Hour 2: Giants QB Plans

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary Episode: Hour 2: Giants QB Plans
Release Date: February 18, 2025

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1. Introduction to Giants’ Quarterback Situation

The hosts, Don LaGreca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg, delve into the New York Giants' ongoing quarterback dilemma. With the team evaluating whether to trade for veteran Matthew Stafford or draft the promising Shadore Sanders, the conversation centers around the implications of each choice for the franchise's future.

2. Poll Results on Draft Picks

Alan Hahn introduces a pivotal poll conducted by Jordan Renan, asking whether Giants fans would trade their third overall pick and additional draft assets for the first overall pick to select a quarterback sooner.

• Poll Details:

  • Question: Would you trade the Giants' third overall pick and a 2026 third-round pick to the Titans for the first overall pick?
  • Results: 51% voted "No" while 49% voted "Yes" after over 18,000 votes.

• Notable Quote:

  • Alan Hahn [07:32]: "The poll being 50. 50. And here's the thing, to me, that's like, do you believe in the quarterbacks or not. It's the same question."

3. Analysis of Matthew Stafford vs. Shadore Sanders

The discussion shifts to analyzing the pros and cons of acquiring Matthew Stafford versus drafting Shadore Sanders.

• Matthew Stafford:

  • Pros:

    • Experienced and proven quarterback with a generational talent.
    • Likened to being the "Kurt Warner to Eli Manning" ([07:10] Don LaGreca).
    • Expected to drive expectations and secure immediate competitiveness.

  • Cons:

    • High salary demands ($50 million/year).
    • Potential cap space issues requiring the team to part ways with him after a few years.
    • Concerns about his longevity and desire to play post-Rams era ([22:35] Alan Hahn).

• Shadore Sanders:

  • Pros:

    • High accuracy and leadership qualities.
    • Comparable intangibles to Eli Manning, providing stability.
    • Seen as a "toughness personified," essential for the Giants' coaching style ([22:11] Alan Hahn).

  • Cons:

    • Average arm strength, which could limit deep throws.
    • Potential concerns about his motion and playing style ([21:36] Peter Rosenberg).
    • Public perception influenced by his father, Deion Sanders, raising questions about media pressure ([15:25] Peter Rosenberg).

• Notable Quotes:

  • Don LaGreca [08:49]: "All six quarterbacks that were taken last year would be ahead of the two that be taken here."
  • Alan Hahn [22:11]: "He’s a leader on that team. And he’s not a leader. Like I’m demonstrative and all that stuff. He’s more of like the toughness personified."

4. Deion Sanders’ Influence and Media Dynamics

The role of Deion Sanders as a highly opinionated figure and his potential impact on his son's (Shadore Sanders) career is scrutinized. The hosts discuss whether Deion's media presence could add undue pressure on Shadore or benefit him through increased visibility.

• Concerns:

  • Deion’s history of being outspoken could lead to public disputes if Shadore struggles ([16:25] Don LaGreca).
  • Potential for Deion to publicly defend or criticize team decisions, impacting Shadore's performance and the team's dynamics.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Don LaGreca [16:25]: "He’s an opinionated guy. And he is not gonna sit and twiddle his thumbs and watch."
  • Peter Rosenberg [16:09]: "Maybe he won't have his dad. That involves."

5. Leadership and Intangible Qualities

The discussion emphasizes the importance of intangible qualities in a quarterback, such as leadership, composure under pressure, and the ability to connect with teammates and coaches.

• Shadore Sanders:

  • Described as having a calm demeanor, strong leadership, and the ability to handle pressure without overreacting.
  • Compared favorably to quarterbacks like Trevor Lawrence in terms of leadership traits ([22:35] Alan Hahn).

• Matthew Stafford:

  • Known for his competitive nature and ability to perform in high-stakes situations.
  • However, concerns exist about his adaptability to different team dynamics and potential aging issues.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Alan Hahn [22:12]: "He’s a leader on that team. And he’s not a leader. Like I’m demonstrative and all that stuff."
  • Don LaGreca [22:44]: "He’s above the neck leader, mobility, great guy, but not the greatest arm accuracy."

6. Comparisons with Past Quarterbacks

The hosts draw parallels between current Giants' quarterback options and historical figures like Eli Manning and Philip Rivers to contextualize potential outcomes.

• Eli Manning vs. Philip Rivers:

  • While Philip Rivers was statistically superior, Eli Manning's intangible qualities and leadership were pivotal for the Giants' Super Bowl victories ([10:39] Don LaGreca).
  • Highlights the importance of intangible factors over pure statistics in quarterback selection.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Alan Hahn [10:02]: "I agree."
  • Don LaGreca [10:03]: "Right. So you will lose your job if you get this wrong."

7. Media and Public Perception

The influence of media narratives and fan perceptions on the Giants' quarterback decisions is a recurring theme. The potential for media to sway public opinion and place additional pressure on the quarterback choice is examined.

