← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Hour 2: D&R Response & That Guy Thursday
00:50:30
Don, Hahn & Rosenberg on ESPN NY
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- [00:01]
A
Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.
- [00:19]
B
So if you've been living in the White can branch out.
- [00:22]
C
Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe,
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A
and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more. This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
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B
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
A
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. 401 in the big city with Don Legreca and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn. Don Legreca, the bobblehead right now, as you can watch on YouTube. If you are watching on YouTube, don looking Natalie, dressed in a beautiful tie and suit combo with which we haven't seen in a while because Don has not been allowed to call Devil games. No, not your back now. Which is tonight. This is great. Yeah.
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B
Devil's Flames. Bet the under.
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A
Bet the under. And you said this because.
- [01:15]
B
Not. Well, because they're one's 30th in goal scored, the other one's 32. So there's the math there. But no, it's good, man, because after I do this game and then the Kings game on Saturday, that'll be five games in five weeks. It's like an NFL team. I'm covering, but we'll get back to it.
- [01:32]
A
Five. Yeah. You know, you're resting your voice. You're getting ready for the big. Like, you know, you're going down the stretch now. Big games, big goal calls. But yes, that game's at 7,708puck drop at the Rock. And you can see and hear Don on msg. Did you guys happen to catch, which I. This is what I love about Rich Samini. Yeah, he's got a Rolodex and. Yes, Rolodex, kids. That's what your contacts and your phone used to be called back in the day before we had phones. But he's got numbers upon numbers upon numbers. So when Geno Smith was officially traded to the jets, he had Pete Carroll's number, because, of course he did. He's covered the jets since they were called the titans back in 1964. And Pete Carroll had some interesting things to say about Geno Smith, who he worked with for just for one season in Vegas. And he said to Rich, I think I see him differently than a lot of people see him. Said I love him and Appreciate him differently. He also went on to say he's a phenomenal quarterback. He has a fan. He had a fantastic off season and preseason with us. He comes out in the first game, has a great first game. It was all fitting exactly the right time. Yes, that's right. It was the two first year coaches going ahead that. And then he said then we just faltered and faltered. We did. We didn't do well enough coaching. He blamed himself. He blamed the coaching. Who was the offensive coordinator there? Was it. Who am I thinking of? Who is the OC out there? Chip Kelly.
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C
Big Chip.
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A
Yeah, there you go. He said we should have had him better prepared for the things that happened and that wouldn't have happened. He said I take a lot of responsibility for that. We didn't prepare him well enough for the, in the off season. Even though he looked great and we felt we had everything lined up. It was a very, very disappointing for both of us. So he's taken a lot of the blame for Gino season last year. Now remember again, he did coach him in, in Seattle. Right. But he got off to such a miserable start. It just wasn't him. We didn't function well early on. Got behind the eight ball from the beginning. Everybody wanted to blame him for it and he took it and took it. He said that we didn't get to reap the benefits of our relationship. He just keeps going on here with these quotes about just how much he loves Gino and he does believe that the jets are going to be better, that it was a good place for him and that he thinks the jets are going to be better off his second time around in New York with the Jets. For a Jet team that we don't have any expectations for, he will be
- [04:21]
B
even if he's average, that's way better than anything outside of Rogers. You know, anything that they had last year, they just did not have any ability to play quarterback. And really anybody that they brought in, anybody would have improved their quarterback play from the last couple of years. Right. You know, certainly the first half of Rodgers second year and all of last year when it was like brutal. They just couldn't move the football. Their defense in the beginning of the season was playing lights out and they just couldn't score. That Panther game is the one that stands out. It's like two teams just couldn't, couldn't move the ball at all, couldn't get any points at all. If they had any competent quarterback, they would have won a couple more games. And that's the whole idea of Bringing in a quarterback to just see exactly how good this team can be, how good is your coach? Are you moving in the right direction? You can't do that without something at quarterback. And I know Geno Smith was bad on a bad team, but, you know, two 4,000 yard seasons in the last four years, it just got away from them in Vegas, you know, and maybe it'll get away from him here, but I still think there's the potential. He's mature. He's not a kid anymore. He's had success.
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C
Did anybody last year go around saying, you know, the reason that. The reason the Raiders are terrible is Geno Smith?
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A
No, but he, again, he had a great 300 yard game in week one and then, then just pick after. He was just throwing interceptions like crazy.
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D
But I just.
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A
There was a lot of, like, he really fell off. The team's bad. You know, Pete Carroll lost his job. Like Chip Kelly got fired. Like, there was a lot, just the general.
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C
But the general narrative was, this is a bad football team, a bad football team.
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B
That just.
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A
Narrative.
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B
It went anyway sideways.
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A
Let me ask you, like, you guys tell me, the Geno Smith thing in Seattle, how much was it. Were people buying into it? Like, oh, wow, he's really turned it around, or was it just one of those. He's having a, you know, he's. He had a. He had a good couple of seasons. Is there this thought that he finally found it over the age of 30, I think. What was it his line? His line was like, they wrote me off and I didn't write back. Wasn't that his line?
