Hour 2: HoF, Mock Draft, Rempe

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary
Episode: Hour 2: HoF, Mock Draft, Rempe
Release Date: January 22, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Platform: ESPN New York

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1. Baseball Hall of Fame Voting Controversies

The hosts delved deep into the contentious topic of Baseball Hall of Fame (HoF) voting, focusing particularly on Ichiro Suzuki’s narrowly missed unanimous selection. The discussion highlighted the frustrations surrounding the voting process and the lack of transparency among voters.

Key Points:

• Non-unanimous Voting: Ichiro Suzuki fell short of unanimous approval by a single vote, sparking debates about the criteria and motivations of the voters.
• Voter Accountability: Hosts and guests expressed frustration over anonymous voting, advocating for greater transparency.
• Historical Comparisons: Comparisons were drawn to other Hall of Famers like Derek Jeter and Ken Griffey Jr., emphasizing the inconsistency in voting standards.

Notable Quotes:

• Alan Hahn [02:46]: “...whoever didn't vote for Ichiro Suzuki in the Baseball hall of Fame election should have his or her voting rights revoked and should be placed under house arrest because clearly that person is unhinged and a clear danger to society.”
• Peter Rosenberg [04:10]: “I would like to know, just part of this whole dog and pony show is all right, well, then why don't you explain it to me why you didn't vote for him?”

2. Critique of the Hall of Fame Voting Process

The conversation shifted to a broader critique of the Hall of Fame voting system, emphasizing the limitations of having only baseball writers as voters and the need for a more inclusive committee.

Key Points:

• Limited Voter Pool: The current system restricts voting to baseball writers, excluding broadcasters and other media personalities who are integral to the sport.
• Bias and Subjectivity: Concerns were raised about personal biases affecting voters' decisions, leading to inconsistent Hall of Fame inductions.
• Potential Reforms: Suggestions included expanding the voting committee to include various media professionals to ensure a more balanced perspective.

Notable Quotes:

• Peter Rosenberg [05:47]: “I wouldn't have fans vote. No offense to fans, but they're obviously biased.”
• Alan Hahn [06:10]: “Because now electronic media has really taken over and we know now that broadcasters and everything, you have to eventually start to say to yourself just as much as the writers these days, the curators of the sport are the ones that are talking about it as well, that are calling the games that are. That are there.”

3. Caller Interaction: A Personal HoF Story

A listener named David shared a personal anecdote related to the HoF voting controversy, illustrating how personal grudges can influence voting outcomes.

Key Points:

• Personal Vendetta: David humorously suggested that the lone voter against Ichiro might have been someone he knew personally who resented his past antics.
• Respect and Resolution: The story underscored the importance of respect and understanding in sportsmanship, even when conflicts arise.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller [10:41]: “...it was a guy who either left next door to my brother or across the street because we used to hit balls out of the backyard and we'd break his windows.”
• Alan Hahn [11:14]: “Hates baseball. So we had to go get our baseball and fix his window.”

4. Mel Kuiper’s NFL Mock Draft: Giants’ Quarterback Dilemma

The podcast transitioned to discussing Mel Kuiper’s latest NFL mock draft, focusing on the New York Giants' potential quarterback selection. The debate centered around whether the Giants should commit to drafting a quarterback or address other team needs.

Key Points:

• First Overall Pick: The Tennessee Titans hold the first pick, with Mel Kuiper projecting Cam Ward from Miami as the top choice. The Titans’ strategy includes seeking a generational talent or potentially trading the pick.
• Giants' Options: With the Giants slated to pick third, options include Shador Sanders or Travis Hunter, both quarterbacks from Colorado with varying prospects.
• Strategic Decisions: The discussion emphasized the importance of the Giants “loving” the quarterbacks they consider, rather than drafting for necessity alone.

Notable Quotes:

• Mel Kuiper [18:35]: “You can't evaluate these quarterbacks and say we have to have one of the two. You've got to love one of those two or both.”
• Peter Rosenberg [20:00]: “I can't with the third overall pick, take a double or a triple. I need to hit a home run.”

5. Strategic Implications for the Giants

Further analysis explored the potential outcomes of the Giants’ draft choices, considering team dynamics, existing coaching strategies, and future prospects.

Key Points:

• Team Needs vs. Passion Picks: Balancing the need for a strong quarterback with the team's desire to select a player they believe in.
• Trade Possibilities: Discussions about trading down if the preferred quarterbacks aren’t selected, allowing the Giants to bolster other positions.
• Long-Term Strategy: Emphasizing the importance of building a cohesive team with the right coaching and supporting players to maximize the impact of the drafted quarterback.

Notable Quotes:

• Alan Hahn [22:16]: “If both are gone, then you take Travis Hunter and you don't apologize.”
• Peter Rosenberg [23:27]: “If they don't love him and don't love either of the quarterbacks, I, then I, I'm going to trade down.”

