Hour 2: Bill Pidto & Monica McNutt

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Bill Pidto & Monica McNutt (June 10, 2026)

Podcast: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Guests: Bill Pidto, Monica McNutt, Steve Novak
Theme: NYC Sports—Knicks NBA Finals anxiety, the psychology of fandom, media narratives, and navigating objectivity as a broadcaster.

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Episode Overview

This lively episode, recorded during a pivotal night in the Knicks' NBA Finals run, brings in MSG’s Bill Pidto and analyst Monica McNutt to dissect Knicks fever, discuss fan and media nerves, the Wembanyama effect, officiating, and what makes this New York run so compelling. Conversations flow between high-stakes basketball analysis, behind-the-scenes broadcasting realities, and the unique pathos of New York sports fandom.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Knicks Anxiety and the Weight of History

• Theme: Knicks fans and broadcasters alike are grappling with rare hope and deep-seated nerves, marked by a decades-long title drought.
  • Bill Pidto admits: “My fandom is not being repressed tonight... I really want them to win. This is so important for the city, the Knick fan, the franchise.” (01:08)
  • Monica McNutt: “A lot of Knicks fans still are very, very confident. One game shouldn't change that confidence. But I'm sorry, three one is gargantuan compared to two two... It would be folly, I think, for a fan to still be 100% confident if you drop two in a row at home and it's a two two.” (01:35)
• Alan Hahn connects: It’s different for Knicks fans—Yankees and others have success memories, but Knicks reality is years of struggle, heightening emotional stakes now. (02:24)

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2. The Psychology of Fandom: Knicks vs. Other NYC Teams

• Peter Rosenberg (03:11): Shares that Boston media views Knicks fans as unusually positive for such a success-starved franchise, lacking the fatalism of, say, Jets or Mets fans.

  • “They don’t seem to have the fatalism…that is very unique for a team that has not had success in 50 years.”

• Pidto & Hahn discuss that recent streaks and the team’s likability have altered the narrative: “Thirteen straight [wins]…and the way they play and act. They’re really likable guys from top to bottom.” (15:12)

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3. Officiating, Wembanyama, and NBA Politics

• Hahn raises the “face of the league” dynamic around Victor Wembanyama, suggesting the NBA protects its stars:
  • “The league will always side with him…not even getting any penalty from what happened in Game 3…he’s kind of being coddled by the NBA right now.” (04:39)
• The panel discusses missed calls, NBA PR tactics (post-game officiating statements), and the realistic reluctance to suspend a Finals star.
• Ref chatter: “I like Zach Zarba. They rotate every night…But you watch them, I just don’t like the way some of these guys conduct themselves.” (06:54)
• Rosenberg shares fan conspiracy theories: “My wife was on the phone…about how now the league wants it to be a long series. That’s why the fouls—” (05:34)
• Monica and Bill (05:55, 06:04): Acknowledge officiating mistakes, but stress the need for better Knicks play, not excuses.

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4. Homecourt, Crowd Energy, and NBA Finals Economics

• Discussion about the shift in homecourt advantage and how MSG crowd energy differs in the Finals:
  • Alan Hahn: “The noise usually in the garden starts at the bowl and goes up. It was almost as if it started at the top and cascaded down…It sounded different.” (10:13)
  • Conversations on ticket prices highlight how the Finals attract a different, wealthier audience—sometimes less rowdy, more reserved. Ticket resales reach up to $100K, fundamentally changing the vibe. (11:03)
  • Peter Rosenberg: "[A friend is] basically committed to, you know, $10,000 to $12,000 for this series. And this is someone who I know does not make a ton of money. So if you have a ton...you're not willing to spend $40K, $50K? Of course." (12:21)

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5. Game Analysis: Turnovers, Momentum, and Adjustments

• Focus moves to technical aspects—Knicks’ turnovers were uncharacteristically bad in Game 3, creating anxiety about their ability to recover and control momentum.
  • Bill Pidto: “The nature of the turnovers were bizarre…Haven’t seen that all year long.” (08:31)
• Monica and the team analyze the differing impact of home vs. away games, the evolution of crowd influence, and how modern players seem less affected by road games. (09:13)
• Essential for Knicks: "They've trailed in every game so far...that third quarter was obviously such a key and curious moment for that team as well." (13:06)

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6. Emotional Broadcasting: Objectivity vs. Authenticated Fandom

• They candidly discuss how regional broadcasters walk the line between professionalism and open rooting:
  • Monica McNutt: “If you played it neutral, I think [fans would] be offended.” (18:28)
  • Alan Hahn: “I've been thinking about if they win the championship...What are we supposed to do? You know what I mean?” (18:32)
• True fan energy and visible emotion from the booth are accepted, even expected.
  • Bill Pidto: “I think there are two things…the way they play and the way they act. They're really likable guys…they're humble, they're approachable.” (15:11)
  • Alan Hahn: "That's why you feel the way you feel today...this group kind of deserves it." (15:48)

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7. More Stories: Knicks Culture, Special Moments, & Behind the Scenes

• The team discusses how the city's basketball culture infuses the Knicks’ identity.
  • Peter Rosenberg: "You have a Dominican player and a Puerto Rican player. The Brunson history with his dad...so much New Yorkness storylines to this team." (16:11)
• Fun moment: Steve Novak goes to the wrong park for a Knicks viewing party—illustrating how involved and, occasionally, chaotic the whole scene is. (19:35)
  • “He goes to Madison Square park instead [of Central]. He had to get a city bike to hustle to Central Park for the pregame show.” (19:56)

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• “My fandom is not being repressed tonight…I really want them to win. This is so important for the city.” —Bill Pidto (01:08)
• “You feel [the] frustration…the crowd’s frustration is palpable in this building.” —Alan Hahn on MSG crowd (09:24)
• “The league will always side with him…they’re coddling Wembanyama right now.” —Alan Hahn (04:39)
• “The sweeps are over, and it’s okay. Like, we’re in the finals…you have a 2-1 lead.” —Steve Novak (27:35)
• “This team is diamonds, not broken pipes. They’re going to rise to the occasion.” —Monica McNutt (27:36)
• “When things get tight, Jalen Brunson is the guy.” —Monica McNutt (29:13)
• “How can you not root for Jalen Brunson? Karl-Anthony Towns is such a likable guy and open and honest.” —Bill Pidto (16:01)
• “The Knicks need to play better, play harder and play tougher.” —Steve Novak (33:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nerves and Knicks fandom: 00:47–02:24
• Are Knicks fans truly optimistic?: 03:11–03:43
• Wembanyama and "face of the league" officiating dynamics: 04:08–05:55
• MSG crowd & ticket madness: 09:13–12:21
• Turnover woes/Analysis: 08:31–09:13
• Knicks culture & city unity: 15:03–16:21
• Media and broadcast objectivity vs. fandom: 18:01–19:06
• Novak’s funny park misadventure: 19:35–20:27
• Wembanyama – dirty or just aggressive?: 33:20–34:44
• Are the Knicks in trouble?: 38:17–38:34
• Caller: “NBA creating a monster in Wembanyama?”: 41:24–43:46

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Tone and Style

The tone is conversational, passionate, and quintessentially New York—full of affectionate Knicks angst, dry wit, and honest assessment of what’s at stake. The hosts and guests balance humor, fandom, and real X’s-and-O’s talk, making the episode accessible and engaging for hardcore and casual listeners alike.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an engaging mix of Knicks Finals analysis, emotional honesty, and inside-the-booth discussion. Hahn, Rosenberg, and their guests embody the city’s blend of sports pain and hope, all while keeping it real—on and off the air.

