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- [00:02]
Don Hahn
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- [00:30]
Alan Rosenberg
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:34]
Don Hahn
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
Alan Rosenberg
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. 4:00 hour. We go with Don the Greco, I'm Alan Hahn. Peter off today. We'll get him back hopefully tomorrow, which would be great, of course, but we've got more to get you. With you at 800 now at 93776. If you're listening on 880 or on the ESP New York app, we've got you right here. Don. Let's move into the football realm because our good friend Mike Tannenbaum put out a mock draft. And I know you're probably getting nauseated by all these mock drafts, but Mike Tease is what I would do if.
- [01:16]
Don Hahn
I were the GM because he's a former general manager.
- [01:19]
Alan Rosenberg
So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he has the Giant. Like what he would do at three if he was the Giants is he would select Shador Sanders. And it's interesting what, like when, when they talked about Sanders and his potential. I've talked about him a lot, Don. What have you what have you derived from me when it comes to how I feel about Shador Sanders as a.
- [01:43]
Don Hahn
Pro that you believe is somebody that is going to excel in the national football.
- [01:48]
Alan Rosenberg
But is he going to be like a guy that blows you away or is he's an Alex Smith?
- [01:54]
Don Hahn
In my opinion, yeah, there's nothing wrong with Alex Smith. Right. Alex Smith had a really good career, played in a championship game or two. Yeah. I think you understand assessing him that you would pick him. You think he'll do well in the NFL. But I don't think you've ever said that he's like, I can't miss. He's a generational talent. But he's somebody that you think is going to be a good NFL quarterback.
- [02:17]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah, I think he's going to be very good. And in fact, when you, when you consider all the things the Giants are looking for, if I told you that they could draft a quarterback that would in time give them somebody that you'd never worry about at that position that was reliable at that position that while he's not going to blow you away. And who does this sound like?
- [02:36]
Don Hahn
Sounds like elo.
- [02:37]
Alan Rosenberg
Vegetables don't blow you away. You know, but he's just steady as they come, doesn't panic, doesn't get rattled, very comfortable in the pro life, in the NFL world. It's. It's not going to overwhelm him. Being in a big market doesn't do anything to him. It sounds a lot like who?
- [02:53]
Don Hahn
Like Eli.
- [02:54]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [02:55]
Don Hahn
Sounds a lot like Eli.
- [02:57]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah. You know, not. Not great speed, not an overwhelming arm, but damn, is he accurate and does his blood run cold?
- [03:05]
Don Hahn
Yeah. That's what you want, right? I mean, I've seen plenty of quarterbacks that blow me away athletically, but do you want them in a big spot? And I think you just described. Now, I think Eli is a different quarterback than Shador is projected out to be. But if, you know, if you tell me he's like, you know, in the lower top 10 of statistical categories, but just finds ways to win games and doesn't. Isn't bothered by the spotlight, isn't bothered by the media, isn't bothered by the big game. I think I take that every day.
- [03:37]
Alan Rosenberg
Especially if you're a franchise that has had nothing but volatility at that position. Right.
- [03:43]
Don Hahn
Nothing but.
- [03:45]
Alan Rosenberg
And so if you're trying to just get the turbulence away and just try to have something that. If. Can I get a guy that I could say might not be a top five quarterback, maybe. Maybe not even a top 10 quarterback in the league, but is he somebody that I. For 10 years, I can plug him in and I just know he's going to be there. He's not going to, you know, he's not going to be rattled. He's not going to turn it over. Like, I hate using Kirk Cousins as the comp. As the comp, which a lot of people are doing. I don't love it. I heard. Who was it today on get up that used Andy Dalton as a potential comp as well? And Dalton, don't forget. I mean, there was a time earlier in his career he was in Cincinnati. It was. They were a playoff team. You know, they had, they had some. Some good years. But, you know, he's not a great quarterback. He's not going to outperform an opponent, as in quarterback. But I just think if you are picking a quarterback right now in this draft, they almost feel like you're forced to because of what's been left with free agency. If you're if you're Joe Shane, this, this, this can't be the one that you say, I'm passing on Sanders because I don't want to deal with everything. And I'll take a guy that might not really be a top 10 pick, but I'll do it anyway and then hope it all works out. I don't think you can do that. No, I think it'd be a huge mistake.
- [05:06]
Don Hahn
But, you know, you bring up Eli and the two things that you couldn't really put a statistical value on. Well, I guess one, you could. With his ability to play every game, like, so I guess the statistic is of how many consecutive games that he played. But he was always available. And availability is something that's so important at the quarterback position. But he could throw, you know, three pick sixes. But if the team's in it in the fourth quarter, he'll put together the drive to get him in field goal range to win the game. Like he didn't get crippled by his poor play. He wasn't overwhelmed by the moment. New York did not chew him up and spit him out. Like, that's, that's, that's important to me. There's plenty of guys that'll throw for 4,500 yards and 40 touchdowns and, you know, six interceptions. But the big. But the moment that the spotlight gets bright, you know, they don't come through and they don't win or they take the bad game with them and then it becomes two or three bad games in a row. So I think those are the things that you're looking for, especially in New York, especially the scrutiny that that position holds in New York for, for both these teams. You know, the guy that's the next quarterback for the Giants is compared to Eli now, that's five minutes ago compared to the jets and Joe Namath. But still, we're talking about. It's been a decade. The Giants searching for that quarterback, haven't been able to find him. And a certain standard was held. This guy won two Super Bowl MVPs. This guy, you know, got us rings, gave us credibility. Can you do that? We're not asking. I don't care how many Pro Bowls you go to, I don't care how many awards you win, just to try to get us back to the promised land. So that's easier said than done. But it's also something that goes beyond, you know, what's his 40 speed and how far he throws the football or, you know what I mean, like, or how high he jumps in the combine.
