Hour 2: Draft Notes & The List

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary

Episode: Hour 2: Draft Notes & The List
Release Date: June 25, 2025

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1. NBA Draft Notes

Host Discussion on the 2025 NBA Draft

• Top Pick Prediction:
  Seth Greenberg predicts that Cooper Flag will be the first overall pick by the Dallas Mavericks.
  “I'm hearing the Dallas with that number one pick you're going to take Cooper Flag.” ([01:53])

• San Antonio Spurs' Draft Strategy:
  Alan Hahn and Seth Greenberg delve into the Spurs' potential moves, emphasizing their strategic position to possibly acquire Giannis Antetokounmpo.
  “San Antonio's got everything you need to make a deal... they have the 2 pick now.” ([03:15])

  Insights:

  • Dylan Harper from Rutgers is highlighted as a valuable asset who can contribute immediately.
  • Spurs' depth in guards allows them flexibility, possibly drafting Harper for trade purposes.
  • Potential pairing of Giannis with Victor Wembanyama and De'Aaron Fox could position Spurs as championship contenders.

• Brooklyn Nets' Five First-Round Picks:
  Seth Greenberg points out the Nets' unprecedented possession of five first-round picks in the same draft.
  “The Nets have five first-round picks. Never in the NBA's lottery history has a team made five first-round picks in the same draft.” ([05:00])

  Key Points:

  • Trey Johnson is speculated as the potential number eight pick.
  • Ace Bailey from Rutgers could emerge as a top-three pick, influenced by his selective approach to team selection.
  • Malawak from Duke is noted as a desirable center for the Nets.

• Knicks' Coaching Search and Rumors:
  Peter Rosenberg and Seth Greenberg discuss the Knicks' ongoing search for a new head coach amidst speculation about Jason Kidd and Giannis Antetokounmpo.
  “If Giannis is like, hey, I only want to go to one team, then things can work to their advantage.” ([05:00])

  Highlights:

  • Jason Kidd is anticipated to remain with the Dallas Mavericks, weakening Knicks' prospects.
  • The Knicks may struggle to assemble a competitive coaching package without Kidd.
  • Leon Rose's strategy appears to be shifting as the likelihood of securing Kidd diminishes.

• Player Movements and Contracts:
  Bridges' Potential Trade:
  PJ Carlissimo brings up rumors about Bridges potentially being traded due to an impending max contract.
  “Frank Isola tweeted this about the possibility of Bridges getting dealt because he might get a max contract that would kick in.” ([10:56])

  Discussion Points:

  • Bridges could either accept a big extension or seek free agency.
  • The Knicks prioritize roster continuity but face challenges with recent coaching changes.
  • Anticipated increased player movement leading up to January, with Boston also being active.

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2. Phonatics Fest 2025 Announcement

Event Promotion and Highlights
The hosts announce the upcoming Phonatics Fest 2025, highlighting notable guests and special packages.

Notable Mentions:

• Brock Ward, Taye Diggs, Stefan Deep, Ian Marty Lyons, Ed Hospitar, Bob Manfred, and Thibaut Diao are among the featured personalities.
  “Phonatics Fest 2025 is here. Who needs people like Tom Brady and LeBron James when we've got Brock Ward.” ([14:29])

• Special VIP packages include meet-and-greets with legends like Ed Craig and Bull.
  “Don Hahn: Step aside. Michael Rubin and Rosenberg have the real Rolodex.” ([15:04])

• Acknowledgment of Sydney Parts' Milestone:
  “Don, did you tweet? Rest in peace to Sydney parts. Yeah. 92. He passed away. It's his birthday today.” ([15:24])

Energy and Excitement:

• The hosts express enthusiasm about the event, anticipating high attendance and exclusive interactions.
  “This is amazing. We're gonna get tens and tens of people to attend.” ([16:00])

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3. The List: Top Five Local Ownage

Definition of "Ownage":
Peter Rosenberg explains "ownage" as a term borrowed from San Francisco Giants' broadcasts, referring to one team consistently outperforming another.
“Ownage is it's a kuiper ism from the San Francisco Giants broadcast. Like if a pitcher is owned...” ([23:13])

Top Five Local Ownage:

1. Mets vs. Braves

   • Performance: Mets have lost the season series to the Braves seven consecutive years, with an all-time record of 192-249 since 2000.
   • “The Mets have lost the season series to the Braves seven consecutive years... 0.435 winning percentage.” ([27:20])
   • Insight: Despite the Mets' occasional successes, their consistent losses to the Braves highlight a significant disparity.

2. Eagles vs. Giants

   • Performance: Since 2010, the Philadelphia Eagles hold a 24-7 advantage over the New York Giants, including playoff victories.
   • “Eagles since 2010 are 24 and seven against the Giants...” ([25:55])
   • Insight: The Eagles' dominance is a long-standing issue for Giants fans, affecting team morale and fan sentiment.

3. Jets vs. Patriots

   • Performance: The New York Jets have been outperformed by the New England Patriots, especially notable from November 27, 2016, to September 24, 2023, with a 4-15 record.
   • “Jets were losing 15 consecutive games to the New England Patriots.” ([26:28])
   • Insight: The Patriots' consistent victories have rendered the Jets less competitive in matchups.

4. Devils vs. Rangers

   • Performance: Between 1997 and 2007, the New Jersey Devils dominated the New York Rangers with a 32-7-14 record and a playoff sweep in 2006.
   • “Devils were 32, 7 and 14 against the Rangers and they swept them in their one playoff appearance in that span in '06.” ([29:06])
   • Insight: The Devils' strategic gameplay during this period established them as a formidable opponent to the Rangers.

5. Bulls vs. Knicks

   • Performance: From 1989 to 1996, the Chicago Bulls, led by Michael Jordan, maintained a 198- record against the New York Knicks in the playoffs.
   • “The Jordan led Bulls beat the Knicks every time they faced him in the playoffs with a record of 198...” ([29:38])
   • Insight: Jordan's influence was pivotal in the Bulls' dominance over the Knicks, making it a memorable rivalry.

