Don Hahn (2:56)

How about for Aaron Judge? You talked about loud. Does he need to make a statement in October? Because it seems to be the one thing that's left for him to accomplish with everything else he's done during the regular season. Do you. Are you. Especially against the Red Sox too, which the Yankees haven't beaten since 2003 in a playoff, would you say, like you're watching to see, is this going to be the, the Judge October we've been waiting for?

Jeff Nelson (3:20)

I think all eyes are going to be on him. You know, obviously he's one of the best players, if not the best player in baseball. You know, you can go back and a perfect example is Alex Rodriguez. And Alex Rodriguez was always one of the best players in the game. And when it came to the postseason, he struggled. Aaron Judge has done the same thing. But, but Aaron Judge strikes me as a player that, that dropped fly ball in center field last year against the Dodgers. I wouldn't say haunted him, but motivated him to get to this point and probably will motivate him throughout the rest of the postseason as far as the Yankees can go. Does it, does it mean that he has to, you know, set a statement or. You would love to see your best, best player, your superstar come through. I mean, even the couple home runs that he hit last year were in mean games. You know, either the score was out of hand or it just didn't matter when he hit the home runs. But you would love to see him come through, especially like you mentioned, against the Red Sox.

Peter Rosenberg (4:22)

All right, lineup, no Rice, who's been hot down the stretch. Jazz not in the lineup as well, facing the lefty Caballero. No postseason experience. Rosario, only seven games of postseason experience in the lineup for Game 1. Do you like breaking from your norm strictly for the matchups of the Game 1 in the postseason?

Jeff Nelson (4:42)

Yeah, I think so. Crochet is nasty. This will be the fifth time that they've faced him and they've won all four. All four games that he's pitched. The Red Sox have. He's tough on lefties and you might you like to stack up the righties, and even the Red Sox have some lefties in the bullpen. So it almost keeps some of your better players out of the lineup. I know analytics is a big part of this, but when you're facing a gu like crochet, you know, I just watched school just carve up the guardians today with 14 strikeouts. So you want to keep the lefties. And Crochet is a pretty similar pitcher. So I like that you've thrown righties in. Yes. Rice, you would love to see him in that lineup, but the only place you're going to play him is behind the plate. He only caught Freed once this year, so you probably want the good, comfortable guy and Wells behind the plate because pitching and defense is going to win. It's one of the reasons why the Yankees, you know, got out last year and lost the World Series because they were a terrible defensive team. They didn't pitch well. They're going to have to pitch well and play good defense to win. So you need your better defenders in there.

Donnie (5:49)

So, Nelly, I've kind of been harping on this issue, but it just feels like over the last couple of years, Yankee, Red Yankees, Red Sox has. Has lost some of the judge that it had, of course, you know, 15, 20 years ago. What's your feeling like just generally about the buzz of this series heading into it? And do you think this could be something that truly ignites the rivalry in a way that we haven't seen in a while?

Don Hahn (6:15)

Yeah.

Jeff Nelson (6:15)

You know, it's funny, I just watched that the Comeback on Netflix, and it was. It was actually really good because it went back to.03 leading 04. And you're right. I think once they started playing so many times in the division, it like, watered down the rivalry, you know, and once the Red Sox won the World Series, it was like, oh, the curse is gone now, you know, that may have watered it down a little bit, but if you're a Yankee, if you're a player in that locker room, in the Yankee locker room, if you don't get up for this series and want to step on the Red Sox and say, hey, there's absolutely no way their Red Sox are going to come in here and beat us in our house, I think you got to have that attitude. I think it can definitely ignite the rivalry. The Red Sox, you know, maybe some people didn't think they were going to be in this position this year, but they've had their way against the Yankees during the regular season, and you don't want that to happen during the post, during the postseason, especially in such a short series, in a two out of three. So I hope that they take it really serious and say, hey, you know this. I know it's not Seattle or any other team. This is the Red Sox. This is some team in your own division and a rival that you're going to have to beat.

Don Hahn (7:25)

Freedon, Crochet tonight, two aces, two of the best in the American League going head to head. So what's. And you would know this better than anybody, what's the bullpen men mentality in this game?

Jeff Nelson (7:37)

Well, you know, there's no tomorrow. This isn't the division series where it's 3 out of 5. It's so important to win that first one. Freed has not done very well in the postseason. He's had some experience, but he's been hit around a little bit, even in last year against the Padres. Want to give up five or six runs in a couple innings? Crochet, this is his first start. You know, he has had a couple outings out of the bullpen, but first postseason start, the better bullpens are going to wind up winning because you're going to utilize those guys a lot early and a lot and a lot. The Red Sox have a good bullpen. They have Chapman at the end, you know, Bednar at the end for the Yankees. The bullpens are going to play such a huge part in. In this postseason, in this short series. And because you're not letting these guys try to pitch through their. Their jams, you know, if Free gets in trouble early, you're going to the bullpen because game one is so important.

Peter Rosenberg (8:31)

But the scary thing about that is that the earlier you go into the bullpen, the more arms you have to use, the more there's a chance there's going to be a weak link in that chain, you know?

Jeff Nelson (8:44)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (8:45)

And that's what's scary about, like, I wish they just let the starters fight through things more because once you go to the bullpen, there's. There's no going back.