- [06:51]
Alan Rosenberg
The Cam Ward stuff and some of the other guys that you're seeing. And everybody, it's this time of year, everybody has to get caught up in all the measurables and all. It's like the Instagram workouts, right where you want to be visually impressed. So it makes you feel better rather than look at somebody like Shador Sanders, who is not a impressive physical specimen who is not going to run blazing speeds, that he's not a track star. But I also have seen him play in college. First of all, he comes from a pedigree of success. His. His father was an unbelievable, legendary athletic talent. So the kid grew up in the, in the world of pro sports, around celebrities. He's not overwhelmed by this stuff. He's not impressed by it. It doesn't make him get excited. Like, this is just, yeah, this is the world I'm used to. So the big market thing, the media pressure thing, none of that's going to bother him. And then on top of it, if you watched him in college, the guy's offensive line, his first year Colorado guy was running for his life. Did you ever hear him once complain? Did you ever see him once, like, get upset? Did you ever see him once get rattled? Or did he just get up every single time and take the next snap and let's go? Like it's. That's the kind of thing if you're a Giants fan. If you don't know what you're looking for, Don, that's what you're looking for.
- [08:12]
Don Hahn
I need intangibles more than anything else because you can look at the current quarterbacks and obviously Mahomes blows you away statistically. And with the rings, Joe Burrow blows you away statistically. You can go out there and throw 40 touchdown passes next year. You wouldn't blink, right? That guy's got some amazing ability. Allen, with his legs and his arm, blow you away. Then there's Jalen hurts. He's never thrown for 4,000 yards. He's never thrown more than 25 touchdown passes.
- [08:40]
Alan Rosenberg
That's a great point.
- [08:40]
Don Hahn
And he's been to two Super Bowls and he's won one. So who are you taking? Right, listen, I'm not going to tell you that he's better than Joe Burrow. I'd rather have Jalen hurts than Joe Burrow or Josh Allen and circumstances obviously surrounded. He's got a hell of a team there in Philadelphia. Right. But if you just looked at the stats and didn't know anything, where he played or what the record was, you would. Jalen Hertz would be very far down on your list of quarterbacks that you would draft, but yet I think Philadelphia is very happy to have him as their quarterback, and I think a lot of other teams would too. So those are the intangibles. But I'm looking for, I want to see high completion percentage because then that tells me that I'm moving the ball downfield. Tell me that he recovers well from injuries or does not get hurt and tell me that the moment, the market will not overwhelm him. I mean, those, those are three things that I think are exceptionally important and hopefully general managers pay attention to that more than all the things they see in the combine or what the Wonderlic test tells them.
- [09:40]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah, let me, by the way, like, let, I, I. Everything you're saying is exactly how I feel. And I, I feel like not enough people hear this. It's just simply like, get a guy that is going to calm everything down and stop worrying about all the other stuff and what it looks like. Because in the end, like, what it looks like is you can't. Does this make sense, Don? What it looks like you can't see. Do you know what I mean by that?
- [10:06]
Don Hahn
Oh, yeah, it's the end.
- [10:07]
Alan Rosenberg
What it looks like, you can't see it. So this is, you know, again, the kid Richardson in Indianapolis right now, right? The Colts. He comes in and remember him last year on his knees throwing 70 yards. You know, Ward threw one 80 yards down the field in his workout yesterday. And it's great because they asked Hasselbeck, Tim Hasselbeck, they're like, what play is that in the NFL? He goes, there is no play. He said, that's like if you had an NBA prospect come in for his workout and he was making half court shots. You know what I mean? Like, there's no play for that. Yeah, he's got a great arm, but you're never going to do that. So what, what good is it? How do you process? How do you handle pressure? Those are the intangibles that are important. Now, he has been connected to the Giants, whether or not, you know, the Giants want to talk about it. And I think Shane might be playing Lil Possum here, and I'm okay with it, but Deion Sanders is going to say things, and I know that's the other thing that a lot of people brought up, right, is the Dion factor that the Giants want to deal with when things don't go. I think you might have said this too. You have a bad game where the offensive line's not protecting him. Is Deion Sanders, all the way in Colorado going to start criticizing the Giants? He has been speaking up. He recently shot down the notion that he has said or was overheard saying, we're only going to play for the Giants. He said that's a lie. And that, that. But there was the cleats story. And I've been wondering about this cleats story for the longest time because you know that that's, that that's a pretty serious situation. Yeah, he had cleats. Shador did before the bowl game that they played and they said he was wearing Giants cleats in the game. And I didn't see this, but back in January, apparently Dion was on with Tamron hall, you know, the midday show on abc.
- [11:52]
Don Hahn
Right.
- [11:52]
Alan Rosenberg
And he said that Shedor has Giants cleats. He didn't wear them in the game. He wore Christmas cleats in the game. But he has cleats for the Titans. He has cleats for the Raiders. Like he has cleats for several teams. It's just part of like knowing, you know, there's going to be a bunch of teams that you're interested in. And he had them, he didn't wear them in the game. And he's not necessarily trying to put out there, I'll only play for the Giants. But what I do like is that he does at least have Giants cleats because if he didn't, I'd probably be more concerned.
- [12:24]
Don Hahn
Right, exactly.
