Peter Rosenberg (2:00)

It's not.

Alan Hahn (2:01)

Do you mean the mink man?

Peter Rosenberg (2:02)

It's not BT.

Alan Hahn (2:03)

Well, BT's there, but I. But I know BT's voice. It was a different voice.

Peter Rosenberg (2:08)

Okay.

Alan Hahn (2:08)

I don't know if it was Vin Parisi. It sounded like Wally, be honest with you, but I don't think Wally does it.

Peter Rosenberg (2:12)

Zerbiak? No.

Alan Hahn (2:13)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (2:14)

Speaking of which, Miami of Ohio, which was 310 this season, lost in the quarterfinal to UMass today. Their first luck.

Alan Hahn (2:24)

Now Calipari's not still coaching there.

Peter Rosenberg (2:27)

Oh, no.

Alan Hahn (2:28)

Caliperi can be playing there, right?

Peter Rosenberg (2:31)

It's not Marcus Campbell. He's not there either.

Alan Hahn (2:33)

Marcus can be.

Peter Rosenberg (2:33)

That's right. Julius Irving. I don't. I think he graduated. I don't think he's there anymore. But. But yeah, that. That's a big one. Because they had been undefeated. They're the Mac. The Mid Atlantic Conference will have now because of the conference championship automatic bid. They're gonna have two teams in the NCAA tournament because there's no way Miami at 31 wins despite losing in the quarterfinal of their own. They gotta get in. Right? So this is that time of year, though, where crazy stuff happens and it starts to mess with the. The bracket, so. But St. John's advances. They'll be in the semifinal, try to be back to back Biggie's champions if they can get through this gamut. And we'll be there tomorrow across the street, you know, 8th Avenue. Right across the street in Moynihan Train Hall. So if you're going to that game tomorrow and you want to hang out early, our show starts at three, as you know, and we will be there, so make sure you hang out with us. Did you guys stay up for the Knicks game?

Alan Hahn (3:30)

I. I got. I went to bed at the half and then I kept. I couldn't sleep because I wanted to know what was going on and I guess I took it. I just. Alexa, what's the Knicks score? Because I was trying to listen for a bit and they were up. They were down by nine. And then the next thing you know, I get an update. Like, there's four minutes left in the fourth quarter and they're up like 15, 20 points. Like, wow, that's a quick turnover. A team that was down nine at the half, right? It was like nine. They just mailed in the first half pretty much, but then they woke up and ended up winning pretty easily. But what was the last score that I got? It was like 82, 69, maybe.

Peter Rosenberg (4:13)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (4:13)

And then the next time I check, they're up, you know, 125. It was ridiculous.

Peter Rosenberg (4:17)

Yeah, it was one of those flip the switch games. I love the bat, the bunny thing that you always say, because that's really what it felt like. That first quarter was so annoying. 41 points they gave this Jazz team. I defy you to name one player who played for the Jazz last night.

Alan Hahn (4:33)

You can name more players that don't play.

Peter Rosenberg (4:36)

Yes, you definitely could. But they were. It's just Soft defense, whatever it was. But yeah, they went on a 20 to 4 run in the second half and kind of were like, all right, we're done. We're done messing around. And they won the game going away. And that's what they do. Like they. When they win games, as frustrating as they are, because we do, and I'll keep saying this, we magnify the losses more than we. We talk about how they win and what they do when they win. And we are at that point now where it feels very Yankees. Do you know what I mean when I say that? Because all throughout a Yankee season, especially last year, it's like, well, when they go on a good stretch, it doesn't matter until October if they lose. Well, this doesn't look good for October. It's always about October with the Yankees. It's never about a regular season. If they win the division. Nobody cares, right? They don't. It doesn't matter if you win the division. It doesn't matter if you have the best record in baseball because everything continues to be based on how good they are when it matters most. I feel like the Knicks, after going through a bunch of playoff runs the last couple of years, this group seems like a team that's like, can we just get to April? Like, who are we playing tonight? Whatever. Like they, they don't seem to turn it on. I think it's dangerous. I don't like it. You can get bad habits this way. But it's a weird mentality that I think I'm trying to figure it out, but that's what it seems like with this team.

Alan Hahn (6:04)

But I think it's based off a narrative that no longer exists because I don't know if it's so much of being a perennial playoff team like the Yankees. Yankees are perennial playoff team. So they can wake me up in October because, you know, 95% of the time they're going to be in October, they're going to make the playoffs. This Nick thing is relatively new. The Knicks are not the Yankees. Sorry, they're not.

Peter Rosenberg (6:26)

Well, but I mean, but this core,

Alan Hahn (6:28)

though, this core, that narrative is they were the favorites to come out of the East. Why? Well, two reasons. One, because they went to the conference final last year. So of course they're going to be in the conversation to be one of the favorites in the East. But the reason they were the clear cut favorite is because Halliburton and Tatum went down and the path seemed to be easy. Well, now that we Fast forward to March 12th, guys, path isn't easy anymore.

Peter Rosenberg (6:53)

Right.