• Challenges:

  • Shadore Sanders' association with Deion Sanders might lead to heightened media scrutiny.
  • The legacy of Deion's outspoken nature could either support or hinder Shadore's integration into the team.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Peter Rosenberg [15:35]: "Do you think the name Sanders at this point now hurts or helps?"
  • Alan Hahn [18:27]: "Well, Deion's gonna go public if he feels his son is being wronged."

8. Potential Outcomes for the Giants

The hosts speculate on the future trajectory of the Giants based on the quarterback choice.

• Trading for Stafford:

  • Immediate boost in competitiveness.
  • Potential short-term success with long-term financial implications.

• Drafting Sanders:

  • Building for the future with a young, controllable asset.
  • Possibility of developing a franchise quarterback without massive financial constraints.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Alan Hahn [15:43]: "Everything you just described, he. Above the neck leader, mobility, great guy, but not the greatest arm accuracy."
  • Don LaGreca [10:39]: "You have to get the quarterback that you love. I never, I never faulted Gettleman for taking Daniel Jones sixth because it’s his job and he was convinced he was wrong."

9. Hosts’ Additional Conversations and Banter

Interspersed throughout the episode are light-hearted discussions about personal topics like hairlines, family responsibilities, and the NBA All-Star Game. These segments provide a glimpse into the hosts' personalities but are secondary to the main topic.

• Hairline Discussions:

  • The hosts humorously debate each other's hairlines, reflecting their camaraderie ([01:02]-[05:17]).

• NBA All-Star Game Critique:

  • Criticism of the commercialization of the NBA All-Star Game and its impact on player competitiveness ([29:30]-[32:40]).

• Notable Quotes:

  • Don LaGreca [27:02]: "We don't even know if he was alive, if he'd care."
  • Alan Hahn [31:05]: "Don't give me that."

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with the hosts reiterating the significance of the Giants' quarterback decision and its long-term impact on the team's success. They emphasize the need for conviction in either backing a veteran like Stafford or investing in a young talent like Sanders.

• Final Insights:

  • The importance of intangible qualities in determining the right quarterback choice.
  • The balancing act between immediate competitiveness and long-term franchise building.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Alan Hahn [32:40]: "It is the biggest question when it comes to drafting this player."
  • Don LaGreca [33:17]: "Don't let it get in the way of who the player is."

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Key Takeaways:

• The New York Giants face a pivotal decision between trading for an experienced quarterback, Matthew Stafford, or drafting a promising young talent, Shadore Sanders.
• Poll results among fans show a nearly even split, indicating divided opinions on the best path forward.
• Intangible qualities, such as leadership and composure, are crucial factors in the quarterback selection process.
• Deion Sanders' influence adds a layer of complexity, potentially affecting media narratives and team dynamics.
• Historical comparisons with past quarterbacks like Eli Manning underline the importance of factors beyond mere statistics.
• The choice between immediate competitiveness and long-term franchise building remains at the forefront of the discussion.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the Giants' quarterback dilemma, offering insights into the potential ramifications of each decision and highlighting the nuanced factors that influence such pivotal team decisions.

Transcript

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Don LaGreca]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. All right, hour number four with Don Lagreque and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

4:00 hour.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. It's not the fourth hour. I should say the 4:00 hour, not hour number four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's someone's fourth hour of something. Presumably.

[Alan Hahn]

It's 4:00 somewhere.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alan Hahn]

Our. It is. Well, technically it is our number four. What is the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can't get over the head of hair on Sham Charani. I got to tell you, man, Alan, even by your standards, you got to be impressed by that.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm very impressed. That's a thick head of hair. I still think Don's got him.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't think you run. No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don's got the power alleys, though.

[Don LaGreca]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, you have some power alleys.

[Don LaGreca]

Little widows.

[Alan Hahn]

What do you mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's news to you. You don't know that up here you got a little.

[Don LaGreca]

No widow's peak, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Not paying attention, are you?

[Don LaGreca]

You don't want to be paying attention. What does my head look like? A breast? What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, wait, wait. No, hold on. Look at.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry, I was a wrong. He's got. He's got a straight line because that's just the way like LeBron paid a lot of money to get a hairline like.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, I know.

[Alan Hahn]

Couldn't even come close.

[Don LaGreca]

I'm losing my hat. That's news to me.

[Alan Hahn]

It's fake.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, wait, hold on. You don't know that your hair goes back in the power alleys just a.

[Don LaGreca]

Little bit, but I. I think it always did. Maybe it did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, listen. Maybe it did.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's see that picture.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, where's the picture?

[Alan Hahn]

What did you offensive look like?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, let's see.

[Don LaGreca]

Let's go. This is Repugnon. This is after the won the cup in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right before Don had a heart attack.

[Alan Hahn]

Pro left guard Don lrea.

[Don LaGreca]

I did not have a heart attack, Don.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don graduated from a B.O. boise State, 6, 4, 3, 2, 5.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't know. Maybe you're right. May, right? I guess so.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, it's. Yeah. Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

I never noticed.

