Hour 2: Burrow to Giants?

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg — Hour 2: "Burrow to Giants?" (December 15, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode explores blockbuster NFL hypotheticals, centering on whether Cincinnati Bengals QB Joe Burrow could land with a New York team: the Jets or the Giants. The trio discuss the value of first-round picks, player-for-player trades, new regime shakeups, and the ongoing saga of the Giants’ current quarterback, Jackson Dart. Callers weigh in on these scenarios and the hosts weave through NFL storylines, injuries, and “what-if” situations for the road ahead.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Joe Burrow Trade Rumors: Jets, Giants, and the League Landscape

• Initial Setup:
  • The hosts discuss rumors swirling around Joe Burrow’s future in Cincinnati following public comments and the team’s poor performance.
• Jets' Package:
  • The Jets have five first-round picks, making them a leading candidate if Burrow requests a trade (00:42).
  • “Jets have five first round picks...to offer Cincinnati to get Joe Burrow. Burrow could change the scenery. Maybe a Matthew Stafford kind of situation.” — Don Hahn (01:32)
• Giants’ Leverage:
  • If the Giants finish with the #1 overall pick, their ability to offer an elite young QB (Jackson Dart) and the top pick might be more attractive than sheer draft capital.
  • “You can make a solid case that’s better than five first round picks.” — Peter Rosenberg (04:44)
• Comparing Returns:
  • The Giants’ offer could resemble the Carson Palmer-Andy Dalton transition: a proven QB (Dart), plus the top pick in a QB-rich draft (03:43).

2. Does Trading Jackson Dart Make Sense?

• Why Keep Dart?
  • Dart has impressed despite adversity: “He can make every throw … seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders…” — Don Hahn (02:45)
  • Injuries (including concussion history) and inconsistency worry some, but some hosts are “in full bloom love” with Dart:
    • “I think he’s … no, I love him … Like I’ll take him.” — Don Hahn (06:14)
• Would You Trade Him for Burrow?
  • Debate ensues over whether trading Dart for Burrow (even packaged with the #1 pick) is “lunacy.”
  • “You don’t think it’s lunacy to say I should think about trading Jackson Dart?” — Don Hahn (08:04)
  • “I think it’s lunacy. Me, personally.” — Don Hahn (08:07)
  • “Even for Joe Burrow?” — Peter Rosenberg (08:08)
• Callers Weigh In:
  • Multiple callers argue it makes no sense to move on from Dart without a proven elite alternative.

3. New Giants Regime: Draft, Coaches, and Alternatives

• New Leadership Shakeup?
  • Would a top-tier coach/GM candidate force the issue to draft their own QB—specifically Heisman winner Mendoza?
  • “Are you not hiring that guy? Are you going, hmm, tell me more? … Could that scenario exist?” — Peter Rosenberg (02:54)
  • The situation mirrors the Cardinals’ draft of Kyler Murray just a year after Josh Rosen.
• Is the QB Class Even Worth It?
  • “Nobody’s clamoring for Mendoza. Like Mel Kiper said, this is a weak quarterback class.” — Caller (19:39)

4. The Art of NFL Trades and Draft Valuations

• Value of the #1 Overall Pick
  • Some fans want to “name your price” with the #1 pick, trading back for a king’s ransom of players/picks (15:03).
  • Rosenberg tempers expectations: “Right now, I’m not sure you’re going to get the haul you think you’re going to get… This is not Trevor Lawrence. This is not Peyton Manning.” (16:16)
• Jets’ Perspective:
  • Jets could offer a pick for Dart instead of landing Burrow or Mendoza.
  • “Jets have struggled [at QB] over the years, so you’re kind of bolstering the quarterback position a little bit.” — Caller (13:13)

5. Burrow’s Resume vs. Risks

• Injury History vs. Proven Winner:
  • Callers and hosts note Burrow’s injury woes, but Rosenberg reminds:
    • “He’s the only quarterback to go into Kansas City in a playoff game and beat the Chiefs and go to a Super Bowl.” (20:03)
    • “But the injuries are a bit of an issue. But they could be for Dart as well.” — Don Hahn (20:28)
• Win-Loss Metrics:
  • Debate on judging QBs by record: “If they had WAR in football, wouldn’t his WAR be off the charts?” — Don Hahn (20:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Exchanges

• On Dart’s Upside:
  • “He looked like, this is the goods. This guy’s the goods. ... I do think he’s got an amazing future.” — Don Hahn (19:09)
• On Burrow Injuries vs. Accomplishments:
  • “He’s the only quarterback to go into Kansas City in a playoff game and beat the Chiefs and go to a Super Bowl.” — Peter Rosenberg (20:03)
• Trade Hypotheticals:
  • “You remove a piece and you add. ... Addition by subtraction.” — Peter Rosenberg (00:13)
• On Tanking for the #1 Pick:
  • “What’s the difference between winning three games and winning two games? Who cares? I want the one pick so we can get two great players.” — Caller, Dave in the car (15:33)
• On the Old Raiders Vibe:
  • “The autumn wind is a Raider...There’s something kind of really cool about the Raiders. The autumn wind is a Raider.” — Don/Peter banter (23:47)

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Key Timestamps

• Burrow/Jets/Giants hypothetical, trade logistics: 00:42 – 05:47
• Dart vs. Mendoza, QB debate, new regime scenarios: 05:47 – 12:00
• Callers on Jets, Giants, picks, and “tank” culture: 12:08 – 19:30
• Burrow injury/accomplishment split: 19:39 – 21:21
• Caller suggestion: focus on building around Dart, avoid QB trap: 49:46 – 50:52

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Flow, Tone, and Call-in Energy

• The hosts lean into playful, spirited, sometimes sarcastic debate—especially on hypotheticals.
• Rosenberg’s brash optimism and sports talk skepticism clash with Don Hahn’s measured pragmatism.
• Callers bring nostalgia, analogies (Spurs/Patriots/Astros), and local fan passion, pushing the show's energy into impromptu “sports bar” territory.
• NFL storylines, player nostalgia, and even a foray into the Raiders’ mystique—“like Motorhead for the NFL”—give the show a broad, pop-culture fueled feel.

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Segment Highlights (Timestamps)

• Giants/Jets/Burrow multiteam matrix: (00:42 – 08:19)
• Mendoza’s hypothetical dominance/NFL draft dynamics: (09:28 – 12:00)
• Caller Dave: Maximizing the #1 pick for a player haul: (15:03 – 17:33)
• Raiders, Football Nostalgia & The Autumn Wind: (23:40 – 25:32)
• Giants’ internal debate: Is moving on from Dart “lunacy”?: (08:04 – 08:19, 19:39 – 20:03)
• Jets’ endless QB churn, hope or history repeats?: (49:46 – 50:52)

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Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• The hosts believe the Giants should hold onto Jackson Dart unless a generational QB lands in their lap—moving on is called “lunacy.”
• Joe Burrow’s trade value is massive, but injury concerns muddy the waters.
• The Giants’ potential to wield the #1 pick and a young starter may trump the Jets’ draft haul in negotiations.
• The 2025 draft class does not inspire universal excitement—teams may not break the bank for Mendoza.
• NFL culture, nostalgia, fans’ hopes and fears—all drive the non-stop, impassioned debate.

