← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
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- [00:01]
Google Chrome Advertiser
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- [00:27]
Don Hahn
this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:30]
Dan Graziano
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:32]
Don Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.
- [00:40]
Alan Hahn
Don and Peter will be back. Well, Don is off this week. Peter will be back with us tomorrow. So, yeah, you just get me today. And so it always becomes like, okay, let me reach out to some friends to join me along the way. And the first thing I thought of right away, I said, I want to talk some Giants today. I want to talk some NFL today. And to do that, I want to bring in Dan Graziano, who's kind enough to take some time with us today. Right now. Graz, how you doing?
- [01:04]
Dan Graziano
Great, Alan.
- [01:05]
Google Health Advertiser
How are you?
- [01:05]
Alan Hahn
I'm good. It's, it's, it's off season for me. You're about, what are you about two weeks before it gets insane?
- [01:13]
Dan Graziano
I leave on my training camp trip on the 30th. So, yeah, 17 days. That's, that's what I got left before.
- [01:20]
Don Hahn
Right.
- [01:20]
Dan Graziano
For those who don't know, every year starts again.
- [01:24]
Alan Hahn
Every year, Graz does a training camp journey where it's like, where in the world is Dan Graziano? He goes to different training camps. Do you. What, what do you have mapped out this year?
- [01:32]
Dan Graziano
Where are you going to hit right now? Kansas City. And then I'm going to do the LA teams, Rams, Chargers, see the Cowboys while I'm out In Southern California, 49ers, Raiders and Vikings on the way back. That's what I got so far.
- [01:48]
Alan Hahn
Oh, I like that. So again, you get, you get to
- [01:50]
Dan Graziano
see the Raiders situation in a few years.
- [01:53]
Alan Hahn
Well, the Raiders situation is going to be fun, right? To see what happens there with the quarterbacks and what happens with Mendoza and Kirk Cousins. They're already doing like this twins thing. It's hilarious, but it won't be funny once the season starts.
- [02:05]
Dan Graziano
Step brothers and all that.
- [02:07]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, right.
- [02:08]
NBA Analyst
Yeah.
- [02:08]
Alan Hahn
At least they're bought into it, which is nice. But let's, before we go around the NFL, let's just locally here because I'm curious how you feel about where the Giants are Not the expectations thing because you've covered them. You've covered sports in New York long enough to know that there's reasonable expectations and then there's what the fans make as expectations. And when you bring in a John Harbaugh, you know that just kind of does a times 10 to no matter what you're doing, even if it's just step one of a rebuild or a build up, whatever you want to call it. What are your professional opinion expectations of a Giants team that won four games last year with what they have right now going into this coming season?
- [02:54]
Dan Graziano
I think I expect improvement. I don't. I'm not all the way there yet with like, oh, could be a sleeper team, playoff contender, that kind of thing. Feel like it needs another off season to get where it needs to be. You mentioned they only won four games. The difference is the Harbaugh part of it, right? Because we've seen if you're a Giants fan over the past decade, there's been a couple of flare ups of like competence and excitement. There was the first year Ben McAdoo, they won 11 games, they went to the playoffs, they lost in Green Bay in the playoffs. And then there was the first year Brian Daboll where they made the playoffs and he was coach of the year and Daniel Jones played well and all this. So you've seen it, but it didn't sustain in either of those cases. John Harbaugh makes you feel like if you have that kind of year or even if you just have a better one, they, you know, it will sustain. This is a man that knows how to build a winning program. He comes from a winning organization. He was there a very long time and had a team that by and large was in contention every single year. So that's where the hope is. I think they're a lot better on the offensive line than they've been in a long time. I think, you know, defensively they have playmakers on that side of the ball. I'm a little concerned about the playmaker options on the offensive side of the ball if Malik Neighbors isn't fully healthy and doesn't sound like he's going to be fully healthy, certainly not right away. So that's my concern. In addition to, you know, Ken Jackson dart learn to protect himself, et cetera, et cetera. But I think you see talent at key positions and if they're healthy, you know, they could be, they could be a tough team for people to play. I just don't see them as a like division title contender after just the one Harbaugh off season.
- [04:41]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, especially in this division. When you consider again, you've got the Eagles who might have the. One of the best rosters in the league, a Cowboys team that has a great receiver core and your secondary has not been very good and they keep trying to build it, but that, that should be a challenge on that front. And then of course there's Washington and what are they going to be? But with a healthy Daniels, they still have a better quarterback than you do, or at least a more experienced one. So can we live in that quarterback space, which is always the most important piece with a lot of these franchises? With Jackson Dart, my concern, and again, you're a guy that has covered not only the Giants, but you covered the Yankees. You, You've, you know, covering the big teams in this town. The quarterback position is going to be one that's going to get a ton of attention. I felt like last year was his honeymoon. People just loved him because he was, you know, young. He was a new face. He did play well at times and there was just something about a future and a feel of, hey, I want this kid to be good, really bad. But now that his expectations, how much of it is on the shoulders of Jackson Dart, like, is there a ton of pressure on this kid to show this year that he's the guy? Because he wasn't Harbaugh's guy. He is now, but it doesn't mean he is going forward.
