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- [00:00]
Narrator
The Stanley Cup Final on ABC is more than a quest for the Cup. It's 134 years of putting it all on the line and the heaviest 35 pounds ever lifted. It's broken curses and broken hearts. But for those chasing it, it's everything. The only question is, who will take it? You just have to watch the Stanley Cup Final presented by Geico on ABC and the ESPN app.
- [00:31]
Don Hahn
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:35]
Peter Rosenberg
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
Don Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.
- [00:44]
Peter Rosenberg
Game time is brought to you by Telemardu Irish Whiskey. When it's game time, guys, It's public time. Just one local in action and the game is final. Yankees have beaten the guardians 2 to 1. Tullamore due the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey. During today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Nick's obviously the main topic of conversation and to join that conversation is J. Will, and he joins us here. Jay Williams on Don Hunter, Roseburg. How are you, sir?
- [01:21]
Jay Williams
I'm doing good, guys. Excited to talk to you about the Knicks while also potentially yelling at my kids by the pool. Be careful on the side of the pool. This is what you guys are going to get the real version of me.
- [01:31]
Alan Hahn
Alan, you know me, love this version of J. Will. Dad mode. Maybe you can tell us straight. Keeping the kids safe. Don, I don't know if you caught this morning. So Jay always uses me as a prop. This has become a thing now where I'm a prop. And Jay will demonstrate by. By using me in these ways where last week it was about, how do you stop Wemby? This is what I'm doing. So I had to try to walk around the studio and he was like following me everywhere today. I had to be a defender and he was showing how Brunson gets off a shot against somebody bigger. And just for the record, I am bigger than J. Will, so it worked.
- [02:16]
Jay Williams
I like the fact that. I like the fact that you leaned into the notion of I am Napoleon complex number one. And, you know, I have a whole height thing that I have a hard time dealing with. So I appreciate you as my brother. And secondly, I'm just glad we didn't break the studio, frankly, when you literally hit the light, the light lamp at the top almost when I was trying to be physical with you. Yes. It was incredible to watch. It was incredible to watch.
- [02:41]
Alan Hahn
So it's been fun, the demonstrating and all that stuff.
- [02:43]
Jay Williams
But.
- [02:44]
Alan Hahn
But really, I think, Jay, I'd love for you to tell our audience what you saw out of what the spurs did defensively against Brunson that had you so fired up, and you can't expect to see it happen again in Game two. What was it?
- [03:03]
Jay Williams
Well, I just. There were. There were a series of things, Alan. Like, I, you know, obviously, we all know how talented Jalen Brunson is. And also, you know, you and I talked about this multiple times about. We thought that Carl Anthony Towns, you know, that Wemby wasn't going to be guarding Carl Anthony Towns. We thought similar to how we saw in OKC series, Wemby would be guarding a guy like Alex Caruso, right. And kind of be like that plug gap in the middle of the paint, kind of serving as a free safety. And we thought Josh Hart was going to be that player to prove itself. So right out of the gate, where you see Wimby, you know, putting extra pressure on the ball, I'm asking, well, why Cat outweighs Wimby. He can just overpower him to the basket. In which Cat, making the right read, knowing how Cat is playing more aggressively these days, did that multiple times. So I'm like, why was that part of the game plan? A lot of the random traps that they ran into possessions, especially that one in the third quarter, I said there was miscommunication and just puts them in difficult rotations where McBride was able to knock down the shot. How many times did we see a guy like Champagne get targeted over and over and over again? And the lack of communication. I didn't see guards really yapping about, hey, help here on the weak side, send him this way. It felt like it left Champagne literally on island by itself. And by the way, like I told you, Alan, I'm crazy watching tape back this morning, the fact that he was sitting in the middle of the paint over and over. Wimby just not doing anything, arms down. Just being an observer on the court. Like, if you're the double team, go double team. If you're going to come and block a shot, be aggressive. I don't know if you want to call it wind or what, but I just saw lack of execution and lack of rotation multiple times. I think there's some big things that the spurs can really tighten up when you get into Game two after a day of rest.
- [04:53]
Peter Rosenberg
So you ask yourself, why do those things happen? You Credit the Knicks. Is it the fact that Knicks were a fresher team? Is it the fact that the spurs are coming off an emotional victory in Game 7? Like, how can a team that accomplished so much, 62 wins and then wins in Game 6 and 7 against the defending champions, have that happen to them at home in game one?
- [05:14]
Jay Williams
I think it's easy. I mean, I think, look, you're playing a team with way different personnel and okc. And, you know, as much as people say, oh, it's a new game, it's a new series. Like, we actually go through series. Like, you get pretty. You get locked into, especially a young team, guys, you get locked into, like, well, this is how we just started this team. Here's the personnel on this team. And also you find yourself in a new series, you're stoked because it's game one, it's a quick turnaround. So, yeah, you are. You know, your legs are going to be heavier down the stretch than opposing team that's played four games in 23 days. But also the personnel is different, right? Like, guys like Lou Dort, they're different skill sets. When you're going against a guy like Deuce McBride, right? Offensively, you want Lou Dort to shoot certain threes. You don't want district Bride to shoot certain shots. You don't want Mikhail Bridges to shoot certain shots. So rotations are different. Scatter report is different. What they can do off the balance is very different. And what you're going to try to give up. So all that for a young team, it feels very heavy just to transition then as quickly. And a quick turnaround scenario against a team whose personnel is drastically different than the one you last faced in the Western Conference finals.
