Hour 2: Bearded Yankees

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary Episode: Hour 2: Bearded Yankees
Release Date: February 21, 2025

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Introduction

In the February 21, 2025 episode of the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast, hosts Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve into a significant shift within the New York Yankees organization—the recent change in the team's longstanding beard policy. This episode, titled "Bearded Yankees," explores the implications of this policy update, the reactions from key figures within the Yankees' management, and the broader impact on the team's brand and culture.

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Yankees' Beards Policy Change

Announcement and Official Statements

The episode kicks off with a detailed discussion about the Yankees' decision to amend their beard policy, allowing players to sport neatly kept beards. This marks a historic shift from the team's previous stance, which mandated that players maintain a clean-shaven appearance.

Brian Cashman’s Statement
At [02:39], Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman addresses the change, highlighting the cultural shift towards facial hair in modern society:

“This generation, you know, the vast majority of men in their 30s into the 40s in this country have beards... It is a part of their character. It's a part of their Persona.”
— Brian Cashman, [02:39]

Cashman emphasizes that facial hair is now commonplace among men, including prominent figures like the Vice President and members of Congress, reflecting a broader acceptance and personal expression that the Yankees aim to accommodate.

Hal Steinbrenner’s Statement
At [07:07], Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner provides further context for the decision, likening the Yankees' organizational changes to a slow-moving naval vessel adapting to the times:

“History, traditions slow to change. So this is a baby step of making an adjustment that is, I think, appropriate.”
— Hal Steinbrenner, [07:07]

Steinbrenner acknowledges the historical significance of the Yankees' brand but insists that evolution is necessary to remain competitive and relevant in the modern era.

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Hosts' Discussion

Don Hahn’s Perspective

Don Hahn advocates for the policy change, arguing that it was long overdue and beneficial for adapting to contemporary standards. He criticizes the delayed nature of the policy update and the manner in which it was publicized.

“It's 20 years too late... Players have a lot more say now. Individuality is important.”
— Don Hahn, [05:05]

Hahn also points out the necessity of evolving the Yankees' brand to attract talent in a competitive landscape where other teams offer more flexible personal expression to their players.

Peter Rosenberg’s Counterpoints

Peter Rosenberg shares a critical view of the policy change, questioning its timing and the necessity of a press conference surrounding it. He connects the change to broader concerns about the Yankees losing their traditional cachet and uniqueness.

“I really do think this is just dumb. The whole thing is dumb. The outrage about it, people happy about it, all of it. It's silly.”
— Peter Rosenberg, [08:14]

Rosenberg also discusses how the policy might signal deeper issues within the Yankees' organization, such as declining performance and the inability to outspend competitors, referencing past Yankees' standards and their impact on the team's reputation.

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Listener Calls

Ben from East Village

At [18:20], Ben expresses his thoughts on the policy change, linking it to other recent alterations in the Yankees' branding, such as the addition of sponsor logos on jerseys.

“The sponsorship logo being added to the jersey in the previous years... the Yankees cache losing that cachet.”
— Caller Ben, [18:20]

Ben believes these changes collectively dilute the Yankees' storied tradition, making the brand seem less exclusive and more commercially driven.

Paul from Woodbridge

At [25:25], Paul argues that the policy change is indicative of a broader decline in the Yankees' standards and performance, drawing parallels between on-field errors and administrative decisions.

“This is just the biggest sign of weakness from a baseball team I've ever seen... People like wearing beards. The Vice President, United States has a beard.”
— Caller Paul, [25:25]

Paul views the policy change as a desperate move that undermines the Yankees' historical identity and commitment to excellence.

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Conclusion

The hosts wrap up the discussion by weighing the arguments presented. Don Hahn maintains that the policy change is a necessary step towards modernization, allowing the Yankees to stay competitive in attracting talent. Conversely, Peter Rosenberg remains skeptical, viewing the change as symptomatic of deeper organizational issues that may affect the team's legacy and performance.

