Hour 2: Dart's Last Game, For Now

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast – Hour 2: Dart's Last Game, For Now

Date: August 21, 2025
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, (Don La Greca referenced, not present)

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" delivers the trio's signature blend of sports analysis, New York banter, and cultural commentary—anchored by an in-depth discussion about the New York Giants' quarterback situation (especially rookie Jackson Dart), Don La Greca's new role with the New Jersey Devils, and a deeper dive into Yankee history via the "Thursday Rewrite" segment. The hosts also sprinkle in light, self-aware debates, fan interaction, and some pointed reflections on sports media narratives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Don La Greca's New Role with the Devils (00:44–07:08)

• Don’s Commercial: Alan and Peter enthusiastically critique La Greca's new role and TV commercial as the Devil's broadcaster, riffing on Don’s look and on-air persona.
  • “You got a butt, we got a seat. Get over to the Rock, my man. This season.” – Don La Greca, commercial (03:18)
  • “If that's what we're gonna get on television, then we gotta get back on TV as fast as possible.” – Alan Hahn (02:58)
• Chemistry With Ken Daneyko: The hosts praise the pairing, likening Don and Daneyko’s vibe to “guys you could see just throwing on leather jackets, jumping on motorcycles and just flying down.” (06:47)
• “Wolf of Weehawken”: Rosenberg coins a nickname for Don’s new finance-bro-adjacent energy (04:09).
• Fraud Friday Tease: A light teasing of “Fraud Friday,” noting a “fraudulent” detail in Don’s commercial to be revealed the next day (05:10–06:13).

2. ESPN App & WWE Crossover (07:08–08:12)

• ESPN App Update: Peter is amazed by WWE content finally being integrated into the ESPN app. Both hosts reflect on how much opposition there once was within ESPN to including pro wrestling.
  • “It’s just a crazy thing to now see all this WWE stuff here. There were just people who so never wanted this…” – Peter Rosenberg (08:00)

3. Giants Preseason and Jackson Dart's Development (08:13–21:03)

• Preseason Overview: The Giants play the Patriots, but with starters sitting, rookie Jackson Dart is the primary intrigue. Hahn gives a detailed account of Dart’s progress and the organization's careful approach.
  • “He has not turned it over. … Especially in preseason, because you're told to be a little more aggressive and you don't know what you don't know.” – Alan Hahn (09:03)
• Quarterback Plan: Debate about whether Dart will dress as a backup or remain inactive to develop slowly behind Wilson & Winston.
  • “You don’t want to see ghosts.” – Peter Rosenberg (10:05)
  • “Let him sit in that quarterback room and watch Russell Wilson, a veteran, operate.” – Alan Hahn (10:07)
• When To Start Dart?: Alan lays out possible periods for Dart's starting debut: post-bye week, or if the season slips away, maybe for the final four games. The difficulties of throwing a rookie in too soon are analyzed in the context of the Giant’s schedule.
  • “I can’t see the Giants with this schedule bringing him in any earlier than post-bye.” – Alan Hahn (19:09)
  • “If the season is lost, do you have them come out of the buy and you kind of just say, okay... This is a good place to put the kid in and see what he's about?” – Alan Hahn (15:08)
• Importance of Locker Room Fit: The hosts stress that Dart’s personality and presence are as reassuring as his play.
  • “The room loves this kid. That's also helpful when his time does come, he'll have support.” – Alan Hahn (12:45)
• Jordan Raanan's Report: Giants beat reporter Jordan Raanan confirms that, “Russell Wilson is our starter. We're going to continue to develop Jackson Dart,” and notes QB coach Shea Tierney's high praise for Dart’s learning and processing (20:09).

4. Elite Quarterback Traits: IQ vs. Athleticism (21:03–24:16)

• Attribute Draft: Alan challenges Peter to allocate 15 ‘points’ between QB intellect (processing/IQ) and athleticism; a light, analytical debate follows.
  • “Where are you allocating the numbers? … You want to be elite in something.” – Alan Hahn (21:31)
• Naming Names: Discussion of QBs who excel at both (e.g., Lamar Jackson, Jaden Daniels), why high processing ability is essential, and examples (Brady, Zach Wilson, Anthony Richardson).
  • “Lamar Jackson might be a 10 in both.” – Peter Rosenberg (23:03)
• AFC Quarterback Storylines: Rosenberg notes the “four absolute legends” at the position, but only Mahomes has a Super Bowl title—mirroring the 80s with Montana, Elway, and Marino (24:16).

5. Thursday Rewrite: The 1990 Steinbrenner Ban and Yankee Dynasty (28:26–40:00)

• Historical Fork: The segment asks: What if George Steinbrenner hadn’t been banned in 1990? Would the Yankees' legendary “Core Four” (Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte) and Bernie Williams have come together?
  • Plays archival Steinbrenner tape reflecting on letting young players develop (28:43).
  • “Does the Core Four ever happen? Does Bernie Williams end up being traded for some other...you know, for Joseph Shablotnik?” – Alan Hahn (32:46)
• Core Four vs. Core Five: Peter and Alan muse that Bernie’s earlier arrival excludes him from “Core Four” branding—but statistically and in impact, he could belong.
  • “Is it just sort of like silly happenstance that by Bernie getting there early, he's not part of the core four? Like, shouldn't it really be... the live five?” – Peter Rosenberg (37:57)

6. TV Careers, Networking, and Friendly Ribbing (43:49–45:52)

• TV Career Banter: A playful back-and-forth about networking (“kissing ass”) and career success. The hosts joke about Don being less socially engaged but still landing his dream job.
  • “That's not kissing ass. It's called networking.” – Alan Hahn (44:56)
• Twitter/Fan Feedback: Peter reads some social media jabs, highlighting the ribbing they take on and off air.