6. Current NHL Highlights: Rempe and Rangers Performance

Shifting gears, the hosts reviewed recent NHL games, highlighting key performances and the impact of player trust on team dynamics.

Key Points:

• Rempe’s Performance: Praise for Rempe’s improved gameplay, including his defensive plays and scoring abilities.
• Team Trust: The importance of the coaching staff’s trust in players like Rempe to make pivotal plays during critical moments.
• Rangers’ Momentum: Analysis of the Rangers' recent games, noting their growing cohesion and potential for climbing the standings.

Notable Quotes:

• Peter Rosenberg [31:18]: “Rempe is not a great skater, but those hands. He showed some silky mitts there.”
• Alan Hahn [33:24]: “Seeing that moment, sometimes that can galvanize a team.”

7. Concluding Thoughts: Balancing Sports Passion and Objectivity

In the wrap-up, the hosts reflected on the balance between passionate sports coverage and maintaining objectivity, emphasizing the need for informed decision-making in both Hall of Fame voting and team building strategies.

Key Points:

• Informed Discussions: Encouraging listeners to engage in informed and respectful debates about sports decisions.
• Future Episodes: Teasing upcoming topics, including the new head coach for the Jets and further sports analyses.

Notable Quotes:

• Alan Hahn [36:34]: “Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.”

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This episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg provided an in-depth exploration of the intricacies of Hall of Fame voting, the strategic decisions facing the New York Giants in the NFL Draft, and a lively analysis of recent NHL performances. The hosts’ engaging discussions, bolstered by listener interactions and expert opinions, offer valuable insights for sports enthusiasts seeking to understand the deeper narratives within the sports world.

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, hour number two, Don Han, Rosenberg, 880 ESPN. 800-919-3776. The number part of the conversation, loving the interaction today, tons of calls. We will get to as many of them as we possibly can. We do have Mel Kuiper's latest mock. If you're a Giants fan, you want to pay attention. What he suggests could happen at the top of the draft. If you want to get your quarterback, it might be the year to do that. We have more calls to get to there. We, of course, also have the baseball hall of Fame conversation at some point to get to. I know, Don, that you guys talked a lot in the past when it comes to the hall of Fame voting, when it comes to like guy who just doesn't give a vote, just so he's not unanimous.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

That was the big thing with Mo, the big thing with Jeter that we all talked about. But I mean, the fact that Ichiro didn't get a unanimous by one vote, if you're the guy and you know you're the guy, he has not come forward yet. Whoever the baseball writer is, you got to do it. He's getting called up by everybody.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. So you can't say he did it to be that guy because we don't know who it is. Right. So.

[Alan Hahn]

But he knows it's him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He knows it's him. But you don't get the part of being that guy is I want everybody to know I'm being that guy. And.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you mean, you mean why it wasn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You get attention and start going all on the radio show saying, I don't vote for somebody on the first ballot. Or he didn't start his major league career till he was 27 years old. Whatever, whatever. It's, it's whatever the ignorance is. But what I don't understand is there was always that I don't vote for a guy's first ballot because Joe DiMaggio didn't go on his first ballot. I just. I am not doing that. But obviously that was not the case with Mo right now. It was that year that those guys didn't exist. But then, you know, Derek Jeter goes in. One less vote. Obviously, Ichiro now came close. The three people didn't vote for Ken Griffey Jr. The five people didn't vote for Tom Seaver. Like, what are you doing now? At the end of the day, does it matter? You're in the hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no. I know we make a big deal of it, but it's like Bob Ryan. Bob Ryan put this on Twitter. He said, whoever didn't vote for Ichiro Suzuki in the Baseball hall of Fame election should have his or her voting rights revoked and should be placed under house arrest because clearly that person is unhinged and a clear danger to society. Now, of course, it's all tongue in cheek, but it does make you say, like, again, either either he is or he isn't. This whole control thing about, I'm not. I'm the power of my vote because I feel I to make a statement or I have to make a stand. That's not what your vote is for.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just want to know, first of all, it should all be public. Like, I don't like the cloak and dagger of the NHL. You don't. Hockey, you don't know who these people are. Football, it's. I think it's a committee. It's a committee. Each. Each NFL team is represented, and there's a certain number of national guys. Yeah, so. So you kind of know who you voted for, but at least we know who those people are. Baseball, we know who they are, but we just don't know. They don't have to go public with who they voted for. So I would like to know, just part of this whole dog and pony show is all right, well, then why don't you explain to me why you didn't vote for him? And I don't think you can, but maybe you'll say something that, oh, I never thought of that. And then if you. Then we can expose you with, no, I just. I don't look for people on their first bout.