Listener Engagement:

• Caller Contributions:
  Callers provide additional examples and discuss historical rivalries, enhancing the list's depth.
  “So I was thinking about maybe the Angels against the Yankees in the early 2000s...” ([41:11])

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4. Listener Call-ins and Interactive Discussions

Engagement with the Audience:

• Richard's Call:
  Discusses the Yankees vs. Angels rivalry, noting the Yankees' postseason struggles despite facing strong opponents like the Angels.
  “The Yankees have been losing to the Angels in the postseason despite their overall success.” ([41:11])

• PJ Carlissimo's Call:
  Critiques the Yankees' bullpen management, advocating for longer outings by relief pitchers to reduce inefficiencies.
  “A relief pitcher minimum should go at least 20 pitches.” ([42:30])

Key Takeaways:

• Yankees' Postseason Performance:
  Persistent inability to score in critical moments is a recurring theme hindering their championship aspirations.

• Bullpen Strategy Critique:
  Calls for a reevaluation of pitcher usage to maintain momentum and enhance game outcomes.

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5. Miscellaneous Discussions

Phonatics Fest and Community Engagement:

• Emphasis on community events and interactions with sports legends, fostering a strong listener relationship.

Sports Rivalries and Fan Sentiments:

• In-depth conversations about rivalries, fan behaviors, and the impact of team performances on fan loyalty and antagonism.

Notable Quotes:

• “If Jason Kidd came here and Giannis came here, well, home run.” ([09:38])
• “You just know it was a big old nothing burger with cheese.” ([19:17])
• “The Yankees have been owned by the whole league.” ([32:28])

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6. Conclusion

The Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast episode "Hour 2: Draft Notes & The List" offers a comprehensive analysis of the 2025 NBA Draft, highlighting key predictions and team strategies, particularly focusing on the Dallas Mavericks, San Antonio Spurs, and Brooklyn Nets. The hosts delve into the Knicks' coaching search, discussing the implications of potential hires and the team's future trajectory without cornerstone figures like Jason Kidd and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

The episode also features an engaging segment on "The List," detailing the top five instances of local sports teams being consistently outperformed by their rivals, a concept termed "ownage." This segment not only provides statistical insights but also resonates with fan sentiments and historical rivalries.

Interactive discussions with listeners further enrich the episode, offering diverse perspectives on team performances and strategic decisions. The announcement of Phonatics Fest 2025 adds an exciting community event angle, highlighting the hosts' efforts to engage and grow their listener base.

Overall, this episode combines in-depth sports analysis with lively discussions and listener interactions, making it a valuable resource for fans seeking comprehensive coverage of current sports dynamics and future prospects.

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Notable Quotes:

• “We're gonna have plenty of picks though to choose from.” — Alan Hahn ([05:07])
• “You can Venmo everything.” — Unknown Sponsor Voice ([40:24])
• “We have a lot on our plate.” — Doug Hahn and Seth Greenberg ([16:31])

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Timestamp Highlights:

• [01:53] Seth Greenberg predicts Cooper Flag as the top NBA draft pick.
• [03:15] Discussion on Spurs' draft strategy and potential acquisition of Giannis.
• [05:00] Analysis of Brooklyn Nets' five first-round picks.
• [08:52] Knicks' coaching search and Jason Kidd rumors.
• [14:29] Announcement of Phonatics Fest 2025.
• [22:51] Introduction to "The List: Top Five Local Ownage."
• [27:20] Mets vs Braves statistics.
• [29:38] Bulls vs Knicks historical performance.
• [41:11] Listener call-in discussing Yankees vs Angels rivalry.
• [42:30] Critique of Yankees' bullpen management by PJ Carlissimo.

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This summary aims to provide a comprehensive overview of the key discussions and insights shared during the podcast episode, ensuring that even those who haven't listened can grasp the essential content and takeaways.

Transcript

[Sponsor Voice]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers, 402 in the big city.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don Hahn and Rosenberg up to 6:30. Now you might be wondering, where's Al?

[Alan Hahn]

Wait. Hey, where's Alan?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alan is hosting the 2025 NBA Draft from Brooklyn tonight with PJ Barlissimo and Seth Greenberg. So he had to take off. However, he has made himself available here at 4 o' clock to talk draft, to talk Knicks and coaching and possible trades. We're hearing a lot of rumors that a lot of picks might be flying today and tomorrow. Remember, the draft is a two day extravaganza and Alan Hahn is, is nice enough to join us from Brooklyn. How are you on your own show?

[Seth Greenberg]

How you holding it down, boys? This process is a lot of cramming and a lot of studying and a lot of meetings. And the best part is once you get into this little epicenter of the NBA and the draft, you meet and see a lot of familiar faces and people you haven't seen in a while. And oh boy, did the rumors start to run. Oh boy, like you get all kinds of intel. It's crazy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Anything jumping out that might be something that.

[Alan Hahn]

Come on now. Don't hold back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on.

[Seth Greenberg]

All right, I'm, I'm hearing the Dallas with that number one pick you're going to take Cooper flag.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Seth Greenberg]

I know that's a high. I know that's a big one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I probably blew up all your prep, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I told you, I thought you knew.

[Seth Greenberg]

I told you I'm bringing it. I told you I'm bringing it.

[Alan Hahn]

This guy's bringing heat right in the gate.