Jeff Nelson (8:54)

No, you're absolutely right, Donnie. You're absolutely right. You know, you look at if it goes game three, I mean, the Red Sox goes to Giolito, they're going to have to do a bullp. You're talking, what, five or six guys, and everybody has to be perfect. And if Freed struggles and you're going to get him out, this is just something you're going to have to roll the dice. You got to hope that everybody, that Aaron Boone goes to that they're going to be perfect and going to be able to have to throw up some zeros. The Red Sox, the same way if Crochet gets hit. It's not like that. When you had Andy Pettit and David Cohen and El Duque out there, when you knew that, hey, Joe Torre had such confidence in him that you're going to go ahead, get out of your jam because we have, we're going to try to get six to eight outs out of the bullpen and you get, you guys, the starters have the rest. It's just not that way anymore. And it hasn't been that way for a long time, especially for analytics, the third time around the lineup, all these different things that they try to script. So, you know, you're just going to have to roll the dice and hope these guys come through and do their job down there.

Don Hahn (9:54)

Okay, so let's hear it. How do you feel about the Red Sox today? Do you still carry any type of, is there any carryover at all for you as a former Yankee when it comes to Boston?

Jeff Nelson (10:07)

Yeah, I don't, I don't like, I don't like anything Red Sox, there was, there was two teams that I was never going to play for once I was a Yankee and I'm sure they're great organizations and I don't have nothing, nothing poor to say about them, but I just didn't see myself wear a Mets uniform and I didn't see myself wear a Red Sox uniform for him. I was a Yankee, true and true. And if nobody else wanted me, then I would have been done. But it's. You still cringe. I think more because of the Red Sox. I'm kind of glad I wasn't here in 04 to experience that comeback that Red Sox had. But, but you still, you still love the rivalry. I still respect the Mets and respect the Red Sox. I think it's baseball and you love to see it. But I still, I still don't, I don't like the be on that hat.

Peter Rosenberg (10:57)

Talking to Jeff Nelson, Getting ready for Yankees Red Sox tonight on our air beginning at 6 o', clock, game one of the best of three series. I'm baffled by Giancarlo Stanton. He's been beat up, hasn't been able to play a full season. Clearly getting older, can't play the field. But boy, when the lights of the postseason come on, he just, he is just so like, how, how can that happen that a guy at his age with all he's been through come post season time, he's been as money as any other New York Yankee I can remember in a long time.

Jeff Nelson (11:29)

I think you can go the other way and say, okay, guys have tremendous seasons, MVP type seasons, and how do they not do well in the postseason? You know, he just, he gets up for this moment. Nothing ever bothers him. I mean, you look at the teams and guys that have success in the postseason, you kind of, you try not to treat it as any, any, any bigger than what it is. You know, you have to stay within yourself. You can't go out there and hit a grand, hit a grand slam with nobody on base. You can't strike out the side with one pitch. It's just not going to happen. And guys that don't have success, they try to make the situation way, way bigger than what it is. You know, I know it's just not an ordinary game. It's not a regular season game. You know, there's no tomorrow in the postseason. You can't have a mistake and say, oh, I'll get them tomor you might be going home. But the guys that just, you know, take it as a regular season game in a way and not trying to put so much pressure on themselves and almost just deflect the pressure, say, hey, it was on Carlos Stanton. Hey, the pressure's on the pitcher. It's not on me. You know, I always felt that, hey, the pressure's on the hitter. It's not on me. And when you take that kind of attitude, you wind up having a success. I mean, look at Anthony Volpe. Maybe he'll have a good postseason. He had a good postseason last year. Yeah, and maybe, maybe it's, maybe this is his time as well. And only tonight we'll see. You know, so these type of guys, they just, they just take it in stride and they don't put so much pressure on themselves. Like maybe an Aaron Judge.

Peter Rosenberg (13:00)

Does the sting go to the hall of Fame?

Jeff Nelson (13:04)

Well, what is he, 450?

Peter Rosenberg (13:06)

453? I think it was.

Don Hahn (13:07)

Yeah.

Jeff Nelson (13:08)

As an MVP.

Don Hahn (13:09)

Yeah.

Jeff Nelson (13:10)

Once he got a couple more years, he'll get over 500. I'm sure he'll get over. 500. I'm probably.

Don Hahn (13:16)

You think a ring, though? Probably does a ring. Cinch it like that's it, right?

Jeff Nelson (13:21)

Oh, yeah, I would think so. You know, you're not Ken Griffey Jr. That's never been to the World Series. I think, you know, he hit.600 and some homes.660 or whatever it was. So that was a no brainer. But with Stanton, I think I Think a ring would definitely cinch it. I think he's probably a Hall of Fame player. I mean, he's going to be a dh. There's. Dh, is in the hall of Fame. So I think he's. He's put up some tremendous numbers and, you know, I'm sure he'll hit over.500.

Peter Rosenberg (13:50)

Is this the toughest test for the Yankees going forward before. Before we get to. Obviously, Dodgers, National League is a different animal, but of the teams of the American League, are the Red Sox the toughest matchup for them?

Jeff Nelson (14:03)

Well, it's the toughest matchup because it's two out of three and you really don't have any breathing room. You know, it's. It isn't like, hey, we're playing in the best of five and we can breathe maybe a little bit easier. You know, once if they can get past this, then you can breathe a little bit easier because I think they'll have the Blue Jays and even the Blue Jays have their number, have their number during the regular season. But it's the Red Sox and it's two out of three. So it probably is right now because there's really no time to breathe. You know, it's. You don't want to lose game one, even though it probably still favors in some way the Yankees. But, you know, you're playing a team that they're in, the Red Sox, that they're not intimidated by you. They don't care about coming into Yankee Stadium. They don't care about who's across. They don't care about the pinstripes. And that gets a little scary sometimes.

