you are fishing for something rather than listening to the logic of how you actually go about the process.

[Don Hahn]

I have an opinion on this because both of you are making fabulous points. But we're up against it, so it'll be a tease. How about that?

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Now.

[Alan Hahn]

Great.

[Don Hahn]

Brian Wilson left us earlier today at the age of 82. We'll talk about that a little bit later on.

[Alan Hahn]

We have to. We talk about it now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

List.

[Don Hahn]

We got a list coming.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is it a Prine Wilson list?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, you want to get into Brian Wilson, Sly Stone in the same week. We didn't spend a lot of time on Sly Stone.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, we did. Not enough.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's, that's Don. You're talking about two of the most iconic American musicians of the last hundred years and, and two great Californians.

[Alan Hahn]

Really impactful music, all of it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Culture changing.

[Don Hahn]

Both 82, which is crazy. But we'll have the list coming up at 4:30 and we'll dive into that. I just wanted to retort what you guys were saying. And I, I think you're both right in the sense of Alan's right because there is a plan. But Peter's right that it's not a very good plan because you just fired a very good coach.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, first of all, did I say that it's a good plan?

[Don Hahn]

No, I'm just saying.

[Alan Hahn]

I was just trying to say there is.

[Don Hahn]

But it's a plan. But just because you have a plan doesn't make it a good plan. And if it's a bad plan, then it's almost like not really having a plan. You let a great coach go, I'm willing to say he's a great coach. Three consecutive 50 win seasons, you're within two wins of going to the NBA Finals. He's a good coach and you let him go because you think he could do better. And right now you're striking out. Now I'm going to lean towards Alan to kind of wait to see how things are. Peter. Because for all we know, Jason Kidd will crack loose from Dallas and they'll have their guy. You know, maybe Dallas is playing games. Maybe they know a little bit more than we do and that Jason Kidd's the guy. And the reason all these other candidates are being thrown out there is to put more pressure on Jason Kidd to go to Dallas and say, listen, get me out of my contract. I want to go to the Knicks. They're going to hire another coach. And why would Dallas fight for a guy that doesn't want to be your head coach? So if Jason Kidd ends up the coach, Peter, you can't really kill the Knicks. Leon Rose and James Dolan for the plan because I think they got their guy. But if they don't get kid and they have to pivot to something else, then I'd have to question the plan, Allen. Because you let a very good coach go and you might have to now have a coach be someone that maybe you don't really feel is as good as the coach that you had. And also Now I begin to question, was it about we can do better or was it about, no matter what we do, he can't be our coach. My players don't want to play for him, so it really doesn't matter how we replace him. He's got to go. That's what I'm starting to think. I think we've doctored this whole thing up, and, oh, we believe Thibodeau is a good coach, but we don't think we can go any farther with him. So let's get somebody that's better. I don't think that's the case. I think it's the case of it became knowledgeable to Jim Dolan that there were players on this team that did not want Tibbs to be their coach, so he was going to get fired no matter what. I'm leaning towards that being the case because it doesn't look like, oh, we got our. Why would they? We love our coach, but we think we could do better and then not definitely have the next coach available. It seems to me like the firing was just about, hey, it doesn't matter who we bring in, as long as it's not him, because these guys don't want to play for him anymore.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. I want everybody to understand that when we were in this studio, when that news broke that Tibbs was being fired, and I said that caught me off guard. And I said, I was clearly wrong about this because this is not something I would have done for all the reasons you just said. Right. So I want to be clear that this is not in any way trying to defend that decision. And that move, I don't think it was the right move. So clearly I stated that, and that's the platform I'm on. What I'm trying to do with Peter is explain why the process is going the way it's going to and why it looks like, oh, this is like, strike three. Now you're down to the fourth guy you want. It's the idea of who would you want as a coach? And let's talk to all these guys. It. You're right. It came down to anyone but Tom.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

That's really what. So that's why. Fired without somebody in mind now, is it respect to Tibbs because you don't want him holding the job while you're searching for the next coach behind his back. Privately, you know, you can't. You don't treat the guy like that, so you move on from him first. But to not have a definitive, we know we can get this guy which is why I'm really shocked and why I also would say maybe. Maybe Odoka, maybe Finch.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

But I am not. I do not feel like it's the last we'll hear about Jason Kidd. No, it is not completely over on that front. In my opinion, it will be revisited again. But in the meantime, they had better have somebody else. And I'll give you a name right now that I first thought, probably won't get this job, probably won't even be considered. But now he better be Michael Malone.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Because there's no coach out there with a ring on his finger that's more suited for this job. And also, like, Tibbs has a history. He's from here. His father coached here. His coaching career started here. If anybody understands the market like, he. He gets it. He'll know what he's doing when he steps in. That's a guy that you have to talk to.