- [05:51]
Dan Graziano
Right. And that's, you know, and you've got to learn a new offense. They have, they changed offensive coordinators as well. Anybody is learning a new offense, there's going to be a learning curve. He spent last year learning Brian Dabel's offense. Now it's, you know, all these coaches, they brought in Matt Nagy and Greg Roman and all these. So, yeah, I think a lot of pressure on Jackson Dart. What he did last year was he showed some stuff. You could watch Jackson Dart last year and get behind the idea of this guy can be a good and winning NFL quarterback. He makes those kinds of plays. So what you need is see more of it and fewer of the bad ones and less time in the blue tent. And that, that is the critical part of it for Jackson Dart is you don't want to take his legs away because it's a key part of what makes him great. But you have to impress upon him the importance of him being on the field. And how many times last year, even if he didn't miss the game, did we see, oh, he's got to miss a few plays because he's got to get checked out. So that, that is a big. It's easier said than done. With young quarterbacks, you come into the league feeling invincible. You know, it's just so we haven't seen it yet and we won't until I guess a preseason game if he plays in those. John Harbaugh has some experience breaking in a young quarterback and having success with him and Lamar Jackson some years ago. So not comparing the two players, but this was obviously a player that needed to learn to use his, his, his legs for good and learn ways to keep himself out of trouble physically. And he did that. So maybe John Harbaugh applies some of the principles that went into that to Jackson darts development here. But there was enough positive shown last year. If you're a Giants fan, you want to get excited about the kid, I cannot blame you. I'm excited to see what he looks like in year two and in the new offense.
- [07:48]
Alan Hahn
Dan Graziano joining us right now talking some NFL, talking some Giants and on the Jackson Darth story that I'm going to be watching very closely as this begins for beyond the on the field because as you just talked about there, he did show you. I thought he was very competent when he was, you know, running the offense. I thought he gave him a spark. You could see the guys rallied around him. There was a lot of good there. I thought he processed for a young player. I thought he processed really well and he knew when to go. He almost had that feel, you know, it's like to certain quarterbacks that just don't have that feel when the pockets closed and to get like, almost like that, that fight, fight or flight instinct. He always knew when it was time to flight. Some people thought too much, but I felt all that stuff was good. But you again, with your experience covering to me at the podium is what I got worried about. And I wonder if with the pressure on him this year, like how much he kind of got his back up about what they were saying to him about, you know, you shouldn't run as much. Well, that's my game. That's what I do. That's what got me here. He fought back a lot. And I wonder if things don't go really well for the team and they're not winning as much, is he going to be able to handle what comes with being the quarterback of the New York Giants and the face facing the New York media regularly? Have you seen anything out of him that worries you about his maturity factor? He's 23, he still has a lot of growing up to do. You've covered enough to know you've seen this happen before. Is that something to watch this year?
- [09:18]
Dan Graziano
Sure. And I think, you know, the sort of arrogance that he plays with is something you don't want to take away from him because it lends itself to big time play. And I think we saw a lot of that last year. The message if you're the coaching staff is about the team. The team is counting on you. This isn't about you having to change who you are. This is about you having to be there for your teammates. And you know from experience last year that there were stretches of time in games where you weren't. We need to reduce those because all these other guys are counting on you. If all goes well, you're going to end up making the most money. But these guys livelihoods are going to depend on your ability to get to that point. So I, look, I mentioned this before. I mean, not just Harbaugh, they bring in Matt Nagy's offensive coordinator. Brian Callahan is on the coaching staff as a passing game coordinator. Greg Roman is on the coaching staff as an offensive assistant. These are all coaches that have experience bringing along young quarterbacks. Lamar Jackson in Baltimore with Roman and Harbaugh. Brian Callahan was there when Joe Burrow broke in in Cincinnati and then he was breaking in Cam Ward last year. Obviously didn't last very long. You know, Nagy was in Kansas City when Patrick Mahomes broke in. Not as good with Justin Fields in Chicago. But I think what's happened with Fields since then indicates that maybe it wasn't that fault. So you have a collection of people that have experience with this. So if they're getting together and shaping the message that they want to deliver to Jackson Dart, this is how you have to conduct yourself day in, day out. This is what being the quarterback of an NFL team and in New York City means in terms of how you have to set the example in the building. All these other guys will look to you. The press conference is not a throwaway, something that, you know, other people will be watching your press conferences to see how theirs should go. So the experience of the coaching staff and the specific experience of these coaches with young quarterbacks I think gives the Giants a pretty good chance to have success here in terms of what they need to do with Jackson Dart.
- [11:25]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, I'm rooting for the kid because he's a good story and because he does have a good personality. It could all work out well here. But that one part Always, like, I. I winced a call. I always say this. Whenever somebody says something stupid or says something out of line at a podium, there's always a PR guy on, you know, nearby face, palming, going, oh, why did he do that? Right? And so there was a couple of times this past year, I'm like, come on, kid. Like, don't. Don't do that. And so I want to see him kind of mature from that, because it'll only be better. Look, they had Eli Manning here for years who mastered the deadpan and the expression never put one foot wrong.
- [12:01]
Dan Graziano
Yeah.