Memorable Moment:
Monica McNutt—“This team is diamonds, not broken pipes. They’re going to rise to the occasion.” (27:36)

Essential Listening For:
Any Knicks fan, NY sports enthusiast, or anyone interested in how fandom mixes with professionalism at the highest stakes.

Transcript

[Narrator]

The Stanley Cup Final on ABC is more than a quest for the Cup. It's 134 years of putting it all on the line and the heaviest 35 pounds ever lifted. It's broken curses and broken hearts. But for those chasing it, it's everything. The only question is, who will take it? You just have to watch the Stanley Cup Final, presented by Geico on ABC and the ESPN app.

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don, Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Monica McNutt]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Monica McNutt]

He's been such good luck. I don't think they've lost whenever we've had them on.

[Alan Hahn]

That's why I had to text him

[Monica McNutt]

and we didn't have him on the last.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that's why I texted him.

[Monica McNutt]

Is the great Bill Peto.

[Alan Hahn]

What's happening, Peto?

[Bill Peto]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, here we go. Here he is.

[Bill Peto]

I'm nervous.

[Monica McNutt]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Bill was telling me. We were just chatting here before we started. He just said, I'm feeling really nervous about that. Why? Is it because of the situation or because of things you saw on Monday?

[Bill Peto]

I don't know how you guys are. Don, when you call the Devils. I know, Peter, you know, Alan and I obviously invested in this. You're a big Celtics guy. I am. My fandom is. Is not being repressed tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But is it. But is it over because you love them or because you think something's off?

[Bill Peto]

I really want. Personally, and I know we're supposed to

[Monica McNutt]

be down the middle.

[Bill Peto]

I really want them to win. I really. I really. This is so important for the city, the Knick fan, the franchise, It's. This is a big deal.

[Monica McNutt]

And I'm glad you admitted you're nervous. A lot of Nick fans still are very, very confident. One game shouldn't change that confidence. But I'm sorry, three one is gargantuan compared to two.

[Bill Peto]

Two.

[Monica McNutt]

Two two. It's on. And it doesn't mean. Same old Knicks. They're going to blow to just two. Two means that now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Serious.

[Monica McNutt]

It would be folly, I think, for a fan to still be 100% confident if you drop two in a row at home and it's a two two.

[Bill Peto]

Right. So are you like a big Pats guy, Peter?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. No Pats.

[Bill Peto]

I. I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sorry. I'm a Commander's fan.

[Bill Peto]

Okay. I love me to the fan base that has won multiple championships. I wonder if, like, if they've won three and five years when they're back there. What the angst level is? I don't know. I. I haven't really been in that.

[Alan Hahn]

It's a great question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I'm. I'm with you. But for me, it was my commanders in the championship game two years ago. It's a sick feeling when you've never.

[Alan Hahn]

I say it like this because I'm a Yankees fan and that it's almost like you get greedy because you want to see them. Just. You don't want to see the run end. Right. So, like the Yankees in the late 90s, it just always felt like, like 2001 was a frustrating loss on so many levels, but because of the timing of it, there were too many things in the world to worry about. But then, because they've only won one since then, it's gone back to this sense of, like, they've got to win one. Like two years ago, when the Yankees were in the World Series, that felt a little more urgent, like, they got to get one. It's been too long. This is different, though, Bill, because, like, look, we've joked about this. We've seen some really bad basketball. We've been through a lot with this franchise over the last 15 years together. And to be this close. Right, That's. That's why I feel what you feel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So let me. Let me ask you guys a question, because I was asked this. I went on Toucher and Hardy in Boston this morning, and they asked me about the Knicks fan base. And. And one of the guys is a Jet fan. So he didn't understand it fully. He said, how is it that this Knicks fan base is so positive? They don't seem to have. From the outside. And I think he's right. They don't seem to have the fatalism of the jets or the Mets. They really believe they're going to win this series. And that is very unique for a team that has not had success in 50 years.

[Bill Peto]

Well, they had won 13 straight. I think that helps. And when you look. When you look at the dominance from what we've seen, I think that impacts how we all looked at it. Now, if you look at. You say, okay, the series is what it is. If the Knicks had gotten a split in San Antonio and won game three, they're still up to one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you're feeling great.

[Bill Peto]

The narrative's different.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it's because the streak ended. It's because it's always the last game that. That sticks with you.

[Bill Peto]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And now it's, of course, the specter of, well, wait a minute. If they don't get this game. Now we have a whole new series and the whole thing flips. But I. I was talking to the guys at the start of the show, Bill, about something that, you know, Wembanyama clearly is going to be the face of this league.

[Monica McNutt]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

You could see it. The player he is, the personality that he is, the charisma he has, all of it. You know, it's coming, and there's a little part of me. And this goes back, of course, years, the Michael Jordan stuff, where it's like the darling of the league can't touch him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

The league will always side with him. And Wembayama not even getting any type of penalty from what happened in game three. You gotta feel like, at worst, the league said to him, listen, going to be watching you now. Don't act up. The first thing you do. We're going to overreact to it because we gave you one, you got away with one. He's also got the elbow situation. He had the blue blowing off the media in the conference finals. Not even talking to the media. They didn't find him. They gave him a warning for that. A warning. So it feels like he's kind of being coddled by the NBA right now. And that's. That is the fatalism. When you're a Knicks fan that been through enough with Reggie and with Michael, you know, all the different things that go on, you tend to start feeling like they're against us. The league doesn't want you to win. They always seem to favor the other team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I did, and I will say I did hear that, literally. My wife was on the phone with a friend of hers, another New Yorker, and I just hear them and they're going off about how now the league wants it to be a long series. That's why the fouls were. And I was like, okay, they lost game. I don't know about that.

[Bill Peto]

I'm so naive. I. I think I'm. I'm still very naive about all of this.

[Monica McNutt]

Me too.

[Alan Hahn]

I agree.

[Bill Peto]

That's not the case.

[Monica McNutt]

The.

[Bill Peto]

The referee. What's the guy's name? Alan. I'm blanking. The ref, the director of officiating there was on. He came on and said, our refs missed that. We had two guys watching a ball.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, Right. So you had to. Bill. No, like. Like what he did was how you sort of, like, do good pr, go out, admit the mistake, and then say, you know, we're still looking at it. And as if, like, we're really put. We're taking this seriously. But then they don't do anything. Now I understand why it doesn't help the Knicks. It doesn't change the game. They're not getting free throws or anything for it. And the one point, if they gave him a flagrant for it, the one point, what does it matter? You know, they're not going to suspend him. You know, that's not going to happen in an NBA Finals. Not a player of that get that caliber. So my assumption, knowing how things work in the league, is that somebody talk to him and let them know we're now watching you. You got our attention. You got to stop that stuff because the next time you do, we're going to overreact to it. And that's why I think tonight, this officiating crew, which is a good one,

[Bill Peto]

I like Zack Zarbon. Yeah. And his crew, like, I know Zach Zarbon, but they're not officiate. I just like, you know, after you've been around some of these guys, and not that I'm around them, but you watch him. I just don't like the way some of these guys conduct themselves. How they act, how they go to the mic, the arrogance. I don't think Zach Zarba is.