Don Hahn’s Final Thoughts
At [27:32], Hahn reiterates his support for evolution within the organization:

“We need to evolve away from this now... it's a sign of, hey, you know, we've got to modernize our way of thinking.”
— Don Hahn, [27:32]

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the passionate responses from listeners and a promise to continue exploring and addressing these evolving dynamics within the Yankees organization in future episodes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Don Hahn

  “It’s 20 years too late... Players have a lot more say now. Individuality is important.”
  [05:05]

• Peter Rosenberg

  “I really do think this is just dumb. The whole thing is dumb. The outrage about it, people happy about it, all of it. It's silly.”
  [08:14]

• Brian Cashman

  “This generation... it is a part of who these younger men are.”
  [02:39]

• Hal Steinbrenner

  “History, traditions slow to change. So this is a baby step of making an adjustment that is, I think, appropriate.”
  [07:07]

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This episode provides a comprehensive examination of a pivotal change within the Yankees franchise, offering listeners diverse perspectives on how tradition and modernity intersect within one of baseball's most iconic teams.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

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[Rosenberg]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Rosenberg]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. All right, Moving into the 4:00 hour, Don Han Rosenberg, 880 ESPN, the ESPNY app. Peter on assignment today.

[Don Hahn]

That's right.

[Rosenberg]

Well, he hasn't exactly, although the timing is just so perfect that he just got in his car and drove right across the Canadian border and declared himself Canadian, very happy with his with his home country, Canada. Winning. Winning the four Nations. I just say the series is tied at one and we'll see it. We'll see you next year. That's what I'm going to say. I'm going to leave it there, Don. Dealer's choice. You ready? I'm going to throw two topics on the menu. You tell me which one you like better. You got the Knicks now with a weekend from hell, which is at Cleveland and then at Boston on Sunday afternoon and some not so great injury information. Or we've got the Yankees moving into the 21st century.

[Don Hahn]

I got a lot to say about the beard policy.

[Rosenberg]

Okay, well, let's go there. It is something that I know you guys have talked about in the past on the previous show. It is something that I honestly often forget is a thing until it doesn't become a thing or until somebody becomes a former Yankee. And suddenly I'm like, yo, he grew a beard. Why? And then you realize like, oh, because he couldn't with the Yankees. You remember Johnny Damon had to come and clean it up. It was several other players. Some of them looked weird not sporting a beard. And then some after the fact did, almost like in rebellion. But Hal Steinbrenner made it official today. And I can't believe there was a press release on this, Don that announced that the Yankees would no longer require their players to be clean shaven and that beards, while still kept neatly, were now permissible if you were a New York Yankee. And he actually, Hal Steinbrenner had A press conference with Brian Cashman discussing this and explain things like the research that he put into making this such critical decision.

[Brian Cashman]

So there was a lot of research done. What did I learn from all these conversations? This generation, you know, the vast majority of 2030s, into the 40s men in this country have beards. You know, our new vice president has a beard. Members of Congress have a beard. The list goes on and on and on in this country and in this world. It is a part of who these younger men are. It's a part of their character. It's a part of their Persona. Do I totally relate to that? It's difficult for me. I'm an older guy who's never had a beard in his life. But it's a very important thing to them, and they feel it defines their character. It is also the norm in this country for all the reasons I just talked about.

[Rosenberg]

Now, before you comment, I do want to say that somebody did do the. What would Jordan say? What would you. What would your father think it is? Somebody did ask that question. I'm glad they did. And he was ready with this answer.

[Brian Cashman]

Winning was the most important thing to my father. And again, I think if somebody came and told him that they were very sure that this could affect us getting the players we want to get. All we're trying to do every off season, right, is put ourselves in the best position to get a player that we're trying to get. And if something like this would detract from that, lessen our chances, I don't know, I think he might be a little more apt to do the challenge change that I did, than people think, because it was about winning.