[Seth Greenberg]

The same thing we said to Dodge has said to Harrison, don't waste our time. There's no clock. When Adam Silver comes out and he says, al, the clock, you just know we're good. We know who we're taking. It's this guy. But it's after that obviously is really where the draft, guys, that's where it really sets off and there'll Be a lot of boos, Be interesting to see some things. So the first thing I'll tell you is this is San Antonio is a big time team to watch in this draft. Remember what I told you guys earlier this week, the Giannis thing? I said the Giannis is not off the table.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Seth Greenberg]

But despite what they're saying in Milwaukee and despite everything that you might be hearing or people are trying to read tea leaves with Giannis, the chatter around here is that San Antonio. And I'll give Brian Windhorst all the credit because he's been hinting this for a couple of weeks now.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Seth Greenberg]

I do know the Knicks are very interested if he ever became available. It would be very difficult for them to put a package together that would compete with a lot of other teams. But if Giannis is like, hey, I only want to go to one team, then things can work to their advantage. But. So they're sort of still on the outside. But San Antonio's got everything you need to make a deal. And they have the 2 pick now. Rutgers. Dylan Harper, I think, is a fantastic player. I think he's a guy that can step in the league and play right away and be impactful. And they don't need him right now on their roster because they have de' Aaron Fox, they have Stefan Castle, who they drafted last year from UConn, who was rookie of the like, they have plenty of guards. They don't need him. So why would they draft him? Well, because maybe they're drafting him for another team and they've got a couple. They got a couple of picks, they have some young players. Like, it could be an interesting package they could put together if they wanted to get a guy like Giannis and put him with Victor Wembanyama and de' Aaron Fox and have themselves a team that could really play for a championship in the West. So there's something right there. What they do in the drafts, because they need a big man, they actually need a center to play next to Wembanyama. If they go that route or trade out of the two, that'll tell you that maybe the honest thing is off the table. But if they take Harper, you're like, why? You don't need a player like that. It's too many of the same thing. Maybe it's for something later. So that's one thing I would definitely watch tonight. Big Story tonight.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, any other major storylines that you're hearing about, Anything that's. Anything else that surprised you?

[Seth Greenberg]

Well, I mean, one thing also, you want to Go local. Let's go local. You've got The Nets have five first round picks.

[Alan Hahn]

Crazy.

[Seth Greenberg]

Never in the NBA's lottery history as a team made five first round picks in the same draft. The closest we've had is four. Twice the tap in the most recent Minnesota in 2009. And from all accounts, Brooklyn is planning on keeping every pick and making every pick.

[Alan Hahn]

Is Trey Johnson, is Trey Johnson going it with their first pick at 8?

[Seth Greenberg]

If he gets there, I mean that's, that's what you have to see is who falls, right? But how it all falls and what ends up happening with Ace Bailey, another Rutgers guy who could be the Shador standards of this draft in some ways where he's, he should be like a top three pick. He could drop a bit. He has sent messages out by not working out for certain teams. Hey, I don't really want to go there. He's trying to choose where he goes. So that's all things to watch. But if he does it, if he goes early, Malawak, who's the center at Duke, everybody loves him. And you know, I think for the Nets, what a great pickup that would be. He might be gone by then, so. But, but Trey Johnson will be a really nice figure. The guy can score. It's a good start for them. They're gonna have plenty of picks though to choose from. But that's a, that's a lot of picks for one team to make. And usually you see a team that gets five first round picks, they're going to try to package a few of them, move things around or even trade up. So I, I keep an eye on the Nets, but if they make all five, keep in mind that'd be history. They make all five on the night. Now I'm stalling, but guys, we've been talking about the Knicks in their coaching search, right? And we know that's something that all Nick fans are saying. When the hell are they going to hire a coach? And we were speculating. I guess he was, I think yesterday we were doing this right, that the longer Dallas goes without giving Jason Kidd an extension, the more you wonder if, okay, after the draft they are making the number one pick. Maybe they're just trying to not have one piece of news overshadow another. Maybe after the draft more things will come of this. That part could be true, but not in favor of the Knicks. It, it's really sounding like Jason kids not leaving Dallas. It sounds like the kid thing with the Knicks is their hope of prying him out of there. But he Is all indications suggest he's very locked in there. Obviously, when you get a guy like Cooper Flag, when you have a team that they have already, when he's as established as he is, their family wise and everything else, it would take a lot for him to get to come at it. He would have to hate it there. Which is not the case though for the Knicks. Them waiting on Jason Kidd and a lot of us that were speculating they must, something must still be there because Houston gave Udoka an extension right away. Dallas has not done it. And by the way, Chicago is negotiating an extension for Billy Donovan, who the Knicks also called up. So you see like the impact of a team showing interest leads to that, that coach getting an extension, getting some security. Kid got a two year extension last, last May. He needs, he wants more years to really get himself established. Especially when you have a young talent like Flag, you want to be around for the next couple of years, you want stability. So there was some thought about the Knicks perhaps maybe still holding out hope that they could get Kidd. But a lot of the buzz around here is that that is not going to happen and that Jason Kidd will end up staying in Dallas. He will get some type of an extension at some point. But the Knicks now will be left to decide who they want to choose as a head coach. And it probably won't be anybody that is working for a team right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it takes a hit because our criticism of a lot of fans that have been critical of the Knicks letting Tibs go is, let's see how this ends up playing out. And if Jason Kidd came here and Giannis came here, well, home run. But it's sounding more and more like Giannis is going to end up in San Antonio and Kid's going to stay in Dallas. And that's really not going to look great for the Knicks. It could still turn out to be good. Maybe the next coach they bring in does get him to the next level. And the east has opened up and you know, Porzingis got traded out of Boston. So Boston is continuing their rebuild, although Atlanta gets a little stronger because of that move. But still the east is open. But boy, that's not going to be great if both Kid and Giannis are not here and we still at this moment don't know who the next coach is.

[Seth Greenberg]

Yeah. And the bigger concern, Don, is this is okay. So it does bring on the feel of you fired a coach without a plan. Right. Because the first thing they did was try to pry another coach out of a situation. And you Know, we always base things on, okay, look at it at face value. They must know something. They must know that, you know, X coach doesn't want to be in his situation and is looking to leave and just needs, you know, needs a reason. But everybody that they called on and really, the. The three guys that they were most interested in, I think we said this when. When Tibbs was fired, I gave you those names and, you know, Kid was one, Udoko was another, and Finch in Minnesota was the third. Those are the three that I really felt strong about. I thought. And we, again, we all just assume things is, oh, they must know something. And when all three were not allowed to speak with them, that's when you start to say, okay, was that really just grasping at straws? Were you just seeing, hey, let's see who we can. Who we can shake out before we go. Talk to the only coaches that are available. And now it leads you to whoever you hire next. Is that a better coach than what you had?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's going to be hard to say.

