Hour 2: Ian O'Connor & Talk About It

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Ian O’Connor & Talk About It

Date: November 11, 2025
Podcast: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg (ESPN New York)
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Special Guest: Ian O’Connor (The Athletic)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the state of the New York Giants franchise, focusing on the uncertain future of GM Joe Schoen, the head coaching search after Brian Daboll’s firing, and the ownership structure's impact under John Mara. The first half is a lively, insightful interview with acclaimed sportswriter Ian O’Connor, who brings both context and candid opinion to the Giants’ turmoil. The second segment features the popular “Talk About It Tuesday,” where the hosts riff on mental health, sports-induced misery, and the rollercoaster of New York sports fandom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Giants' Front Office Shakeup (00:43–05:11)

• Current Status of GM Joe Schoen:

  • Don Rosenberg sets up the discussion, noting that official statements suggest stability – that Joe Schoen will “lead the search” for a new head coach.
  • Ian O’Connor:
    • “Joe Schoen is still probably the betting favorite to have it next year. I just wanted to point out...that is not a slam dunk.” (02:01)
    • Emphasizes that Schoen holds an edge simply because he occupies the job, but “these last seven games matter.”
    • If the team collapses (goes 1–6), it could be a direct reflection on Schoen’s roster construction, even without Daboll coaching.

• The Meaning of 'Lead the Search':

  • O’Connor is suspicious of the term “lead the search,” suggesting it’s corporate spin to project stability to agents and potential coaches:
    • "When you say 'lead,' that infers that the person will be there through the conclusion...I did get pushback on that. It’s interesting that choice." (03:33–04:13)
  • The organization is trying to buy time and avoid further instability.

• Strategic Game-Watching for Evaluation:

  • The next seven games will be a barometer for both the roster and Schoen’s job security:
    • “I do really think they want to look at these seven games and see how Joe Schoen's players play without Brian Daboll coaching them.” (04:56)

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2. Who Will Be the Next Giants Head Coach? (07:19–09:35)

• Job Attractiveness & Candidate Profiles:

  • O’Connor: “It is an attractive job on a lot of levels...most particularly because you have Jackson Dart.” (07:46)
  • Predicts the franchise will seek someone with proven head coaching experience, not a novice.
  • “If you step in and you’re competent, you’re going to look like Vince Lombardi.” (08:08)
  • Top Candidate Mentioned: Mike Tomlin (if available).
  • Other Names Tossed In: Marcus Freeman (Notre Dame), Lane Kiffin, Bill Belichick.

• The Importance of Experience:

  • Alan Hahn: “All New York should always err on the side of experience...after four consecutive failings, at least give me somebody with a bit of a resume.” (09:10–09:26)

• Diversity in Franchise History:

  • O’Connor spotlights the Giants’ lack of diversity in leadership:
    • “The New York Giants have played football for 100 years. They’ve never had a black head coach. And I do think that should be a factor here.” (09:35)
    • But stresses: best person should get the job regardless.

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3. John Mara's Influence, Health, and Decision-Making (10:43–12:42)

• Mara's Health Factor:

  • Despite personal health challenges, Mara was deeply involved in Daboll’s firing.
  • O’Connor: “...the best news yesterday was that John Mara was engaged and executed this. My understanding is he had a phone conversation with Steve Tisch...that they decided to fire Brian Daboll. Schoen was told of that decision.” (11:15)
  • This suggests Mara/Tisch still hold final decision-making power, even as they aim for stability.

• Who's Really in Charge of the Next Hire?

  • “Joe Schoen really wasn’t involved in that decision, which should tell you something about who’s going to really make this hire this time around.” (11:30)
  • Ownership (Mara & Tisch) will approve or veto the final coaching pick.

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4. The Bill Belichick Possibility & Racial Diversity (12:43–16:42)

• On Bill Belichick as a Candidate:

  • O’Connor sees it as unlikely due to age, prior organizational dynamics, and circumstances.
  • However, he leaves the door open given Belichick's connections and the Giants’ emotional meaning to him:
    • “...the one place where he gets emotional is the home of the Giants. But I think that is probably a long shot.” (13:10–14:34)

• Racial Diversity (Again):

  • The Flores lawsuit raised awareness in the organization about reputation and diversity.
  • O’Connor: “...they took some grief for that at the time...there’s that hole in the Giants resume in a very diverse city—and until it happens, it’s still a fact.” (15:16–15:28)
  • Reader feedback: despite Jerry Reese’s success in the front office, fans want to see Black leadership "on the field at the quarterback and head coach position." (16:24–16:42)

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5. Ownership Accountability & Franchise Direction (16:42–21:22)

• Is John Mara Good at This?

  • Don Rosenberg bluntly asks if Mara’s just not suited for football decisions:
    • “Isn’t it just fair to say John’s just not good at this?” (16:42)
  • O’Connor responds with nuance:
    • “He was very good at it when they won two Super Bowls...You’re a good owner when you have a very good head coach and a very good quarterback...John’s record has been really bad ever since that second Super Bowl.” (17:23–18:03)
    • Adds, Mara cares deeply as both a fan and an owner, but hasn’t succeeded executive-wise lately.

• What Kind of Hire is Needed?

  • Alan Hahn: “They need their Tom Thibodeau right now...just get them on track.” (19:32)
  • O’Connor: “I am not taking a chance on another assistant coach who’s never done this before...There are head coaches who’ve had success who want this job.” (20:51–20:58)

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6. Talk About It Tuesday: Mental Health & Football Misery (24:58–36:46)

A. Alan Hahn’s Traffic Saga (25:14–26:46)

• Missed the start of the show due to parade traffic.
• “This was a me problem. I can’t blame New York City...because I wasn’t smart enough to know, take the train today.” (26:04)
• Peter Schrager commends this self-reflection as "growth."

B. Dealing With Bad Seasons as a Fan (26:46–32:02)

• Peter Schrager laments the Commanders’ defensive collapse and overall futility, but maintains surprising mental resilience:
  • “To have been where we were last year and then have watched the game this past Sunday...There was no [hope]...Somehow, I’m in a pretty good space mentally.” (29:48–29:55)
• Alan advises: “Lean forward, not back...keep an eye on Dan Quinn...If there’s a time, we need to be aware and make the right move so we get out of the suck and don’t stay in it.” (31:14)
• Host banter highlights the pain of hope after rare good seasons being dashed, and the perpetual cycle of suffering as a New York sports fan.