[Rosenberg]

Don, the floor is yours.

[Don Hahn]

I'm a big Hal guy. He listens to the show. And we got a little bet going back and forth between the Giants and the Vikings. But when he sits there and tells us that, apparently these players like facial hair, like it's the equivalent of Nixon at Woodstock going, apparently these kids here really like the rock and roll.

[Hal Steinbrenner]

So.

[Don Hahn]

Let'S let them have. Do the rock and roll. Like, don't. Stop it. The. What did they call themselves? The Red Sox, back when they won in 04.

[Rosenberg]

Oh, idiots. Yeah, yeah. Bunch of idiots.

[Don Hahn]

That was 20 years ago. I mean, everybody's had facial hair. I've had goatees and beards practically my entire adult life.

[Rosenberg]

Come on, now.

[Don Hahn]

Come back to me.

[Rosenberg]

Gossage had a handlebar mustache, right? Like, there were a couple of guys who had, like, serious mustache, like, bushy, heavy, 70s mustaches. The beard, though. No, can't do that.

[Don Hahn]

But it was so convoluted and it was so outdated. And I used to beg Michael, I'm like, tell them to change it. Because the day's gonna come where there is going to be a big time free agent that is known for his beard. And we almost saw it with Brian Wilson when he was the closer for the San Francisco Giants. He had his beard like he had insurance on it from Lords of London. He was doing charitable things around the beard. Like if he became a free agent and wanted to play for the Yankees and they told him to shave it, he'd say, no, I'm not, and go sign someplace else. Like, how would that look? And then you're gonna change the policy after the fact. You'd look clueless. So I said, get out in front of this. Change it before it happens. So I think it's a smart thing to do. It's 20 years too late. I get that Hal want to honor his dad, but his dad did it back in. What was it? They said it was 49 years ago. So we're talking about. It was 1976. It's a long time ago. The players have a lot more say now. Facial hair has become something that these guys don't want to give up. Individuality is important. I love the fact they don't have the names on the back. I love the fact that the Yankees do that. But this policy is outdated, and good thing they did it. Now do I think they needed to have a press conference? I mean, they all right the press release. I get it because it's been a thing. But a press conference? Are you a little, little full of yourself? I mean, come on, man. The press release was enough. But to have a press conference. But everybody had questions and going back to Georgia and all that. It. It's something they had to do. Come on, get with the Times, man. And you know, because the Yankees don't spend the most money anymore, because there are other teams that also spend tons of money and also win that. It's not like the Yankees back at the day. Well, if you want to win, you'll sign with me. Well, I can go sign with the Dodgers. I can go sign with the Mets. I can go sign with the Phillies. I can go sign with a bunch of other teams and maybe have an equal chance to win. And I don't want to have to shave my beard. So good on them. But, man, it's a long time coming. This should have been done at least, you know, after George passed, which was 15 years ago.

[Rosenberg]

Well, on that, on that front, what you're saying there, Brian Cashman does have a reaction.

[Hal Steinbrenner]

The New York Yankees are different and we want to remain different. This is obviously a special place in baseball history. That logo has a lot of meaning behind it and we want our past and our present players to recognize that and the future players to recognize that. So ultimately there's still going to be things that we're going to hold on to that are important for us. But I think what just Hal said more importantly is always trying to be a championship caliber franchise and chasing winning. But we want to separate ourselves from everybody else, be a little different and make a special one. But I do think this is, it's time. It's time for, you know, and it's not an easy decision for Hal Simmer to make, but he's made it over the course of time. Like every decision he makes, he makes with a lot of information before he ultimately gets there. And you know, we're like a gigantic naval battle cruiser. It takes a little while to turn. Maybe those things turn quick. It might be a bad example, but history, traditions slow to change. So this is a baby step of making an adjustment that is, I think, appropriate.