7. NFL Media Narratives & The Commanders (46:02–49:57)

• Commanders "Step Back" Prediction: Peter vents about the “lazy, stupid narrative” that Washington will regress simply because their 12-5 record was unexpected.
  • “It is the most boring, repetitive... None of you are basing in anything except the fact that the Commanders somehow got to 12 and 5 last year.” – Peter Rosenberg (46:58)
• Analytics Perspective: Anthony explains, per Bill Barnwell’s research, why analytic models predict regression for teams with high luck in close games.
  • “They were 8 and 1 in games decided by 7 points or less…law of averages…” – Anthony (47:28)
• Bigger Picture: Alan draws parallels with the Lions and Texans and how perception of success can depend on expectations, not just records.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don's Commercial Energy:

  • "You got a butt, we got a seat. Get over to the Rock, my man. This season." – Don La Greca’s line (03:18)
  • "That's a great line, by the way. You got a butt, we got a seat. This is...so good." – Alan Hahn (03:32)

• Quarterback Development and Risk:

  • "Let him sit in that quarterback room and watch Russell Wilson... See how the week to week thing goes. Right. Instead of being in it week to week, you're still there, but it's not on you." – Alan Hahn (10:07)

• Quarterback Trait Allocation:

  • "So, you want—I'm using 10 in one category. I would put...because you don't have to be an 8 athlete at quarterback." – Alan Hahn (22:18)
  • "Lamar Jackson might be a 10 in both." – Peter Rosenberg (23:03)
  • "I'm not saying this just to hate. I've seen so many Jabronis make throws like that and have moments like that in the preseason. We will not really know what we have until we see him play a real game." – Peter Rosenberg (12:01)

• Yankee History "Rewrite":

  • "If he doesn't get banned, Peter... does the Core Four ever happen? Does Bernie Williams end up being traded for some other...you know, for Joseph Shablotnik, who doesn't pan out in New York?" – Alan Hahn (32:46)

• Media Criticism:

  • "It is the most boring, repetitive... None of you are basing in anything except the fact that the Commanders somehow got to 12 and 5 last year." – Peter Rosenberg (46:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Don’s Devil's Commercial & Wolf of Weehawken: 02:35 – 07:08
• Giants Preseason and Jackson Dart's Development: 08:13 – 21:03
• Attribute Draft: QB IQ vs Athleticism: 21:31 – 24:16
• Thursday Rewrite – Steinbrenner and Yankee Dynasty: 28:26 – 40:00
• Core Four/Core Five Debate: 37:56 – 40:34
• TV Networking Banter & Ribbing: 43:49 – 45:53
• Commanders Narrative Rant: 46:02 – 49:57

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Tone, Style & Language

Casually sharp, irreverent, and big-hearted, the hosts oscillate between serious sports assessment, inside-joke banter, and authentic, slightly exasperated fan energy. They riff on one another, share direct criticism of lazy sports takes, and occasionally break for nostalgia or personal career stories—always infusing segments with New York attitude and camaraderie.

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This summary covers the main themes, crucial moments, and memorable debates from this episode, offering an engaging recount for those who missed the broadcast or want to focus on the sports substance and signature exchanges of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg.

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers, 4:02.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, Han and Rosenberg. More Han and Rosenberg today. Are you in next week, Alan?

[Alan Hahn]

Of course. That's it. I'm in forever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're in, baby.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm locked.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it's you and Don next week.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then we all find Paris.

[Alan Hahn]

Peter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Paris, Peter we find Peter's in Paris.

[Alan Hahn]

Why don't you rewrite that song?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's hilarious to say, couldn't you do it? Peter's in Paris? Because you're really saying Peter is in Paris, but you can flip it into Peter's in Paris.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it really works.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. You're welcome.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You are a genius, my friend.

[Alan Hahn]

Sometimes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you a Paris guy?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're a fan?

[Alan Hahn]

Very much.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I am, too.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. I loved it there. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, I think Paris is the place where Michael went and when he got back, kissed the floor at jfk or that might have been Tokyo. I can't remember another place I looked.

[Alan Hahn]

I had a really good time there. Really good time. But you know what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, Michael's a different kind of cat now. Real quick, big shout out to all the football fans out there. Enter the ESPN New York Survivor pool for a chance to win five grand. Make your pick each week of the football season and find out how you stack up against your friends and favorite ESPN hosts. But be careful. One wrong pick, you're eliminated. The last one standing will take home the title. The second annual ESPN New York Survival Pool Champion at 5,000 bucks. Enter now on the ESPN New York app, powered by Splash Sports.com Allen. Let's hear a little bit of he's no longer just Donnie Pucks. He is now also Donny X. And we have some clips of Don from the Devil's commercial. Let's get a few clips of Don.

[Alan Hahn]

Of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know where I'm going. I Might be new, but I've been hearing millions. Do you hear that? It's him showing up to work dressed in his suit.

[Alan Hahn]

He's ready to go, looking good in the suit, and then he just. First of all, he never gets his hair and beard that way for radio. I mean, it was. It was glorious.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no, he looks.

[Alan Hahn]

He looks like it was flowing, luxurious. The beard was just on point. Like, if that's what we're gonna get on television, then we gotta get back on TV as fast as possible.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So in the commercial, Don finds himself in the devil's office, and then he just starts answering phones and. And. And. And you can play a bunch here, guys.

[Alan Hahn]

Here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's what ensues. New Jersey Devils. This is Don. You want to buy tickets? I don't really sell tickets. You got a butt, we got a seat. Get over to the Rock, my man. This season.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a great line, by the way. You got a butt, we got a seat. This is. I mean, come on. So good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think this next one is simple, but could be a drop. Let's hear it. Oh, that's good to hear, my man. What about this next one? Put another one on the board, baby.

[Anthony]

Like.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, as the commercial starts with him being sort of humble, but also, like, confident. And then more and more, he just starts morphing into the aggressive Wall street trader, you know, like the. He turned into a finance bro, like, by the end of the commercial. Yeah, it was so good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's why you call him the Wolf. A wee hawking.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And here's your favorite part. Please don't forget, if njd Negotiate, justify, deliver.

[Alan Hahn]

We talked about this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right here, let me give.