- [06:28]
B
Yeah, right. He. I think when it was good in Seattle, it was just giving more credit to Carroll, like how amazing Pete Carroll is. Look what he's able to do with the quarter. I don't know if anybody really appreciated the job that Geno Smith did there. They just gave credit to Carroll. They gave credit to the system. And that's kind of what they did with Sam Darnold, right? That when he was good in Minnesota, it was all, well, he's good in Minnesota because, look, he's got a quarterback. Head coach. We always tend to give credit to the coaching because coaching is so important in the NFL. Before we really believe that it's the quarterback turning around. Then Sam goes ahead and wins a Super bowl with Seattle and it's like, well, now we can finally throw the roses to the quarterback. And if Gino were ever able to get himself up and play well, maybe we'll finally get a chance to do that here. But I always felt like whatever success he had in Seattle was credited to Carroll more than it was credited to Gino.
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A
So. All right. With what?
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B
I ain't right back, though.
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A
That's the problem.
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B
I ain't right back. Let's go. You know what? He. He should have left it as it is. Like he felt like the first phrase, I got to keep it going. Like maybe they didn't get it. Like. Yeah, it's almost Peter. It's almost like retelling the joke.
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C
Yeah. If you didn't catch it. So what I said was, Mr. Punchline, is this on?
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B
Is this on?
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A
But still him with the. Him with the jets now, second time around. With what the jets are there, we know there's no expectations. Right. What with him, would you say the jets are Now? If you hear what Pete Carroll says about. And it's almost like Pete Carroll saying, what you saw last year in Vegas was not a Geno Smith issue, it was a coaching issue. And now he's got Frank Reich. What. What do you. What do you feel like? Did, like, do you buy that? Because I said the three previous years, his numbers are good. Averaging what, eight, nine wins a year. He had two 4,000 yard passing seasons. He was. It was terrible with Vegas. So what do we believe? Those three previous years where it looked like he resuscitated his career, or last season, which is like the drop off was incredible.
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B
I think you're asking the wrong question, Alan. It doesn't matter what Geno Smith is. He's not going to be here very long. The question is, does he have the jets ready? Do they have enough around him that just competent quarterback play can mean some extra wins. Right. You got a really good running back. You got a world class wide receiver, an offensive line that's getting better. Right. You bring in Frank Reich who works with quarterbacks, that's competent offensively as a coach, that I think that there's enough there that should produce some wins to produce some points. Right?
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A
Right.
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B
Whoever the quarterback was going to be was going to be much better than last year.
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A
You would think so.
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B
Where it was just an absolute mess. Now hall knows, hey, I'm franchised. It's in his best interest to play hard. He played hard last year. We had every reason to tuck a tail between his legs and say, I want the hell out of here. He played hard down the stretch and you know he's going to play hard this year. I'm sure Garrett Wilson's got a chip on his shoulder. Right. To go out there and perform. But probably dying to have anybody be able to throw him the football. It's not, it's not going to produce 10 wins in a playoff spot. But I don't honestly potentially could, I think they could double their wins. They could be a six or seven win. Six or seven quarterback.
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A
What does that do for the Jets? You've talked about how important it is for the jets to not as much as fans want this to be a full on tank season because it's a big quarterback draft and have the opportunity to get Manning or whoever else in the draft and then go from there. And you have fought that notion, Don, that, that it is more important for the jets to show something, be functional. Because if you're, if you're three or fewer wins again, you know the whole thing's getting torn up. You know it. Why is it important for the jets to, to at least do this, to have a guy like Geno Smith that can do that for you and get
- [10:34]
B
you six or seven moving forward that what you are doing is working. You know, if I go out and I sign Davis, if I trade for Mika Fitzpatrick, I go out and I get Geno Smith. I've got a head coach that I'm paying a lot of money to who's got blood in the ground and Aaron Glenn in his second year. I went out and got a really good offensive mind in Frank Reich. I've done, I've got a second draft from UGI that it's working and that if I double my win total it tells the rest of the NFL you're moving in the right direction, that you might have the right coach, that you might have the right general manager, that you might have the right pieces in place there with all this salary cap space that you have instead of it being air, it becomes now you're an attractive place to play. I want to go play for Aaron Glenn, I want to go play for Darren Mugi, I want to go play for Frank Reich. I want to go play for the New York jets who doubled their win total. They're moving in the right direction rather than the opposite with where none of the moves work. You're another 3 and 14 season. That's 28 losses in two years for your head coach and your general manager. Why am I going to want to go sign there? Why am I going to want to play for the jets that aren't moving in the right direction that are a fraction of a second from blowing it all up again? You know, I just got a 30 year old safety. You think he wants to Throw a season away. Think Davis wants to throw a season away? You think Gino wants to be here just to lose games, hurt his numbers and have the organization just go nowhere again just so you can go out and get a quarterback that's got, what, a 30% chance of doing something? You gave the stat since 2010, three quarterbacks that were drafted in the first round since 2010 are still playing with the team that drafted them.
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A
Three out of 29.
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B
And those three out of 29, by
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A
the way, those three were MVPs, right? Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. That's it.
- [12:36]
B
So you're willing to sully your reputation of your general manager, of your head coach further, just wreak the reputation now of being now 16 straight years of missing the playoffs, 15 of 16, having a losing season, and oh yeah, that's going to be a trap with $100 million of cap space. Think that anybody's going to want to come play for you and then have to go through another coach and now have your general manager? We're worried about his job because he just had two straight miserable losing seasons and probably an owner that's got his finger on the trigger of blowing up another general manager. So when I hear what good is doubling your win total, it's just moving you in the right direction.