[Rosenberg]

I mean, I like the ship, I like. Well, I like the shipbuilding reference. It does at least give some Steinbrenner history there. But.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but he wasn't sure. Maybe they do turn quickly.

[Rosenberg]

I do not think a battlecruiser does.

[Don Hahn]

No, I don't think so either.

[Rosenberg]

But Don, can I just. First of all, I think this is the most moronic thing. I really do. I really think this is just dumb. The whole thing is dumb. The outrage about it, people happy about it, all of it. It's silly. We know why this came in the 70s with Steinbrenner. He wanted order. He wanted at a time in the 70s. I've always said the 70s were the ugliest. It's the ugliest period in American history for. On many levels, but also just among people. Find me photos of people in the 70s and say there's some good looking people and they probably, if you cleaned them up, they probably would have been handsome or pretty. But the 70s were just an ugly time. The clothes were bad, the hairstyles were bad. Everything was ugly. All right, maybe, maybe not like it's Charlie's Angels. But there was exceptions.

[Don Hahn]

There was always exceptions.

[Rosenberg]

But you know, like I. So you understand when he just didn't want people looking like literal bums because that's in, in that era a lot of times it just everybody looked bummy. But now beards are like part of fashion and it's okay and it's no big deal.

[Don Hahn]

And you know what I mean?

[Rosenberg]

And you know what else I think? I think this, this is too late. This spurt was spurred on by someone or some people or agents saying to them, no, he's not interested in going there. And they had to finally admit that the Yankee brand and the money they can spend is no longer the draw where guys will say, well, they're paying me the most, so I'm. I'll shave. Now they know they can't. So I do think they've lost some people. And Cashman even said that CC Sabathia told them, I almost didn't want to go there because of that policy.

[Don Hahn]

And listen, George did it because he could.

[Rosenberg]

That's true.

[Don Hahn]

Because at the time, you know, in the mid-70s, you know, just as free agency was coming in and the Players association was just kind of get it going with the Marvin Miller and all that, he was able to take advantage of these players. Let's be honest, he had his thumb under these players. But as time goes on and the more power the players get and the more money the players make, you start to lose that power. I think George would have probably figured it out quicker than Hal did, because there was no way George was going to lose out on a free agent. But the look of somebody not going to the Yankees because of a stupid beard policy would look ridiculous. And also, I do think it should look nice. I don't think you should have it unruly. You should be able to trim it, make it look nice, clean it up. I respect the Yankees. Don't put the name on the back. All right? I'm not saying you got to be like the bunch of idiots in 2004 with the Red Sox. I mean, but. But we live in a day and age and don't, don't, don't. It was mentioned. But do not underestimate the influence that J.D. vance has a beard, because how do you tell players all the. It's a bad look. It's disrespectful when the Vice President of the United States wears one.

[Rosenberg]

Don, there were presidents who had beards. Abraham Lincoln famously had a beard.

[Don Hahn]

I know, but it's not like it was a lot going on back.

[Rosenberg]

Not that the vice president had a beard, but we've had that before. James Garfield had a beard.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but you're going back a long time. But in recent vintage, there was a time like you said in the 70s where having a beard was rebellious.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But now it's kind of become the norm. You're not somebody that's rebelling against anything. You're not somebody that's trying to be a hippie, like back in 1976, that it is a respectful and a respected way to groom yourself by having a beard. All right, the vice president has one. When was the last time we saw a president have one? You're bringing up guys from 100 years ago, 150 years ago.

[Rosenberg]

Fair.

[Don Hahn]

When was the last time we had a president with facial hair? Because there was a time there was a stigma to you were a rebel, you were a recluse, that you were somebody that wasn't going to conform.

[Rosenberg]

How about William Howard Taft? Well, was that going too far?

[Don Hahn]

Maybe if Taft worked in a salad, we wouldn't even be having the conversation about his beer.

[Rosenberg]

Worked in a salad.

