Hour 2: Harbaugh's Impact & The List

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Harbaugh's Impact & The List (July 22, 2026)

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Episode Overview

This lively hour features ESPN New York stalwarts Don La Greca and Peter Rosenberg (with Alan Hahn on vacation) discussing the swift passing of summer, the social politics of their annual charity softball game, and, most substantially, the ripple effects of John Harbaugh's arrival as Giants head coach. The second half delivers a classic “List” segment, with the crew ranking the top sports conspiracy theories of all time (and spiritedly debating some honorable mentions).

Tone: Candid, humorous, slightly irreverent, and deeply steeped in New York sports culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Where Did the Summer Go? & The Annual Sasso Softball Game (00:41–06:34)

• Alan Hahn's Vacation: Alan’s away until August, prompting laments about how quickly summer vanishes.
• Softball RSVP Drama:
  • Don describes the headache of organizing their annual August charity softball event:

    “Once you say yes, no, you don’t get any excuses. If you’re not there and you’re not dead, we’re done.” (Don, 02:23)

  • Rosenberg explains that adults overcommit in June, then realize in August they’re out of weekends.
  • Don calls out coworkers who bail last minute (“weak sauce”), and lists notables expected: Peter, Alan, Brian O’Halloran, Greg Buttle, Marty Lyons, Ken Daneyko, and a returning Ian O’Connor.
• Being Athletic as a Sports Fan:
  • Don posits, maybe provocatively, that “if you’re that unathletic that you can’t play softball, it’s almost fraudulent to be a sports fan.” (04:07)
  • Producer defends some absentees, noting one was sick (diverticulosis), sparking an extended, lighthearted medical tangent.

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2. Giants Optimism – The Harbaugh Effect (06:34–13:20)

• Positive Energy with John Harbaugh:
  • Peter pivots to football optimism, crediting Harbaugh’s personality for charging up the Giants’ “vibe” and resetting their culture:

    “Every time you hear [Harbaugh] talk, that means something… John Harbaugh is positive and fun.” (Peter, 08:26)

  • Contrasts with Brian Daboll’s “bad energy”: “When you picture Dable, you pictured sort of loafing, angry face, bad energy... not contagious vibe whatsoever.” (07:36)
  • Praises Harbaugh’s proven head-coaching experience—something the Giants have lacked—and suggests positive energy isn’t trivial in pro sports:

    “What does positive energy do for a work environment... it’s infectious. It matters.” (Peter, 11:26)

• Daboll’s Next Act:
  • Don argues that Daboll’s offensive acumen will thrive in his new role in Tennessee. Head coaching was just not the right fit.
• Skepticism about Win Projections:
  • Don cautions that a new coach doesn’t simply flip losses to wins: “What I don’t agree with, Peter, is that every game the Giants lost last year, they’re now going to win because they’ve got a coach.” (10:28)
• Realistic Hopes:
  • Don hopes for the day when “I want to complain that the Giants can’t get over the hump. I want that problem. Because right now, I root for an embarrassing football team.” (13:21)

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3. Call-In: Playing vs. Watching Sports (14:14–20:26)

• Listener John weighs in:
  • Pushes back on Don’s “sports fans should be able to play” stance, arguing many are “sports nerds” precisely because they weren’t athletes.
• Charity as an Equalizer:
  • Rosenberg and Don agree: at least for charity, egos—and anxieties—should be set aside.
• Personal Athleticism & Fandom:
  • Lively banter about which sports each host plays “badly”; Peter jokes his lowest athletic moments resemble an “inappropriate” SNL sketch, but adds:

    “I don’t have many sports where I look like a complete fool doing it.” (Peter, 17:19)

  • Don reminisces: “If as a kid I couldn’t swing a bat or throw a ball, I would lose interest in baseball. …I did feel like, at least at the age of 10… maybe one day I can do that.” (18:31)
• Hockey and Self-Teaching:
  • Don reveals he took up hockey late, despite a lack of family guidance—“Look at me now.” (20:34)

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4. The List: Top Five Sports Conspiracy Theories (22:17–46:14)

Context:

Prompted by Peter’s musings about the moon landing, Don presents his top five sports conspiracy theories (with Peter and the producers guessing along):

Don’s Top Five (with Discussion Highlights & Timestamps):

1. The Frozen Envelope – Patrick Ewing, 1985 NBA Draft ([23:49])

   • Did David Stern slip the Knicks a cold/frozen envelope to ensure they’d land Ewing?
   • Don: “To me, the number one conspiracy theory, because it hasn’t been disproven. It makes perfect sense.” (24:00)

2. Michael Jordan’s 'Retirement' – Gambling Scandal ([34:56])

   • The legend: Jordan was quietly suspended for gambling, with baseball as a cover. Peter expands:

     “The baseball thing happened when he was so popular that... the baseball thing’s a part of Space Jam!” (35:44)

3. Cal Ripken Jr.’s Streak Saved by “Fake” Power Outage ([32:21])

   • Rumor: A 1997 Orioles home game “postponed” for a power failure so Ripken’s consecutive games streak wouldn’t end.
   • Don: “There’s a conspiracy theory that his streak continued because of a made-up power failure.” (32:38)

4. Montreal Canadiens 'Measure the Stick' – 1993 Stanley Cup Final ([30:13])

   • Alleged: The Canadiens broke into the Kings’ locker room, measured sticks, and called the penalty at the crucial moment.
   • Don: “Nobody’s been able to prove this, but that’s the conspiracy theory. They broke in, measured all the sticks…” (31:54)

5. Jets Miss Out on Peyton Manning ([29:13])

   • Did Bill Parcells’ refusal to guarantee Manning as #1 in '97 persuade Peyton to stay in school…forever altering NFL history?
   • “That’s the conspiracy theory. Nobody has been able to narrow that down.” (29:47)

Honorable Mentions & Rapid-Fire Discussion:

• Ali-Liston II “Phantom Punch” ([40:43–41:50])
  • Theories abound about Liston's quick fall versus Ali.
• UNLV ’91 Loss ([43:32–44:15])
  • Suspicions regarding Vegas connections and the improbable loss.
• Hand of God (Maradona, 1986 World Cup) ([42:03–42:20])
  • Not strictly a “conspiracy,” as Maradona later admitted it, but the crew notes the missed call as monumental.
• Strahan Sacks Favre for Single-Season Record ([36:14])
  • Did Brett Favre intentionally give Strahan the record-breaking sack?
• Super Bowl III “Fix” ([37:27])
  • Bubba Smith insisted to his deathbed the game was rigged; Don explains why this “makes no sense.”
• Colin Kaepernick’s NFL Blackballing ([28:19])
  • Peter brings it up as more factual than “conspiracy.”
• Various others mentioned: “Tuck Rule,” Kings-Lakers 2002, 2013 Super Bowl Blackout, Astros buzzer controversies, and Tyson-Douglas “Was he drugged?”.
• Blind Spot: Boxing in General ([40:26])
  • Rosenberg notes: “It did not include the sport where the likelihood for conspiracy is the highest by a mile—boxing.”
    • Ali-Liston II and Tyson–Douglas receive quick breakdowns.

Memorable Exchange on Conspiracy Theories:

• Don: “First thing that needs to happen with a conspiracy theory is that… it has to be believable… There has to be a winner in the whole thing.” (25:42)
• Peter: “I've been engaged the whole time. I just couldn't think of any of these things.” (38:50)

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Memorable Quotes

• Don (about sports fandom): "If you’re that unathletic that you can’t play softball, it’s almost fraudulent to be a sports fan." (04:07)
• Peter (on Harbaugh): “Every time you hear him talk, that means something… John Harbaugh is positive and fun. That means something.” (08:26)
• Don (on the Giants’ new reality): "For the first time, they not only have a guy that’s been a head coach but has been a successful head coach… They didn’t have that with [Pat] Shurmur. The Jets didn’t have it with Gase." (11:02)
• Peter (on positive energy): "What does positive energy do for a work environment? Right… it’s infectious. It matters." (11:26)
• Don (on “The List”): “The number one conspiracy theory… because it hasn’t been disproven—it makes perfect sense.” (24:00)
• Peter (as the List ramps up): “I just feel like my brain isn’t thinking about… what conspiracy theories properly are.” (28:54)

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Timestamps of Most Important Segments

• 00:41–06:34: Softball game, summer’s brevity, sports fandom versus athleticism
• 06:34–13:20: Giants, Harbaugh optimism, sports culture and leadership
• 14:14–20:26: Listener call, debate on need to play sports to be a true fan, hosts’ sports backgrounds
• 22:17–46:14: “The List” – Top sports conspiracy theories, extended and riff-filled discussion

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Summary Takeaways

This episode blends classic sports talk with banter and self-deprecating humor, as Don and Peter cover the importance of authentic sports culture (including the soft skills of fandom—like showing up), and dig deep into the psychology of leadership in pro sports via the Giants’ head coaching change. “The List” segment is a highlight, revealing how sports legacies, myths, and what-ifs endure as much from story-sharing as from facts—never more so than in New York radio.

Not to Be Missed For:

• A sophisticated but accessible take on why a coach’s personality matters as much as their playbook.
• Some of the most persistent and colorful conspiracy theories in sports, explained with wit and skepticism.

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For further listening: fans eager for baseball talk (Yankees, Mets, pitch clock violations) should tune in to the next hour, as teased at the end.

Transcript

[Peter Rosenberg]

So good, so good, so good.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

This is the Don, Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers, 402

[Don Hahn]

in the big city. Don Hahn and Rosenberg Allen on vacation. He'll be back in August, basically. Right. He's off the rest of this week and next week.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It takes us to August.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sure.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. That sucks. What happened to the summer?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

Why?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What do you mean?

[Don Hahn]

July is almost over, man. Like, I. Listen, I'm the falls rate. You got football. Then hockey starts back up for me, and the devils are playing October 1st. I think, Anthony, right. That the. The. The Rangers are September, like, 29th vehicle.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

Yeah. They're part of the triple header, you

[Don Hahn]

know, so these are great times, but I still enjoy the summer, man. And just to know that it goes by as quick as it does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the one thing, as I've gotten older, about time going fast. Where it hits the most is the summer. You look up at the calendar and you go, how is this possible? And Dom, by the way, that's why you end up. I know it's. You know, it can be a testy subject because people will give you answers, and then they bail. But that's why you deal with what you deal with on the softball game, because you start getting late August. I think it hits people that they go. They hear about it way in advance, and they go, oh, August 21st. Yeah, I'll see you there. No problem.

[Don Hahn]

22nd. Let's not confuse people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you. August 22nd, Sasso softball game. I'm there, and then all of a sudden, they get to, like, early August, and you look at that calendar and you go, what's left? And you go, oh, my God, I got to go away. As an adult, your weekends of the summer disappear.

[Don Hahn]

Well, then say no. Well, that's. Once you say yes. No, you don't get any excuses.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm just explaining what happens. I believe. I don't. I can't. Last year. I know. Some very unfortunate things happen. I told you last year, I couldn't go.

[Don Hahn]

There are people maybe they don't even know That I no longer talk to. If I haven't spoken to you in a year and you were supposed to go to the Sasso softball and didn't. I'm not talking to you because you didn't go to the Sasso softball. Say no. Say maybe. Although I'm not a big fan of maybes. But if you say yes and you're not there and you're not dead, we're done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you're not there and you're not dead, well, you might as well.

[Don Hahn]

The person that I'm talking about, I want to call the person out because he works here. I got a yes, I got a confirmation. And then when they were not, when they were late the day of, I text, where are you? Never.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's very tough.