[Don Hahn]

Now, Peter, does that make more sense that the plan is what it is? Because it was never going to be Tibbs. Tibbs was gone. Like, I don't think Jim Dolan. This is where I disagree with Jim Dolan, just all of a sudden decided everybody's happy with this guy. I'm not.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think it's that easy.

[Don Hahn]

I believe. I believe it's that it got to a point where it wasn't, oh, we can do better. It was, these guys don't want to play for him. We got to get another coach. And if that's the case, well, then it really doesn't matter. Take your time. Look for whoever. Because it wasn't going to be Tibbs. Well, that makes the. The plan a little more palatable. Knowing that it wasn't, oh, I think we could do better. Here's our short list of guys that are clearly better. It's like, anybody's going to be better because my guys weren't going to play for him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If that is in fact the case, yes. I think that changes things a bit. If it's just we knew the guys were done playing for him, and maybe even we find out later, Rose begrudgingly.

[Don Hahn]

Agreed and was like, what else could he do? See, this also makes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The hard part is you don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

If he didn't agree, he'd walk out the door.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But no, but I think. Listen, wouldn't you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because I don't know. Because they're close and he doesn't want to see this thing not go through. He has the relationship with Brunson.

[Don Hahn]

I don't Know the narrative that I'm painting about the players not wanting to play for him? Checks all the boxes. Leon Rose had no intention of firing Tibbs. That's his guy. It was just a year ago. He went to Dolan and said, I give this guy a contract extension. So it makes zero sense for Leon Rose to say, I don't think he's the guy. What makes sense to Leon Rose is the guy. The players I went on and got don't want to play for this guy. I can't replace them all, so I got to replace the coach. I think that's where the rub came, where Leon Rose looking at it like, I don't want to fire this guy, but if all my key players don't want to play for him, what else am I supposed to do?

[Alan Hahn]

And bench guys won't come back. Right? Because they know they're not going to play. And then guys you might want to sign, who are bench guys, agents might be saying, he's not signing with you because Tibbs won't play him.

[Don Hahn]

Right. And Jim Dolan's going to be willing to eat the $30 million knowing, hey, I want to keep my key players.

[Alan Hahn]

Happy, and I want to win now.

[Don Hahn]

And I want to win now. And I don't want to all of a sudden have to redo the roster like I am with the Rangers or.

[Alan Hahn]

Fire the guy mid season, and now you're just scrambling midseason.

[Don Hahn]

So I think everybody just got caught. Now, if you want to blame anybody, like, why do the players not want to play for this guy? Like, what player on that team should have any kind of a say, where are all your rings? Like, where's the Magic Johnson here? You know, where's the guy that says, I'm not playing for him? If you want to say it's Jalen, but it's possible Jalen's not one of the guys.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't think he is.

[Don Hahn]

Right. So that's what I would say is like, who the hell are you to tell me what your coach is supposed to be? Go play. But unfortunately, in the 21st century, especially in the NBA, it's a lot easier to go find another coach than it is to go find five, six other players?

[Alan Hahn]

And word is they're going to want to play. Looking for a coach, like, similar to the move from Gerardi to Aaron Boone. You get what I mean there?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alan Hahn]

Looking for somebody a little more minimal to players, a little more. And Kidd is someone that is highly respected people. This is what I also don't Understand when people are like, since when did Jason Kidd become the greatest coach in the league? If you talk to some of the best players in the sport, LeBron James, ask him about Jason Kidd. Kid was an assistant with the Lakers for a couple of years. LeBron James, like, reveres him. You ask Giannis, you ask Kevin Durant, you ask Kyrie Irving, who couldn't play for anybody. Seriously, Kyrie Irving didn't want to play for anybody but Jason Kidd. He's had a couple of the best seasons of his career playing for Jason Kidd.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's it, you know, like that.