- [13:12]
A
Peter?
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B
Yes. Listen, you're going to, you're going. I don't know if you're going to play the sound or whatever.
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A
I'm going to play it, but I wanted to get. Because.
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B
But that's my opinion. You got to start winning some football games.
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A
That's it. And you have continued to say that, that that's more valuable, even if it plays you out of the quarterback draft. It's more valuable, Peter. Is it more valuable? You're. You root for a team that fell into a quarterback that was bad and got the quarterback in the draft with the number two pick, got yourself all the way to the conference championship game, that you feel like we've got our guy now, but.
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B
But still don't know.
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C
But still don't know. But again, no one knows but you. Literally, we have to get to the point. It's literally three years before anyone knows. So that part you have to accept. I mean, with Josh Allen or Mahomes, anyone, you're talking two or three years before you really have an idea, right? Maybe four. But I'll say this. What surprises me about the opinion of the yokels in the morning is, respectfully, is the idea that they can literally comfortably throw away seasons Understanding that you do want to build something. We're coming off of a season that was thrown away. We're coming off of two years before that. Guys that were completely broken two years prior, completely ruined. Right? The Roger Rogers year one, completely broken.
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A
That wasn't intentional. They were trying to go for it that year.
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C
Trying to go for it.
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A
He's popped.
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C
But as a fan, when his Achilles pop, you lost a year gone, you're like, and I know I say this, and I know it's dramatic, and I'm sure we could get calls from people who could tell us their specific stories. There are loved ones and family members of people who three years ago were here, who are not here anymore. They did not get to see their team do anything fun or special. Holidays come. Holidays go. Monday night football games. You get excited for all of these moments that the morning show is willing to just go, doesn't matter.
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B
Get rid of it.
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C
We have to build towards the future. To Don's point, and my thought on it is your team is about winning. It's also about your fan base enjoying themselves somewhat to put a presentable product on the field. Don, you can't just say to your fan base every year, sorry, these 17 don't matter. You have to do something for them.
- [15:38]
B
But you also got to.
- [15:40]
C
That means winning some games.
- [15:41]
A
Well, let's. So Rick had a question from Don on the show this morning, and he asked Don this for those people that
- [15:50]
B
want to win games. To what end, though? Even if you double your win total, it's still six wins. What are you doing? Like, it's like it's six opportunities out of 17 games to feel good.
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D
Ask Don.
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B
He thinks that. It matters for culture building and it matters for what kind of team you're going to be. And winning matters. I'm really surprised that a former professional athlete would have that opinion. That Rick DiPietro worked his tail off to make it to the NHL, would have an opinion. How does winning matter? How does going from three wins to six wins matter? He can't see that As a guy that practiced and worked to get to the NHL, how would he feel if he was on a team that were throwing years of his career away so that they could go out and draft the next great player that may actually lead you to the championship long after you're gone and in all likelihood not even lead you to the championship to begin with? You know how long it took the Edmonton Oilers to get to the Stanley cup finals with Connor McDavid and they still didn't win but at least they got to the conference. The Stanley Cup Final. Back to back years. But it took years for it to finally turn the. So would he be willing to sit there and work his tail off and play for a football team that just waiting for Godot. Waiting for the day that finally the savior will come? Not even knowing if the savior is going to be able to do anything. Because will that savior and Arch Manning, whoever it is, next year, be able to succeed for a Jet team that has no coach, that has an incompetent general manager that all he does is lose? Like you don't do these things in a vacuum, guys. The wins mean that what you're doing is working. And now the next pick can pick up where you guys left off and take it to the promised land. I'm really surprised that a guy like Rick who made it to the NHL would have. Would ask the question what good would doubling your win total be? I'm shocked by that floor.
- [17:46]
C
I mean, and not to mention, how are we ever going to learn anything you can't about your head coach if you're losing 15 games a year and everyone's okay with it? Because if everyone's okay with it as they are, you can't even judge Glenn losing the games. Doesn't matter. Don't you have to get an idea, guys? We don. Can you picture a world in which you go into year three and you have no idea if Aaron Glenn can coach?
- [18:13]
B
How many.
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C
How many chances you get? As a wise man once said, you got to find out something about the guy.
- [18:20]
B
Yeah. And then. And then maybe you do get that quarterback and he ends up being a bust.
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A
Which 27 out of 26 out of 29 times in between 2010 and 2019, a first round quarterback has not stayed with his team.
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B
And if you.
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A
All right.
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B
And just to further make the point about what good is doubling the win total is that then that means your general manager could. They're trying to win. Okay. Clearly by making the deal that they made with Miami to bring in and then signing. They're trying to. They're trying to get some wins.
- [18:54]
A
They are not trying to tank you.
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B
Right. So now you don't have a general manager because now your general manager went out there trying to win and loses 14 games. 15 games. So now I don't have a general manager. I don't have a head coach. Oh, but I might have Arch Manning. But now I'm looking for the coach. Now I'm looking for the general manager. I can't put anybody around Him. And then we fast forward five years later, and Arch Manning never materializes because they can't put a competent team around them. And now it's another five years that you flush down the toilet.