[Seth Greenberg]

A lot of now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Seth Greenberg]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Guys, like. Like, we had to let it play out. We did. We gave them the benefit of the doubt. But as, you know, as now, more and more information comes out and reality starts to set in. You know, now the pool of coaches that they have to choose from and what's left to be said is, whoever it is, will it end up being better than what you had?

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, before we let you go, because I know you got a lot on your plate. Frank Isola tweeted this out before about the possibility of Bridges getting dealt because he might get a max contract that would kick in. So what's the feasibility of him being moved?

[Seth Greenberg]

That's been something we've, you know, reasonably speculated because of exactly that. It's. It's. It's a big extension right now, and he could turn it down and try to get more as a free agent if he wanted to try to do that. So I don't even know what his intentions would be. The fit was there in the playoffs. You saw it, but it took a while to get there. The Knicks have been preaching continuity. Now, I say that out of one side of my mouth. On the other side of the mouth, they just fired the coach who's been there for five years, but still, they want roster continuity. They believe in that starting five. They want to have more time together. The sense is, is they probably would lean towards keeping him. But this market and what you're going to see over the Next couple of days, especially starting tonight, there's going to be a lot of pick movement tonight, guys. But between now and the first week of January, July, it sounds like there's gonna be a lot of player movement. We've already seen some. Boston's not done, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

Really?

[Seth Greenberg]

There's more to. More. Oh, yeah, no, there's more.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How much more meat on the bone do they have?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. What?

[Seth Greenberg]

Well, I would keep an eye on Horford White. And I would keep. And I would keep. No, I would keep an eye on Derek White. I'd keep an eye on Jalen Brown. There are. Okay. Hey, there are a lot of teams calling about this. That remains to be seen, because you're seeing it. You're seeing movement in a lot of.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't have any movement. This subject gives me.

[Seth Greenberg]

No, actually, it's not going to help you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If it's moving anywhere, it's moving in.

[Seth Greenberg]

Because you're a Celtics fan.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not moving the right direction. It ain't moving up.

[Seth Greenberg]

I say. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on a second. I thought you were a new Knicks fan. I thought you had transformed yourself to a Knicks fan.

[Alan Hahn]

That's. I do care for the Knicks. I do care for the Knicks. I have a lot of. There's, you know, oh, wow, my heart is very big.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's like a. More. Yeah, he's. He's from Utah.

[Alan Hahn]

Excuse me. See, that's not. Now. Now I have something for you, Alan.

[Seth Greenberg]

But those are. Those are interesting. I'll tell you. Those are things to watch. I mean, a lot of player movement. That's why the bridge. You know, bridges could be an asset. If something suddenly comes up and you're like, whoa, I didn't know that guy was available. We've got. You know, you'd have to move bodies for bodies. You know, guys like him and Mitchell Robinson are definitely players and contracts that are movable. And the Knicks don't have a lot of assets, but those are some that they do have that they could get involved in a. In a trade if. If something does come up. That we'll see.

[Alan Hahn]

We shall see. Now, before we let you go, last thing I. I didn't want to wait till we see you Friday. We have very big news to share with you about something going on at the radio station. I think you're going to be very happy and proud that we got the work done. So if anyone's tuning in late. Who missed the 3 o' clock hour big announcement? Allen's first time hearing it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So here you go.

[Don Hahn]

Phonatics Fest 2025 is here. Who needs people like Tom Brady and LeBron James when we've got Brock Ward.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Taye Diggs, Stefan Deep, Ian, Marty Lyons, Ed Hospitar, Bob Manfred, Comm.

[Alan Hahn]

Thibaut Diao.

[Don Hahn]

Step aside. Michael Rubin, Don Han and Rosenberg have the real Rolodex.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You familiar with the work of David Blow?

[Don Hahn]

Stars like John Frenchie, Fuqua Udecki.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Is that his name?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Uduko.

[PJ Carlissimo]

And I know Zack Zauber. He was the crew chief. He's a Brooklyn guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ben Judicus was on. He's a little nervous.

[Alan Hahn]

Jadakiss.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jadakiss from Zaros.

[Don Hahn]

Plus, it's your opportunity to rub shoulders with the true near greats like Freddy Keith, Mr.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Unlimited, Dave Brigadi wasn't that hot. I'd love to sit down, talk to Owen Nolan.

[Don Hahn]

And don't miss our special VIP package where you can spend time with some of the legends who've left us too soon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ed Craig, Bull.

[Alan Hahn]

Don, did you tweet? Rest in peace to Sydney parts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. 92. He passed away. It's his birthday today. No, no, no. Oh. Turns 92.

[Alan Hahn]

Dear God. Oh, we're so excited, Alan, that we're all going to be able to produce this event.

[Seth Greenberg]

I can't wait for this.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it's gonna be a big day.

[Seth Greenberg]

This is amazing. We're gonna get.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, think about it.

[Seth Greenberg]

We're gonna get tens and tens of people to attend.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, wait for. Really wait for the Hospitar meet and greet? You kidding me?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But. But listen, Brock.

[Alan Hahn]

Brock Ward.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but how much would you pay to go to heaven to visit Ed Crane pool? That's the thing about that and Sydney party.

[Seth Greenberg]

Yeah, well, Frenchie Fuqua alone is probably gonna have a line out the door.

[Alan Hahn]

By the way, Frenchie Fuqua, I think could have been in a couple different categories.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we're not have to look up to see.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know. And also, also the fact that we're going to have a booth where you can meet not only Taye Diggs, but also Stefan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. That's pretty good.

[Alan Hahn]

Anyways, Alan, good luck. Good luck tonight. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Seth Greenberg]

All right, boys.

