Hour 2: June Swoon & Let's Talk About It

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg

Hour 2: June Swoon & Let's Talk About It – June 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the annual struggles of the Yankees during the so-called "June Swoon," critiques the prevalence of analytics in sports, reacts to the latest hot takes and media trolling, and hits on NY sports updates including Knicks commentary and a hockey mailbag. The hosts, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, and Don La Greca, bring their trademark blend of candor, humor, and impassioned fandom as they dissect the current landscape of New York sports (with a notable detour into national topics like Caitlin Clark and the WNBA’s media circus).

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1. Yankees' June Swoon & Defensive Woes

Theme: The perennial midseason Yankees collapse (“June Swoon”), defensive miscues, and broader malaise.

• Yankees drop another game, defense falls apart:
  • “I could defend and defend and defend... but they're just not playing good baseball.” — Peter (00:43)
  • Discussion of Yankees’ sloppiness, referencing recent Fenway series and home mistakes.
  • Key Stat: Yankees allowed 20 unearned runs over their last 10 games (compared to 22 in their first 74).
  • “When does that become a trend that you hope a team has the conversation and locks in?” — Don Hahn (01:41)
• Numbers & Analytics Paradox:
  • Frustration over what numbers (ie., errors, unearned runs) are “supposed to matter” versus those dismissed by boffins.
  • “When you're married to certain numbers and then you pretend other numbers... don't worry about that stuff. As a fan, I don't know what I'm supposed to decide.” — Don Hahn (03:03)

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2. Broader Critique: Analytics in Baseball & Beyond

Theme: Analytics versus “feel” and leadership in coaching and front offices.

• Mets & Run Prevention Moves:
  • Mets’ offseason built for defense, yet still plagued by errors (Little League HR off Soto, Jazz Chisholm getting moved after errors).
  • “Guess what? You can't live with the errors.” — Peter (03:27)
• Season Fatigue & Culture:
  • Baseball season feels endless; teams and fans both lose focus by midseason.
  • “This is the time of year that baseball is like crawling to the All Star break. This is a mediocre league year... They're just making mistakes. This is not who they are. We know this.” — Don Hahn (04:36 / 05:03)
• Fan Frustration:
  • “So, as a fan, you're telling me that's okay. Good swings, good defensive players making bad defensive plays. So you're telling me, as a fan, what I'm watching, I'm not supposed to react to.” — Don Hahn (05:03)
• Numbers Flood: What’s important and when?
  • “20 earned runs in 10. That's, that's, that's a terrible number, by the way.” — Don Hahn (07:54)

Notable Quote:

“The conversation that doesn't go anywhere. ... Series to series, you can see trends. ... But the messaging that... it's like they dismiss things so easily in this sport, but yet they put so much focus on numbers.” — Don Hahn (07:09-07:53)

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3. Is Leadership Being Lost in Modern Sports?

Theme: Buster Olney interview and Jorge Posada’s “baseball is garbage now” remarks.

• Olney’s take on leadership:
  • “To me, the biggest thing that’s been lost in baseball in the last five or six years is leadership and the value of leadership and having someone who owns a room and can come in and help.” — Buster Olney (10:10)
  • Example: Paul Goldschmidt’s impact on the Yankees, mentoring younger players.
  • Critique: Analytics creates drift, loses the connective element in clubhouse culture.
• Knicks as a contrast:
  • If Knicks used analytics alone, they would have ignored “intangibles” of Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart (size, “heart of a champion”).
  • Their playoff run characterized by adaptability, not one-size-fits-all (“Not what the Celtics do. ... The numbers tell us it works.” — Don Hahn, 11:56–13:43)

Notable Quote:

“Use the numbers to tell you how do we attack them... but you don’t use them as how we only play.” — Don Hahn (13:33)

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4. The Perils of Analytics on Player Development

Theme: Analytics affecting player approach from the youth level up.

• Peter recounts talking to his son about hitting mechanics—his son parrots “launch angle” and the drive for HRs instead of basic bat-to-ball skills.
  • “Do you realize they would change Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs... to make them [home run hitters]?” — Peter (14:37)
• Don: Analytics dominates baseball decision-making more than any other sport.
  • “It's gotten to a point now, as we're learning with David Stearns. ... He doesn't talk to [analytics staff] directly. He doesn't take information from them. No feedback, nothing.” — Don Hahn (14:56–15:19)
  • All the “reasons we love sports—underdogs, stories—are being lost to formulas.”