- [12:24]
Alan Rosenberg
If he had Raiders cleats, if he had other, you know, because look, let's be honest. Nobody wants to play for the Giants. Nobody, nobody wants to be quarterback of the Giants. Aaron Rodgers certainly isn't jumping at the opportunity. Right. Russell Wilson's not jumping at the opportunity. So, you know, if you look at it, and here's a guy that might want this, this just feels to me like the right thing for the Giants to do. And I'm just curious if they're all in or if they're just staying quiet about it because they know they aren't getting Ward. You saw the quote from, from Joe Shane that he said that it's what it's, it's, it's like out of their hands.
- [13:03]
Don Hahn
Right.
- [13:04]
Alan Rosenberg
They can't control the draft. They know he's going to Tennessee. Tennessee's having another workout. They're bringing, they're doing an individual now workout with Ward. They're in love with Full Bloom. So how, how should the Giants play this? Don?
- [13:16]
Don Hahn
I, I just don't know how they feel about Sanders. But if they like Sanders, I don't know what you do. You can't move up. They tried to. Apparently they tried to do that and hasn't worked. So you just, I guess you cross your fingers and toes. You hope that Sanders is there. If you like him. I don't know what else to do. Cleveland, I don't think, is going to pass on the quarterback, are they? You have to have the conversation, I guess, with them. If Ward's going to Tennessee, then Cleveland stands in the way.
- [13:45]
Alan Rosenberg
Have a conversation with him going to the Browns. You don't want him going to the Browns. And that's the other thing, is everybody's saying that he's. That Dion won't let him go to the Browns. And that's another thing Deion said. That's a lie. He said, I've never said anything like that. If he goes to the Browns, then I think if you're the Giant now, you're devastated now you don't know what to do at three. Now you got to take the best player available and hope you can get a veteran and kick the can down the road to get your. Your future quarterback in a future draft. But he ain't going to be in this draft, in my opinion.
- [14:18]
Don Hahn
I've always said, if you love the quarterback, do whatever you can to get him. That's why I always respected a course he, you know, he didn't give up nothing to get Eli. You know, Sean Merriman was in that deal basically because that's who San Diego ended up taking with that pick. They gave up a lot of draft capital, but it didn't matter. They got their forever quarterback. So you pay the price. It's your job. So don't let anything stand in your way. You call Cleveland, say, what's it going to take? I want him. But if you don't feel that way about him, then you don't give up the farm. I don't know how they feel about him. We don't know if he's going to be there. The fact that they kicked the tires on Stafford makes me believe they're not interested in that way with Sanders. They might like him, but they were willing to go with Stafford, pay him $50 million over the next two years. Allen, that they were not going to draft Shador Sanders at three if they got Stafford.
- [15:07]
Alan Rosenberg
Right.
- [15:07]
Don Hahn
So now you're going to pivot from giving $100 million to a quarterback over the next two years ago. Oh, okay. We didn't get him. So I get it. Let's let's go all of a sudden be all in on this quarterback we had no interest in five minutes ago. That doesn't make sense to me.
- [15:21]
Alan Rosenberg
But wait, Don. But if you had. See, but you're only as loyal as your options. And while the great thing would be to draft that quarterback at three and you know, when the, when the Matthew Stafford stuff was going on, there was still the possibility of Tennessee not going in the direction of a quarterback they have fallen in love with. Ward. Okay, so you could have still said we're going to get Stafford and we can still draft the quarterback or we're getting Stafford and we're going to stay in it like nobody knew what was going on. It was way too early. But when Stafford, when Stafford becomes potentially available, don't you have to. If you're the Giants do that. Don't you have to because of where he is? Because he's his, his ability to, to take your franchise from the depths of the, of the NFL and make you competitive. So you look into that at $50 million. Your plan B is not really a plan B. Stafford to me was the swing that you never really expected. And if it happens, great. But I'm not expecting it. That's what I think. Stafford was the other stuff to me, the, the Rogers stuff. I never, I never understood it. This feels more like a thing that if you're Joe Shane, this is how you are able to continue your career in New York.
- [16:39]
Don Hahn
Right. But you could.
- [16:40]
Alan Rosenberg
Do you get a guy that you think can play.
- [16:41]
Don Hahn
But Rod, see if you were telling me I can get Stafford for a year, well then that, then you could. Well no, no. The reason I say a year is because then I can draft my quarterback and then transition. Stafford saves my job in 2025 and then I'm good and I'll probably sign an extension and then I'll be able to usher in the new quarterback in Sanders in 26 and then you know, because he's trying to save his job and think about the future at the same time. Right. Which is not. Which a luxury nobody wants and nobody can afford by Rogers allows you to do that or Wilson allows you to do that. I could be competitive in 2025 and I know that in 26 I'm moving on. I'm probably not signing a multi year contract and it's not going to be big money if I do where I can eat the second year and transition to the young quarterback. You're not doing that with Stafford at $50 million a year for two years. You're hoping he plays a third year and you're not. You're not going to have the quarterback Rod on the bench. So they were not drafting a quarterback. If Stafford was coming, at least a quarterback that was going to play anytime soon, they might have taken a quarterback later on in the draft. They could sit there for a couple of years, but not.
- [17:47]
Alan Rosenberg
What can you say, what can you control? You can't control the draft. That's what Shane said. I had to find the quote. We're at the mercy of the draft because you don't have the number one pick. You're not in control. So you don't know. What can you control? Free agency or a trade? If I know I can get a guy, I can get him, I get him. Because I don't know what's going to be there at three. And how about this? The Browns are not just like, well, we'll just take the second quarterback. So if they take Ward, we'll take Shador. They're being smart, which is whatever you're supposed to do. You bring in every quarterback possible. So the Shuck kid from Tyler, Shuck from Louisville, they're bringing him in. Of course they are, because he's the hot name. Now they probably want to make sure. But if you're the Giants, you could be at three left with the leftovers. The third or fourth best quarterback. Remember that happened last year? The two, the two quarterbacks that they wanted, they weren't gonna be able to get. They knew Caleb Williams wouldn't be there, that was going number one. But Daniels, they could have. They. They loved him. He wasn't going to be there. And may. They loved him. He wasn't going to be there. So did they go with the fourth best guy in McCarthy who they spent a lot of time with and they personally liked? No. So the same thing could happen here. That's what makes this to me so.