- [12:01]
Alan Hahn
And never took anything personal, at least not public. He didn't show you he took things personal. We learned later he's very petty, which is hilarious, but he kept it internal. I think also, you know, Daniel Jones, for all his faults, especially getting hurt so much, but Daniel Jones had that same demeanor where no matter what you asked him, he never seemed to get rattled. And that's important, I think, in this market, especially with that franchise. Dart wears it on his sleeve. And that's, you know, again, one area to watch. One more on the Giants, Dan, is. Is the weakness of this team would be offensive line or secondary, which would be the bigger concern for you going into the season?
- [12:39]
Dan Graziano
Well, I'd be more concerned about the secondary. I like what they've done on the offensive line. To me, if Andrew Thomas stays healthy, which has been an if, obviously in his career, I think the offensive line looks pretty good and actually has a little bit of depth to it. But on the back end in the secondary, that's. I mean, it's tough to find help back there. But that's where I. That's where I look and say, maybe they need another off season to build that out. Maybe use this season to see who from back there, you know, can be part of the program moving forward. But that would be my bigger concern on the defensive side of the ball, the secondary, and also up front in the middle. Dexter Lawrence is no small loss, literally and figuratively. So they were a. They were a team that had a hard time stopping the run last year. They lose their best interior defensive lineman. Let's see what. What they do about stopping the run this year.
- [13:32]
Alan Hahn
All right, a couple of things around the NFL. First and foremost, I know there's a top 10 quarterback list that was put out by our colleague. What, Jeremy Fowler did this. And I remember a time where people were mad that Jalen Hurts was ranked too low or too high, whatever it was. Now he's an also ran. He's an honorable Mention he's not even in the top 10. What are the Eagles without A.J. brown? What are the Eagles going forward with this team? Because the roster looks good, but are they still that same formidable team we expect them to be year after year?
- [14:03]
Dan Graziano
I believe the Eagles are one of the. Are as big a question mark as they've been in a very long time for a couple of reasons. One, obviously they no longer have their number one wide receiver, A.J. brown, for whatever fell apart there. He was still extremely productive and they're going to have to replace that production with guys that haven't proven that they can play at that level. So that's. That's one thing to watch. The other thing to watch is they are installing a new offense. It'll be. It feels like they're always installing a new offense every year around Jalen Hurts, but this time it's a more significant change than he's even seen in the past. So that's worth watching. The offensive line coach, Jeff Stoutland, departs the organization after, I believe, 13 years. Guys like, you know, Lane Johnson and Landon Dickerson and Jordan Mylotta, the mainstay offensive lineman there, have only known Stoutland they can't like. Jordan Mylotta didn't play football until he got to the Eagles. Jeff Stoutland basically taught him how to play football. So the significance of that change, coupled with the fact that some of those guys are getting a little bit older, it makes you wonder because so much of their success two years ago was based on the D dominance of that offensive line and its ability to open the one hole for Saquon Barkley and let him do the rest. If that's not as reliable as it was two years ago and we saw this last year, then the offense becomes a bigger question mark. So that, that's what I'm looking at with Jalen Hurts and the Eagles is this is a. It's a lot of change in a short period of time. And to me, it makes them as big a question mark as I think we've seen from them in a long while.
- [15:40]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, the old line's getting older and maybe rickety, and that's. If that falls apart, it changes everything for Barkley and obviously for Hertz. The Cowboys have. Would you say the two like the best wide receiver pair in the league? Is that fair to say?
- [16:00]
Dan Graziano
You know, Cincinnati might have something to say about that or maybe the Rams, but you could, you could make that case. There's no question about it.
- [16:08]
Alan Hahn
I mean, how dangerous is that?
- [16:10]
Dan Graziano
George Pickens.
- [16:11]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [16:11]
Dan Graziano
So how can he coming off the year he had?
- [16:13]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, yeah. So how dangerous do you say that makes them? If we're assuming health is with Dak and we're assuming, you know, the Cowboys made some, made the necessary changes to defense to make them a better defensive thing. Like could we. Every year we always do this and I know you love it when because it's, you know, on get up or first take, it's always got to get the Cowboys in. It's just the same as, you know, getting in LeBron on the NBA side of things. You always got to get that in Golden State. Make sure you mention them. Dallas is always going to be that team but every year it just starts to become redundant like every year. Is this going to be the year. But am I crazy to say, could this be a year for the Dallas Cowboys because of what they've got, the weapons they have offensively?
- [16:55]
Dan Graziano
No, I don't think you're crazy. But it's a team that hasn't been to the conference championship game in three decades. So there is an element of. We have to see it to believe it. With the Dallas Cowboys, I believe that they could have the best offense in the league if things break right with those receivers and that tight end and the running game they established with Javante Williams last year around a top level quarterback when healthy and an offensive line that has been very good. They draft very well at those offensive lines as well positions and they keep that unit strong and it's again assuming health. It's a good one. So the question as you mentioned is did they do enough on defense? They grabbed the defensive coordinator from the Eagles coaching staff, Christian Parker, who's an up and comer, well respected, well regarded as a coaching prospect. If all goes well in Dallas, you're going to continue to hear his name for bigger and bigger jobs. But if he's the real deal, which they think he is, and the additions they made on that side of the ball, which are pretty good on paper, can get them to middle of the pack or better. They become an extremely dangerous team because of the way they can score points.