[Alan Hahn]

So good, so good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then lastly, let's close him out here with the end of Don spot. Oh, you're right, man. Summer camp is a game changer for sure. You gotta get those tickets. You gotta be here for every single game. You never know that night that Jack scores five goals or Markstrom makes 60 saves, man, you're gonna want to be here for every single one of those.

[Alan Hahn]

Things to sell, sell, sell. Donnie, look at him. You could tell he's back home. He's home now. Very comfortable. He speaks the language. He's just like. He could finally rid himself of faking it and really just be all in now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it's great. I'm just so happy for him, man.

[Alan Hahn]

How could you not be? I mean, you could see how thrilled he is. He's giddy. Downright giddy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now I can't become a Devils Fan. You guys know that. But man.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you don't have to be. See, here's the thing. Like this fraud. Friday's tomorrow. And there is one thing in the commercial that we're not going to reveal here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You did though. You revealed it publicly.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. But not. Not on the air. But there is something fraudulent in the commercial that we do need to discuss tomorrow. And I guess we're going to need a guest judge because Don's. I hear.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's us though. We judge.

[Alan Hahn]

We judge. Yeah. All right. Well, anyways, so there's. That's the one thing. But I. I don't think it's fraudulent to be a little more engaged in the Devils just for Don. Like, how about this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a great call.

[Alan Hahn]

Devil's Blue Jackets on a Wednesday on MSG. LaGreca, Danico, you're locked in Devil's Oilers on a, you know, ESPN vehicle. Random. I might not watch that. Right, that's it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, I completely get it.

[Alan Hahn]

But like Devil's Oilers, TNT on a. On a. On a Tuesday. I'm not doing it because it's not done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Exactly.

[Alan Hahn]

And I'm not that interested.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct.

[Alan Hahn]

So I'm not being a fraud. I'm following my guy and I want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To hear his call, especially opening night. I want to see what he looks like. I want to see up top when he introduces things. And it's Don. It's Don and Kentanica.

[Alan Hahn]

These two. Forget it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's like, it's one of Don's good friends. This is one of the all time boyhood dream come true stories.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's also two guys that are like, the chemistry just is so obvious. Two guys you could see just throwing on leather jackets, jumping on motorcycles and just flying down, you know, like the Devils are playing the Panthers now. We're not taking a flight. We're just going to take the Harleys down. You know what I mean? Like that the two of them fit that mold so well. Perfect.

[Peter Rosenberg]

God. So I just download the new ESPN app. I'm going through it. Yeah, I'm in the WWE section.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that's it. I lost you. No, I lost you didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just so crazy. You don't like the amount of fighting I did here. And this is admittedly, this is different era bosses.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so I have to download a new app.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it was an update. It was an update for the ESPN app that brings you to it and it says ESPN all in one place.

[Alan Hahn]

Hmm. I don't. I don't have an update.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't see that your ESPN app has an update.

[Alan Hahn]

No. Oh, wait.

[Anthony]

Pretty sure you already did, Alan.

[Alan Hahn]

No, it does. There it is. I had to let it just. I had to give it a second and then it gave me this update alert. All right, I'm excited.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's just, it's just a crazy thing to now see all this WWE stuff here. There were just people who so never wanted this and fought against it so hard. And to see it happen in such a big way is just, it's so cool. All right, let's talk.

[Alan Hahn]

You want football? You want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I want foosball. I want it. I want it all. Give it to me.

[Alan Hahn]

You want it now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I even, I even care about tonight's Giants preseason game now.

[Alan Hahn]

Giants Patriots, Met Life, eight o'. Clock. So while the Yankees and Red Sox are, are battling at, in the Bronx at Yankee stadium, over at MetLife, you're getting a little preseason action on Giants Patriots. Now, obviously this, this is the game that your guys are trying to make the team. So most people who are on the team are, you know, you're not going to see regulars in this one. You're going to see like Jackson dart is the thing that everybody's excited about. And look, he has been good through the first two preseason games. 26 of 35, two touchdowns, rush for 29 yards, rush for a touchdown, has not turned it over. Which to me, when it's called, when you talk about rookie quarterbacks, even in preseason, it's still rookie quarterbacks turn the ball over. It just happens. It's part of the deal, especially in preseason, because you're told to be a little more aggressive and you don't know what you don't know. He has not turned it over. He also was really good against the Jets. Now, I don't know how much the jets defensively, like I've heard from on the jets side of things, that they were very vanilla, what they were doing. They were not really all in. So who knows? But I think there's enough anticipation about this guy that as I've said to you from the start of the week, the Giants love him. They feel really good about what he can be, but they're also being very careful not to do, not to do anything to try to accelerate the development because one false move and he could, you know, he could be traumatized. We've seen it in this, we've seen it in the NFL.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't want to see ghosts.

[Alan Hahn]

You don't want anything. You don't want him being in a Situation also where maybe he gets hurt just because he doesn't know what he doesn't know, or maybe a mistake happens that suddenly now creates, you know, a hitch. You just let him sit in that quarterback room and watch Russell Wilson, a veteran, operate. Watch the team operate. See how the week to week thing goes. Right. Instead of being in it week to week, you're still there, but it's not on you. And Dable's been really good throughout training camp in testing the kid. So, you know, a lot of times, you know, you're the third quarterback, whatever it is, these aren't your reps. So you're just waiting for your turn. Maybe not paying close attention, but watching. Then all of a sudden they will be like, get in. And you're calling plays and the kid has to be ready. He wants you to stay locked in. So those are things to watch. Now I'm still curious to see if he's going to be the backup or if he's going to be the quarterback. That doesn't dress because Jameis Winston, I mean Brandon Brown, the assistant gm, said that they're not trading him, that he's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If that's the case, then, then it's got to be dart, not dressing.

[Alan Hahn]

But don't I guess the point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's the point of dressing?

[Alan Hahn]

You know what? You're right. Because if Russ gets hurt, which Russ tends to do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Could happen.

[Alan Hahn]

Then you'd want to make sure you have a. Like that's the last thing you want to do is to throw the kid in now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. So now we're throwing him in week one. Then. Then you totally went away from your plan. So my guess is he'll be hanging out in street clothes and he's got.