[Alan Hahn]

There he is.

[Seth Greenberg]

Great.

[Alan Hahn]

Alan Hahn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he'll be on the draft coverage with PJ Carlissimo and Seth Greenberg at 7:30 on 10:50 drop. So he's. He's done it for the last couple of years and I know he's excited about it. So the breaking news from Alan is. Is that Cooper flag will be taken first overall. Yeah, we got that here by Dallas.

[Alan Hahn]

By the way, I have breaking news as well. This is also Big John, Frenchy Fuqua still with us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, good. So now you don't have to pay for the Heaven package. No, you can get them very pricey.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, you get them in the living package.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You get them in the living package, which is very affordable. Because that's the one thing about.

[Alan Hahn]

About phone addicts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Phone addicts is it's very affordable.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, yeah, we, whatever they're charging you at Fanatics Fest, which is a pretty good deal, we, we lower it by a few bucks. We want to make sure everyone comes to phone addicts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But interesting that the momentum seems to be driving away that Jason Kidd is going to be the coach of this team.

[Alan Hahn]

Pretty crazy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And momentum is also driving away from Giannis being a Knick. And if they come up empty on both, then Alan's right. Then the feeling is going to be the Knicks didn't have a plan. Now, I can't believe Leon Rose didn't have a plan. What I do believe is, was he sold a bill of goods. Did Jason Kidd tell him, I want to coach for you. Don't give up. I'm going to try to find a way. We'll deal with compensation because I'm sure Dallas didn't say anything to him, Peter. So why would they be so convinced that Jason Kidd would be obtainable? Why were they so convinced that all of these coaches that were under contract could become available? Was it arrogance?

[Alan Hahn]

No. No, they weren't. But this is what you said, Don. They, they just said, we know the answer is not tibs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, not tibs.

[Alan Hahn]

So it being that it's not tibs, we're going to go out to everyone who's available, see what we can find.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But as teams say no, then you're going to go down far on your list. And even if you can convince the general public that it's better than Tibbs, it may be maybe a harder sell. Right. Is Mike Brown clearly better than Tibbs?

[Alan Hahn]

No, absolutely not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is Norrie clearly better than Tibbs? Of course not. Like, now, even Jason Kidd's debatable. But you could say, well, Jason Kidd took Dallas to a final. He's, you know, he's a former player, played for the Knicks. Like, you could sell Jason Kidd easily.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You could probably Adoka, you could probably sell him, but everybody else, it's going to be very debatable. But no. This further confirms what I believe it had nothing to do with. We think we can do better. We Just want anybody but tips and we're going to reach for the stars and get the best coaches available.

[Alan Hahn]

And so far, guess what? That's a big old nothing burger with cheese.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We are comfortable with it being somebody that's not tips.

[Alan Hahn]

Correct. And we hope it's someone people get excited about. But either way, we've made our decision.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't agree with that.

[Alan Hahn]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't even think they care about the hope. Like I don't think they care about the cell like we care about it. But at the end of the day, they might be just like, well, we'll sell it. And if the. If the fans love it, they love it. If they lap it up, they lap it up. If they ignore it, they ignore it. But we know we'll be sold out opening day and we got a chance to win a championship and if we start winning games, they'll fall in love with the guy, you know.

[Alan Hahn]

But how can you be sure you're going to win more games?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's, well, I guess the whole right now Indiana's not going to have their best player. The Celtics are blowing it up. But you're right, Peter. What if Detroit takes the next step? What if Orlando takes the next step? And oh, by the way, the team that won the conference in the regular season, the Cleveland Cavaliers, are coming back and maybe they're going to figure it out. So I don't think it's a fait accompli that this team is just going to advance to the NBA finals next year. But as far as a needle mover, I think that's a media thing. I don't think Leon Rose cares about that. I think his objective was to get the coach that these players want to play for. And maybe it'll be Jason Kidd. But it doesn't sound like it. And it doesn't sound like a big studs coming. KD is already in Houston.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you know what they say about when a big studs coming, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look out. Coming up the list or look up depends on your angle.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Seth Greenberg]

After.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Seth Greenberg]

You just made the list, buddy.

[Don Hahn]

This is the list with Don Han and Rosenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now time for the list, which is brought to you by three bet365. Bet365. So you take a look at what the Braves have done to the Mets. Right. So I start at the. Think.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, boy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Top five local ownage. Now, if you're not familiar with ownage, it's a. It's a kuiper ism from the San Francisco Giants broadcast. Like if.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, it is. That's where I got it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't. You know, I'm not going to steal. I borrowed. Where you know, if a pitcher is owned, a hitter. Hitter hasn't had a hit against them in like 20 at bats. He said that's ownage. So local teams that have been owned by other teams. Like the way the Mets own the Braves.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, so you're talking about the. The New York team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Being owned. Is owned by another team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes. So it's more of a negative list than a positive list.

[Alan Hahn]

I want to. I know you don't. We don't do the guessing anymore because I kind of want to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We'll do it.

[Alan Hahn]

Huh?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Huh?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, like you dream about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dream about. Yeah. Give Me, the.

[Alan Hahn]

The current day New York Yankees and the Houston Astros. Please.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know I didn't know that. My God, what the hell is.

[Alan Hahn]

Are you out of your mind?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They cheated to get it.

[Alan Hahn]

That's not the matter. It's still owning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's not ownage, that's steelage.

[Alan Hahn]

Anthony, you don't think the Astros own the Yankees?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It didn't come up.

[Alan Hahn]

But now just thinking about it, you don't think that as a.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, you don't even know the other five yet. Wait a minute. But I'm just saying I don't think you're crazy. I think it should at least be a mention of an honorable mention. But there's a. There's a reason for like, like would you sit there and you say boy, I wonder why the Mets can't beat the Braves. And if I said. Well, there was one time the Braves were had players and managers fired because of cheating. And another time where we swear to God the guy that hit the game winning home run was wired like there's a reason. I guess if you got a reason for ownage.