- [18:02]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, well, Graz, you know, we just saw a 53 year drought end. Who's to say 30, you know, three decades can't come to an.
- [18:09]
Dan Graziano
Sure did.
- [18:10]
Alan Hahn
You know, you're right though.
- [18:11]
Dan Graziano
Yeah.
- [18:12]
Alan Hahn
We have to see it to believe.
- [18:13]
Dan Graziano
Maybe, maybe England wins the World cup. Right. That's been 60 years.
- [18:17]
Alan Hahn
But then, you know, it's a trend.
- [18:18]
Dan Graziano
There's still. Yeah. So then we get back to. We talk about the Cowboys. Absolutely.
- [18:23]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, I mean Carolina and then the Jets. See now I didn't even want to bring the Jets.
- [18:29]
Dan Graziano
No, we're not doing that.
- [18:30]
Alan Hahn
I didn't want to bring them up, but I'm going to.
- [18:32]
Dan Graziano
Well, we're talking about droughts.
- [18:34]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, well, there's, there's, there's none bigger than that one literally in New York now. And I, and I feel like, I feel like for them I don't want to have expectations. Despite the fact that Bart has told me he thinks this could be a top seven, top 12 offense on paper, talent wise. But I do feel like the one thing, I do like what I've seen and I know you pay attention to this stuff, I feel like at least when it comes to how the organization's being run, which I'm going to give credit to, Darren Muji, I do feel like they're in a good place there. Roster management, roster building. Would you say that at least about the Jets?
- [19:17]
Dan Graziano
I would. That they still, you know, Geno Smith's not going to be the long term answer at quarterback. That's the biggest thing hanging over them. And obviously the three first round picks next year are probably the answer to that question. And look, I like Aaron Glenn and think that he's a good football coach, but his first year did not go well.
- [19:36]
Jake
Right.
- [19:36]
Dan Graziano
He's got to show something this year in order to stick. I think so, yeah, there are some, there are some. I mean coaching quarterback are the two biggest spots on the whole team and the jets have major questions at both. So yeah, yeah, it could be a little. But I mean, I do think they've built out a good roster. I think it was smart to keep Breece Hall, Garrett Wilson I still believe is going to be special. Look, when I was at the combine in February talking to teams about quarterbacks and a lot of people thought Geno Smith's tape from last year wasn't bad and that the offense that Chip Kelly built around him was the problem. So he was playing well in Seattle prior to last year. He's not super old. It's conceivable that you'll get something out of him that's better than what the Raiders got out of him last year. If again, these people I was talking to turn out to be correct. And he does have weapons, so it could be fun. I can see where Bart's optimism might come from. But you know, until you have the guy, even if you have, even if you find your Jackson Dart that you don't even know if he's the guy. But at least you're excited about him.
- [20:45]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Dan Graziano
Last year, Justin Field, a complete catastrophe from the get go.
- [20:50]
Alan Hahn
Yes, it was.
- [20:51]
Dan Graziano
So. So you got to have something to rally around. And I think the jets are probably still a couple of years from that.
- [20:56]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. And with Geno, I think, you know, we know how he is when the offensive line line isn't good.
- [21:01]
Jake
He.
- [21:02]
Alan Hahn
I know no one likes to get hit, but he really doesn't like to get hit. Like he'd rather just spike the ball than take a hit. And I think that was a big part of the problem there. But when you see his numbers in Seattle, when he had some protection, that, you know, maybe he could still have that in him and, you know, again, all remains to be seen. But, you know, with all those draft picks that they have, you know, if. If Joe Burrow isn't happy in Cincinnati, I had that dream for about 30 seconds.
- [21:29]
Dan Graziano
Dream big. Sure.
- [21:30]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. That's all I got, honestly. Because really, what else, you know, what else is there? The Matthew Stafford story, to me, and how he went from rags to riches and amazingly, how Detroit actually also benefited from that. I mean, when do you ever see that? I mean, the Lions became functional even though they gave up a. An MVP quarterback. But the fact that that deal was made and yet both franchises really benefited from it. I'm just looking around saying you don't always have to draft your guy. Again, Seattle, great example, won a Super bowl with who? Sam Donald? You know, it is possible to do another way, and I feel like with the jets, that's going to have to be it. How do they find that guy that they make a trade for? They have all these picks.
- [22:18]
Dan Graziano
Worth noting that the Rams team that won the super bowl in Stafford's first year had been to the super bowl three years prior to that and was a playoff team the year before. You know, I just feel like, look, dream big. Why not? At some point it'll happen. It happens for everyone. This is the story of the New York Knicks. But, you know, I think it's weird because, right, like, they've got to win some games because Aaron Glenn has to establish like, that there's a winning culture here, or at least the germ of it.
- [22:48]
MLB Advertiser
Absolutely.
- [22:49]
Dan Graziano
But, you know, you almost don't want to win too many games if you're looking quarterbacks, so that's tricky. So that's where having three first round picks really helps, because you can move around in that round or to your point, you can trade for a disgruntled veteran somewhere. If that's. If that's available. And if you've proven that you have the roster, you know, Matthew Stafford wanted to go to LA because he felt like he was the missing piece there. And, you know, it proved out to be the case. So. So build that out and make yourself an appealing destination and then. And see what's available to you.