- [06:20]
Alan Hahn
Now, something that has become a narrative, narrative, a topic of conversation really, off that game after it and into today, that several people are talking about, including Damian Wood. He's going to join us later in the show, and he's had this take as well, is that Carl Anthony Towns outplayed Victor Wembanyama. And what we've noticed is that Wemby in the previous series, like you pointed out, wasn't necessarily guarding opposing bigs. Didn't have to. Rudy Gobert wasn't an offensive threat. Chet Holmgren was Persona non grata. Like, you thought he would be a threat, but he wasn't. And eventually he's like, I don't have to guard this guy. I'm going to guard somebody else. And be the rover. Defensively, with Towns, it's a different story. Is Car Towns A guy that can neutralize Wemby in a series like this. And so it's not so much of a. Of an impactful player. Because the Knicks have a guy who can also make an impact at that same position.
- [07:10]
Jay Williams
A couple of things, Alan. Number one, I am in somewhat pain right now. I know he's already surpassed me. But it's safe to say Karl Anthony Towns is now the top player to come out of St. Joseph's High School. In the cups of New Jersey. I AM now number two. Andrew Bonham is number three. I was still holding. Once again, I'm number two. Alan, how do I get away from this number two thing against guys six, 10 and taller? What is going on?
- [07:35]
Alan Hahn
So Don. So Don J. Will famously. Player of the year in college. National champion. The number two pick of his draft. The number one pick was Yao Ming. So if you're going to have a Napoleon complex, Yao Ming's a guy that's going to ridiculous. He's going to make you feel that way. So Carthaginy Towns also went to St. Joseph. He was the number one pick. So that school, whatever they've got in the water, it's pretty good. Because you're getting number one and number two picks in the country.
- [08:00]
Jay Williams
There's a lot of 76 Chinese people out there, you know, and they're just floating around. And, you know, God forbid they come out the same year I come out in a draft.
- [08:12]
Alan Hahn
But anyway, the matchup, though, with. With Cat and with Wemby, like, how critical is that in this series as a potential advantage because the Knicks have a guy like Towns.
- [08:24]
Jay Williams
How are you? And I were talking about this today. Here's what's like, Cat, first off, has great feet. There are times that when you watch Cat play. I know. I've heard you guys talk about it. You want him to be tougher. It felt like you were watching the tougher player first off, between him and Wemby. Right. The guy that was willing to absorb contact, create contact and initiate it, and then play through it. And look when we start 2612 and had an off night. But I think this is one of the series that really exposes, like, the limit of Wimby's offensive game. And when he beats other players by dancing on the perimeter. As more of a perimeter player. Right. Not as a low post player.
- [09:09]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [09:10]
Jay Williams
And I think a lot of times, you know, Wemby lacks a back to the basket type of play. And I think we get a chance to see that more and more. Because he's just Trying to beat people on the perimeter and when you don't have a back to the basket move. Michael Jordan said this influentially. Guys, like when the team's trying to beat you up with pace, Michael will always say, hey, I rested on. On offense. And how I rested on offense was I rested through posting people up. Playing with my back to the basket doesn't mean you need to be like a traditional post player like Shaquille o'. Neal. But you can play with your back to the basket, look over your shoulder and make reads, turn and face and make quicker reads. And when we can't do that, and that plays right into how car athletes hounds wants to guard him.
- [09:51]
Peter Rosenberg
Jay, how did you think the game was officiated?
- [09:59]
Jay Williams
I honestly, I loved it. I always want to see a physical game. I think the spurs get away with physicality. I think the Knicks are. I don't really pay attention to how the game is officiated. I pay attention to which team reacts to it better.
- [10:13]
Alan Hahn
Okay.
- [10:14]
Jay Williams
Right. And I think the way the Knicks were able to react to the physicality and play through it is the reason why they won the game. And at certain points, you can't look for calls. You gotta. You gotta not expect calls, guys. And the team that expects the calls and doesn't get them on the night that they don't call it, you know, those are the teams that pretty much lose those type of games.
- [10:35]
Alan Hahn
It's such a great point. A lot of times we as fans will watch, and the first thing you're thinking about is the officiating. And a lot of it is because it's how the player reacts. Right. If the players don't react, after a while, you don't react either. And. And it's the mentally tough team. And that is something I think the Knicks are proving here as a guard, as a guard, that I'm sure you appreciate. Jalen Brunson. Not again to go back to the size factor here, but let's be honest again, Brunson is among the small guards. The criticism of small guards can't win as a primary player. That's always been talked about. When you watch Jalen Brunson, what is it like? Does it mean anything extra for you? I called him today on get up, the patron saint for. For small guards, because all small guards should be watching and rooting for him to prove that wrong and to kill that narrative. When you watch Jalen Brunson, how do you feel as a guy who played that position, as a smaller guy in the basketball world and dominated it.