[Alan Hahn]

But I do think they'll. They're. You don't think they've been watching film on the series and then they saw that. They know everybody watched that, so they're aware of what happened, which means they'll be aware of anything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, Alan, it's a different crew from Monday?

[Bill Peto]

Yeah, they rotate every night.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Every night's a different. And this is the Zarba crew.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Steve Novak]

Let me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me ask you this, Bill. I brought this up earlier to Allen. Allen said the other night when I had some concerns and I thought I frankly kind of liked San Antonio on Monday, Allen said, they got to show me that in this series they can win a game late. The scary thing, and Allen conceded this yesterday, they showed it. They did not look. That moment did not look too big for San Antonio at all.

[Bill Peto]

I would say this, though. Castle, as great as he is, is not often a knockdown shooter. And he hit the key three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Bill Peto]

I don't know that he's always going to do that. And De' Aaron Fox hit the key two with the spurs up three with 12 seconds to go to make it. Spurs up five. He's been not so good. I don't know if that is something that they can do consistently. As great as Castle is, he's not a consistent shooter. And Fox, his shooting percentage in this series is not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But in some ways that could even worry me more that in the final moments of a huge game, they actually went above and beyond. To me, it just showed. I think they like playing here. I think San Antonio may be more comfortable with the craziness of New York than they were protecting home court.

[Bill Peto]

You know, we've talked about this. I'm sure you guys have the, the turnovers. The Knicks committed 13. Not a huge number. But the nature of the turnovers were bizarre. Like it'd be the equivalent of Allen, you know, running to the left and I'm just throwing right behind him. I mean, it happened three, four, five times. Haven't seen that all year long.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Monica McNutt]

It is weird and it's easy to blame, like the security. It was a weird feeling, but it happened. Don.

[Bill Peto]

The beginning of the third quarter too.

[Monica McNutt]

Yeah, I just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right when they're used to it already.

[Monica McNutt]

Right. And the other discussion we had too is that, you know, it used to be like 10 years ago. Forget it. The home court was. You didn't win games on the road. So what is your theory on why it seems so much easier now than it was in the past to win it on?

[Bill Peto]

You know, I don't know what it is. Someone was saying something about the Knick crowd. If you are the opposing team and you get off to a good start start, you can kind of deflate the Nick crowd. I don't know what you.

[Alan Hahn]

You feel. You feel their frustration like that's. The crowd's frustration is palpable in this building.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I've been there for this before. I was at game seven at Indiana a couple against Indiana a couple years ago. I've been at big games in that building tonight. We'll have that. If it's a rough first half and let's say they get down 14, 15, which not out of the realm of possibilities. We've seen the Knicks get down and come back play plenty of times. You will be able to hear a penny drop in that building. It will get very, very tense. I have seen that from this fan base. They can get their heart taken early on. They will build and come back as the comeback ramps up. But it is. I can. You're going to be able to sense tension if it's a slow start for the Knicks tonight.

[Bill Peto]

I also wonder if the fan who is able to access these finals game is different than the typical fan.

[Alan Hahn]

It was different. I was describing the crowd this way, Bill. When I was in my usual spot early in the game waiting. They were waiting while we. For Something to happen because it was seven. Oh, in a blink. And they were down ten in a blink. Right. But you know, there were some pushes. But anytime something significant happened, a mage shot, whatever. The noise usually in the garden, starts at the bowl and goes up. It was almost as if it started at the top and cascaded down, as if the lower bowl realized, oh, this is important, we should cheer it. It. The roar was above the floor, not at floor level. I don't know if that makes sense.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course it does.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what I heard. And that didn't sound right. Like it sounded different. So I wonder if tonight it'll be different because there'll be some people there that obviously Monday there were people that normally wouldn't be at a game like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I saw a video moving around of people getting interviewed. A really good idea, actually, for a social media video guy. Just going to people. How much do you pay for these tickets online? And I mean, like, you don't believe it's real? I mean, there are people who said no. They spent a hundred thousand dollars. Is that, Is it.

[Alan Hahn]

That's. That's correct. So a friend of mine.

[Bill Peto]

But is that, is that legitimate?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, I can't, I can't attest. It's.

[Alan Hahn]

Those are not face value. Those are, you know, but I think,

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think some of the resales actually happened.

[Bill Peto]

So, I mean, I love this team, but I wouldn't pay 100 grand to go.

[Steve Novak]

Right.

[Monica McNutt]

But if you're.

[Bill Peto]

I listen to Mike Breen, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no, he's great. I'm fine at home today.

[Monica McNutt]

I guess if you're worth 6, 7 billion dollars, I guess 6, 7 billion.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That, that there aren't a lot of those. No, but these are people who may have $30 million and it was worth it for them to spend. Right.

[Monica McNutt]

Or they're just lying because they want to see.

[Alan Hahn]

A friend of mine got in line to get the tickets that were released as face value tickets. He was able to get two in the three hundreds. So you're.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And what do you spend?

[Alan Hahn]

You're up in God's country. And he said they were 3,200 each.

[Steve Novak]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, but, but. So let's do the math on this for a second. We have a friend. I'll leave him nameless, but you can figure out if you've been listening to the whole show all week who he is. We have a friend who does fine. He's certainly not rich. He spent 4,000 to go on Monday for one.

[Bill Peto]

How many seats?

[Peter Rosenberg]

One, 4,000 on Monday. This person Is also gonna go tonight. I don't know what he's. What he paid for tonight. And he will go to six if it happens. He told me that. So he is basically committed to, you know, 10 to $12,000 for this series. And this is someone who I know does not make a ton of money. So if you have a ton of money, I'm talking about a ton of money. And there are kids out here, love this team, are willing to spend four grand and they got nothing. You're not willing to spend 40, 50 grand. Of course there. It's wild. I couldn't imagine it either, but it's happening. And that will, that will lead to the sound you were talking about. Alan, you just spent $100,000 on tickets. I'm sure you're a big fan. You may not be screaming at the top of your lungs, though.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I'm curious to see what the atmosphere is going to be like.

[Bill Peto]

Got to get off to a good start. Yeah, guys. Got to get. Got to get off to a good start.

[Alan Hahn]

They've trailed in every game so far. They were down 11 after one in game three, which is not good. They've always had to push back, but yet halftime, they always have the lead. Half time, they always seem like they're in control. That third quarter was obviously such a key and curious moment for that team as well.

[Bill Peto]

But I also understand the spurs point coming to town is that, hey, we could have won game one. We could have won game two.

[Monica McNutt]

Legitimate.

[Alan Hahn]

No, totally.

[Bill Peto]

These games have gone right down to the bottom.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was the point I was making Allen a couple days ago. Everyone was looking at it as half full. The Knicks played really poorly and they won both games. Not really poorly. They didn't play their best basketball and they won both games. There was another way to look at that if you were San Antonio, which is we could have easily won both of those games. At some point, it's going to start falling the other direction. And in the third quarter, it really did. And that was the part that scared me about San Antonio. When the Knicks survived their first punch in the first half, got a seven point lead at halftime. They had them on the precipice of the knockout punch.