- [23:22]
Alan Hahn
Well, that's what Rogers was supposed to be, let's be honest.
- [23:24]
NBA Commentator
Right.
- [23:24]
Alan Hahn
Like, that's really what that was supposed to be. It just only lasted.
- [23:27]
Don Hahn
Yes.
- [23:28]
Alan Hahn
About three plays, and then that was. That was certainly the end of that. Well, I know you covered baseball long enough. Do you still tune into Home Run Derby and All Star Games and stuff like that, or are you getting, like, me, where the All Star Games are kind of played out?
- [23:45]
Dan Graziano
I like the baseball All Star Game still. Yeah. I mean, we'll probably have the Home Run Derby on tonight because my boys are home from college and they like it. My main connection to baseball now is my fantasy team. So, like, this is the worst part of the year. There's like four days where there's no games. So I don't know. I don't love the All Star break, but I do like the game. I think it's. Of the All Star Games, it's the most true to the real game.
- [24:14]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [24:14]
Dan Graziano
Still of any.
- [24:16]
NBA Commentator
By far.
- [24:16]
Dan Graziano
And I think that makes it a lot of fun to watch. You know, some pitching tends to dominate, but that. That never bothered me. I. I kind of like that. So, yeah, we'll have it on for sure. It's. Yeah, for sure.
- [24:29]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. Well, enjoy it and thanks so much for giving me a few minutes here and good luck on your tour. Be good to catch up with you then.
- [24:37]
Google Health Advertiser
Take care. Thanks.
- [24:38]
Alan Hahn
Dan Graziano, he's one of the best we have. He's a wealth of information. But also I love, like, one of the things that, like, you know, getting away from being a sports writer where you go and you cover stuff and it is fun sometimes to just tell your newspaper or at least for Danny tells espn. All right, I'm going to go visit these training camps and I'm going to spend a couple of days at these different places. And you just kind of hang around a team, you get to know the league, and it's. It is such a great experience to be able to do stuff like that because it's reason why you then become somebody who's a fountain of information. You can do those things. And you also learn about, like, what teams think about other teams. So it's not necessarily like, when he goes to LA and he does the Chargers, then he'll do the Rams, and then he's in Southern California. We all know the Giants are also. I mean, the Giants, the Cowboys are there. So you go down and you see them. You're also finding out what they think of other teams and they say about other teams. So it's great. Just fill the notebook. Graz does it every year. It's a lot of fun, especially when he's in the midst of it and he's bouncing around. So he's going to start doing that in a couple of weeks, just as training camps begin in a couple of weeks.
- [25:45]
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- [26:14]
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- [26:46]
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- [27:16]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [27:20]
Dan Graziano
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [27:21]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:29]
Alan Hahn
It is time for your weekend recap, brought to you by neutral. Of course it's brought to you by neutral. What am I thinking?
- [27:35]
NBA Commentator
The heat needed to be a little more neutral.
- [27:37]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, well, maybe not. Maybe it was just time to not be neutral. Maybe it was time to just let all the feelings out. So the NBA Summer League is going on in Vegas. And so you'll get a confluence of players who will use any excuse to go to Vegas, especially on the team's dime. Second of all, it's. You come in, you represent your team, you go to some games, watch the young guys play, hang out in Vegas and get some workouts in. And what we saw on Friday was two former teammates crossing paths. Tyler Hero, as you know, was traded to Milwaukee in the deal for Giannis Antenna Compo. Bam Adebayo now is teammates with Giannis. So now Bam and Hero are no longer teammates. And I guess Tyler Hero, who's. I mean, he's. He's a little quirky, this guy. I. I have a great respect for Bam. I think Bam is a competitor. I think he. You know, he plays hard. I think he represents the whole Heat culture thing to the right way. And we all know he had that insane game, 80 points that he scored against the Wizards, which was weird, but he did it. So as the story goes, why did the two of them have a confrontation on a practice court at Resorts World Casino in Vegas in front of an AAU team Friday morning? That's what went down. It happened in front of an AU team, and it's so bizarre. But what it started with, if you're not surprised, please joined the 21st century. Hero responding to a DM from a fan that was critical of him in his play, and Hiro couldn't resist and started being critical of Adebayo. Now, why would you do that? Why would you even bother responding to anybody, especially somebody you don't know and you want to fire back? And the line that he used, that really kind of set things off. Oh, let me also add that once he responded to this fan, what'd you think the fan did? Screenshotted it. A dm, which is supposed to be a private conversation, made it public. So, of course, Bam saw it. And Bam's a guy that. When. When Hiro and Adebayo was doing, like, an interview together in Miami during the past season, I think Hero asked Bam, like, hey, of all the guys on the team, who would you trust most to have your back in a fight? And Bam just said, you, because, you know, we've been teammates for a long time, so there's that built in trust. So it's coincidence that the two of them would get into a fight. I don't know if it was a fight more than just a punch thrown, because Bam connected with Hero's right eye and clocked him pretty good. But he had reason to do this, first of all, Hero talks a lot of trash. People don't know this. He's kind of this skinny white guy. He's very talented, but he's got this attitude of cockiness about him. And guys that say that when you