- [19:01]
Don Hahn
I know, it is, it is. It is fascinating, but it's just two completely different worlds of Drew, of Matthew Stafford as my quarterback and then having Shador Sanders as your quarterback with a mentor like Rogers or Wilson or Flacco or who whatever be the bridge to that guy. Those are two completely different worlds. So. And I understand where you're like, hey, listen, I got to live in the world of nothing. I can give. I can, I can offer Stafford money. He's my quarterback for the next couple of years. At least. That's a reality. That's real. A quarterback at three is not real because we don't know what Cleveland's going to do but you got to be on the phone with Cleveland and you got to. If you love the quarterback and only if you love the quarterback, you just like listen, we're not leaving this room without a deal. Deal. Because I don't know how Cleveland feels about Sanders. I don't know how the Giants feel about Sanders. That's the other thing too. I don't know.
- [19:47]
Alan Rosenberg
I think that's the right thing though. I don't want to know. I think it's. I think Joe Shane has to do this. He has to show up at Wards pro day even though he knows there's no chance of getting him. You're showing face. That's all you're doing there. But like honestly why was he there? You know you're not getting it.
- [20:02]
Don Hahn
He's there. You have to, you know for. You got to be there because you never know. You absolutely never. You never know. But the reason I think Rogers and Wilson makes more sense like Stafford never made sense to me because all right, yeah, you want to win games and I think it's important to win games but that's a huge investment to do what? You make the playoffs, get bounced in the first round like Rogers makes sense Aaron, save my job. But I'll. And if I don't draft the quarterback, hey, maybe I can have Aaron Rodgers for a couple of years and be competitive and if Sanders is there at 3, I could still draft him and, and then have Rogers just be the bridge quarterback. You can do both with Rogers or Wilson. I didn't think you could do both with Stafford. That's why Stafford's really throwing me off, Alan. Because I understand that 3 is not guaranteed.
- [20:48]
Alan Rosenberg
I think it's a swing but I think it's a swing.
- [20:51]
Don Hahn
Well it's telling you man. But that's what make. That's why you lose confidence in the Giants because you keep swinging. And those are what. That's what happens when people don't have a plan like they don't. They've got to be ready for everything because they have no idea what's going to happen and it's, it's a scary, scary place to be. It really is. I just hope they don't take a quarterback for the sake of taking a quarterback. They've got to know how they feel about these two guys.
- [21:15]
Alan Rosenberg
They showed you last year they weren't going to do that by passing on McCarthy. They showed me they weren't going to do that and. But I'll say go ahead.
- [21:24]
Don Hahn
No, just say read the tea leaves because people believe that if JJ McCarthy was in this draft, he'd be better than both Ward and Sanders. So if the giants didn't love McCarthy, why do I believe they love Sanders?
- [21:35]
Alan Rosenberg
That's an excellent point.
- [21:36]
Don Hahn
Unless that's all BS too. Like, I get I, well, that now I love this conversation and I hate it at the same time because I do feel like I'm completely blind on it because I. It's all based off of mock drafts that are completely bs And I don't mean that in a negative way. Like, nobody really knows these guys do the homework on the players. That's why I like Mike Tannenbaum's angle because he's an. He's a former NFL general manager, so he's going to be thinking like those guys. I don't need a college football expert to tell me how good these guys are. I need somebody who's going to think like a general manager to know how these guys are going to play in the pros. So you got two different things here. You're ranking the players who's best to worst. But that doesn't necessarily mean who is going to take them. Just because the best player in the draft does not necessarily mean he is going to the bet to the worst team because that won't be the case because Ward's not the best player in the draft, but he's likely going to go to Tennessee at 1. So I don't know what to believe. I don't know what's a smokescreen. I don't know what's a reach. I don't know what's fact, I don't know what's fiction. But I do know one thing. The draft is going to be very highly rated because we're going to go into this draft with so much unknown. It is going to be absolutely compelling to see how all these dominoes fall.
- [22:54]
Alan Rosenberg
Can you, like, think about this for a minute? How is Joe Shane sleeping at night? Like, this is his career. Like, right, this, this is his job on the line. This is like, this is his job on the line. This decision, this choice, whatever it is. And you don't know what's going on because the story changes a lot. You think you have a grasp of it, but you're not sure. You've got to keep checking in on other options because, wait, this guy's flying. I've ever talked about this guy. What's he about? We got to do more work on him. And, and all along, if there's that guy, no matter what that you want and you know, I can't get him. And then how about this? There's always. Imagine the Cleveland Browns trading with the Raiders, the Raiders knowing I got to jump over the Giants to get the guy I want.
- [23:51]
Don Hahn
It's like.
- [23:51]
Alan Rosenberg
It's crazy, but there's so much that you have to. How does he possibly sleep right now?
- [23:56]
Don Hahn
I don't know how any of them sleep, because here you have ran Carthon, who's got the first overall pick in the draft. And listen, I don't know enough about Tennessee to know if his job is on the line or not. But I will tell you, I will tell you what. If he screws this pick up, he's done. This will be the pick that determines how long he keeps it.
- [24:12]
Alan Rosenberg
It'll set him back, right?