Peter Rosenberg (14:52)

It's always fun talking to you, man. Hopefully we can catch up later on.

Jeff Nelson (14:56)

Yes. Thanks for having me, guys.

Peter Rosenberg (14:58)

Jeff Nelson, always a pleasure to work with. He's got great stories and he was such a. He's such a really good, clutch player for them. And he brought up a great point, like, and I've been saying, I think the winner of the Series goes to the World Series because I don't like what the Blue Jays are doing right now. And maybe I'm going to think twice looking at what the Tigers did. But is that Tigers or just because of who was on the mound for them? But the best of three changes everything, right? If you give him the best of five, there's no breathing room. Yes, they can come back if they lose tonight. But the amount of pressure on them to face elimination immediately. I mean, right. Right away.

Don Hahn (15:33)

One bad inning.

Donnie (15:34)

Yeah. Bad couple innings, and now you're talking.

Don Hahn (15:36)

About your season Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (15:38)

Yeah, so you can't.

Don Hahn (15:39)

But it's still better that they went to a series than when it was a one and done. Yeah, the one and one and done.

Peter Rosenberg (15:45)

Was because not only was it one and done, but the other part of the best of three is that what you had one off day, bang, you're in the playoffs, you know, and it's, it's incredible. Just start. You get one day to breathe. Luckily for the Yankees, they were home, so they didn't have to travel anywhere. But it's crazy. You're one mental day like, okay, regular season's over and then bang, you got to get into it. As crazy as the one game was, and I loved it because it was wild card and you don't want to play a best of five like they did back in the day, there was no difference between winning the division and settling for the wild card. It was a joke down the stretch of some of those seasons, but you least get a best of three gives you. But that one and done, man, that's just one bad inning, one bad performance, your season's over. And. And you know what? You didn't cry for these teams like the third wild card who finished, you know, 20 games back of first play. The Yankees have the same record as the Blue Jays.

Don Hahn (16:40)

Right?

Peter Rosenberg (16:41)

And the Blue Jays. And because of the rest of the American League not being great, they went from having to play in a best of three today to getting a buy.

Don Hahn (16:49)

That's the maddening thing. They are tied for the most wins in the American League, yet they have to play in the wild card because they ended up in a tie.

Peter Rosenberg (16:55)

But you think about that third most.

Don Hahn (16:57)

Wins in Major League Baseball in the season and they have to play, you know, like that's the part that is a little frustrating, but that's the way it goes.

Peter Rosenberg (17:03)

I, I know when you division and you could bring this conversation into all sports because they all play divisions and we understand the division rivals in, in the NFL, like the nfc, Giants, Cowboys, your commanders, Eagles, you know, Jets, Dolphins.

Don Hahn (17:19)

Should be seeded by wins.

Peter Rosenberg (17:21)

But you're such a slave to the division and you win the division and you, you're just given such a gift of, of, you know, the home field and in this case the buy. Like, would you just say, all right, forget about divisions, it's stupid anyway. Let's just. The best record on that here, Here are the six teams, one through six, six plays one. Let's go.

Don Hahn (17:42)

I'll propose the. Why can't the division winner be the tiebreaker if there's a tie. So if they got 294 win teams. Yeah, just go, who won the division? Okay, you get the division slot. So you get the higher seed, the 1C, whatever it is. But if you all have the same amount of wins, it's 94. You should be the 2 seed. Because it's like does do wins matter or where you place in your division matter? What matters more? That's this argument.

Peter Rosenberg (18:09)

You can make wins, you know, especially.

Donnie (18:11)

Receipt at the end. You don't worry about division placement but.

Don Hahn (18:14)

But the best winner could still. That. That breaks whatever the. Whatever a tie.

Donnie (18:18)

Sure.

Don Hahn (18:19)

Right. Because you want to put value on winning the division. But the amount of wins you have should still factor. Now it does here as the Yankees have the top wild card spot. So they get a home only.

Donnie (18:30)

This is the only of the. This is the only major sport that does this. Still no NBA.

Don Hahn (18:36)

NBA.

Donnie (18:37)

You're seated.

Don Hahn (18:38)

You're top. But you're top four. But your top four division winner. You have three divisions, but you'd be. You're still a guaranteed top four.

Donnie (18:45)

Sorry, you're guaranteed top four.

Don Hahn (18:47)

It doesn't mean you get three. If your record is worse than somebody else's, you'll be the fourth seed.

Donnie (18:51)

Got it?

Don Hahn (18:51)

Yeah. They did that because it was ridiculous. But like, like football does this. A division winner could. Could win nine games.

Donnie (18:58)

Oh, sorry. A division in a bad division.

Peter Rosenberg (19:00)

That's how you still have to play wild card weekend. But they get the home game. Yeah, like we have. We have seen the. I remember the Seahawks winning the division at 7 and 9. And because they won the division, they got the host a game against the Saints. So I think won like 10, 11 games.

Don Hahn (19:15)

Yeah, they won like 12 games because they feel.

Peter Rosenberg (19:18)

And the answer always is Peter, because you got to be able to keep. You got to respect the division. But like in the NHL I play there's.