Alan Hahn (6:53)

So doesn't the narrative change because Tatum is back? We. Boston was a force even before Tatum came back. All of a sudden, Detroit's a thing, Right? Whether you believe it or not, I'm still not sure. The Cleveland Cavaliers went out and made a trade for one of the better players in the league in Harden. So the path all of a sudden got rocky and hilly and difficult. So why are we still going and basing everything off the narrative of, oh, they got to get to the NBA Finals or it's a bust of a season. When do we pivot, guys? When do we say, you know, what is that the goal anymore? They certainly haven't played like a championship caliber team consistently this year. Boston now has changed the narrative. Detroit has changed the narrative, especially when you played against them. So why are we talking about something back in October when March is a completely different animal? Why? But what you're saying. I agree with everything you're saying, but none of it changes the mentality that the. The team has about themselves. You know, their belief that we are a team that does this. We show every year. We don't just mess around. When the playoffs come, we can actually have a bit of a playoff run. Last year we were within a whisker of going to the finals. Even though everything you're saying is true, you know what I'm saying, it doesn't change their constitution as a team. So. But I hear what you're saying. From a fan standpoint, the whole thing has changed. Our expectations probably should have changed. Well, because we thought, honestly, let's be honest and tell me if I'm wrong, that when, when the season kicked off, if you said March 12, the Knicks would be third, you'd be like, what, third? Who, who's ahead of them?

Peter Rosenberg (8:30)

Yeah, Detroit Pistons in October. If I said to you Boston would be the second seed. Yeah. You wouldn't believe it. You thought it was them in Cleveland that. Everybody thought it. Cleveland, you know, really struggled early on. They had to make some pretty significant moves, shook up their roster. They've been better. Although, like I said, I still, if you watch them, they, they're, they're a little bit better. They're not that much better. But here's why. I don't like the idea of batting the bunny, flip the switch when you need to. And looking ahead to April, like just fast forward. Can we just get there? And I get why they have been driven hard the last couple of years by the previous coach on Thibodeau who wanted to win every Single night, play hard every night, and they feel like, I think when we get to the playoffs, we were tired, it was harder to take it up a notch. And this is a veteran team that's thinking, we get to April, we'll turn it up. Right now, we're just, we want to get through the season, we want to be healthy, all that stuff. And I said that's dangerous because you get bad habits. But I also, like, don't look at it as, oh, we're fine with the three seed because I still would want home court advantage as much as I possibly can. And if Detroit's the one seed and you don't really trust them and you can get the two seed, here's why. Case in point is Boston, as well as they've played this year and the addition of Jayson Tatum, there is still a situation that you could catch them for second. Here's, here's what we got tonight. They played the Thunder tonight. That's a big game. Tatum's already declared out and they're going to manage the Achilles. This is the first game now that they're going to say, you're going to sit out this game and we're going to let you rest. As he's now working his way back from that injury. Derek White's questionable. So Boston's 43 and 22. If they lose this game tonight, which is of course possible because the Thunder are, they're the best team in the

Alan Hahn (10:29)

league under the best circumstances is possible.

Peter Rosenberg (10:31)

Right? It's possible. A loss puts them just two in the loss column ahead of the Knicks. If the Knicks win Friday against the Pacers in Indianapolis, where the Pacers are playing tonight. So it's a back to back. If the Knicks get a win there, they have 43 wins. The Celtics would have 43 wins. So they're now equal on the win column and they'd only be two back in the loss column. And they already have two wins against Boston. Head to head with one more game to play and an easy schedule. There is opportunity. So I don't know what you need for motivation, but if I'm a fan, I'm watching tonight to see if Boston loses. And then I don't want to hear about end of a road trip. You know, Pacers always play us tough. No, I don't want to hear any of that. You take care of business. You, you have to win these games because you want to set yourself up that if you can all of a sudden get that two seed and you find yourself in a playoff Battle, you want all the home games you can get and you also want to see is that top seed going to hold or if we get to a conference final, will they be there? Because let's not forget the Cavs were the top seed last year. Who had home court advantage in the Eastern Conference finals last season? The Knicks did because the Cavs weren't there.

Alan Hahn (11:57)

That's right.

Peter Rosenberg (11:59)

So keep that stuff in mind. These games right now do matter as much as people want to say they don't. And maybe fans that want to talk about, oh, they only want to get to the playoffs. This doesn't matter. Oh, it does matter because you don't want to be there in May going, if only we got. If we didn't lose that game to Pacer, we didn't lose this game to this weak team. We could have had the two seated. Everything could have been different.

Alan Hahn (12:24)

But you brought up yesterday the fool's goal. They could still get there even if the attitude doesn't change because it's such a weak game. Like yesterday's an example where maybe if it's anybody else, they get bit. But because it's the Jazz, they still won the game and they'll win the game against Indiana. I know Indiana beat them last time and they play them. They had a miracle three coming out of the NBA cup to beat them, but now we're a little bit later in the season. I don't think they're losing to the Pacers. They might bat the bunny for three quarters, but then they'll find a way to win. Okay, but they could. But Allen, they could still mess around, not correct this, not take it seriously and still finish with the second seat. Boston schedules difficult. They're going to manage Tatum down the stretch. They're not going to kill him to get the two seed. So even if they do everything that you're saying, I don't know if it necessarily answers any of the questions. I don't think any of these questions can be answered. Oh, no, I'm not to the postseason.

Peter Rosenberg (13:21)

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's about answering questions. I think it's about just turning it up. Like we're. Wait, we saw this team turn it up against San Antonio. Very impressive game. We saw this team turn it up against the Thunder, which was a loss. But one of those odd, you know, you know what, that's a loss. But that was a hell of a battle.