- [11:31]
Jay Williams
And it's a very personal thing for me and I don't think a lot of people know this. I mean, Rick Brunson was my teammate in Chicago with the Bulls. And so I've known Jalen since he's been a little kid, six or seven years old. And the stuff that Rick used to do with Jalen made me feel so uncomfortable. Funny that I end up doing a lot of similar stuff with my own son Zane, who's in front of me right now. Like, he would bring him on the court and make him play ones with us. And you know, whenever a six or seven year old gets on the court, you know, you just take it easy. You want to see them shoot around and play. And then when Rick would get up, like Rick would rake on his arm. Like he would rake on my arms and practice. I'm like, damn, Rick, like, what? He's seven, you know what's going on? He's like, no, don't show him anything. And he would talk to him like an adult. And like this dude just would seem angry at times at his dad, but would play through it over and over. And the one thing that always stood out to me about him and honestly, like, I have a proclivity. I have a proclivity for little guards. I have a proclivity for little guards because it's hard to do what they do. But like, sometimes when you bring kids on the court before NBA game, six or seven minutes before, I'll always use for the Bulls. Like you would see, like kids want to be on the court, right? And then they get on the court, they're like, oh no, like, what the hell do I do? Like, I'm surrounded by 15, 20,000 people. Like, I don't want to shoot the shot. When I tell you this dude from 7 years old always seemed so comfortable whenever I would bring him on the court and he would take shots like he was in a gym by himself, like, he would do it. So all this stuff I watched from him since high school and the way Rick would train him and then watch him in college and then watch the way he would lead and hear stories from Jay Wright. Like, none of this is surprising to me because some, some people are just literally like they're forged in fire. I think Allen, if there's anything I can say, Dom, that's the only way I know how to describe Jalen Brunson. He's been forged in fire since he's been 4, 5, 6 years old and he's been around pros. So he don't believe that he can't do anything. And in order to be great, you gotta be crazy. And Jalen Brunson is certifiably crazy that he can play at this level and take the shots he can make. That's why I said to you two years ago, Alan, like, there's something about him that makes me. I didn't know if I was gonna be right, but like, he's gonna be in the conversation for the greatest Nick of all time because. Not because I say it, because he believes he is. And you have to believe it first and foremost for it to have a chance to happen. But the fact that he does and he's doing what he's doing. We may have the conversation when the Knicks win in five or six.
- [14:13]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, it has to be right. I know that you're talking about a lot of great players, but everything that they've accomplished. 12 straight wins, 11 of them by double digits. I've never seen anything like this before. Jay, I know you're a local kid. I remember The Giants in 86, they blew everybody out to win the Super Bowl. But that's football. That's one game. I've never seen a team just turn it on and just be this dominant for this long a period of time in the playoffs. Who else would you compare that to?
- [14:42]
Jay Williams
I mean, maybe like Alan made mention of the 2004 pistons today, which I thought was very much on point and kudos to him for that. I, you know, it. I don't know where this team will rank up against the all time greats. I think it's stupid to even have that conversation because I don't think we need to. I think this feels very much like one of these March Madness runs. And it just, it proves that if there's one of the things I love about New York, and I'm obviously from Jersey, but there is a grit and there's a blue collar attitude that, you know, I think most people don't associate with New York because you see all the fancy stuff and high rises and. But like taking the damn subway and walking 30 blocks. Because why wouldn't you walk 30 blocks, you know, picking up the trash off the street? Like, I lived in Brooklyn, like the neighborhood, like, watching out for crime. Like, there's a real, like, just work hard and do the right thing every day. And to see a team epitomize that, like, I feel like we're, we're the team that's playing in San Antonio almost. You're looking at this game in New York, you're like, wait, hold on. Like, this is like the team that's blue collar and just does all the hard work. And I don't know how you can't root for them. It's a team. You're looking at a team. And I said this before, like, I don't know if there's another. All the things I hear, and I'll shut up because I know you guys have a long show to do, but all the things I hear from fans every single day about, oh, the entitlement of NBA guys, I'm telling you, the money they get paid, they feel like they can just check out whenever they want. Or, you know, all the stuff going on with tanking and all these things are bad. Or the guy hurts his pinky and he sits out for a month and should we cut down the gains? None of that is applicable to this team. None of that is applicable to this team. Oh, it's about money. Or Jalen Brunson took less money. Always. Is it about hurting the pinky toe? This dude literally played through two injuries last night on his right knee and his left ankle. Oh, is it tanking? Like, they didn't tank. They continue to fight for it. It's. It's one thing after another that, you know, Carthage Towns comes home. All the things that this dude has gone through this year where all the. The memes of him and the fact that they fought through it. I don't know how you don't say. This is one of the most likable teams in NBA.
- [17:04]
Peter Rosenberg
It's crazy. I mean, the way they came together as a team and I know we were all shocked and it was the irony of yesterday being the one year anniversary when they let go of Tibbs and then they brought in the players coach. And that could always be dangerous, especially in the NBA. You know, let the players kind of rule. And maybe it was the best thing to happen to this team for that reason that they just are the right group, that they just knew exactly what they needed at the exact time they needed it. And that's just so rare in sports, especially in the NBA that could be such an individual star driven sport.
- [17:39]
Jay Williams
Shout out to Leon Rose and World Wide west for knowing that they had the right core, that they could believe in that core. And it's one thing to change the coach, if you're changing the core. It's another thing to say, hey, we're going to bring in a coach that can elevate this core because we know the standard of the core. That's different.
- [17:58]
Alan Hahn
That's it.
- [17:59]
Jay Williams
That's a different conversation.
- [18:02]
Alan Hahn
It's, it's, it's like the era of player empowerment sometimes makes people sort of shake their head because it feels like, oh, you're letting the inmates run the asylum. But the word collaboration was used after Tibbs was let go, as that's what they're looking for in the next coach. And again, a lot of times you're like, oh, here we go. You roll your eyes at this whole thing about collaboration and that's just a nice word to say we're going to let the players really make all the decisions. But in rare cases, when you have a high IQ team and a veteran team that's been around and kind of, you know, they get it, it can work. And you know, to this point so far, how can you say that? This just isn't up there with, you know, Joe Torrey when he took over the Yankees after, you know, Buck Showalter developed and got that team as far as he could. It's got that kind of feel to it. And they're three wins away. So, Jay, what, what do you expect to see in game two in the adjustment factor for both these teams?