[Don Hahn]

So that's weak. That's weak sauce. But this year, August 22, 5 o', clock, Wag Field, Hawthorne, New Jersey, where it is every year, going on 20 years with this thing. Peter Rosenberg, Alan Hahn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Kidding me.

[Don Hahn]

Brian o', Halloran, Greg Buddle, Marty Lyons, Ken Danico. Ian o' Connor is making a return because you dream the opposite of bad guy. Like, he gets mad if he doesn't get it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not Ian, because

[Don Hahn]

I invited him and then I got a text thread and I didn't include him. And he was mad because he wanted to be a part of it. So he's gonna be a part of it again and other names are gonna be mentioned later. Some people go like, rick can't go. I'm not mad at Rick DiPietro. Dave. I don't ask Dave Rothelberg anymore because

[Peter Rosenberg]

he doesn't like to play well. He's embarrassed because he's not an athlete.

[Don Hahn]

You know what? I gotta. I don't know if I really want to die on this hill.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right?

[Don Hahn]

But if you're that unathletic that you can't play softball, it's almost fraudulent to be a sports fan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's an interesting take by you, and I don't hate it.

[Don Hahn]

Like, all right, you're not born with the talent to play, but if you just can't muster the energy to play a little bit, just a slow pitch, softball for charity. But you're living and dying with what the Giants and Mets do. You know what? Go scratch, by the way.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

We're kind of bad guys, but it's not our fault.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

You guys mentioned that Dave wasn't himself at the beach bash. Don, you were away last week when he came back. He told us the next day. Went to the hospital because he was diagnosed with diverticulosis, so he was ill. So really he was playing hurt like Rick. I'm not saying apology might be on the table for us, or we just

[Don Hahn]

say we didn't know him. Well, I will say I'm sorry. I mean, you can only go with the information that you have. And also, it's consistent with every other beach bash I've seen him at, so we didn't have a lot to go on. And I believe it's diverticulitis.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

There's two of them.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

He's got.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

No, no, there's two types. There's itis and osis. And I believe osis is the lead into diverticulitis.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What does it mean?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

Well, it can't eat seeds, as far as I know.

[Don Hahn]

If you have, like, sauce any, like, seeds, they get stuck, and it just makes you feel awful. It messes with your digestive system. So it is a pain. I know people that have had it, and when they get an attack, they're shot. Like, they're really. Like, they could function. Frank Moretti, who used to produce Rangers, and he'd have it, and if he had an attack, he wouldn't go home. But you could see he was really shot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because on the surface, when you say it's an illness and you go, what does it mean? What's the downside of it? And the worst thing is, well, you can't eat seeds. It sounds like there's worse things that could happen to you, but it just

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

inflames your stomach to the point that it's. It's impossible to. Like not impossible to function is a little strong, but it doesn't make you feel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So is it like Crohn's and Colitis Adjace?

[Don Hahn]

Yes, it is. I think it's in that family. So it's not so much you can't have seeds. Oh, you can't have seeds. But if you did have a seed, because sometimes there's seeds and things you didn't know that had seeds, and you have an attack, you're gonna feel like garbage. So I do apologize for criticizing the way he acted at the beach bash this year. Is that his excuse? Every other time he's been in any other social event.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I teased something.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, please.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm trying to balance out the fact that I've been pointing out a lot of negative potential things about the Giants, and I want to say Gary pointed out something that was an immediate positive I hadn't thought about.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He said towards the end of our conversation, he's been talking to Harbaugh and to the Giants organization, of course, as he's preparing a book and to cover the season. He talked about the general positive energy and the charging that has sort of happened, this reset and this new charge that the organization has because of John Harbaugh's energy. And I really think I've been underselling that, what that can do because. How do I say this respectfully, Don? Okay, the images that we saw, with the exception of like a couple of times when they won a big moment, like that time when he almost French kissed Jackson Dart after the game, right. But by and large, Don, when you picture Dable, you pictured sort of loafing, angry face, bad energy you did when you heard him talk. Don, think about the audio we've played from Harbaugh since he got here. The tone, the tenor, the voice. You can't even compare him to Dable. And by the way, I'm sure Dable's a lovely man in real life, but the energy that he gave through the television, through the press conferences, through watching him on the sideline was a negative, downtrodden, not fun, not contagious vibe whatsoever. We saw it in how he treated Daniel Jones, which I thought was terrible. And it sounded like Jackson Dart soured on him, maybe because of the same thing. He's just not a fun guy to be around. And so I just want to give credit where credit is due. That is, regardless of what the X's and O's look like, it's exciting for this team to have a head coach who, Don, you pointed out. Yeah. Is he a little corny? Sure. But, man, John Harbaugh is positive and fun. Every time you hear him talk, that means something.

[Don Hahn]

No, it does mean something because John Harbaugh comes in with experience as a head coach, and people need to realize that being the head coach of a team is different than being an assistant. I believe that Dable's going to do a terrific job in Tennessee because I think he's. He's a really good offensive coordinator. He's a good offensive mind. He will. He will work with, with. With the quarterbacks there in Tennessee, and he'll work with Cam Ward, make him a better quarterback. He will have success there. He just wasn't a head coach because he didn't know how to deal with people. He didn't know how to deal with the press. He didn't know how to deal with a little crisis that happened during the course of a season that really distract you from doing your job. And that is being an excellent offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator or special teams or whatever your specialty was when you took over as head coach. And some guys can't do it, but I think he's going to do a good job in Tennessee because he's not going to have to worry about anything but the offense and that's his expertise. Harbaugh, love him or hate him, had success in Baltimore. Yeah, just one super bowl, but it's a Super Bowl, a perennial playoff team. So now, you know, they've got a grown up in the room. They've got a head coach in the room that knows what he's doing. And even if we disagree how he might be handling certain things, he comes from experience and I'm sure he learned with the relationship with Lamar Jackson and maybe how not to have that happen with Dart. So that's what you got to feel good about. What I don't agree with, Peter, is that every game the Giants lost last year, they're now going to win because they've got a coach. And I think that's why people think they can win 8, 9, 10 games. All they would have won the Denver game, they would have won the Detroit game, they would have won the Dallas game. And now that gives them X amount of wins compared to last year's four. But John Harbaugh is a big deal. Maybe not to win a Super bowl, but to get the team back on the right path instead of relying on all what's this guy going to do? You know, you look at what the Giants and the jets have done recently. Oh, maybe Aaron Glenn can go from defensive coordinator to head coach. Maybe Dable can go from an offensive guy to the head coach. Maybe it could be done by by Robert Sala. You bring these guys with no experience, you're taking a guess on whether they're

[Peter Rosenberg]

going to be able to take this next step.