Notable Quote:

“Now it is played on paper. It is played numerous times on a computer before they hit the field.” — Peter (15:19)

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5. Missing the Old Debates: Sports Radio and Genuine Discussion

• Nostalgia for real, debatable decisions (e.g., Matt Harvey being left in the game), lost now that analytics dictates every move.
• Now, debates are supplanted by conversations about third-time-through-the-order pitching limits (16:28–17:10)

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6. “Let’s Talk About It Tuesday”—Sports Trolls and Caitlin Clark

Theme: Outrage media & Emmanuel Acho’s WNBA/Caitlin Clark take

• Emmanuel Acho’s Viral Hot Take:
  • “The WNBA would be better off without Caitlin Clark because she brought all of the attention to the league that was needed and there are better players anyway. And now her being there is simply a distraction.” — Rosenberg, paraphrasing (20:11)
• Hosts’ Reaction:
  • Universal condemnation: “That might be number one [worst take].” — Don Hahn (22:31)
  • “You cannot make it make sense... you now will say absolutely anything to get reposted.” — Rosenberg (21:46)
• Broader Problem in Sports Media:
  • “This is why people hate us and think people who talk sports are yo-yos who will just say anything.” — Rosenberg (21:22)
  • Media and fan discourse becoming more divisive, moving away from what unites, toward “algorithm hustling.”
  • “Handing the man the crown... you now will say absolutely anything to get reposted.” — Rosenberg (23:01)

On Caitlin Clark’s Impact:

• Discussion that being the “face” of a league doesn’t always mean best player (compare LeBron, Curry, Bird/Magic analogies).
• “She’s the cash cow, she's the golden goose, everybody, how are we not treating her differently?” — Don Hahn (26:06)
• Balance: Protect star players without “damsel” narrative or unfair treatment.

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7. NY Hockey & Knicks Mailbag

Theme: Listener calls and NY sports updates

• Rangers trade analysis (Pavlov Dorfeo acquisition):
  • Cap relief for Golden Knights, long-term signing for Rangers. (31:16–31:44)
• Devils’ goaltending changes, cap management, rumors about acquiring Quinn Hughes for sibling reunion, and the story potential for three Hughes brothers on one team. (32:37–35:29)
• Knicks’ “second apron” and luxury tax discussion:
  • Can still sign own players, but heavily restricted for outside acquisitions or further flexibility. (37:58)

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8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When do the numbers matter? That’s what I need to know. When am I supposed to care about the numbers versus told, ‘Don’t worry about this right now.’” — Don Hahn (07:54)
• “Now, it is played on paper. It is played numerous times on a computer before they hit the field.” — Peter (15:19)
• On Caitlin Clark:
  • “She's the golden goose. Let's not be stupid here.” — Don Hahn (26:28)
  • “Handing the man the crown... you now will say absolutely anything to get reposted.” — Rosenberg (23:01)
  • “It is fact. ... I don't understand...why people have such a problem with this.” — Don Hahn (25:10)

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9. Timestamps for Key Segments

• Yankees’ Defensive Issues & Numbers Paradox: 00:43 – 04:12
• Analytics Debate & Leadership: 10:10 – 14:59
• Knicks’ Adaptability/Contrast with Celtics: 11:15 – 13:43
• Baseball’s Loss of Traditional Culture: 14:56 – 17:10
• “Let’s Talk About It Tuesday” Sports Tweaks/Hot Takes: 19:06 – 24:55
• Caitlin Clark, WNBA, and Face-of-League Debate: 24:10 – 27:50
• Listener Hockey Mailbag: 30:19 – 35:29
• Knicks’ Salary Cap & Trade Flexibility: 37:58

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Tone & Style

• Candid, conversational, sometimes exasperated by modern sports developments.
• Plenty of New York flavor, humor, self-effacing asides, and righteous sports radio energy.
• Strong, clear viewpoints with underlying nostalgia for “feel” and authentic leadership in sports.