[Bill Peto]

And then they started so sloppily in the beginning of the second half. I was again, mistakes with the turnovers that were really things that we had the type of turnovers we haven't seen all year.

[Alan Hahn]

Bill, what do you think so far of like, we've done a lot of coverage. It's been great. I mean, we're on every night, whether it's a game or whether it's the off night. We're doing stuff as well. The amount of response this team is getting and how unified, like it really does feel now. All the histrionics and the silly fighting and the streamers that are creating drama. Put that aside what happened the other night. But I'm talking about just seeing everywhere you go, you have a T shirt in your hand that you probably picked up on the street somewhere, but just seeing everywhere you go how much everybody has been into this. And it's not just now like, we've. We've obviously been following this the whole way, but what's that been like? Because we've. We've been doing this for a long time with, with this team. What has it been like just to see. It feels like everybody in this city is into this.

[Bill Peto]

Put it this way, guys, I got my daughters and my wife texting me during games. I mean, that.

[Monica McNutt]

That's.

[Bill Peto]

That's an unprecedented.

[Alan Hahn]

They don't watch.

[Bill Peto]

They. No, they do now.

[Alan Hahn]

They do now.

[Bill Peto]

But they have. They have not.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Bill Peto]

I mean, they. For all they know, I haven't had a job all these years. You know what I mean? No, but my point is, is that every invested in this. And I think there are two things and I thought about this. The way they play and the way they act. They play the right way most of the time. And they're really likable guys from top to bottom. Jalen and Kat and OG and Mikhail and Josh Hart, the bench guys, they're incredibly easy to like. They're humble, they're approachable. You know, I'm not around them, Alan, as much as you are when you travel. Monica's been around them a lot more. But they're such a nice group. And I think that really people also have become aware of that too.

[Alan Hahn]

And if, like, that's what makes you feel like if there's any group that's more deserving, you know, like that. That's the. That's why you feel the way you feel today.

[Monica McNutt]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Is because like, you know, and this, this group kind of deserves it. They deserve to get this. And you want to.

[Bill Peto]

How can you not root for Jalen Brunson? Carl Anthony Towns is such a likable guy and open and honest. He is. And OG Anunoby, every one of these guys.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And we talked about the cultural things that are so cool. You have a Dominican player and a Puerto Rican player. The Brunson history with his dad. There's just so much New Yorkness storylines to this team.

[Bill Peto]

No, absolutely. I think that has a lot to do with people buying into this and also the fact there hasn't been a title one since 1973.

[Alan Hahn]

Now you guys might be shocked to hear this. On the postgame Show After Game 2, we always get a player and we're allowed to ask questions. We also get Monica to come on and we, we each take a turn, ask a question. So I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but sometimes I can be loquacious.

[Bill Peto]

And what's, what's a Han reputation among. Amongst the.

[Alan Hahn]

I know it's shocking.

[Bill Peto]

Talkative.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He gets those words, as we like

[Alan Hahn]

to say, it's them words.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, he gets the words.

[Alan Hahn]

So, so I, I was, I wasn't sure if Monica could hear us because she'd kind of turned like she couldn't hear. So I'm like feeling a little bit and then realized she could hear. So now I'm asking her a question. And it was definitely long, right? She answered it. She actually goes, I think that's Han. It must be because it's a long question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow, she caught it early.

[Alan Hahn]

It gets better. Novak's next. Novak begins his question saying, I'm not going to be as long as our partner here goes on for even longer than I know the question.

[Bill Peto]

Like, Don, what do you think that you got as a. As professionals who have done this for years and years, what do you think the ideal time is for a question in terms of time on the clock?

[Alan Hahn]

It.

[Monica McNutt]

It's gonna sound quick, but like 10 seconds, 12 seconds.

[Bill Peto]

Okay, so Alan and, and Steve each went 30, 35.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You guys talked.

[Bill Peto]

Wait, they clocked in the control room.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, just so you know, 35 seconds on TV is like a minute 30 on radio, right? It's usually even shorter and tighter on

[Monica McNutt]

people that wonder why. Because normally the longer the question, the shorter the answer, right? And the shorter the, the, the question, the longer.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Monica McNutt]

And, but listen, that's the thing that makes this so special, especially when you're talking about a regional television network, is that everybody watching everybody on, they're, they have a rooting interest and it's okay, right? Waving the pom poms is one thing, but I think everybody knows and I think wants Bill you to be emotionally attached to the team. So if you're doing this on, on ESPN or abc, you can't do it different story. But I think every single person turning

[Bill Peto]

it on, fans, they expect us to be fans.

[Monica McNutt]

Right? And if you played it neutral. I think they'd be offended.

[Bill Peto]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, how do you feel that think about it though? A win like, like, because I've been

[Bill Peto]

thinking about like if they win the championship. I thought about how do we. Come on.

[Alan Hahn]

That's exactly what I'm wondering. What are we supposed to do? You know what I mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you got. I'm funny that none of you know. No, we haven't gone through it, Peter.

[Gil (Caller)]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I can tell you how to

[Bill Peto]

talk about Alexei Schmidt in the post game show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But so I know. I guess I would think at that point you are allowed to as the regional home who's on the network that is directly affiliated with the team. There could be some serious pomp and circumstance and fun at that moment.

[Alan Hahn]

I, I, I was already told I can't bring a champagne bottle.

[Bill Peto]

Did you ask?

[Gil (Caller)]

No.

[Bill Peto]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm going to.

[Monica McNutt]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know that's going to be the answer.

[Alan Hahn]

I know what I'm going.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How about a cigar? How about an unlit cigar?

[Steve Novak]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm wondering about the Seagar. I don't know. We'll see. But still like it. It is something like it's fun to dream about. And the fact that we are this close to it does make both of us, I think a little nervous. Steve Novak is a good friend of our show. He's come on with us a couple of times. I know you have a great story about Novak that you can share about what happened the other night.

[Monica McNutt]

We love.

[Bill Peto]

You know, you get to know some of these guys. Steve is a very likable, goofy. He's goofy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've only met him a couple times. I thought he was great.

[Alan Hahn]

We love him.

[Bill Peto]

So listen now he played New York. He knows the geography of the city. The watch party is at Central Park.

[Monica McNutt]

Yeah.

[Bill Peto]

With Alex Monaco.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Bill Peto]

Steve's supposed to go there. He goes to Madison Square park instead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What? He confused Central Park. Yes, Madison.

[Bill Peto]

And he had to get to. He rented a city bike to hustle from Madison Square park to Central park in time for the pregame show.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean we're talking story. How many blocks is that from. From 24th to 59th.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. To 59th Street. That's a, that's a hike.

[Bill Peto]

That's a true story now. And he remember he lived here. I don't know if he lived in the city.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just don't know why anyone. If you're, if you have confusion, the default would be you confuse something for Central Park. Not that you confuse Central park for any for Bryant park, for Madison Square park. It's Central Park.