- [19:11]
Jay Williams
I don't think you're going to see when the pressure caringtons, I think you're going to see him play like more of a free safety. I think they're going to try to get out of rotations and they're going to try to shade, you know, the fact that Champagne gets targeted that way. I think you're also going to see Dylan Harper play a lot more for the fact that he didn't play the last three plus minutes when they struggled to score a bucket was mind boggling to me considering the way de' Aaron Fox played. So I think you'll, you'll see a better punch by San Antonio and their back is against. I mean, this is a game, this game is a game that can break their back. And if I'm New York, it's all about the start. Like a lot of these games, like, hey, game two, you come out, San Antonio loses game one. Obviously it's going to be a fight down to the end, but for me, like, I look at this as individual games within the game. I'm trying to break you at the beginning, Allen. Then I'm trying to stay in the game and I'm trying to close you at the end. So I think the start is very important for Brunson to get early, them to take care of the ball. I mean, and Temple of The game is so important. When they don't take care of the ball, that's when young bucks find their way, right? Transition, you get easy buckets, you get rhythm. But game pressure is a real thing. Domino, it's a real thing. And the more game pressure you can create by a slower temple where possessions matter more and more, like it's a game of runs. Like that middle game you get into like the end of the first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, early fourth, like, just stay close during that period. But that game pressure gets real. And if you can get a lead, then stay close throughout the course of the game. And then that game pressure is when you make critical plays, you have the legs. The game two is the game. I feel like they can break them. And if they break them in game two, guys.
- [21:01]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [21:02]
Jay Williams
Like, this could be a sweep. Like, nobody's saying it. It just could be a sweep.
- [21:07]
Peter Rosenberg
Wow.
- [21:07]
Alan Hahn
I'm not ready for that.
- [21:08]
Peter Rosenberg
Kind of.
- [21:09]
Alan Hahn
I'm not ready for that.
- [21:10]
Peter Rosenberg
I know, nobody is like hearing it.
- [21:14]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. Oh, no, no. Nobody hates hearing it. But.
- [21:16]
Peter Rosenberg
All right, you know what? Go, go have fun. Jump in the pool.
- [21:18]
Jay Williams
They don't want to talk about it.
- [21:20]
Peter Rosenberg
All right, guys, we will talk to you soon. Thank you so much for this.
- [21:24]
Jay Williams
Appreciate.
- [21:25]
Caller Joe
Yeah.
- [21:27]
Peter Rosenberg
Jay Williams. It was music to Nick fans ears. They'd love to hear that because game four would be at the Garden. Boy, that'd be something else. Finish this up, 15 straight wins. Let's pump the brakes. It's only one game, but hey, he's talking about if they were to take game two, come back to the Garden up two. Oh, could that break the spirit of a young spurs team? That's why tomorrow's game is going to be gargantuan for San Antonio. Knicks lose. Hey, they did what they had to do, right? They got the split, they take home court advantage, they come back with some momentum for game three. Spurs down, oh, two. You just wonder, but you got to
- [22:02]
Alan Hahn
think, if you're the Knicks, your game plan is simply just stay in the game and see what happens in the last five minutes and see if they can close you out. Because if they, you know, it's a young team, if they get a little nervous, if they choke you, you know you have a closer, you know, you have your Mo Rivera and that, that's like, that's your strategy in this game, right? It's, you know, you want to deliver the knockout punch. Of course you do. But in a game like that, your mentality, because you know you're going to get their absolute Best they're going to be desperate. All the things you would expect a team to be when they're. When they're down 10 at home, they know they've got to win that game. The whole thing is, is just hang in, hang in, hang in. And then when it gets to be, you know, crunch time, how do they handle it? And can you steal another one?
- [22:53]
Peter Rosenberg
We've got Shaq coming up next, but we do have some Aaron Boone sound. As I mentioned earlier, the Yankees held on, beat the Guardians two to one. No judge in the entire series. Yankees ended up dropping two of three. Boone was asked to give a judge update after the game this afternoon.
- [23:11]
Aaron Boone
Nothing on air. I checked in the middle of the game. I ran in and asked and we're waiting on the specialist to weigh in. So that's where we're at.
- [23:18]
Alan Hahn
What are we waiting on?
- [23:19]
Peter Rosenberg
You know, what they're waiting on, Alan, is to just firm up what they probably already know. Clearly you know that I'm no doctor. I'm not trying to cause any stir. Have we seen Aaron but we haven't seen Judge. And the fact. But the point is, is that why would it take so long? Because you hear bad news and you need to get in a second opinion on that bad news to confirm that. You don't. You don't go out and confirm good news. Right. You just, you tell everybody what's going on and he's going to be out a couple of days and he's going to be back.
- [23:50]
Alan Hahn
Right.
- [23:51]
Peter Rosenberg
They looked at it. It's not good. They're getting a second opinion. Another set of eyes to look at it to confirm.
- [23:57]
Alan Hahn
Figuring out what to do next.
- [23:58]
Peter Rosenberg
And now. Yeah, but here's more questions about Judge.
- [24:02]
Alan Hahn
Who is the specialist?
- [24:03]
Peter Rosenberg
Pearl?