C. Stadium Naming & Political Tangents (32:13–36:46)

• Michael K. humorously paints a future of the Commanders playing in a “Donald J. Trump Stadium.”
  • “I want to paint a picture that’ll make you smile...you’re both walking into Donald J. Trump Stadium to see the Commanders.” (32:15–32:31)
• The group riffles on the absurdities of stadium nicknames, and the unique meaning attached to iconic venues like Madison Square Garden (“The Mecca”).
• Peter Schrager admits, “I checked out more the last two weeks than I have in a long time...I was like, now that I’d seen good, I don’t want to see bad anymore.” (32:02)

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7. Bill Belichick – Is He Finished? (39:12–46:16)

• Belichick’s Personality vs. Coaching Value:

  • Don: “All of a sudden, make Bill just some positive byproduct of the greatness of Tom Brady? He’s a hell of a coach. May not like him, but he’s a hell of a coach.” (41:24)
  • Alan: “His personality is what nobody liked...but he has been humbled.” (41:37–41:39)
  • They note that Bill’s ACC record isn’t as bad as the media narrative suggests.

• Will Belichick Get Another Shot, and Should He?

  • Alan: “I personally believe the fact that he not only took the question [about the Giants vacancy]...tells me he’s waiting for the call.” (42:47)
  • Don suggests many people want to see Belichick “go out sad” due to years of arrogance and success.
  • “Whether or not he can win a Super Bowl with them...if he can get them on track...that, I think for him, would be as fulfilling as anything he’s done since his last Super Bowl.” (44:11)

• On Relating to Modern Players:

  • Alan: “Can he relate to today’s player?...Only the guys that won rings love him.” (45:39–45:51)
  • Don: “Trying to relate to players is a problem for a lot of former coaches...” (45:53–46:16)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Ian O’Connor on Joe Schoen: “He is the betting favorite to have it next year...but I do not think that is a slam dunk, certainly.” (02:01)
• On the coaching search: “It is an attractive job...if you step in there and you’re competent, you’re going to look like Vince Lombardi.” (07:46, 08:08)
• Giants’ diversity gap: “The New York Giants have played football for 100 years. They’ve never had a black head coach. And I do think that should be a factor here.” (09:35)
• On John Mara: “He is more like a fan than any owner I’ve ever covered in 40 years...It hasn’t been all wine and roses for me...But he’s a very good man, just not a very good football executive recently.” (18:16–19:16)
• Alan Hahn on needed coaching hire: “They need their Tom Thibodeau right now. They need somebody that's just going to get them on track.” (19:32)
• Peter Schrager on being a Commanders fan: “To have been where we were last year and then have watched the game this past Sunday...There was no hope...Somehow, I’m in a pretty good space mentally.” (29:48–29:55)
• Alan Hahn on Belichick: “I personally believe...he’s waiting for the call.” (42:47)
• Don Rosenberg on Belichick critics: “A lot of people are dancing on his grave...they don’t want him to get what he wants.” (44:41)
• Alan Hahn on “old Bill Belichick” vs. “the old Belichick”: “What you might get is old Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick, which are two different things.” (45:06)

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Notable Moments

• Michael K.'s “Donald J. Trump Stadium” speech (32:13–34:44): A tongue-in-cheek look at stadium naming rights, New York cynicism, and politics mixing with sports.
• Group commiseration about the pain of fandom (31:14–32:02): Relatable sports anguish and advice for surviving another wasted season.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• The Giants’ next seven games will influence key front office futures, contradicting the club’s “stability” narrative.
• Experienced head coaching candidates—especially those with actual winning records—are likely prioritized in the upcoming search.
• Diversity remains a pressing, unresolved issue in Big Blue’s on-field and sideline leadership.
• Ownership under John Mara is passionate but lately ineffective, with final say still firmly held despite “consultative” optics.
• Bill Belichick remains a legendary, if polarizing, candidate—his story far from over, but the Giant's job probably a reach.
• Across the board, the hosts display the very New York blend of skepticism, humor, and undying hope that defines local fandom—even when hope is out of reach.

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For further calls and more on this topic, plus Bill Belichick’s latest remarks and candid host banter, continue with the next hour of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg.

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

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[Don Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Rosenberg]

4:00 clock in the big city. Don Han and Rosenberg with you till 7 o'. Clock. We've got talk about it Tuesday at 4:30. We've got ENN at 6. But the great Ian O' Connor from the Athletic is joining us here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. How are you sir?

[Ian O'Connor]

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

[Alan Hahn]

How are you?

[Michael K.]

Good.

[Don Rosenberg]

Michael K. Says hi. He's just hanging in the studio because he has something to do later on tonight. But he's gonna stay off the air. He's gonna let let us fly solo on this.

[Peter Schrager]

The professionals.

[Ian O'Connor]

I feel like with with Michael hanging around, I should be pumping a book again. But that's okay. We'll take a pass on that this time.

[Don Rosenberg]

You know, I so respect what you do. So when you say things, it's gospel to us and that's why we wanted to have you on to talk about Joe Shane and his status. The press release yesterday made it feel like Joe Shane is stable. Everything is fine. It's not his fault. They've got talent. The coaches screwed it up. He is going to lead the search for the next head coach. But then when you tweeted earlier today about, you know, the new coach will come in in January and everything's going to be reevaluated. It makes it feel like, Ian, that it's far from stable with Joe Shane. And I'm kind of worried about the direction they're going if they can have a new coach. Joe Shane be a part of that and then Joe Shane still not be the general manager next year.

[Ian O'Connor]

I think Don, Joe Shane is still the leader in the clubhouse. Why? Because he holds the job. And until he doesn't, he's still probably the betting favorite. No, he is the betting favorite to have it next year. I just wanted to point out, based on my understanding and making some phone calls yesterday, that is not a slam dunk. And I do believe these last seven games matter. And I heard that yesterday was a little Surprising to me. But, you know, listen, if they go one in six, I do think they'll probably lose these next three games. I don't know, maybe they'll get a bump off of Casca's being there as the head coach and they can win a game Sunday, but they could go.03 in these next three. Now, there are some winnable games in those last four. You could win two or three of those and that might actually matter. But if they're 1 and 6 in these seven games, what does that say about Joe Shane's players not being coached by Brian Dable and still performing at a. At a dreadful level? So I think that it's still more likely than not he will be the general manager next year. But I do not think that is a slam dunk, certainly. And I just wanted to point that out.

[Don Rosenberg]

Well, I'm sorry, Alan.

[Alan Hahn]

Good.

[Don Rosenberg]

I think, I think you just laid it out very well. But I guess my biggest question is you let go of Dable early, I would assume to get a leg up on who the next coach could be. Is Joe Shane going to be making calls in season? Are they going to be looking for the next head coach immediately or are they going to wait till the season is over?