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Summary Takeaway

This hour is a microcosm of New York sports talk: A passionate defense of the fan’s right to be frustrated, a stern critique of analytics’ dehumanizing sprawl, and a sharp eye for the way sports media can trip over itself in its pursuit of attention. The episode is threaded through by a lament for lost leadership, with a bright line drawn between stats for stats’ sake and the ineffable grit that makes teams like the Knicks and athletes like Caitlin Clark magnetic. The hosts debate with wit and lived experience what really matters in sports—even as figures like Emmanuel Acho chase algorithms at the expense of reality.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

Lamine Yamal steps into McDonald's, looks left,

[Rosenberg]

sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez, gives

[Don Hahn]

a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner

[Rosenberg]

with a FIFA World cup meal.

[Don Hahn]

Ronaldinho sees son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce.

[Rosenberg]

He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henry, who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with

[Peter]

a FIFA World cup meal.

[Rosenberg]

Participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026, McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026.

[Don Hahn]

This is the Han at Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter]

All right, so the Yankees lose again. And I could defend and defend and defend. Hey, you know, three. One third of their offense is out, but they're just not playing good baseball.

[Don Hahn]

No, they are not.

[Peter]

It is certainly a problem, and it's something that seems to happen around this time every year where they kind of just lose it. And you heard Aaron Boone. Well, these are the dog days. And this.

[Don Hahn]

Do we have him? Because his post games lately have been rough. Yeah, my guy, like just, just one of his, like.

[Rosenberg]

All right, you want to hear look away on the defense recently. You want this.

[Peter]

Well, I mean, really sloppy Thursday night in Fenway. I mean, that was sloppy tonight. You know, I mean, belly's as good as it gets.

[Don Hahn]

Happens an on the run throw that

[Peter]

I don't think was a terrible throw. Goldie can't quite hang on to it. So, you know, in and around, that did some okay things. So a couple really good defenders that

[Don Hahn]

didn't complete plays today.

[Peter]

But, you know, sloppies Thursday night in Fenway, that's.

[Don Hahn]

That's sloppy. He's not wrong. Everything he said there, right? He's not wrong because nobody looks at Bellinger as a bad defender. Right? But he, he had a bad moment, right? But they had a couple of bad moments in a game at home where after they had several bad moments in a whole series in Boston. So it's, it becomes, at some point, when does it become a trend that you hope a team has the conversation and locks in? You would think after a series in, in Boston like that, especially the way Sunday's game went, you would think, right, that you'd, okay, we're. We're home now. Let's have a little chat and this has got to stop. But it didn't. So as a fan, you get frustrated by this stuff. But here's what I don't understand with baseball, especially the Yankees, who follow numbers as closely as anybody does, maybe even as closely, if not more than even David Stearns. But what numbers matter and what numbers don't here? Yankees have allowed 20 earned runs over the last 10 games. 20 unearned runs over the last 10 games.

[Peter]

Think about that.

[Don Hahn]

The first 74 games of the year, 22 unearned runs. So there's obviously a bad trend happening. That bad trend for the last four years has been called June.

[Alex]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And I just wonder, when does that become something like those numbers are the ones that the analytics guys said, don't worry about that. That. That comes and goes. Don't worry about that. Don't focus on that stuff. You know what I mean? That's the frustration to me with the. When you're married to certain numbers and then you pretend other numbers that. That don't worry about that stuff. As a fan, I don't know what I'm supposed to decide.

[Peter]

And the other thing, too, and the reason I think this is a really good topic to bring the Mets into it as well. Everything, for the most part, that Stearns did during the off season was under the guise of run prevention. Meaning I want to be a better defensive team. Okay. And yet, did you watch last night? You spent all this money on Soto. They had a Little League home run. Oh, that was terrible. The whole first run. These guys can't field their positions. And how many times when we had Jazz at third for how long last year, but because you could hit, so you live with the errors. Well, guess what? You can't live with the errors. So they move them to second, then they. And then they go out and they make the trade for McMahon.

[Don Hahn]

Well, how about Jazz getting knocked out because he. And they can't communicate. Same situation is lack of communication.

[Peter]

But, you know, he hits, right? So it doesn't matter.

[Don Hahn]

I also think this is the time of year that constantly reminds you of the thing that Peter says all the time, this is how I'm going to pull you in, Peter.

[Rosenberg]

All right?