[Alan Hahn]

That's Luka Doncic, like you asked the players. And then Jalen Brunson played for him as well. They all have a high regard for him. That's why he is highly regarded by the Ms.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But from the standpoint of the fans, they figured we're moving on from our coach who had us two wins from the finals. Are you getting us a championship caliber coach?

[Alan Hahn]

Can I also ask this, though, Peter? All those who flooded our phone lines after Nick losses saying that Tibbs gotta go, and all you guys that had the torches and pitchforks out all season long, where are you now? Why all of a sudden are you guys quiet?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's how it works. They got what they wanted, so there's nothing to say.

[Alan Hahn]

Nothing to say.

[Don Hahn]

And then it reverses.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now the broker came.

[Alan Hahn]

Your franchise is now looking for another coach. And that coach is going to have a ton of pressure on him the minute he steps to the point.

[Don Hahn]

Well, now I think that the players also are going to have a ton of pressure because this is going to probably be the guy you want to be the head coach. And as far as the analogy you had from Girardi to Boone, it wasn't even Girardi to Boone. It was Girardi to someone like Boone. Like somebody that's, you know, a former player, a guy that's going to have our back. Because remember, I always felt Girardi got fired because of his criticism of Sanchez. Sanchez was the golden boy at the time and he would rip into him in post game press conferences. He was very critical. And I don't think, and I think the players looked at him go, I don't want to be that. I don't want a coach that's going to call me out. I want a coach that's going to support me. And what does Boone do? So if Boone ever got fired, but what Michael Lowe's always saying all those years, they'll bring in somebody just like Boone because That's the players. That's who the players want to play for. It's unfortunate. As an old school guy like myself, I don't like the players dictating policy. But put yourself in Dolan's shoes, put yourself in Rose's shoes. You've got a team that was good enough to be in the final four. You don't want that team to blow up because they don't want to play for the coach. So what are you supposed to do? It's a lot easier to find a coach than it is to go find a half a dozen players to help you win a championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just think optically, you know, being this good a team and getting rid of your coach, you don't think, let's cast a wide net and go. You think you have someone in mind and we know that person is so optically. It just looks a little funny. I'm not hearing that. I hear you both. The argument does make sense. I hear you. If the plan was we're moving on from him because it's time, then that does make sense. But from an optic standpoint, you were. You're coming off this high as a fan base, you're feeling we're right there.

[Alan Hahn]

That part I don't argue with you about at all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So now, and now you're like, hey, we're starting over. Oh, this one's not interested. You immediately feel. And then there's another piece here. Ultimately, we can have this argument all we want. The burden of proof is on you. Sadly, not on me, because history already says I'm right. So show me that I'm wrong. When we get to next April, we're gearing up for the playoffs. We're with the coach who just went 60 and 22. So until then, unfortunately, this is where we are.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's the problem is that right now, on the surface, it looks like no one wants this job when it's. Franchises are saying no. But it doesn't mean that one of these guys turns around to a franchise in another week or two or whatever and goes, yeah, I kind of want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To talk to him, but these are good situations. They were trying to appeal people from, by the way, Dallas, Minnesota, these are all good teams.

[Alan Hahn]

I had somebody in the NBA, a league official actually texted me and said the same thing. Like what? Like, why would they leave these teams? They're all successful teams. And I said, because they're all in the west and it's really hard to win in the West. And the allure should be a team that finished in the Final Four and feels like they're close and it's the east where Boston's not going to be Boston for at least another year. And you're right up there as one of the contenders to get to. It's an easier road to the NBA Finals, at least on paper.

[Don Hahn]

And again, we'll get to the calls in a second at 1-800-919-3776. But I will ask anybody out there that wants to kill Dolan or kill what's happening. If you ran the Knicks and your players went to you and said, I don't want to, I don't want to play for that guy, what would you do? What would you do? As much as you love the coach, as much as you hate the players dictating policy, what would you do? Would you release those six players, trade those six players, tell those players to shut up and play, or would you fire the coach?

[Alan Hahn]

That's a great question.

[Don Hahn]

As much as I'd love to say shut up and play, you know, good luck being successful as an executive treating players like that.