scrimmage with him, he's, you know, he'll rile you up. You know, he'll talk some trash. He likes it. It gets him fired up. He wants to see you get fired up. He's just one of those guys. And so Bam knows, like, he's like that. And the DM thing that came to his, that that was presented to him was basically criticizing his defense or at least how often he plays defense, because of all the criticisms that Hero was facing from this guy who sent him DMS, Hero responded saying, you should get paid 60 million to be a top tier defender on some nights. And you know, for Adebayo, that that's his calling card, really. I know he had a big scoring performance that we all talk about, but he's really a, a defender, tough, physical player, not really a great offensive talent. He also, like, made fun of him. Like, I think he called out like one of the analytics about his mid range. It's like stupid stuff. Again. I go back to why, you know, it's the old don't press send, Herm Edwards thing. Like, don't press send. What are you doing? But he had to. He couldn't resist. So he did. And now, of course, it's presented to Bam. And now all this, this private trash talking you were doing with a stranger goes to Bam. And Bam's like, oh, really? This is what you really think about me? I thought we were boys. And he handled it like men. He let them know and he clocked him. And so to Hero's credit, he just let it go. Didn't want to talk about it, didn't make a big deal about it, whatever it is. But it's a very strange thing. It also shows you something about the NBA, about pro sports. You know, the Lindor Soto thing is a great example. Here we talk so much about how everybody's got to be best friends and everybody has to get along. You don't have to get along, but there has to be a mutual respect. That's all it is. It's an understanding and a respect. Everybody has a place. A locker room in the pros is like anything else. Everybody understands where they are, what's your place, what's your role, all that. And when that's established, you can have tranquility. But when there's like this kind of argument over who should be who. That always starts to appear. It starts to show itself. And whether it's when you're still teammates, that can come out. And I think with the Mets, they ran into that. But I think in the case of the Heat, Bam found out what Tyler Herro really thought of him once he left. Maybe Hiro felt away because Bam, you know, was glad to move on from. Or maybe the Heat were glad to move on from. So of course he's going to feel away. Oh, you trading me? I mean, they traded you for Giannis. Let's not get carried away.
- [33:30]
Jake
It's not nobody.
- [33:31]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, that's not nobody. But still. And they send you home, too. You're from Wisconsin. But it's just. To me, it does show you, though, that within teammates and teams, there are always underlying egos that fight. And there's always going to be that battle of alphas that goes on.
- [33:53]
NBA Commentator
Well, your friends, until you don't have
- [33:54]
Alan Hahn
to be that, too.
- [33:56]
NBA Commentator
Is that kind of.
- [33:56]
Alan Hahn
But guys, honestly, do we need to go into DMS against strangers saying stuff about guys who you were just running with?
- [34:03]
NBA Commentator
Now, KD didn't do it in dms, but he kind of. I don't want to say he started it, but when you talk about prominent NBA figures clapping back at people on social media, KD is very much well known for it. Now, anybody growing up is going to see somebody else like KD doing it. Go. I could do that, too. And especially guys that are overconfident. Look at Cam Schlitler. He. He has, like, bulletin board material from every Red Sox fan that says he hates his guts.
- [34:25]
Alan Hahn
That's what he uses, though, for fire. That's much different. See, to me, KD going, fans, that's him. First of all, I think he just. I think KD just loves the back and forth.
- [34:35]
Jake
He lives off of that. That's what drives him.
- [34:37]
Alan Hahn
That's what I'm saying. Like, he likes that stuff and he has fun with it. And I think he thinks it's like, I know this guy is going to get a kick out of this, so I'm going to respond to him and go back and forth and have it out, because he knows for that fan, I just made his day. Even if it's hate, it's still something like, part of kd, I think, just lives off of, like, I'm making this dude's day right now. Watch this. But this is different. Hero saying that about a teammate. Like, it's one thing if you're protecting yourself or. Or debating about yourself, but him bringing in Adebay, like, you're talking about my defense. How about the guy making 60 million? He plays defense once in a while. Yo, like, why would you drag him in on this? That's the part that I feel like Hero overstepped the line. And so are we all in agreement that as much as it's not right to assault someone, Didn't Hero have it coming?
- [35:28]
Jake
He. He had it coming. And he also has had his brushings. What? Last season with us with Amin Thompson, this season with kd, they got kind of got a back and forth. So he has this reputation of, you know, getting under your skin, like you said.
- [35:42]
Alan Hahn
So it does. Always skinny guys.
- [35:45]
Google Chrome Advertiser
Yeah,
- [35:47]
Alan Hahn
always a skinny guy. Now, should the NBA do anything about
- [35:50]
Jake
this, they're probably going to investigate the. Based on, like, what they find out. I don't just. Just find them, like, $50,000 and move on with it, whatever it is. Right? Yeah.
- [36:00]
Alan Hahn
Draymond, Jordan, Poole thing, which. Oh, by the way, a result like sort of this residual thing that you donis. Haslam, who, you know, again, wears Heat culture like a badge, represents it as well as anybody that ever played for the Heat. He and Draymond then get after it because Draymond reacted to this saying how everybody, you know, got mad at me about him and Poole when he said that was more of an internal thing. And he kind of took a shot, I guess, at the Heat culture stuff and brought up UD because UD was very critical of Draymond for doing it. And then UD stepped in almost like, if. Have you ever. Have you read? It's too long for me to read right now, but I read.