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This hour is rich with speculation, vigorous fan debate, and classic New York sports radio personality—a must-listen (or must-read!) for anyone trying to gauge the temperature on the Big Apple quarterback carousel.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We actually return from break before the hour. How about that? You remove a piece and you add. That's a quote. I don't know. You want to tweet it out? I'm not saying even what I'm referring to. You remove a piece and you add addition by subtraction.

[Don Hahn]

Someone wants.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't know. I didn't know I had that in me until I came out.

[Don Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I hope you write it down because I might forget.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, we. We wrote that one down for sure. That'll be used later.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, we. Yeah, it's not Green Day already, so here's something that I just. I. I've been chewing on, and we talked about it during the meeting. Yeah, you know, we've talked a lot about the possibility of Joe Burrow being a Jet, and certainly it was based off of his comments before the game against the Ravens. Well, Joe Burrow and the Bengals were shut out against the Ravens real bad. A couple of interceptions for Joe. And here's Joe's comments after the game. My comments had nothing to do with Cincinnati.

[Chris Carlin]

My comments had everything to do with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Me and my mindset in football.

[Caller]

Do you think that your mindset this.

[Chris Carlin]

Week impacted your play today, or was it just your play today?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. All right, so he's not happy, but he tried to say, not about Cincinnati.

[Don Hahn]

But it's about football.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's about football. So that's all. That's all got to get sorted out.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. But start thinking like we talked about it last week, and I think there's smoke there if Burrow wants out of Cincinnati. Jets have five first round picks, more than anybody else, to be able to offer Cincinnati to get Joe Burrow. Burrow could change the scenery. Maybe a Matthew Stafford kind of situation. Go someplace else. Go from a team that looks like they've got no chance to win now, notoriously cheap organization. I know the jets haven't won, but they're not a cheap organization. That there might be something there. So the last caller seemed to be a little down on the Giants quarterback, Jackson Dart. And listen, there are some people, Peter Rosenberg included, say, I want to see more, and I'd like to see more, too. But so far, what I've seen, I've been pretty impressed with. So you can make every throw, and that's. That's certainly half the battle when it comes to a Quarterback. He seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders and maybe able to keep that head on his shoulders. Might be something to have a conversation about, but so far hasn't been as big of an issue as of late. But parting ways with Jackson Dart. If you can do better. If the Giants finish with the first overall pick and you hire. You have to hire a new general manager and you love this general manager and you think he's the perfect guy to replace Joe Shane, let's just say.

[Don Hahn]

It'S Mike McCarthy, okay? And Mike McCarthy is going to also buy the groceries. He'll have help in the front office. Mike McCarthy wants carte blanche. He wants full control whether it's your.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Coach, whether it's your general manager. Most likely the carte blanche would come from the coach because I think there are bigger names they can bring in coach wise. You know, John Harbo might get let go in Baltimore. Say, like say, you know, McCarthy becomes available, whatever. And they say to yo, you know what, I gotta tell you with this little time I've had off, I've been watching a lot of Indiana. I think Mendoza's the bomb. I'd love to have him. I think he's better than Jackson Dart. Are you not hiring that guy? Are you going? Hmm, Tell me more. We do have the first overall pick. We can select him if you like. Could that scenario exist or could there be a scenario where we've got the first overall pick and Jackson Dart. Hey, Cincinnati, what if we offered that to you for Joe Burrow? Wow. Would you be interested? Have the first overall pick and a young quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

So this is, this is the Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton thing all over again where I trade away the veteran talented guy who doesn't want to be there anymore. And my next generation starts with a young quarterback who I build with. And that's Dart. A controllable contract.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Because he's first round pick. So that's five years and you only got one year burnt so far. Save some money, which we know the Bengals like to do. Yeah, okay. Like that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then I can do whatever I want with the first overall.

[Don Hahn]

Everybody, this is hypothetical. We're playing the game, but it's not something you would. When we talked to Mike Tannenbaum last week, he really blew my mind when he was talking about how you have to prepare for everything and you consider everything. And that's all we're trying to do right now because this is a real thing. The Giants right now being in position to have the number one overall pick. Too many people are like, the jets should trade with the Giants. And Don, it's almost like you're saying, screw the jets. The Giants could do way better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, because if you're telling me if the Giants end up with the worst record, which is certainly on the table, it is. And they've got the first overall pick in the draft and Jackson Dart, you can make a solid case that's better than five first round picks. Because what Mike Tannenbaum also said is what Cincinnati is going to be interested in in a return is their next quarterback. Right. So. And the jets can't guarantee that those five picks can result in Cincinnati getting the first overall pick. Right. You hope that you can use those picks to trade up, but what if Cincinnati can't? The Giants could offer them Mendoza or you get Mendoza or I could offer you Jackson Dart and a first round pick that you can use on a receiver, on a defender. Go to town or trade or trade it somewhere else. Trade that to the jets to get Mendoza.

[Don Hahn]

Is that more of valuable than a boatload of picks from the Jets? When you consider you get Dart, so there's your quarterback. You get the number one overall pick that you can then trade and flip into multiple picks to help you fill out other areas. And now you've got your young, cheap roster that you love to have in Cincinnati and not a quarterback that's going.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To complain about because the jets can't technically get that in the deal. They can't give them the first overall pick where they can get Mendoza, they might be able to trade to get it right. So. And they don't have a quarterback on the roster. Anybody wants Justin Fields, they laugh at you. But, but so, so with that, well.

[Don Hahn]

Let me ask you first if you're the Giants fan, because the jets fan. This scares the hell out of me. Do you look at that scenario now? I've watched dart enough this season to I'm. I'm in full bloom.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Love.

[Don Hahn]

I think he's. No, I love him like I'm. When people talk about the Giants should trade Dart and pick Mendoza, I would as a Jets fan say I'll take them. Like I'll take him. So are you comfortable in a scenario like that where it's either a coach comes in and says, I think Mendoza long term is the best, is going to be the better quarterback and he plays more of the pocket style, all the things that he does, what he's about, all those things, you don't have to worry about him. This narrative or Dormer 2 which is I'll offer both the pick and this and the kid for Burrow. Are you on board for both or only if it's Burrow? Because, you know, Burrow is a given. Even though no Burrow, technically, Burrow is not a given.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Burrow's not a given. Well, Dart's not a given, right? I mean, nothing's a given. I like what Dart's done.

[Don Hahn]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you get worried about the concussions and stuff, just like you'd be worried about Burrow and his injuries. And Mendoza is a complete unknown.

[Don Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The fact that Mendoza is a complete unknown. Think about it. The Giants may not need the first overall pick to make it this attractive for Cincinnati. Because if Cincinnati believes in Dart as their quarterback, maybe the second and third overall pick is still good.

[Don Hahn]

I still want more picks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, right.