[Don Hahn]

But. But you know what I'm saying. We're still famously looking at trying to be overly political, just like when a player comes. Because. Because the whole thing, the story that Michael would tell all the time is Lou Piniella had a problem with the policy, and he said to George, he's like Jesus Christ had long hair and a beard. And George walked him over to the pool at the hotel and said, all right, if you walk across water, you can have long hair.

[Rosenberg]

I love that story. Right?

[Don Hahn]

It's a great story. But right now, you know, first of all, the player might not follow you to the pool now. Right? The player might not even want to engage you in conversation. It's a different world, man. You just signed Aaron Judge to a monster contract and made him almost a partner to your team, where you're running ideas by him now. So now you can be telling these. You could. You're running. You're running past Aaron Judge, who they should sign or trade for, but you're not gonna let them have a beard. I mean, it's a different world now, man. You gotta wake up to that. And I'm glad they finally figured it out before somebody forced it on them. You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook meat. Factor your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating. Your goals Factor is dietitian approved, chef prepared, and you plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with factor. Learn more at factor meals.com. Since you're new to H and R Block, we'll look at your returns from the last three years for any money your last guy might have missed for free.

[Rosenberg]

I could get money back from last year.

[Brian Cashman]

You could.

[Don Hahn]

We'll find any mistakes.

[Rosenberg]

Could have really used that two years ago when I dated that mistake for five months. Don't leave money on the table. Switch to H and R block and get a free second look review. Second look is included at no additional cost with the purchase of tax preparation.

[Don Hahn]

Results vary.

[Rosenberg]

All tax situations are different. Fees apply. If you have us file an amended return. Is it Jason Worth that has that insanely disgusting beard?

[Don Hahn]

He's definitely one, but there's another one on the Phillies. His name escaped, but Jason Worth did back in the day.

[Rosenberg]

Now who. Who's the guy in the Phillies I'm thinking of then? And he's like. He literally smells like he doesn't wash like he does. But, yeah, he looks. It looks sweaty all the time. Brandon Marsh. Is that Brandon Marsh? He has the long hair. It's just like he looks like that. That I'd have a policy.

[Don Hahn]

Where do you fall on the Joe Thornton one? Because it's obnoxiously long, but he does kind of keep it like.

[Rosenberg]

Well, like, come on.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, the James Harden I thought was fine. It was. It was a lot. But his groomed it.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, he groomed it. That's the thing is, like, room it. That's my point is like, that's where I would draw the line when you're getting to be where it looks like things live in the beard. That's probably when my policy will kick in, because we don't need that. But in the end, though, the fact that they made a statement and had a press conference about it tells me that this is a bigger deal to them than I think it is to the outside. And I think it does suggest that they must have heard enough to think, yes, guys aren't gonna. Guys don't want to come here as much as they used to. Why does everybody want to go to la? Why is it the Dodgers? Because the Dodgers don't care. They sign you, you come here, play great, and we'll be fine. Do whatever you want. I don't care. But the Yankees, it's like, I gotta shave my face. Now I gotta worry about, you know, Remember the whole thing from the Simpsons, Mattingly, Shave those. Shave those sideburns. Remember that?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Rosenberg]

And by the end of the cartoon, his whole head was shaved. Like, it just got like. At this point, now they know that it's going to cost them. Or maybe it already did.

[Don Hahn]

It might have.

[Rosenberg]

So great beards. Wonderful. Now we're going to see who's the first Yankee that's going to have a beard in history, or at least in George Simon history.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I'll find out is, you know, we got a lot of time between now and opening day. How many current Yankees will all of a sudden now have beards? That's my point. I'll tell you all you need to know.

[Rosenberg]

Well, that's what I said. Like, who's, who's going to be the first? Because a lot of guys probably had to shave when they were showing up knowing. Oh, that's the policy. But maybe if they were told, don't worry about it. Like, Stroman pitched today. Did he have, did he have any facial hair today? Stroman gave us an inning. No clean face.