[Don Hahn]

Some do because you got to start somewhere. But some don't. Peter, now you don't have to worry about it. For the first time, they not only have a guy that's been a head coach but has been a successful head coach. They didn't have that with Shermer. The jets didn't have it with Gase. No, of oh yeah, he's got head coaching experience. Is it any good? But you're right, Peter. How many wins does that translate to? Who knows?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know. But here's the thing, Don. You can't do an apples to apples. What is it? How many wins does it turn into? But what does positive energy do for a work environment. Right. Like, seriously, what does it do overall for a work environment? When someone's incredibly upbeat and that's what leadership is like, it changes things a lot. Yeah, we have, like, for example, there are things we, you know, everyone loves their job. Things you don't love at your job. In. In. In John Winthrop, our program director, we have someone who. Horrible taste in music. No, taste literally has.

[Don Hahn]

Has.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How do I say this delicately? Has. Has the goods that enable pregnancy by him simply looking at someone. He's got a lot of different traits, but one thing that he has, Don, is like a generally just really positive outlook on things. He thinks things are going to go well. And I don't want to point any fingers at, you know, at Don McGregor, Michael K. For example, but if you don't have that positive approach, you might have people who see the negative in things all the time. And it really helps to have someone who goes, hey, guys, this is going to be good. This is going to be good. And it's infectious. It matters. It helps keep the morale above ground. And so, yeah, I don't know if it leads to wins. John Harbaugh obviously had certain things that didn't work the right way in Baltimore. There's a reason Lamar Jackson was no longer interested, but there's also a reason it lasted there for, what, 17 years?

[Don Hahn]

Hey, if. If the Giants were a team that just couldn't get over the hump, like Dallas, John Harbaugh might not be the right fit in Dallas because he couldn't get the Ravens over the hump. So why Dallas over the hump? But for a team that's just trying to get on the hump, they want a hump. Harbaugh is the.

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If they want a hump, if you

[Don Hahn]

want a hump, then John Harbaugh's got to be your guy. Because that's what I want. I told you, I want to complain here. Five years from now, I want to have a Sunday, a summer show with Peter and Allen, and I'm complaining that the Giants can't get over them. Peter, I'm sick and tired of losing these championship games. When are they going to finally win one of these championship games? I want that problem because then that means my team is functioning. They're going to the playoffs, they're winning playoff games. They just can't seem to get that one last win to get there. Because right now I root for an embarrassing football team that the only thing they can hang their hat on over the last Decade is a 9, 71 finish and getting absolutely embarrassed. And of all places, Philadelphia. And since then, losing, losing, losing. John Tush, where you been?

[John (Caller or Guest)]

Whoa.

[Don Hahn]

They're on ESPN New York. Talk about dropping out of nowhere. What's going on, John?

[John (Caller or Guest)]

How you doing, guys? Good talk to you again. Took a little hiatus to get used to the new show, I guess, but I got an explanation. For what? Diverticulitis and diverticulosis.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

It's little pocket. Little pockets in the intestine and stomach that. That's why you can't eat seeds and things like that because they will get caught in those pockets. And both can be very, very uncomfortable. So you got to give Dave a pass for that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. I'm sorry that he had to go

[John (Caller or Guest)]

through that with pain. Yeah. But I also disagree with you, Don. And there's another thing I'm a little bit mad at you at.

[Don Hahn]

Nice.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

I disagree with the being a sports nerd, you should not, you know, you should be able to play. I think it's the opposite. I think the sports nerd who is embarrassed to even pick up, you know, a softball bat and glove is so into the analytics and watching every move of people that can they become experts and pretty good talk show hosts about sports because they're so into it. Because they can't do it themselves.

[Don Hahn]

That. That might be the reason, John. But that would drive me crazy. I'm not asking them to go play an elite level. I can't anymore. But we're just talking about like charity softball with Fred. You wouldn't find that to be fun. Like when Dave was there, he was having his son want to get off the seat like that. To me, just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's lazy.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

I guess, you know, you're saying is for a charity event, you can drop the ego for a second. It doesn't matter how bad you are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's.

[Don Hahn]

But then John thing and welcome, man. Hopefully you like the new show.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

It's just.

[Don Hahn]

Don't you have. If you love sports that much, wouldn't you have some fun playing that sport that you love, even if it's a facsimile of that sport? Nobody is going to pretend that when we go out there for the Mark Sasso softball that we're the New York Yankees. But you got a bat, you're hitting the ball, you're running the bases.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I mean, but think about the way that he swings and throws. It's not appropriate anymore and it's not right. And you know, I don't stand for this, but I'm going to Take you way back in the day. Do you remember the now very inappropriate SNL sketch? The run, throw and catch like a girl Olympics.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I don't.

[Don Hahn]

I don't remember Dave being bad at it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, this. The throw is not good. This. These are the days when I miss yes because yes would, like, throw up a video. There was. There were some moments he does. Listen, he does some things and it looks normal, like racket sports. He's great. But then he does other sports and he looks really bad doing it. Here's the thing about me, Don, and I don't know how you feel about you.