[Don Hahn]

You're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, but, but my point is, is that that could still make it a trap.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just throwing out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I'm, I, I, this isn't. I'm just giving you a hypothetical. Is if you decide to change regimes, meaning get rid of Shane and you bringing in a new head coach and a new general man. And that head coach says, I like Jackson Dart. But you know what? I. So you don't think Joe Burrow, Mendoza, I think I can do better. Do you not hire him because of Dart, or do you say, I want to listen to this guy, I'm going to do it.

[Don Hahn]

You don't think it's lunacy to say I should think about trading Jackson Dart?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Lunacy?

[Don Hahn]

I think it's lunacy. Me, personally.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

I think it's insane.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even for Joe Burrow.

[Don Hahn]

Again, that is such a hypothetical.

[Peter Rosenberg]

These are all hypothetical.

[Don Hahn]

That one, to me, feels like the biggest shot in the dark.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't do it.

[Don Hahn]

What he just said there made it sound like, no, this isn't about Cincinnati. This is about football. Which sounds more Andrew Luck than Carson Palmer. Right? Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that's why you got to find that out.

[Don Hahn]

And you'd have to do that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I am not doing this. If Burrows, or even with the Jets, I'm still thinking about retiring. Goodbye.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I'm all set.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not really sure if I. All right. Goodbye. If I hear. I'm not thinking. If I hear I want to play for you, then I'll. Then I'm thinking about doing it. The only reason I bring it up is that because now you're talking about the new regime. You love a coach now. You're not going to get that coach because of this Maybe that coach says, you know what? If you're not going to do what I want you to do at quarterback, I'm going to go someplace. So now not only are you losing out on getting your coach, you know, you're losing out on maybe even improving at the quarterback position. I personally won't do it. I'd like to see what Jackson Dart's going to become and he's affordable. Burrows had his injuries. I probably don't do it. The reason I'm bringing it up is, what if it comes at the expense of the coach or general manager you want? Now, I don't think that would happen either because I think, you know, McCarthy's on record saying he loves dart. Yeah, but that was before our Little Reindeer games with Burrow.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm just saying, if you want to.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, the adding. Just one last thing to add to it. All right. I'm going to throw this in the pot as well. Let's say Mendoza goes on to win the national championship. Indiana goes on a storybook run. He just won the Heisman.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Now they go on a story. They upset Ohio State. They've number one seed. They're the number one team. Indiana. Hoosiers. Not basketball. Football. Number one team in the country. He's the Heisman winner. And they go on to run national champion. And he looks like, I mean, it's just an absolute stud. Everybody's watching now, and he's a stud. Big moments. Just looks great. The Giants have the number one pick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, like the Josh Rosen. Although Josh Rosen showed you nothing in Arizona. Yeah. And they also changed the coach, which the Giants would be doing. So that is very similar. But you have seen guys back to back, first picks, right?

[Don Hahn]

I, I, I'm telling you, like, it would take a lot for me to move off the quarterback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't, I don't think I could do it either, but I, but I'm just kind of just throwing it out there. It's fine scenario.

[Don Hahn]

It's fine.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think the jets are way more. But I was just throwing out the Giants. 1-800-919-3776. Tommy in the Bronx. You're on ESPN, New York.

[Caller]

Hey, fellas, I've been around for a long time and I just have a question for you. When I was a kid, way back when, in the 60s, the jets had a situation. Donald, exactly what you brought up. They had fewer. And then came Joe Willie. We had a choice of two guys. My God, what do you guys think of that? History repeating itself. Why can't you go after that, I don't think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because what you're doing is you're doubling down at the quarterback position and you're wasting a very, very valuable pick because they both can't play for you right now. You could turn around and maybe trade Dart for something that could get ugly. But they need so many other things, Tommy. If they were a quarterback away, all right, you're doubling your chances of getting that quarterback. They need another wide receiver to compliment neighbors. You heard Allen say they have no linebackers, they have no secondary. All right, you just can't afford to do that because you end up wasting a pick. Now, if you tell me Mendoza turns out to be man, and I can trade Dart, but it's still air, it's still draft picks, and it still won't be till the following year, I don't know if you would do that. When the Cardinals did it, Josh Rosen wasn't that great.

[Don Hahn]

Well, they didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Barry came in and said, listen, I. Kyle Murray. Kyle Murray. It ended up being, you know, everybody was wrong. Now they still don't have a quarterback for the moment.

[Don Hahn]

It was smart and Murray had moments.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I don't, I don't see the Giants doing that. I don't think they will. I don't think they should. James and Princeton, you're on espn, New York.

[Caller]

So I wanted to tag along with your points that you guys had currently. What if Giants do end with the first overall pick and like you said, a new regime comes in and they want Mendoza. What about the jets trading a first or a second for Dart? And then now that you have, now that you have, now that you have all these picks you can. I mean, Giants are probably going to want a second this year so they can build with Mendoza. I mean, trade a second or first to get Dart. And then if jets wanted to, they could, if they keep that first round pick this year, they could take and take one of the other top quarterbacks this year, have a competition. You would also be doubling down on the quarterback position, which jets have struggled with over the years. So you're kind of bolstering the quarterback position a little bit. And then in the future with the rest of the draft picks, now that the offense would be set if you had a quarterback, a running back, these receivers pan out, blind pans out, use all these other draft picks for your defense.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the only way you do it, James, is if the new regime just loves Mendoza. Because if they love Mendoza, you got to do it right. No matter what's that if you love him.

[Don Hahn]

Do you really John Mara? Really? Okay. Trading Jackson Dart to the Jets. I mean this is the off field for McCoys but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But if the offer is great, you're going to put.

[Don Hahn]

You're paying a tax. If you're the jets, you pay the tax.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Probably like I always get mad at the whole that's a Yankees can't make a deal. What if it's the Right.

[Don Hahn]

Now I've watched him play enough to know he's pretty accurate. I think he could run that, that Ben Johnson system like he. And in golf like the way like he's. I think he could do it. I think he could do it like it could be really interesting him with. Again with, with a healthy breeze. Hall, Garrett Wilson back. Like I, I don't know if Giants fans really know what they have because you're seeing it with a lot of crap around.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A lot of crap around it. It hasn't resulted in winning. And I think they're a little scared off by the injury, of course, which I don't blame them.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now yesterday that was, that was a joke. He went into the tent. Yeah, but he has gone into the tent for previous times, not all for concussions, but he missed two games because of a concussion.

[Don Hahn]

So it is a little.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is a little scary.

[Don Hahn]

This is interesting now. This is interesting because you're going to have a scenario where the Giants could have the number one pick. The jets might want the number one pick or the Giants might want another quarterback instead because they're buying into the narrative on their quarterback or. Or they know something about him which leaves their quarterback now available. I'm in on the. I love these stories.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is fun. It's a lot more fun than watching them play, I'll tell you that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's go to Dave in the car. You're on espn New York. What's up, Dave?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking the call. Dark to me is completely off the table for anybody in the league. I wouldn't be thinking about that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can understand.