[Alan Hahn]

See, if you had an intelligent reason, one that you put together, you would come out and say it because you'd be bold about it. You'd be like, no, I believe this, and I could probably convince you, but when you Know, you just did it because you're like, you know what? I don't like it. He didn't start his career here. You know, he doesn't deserve it. Whatever you want to say, that's not a good. That's a flimsy excuse, and it doesn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Work well, because I think there should be certain scrutiny on whether these people are deserving of. Of voting. So if he says, I don't vote for somebody on the first ballot, take his vote away. If he says, I don't vote for Japanese players, you take his vote out.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If he says, well, because he wasn't nice to me when I covered him, you take his vote away. Right. So. So at least you kind of know now if he comes up with a valid argument, I can't imagine he would. Yeah, but that's part of what we do for a living, is we articulate our opinions. That's show your works is all about.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes, show your work.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Everything in life is show your work.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I don't have to agree with it. But you know what? If we have a nice, healthy conversation, we agree to disagree, then you get to keep your vote. Like, so I would. If I were the hall of Fame, I'd want to find out, okay, why didn't you vote for him? But I guess they look at it not really about the perfection of the voting, but, hey, who goes in, who doesn't? He still got, you know, 99.7. Whatever the percentage was, he's in, so what does it matter? But I'd like to know. I also hate the fact that it's only writers because it's. Because it's lazy, Alan. Because back in the day, there were only writers that cover the sport because there was no radio, there was no television, there was no social media, there was no electronic media. So you had to use the riders, and it stayed that way. Well, why can't Bob Costas have a vote? Why can't Michael K. Have a vote?

[Alan Hahn]

It's crazy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's silly, and it's just. I wouldn't have fans vote. No offense to fans, but they're obviously biased. They've got agendas. But somebody who is vetted, that's been in the business for a long time, that covers it, whether it's tv, radio, whether it's print, whatever, and they're vetted and they get a chance to vote. I think it's ridiculous that it's narrowed down to just one medium.

[Alan Hahn]

There used to be a time where the print guys were the curators of the sport. Right. But because now electronic media has really taken over and we know now that broadcasters and everything, you have to eventually start to say to yourself just as much as the writers these days, the curators of the sport are the ones that are talking about it as well, that are calling the games that are. That are there. So it is definitely something to consider.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I don't know how much put you thought into curate the sport, but I'm even bothered by that word or. Or a protector of the sport, because then I think you're just taking it way too seriously. I mean, your job isn't to protect the sport, like with the PD stuff, right? Like.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, well, no, I'm obviously, again, I'll. I'll put. I didn't realize we were going to go this deep into it, but I'll push back on that because I'm with you on that one. I do think, like all museums, like, you don't walk into a museum like the, you know, natural history or the American, you know, American history or whatever you want to do. You walk in. Do you only see the good stuff? Do you only see the positive? Do you only see things that are like, no, you got to tell the whole story. And the whole story does have bad things that happen, too, but you learn from history or you're doomed to repeat it. So the hall of Fame should not completely turn a blind eye to that era. It's just acknowledged as such that this was a time, this was the PED era. And so this was the best player at a time where there were no real rules about these things. And then we realized it was going on. We had to put a stop to it. But these are players that were the best of that time, and you have to acknowledge that. I don't understand why you can't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, because I just think because to me, it's just lazy. You know, like when we. We compare players. Well, he had more championships than this guy, so he's better. Well, that's just lazy. Yeah, he might be better, but you're just kind of going after it because.

[Alan Hahn]

His team wasn't good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but I would think that if I cover the sport, I think I'm an intelligent enough baseball fan to say, you know what? I think Barry Bonds, yeah, he might have done pds, but I still think he's a Hall of Famer because I think there was a lot of talent there and I think he was a great player. Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa. You know what? Without the PDS, they probably don't Hit as many home runs, and they weren't great defenders. They didn't hit for average. So you know what? I'm not going to put them in the Hall. Why can't we just have a conversation instead of, I am going to punish you, Alex Rodriguez. The game of baseball is.

[Alan Hahn]

Alex Rodriguez is one of the great players of all time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Absolutely.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, that's just. There's no debate. You don't have to like him. Ty Cobb was one of the worst human beings on the face of the earth. But everybody acknowledged the fact that the guy was a hell of a baseball player.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And also. And this is gonna ruffle a lot of feathers, but I don't care. Bring it. One thing about baseball writers, and there's a lot of guys that I like a lot. All right, you think your sport's better because you just happen to think that it doesn't necessarily make it so. Okay, Baseball is not the best sport. You may think it is. I might think it's hockey. You might think it's football. Anthony might think it's something else. It's all just opinion. But when I remember, I remember I wanted to punch the microphone. And I've never met the man. Don't know him. But. And it was before I was really getting a chance to be a part of the interviews on the Michael K Show. Bill Madden was on, and Bill Madden's like, the only hall of Fame that matters is the Baseball hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To you. Okay, you're entitled to your opinion, but let's not walk around like baseball, church and above it. You know what? A lot of other sports have gotten over the whole PED thing. A lot of other sports have gotten over the whole quote unquote, cheating thing. You even got over it to a certain extent, because last I saw, Gaylord Perry was there and he used the spitball. Okay, so it's. But for what? I've never met a hockey rider, a football writer, a tennis writer, a basketball writer that walked around pompous and arrogant as if they're covering the greatest thing that ever existed.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. This is the battle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They are important because they do it right. Exactly. But I know a lot of baseball guys that are like, I cover baseball. And it's. And that makes me important because baseball is our national pastime.