Alan Hahn (13:41)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (13:41)

We saw them turn it up in Denver against the Nuggets. Like these are the Top teams, we see them do it when it matters. I hated what they did in L. A. I don't know what the hell that was about. And then they had a bad start in Utah. But I have seen them dial it up when they need to dial it up. It's just Detroit is the one that hangs over your head. But, like, here's this, a crazy stat that a friend of mine sent who works for NBC. They've got a game coming up, and it's. It's the win differential. So, I'm sorry, the point differential in wins this season. So in their 42 wins this season, the Knicks scoring point differential is plus 16.9.

Alan Hahn (14:27)

It's a good stat, Allen. I'm not going to lie to you. It's a decent statistic.

Peter Rosenberg (14:30)

They're beating teams. Oklahoma City is 16.8. Boston is 15.9. Like, that's your example of the better teams. When they win, they usually kick the crap out of you. Right? Like. Like that's what that says a lot. But what bothers you is that the losses tend to look bad. And that's the part that you don't like. You don't like the way the losses look. And I think that's why there's so much skepticism about this group. But, like, last night, you want more losses. Like the Thunder loss, at least it's a fight.

Alan Hahn (15:06)

The stats can become Tonka Truck, because last night would not be an example of a blowout, even though technically it was. Last night would be example of them just not really taking the opponent seriously, not caring. And then they turned it on and won by double digits. So that you'd follow that in if you didn't watch the game, you'd filed away as all. They did what they were supposed to do. They kicked the Jazz around. They didn't.

Peter Rosenberg (15:28)

Well, they did in the second half. 78 to 52 in the second half. Right.

Alan Hahn (15:31)

But. But anybody looking at our text thread through the first half of the game,

Peter Rosenberg (15:35)

oh, my God, what's going on? First quarter. That's unacceptable.

Alan Hahn (15:38)

Well, let me throw this out here. In defense of the Knicks, in that situation, we can't act as if first halves like that aren't just super commonplace in the NBA. So, like, looking up at a team, when you guys. When I first saw the text, you know that I'm in. I'm in dad land at this time of night, after I put the baby to bed and I finally settled in here and I see the text, I'm like, oh, God, how bad is this? I go and look. And they were down 61, 49. And I'm like, all right, that's striking distance for the. I'm not thinking. I thought I was gonna look. And by the tone of the text, they were still gonna be. They were at 25 points. But in the NBA, when I see a team down 12 with two quarters of basketball left, I. You know what I'm saying?

Peter Rosenberg (16:19)

I don't.

Alan Hahn (16:19)

I don't have. I don't pass that much judgment.

Peter Rosenberg (16:21)

It was 49, 31 early in the second quarter. That was the one. You go, are they really going to give this away? But is that the biggest lead was 18, 18? Yeah, it was the biggest lead, biggest deficit, if you want to look at it from the other perspective. But. And you're also playing Utah. Like, I was also saying, at some point, Utah, who doesn't want to win, is going to dial it back, right? Like, there's always something that happens for those teams that find a way to go, yeah, we don't really want to win. So let's. Let's play these gu.

Alan Hahn (16:49)

That's got to play into the Knicks hands, right? Like, they're thinking, at the end of the day, they're going to give this to us. Now, I don't think there's any excuse.

Peter Rosenberg (16:57)

No player thinks that way to not care.

Alan Hahn (16:59)

Well, I hope not. But you just want. Like, this tanking thing is still relatively new, right? So you walk into a building and there's nobody there, and the fans don't. And the fans want them to lose. And you're like, all right, well, listen, no matter how bad it gets, we know at the end of the day, we're still going to win this game. It's dangerous because all you need is Jalen Brunson to step the wrong way and leave the game or the calls not go your way, and then you don't find a way to come back. You don't want to mess around with that. But at the same time, it's just. Still. I'm not used to following sports, playing sports, covering sports where both teams weren't interested in winning. This is still relatively new to me. Is it new to you? Maybe it was going on and I just didn't know. Or maybe they did a better job of hiding it, but. So it's weird. It's still odd to me when a team falls behind 18 points to a lousy team, and it doesn't enter my mind at all that maybe it's because the. You know, the Knicks know that the Jazz will hand it to him in the second half because the last thing that Utah wants to do is win.

Peter Rosenberg (18:04)

There's too much of that attitude. The way you're putting it though, is I've seen this, I've actually experienced this when you, when you play like open gym and you're playing open gym and you know, like, you're a filler. Like I was always a filler. So you get a couple NBA guys, you get a couple of high level college guys and they want to get a good run, but they need 10, so they have like seven. They need three dudes. I'm always one of the three dudes, right? That's who I used to be back in the day. It was a good run. I'll take it for the cardio. But I know, you know, I'm nowhere near any of the better players out there. And if you're on a team that's stacked, you could be down. Like, if we're playing a 21, you could be down 15 to 8 or 17 to 9. And you're thinking in your brain, because I'm, you know, I'm a regular person, I'm like, oh, man, we're lose this game. And then you just look and the two dudes on your team that have like NBA contracts just turn it on. And now all of a sudden, we won 21 19. How the hell did that happen? It's just these guys have a different. They. They just know they can go a certain amount into a game and then they're like, all right, enough's enough. All right, you know, no more bs

Alan Hahn (19:13)

And I guess basketball is the ones. Basketball is the one sport where you could do that.

Peter Rosenberg (19:19)

Like Brunson went crazy in the second half. Like he was, all right, we're done.

Alan Hahn (19:22)

Like in baseball, if you're going up against an inferior team, but for whatever reason, that pitcher or that bullpen's got it going on that night. You know, you don't come back from the five nothing down. You spot him in the first couple innings. Hockey, same thing. Worst team in the NHL, they're up five nothing. Even. Even if the great team, like, you know, the Edmonton Oilers or Wayne Gretzky decide to turn it on, the goaltender could still say, oh, well, not tonight, right? And you don't come back.