[Ian O'Connor]

No, I believe, listen, in some of those conversations are happening already off the record, maybe some on the record, but yeah, he'll certainly be leading that now. It's interesting if you look at, and I learned long ago, you always sort of look at not necessarily what public figures say, but what they do not say. And that word lead, lead the search. I pushed back on that in some conversations yesterday. And when you say lead, that infers that the person will be there through the conclusion of the search and then beyond. And I did get pushback on that. It's interesting that choice. Lead the search where you can't say for now because the Giants right now need to project a front of strength and when they contact agents and when they contact coaches through third parties, they need to project some strength right now because they're in a very weak position otherwise. And so you can't say he will lead the search for now. I think that's something down the road. The Giants needed to get their legs underneath them a little bit here by themselves some time, catch their breath. All right, we fired Dable and you know, obviously John Mary is dealing with a very serious situation personally and to also fire Shane yesterday. Now you could argue, hey, why not hand it over to Brandon Brown and Abrams and let them do it on an interim basis. Let Them make these phone calls and get this thing going. They could have done that, but they decided not to. And I do really think they want to look at these seven games and, and see how Joe Shane's players play without Brian Dabel coaching them.

[Alan Hahn]

Ian, I think part of it is like the facade of stability, right? That's something that John Mara talked about wanting to have the stability factor, which is why these guys are still here and why Brian Dabel got a chance to coach this year. Otherwise he probably would have made that move last year. But I also think that the front office, and you can tell me if you've heard the same, they believe that they could be 6, 4, 5 and 5 at worst this season if they had more competent coaching late in the game and especially on the defensive side, which I'm a little surprised that Bowen is still there along with he didn't go out the door with Dable. So is there that sense that, okay, let's. If you truly believe that the roster is good enough to be what would have been in playoff contention this season and taking that step, then let's see how this plays out the rest of the year. But it also has to do with whoever is going to be the head coach, whether or not they want you there.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah, that's a great point, Alan. And I think, yeah, you can look at. They should be five and five, right? They two collapses, three collapses in the fourth quarter. Say you win two of those. How do you lose the game against the Saints with five straight turnovers? Right. So they should be five and five. And I think that's the way the front office looks at it.

[Alan Hahn]

So.

[Ian O'Connor]

And also understand this going forward, that Joe Shane had a big advantage over Brian Dabel here. He's constantly talking ownership every day. Brian Dabel's busy coaching the team, meeting with his fellow coaches, watching film, running practice. So ownership is constantly getting Joe Shane's version of events. And that's just the way it is. It's built in that way. And they're not constantly getting Brian Tables version of events. They're looking at the results and they made the decision they made yesterday. As you guys know, there have been times where a head coach is hired first and then a GM is hired after the fact. I'll go back a couple of years to the Chargers hiring Jim Harbaugh and then they hired Joe Ortiz afterward. Ortiz wanted the Giants GM job and he was going to try to bring Jim Harbaugh with him. If that happened instead of hiring Joe Shane and Brian Dabel. I think The Giants would be in a much different place.

[Peter Schrager]

All right, so. So it's. It makes sense that Joe Shane's the leader in the clubhouse at this moment. Who would you say is the leader in the clubhouse, so to speak, or lack thereof, at the head coaching position?

[Ian O'Connor]

I really don't know. I think, man, there are so many candidates out there and it is an attractive job because you have a dynamic young quarterback. It is New York. And you look at the records over the last nine years, 3 and 13, 5 and 11, 4 and 12, 6 and 10, 4 and 13. It just never ends. And so if you step in there and you're competent, you're going to look like Vince Lombardi. So I think it is an attractive job on a lot of levels, most particularly because you have Jackson Dart. I have a feeling that. Well, first of all, I cannot see them hiring somebody who hasn't had some successful head coaching experience. They've tried it. It doesn't work. So I think they're going to hire a successful head coach. I've already advocated for Mike Tomlin if he's available. I think he'd be the absolute perfect hire at this point in time with this franchise. But I think Marcus Freeman could be a very interesting guy to watch. And even though he doesn't have head coaching experience in the NFL, he's done a very good job at Notre Dame. That's the kind of place the Giants line up with. And I think he's an impressive person, the way he leads and the way he carries himself in public. And so I could see him being a factor in this, in this search. I think Mike Tomlin's the perfect person. That's why I wrote what I did today for the Athletic. If he's not the guy, I think it absolutely has to be somebody who has done it, who has won as a head coach, if not at the NFL level, at least at the highest level of college football.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yeah, it feels like the job is just too daunting for somebody with inexperience. Honestly, it's New York. It's a fragmented franchise that has not won in a long, long time.

[Alan Hahn]

Really.

[Don Rosenberg]

I think all New York should always err on the side of a little bit of experience. But. And I know Shermer had experience in Cleveland, but it certainly wasn't any kind of success. But after four consecutive failings, Ian, at least give me somebody with a bit of a resume.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah, Pat Shermer, I think, was 9 and 23 with Cleveland, and guess what? He was 9 and 23 with the Giants.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Rosenberg]

So bad coach, bad coach.

[Ian O'Connor]

That, that hire, that was the one worst hire of the whole bunch of those guys. Joe Judge and McAdoo and Dable. I thought Shermer, there was no way that guy deserved that job at that point. And he gave you a 9 and 23 just like he gave the Browns. And this has to be a winning head coach they bring in. If you want to bring in Lane Kiffin, fine. Now I brought this up in my column and I do think it's important to note that the New York Giants have played football for 100 years. They've never had a black head coach. And I do think that should be a factor here. But it should go to the best person. If the best person is Lane Kiffin, if the best person is Bill Belichick, in your opinion, then hire that person. But it has to be a winning head coach. They cannot go down the same path with a novice coordinator. By the way, a couple of years ago I asked John Maurer about hiring Dable, a guy who's never done it as a head coach. And Mara said the most important or the most difficult thing for an owner by far in the NFL is trying to determine if a head coach candidate who's never done it before can be successful in your organization. And he swung and missed on a bunch of guys, including Dable.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Ian, because you brought up John Mara and obviously, first and foremost, all we want is to make sure that, you know, he gets through the battle that he's going through right now, health wise and that's important. But because we know he's going through something, how much is that also playing a factor in here where Joe Shane has to be appointment and you know, what is, you know, what is the hierarchy structure with the Giants if he isn't available to be part of things on a daily basis?