[Caller]

The only, only reason I'm calling is because something that's not going to happen. I'm not going to tank and I'm not going to try and lose the game. But if the Giants should have the number one pick, they are in the driver's seat. You're going to have five to six teams call up. You're going to have the Browns call up. You could ask for anybody you want from the Colts, from the Browns, from the jets, for anybody. And you can name any Miles, Gary and If they say no, you hang up the phone, go to the next group, go to the next team. That's all you have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I. I'm.

[Caller]

I just want this girl. Tessa is out of her mind. What's the difference between winning three games and winning two games? Who cares? I want the one picked so we can get. We can get two great players. Say the Colts call up. I don't know who's on the Colts. I don't follow the Colts. Give me your best offensive lineman. You're all pro offensive lineman. You're all pro defensive linemen. I'll take those two guys. You don't like it, hang up. Bang, bang.

[Don Hahn]

Dave. Nothing. You're never going to get a deal done that. Then. Then all you're really. You're playing.

[Caller]

I'm just. I'm talking to you like that. I wouldn't talk to you.

[Don Hahn]

Well, no, what I mean is, is that. That like those are. And it's like most teams are probably going to. The number one pick is. This is not Trevor Lawrence, not Peyton Manning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See, that's the problem. I don't know if everyone is clamoring six teams to send everything over for this kid. Now maybe there are. We'll see. Because I'm telling you, we've had this conversation a billion times. The movement starts after the season. All right, what does he do at the combine? What does he do on his pro day? What's going to happen between now and the draft? We saw guys like Baker Mayfield come out of nowhere, climb up the standings. You know, nobody was on Daniel Jones radar at all. And then he goes sixth overall. We don't know. And it could also work. Maybe somebody we're not talking about all of a sudden climbs up. But right now I'm not getting the sense that all these teams are desperate for Mendoza. He is going to be the first overall pick almost by default. A lot of these other quarterbacks might not even come out. Now he's in Indiana might win the national championship. God forbid, he might get hurt or he might throw for six touchdowns in the championship game and everybody's going to want him. Right now, I'm not sure you're going to get the hall that you think you're going to get because you have the first overall pick. This is not Trevor Lawrence. This is not Peyton Manning coming out where everybody and their mother wanted that guy. Is Cleveland feel like that's the case.

[Don Hahn]

Is Cleveland really giving up assets when they know they're stuck with the Sean Watson he's going to play next year?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Then you got the then. All right, think about it. Cleveland mess with their situation with their quarterbacks already, okay.

[Don Hahn]

Oh yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know the jets, that's still a very awkward deal to make because not only you living in the same town, you live in the same building with them. Can, can that happen? Some of the other teams. Who needs a quarterback? Are the Raiders, Vegas going to do that? What does Vegas have? Can they, can they do that? I'm, I'm. You say you're sitting in the driver's seat. He made it sound like there's going to be, you know, 20 teams calling.

[Don Hahn]

You, six teams will be calling you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don'. I don't know.

[Don Hahn]

I can understand the Colts wanting to be on it. The Colts don't have any picks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Saints may not be. Look at the way that they've played with their quarterback. You don't know what's going to happen. Let's wait and see. But I'm with you. I'd rather have the first pick than not. And at this stage with everybody, in my opinion being gone. You're right. I don't condone tanking. I don't care at this point. I just don't want to see Jackson dart be damaged. So if Jackson, if you can guarantee me in these games remaining against Minnesota, against the Raiders Cowboys, that Jackson dart is healthy, throws for four touchdowns and 400 yards in every game and they lose.

[Don Hahn]

Great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. Jackson dart didn't seem too damaged by the play around him and you lose the game. But if I got a chance to make this kid better by throwing a game winning touchdown pass.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or like Eli changing the play against the Cowboys and winning the game, I'll take that. But I do see what you're talking about.

[Don Hahn]

I think you had those moments already though. You had that, you had that win against the Eagles. There was a couple of games early on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Early on.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. But when they were still like they, they still weren't dysfunctional.

[Chris Carlin]

I want more.

[Don Hahn]

He looked like this is the goods. This guy's the goods. And then of course it just, it's, it's, I think it's just too crazy around him right now. I think he's still playing well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh no, I, I agree a lot. Losing does get to you. And I don't want to see a damage to kid because I do think he's got an amazing future.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tony and Queen. Johnny ESPN New York Good afternoon, gentlemen.

[Caller]

I agree with Alan. Alan, when you said that this is lunacy.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That we discussed in this. I honestly, I agree with you. Don as well. Nobody's claiming from Mendoza. Like Mel Caper said, this is a weak quarterback class. I haven't seen anything that tells me that this guy is going to be a stud. But I want to talk about the Joe Borough thing. He hasn't won anything. He's hurt all the time.

[Chris Carlin]

Look at his injury.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you're right about the injuries, Tony. You're right about the injuries.

[Don Hahn]

What quarterback isn't dead?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's one nothing when he's the only quarterback to go into Kansas City in a playoff game and beat the Chiefs and go to a Super Bowl. All right. Josh Allen hasn't been able to do that yet. Lamar Jackson hasn't been able to do that yet. So has he won a Super Bowl? No. Has he gone to a Super Bowl? Has he won in Kansas City in the snow? Yes. So don't say he hadn't won anything. But the injuries are a bit of an issue. But they could be for Dart as well.

[Don Hahn]

His career records, 41, 32 and 1.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I hate giving records for quarterbacks. Then that. Because then that says that he's the sole reason why they win or lose.

[Don Hahn]

Is he not? Like, if they had WAR in football, wouldn't his WAR be off the charts?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah, it would be off the charts, but they don't have war. But are you going to. So he took the loss yesterday and he did throw two picks at this point. Well, I mean, you know, the team is bad. Oh, no. I'm just saying that when a pitcher. When a pitcher. Even. Even pitchers that have wins and losses, the analytics tell you it's fugazi. Because a lot of times they don't deserve the win. A lot of times they don't deserve the loss. If it's. If it's fugazi for pitchers in baseball, it's gotta be just off the charts fraudulent for football. But it's something we like to do. I don't love it. Let's get one more in before we get.

[Don Hahn]

What does he want? That's. I always say that he won a lot of games. When he plays, he wins most of his games.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Gill in Brooklyn. You're on espn. New York. Hey, Gil. Hey, what's up, guys? What do you got, baby? I'm not loving the line, Gil. So let's go to Tom in North Carolina. You're on espn. New York. What's up, Tom?

[Caller]

Hey, Don and Allen. How you doing today?

[Don Hahn]

What's up?

[Caller]

I don't mean to rain on this giant parade, but I am a lifelong unfortunate Raider fan. But I am old enough to have seen the three Super Bowls. I go back that far. The Raiders are a terrible team this year and to think that they are going to beat the Giants I think is a long shot. I mean the Giants seem to compete in all of these games. They have Jackson dart. The Raiders are a complete no show. They basically quit on this season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're right. That's probably the biggest reindeer game of all, Tom, is that the Giants would have the first overall pick. So are you good with your coach being one and done?