[Alan Hahn]

Professional Sports thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Fanatics Fest is making its return to New York City this summer at the Javits center on Friday to June 20 through Sunday, June 22, a three day celebration where sports culture and collecting converge, bringing fans closer to their favorite athletes and sports leagues than ever before with appearances from your favorite athletes, celebrities and entertainers, live podcasts and a full schedule of panels featuring the most recognizable names in sports. You can enter to win a four pack of tickets on the ESPN New York app. Find the contest tile to submit your entry. Adult and kids tickets are available now at Fanatics festival. All right, 1-800-919-3776. Let's hear from you. Sure. There's a lot of people that want to have weigh in on this, including Louis in the Bronx. You get us started off here on Don Hanna.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rosenberg. Here we go.

[D]

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

[Alan Hahn]

Afternoon.

[D]

I listen to you guys every day. I'm actually on my way to work right now and I listen all night to all the radio shows.

[Don Hahn]

Cool.

[D]

First things first. Jason Kidd is using the entrance that the Knicks have in him to get more money from the Dallas Mavericks. He has no interest of coming to the Knicks first and foremost.

[Alan Hahn]

How do you know that? Wait, wait, Louis, One at a time. Louis, how do you know that that, that's.

[D]

That was reported last night on ESPN by who? When they say who.

[Alan Hahn]

Who reported. He's trying to get more money. He just got an extension last May.

[D]

Right, Right. But that's, that's the whole thing. He's using the interest. Just like when they said the Nixon actually go after Jason Kidd first. They went after Chris Finch and the head coach of Houston.

[Alan Hahn]

That is right.

[D]

They didn't even actually talk to Dallas.

[Alan Hahn]

That's wrong.

[D]

That Sean's reported last night.

[Alan Hahn]

That's not accurate. It did not go. No, he was not the third one, though.

[D]

That's the report. They haven't even talked to the dead. They didn't even ask to talk to Jason Kidd yet.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, they didn't formally ask.

[D]

No, see, I see you trying to talk around it, but they.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm not talking around it.

[Don Hahn]

No, you are.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes, you are. You are trying to say using them for, for money. He just got an extension. Just got one.

[D]

And the fact that there's another team out there that wants him. You can get more money like that.

[Alan Hahn]

How? He's not. He doesn't want to leave. He already has the extension.

[D]

He doesn't want to be Dallas. I mean, you say he just had his finish. They gave Tom Thibodeau more money and they still fired him anyway. There's all types of things that could be done.

[Alan Hahn]

Confused.

[D]

You know, this is basketball. But the other thing I want to say. How is. How is the Knicks franchise allowing players on a team that just got there to say we don't like this coach when the hood of the team and the captain of the team love the head coach? That's just strange to me. I'm not even a Knicks fan, I'm a Bulls fan. But it's just strange.

[Don Hahn]

We don't know the players, Louis. It doesn't seem like it's Brunson, but if a lot of players, and maybe Brunson didn't stand, why can't Brunson stand up for his guy? But what would you do? Louis, I asked the question before the break. What would you do if there are players, significant players on the team that said I don't want to coach, I.

[D]

Would use those guys as bargaining chips and stick with the guys that want to play with that player, want to play for my franchise because honestly, to me, OG Mikel Bridges, they were magicians in that Indiana Pacer series. They made themselves disappear. If they would have played better, if Cardi times would have played defense, maybe they would have beaten Indiana. But to try to blame it on the head coach. When you guys listen, Lewis, I'm with you.

[Don Hahn]

I hate it. I hate that these athletes can dictate it. Pointing the finger. Wasn't me, it's the coach. I can't play for that guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Just so Louis understands, it was the athletic, it was not Sean.

[Don Hahn]

Right, but what are you supposed to do? Oh, use these guys as trade pieces. You know how hard it is to move these contracts in a cap sport. Just reconstruct your whole roster, which is really good. Was good enough to get to the final four of the NBA and you're going to blow it up or are you just going to let the coach go and find somebody else? And as far as Jason Kidd is concerned, we all know Jason Kidd's act. For all I know, Jason Kidd probably said to the Knicks, don't worry about it, I'm coming to you. I'll get out of this contract. And the Dallas is going to play hardball. But at some point, Allen, if you're the Mavericks and Kid doesn't want to be your coach, are you going to. Are you going to fight that hard to keep them? Are you going to say, okay, go, but I'm going to make sure I get compensated.