- [24:03]
Alan Hahn
What does he specialize in?
- [24:06]
Aaron Boone
Like, was my opening not good enough?
- [24:07]
Peter Rosenberg
No, I just didn't know what, what area that was. I don't know.
- [24:12]
Aaron Boone
Ribs, clavicle. I promise you, when we know we're going to give it to you. I wanted to walk in here and give you something so bad. I want it too.
- [24:20]
Peter Rosenberg
I love the OG I listen, that's. I have no idea. You know what I like this is why as much as you get on Boone and all that, that was, that was a genuine response.
- [24:30]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [24:31]
Peter Rosenberg
Sometimes you just wonder. Is all rehearsed. It's all part of the. No, he had to give you an update.
- [24:35]
Aaron Boone
You know what? I don't know.
- [24:36]
Peter Rosenberg
The are an organization that they are pretty much, you know, they understand you got to give something, but there isn't Anything to give because you guys are anxious to get information that I'm sure they're not anxious to give you. Because it doesn't sound like it's going to be good. Guys. How bad is really the question. Not if it's bad, because if he was. Okay, this is 48 hours ago, 72 hours ago. We know, but it takes time. If I get bad news, you want to go and get another doctor to take a look at it, and those doctors are going to get together, the specialist is going to determine, here's what it is. Here's how long he's going to be out. I would be absolutely floored if he's not on the il. All right, So I think that would be. It'd be retroactive to his last game.
- [25:18]
Alan Hahn
Buckle up, Yankee fans. We're going to lose. We're losing him for a while here.
- [25:22]
Peter Rosenberg
It feels like it. So in the midst of all this good news, if you're a Yankee Knick fan, this might be the penance you have to pay for what might be happening with your basketball team.
- [25:32]
Alan Hahn
But what does he specialize in?
- [25:33]
Aaron Boone
Oh, geez.
- [25:35]
Alan Hahn
Oh, geez. That was very Archie Bunker of mine. Oh, geez.
- [25:39]
Peter Rosenberg
Oh, j. Yeah, and then the flushing of the toilet, because I'm sure he's really aggravated about everything that's going on.
- [25:46]
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- [26:18]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [26:21]
FanDuel Announcer
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [26:22]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [26:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Spike and St. Pete, you're on ESPN New York. What's up, Spike?
- [26:34]
Caller Spike
Oh, thank you, boys, for getting me in. And Shaq was on the money last night. You know, he. He has some interest in Cat. Alan, I'll tell you something. I watch everything. You know that. And I'm not trying to blow smoke up anyone's rear end, but you guys were so on the money. And I got. Michael put me on the last call yesterday. 30 seconds. He says I should like the Nixon 5. And he went 5. I said, yeah, yeah. I think everyone got this wrong. I think Oklahoma City was their championship. I could be wrong. They were depleted, two rotation players out. But the bottom line to me was I said, I disagreed with Lubica. I said, cats gotta the big guy in this. We know what JB's going to do. He's the best closer since Jordan in my eyes. And I'll take on anyone to discuss it. I'll put the numbers up. But Cat, he took Wembayana to the backyard. There in the back of the gym, whatever you want to call it, he's faster than him. Remember I told you the series before. You disagreed with me and you were right about him putting his shoulder down and taking these guys. He's quicker. He's much quicker.
- [27:40]
Jay Williams
And I'll tell you one other thing
- [27:42]
Caller Spike
I noticed about Wembayana. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. He's a much better defender than he is an offensive player. And if he wants to shoot to three points, go ahead. Go ahead, shoot him. Big mistake by Mitch. What's the. Mitch Johnson.
- [27:56]
Jay Williams
Yeah, big mistake.
- [27:58]
Caller Spike
You don't keep Harper on the bench. Darren Fox has a bum ankle. He's chucking and ducking. He's not a good defender. Champagne. He's not a good defender. I know throw a lot of stuff at you. I think I'm right. And I think the other. I think the kid from the shooter from Florida, Vassal, I don't think he's a good defender. They exposed them. And God bless Josh Hart. You know, you got to give that kid like a carpet guy, you know, knee pads. Unbelievable how he gets these balls. You heard that average poster said there's no 50, 50 ball through him. 70, 30.
- [28:30]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [28:31]
Caller Spike
I was so proud of the team. They didn't play their A game last night. And I gotta go one more time to the zebra shirts last guest. JJ was fine on that with the officials.
- [28:42]
Jay Williams
He's gotta go.
- [28:43]
Caller Spike
Him and Tony brothers, they gotta retire, man. It's enough already.
- [28:46]
Jay Williams
It is.
- [28:47]
Caller Spike
You listen. I'm biased towards my guy, but it's enough with Scott Forsler. Brunson doesn't get a damn call. Excuse my language. And he was barking at him after the game. Did you see that?
- [28:59]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. That was something different, though. That was. We're still trying to figure out what exactly happened there on courtside with Jalen Brunson and a couple of spurs fans, though he wouldn't talk about it today in his media availability. Said he's not even going to address it. But clearly something was going on there. And there's some reports that the NBA is now investigating it. And so we'll see what the results can be of that.