[Alan Hahn]

To have a headset.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Have the headset on and learn it all. I mean, listen, I, I just rewatched for the second time now his full highlight from the Jet game and I will stand by what I said on our pre show meeting, which is that he looks competent, does a nice job using the word sensational.

[Alan Hahn]

That was John is madness. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, his hands down best ball was the touchdown over the middle. And it's a nice little strike. Yeah, no question he had time, but it was a good look in stride. Love to see it. But guys, I'm just being honest. This is, and I think Giants fans at this point trust me enough to know I'm not saying this just to hate. I've seen so many Jabronis make throws like that and have moments like that in the preseason. We will not really know what we have until we see him play a real game. And I think, Alan, you've been talking about this. The thing that gets you probably the most excited about Jackson Dart so far is more the way he carries himself than the football that he's played. Because you just can't really judge what you've seen.

[Alan Hahn]

And here's a guy that a lot of people talk about, the room and that's also been a big thing is like, you know, there's 52 other players in there that want to win now. And if you put a rookie in, that could mess the room up because I guess not trying to win. We're only here to develop and all that stuff. The room loves this kid. That's also helpful when his time does come, he'll have support, I believe, because. Because his likability is off the charts and he's genuine about it too. So I think that's the scenario we're going to see is street clothes, headset and also I would probably think a lot of quizzing him. Why do you think we did that there? Why do we do this here? So he's mentally, his head's into it. And at some point during the season, I think especially before the trade deadline, you have Russ first and you're going to play him. And we know there's still some tread on the tire, but it's not a lot. We know this. We saw it in Pittsburgh. You know, he had moments and then of course he had moments where you were just frustrated. I think with Russ you're just getting through it. If things don't go well with Russ, you have Jameis and you give him again out of respect, a shot. But at some point and when you look at the schedule, you're trying to find that point in the season because as I told you, it's commanders, Cowboys, Chiefs and Chargers. First four weeks. October is where you get a little reprieve, where you go to New Orleans and you play a Saints team, they don't even know who their quarterback is. But then you play the Eagles in two of the next three weeks so that you can't put them like it can't be one month and okay, go to dart in October to play against the Saints because you still got to play the Eagles twice in a three week span. And the Broncos, by the way, in Denver, the Mile High and that's, you know, that's also not a place to throw a rookie in. So then what? Right now you get to November, you're home against the niners you really want to like is that the place at Chicago feels a little more like the way to do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Perhaps. But again, this is what makes us all so hard, man, is like if.

[Alan Hahn]

You'Re going to do it somewhere is what I'm saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but we just don't know where that team will be at this time. There are a lot of people think Chicago could be a step forward this year and maybe they're playing meaningful ball then.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I don't know. Obviously with. There's a great expectation there with Caleb and with. With Ben Johnson and the Bears are supposed to be better. But I'm trying to find the place in the season where there's still time left in the season to get an assessment of him as a player. But if you're just going to carry this in, the buy isn't until week 14. You're in December. At that point, all you have left is four games. Is that where you do it? If the season is lost, do you have them come out of the buy and you kind of just say, okay, the season's lost. We have four weeks left. This is a good place to put the kid in and see what he's about. And those last four games, home against the Commanders, home against the Vikings and then at the Raiders and then close against the Cowboys, which likely would be in January. So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And be meaningless. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And probably right. I mean, you never know. But you also like to me, that's the. I keep feeling like post buy is where you probably call like it's a wrap if you're no longer in it. And that we're talking about December 1st at Patriots before the buy. That's. Is that too late? I think four games to take you into the off season. I think you got to give it as long as you can, barring any injury, of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's the. Here's the hard.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm not rushing this kid. I'm just not doing it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The weird part is, is that those last two weeks, the. The Raiders and Cowboys, you don't know exactly what the level of meaning will be for those games. So there is a chance those games while full speed. And I know you think the Raiders.

[Alan Hahn]

Are going to have meaning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that's what I'm saying. Oh, that's what I'm saying. So, like you do want to see him playing games in which it's absolutely full speed. Everyone's going for it. Listen, Alan, I know that if we talk to Bart or Chris or a former player, they will tell us every game your Life is on the line. Every game matters. But I can tell you as a lifetime consumer, but that weeks 16 and 17 are now 17 and 18. You can catch some games that you're like, yeah, this feels closer to preseason than it did a month ago.

[Alan Hahn]

It definitely does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So if you can get to a world where you at least get him that Patriots, Commanders, Vikings, because you know, all three of those are going to be big time games for. In some capacity. Yeah, certainly the Commanders and the Vikings are again very, very well be playing games that matter.

[Alan Hahn]

Patriots are a Monday night. You're not debuting in that game and it's right before the buy, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why not?

[Alan Hahn]

Because you're not doing a Monday night game. You're not putting them in a Monday night game in New England. You're not doing that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, hold on. Don't say in New England like we're living in 12 years ago.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, no, come on. They're going to be better. Don't. I'm not sleeping on the Patriots. They're going to be better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm dead asleep.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, Dead asleep. That's fine. We'll revisit. We'll revisit. I am not sleeping on the Patriots. I think they're going to be. You thinking on December 1st that game's going to matter? Yes. To them. Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because they're trying to do what?

[Alan Hahn]

What do you mean? They're trying to make the playoffs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Then you want to go ahead and look at the AFC and tell me where they're trying to make it.

[Alan Hahn]

Mm. Well, again, we'll see how things go. Again, you get the buy, but I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like having the buy after it. I like the idea of playing a.

[Alan Hahn]

Game and then buy. No, because the buy is where he's probably gonna, you know, you get a few days ready, he gets a, you know, he'll get a handful of days off and then he'll be the first one back in the facility getting ready for his first start. That's my feeling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And get like 10 days and it's.

[Alan Hahn]

Against your commanders at home on the 14th of December, you know that game's going to matter to Washington. That's going to be a live game that you talk about like that's baptism by fire against your team. That's going to be a very good team. So I think that's important. And in Minnesota, you know, it's another one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They could be fighting for a playoffs.