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah, I think the best news yesterday was that John Maurer was engaged and he executed this. And my understanding is he had a phone conversation with Steve Tisch that they decided to fire Brian Dable. Shane was told of that decision. So Joe Shane really wasn't involved in that decision, which really should tell you something about who's going to really make this higher this time around. And my understanding is John Marek called Dabel into his office. I don't believe Steve Tisch was there. I could be wrong about that, but I believe it was a one on one and told him to his face that we're making a change. And so to me, the fact that Mara was in the building and he did Something that was very difficult to do, unfortunately. He's had to do it a bunch of times recently. I actually took that as a good sign. My understanding is, hey, listen, he announced this for a reason in late September. This is a serious thing he's dealing with, but he is carrying out his duties and that he. My understanding is that he'll be involved in this. And at the end, I think if, assuming that Shane is still there, he'll make a recommendation to ownership on who the head coach should be. They'll either accept that, notarize it or reject it. But John Mara with Steve Tisch will make the final decision on who the. On who the head coach will be talking to.

[Don Rosenberg]

You know, Connor from the Athletic here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. I floated the idea of Belichick yesterday.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, I sure did.

[Don Rosenberg]

And Peter and Alan made a good point that you may not be getting the Belichick of old. It seemed to kind of change after Brady left in New England. It has not been good in North Carolina. You got the whole girlfriend factor and all that. So I kind of backed off it a little bit. But what, what is the possibility of Belichick being considered here?

[Ian O'Connor]

I don't think it's great, Don. I think he can't rule it out. He's going to be what, 74 in April? And it's funny because they've been, there's been so much really good reporting on the dysfunction in Chapel Hill. Yet Belichick is mere inches away from having a four game winning streak and being 4 and 1 in the ACC. Really inches against Cal and against Virginia at the goal line in both games. And he has a four game winning streak right now. So I, I still think he's a viable coach. John Mara does have a relationship with him. You remember when they hired Joe Judge, Belichick told Mara, hey, he's better than the last two guys you hired and so gave him a recommendation. And so I don't think they're in touch all the time, but by email. And I think that that will be a conversation that probably will be had. But I don't see Belichick at age is going to be turning 74 in April at this stage taking over the Giants. But I wouldn't completely rule it out. I think it's a dream job for him. It's the one place where he goes, where he gets emotional is the home of the Giants. And so it is a job he should have had. George Young never liked him. George Young never wanted to hire him. That's the only Reason he didn't get the job way back when. And it would be something to see him in his final job in his career with the New York Giants. But I think that is probably a long shot.

[Peter Schrager]

You mentioned the thing that does come up every time there's a head coach. And Don, we've had the conversation many years on the case show about the lack of a black head coach and, you know, a real black starting quarterback on this franchise as well, with the exception of, of course, the oddest scenario ever where Geno Smith replaces Eli Manning. Obviously, Mike Tomlin is the probably the best choice available of all head coaches. And that would, that would be a bonus, certainly. Do you think that's a factor that would actually weigh in? Like, are the Giants as an organization aware of. Of this narrative that exists that like, hey, we, we, this may be a good thing for our franchise, all things equal, for us to have a black head coach?

[Ian O'Connor]

Oh, yeah, they're aware of it. If they weren't aware of it before Brian Flores sued the league and cited the Giants and their alleged sham interview, they're certainly aware now. Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

So.

[Ian O'Connor]

And they took some grief for that at the time. And listen, I reported for the New York Post at the time that John Mara reached out personally to Brian Flores just to make sure he knew that he was a very serious candidate and he wanted him engaged. And I think there was no question, John Marra at least, and I didn't talk to Joe Shane about this, he saw Flores as a top two, top three candidate for that job. Now he didn't get it. And so, yeah, there's that hole in the Giants resume is a nice York and a very diverse city. And so until it happens, it's still a fact they've never had a black head coach. You're right. Also, Russell Wilson did get a start.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah. The word quarterback. It was the word quarterback that threw you.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

Based on what we've seen this year, it didn't. It didn't resemble that, but that is correct.

[Don Rosenberg]

It's. So go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Ian O'Connor]

No, I was going to say Russell Wilson almost didn't even make it to a home start, but he did. Barely.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Ian O'Connor]

And so. No, it was a good point that. Listen, I once I had a reader contact me about this issue and I pointed out, hey, Jerry Reese ran football operations and won two Super Bowls. And he said, yeah, but we want to see black leadership on the field at the quarterback and head coach position. And that's a very fair point.

[Don Rosenberg]

Now, it's tough for me, Ian, because I'm a Giant fan and I respect the Maras, you know, tremendously. And I think sometimes what happens in sports is when an owner or a coach or a general manager is bad at their job, they become bad people. And I don't think that's fair. John maz a great man. I think the Mares are a great family. But isn't it just fair to say John's just not good at this? He's just not. I mean, really, ever since Wellington passed away and he took over, every decision he has made has been, you know, bad to worse. Is it possible? You could be a good guy, you're good for football, and you could be a great owner, but when it comes to football decisions, he just is not very good at it.

[Peter Schrager]

Is that fair?

[Ian O'Connor]

Well. Well, he was right.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, that.

[Ian O'Connor]

That's true. That is fair. But he was very good at it when they won two Super Bowls with him running the show with Coughlin and Eli. And the bottom line is this. You're a good owner when you have a very good head coach and a very good quarterback. You're a bad owner when you don't have those two things. And John has to take the hit in the last nine years, as I mentioned, for not having the right head coach.

[Don Rosenberg]

I got it right, people around him. But also, you look at the timeline. Oh, Jerry Reese was the general manager of those two Super Bowls with Eli, but let's face it, Ernie, of course, he was the guy that built those teams. All right? And Ernie, of course, he was hired by Wellington, Right?

[Peter Schrager]

So.

[Don Rosenberg]

And Tom Coughlin was hired by Wellington. So even though he was the owner, because Wellington died in 05, and those championships came in 07 and 2011, weren't they really built by Wellington? And, of course, he.

[Ian O'Connor]

Well, I mean, it's a fair point. I think John did have a role, and there were some moves made after the fact that. It's a fair point, but I think John was involved to some degree. And to give him no credit, particularly for the second Super bowl in 2011, when there was some changeover from 07, I think is taking too much away from him. But I do think the results speak for themselves. One of his favorite people in the business, Bill Parcells, always said, right, you are what your record says you are. And John's record has been really bad ever since that second super bowl, with an exception or two. So I think it's fair criticism. I will say this. He's more like a fan than any owner I've ever covered in 40 years of doing this, and that it really pains him. He really feels the pain of the upper deck fan, unlike any owner in any sport I've covered. And that doesn't make it any better. But I do know that he cares deeply about getting the Giants right. And he is one of the good guys in sports, there's no doubt about it. It hasn't been all wine and roses for me either. He didn't talk to me for two years for some criticism I sent his way. But I do think deep down he is a very good man. And in recent years, he has not been a very good football executive.