[Caller]

Yeah. But I'm. I hate to say it but I'm buying into this whole. The whole Raider story is that Jon Gruden is going to come back. It's a, it's a good old Al Davis move, you know, going against the NFL, bringing Gruden back. And I heard that Derek Carr is going to be the QB coach and he's going to bring up Mendoza the right way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh wow. Well, you listen.

[Caller]

That's the rumor in Radoville.

[Don Hahn]

We're going way back so we're bringing everybody back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah. Is there anything for Jim Plunkett and Casper and is there. They're going to bring. They're going to legalize stick them to get that whole thing going. I love the race. My father hated the Raiders. He hated the jets because he hated everything afl. And listen, Al Davis wasn't the most likable cat.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the vibe of that guy is pretty cool though.

[Don Hahn]

Always like that about Brooklyn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right? Very, very interesting team. Their history. They got the. And and they had the NFL song. Was that the autumn win is for they. They NFL. NFL films had a song for the Raiders. The lyrics to that are even awesome. Something kind of really cool about the Raiders. The autumn wind is a Raider. Find that. Jacob, get on it. I don't see you moving.

[Don Hahn]

Wow. Should have been already on it. There you go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you know the autumn wind is.

[Don Hahn]

A pirate Autumn wind is a pirate.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Blustering in from sea so good With a rollicking song he sweeps along swaggering boisterously. His face is weather beaten he wears a hooded sash.

[Don Hahn]

Why don't we do this anymore? Why don't we narrate like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Kids are corny.

[Don Hahn]

That's why. Right? Like, like why don't we narrate things that have colorful words and imagery in vocabulary rather than what do we have today?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then just. Then it all just comes that the autumn win is great. That's because the kids can't get into it unless it's got, you know. No you're getting educated, getting narrated. John Fasenda, one of the great voices of God.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mute. I mean, I bought the CD when it came out, like 30 years ago. Just would play it, like cruising around in the car, all those great songs. But they got one for the Raiders because the Raiders were just cool, man. The Raiders are like Motorhead. It is, right? Like the band Motorhead.

[Don Hahn]

Like Motorhead, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like they just took it to another level. Like Motorhead, whatever. You know the history or not. They got all these nice bands and they, they're, they're all polished. Even the metal, even the death metal ones all have the formula, all right? But then Motorhead just came in and, you know, Lemmy's voice wasn't that great and the guitar play wasn't great, but they were just so powerful and they just walk in and just the best line was like, lemmy says, we're the band, that if we move in next door to you, your lawn will die. And that's what the Raiders are. They just coming in. Play by the rule. There are no rules for the Raiders. You'll kill the quarterback. It's only 15 yards. It's. Isn't that a fair exchange? Your quarterback's dead and it cost me 15 yards.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, really.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Maybe they'll throw the guy that hit him out. Maybe.

[Don Hahn]

What did it cost?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's also, that's the mentality I used to love about Pat Riley. Pat Riley's thing when he came to New York, he was showtime, but he came to New York and he thinks New York got to be more grittier. So it's. If you foul someone, hit him again. Yeah, they're not going to call two foul.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's it, right? Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

If you know you're going to foul, hit him twice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey, it's a flagrant. It's a flagrant in the 10th row or if he doesn't leave the court. Right. Like, yeah, it's. I know it doesn't exist anymore. And now we play basically two hand touch in football. But there was just something about, you.

[Don Hahn]

Know, and that's why the Raiders aren't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Raiders anymore, that winning isn't everything. It's the only thing. Hal Davis, again, I'm not a huge fan, but he just had that quote to your quarterback must go down and you must go down hard. Yeah, that would probably get you fine now for saying. Meanwhile, they had, I think, I think they had made shirts that had going. You'd walk in. Bob Washusan would tell me that when you go to a rate when you go to Oakland and you'd walk into the Oakland Coliseum. It's a decrepit place and the grass isn't even green and the baseball field in the middle of it. It's just an ugly, disgusting place. But you walked in there, you knew you were walking into a den, right? You were walking into just a hell, you know, a pit of despond. And he said, one of the things, he says he'd go on the field, you know, that talk during warmups. And the place would be empty, but there'd be one guy standing in the corner dressed as the Grim reaper with a sickle and wouldn't move.

[Don Hahn]

Just standing there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just letting you know, right?

[Don Hahn]

Wind whipping the road.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, just. I miss, I miss.

[Don Hahn]

Can't see his face.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I gotta tell you that this is what you. You fall in love with football, with stuff like that. You do what it used to be about.

[Don Hahn]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know that the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of.

[Chris Carlin]

Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month.

[Don Hahn]

Now you don't even need to wrap it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Chris Carlin]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To $15 per month required new customer.

[Chris Carlin]

Offer for first three months only.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com as you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is we're gonna rub football all over ourselves today. I did consume a lot of football back in the day. Pre kids in my underwear.

[Don Hahn]

The NFL binge watching the regamb.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you watching? And the NFL binge is driven by Ramsey Mazda. And today also by Anthony Pusick.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, thank you.

[Chris Carlin]

Don't. How's everybody doing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Good.

[Chris Carlin]

Nice weekend. Not for the football teams. It was fun to watch in general.

[Don Hahn]

Not a good weekend. I lost my voice.

[Chris Carlin]

So that.

[Don Hahn]

So we're talking about. Just like made it through Friday show. Had a great dinner with you guys. Saturday woke up nothing.

[Chris Carlin]

Yeah, that was it, huh?

[Don Hahn]

Took me half the day to get it back.

[Chris Carlin]

But you did a good job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, you didn't have a game, right?

[Don Hahn]

No, I've been at a game in forever.

[Chris Carlin]

You fought through it, made it through.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Chris Carlin]

And now we're here for the NFL binge. I have five games on the docket here, guys. Five. Five of the games that were in action yesterday. And we'll start with the one that could have ended what we know as this dynasty. A nightmarish end to this chief season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Moving to the right. He'll throw it late. A flag thrown on the plate and it's incomplete. Mahomes is hurt. Mahomes is grabbing his leg.

[Don Hahn]

He's hurt.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mahomes taking a shot at the end of that play and is grabbing his leg.

[Chris Carlin]

And it was a torn ACL for Patrick Mahomes. His season done part of next season. Also done on 96. 5 the fan. Casey was eliminated from playoff contention. Andy Reid on the locker room after the loss.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, the guys are down. They busted their butt and win the game. You know, and I wouldn't expect anything less. You know, it's not a great feeling. I wouldn't expect it to be after losing a game. Well, first time since 2014. That was a long, long time ago.

[Chris Carlin]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And also, let's not have the narrative be they lost the game because Mahomes got hurt.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, they might have still won had he not gotten hurt, but he had a awful red zone pick the previous possession. That really hurt them when they had like three points in their pocket to tie the game and didn't. And Minshew came in and ended up throwing the interception. So it. And nothing broke their way. Right. That three things had to happen and then to lose and everything happened.

[Caller]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But they weren't going anywhere anyway. So let's not have the narrative be that had Mahomes stayed healthy, they would have won the Super Bowl. I think we can all agree that was not happening.