[Don Hahn]

He looks like he might be the first one. Devin Williams will probably be another.

[Rosenberg]

Oh, he's, yeah, he.

[Don Hahn]

Actually, that was a big deal going in, so. Yeah, listen, it's a smart thing to do. I didn't think it needed a press conference. I thought the, the press release was enough. The other thing that kind of bothers me too, what's up is that, you know, we're different, we're special. I, I gotta start winning, you know. Been a while. Okay. I love the fact they don't have the names on the back. And I'm not gonna say these aren't special, but the brand is special. But you know what? Brands also change with the times. There's a lot of other brands, too, that look a lot different now than they did in 1976.

[Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And you just got to evolve. You gotta understand that.

[Rosenberg]

But him talking about the pride in the brand. I know and how important and what it means to them and all that stuff does matter.

[Don Hahn]

But you're not above it, though. Like, don't, don't start acting like you're above it because you're not above. What about that, I know the Yankee brand is special and they make more money than everybody else, but you know what? Like, to walk around like, we can make our own rules. No, you can't. You got to conform. Clearly, you're. Everybody's a lot closer. And some teams have now passed you in their ability to be able to spend money, their ability to win championships a little bit more often. I, I, I, like I said, I respect not having the name on the back. I respect that they don't have 17 different uniform combinations like The Mets do, and a lot of other teams do. I, I, I totally respect the brand that they have. Yeah, Class, that also means that. But that doesn't mean that you have to completely walk a different line and say that, you know, we, we're the leaders, everybody follows us. And yet there have been teams that now have passed you that don't have silly convoluted policies and stuff. So I do like the way they conduct their business, but you gotta be able to show the ability to evolve.

[Rosenberg]

Well, and that's certainly what they tried to do today. 800-919-3776. How much do people really care about this? Let's go to Ben in the East Village. Hey, Ben.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up, guys? So I started off by saying, very happy that Yankees baseball is back. I wanted to comment on the beard policy change. I was a fan of the no beard policy in the past. Want to premise that. I understand why they might change it if they're not getting the players they want because of it. But I do want to say I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture here is that the sponsorship logo being added to the jersey in the previous years, that paired with this now, it all adds up to the Yankees cache losing that cachet. And just, I think this is very evident to a lot of Yankee fans that the brand is kind of changing now.

[Rosenberg]

Well, the brand has changed, but what do you mean by losing cachet? Because they did what every other major league team did, which is get a sponsor to pay for a patch on the jersey. That's it. Everybody's doing that. That's a whole, that's an MLB policy. So they were like, okay, we can sell a patch on the jersey. We're going to do it. That, that, that and the beard thing, I don't think are related. You think they're related?

[Caller]

I think they're related because it's like, it's, to me, it's all in the same category as, like, the having the names on the back of the jersey. The Yankees always in their own special little box where they're kind of exceptional than the rest of the league, but.

[Rosenberg]

They'Ve always been a team about making money. The patch is about making money. It's not about, you know, it's not about tradition. It's just, you know, we have.

[Don Hahn]

It did, but we can do that now. But don't you think about. I think Ben's right that we don't put names on the back. Right. But we'll put a sponsor on our Jersey, like it does seem a little.

[Rosenberg]

Well, the names on the back don't make you any money. The sponsor does, by the way. Before there was a sponsor on the jersey, it was, it was, it was. What was Nike. What was before Nike? What was the other brand? Like there was always a little thing and then the Major League baseball brand was on the jersey. Like there was always something on the jersey. It was never a blank jersey with just a number. And the human sacrifice.

[Don Hahn]

They can have Yankee Stadium be sponsored.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But they've decided that, you know, they want to keep a Yankee Stadium, so they are willing to make some financial sacrifice.

[Rosenberg]

That one I'm surprised about.