Peter Rosenberg (19:48)

Right.

Alan Hahn (19:49)

But in basketball there's only so much. Especially now with threes, right? You're. You're taking undefended shots and they're going to go down. And sometimes it's not. There's like literally nothing you can do about it.

Peter Rosenberg (19:58)

Or I just or all right, we're done goofing off now. We're locking in defensively and now all of a sudden things that were coming easy to the team that was beating you, the water's off and they don't know what to do. It's just, I'm not saying that it happened late in the third quarter yesterday and it just the whole tide turned immediately. But I don't like it because I don't like that as a habit. I just think this is not what you do to build the right habits. With 15 games to go so 800 now and 93776, the the door is open for the two seat. The Knicks haven't shown you the last couple of games that they're really that like, dialed in on trying to accomplish something in the regular season other than let's get to the playoffs healthy and let's make sure that we have a decent seed. But how big is it in your mind tonight's game to watch Boston and if they lose, to say to yourself Friday night, yes, it's the Pacers. Yes, it's the end of a road trip. I want that one. I want to apply pressure to Boston. I want them to get that two seat. I think that's important. Or are you among the fan base like Don believes this? That I know you said a couple of times, Don, where it's like nothing's going to matter until we get to the postseason. Nothing can be judged until the postseason. So none of this stuff really matters.

Alan Hahn (21:14)

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Peter Rosenberg (23:54)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Alan Hahn (23:57)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Peter Rosenberg (23:59)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. So we got another list today because Peter is going to now have his list that will respond to Don's list from yesterday.

Alan Hahn (24:15)

Kidding me.

Peter Rosenberg (24:16)

And. And don't. As I said I I made a playlist of your list plus some others that we thought we could add to it. It came out came to 10 songs right? I wanted to see if I get home without completely breaking down. Didn't happen.

Alan Hahn (24:31)

Didn't happen.

Peter Rosenberg (24:33)

Imagine sitting in traffic and you're just absolutely losing it. That's what your list does that's what your song list did to me.

Alan Hahn (24:40)

Well, it's. Think of it differently when you have a son or have kids.

Peter Rosenberg (24:45)

It's true.

Alan Hahn (24:45)

Now, remember. Now remember my response to Don's list? Don was specifically talking fathers and sons.

Peter Rosenberg (24:50)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (24:51)

The. The fight that we got into was about sort of, you know, it's confusing because we're idiots, but tone and emotion and things of that. Some would say morons, but. So my list isn't about, you know, one particular relationship.

Peter Rosenberg (25:07)

Right.

Alan Hahn (25:07)

It's just about, you know, I'm having fun now and using it as an opportunity to show Don, who knows a lot about music but hasn't gone super deep on hip hop, some hip hop that may emote in ways that he's never heard before.

Peter Rosenberg (25:22)

Okay, that's what.

Alan Hahn (25:23)

That's the view.

Peter Rosenberg (25:24)

Okay. All right. And we'll see if everybody agrees that's coming up an hour from now, right? No, no, two hours. 5:35.

Alan Hahn (25:30)

35, 30.

Peter Rosenberg (25:31)

Right. Two hours from now. But you know what time it is now, before we get to calls, 800-919-3776.

Alan Hahn (25:37)

I know what time. It better be how you live it.

Peter Rosenberg (25:39)

What? It's not that time. It's time for a tournament update.

Alan Hahn (25:43)

Oh, yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (25:44)

Brought to you by Schwez.

Alan Hahn (25:45)

Oh, I was wrong.

Peter Rosenberg (25:46)

You were wrong. Well, in this case, we're going to do a tournament update.

Alan Hahn (25:50)

Okay.

Peter Rosenberg (25:50)

Quarterfinals of the Big east tournament going on at Madison Square Garden. St. John's already with a win today, 85, 72 over Providence. Zubie. Edge of four, 21 points, 10 rebounds, five assists. He had a hell of a game. St. John's now awaits the winner for the first semifinal two at the Garden, the winner of Creighton Seton Hall. Seton hall right now at the half, up 3,000, 326. So we'll keep an eye on that score and what's going on there. And the reminder, of course, we will be right across the street from the Garden tomorrow doing our show at the Irish exit at Moynihan Train hall. We there at 3. As you know, our show starts then. If St. John's Place at 5:30 in that semifinal, come pregame, hang out with us and then just go right across the street to go watch the game. All right, that's the tournament update presented by Schweppes. Schweppes delivers above the rim. Refreshment. Feel the madness and refresh your game with a Schweppes Seltzer or schweppes ginger ale. 800 now, 193776. What were you. What did you think was coming, Don?

Alan Hahn (26:51)

Oh, I thought it was going to be TT T squared, little Tully time.

Peter Rosenberg (26:57)

Oh, we could do that soon. But right now, Dov in Boston wants to start us off on the calls. Dove. Hey, Dove.

Alan Hahn (27:06)

Big Dove.

Peter Rosenberg (27:06)

Take it away.

Alan Hahn (27:08)

Gentlemen, a very happy Thursday to you. Absolutely.

Peter Rosenberg (27:12)

Thank you.