[Alan Hahn]

And you hope certainly that, you know, again, learning from the past where they tried to find the next big name assistant coordinator to be the head coach. And you had mentioned earlier that. And it does feel like at this point in the franchise, you got to bring in somebody like. I've used the reference, Ian, and you know where I'm getting it from. They need their Tom Thibodeau right now. They need somebody that's just going to get them, just. Just get them on track. Right. Get them back to just being a functioning franchise, a functioning team on the field and just build back to that point. And you know, again, Tibbs had been here before. You see Mike Vrabel in New England, he's kind of doing that, isn't he? Right. He's kind of coming in and he got them established. Re established. And boy, they look like they're right back on track. That's. I'm wondering, out of candidates. Belichick sounds like that guy, but we just don't know at this point if he is that guy. But I gotta feel like, and I don't know if you get the same feeling that while there are some, you know, big name coordinators out there, you know, Clint Kubiak's one of them for sure, that is getting a lot of attention. This feels like if I'm Mike McCarthy or if I'm Belichick or even if I'm Mike Tomlin, I got to be looking at that job and thinking, I've got a great shot at this, 100%, Alan.

[Ian O'Connor]

And I think you're right on Tibbs or Bucks Showalter with the Yankees.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a good one, too. Yep.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah. And so I am not taking a chance on another assistant coach who's never done this before.

[Alan Hahn]

No way.

[Ian O'Connor]

If the Giants do that, I will be teeing off on them because this. Listen, there are head coaches who've had Success who want this job. There is no question about it. It is New York. You have Jackson Dart. There is some talent on this roster. You can turn this around fairly quickly with the right head coach. And, man, this is the most important decision that the Giants have made in a very, very long time, and they cannot screw this one up.

[Don Rosenberg]

Ian, always a pleasure, man. We'll talk to you soon.

[Ian O'Connor]

Hey, thanks, guys. My pleasure.

[Don Rosenberg]

Ian o' Connor from the app there.

[Alan Hahn]

Really good stuff there for me, and.

[Don Rosenberg]

He knows this organization and I thought he brought up some really good points. And we'll take your calls on that a little bit later on in the hour. But coming up next, talk about it Tuesday. Are you ready?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

Get some things off your chest.

[Don Rosenberg]

I know Alan's got a lot.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm ready to talk about some things, but I want to also talk about something that is near and dear to my heart.

[Peter Schrager]

Bathtubs.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what that is? It's bathtubs.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

I knew it.

[Alan Hahn]

It's a beautiful bathroom because my friends at Bath Fitter set that up for me. And also I remodeled the bath in my house. I've talked about it. They took the bath out. It was a. It was garbage. It was ugly. Nobody used it. And turned it into a beautiful shower. They do that, too. They also obviously do the bath remodel, which is what my sister did once she saw the stuff I did. So we had this done. And I'm telling you, this is the time of year where you're going to have people over. It's holiday season. You're going to have people visiting, people coming over. You know, you have that one guest bath. You're like, I don't want people using this. I need to upgrade. Now's the time to do it. Bath Fitter offers all types of custom bath renovations. They have the unique permafit solution. That's what my sister did. It's a watertight fit. But why you should do it right now? I'll give you some reasons. Number one, no money down, no payments, no interest for 18 months. No interest until April of 2027. You'll forget that you even have this done. You'd be like, oh, I had that done a couple years ago. Oh, that's right. I hadn't paid interest yet. Bath Fitter is a permanent fit solution. Everybody the leader in bathroom renovation. Don't, don't go for these other brand names that are trying to do it now. They're the originators. Bath Fitter, this is done in one day, which is why it's perfect for before the holidays. Durable, easy to clean, no demolition, lower cost than replacement, and best of all, lifetime guarantee. So take advantage of Bath Fitters biggest sale of the year. Right now you can save up to $800 on a complete bath Fitter system. See their website or call for details on this Black Friday savings. You can trust the batfitter team like we did. So start designing your bath [e-mail] there's only one batfitter.

[Don Rosenberg]

Talk about it Tuesday, coming up next.

[Peter Schrager]

This message is sponsored by BetterHelp. Shorter days don't have to be so dismal. It's time to reach out and check in with those you care about and to remind ourselves that we're not alone. This month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call 250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout after calling 250.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Schrager]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes you just can't take it anymore. This is let's Talk About It Tuesday with Don Han and Rosenberg, sponsored by Better Help.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh yeah, you kidding me, Guys? Time for let's Talk About It Tuesday. Sponsors sponsored by BetterHelp. Mental health is health, and I want to check in on the mental health of my good friend Alan Hahn, who had quite the trip into the city today.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm okay. I blame myself. So it wasn't like I was yelling at pedestrians or those who were directing traffic away from the middle of the city because obviously the parade was Fifth Avenue. So that was on the minute I got into the city and I saw it was Anthony. What did I say? I had a mile and a half and it was 45 minutes.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah, it sounded right.

[Alan Hahn]

The GPS updated and I just realized, like, why didn't you take the train today? So this is more like, for me, I'm more. I'm down on myself today, Peter.

[Don Rosenberg]

Oh, no.

[Peter Schrager]

Why?

[Alan Hahn]

For not just preparing. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

[Peter Schrager]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's literally what I did today. So it cost me the beginning of the show, but we recovered well and, and I'm, I'm good now.

[Peter Schrager]

That's it. You feel fine now?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, yeah. I was, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna turn this into a, you know, a requiem on New York City traffic or any of that stuff. I'm not doing that. It's. This was a me problem. I did this. I can't blame New York City, Manhattan traffic, because I wasn't smart enough to know, take the train today.

[Peter Schrager]

Responsibility.

[Alan Hahn]

You feel like. I feel like I, I grew today. I felt like some girlfriend. Right. Because there have been times in the past. Anthony knows this from the night shows. There's been times in the past where I'll just, I'll do a whole segment on traffic and potholes and just how stupid the whole city structure is. But today, no, today was me.

[Peter Schrager]

Good for you, man. Good for you. I'm here, I'm here to just give a few words to everybody whose football team has decided the season's over before you get to mid November. You know, and I, I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm welcoming Ballard to my club, but I will say, like, for people like Ballard, who had put the, the packers in the Super Bowl a month and a half ago, it certainly looks to be a little bit further away than it appeared. Now, I'm not going to read too much into a really hard fought, you know, 10, seven loss to a team that probably will go back to the super bowl yet again. They are the champs for a reason. But if you're sitting here right now, you know, you probably don't feel the same way. Steelers fans out there, you know, I don't want to pile on Danny after we already had our problems with them last week.

