Don La Greca (2:03)

I like it.

Peter Rosenberg (2:04)

Well, I don't want to give up too much information, but apparently if he wants to have like a big week bacchanal leading into her first birthday, he can take that whole week off.

Bob Wischusen (2:14)

Do we get invited?

Don La Greca (2:16)

It's a different world. It's a different world, Bob, So you obviously have seen the news involving Aaron Glenn and also Lance Newmark. Let's not leave him out. The general manager candidate. But both at Florham Park. This is the first time they brought in somebody for a second interview for either job. We just had Keyshawn Johnson on who was teammates with Aaron Glenn, and he said, like, he should be the only certainty that they should hire him. Now, how do you feel about Aaron Glenn? This is a guy with obviously blood in the ground, but not experience as a head coach. What are we thinking here?

Bob Wischusen (2:50)

Yeah, I mean, look, you know, I covered Aaron Glenn. I remember him as a player and how, like, incredibly dedicated a pro he was as a player. That seems by all accounts to have only translated to what he's now become as a coach. So I think he'd be a very popular choice. Do I have certainty as to how he'll do? How could anyone have certainty as to how anybody is going to do? Right? I mean, you make the best decision. Decision you can possibly make, pick the best guy that you can pick, and hopefully give him a good team to coach. And, you know, I mean, ultimately they have to get him a quarterback and answer that question one way or the other, whether it's Aaron Rodgers or a new face and a future. But. But having said all that, the thing that I really like, at least the idea about Aaron Glenn, from what I've heard about him, and there's a reason that, you know, he has some other possibilities in the league but came back here for his second interview first, is he's got skin in the game with the Jets. Like, I think that matters to him. And again, it means something. I would be surprised if he got the job at, you know, whatever the introductory press conference was if he didn't say something like that. Right. Like, there was a reason that, you know, for a guy that, when he was here, came pretty close under Bill Parcells to making it to a Super bowl and didn't. That it might mean something to him to come back and do it as a coach. And, you know, for a guy that knows the jets, knows the history, knows the circumstances, knows the fan base, knows their frustration, has been close to it before. To want to come back and be a part of that, I think is great. And I think that says something about him.

Peter Rosenberg (4:38)

Yeah, I think it's. He checks a lot of boxes, Bob. But the one thing, the inexperience is a little scary, especially considering you're taking over a franchise with the history that they have. And if Aaron Rodgers comes back, then the expectations are going to be pretty high, which also could be dangerous. Why do you think they lacked any interest in Mike McCarthy?

Bob Wischusen (4:57)

I don't know. You know, I mean, obviously the quarterback uncertainty, like Mike McCarthy has been at places including Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers, where there was long term quarterback security. They don't have that right here, you know, so maybe they're a little concerned about whether, you know, that would be a, probably a new thing for him to have to deal with. But, you know, I, I mean, I haven't heard anything out of the building that's anti Mike McCarthy. Like no one has said to me, you know, well, that we're exiting that box off. We're just not interested. But it seems like you're right, like they've gone in kind of a different direction. And so, you know, it seems to me like Aaron Glenn seems to be their primary focus now. If Aaron Glenn doesn't work out, will they expand the search and include Mike McCarthy? I don't know.

Peter Rosenberg (5:53)

Well, talking to Bob, which is in his weekly spot here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. All right, let's get into the games that we saw over the weekend. It's really amazing what Washington's been able to accomplish here. I think everybody was kind of high on Jaden Daniels, but just how taken aback are you that he just seems to pass every test? Rookies aren't supposed to do this and it's not like they're laden with talent. And listen, Kingsbury is a really good offensive coordinator, but I'm just floored that he's been able to get this team to a championship game.

Bob Wischusen (6:22)

Yeah, who couldn't be, right? I mean, coming out of the year, you know, a couple years ago when it was, you know, watching college football, trying to formulate, you know, everybody, and I'm around college football all the time. So heading towards the draft, people are asking, what do you think my top three quarterbacks were? Jaden Daniels, Penix and Knicks. I didn't see Caleb Williams up close, but from what I had heard about him and also from what I at least seen on tv, I liked those three guys better than Caleb Williams myself. You know, now he ends up going at the top of the draft. But I always, I thought Jaden Daniels was the most impressive guy that I saw and by a pretty good margin. Now, did I think that he was going to become this, this fast, like basically become the best quarterback in his conference overnight as a rookie play like this and lead a team potentially to the Super Bowl? No, I mean, this has to even be beyond their wildest dreams in Washington. Like, even when you have supreme confidence in a guy and draft him, you're still thinking they're going to be some rookie growing pains. And for the Most part, he hasn't experienced them. He looks like he has just every bit of. It's all good. I got this. I'm playing at LSU on a Saturday afternoon against Mississippi State, and we're good because I've got that level of confidence, and that's. That's the way he plays in the NFL on the road to the playoffs. It's. It's unbelievable.