[Don Hahn]

No, I think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you're going to say something somewhat similar, although. No, okay, I got it. I got it. You have a higher high at your best sports than I have.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't have a supreme low. But I. It's kind of like sports knowledge, too. My sports interest. I don't have many sports where I look like a complete fool doing it. Like, I can basically do everything somewhat. Although we watch me trying to kick field goals, and I have to admit, that went much worse than I would have planned. I think Dave just has certain things he absolutely cannot do. Remember, I had the competition with him in multiple sports.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he stayed alive with me longer than I would have liked. But he just has some things about him that are really bad. I mean, listen, he's not Ray Santiago bad when it comes to the softball. It's almost like when I say it, you almost feel bad, me bringing it up. It's like we're not allowed to say

[Don Hahn]

these things out loud. But Santiago did play football when he was younger. I mean, there's some athleticism there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, and I think Dave. But Dave plays good tennis.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I just. But. And he's a big tennis fan. That makes sense to me, by the way. The Yankees lose an extra innings by the final score of 5 to 3. Second game of the double header coming up a little bit later on today. Met still losing 4 2, as they now move to the seventh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love baseball.

[Don Hahn]

What I'm saying is. I'm just talking about me. I was always pretty good at sports, especially baseball. That was my sport.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Not great, but good. Good enough to play in high school. Whatever. I just don't know that if as a kid I couldn't swing a bat or throw a ball, I would lose interest in baseball. Like, if I. At a young age, I couldn't do it then I don't think I'd have fun watching other people do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, we don't know that he like couldn't do it, but as an adult, he's just, it doesn't look, but just.

[Don Hahn]

I'm saying, but if it's a, if it is you playing softball, you don't forget how to throw a ball or throw, swing a bat. You might not hit it as far as you'd like, or you might not be athletic anymore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know where my discomfort is in the, in the softball game. I've accepted the fact that I basically just ground out every single single time. I bet I just, I'm on top of the ball and it goes nowhere. What I don't love in the field

[Don Hahn]

is

[Peter Rosenberg]

dealing with pop ups at this, at this, this removed from, from playing baseball. Or if somehow one of. Because we're playing against basically ringers, if one of those guys, rather than hits a home run, like rips a ground ball, you might be like, oh, woof, here comes that. But I find generally going and throwing

[Don Hahn]

it around because we're not at all anymore. And the guys that we play against play every weekend. So they're. If we played every weekend, we'd be better than we were playing once a year. But I just, I'm, I shouldn't speak for other people. I'm just saying for me, if I couldn't do it at a young age, I probably would lose interest in watching other people do it because I did feel like, at least at the age of 10, as much of a ridiculous thought it was when I watched. I'm like, maybe one day I can do that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How can you skate?

[Don Hahn]

Okay, but I, but I can, I can shoot a puck. I can play hockey like I played floor hockey when I was younger. I played roller hockey when I was, when I was younger and I could skate. I not, not confident enough that I wouldn't maybe wipe out or whatever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can't skate backwards. Was always my, my issue. I never went far enough to learn how to skate backwards.

[Don Hahn]

But that's why I was late to hockey. Because I felt like there was nobody to show me because my dad wasn't a hockey fan. And trying to pick it up on the occasional time it was on TV made it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And yet look at you.

[Don Hahn]

Look at me now.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

You know when you're locked in, focused and fearless. Welcome to the wnba. Your vision narrows.

[Don Hahn]

You can't look away. Every assist, every stop, every logo, three

[Peter Rosenberg]

from beyond the logo, every dig you

[Don Hahn]

see, see that moment. What records are going to be broken this season? All of it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right here. Lock in. It's the WNBA on ESPN all season long.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

You just made the list, buddy.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

This is the list with Don Hahn and Rosenberg brought to you by the Allure Group.

[Don Hahn]

That's right. We thank the Allure Group for climbing aboard here on the list, which we do every Wednesday at 4:30. So Peter just threw it out. It was innocent enough. Although now all over my social media I'm seeing stories and videos about it because again were being spied on. You threw out. You asked the question on the air yesterday, was the moon landing a hoax? And you said as you get older and further removed from 1969, that you're starting to believe that it was. And all of a sudden things are, you know, that that the spacesuits boot doesn't match the print that's in on the moon. Like I'm seeing all this stuff pop up. So I want to thank you for that. Okay, so I started thinking about conspiracy theories. And what are the top five sports conspiracy theories?

[Peter Rosenberg]

The top five sports conspiracy theories.

[Don Hahn]

Now I'll give you a hint. I there are New York ones, but they're not all. It's not exclusive to the New York teams, all right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, they're not, but some are. Well, you have to. If you're not a hackadoodle, do. If you're remotely worth your weight in gold. The cold envelope has to be in there.

[Don Hahn]

The technical term for this is the frozen envelope. And this is, to me, the number one conspiracy theory, because it hasn't been disproven. It makes perfect sense. And it's New York for people that don't know the story. In 1985, the great Patrick Ewing was coming out of Georgetown and was going to be the first pick in the draft. And the Knicks were in the lottery, and the Knicks won the lottery. And the conspiracy theory says that when David Stern reached into the. I don't know, what'd you call the thing that they turn with the envelopes that he was able to reach in and the cold, frozen envelope, he'd feel which one was cold, and that would be the New York knicks and Dave DeBusscher jumping up and down because they had Patrick Ewing and they landed Patrick Ewing. Makes sense, right? Patrick Ewing. Knicks needed a big man. The Knicks hadn't won in a long time. You want to be the. Put the marquee player with the marquee team in the marquee city. So it's one of those conspiracy theories that make sense. That's number one. Again, everybody's denied it. Now. Is that a conspiracy theory, Peter, that you choose to believe or not believe?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, I wasn't here for it. Does it impact me the same way? No, I don't particularly believe it, but.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, I don't think you have to be around for it. It's just like, did you see the NBA in 1985? So it's not. It's not a huge. It's a popular sport, but it's. It's definitely behind baseball. It's behind football. And wouldn't the. Wouldn't the NBA want Patrick Ewing in New York?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know. Yes, but I don't. I still don't believe it. No. Okay, that's my take.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, I choose to believe.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's fine. I don't judge you for it because it makes sense.