[Alan Hahn]

You're fading a little. We're all fading, though. I mean, I have the same issue.

[Don LaGreca]

I was like 27.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, he's a kid. No, I'm.

[Don LaGreca]

I'm 57 years old.

[Alan Hahn]

You've put in the time and you'll be. You've earned three. You've earned those power alleys.

[Don LaGreca]

It's right. I do have to. It's right up your brain after the shower, so I guess it's going somewhere.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, wait, you do?

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, that's what. I didn't think it was that much, though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, hold on.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll keep an eye on that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, hold on. Wait, hold on. Every time he showers or something there.

[Moose]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

There's always something you. You like to clean up. It's not a mess, but there's something there. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that means something's going.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, there's no bald people in my family, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, you're not going to end up bald. You're 57. Let me put it this way. If you end up bald, Don, you're living to be 138. Okay, you know what?

[Don LaGreca]

I. Michael would sign up for the 130.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he'd have to ask about it for sure. But, Al, what about you? You losing any in here? Because you covered up. You have a nice, like, thing here, but.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah. No, no, there's something back there. Right? It's on its way. My. Like, it's. It's getting like my dad. My dad. My dad passed in 06, so he. I never knew him beyond 61 years old. So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So young man.

[Alan Hahn]

But he was losing it then, like, a little bit. But it was the way it's going for me, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but you're in pretty good shape, too.

[Alan Hahn]

I got.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's not bad.

[Alan Hahn]

No, it's not. My mother on their side, like, they have. They have hair for days.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thick heads of hair.

[Alan Hahn]

It's just. Yeah. Thick manes. Luxurious.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tough subject. Around my house right now because Maya's losing it on top. Yeah, but it's coming out.

[Don LaGreca]

That happens.

[Alan Hahn]

You know that, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I know. That's a natural thing, but she's gonna look like Sherman Helmsley soon. It's coming out.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, my wife did that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

She's gonna have the little ring around.

[Don LaGreca]

I didn't know that's with my kids. I didn't notice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It depends. It doesn't happen often. It'll happen, but a lot of newborns, they. If they.

[Alan Hahn]

It fall.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If they're born with a head of hair, they lose the head of hair, and then it kind of comes back.

[Alan Hahn]

Stephanie did that to Zach.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What?

[Alan Hahn]

Gave him a helmet. He had a horseshoe going. I'm like, can we just buzz it? And she's like, no, he looks fine. And then we have pictures. Now we look back, we're like, oh, my God.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, they have a little baldy.

[Don LaGreca]

I had a full head of hair when I was born.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

My brother was bald. We called him Casper when he was born.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really?

[Don LaGreca]

There's pictures, like, where it's weird.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And your brother still has a good head of hair.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, he came in, but he was bald. And my mom said, because it happened to her, that. I don't know if it's a urban legend or whatever, but it's that women that have a baby that have a full head of hair, they have heartburn while they're pregnant. That was Natalie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Natalie had terrible heartburn the whole time. And the baby came out with full head air.

[Alan Hahn]

How about that?

[Don LaGreca]

But I didn't know they lost it.

[Alan Hahn]

It falls out. Yeah. It's kind of a funny moment. And then everything gets normal again. 800 now, we're not.

[Don LaGreca]

We actually. As we get older, we could become babies. We've got diapers.

[Alan Hahn]

We legitimately go back to being babies.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's scary.

[Alan Hahn]

And then they have to take care of us. But you got to figure out which kid you have. I mean, that's why you have multiple. Because there's always one that'll be there to take care.

[Don LaGreca]

I got two chances that I'll be taking care of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's why you really want to have a girl. Let's be honest.

[Alan Hahn]

You want to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You want to have at least one girl.

[Alan Hahn]

At least one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's. That's advice I've heard from other people. If you want to be taken care of in your old age and get stuck with all sons, you might be in trouble.

[Alan Hahn]

No chance. Right. But I have three, so one of them's gonna.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, you'll be all right.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's take Moose in Jamaica. Moose been hanging on a bit. What's up, Moose?

[Moose]

What's going on, fellas? How are we?

[Don LaGreca]

Good, good. How are you?

[Moose]

Chilling, chilling, chilling. So, yeah, I want to reference a couple things by Jonah Renan. I think he put out a tweet before he been filling. He's been filling in for. Yeah, yeah. So first, he tweeted, as a giant fan would you trade this third overall pick for a first next year and the third this year for the first overall pick to move up.

[Alan Hahn]

That was a great tweet. What was the result?

[Moose]

Yeah, I didn't even check. I'm not even.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was, it was about. It ended up close to 50.

[Don LaGreca]

50.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm going to check it.