[Alan Hahn]

You never know. Right. So those are live games now again at Raiders. And you know, who knows what Dallas is going to be? But Dallas also could be playing for some, but it doesn't matter if it's still a division, you're still playing an NFC east rival in the last game of the season. It could matter for Dallas, but even if it didn't matter for either team, it's still the Cowboys and the Giants. And I feel like that's the way to walk off the field your last game of the season. Maybe you do something that's special and make you feel good and carry it in. I just, like I said, I can't see the Giants with this schedule bring him in any earlier than post buy. I just don't see it. And everybody else is pushing this idea that they should be playing him sooner here's or even right out of the gate like Mike Tenenbaum is saying, which I think is insane. Well, Jordan renan was on SportsCenter. Now he covers the Giants. As we know, we love him here and so he gave us a little something on the Giants quarterback situation. So let's hear what how he describes right now the Giants QB situation.

[Jordan Renan]

The Giants have been adamant since the start of training and really since they signed Russell Wilson that he's going to be their starter. Even when they drafted Jackson Dart, that didn't change. Even when they started training camp, that didn't change as well. I even asked Brian Dabel the other day, I said, you know, can Jackson Dart work? Is there anything Jackson Dart could do to work his way into the starting mix? And he said, russell Wilson is our starter. We're going to continue to develop Jackson Dart. Now I spoke to quarterbacks coach Shay Tierney earlier today, said what has impressed him the most about Dart, Why has he gotten better throughout the summer? And he noted his ability to retain and take in information. He thought that was perhaps the most impressive thing about Dart so far. It has made him more comfortable in the offense. You see him getting the ball out quicker. So that is a big difference. You think you've seen a big difference between Dart when he first stepped in at the beginning of the summer and the way he's playing now. And it's obviously translated to the preseason.

[Alan Hahn]

To me, quarterbacks, it's amazing in this sport. Peter, if I gave you I'm giving give you two categories, all right? Athleticism and iq. Like, like, like ability to process. Like he just like, like Jordan just described. You can have I'm giving you 20 point. No, I can't give you 20 points. I'm giving you 15 points to allocate. To allocate. Where are you allocating the 15 points.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's a really. That's a fun question.

[Alan Hahn]

Now you got up to 10 in each category.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can go up to 10 to.

[Alan Hahn]

10 in each category. Where are you allocating the numbers? And if you say, if you tell me like 8 and 7, you're out. Because you're not playing the game the right way. Because you want to be elite in one thing. Right. You want to be elite in something.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

Because if you're, if you're doing 8 and 7, then you're not elite in anything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I disagree. No, you're telling me a quarterback with eight smarts and seven athletics isn't what you want. So he's as smart as basically can be and a very high level athlete as well.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, where are you going? You going seven athlete and eight. So a little above average.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, because you're saying it's still ranking out of 10.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, like I'm, I want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you want.

[Alan Hahn]

I want elite. So I'm using 10 in one category. I would put it. Because like you don't have to be an 8 athlete at quarterback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you're putting 5 athlete at quarterback.

[Alan Hahn]

If you have 10 on the brain.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can be really good. Well, then you're going Brady. That is Brady. Right? 10 on the brain, 5 on the athleticism.

[Alan Hahn]

So to me, the most important thing to start out with is the ability to process, which a lot of these young quarterbacks don't have. Again, Zach Wilson's a great example of it. Like, there's a lot of quarterback. Like, that's why Anthony Richardson is now going to be looking for another team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And welcome to why I don't really deserve a lot of pushback when I have Jaden Daniels at the highest level. Because that dude's ability to process and his athleticism are both so stinking high.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That it's ridiculous.

[Alan Hahn]

And Lamar Jackson might be a 10 in both. No, Lamar Jackson. Well, his ability to process is elite.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you know what? It is elite, but it's the arm. I'm including the athleticism. The arm.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, all right. He's insane. Insanely athletic. But you're right. If you want to take the arm, put the arm into it and put him at an 8.5 because of the arm or 9 because of the arm. That's still really high.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And again, I'm not saying. I'm not.

[Alan Hahn]

But he's so smart that he knows when to run and he does not. Wait, he knows when to go. That's elite.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I agree. Lamar is fantastic. Although we've talked about this, and this might be a fun thing to do. You know what? We can go rogue at 4:30, right?

[Alan Hahn]

No, we have the rewrite.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah. We can go rogue at 445.

[Alan Hahn]

We certainly can.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You talk about fun storylines to start thinking about for this year, man. How do you not start thinking about what this year means for. For Lamar Jackson? Like, something has got to give. We have four absolute legends potentially playing quarterback in the afc, and the only one who's done anything with it truly is is number 15 in red and white. Everybody else has been short, shorter and shortest.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's like the 80s when you think about quarterbacks. Montana did all the winning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

But Elway and Jim Reno and then.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jim Kelly was the guy who got to go to the dance. Jim Kelly got to be Josh Allen, essentially minus the super bowl appearances, but just coming up short all the time.

[Alan Hahn]

It came later. But think about it. Marino and what did I just say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Elway, Elway, Montana.

[Alan Hahn]

Like Montana did all the winning, but everybody else, right? You think about the other quarterbacks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Boomer got one.

[Alan Hahn]

We got there. He got to a Super Bowl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah, he lost to San Francisco.

[Alan Hahn]

That's right. The elite quarterbacks of that era, of that of just the age I'm talking about, it was dominated by Montana. One guy, even though everybody else was really good, too. But you know what? It's true. A good bounce back and forth would be a bigger, maybe a more critical year for which. Which AFC north quarterback that's elite, Burrow or Jackson?

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The time continuum has been disrupted, creating an alternate 1985.

[Don Hahn]

This is hey Doc, are you telling.

[Alan Hahn]

Me you built a time machine?

[Don Hahn]

The Thirst Rewrite.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, Thursday Rewrite Driven by Ramsey Mazda. And so we go back. So Yesterday was the 35th anniversary of when George Steinbrenner stepped to the podium and resigned as Yankees Managing partner.