Don Hahn (19:29)

Well, that system.

Peter Rosenberg (19:30)

They're going to go back to four games in your division. But I'm playing four games in my division, three games outside my division in the same conference. It's a difference of one game. Like I understand geography has us in the same division, but does it really matter? I'd rather finish whoever finishes the most points. You know, give them the higher seed. Why should you win a joke division and get the benefit of that?

Donnie (19:53)

It is. But in football, I will say you do get the exception of the bad NFC west or AFC South. We see that happening. But the upside is they have kept the divisional rivalries in football as meaningful. Two games every year. It really does hold.

Don Hahn (20:11)

Nobody says you should be able to. You shouldn't play this game.

Donnie (20:14)

No, but I think winning the division has cachet in football that you care about to some extent.

Don Hahn (20:18)

Not if somebody else has more wins than you.

Peter Rosenberg (20:20)

But here's what I would do. I.

Don Hahn (20:22)

So you had a higher seed just because you won your, your, your garbage division.

Donnie (20:26)

Right. Jacksonville took advantage of it.

Peter Rosenberg (20:28)

What if you did this? If you win your division, you're guaranteed to make the playoffs. Yeah, but I am not seeding you any higher. Then we're going to go to record.

Don Hahn (20:37)

Then we go to record. Now there's a huge record, but you're guaranteed to get it.

Peter Rosenberg (20:41)

Now that's not even. That's flawed because there could be a team that didn't win their division that has a better record than a division winner and they don't go to the playoffs and the team with a lesser record ends up going. I don't know. I just think the whole division thing is kind of, it's.

Don Hahn (20:57)

Well, just in the American League, it's.

Peter Rosenberg (20:58)

Starting to lose its luster to me.

Don Hahn (21:00)

In the American League still worked out the way it was supposed to work out. Nobody that didn't make the playoffs had a season that they could complain about. Right? Because the playoff team, Blue Jays and Yankees had the best 94 wins. Both had the best. Right. Mariners had 90. They had the second most wins. Then the Guardians with 88. And then Red Sox 89. And then the Tigers and Astros had 87. And the tiebreaker went to the Tigers. That's it. Anybody after that had nothing to complain about. So it worked out. But we're just saying the 94 wins, you had the most wins in the league. The problem was you didn't have enough wins against the team that also had the most wins in the league.

Peter Rosenberg (21:39)

And that league didn't matter either because it wasn't like there was a team that won the division that in a wild card team or a team that didn't make the playoffs finish with less wins. But I just wonder if the whole divisional play like matters as much anymore. And I know people freak out though when they were talking about maybe changing the divisions around when the Major League Baseball expands and that you might put the Mets and Yankees in the same division. People flipped out. So I don't know what people want, but I just think you want the best teams. You want the six best teams to go and be ranked based on their record and whether they won the division or not should not matter, but it still does in this case it didn't mean that big of a deal. But in a lot of places it does. A lot of seasons it does.

Donnie (22:23)

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Peter Rosenberg (23:19)

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Don Hahn (23:21)

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Don Hahn (23:29)

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Donnie (24:21)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don Hahn (24:23)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes you just can't take it anymore. This is let's Talk About It Tuesday and it's a really With Don Hahn and Rosenberg sponsored by BetterHelp.

Donnie (24:47)

That's right, it is sponsored by BetterHelp. Mental health is health and on this Talk about It Tuesday. We're also going to open the phone lines to you guys if you have not yet Gotten a chance. We've been doing all baseball and you have strong feelings to get in on the jets from last night. 1-800-919-3776. You can talk about it. You know, I'm going to keep it simple and I'm going to pass the mic to an actual jets fan. But man, I got to tell you, I had a couple of real moments during that couch cast which you could go back and watch right now on our YouTube page that you may recall of me just absolutely screaming oh my God, this team sucks. And I wasn't being silly or performative. It is even as a non fan, just as someone who lives here would like to see the team do well. They are defunct at a level that is so unimaginable at this point in every single aspect. Yesterday they were offensively they had a nice running attack with the exception of course Allen getting hurt. But you saw some effectiveness there. Justin Fields cannot throw the ball downfield as we were told. He cannot drop, drop back and throw the ball off. Time stuff, sure, that's how they get the touchdown, but he cannot drop back. And it really does prove my point that I've been getting towards over the last couple of weeks. Justin Fields was, for lack of a better word, pardon my couth, a half ass attempt at trying to fill the quarterback position and just seeing what you can come up with. There's nothing there. I know I have been a guy who defended him before.

Don Hahn (26:28)

There's not a lot it feels like whatever it is, it is, it is. It's not we, it's not, it's not trending higher when just is when the.

Donnie (26:36)

Dolphins would get the ball. And Tua obviously is not big. The best version of two over the last year. So completely a different league altogether. Watching Tua throw the football. And Tua isn't Josh Allen, right.

Don Hahn (26:48)

But when he has an open receiver.

Donnie (26:49)

He hits him and it's a spiral and it's in stride.

Don Hahn (26:53)

Yeah, it's Duck.

Donnie (26:54)

Defensively awful. Special teams not good. I was not impressed. I know I kept saying this and I was being silly about it, but I do mean this for all the sort of rah rah team we've gotten from Aaron Glenn. I hated his attitude throughout the game. The look on his face was defeated from the second quarter, guys.

Peter Rosenberg (27:16)

I think it hit him.