[Moose]

Okay, fair enough, fair enough. And, and, and the other, the real thing I wanted to pay off is not just the tease from dpa, lots of bird about the tweet but what Jordan run on eloquently and perfectly identified the conundrum that Shane and Dable are in in terms of the trading for Matthew Stafford while also needing to draft a quarterback to save their jobs. And what he basically summarizes trading for Matthew Stafford and drafting a quarterback would basically ensure a 7 to 9 win season not go anywhere in the playoffs but but secure their job security for another contract. Now as a Giants fan I wouldn't be opposed to that necessarily drafting somebody in the second or third round. It's probably going to take a second this year and a third this year and next year to get Stafford. But we're going to need to draft the quarterback because maybe sign because Stafford wants 50 million a year. You're going to have to give him Lisa three four year deal and send them goodbye in the third year to bring in the quarterback we drafted. So that's where the situation lies.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, I guess you're hoping Matthew Stafford is the Kurt Warner to Eli Manning, right?

[Moose]

That in essence.

[Don LaGreca]

No, I wouldn't have. You want to make sure that Sanders or whoever they draft has somebody that can help them. And I don't mind the Giants being competitive. I would take a nine win season after what's happened the last couple years. Why not?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that statement first of all and thanks Moose. This is a fun topic. So let's get into it. Jordan's poll that he put up, this was the 17th. Which was what? What was the 17th? Okay, listen, when you spend four days at volleyball vortex you don't even know what day it is. Would you trade the giants number number three, a third round pick and a 2026 third round pick to the Titans for the number one overall pick. The results after over 18,000 votes was 51 to 49. No 51% said no field. Yates commented. He said in a heartbeat. I agree with him. You're out of your mind if you don't do something like that. Like that's exactly what you do if you're the Giants in this situation because.

[Don LaGreca]

You have A conviction on Sanders?

[Alan Hahn]

Absolutely. Well, how do you not?

[Don LaGreca]

And then how do you not. Has there been anybody that has spoken as highly of him as you have? I mean, people, again, they could be dead wrong. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying.

[Alan Hahn]

There are a lot of people that are high on it. There are a lot of people that believe in him.

[Don LaGreca]

But, but, but I've also heard that all six quarterbacks that were taken last year would be ahead of the two that be taken here.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, I don't buy that.

[Don LaGreca]

All right, because if he was, because.

[Alan Hahn]

Last year he was considered somebody that if he was eligible for the draft and came out for the draft, he would have been a first round pick.

[Don LaGreca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And so there's no reason to think that he couldn't. He's got the pedigree, he's got everything you need. And if you're paying attention, you know he's exactly what the Giants need.

[Don LaGreca]

But here's the problem with these polls. Like you're. You have a conviction. I don't. Doesn't sound like Peter has a conviction on either of these two quarterbacks. He's got his quarterback and a lot of pundits don't seem to have a conviction on him either. If the Giants love Sanders, then you, it's a no brainer. You do it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don LaGreca]

You have to get the quarterback that you love. I never, I never faulted Gettleman for taking Daniel Jones sixth because it's his job and he was convinced he was wrong. All right, So I don't like the fact that he was wrong, but he loved him. He took him at 6. It's his job on the line, not mine. I get to go on with my day. I might be ticked off, but I don't lose my job. These guys will lose their job. As good a general manager at building the talent for the jets as Douglas was, he lost his job because it got it wrong on the quarterback. He got it wrong on Zach Wilson and that's why he lost his job.

[Alan Hahn]

I agree.

[Don LaGreca]

All right. So you will lose your job if you get this wrong. So if Joe Shane, a guy that I can't say that I trust, has a conviction with his job on the line that Shador Sanders or Ward is the guy, then by all means you draft that guy. That's the Ernie, of course, he philosophy. Ernie gave up a lot for Eli Manning, but he was convinced Eli was the guy. And they, in the beginning it was like, oh, we lost out on Sean Merriam and we lost this. We Lost that. Who cared? At the end of the day, when you win two Super Bowls. So if they've got the conviction. I don't. You do. So it makes sense. But I can understand the poll being 50. 50. And here's the thing, to me, that's like, do you believe in the quarterbacks or not? It's the same question.

[Alan Hahn]

It is, it is. But what you just said, though, is actually brilliant because I didn't even think about this. In his own draft class, the guy he was traded for in that draft was a better quarterback than Eli Manning, was he not? Philip Rivers, he was a better quarterback.

[Don LaGreca]

Statistically, he was better.

[Alan Hahn]

He was a better quarterback.

[Don LaGreca]

But I don't. I don't know if I would want Philip Rivers over Eli Manning.

[Alan Hahn]

And why, why is that? Now that you know. See, now again, you have to also go with you know more now at the end of the story.

[Don LaGreca]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

Right. So within hindsight, you'd. You would never take Philip Rivers over Eli Manning. Why? Is it tangible or intangible?

[Don LaGreca]

No, it's intangible.

[Alan Hahn]

Exactly. And that's what I see in Shador Sanders.