- [24:13]
Don Hahn
Yeah, well, set it back. I mean, look at Joe Douglas, right? Joe Douglas, he was able in one draft to get the offensive and defensive rookies of the year. He lost his job because he screwed up the Zach Wilson pick, right? So that haunts you. So if war does not work out, Carthon will be out of a job.
- [24:30]
Alan Rosenberg
Book it.
- [24:30]
Don Hahn
It may not be tomorrow because we got to find out how bad he is. But that pick will determine his future. So every general manager that has a pick in the top five, this pick will determine their future. Just a matter of when. So I don't know how. I don't know if I could sleep with any of these guys. But you're right. Shane's in that boat. It'll be immediate. This time next year, he could be out of a job based on this.
- [24:53]
Alan Rosenberg
Decision and the franchise could be set back.
- [24:57]
Don Hahn
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- [25:45]
Alan Rosenberg
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- [25:46]
Don Hahn
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- [25:54]
Alan Rosenberg
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- [26:28]
Don Hahn
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [26:29]
Alan Rosenberg
Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Start with Don the Greco. I'm Allen Hunt. 800 now 19376 is the number for you Islander fans. You're going to want to pay attention here in a few moments because we have got to Don and I have been talking about this since last night. What happened at the end of that game last night. It's, it's just maddening. But I wanted to get a couple of Giants calls in first just based off of what we were just talking about. And then we can just keep it moving from there. So let's take Joe in Wake Forest. Joe, what's happening?
- [27:08]
Don Hahn
Hope you're all doing well. I just, I couldn't agree with you guys more about literally every single take you've had with Shador and just this draft in general. This might be for the QBs. This might be the most unknown draft, like ever. I mean, you have people who are talking about Jackson Dark going in the top five and then you have people taking him in the top three rounds and now the kid from Louisville is coming up, the Kyle McCord kid from Syracuse, Will Howard people are falling in love with. It's, it's insane. I think as far as Shador goes, I think he has all the talent there. Obviously the field tapes, you know, pro days and combine, things like that. There are dime a dozen. Doesn't really matter. Otherwise Zach Wilson would be the best quarterback in the NFL right now with that throw.
- [27:56]
Alan Rosenberg
Exactly.
- [27:58]
Don Hahn
Exactly. So it's, it just kills me. But I think Shador has the pedigree and the, his determination that his father had. And you know, I really hope that wherever he goes, I hope he ends up well. It would be great if he went to the Giants.
- [28:12]
Alan Rosenberg
He could definitely turn some things around.
- [28:14]
Don Hahn
But yeah, I think Joe, Shane has a lot of difficult decisions ahead of him.
- [28:19]
Alan Rosenberg
It's not going to be easy. Thank you, Joe. Let's take Daniel in Florida. Go ahead, Daniel. Hello, Daniel. What's happening? Hey, thank you for taking my call.
- [28:32]
Don Hahn
And I'm calling to represent the New.
- [28:35]
Alan Rosenberg
York Giants fan base.
- [28:36]
Don Hahn
I really think that Jameis Winston signing is the best thing at the time.
- [28:46]
Alan Rosenberg
Current circumstance, circumstances.
- [28:50]
Don Hahn
So I know he's volatile, but at least he's exciting.
- [28:54]
Alan Rosenberg
Football to watch, because for the past.
- [28:57]
Don Hahn
Few years, as other Giants fans, it's. When I watch the Giants offense, it's not football compared to other teams offensively. Now, with the number three pick, I think Joel Shane, and.
- [29:17]
Alan Rosenberg
They will.
- [29:17]
Don Hahn
They're gonna just see what the board.
- [29:22]
Alan Rosenberg
Has, the best player or Sanders.
- [29:26]
Don Hahn
But here, here's.
- [29:27]
Alan Rosenberg
Thank you, Daniel.
- [29:28]
Don Hahn
You can't make something into nothing. Just because you're drafted third overall does not magically make you into a franchise quarterback.
- [29:35]
Alan Rosenberg
By the way, I didn't understand that call.
- [29:37]
Don Hahn
I didn't understand it. I'd rather just move on.
- [29:39]
Alan Rosenberg
It's just like, like, like it's the best thing to happen.
- [29:43]
Don Hahn
He wants to be entertained, and then the Giants have not been entertained. I don't care. I want to win games.
- [29:47]
Alan Rosenberg
Jameis Winston's entertaining and he's a great personality, but he's only fun to watch. If he's not your quarterback. When he's quarterback of your team, it is not fun to watch him play. That's a real thing.
- [29:58]
Don Hahn
But you know what's fun? Winning games. I don't care If I win three, nothing or 35, 32. I want to win games. Yes, the Giants have been embarrassing. Both have been true. They have been hard to watch because the offense has been brutal and they haven't won games. But I'm sorry the 1990 Giants didn't knock your socks off offensively, but you know what? They won a Super Bowl. I'd like to win. Eli was never the most attractive quarterback, the most fun quarterback to watch. But in his prime, he won games. He got it done. That's what I'm looking to do. Winning entertains me, all right? I'm not going to sit there and lose 35 to 30 and say, well, at least I was entertained by a game that we lost. Now, the draft is what it is, right? You look at the Rangers, right? They had this first overall pick, second overall pick, back to back years, the second overall pick, they went with Capo Kako, first overall pick, they went Alexei lafreniere. That dictates they should be Superstars, Guess what? They weren't. Wasn't that great of a draft, so. But the lafreniere was the consensus number one pick. It was the right pick to make. And so far he's been a nice player. But you don't take nice players first overall. But sometimes those are your only options. These quarterbacks do not move the needle, but they're going to go 1, 2 in somewhere on the draft of the two top quarterbacks taken. And whether you take Sanders at 15 or 3, he is what he is. You know, let me ask you. You can't make somebody into something or not. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
- [31:14]
Alan Rosenberg
Just. Just to make a hard left turn because you brought it up. Let's say the Rangers won that lottery and they got Jack Hughes with, with his injury history, you know, like, he does get banged up. He is kind of, you know, he is diminutive now. He's an unbelievable talent.