[Monica McNutt]

I guess if you're not really aware that Madison park seemed like the more logical place to. Oh, maybe that's what viewing party than Central Park, Right? Because of the name. Yeah, but don't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, But Central park has a bumpkin.

[Monica McNutt]

What do you. I love the guy, but come on, right?

[Alan Hahn]

He was like, he won't let him live it down. He will not let him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now he walked out, he walked out

[Monica McNutt]

of the cornfield and just started.

[Bill Peto]

I think Monaco had. Alex Monaco had at Steve on Find My Friends and he noticed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He, he see, where's this guy going?

[Bill Peto]

It's like we got a situation going the wrong way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got you guys, though, to the point of the local broadcast and how much people love you. This is quite funny, I think. So we've been trying to come up with good guests to have on the show. And last week I said, oh, let me hit. A good friend of mine is the famed Oscar and Grammy winning producer Mark Ronson. And Ronson goes to a lot of the games, loves the niche, real fan. So I said, he lives down here. I invite him to the studio. Ronson comes to the studio, we do a great interview. And afterwards he comes up to me and he goes, oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed. I didn't realize this whole time that you work with Alan Han, you know, and that's, that's how big, that's how big a Knicks fan he is. And what you guys mean to all these people who sit at home and, and watch. It's. It's such a cool thing.

[Alan Hahn]

Not great for our show, though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, no, I. Listen, I know I didn't have any doubt that he's never paid any attention to my. I know him from the music world, but I was still happy that he was a fan of Al.

[Alan Hahn]

It's funny. Yeah.

[Monica McNutt]

And you know, this is kind of get geeky from behind the scenes for me, but like you just said about how you guys are going to react, you're openly rooting for the Knicks. How are you going to react if they did win and there's nobody to offend? Right. Because there's not a large amount of net fans and they're on a different network. How would it be if the Rangers were to have won in 2014 or in any of those two years they went to the, the third round for you in particular. I don't know what your rooting interest is for hockey. I assume that. Yeah.

[Bill Peto]

But you know what? Gian owns the host, so I wouldn't

[Peter Rosenberg]

have to worry about that, you know, that's true.

[Monica McNutt]

But, you know, just being around, like, because there's a. The Islanders and the Devils are on the same network.

[Bill Peto]

Right.

[Monica McNutt]

You might actually get Devil fans watching

[Bill Peto]

Devils win a championship. How are you handling now? It's different because you're actually calling it as it happened.

[Monica McNutt]

Well, I won't be because.

[Bill Peto]

Right, good point. Maybe you're on. Maybe you're on the post.

[Monica McNutt]

But if I'm like we talked about with Mike Breen, like, Mike Breen can't break down and get crazy because he's

[Bill Peto]

the national guy you come on. But on the studio show after a

[Monica McNutt]

Stanley cup, for some reason, you know, God forbid, Matty Lachlan couldn't do the radio the day that they could clinch and they said, don, can you, can you do it? I, I gotta be honest. I think my attempt would be to be neutral, esque, I guess. But I don't know in that moment, because it would be the first time that I'd be calling something that has an emotional. Like with the Rangers, being with them for 20 years. I wanted them to win. I wanted to call Gantt.

[Bill Peto]

Were you on the radio in 94? No, it was Howie, but I, I called.

[Monica McNutt]

Yeah, I called game one of the Stanley Cup Final in 2014 with the,

[Alan Hahn]

with the Kings and the Kings.

[Monica McNutt]

And I was disappointed that, that Williams scored and not a Ranger. But that's kind of selfish. Who wants to call the losing goal? Who wants to call for a losing. But when the Devils were losing games, I, I, it bothered me more because that's where my heart always was.

[Bill Peto]

Right.

[Monica McNutt]

But, you know, I don't know how it would be if I called a championship, but I think my attempt would be to keep it together.

[Steve Novak]

Right.

[Monica McNutt]

Even though I'm not sure the fans would want that.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I don't. And I think you should almost lose your voice. And that's okay, because gushing, calling it with power and energy is different than gush. Gushing as a, like sounding like a fan gushing. But, But I think for Mike, I think the whole country would understand if he had a little twins of emotion in the final seconds of what could be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I agree.

[Alan Hahn]

Championship. No one would hold it against him, I think, because everybody knows his.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It would be interesting and sort of touching. And I don't think he'd do it.

[Alan Hahn]

And he won't go over the top either.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I, I, by the way, I think he'd give nothing because I think that's how professional he is. But I think it would be really neat and touching. If you heard a little bit of a crack, right? A little, you know, because we know what it means.

[Monica McNutt]

It's I, I don't think you do

[Peter Rosenberg]

it, I don't think you do it

[Monica McNutt]

yourself to do it. Now if you guys interview him after on G. Right it might be different situation but we might be on till 3am that night.

[Bill Peto]

That's fine.

[Monica McNutt]

Let's all hope that we have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's hope that night.

[Bill Peto]

Let's get to that night, get a win tonight.

[Monica McNutt]

Well, thank you, Bill peto.

[Bill Peto]

Thank you guys.

[Alan Hahn]

7:30 on MSG pregame starts and of course right after the game is over with, the minute the game's over, you go right to us back on MSG to get full post game coverage.

[Monica McNutt]

Monica, thank you so much, buddy. Safe travels back to the garden. Monica McNutt's up next. DON ONA ROSENBERG, ESPN New York as

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Monica McNutt]

Nice to have her back. Last time we talked her last couple of times. I believe the Knicks are on the road. But it's nice to have you back. Not just because of the cake, but we do genuinely enjoy your company.

[Steve Novak]

Well, apparently everybody but Rosenberg because where's he at?

[Monica McNutt]

Well, listen, you know, time is kind of, you know, just a suggestion, recommendation, really steadfast thing. But I wanted to ask Bill this, but I will ask you maybe better because you played the game. I heard so many fans say, I don't know what to do with myself. It's the first time in six weeks that the Knicks lost a game. How do the players respond to something like that when they 13 straight wins, literally a month and a half without losing? How do you think they slept that night?

[Steve Novak]

The way you framed it at the end? What's up, Rosenberg? I think that they put it in perspective. I do think they slept well because the nature of a series mandates that you get your rest. Right. I think they probably were more frustrated with the things that they could control in terms of how they showed up defensively more than anything in that ball game, and, of course, the turnovers. But, guys, we came into this series, and I think most of us that have been following this team closely and allowed our basketball IQ to lead and not our heart, the sweeps are over, and it's okay. Like, we're in the finals. You still have a 2:1.

[Monica McNutt]

You don't have to win four.

[Steve Novak]

Yeah. Like, you have a 2:1 lead and game four is on your home floor tonight. Now, tonight proves to be an opportunity that is filled with pressure. But I believe this team is diamonds and not broken pipes, so they're going to rise to the occasion.

[Alan Hahn]

What is the one thing that you're watching for tonight? And is it early or is it late?

[Steve Novak]

Okay, I know you said one, but I'm gonna give you two.

[Alan Hahn]

All right?