Alan Hahn (27:12)

You, too. Right back at you. Thank you very much. I wanted to give you a call. You know, I'm looking at this Knicks team, and this conversation has brought me back to a conversation that, to be frank with you, I've been avoiding having with myself and with you guys because I haven't wanted to have it. I want to take us back in the time machine, if I may, all the way back to May of 2024, when Reggie Miller made the very public statement that the Knicks were front runners. And I remember, myself included, everyone was incensed. It was a Thibodeau team. How could you possibly make that statement? This team works so hard, etc. Etc. Two years later, we've made a lot of changes. We've brought in some key pieces like Mikel Bridges, like Cat, like Mike Brown. And I'm watching a team that, to your point, when they blow out teams, they blow them out. When things are going fine, they're going really fine. But when they get down early last night, obviously, notwithstanding, when they get down early, man, especially against good teams, they just stay down there in that hole a lot of times and they finish that game. And you say, what was that? So I asked you guys, two years after that team, has this team become a front runner,

Peter Rosenberg (28:23)

is front runner.

Alan Hahn (28:24)

I'm say one thing. I'll say one thing, guys. Dove's a great caller. I just want to be clear about it. Very thoughtful and actually provocative, thoughtful questions.

Peter Rosenberg (28:32)

Thank you very much. Excellent phone line, the audio, and a great phone line.

Alan Hahn (28:37)

That's 80% of it. Really.

Peter Rosenberg (28:38)

It really is.

Alan Hahn (28:39)

I do that for you guys. That's my gift to you.

Peter Rosenberg (28:42)

Yeah, but, but, but the point he's making is front runner. The way, the right way to describe this team. When it goes well, it goes real well. But when it doesn't, they tend to just kind of like, no, I don't know about mail it in, but they just kind of can't. They can't.

Alan Hahn (28:56)

All of a sudden, Cat starts fouling.

Peter Rosenberg (28:58)

Yeah. The only pushback I'll have on this is Cleveland on Christmas Day. Rockets a couple of weeks ago. They were trailing. Double digits, didn't look good for three quarters. And then just all of a Sudden throttled down. I think they can detonate at any moment. There are just some games they can't. When they lose.

Alan Hahn (29:17)

Listen, it's, it's a semantics of what defines a front runner.

Peter Rosenberg (29:21)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (29:22)

I don't look at them as a front runner in the fact that they like a front runner. Could be that only beat the bad teams, never beat the good teams. I can. You could also say a front runner. There's. There's an inconsistency there. They can beat anybody any given day, but they can lose to anybody any given day. Like would you. They could get bounced in the first two rounds of the playoffs or they can go all the way to the NBA finals and win. So you could look at that is defining a front runner, that maybe you're not as good as you think you are. That's what I. When I look at front runner, to me that's somebody that's running in the front, running high in the race, but ultimately maybe doesn't deserve to be there. That's what I define a front runner. So are the Knicks a front runner? We're talking about them being a team that can win a championship or certainly at least go to the NBA finals. But if they're really not that, then they'd be a front runner. So if you define it that way, which is the way I define it, are they a front runner? I say yes, you're right.

Peter Rosenberg (30:27)

You think they're a front running team.

Alan Hahn (30:29)

Because I don't believe they're a championship caliber team. So if you do, I guess it's like overrated. But. But being being a team that can end up as a two seed, being a team that went to the conference final last year suggests that they are a championship caliber team. But they might be playing in some rarefied air.

Peter Rosenberg (30:49)

So if we're going to look at the league in the just, just this season. Right. Championship caliber teams. Oklahoma City, defending champs. They're obviously that. Obviously San Antonio with a group of core players that have zero playoff experience.

Alan Hahn (31:06)

They could be a front runner, but

Peter Rosenberg (31:07)

yet they are kicking the crap out of everybody.

Alan Hahn (31:10)

But they could be a front runner. They're. They're in contention for that because they haven't done anything. Pistons, the same thing.

Peter Rosenberg (31:15)

Yeah. I was going to give you Detroit. Yeah. Boston with a. Not a front runner group, but yet they have championship DNA because of a couple years ago and they've got Cavs

Alan Hahn (31:26)

definition of a front runner.

Peter Rosenberg (31:27)

Oh my God. That's all they've ever been.

Alan Hahn (31:28)

That. It's a, it's a Picture of their logo in the dictionary.

Peter Rosenberg (31:32)

So the Knicks against teams with a winning record this season are 24 and 19. They're 18 and six against teams below.500. So you clearly they've, that's why the schedule is gonna be easy the rest of the way. They've played way more teams with winning records this season than they haven't. But they are five over 500 against them. It's. But the key is not a great record. But you also want to look, you'd

Alan Hahn (31:57)

also want to look inside there and see what happened in those games. And obviously Alan, you'd remember some of this. But like how often in the games against good teams did they find themselves down and came back versus and then what happened in the losses against those good teams? Were they down the entire game or.

Peter Rosenberg (32:19)

So many of them. It's, it's hard to.

Alan Hahn (32:21)

It's half the season or also the circumstances in which they played the good team. Like not, maybe it's wrong because like, but they seem to own Denver in recent vintage. But they caught Denver at the right time. Second to back to backs.

Peter Rosenberg (32:32)

Right.

Alan Hahn (32:33)

I believe they caught the spurs in the second to back to backs. Definitely. Right.

Peter Rosenberg (32:36)

That was. No, no, no, no.

Alan Hahn (32:37)

But that was the end of the road trip, right?

Peter Rosenberg (32:39)

That was. No, that wasn't in the road trip either. That was a, that was a afternoon game.