[Don Hahn]

Well, they've been able to find like Madison Square Garden. They've been able to find loopholes, just name everything. Like this is the Chase Lounge.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Don Hahn]

You know, so they found other ways for the revenue share. But listen, Madison Square Garden means something. Yankee Stadium means something. So, so there are times where they pick and choose. But ultimately the Yankees were special. Not by the way they treated players, not because their players all ended up as angels. They were special because they won all the time. That's what made you special. And then you don't win as much. And now the cachet you're talking about changes a little bit.

[Rosenberg]

The last impression too, you have of the Yankees, of that tradition. And I'm talking about like his start was Mantle and Maris and they were both fresh faced, clean shaven. I mean, Maris had a buzz cut. Right. Like he, like that was the bygone era, the last of it. And I think there are some people that kind of romanticize about that era and so you'd love to. Oh, like I liked it. Again, it's all like as if you're in the military. But you know, the late 90s teams, not, no one had beards obviously, but there was still to me a very fresh face kind of team. Andy Pettit and Jeter, like very young faced guys.

[Don Hahn]

Right, right.

[Rosenberg]

And there's some. There was an appeal, I think, for a lot of fans about a team that had that sort of fresh face look to them. Bernie Williams, am I wrong?

[Don Hahn]

Well, you could look at it as fresh face. Another person could look at it and say, boy, it looks very corporate and stuffy.

[Rosenberg]

Well, you win.

[Don Hahn]

Now I got choices, right. Roger Clemens went to the Yankees. Why? Because he wanted to win a championship. If Roger Clemens played today, he'd have a few other choices of places to go to win a championship that maybe wouldn't be the Yankees. Yeah, that's what I'm saying they're all based on winning. You know, the Montreal Canadiens are a tremendously respected franchise in NHL circles, and their 24 championships are more than anybody else in the National Hockey League. Don't win1 for 30 years. You're everybody else. Yeah, you know, the Dallas Cowboys, that star that looks. Don't win a Super bowl for 25 years. Hey, that star still means something to people. But you know what? There's other teams that are there or maybe even to surpass them. It all comes from winning. And even though they've been consistent and they've been really good, you know, you don't win a championship in 15 years, 16 years, then that can. And you've seen the Dodgers win two and the Giants win three, it changes things a little bit, that's all. It's okay.

[Rosenberg]

No, no change. Don't be afraid to change. I just feel like the way people are reacting to it, that caught me off guard and the press conference also, it's like, wow, it's that big of a deal. We have more calls to get to. We certainly will. Everybody does seem to want to sound off on this as well. This and the Four Nations. Boy, a lot of passion behind it. We'll make sure we talk to each and every one of you along the way. But coming up, we have enn and right now, Don has a message from Mazda.

[Don Hahn]

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[Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Game Time is brought to you by Tell the Mardu Irish Whiskey because when it's game time, it's telly time. Knicks back in action tonight. They got the overtime win last night. First game back from the break over the Chicago Bulls at the Garden. Then they flew to Cleveland and they're going to take on the league's best team, the best record in the league. Anyway, the Cleveland Cavaliers coverage immediately following us right here on 880. And that's coverage begins at 6:30. We have a 7pm tip tonight and if you haven't heard, Josh Hart already ruled out again for this game. He has a sore knee. OG Anunoby will be a game time decision. Once again, he did not play last night after being a game time decision. Mitchell Robinson also not expected to play either. That's game time. Brought to you by Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended, triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew honey during tonight's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. 800-919-3776. Back to the calls. We go on. Of course, the four nations and the Yankees changing the policy. You can now have a beard and be a Yankee. How about that? Paul in Woodbridge, your thoughts?