[Alan Hahn]

You know how bad you are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's funny, you follow the football. It's only because of the gambling and tailgating. Oh, the hockey's. The Canadiens ball. Oh, basketball. No, I cover baseball. That makes me very important. No, you're just the same yo, yo. Everybody else, just try. There's a squirrel trying to get a nut. And I'm not trying to disrespect you because you work hard, but don't walk around. I hate people to do that. Walk around like I'm so good because I cover the greatest sport. Stop. Yeah, like my sport that I hate.

[Alan Hahn]

Own aroma. You. You just went George Carlin. That was such a George Carlin thing you did there. It was fantastic. That was so good, David. And Schenectady wanted to talk about this with us. Go ahead, David.

[Caller]

Hey, young man. I mean, you guys hit every point all across the board. So I'll say one or two things. Barry Bonds. Come on, let's get him in there. They intentionally walked the man with bases loaded. But to my second point, we need to find out who the one guy is who didn't vote for Jeter.

[Alan Hahn]

Ichiro.

[Caller]

That just has to be, like, almost law. And I think I have an idea. It was a guy who either left next door to my brother or across the street because we used to hit balls out of the backyard and we'd break his windows. And I think he just hated us for it.

[Alan Hahn]

Hates baseball. So we had to go get our.

[Caller]

Baseball and fix his window.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the guy.

[Caller]

If you were my neighbor, the guy who lived across the street.

[Alan Hahn]

That was. Mr. David grew up the sandlot. That's a. David grew up in the sandlot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, Mr. Calderon. We played stickball, and. And we would hit Mr. Calderon's house, and he was really cool about it. But then at one point, he was just, all right, guys, enough. And you know what? And we respected it because he let it. Like, we'd hammer his house like, 50 times. And then finally he just opened it. I got, guys, enough. And we're like, all right, let's clean up and go. Like, if he had been upset the very first time we hit it, we would have. We would have been upset with him. But we respect him because he did give us a little. Little rope. Enough for us to hang ourselves with.

[Alan Hahn]

800. Now we're not 3, 7, 7, 6. We got tons of calls to get to. What did you say there, Jake? Jake says Michael K. All right, let's hear. But Michael K. On his show had something to say about this stuff. So let's hear what he had to say.

[Michael K]

Also, getting into the Hall, Ichiro Suzuki. One person didn't vote for him. I failed to grasp how you could sit down with a list of people to vote for the hall of Fame and see Ichiro Suzuki's name on there, and you do not check that box, because what would be the reason for not checking that box? What did he do that didn't make him a Hall of Famer? He's one of the most unique, phenomenal, freakish athletes that has ever gone on the world stage. And he deserved to be unanimous, as did Derek Jeter. Now, the person who didn't vote for Derek Jeter has never come forward. And I think that person is a gutless puke. What did Ichiro not do that screamed out hall of Famer to you? And you can say, well, he's in first ballot. What's the difference? But there's something to be said for being unanimous. So the only unanimous hall of Famer is Mariano Rivera. And you can say that Ichiro is on that same kind of level. And the old argument from the old guard is, well, Joe DiMaggio wasn't unanimous. Tom Seaver wasn't unanimous. Ken Griffey Jr. Wasn't unanimous. Mickey Mantle wasn't unanimous, you know, and it's ridiculous that they weren't. Not everybody should be unanimous. The thing that bothers me with the writers, I don't want them deciding whether you're a first ballot guy or not. I want them deciding whether you're a Hall of Fame or not.

[Alan Hahn]

That's it. That's as simple as that. It's well put by Michael K. Because the simple thing is, is just because that's the way it always was doesn't mean it's the right way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just wonder because Michael will be able to answer this. Like, is it one of those protest things? Like, I'm upset. I can't vote for Pete Rose, so I'm just not voting for anyone and submitted his ballot with nobody. If it's stuff like that, then I'm sorry, you take it away.

[Alan Hahn]

Take it away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Buster only is disgusted with the whole process. He quit. He walked away. He didn't play no reindeer games and start, you know, voting for yo yos. He just said, I'm out.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, just don't give me a vote.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the way you protest. But so I'm wondering if it's like one of those things, and if that's the case, the hall of Fame has to take the vote away from these people.