[Don Hahn]

Season's too long. And this is the time of year that baseball is like crawling to the All Star break. This is a mediocre league year, right? There's no great teams. Everybody's relatively mediocre. And so they're crawling to the All Star break. And then they'll have the. The same thing. The other side of the All Star break will be, yeah, don't pay attention to this next month until September. Then It'll matter.

[Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

Right. So it's a league that is like, what Boone keeps telling us after these games is, these are good players. They're just making mistakes. This is not who they are. We know this. It's never then, so it becomes, why does this happen at this time of year, every year? The reason has to be. Guys burn out, guys wear out. They lose their focus. Something goes on in June that causes this. And then on top of it, they start telling you, don't watch. Because as a fan, you're telling me that's okay. Good swings, good defensive players making bad defensive plays. So you're telling me, as a fan, what I'm watching, I'm not supposed to react to. I'm not supposed to get upset. I'm not supposed to have emotion, nothing. So I'm just supposed to sit there and go, yeah, well, I guess it's a good player. It's just not playing well. Well, it's an entire good team that's not playing well.

[Peter]

But it's costing them now because you went from being in first place in first place in a lousy league.

[Alex]

Right.

[Peter]

To now being in second place in your division. Three games in the lost column, back of the Rays. Last year, that little lull cost you the division. You finished tied with the Blue Jays. One extra win, you win the division.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter]

That series, you have home field against the Blue Jays, not vice versa.

[Don Hahn]

I don't think it matters, but I get what you're saying.

[Peter]

But still, they would have been better off winning the division than they were not winning the division.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter]

Then the year before that, they kicked the ball around in the World Series, lost in five. It's costing them. It cost them a World Series two years ago. It cost them the division last year. It might cost them the division this year.

[Don Hahn]

So does it tell you, though, Don, that they are literally saying to us, this sport is telling us that you really can look away. It's all right. This isn't really a good part of the season, and it's to Peter's point that he brings up all the time, is that the season's too long.

[Rosenberg]

Well, it's not that I say it's too long. It's that I say it's too many games. No, it's just too much to try to discuss it every day as if you're gonna have some great insight, like,

[Peter]

don't talk to me. We didn't.

[Rosenberg]

Right. And thankfully, because of the Knicks, we were able to check out for a while because we watch it every single Day. Right. It's a constant conversation that doesn't go anywhere.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But there are always trends to me,

[Rosenberg]

every month you check in and go, what's happening? I don't even know about month.

[Don Hahn]

But I mean, still, every series to series, you can see trends. You can see the next time the pitcher comes around, like who's been on a roll? You know, Cam Schlitler is the best pitcher in the American League right now.

[Rosenberg]

But even that, that's more than one series. You're thinking that that's over three series, four series.

[Don Hahn]

But you saw him start the year. All I'm saying is that there are things to watch and in on and also watching a team and how it develops and what's happening at second base and what are they doing at third. And all those things that you worry about when you get to October, you want to monitor it along the way. But the messaging that. I don't remember this, that it's like they dismiss things so easily in this sport, but yet they put so much focus on numbers.

[Peter]

Because I think the.

[Don Hahn]

So when do the numbers matter? That's what I need to know. When am I supposed to care about the numbers versus told? Don't worry about this right now. You know, it's. It's. These numbers don't really matter. 20 earned runs in 10. That's, that's, that's a terrible number, by the way.

[Peter]

They're going crazy.

[Rosenberg]

They're going crazy. At the All England. Serena won the second set, 7 6. Oh, she came back and now there's a third set, right?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. She was down 21 to start that

[Rosenberg]

Already getting their money's worth.

[Peter]

The Queen of England knocked on my. But did they.

[Don Hahn]

They love her, by the way, at Wimbledon.

[Rosenberg]

This is the queen. What was that? But that was an impression I did of the Queen of England at some point. Let me hear it again.

[Peter]

Apparently it's in the middle of the Charlene song. We can't find it.

[Rosenberg]

The Queen of England knocked on my. What?

[Don Hahn]

We were talking of England. What is on my door?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Peter]

What is the point of. He wouldn't. He wouldn't answer it.

[Rosenberg]

Was Michael trying to say, I don't know.

[Don Hahn]

He would know if the queen of

[Peter]

England was at my door. It sounds like he wouldn't answer.

[Rosenberg]

And that's me going, well, this is okay.