[Don Hahn]

Hey guys, just want to say that this is just the biggest sign of weakness from a baseball team I've ever seen. I mean really, it's like this ain't the team that George, that George ran. It was all about, you know, showing class, having certain standards. The fielding errors that are taking place, they're just lowering their standards. This is just a desperate move. It's like 8 o'clock at night in a bar and it's like you're not talking to the average girl. But 2:00 in the morning, they're running around trying to find her. What the, what is this with the Yankees? It's so upsetting. But what, but what's the policy like? Like, does it make any sense anymore? I mean, it does. It makes sense just in the fact that these players could have some sort of held a standard. The fielding ain't a standard. I don't think it's. Now, now you're breaking into all the other stuff. Like what, what is the standard of a beard? I just think it's a bridge too far at this point. People like wearing beards. The Vice President, United States has a beer. Like, how can they say, I know what Paul's saying, you're not allowed to have beers.

[Rosenberg]

I know what Paul's saying here. Paul, correct me if I'm wrong, what you're saying is, is that standards for the team continue to fall off, meaning that the way they play in the field, the fielding errors, the base running errors, that's a standard that has never was accepted before. And now it just seems to happen too much and so the more of these things that start to show, the more you start realizing, and I said this before, this is not the Yankees we grew up with. This is just different now. Everything about them is different now. The logo is the same, but what they are is not the same. They don't outspend their opponents anymore. They can't do that. It is not the power of the Yankee and the power of the pinstripes that it used to be. And one of these things is now saying, well, you know what? We're not even gonna hold the standard of beards. Which I think is silly, but I get what Paul's saying. It's just another example of how Yankees aren't the Yankees anymore.

[Don Hahn]

I don't. But this is where I'll disagree with you on Paul. I don't think this is an example. I think it's an example of we've set a standard that I just think is unrealistic. We need to evolve away from this now.

[Rosenberg]

I don't disagree with you.

[Don Hahn]

Names on the back. You know, they haven't completely sold their soul, but what they realized is, hey, it's 2025. To hold players and to hold an organization to a standard that was set back in 1976. He wanted to honor his dad. I get it. I can respect that. But at the same time, is that a standard that you really. Is that a hill you really want to die on? Now? I. Hey, as far as no accountability for the manager and general manager and. And not being able to bust it down the first baseline and. And committing errors, I get all that. Paul's right. But this, I don't think falls in that category. I think it's, hey, let's get with the times. Let's evolve away from this. I don't think it's a sign of weakness. It's a sign of, hey, you know, we've got to modernize our way of thinking.

[Rosenberg]

Does IBM still make their. Make the employees wear white shirts? Wouldn't that IBM, Right? Wasn't that whole thing.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that was. That was a thing. And some businesses don't allow personal effects to be on the desk like pictures of your family. Yeah. Hey, Lou Lamarello's got a.

[Rosenberg]

Well, he still has the beard policy.

[Don Hahn]

He still has the beard.

[Rosenberg]

Nick Letty had to shave and he looked terrible.

[Don Hahn]

But, you know, but he waved it in the playoffs because he knew how important it was to the players. So the players were able to grow playoff beards. Right. Scott Niedermeyer couldn't have a beard, but then he had that big, ugly white one when the Devils won the cup in 2003. So he showed flexibility. But just because Lou does it. But that's also a guy that's in his late 70s. Different standard.

[Rosenberg]

Well, in the 5:00 hour, let's do this. Because I don't want to make this about beards and not beards because we all agree, like, it is kind of silly. And we know, like, you know, people have. Have beards. I mean, this just. It's a part of the world. You have one, don't.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Rosenberg]

It's just, you know, and some people look good in them and some people like me don't. I tried one during COVID My wife said nope. And that was the end of that, you know, and I didn't like it either. But, you know, you always try things, but it's part of just life. It's not that crazy. But when you take it from the aerial view of the New York Yankees and what a lot of the fans. And this is older fans. And you know what? I'm tired of people saying, well, the old fans don't matter why I've put in the most freaking time. I should matter how I feel. Like, don't mock me because I say I'm a Yankee fan since 1964. Don't mock me for that because I put in a lot of time.

[Don Hahn]

I've got a retort to that. But five o'clock hour.

[Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter, weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

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