[Alan Hahn]

But I bets now you're leaning into that's you believing the Yankee propaganda machine. I just think they own. I. I'm just saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Interesting.

[Alan Hahn]

I do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah. I don't.

[Alan Hahn]

That. That whole. Oh if we did every team's doing stuff and we don't have any proof. Has any proof ever fully came out of the. Of the. Of the wire jersey?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a. Just the fact that a guy that had no problem. You know, I know it was weird showing his body. It was weird.

[Alan Hahn]

No question. I just. And by the way, I think the Yankees probably do their stuff too. They just never got busted for it. So that's why is it really they all. This is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You've just developed the 5 o' clock hour for us.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay so. All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So Peter thinks the Yankees are full of blank 1891 and I'm always surprised.

[Alan Hahn]

When Cashman brings it up. Honestly, I think it's so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I do think that that's.

[Alan Hahn]

That's very.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I do not.

[Alan Hahn]

Give me the sport breakdown, please.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sport breakdown. We've got two foosball.

[Alan Hahn]

Two foosball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A baseball, a basketball and a hockey.

[Alan Hahn]

Do we have the. Do have the Giants being pwned by the Philadelphia Eagles?

[Peter Rosenberg]

We do.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's number two.

[Seth Greenberg]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. The Eagles since 2010 are 24 and seven against the Giants and that includes that playoff loss that we've talked about quite a bit back in January of 2023 for the. The 22 season.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that was not what you want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Four and seven.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh my God.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Since 2010.

[Alan Hahn]

Like your nightmare about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the Giants did win a Super bowl in that span.

[Alan Hahn]

Didn't matter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Didn't matter. 24 and 7. That's number two.

[Alan Hahn]

So the other ones are yet, I believe, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, when you say yet, the jets, you're talking about the Jets. I got the jets at four against the losing 15 consecutive games to the New England Patriots.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

From November 27, 2016 to September 24, 2023.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not great. All right, so that's four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the reason I put it four is because the jets weren't very good during that span of time. So is it ownage as much as. It's just the jets were bad.

[Alan Hahn]

But 15 straight games and I apologize for doing this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you said two football and you just got the.

[Alan Hahn]

Those are done. And the others are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So we've got it. We've got a baseball, hockey and basketball.

[Alan Hahn]

Baseball, hockey, basketball. How recent is the baseball we were just talking about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm surprised you haven't guessed yet.

[Alan Hahn]

What do. We were just talking about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you're going Mets, Braves.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

How do you not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, and I have it at 1 and in here. I gave you the stats early.

[Alan Hahn]

No, it's a disgusting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Mets have lost the season series to the Braves seven consecutive years. They're 192 and 249 since 2000 against the Braves. That's a.435 winning percentage. And it's not like the Mets were bad that whole time either. In 2000, the Mets went to the World Series. Mets have gone to the World Series in 2015, playoffs in 2016. And they're supposed to be one of the best teams in baseball and now can't be the Brave team that's still under.500.

[Alan Hahn]

Even when everything's new. Even when everything is new and you're winning up a storm. That's the definition of ownage. That's when you know you're owned.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

When your team is now good, better than that team and that team still beats you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the reason why, when we say ownage, like, even if I were to give you the Astros, all right. It's still a fairly brief amount of time compared to 25 years of owners.

[Alan Hahn]

That's it. That's bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, the Eagles have owned the Giants for a decade and a half. I mean, it's ridiculous not beating a team in your own division the way the jets did in seven seasons. It's ridiculous. That's a lot of time, man.

[Alan Hahn]

There's an ABC story that's been repeating bothering me. No, they just. These people stole a swan and they keep showing the video of some idiot stealing a swan and throwing it in their car and it looks like the cops just found them a few minutes later. Kind of morons are these.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I always look at those types of stories on the news. Is that it must be a pretty good day.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what the swan theft is?

[Alan Hahn]

No. You know what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

10 minutes into the.

[Alan Hahn]

It's one of the great takes you've ever had. All right, so now we have. I'm not going to get the hockey.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. No, you're not going to get.

[Alan Hahn]

Give me the hockey.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, the hockey. I've got it. At number five, the Devils over the Rangers. From 1997 to 2007, the Devils were 32, 7 and 14 against the Rangers and they swept them in their one playoff appearance in that span in oh six. So Devils over the Rangers number five. So we've got the Mets getting owned by the Braves is one, Eagles owning the Giants two. We've got the jets being owned by the Patriots four and the Devils owning the Rangers at five. So you're missing three.

[Alan Hahn]

It's basketball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's basketball.

[Alan Hahn]

It's the Knicks and the Bulls.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There you go. From 1989 to 1996, the Jordan led Bulls. So obviously take 94 out because Jordan wasn't there. The Jordan led Bulls beat the Knicks every time they faced him in the playoffs and had a record of 198 in that span of time. You wonder no Jordan with the Knicks have won a championship in the 90s. If there's no Jordan, it's maybe. And with no Jordan they beat the Bulls when Pippen didn't want to take the shot and all that. So there's evidence that Jordan really stood in the way of some really good nick teams. So that is our list.

[Alan Hahn]

What an appropriate non point list that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was brought to you by bet365. Whatever the moment. It's never ordinary at that. 365. So you good?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I feel really good about it. I'm, you know, I'm glad that they. I'm glad that they caught the guys who stole the swan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, stop looking at me Swan.

[Alan Hahn]

And I'm. And I'm glad I did pretty well with that list.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You did.

[Alan Hahn]

Now I still think the Astros could have been in that conversation. I mean, I hear your argument of you don't Count it if you believe they were cheating. Well, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who.

[Alan Hahn]

Who you taking out, I guess is the good question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You could take out again. That Ranger Devil thing.

[Alan Hahn]

It's the Ranger Devil.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rangers were not very good during that span of time. So the Devils were just taking care of business.

[Alan Hahn]

They were good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Rangers were not.