Don Hahn (27:17)

I think, I think it hit him. But the realization got to him.

Donnie (27:21)

Like cannot show on your face.

Don Hahn (27:23)

Like it's the, it's the Alonzo morning where you shake your head and then you're like yeah, because it's like, you know, look at us. Look at us. Same old Jets. Oh, that's right. They're the same old Jets.

Donnie (27:34)

They lost Tyreek Hill. They lost Tyreek Hill and then they could. Waller lit you up.

Don Hahn (27:38)

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Talk about a Tuesday. We definitely need this on a Jets front because a lot of jets fans need to talk about this today. And it's funny because I actually talked to several Jet fans today via text, in person, and it was all the same thing. It's like, why are we like this? Why are we always like this? It's this feeling of inevitability, which is why the Aaron Rodgers injury, when it happened, was shocking for a millisecond and then was, well, yeah, that's what we are.

Donnie (28:11)

What did we think was gonna happen?

Don Hahn (28:12)

Exactly. What other ending did we expect? So I just feel like that's where a lot of jets fans are today, is this inevitability of suck. And that's exactly what you saw, and that's what you saw on the coach's face. Who lived through two of the worst seasons the franchise has ever seen as a player, but then also was part of a renaissance because somebody took. Took charge and somehow some way got you out of the suck. But it was brief. I don't even know where to begin when it comes to the game, but I'm more talking about just the. The emotion of a fan. And you guys didn't understand it when I was telling you yesterday that I am literally dead inside as a Jets fan. I don't know what to do because I want to be excited to watch football. I want to get into it. I. It's just been. But how could you possibly have any faith or hope in this team when you look at it and you see, yeah, it's different people, but it looks the same. Constantly looks the same. And so all you can do. I have emotional abandonment right now with the team. I don't react emotionally to anything at this point. What happened last night? You saw us on the couch and the fumble at the one yard line on the very first drive. It was just. Yep. Like it's not even being mad anymore. Fumbling in the very next drive because the quarterbacks trying to extend the play. Not surprised. And then the. And then the kickoff one where everybody's like, oh, that ball's down the balls now. What? I say, no, no, that's a fumble.

Donnie (29:42)

Oh, you knew.

Don Hahn (29:43)

I knew right away. No, no, that's a phone. Oh, no, that ball. He might have been down. Nope, it's a fumble and it certainly was. Did they get any calls?

Donnie (29:50)

Nope.

Don Hahn (29:50)

The one touchdown, the great catch by Garrett, a slight push off doesn't get it.

Donnie (29:54)

Darren Waller were both feet down in the back of the end zone.

Don Hahn (29:56)

Yes, they were, but that's that, that penalty. Now their penalties, they were, they were so undisciplined. But that one. And then I'm trying to remember the tight end that caught the football and then got landed on by a lineman three seconds well after the play. No flag on that either. So it's not that the officials are against you. You know what it is? Even the officials are like, this team sucks.

Donnie (30:17)

No, bad play, bad luck.

Don Hahn (30:19)

Yes, but not even luck. It's more just. I'm not even anticipating giving you a call. I'm always expecting you're going to be in the wrong.

Donnie (30:27)

Right.

Don Hahn (30:28)

And it's just, it's. That's what's happening right now. It goes beyond Football X's and O's strategy. It is just something that is happening with this franchise. That is for a fan, it's like the disillusionment that you feel needs to be talked about because honestly, it's not even. I'm not even trying to be funny. Watching football on Sunday feels like I'm watching a different sport than when I watch.

Donnie (30:52)

Well, Don said this for years about the Giants and it's been both teams in New York, they have both played and particularly the jets, the most awful brand of football you've ever seen.

Don Hahn (31:00)

It's a really, really hard place to be. And I, God bless the ones today that are like, well, they have the Cowboys next week, you know, and they, you know, they can get.

Peter Rosenberg (31:08)

And it's like, well, that's what I, that's what I want that to be. My talk about it Tuesday is I feel bad for Allen and I get Allen and I. And I think that's the way every Jet fan should have gone into the season. The jets did not talk it up. They had a brand new head coach. They got rid of Aaron Rodgers, who was winning games with Pittsburgh, by the way.

Donnie (31:30)

That could be another talk about it, right?

Peter Rosenberg (31:32)

Because they didn't. They wanted to have zero expectations. They knew this was going to be a tough season and they wanted you to just be along for the slow burn, which is difficult to do for Jet fans because they've been burning for the last 14 years. They've been burning for the last 50 years. But they've been told, no, let's get a brand new head coach. We're not going to put a bunch of unusual expectations on him. And we're just going to really soft shoe this for a while until we begin to figure it out. A lot of things had to get cleaned up. You're not going to be able to clean up the mess from last year and the year before overnight, and certainly not in the first four weeks. Okay. And I still think Aaron Glenn could be a good coach. But here's the problem that a lot of Jet fans had during the off season. I think this team could win seven games. I think this team could win a game. You're doing that to yourself. There was never any reason to believe that. If you paid attention to what the jets were selling you, if you paid attention to how things have gone their entire football history, there was never any reason to be optimistic. But Jet fans, for whatever reason, want to be. Cuz they want to live on hope, which is fine. But the hope is more the red hope that we were talking about in Shawshank Redemption. Like, don't do it, man, because they're gonna disappoint you. So if you were sitting there going, I think this team can win eight games. I think they could be live in December. That's on you, man. That's on you. There was no reason to think that this was the one year you could have kicked your feet up and said, I'm just going to watch and see if this guy can coach and see if he can clean it up and hopefully it gets a little better and a little better and a little better and eventually be proud of the team.