[George Steinbrenner (archival clip)]

I thought I'd come down for a few moments to show you that I am not remorseful. I'm not in shock. Actually, I feel pretty good about things. I will be, as you know, resigning as General partner Managing General Partner sometime today. And I'LL answer a few questions, but not too many. I really feel very, very good.

[Alan Hahn]

Very good.

[George Steinbrenner (archival clip)]

Okay. And I answer just a couple. We have a good system. And I will admit one thing that I never realized could happen was that you could bring young players in here, rookies and young players, and have them be as accepted as they are. I never believed you could do that in New York. I thought you had to have established stars all the time and that that would be the. And this year, some of the press of which you were one, convince me that you could, in fact bring these young players in and go with them. We have, out of the eight players playing, six of them, I think for one year or less. I never thought that that could be exciting enough for New York Yankee fans. But I mean, it's great. I enjoy it. I watch it. One day, one guy will throw up in the dugout on one play and hit a three run homer the next play. See, I never figured that that would go in New York, that New York would be patient enough to give you time to develop your team and with a young talent.

[Alan Hahn]

So very interesting stuff there from Steinbrenner, especially the second part of that. So those. We all know this story here in New York. Commissioner Fay Vincent banned him from baseball because of his involvement in paying a gambler to spy on Dave Winfield to dig up some dirt on him in retaliation for Winfield suing Steinberger and the Yankees for not donating to his charity, which was written into his contract, a big 10 year $23 million deal that he signed back in 1980. So some are doing this and of course it was found out and Faye Vincent said, you can't do that. And so he was banned. Now, lifetime ban didn't last very long, but we, we know in Yankee lore that ended up being, in a weird way, a blessing because getting Steinbrenner out of the business, even just for two years, bringing Jean Michael in to run the organization while he was away. Stick to you and me, we all know what happened there, because while Steinbrenner was gone, all Jean Michael did was draft people like Derek Jeter. Have you heard of him? Mariano Rivera might have heard of him. Jorge Posada, Andy Pettit put them together that you call for. And they also had a guy named Bernie Williams, who, George apparently had a itchy trigger finger, just trying to trade him to anybody, make him the next Jay Buhner, you know, like Fred McGriff. Like, we got to get rid of this guy. Why? He wears glasses. I don't like it. You know, whatever it is they. He just. He always was trying to include Bernie Williams in a trade. And there's a funny story I had heard from. I asked some people about this who were there covering the team back then. Funny story that somebody told me was that Stick used to tell George, nobody wants Bernie. And so when there was also another Williams in the organization, his name was Gerald Williams. Not nearly as good as Bernie. And he would put Gerald in trade offers, and then teams would reject it, and then he'd tell George, I put Williams in the deal. They don't want him. Like, anything he could do to keep Steinbrenner from wanting to trade a guy that they thought had great potential. And look, Bernie turned into a legendary Yankee star. So in the rewrite, I thought, if we go back, what if George just said, fine, I'll pay the donations that I didn't pay to the charity that was owed to you because it's contractually, I'm obligated to do it. I should have done it, and I did, right? If he just does that instead of reaching out to Howie Spira, hey, dig up some stuff on this Winfield character that I've got on this team. You know, if he doesn't do that, he doesn't get banned. If he doesn't get banned, Peter, I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Know where you're going.

[Alan Hahn]

Does the Core four ever happen? Does Bernie Williams end up being traded for some other. You know, for Joseph Shablotnik, who doesn't pan out in New York?

[Peter Rosenberg]

We love Joe Shabla.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, does Jeter ever get drafted? Does any of this happen? Does the 90s happen? Like, think about. Had already been to that point, 12 years since the Yankees last won a World Series and nine years since they last appeared in one. So it was already feeling like a long time. If this doesn't happen, where he gets banned and has to step away and Jean Michael is allowed now to run the team like a functioning franchise that develops young players. Although at the end of that clip, you heard him say, I never knew you could do this. Because they were starting to do it in that year. Not because they wanted to, but because I think they had a lot of injuries. But it's amazing to think, if you rewrite that history, does the 90s dynasty ever happen? What do the Yankees become? How do we look at George Steinbrenner as an owner? Because after that, and then he comes back, the team's already set up and established. Then he got involved again because we all saw, you know, I mean, him getting Roger Clemens, like, there were things he wanted. And he made sure get me that guy Clemens was the famous one, of course, when he went to his house and said, do you want to play for the Yankees or not? But it is interesting, right? Like Steinbrenner's legacy now is of this lovable, you know, old man like your grandpa who just was mad at the world. But I was so adorable and fun and cute and wasn't he great? But yet he was tough on his players and he set the standard. Like, we do have this different, different view of Steinmerder than what we really did in the. In 1990. He was not. He was notorious as an owner.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, for. And for so many reasons. Right. It's what makes this a great rewrite. Is that a negative thing at the time? Seemingly a negative thing.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that was. I mean, devastating if you think about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And at the time, I'm sure, I'm sure personally and professionally appearing to be devastating turns out to be this thing. And this is honestly not to go too deep, Allen.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you don't think it's bizarre, like he hires this notorious gambler to get dirt on his own player because he doesn't want to pay to his charity?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. I mean, what an awful look that is. Well, I mean, by the way, keep in mind, as you just pointed out, the version that people tell about George and making him an angel is already a farce, and we know that. Right. And there's a reason that the Larry David portrayal of Steinbrenner on Seinfeld even exists. He was beyond the dipping into things that are outright, you know, immoral at best, criminal at worst. He was also a hothead lunatic who also couldn't get this team to win, even though they had a great winning record in the 80s, could not deliver a championship. And kind of, you know, for a team that is literally the most lauded in the history of sports, kind of for the Yankees, that decade, in spite of the win total, feels lost. It's lost.

[Alan Hahn]

And again. And you're right. And. And how he would always get in the way. He almost, in a weird way, he was very Jerry Jones ish. What Jerry Jones is now with the Cowboys feels a lot like what George was then, where Jerry after the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even more of a hothead, though think about it.