[Guest Analyst]

20, 21. Was that when Michael had to go to London?

[Rosenberg]

Could have been.

[Don Hahn]

Could have been. Okay.

[Rosenberg]

You know, when he got back to JFK and licked the floor.

[Don Hahn]

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[Peter]

off an interview that Jorge Posada did in his native language about how he thinks the sport is garbage now because it's all about computers, it's robotic. And here's Buster Olney on DNR earlier this morning. Is baseball going too far with analytics?

[Guest Analyst]

Well, I agree with it because I think there's a happy medium. I think there's, you know, to me, the biggest thing has been lost in baseball in the last last five or six years is leadership and the value of leadership and having someone who owns a room and can come in and help. I mean, look at the impact. And I know the Yankees haven't gone well of late. Look at the impact of Paul Goldschmidt. You paid him $10 million. He's coming in, he's helping Ben Rice. He's having an impact that way. I could cite you many other examples. You feel like, man, you're telling me that that guy who has that ability to connect with players and to pull them through doesn't have, I mean, right now we just talked about the Mets. Are they just going to drift through the rest of the season and the younger players are going to be by the losing. You need guys in the clubhouse who are going to pull you through. And let's go. I know that there were fans who were laughing the other day at Aaron Boone and what he said after the game where he was like, you know what, lean into it, baby. This is what we do. We go for the grind. Well, that was leadership. It was like you have to start turning the page as opposed to not saying a word, packing up your stuff and walking out and sulking about what happened. And that's what I see less of in the sport than I used to.

[Peter]

And you take a look at the Knicks. Yeah, they did analytical things. I mean some load management with Mitchell Robinson because of his injury, you know, they weren't completely bereft of it. But you know what? If they went by analytics, then Brunson wouldn't be the guy. Because the analysts tell you that you can't win with your best player being 6:3.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, they wouldn't have signed him because

[Peter]

we don't look at the heart of a champion. The fact that he won titles in college. It wouldn't matter.

[Don Hahn]

Why would you trade for Josh Hart? He's 6 4, right. And he's your power forward.

[Peter]

I didn't see the Knicks winning games solely because they rained down threes. If they had to, they got him. If they wanted to muck it up and get dirty, they could do that too. You made a great point about the three series they played before the final.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, Think about it. They had to change the way they played against Atlanta in the middle of the series. They changed the way they played and they blew them off the court. Then in the next series they played a little differently in that series. They used a little more bench. They changed up some stuff because they had to deal with with Embiid. Then they play the Cavs and the Cavs are taking Brunson out of it. So they have to find where Bridges and Anuno be start to become bigger factors in that they changed the way they played each series depending on who they're playing against. They weren't what the Celtics do, which is this is how we play. And it says we're going to keep doing this and whether it works or not, the numbers tell us it works. And Celtics fans hate that. So it shows you though they are the example of you can rely on numbers to tell you what to do, but they can't tell you how to do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, because that's the idea. Use the numbers to tell you how do we attack them. What can they. What do they struggle with. But you don't use them as how we only play. This is the only way. And that's why I always use the Celtic example and the way they live with those threes. It did win them a championship, but it also has cost them series against the Heat. It's cost in this series against the Sixers, which was embarrassing. They have to. And it cost them the series against the Knicks. You have to understand that you have to be able to play different ways and they wouldn't do it. And that's the same way as the Yankees. And the home run or nothing thing that drives you crazy, yes, it can work. And yes, some teams do win that way, but you have to have the ability to play different ways. The Knicks showed you that. But in baseball, I don't think you have teams anymore built that way where in this series the catcher can't throw. So we're going to run on him in this year. Like, I think the Blue Jays did that to perfection last year, did they not?

[Peter]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

I just feel like we don't have that in baseball anymore. Your son plays Don. Imagine if you had coaches telling your son who might be a guy that hits it, he's a great pull hitter and they don't want him to do that and they don't play him as much, even though he. He can put it wherever he wants, pull hitter everywhere he wants. But they're like, well, you know, the numbers say you need to hit it opposite. We need you to go here and now. Like, he doesn't play. Wouldn't that drive you crazy?

[Peter]

It happens a lot, you know, like I'm. I'm. Declan had tryouts this weekend and I was going over a swing and I thought there were ways that I could get him to. To hit the ball harder. And I'm talking about getting more of a level swing because he was golfing the.