[Alan Hahn]

Last thing I'll say on this is this. When it comes to Ichiro is this. He visited the hall of Fame seven times during his career. He was a baseball historian. He loved the sport enough to show it respect, to want to know Its history, in fact. So George Sisler's record that he broke the hits in a season record, right? 84 year old record that he broke, which was an epic moment. He visited the gravesite of George Sisler. Like he paid homage to the guy that he was chasing that season. The family came to the game when he broke the record. Like there's a lot going on there that tells you if anyone belongs in the hall of Fame. If anybody is somebody that embraced the sport as much as like you just said, the highbrow baseball media types that get these votes. You would think that those guys would look at Ichiro and say he gets it. But they didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There had to be something to it.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

The only thing Ichiro has that I would argue he shouldn't is the rookie of the year that I get because he was 27 years old. He had played in Japan.

[Alan Hahn]

He's not technically a rookie.

[Caller]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's not. I mean the NHL went through the same thing too, where in the. The Russian guys came over and they were handing, you know, rookie of the year awards to 31 year old. No, that's, that's still. No, but, but still like that's. Even if he didn't win the rookie of the year, Alan, I think that.

[Alan Hahn]

Career is definitely one that's a Hall of Fame. Yeah. So can the Giants get themselves a Hall of Fame quarterback? So Mel Kuiper put out his mock today and, and you know, again, we're going to go through these now for the next three months and go crazy over Each one. But this one is one that caught my attention. So again, we know the Titans have the first pick. They just brought in their new gm. The Titans have made it pretty clear in today's press conference that they're looking for a generational talent. They also have suggested they might even trade out of the first pick if there's enough interest in the pick. And they don't think that, they don't think they need to wait. Like they don't need to have to take their pick first. If they know somebody else is dying for a quarterback, maybe they'll trade out. So that's going to all of a sudden open the doors here. So right now the mock has Cam Ward from Miami going number one. It could be the Titans, but who knows? But he from Miami would be the number one pick. Here's where the intrigue begins. Now the Cleveland Browns have the second pick. Now, we all know that Deshaun Watson is their quarterback for now. They're paying him a ton of money, but they're not happy with him. He's been banged up a lot physically and then he's also been in trouble off the field as well. And then he's got this Achilles injury that you don't even if he's gonna be available next season. So at number two, you would think Mel Kuiper would believe they're going to go with a quarterback, but he has them taking Travis Hunter from Colorado, of course, famously the two way player, the Heisman Trophy winner. And he, he suggests that that's really the way they would go here. So that leaves at the third pick for the Giants a name that is very intriguing, that I think if you're the Giants, if he falls to you, you'll take it. Shador Sanders, right? Deion Sanders, son, the quarterback out of Colorado, first and foremost. Before we discuss this even further, Mel Kuiper always is on DNR in the mornings each week. It's, it's actually a very entertaining spot. I don't know if you've heard it much, but it's very good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Very well.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, they have a great relationship with him and Mel's awesome. We' him on but. So they asked him the obvious question, which is at number three, are the Giants definitely taking a quarterback if Shador Sanders or even Cam Ward is there at number three? Here's what he said.

[Mel Kuiper]

You can't evaluate these quarterbacks and say we have to have one of the two. You've got to love one of those two or both. Or if you don't love either one of them, you don't take them. Singles and doubles don't work in the NFL quarterback anymore. You got to be a triple home run grand slam. There's five grand slams in the NFL in this order, it's number one, Patrick Mahomes. Number two, Lamar Jackson. Number three, Josh Allen. Number four, Joe Burrow. Number five, Jaden Daniels. Those your five best? They're the grand slams. And nobody else is a grand Islam. But those five, you don't have to get there, but get a home run. So you better believe that Cam Warder Shador Sanders can be that guy. If you don't, you don't take them.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so then they followed up with the obvious question, is Shador Sanders then a home run for the Giants?

[Mel Kuiper]

His grade gives him a chance to be. Think about this. I'll just put this in the perspective of what were the grades? Caleb, Jaden and Drake had nine, eight grades last year. When I do my rankings, you don't say. That's why I rank them from, you know, nine, nine. The highest. They had nine, eight. Okay. Which is super high historically. These two, Shador, who's my QB one, and Cam Ward are in that 9:2:9:1 range. So you go 9:8 down to 9,291, that's a significant drop. But every draft is different. You got to. You can always select the guys in your pick the guys in your draft year. Shaden's already a grand slam. Drake's going to be really good. Caleb's going to be really good. They bet. I think they'll be triples or home runs. May grand slam. Do I think these guys can be that good? No, I don't do. I think they could be a double? Maybe a triple? Possibly.