Alan Hahn (32:43)

Afternoon game.

Peter Rosenberg (32:44)

That was a one o' clock game at the Garden. They were in town. They had just smoked the Nets and they had a, they had Friday night and Saturday night off in New York.

Alan Hahn (32:52)

Okay. But they, but it wasn't the end of the road trip. But it was deep in, deep in the rodeo road trip.

Peter Rosenberg (32:57)

Yeah, yeah, it was deep in the. And it's the only loss they've had, by the way, in their last 18 games.

Alan Hahn (33:05)

And again, I, I, I predicted victory for that one because that just kind of what the Knicks do.

Peter Rosenberg (33:10)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (33:11)

Like, they just, they surprise you. So you know, they're capable of doing it. But with like capable of doing it and doing it on a consistent basis are two completely different things.

Peter Rosenberg (33:20)

Right.

Alan Hahn (33:21)

So hey, they could beat anybody. But now you got to be four out of seven times when you get to the playoffs, like, that's a different story. Like so does that make you excited?

Peter Rosenberg (33:28)

So that's what I mean is that, does that make you a front runner if you are capable of doing it, but you don't do it consistently enough? Is that front running or is that more of like. I don't want to say fugazi, but it's almost like you're, you know, like you're. I don't know what I try. Like I think they're, they're hard to trust.

Alan Hahn (33:48)

Yeah. Now the question is, are they hard to trust because they don't bring it every night or are they hard to trust because they can't bring it every night? That's what we have to discover. And I don't know if we're gonna get that answer in the final 15

Peter Rosenberg (34:01)

games or not to the playoffs.

Alan Hahn (34:02)

But there's. But you know, unfortunately like. And sometimes it gets defined. Like you look at. I thought the Panthers in the NHL were playing with their food. Guess what? They're not going to make the playoffs. So they weren't. They just ran out of gas. They had too many injuries, couldn't do it.

Peter Rosenberg (34:17)

Right.

Alan Hahn (34:17)

But last year when they fell out of first, I think they finished in third. They were just messing around because they had the pedigree. They didn't feel like they had to take these games important because they won back to back championships, went to the Stanley cup final three straight years. But the Knicks aren't that so. Yeah, maybe they are not taking themselves seriously enough or taking the game seriously, but maybe they just can't. They could beat anybody. They can lose to anybody. Is. Is that on them mentally or is that just, hey, that's who they are because they're not. They're not as good as we think. Yeah, I don't know the answer to it.

Peter Rosenberg (34:50)

I've said their ceiling and floor might be the widest gap of the top four teams in the league. Top five teams in the league. It just feels like that's the thing with them. What we've learned during the regular season and we won't really know until the playoffs come is will that team from last year show up again where it's just every time it's a close game, they find a way to get it done. Let's go back to the calls. Vinnie's in Staten island on the Knicks. Vinnie.

Alan Hahn (35:14)

What's up guys? Point about the Knicks and one point about the gents. I agree with Hannah and Don. You just can't turn it on in the playoffs. You got to win a series. So where they're taking off say against the Utah, another the Lakers. Who's to say they're not going to

Peter Rosenberg (35:35)

do that in the playoffs? You just can't.

Alan Hahn (35:37)

You got to play hard during the whole season. That's the way you want a championship.

Peter Rosenberg (35:40)

Yeah. You want to build habits. Right. You don't championship. It's so true. You don't want to get into this habit of, well, I can just relax. Like, if they have to. I don't. You can't do it for 82, but you're down to 15. You got to start dialing up the competitive nature. So that just becomes muscle memory at this point. That's. That's the part that. That worries me the most, is you don't have that momentum going into the postseason. But we also have seen teams have bad finishes and just turn it on. I. I think the thing about the Knicks is that we don't know what they are. Is that what we're coming? Is that the conclusion we're coming.

Alan Hahn (36:17)

We don't know what they are because we thought we knew what they were. We thought they were the favorites to win the east, and it wasn't their fault. Circumstances changed all of a sudden. Detroit became a juggernaut. Tatum came back. We played great even without Tatum.

Peter Rosenberg (36:33)

But.

Alan Hahn (36:33)

But the thing is, I actually don't think that's why. That, to me, doesn't have anything to do with why we don't know who they are. Detroit could have been what Detroit has been. The Celtics could have gotten Tatum back, and the Knicks still could have played in a way in which we go, no, no, no. We still know who this team is. And again, I know Allen's made a point. He's right. We are overemphasizing those Detroit losses. But it's hard not to when that's the team you will likely have to

Peter Rosenberg (36:58)

deal with if you want to get. That's why I don't think it's over. I don't think we're. We. You. You have to give them the appropriate attention. That's the. Those are the three losses because of who you're, who it is, and that you probably will have to get through them. That's the one that stands out the most, is like getting to the Finals. Can we all agree getting to the Finals has to be the least they do this year to make it feel like a successful season?

Alan Hahn (37:24)

I know, but I. Wait.

Peter Rosenberg (37:25)

The final Finals, getting to the NBA Finals.

Alan Hahn (37:27)

Yeah. I actually don't agree.

Peter Rosenberg (37:30)

You don't have to.

Alan Hahn (37:31)

No, I think they have to look. I think they have to look great in the playoffs, and I think they have to battle in a conference final, and I think you could still feel good about this team.

Peter Rosenberg (37:39)

I'll tell you. I'll tell you why. If that's the case, then we're going back in time to an era that we now talk about how glorious it was during it got very frustrating.