- [19:21]
A
It's a vicious cycle that you are in, and I'm living it, so I can speak on it from the experience of the vicious cycle of year after year realizing this team is not good enough. We have to get a quarterback. How do we get the quarterback? You got to be bad to be in the draft to get him. And it's this. The living with losing, waiting for the miracle to happen, when maybe sometimes the miracle is in the work in finding and building a team, because it isn't always built through the draft. When it comes to the quarterback. There are enough examples around the league that have shown you. We just saw it in Seattle. Seattle moved on from Russell Wilson. Did they draft their next quarterback to win a Super Bowl? No. No. So it can happen another way. And I'm with you, Don. I completely agree. I have covered professional sports for 25 years. I've been around some bad teams, man, and that is a bad culture. And it's really hard to exterminate it. Really hard.
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B
And I'll say it again. All this cap space that they can fill with free agents, who the hell's gonna want to come here? Oh, they'll just follow the money. So now. So now in order for me to get free agents, I've got to overpay for everybody.
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A
And I got to take guys who are only here really for the money, which.
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B
That always works, right? Why did you. Why did you choose the Jets? Because of the quarterback? Because of the head coach? Because. No, no. They just pay me more than everybody else.
- [20:46]
A
I like Green, but not jet green. 800 now and 93776. Charlie and Allendale ask a great question here. Go ahead, Charlie.
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E
Hey, guys, thanks for getting me on. You know, I think it's a great conversation. Like, well, what do you want? You know, as a fan, I'm kind of lost, as you know. You know, I just don't know. We don't know about the coach. We don't have a quarterback. I don't know about the coordinators. I don't know about the gm. So it's just kind of like up in the air, you know. You know, Geno Smith isn't going to be the guy. So it's just another season of, you know, obviously you want to watch competitive football, but, you know, each. So you double your win total. I mean, okay, but the Year after that you could, you know, if you don't have a quarterback, then what?
- [21:28]
B
No, but, but we just said, then what?
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A
Maybe you cycle.
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B
Maybe you take the picks and trade up to be able to get the quarterback. Maybe this is the year that Burrows like, you know, I need to get out of Cincinnati and Shakes himself. I mean, who knew? Who knew Sam Darnold?
- [21:45]
A
So many.
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E
It's just every year, it's just so many ifs. Well, let me look at, look at this year. We have all the picks this year, but no one's going to give up that number one pick like we could be. No one's going to give up the pick again next year. Everyone thinks, you know, what if you're a teammate?
- [22:00]
A
Charlie and Don said this the other day, what if one of the bad teams, like if Vegas is bad again, which by the way, it's on the table.
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B
Yeah, they don't need to.
- [22:12]
E
They'll draft Arch. They'll draft Arch Manning, they'll trade Mendoza.
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A
Oh, all right. So then you just said, I don't know, you couldn't get the number one pick this year. You couldn't get Mendoza.
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B
I don't know that. Maybe Tennessee. What?
- [22:23]
E
Trust me, once Arch Manning gets to the draft, everyone's going to be going crazy.
- [22:27]
A
Charlie. But again, if that's the case and that team already has a quarterback and if they're saying we're going to draft because Arizona did it, Arizona did the same thing. They took rose in top 10 and then the next year they got the number one pick and they took Murray.
- [22:40]
B
Yeah.
- [22:40]
A
So they traded Rose.
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C
Worked out great by the way.
- [22:42]
B
So you know.
- [22:43]
A
Right. Yeah, but, but they nailed it. You could still get a quarterback that way too. There are. Look, thanks for the call, Charlie. There are other ways and I think we saw it. We have seen it in the league. It's not always the guy you drafted that legion, it's almost never winning the Super Bowl.
- [23:02]
B
Who you know, everybody wants to tank. Explain to me the tank that worked. Kansas City dynasty with a quarterback that was taken 10th overall. The dynasty before that, New England took a quarterback that was taken with a six round pick. Wilson taking the third round. Joe Montana taken in the third round. Lamar Jackson's been a two time MVP taking the last pick of the first round. Jalen Hurts taking in the second round. Exactly.
- [23:26]
A
How many teams wasn't the top five pick?
- [23:29]
B
How many teams like you got a tank? No, you don't. What you need to have is competent coaching and management. So you say, why do I want to double my win total. Because then it shows that maybe I got a coach that can coach, maybe I got a GM that can manage, and maybe I'm moving in the right direction. And then I'll try to find a way to get the quarterback. Granted, it's a lot easier to get the quarterback in the draft first overall, but you don't do losing in a vacuum. You lose for reasons and that means that you don't have competent coaching and you don't have competent management and that's why you finish with the first overall pick. But maybe you find another way. I know it's hard, but it's just as hard to find a good coach and find a general manager. All this is important. So when you ask why, what is three wins to six wins means I doubled my win total, I'm moving in the right direction. Why would you want to do the minority view? Because who tanks to get the quarterback, who?
- [24:23]
C
And then real quickly, it'd be interesting to break down if we go look at super bowl winners, how many of the super bowl winners built to getting there versus how many three years prior, ripped it down to the studs, completely tanked and started over again. Because if you're saying that that's basically what they're saying, well, we want to get completely to rock bottom and then rebuild. So how many years are you saying then? You're, you're, you're not just giving up next year?
- [24:52]
A
No, you're giving up a few years.
- [24:53]
C
You're saying it's a few more years from now.
- [24:55]
A
There's plenty of examples of shrewd moves and decisions with quarterback that did not include the guy we took in the first round.