[Don Hahn]

You know, we were all in agreement week after week, though, every time the percentages got lower and lower, every time they would suffer a loss and you say now their percentage to make it is this. We were like but you can't count them out. You can't count them out because it's Patrick Mahomes as the Chiefs and anything can happen. And this pretty much like at least you know now officially for the first time in a million years that he's not going to be there.

[Chris Carlin]

There was a finality to all of it because he gets hurt. And yes, they could have lost that game anyway and they were probably not making the playoffs regardless. But he gets hurt and they get eliminated. Travis Kelsey's already talking about how he's not thinking about his future until the end of the season. You may not see them ever catch a throw throw or catch past one another again and again. Look, people made the. I saw Trey Wingo do this and a couple of other people as well. Tom Brady won three Super Bowls. It was first nine seasons.

[Don Hahn]

Unreal.

[Chris Carlin]

Torres acl. Granted that was very early in the season. Not at the end of that season. But of course the Patriots didn't make the playoffs that year.

[Don Hahn]

You're not either.

[Chris Carlin]

And it was. Jacob tells me it was against the Chiefs when that happened. Tom Brady. So there's a lot of similarities there. And how did it work out for Tom Brady? He bounced back. Well, I think that the Chiefs can. It's just going to look different than.

[Don Hahn]

What that's again what. What comes next now. Andy Reid, you know, isn't going anywhere and so you need. If you're Kansas City, you got to find your now. Mahomes 2.0. That's all you're doing now is this is now the sec. Right. The second act. Which is Brady had a second act too in that point right after his injury, didn't they? Didn't that when Gronk showed up?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, right.

[Don Hahn]

Gronk showed up and they got Randy Moss like they just. They turned from the all defense team to an offense that was pretty. Pretty exciting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. People forget because you look back and. And the time gets all crunched together. But there was two different stints.

[Chris Carlin]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

And that's what I think is going to happen. We all said this was going to happen. Players will get old, but Mahomes will stay there because you know he'll have that second run now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Andy is older though than Bill in when was.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was at that time.

[Don Hahn]

Isn't Andy and Bill about the same age?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Wow. So yeah. I would just show you.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Chris Carlin]

That's pretty crazy. So we'll see what happens. But no playoffs for the Chiefs this year and that will leave it wide open for this gentleman.

[Don Hahn]

Buffalo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's the snap. Handoff to Cook, lowers the shoulder looking.

[Don Hahn]

For the end zone. And he's in. James Cook with a trifecta of touchdowns, punches it in.

[Chris Carlin]

Well, the call on Bill's radio. Of course the man handing it off to James Cook with his three touchdowns was Josh Allen. And boy, Allen, you must have felt pretty good about your three point play in the second quarter of that game. Patriots plus one and a half felt so good. Not like you just think until that score late, you, you felt like, all right, you know what? Like even if they don't win this game, this is going to be a close one. I'm all set. I'm gonna be good. The bills were down 21 nothing in the second quarter.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Chris Carlin]

And all Buffalo did after that was outscored the Patriots 35, 10 to come.

[Don Hahn]

All the way back to win all the way.

[Chris Carlin]

That prevented the Patriots from winning the division.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I was crazy at least this time.

[Don Hahn]

What a game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I could say I was that on everything, but I'm call, I'm calling the game. So between periods, check the scores. You know, I'm seeing 21 nothing.

[Chris Carlin]

Yeah, boy.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, they were putting it on him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I'm thinking, all right, that's it's over.

[Chris Carlin]

What's that? Drake May mvp.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Big win for the Patriots.

[Don Hahn]

Nope.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the game ends. The devil game. Yes. So I go to use the facilities and I don't know, six or seven year old kids coming out of the bathroom.

[Don Hahn]

Success.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To his dad, it was 21 nothing. Now it's 24, 21. I'm like, gotta be talking. So I run to the fold like, oh my God. Yep. What happened?

[Chris Carlin]

Insane.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I listened to a little driving home, Josh Allen happened.

[Don Hahn]

He's the mvp.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But they did. But here's the thing about the Bills, all right, that they, they come back, but they give the lead back. But then they come back and take the lead again. Like, like that could have been a gut punch. Right? They come all the way back and they give us the long touchdown. They gave up 250 yards on the ground. Guys, championship teams usually don't do that.

[Chris Carlin]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it is a little bit of a concern. Somebody's got to come out of that conference.

[Don Hahn]

But that the Vrabel bye week home. All of it equaled. All of it equaled win.

[Chris Carlin]

No, the Bills. The Bills showed you something. And eventually, and we'll talk about this team a little later, we're going to have to take the Broncos seriously at some point here.

[Don Hahn]

Bo Nix is real. So.

[Chris Carlin]

But at least for one More week. The Bills have a chance at winning division. Was their motivation. Josh Allen, to prevent the Pats from winning the East?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Absolutely. You know, it's the most important one because it's the next one. I know say that a lot. It's no different. You know, we understood what was at stake, but at the same time, that wasn't really in the back of our heads. We were just, hey, we got to.

[Caller]

Find a way to win a football game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what we did tonight.

[Chris Carlin]

Now, you want to talk about a game that was really fun to watch? ESPN knows how to pick him. We had it on ESPN Radio here. And despite an injury to Devonte Adams, which did not look good at all, the Rams were down in this game, still managed to win.

[Don Hahn]

First down and 10 from the 11 of the Lions. Stafford play action. Rolling to his right and throwing. He's got a man and it's got a touchdown. It's Colby Parkinson, his second touchdown of the game, and that might have put this one out of reach by the LA Rams.

[Chris Carlin]

Steve Levy, ESPN Radio, LA. Beat Detroit 4134 after trailing 2414 late in the second quarter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Were we supposed to get Carlin this weekend?

[Chris Carlin]

Carlin was on the Chicago game, which was. He got the abomination for Shador Sanders and the utter destruction.

[Don Hahn]

It was more.

[Chris Carlin]

I mean, I'm choosing my words carefully. I'm not making up any words this time. I'm gonna use words in my vocabulary that I know.

[Don Hahn]

Can Jerry catch one? Just one. Hit you right in the hands, man. Touchdown.

[Chris Carlin]

He wasn't going to think about that after.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're not winning the face off from Levy.

[Chris Carlin]

No. LA's largest win. Steve Levy got what, probably 70 in Sunny. I think Chris Carlin was still defrosting when he was in the studio today. Not that this weather was helping him at all, but he was probably thinking it was nice balmy seven today in New York as opposed to whatever he was dealing with in Chicago. That was a cold game.

[Don Hahn]

But back to that game, though, again, Rams. It's good to see that Naku is okay and Adams does not look okay. Adams, though, that he's been so good.

[Chris Carlin]

And that's a problem for that team. Yes, I know Colby Parkinson had two touchdowns in that game as a tight end and that's great. Matthew Stafford can make it work and it seems like the Corum Williams tandem that they've got going is going to work for them in the playoffs running the football.

[Don Hahn]

But the other question on the other side of the ball is what Are the Detroit Lions, I don't know, dead. You know what I mean?

[Chris Carlin]

Like it's defense and defense isn't good.