[Don LaGreca]

But I will also say in defense of Philip Rivers, if he were a giant, Eli was. Was a Charger. Because let's not forget in 2007, when the Giants won the super bowl, do you know who went to the championship game in the AFC to play? The Patriots for the Chargers. And do you realize that Rivers was hurt? He was on one leg and. Lt didn't play in the game because he was hurt. Like, imagine if they were healthy and then the game went down to, like, the fourth quarter. Anthony could probably look up what the final score was. The Chargers could have very easily played the Giants in the Super Bowl. Like, how big a Super bowl would that have been? Obviously not as big as the undefeated Patriots, but the point is, is that. Would Rivers have done this in New York? It's possible. Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And instead the last right tutelage and instead the last Charger to go to the Super Bowl, Stan Humphries. But that's a good.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a good trivia question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They made it, right?

[Don LaGreca]

But, yeah, they beat Pittsburgh.

[Alan Hahn]

Did they even score three points in that game? If I remember, it was bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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Requires Google Gemini account Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy. But again, this is to me something that I understand the hesitation. But if you've got a choice, and I think it's a choice, you can use draft capital to get Matthew Stafford and lose a lot of cap space on the way and try to do an Aaron Rodgers type thing because you do have Malik neighbors, right? You'd probably have to find then in the draft some talent on the offensive side, especially offensive line because Matthew Stafford's already lived through that with a bad offensive line. We saw that story already in Detroit and at this point in his career and his age and everything else, you might lose him within a year. He might not want to play anymore because that's the game he was playing with the Rams. He's in. He's. We all know he's a generational talent. We all know Matthew Stafford's going to the hall of Fame, okay? But if you're the Giants, where you are right now, if you have a choice between giving up draft capital to get a obviously experience, obviously, you know, championship winning. I mean, again, doesn't this sound very similar? Stafford doesn't have the off the field stuff, didn't bring that with him like he'd like Rogers did. But it does feel like the same kind of thing. If the Giants trade for Stafford, the Pressure is on that they have to win now. If the Giants make a move, an aggressive one, to trade for Shadore Sanders, that's not about win now. That's about building now. Okay, you got neighbors. You got this guy. You just continue to build now, and he becomes that piece that you believe in. And if anything, you need to know about Shadore Sanders. Don't pay attention to the father. This is not that. He's a much different personality, and there's a lot of similarities to Eli Manning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I. Can I ask you a question? Do you think the name Sanders at this point now hurts or helps?

[Alan Hahn]

Great question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because I think.

[Alan Hahn]

I wonder in the draft process. I think that's a great question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think even among the fans right now.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A lot of the hesitation is not based on the play. Most of them haven't seen the play. They didn't pay that much attention. They saw a Colorado game here or there. They're worried about the noise of Deion because not only was Deion a loud player, Deion's been really loud as a coach, and they're worried about what he's going to be as a dad. But you don't want to let that get in the way of who the player is.

[Alan Hahn]

The kid's not like that, and he's not like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And maybe he won't have his dad. That involves.

[Don LaGreca]

But that's the thing, is that the difference between Sanders and Archie Manning. Archie Manning had a lot to do and obviously all to do with him not wanting his son to go to San Diego and wanting to be a Giant. But then he. He didn't. He didn't say boo the rest of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The way that we know of.

[Don LaGreca]

I mean, he didn't go public. You know, Deion's gonna go public if he feels the Sun's not being playing well, but he's gonna blame the offensive line. Like, that's the thing. Like, I don't think. I don't think teams are gonna just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Cause he has his own talk show on Tubi. You think he's the kind of guy.

[Don LaGreca]

Who might say something and it's not. He's an opinionated guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He is.

[Don LaGreca]

And he is not gonna sit and twiddle his thumbs and watch. If he feels his son being wronged, he's gonna make suggestions. He's gonna go to the media. If the Giants are struggling, he's gonna probably defend his son. And how do you defend your son? Well, you blame the offensive line or you blame the play calling or you blame the head Coach, and it's New York, so people are gonna pay attention. What's the first thing that a Jordan Ronn is gonna do when Shador is struggling as a good reporter? He's going to call Dion. Dion, what do you think? How your son's playing and then there's going to be an article. Well, you know what I think?

[Alan Hahn]

Do we think Dion, do we think Deon is that unaware of media and what happens that he's going to do that and put his son in that situation?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I hear what you're saying. I'm saying no, I'll split the difference.

[Alan Hahn]

Between the two of you, by the way, just quickly. LaVar Ball disappeared once his kids went to the NBA. We never heard from him again. Remember how loud he was?

[Don LaGreca]

Big time.

[Alan Hahn]

Couldn't shut that guy up. But once Lonzo got to the league, didn't hear a peep, nothing. Still don't. But yeah, because he knew I can't do that to them.

[Don LaGreca]

But I only knew his father from, you know, going on and every other day.

[Alan Hahn]

But he was. He was loud.

[Don LaGreca]

But I know Deion when he played, and I know Deion post career. He is a flamboyant, opinionated sob. And I mean that in the best way possible. I love entertaining.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don LaGreca]

And now his son is going to be in the NFL and he's going to sit idly by while he, his son, like every other rookie quarterback, struggles.

[Alan Hahn]

And I'm telling you, I don't see it.