[Don Hahn]

Because the first thing that needs to happen with a conspiracy theory is that you have to. It has to be believable, has to make sense. There has to be a winner in the whole thing. And to me, the NBA was the winner in that. Now, the Knicks never won with Patrick Ewing, but they certainly enjoyed having Patrick Ewing. So that's also there. All right, next you'd like to guess you got number one. That's very good. That's a good start.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How obvious are these?

[Don Hahn]

You know them all. I believe you know them all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm thinking.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, I understand.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can you give me the sport breakdown, please?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

I'm gonna be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My brain Just. Is it like. It's not like I'm gonna tell you.

[Don Hahn]

All four major sports are represented. Are represented in the final four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I know the hockey one, too.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not sure, but I know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I know many of these, if not all. Football. How about the tuck rule?

[John (Caller or Guest)]

The.

[Commercial Announcer]

The.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

The. That's a good one.

[Don Hahn]

That's a good one. I don't have it on the list, but I'm not at it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You guys know September 11th, that year is the New England Patriots. It was the beginning of.

[Don Hahn]

I am very turning everything.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I'm dynasty. I am aware.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you like it, but it's not. You didn't think about it, though. You forgot about it. When is the football one from.

[Don Hahn]

What is it, late 90s 98, I guess.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Late 90s. A late 90s football conspiracy. God, why are these, like, not coming? I mean, are people, like, screaming this out and they're. Now, Anthony, you already know it, don't you?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

Yes, I know. I know the list. We bandied about a few.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. And Jacob, is anything like jumping right into your head?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

He said, tuck rule.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yeah, I said tuck rule. But that was the one I thought about after the fact that we did the list. I have two other ones that I thought about, which was Kings, Lakers. When they said the NBA rigged that for the Lakers. The boost TV ratings. And also 2013 Super Bowl. The blackout between the Ravens and Niners.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The blackout.

[Don Hahn]

These are good ones.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Conspiracy theory. How about Colin Kaepernick blackballed from the NFL or not a conspiracy theory.

[Don Hahn]

Just true. I know that you're. You're reaching. I'm going to be honest because with this. This show used to be about this. I want to try to get back on those tracks. I'm disappointed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just, like, I guess.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

Yeah, we thought you didn't. We're going to need. Need time on this.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yeah. I think one of them you should absolutely get though. It's probably right up here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Maybe there's just all. I just feel like my brain isn't thinking about what. Okay, well, conspiracy theory is properly what

[Don Hahn]

Conspiracy theory is like.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

No, I know.

[Don Hahn]

What.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know what.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know if you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, you did so well right

[Peter Rosenberg]

out of the box.

[Don Hahn]

Bang, he got number one. Well, that's like Colin Kaepernick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

I mean that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's late 90s football.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's a consistent number five. And it's number five. So it's not a huge. It relates to a game.

[Don Hahn]

No, it relates to the draft.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It relates to the draft.

[Don Hahn]

See, the draft is where you can fangle things up, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

The conspiracy theory is, is that Peyton Manning stayed in Tennessee because the jets couldn't guarantee him he'd be the number one pick in the draft. Bill Parcells would not guarantee it. Peyton stays in Tennessee another year and then eventually gets drafted by the Colts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Bill Parcells could have guaranteed that. Peyton would have gone number one. Then he would have been a New York Jet. That's the conspiracy theory. Nobody has been able to narrow that down. After I. Gary Myers was one that said no, he talked to Bill and no, that never happened. He was never asked about, would you take him number one? But that is a conspiracy theory and I have it at five. So now you've got two examples of a conspiracy theory.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I do. Give me the hockey one. Cause I'm not going to.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the hockey one goes back to 1993.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

Break.

[Don Hahn]

It's the Stanley cup final between the Montreal Canadiens and the Los Angeles Kings. And the King. The Montreal wins game one. And then in game two, it's late in the third period and the Montreal Canadiens are down by a goal. And so all of a sudden they decide to measure Marty McSorley stick and see that it's illegal. They get a power play, Montreal scores the goal, goes to overtime, wins the game in overtime. The conspiracy theory is that the Canadiens had broke into the Los Angeles Kings dressing room because they were the home team and had access to the King's locker room and measured all the sticks. So if they were down late in the game, they could always call for a stack stick measurement and then be able to get a power play to score a goal. You. The rule is you could ask for a measurement. If you're wrong, then you are shorthanded. You don't want to take that chance, especially down by a goal. But they knew who had an illegal stick because they broke in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What was. What's the purpose of the illegal stick?

[Don Hahn]

You know, it's got. If you. They check, I guess what's the way to put it? The measurement.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The curve of the blade.

[Don Hahn]

Of the blade. So you can actually make it do like if you got like a banana curve, you can make it like crazy stuff. Do crazy stuff. And it almost becomes like a high lie.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

It's a regulation thing and.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's still just an interesting.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but. But that they. Again, nobody's been able to prove this, but that's the conspiracy theory. They broke in, measured all the sticks,

[Peter Rosenberg]

and does Baseball relate to like home run hitting?

[Don Hahn]

No, it's completely off the beaten path as well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's completely off the beaten.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it's. It really.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

It's the one we discussed, right?

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know the story and buzzer.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

No, you know the story.

[Don Hahn]

Not Altuve and buzzers. Oh, that's a good one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But this one relates to a game that wasn't played.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It relates to a game that wasn't played.

[Don Hahn]

And that's the conspiracy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why wasn't the game played?

[Don Hahn]

Power outage.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And who is this game meant to benefit the game that was not played?

[Don Hahn]

An individual that had a streak of games played.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, are you talking about CRJ?

[Don Hahn]

That's right. CRJ. Cal Ripken Jr. You and me had a streak of consecutive games and they were home.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Totally forgot about this.