[Don Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

But you will.

[Peter Schrager]

But I will say it's not looking glorious. After dropping three out of four, the Steelers not looking like the same team. Now, Mike Tomlin has come out and said he has no long term concerns about Aaron Rodgers play. But certainly things don't look to be the same there. There's just. You look around the league. The Buffalo Bills, Taye Diggs. No, you take a look at the Buffalo Bills and A couple of weeks ago, they beat Kansas City, and you're fantasizing about doing it one more time in the playoffs. And now you're sitting here at 6 and 3. You know, the Patriots at 8 and 2 after losing just a ridiculous game to Miami, an in division game against the team that appeared to be done. Don, how can you reasonably be thinking about the super bowl right now if you're Buffalo and I'm not trying to bury them and put a pitchfork in them, as you might do, Don, but still not a great. Not a great time. San Francisco 49ers, you thought, oh, you know what, we're going to shock the world, compete. Well, now you're sitting at 6 and 4. You got beat up pretty bad in division on Sunday. You're really taking that team seriously. But none of these teams, guys, none of these teams hold a candle to a team that has given up 154 points over three games. I know people don't like to use the word quit. The commander's defense appears to have quit 38 and a half points a game. Guys. To not pick against them right now is. It's a. It's a professional malfeasance.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, wow.

[Peter Schrager]

It's criminal that I going there. I should have picked it. I should pick against them every week till the season's over. The lines won't be big enough. They don't have. They don't. I mean, respectfully, we all think Mariota is a nice little backup to bring in for a game or two. He can't be your starter for the whole season. Terry McLaurin signs the big deal in the off season.

[Alan Hahn]

He's completely lost, never available.

[Peter Schrager]

The defense has multiple injuries. They did not fire Joe Witt Jr. The defensive coordinator. I don't know that I recall.

[Alan Hahn]

This is Daron Payne.

[Peter Schrager]

Dan Quinn just taking over defensive play calling. Duron Payne suspended because apparently you're not allowed to punch players in the face. And while I'm at it. And while I'm at it, when will football players learn to stop punching people in the face with their damn helmet and face mask on? What is even the point? You're getting suspended, Don, and you're making no contact and you hurt your hand. You're hurting your hand.

[Don Rosenberg]

You're not hurting the person you want to hurt.

[Peter Schrager]

Hurting the person. But, I mean, this is, I got to tell you guys, like, I'm in a pretty good space mentally somehow. I don't know how.

[Don Rosenberg]

Because you got a child.

[Peter Schrager]

I guess it's the child part.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

But to have been where we were last year and then have watched the game this past Sunday. We're literally from beginning to end. There was no. But I'll tell you what.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what it is.

[Peter Schrager]

What? That we were good last year.

[Alan Hahn]

You're. What you're going through because you were a fan of a team that was dysfunctional for a long time, and you finally got a taste of good and you liked it.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, loved it.

[Alan Hahn]

And what happened this year was the. The predictable step back from good because it all. It happened too fast. And you always have that step back from good, and you don't like this, and you don't want this world anymore. So you're. You know, I get that it almost is worse to have that tease of a good year and feel like, wait, are we legit again? And then go back to this. And your concern is that it stays here. You've got to believe that you're climbing out is. Which is why I told you I. My advice to you, Peter, because I've been through this. I have a great experience in rooting for bad teams. And my advice to you in a year like this is to lean forward, not back. Because I'd be. I'd be. I'd be questioning everything you talked about. The defensive coordinator. I would. I'd be keeping an eye on Dan Quinn. Is this. Is this the guy?

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, he got us.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. But is he the guy? No, Listen, there's other teams gonna be, like, getting coaches now. There's other coaches that are going to be available. Some of these, you know, again, these coordinators that everybody's excited about, somebody's gonna make the right hire. You know, six openings, not all six, are always bust. There's always that one. We're like, damn, they got a good one. You want to lean forward and say, if there's a time, we need to be aware and make the right move so we. We get out of the suck and don't stay in it. That's my. As a fan, I feel like that's your motivation. That's what keeps you watching. Because if you turn away and just hope you get out of the suck, because, wow, they had injuries and all this stuff happen, you know, you'll come back next year with the same hopes. And then. And then now you're really looking bad again.

[Peter Schrager]

Now you're really back in the suck.

[Alan Hahn]

And then you're really depressed.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah, it's weird. I checked out more the last two weeks than I've been checked out.

[Alan Hahn]

It's understandable.

[Peter Schrager]

I just Was like, now that I'd seen good guys, I was like, I don't want to see bad anymore.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Schrager]

This is what the. I hated doing this. And Michael, why'd you put your headset back on? Turn your microphone on as well.

[Michael K.]

It is on.

[Peter Schrager]

There you go.

[Michael K.]

I want to make things better for you. I'm going to paint a picture that make you smile a couple of years from now. Jayne Daniels is healthy, team's defense is stout. You're walking with Maya, her little hand in yours and you're both walking into Donald J. Trump Stadium to see the commanders. I think it's all gonna be good. It's all gonna be good.

[Alan Hahn]

What are they gonna call it? Michael? What would be the nickname of Credential is the Rock. What would you call that?

[Michael K.]

The Prez.

[Peter Schrager]

You know what? You did make me feel better. I'm so glad you put your headset.

[Michael K.]

Where are you going today? And you'll say, I'm going with Maya to. To the press to see my team.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

Heading down to the Trump to Trump Stadium. And that was by the way, so I got that this weekend was. They're renaming the stadium for Donald Trump.

[Michael K.]

No, no, naming it.

[Peter Schrager]

They're naming it for the new stadium. Yeah, the new one story, by the way. It made no sense. What does that mean? He wants that.

[Don Rosenberg]

You know what?

[Peter Schrager]

I want to get a nightly show at 11 o' clock on ESPN.

[Michael K.]

Yeah, but he usually gets what he wants.

[Peter Schrager]

Not always, though.

[Michael K.]

Usually.

[Peter Schrager]

And I'm telling you, they're not going to give it to him over Citibank. If they offer a billion dollars. Not gonna go well. The president's been very nice to us. We're gonna name it after Trump.

[Michael K.]

Well, maybe it'll be Citibank Trump Stadium.

[Peter Schrager]

That. Now that's interesting, by the way, but Trump. Trump's gonna be out of office. But he will never set foot in D.C. i mean, depending on what happens, he will never set foot in D.C. again.

[Michael K.]

That's not the way to bet.

[Peter Schrager]

They're not gonna.