[Alan Hahn]

Jerry had the Super Bowls right in the 90s, which was like the 70s World Series for George. Early on in his ownership, he had success. Then it got to his head. And then he wanted. He got involved in player transactions as an owner, which was a huge mistake. And that's like, Jerry. It's the biggest brand worldwide, made tons of money, and yet they never got back until he got the hell out of the way. Right. So there's a lot of parallels between the Yankees then and, you know, the Cowboys now. And the funny thing is, if the Cowboys ever figured out a way to win a. Win a Super bowl, as Jerry is, you know, obviously in his late stages of life, he might end up being that lovable character again, and fans might forget because the lasting memory is winning. And Howard Steinman was in. Literally would ball like a. Like a child when they won these World Series. He would get emotional, and that's, you know, that's saying a lot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I just. Now, that was a beautiful rewrite, by the way. It's fascinating.

[Alan Hahn]

Good rewrite. All right. There you go. Well, let me just close it out, because the Thursday rewrite, driven by Ramsey Mazda. It's the experience of driving a new Mazda and buying a new Mazda from Ramsey Mazda. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. I love input from people on this, of course. 800-919-3776.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, please, let's. Let's keep this conversation going. So adjacent to your rewrite, is it. Is it. Is it just bad? Bad luck's the wrong word.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is it just sort of like silly happenstance that by Bernie getting there early, he's not part of the core four? Like, shouldn't it really be, like, the live five?

[Alan Hahn]

Like, live five?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, I don't know what the. It doesn't. It doesn't work. Well, Core 4 is fantastic, but when you really. When you look at that group, you're telling me you can't make a case for Bernie making the 4 spot, if not 5? There's not an argument that he could make, even make four. When you think of the most important people on those teams.

[Alan Hahn]

The problem is, be like in 95 is when Rivera, I think Jeter had a cup of coffee. Like Posada, I think was the year later. You know, those four pet it. 96. They were later. You know, Bernie was already there in 91.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I get it.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, he was already there when they were still bad, but it's almost like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He'S punished for it.

[Alan Hahn]

Not punished. It's just he. Like the four that came up in 95 and 96 sort of was like the final pieces that set them on their way because that's four critical positions. Bernie was already there. I agree. Because he was still relatively young. Think about it. He was 22 when he made his major League debut. So when we get to 96, when the four guys now are rookies, you know, he's. No, listen, what is he, what is he, 27.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So listen, listen to this too. So, so Bernie, he in 94. So he's there 91.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, he was 27 years old.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's just, let's just, let's just look at like, I'll just start with hits and home runs. He has no home runs to speak of. And, and he has hits. He has his first breakout season in terms of hits in 93 at 152 hits.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He had, he had 12 home runs. He looks like a ballplayer. 95, 173 and 18. 96, 168 and 29. 97, 167 hits, 21 home runs in 99. 202 hits, 25 home runs. The 165 and 30 in 2000.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, those are all his all star years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Those are so like, even though he was there, he was beast Bernie during those years. And now I feel bad because when you look up core four and you see the picture, it's the four of them. They're all there. They have a thing. It's just interesting because he's such an integral part of it.

[Alan Hahn]

I completely agree. It always felt like, you know, core five, you know, that kind of thing.

[George Steinbrenner (archival clip)]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It just happens to.

[Alan Hahn]

It's better when they. Yeah, yeah, but they kind of completed it. That's, that's the whole idea of it. But you're right, it always feels like the four and Bernie. But Bernie just happened to be older when he made his debut, so he.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Doesn'T get the cute nickname.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, when they made their debut, he was older. So he's not really part of it, but he's very much certainly part of it. But he wouldn't have been part of it if George didn't get sent away for two years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All of that, all of that on the table. It's fantastic. Rewrite 1-800-919-3776 we'll talk to you guys next. We're talking about the what Jackson darts playing tonight. What you could hope to see or not see in that of course Yankees Red Sox underway as Don Hanna Rosenberg right here on espn. New York. You want to get the most for your money. That's why more Mazda buyers choose Ramsey Mazda for selection, customer service and savings during the Mazda more to move you sales event. Lisa New 25 Mazda CX30 for 239 for 33 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Fin SM 842601 MSRP 268800 Security Deposit.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, game time. Brought to you by Tully Mardu Irish Whiskey because when it's game time, I like when he holds it. Mets Nationals going on right now. Last I saw was one nothing Mets. Do we have an update? It's two nothing Mets now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, perfect setup for them to blow this.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, no. McNeil. Jeff McNeil sitting out. And Brandon Nimmos got that neck strain left last night's game. Not good. He is not playing today as well. So that's going on right now. We'll keep an eye on that for you. The Yankees, by the way, are opening a series with the Red Sox tonight. In the ballpark in the boogie down 7:15 is the first pitch. Liberty, by the way, they host the Links at seven. Peter. That's right, Telemar. Do the original triple distilled, triple blended triple cask matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Telemardu or try the new Telemurdo. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Telemore do responsibly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm getting annoyed now.

[Alan Hahn]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because it's just like coming at me everywhere.

[Alan Hahn]

What now? What'd you do? Where?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here it is. Hold on. This one. I don't Mind, this is just funny. Someone said, I find it hilarious that you and Alan told Donnie doesn't kiss enough ass and. Hold on. Damn it. I just lost it.

[Alan Hahn]

We said that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we did.

[Anthony]

Apparently it's not everywhere.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I find it hilarious that you and Alan told Donnie doesn't kiss enough ass, and that's why he's on TV more and he ends up with the best TV job out of all of you.

[Alan Hahn]

Wait a minute. Who. When did I ever say that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, you. We both said that he doesn't play the game enough.

[Alan Hahn]

I did. Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You have also said that Don doesn't play the game. And why would you say anything else? You'd be telling the truth. The man literally. The man literally can't look up from his screen.

[Alan Hahn]

I think that's a you. That was a you and Michael thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You okay? Well, even if it wasn't on the air, I've heard you have the conversation.

[Alan Hahn]

Off the air with play the game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, like show up and talk to people, have a conversation.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that. You mean shaking hands in the suite kind of stuff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just being a social human being around people you work for.