[Alan Hahn]

Don, how do you feel about this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

As a Giants fan, I don't know enough about these quarterbacks to be in love or not in love. I do agree that if they're in love with one of the quarterbacks, then you get them. Like if they love both of them, then if Sanders is there, you take them. If you're not in love with them, you don't take them just for the sake of taking a quarterback. He's right. I can't. I can't. With the third overall pick, take a double or a triple. I need to hit a home run. What I found interesting about the guys that he said are home runs, I think of the four guys, the five guys that he mentioned, wasn't it only one that was taken first overall and that was Burrow?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You Know, Josh Allen was taken seventh overall and was the third quarterback taken.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Lamar Jackson was in the second round, Mahomes was the 10th pick.

[Alan Hahn]

Jackson was 30. He was the last pick of the first round.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The last pick of the first one. But you know, so, so it just tells you that, you know, that, that it could be where, yeah, he's a double or a triple, but then turns out to be a home run. If they feel like he's the guy, then you take them. But I honestly don't know how anybody feels. It doesn't feel like either of these two quarterbacks are looked upon by the experts as home runs. But the last time we had a home run was Trevor Lawrence. And I'm not sure that he's anything more than a double or a triple. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So everybody thought he was a generational talent. That's what we knew. We saw him at Clemson, we saw him coming in and we all looked and thought again. Famously, the jets missed out on him by getting a win late in that season. But that was the feeling is like, this guy is going to be the next generational talent because he was such a great college player. He's got all the measurables, everything you would want. And yet while he started to have an uptick a couple of years ago, or maybe two years ago with Doug Peterson and Jacksonville last year, a major step back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, so. But I'm always been a believer, like with the Ernie, of course he loved Eli, so he did whatever he could to get him and it worked out. You know what? Gettleman loved Jones and it didn't work out. Yes, but. And then I can't say that I trust Joe Shane, but he's my general manager and if he thinks that one of these quarterbacks are the next great quarterback to help them win a Super bowl, then you got to do whatever you can to, to get it. But, but if you're like, I like them and we need a quarterback so let's take them third overall. That, I think that would be a huge mistake.

[Alan Hahn]

And if, if both are gone, then you take Travis Hunter and you don't apologize. No, if one is if, but if one, like he said, you have to love one of them. And if the one you love, like again, Drake May was the one they loved last year. They could have taken JJ McCarthy but chose not to. That could happen again in this draft. And I don't think you apologize. You just can't force it. Imagine going to drafts where you're in the top five and you pass on a Quarterback twice because you don't love what's left and you just keep waiting. You kick the can down the road a little longer because after these guys, it's a lot of defensive players. You know, you got the, the kid from Penn State, the outside linebacker, Carter. You've got Graham from Michigan at the tackle. Who are the jets absolutely love, but I don't think they're going to be able to get them another wide receiver. I mean, you just go through it. A lot of defensive players.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, listen, I like Hunter. He's another weapon. He fills a need.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, they do. They need a corner.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If, if they don't love him and don't love either of the quarterbacks, I, then I, I'm going to trade down.

[Alan Hahn]

You trade down?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, because I, they need a lot of different things. And, and that's what you, you have to do that.

[Alan Hahn]

Get me a first from next. Give me a first next year. I'll trade down and then give me two firsts that I can have for next year so I can move up. If Manning is that guy. And you got to know that the Manning thing is just going to be a story if they don't take a quarterback in this draft. That's, that's what you do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I need, I need a little bit more than just his last name that I'm going to go.

[Alan Hahn]

He's showing you a lot of flash, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I need more, don't I. If I'm going to.

[Alan Hahn]

I get it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, I can. I see him go through a full season as a starting quarterback. I guess we'll see it this year. Yeah, but let, let, let's see. I like the position that they're in. You'd feel better if it was number one. But again, if you didn't like, if you don't love either of these quarterbacks, then one would be attractive only because you'd get more in a trade for it. I don't know how they feel about these quarterbacks. Like, I, I had the same feel about the quarterbacks last year. Right. I'm just going by what the experts were saying.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And, and obviously the, the, the Giants wanted May. I think they wanted Daniels, but they knew they couldn't make a deal with Washington.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So they were trying to make a deal with New England. Do it. Do we know that that's a can't miss. Would that have worked out? Daniels certainly worked out. But would Daniels have worked out here? Like everybody thinks that the quarterback is the answer. It is a major, major piece. But you need the right people, you need the right coach, you need the right coordinator, you need the like right weapons. There's a lot of right things about Washington right now. I'm not trying anything away from Daniels. He's spectacular talent. But you've got an experienced coach in Quinn who took a team to a world, A Super Bowl. Kingsbury, don't love him as a head coach, but a great coordinator that you need a lot of things that have to be in place here. So I know it's disappointing that the Giants, you know, won that game against Indianapolis, don't have the first overall pick, but not knowing how they feel about these quarterbacks, for all we know, if it goes the way he went that he, that he said about Hunter's going to go two to Cleveland, maybe finishing with the third overall pick was the best thing to happen to the Giants.