- [31:29]
Don Hahn
Right.
- [31:29]
Alan Rosenberg
But. But like, where would the Rangers be? You know what I mean? Like, it's obviously the cocko thing didn't work out. They moved on from him. He's in Seattle now. But like, would it. Would that have also still been sort of a, an uncertainty?
- [31:46]
Don Hahn
No.
- [31:47]
Alan Rosenberg
Because of the injuries. Like, again, this is not a year where he's banged up. But he's, he is not that big. You worry about durability with him. He's got a tons of talent, but you do worry about durability.
- [31:58]
Don Hahn
I know.
- [31:59]
Alan Rosenberg
Would they have solved, like, would this have been. Would they have been better off if they had ended up with him or would they still have some kind of issues?
- [32:07]
Don Hahn
Oh, they would have been better off because, you know, the Devils gave him a contract. I mean, he's been hurt, but I think they're happy to have him right where Kako is already on a second team. He's playing well in Seattle, but not to the level of a second overall pick. And I will tell you this. In the conference final last year, when you're struggling to score a goal, having a guy that maybe can make an individual effort to kind of break through and score, you might have been exactly what they needed. But you're right. Maybe he's not playing because he got hurt against Carolina in the second round and wasn't available to you. But the fact is talent's there.
- [32:40]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah, no, no, I'm not. You know, I just deny that he's.
- [32:42]
Don Hahn
An unbelievable talent and at some point.
- [32:44]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm just curious about situations.
- [32:45]
Don Hahn
No, it's. The reason I brought them up is because you, you're never going to know and there is a need for a quarterback. So we started that this segment by saying, I'm not looking for anybody flashy. I'm just looking for a guy that can go out there and win games and we'll see if either of these two quarterbacks can do that. But I don't think there's any certainty in any draft, but especially with these two quarterbacks. Allen I don't know if you're going to get everything that you're looking for. I don't know if this is going to be the end all, be all. It's going to be better than it's been. But do we fast forward 15 years from now and say that it ended up being the right pick? Is Tennessee going to become what the New England Patriots came with Tom Brady, or are they going to become what Jacksonville has been with the generational talent that they have in Trevor Lawrence and have won one playoff game since he's been there? Like you don't know.
- [33:37]
Alan Rosenberg
It's always a crapshoot for every Jaden Daniels story, right? Draft him second and all of a sudden you're in the NFC Championship game, right? For every one of those stories, there's five Trevor Lawrence, Baker Mayfield, Zach Wilson stories, right? Here's every Josh Allen, but you know, it's unreal.
- [33:58]
Don Hahn
But here's the dirty little secret and you know, Peter can get mad at me all he wants. Still don't know about Daniels because they thought they had their guy with RG3 and a few injuries later they didn't have the guy. Now I think Daniels is better and I think he's more durable. I think he will be a great quarterback, but one year does not make a career. Let's see how it works out. Maybe we'll fast forward 10 years from now and Caleb Williams will be the better quarterback. You know, maybe neither of them will ever win. You know, maybe both of them will turn out to be guys that just never lived up to expectations other than what they were able to accomplish in their rookie years. I don't know it's that fluid. But you know, the needed quarterback makes the Giants desperate, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do.
- [34:44]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, you mentioned hockey. Let's discuss this and then we're going to move it into the next segment and we'll take calls on it. I'm watching last night and we all know Columbus and the Islanders are playing at ubs and that's a big game and you mentioned it yesterday, it's a big two points on the table for the Islanders. They get those two points, they can find themselves leapfrogging the Rangers and tied for a playoff spot. They have been scratching and clawing down the stretch here. Now, I hate this when you have them where I think by now everybody knows they got screwed on a call. Palmeri had a beautiful tip in goal late in the game and I believe actually what was 10 seconds to go like it was that late in the game.
- [35:25]
Don Hahn
It was that late.
- [35:26]
Alan Rosenberg
Beautiful tip goal. That would have been a gigantic win. And the referee immediately waves off the goal and he cites goalie interference. First he thought it was a high stick, but that wasn't it. It was goalie interference, but he was emphatic quick to wave it off. So now I just want to, before we continue with this, I just want to say, anybody that's going to say to me, well, you had a 3, 2 lead. Don't blow the lead and you'll be fine. Like you should. Like you always bring me back to earlier in the game when you could have done this and you could have done that. That's a bunch of crap. I hate hearing that. Well, if you take care of business earlier, you wouldn't have to worry about a referee making a decision. No, that's ridiculous. The right call is the right call no matter what the circumstance of the game. That's what all we're looking for, the right call. Teams are going to always fight. Teams are going to battle when they're looking for playoff points. So the fact that Columbus tied that score because, you know, Noah Dobson can't guard anybody, that's another, that's another conversation to have. But it is just the NHL. It's competition. You're going to give up goals, it's going to happen. But if you do something, I mean, that was a spectacular tip goal. And they wave it off and their reason doesn't make sense, then we have a problem. And what happened, as you know, Don, like what they do is the call is made and then they do the review. And the review couldn't overturn the call. And I just, like that just blew my mind. So Patrick Wa, you would argue is one of the all time great goaltenders in the history of the sport.
- [37:04]
Don Hahn
Yes, probably the greatest.