- [25:06]
D
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F
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- [27:18]
A
for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [27:21]
C
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [27:22]
A
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. We all have that one friend.
- [27:36]
B
I'm talking about the yo yos who set themselves on fire and bathe in pork and beans.
- [27:40]
A
Or know that one person I'm here with my family who can't help but
- [27:45]
C
be he's not cool. His voice is weird. He's kind of a dork. His brother's a tool. His girlfriend's annoying.
- [27:51]
B
That guy. I didn't know it was banner night. We won't be out for that.
- [27:55]
A
It's time for that Guy Thursday. Hey guys, anyone want to play some ball with Don, Han and Rosenberg?
- [28:02]
B
He's just being that guy.
- [28:07]
A
Still waiting for somebody to say, yeah, I'll play some ball.
- [28:11]
B
It's the best. It might be the best thing that open that we have for any of the stuff that we do.
- [28:16]
A
It is fun. So that guy.
- [28:19]
B
Can we just all be in unison that that guy is Rick and Dave?
- [28:23]
A
Ooh, they're being that. Those guys.
- [28:27]
B
I mean if you're not, I'll just take them. But you all just dumb on Louise this and just all.
- [28:31]
C
I mean, I'm not Going to fight you back on it?
- [28:33]
A
No, I'll tell you what, you know, you can, you want to throw into the, into the group, Ty Butler.
- [28:42]
B
I know Ty's very much into tanking.
- [28:44]
A
He, he, he texted me during that segment. We don't win with Glenn. Get him up out of here. Lose every game. I said, so you're rooting to lose? He said, 100%.
- [28:56]
B
So then Muji's got to go. Because I don't want no general manager that built a team that, that would lose 30 games in two years. Then now I got a new job. Listen, here's the. He's here. I'll throw Ty in there too. Here's the reason they're that guy.
- [29:09]
A
Okay.
- [29:10]
B
I completely respect the knowledge that Rick, Dave and Ty have about football. And sometimes I listen to them like I'm slack jawed. Like I can't believe that they know so much about the players that they know. Like they really are into football. They know the game. They understand the game. They understand how to build teams. They know the players. They know the players of other teams. How can you know that much football and be that dumb? Because if you walked into a room, right, knowing the football that you know, and walked into a boardroom of an NFL team and said, boys, let's tank, they drag you out by your hair like it just. It's not the way you do things. It's not the way professionals do things. That's why it's a joke. What happened in Philadelphia in the NBA. That's why it's a joke what's happening in Utah in the NBA. But in football, you don't do it. These players will turn on you. Their careers literally could be over every time they step on the field. They're not doing that for you, man. And you've got to honor those players by building a team to try to win as many games as humanly possible. So for people that know so much about football to really be that stupid, it is really a dumb opinion. It is. And you ask anybody around the NFL, people that work the NFL, general managers, assistant general managers, players, they are all in unison with me. It's something you just do not do. It is not the way to build a football team. It just, it's yo, yo fan stuff that you should try to be above because you know the game, you study the game, you talk about it on the air. You're not just some fan with a pedant over his bed rooting for their teams. You can afford to do that because you're Passionate and fan is short for fanatic. But as three guys that pride themselves and knowing as much as you know to have that kind of a yo yo opinion, you would be laughed out of any legitimate football discussion with former players, general manager, executive, owners. They would laugh at you in your face for having that opinion.
- [31:10]
A
Now
- [31:13]
C
I hear everything Don saying. I don't disagree with a word that he said. I just. The reason it's that guy to me is where do you draw the line on this? You're saying that because, Don, you're very anti tanking in general. Yes, but I can you. But you can make an argument that whether you call it tanking or not, you had a season where you anticipating one thing's gonna happen. It did not work out. Everything that you could have gained from that season is now gone. A draft pick becomes appealing because you realize now you don't have a quarterback. Whether you want to call it tanking or not, setting up the team so you can get as good a draft pick as possible over the final five or six games. I think that happens. I don't think that would get you laughed out of a conversation. But, but in March, yeah, in March, to be saying, no, no, come September, we just want to lose. We're gonna go to training camp, we're gonna go, we're gonna show up in July to OTAs. All right, we're gonna put on pads, we're gonna go through August, we're gonna do the pre game schedule, then we're gonna start the year and we're never gonna think these guys careers are limited. More than any other sport. You might get three years in this league. Don, what's the average? Three and a half seasons. You don't get long to do this, but it's crazy.
- [32:39]
A
What we're missing though is the example in this town that is the Giants, sometimes you could just be bad and still find your way to the quarterback of the future. Like, you don't have to purposely lose to find the quarterback of the future. Sometimes you're just not good enough. And the Giants weren't good enough. They won a playoff year and. But the head coach wasn't really it. And that that proved itself over, over what, two years. And by the time they got to the point where, okay, we really don't have the coach, you still were able to get the quarterback. So I understand both sides. But Don, what you said though was really interesting because it almost feels like the whole idea of we must lose like again, Ty, somebody I absolutely love and respect to say lose Every game I said, you're rooting to lose. And he said, 100%. You're right. That screams basement podcast fan stuff. That doesn't tell me when you know how this stuff works, when you know the business. Like, a lot of us know this business. That's not really. Like, you could say that stuff because you want to get people to call in and agree with you, but we all know that's not the intelligent approach.
- [34:00]
B
And there's just a circle back. And for Rick DiPietro, former athlete, say, what's the difference between, like, three and six wins, doubling your win total?