- [29:23]
Peter Rosenberg
Spike's right. The Knicks didn't play their best game. I don't think the spurs played their best game either. No, it was an entertaining game. It was a fun game, like game
- [29:30]
Alan Hahn
one of the game. I thought it was a very physical, fun game. Eastern Conference finals. Game one wasn't a good game. Neither team played well. And then the Knicks stole that one and did the same thing here. So that's what they've done. By the way, Don, this is the first time in franchise history they've won four straight game ones in a playoff series, in a playoff year. They've won every game one. So they set themselves up the right way. Now, the last two times they've won them, they've had to do it in comeback fashion. But once you do that a couple of times, there's a confidence that builds up in a team. I just feel like what you're seeing is this team just kind of. They, you could tell. They just believe, you know, like, they could just tell. Like they just feel like, no, we, but we're on it, we're onto something this year, and a collective belief that they can do this.
- [30:19]
Peter Rosenberg
But it, but it's not coming from something, you know, some pep talk. It's coming from the performance. Like, why wouldn't you believe? You've, you know, going into that game last night, you've won 11 in a row. You've come back from larger deficits than 14 before in these playoffs. So that's when you have it like, hey, we've just done it. We don't have to make something up. We don't have to some feed off of some other team's accomplishment. Hey, this team did it. We could do it too. No, we've done it.
- [30:49]
Jay Williams
Right.
- [30:49]
Peter Rosenberg
And it was, like I said, Brick City for a long time for both teams. I think both teams will play better. And I know it ended up being a 10 point game, but that I would file that away as a close game, right?
- [30:59]
Alan Hahn
Oh, yeah.
- [31:00]
Peter Rosenberg
And because it was in doubt deep into the fourth quarter. And then the Knicks rattled off the 11 straight and they won by 10.
- [31:07]
Alan Hahn
Put it away.
- [31:08]
Jay Williams
Right?
- [31:08]
Peter Rosenberg
But you know, the 10 in a row, I mean, the 11 in the row, they were down by a point. So you know, they ended up winning by 10.
- [31:14]
Alan Hahn
So that was possession, right?
- [31:16]
Peter Rosenberg
So it was a close game. And I think all of these games are going to go the same way. I think you're right, you know, but that doesn't mean it's going to be a long series. I mean, but I think every game is going to be right there in the fourth quarter. Can't turn it off. You know, people got to get up early and that game went like 11, 15, not that late. But there's not going to be, I don't think one of those 20 point blowouts that you're shutting off midway through the fourth quarter. First of all, you shouldn't do that if it's the Knicks, because they can come back.
- [31:43]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [31:43]
Peter Rosenberg
But yeah, and on the side, I think they're two really good teams. These are the two best teams. I expect these games to be very competitive. And every time the Knicks win, it's just a, another example of why they know they can do it and why they should believe.
- [31:58]
Alan Hahn
And the Towns factor to me is a really compelling story. I think Brunson is a player that we've all kind of, especially in this market, maybe nationally for the first time he will start getting the type of credibility. Right. Because if you don't watch him enough, there's still the narrative of a foul baiter which even, and I'll tell you what, Stefan Castle maybe unwittingly gave him a compliment today when he talked about the difference between guarding him and guarding Shai Gilgis Alexander, the two time mvp because he talked about how he's a little bit different in what he does. And one of the things that stood out to me that he said so he said like that Jalen uses his angles more and uses pump fakes, says gets to his spots. And then he said this part, don't. Not really trying to draw fouls as much like that might be a throwaway line to most people. It wasn't to me because so many people still equate Brunson as somebody that is a quote unquote foul baiter that he's, he's not really trying to score, he's trying. And now two years ago, was he getting to the line a lot? Was he being crafty and using the officiating to his advantage with his, you know, he'd get in front of you and then he'd do what I used to call like the fender bender style. He'd stop and you'd run into him because you're chasing him, right. And now it's a foul. And they, they started taking that, if they officiated that out of the game. But I think if you look at his free throw Attempts. Here's a great stat for you if you take away foul shots. So points scored on the free throw line. Brunson is the highest scorer in the playoffs this year by a mile because he doesn't get to the free throw line nearly as much as he used to, but he still finds ways to score. So that what Castle said to me needs to be amplified so that that narrative about him can finally die. Because not enough fans around the league realize that maybe that was something he was doing about two years ago or so, where he was doing a lot of the same stuff that Harden was doing and SGA was doing. He's not doing it anymore, and yet he's still scoring at a higher rate, and he's still one of the most clutch players of this generation.
- [34:10]
Peter Rosenberg
Things are going to change because I get what the fans say. You know, you watch the coverage of the game, and it's Wemby this, Wemby that. I'm not being that guy where, oh, they love the other team. But this is a star driven sport, and Wemby's a star. He's a unicorn.
- [34:22]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [34:23]
Peter Rosenberg
My wife doesn't watch any basketball. And I said, you know, look at Wemby. He's the big. Which one is that? I said, who do you think? Right. The big guy. I was like, oh, my God.
- [34:32]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [34:32]
Peter Rosenberg
You know, like, you don't see that. And, and listen, you promote stars. It's always been a star driven league. But believe me, this is all going to change if the Knicks win the title. It's all going to change. And Brunson's image is going to change, and Kat's image is going to change. These things don't happen overnight.