[Steve Novak]

One is Victor Wembayama's energy level. Because I do think that the two days off between games two and three mattered in terms of how he was playing. And then two is, where is Carl Anthony Towns on the floor? Like, what is that gonna look like? Is he in a position to facilitate at the top of the key which everyone has fallen in love with? Is he even being aggressive if he's not being guarded by Victor Wembanyama and trying to take advantage of the matchup with Kelton Johnson? I do think, and the numbers bear out, that when Carl Anthony sounds, plays well, it means good things for this team. And I don't know who to blame, but the facts are he didn't have a good game in game three, and the results were in favor of the Spurs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, and he's yet to. As he talked about, he's yet to have a fourth quarter at all. Yeah, but he. But, but, but the difference is in games one and two, he made his presence felt earlier.

[Steve Novak]

Correct? Correct. Like, I get the fourth quarter start stat. It is one that jumps out at you and makes you scratch your head. But I also am like, Context is important on this particular one, right? Like arguably, then if you said, wow, Jalen Brunson's been really good in the fourth quarter and not so great the other three quarters, like, okay, like, context on that one is a little bit more blatant. But you put the two together and that sort of solves your puzzle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do you think that it is problematic at this stage for who the Knicks have become? If you just see the number of shots Jalen Brunson took in game three, would you have said this might not be an ideal game?

[Steve Novak]

Do I just see the number of shots or do I see the efficiency?

[Peter Rosenberg]

How about both?

[Steve Novak]

I think if I see the number of shots, I'm like, all right, so JB had to do his thing. If I saw the efficiency, I'm like, oh, so JB was baited into doing his thing because everybody else was standing around. I think I don't see any assist in this column. You know what I mean? But here's the thing, y'. All, and I get it. Knicks fans are so basketball savvy, high basketball iq. Yes, this team is better when the ball moves and everybody is engaged. But the very real reality is when things get tight, Jalen Brunson is the guy. So was JB dribbling the ball out the air as or the air out the ball as my colleagues on ESPN or discussing all morning, or were the guys standing around? This is where I got tripped up. One cart before the horse and egg before the chicken this morning because I was very tired. But which one is which? All of it culminates in a game that looks sluggish and full of low energy and poor defensive effort from the New York Knicks. As much as we can dissect what happens in the half court, they've averaged 15 points off of turnovers in the first two games. In Game 3, they had seven. Their defense wasn't doing their thing either. And frankly, in this run, this team has been at its best when they can turn teams over. That's where Mikel Bridges gets his energy. That's where OG Anunoby looks otherworldly. That's the energy Landry Shammy gets in. And so all of those things get then snowball into them. Knocking down threes, lots of energy in other places on the floor, in the half court set. But every time they turn the ball over the other day, especially early in the ball game, it was a dead ball turnover, which on the one hand is a positive because at least the spurs weren't running out. But at the same time for them, if they did get a turnover, it was a dead ball turnover, which means they still had to set up inbounds, let the spurs defense set up like there was nothing easy. And they need a mix right of easy because the half court set versus this very stout defensive team. See, what I did there with Stout is hard.

[Peter Rosenberg]

She's on fire today, folks.

[Alan Hahn]

The second quarter was that quarter where it looked like everything looked right. Force, three turnovers, five points off turnovers. If you do the math, if they did that in every quarter, that's usually what they do. So the second quarter was them, it was the third quarter and the first quarter that wasn't. And that kind of was the problem. But I just want to ask you what is. What do you think about Wembanyama through three games in this series?

[Steve Novak]

I think he's getting better game to game.

[Monica McNutt]

Yep.

[Steve Novak]

And that is concerning for me. Y. I think the first game I would chalk up to. I legitimately questioned, while I have enjoyed this season, that he wears his emotions on his sleeves and is not apologetic about that. I thought he was too emotional for game one and it backfired. And that is just a byproduct of this incredible talent being in a 22 year old body with a first time to the finals. Right. Game two, I thought they began to level out, but the Knicks veteran poised down the stretch, leads the way. And then you do have a little bit of a collapse in terms of brain smarts late in game two. Game three. Oh, it looked like this group had completed leveled out in my mind as far as being able to regulate their emotions and understand that a lot of their power was on the defensive side of the basketball. Like they forced the issue. As much as we were upset about officiating, they was like, well, they can't call at all. And they couldn't. And so whether it's somebody pressing up on you defensively pressing up on you in the full court, you got to meet force with force. And the Knicks never rose to the level of matching the force that the spurs played with defensively in game three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I agree with everything you said. I wonder whether we would have viewed sort of the emotional evenness differently had they called the flagrant on him in the moment, turned it over, foul shot. It changes a lot.

[Steve Novak]

I think it, it would have changed a lot in my mind. And I think that flagrant obviously is the one that we've seen on a loop in the last day. But I also think they missed a big call late where carlizing town should have been on the free throw line with an opportunity to cut the lead

[Peter Rosenberg]

to the de' Aaron Fox block or.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Steve Novak]

Without the clock moving now, some Tyler said to me, because I said it in the game or not in the game, talking about it during the break, Tyler's like, well, JB hit a shot anyway. Yeah, but the shot clock, the clock is still moving in your under three minutes trying to come back. Right. It's different to get some free throws and have a chance to set up and reset. So Zach Zarba, as I understand, is he tonight who seems to be the anonymous poll NBA favorite. Let's roll. Listen, I'm not one to harp on officiating. I do think they missed that flagrant. But I also think the Knicks need to play better, play harder and play tougher.

[Monica McNutt]

You know, 0 for 9 to start the second half from 3 is not ideal for them. We're talking to Monica McNutter weekly spot here on Don on and Rosenberg. Is Wemby an immature player or dirty

[Peter Rosenberg]

player or both or neither?

[Steve Novak]

Human. He's human. He's got some of both. I mean, listen, Josh grabbed Devin Purcell's ankle. Is Josh dirty?

[Monica McNutt]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he's aggressive.

[Steve Novak]

He's a human. Right. Like, it takes a lot for me to label a guy dirty every now and again. You would still catch me defending Draymond Green for a long time, but I can't do that any longer. But it takes a lot. It takes a lot for me to get to dirty.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How about.

[Alan Hahn]

But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But Wemby does. He's willing to mix it up, which. So was that he's scrap. Well, I haven't watched enough tape to

[Monica McNutt]

know if you're dirty.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Monica, we'll get it to another day. But no, he's certainly scrappy. And it's one of the things that endears him to me. But he does. Like I was saying to Alan, Alan, we had a long conversation about how the league probably had a conversation with him this week about, don't put us in this spot where we might have to be forced to risk suspending you. That is not something anyone wants to see happen in the finals. And you wonder if they decided to not issue a belated flagrant, but said, hey, dude, chill out. We're not doing this. But what I said to Allen was, hey, I don't work for the league. My job's not for him to be perfect from a fan standpoint, he must see tv because not only is he a fan, phenomenal player, I believe if he stays healthy, maybe a top five player who's ever lived when it's all said and done. But he's also willing to get dirty 100%, which is a lot of fun.

[Steve Novak]

100% like the full on competition period at the end of the word, right? Like no fluff. Like I am competing at by any means necessary. Usually within the parameters of the game. But the parameters are always a little fudgy, little gray, you know what I'm saying? Like it's the NBA Finals. So I. No, I'm not willing to call him dirty. I don't think I have enough of a sample size to say dirty. I also have watched some of our Knicks guys, you know, make questionable place.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But now I want to go back and watch some old Georgetown Women's day, you know what I mean?