- [37:06]
Alan Rosenberg
So it's, it's fair to preface it with the honors. Coach is somebody that would know if the call was right or wrong. And I do think we've, we've seen enough of him post game that if it was the right call, I think he would say, yeah, you have to let the goal, like he would do that because that's just how he's been. He is not a guy that would have argued it if he knew it was the right call. So you would think a goalie of his status in the sport would know about those types of situations and whether or not the goalie was obstructed or did not have the ability to make the save, which is what they claimed was the reason for calling it. I want you to listen to Patrick Waugh, the head coach of the Islanders, when told when asked about the replay and the review and the fact that that goal was taken away, Palmieri was out of the crease and we tipped.
- [38:02]
Don Hahn
It in and I think their goalie pushed him away at the same time. So that's how I see it. If Toronto is afraid to overturn calls made by their referee, we don't need Toronto. That's all I would want to say.
- [38:15]
Alan Rosenberg
So, Don, you have covered the league a long time. When we come back, I want to ask you what does Toronto do, which is obviously where the video review is. What do they do in this situation and why couldn't they overturn that call? That's coming up next. Your calls on this because this is an all sports conversation video review. When they don't overturn it, when everybody watching can see with their own eyes, it is obviously this. But yet the call goes the other way. We have to have a discussion about this. That's coming up next. 800-919-3776. It's Don Hodden Rosenberg 880 ESPN FanDuel.
- [38:51]
Don Hahn
Is giving all customers the chance to take a swing at $500,000 in bonus bets every day from March 27th to the 30th. This Thursday through Sunday. It's all part of the $500,000 daily home run Jackpot. All you have to do is use your jackpot profit boost on a player to homer. And if they go yard, not only will you get bigger winnings on your home run bet, but you'll also get a share of that day's $500,000 jackpot. This season on FanDuel, big wins are on deck. So just head to FanDuel.com Peter and look for the daily home run Jackpot. Make every moment more with FanDuel your home for betting home runs 21 and over physically present in New York. Opt in required must apply profit boost tokens on select market prize pool to be split equally among all eligible participants who made the correct pick. Bonus issued is Non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after seat restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com for help with the gambling problem. Call 8778-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY 467369.
- [39:48]
Alan Rosenberg
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much.
- [39:53]
Don Hahn
Please, for the love of everything good.
- [39:55]
Alan Rosenberg
In this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.
- [40:01]
Don Hahn
No judgments.
- [40:02]
Alan Rosenberg
But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [40:10]
Don Hahn
Of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate.
- [40:13]
Alan Rosenberg
First 3 months only, then full price.
- [40:14]
Don Hahn
Plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [40:16]
Alan Rosenberg
See full terms@mintmobile.com does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you.
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Don Hahn
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Alan Rosenberg
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Don Hahn
We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results.
- [40:46]
Alan Rosenberg
Terms and conditions apply. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns.
- [40:58]
Don Hahn
McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [41:04]
Alan Rosenberg
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [41:08]
Don Hahn
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [41:09]
Alan Rosenberg
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. I give you game time brought to you by Tullimar Do Irish Whiskey because when it's game time, it's Tully time. Busy night on our air. We got the Knicks and the Mavericks coverage immediately following us right here at 880 on 880 at 7 o'rangers Donnie's got a late night.
- [41:32]
Don Hahn
I'm drinking.
- [41:34]
Alan Rosenberg
How are you getting yourself ready? You gotta take a nap. Are you drinking coffee already? You're not taking a nap?
- [41:39]
Don Hahn
No, no, no.
- [41:41]
Alan Rosenberg
Rangers and kings out in LA. Coverage begins on 1050 starting at 10pm Note the start time, Donnie.
- [41:47]
Don Hahn
10Pm if I become President, I outlaw all 7:30 local time.
- [41:52]
Alan Rosenberg
Completely agree.
- [41:53]
Don Hahn
Start. Start at 7. Show me something.
- [41:55]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah, and and also west coast game should never start that late. It doesn't make any sense. Telemore do the original triple distill, triple blended, triple cast matured Irish whiskey because be sure to grab a Telemore Dew or try the new Telemore Dew. Honey, during tonight's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. I'll be listening on my ride home after tonight's game. So be on in on the coverage. I am, I am. I am now going to go to your expertise because as it was explained by the officials and this was a pool report on the. On the challenge that was upheld, no goal on the Islanders, they said that Kyle Palmeri impaired the goalie's ability to play his position in the crease prior to the goal. He bumped him. Yes. Outside the crease. He has. He skated to in front of the net to, to, you know, to screen the goalie like you do. And did they make contact? They certainly did, but that was a few seconds before the shot was even attempted and he was set and facing. And I don't think the goal was even stoppable because the tip made it almost unstoppable. And to me it's like the NFL, you know, like it's not a pass interference because the ball wasn't catchable. That goal was not saveable because of the tip. So explain to me why they couldn't overturn.