[Don Hahn]

He was trying to hit it up

[Peter]

and it was too slow and I need him to get around. And he's telling me about launch angle.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, my God.

[Peter]

Because.

[Rosenberg]

What do you mean? What he said?

[Peter]

Because he watches baseball and he hears about launch angle trying to hit all these home runs. Do you realize they would change Tony Gwynn? They would change Wade Boggs, they would change Rod Carew to make them in the home run. They don't value singles anymore. So, like, the game has really. All sports have changed with the analytics in the NBA, with the threes and hockey and football.

[Don Hahn]

Baseball does it to me more than any other sport.

[Peter]

They've changed it.

[Don Hahn]

And it's gotten to a point now, as we're learning with David Stearns. I told you, it's 26 people in the analytics department. Yeah, eight of them. Yeah. Eight of them are called the data scientists. He deals with them. 4 Pro 4. And he doesn't talk to them directly. He doesn't take information from them. No feedback, nothing.

[Peter]

Yeah, because it doesn't matter. Heart doesn't matter. The Gipper speech. All the reasons we love sports. Let's be honest. All the reasons we love sports. We love sports because Wayne Crabette, you know, five foot, nothing can walk off a Hofstra, walk onto the jets camp and make the team. That's what we love about sports, the whole Rudy thing. We love the Knicks. Why? Because they're in New York. But outside of New York, you probably could gravitate to them because they were defying the odds. That's not. They didn't do a super team launching threes all over the place. They bucked the trend and they won a championship with it. That's what makes us fall in love with sports. The underdog winning, a human being doing things that seem beyond what human beings are supposed to do. We always hear the game's not played on paper. Now it is played on paper. It is played numerous times on a computer before they hit the field. And so there's no more feel, there's no more. What do you do in this situation? The sports radio was built on debating, should he have bunted there? And now all we do right all summer long is we hear about, well, you know, they don't bunt anymore. They don't know how to bunt anymore. Don't blame Boone for taking the pitcher out. That was figured out a long time ago. The higher ups do that. So we can't even complain about the manager's decisions anymore. They're not his.

[Don Hahn]

Remember the Matt Harvey thing, how we all had that? What a great day. Now, I know the Mets lost, but the next day was just such a great sports radio day because you could have that fight about, of course you're leaving him. Terry's got to leave him in that game. You got to give. But you can't give him more than one batter.

[Peter]

But it was the great.

[Don Hahn]

So much fun that you'll never have

[Peter]

debate, because it'd be like, no, listen, that's the way it is. First of all, you wouldn't even get there, because the third time through the order, like, even though you weren't rooting for it because you were a Yankee fan, you're a Yankee fan, you know, but watching Sonny Gray, you know what I was paying attention to during his no hitter? How many pitches does he have?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, of course.

[Peter]

Because now it's a race between, can I get everybody out, but can I do it in the allotted pitches? Because if he gets over 100 pitches and they go to the ninth inning,

[Don Hahn]

he's not going to come out for

[Peter]

the ninth inning because of.

[Don Hahn]

What's his name?

[Rosenberg]

The.

[Don Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn [e-mail] studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30. Terms at aka mscollegepc.

[Peter]

This summer, serve up the cookout classics, craft mayo and dressing. Toss green salads with delicious ranch dressing or zesty Italian. Serve smooth, craveably creamy potato salads with mayo. We all know it's not a cookout without Kraft.

[Don Hahn]

So good, so good, so good.

[Peter]

New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores.

[Alex]

Now.

[Peter]

Get ready to save big with up to 60% off brands like Rag and Bone, Levi's, Adidas and free people.

[Don Hahn]

Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more.

[Peter]

Plus, buy online and pick up at

[Don Hahn]

your favorite Rack store for free.

[Peter]

Great brands, great prices.

[Don Hahn]

That's why you rack. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes you just can't take it anymore. You're done. This is let's Talk About It Tuesday with Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Rosenberg]

Well, listen, you know what we do here? This could easily be that guy Thursday, but today's Tuesday. And Don said, what do you got? Do you have anything you want to talk about? And I went, what do I want to talk about? You know, what's getting my goat?

[Alex]

Oh no.