[Alan Hahn]

I already told you, you know the hierarchy there. Ewing, Iverson, McNutt.

[Bill Peto]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

All right, again with that in mind, what is the appropriate response for the Knicks in this game when it comes to him and physicality?

[Steve Novak]

I think what you saw in game one, first of all, you, if you make somebody uncomfortable, that's the first thing to be in physical. You're gonna have to get that, that guy out of the paint somehow, right? You're gonna have to go take your opportunities to demonstrate your physicality within the perimeters of the game. If you set a screen and your elbows are up, well, there's, you should set a screen, right? Like if you, if you are shorter than him, but hit him in that lumbar part of his spine like it's not your fault he's 7 4. Like go set a good screen, right? Give me a clean bo out, bump a guy on a cut. Like there's so many things within the parameters of the game where you can still show your physicality. But the Knicks to me, did not play downhill in game three. So I think the answer to tonight is to look far more like game one. Now I will give the spurs credit. They are a different team from game one as well. So let's go iron on iron. Let's see what it looks like now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If, if, if somehow, and I think it's unlikely, for all the reasons Allen you pointed out earlier, I think it's unlikely Wemby does anything as aggressive as, as he did with the shove the head shove to the little brother head shove to Jalen Brunson. But if something was to happen like that tonight, I think, would you expect, would you expect a Knicks player though to jump in immediately? And is that something you need to do?

[Steve Novak]

There are only two Knicks, two and a Half three and three on a good day, there's only three Knicks players that I actually expect to ever mix it up. Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson and Jose Alvarado.

[Monica McNutt]

That's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds right.

[Monica McNutt]

Right.

[Steve Novak]

So, one, who's on the floor when this unfolds? Two, how blatant is it? Or is. How blatant is it or not? Right. But I think there's been enough conversation about it. The thing about the Jalen play, as we watch it, even Stefan Castle's like, whoa. Like, what's happening? Like now. Mind you, if you look a little further down the play, Keldon Johnson and Carl Anthony Towns are all tied up also demonstrating the physicality of that one. But to me, it was like so out of the way. Like, Jalen was trying to get around Victor with Miyama to get to Castle, I think is how this is unfolds. It was just so blatantly egregious. Right. And so I think everybody's on their P's and Q's as far as that one. Both the crew officiating crew and the Spurs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How do you feel?

[Alan Hahn]

They both just looked at me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I've talked a lot, but I'll keep going. How are you?

[Alan Hahn]

I already.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait.

[Alan Hahn]

I already told the story about how.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, you talk a lot generally.

[Bill Peto]

You're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm gonna get my words today.

[Alan Hahn]

I told the story. Monica called me out. I thought she couldn't hear us, so I'm. I'm stretching to see if she can. She hears.

[Steve Novak]

That was your logic. Okay. I just wanted to be clear.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want to be clear. We work in an enclosed studio with headphones on. Even when he's very aware that we hear him, he still uses lots of words. Okay, I just want to be clear.

[Steve Novak]

I mean, he wants to show off his vocabulary.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I appreciate it, but are you nervous if you're a Knicks fan. Let me. Let me be more specific. You're professional, for God's sake. If you're a Knicks fan, how nervous are you in the first half of this ballgame? Do you have a great fear of this thing going two, two? Or are you confident enough in this team that even if they do lose a tough game two, game four, I should say you're confident they can go to San Antonio and grab at least one more plus one back in msg.

[Steve Novak]

I am paid to cover this team. I am an analyst. I am fearful if this thing gets tied up. Okay, just point blank, they got to go to San Antonio twice and take two from a team. That will mean they are growing in confidence. That's tough. That. That is tough. Not saying that it's impossible, but that's going to be tough.

[Monica McNutt]

You've accomplished a lot on the court and behind the mic. How cool has this whole thing been for you?

[Steve Novak]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gil (Caller)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Steve Novak]

On it. So, like, first of all, we have cake every time I'm here.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry.

[Steve Novak]

Spoiled.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sorry. Cut it. But you already take your picture, yet

[Monica McNutt]

you didn't take it.

[Steve Novak]

Yeah, we took a picture. I already ate the Starks cookie. The cookies are great. I will tell you this. I hosted an event last night celebrating women at the NBA Finals. It was great. We honored Doris Burke and Lisa Salters.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was beautiful. Wow, that's fire.

[Steve Novak]

We're leaving. Tatiana, bro. Got a fire reservation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Whole. Oh, at Tatiana. Lovely.

[Steve Novak]

Love it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Big fan.

[Steve Novak]

We're leaving. And these group of cops, I heard them recognize me, but I was like, all right, make sure my guests are straight. Whatever, whatever. Then they call me again and they go spurs and six. It took me a minute to register. I was like, boo. Like, who are you talking to?

[Gil (Caller)]

Boo.

[Steve Novak]

Like, don't do that. Don't antagonize me. But it's been really cool. The other night when we left the game on the train with all the fans, like, my whole little train section, we're having a conversation. What happened? The officiating. Are we worried?

[Gil (Caller)]

Blah, blah, blah.

[Steve Novak]

Like, it's been such a vibe. I'm so thrilled for this fan base. I'm so thrilled for this city. It's been a pleasure to be a part of it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. The timing is pretty cool from, like, your career ascent with when you got the color analyst job for the Knicks and now them. Yeah, I mean, listen, you could have gotten that job 10 more years ago in 2009.

[Steve Novak]

Wouldn't be as much fun.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, and the old only Lynn sanity would have been the only thing that ever happened.

[Steve Novak]

Y' all noticed in my origin story, I was like, guys, cheer up. It's gonna turn around. Sure it did. But I.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, in the end, there's a story will be told. It was Monica that showed up. And then the sun started to edit.

[Steve Novak]

You know, one Jalen Brunson arrived at the same time.

[Monica McNutt]

Great point. That helped, too.

[Alan Hahn]

Monica east, that's all you need. The Big East.

[Monica McNutt]

Enjoy this. We'll talk to you next Wednesday.

[Steve Novak]

Thanks, guys.

[Monica McNutt]

And that was the Monica McNutt report, brought to you by Calandra's Bakery. Calandra Bakery. Just four simple ingredients and still made by hand since 1962. Available fresh daily at your local supermarket and BetMGM. Own the moment and own your moment. Make it legendary. Download the BETMGM app today. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem called 1-800-GAMBLER.

[Alan Hahn]

Why don't you let Monica cut the cake?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you know I'm in a better spot.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, she's gonna eat the cookies.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm trying to help her.

[Monica McNutt]

Peter's feeling it. He's in a groove.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm in the groove right now. A lot of people on hold.

[Monica McNutt]

1-800-919-3776 at 5:00'.

[Steve Novak]

Clock.

[Monica McNutt]

We'll talk to Charlie Ward. We've got a list, we've got ENN and we take you up till 7 o' clock. And then it's Pat O' Keefe getting you ready for game number four from the Garden spurs and the Knicks. Don Ana Rosenberg live from Stout on ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Monica McNutt]

Let's go. Gil in Brooklyn, you're on ESPN New York. What's up, Gil?