[Alan Hahn]

The Yankees have had great teams and they get to play Houston and they cannot hit the baseball, but they just. They poop the bed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But here's. Here's why I'll push back. Push is that's what the fans would say? Like, wouldn't every Yankee fan say, they didn't own us? They cheated. And it's. And at least the one time they got caught in 2017, which means the Altuve being wired, as crazy as that sounds, and I'm not even a Yankee fan, Peter. But he wouldn't let his jersey be torn off. No, it was already cheated to begin with, so I'm sorry, they don't get the benefit of the doubt. And you had a commissioner that had zero appetite to investigate anything involving the Astros after he barely didn't do anything to them after they cheated in the first place, didn't take the championship away, no players were suspended, and the manager lost his job. Got it back.

[Alan Hahn]

What you're saying is not wrong. I just think it's still ownage. Okay. Like, even if that had an impact. Right. That does. That doesn't change the fact that the Yankees just. How many times, Don, were they just incapable of hitting the ball?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you're right.

[Alan Hahn]

Like that. That wasn't anything. I mean, that's. I'm sorry. That's. Banging trash cans. You banging whoever you want. It doesn't. It doesn't change the fact that Judge can't hit the ball when he plays the Astros in the playoffs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's fine. But let me retort that. When have the Yankees hit the ball in the postseason?

[Alan Hahn]

So you're saying they've been owned by the whole league?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Honestly. Right. When you talk about why the Yankees haven't won, now you're going to say about the errors and how poorly they played in the fifth inning of Game 5. I get that. But the recurring theme with the Yankees in the postseason since their last championship has been the inability to score in the postseason. So when you tell me, oh, Game 7 against the Astros in 2017, even if the Astros cheated, Yankees still didn't get any hits. They lost that game two to one. Well, that's kind of how they lost to the Red Sox. How they lost to the Tigers, how they lost to the Indians back in the day, like all the time you talk about the Yankees failures in the postseason, it seems to be the inability to get the big hit. And the Astros are just one of many teams in the postseason, but it's not a bad one, honestly, for somebody that had to guess and not knowing, not in on the list I curated this with Anthony is that. That was a heck of a guess and it's certainly debatable. You're not wrong. In your opinion. It would definitely be one that I would consider to be an honorable mention for sure.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no. Yeah. I just wanted to hear it out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It really brought back some awful memories. The Eagles, man. Do you realize.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, boy. Some ugly ones. Some ugly ones.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's politically correct, I guess, as a Giant fan, to say that you hate the Cowboys more because it's the Cowboys and they have so many fans and that's kind of how you grew up. Because when I was growing up, the Eagles weren't that great. But looking back at my entire life as a Giants fan, how are the Eagles not number one with a bullet? Like, I can't muster the hatred for the Cowboys that I have for the Eagles. And it's not even the fact, Peter, that they've won in recent vintage. Just like I said, the ownage since 2010, 24 and 7.

[Alan Hahn]

It's bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How can that be? Not good, Bob.

[Alan Hahn]

Not great. No, not great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So do you agree with me or is it still the Cowboys for you, as a commander's fan?

[Alan Hahn]

Um, that's a great. That's a great question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, wow. I didn't think it would even be debatable for you.

[Alan Hahn]

Why do you say that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would think it'd be the Eagles too, for you.

[Alan Hahn]

Most hated. Yeah, I mean, it's, It's. I absolutely loathe them because of how good they are, for sure. But there is something. There is a mystique, a je ne sais quoi to the Cowboys and how many fans they have, the particular fans they have that are so annoying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's interesting because I think if you separated it, it's not even close. No, team wise, because, yeah, I don't know that many Eagle fans. And the Eagle fans that I know are pretty nice guys.

[Alan Hahn]

I know a lot of Eagle, but I know a lot of both, truthfully. And they are nice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. But the Cowboy fans, they come out of the woodwork. It's irritating. But when you look at the actual team, like, no.

[Alan Hahn]

Who do you really hate on the Cowboys right now?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Honestly, how could you. Other than the fact that he was good, is there anything really hateable about Troy Aikman other than he was a Cowboy?

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or Ms. A bit of a pretty Michael Irvin menozzle, You know, but really, I'll say.

[Alan Hahn]

Even this team currently. Do you hate Dak?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

On this team, do you hate Micah Parsons?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I like Micah Parsons. I don't. And I never hated Danny White. Roger Stallback was like.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't hate Romo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Des is annoying. Des likes to be annoying. He's currently annoying still.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. But I think a lot of our hatred for the Cowboys comes from having so many fans and how irritating the fans could be. I think that's really what it comes down to, because when you look at the teams like, there were Eagles, I just couldn't stand Andre Waters. I couldn't stand him. There were just so many guys that I just like, oh, God, Owens. And I just didn't. I just didn't care for the team at all. And their coach right now is a nozzle.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. That. He doesn't. He does not help. I told you. Saquon's even lost.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't even.

[Alan Hahn]

Somehow Saquon put the jersey on and became a nozzle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't even hate Jimmy Johnson. Is that. Is that odd? I. No, no. Why would you hate Jim? I don't love him, but. Oh, he was. He could be nozzle y and all that, but.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but not in a really bad way, but. That son of a bitch Switzer. Well, I'm just kidding.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There was nothing to hate about it.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't hate. I don't hate Sweets.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, coaching is really important.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't hate. You're older than me, so you would know better. Did you hate Landry?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Well, you couldn't hate Landry.

[Alan Hahn]

You had to respect him. Style Landry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because he wore a suit. Well, it was Tom Landry, but he was also an assistant coach with the Giants. The Giants. The Giants had a staff of. Excuse me, Tom. Tom Landry was their defensive coordinator. Vince Lombardi was their offensive coordinator. How good is that? That's a pretty good coach, right?

[Alan Hahn]

It turned out. It turned out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So. My dad always. My dad never really hated the Cowboys for that reason. And you go back because I'm way older than you, but whether it's Roger Stallback, Tony Dorsett, they weren't a hateable team. You were maybe jealous of them, envious of them because they won so much, but there wasn't, like, a lot of hateable guys on that on those Cowboy teams back in the day, in the 70s.