- [36:41]
NBA Commentator
I read it.
- [36:42]
Alan Hahn
What. What Haslam said to Draymond.
- [36:45]
NBA Commentator
There's a lot going on there.
- [36:46]
Alan Hahn
Yo, that's one of those where if you're Draymond, you go, okay, sir, thank you. Because I'm telling you, I've spent time with ud. I got to know him. He's as top shelf a human being as you'll meet, but he's also a guy that if you cross him, it's not a guy you want to cross.
- [37:01]
Jake
Oh, no.
- [37:01]
Alan Hahn
Like, he stands on business.
- [37:03]
Jake
Like, him, like, James Johnson is another guy. Like black belt, MMA fight.
- [37:07]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. He's another one that says, when we meet, we're going to deal with this. You know what's coming the next time you see him. There's no. There's no wondering what's going to happen. You already know what's going to happen. So that that came as like a. Like a residual of this confrontation, but it just shows you again, when it comes to teammates and all this stuff, we have this vision of everybody just loving each other and getting along. Not always true. And sometimes you don't find out until after the fact. Which is why on the Mets side of things, the Mets are going to be forced into making a decision between Lindor and Soto sooner rather than late later. And that is certainly something we can, you know, get into coming up because there certainly is more to that story that we need to discuss. So there's that. There's also one more I don't have time for right now, but Conor McGregor and what happened this weekend is also something we need to get into. So there's a lot more to do here.
- [38:04]
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- [38:35]
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- [39:00]
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- [39:07]
Alan Hahn
Hang on.
- [39:08]
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- [39:31]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [39:35]
Dan Graziano
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [39:36]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:44]
Alan Hahn
All right, One other thing that happened over the weekend to talk about here that was not part of our weekend recap was UFC and Conor McGregor's return to the Octagon. First and foremost. Before all that, Jake, did you see Sophie Cunningham?
- [40:03]
Jake
Oh, no, I Did not. I missed that.
- [40:05]
Alan Hahn
You watched it, didn't you?
- [40:07]
Jake
No, I saw the clips online.
- [40:10]
Alan Hahn
I thought you told me you watched the fight.
- [40:11]
Jake
No, no, no, no, no. I just saw the. Was 69 second clip of McGregor.
- [40:16]
Alan Hahn
The McGregor part was. Was short. But she was a ring girl. Yes, she was. Oh, you don't think. Showed up.
- [40:23]
Jake
Guys, give me like 30 minutes. I'll be back.
- [40:26]
Alan Hahn
Jake's gonna go find that clip. Yeah. For some reason, you're just gonna have that on repeat, aren't you? Yeah, so. So the WNBA star showed up, and as Dana White told the story, she was. Because we know, first of all, swimsuit model, the whole thing, like, she's really turned her career. I mean, not only as a basketball player, but she's. She's modeled, she's done a lot of stuff. Not afraid to have, you know, people appreciate her looks. And she just was like, you know, I guess she saw a ring girl holding up the card and just said in a group, like, I want to do that. And Dana White's like, okay, you're doing it. Like, it wasn't pre planned, it wasn't set up. She just happened to just say, I'd like to do that.
- [41:10]
NBA Commentator
Only in the ufc.
- [41:11]
Alan Hahn
Right. And he's like, okay, grab a card.
- [41:13]
Dan Graziano
You're up.
- [41:14]
Alan Hahn
And so she went up and the rest is history.
- [41:17]
Jake
I must say. I just looked at it. Yeah, I didn't miss much, I guess.
- [41:21]
Don Hahn
What?
- [41:22]
Jake
And I'm a fan of most now,
- [41:23]
Alan Hahn
why would you say that?
- [41:25]
Jake
Didn't miss much.
- [41:26]
Alan Hahn
Okay, you say so. I don't know. I mean, that. That takes some guts. But anyway, that was probably the highlight of the night when you consider that the fight that was supposed to be the glorified, the. The celebrated return of Conor McGregor landed. It lasted a minute. You said 63 seconds, right?
- [41:51]
Jake
Yeah, about 69, I think. Was that official Town? That's right.
- [41:57]
Alan Hahn
This was not a glorious return. And Dana White talked about the expectations of this and how what was hyped up for so long did not really match. Like the, I guess the end result, which is never good, especially for ufc. It's never good that the hype did not match the end result.
- [42:20]
NBA Analyst
Listen, everybody who knows anything about the fight business, and it's been a big topic of discussion leading up to this fight. Five years off in this. In this sport is rough. And like you said, great card. Unbelievable. I mean, the Patty Pimblett thing right before you just feel it all in the air. Here we go. I mean, I was expecting at least a one round War or you know, who knew what Conor was capable of as far as cardio or whatever else after a five year layoff. And there you go. I mean we're assuming blown acl. I'm no doctor, but that's what I figured when I saw it. And doctors think the same thing too.
- [42:55]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. And that's, that's pretty much what happened. He will get surgery on that knee. I guess he tried to kick against Max Holloway and right there is when like everyone assumes that the, the knee snapped and you could see like when, when the, when the fight ended, he got pummeled, he had nothing left. And when the fight ended, he's limping, he limp right out of the building. You see, he didn't even go in the back. He went right to the car.