Don La Greca (7:56)

The one scene, Bob, that we saw of him on the sideline in the midst of where they had the lead, they had a big lead. It was late, and he looked like he had ice water in his veins. Like, he looked. His face was blank. He didn't look. You know, some guys, young players, they get hyped. They get this talking. Everybody what he just looked like. You just said it. And it's like the perfect way to describe it, as if it was a Saturday game, they're in Death Valley and they're playing Mississippi State. It's just another game. And it's amazing quality to have.

Bob Wischusen (8:26)

And if you were to ask, you know, like, put a list of quarterbacks up around the NFL, and I said, all right, NFC Championship game. You're on the road. You get to pick a quarterback right now to go in and try and win the game. How far down the list you're going to get before someone's going to pick Jaden Daniels? Right? Like, you probably pick Mahomes. You might be picked Josh Allen. I don't know. You probably wouldn't get four or five quarterbacks deep before someone would say, yeah, based on what I've seen, yeah, Jaden Daniels is the next guy on my list. Some people might pick him first based on what they've seen because he's been that good. So, yeah, I can't. I can't believe that. That we're talking about him on this level this fast. I thought he would be a really good NFL quarterback. I thought he'd be a winning, playoff winning quarterback. But this fast, this good? No, I mean, you know, I don't know how anybody could have expected this.

Don La Greca (9:17)

I got to jump in here now because, Don, we have kind of buried this now for well over an hour. And I got to bring you into a conversation, Bob, that Don and I had pre game, pregame, pre show, that I just feel like is a bit too far. And it has to do with his now growing disdain for the Kansas City Chiefs to a point now where Donald, like everybody, this is the refrain of the league just wants them to win. And now they get all the calls and it's all this stuff that is starting to build up. How as a professional broadcaster that you are calling National Football League games, do you see the Chiefs as a team that just is favored by officiating and that's the only reason why they have success?

Bob Wischusen (10:05)

No, that's the only reason they have success.

Don La Greca (10:09)

I mean, some people on the show.

Bob Wischusen (10:11)

They'Ve got the best player in the world.

Don La Greca (10:13)

Yeah, he, you know, starts there.

Peter Rosenberg (10:15)

He's putting words in my.

Bob Wischusen (10:17)

Brady got all the calls and Jordan got all the calls and Kobe got all the calls. Like, does Mahomes get calls? Yeah, he gets calls. But is that the only reason that they win? No, he's told, as you've seen.

Peter Rosenberg (10:32)

Don't. Don't even. I never said half the things he just said. Okay. I don't think the fix is in. I don't think the league has put the fix in. But I do think. I thought Saturday was an absolute joke. All right, now they do get the benefit of calls. I live with it with Brady. We live with it with the Cowboys, Michael Irvin pushing off. It's been going on forever. Okay, I can live with that. But it's definitely been amped up to an extreme level. And I thought Saturday was an absolute embarrassment. And because Mahomes knows it, he can slow down at the sidelines, try to get the call, but it's too much. And I think the officials. There's no meeting, there's no conspiracy theory, but their knee jerk reaction because of the type of player that he is, is to throw the flag that the other players don't get the benefit of. And I'm sor. They are not the best team in football and I think that they catch a lot of breaks. They were also very lucky this year. But good for them. They're a great team. Nobody's arguing that, Bob. But come on. Saturday was a level of embarrassment I haven't seen in a long time. That was a joke. What happened Saturday.

Bob Wischusen (11:30)

Yeah. I would say two things. I would say, a, you being on a program where the guy sitting next to you mischaracterizes what you say. Kind of a lateral move for you. This is something that I would think you probably used to. Right. Like this is that I bring. I mean, you know, something you've been through for not your first rodeo. Number two. Look, I saw, you know, my own eyes in a lot of games this season. Games like games I watched quarterbacks get breathed on and then a flag get thrown because that's where they are in the world of protecting quarterbacks in the NFL. It used to happen with Brady and Manning and all those guys and it is just now continued. It's gone. It's probably on steroids now. You know, be landing with your full on the quarterback when a guy is just being tackled, you know, it's, it is tough to take because you almost wonder why they're wearing pads at some point. Even the old quarterbacks are on social media, what they're watching going, this is ridiculous. Let them play football. I think that is a taken to a bit of an extreme with Mahomes probably also I think that they're so good and he's so good that every time one of those calls gives him 15 yards, he ends up being good enough to take advantage of it and make it a touchdown drive and win the game. So I think it kind of becomes hyper focused with them because they win all the time. So you're constantly looking back at like there are a lot of teams, they'll get a 15 yard penalty following the 15 yard penalty, might take a sack, might take a penalty themselves and end up punting and you kind of forget about the 15 yard penalty with him. It seems like every 15 yard penalty is attached to an eventual score. And so yes, you go back and you magnify that call in your mind.