[Alan Hahn]

Again, if Sanders is there, the commanders for the commanders, right? Caleb Williams went one. You got the better quarterback right now. What Ben Johnson does with him in Chicago, it's so easy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm glad you brought that up because it's so easy to say while Washington loved Daniels, they would have taken Daniels. Would they have taken a first overall with everybody saying that Caleb was Camp Miss and the Caleb was the clear number one. So let's say Washington had the first pick. So you talk about tanking, right? And the Giants. What if the Giants had tanked to one? Would they have taken Daniels? They say they love Daniels. I don't know. Maybe they said they love Daniels because they knew that Chicago wasn't going to part with.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, they knew. They knew Caleb. Remember that whole conversation from Hard Knocks where they had Joe Shane in the office, which by the way, the more you watch, the more compelling it gets now that you know what happened after the fact. The fact that his son was saying, you know, you want this job a long time, you know, trade up to get Daniels. And Joe was like, yeah, that we're not, they're not going to take a trade with us. But they definitely knew that Williams was not a. Not part of the conversation. It was, you know, whether it was May or whether it was Daniels, which one of them could possibly follow them? Could they trade up? But neither New England nor Washington was going to be willing to do anything reasonable because they both were locked in on them. McCarthy loved McCarthy and Dable had a really good time together in their meetings that they had. And McCarthy was raving about Dable and the Giants and there was some thought that maybe Dable liked him, but it did not it was not enough for them to, to pass on a guy like Malik Neighbors, which we'll see if that was the smart move going forward. But again, there's also like. And Dpatra keeps talking about Jackson Dart, the, the quarterback from Ole Miss.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

He's saying to watch him. Kuiper also says to watch him. But Kuiper doesn't have him in his first round mock. So there's always that too, that if you Dart will be the guy that becomes maybe an IT quarterback during, you know, the, the pro day stuff and everything that comes up now, the combine and everything else. And we'll see all of a sudden will he start moving into those first round mocks. So still very early in the process, but Mel Kuiper did have something there for some food for thought if you're a Giants fan going forward.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

Name another more prolific singer songwriter than Billy Joel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They've got. I, I don't know why, but occasionally it's on now there'll be a channel dedicated to Billy Joel on Sirius, but they don't keep it permanently.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I don't understand why it's occasional, but it's, it's long overdue. I mean, his, I tell you what, like, I, I, I'll, I'll reveal this. When he was doing all his shows at the Garden, like he was on, he was regularly, you know, doing those shows and he had a residency that I, I would hope that he'll still appear once in a while. But he did close the residency. But if we were doing like a road post game and we knew he was playing across the street and we'd, we'd be done at like, let's say 10 or you know, 10. Wally and I would go across the street, get in the building and watch the end of the show. And I might have done it maybe five, six times.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

Now that's taking advantage. Right? You can get in the building and all that stuff. But we knew one of the suites where the guy would always invite us up. They were great up there. But it's because it was just so freaking good. Like I never got tired of it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's just so much, there's so many songs.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even if somebody's like, ah, not that biggest fan. You know what, you know, all of them.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really. Honestly, it's, it's again, I'm a metal guy. But listen, I could. I love Simon Garfunkel. As I said, I. Music Chapin. I'm a music guy. And Billy Joel has had the soundtrack for decades. I'm not a huge fan of his, like, 80s and 90s.

[Alan Hahn]

So you like Nylon Curtain is where you stop.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Probably.

[Alan Hahn]

But you're not really big into, like, you know, this is the time. Like, you're not into all that stuff. Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We just tell her about it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. You didn't love all that. He went a little pop. You know, you got to make his money.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, you know, but he still had.

[Alan Hahn]

Some bangers even after that. Like, like, even later. I mean, down Easter. Alexa is incredible, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that's incredible. And I. And I like what's the. In the middle of the night.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that's good too. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peter hates that song, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

No, it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's.

[Alan Hahn]