[Don Hahn]

I am not, I am not going to indulge the deep reason why he didn't play because that, that feels like it's made up. But either way he couldn't go sick. Whatever. And the owner of the Baltimore Orioles, Angelos Frank Peter Angelos said, you know what? I'm not having this streak end. I'm going to say that there's a power failure and we're going to have to postpone the game so that when Cal feels better, either the next day or later in the season, the game will be played in the streak continue. There's a conspiracy theory that his streak continued because of a made up power failure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Totally forgot that happened. What year was that?

[Don Hahn]

It was late in the streak, but not really, really late. And I think it was maybe before the record obviously, so probably late 80s.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No later than that. I think probably mid 90s.

[Don Hahn]

97.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, because he didn't.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's when the streak ended.

[Peter Rosenberg]

97 was 97 or even later.

[Don Hahn]

It was definitely late 90s.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

It was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Okay.

[Don Hahn]

But we're talking about a streak that was over 2,000. So a couple seasons is. Is not a lot of games relative to how many, you know, relatively speaking. So that I got that at number three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So we have another basketball.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that's number two.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Another number two.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Big.

[Don Hahn]

That's it. So you've got a. Right now we've got Peyton 2. Not going to the Jets. Number five. 1993 Stanley Cup Final number five four. We got Cal with the bogus power failure at three. We've got the frozen envelope at one. So you're missing two. This is also one that has a part of the story I'm not comfortable talking about, but the other part is definitely talked about. Considerably talked about. You could even make the case. It should be 1. I went with it at 2. Just because Ewing was local. But it's. It's. It's big, man. It's one of the biggest conspiracy theories in sports history and involves one of the biggest players in the history of basketball.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Just think about during that time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What do I know? What time? Did he say what time?

[Don Hahn]

We never said. No, no, we never said it, but mid-90s, mid-90s basketball star.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah. Michael Jordan retired because the gambling debt is, in fact, what led to the death of his father.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that. I wasn't gonna go there, but that's

[Peter Rosenberg]

the thing that is.

[Don Hahn]

But the conspiracy. Conspiracy theory is, is that he was going to get suspended for gambling, but David Stern couldn't do it.

[John (Caller or Guest)]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

So there was a negotiation behind closed doors that, why don't you go away for a while, go play baseball, and then you come back and then it'll all kind of all be forgotten because he did not want to suspend Michael Jordan. So Michael was dabbling in baseball, and it was just kind of, well, let's work this out. Let's have you go away for a couple of years, let all this blow over, and then you come back. It kind of makes a lot of sense. It's been debunked, obviously, by the NBA and by Jordan, but it kind of makes sense. Because the baseball thing, isn't it crazy

[Peter Rosenberg]

the baseball thing happened when he was so popular that, like, the baseball thing's a part of NBA Jam? I mean, of Space Jam. Like, he's a baseball. Like, he's playing baseball?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, the end of the end of the movie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, imagine that we're making the biggest budget basketball movie for a kids movie ever. But by the way, in the movie, you're gonna end up playing baseball because you're playing baseball now.

[Don Hahn]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And to your point, yes, the really far out conspiracy theorist tied the death of his father to it as well. Yeah, but the more realistic one, that the league would just say, hey, we know you got a gambling thing here

[Don Hahn]

that's real tough with, you know, start murdering people.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

But I. And listen, it could be true. All these things could be true and most likely not true. That's why they're called conspiracy theories. Some other honorable mentions. How about Strahan breaking the sack record?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that even conspiracy?

[Don Hahn]

Did Favre take a dive or did the play blow up and he just. He tucked because he knew he was gonna get sacked anyway? Many people believe, because they were close, that Favre did Him a solid and again it didn't affect the game but he did get and a lot of people to make it even deeper they just A lot of people didn't like Gastono. Let's have Michael Strahan have it. I When you see the play it's very easy to believe.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well and then when Gastono saw Farve like two years ago, remember oh, he

[Don Hahn]

was upset two years ago. If I'm Gaston, I'm upset too. That's how my record gets blown up. You take it a dive. But if the play did blow up, that's exactly what a quarterback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was going to say an aging quarterback. What year was that? Oh, early 2000s.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I was 99.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was still on Green Bay though, right?

[Don Hahn]

Oh yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he's not that old. No, but that's the thing people do

[Don Hahn]

you get down the the other one is and he went to his grave claimings and he's not nobody Bubba Smith now you know Bubba Smith from the police academy vehicles but he also hall of Fame football player claim to the day he died that Super Bowl 3 was fixed. Now he's really the only one. But he's not nobody. He's not like some backup center who nobody ever heard of his Bubba Smith right to his grave. Jacob looked it up. He's like he did interviews like 2002, about 1983.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

2002, 2011.

[Don Hahn]

Still saying it.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And when did he die?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like good for him.

[Don Hahn]

Like around there. Like so he.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yeah, he died 2011.

[Don Hahn]

It was almost a deathbed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was his last words.

[Don Hahn]

Now the reason it makes no sense and I've been saying this for years is the merger was already done. They didn't have to do that fix the game. Plus the jets were a 14 point dog just on spec. They had no common opponents and they just disrespected the afl. So they made the Colts a heavy favorite. For all we knew, the jets were way better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Anyway, I have a place where your list has a major blind spot.

[Don Hahn]

All of a sudden now you're engaged.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've been engaged the whole time. I just couldn't think of any of these things.

[Don Hahn]

But you went from can't think of any to now. Major blind spot. What am I forgetting? Why don't you tell us when we get back?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I'm doing. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

You got to wait, Jacob. Sorry. I was looking forward to it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Priceline negotiator. It's me, the priceline negotiator. We don't need the jingle twice. What about a Third time. Stop it.

[Don Hahn]

This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights and rental cars.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Seems like you decided.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but I didn't mention that you

[Peter Rosenberg]

can save up to 60% off hotels

[Don Hahn]

in the Priceline app.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Time to be the tagline.

[Don Hahn]

Fine.