[Rosenberg]

Serena, by the way, won one in the third set.

[Don Hahn]

She's bad goats.

[Rosenberg]

See? Speaking. Well done there, sir.

[Don Hahn]

You know what I mean?

[Rosenberg]

There's another goat. We may soon have to hand the crown of most obnoxious Try hardy sports troll. The crown may have a new head on which to sit. It doesn't matter if the take is just completely insane. I'm going to say it. And I'm going to say it in a way that sounds so matter of fact and like I'm so smart that there's some merit to it, but there's none. It is complete nonsense. I would like to bestow that honor to the great Emmanuel Acho.

[Don Hahn]

Oh my God, yes.

[Rosenberg]

Who this week got on Beyonce's Internet as we know it and said out loud that the WNBA would be better off without Caitlin Clark because she brought all of the attention to the league that was needed and there are better players anyway. And now her being there is simply a distraction. So everyone would be better off if Caitlin and the W just went their separate ways. I have seen Emmanuel Acho on this trajectory now for the last year or so of like, hey, how far can I go? Like, how far can I push Just absolute nonsense to get engagement to make sure that I score another big contract at Fox. Because you see all the engagement that I get. You could call it algorithm hustling or a farming trolling, whatever your word choice is. This is why. And I don't know the man, this isn't some indictment of his human soul. I don't know. But when it comes to what he's putting out in the sports world, this is why people hate us and think that people who talk sports are yo yos who will just say anything. It's why athletes have these broad stroke generalizations about the media because they hear one person in a prominent spot say something that literally. We spent some time today on this, on Ebro, Laura Rosenberg, trying to figure it out. There is no sense to be made of what he's saying.

[Don Hahn]

None.

[Rosenberg]

You cannot make it make sense. There's no. So I'm not even gonna go into. There's no refuting it. I'm not refuting it. It's not worth any sort of explanation except handing the man the crown. You got it, buddy. You now will say absolutely anything to get reposted. And I saw so many blue checks reposting it with their commentary on top of it. Because it's inflammatory. It gets me annoyed, gets everyone annoyed. The same way it's getting us annoyed right here. And so you naturally lean into it.

[Don Hahn]

Piggyback.

[Rosenberg]

And that feeds the cycle again.

[Alex]

Absolutely.

[Rosenberg]

So then in, you know, in two weeks, we'll have another one.

[Don Hahn]

Like, no, no. I'll tell you what, though.

[Rosenberg]

The league would be better off if LeBron James just stayed retired or whatever the next thing will be.

[Don Hahn]

We have seen, though, really, really stupid takes, like bad ones. That might be number one.

[Rosenberg]

I know.

[Don Hahn]

I can't think of one.

[Rosenberg]

Don. It could beg a top five when

[Don Hahn]

it comes to sports. Takes that someone is saying with some level of seriousness. Because there's always people that say silly things. Right? Like, you know, they don't really mean it.

[Alex]

No.

[Rosenberg]

Off the cuff, like.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, yeah, but I'm talking about like somebody that was saying with his Chest.

[Rosenberg]

No, he said no. He. He sat down, stared into the camera and backed it up with, like, information like he thought he had.

[Don Hahn]

That. That. That's easily the worst take you could possibly have. It makes no sense. You can't argue it because there's no valid argument to be made. And then on top of screams desperation of hear me. Because you know this is stupid. So it's. It's the desperate scream of hear me. And then I'm gonna say something stupid that's gonna piss you off and make you react, which is what we're doing right now. Right.

[Rosenberg]

We're doing. We're falling for it.

[Don Hahn]

But it also, to me, it just creates more. What I don't like about takes like this one especially because we all know it's polarizing, is that as the. As we get further and further away from a beautiful championship that has united people, we are now back to what are we doing? Dividing people.

[Alex]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

With us, with our sports.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, with using sports.

[Don Hahn]

We are using sports.

[Rosenberg]

Although I will say this unified. Oh, I am literally on the same side of this as, like, outkick.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Rosenberg]

Like, everybody. I don't think I saw everybody says this is stupid. People who sort of lean one way because I saw everyone was like, this is insane.

[Guest Analyst]

I saw.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know who it is, but I saw somebody say that Asia Wilson is the face of the WNBA now. She's been the MVP for, like, a million years. Right. She's the best player in the league. No question. Face.