[Don Hahn]

It's what has happened that's not great. You thought they would be on the trajectory up, but they have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really.

[Don Hahn]

I guess they spiked last year.

[Chris Carlin]

That would be sad if that was the case.

[Don Hahn]

As good as it got is a.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is it a one off? Because again, they're eight and six. So what are their odds at this point? They got to be pretty poor.

[Chris Carlin]

The playoffs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I have to look. I mean, they did catch the break with the packers losing, but I think.

[Chris Carlin]

They'Re in the hunt. Looking at it last night. Believe they're still in the.

[Don Hahn]

I don't.

[Chris Carlin]

When that game was over, I believe they're in the hunt. I don't think they're in the playoff right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I remember looking at the odds. I could just, you know, look at the odds.

[Chris Carlin]

They're gonna need help if I'm not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's got to be under 50% at this point. I'm sure. But not good considering, you know, that loss to the.

[Chris Carlin]

To Washington, eighth right now behind Green Bay, who's nine, four and one.

[Don Hahn]

You're way ahead of me. This is so slow. Who uses this computer, Bart?

[Chris Carlin]

Nobody. You are the only person that uses that computer. Bart sits here. Peter sits here.

[Don Hahn]

It's all my fault.

[Chris Carlin]

I'm not saying it's your fault. I'm just saying that that computer is lone and it misses you. Now, we could talk about the pill.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We'll give you the odds. I'm sorry. Just one quick second.

[Chris Carlin]

Let's take a look at those odds.

[Don Hahn]

The lines are right on the outside here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. The Lions are right now 41%. 41%, which is not nothing. But it's not great.

[Don Hahn]

It's better than. Think about it. Carolina, which at 1 for 1 second, 1 sec. Seemed to be in control of its destiny. They are now at 23%.

[Chris Carlin]

And very quietly, the Saints team is putting together a couple of nice defensive play. I mean, Chuck was playing. I believe that he wasn't on the field for the last drive. I think it was Rattler. But the Saints are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How do you blow that game?

[Chris Carlin]

I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, you got a clear cut ride to that division.

[Don Hahn]

Unreal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know you got two games left with Tampa, but you know, Tampa's got no kick coming either. Home losses to the Saints and the Falcons. Nobody wants to sell.

[Chris Carlin]

Nobody wants to sell. Well, somebody wanted the AFC west this year was the Denver Broncos.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Broncos ahead 27, 26 Knicks tosses right side Harvey. Harvey makes a cut into the goal line.

[Chris Carlin]

Touchdown Denver 8:50 KOA. Denver defeated the Packers 34:26. They leaped the Patriots for sole possession for the 1 the AFC 1 seed. They also clinched a playoff spot. Big loss for the Packers. Now we talk about a team that we thought could make a deep run. Michael Parsons ACL tear. He is done for the.

[Don Hahn]

That was a non contact injury too. It's just took a bad step and you just saw the knee buckle. Yeah, that's tough. Broncos 12 and 2.

[Chris Carlin]

12 and 2. Sean Payton could have lost to the Giants.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Chris Carlin]

Could have lost to the Cowboys maybe.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How many straight wins again now?

[Chris Carlin]

Might be 11 now.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, they gotta be. Yeah, they're on a. They're on a toot as one would say.

[Chris Carlin]

Do you believe regardless of record and all that other stuff. Do you believe that they are. They are on 11 game win streaks? Do you believe they are the best team in the afc? I know everyone's going to say no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you know what the defense wins.

[Don Hahn]

Championships but well my only. What's your hang up?

[Chris Carlin]

7 and O at home. They don't lose at home.

[Don Hahn]

What's your hang up about them? If there's something consistency and you know what? If you watched him last night, great. Last night he did not look like he was. He looked like he had clear vision. There was nothing concerning at all watching him play.

[Chris Carlin]

They will have some tests. They have the Jaguars at home next week. They go to the Chiefs without Patrick Mahomes. That's a different animal. And they finish at home against the Chargers.

[Don Hahn]

So that's not nothing.

[Chris Carlin]

No cupcakes to go in, no coming in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And if they can get that game in Denver where you said they're undefeated but if they're going up against Josh Allen, it's Josh Allen versus Bo Nix.

[Chris Carlin]

Who do you have a quarterback?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even though their defense can be stifling, you know Allen does find a way sometimes. But never against Kansas City because the quarterback across the field was always slightly better. That won't be the case against Denver. No offense to Bo Nicks. He's not Josh Allen.

[Don Hahn]

I feel like if there's ever a time for Josh Allen, isn't this it? It feels like isn't this it?

[Chris Carlin]

It would have to be.

[Don Hahn]

Man, when he puts the cape on. Is there anybody better in the league right now?

[Chris Carlin]

He'd be the best quarterback of the group that are in the playoffs right now for the AFC without question. And you have to feel good about that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Chris Carlin]

Sunday Night Football The Cowboys slim chances at the playoffs. They got small McCarthy with an empty backfield.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Puts Hawkins into motion. First and goal.

[Don Hahn]

JJ looking right, throwing right. Caught. Touchdown.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jalen Naylor with a two touchdown game. And the Minnesota Vikings have taken a 30 to 23 lead.

[Chris Carlin]

I believe this is Don Legrecka's doppelganger Paul Allen on the Vikings radio network. You should look it up. Allen. If you haven't seen what Paul Allen looks like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Disturbing.

[Chris Carlin]

It's pretty amazing.

[Don Hahn]

Disturbing.

[Chris Carlin]

If you. When you. If you told me that Don had a brother, which he does, I would think it's Paul Allen and not Dave.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. If I said, I got a brother, he lives in Minnesota, and you saw this, you'd be like, oh, I see it.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, wow.

[Chris Carlin]

It's. It's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing. Minnesota beats Dallas 3426 on Sunday night Football. The Cowboys cannot win the wild card. They could still have an outside chance to win the division, but it would require a complete collapse by the Eagles.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the Cowboys winning way outside there. Literally a 1% chance.

[Chris Carlin]

And that being said. Jerry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jerry.

[Don Hahn]

We know the Jerry.

[Chris Carlin]

Do you believe your team is underachieved?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Yes. We certainly didn't think we'd be here in this kind of shape, three games to go, be behind the eight ball the way we are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's very disappointing.

[Don Hahn]

I obviously very disappointed for our fans. I'm disappointed for these players.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't expect that.

[Don Hahn]

I thought we could come out here and on both sides of the ball, play them out.

[Chris Carlin]

That didn't happen.

[Don Hahn]

Here's all you need to know about how you should have known and seen this coming. Ready for points allowed. Mm. 34 to the Vikings. And J.J. mcCarthy. Let's just start there. Right? 44 to the Lions. 28 to the Chiefs. Amazingly, they all. They held The Eagles at 21. The Raiders suck. So the 16 doesn't matter. 27 to the Cardinals, 44 to the Broncos, 22 to the Commanders. 30 to the Panthers. They gave 22 to the jets, who can't score at all. 40 to the Packers, 31 to the Bears, 37 to the Giants.