That's good. But that mo. That moment at the World Series at Citi Field when he was there, they played piano man and 45,000 people sang piano man not knowing he was there. And by the end of the song when the whole place in unison singing it and then he's on the scoreboard and everybody goes nuts because he's singing it too, along with the crowd. Do you remember that? Like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was such a.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, you talk about, like you get chills. Moments like that are really cool, you know? This is really cool. Superbox Bonanza 6 and your chance to get your box for the big game with all a prize pool of $2,000. All. It's coming up in the 5:00 hour, so stay tuned for that. All qualifiers will get an ESPN prize pack and a chance at one of 10 Superbox prizes. Listen daily throughout February 6th to DiPietro and Rothenberg, Barton, Carlin, the Michael K Show and our show, of course, Don Han and Rosenberg. This year's big game payouts are $250 in the first and third quarters, 500 for halftime and a final score payout of $1,000. So brought to you by Tullamore Dew, Irish Whiskey and Sloman Security. For full contest details, go to superbox bonanza.com. stay tuned in 5:00. Thank you, Brownshirt. Wow. So am I onto something about the Remy Hive? Was something that. Something like that goal like he's not a great skater, but those hands. He showed some silky mitts there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was. That was nice. It was the best game he's ever played as a Ranger. He said he came to the defense of his Teammates. Igor got knocked over by Kachuk. Igor looked like he was hurt. I think he was playing possum. Just waited for Kachuk to be open and then just went at him. But he was right in the middle of that. He was offside on the one call that was disallowed. But he created the play to open it up for Carrick to score and then he scores himself. So this is what you want and now you're trusty. He played almost 10 minutes. This has got to build up to where Peter Laviolette has trust to put him on the ice in a tie game and a one goal game in the third period. Because when they're rolling four lines, they're back. I mean the Rangers are starting to feel it. As long as they can roll those four lines. And I don't want Carrick and Enstrom to be nailed to the bench because they don't trust Rempe out there or having to change lines up and double shifting Cooley because you don't want to have him out there. The trust is going to start to build. But this is usually around the time he'll do something stupid and then go right back to square one again.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So hopefully he keeps it going here. You got the Flyers coming up Thursday. That's arrival pretty intense. So hopefully he doesn't get out of line and commit a bad penalty or do something where he gets himself suspended. But the Rangers, that was not nothing. 5 Nothing against a pretty good Ottawa team. Came in with a couple of wins in a row.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they. And really they beat him seven.

[Alan Hahn]

The goal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Two goals were disallowed.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you're starting to see Lafreniere is getting hot. Cooley's starting to score again. Power plays now scored in back to back games. There's still a lot of work to be done, but eight, nine games now. Now with a point six, zero and three. It's. You're starting to feel it now. You're starting to feel like something's beginning to happen here.

[Alan Hahn]

Starting to turn a little bit. That's what's important. When I looked up and saw because again, the Knicks were playing last night, I was locked in on that. But I always bounce back and forth when I can. And I looked up, I saw two nothing right away and I was like, okay, all right. So they're on the board. But I know Ottawa plays hard. They're a hard team to play against and they've been getting good goaltending of late. And so I thought, let's see where this goes. I think I blinked. It was three, nothing. And then the last thing I saw was five. But I also saw that things got, you know, got nasty, which for Brady Tkachuk, that's usually what happens, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Such a good player.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh my God, you know that he's going to get it, get it fired up. So seeing that moment, sometimes that can galvanize a team. But I wanted to ask you, because I know you were watching it because you were obviously covering it, is. Does it feel like something is starting to turn and this might be evidence that it is?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, because you got La Frontiere now, who had three goals in 19 games. He's now scored in back to back. Cooley scored in back to back. His goal in Montreal was his first in 16 games. So now you're relying on other guys besides the Panarins and the Trochecks. Even Panarin, who was kind of on a bit of a slide, you know, got involved in the last couple of games with some assists. And Igor's just Sturkin starting to find it. He came back from this upper body injury and he hasn't lost a game in regulation or hasn't lost a game in regulation. The two losses they had in overtime were with quick, but he's, he's, he's been terrific. Now they dug themselves a big hole, so I don't think they're winning the division. But don't just necessarily count out a top three. I don't want to get crazy, but New Jersey's only won twice in their last nine. In last 10 games, they're the third place team in the, in the Metropolitan division. They've got 58 points. The Rangers have 50. But the Rangers have two games in hand. So if they were to win those games in hand, all of a sudden 8 becomes 4. Devils got Boston tonight, you know, so keep an eye, keep an eye on the Rangers here. They got Philadelphia Thursday, then a very interesting Sunday game. I know there's all the football, but it's a 1:00 game, so it's before our all the football against the Avalanche.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then Tuesday, I'll be there. I don't know what you got. I don't know what the Knicks are doing. That Ranger Hurricane game is going to be a lot of fun. You know, we'll be deep into January. Hurricanes have, you know, three in a row. That, that's a game I think you might want to be at. Alan. Just saying.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I'm free. The Knicks play Monday, Wednesday, so I'm free. Maybe Maybe I'll tag along with you on that one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what we need, man. I would. With these leagues get together, I know it kills Ray Santiago, the producer of the Knicks and Rangers, but to get get the. Get a Monday, Knicks Tuesday, Rangers Wednesday, Knicks Thursday. I like that I get something every day.

[Alan Hahn]

That was the fun part of playoffs last year, wasn't it? Like every night something big was happening in the building.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It kills Ray Santiago dead. And we want to keep him, but because he produces both. But, you know.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Well, he has a healthy wallet because of it, so not a bad thing. 5:00 hour coming up, the big hour. We'll reset everything, including the big news with the Jets. Their new head coach is a name, you know, Aaron Glenn. More on that coming up. Don A little Mazda.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.