[Gil (Caller)]

Me and you are the basketball purists. No, no offense, Don and Pete Island. The NBA is creating a monster because the stuff they're giving this dude as far as calls and things, how they're letting us in play is going to create a problem down the line, especially because of his aggressive attitude and when things don't go his way. I'm not even talking about the files that he committed over the over the playoffs and whatnot. You can look at his personality and see how he is. And if the NBA continues to allow him to get away with stuff, they're creating a monster that is going to be a downtime problem for the NBA players and he's going to wind up catching a bad one. When he runs into a team that has a goon that he's going to do something. Not even purposely, but he's going to do something too. And they're going to take it as a purpose act and they're going to lay him out and then deal with the frame.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If he ends up in a time machine, if he stumbles into a time machine and plays against the 06 Pistons,

[Gil (Caller)]

I'll walk out with you with that one, Pete.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There aren't that many players to check. I agree. I do agree, by the way, if he were to like do something else. Completely egregious.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, there's guys, there's There's Dylan Brooks, there's Isaiah Stewart. I mean, there are plenty of couples. There are a few in this league that are gonna, you know, like, not with me. And they don't care.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The caller's not wrong. You have to set a precedent at some point.

[Alan Hahn]

What Gill is suggesting, I think, is, are they enabling him? Meaning the NBA? Is he being enabled? Because he is clearly going to be. They don't have a next guy after LeBron and anybody that we thought. All of them have whatever flaws, and none of them seem to want that. He seems to want it. And so they really gonna. They're gonna need a marketable young star who's compelling, who's gonna get ratings. He's.

[Monica McNutt]

All of that. And, and that.

[Alan Hahn]

And, and people. I'm sorry, Don. I just. The thought that they might be enabling him a little bit here, because they have not. They've slapped his wrist at best.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the fact that they went back and watched this and the whole ESPN replayed that guys a thousand times on national television, and they were like, yeah, no, no, we're. We're fine.

[Monica McNutt]

And it's, it's.

[Alan Hahn]

It's.

[Monica McNutt]

That's how reputations are built. And then the history of sports, you're not going to be able to name maybe on one hand dirty players with a dirty reputation being the face of the league. Think about basketball. You know, it's Jordan LeBron, did they get physical? Sure. But they weren't dirty players. They didn't have a reputation of being dirty. Look at hockey. It's. It's Sidney Crosby, it's Wayne Gretzky, it's Mario Lemieux. There was an artistry. The way that they played. Couldn't. Hey. Could they throw an elbow now and then, of course, commit a penalty? Sure. But they didn't have a dirty reputation. All you have to do is say to them, listen, be whatever you want to be, but if you're going to be dirty, you're not going to be the face of this league.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I just want to be. I want to push back because. And I'm not saying that you're saying he's. Is that already? But the word dirty is tough. The, the lamelo ball play at the beginning of the playoffs, that was a dirty play where you're. You're potentially injuring someone. The Brunson play, now, the elbow was bad.

[Alan Hahn]

Unquestionably, elbow was dirty.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Jalen Brunson play, I wouldn't go as far. I would say it was overly aggressive and stupid. It wasn't. He wasn't risking injury for Brunson. He was being a bad guy. Like, he was just being that guy.

[Monica McNutt]

A bad guy. Dirty player, whatever. I mean, he did that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And hockey, when you use the term dirty player, talking about someone who bored someone, someone who high sticks, you're risking real harm.

[Monica McNutt]

It's a different sport. There's not too many things you do on the basketball court that's going to injure somebody.

[Bill Peto]

Hockey.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But even Draymond. Draymond with the. Draymond with the. For lack of a better word, nutshots and things like that. We. We haven't. We don't know yet if that's. But he also 7 DNA.

[Monica McNutt]

So when he does that to Brunson, you could hurt him. You're a foot and a half tall caller. There's got to be a certain responsibility you have being that much bigger than everybody else.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's on the table, right? It's on the table. But I'm saying I just don't think we're there yet. If you.

[Monica McNutt]

If he continues to get away with stuff, it continues to be a problem, then he's not going to be the face of the league. And I don't think he wants that. The spurs don't want it. The NBA doesn't want.

[Alan Hahn]

No, the NBA doesn't. You know why? And it's not the dirty thing. It's more of like the arrogance again. And I think you're not an appealing star if you carry yourself that way, right? Like, I think that's something that can happen where you become more villain and less appealing. And I'm not saying because I get it. I have been enamored by him all season. I've talked about the spurs on national TV a ton, about how good this team is. This is not. Because we're in the finals right now. Has nothing to do with that. But it is something. As I've watched him in the playoffs, you know what can happen if you get that reputation from other fan bases, that instead of them being in awe of your talent and respecting how you are as a sportsman, instead it's like that elbow to Naz Reed that I don't like that. Like, let somebody else do you dirty with not you. You know, he won't talk after a bad loss because he's embarrassed. So he doesn't talk to the media. Like that kind of stuff. You start to put. You start to become more of somebody that is easy to hate. You're the one who said it, Peter.

[Steve Novak]

No, no, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I've seen become by the Way I've seen the little dangerous place. It's been in dribs and drabs since he started.

[Alan Hahn]

It's in him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's in there. You know, let's not. Let's not forget though, let's. Before Kobe became warm and fuzzy. Kobe, you're right. There was. There was villain.

[Alan Hahn]

Kobe, you're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not pleasant. He was not affable. He was not liked by other players.

[Alan Hahn]

League didn't need him at the time,

[Peter Rosenberg]

but the league didn't need him quite the same way.

[Monica McNutt]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

LeBron James, you had other things going on, right?

[Monica McNutt]

Yeah. If there. If LeBron was 10 years younger, they wouldn't be having this conversation. Wembley, they wouldn't need him.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Monica McNutt]

They need WEMBY. Because LeBron might not come back. And if he does, he's 41.

[Steve Novak]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So let me ask you this. If Weama did that to Steph Curry, same exact thing. What is the league doing?

[Bill Peto]

Nothing.

[Monica McNutt]

He's t. No, he's nothing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Unquestionably. The great, great take by you, by the way. You have some icing on your face and I'm a real friend, so I'm

[Monica McNutt]

going to tell you that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a little further up.

[Alan Hahn]

Saving it for later.

[Monica McNutt]

There's one player still, that was the face of the league, that was a dirty player. I'll bring that up. Charlie Ward's gonna be joining us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Charlie Ward likes to mix it up.

[Bill Peto]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

He wasn't afraid.

[Monica McNutt]

We're gonna fit in an ENN and a list before 6:30. You know why? 6:30 is when we're gonna hand it off to Mets baseball. Excuse me. To Mets baseball. That was yesterday. Today is seven o' clock and it's game four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got my. You just changed my entire perspective.

[Monica McNutt]

That's tomorrow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Monica McNutt]

Well, not tomorrow. Tomorrow's. The Mets are a day game. It's been away. You know what, Dodge?

[Alan Hahn]

Friday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Friday. Friday.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. We get Friday.

[Monica McNutt]

We're out. Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, we're at Plot Deutsche on Friday.

[Alan Hahn]

Friday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm with you boys the whole way.

[Monica McNutt]

There you go, Don on a Rosenberg ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to my Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the

[Alan Hahn]

sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your SP smart speakers.

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[Steve Novak]

Start your free [e-mail].