Alan Hahn (37:53)

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Peter Rosenberg (39:38)

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

Alan Hahn (39:42)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Peter Rosenberg (39:43)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. All right, so we'll get into the NFL in the 4 o' clock hour as free agency continues there. And boy, that Max Crosby story continues to get interesting.

Alan Hahn (40:02)

What's the latest?

Peter Rosenberg (40:02)

Vegas well, he, he's, he first of all, he did his whole farewell thing.

Alan Hahn (40:08)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (40:08)

And then now he's doing like he has a, a tweet of the undertaker coming out of the, you know, that whole thing of coming out of the coffin, whatever. And he's like, he's a Raider now. I'm a Raider now. And the Raiders are probably like, are you. You are technically. But you know, we might want to.

Alan Hahn (40:31)

It might be more than just technically now.

Peter Rosenberg (40:33)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (40:34)

Because I don't know, is it even worth getting rid of them now because of these damaged goods? Right. So what are you going to get? Yeah, and I give him credit. He didn't, he didn't destroy the organization when he left. So he, he lay there again. And I give the Raiders this. They've been an embarrassment for a long time now, but they still, even though they, they're playing in Vegas, used to play in Oakland, used to play in Los Angeles. They have maintained that reputation. Max Crosby to me, is a Raider.

Peter Rosenberg (41:04)

He's just. Doesn't he come off as.

Alan Hahn (41:06)

He just comes across as a Raider. And so I think if they end up having to keep him, it's not the end of the world. He didn't go scorched earth when the deal happened. Even though it's horrible for the Raiders, they're trying to rebuild and they thought they did by making this deal and hopefully for them they're able to get something similar. But I doubt it now with the, with the prospects of him not being able to play on that injury for more than maybe just a couple of years. But he's a Raider man.

Peter Rosenberg (41:36)

He said, he said on Twitter, everything happens for a reason. Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see. I'm a Raider. I'm back. Run that blank. Ish, you know. So again, we'll get into some stuff in the 4 o' clock hour, including what Pete Carroll said about Geno Smith to Rich Samini that will interest some of jets fans as well. But right now, still talking Nicks and we've got Dave in the car, wants to continue that conversation. Dave, you're up next.

Alan Hahn (42:04)

Hey, thanks for having me on. I hate to say it, but, you know, because of the way Brown, because

Peter Rosenberg (42:11)

of the way the Knicks are run, where it's kind of like passing, moving

Alan Hahn (42:15)

the ball around, you know, they're not

Peter Rosenberg (42:18)

really setting people up to get them in the flow.

Alan Hahn (42:21)

They kind of have to work it out themselves.

Peter Rosenberg (42:24)

I do see them as a front running team that will be hard pressed if they fell behind in a playoff game. Not just in a game, but in a series.

Alan Hahn (42:33)

It just, they don't strike me as that team. And I just use Bridges as an example. Right now, this part of the season,

Peter Rosenberg (42:41)

I would be specifically running plays, designing

Alan Hahn (42:45)

things to get this guy to score between 15, 20, 25 points.

Peter Rosenberg (42:50)

If I can't get that out of him, how can I really take the

Alan Hahn (42:53)

Knicks seriously in the playoffs if they fall behind?

Peter Rosenberg (42:56)

That's the question. And especially the Bridges part of it. Right. We saw in the playoffs last year how important he is. It's actually when he played well, was in the playoffs. But he's. He's a guy that disappears too easy, and he's too important of a player to disappear that easy. So that's a guy. Also, the whole trust factor, like, let's. Let's just go through it quickly. Starting five, Jalen Brunson. You trust him?

Alan Hahn (43:21)

Oh, yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (43:21)

Okay.

Alan Hahn (43:22)

For sure.

Peter Rosenberg (43:23)

Carl Anthony Towns. Do you trust him?

Alan Hahn (43:27)

I mean, he's going to put up his stats, so if you need 20 points, it depends on what you're expecting. What do you. What do you trust him to do? You know, like, like, for example.

Peter Rosenberg (43:38)

Well, you trust he's going to. He's showing up every night like you're getting something out of him every night. Because I would tell you the Detroit series, as much as Brunson was brilliant. You don't win that series without Cats. Right. He made some epic shots, but he

Alan Hahn (43:49)

might say, he might take three shots in an entire second half of. Of a game. Seven. Right.

Peter Rosenberg (43:55)

So is that try.

Alan Hahn (43:56)

He'll hit him, but I'm not sure he's gonna take him.

Peter Rosenberg (43:59)

Yeah. All right. So. So I. So trust is a, is a iffy, right? Yes. All right. OG Anunoby.

Alan Hahn (44:05)

Yes. Trust me plays. If he's playing trust.

Peter Rosenberg (44:08)

Healthy. Right. You're trusting him. And now we get down to it. Josh Hart, who some people think shouldn't start. Josh Hart. Do you trust him in a playoff series? That he's going to show up, do what he does? Yes. Yeah.

Alan Hahn (44:20)

It's just. What is your expectation for him? I trust he's going to be Josh Hart.

Peter Rosenberg (44:23)

That's. That's what I mean. He'll be who he is.

Alan Hahn (44:25)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (44:26)

Like, he's not going to shrink. He's not going to disappear?

Alan Hahn (44:29)

No.

Peter Rosenberg (44:29)

No. All right. And now we get the Bridges. What, are you trying to trust him?

Alan Hahn (44:33)

No, you can't fully trust.