- [34:08]
A
All I would say to him is, put you on a team, and I'm telling you, we're trying to lose. There's no way you want to be part of that.
- [34:14]
B
And, yeah, there's no way I've been mad at my team. Like, nobody could hate on a team more than a fan can if they realize sometimes you and you just, like, I just want that guy out. Like, I get it. Like, maybe the. Maybe the positive byproduct of going 00:17 is that guy's gone. But I don't. I don't know why you would hate Aaron Glenn that much. I mean, they just didn't have a lot of talent. They weren't very good.
- [34:38]
A
But.
- [34:39]
B
But for everybody to lose that, Muji's got to go, too. And now you're starting all over again. And I will tell you this. I will tell you this. And I know Gary Myers says that Arch Manning would come to the jets no matter what. He wouldn't pull an Eli.
- [34:55]
A
He has a source.
- [34:56]
B
If The jets go Owen 17 and fire their coach and general manager. But Arch Manning really want to go to a team that just is starting all over again.
- [35:07]
A
Oh, I'll take it a step further. Would anybody of quality as a coach ever want this job? You would once again have to find yourself hiring someone that has no experience, that has no resume, because no one wants the job. You're not getting a John Harbaugh. You know why John Harbaugh went to the Giants? Because they were the New York freaking Giants. Yeah, that's why. It wasn't that. He's like, oh, you know, they have a nice roster. No, he went for the brand. The jets are a damaged brand. And what does Owen 17, quality coach this way?
- [35:46]
B
And nobody. And that's it. And again, you don't do it in a vacuum. There's a reason you go over 17 as bad as a coach could be. He can't be the sole reason why you go in 17. So then it circles back to, well, you can't win there. As long as Woody's there, as long as they've got the stench of being the jets, they'll never win that. You just feed that narrative with every losing season, with every loss, with every fired coach and general manager.
- [36:11]
A
And before you start throwing at me that, well, Parcells came after Coti went one in a million. That is a different era. It's a different world. It's a different era. And of course, as we know with Bill Parcells, the New York guy, like that was one of those things where Leon Hess went to him and said, whatever you want, I'll give it to you.
- [36:29]
B
Right. But they were 1 in 15.
- [36:31]
A
You don't have a guy like that.
- [36:32]
B
They had talent. They just. That was a miserable coach in Rich Kotai. But you know what? As bad as the jets were, as bad as their reputation was back then, they're the New England Patriots. Compared to the last 15 years.
- [36:47]
A
Right.
- [36:47]
B
They were just. They were another losing organization, another team that hadn't won a wall. The Patriots hadn't won in a while. Saints hadn't won in a while.
- [36:55]
A
Yeah.
- [36:56]
B
You know, and now they've taken it to another level. Fifteen years.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah.
- [37:02]
B
least the jets had moments back in the 90s, right. They had teams like even in the 80s, like 15 years of 110 lousy 10 win season, otherwise being losing every single year.
- [37:16]
C
It's just like. I guess I understand the point more if you had more evidence of it working out.
- [37:22]
B
Like no evidence.
- [37:25]
C
If you were really sure that you throw one year completely in the toilet. You know, you're going to get the QB and you're good. But like guys, I can go chapter and verse with you on times when we. My team started over again, traded everyone imaginable. The biggest heave in the biggest haul I think in draft history to move up and go get Robert Griffin III from Baylor. And it led to one fun season, a rookie of the year and then a complete. Did not work out.
- [37:57]
A
Yeah.
- [37:58]
C
And guess what? The guy who stayed your quarterback, who could have been your quarterback for a decade, Kirk Cousins, you gotten like the late in the third round and you could have gotten him no matter what. He was the guy that you should have gotten. And instead you he everything you could to go up to get to 2.
- [38:17]
G
So.
- [38:17]
C
So what are we doing?
- [38:18]
A
But I also want to point out that this is a much different situation than anywhere else in the NFL.
- [38:23]
C
Why?
- [38:24]
A
Because notes, no franchise has had a longer playoff drought since the merger than the New York Jets. Like, that's, you got to keep that in mind. This is not like, you know, they haven't made the playoffs in a couple of years. This is not something like that at all. This is, I mean, this should crush most franchises. This is, this is generationally bad football, right?
- [38:49]
B
And make it worse.
- [38:51]
A
No team, no franchise has gone through something like this since the merger. You, you have, you have to go back. Like think about the Pittsburgh Steelers went 24 years, their, their drought ended in 1972. Like that, like, that's the, that's what you have to go back. Prior to the AFL and the whole merge and all that stuff, prior to Super Bowls. That's, that's what we're talking about. We've never seen this in the modern NFL. Something this bad for this long and you want to perpetuate it because of hope.
- [39:22]
C
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- [39:57]
B
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C
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- [40:05]
G
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- [42:27]
A
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [42:31]
C
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [42:32]
A
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. So I have a weather update. It's freaking snowing right now.
- [42:46]
C
Yeah, it's snowing, folks.
- [42:47]
A
What? What the hell? I mean, it's not like a little bit of snow. Like it's, it's a heavy snow coming down right now outside my window. I don't like the way it's, the
- [43:01]
C
way it's coming down is real snow now. I don't think anyone's hitting the ground and staying.
- [43:06]
A
Probably not at no accumulation, but it's still jarring.