Donnie (33:03)

It's a terrible place to be, but that's where they are. Not even a young quarterback to watch. I'm going to watch the coach.

Peter Rosenberg (33:11)

So your alternative then is to put false hope and false bravado into the season, only to disappoint yourself more?

Donnie (33:19)

They should have signed Aaron Rodgers for 10 rather than guarantee 30 to Justin Fields.

Peter Rosenberg (33:24)

And once they didn't do that, they were sending you the message, it's not about 20, 25.

Donnie (33:29)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (33:30)

Because if they sign Rodgers, then there would have been, hey, this guy played great in the second half of the season. And now they're gonna have a coach that's gonna be disciplined and now they're gonna be able to win some games. They didn't want you to think that they wanted a new sheriff in town and this was gonna be that type of year. But still you sold yourself and now you sit there angry at 04, which is exactly where you figured they were gonna be in the first place. But no, you thought. And they're still gonna think, Alan. Oh, you know, break here, break there. We could have won against Miami. We could have won against Pittsburgh. We could have beaten Tampa. We could be three and one right now. No, you're not three and one. You're owing four because your team's not any good right now. They're still making dumb penalties. They still don't know what they're doing. Eventually you hope that they're going to get it. Remember, he came from a program in Detroit where they won 1 in 15 and then eventually they got it. That's what the jets are trying to sell you. Now, I don't know if it's going to work out or not, but don't sit there and give yourself the false hope only to be defeated again like you usually are, because that's what ends up happening with this team.

Don Hahn (34:35)

Tell me again when I had hope. Because if you remember at the start of the season when you guys kept trying to pump my tires about Justin Fields and a new coach and you couldn't believe that I had nothing. I was feeling nothing. That's why I understood, Don. I understood there was zero expectations. I had none.

Peter Rosenberg (34:57)

But there were Jet fans that did.

Don Hahn (34:59)

Yes, but you're. You're talking to me right now, right? I was not expecting anything. And so where I am right now is not because they let me down. It's because how could it possibly look worse? That's my point, is that even in a year where I did not expect anything, I was not going into this year with pomtom nothing. All right? Aaron Glenn, former Jet blood in the ground, connection to Bill Parcells. All of it looked good to me. Fine. But I still am at a point now, with everything that this franchise has been through for the last 15 years, now you're gonna have to show me like, I'm not buying in Justin Fields guy on his third team.

Peter Rosenberg (35:35)

Well, that. That should sail.

Don Hahn (35:36)

These are things that I am not going to just suddenly just be all in. I'm not gonna blindly jump in and say, but I'm all in with this.

Peter Rosenberg (35:43)

No, But.

Don Hahn (35:44)

But as you've watched these games, and especially none more than last night on national television, Monday Night Football against your rival, another team that doesn't have a win, a coach who's on the hot seat. And you play like that, that's where I get. I use the word disillusioned. It's disillusionment. I know he's trying to. He's trying to turn the battleship around, and it's going to take. I get it. Totally understand. I'm going to watch and see. But I can't get emotional about it. I can't get caught up in it. But I can tell you that it is right now. Disillusionment. There's nothing else to feel. Hope, anticipation. None of it. None of it exists. That's emotional abandonment.

Peter Rosenberg (36:35)

Hope it gets better.

Don Hahn (36:36)

But I know I can't. I can't leave my team. My dad. You say when I was growing, I would get pissed off at the end of a season of something. He'd always tell me, like, you know, you don't have to root for him. He'd tell me like, you know, like, you're making yourself crazy. You don't need to root for them. There's other things you can do in life. And I just said, I. What am I supposed to do? I have to. This is the team. This is my team. And so I am not gonna get caught up. I am not gonna be mad. I'm not going to rant. I'm not going to get. If they win a game this year, think, okay, we figured it out. I'm not doing the moral victory thing. None of it. I'm just going to sit and observe and see if this does get right at some point. And I'm hoping the Detroit Lions thing that he's trying to sell to everybody. Look what happened with Detroit Lions. And you all laughed at us in that first year.

Peter Rosenberg (37:21)

But how did it go since that's what he's hoping.

Don Hahn (37:23)

That's what you're hoping for. And if it happens, God bless. And I am not going to give any more of my emotions to this franchise.

Peter Rosenberg (37:30)

And you should. There's no fraud. And I thought there was an opportunity to at least open it up with Fields to see what you got. They don't want to do that because I don't think they think he's anything.

Don Hahn (37:39)

No, he can't.

Peter Rosenberg (37:39)

They signed him as just a stopgap to. Until they figure out what they're going to.

Don Hahn (37:45)

They wanted to run.

Peter Rosenberg (37:46)

This may not be the draft where the next great. They wanted to run the ball because.

Don Hahn (37:49)

They know he can run and they've got two other guys that really can run. And that's what they're going to do. Run the ball.

Peter Rosenberg (37:53)

Run the ball. Run the ball. Just. You just hope. I know you hate that word. That it will gradually get better at some point to where it looks like it's heading in the right direction by the end of the season.

Don Hahn (38:05)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (38:05)

And that's all they sold you to start with. So that's all I'm talking. I'm talking to you. I'm just talking. All those fans, they told you that this was gonna be the season. They told you?