[Alan Hahn]

And you've got to have somebody in mind as well.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

You got to know what's going on in that scenario as well. But I know changes to their coaching staff just recently.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not ruling out Kid. I think that's where the rub.

[Alan Hahn]

He's the one that's the wild card. You don't know what he's thinking. You don't know what he's.

[Don Hahn]

I think he honestly, I think he wants out.

[Alan Hahn]

Could it be a leverage play? It could be.

[Don Hahn]

I could always get more money even he just got a contract and get another one extension.

[Alan Hahn]

Like that's the whole thing. It's like you can't.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But ownership has changed, the landscape has changed.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And maybe he just, hey, I want to go back to New York. Whatever the reason, you know, why did he want to leave the Nets to go to Milwaukee? You know, he gets wanderlust sometimes and he might want to come and he might have told the Knicks, whatever you do, I want to come coach for you. So it could still happen. Like Houston shut it down right away. Minnesota shut it down right away. Dallas eventually said no, but like it wasn't shut down. It did the whole way. There's something going on that makes me think Kid is definitely still in play. The nose from Houston and Minnesota hit different, especially Houston.

[Alan Hahn]

Houston was Immediate bang in Minnesota, too. Yeah, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Let's go to Joseph on Staten Island. You're on ESPN New York.

[E]

You're taking Michael K's Yankee boy to a whole new level with Knicks boy. Because this is embarrassing, what we're doing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay? Wow.

[E]

Embarrassing. You heard shams on McAfee today. Teams are hanging up on us before we even answer the phone. The crowd's laughing at us. We had to dig out of this hole. Embarrassment. For 20 years, and we've just taken five steps back.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry.

[E]

This is embarrassing.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, Joseph, just take a breath. So a team that has a coach that it likes hangs up on you before you even ask the question. Because it's already been out in reports, so they know the question that's coming. Like, if that's. If that's the. What's being described. Oh, we hung up on them before they even got the words out. Which, by the way, as you know, that's not quite how it always works. But it sounds great, so we'll go with it. But what would you do? What would you do if you were. You had a team and you had a coach that you liked and another team wants to poach him, would you. Would you have this really nice conversation and, well, what do you want for? Or would you just hang up on him? Of course you're hanging up on him.

[D]

No, I would hang up on him.

[Alan Hahn]

So it's not. So when you say. But when you say it's embarrassing, what would you expect a team to do? Of course they're gonna hang up on you. But you're asking because you want to see, you know, what is the coach gonna find out that we're interested in him? And that coach might be like, you know what? I kind of would rather the coach there. And then you let all that play out behind the scenes over there. It's just like throwing a grenade and then walking away. All right, let's see what happens. Let's see if it messes them up a little bit. Let's see if, like, you know, sometime in the middle of the summer, it's like, well, hang on, you. You know, maybe he really didn't. Wasn't want to be here anymore. And we revisit it, whatever it is. That's. You just know this is how it's going down. Secondly, if I make a list of five coaches and three of them happen to be working for another team, I'm going to call those teams because that's the way I have to do it. And you're not pursuing one coach if you don't think you can get them. And there's not a guy that isn't working for another team that you look at as the best guy for my team. Unfortunately, sometimes the best guy for my team is working for another team. And I'm going to see if I can swing it and get him out of there. And if it fails, at least I try.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And every great trade, you know, I'm a little annoyed.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm a little annoyed that they haven't. They didn't call the Clippers about Ty Low. Why not? Everybody else saying no. Get Ballmer to say no, too. Who cares? At least I'm trying. I'm letting you know I'm not just hiring Joe Blow. I'm trying to get the best.

[Don Hahn]

Every great. I'm trying to make every great signing. Every great move started out with a hang up. No way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Every move began with a hang.

[Don Hahn]

And then you. Then you get to a point where all of a sudden it becomes a reality. Like, how many times? Like, how did this trade start? Well, it started with me calling them and them laughing at me, right? And then they called back, and then I laughed at them. And then a week later, we had a deal. Done.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Marvin and Edison, you're on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That is true.