Peter Rosenberg (44:35)

You can't fully trust that and that out of your starting five, you've got to be able to trust all those guys, yet your whole starting five, you have to trust them. Otherwise you're compromised. Now, he was. He wasn't. He didn't do anything in the Piston series, but in that Celtic series, he was unreal.

Alan Hahn (44:53)

Yeah, but that's it.

Peter Rosenberg (44:53)

His numbers in the playoffs overall were really good last year, and a lot of people felt like, okay, that was worth the draft picks, right? But in the regular season, just like last year, he's had games where, oh, there he is. And then games where. Where'd he go? Last night was another example of Mike Brown was like, all right, I can't play you down the stretch. I got to sit you because somebody else is playing better than you. And that, I don't know. As you're starting five to me, your five most important players, you have to trust them every night in the postseason.

Alan Hahn (45:22)

Now, the thing with Bridges is, is that you won't trust him going into the game, but you'll know early on whether I can trust him for that game.

Peter Rosenberg (45:28)

That's a great point.

Alan Hahn (45:30)

So you look and go, all right, look, we got. We got him tonight.

Peter Rosenberg (45:34)

I trust it.

Alan Hahn (45:35)

But then the next game, you don't know. And then you go in lap. No, we don't have him tonight. Can't trust him.

Peter Rosenberg (45:40)

Right. And so. And then your bench. And how about this, though? Mike Brown, do you trust him?

Alan Hahn (45:48)

I. I can't. I can't say. I can't say. Can. Right?

Peter Rosenberg (45:51)

How much is Mike Brown, the conversation guys with compared to Tom Thibodeau?

Alan Hahn (45:56)

Well, you kind of knew. You knew. Listen, you might have had problems with him overall, playing too many minutes, but I think you knew he was a really good coach. But many believe they lost that series to Indiana because he was out coached by Riccarlo. Don't you think that they're going to be times where you're like, I don't know.

Peter Rosenberg (46:20)

I think that's where Mike Brown will be judged the most. Right.

Alan Hahn (46:25)

Well, that's why he's here.

Peter Rosenberg (46:26)

Like, will he. Yeah. His. His whole job. The whole reason why this job opened was because there was this sense that, you know, we've gone as far as we can with this coach. Now we got a new coach that's going to take us a step further. Don't forget the owner back in. When was it? January. He said it. Finals. We must make the finals.

Alan Hahn (46:49)

I know, but. But getting back to your tease, though, that was because there was no Halliburton and Tatum, Right? Let's say. Let's say Halliburton and Tatum never got hurt. Now, the Knicks still beat the Celtics with Tatum. Would they have been the odds? Would we be saying all the path is there? Like, it's going to be tough. Maybe some people would have them as the favorite because they beat the Celtics the year before. But that should. The reason that Dolan said that the reason why everybody had champion Eastern Conference championship or bust was because it looked like the path was never going to be more clear. That path is very cluttered now.

Peter Rosenberg (47:24)

But you also have to believe that all the moves that were made at this point, aside from blowing the whole thing up to get Giannis, which is a reset.

Alan Hahn (47:32)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (47:33)

Right. I mean that's the only next thing you can do at this point. Otherwise this group, this is it. Right. Like this.

Alan Hahn (47:41)

Get the Kenny loggings ready.

Peter Rosenberg (47:43)

And that's why I'm telling you and I'll. I'll tell you why the idea of just getting the conference finals is in the 90s while we look back now and go man, every year in the playoffs 15 years and always winning a playoff series and all that stuff. The problem was never breaking through. So in the moment in the night, it got so frustrating because it just felt like God just can't get past. And then when you finally. When there's no Jordan can't win that game. There was so much frustration when it came to that. It started to then develop the you got to move on from Ewing. You got to move on. You got to change there yet. We're five years now. This will be five years. Brunson's been here for four. But when do you like that's the problem.

Alan Hahn (48:29)

This is year four. With Brunson.

Peter Rosenberg (48:30)

With Brunson. Right. And so when you. When you aren't breaking through, you know it starts to now creep in of will they ever.

Alan Hahn (48:38)

Well if you lose to the Pistons, you could be mad that how did the Pistons and jump ahead of us.

Peter Rosenberg (48:43)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (48:43)

But if you lose a tough seven game series to Tatum and the Celtics, are you really beating yourself up that much now? If you lost to him without Tatum, I'd understand.

Peter Rosenberg (48:54)

You got to feel like you really. You don't feel like you. You're closing the gap there. You got to feel like you close

Alan Hahn (48:59)

the Gabby last year they come back and beat you. I mean that's how do you get

Peter Rosenberg (49:02)

better goes that's the problem is that how do you get better?

Alan Hahn (49:05)

Well, that's your team.

Peter Rosenberg (49:06)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (49:07)

This is your team and the team's not good enough.

Peter Rosenberg (49:09)

And that's what you said there, Don. That of course is going to remain the concern and we won't know until of course, the spring as we said at the beginning. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Alan Hahn (49:22)

I don't want to know how the

Peter Rosenberg (49:22)

sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter

Alan Hahn (49:26)

Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app

Peter Rosenberg (49:32)

and your smart speakers. Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces. TGL playoffs are here.

Alan Hahn (49:39)

First Atlanta Drives, starts their repeat run

Peter Rosenberg (49:41)

against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers

Alan Hahn (49:45)

Jupiter Lynx face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance?

Peter Rosenberg (49:48)

Keep up its playoffs. Tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6:30pm and 9pm only on ESPN and the ESPN applied.