[Commercial Announcer]

No one deals more deals than. Please stop.

[Don Hahn]

Touche. Priceline.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Anthony or Jacob)]

Priceline.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Yankees already lost. We'll get into the Yankees coming up at the top of the hour. And the whole pitch clock violation and the fact that they lost another game in extra innings. Metz are playing the rubber game of a three game set against Millie Walke, which is Algonquin for the good land. But the Mets are playing right now and we lost our feed. But it's 42 in the top of the seventh inning. So once they wrap up coverage of that, we'll be on 880. But you said that my list of sports conspiracy theories had a major blind spot. Serious allegation. So go ahead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It did not include the sport where the likelihood for conspiracy is the highest by a mile.

[Don Hahn]

Would that be boxing?

[Commercial Announcer]

Football?

[Don Hahn]

That would be boxing. Boxing, yeah. There was a few that I bandied around.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Phantom punch.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ali Liston too. I think that is as high. People could argue that's one if it's in fact, you know, depending if you choose to believe it, of course. But like it changes history in so many ways.

[Don Hahn]

No, it does. We talked about that One I'm not as familiar with. I do know that clearly it showed that he missed him. He just went down. But did he just go down because he just wanted out? Like, was he paid to take a dive or was it, hey, I'm beat up here, the next one that comes close, I'm just going to go down like so I don't know. And how much you know the history, how much did him losing benefit the sport? Because there are a lot of people that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, I mean if. Well, no, it just, it helps secure the legacy of Ali going on to become the, the greatest. If he ends up losing to listen, in their second fight, was he, was he. Was he actually going to lose that fight?

[Don Hahn]

See, that's the trouble with it is like when you look at the conspiracy theory, I guess it would have made more sense if there was a threat that he was going to lose. But it's a good one. No, we did Right. Jacob, we did talk about.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yeah, that was one of the ones mentioned. Even though I thought of one probably, like, in the break, coming off the World cup, the hand of God goal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hand of God is. But I don't know if people view that. I mean.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

No, it is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, it is. Obviously it's viewed as conspiracy theory and.

[Don Hahn]

Well, listen, it's not really a conspiracy theory because didn't he admit he did it on purpose?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but like, the fact that it wasn't called.

[Don Hahn]

Everyone saw, you know, you don't see it. Things happen. Another list I wanted to do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I gotta watch Hand of God again and see how that is.

[Don Hahn]

History changed. If there was replay, like if you threw replay in some of the biggest moments in sports history, that's a good list too. How world would change. I just. I couldn't come up with five. There's a couple of good ones. I think that I might save that list for another time. But that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that.

[Don Hahn]

That doesn't. Listen, I'm surprised you didn't bring up, like, Tyson, Buster Douglas. There's. There's. I was about to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was Tyson beating the count?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, Tyson beating the count. Was Tyson drugged? There was just a lot of things. A lot of it, I think, were just excuses. He looked past Buster, like, wasn't. What was the thing where something wasn't packed?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He didn't. Well, he didn't even have, like, proper ice packs. There's, like tons of stuff. They were using gloves filled with ice water to put on his face. They were completely ill prepared for the.

[Don Hahn]

But was that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they were thinking about Holyfield, I think. Or was that was the next thing?

[Don Hahn]

Well, they were looking past Buster Douglas. Everybody was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll tell you what, though, the Hand of God is brilliant.

[Don Hahn]

What year is this?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Hand of God, I think 86. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's 40 years ago.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

What about the running rebels from 91 losing? Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

With the fix.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

That was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was a big one. That was a big one. There were people who believed it was just impossible they could have lost. And they're a team in Vegas.

[Don Hahn]

But do we have any examples of things that were called improper that would make you think that it wasn't anything other than an upset. Upset's happened, guys. I mean, it's not crazy, right? I mean, it may not have been a big upset, but when Villanova beat Georgetown, that was a huge upset.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. But it didn't have the Vegas component of it. That's the UNLV thing that you have so many. So many sharp betters.

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

There Yeah, I was going to say. And they even took a picture with like what a noted like bookkeep, like a fixer that, you know, fixes these type of games. So it didn't look good at the time.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, I know there's tons of illegal gambling, but the fact that it was in Vegas is irrelevant because you couldn't bet on. Even though betting was legal, you couldn't bet on Vegas. In Vegas.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right, but the kind of people who might still have access to those people.

[Don Hahn]

True, but they could have done that anywhere. They could have done that. The Villanova against Georgetown didn't have to be in Vegas. I know it's an upset, but look what Duke ended up becoming anyway. True, it's not quite to the level when the Patriots beat the Rams, but. But when the Patriots beat the Rams, it was considered an amazing upset. History doesn't remember it that way because the Patriots ended up going and winning five more Super Bowls and becoming a dynasty. Look what Duke ended up becoming.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But maybe it's just the fact also, Tark isn't exactly. Tark doesn't come across always as the most on the up and up.

[Don Hahn]

He's no longer with us, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

God, I miss. I miss.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did we mention him yesterday when we were doing our million names?

[Supporting Host/Producer (possibly Jacob or Gary)]

Of course we did.

[Don Hahn]

The person, him chewing on the towel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the best.

[Don Hahn]

Whatever happened to the great college basketball personalities? It's just that I've gotten older and I just don't pay attention to him as much or. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Does it hit the.

[Don Hahn]

Are they not as flamboyant and important? They still are important because especially now with guys one and done. Really all you're rooting for now is the coach.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's true, but they just seem

[Don Hahn]

to be bigger than life. Tarkanian.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's Tarkanian versus Coach K. You know,

[Don Hahn]

Coach K, Bobby Knight. I mean, listen, some of the same guys are still around. It just. They were. They were cooler when they were younger. Calipari was cooler 20 years ago, 25 years ago. Now he's just like the elder statesman. But back then, when he was younger, he does still. He's still big. He's still huge.

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the

[Podcast Host (Don Hahn or Peter Rosenberg)]

sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

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