[Don Hahn]

Rosenberg. What's up, Armin?

[E]

Hey, guys.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey.

[E]

What's going on, guys? Listen to you guys every day. Love the show. To be fair, I called during the first back and forth that Alan and Peter had. Seems like you guys have, you know, tempered your views a little bit. But I just wanted to call to say that I feel like sometimes with the Knicks, Alan lacks a little bit of objectivity, just a little, because I feel that, like, during the whole year, you said, no way they're firing tips. No way. The day they fired tips, you're like.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow, I said I was wrong.

[E]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Alan Hahn]

I said I was wrong.

[E]

No, no, no, you did. You did. But also if. Correct me if I'm wrong, you said there's no way they would fire kids if they didn't have somebody already in the wing, somebody in mind, Right? So it seems they have that.

[Alan Hahn]

They did have someone in mind. His name is Jason. Like that. Like, I wasn't wrong about that either. Like, that's when I was right about. But, but, but I. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have fired him. I didn't think they would go this far with it. I knew there was like, you heard the rumblings. But I was like, this is not I couldn't believe they would do that after back to back 50 win seeds, all the success he's had. I could. Even Peter said that after they beat the Celtics twice, even Peter said, lock it up, he might as well buy a house. And so that's the point. I wasn't, I wasn't trying to like defend it or be, not be objective. I was seeing what I saw. And then when they fired him, I was stunned. Stunned that they did it.

[E]

I hear you.

[Alan Hahn]

And then I kept saying, but there's no way they do this without having somebody in mind like this. You can't just do this blindly. And it's clear that Jason kid was the guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, go ahead. Yes, you may I.

[E]

One more thing before I, before you hang up on me. If they don't end up getting Jason Kidd, they don't end up getting the guy that they wanted and they have to settle for somebody else. Do you think it's a mistake? Do you think that in their face?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[E]

For not Absolutely.

[Alan Hahn]

Absolutely. What if I said. Wait, Marvin, Marvin, one last thing. If you listen to the show regularly, you know that I always, I reference when this happened. I reference a game and I want, I wonder, I warned everyone. There's a game, right, that people play a coffee table game. And I say think of that game. And if you take the wrong piece out, the whole thing falls down. What's the game? Jenga. So if, if, if the scenario plays the way you're saying, of course I'm going to the Jenga. It's. Exactly. That's what I'm warning you. But one false move thing comes down.

[Don Hahn]

Marvin, here's the issue with what you said about the. If they end up not getting the guy they want, are they going to admit they made a mistake firing Tibbs? Are they going to admit they made a mistake if the players didn't want to play for him?

[Alan Hahn]

What about a George Steinbrenner going back to Buck Showalter?

[Don Hahn]

Right? That scenario of crying back and saying, tibbs, please come back. But that's not going to happen because yet I don't think the, the fans are that outraged. I think they're more outraged with what the plan is or the process of the new head coach. But I keep circling back to if the players made it known they didn't want to play for him, well, then why would anybody ever look at it as a mistake? Blame the players. Maybe the players screwed up. Are the players going to apologize if they bring in the wrong guy and they end up finishing you know, 500 next year and bounce get bounced in the first round of the playoffs. The players going to apologize? Are they going to point the finger again at somebody else brought the wrong guy in? It'll be the man of Roses fall. He didn't make enough trades at the.

[Alan Hahn]

Deadline and then you really got away.

[Don Hahn]

That's what frustrates me about all of this. Because the players never take the blame.

[Alan Hahn]

Nope.

[Don Hahn]

It's always everybody else's fault. It's the head coach's fault, the trainer's fault, it's the general manager's fault, the owner's fault, the fans fault. When is it your fault?

[Alan Hahn]

When did I say what did I say too? When everybody was saying that this is a Dolan thing or this is a Leon Rose, when they were trying to always pin it on one person, I said no, this is a collective. And it started with the players pushing it over the top. It's the players. This was a clearly player driven thing that took something that was a grumble, a whisper and they turned it into a scream. And that's what this has become now. So don't. When you're trying to point fingers, trust me. It's all around that room. Don Hahn and Rosenberg Weekdays at 3 on 8:80 ESPN and the ESPN New York applause.