Don Hahn (38:13)

Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (38:14)

You don't want to believe it. Oh, I think they can do this. I think that. No, they can't. Now just hope that all of this ends up moving eventually in the right directions, the right direction. That the ship that slowly turns will eventually turn in the right direction. But I've got to start Legos, begin to build all the analogies.

Don Hahn (38:31)

Don't you need to see some. You said this about the Giants. You do need at some point to see some tangible evidence. The first thing that Aaron Glenn talked about was discipline. He brought referees into training camp.

Peter Rosenberg (38:43)

So far hasn't worked.

Don Hahn (38:44)

So that he called penalties in drills. How'd that work out? They still have that problem. I need to see something tangible that makes me feel like, okay, at least it's starting. It's different. At least there's the new sheriff in town thing. At least I'm starting to see a change. But this is same old Jets.

Peter Rosenberg (39:04)

Well, that's the scary thing is he's already cut a player. It didn't matter. There's. There are reports that they. Reporters could hear him screaming at the team in a locker room.

Don Hahn (39:16)

The locker room is next to the media.

Peter Rosenberg (39:17)

All right, so they can hear it. Let's see what happens against Dallas because if all these things screaming at the team, cutting players isn't going to work, then he's not going to work. But maybe eventually it takes. It is just four weeks, but just get ready. This is going to be an unentertaining season. You just hope that by the time they walk off the field in Week 17 that it looks a lot better than it does.

Donnie (39:39)

I just want to. I just maintain this and we got a break and take calls from the people.

Peter Rosenberg (39:43)

But yes, I.

Donnie (39:45)

What I didn't love about Glenn was he came in, you know, blank and vinegar, you know what I mean? And we know what his approach was. Yesterday was a sort of ish hits the fan moment. And it seemed like early enough in that game when they still could have won. He seemed resigned to like, I'm done and I'm going to scream at these guys after the game that I did not get the dancing down the sideline on a last minute block field goal. Aaron Glenn, I gotta. I'm fed up. This team sucks. Aaron Glenn to Don's point. I hope that whatever he decided to do there and did after the game translates to something on Sunday because if it doesn't it's going to get late early and you're going to run out of tricks pretty quick.

Peter Rosenberg (40:31)

Right?

Donnie (40:32)

And we talked last night and everyone said I was crazy when they said when could the hot seat start? And I said quicker than you think.

Don Hahn (40:38)

Yeah, I don't think it's you get to 0809 owner can't do that but.

Donnie (40:42)

Things get but now will get hot.

Don Hahn (40:44)

Where you're correct though is him lighting up the team behind closed doors but not at the podium is the right thing to do because the podium thing is all for show.

Donnie (40:56)

I totally agree.

Don Hahn (40:57)

But dude, come out in the podium, just talk like he had a very measured tone post game and even today I would have that's the right thing to do.

Donnie (41:05)

If it was my team and it's who I was pulling for. I would have rather have seen from him in the second half last night. Still claps. We're in this, we're fighting. Not a every shot. Go back. I still want you to do a compilation. He was staring at the gods.

Don Hahn (41:20)

The director cut to him a million times.

Donnie (41:21)

They said this guy looks despondent.

Don Hahn (41:23)

Yep.

Donnie (41:24)

Anyways, let's talk. The phone lines are jammed, but that's talk about it Tuesday. On this Tuesday sponsored by BetterHelp, visit betterhelp.com timeout today for 10% off your first month of therapy, this episode is.

Peter Rosenberg (41:37)

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Don Hahn (43:00)

See mint mobile.com thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Donnie (43:06)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don Hahn (43:07)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Peter Rosenberg (43:15)

Saturday, October 4th at Sports Illustrated Stadium. The New York Red Bulls take on FC Cincinnati with kickoff set for 7:30pm Start your matchup early with the going to the Boulevard at 4:30. Then enjoy the pregame activations, giveaways and live performances. Then at 5:45, catch the Red Bulls on the red carpet. Tickets open at 6pm or gates open at 6pm for the first 10,000 fans. They'll get a reversible Red Bulls bucket hat for your chance to win a family four pack. Enter now through the ESPN New York app. Just click the contest tile and submit your entry. Bring the crew and secure your seats@newyorkred bulls.com Plan ahead and travel smart. The Harrison Path station is closed Saturday, October 4th. Free shuttles will run from Journal Square to the stadium. All right, let's hear from you. 1-800-919-3776. Let's go to Mike in Los Angeles. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Mike? Hey, how you guys doing? Good, man.

Caller Mike (44:12)

Hey, Mike, wanna let you guys know, you guys, you guys are the best. I'm a former divisional football player. I just had to get this out. My brother, he's a huge jets fan and I had teammates, man, we played football. My teammate from high school played for a bunch of great coaches. And like, you know, we talk about a lot of the same things you guys talk about. So you guys keep it like locker room talk is great. And I think Adam Glenn, he's a defensive coordinator. He is not a head coach. And you can just tell like the first four games, you can tell when a coach, when he's all bark and no bite. And that gets the players and us players we talk about and we have plenty of coaches that are coaching on the league, coach all. You know how it's a portal and we can tell. And this guy's a defensive coordinator, he's not a head coach. I think it hit him yesterday and I think he Quit on his team. I think him cutting that kid in the beginning of the season, he has to try lightly because guys don't like that. Now. Guys can't. They can't focus up on a live scrimmage. They're not even formidable. If you're cutting guys for making mistakes, then you got to cut everybody because everybody's making mistakes. So I don't think guys in the locker room like that. And I think you have to try lightly. And I think I give him two years because he's a. He's a defense coordinator. He is not a head coach.