- [43:17]
Don Hahn
Let me straighten out a few things here because there's just a lot of misinformation and even from Patrick when he said outside the crease, that's irrelevant on this call if this had been a penalty because there's a difference between goaltender interference, that's a two minute minor and goaltender interference, that there's no penalty but they take the goal away. In both cases they take the goal away, but one's a penalty. That's when the crease would come into play. Running into a goaltender, all that goaltender interference, two minute minor. So the fact he was in the crease or not is irrelevant. The rule is, is that in the official's eye, he believes that the player, in this case Paul Mary, impeded the goaltender, who's Elvis Merzleekens, to make the save. They could wave it off and in his discretion in the moment, he felt like that slight bump that to me almost looked like it was initiated by Mers Leakins led to him not being able to make the save. So that's what's up for grabs here. So forget about the crease and all that. Did Palmieri impede Mers Leakins from making the save? And I think any logical person will tell you it didn't. There was slight contact, whatever contact. After Palmieri was initiated by Merzleekins, he had time to Set himself see the shot deflected by Palmieri should have stood as a goal. Now was Toronto influenced by how emphatic the goal was, waved off and didn't want to embarrass the official? I don't know. I think that's on the table, but I don't know anybody could watch that and say that that contact impeded the goaltender for making the save. Ridiculous, ridiculous call. But this unfortunately is the problem with reviewing judgment calls. We ran into this with the pass interference in the NFL is that this is not did the puck cross the line? This is not fair or foul. This is not did the ball break the plane? This is interpretive. Now there could be people, I don't understand why they would think this, but I bet you if we took phone calls, take your fandom out of it, who might say. Cuz I looked at some of the comments like spitting Chiclets that didn't have a dog in the fight like throws out the video. So I start reading what are people around the league and there were people who thought that it was goaltender interference because people see things differently. That happens. That's why it shouldn't be reviewable in the first place because then you're just leaving it to hey, the official saw it, Toronto saw it and they both saw it the same way. But a million people can look at it a million different ways. I don't get it. You don't get it. Most Islander fans don't get it, but it's a judgment call. It is so ridiculous to me that anybody thought these Mers Leakins couldn't make the save because the bump from Palmieri and I don't buy into whether they'd rather have Columbus than the Islanders in the playoffs. No, it's just he was so emphatic with it that I don't think they wanted to show up the official by changing the call. But you mentioned Burke with the play by play, right? Everybody thought it was a high stick because it didn't even seem like goaltender interference was even played in the naked eye. So when he waved it off I was thinking the same thing. Like they must have, they must be thinking it was a high stick because I didn't even think about goaltenderference until they started like showing it and like oh my God, that's what they're looking at. It was awful with the.
- [46:34]
Alan Rosenberg
Awful with the glove, with the glove hand. He pushes Palmieri ahead of him and then the tip, he's leaning right and the tip makes the puck go left and the game's Over. But that's the problem is that Markovich, I think that's his name, right? Michael Markovich is the referee.
- [46:52]
Don Hahn
He.
- [46:53]
Alan Rosenberg
He waved it off as if it was personal. Like he was waving his arms and shaking his head and. And it was like. Actually, I think it was. Palmeira even said he looked like he couldn't wait to wave it off. Like it felt weird in that moment, as if it was personal to him.
- [47:08]
Don Hahn
In his defense, I think he's waving it off because I think he's caught up in the moments, the final seconds of the game. Like this is a big call and I think he wanted to show that he was decisive. And we know we have replay that can be an insurance policy for that. So I don't mind how emphatic it was. I think you wanted it to be. He's in the building of the team that is going to be suffered. This not being a goal, it's in the final seconds of the game. So I don't mind that. But I'm just wondering, did it influence Toronto because he's leaving? No question. Zero question. It wasn't like the officials got together. It wasn't like the review came from the Columbus bench. It didn't. It's reviewable because it's in the last two minutes of the game. And it was. And it was a goal. So that's why it became reviewable all those other moments. I think if they called it a goal, Toronto probably would agreed with it.
- [47:59]
Alan Rosenberg
I hate the fact that you even suggest that they don't want to overturn it because they don't want to show off their official. He was so sure.
- [48:08]
Don Hahn
I have no dawn. Listen, would I like the Islanders to make the playoffs over the Columbus Blues? Sure. I want more local teams in the playoffs. But you know, I'm being honest, all right? I'm not coming from a Ranger perspective or a fan perspective. I'm coming from somebody that I like to analyze the game. And I watched that and I didn't see any goaltender fearance. Toronto's watching it from a million different angles. The fact that Elvis pushed him almost lends to the fact that he should have made the save because he bought himself more room. There was more time to set himself. The fact that he pushed Palmieri out of the way gave him more of a line of sight to see the deflection. Now it would have been tough to save because it was a hell of a deflection by Paul Mary. Yes, but you can't tell me the slight contact that Palmieri initiated like A second before he pushed him. It's ridiculous call ridiculous. And the other thing I wish the NHL would get right. The people that are in the building deserve to hear an explanation other than no goal.
- [49:06]
Alan Rosenberg
I agree.
- [49:07]
Don Hahn
Tell us why. Put you've got listen. It doesn't happen in real time. But those people in the building should know exactly why that goal was waved off in the sense of we believe that he was impeded by the contact.
- [49:23]
Alan Rosenberg
The statement that they made after the game for the pool report. That should have been a statement that somehow, some way, even if you give it to the PA and the PA says it, that's it just has to be. You're absolutely right. On the broadcast you hear about it. Why aren't you getting it? Yeah, I in the, in the arena I completely good money.
- [49:41]
Don Hahn
They should know what's going on. I can't take because a lot of times I'm. I'm calling a game Allen. And we don't sometimes even know why it's being reviewed. They don't tell you anything in the building. It's ridiculous.
- [49:51]
Alan Rosenberg
At least in the NBA they do that. Yeah, the NBA, when they go to review, they explain everything.
- [49:55]
Don Hahn
I agree.
- [49:55]
Alan Rosenberg
And then when it's over, they explain why the call was made the way it was. And then. And everybody moves on. Whether you like it or not, that's the call. All right, 800 now. 193776. I'd love to hear from Islander fans or just hockey fans in general or sportsmen on this because this is what happens sometimes with when it's. When it's up to the discretion of the official and they still go to review and then they stick with the official because whatever, for whatever reason, they can't overturn it. When your eyes tell you clearly, that should have been a goal. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more more of Don Allen and.
- [50:31]
Don Hahn
Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on.
- [50:34]
Alan Rosenberg
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