[Don Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Peter Schrager]

Unless they move the stadium to Mar a Lago.

[Michael K.]

Right.

[Peter Schrager]

Which by the way, maybe that's on the table as well. Certainly better. Better weather to go to games.

[Michael K.]

I just. I mean. Little hand in yours walking in and she says, daddy, tell me about the person this is named after. And you say, well, that's President Trump. He was the 43rd and the 45th.

[Peter Schrager]

And maybe the 48th and 49th.

[Michael K.]

Absolutely. I think that's good. Then you're.

[Alan Hahn]

You'll imagine dancing and singing, yell, just screaming like singing the name of the stadium over and over.

[Michael K.]

Here's the best part. Like big timeout, you know, they have to fill the timeouts. And she's standing there like everybody else doing the Trump games. Yeah. I think it's going to be great.

[Peter Schrager]

Like a Monstate Brown.

[Don Rosenberg]

She's doing the same Fortune Tigers did. Yeah. To root for teams that have won championships. I don't ever remember celebrating the building.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, but this is going to be different.

[Michael K.]

This will be. This will be.

[Peter Schrager]

By the way, this might be different. For the record, I grew up and the stadium. The stadium was RFK Stadium. Right, right, right. And I never once went into the stadium going RF.

[Don Rosenberg]

When the Devils won the cup in 95, I wasn't like Brandon Burn.

[Alan Hahn]

Love that.

[Ian O'Connor]

Brendan Burns.

[Alan Hahn]

I happen to work at a place that has a nickname. It's one beloved by its fan base and the players who play in it. The Garden, it's called the Mecca.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, the Mecca.

[Alan Hahn]

And so just understand that if the building has some kind of. It's. If it's iconic and you have some winning happening in that building. Lots of winning. So much winning. So if you're so tired of the winning.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, by the way, you know what my hope was, by the way, the.

[Alan Hahn]

Nickname will come along with it.

[Peter Schrager]

I don't want to let my political beliefs leak.

[Don Rosenberg]

No, you never know.

[Michael K.]

And by the way, I love about.

[Alan Hahn]

You, I'll tell you what guides them.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, it really does, Al. And this week of all weeks, sports and politics completely separated all over the place. So who would I be to say anything?

[Michael K.]

Right.

[Peter Schrager]

But the one hope that I had as someone who maybe wasn't rooting for that being the name of the stadium was how bad we played. You know, Trump doesn't like no loser. He looked at that field and was like, who is this big heap of trash? He probably left a Lions fan. He wouldn't want to associate with that team. We're garbage.

[Don Rosenberg]

Well, that report came out with them still playing poorly even after that Detroit.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, yeah, but you. But, but, but then he went there. He showed up and he probably thought, I want to see what they do do. They respect the office. And they didn't show up at all. They were horrifying. That was their worst game of the year.

[Don Rosenberg]

Now, sometimes it doesn't happen in real time.

[Peter Schrager]

What's that?

[Don Rosenberg]

But the Yankees turned it around after Trump made an appearance. It is possible that the commanders can. It didn't happen at that moment.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, but you're saying now next week they start.

[Don Rosenberg]

Did the Yankees lose The game that Trump was there. But then they went on a little bit of a run after.

[Peter Schrager]

I think they won that one.

[Michael K.]

They might have won that.

[Peter Schrager]

No, no, it was a judge home run and they won that one.

[Michael K.]

Right.

[Peter Schrager]

It was a big judge home.

[Don Rosenberg]

But maybe.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, listen, I'm open to all things happening, Don. If you're very open, lead to this very open. Well, it starts with a big game. You know, you throw out the record books when the commies and the Dolphins head to Madrid. That's when football's at its finest.

[Don Rosenberg]

What did Madrid ever do to us?

[Michael K.]

Right.

[Don Rosenberg]

Why are we punishing them?

[Alan Hahn]

These games are so bad.

[Peter Schrager]

That is it for let's talk about it Tuesday. Sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com timeout today for 10% off your first month of therapy.

[Don Rosenberg]

Four.

[Michael K.]

Four what?

[Don Rosenberg]

Straight weeks? Yep. We ran out of time and I didn't get to speak on talk about it Tuesday.

[Peter Schrager]

You didn't have.

[Don Rosenberg]

It's a nice run.

[Michael K.]

No.

[Peter Schrager]

You didn't want to do it.

[Don Rosenberg]

Nice run.

[Michael K.]

Well, why can't you continue?

[Don Rosenberg]

No, because we got Bill Belichick sound. Bill responds to the allegations that sounds changed right there.

[Michael K.]

You're the.

[Don Rosenberg]

You're two hours left. It's between Art Howe and Bill Belichick, who lights up a room.

[Michael K.]

I don't even think that's Belichick. I believe it's Jordan Hudson speaking for Bell. That's what I heard. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Schrager]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, before we get to calls into the Bill Belichick audio of it all, and much more than that, I need to tell you guys about my friends at Bat Fitter. As you know, they remodeled the bath at my house. They actually took an old bath and turned it into a gorgeous shower. My sister loved it so much, she had work in her bathroom. Done too by Bath Fitter. Now's a great time if you want to update a bath in your house, especially with guests coming over for the holidays. If you have a guest bath or a room that they use and you're like, you know, we gotta upgrade this. This is kind of getting gross. Bath Fitter is where you want to go. They offer all types of custom bath renovations, including, of course, their unique permavit solution. It is a watertight fit, plus it is a lifetime guarantee, everybody. So this is not something that's just going to start bubbling up in like a year or two. This is something that will last a lifetime. They guarantee it. And if you want to get it done now in your house, this is the best time. Why? No money down, no payments, no interest for 18 months. No interest till April of 2027. Bath fitter, as you know, is a permanent fit solution. And they are the leader in bathroom renovation. It's done in a day, one day. Durable, easy to clean, no demolition. Lower cost, of course, than a full replacement. And as I mentioned, a lifetime guarantee. You got to take advantage of bathfitters biggest sale of the year right now. You can save up to $800 on a complete bathfitter system. See their website or call for details on this Black Friday savings. You can trust the bathfitter team just like we all did. So start designing your bath [e-mail] there's only one batfitter.

[Peter Schrager]

How long is that guaranteed you?

[Alan Hahn]

It's a lifetime, baby.

[Don Rosenberg]

Lifetime. That's awesome.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that's a lifetime.

[Don Rosenberg]

For you and me, that's a tremendous product and we both have used it. It's great stuff. 1-800-919-3776 A lot of people want to chime in, but Bill Belichick spoke today press conference in North Carolina. And he of course, was asked about the Giants head coaching vacancy.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah, right.