Peter Rosenberg (45:28)

The thing is, he's never been a head coach. See, this is the risk you run.

Don Hahn (45:32)

He's got to learn.

Peter Rosenberg (45:32)

When you're going to go in a rebuild, which is, I guess, what the jets are perpetually. And you bring in a coach that's never been a head coach before, so you don't know. Well, there's been a lot of great defensive coordinators that never turned out to be good head coaches. Ray Hanley was a good coordinator. Buddy Ryan was a good coordinator. Did not translate. Don Coriel, these are great coordinators that just didn't make for great head coaches. And you don't know. He's never done it before, but that doesn't mean that through four games, you could tell he can't do it. But there was a revealing moment when I was driving home, I put the post game on. I was listening to his post game. I don't know if we've got the cut. Rich Samini asked him, is this harder than you expected it to be?

Don Hahn (46:15)

It's a great question.

Peter Rosenberg (46:16)

And he's like, I wouldn't say it wasn't what I expected, but you could hear in his voice was like, it's a lot more. You don't know it till you do it right. I mean, you come in with these grandiose plans, and you saw how Parcells did it and you saw how Campbell did it, and. And you think, you know. And then you find out, A, it's a lot harder than you thought. B, the team's probably a lot worse than you thought, and it's going to take a lot more. It's going to take longer than you thought. But then it doesn't mean he can't get there. But you don't know. He's never done it before.

Don Hahn (46:49)

Dan Campbell went through it.

Peter Rosenberg (46:50)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (46:53)

And that's exactly it is. You got to see it. What I find amazing, because it was a great question from Rich, is that he answered it because you know, if you're still in that defiant, putting up.

Donnie (47:03)

That we've been saying he's less defiant.

Don Hahn (47:05)

Joe Football, he's a little less defined. I was built for this. You know, you'd get some kind of answer like that. But he gave you a thoughtful answer.

Donnie (47:12)

No, he's starting to be.

Don Hahn (47:13)

Tells you a lot.

Donnie (47:14)

And I mean this in a positive way. He is starting to be more vulnerable and like a human being. You don't know when the wind's coming, so you now better get human with people.

Peter Rosenberg (47:23)

And that's why I said it was basically performative. He tried to lay out a bravado, but none of it means anything until you go out there and you start winning games. And he's been humbled. I'm not saying he thought it was going to be easy, but he's realizing that there's a lot more to it than just cutting a guy or saying something or, or, or being mean and like, oh, it's a tough time. We're. This is a different world. We're not the same old Jets. Well, until further notice, you are.

Donnie (47:49)

Hey, listen, the good news is it's year one, so it's only a month in, right? And it's a month in. So even whatever happens, he knows he'll get the chance to try. It just starts as you're a head coach and you don't win games in a market like this. It just gets intense in a way that you have never experienced in your entire life.

Peter Rosenberg (48:06)

You know what's good for him is that eventually just going to get to. You're being ignored. You know, the Yankees are in the playoffs might right now, they're going to make a run eventually. The basketball season is going to start.

Don Hahn (48:16)

And the more they lose, the more.

Peter Rosenberg (48:17)

People aren't just going to pay attention.

Don Hahn (48:18)

And the Giants are stealing attention.

Peter Rosenberg (48:20)

You know what, Take advantage of that. Like, no, you're not on the microscope anymore. Nobody cares anymore. And now you can just get down to business.

Don Hahn (48:26)

You know, it's a great, it is a great point. Now they've got a Thursday night game, but I don't think they have much nationally. Right. The rest of their way, I don't know.

Peter Rosenberg (48:34)

That's it. And they'll be probably flexed out of anything.

Don Hahn (48:36)

It may be true. But. So that's almost the best thing that can happen for the jets right now is what I'm feeling is I'm becoming apathetic where I'm. I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm not.

Peter Rosenberg (48:47)

But no One face it, for some reason, and I'm already seeing it on social media, Adam Gase was 0 and 4 and week five, they played the Cowboys and they beat the Cowboys. So there's already that. Well, if we beat the cow.

Don Hahn (48:58)

Come on.

Peter Rosenberg (48:58)

Because again, they're holding on to something.

Don Hahn (49:01)

How did Adam Gase work out?

Peter Rosenberg (49:03)

How does anything work?

Don Hahn (49:04)

No, but I think the scary thing is because it's so hard to rebuild in New York, it's so difficult to do it that you almost need that cover of other things going on so that you're ignored.

Peter Rosenberg (49:15)

It's true. Because eventually people are just not going to care. You got to go about your business.

Don Hahn (49:19)

And I'd almost prefer it right now.

Donnie (49:21)

And that's the good news with no quarterback that has a future here, is that it's not like you have Jackson Dart. Well, now we got to watch every week and see what he does. He's not even really developing a quarterback.

Don Hahn (49:31)

Now I'm watching college football again. Okay, who's good?

Donnie (49:33)

And by the way, it's not a great year.

Don Hahn (49:35)

It sounds like Mel Kuiper's got his. His quarterback rankings coming. So we'll see. Thanks for listening to my Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Here more of Don Allen and Peter. Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

Jeff Nelson (49:58)

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