- [34:46]
Alan Hahn
Okay, do you think also, like, it's also a sport, like any sport, star player, you try to emulate that player. And I've always said, like, Michael Jordan came in and everybody was trying to do the. Nobody could dunk like that. So you would try to do this hang in the air, layup stuff, right? A guy like, we're going to have him on Shaquille o'. Neal. You can't emulate him, Shaq. He's the diesel. Like what he. What he did in his prime, average people couldn't do unless you lowered the rim to 8ft or even shorter. So you can't really emulate. You can't emulate LeBron James, his power game and all that stuff. There's no way to really emulate Steph Curry. Yes. And unfortunately, a lot of kids do try to emulate what he does, and they shouldn't because it shows you why he's special. If there's anybody though, that like kids could watch and say, there's a star that I can learn how to play like, it's Taylor Brunson. Yeah, because he's just, he's a smaller player in comparison to the NBA. Everything he does is footwork and determination and shot making and craftiness. That's all stuff that you can watch, film and learn and be like that. You could play his game. Which is rare to say about an NBA star. There's so many NBA players, you can't really do what they do. Batting stances in baseball. Yeah, you can emulate them, but they might not work for you.
- [36:02]
Peter Rosenberg
And it's, it's very difficult to change your reputation. We're around this team all the time. We talk about them all the time. We're sold. But the rest of the country, they look at the Knicks and they're still trying to shake off, believe it or not. Oh, they're boring. Nobody wants to play there. The Knicks never win. Like, it doesn't change over a 12 game span. It just doesn't. And the same thing with the Spurs. The spurs are getting a lot of love based on the work of, you know, David Robinson and Popovich and Duncan. Because that's the reputation people think. San Antonio spurs, they think of that because of all the championships. Doesn't mean anything to this team. But that's. This team is able to take that reputation and use it to get the attention. Same way the Patriots used it in the Super Bowl. That wasn't the Brady Belichick Patriots, but it's the same name, same city. And that reputation carries. And it works on the negative side too. For the last 30 years, Knicks can't win big games. Boring, you know, and it's gonna, it's all gonna change, guys. Believe me. But it does take a long time to take a U turn in a cul de sac with a semi. That's the way it is. And that's what I think you got to live through. That's why this chip, if it comes, is going to be so important. Because it'll change everything, Allen. It'll change everything. How this team is perceived, how players wanting to play here. The, the image of these players come on. Like Kat didn't have the greatest reputation coming to the Knicks.
- [37:29]
Alan Hahn
I was saying that before, like, have you ever seen a player, if you, you put him into a culture and suddenly he like absorbed into the culture to where he's become like, mentally tough. And he's become somebody that has bought in selfless player, which he always had those traits. Like, even in Minnesota, they loved him as a team. Anthony Edwards loved him because he wasn't a selfish guy. Who again, a guy like Edwards comes in and you're like, hang on a second. I'm the number one pick. I'm the star. Who's this kid? How's he becoming the man? No, he welcomed him. He embraced it. And that is important. But so you take that selflessness, you put him into a team that has mental toughness and little by little, he starts to develop that realization of, wait, I'm, these guys care about me. These guys are around me. These guys are tough. This is how you do it. And the next thing you know, Karl Anthony Towns is a leader in the huddle saying really like, you know, spontaneously intelligent things about what the team's mindset should be in a moment of truth in the middle of a finals game. And all eyes were locked on him and nodding like, that's a different guy than they had in Minnesota.
- [38:39]
Peter Rosenberg
Still waiting on Shaquille o' Neal calls if he's not there, when we come back at 1-800-919-3776 at 5:30, we'll talk to Damian Woody. It's been a while. I think he's had plenty of time. Football season's been over to watch Napoleon Dynamite. I'll tell you a little secret. My kids have watched it since we've asked D. Wood about it. And then 6 o', clock, enn and 7 o'. Clock. Ty Butler, Don Hanna, Rosenberg, ESPN New York.
- [39:02]
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- [40:05]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [40:08]
FanDuel Announcer
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [40:10]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:17]
Peter Rosenberg
Let's get back to the busy phones at 1-800-919-3776. Nick's up one nothing on the spurs game tomorrow will be at stout beginning at 3:00'. Clock. Peter Rosenberg will rejoin us on Monday after his assignment out in Italy. So will the band will be back together on Monday. 1-800-919-3776. Let's talk to Patrick in Huntington. You're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg. What's up? Hello, Patrick.
- [40:51]
Alan Hahn
Moving on, P. Rick.
- [40:52]
Peter Rosenberg
Nothing. All right, Subi from Midtown, you're on ESPN New York. Hi, buddy.
- [41:00]
Jay Williams
Yeah, guys, do you think that Mikhail Bridges is gonna be another Boast on game 2? Is it worth him to be out on the floor if he's just a decoy of sorts? And do you think that the Spurs, Harper and Castle are even better than Bridges at this point? What are we doing?
- [41:19]
Alan Hahn
What are we doing? We're doing Subi. This is what Subi does. This is what he does. Yeah, Subi kind of does this throughout the station. All that. Just be negative.
- [41:29]
Peter Rosenberg
Why?
- [41:29]
Alan Hahn
Did you forget the clutch free throws he hit? Or how about the defensive plays that he made late in the game? Do you have to always have to just score 18, 20 points to be effective? Do you know basketball whatsoever when it comes to this level, championship basketball, it takes plays. That sometimes takes effort. Something that doesn't show up in a box score.
- [41:48]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, listen, we didn't get to do that guy because.
- [41:50]
Alan Hahn
Well, there you go. That guy. Congratulations.
- [41:52]
Jay Williams
You know what?
- [41:53]
Alan Hahn
You know what, Anthony? On the wall. Bang on the wall. Oh, on the wall.
- [41:59]
Peter Rosenberg
Interesting turn of events.
- [42:01]
Alan Hahn
Don't bring that. You don't bring that negative around here right now. Exactly. It's 12 straight freaking wins.