- [43:22]
NBA Commentator
Yeah, he, he was not going to take any questions.
- [43:24]
Alan Hahn
Well, would you?
- [43:25]
Don Hahn
No.
- [43:26]
NBA Commentator
He says he's gonna fight again, but of course he hasn't even had the surgery yet. So he's got to see what the rehab looks like.
- [43:31]
Alan Hahn
But yeah, he's 38 years old. He hasn't. And as we said, he hasn't fought in five years. He's done a lot of other things.
- [43:38]
NBA Commentator
Yes, he has.
- [43:39]
Alan Hahn
He's wanted to do, but he wanted to get back. And does this frustrate you guys in, in the sense that we get this sometimes where you get this big card, this big name that's older and is trying to draw from his fame instead of like we love the come up stuff but after a while it just kind of gets tiresome when you see these guys who are past their prime and they're just trying to make money off their name and how many people are suckered into it?
- [44:09]
NBA Commentator
Well, it was actually just the whole thing. Alan was disappointing because even Dana mentioned it. As cool as it was that Patty Pimblett had the first round submission that was only a 53 second fight.
- [44:18]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [44:19]
NBA Commentator
So your main and your co main
- [44:20]
Alan Hahn
were under around and didn't have any real brawls or any type of really good fight.
- [44:25]
NBA Commentator
It really was over when it started. Like Patty got the guy down, submitted him pretty much instantly. Connor goes for a kick and his leg gives out.
- [44:34]
Alan Hahn
Yikes.
- [44:34]
NBA Commentator
And those are your two fights. But you were right. Look, and even Dana said it, he hoped it was a one round battle where at least Connor showed something because he figured that his cardio probably isn't where it, where it was when he was, you know, fighting five years ago.
- [44:47]
Alan Hahn
Right.
- [44:47]
NBA Commentator
So you didn't expect to be a long fight anyway, but at least you get Some haymakers from Connor and didn't even get that. You really didn't even get any punches. It was. It was disappointing, to say the least.
- [44:55]
Alan Hahn
You got one kick and your body gave out on you. McGregor said something a while ago that I think when you. When you see that scene, his quote was, there's no hiding in the octagon. And you know what? How right was he? How prophetic was he about his own career? Like, you can't fake your way through a fight like that. Not in the octagon. You can't walk in on reputational. Like, you can get away with that in a lot of team sports. You can kind of get away with hiding within it. But like that, to me, this sport, I think, you know, with Serena, with tennis, right, how she's trying to make a comeback. Doubles, okay. Singles. She did battle, right. At least she fought. But you could see that it. There was not enough. It's not about, like, the brand you are and all that stuff. If you're not prepared, if you haven't really put the time in, like, to. To like, not. I'm not saying, you know, did he train for the fight? Of course he did. But, like, if you haven't fought in five years, you can't just wake up and go, hey, I just want to fight. Let's. Let's.
- [46:04]
Google Chrome Advertiser
Let me.
- [46:04]
Alan Hahn
Let me get a couple of weeks to get ready and I'll be ready. No, it's not going to happen. That's what makes it so special, to get to that level, to fight for a belt in boxing, ufc, whatever it is. That's the climb, the come up, all that stuff. Once you're out, it's so hard. That's what makes, you know, what. What George Foreman did to me still is one of the most remarkable things we've ever seen in sports, don't you think? Not only because of his age, but because of the fact that he had been gone for so long, he was able to come back and still beat prime boxers and still be a champion. That doesn't happen in anything else. I don't think it. I think it's almost impossible to do. So McGregor tried it. It does feel like a bit of a money grab, not a bit of one. I think it is one. And the next time, if he is going to fight one more time, which he says he wants to come back, if he does, you falling for the banana and tailpipe.
- [47:02]
NBA Commentator
Well, are you going to let him? Main event again? That's the question.
- [47:06]
Alan Hahn
But doesn't his name draw Main event.
- [47:09]
NBA Commentator
It can't not. Right.
- [47:10]
Google Health Advertiser
Right.
- [47:10]
Alan Hahn
Because it's too big a name to not like you can make it. You can't even make it like a. You can't even make it a lead up.
- [47:17]
Jake
No.
- [47:17]
NBA Commentator
You can't be a co main either.
- [47:18]
Google Health Advertiser
No.
- [47:19]
Alan Hahn
He's got to be on the marquee, but it's not on the marquee because it's going to be a great fight. He's on the marquee because of who he is and he's got a big fan base. But are you going to be fooled again? I. I'm telling you, I, I did not even think about this fight until Friday. And then after that I'm like, well, let's see how it goes. Because I can't stand these guys that leave it, try to become celebrities, realize the money isn't there anymore. How do I make my money? Oh, go back to the well. And I feel like they sucker fans and that's kind of what this feels like. And if I'm Dana White, you can hear it in his voice. He's kind of embarrassed. He's like, I don't want us to be about this. But they were. So that's another thing that happened over the weekend.
- [48:08]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [48:11]
Alan Hahn
I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good.
- [48:14]
Don Hahn
Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.
- [48:26]
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