[Don LaGreca]

I pay a lot of.

[Alan Hahn]

I paid a lot of attention to that story. From Jackson State on to Colorado. I've been very. I just. Bart Scott and Dion have a relationship. They know each other well.

[Don LaGreca]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

And we actually had Dion on a couple of years ago on our show. And just knowing what they're about at the foundation and understanding a lot of stuff that they do that he does publicly is for the attention that he needed to get for first Jackson State and then obviously at Colorado. There's also something that he understands about his boys, about his sons, that he knows that, like, I can't damage their brand by doing something that would be damaging. And I think he would know in New York. I can't do that.

[Don LaGreca]

All right. You might be right. But you can't say you can't see it.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, no, no, you're right. You should be able to see. The question Peter asked to me was the great question is that right now, see, being a Sanders can be helpful in your life to a certain point. And then at this point now, where scouts and GMs and owners are all considering, are we bringing that in? Well, what comes with it? Is it worth it? Is it the right thing? Everything you're saying, Don, is exactly what they're wondering, too. It is the biggest question when it comes to drafting this player. And I guarantee you a lot of the people making mock drafts aren't thinking that. Because what Peter asked is it's a great question to ask scouts and general managers.

[Don LaGreca]

Now. I think he goes in with the best of intentions.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don LaGreca]

I think Deion's going to be like, listen, I'm going to lay out. I believe in my son. I believe in the team that's going to draft him. I understand I could do a lot of damage by opening my big mouth. I'm going to lay out. But it'll be really interesting to see if it starts the way it did for Eli, where eli's got a 0.0 quarterback rating against the Ravens where it looks like he's gonna get killed. He looks like a deer in the headlights. The media's all over him. The Shane's getting bashed for drafting him. He can't handle New York is as a father, and we're all fathers now. You go in with the best of intentions and all of a sudden your son's getting bashed. Are you gonna just let it ride out or is he gonna be 10? And not to mention for me or you or Peter, nobody's calling us. Reporters aren't calling us about our kids. His phones will be ringing off the hook.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, remember, he's here with this guy. Remember, he gets a press conference three times a week as a college coach.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So no one will bring anything else.

[Don LaGreca]

It'll be interesting to see if maybe he will. Maybe he'll surprise everybody. But it'll be interesting to see if he's gonna be able to bite his lip while his son's getting destroyed by the New York media. And he's just going to be able to say, don't worry about it. He's going to be fine. I talked to him last night. He's cool. I trust what the Giants are doing. I hope you're. But I'm sure to answer Peter's question, that's the dilemma for general managers. Do I want to have that? It's already difficult to have a rookie quarterback trying to save my franchise. Do I want that element to see if.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do you really think he has a big boy NFL arm? I find his motion to be weird. And whenever I think so. Let me just say this. Whenever I see the weird Motion on a quarterback young. I don't know that they've ever changed my mind. And one day I was like, oh, no. It turns out they really can chuck it. Usually when I see sort of that weird slow high motion, I end up. They know they don't develop into the thrower that everyone thinks they're going to. I can't quite call it with him.

[Alan Hahn]

The concerns with him is not the throwing. First of all, he's one of the most accurate that you've seen. Like we've seen the last couple of drafts. He's incredibly accurate, which in the NFL is probably the most important skill, because how often do you throw downfield? 50, 60 yards, like those. Those are impressive. Like Anthony Richardson did that on his knees. Remember that? The 70 yards on his knees.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And what's the.

[Alan Hahn]

Who cares? Because if you have nothing from the neck up, what's the difference? Sanders is. Has it from the neck up. He has a slow heartbeat. He has been running for his life because his offensive lines have been bad. So we already know he can handle it. Does not flip out, does not overreact, still makes plays.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He seems very even.

[Alan Hahn]

And he's a leader on that team. And he's not a leader. Like I'm demonstrative and all that stuff. He's more of like the toughness personified. There are those things about him that check a lot of boxes that in the NFL is critical. Is he Trevor Lawrence? No. But I can tell you that Trevor Lawrence wishes he had some of the stuff that Sanders has, but that's intangible.

[Don LaGreca]

What is the arm strength.

[Alan Hahn]

He's. He's an average arm.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it doesn't. Look, I don't think he's a big.

[Alan Hahn]

Arm, but his accuracy is above that, which is better than Cam Ward.

[Don LaGreca]

Now, it was probably below average, so maybe it's not apples to apples.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Don LaGreca]

But everything you just described, he. Above the neck leader, mobility, great guy, but not the greatest arm accuracy.

[Alan Hahn]

Don't forget that accuracy critical element in the NFL.

[Don LaGreca]

You just described Chad Pennington, which is not a bad quarterback, but there were limitations in the arms.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he can run much better than that.