[Alan Hahn]

That's not kissing ass. It's called networking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I made it fun and called it kissing.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I didn't mean it that way. I meant. I meant called being a networker. But by the way, I love for Don that he managed to get the job of his dreams and did it his way. Listen, God bless. It's amazing.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Good for him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That wasn't it, though.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm pretty happy, though, with the TV gigs that I've been able to figure out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I think that. Exactly.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, I think being on national television is pretty good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's. You're enjoying is what you're saying.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's. You know, I wouldn't put it. You know, I'm very happy for Don, but I don't know how we're going to compare that, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, now, hold on. Why are you. Why are you trolled into battling with Don?

[Alan Hahn]

What are you battling with?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What are you doing?

[Alan Hahn]

I was just besmirched.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but we let the guy be smirch. It was. It was for the upliftment of happy for Don.

[Alan Hahn]

Very happy for Don. But it doesn't mean you got to, like, take a shot at me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's Twitter. Hello.

[Alan Hahn]

I think I've done fine. You know what I mean? Like, I think I'm good. Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, if he thinks we're okay. But that wasn't it. What annoyed me was someone said, oh, Rosenberg, I see you sleeping on the. Here it is. So I'm listening to the radio. Rosenberg, radio says he's sleeping on the Patriots. So when the Commanders don't make the playoffs, I hope he's fully awake to see that. I am so annoyed. I saw it again. I turned on the betting channel, ESPN and Brian Custer was talking to one of the betting guys about betting and they're giving me the same thing. Well, expect the Commanders to take a step back. It is the most boring, repetitive. None of you are basing in anything except the fact that the Commanders somehow got to 12 and 5 last year. No one expected it and now they're going, well, they got tape. They got tape on Jaden Daniels. They do, they do. And Jaden Daniels, by the way, I don't know if you know this, Alan, and I don't think you'll disagree with me wholeheartedly. Jayden Daniels also has 17. Oh, sorry. Three playoff games, 20 NFL games experience and lots of tape on everything else, too. This is the same guy who may be the only player in the league who's up at 6am doing AI recreations of every team in the league. Stop acting as if all of a sudden he's gonna be solved. You guys must stink again. It is a boring, stupid narrative. It's hate to be fair.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, good.

[Anthony]

If I may.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead, Anthony.

[Anthony]

Yeah. Bill Barnwell does an article every year and I told you, Peter, at the end of the year, the Commanders are going to be in the Bill Barnell article of five teams. Take a step back because it is statistics based. They were 8 and 1 in games decided by 7 points or less.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Anthony]

So you say the law of averages. I know. We love analytics and statistics.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We love analytics and statistics.

[Anthony]

If they drop that to even, which is why people think the Giants going to take a step forward because they were basically the reverse of how bad they were. They're going to gain three wins while the Commander is going to lose three wins. And they said it's not likely that even if the Commanders go for it on fourth down as much as they did last year, that they'll have the success of. I think it was 20 out of 24.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, they have the best in the league.

[Anthony]

And then I believe most of those drives led to touchdowns. So there's some statistical backing there. And you can agree, Peter, that if you don't get to the win total that you did last year, the definition of that is a step back still doesn't mean they won't be. Still doesn't mean they won't make the playoffs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alright, so that last part you said, I'm going to refute this part you said at the beginning. The second part you said though is great. Is a really great point, Anthony, because. And maybe you'll agree with me on this. I think that's part of the reason people like to say it is because they could go 10 and 7 and you can go see, told you it was a step.

[Anthony]

That's correct.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it really wasn't much of a step.

[Anthony]

That's correct.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I do think it's a very safe. That's why I called it lazy. I think it's a very safe NFL take to have but for the statistics and they're not as likely to do the things that they did last year in terms of going for it on 4th down with the success rate there, etc. I also can argue that Laramie Tunsil could be a huge difference maker on this team. I could argue that Jaden Daniels having a full season and playoffs experience will make it a better quarterback. So maybe there are less games that require them coming down to the final two minutes to win. So I hear you. I understand why the statistics would suggest that. But at the end of the day it's all statistics and predictions. And while I wouldn't be shocked, listen, I'm not guaranteeing a Super Bowl. The commies could absolutely take a step back to 10 and 7. Alan, my annoyance is more with just when it's one of like your teams you notice these things more like I'm sure it's happening throughout the league with other things of course, but I notice it because it's my team. So you're just aware of the lazy take. You're like, all right, you copied that. You heard that. Now you're saying it. You're saying it. Okay, I'm not convinced it's going to happen but hey, maybe they'll be right. But I certainly wouldn't go guaranteeing it.

[Alan Hahn]

I want to see what the predictions were from year to year when the lions went 9 and 8, then 12 and 5 and then saying 12 and 5, I mean for that team, blah blah blah. Like you know, they did get to the conference championship game. Sound familiar? And like to just say, okay, they're going to take a step back. They're going to have to take a step back. And they went to 15 wins. Right? So you know, like it does happen and it's okay. It does like the I think the better computer with your situation is going to be the Houston Texans because of the young quarterback that everybody was excited about and you felt like, okay, 10 and 7 get into the playoffs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but what a, what a different kind of playoff.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's amazing that the year, year to year was 10 and 7 going to the division round and losing both years. But why does one year feel like this immense success off of a 3 and 13 to another year that felt like a step back despite the fact that the same amount of wins. That's a, that's a, that's the thing to keep an eye on. Anyway, so take a break.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You want to talk to Nelly?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, we got Jeff Nelson coming up. Get it back into the Yankees and the Red Sox and what we need to see. But you know what we need to talk about right now is the new ESPN app.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go for it.

[Alan Hahn]

This is the big launch, everybody. You want to be part of this. The most live sports, the best championship moments, and so much more. Monday Night football, college football, NBA, wnba, NHL, nwsl, college hoops, volleyball, softball, gymnastics, lacrosse, everything all in one app. Plus you get SportsCenter with SVP. First take with Stephen A. We like him. College game day. The entire 30 for 30 library and all of ESPN all in one place. So get it and sign up now.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.