[Chris Carlin]

Is that good?

[Don Hahn]

With Russell Wilson?

[Chris Carlin]

Russell Wilson, James, Russ.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'd be good for, you know, a college basketball team.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think it would be.

[Chris Carlin]

Or has.

[Don Hahn]

Think about it. Seven of their 15 games, 30 or more points allowed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's almost.

[Don Hahn]

That's your problem.

[Chris Carlin]

It's not good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So to say, like, you know, we thought we'd be better. No, you.

[Chris Carlin]

Well, that's the Binge.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That is the binge. And the NFL binge is driven by Ramsey Mazda. It's the experience of driving into Mazda and buying a new Mazda from Ramsey Mazda. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsay Mazda.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.

[Caller]

All right.

[Don Hahn]

We got plenty more to get to with you at 800-919-3776. Grab a couple of calls here before we get into the 5 o' clock hour. Bobby and Belmore. Bobby, you're up next.

[Caller]

Yeah, hi guys. Yeah Brady had a third act with Tamper and before I get to my point.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Jets 1411 to Denver. You've got that your producer forgot that game. But let me get to my point with the Chiefs Astros comparison. It's very you know they both made to well the Chiefs may AFC championship seven straight years reachable bowls and actual seven straight I'm sorry ALCS championships and won two World Series. And you compare those that era, this era with the spurs and Patriots very similar. You know I think there's a paid The spurs from 99 to 2017 when that golden State guy stepped on Leonard's foot and then and they would have won that shirt. I thought they were blowing him out in that game one that Western Conference final and then the you know, Lenin who wanted to be traded and all that the passport from 2001 to 2018 another 17 year run. It's funny how those two teams now are back on the way up. You know, Pats in the Spurs. So it's just a, it's just comparison and you know, if the dynasty is over, I mean we'll see. You know it's, it's not so easy you know building a team a second time and you know as far as the second and I think, I think the previous call is right about Mendoza. The Vegas plays Giants tweet next week, not this week and they they have 75 total yards against the Eagles. So they're tanking it. There's no doubt about it. So they're going to get Mendoza. So all that trade talk I think so be obsolete.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I don't think they're going to be able to lose to the Raiders.

[Don Hahn]

We were having fun with it while we could.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah we're just having fun and listen and if they hypotheticals are always there and under our scenario if we're all going to admit that Mendoza isn't going to be all that Attractive. Could the second overall pick and Dart still be something that they would be interested in considering? Dart would be their quarterback then, you know, whatever. Whoever wants to take men. Don't let the Raiders take Mendoza. I'll just take the second best player in the draft. It's not a quarterback and be happy with that. So. Well, the scenario still could exist.

[Don Hahn]

Like Robin Monmouth has another name quarterback wise in the draft. Rob.

[Caller]

Oh, yes. Gentlemen. Hey, happy holidays to you guys and Peter as well. To the family. To all you guys on the other side, do a great job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Real quick.

[Caller]

Allen, I just want to give you a big shout out for having one of the best point guards to ever come out of New York City. Rod Strickland. I followed him from DePaul. One of the best ballers ever. I appreciate you doing that. And as a fellow Liu alum. Appreciate that. Don, I'm a big fan of yours, man. I lived in Glen Rock for a minute. Used to go to the Koshanash over in Glenrock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There you go. Great guys over there.

[Caller]

Not far from Hawthorne. Yeah, that's the table for big boys like you and me, Doc. So here's the deal. I'm not interested. I won't. I'm not going to poo poo the idea of getting Mendoza. I like him. He's a good kid. I'm not reaching for a quarterback. And I'm a die hard jets fan. I go back to the Richard Todd days in Chase Stadium.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, me and you.

[Caller]

I'm not reaching for a quarterback. But if Dante Moore becomes available and he decides to enter the draft, that's the quarterback I'd be more interested in than Mendoza. But listening to Bart and. And Carlin, they need. They just need smart players. Bart's on point with this. You just have to have some of the dumbest players in the NFL.

[Don Hahn]

Didn't I say that earlier?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

[Don Hahn]

There's a lot of low IQ play happening out on that field.

[Chris Carlin]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I don't want. As a Jets fan, I'm not looking to reach for a quarterback. Because guess what? It doesn't matter if you have. If you get. What's his name? Joe Burrow from Cincinnati. You're just transferring what was in the Midwest to the East. Because the defenses are the same, the locker rooms are the same, and the outcome has been the same. That's really it. I want the draft picks. I want to see what Moji can do. I trust him to make the moves that are necessary to build this team. I'm not in A rush. I'm not desperate and thirsty for them to be mediocre. I want to see prolific change and the way they draft and the way they do things, I want to see talent on the field.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, talent wins out. And you know, thank you for the phone call. And you're right, Mel Kiper Jr. Believes in more, but he believes he'll be the top pick in the 26 draft because it looks like he's going to stay.

[Don Hahn]

Well, he just said this. This is earlier today. As Moore said, there's not a decision yet. I don't know. I think they want to get a sense because if there's a team that's like we'll take you in the top 10 if you come out this year, how do you not?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but again, so much happens between now and when that selection has to be made.

[Don Hahn]

So we'll see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Will he drop? Will he rise? And it's not going to be based on what Oregon does in the playoffs. It's going to be based upon his pro day if he decides to participate in. It's going to his combine, his Wonderlic test. All the things that seem to move the needle more than actually throwing touchdowns and winning games in college football, which is ridiculous. One of the reasons why, you know, the draft is so maddening. There's also a lot of reasons why people buy it. Ramsey Mazda. It's their selection, it's their customer service and it's their savings during the more to move you event. Lisa new Mazda 2025 CX 52.5s select with all wheel drive for 199 for 36 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for lease details. Vin sn 385912 MSRP32795 zero security deposit ends 12 25.

[Don Hahn]

It's the best, Vin.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's squeeze in one more. Rob in Florida. You're on ESPN New York, what's up?

[Caller]

So you were talking about how the Giants might get if they were hypothetically they would get Mendota. But you have. Isn't that similar what the jets did? They already had Donald. They didn't build around him and they went to Zach Wolfstein and like now you don't have a quarterback. The Jets. I'm a Giants fan. But you have Dart. You know what he is build around him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They had Darnold, but if you remember, they didn't want to give him the fifth year option. Traded him to Carolina who was willing to give it to him. And then they like Dart. All right. And they also don't have to make that decision about a fifth year option. So it's apples and wrenches really. As opposed to apples and oranges.

[Don Hahn]

Not exactly the same because of. Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're not forced to make a decision on.

[Don Hahn]

Right. You either were going to commit to them or not. And they, they decided to not. And that's obviously been a mistake that they have had to pay for. But you know, we are not saying like I, I'm on the record. I said I think it's lunacy to want to move on. I have seen this conversation happen within giant circles. They get the number one pick. You should move on from Dart. And I'm like, are you guys crazy? Do you not know what you're looking at?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's not. It's crazy. But I guess there could be a scenario where it's something that they might have to think about depending on what happens the rest of the year, the new regime, if there is going to be a new general manager and all that.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.