[Don LaGreca]

And it wasn't, you know, throwing the ball 60 yards downfield. No, it's about rolling to your right, throwing across your body, outside the hash marks. That's where the arm strength is an issue. And that's why Chad Pennington couldn't get over the hump, because he had everything else. I remember talking to Terry Bradway when I did the show with him over across from the Coliseum. He's like, don, the kid sees it. He's a Rhodes scholar. He sees things other people can't see. And it was all well and good, and I think he was able to get more out of his body than most quarterbacks because of that. But that arm limitations meant you can only go so far with him. But is it at that level?

[Alan Hahn]

Didn't that. Didn't the injuries really start Chad Pennington from becoming like he should have had a long.

[Don LaGreca]

But I remember. But I remember it being an issue. He just didn't have a big arm.

[Alan Hahn]

Understood.

[Don LaGreca]

And that limited what he was able to accomplish. But he accomplished a lot. Yeah, he wasn't the first overall pick in the draft. He was a first round pick, one of four that the jets had that year in 2000. And he had a great career. But the limitations were the arm strength.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, look, again, it's not an exact science. I'm just telling you, you know, from everything I've read, I've seen and I put a lot of time into this and I've just, I've had, again, through Bart, I've had like a closer attention to the Sanders story and him, and I just keep looking at it. I think Cam Ward is a guy that will drive Brian Dable crazy because he's not accurate, because he makes throws that just you. You slam your head into the wall like, what the hell was that? Yes, he'll also make the spectacular. But he's a guy that has lived off his talent, his physical talent. And that is something that I think in this situation here could be the worst combination with the head coach. I think with this head coach, you need a cerebral quarterback. You need somebody who understands that the checkdown is your friend and that I'm going to throw a check down and not at the guy's knees or feet, right? I'm going to throw it in a place where when he catches it, he can get yards after catch. And that's been a problem that Daniel Jones has had. He doesn't do that. He didn't do that well. And it drove Dable crazy. So while that 40 yard, 50 yard throw down sounds nice, when you can get those plays right, the more important thing is to keep moving the sticks. And this guy does that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, this episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save.

[Don LaGreca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don LaGreca]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don LaGreca]

Why? Taking care of business, Jacob?

[Alan Hahn]

Is there a purpose here?

[Don LaGreca]

There's always a purpose. You didn't hear yesterday. My idea.

[Alan Hahn]

What's the idea?

[Don LaGreca]

Is that there's a theme to every rejoin. And at the end of the show, Jacob will retweet, like what the meaning was for each rejoin.

[Alan Hahn]

See, that'd be brilliant because we can't.

[Don LaGreca]

Address it every time we come back for break. We'll never get it.

[Alan Hahn]

Makes a good. Makes good planning, though. By the end of the show. Can you tell us what the theme was today?

[Don LaGreca]

And he said he was willing to do the extra work, so what was the theme for bto? Just Robbie Bachmann. He's a Canadian drummer. Today's his birthday, so. Oh, this is deep, man. This is deep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you talk about it de.

[Alan Hahn]

But he's Canadian, so the hell with him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, that's where you're going now?

[Alan Hahn]

A93776. That's right.

[Don LaGreca]

I hope not.

[Alan Hahn]

Beat him.

[Don LaGreca]

He's not with us anymore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You sent him to hell all over a hockey game.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. Beat them again. Love it.

[Don LaGreca]

We don't even know if he was alive, if he'd care. Not everybody in Canada cares.

[Alan Hahn]

It feels like everybody does.

[Don LaGreca]

It does feel that way, but there are.

[Alan Hahn]

Did you see the. Did you see Mike Rupp going after one of the writers, Ken Campbell?

[Don LaGreca]

That was crazy.

[Alan Hahn]

Phenomenal.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, my God. Rupper.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What happened?

[Alan Hahn]

Ruff's one of my favorite people. Takes the filter off.

[Don LaGreca]

It was a lot going on.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, there was one of the Canadian writers. Just took it upon himself to make it personal. Which is stupid.

[Don LaGreca]

A lot of the Canadian writers are, you know. Who. Who's the Canadian writer? I think it was. I think he's one he was responding to.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, Ken Campbell.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, that's right. Ken Campbell's like, mission accomplished.

[Alan Hahn]

Like.

[Don LaGreca]

Like thanking the Canadian fans for booing the USA anthem, saying, mission accomplished. Like, thank you. You did your job right.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, that's silly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but remember, that doesn't have anything to do with hockey.

[Don LaGreca]

No, but you're a hockey player and.

[Alan Hahn]

You'Re using a sports moment.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But who wrote but the writer. But the writer wasn't a hockey player, was he?

[Don LaGreca]

No, he was. Covers hockey.

[Alan Hahn]

He's a guy for a long time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Got it right.

[Alan Hahn]

But Rupp saw it and called him out for it and it turned into a very interesting back and forth.

[Don LaGreca]

You don't want to. You don't want to get in his grill.

[Moose]

No.

[Don LaGreca]

Nicest guy in the world. And he's not. He wasn't a goon or. No, he's a former Penguin. Now you might be familiar with this.

[Alan Hahn]

He's over a lot of things, right?