- [43:09]
C
Well, no, this is, this is. Guys, with the year we've had, with the year that we've had, don't we deserve to get hit with like a little bit of March? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised. We got another little 3 inch, like actual accumulation sometime. I mean, this year's been epic. It's got to close out.
- [43:25]
A
I'm good.
- [43:27]
B
This is what March is supposed to be. What? What happened back on Tuesday when it was almost 80, that was the aberration. This is the norm. We're not even in the middle of March and we're supposed to have weather like this. But still, to get that tease, it was almost like not worth having because now this one hits worse. That was too much of a tease, man. It was a great day. That was when I was a rampo walking around the camp. It was beautiful.
- [43:51]
A
Beautiful. Yeah.
- [43:52]
B
And then you're a ramp.
- [43:53]
C
Look at you.
- [43:54]
B
And then it was pouring rain, really, ever since. And then now, today.
- [43:58]
A
Snow, snow, snow, everyone. So if you're in a car heading home, be safe, take it slow. We've been through this. We'll get through it. We'll get you through it. And tomorrow, if you're in the city, you can see us live from the Irish exit at Moynihan Train Hall. That's of course tomorrow, March 13, before the semifinal round of the Big east tournament that St. John's has advanced to, which we would expect, of course, they won today. They'll be in the first semifinal. I believe that's a 5:30 tip. And if it is, we start at 3. You come hang out with us pre game with us and just go right across the street and walk in the building and then watch the Johnny's try to make their way back to the championship game. Of course, it's John Hanan Rosenberg. It is live from the Irish exit at Moynihan Train hall. We start at 3pm tomorrow, just steps away from the Garden and of course Penn Station. And you know it's brought to you by Schweppes above the Rim Refreshment. Feel the madness. Refresh your game with a Schweppes seltzer and Schweppes ginger ale. Sam Adams and Sun Cruiser vodka iced tea available at Jack Doyle's and John Sullivan's. Must be 21 or older to purchase. Please drink responsibly. 800-919-3776. Lots of calls on the jet conversation. Let's go. You know, Mike and Hawthorne has a very interesting question here for you, Donnie.
- [45:17]
E
Hey, Mike.
- [45:18]
A
What's up, Mike?
- [45:19]
E
Hey, how you doing? How you doing, guys? How's everything going?
- [45:21]
A
All right? Great. Snowing. Not great.
- [45:24]
E
It's snowing. I was just on Route 17 in over by Hasbro Kites and it was freaking Snowing, like legit snowing. Listening to all this. First of all, anybody who thinks that you should tank was never an athlete, never coached athletes, never played competitive sports. Because if you, if you, if you want to, if you want to play. And you again, I'm so annoyed at morning guys, especially the number one draft pick of the goalie. And I'm an Islander fan since I'm a little kid. For him to sit there and say it's okay just to play, take to the rest of the bozos on that show in the morning is ridiculous. Because you know what? These guys only have a short period, a short life to play. You know that. You know, you guys know that. And for them to want to tank. Peter made a good point. If you have five games left, four games left, and you know that you've got absolutely no shot, guys got hurt, whatever, and you want to put a product on the field that you know is going to be really difficult to win, that's fine.
- [46:25]
B
Okay?
- [46:26]
E
I'm a season ticket holder for the jets and I'm not even a Jet fan.
- [46:29]
A
Right.
- [46:30]
E
I called up about tickets and why the ticket prices went up. When I heard your conversation yesterday that they're basically, you know, when they got Geno Smith, who I have no problem with Geno Smith. He's great. He seems like a real nice guy. But you're basically telling me who's spending a s money on tickets and on parking and on get it. Bringing my wife to the game and bringing my friends to the game that you are just. You know what, Mike, thanks for your X amount of dollars, but you know what? I wish I had just thrown it in the fireplace because that's what it's worth. I called my guy today, my contact that I've had forever, and I said, hey, Tommy, what the hell are you doing? He goes, mike, you're about the 50th guy to call today after what happened yesterday with the Geno Smith. And I'm like, okay, so what are you going to do? You're going to give me, you know, 10% off my tickets? You're going to give me somebody. He goes, no, that. That's just kind of. Just kind of the way it is. I'm like, that's on my. And I know what you're going to say, it's my fault because I buy the tickets. You're 100% right. But you know what? It's just so. It's so frustrating.
- [47:28]
B
No, but I don't think Geno Smith, Mike, is tanking. I think they're, they're trying to win games and he's the best of what was a poor lot of quarterbacks to replace him. That's a different conversation, but to the players point, because that's what I'll hear. Like Rick will say, I'm not telling the players to tank. The players should try to win. But who wants to play for an organization when a player is trying to win but the organization's not backing them up, the organization's not giving those players the best chance to go out there and win, Wouldn't you feel disrespected, guys, if you're trying to win a football game, but your coaches and your general manager and your organization aren't giving you the best tools in which to go out there and do it? So, yeah, no, the players aren't going to tank, but the players want to know that they're playing for a team that wants to win the game. Now, Peter makes a good point about last game of the season. I understand, I don't like it, but I can understand it. But for the game plan to be the trust, the process, lose, lose, lose until we get the quarterback to me is just an ignorant concept to me.