Peter Rosenberg (13:27)

Of course.

Bob Wischusen (13:27)

But do I think that he is getting calls that no one else in the NFL gets? No. There are guys in the NFL on other teams at quarterback that are at times being brushed and are getting flags because that's where the NFL is and has been for a while at protecting.

Peter Rosenberg (13:45)

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Bob Wischusen (15:33)

Yeah, you. You should get the same two steps when a guy is sliding that you get when you hit him in the pocket. Or the same, like, step and a half that they give you. Because you're right. There are guys that are sliding at the last second. Or the move that he's really good at is bluffing. Going out of bounds. Right? Like, getting close to the sideline, slowing up a little bit, and it's staying in bounds. Or the minute that his toe hits the chalk, he feels anything resembling contact, and he blows himself up and falls and like, crashes into, like, the.

Don La Greca (16:08)

You know, he flopped last night. He flopped.

Bob Wischusen (16:11)

The cabinet on the sideline of, like, Gatorade goes flying.

Peter Rosenberg (16:17)

I think we lost, Bob.

Don La Greca (16:18)

We did. Which was. This was a compelling argument. Do you mind that I brought it up, though?

Peter Rosenberg (16:24)

I'm glad we did, because I think it's a great jumping off point for the next segment. And we appreciate Bob for coming on. Yeah, we lost him there, but you mischaracterized everything. That's fine.

Don La Greca (16:32)

But I did that. But I'm good juicing the topic, but.

Peter Rosenberg (16:36)

Because, again, not that we have a ton of Chief fans. I. I respect Andy Reid. I respect Patrick Mahomes. All right. I respect Kelsey. This is not, like, anti Taylor Swift. It's not that. All right? I'm a fan of football, and I could be sick of teams that I'm sick of. The Kansas City Chiefs. But I thought Saturday really, honestly, Allen took it to a different level and I think it really affected the game. I'm not going to go as far as to saying the NFL wants Kansas City in there, although I could tell you that they didn't want the Texans to advance. Okay, that's not good for anybody's bottom line. But still they were thoroughly outplayed. They still won. I've seen it all year long and I really do hope they get their comeuppance because I think the slidings taken to another level. You saw hurts sliding in the game yesterday and the crowd wanted to call. They didn't throw the flag because then I even text the text thread when there was a play, I think with Jackson where he was kind of pushed out of bounds, they didn't throw the flag and there was retaliation, if you remember. They didn't throw the flag on that either. They kind of let him play. And I'm sorry, Lamar Jackson deserves a lot of give the benefit of the doubt too. He's a two time mvp. All right. But I guess Baltimore's not sexy and Jackson's not sexy. Whatever. Or maybe he's not as intimidating to these officials as the whole Kansas City thing is. I don't know. But that was a poorly officiated game Saturday. Poorly officiated. And I shouldn't have this, this level, at this level of football with this much at stake to watch that kind of garbage. It's awful for sports. It is so good for Kansas City. It's probably better for the league. The ratings will be better. And I'm not pin into the conspiracy theories, but we deserve better officiating than what we saw on Saturday. Saturday was an absolute.

Don La Greca (18:14)

Bob, do you want to have the final say on this?

Bob Wischusen (18:17)

Yeah. You know, I definitely understand Don's rage as far as this concern. He would probably agree as well. But it's not a playoff series. It's not even the playoffs yet. But I was pretty impressed that the NHL suspended McDavid. Yeah, like, I mean he is your Michael Jordan, he is your LeBron, he is your Mahomes and Brady and Peyton Manning, like he's, he's clearly the best player in the league. And you know what? They're like, no suspension, you know, because you're like, you deserve it. Look at the video. You deserve a suspension. I don't know if that player gets suspended in other leagues. And you know, so I'm like, I definitely think it's a bad look. It's a bad look when it, when there's even the appearance that you're giving a call to a player that nobody else gets. I don't know if it's that. I don't buy in the conspiracy theories that the rest they're being told, hey, do what you can to goose Kansas City to the next round. But I do think that, you know that protecting the quarterback has now gone to a place like replay. Replay has gone to a place where it was never intended to go. I think protecting the quarterback has now gone to the point of ridiculousness where it probably wasn't intended to go.