[Don LaGreca]

He won a cup with the Devils, scored the game winning goal.

[Alan Hahn]

Islander, first round pick, Charger.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now he's a Ram.

[Don LaGreca]

Ranger too. He was one of those guys that played for all three.

[Alan Hahn]

Do you have the drop?

[Don LaGreca]

No, you got to play.

[Alan Hahn]

Did you reference each other? Everybody knows what you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Everybody knows. Don't you know he's a ramp?

[Alan Hahn]

No, he's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's all of those things.

[Don LaGreca]

The greatest. Former Raven replied the current Raven.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, like the game doesn't need him.

[Don LaGreca]

Sorry. He's a Charger.

[Alan Hahn]

Now He's a Charge.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, no, he's a Ram.

[Alan Hahn]

Every moment. A moment.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Ted, in the truck. Hey.

[Don LaGreca]

Could have any moment again.

[Moose]

Hey, guys, what's up? Hey. So I wanted to make an all star point. Also the NBA All Star game.

[Alan Hahn]

So if you left, you know, you.

[Moose]

Know, if you let me. But the Giants getting scaffold is not a bad thing. I would love to trade anything but one of our ones in the next few years.

[Don LaGreca]

Traded to a couple threes, bring them.

[Moose]

In, and then turn around and trade the third pick. Pick. Swap with the Raiders and take their pick for next year. If they could do that, I'll be a very happy camper. And as for the all star game, Allen, I can't believe that you would blame the league and not the players. These guys aren't trying. There's no competitiveness.

[Alan Hahn]

But Ted, did you hear what I said?

[Moose]

No, no, they don't care, Alex.

[Alan Hahn]

I said they don't care.

[Moose]

Where are the killers?

[Alan Hahn]

But did I say right? It's an all star game. We're not ripping hearts out. It's an awesome. No, no, Alan, but you, you missed the part when I did. You missed. We talked about that again, Ted. Were you listening to what I was saying or did you just hear that I didn't agree with your opinion, so you're mad. Listen to what I said. I heard that you said that the league. Oh boy, you're exhausting me right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He said that. He said the league made the players this way and now that's how the players are.

[Alan Hahn]

This because they're just like, what am I doing here? It just gets too much. And then the players let go of the rope. But this started years ago. It took to get to this point and it is, Jeff, definitely a generational thing, but it started with the league turning this into a four day event. That was just too much. It's over the top commercialization. It's no longer about the game. It's not about the sport.

[Moose]

Oh, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Selling.

[Alan Hahn]

Ted, nobody wants to be part of something like that.

[Moose]

Listen, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, these guys are spoiled brat.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, they get paid too much.

[Moose]

They don't care. But there's no incentive for them to try. Yeah, where's the competitive edge? Don't you want to like show. They do.

[Alan Hahn]

Their competitive edge, Ted, comes during the regular season. That's when it comes out.

[Moose]

These guys sit out every chance they get. There's no competitive edge. You wonder why. You wonder why the NBA is dying. To the fans, it may be making more money than ever before.

[Alan Hahn]

Dying to the fans, it's definitely lose. Look, I'm the first one to say it. The sport has lost a lot because of what's happened generationally. I've explained that already. Now, to say they make too much money. Again, I please remind people that out of the countless billions that the owners are making, the players get 50%. Somebody's got to make the money. What are you going to do with all that money? Somebody's got to make it. You can't just say no, wait, 300 million. No, it's too much. Don't give me that.

[Don LaGreca]

You want it to go to the.

[Alan Hahn]

Way too much money. You guys keep that money. The owners get like, you have to understand. Yes, they make too much. But the reason why, in our eyes, the quote unquote, too much. But the reason why they make all that money is because the business is booming. Because broadcast partners want to pay tons to have it on their.

[Don LaGreca]

Because they want to air the playoffs. Because I think the problem with the All Star Game is a byproduct of the NBA having a problem with their regular season.

[Alan Hahn]

There is a problem. You're right.

[Don LaGreca]

I mean, the caller basically agreed with you, but he was yelling at you for some reason. But because he wants, he wants to.

[Alan Hahn]

Blame the players and the players only. And I tried to tell you what the genesis of all this is. It is not just spoiled players. It starts with the fact that the product itself, which is All Star Weekend, was commercialized to a point where even the players are like, what am I doing here? What are we doing? And it just took away that energy that you would get. Like you got in. Whether it's the NBA cup or we just saw from four nations, they've. They can't replicate it. It's dead. It's gone. It should never be played again. Don't give me a new format. It's not gonna matter. I said all this earlier in the show. It's on the podcast. Wherever you get your podcast, you can hear it there. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Don LaGreca]

All right, let me ask you something. Ever feel like you're juggling at all, work, family responsibilities and still trying to keep your eye on the ball? Yeah. You're in Ander and National University gets the hustle. That's why they have flexible online classes and support services for folks who are balancing jobs and kids and everything in between. If you're ready to take the next step, National University can help you level up your education and score your goals. Check them out at nu Edu to learn more.