[Alan Hahn]

No, again, it's before my time, but Randy White. No. I have more hate for Cowboy fans than the Cowboys. Whereas the Eagles. I have more hate for the players and coaches.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And less for the fans. Although the fans that we see in Philly look horrible. But not the ones I know here, like my friends from the Philadelphia area do not resemble.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got the two. The two Eagle fans that I know the most are Andrew Gunling and my buddy Phil Mund, who's his son, Bodies, Marco's best friend. These are two. Two of the nicest people on the face of the planet. Honestly, you would never guess they were Eagle fans.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, I have so many people like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A Cowboy fan. Ray Santiago is a good cowboy fan. My brother, Fraud.

[Alan Hahn]

Complete fraud, but great guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah. Oh, by the way, I should mention this. They bring it up. Dave Legrecke live in studio tomorrow.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Harry has a big announcement.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's Dave. My brother's got a big announcement tomorrow.

[Alan Hahn]

Tomorrow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's doing a lot of press tomorrow because of this announcement, and he is gonna. And one of his stops is gonna be here.

[Alan Hahn]

Right here on our show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Early in the show, in studio. You're good with that, right? I kind of just took it upon myself to kind of just tell everybody that's coming and not ask.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that wrong?

[Alan Hahn]

I'm gonna step out here on a limb for. And say, for a couple of reasons, I'm good with this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. I think you would be.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that. You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don Hahn and Rosenberg with you till 6:30. Then it's Mets baseball. Don't forget the NBA draft is on 1050 starting at 7:30 and Alan Hans hosting that with PJ Carlissimo and Seth Greenberg. So that's why Allen is off today. 1-800-919-3776. David in Woodmere has got a good one for ownage about the list. What do you got, David?

[Caller]

So I was thinking about maybe the Angels against the Yankees in the early 2000s.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I like that a lot because.

[Caller]

The Yankees and that was when the Yankees were, you know, obviously still not, not quite a dynasty anymore, but still when, you know, making the playoffs every year, winning the al and those angel teams seem to always play the Yankees tough. I think they even, I think even in those years they played over.500 in the regular season. And I know that they won the two playoff series in 02 and 05.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's right. And that's when the Yankees weren't losing a lot of series. You're right. That was at the end of their dynasty. But still, you know, the Angels beat him in oh two, beat him on 05. And I do remember there was just a real tough time with a good Angels team, but really struggled against them. That's a good one. I love the fact that our listeners are thinking. 1-800-919-3776. How about a Little Richard of Manhattan? You're on ESPN New York. What's up Richard?

[PJ Carlissimo]

You know Don, when you were saying about the starting pitching. Oh hi Peter. When you were talking about the starting pitching not going 5, 6, 7 innings, I can't judge that. So I don't know what a starting pitcher can do or can't do. I can't judge when you take them out. But I will question this. Yesterday between the Mets and the Yankees, do you know how many pitches pitched in both games total?

[Peter Rosenberg]

How many pitches?

[Alan Hahn]

24.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was ridiculous.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Two starters now, out of those 22 relievers, guess how many went two or more innings? 22 relievers came in. Guess how many went two innings or more?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Probably none.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Zero. Correct. Here's my point. If Williams came in yesterday, nine pitches, you took them out. You're telling me he can't go 22 pitches? You know you can't. You threw in five relief pitchers at the Yankee game yesterday. Two of them were ineffective, which is pretty logical. 40% of the time, they're not going to come through. Now, I looked at all the box scores yesterday, Don, and you always say this. This is the way they do it. Now, you're correct. Every team pitches an inning. Every player. Really? Pitcher goes one inning. But why, if you have a guy. And then finally. I don't blame Lydie. Yesterday he pitched 10th and the 11th, he was scarce. Okay, but they had no recourse. Now, he had to go to the 11th, and they couldn't get one guy out, and they won the game. But he had Williams, who threw nine pitches. Don, tell me, what's the difference between throwing nine pitches or 21 pitches? Nothing. Nothing. To me, a relief pitcher minimum should go at least 20 pitches. After that, then whatever you decide is fine with me. Just like starting pitching. Starting pitching. I don't know if the guy is scarced after 5. Maybe he's gassed after 75. I can't make that call. But I do know if a reliever goes eight pitches, he can go 18 pitches the next inning. And you're shortening your. In other words, Cincinnati didn't knock out Williams yesterday. The Yankees knocked him out. They knocked out Leida, they knocked out Law. Cruz came in, he was okay in one inning. The Yankees knocked him out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the lighter.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Excuse me. I'm sorry, Weaver. I understand he's coming off an injury. He threw 2019. I'll give him that. That one inning. But you had two pitchers yesterday that could have went. A few more pitchers. And the more pitchers, in my eyes, why bring in a new pitcher when you have a pitcher already who's done well and he's only thrown a certain amount? I mean, I don't. But, Don, to your point, and you've said this, we go back and forth, and I agree with. I mean, I know what you're saying, and it's true. Everybody. I look at all the box scores, I look at what they do. You can look at them. Every relief pitcher goes one inning. So there's nothing that I'm saying about the Yankee Met games that's any different than the rest of it. But why don't they try something different? Just try it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't see. It's all. We give the same answer all the time. And Richard, thank you for the phone call. It's all about, like, slotting lefty versus lefty. They've got this all planned out before it starts. And think about it. You got guys, only a handful of pitches. Unless they're going to close out an inning, they have to face three batters. So if they didn't put that rule in place, they'd probably be using even more relievers. But I'm going to tell you why it is very, very dangerous for this sport moving forward and why baseball just sometimes can't get out of its own way when it comes to just finding a way to build momentum with a sport and be able to groom stars and how pitching has basically been ruined by the analysts. You have something, I have something thing.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want to know how the.

[Seth Greenberg]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don, Alan and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.