- [48:29]
A
We knew they were raising prices well before Geno Smith. We knew that was going to be the case. They claim it's because they lost a home game last year. Reason why the prices go up is the. They don't have as many home. Whatever it is, there was a reason for it. But I feel like, and we said this at the time that we got this information because we had a lot of. We had a lot of season ticket holders tell us that when they got their vouchers for next year, as they're saying the prices are going up. As an owner, this is tone depth as an owner, you know, you've had awful seasons. This one was a garbage season. That's one where you look at your group and you go, listen, we're gonna take the hit this year.
- [49:07]
B
Yeah.
- [49:08]
A
It's not right to do this. It's not right. And raise prices. And for all that, all the crap that Dolan gets, the one thing he always does with his teams, if we don't make the playoffs, we don't raise ticket prices. Like, that's just a rule that he has. And I think, you know, if you're Woody Johnson, that's got to be something. It's 15 years, man. These are your most loyal customers and you're gonna keep jacking them up. You're crazy.
- [49:31]
B
Especially that where at least half if not, more than half are coming all the way out from Long Island.
- [49:36]
A
Yep.
- [49:38]
B
That's tough, man.
- [49:39]
A
Yeah.
- [49:40]
B
But.
- [49:40]
C
But you made a really good point,
- [49:41]
B
I think, to the.
- [49:41]
C
To the caller, Don, which is I understand why the Geno. The Geno thing was they could see it that way. But no, Geno is actually a sign we want to win a few games this year. We think. We think we could put something. Someone competent on the field. You want to look at what not having someone competent on the field looks like? Look no further than when they realized Justin Field didn't have it last year. They did not have a competent option. There was no look down the stretch of the season last year that was called we got nothing.
- [50:11]
A
You don't think if they had brought
- [50:13]
C
Justin Fields back, that would have been saying we're losing every game?
- [50:17]
A
Yeah, you're right. He's on. He's on under contract. He's our quarterback.
- [50:21]
C
That's what we're doing. And they actually decided to do something a little better and say, no, we're not trotting out a guy who throws it at 45%. We're gonna bring in a guy who a couple of years ago threw for 4,000 yards.
- [50:33]
B
Really quick before we go to break. I don't think this will hit Peter because he wasn't here, but we're around the same age. Alan. Kofi just sent this to me. Ernie and Astis.
- [50:42]
A
Oh.
- [50:43]
B
Passed away.
- [50:44]
C
No, of course I remember.
- [50:45]
B
Ernie And Astis spent 11 years on WABC TV here in New York on Channel 7. And if you're. You hear the voice, if you see the picture, I'm going to retweet it now. Even if the name doesn't strike you, the face will.
- [50:57]
A
Yeah.
- [50:57]
B
Spent over a decade on abc and you know what. What are you going to say? I, I, you know, you grew up with him.
- [51:06]
A
Yeah. That's literally what you got a pretty
- [51:09]
B
sad day for sure.
- [51:09]
C
Oh, no, Don. He was on for probably the first 10 years I lived here.
- [51:13]
B
Okay.
- [51:14]
C
Yeah. For a while.
- [51:15]
A
Wow.
- [51:16]
C
Oh, yeah. Now he was. That's not to mention some of the great. Some of the great bloopers in news history are also Ernie and asked us should really. Oh, yes.
- [51:26]
A
Oh, okay. Maybe there's a. Maybe There's a top five there.
- [51:29]
C
You know, there could be a top five from YouTube of Ernie and asked
- [51:32]
A
us we could celebrate. We can celebrate the life the way
- [51:34]
B
Only a couple of weeks.
- [51:36]
A
All right. Celebrate. Yeah, I know. Well, we'll. We'll give it a little more time. But Peter does have his own list which is top five to answer to Don and of course in in Peter fashion, get the last word in.
- [51:47]
C
That's right.
- [51:48]
B
Wow.
- [51:49]
A
That's coming up in the 5 o' clock hour. Your calls, 800-937-76. About the old Jet situation. Knicks do beat the Jazz last night, although of course it looked like batting the bunny for a half before they flip the switch and a Celtic game tonight. If you're a Knicks fan, you want to watch and then take a look at the standings because with 15 games to go, there are still opportunities that if this team wants to just wake up and get them, they could. So a lot more to get to. Your call is a big part of it. Stay with us. Don Hunt Rosenberg, ESPN New York.
- [52:18]
C
You know what guys, before we even do that, I have to talk to you about what's happening at FanDuel Sportsbook, folks. That's right, that's right. The season is now and fanduel's giving all customers a profit boost every single day through March 15th. That's until the final 68s revealed. From now until the final 68 are there, you're getting daily profit boost for a chance at booster winnings on college basketball bets. Trust me, you do not want to miss a single day. Build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout, try live betting, jump in after tip off. And best of all, with FanDuel, you get paid instantly when you win. Just visit FanDuel.com local to get started. 21 and over fizzly present New York Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com for help with a gambling problem, call 877-at-Hope and Wire Text open
- [53:11]
A
y467369 thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.
- [53:30]
F
Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces TGL playoffs are here. First Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run
- [53:36]
A
against Los Angeles Golf Club.
- [53:37]
F
Then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers Jupiter Links face off in their playoff debuts.
- [53:42]
A
Who will advance? Keep up its playoffs tune in Tuesday,
- [53:44]
F
March 17th at 6:30pM and 9pM only
- [53:47]
A
on ESPN and the ESPN applied.