Peter Rosenberg (19:30)

I'm so glad you went to the McDavid point because there's two things before we let you go that, that bother me. First of all, it's poor officiating that Garland didn't get a penalty. That's what forced McDavid to react the way that he did. Because he didn't get a call. He got frustrated and he cross checks him in the neck, but he gets a three game suspension. But here's the hypocrisy. There are people like Bob Stopford, who's the color commentator in Edmonton. Paul Bissonnette's on. You can't suspend Connor McDavid. He's a star. This is what's wrong with the NHL. No, that's what's wrong with the NFL. I don't want the NFL. I don't want what happened on Saturday. I don't want stars to get treatment. I don't want, you know, ball players to get the black like you do with Wade Boggs. I want it to be down the middle. All right? And call it. If Garland commits a penalty on Conor McDavid, call it not because it's on Conor McDavid, but because it's a penalty. And if McDavid cross checks somebody in the neck, give him a three game suspension. Not because he's Connor McDavid, because what he did was egregious. Just call it the way it's supposed to be called, Bob. Don't get into who it is or what games on national television or who needs the game more or who's a bigger star or who makes more money. Just call the damn game. And if you do that, everything's good.

Bob Wischusen (20:38)

And I agree with you. The one thing I would say about quarterbacks is in many of these cases, these officials will tell you that they are calling it the way that they've been told to call it. That this really is an off season league discussion where you have to get some of these pieces of video and the one you're talking about, certainly with. With Mahomes is a good one where like Troy Aikman's like, come on, like he's a runner. He's a runner all the way up until the last moment where he kind of ducks his shoulder and that the slide. And now we're going to call this a 15 yard penalty.

Peter Rosenberg (21:10)

Heat.

Bob Wischusen (21:10)

You can't be a runner up until the last nanosecond that a guy's about to tackle you and then all of a sudden you're defenseless And. But these, the officials have been told clearly and the rules have been written as such that they are to interpret it, that these guys are to be protected. You know, I think beyond the way that originally the idea was like, you don't want quarterbacks hurt. Quarterbacks are the lifeblood of the league. They're the stars. It's what keeps the product watchable. There are some unwatchable games in the NFL and normally when they're unwatchable, you ask yourself, all right, who are the two guys playing quarterback? They want the stars that make the games entertaining and watchable. I get that. But at the same time, you know, there are some pieces of video that they should be putting in front of themselves in the off season saying, guys, come on. Like now we've tilted the pendulum, has swung too far the other way.

Don La Greca (22:02)

I think they're going to reach that point where the idea of the quarterback is a runner once he crosses the line of scrimmage is going to have to start becoming a thing. And if you don't want to get hit, get out of bounds or, you know, but the slide has to be. I think it has to be out of the game at this point because of what we're seeing. The problem is this and we'll leave it here. I love this discussion, by the way, both of you. I just sat back and listened to the two of you go because it was really entertaining. But I just. The one thing I'll add is that we know who makes the rules in the league. It is the owners. And the owners protect their greatest assets, which are in that sport, the quarterback. And in the NHL, it's the stars. Protect my star. He's my money maker. And so that's the problem, is that there is sort of an imbalance when it comes to fairness in rules and understanding business as well.

Bob Wischusen (22:47)

The last thing I would say about the slide is there are guys that slide and slide the right way. Like when I think of how Russell Wilson slides, when I think of House to A slides, when I Think of how, you know, Lamar even slides. Those guys get down with an appropriate amount of room in themselves and the guys that are going to hit them when they're giving themselves up or they don't go down, like Lamar sometimes will take a run on and finish the run and be a runner all the way through the end of the play and a guy tackles him, okay, you tackled me because I didn't slide.

Don La Greca (23:21)

Josh Allen jumps over.

Bob Wischusen (23:22)

Some of the guys like, to me, like, I don't have a problem with a quarterback sliding, using the slide to protect himself. But there has to be more of like a reasonable amount of time into a defensive player to recognize that the guy is sliding. That's a little bit of a judgment call. Maybe the part of the officials, but it can't be. I am already committed to making a tackle and now, now the player is going to start to slide and oh, you just tackled the defenseless player, you know, like that. And with Mahomes, there have been times where it's gotten that close and he still the benefit of the call and that's unfair to a defensive, a defensive player.

Don La Greca (23:57)

It is. But again, manipulating the rules is what a lot of the greats have learned to do in all these different sports. It's just something that we have seen. Bob, fantastic stuff as always. Good to talk to you. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you next week.