- [42:08]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, you know what? I haven't even brought up Jose Alvarado
- [42:10]
Alan Hahn
and how great that kid played.
- [42:12]
Peter Rosenberg
There's nothing negative to say about this team. But if you want to be that guy? The definition of that guy. To find the one. Put him on.
- [42:19]
Alan Hahn
Put him on. Never again. Ever. This is Lifetime.
- [42:22]
Peter Rosenberg
Did you hear that?
- [42:24]
Alan Hahn
Lifetime?
- [42:25]
Peter Rosenberg
Anthony Pusick, for the first time, has declared the band caller. Now, listen, I want it on the wall.
- [42:34]
Alan Hahn
So I can't stop the other shows. I could stop our show.
- [42:37]
Peter Rosenberg
No, I don't worry about that.
- [42:38]
Alan Hahn
We can't control the other shows. If they. If they wanted. If they want to have that nonsense on, that's fine. It is a lot like, I don't care if you are doing a solo show for four hours and he's the only caller. No chance.
- [42:53]
Peter Rosenberg
Listen, I can't control what the other producers do. But as. As a listener to the program Lifetime, bet, you know, if I'm driving around and I'm listening to Carlin and Bart, or if I'm listening to the morning show and I hear Subie, guess what I can do? I just change the channel.
- [43:08]
Alan Hahn
Change the channel.
- [43:09]
Peter Rosenberg
But if I'm on this show, I gotta live through it. No, this is how we put it away, man.
- [43:13]
Alan Hahn
Good.
- [43:14]
Peter Rosenberg
Up on. Up on the wall. If Anthony wasn't so busy, it'd be up on the wall already. But.
- [43:19]
Alan Hahn
Well, he's a little busy.
- [43:20]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, he's trying to check. Track down Shaq. And if this is Where's Waldo, it'd be easy to find Shaq.
- [43:26]
Alan Hahn
Right? We have Shaq. It's. It's connecting. Shaq, I believe.
- [43:29]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, we know where he is, and
- [43:31]
Alan Hahn
he knows he wants to talk to us. It's just there's the connecting part. There's a connecting bit of a challenge. Yeah, but listen, it happens.
- [43:39]
Peter Rosenberg
It was the thought that counts. Let's go to Joe in Monroe. That rhymed. You're on ESPN New York.
- [43:48]
Caller Joe
Hey, what's going on, guys? It's all good, actually.
- [43:50]
Jay Williams
Called in a few weeks ago about
- [43:52]
Caller Joe
fans, like, the last guy that just called in and good God. Time.
- [44:00]
Jay Williams
But I just want to talk about
- [44:02]
Caller Joe
the valve baiting quickly, because, like, the rule, I think, incorporates something along the lines of who creates the contact. And like you said, Alan, they did officiate a lot of that out of the game.
- [44:15]
Jay Williams
But what it seems to be like,
- [44:17]
Caller Joe
what I'm watching is that the reps are putting more emphasis on the space that the defender's in versus, you know, or the offensive player going out of his way.
- [44:29]
Alan Hahn
That.
- [44:31]
Caller Joe
Right.
- [44:31]
Caller Spike
So.
- [44:31]
Alan Hahn
But like, initiating contact.
- [44:33]
Caller Joe
Emphasis needs to be on the natural motion of.
- [44:36]
Alan Hahn
I agree.
- [44:37]
Caller Joe
A basketball move or whatever you want to call it, because twitches up, you Know, and like you said about Brunson, you know, he had that reputation and a lot of, you know, smaller guards do. But I think the frustrating thing for. Because I've been, you know, watching with a lot of non regular NBA fans in the playoffs and they're upset about, you know, like watching the SGA play and I understand because if you don't watch a lot of basketball and you see him just free throws all time, that's frustrating.
- [45:08]
Alan Hahn
Right.
- [45:08]
Caller Joe
But like Brunson, SGA doesn't need to do that, which is like that's what is so frustrating.
- [45:16]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [45:17]
Caller Joe
And yeah, I know what you think about that but and also quickly, just Kat's performance like last night and his performance against Jokic in 2024, that seven game series, he actually, you know, in him.
- [45:37]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. You know that. I'm so glad you brought that up. And I'm mad at myself for never bringing this up because it was something I remember when I was on get up. We had done that series and we were talking so much about that people forget. Minnesota was down 20 on the road in a game seven. Jokic was the MVP and Cat kicked his ass in the second half. They came back and Minnesota won that game like that, like. And they don't do that if not for Anthony Towns. So it shows you that he's had moment. And I remember thinking this, he's had moments where when he goes up against another good center, he doesn't fade. He actually loves that, he wants that. And so I think he relishes this matchup. Oh, you're the next face of the league, are you? You know, I was the number one pick too, you know, don't forget that. And I think he wanted to let the world know just like he also wanted to let the world know, let me be the hub of the offense. I can make passes. You don't know. I'm actually a really good passer. And he has precision and decision, as Clyde might say. And he's really good at it. And so I think he does pride himself in this matchup. It's a really great point to make that. It's not like he's never done this before In a Game 7 on the road, he outplayed the MVP.
- [46:55]
Peter Rosenberg
1-800-919-3776 We've got calls we've got to dive into, but you need to tell me about Amazon.
- [47:02]
Alan Hahn
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- [47:55]
Don Hahn
listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [47:58]
Alan Hahn
I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.
- [48:01]
Don Hahn
Here, more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.