[Alan Hahn]

For a course.

[Bill Belichick]

That's all I got this week.

[Peter Schrager]

Has anyone asked you or the players or recruits want to know about your future?

[Bill Belichick]

I've been asked about it from time to time, but yeah, look, I've been down this road before. I'm focused on Wake Forest. That's it. And that's my commitment to this team. And next week it'll be to our next opponent and so forth. But, you know, I'm here to do the best I can for this team.

[Don Rosenberg]

Well, you guys said he might have changed. That sounded like the old Belichick.

[Alan Hahn]

That was not the old Bill. Yeah, in the beginning it did.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yeah. Just a little bit extra.

[Alan Hahn]

He didn't do the onto Wake Forest over and over again. He actually did offer you a little insight as to. Yeah, this has come my way before. You know, I had heard that he had a press conference where he showed up late. He apologized to the media for being late and stayed an extra couple of minutes and said, if you have any more, I'll wait a little longer because I made you wait. Like, he is not the same guy.

[Don Rosenberg]

But does that necessarily mean that he can't be the same coach like you heard Ian say? You know, they're Close to being four and one in conference. And like, everybody wants to paint the picture that it's been a disaster in North Carolina because let's face it, I'm not going to be no Bill Belichick apologist, but there are a lot of people that hate on him and want him to fail in North Carolina. So every negative thing that's happened, they're ready to just blow it all up. Me too, you know. And now the narrative since Brady won in Tampa has been Belichick's never done a damn thing without Tom Brady. Well, listen, all right, Tom Brady did win in Tampa, so he was able to accomplish something outside of Bill. But Bill had a lot to do with those teams winning. He went to the playoffs in Cleveland when they never go to the playoffs. He went 11 and 5 when Brady got hurt, if you remember that year, like, so let's not all of a sudden make Bill just some positive byproduct of the greatness of Tom Brady. He's a, he's a hell of a coach. May not like him, but he's hell of a coach.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, his personality is what nobody liked. Right? Right. Nobody likes his podium game. Like, they didn't like the way he treated the media, the way he talked and arrogance about the fact that they were caught cheating, all those things that people didn't like.

[Don Rosenberg]

And he's been humbled.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, he has been humble. There's no question. And yet I brought this up yesterday, like I said, like, like he, he. That first game at North Carolina was embarrassing. They were absolutely boat raced at home in front of a, a sold out stadium. And I don't think that place has ever been sold out. And it was on national TV and they were embarrassed and so everybody just kind of walked away saying, all right, see, he's a failure. This is a mess. And in reality, he's 4 and 5, I think 2 and 3 in conference play. They won two. They won their last two games. They really have been competitive. Now again, it's the acc. So who are they really playing?

[Peter Schrager]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

But it doesn't matter. The roster's not very good. He's had to coach up a lot of things and figure out pieces as he's gone along with players he hardly knew. So he's making it work. I give that much credit to him. But we all know his heart's in the NFL and we all know that's where he wants to be. And the fact, I personally believe the fact that he not only took the question started with the on to Cincinnati Response and then stopped himself and gave you somewhat of a thoughtful answer. Tells me he's waiting for the call.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yeah, I just.

[Peter Schrager]

I just.

[Don Rosenberg]

I just. Nah, you're not wrong. But I just. I do think that there are a lot of people that have already written off Bill Belichick because that's the narrative they want to sell, because they never liked him. And this is his comeuppance. The arrogance, all the winning. Tom Brady won again after leaving New England, and he just seems a lot more likable. And Bill, I think a lot of people are dancing on his grave. And I think those people that don't want him to come back to the Giants, it's not so much because they don't think he'd do a good job. They don't want him to get what he wants. They don't want him to have his dream job.

[Alan Hahn]

What a story. We all know, like. And we, you know, Ian obviously knows, so he told us. We didn't need Ian to tell us. I think we all know. Everybody in New York knows. Those who have seen enough of the documentaries. The thing that he. And the two Bills, that was phenomenal to see those two together talking about their careers, knowing what the Giants mean to him personally, if there's ever a way to go out, that would be the way to go out to get this wayward franchise back on track. Whether or not he can win a Super bowl with them, I think is unnecessary. I think he gets them on track and set in the right direction. If he can do that, that I think for him would be as fulfilling as anything he's done since his last Super Bowl.

[Don Rosenberg]

I think you're right, because I think always we want the debate.

[Peter Schrager]

And I think if I show up to work tomorrow and lift up my shirt and have an eight pack, you both be really, really impressed.

[Don Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Peter Schrager]

But neither's gonna happen.

[Don Rosenberg]

All right. Probably not.

[Alan Hahn]

You're right. But it's a great story.

[Don Rosenberg]

But do you think the people that say he's cooked, he's done, he's changed, he can't be sure. Are they saying that because they believe it, or are they saying it because they want it to be true because they never liked him in the first place?

[Alan Hahn]

I think both.

[Don Rosenberg]

And they're really loving the fact that it's ending this way. Tom Brady making $35 million a year on Fox after winning a Super bowl post. Bill Belichick and Belichick in North Carolina and failing. There's a lot of people loving this.

[Peter Schrager]

Can't both be true, though. You've wanted him to lose forever. And the vibe you're getting is going out sad because that's how it what we say.

[Alan Hahn]

Peter, yesterday when we talked about, you know, Giants fans who want Bill Belichick because they think they're going to get the old Bill Belichick, right? What you might get is old Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick, which you might two different.

[Don Rosenberg]

I still think he can coach. And if you're asking for somebody to come in like Tom Thibodeau to kind of stabilize situation, I think we all admit if Bill Belichick was coaching this team this year, they're probably 6 and 4.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, the defense is better.

[Don Rosenberg]

And we're talking about a team that might, you know, be going to the playoffs and maybe doing some damage. And instead we're talking about a team that's 2 and 8 and just fired their coach.

[Alan Hahn]

But can he relate to today's play?

[Don Rosenberg]

I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

Can he get players to respond in his way, which at the pro level, you know, there are, you listen to there's a lot of former Patriots that didn't win rings with them that couldn't stand playing for him.

[Don Rosenberg]

That's true.

[Alan Hahn]

Only the guys that won rings love them.

[Don Rosenberg]

But, you know, I think, you know, trying to relate to players is a is a problem for a lot of former coaches. You know, do we know, you know, Jon Gruden who hasn't coached in a few years and hasn't won an even longer. I know he's working with Barstool and all the fans love him. Can he relate to today's player? You know, I think it's, I think it's something that everybody has to kind of deal with here and try to figure out.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to Badan Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Schrager]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.