Bob Wischusen (24:09)

Absolutely. I'm looking forward to when I'm on in July with Peter the Bob is.

Don La Greca (24:13)

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Peter Rosenberg (24:26)

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Don La Greca (25:19)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter Rosenberg (25:22)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don La Greca (25:24)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. We do have some coaching news in the NFL, Don.

Peter Rosenberg (25:34)

Is it the coaching news?

Don La Greca (25:37)

No, we are still waiting to see if the jets are going to make it official with Aaron Glenn today. The whole idea is don't let him out of Florin Park. Well, I mean so far we don't know that he has left yet so we'll see if something comes up in the next couple hours. No, this is in Minnesota and this is smart. The Minnesota Vikings. This is Adam Schefter reporting, although the Vikings have just confirmed it. Also, Kevin O'Connell has reached an agreement on multi year contract extension. So he was going into the last year of his deal going into the season. But I mean there's, it's hard to argue. A young coach that they brought in has had a bigger impact going back to when like McVay went to the Rams. I mean what he's done in Minnesota and with the quarterbacks he's done it with is, you know, is noteworthy. They have turned into a powerhouse and we'll see now where they go quarterback wise but they're keeping that head coach and it's smart.

Peter Rosenberg (26:27)

See that's the thing when, and I didn't want to go there with Aaron Glenn is that you wish they would think more offense than defense, the jets, because you know, trying to get more out of your quarterback seems to be the winning formula rather than well, let's get, let's get a stud defense. And listen, you need defense to win championships too. I get it. But it just seems like the stories that we're talking about is, you know, look how Philadelphia was able to take a second round pick in Jalen Hurts and, and get him to a Super bowl caliber quarterback or, or what Washington's been able to do with Daniels. Not, not, not that they got something out of a second overall pick but to get it as quickly as they did. The same thing with getting what you got out of Sam Darnold. Like that seems to be how it works in this league and that's what the Giants didn't do with Daniel Jones. I'm sorry they didn't do it. I know he got hurt. I know there were extenuating circumstances but did they get the most out of their quarterback? That's what you need to win in this league more so than boy did you see the way that defense turned around. You know because remember they were the seventh best defense as far as points allowed the Detroit Lions and they then deteriorated because of all the injuries. But they went to the championship game with the 23rd defense in the league as far as points. So it was really getting a lot out of Goff and being outscoring their opponents that got them to where they had to go. And then I thought the coach was a little overly aggressive in the championship game last year. But for an organization that hasn't been able to develop a quarterback, you wish that they would think more offense when they get their head coach instead of defense. Doesn't mean it can't work.

Don La Greca (27:58)

But if you, if you want to look at it, you mentioned Washington. You know Dan Quinn's not an offensive guy.

Peter Rosenberg (28:04)

They brought in Kingsbury did come with.

Don La Greca (28:05)

Well okay, well that's the Aaron like what I'd want to know from Aaron Glenn if he does become the head coach is exactly that. Like don't tell me who you're bringing in for defensive quarter. Who is your offensive guy and what are you going to do going forward and how are you going to develop because that's really what it is about. It is about these. Ben Johnson is going to go to Chicago and he's going to have to figure it out with Caleb Williams and make that all work. It's a young quarterback but you know for Chicago their foundation has always been defense as well and that you have to make sure you have that especially with a young quarterback. So there is a balance to it. But I am curious if you're going to hire another defensive minded head coach is who is coming in to run the offense and that's going to be the most important part of it. But if Rogers is still part of it all, how much does it really matter?

Peter Rosenberg (28:52)

I was a little surprised Key was just so down on bringing Rogers back only because like what's your alternative?

Don La Greca (28:57)

Yeah, yeah, that, that I think he's worried about. Again if Glenn is a rookie head coach the Rogers impact and like the. I don't know what's the right way to put it because I don't want to say he's a negative influence because he's not his. Most of his teammates love him. I think it's more or less like I guess attitude reflects leadership and if your main players aren't bought in, locked in. Right. If your head coach isn't aligned with the most important players, you know a guy that knows I don't have to do this. I don't have to do that. That does affect the culture. I think that is also something you.

Peter Rosenberg (29:34)

Have to worry about because there might be a big boy moment where you got to say, hey, this is my team, my way of the highway. And that's a tough conversation to have with a guy that's going to the hall of Fame and you're a first year head coach. It's. It just is.

Don La Greca (29:46)

Right. Which is why I think that's what Key is mostly concerned with. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good. Here, more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.