[Rosenberg]

Right. You're saying the face is Caitlin. No matter what, because of fame, because

[Don Hahn]

of just the attention isn't face of a league beyond talent. We've already argued this box office, who draws. Who's got the most, like, attention.

[Guest Analyst]

Draw.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

I mean, you could say in the NBA, I mean, LeBron James is still

[Peter]

the face of the league. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And Steph Curry.

[Rosenberg]

And neither is a top five player in the league at this point.

[Don Hahn]

That's what I mean. So when you say face league, it's not the best player. It's who is drawing attention to the league. Who is the most valuable marketable piece that the league has.

[Peter]

Just look at the ratings bringing attention. They showed an example of a game that she played against one of the expansion teams, and it did, like, 1.3 million viewers. So really, is anybody asking who's the best player? Who is the most watchable player?

[Don Hahn]

And that's the point, though. I don't understand, and maybe I do, but I don't want to admit it publicly why people have such A problem with this. It is fact.

[Rosenberg]

But who does.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, anybody that's saying it's better for the league that she's not in it. So the league that got an unbelievable amount of attention, ratings, revenue, a new deal that the players are making more money. I'm sorry. It's not coincidence that when she went from being a college phenomenon to a rookie in the league and everybody now is really tuned into that. It is. It's equivalent to bird and magic for sure.

[Rosenberg]

For the NBA to ignore it here

[Don Hahn]

and just say like, she doesn't deserve that much attention. She's getting it whether she deserves it or not. This is why the other day I said it's very similar to linsanity, but linsanity only lasted two weeks. But it was something that was. You couldn't. You couldn't deny it.

[Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

And the same thing with her. You can't deny it. That's a reality. And I don't know why some people in the media and maybe even some players. You heard Sophie Cunningham, the way she's talked about it, how things that they're doing to her. When you understand, like she's the cash cow, she's the golden goose, everybody, how are we not treating her differently? And that's fair. Now, if I'm Caitlin Clark, I don't want to be treated differently.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, I think that's stupid too.

[Don Hahn]

But I also think on the outside people need to understand that is the golden goose. Let's not be stupid here.

[Rosenberg]

But. But for the record. And then, you know, going back to the thing that happened last week, they ended up assessing a flagrant to.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Suspended a game.

[Rosenberg]

That is doing more than what everyone's saying should be done. I watch it back. I don't think it was a flagrant. I think. I think it's a basketball.

[Don Hahn]

It should have simply just been maybe a flag one.

[Rosenberg]

And then.

[Don Hahn]

And just. But because they missed it and people don't understand why, how an official could miss that. But even Sophie said, as players, we didn't see it.

[Rosenberg]

No, you wouldn't know because the game's happening and it wasn't. It wasn't some sort of fight. It wasn't a crazy thing. It was just a fall extra p to someone who's a starvation.

[Don Hahn]

But they think the officials all were like looking this way because everybody's got it out for Caitlin Clark, which again, I remind you, she is the golden goose. No one should be treating her as if you know what, she's going to get hit. We're going to look the other way. She deserves it. Well, she deserves it. And don't show me video of her doing her own things where she's being extra physical. She's small. She's got to be. She's got to be feisty. He'll tell me Brunson doesn't throw elbows. Brunson doesn't do stuff. Yeah, he does it because he has to.

[Rosenberg]

But I also don't think it should be gone the other. It shouldn't go the other way either. She should be called down the middle. I don't think you need to protect her again. People treat her like she's this damsel in distress.

[Don Hahn]

Also, player, I don't want preferential treatment.

[Rosenberg]

Of course not.

[Don Hahn]

I want to be treated just like everybody else is treated. But it doesn't mean, though, from the outside, not her thinking this. Everybody else that is close to her going, guys, let's also keep in mind what she means for this league. Let's not be stupid.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, but that can't get into the mind of referees. Not referees, other players. Oh, you're saying, hey, in general, she's helping all of our media, right? Right now, I do want to give an honorable mention to the great Boomer Esiason, who last week, I thought had the worst take possible when he said Caitlin should leave the league and play somewhere else because they're not getting protected. I thought that was as bad a Caitlin take as you could have. And then kudos to Emmanuellachu who said, sir Boomer, enjoy this Miller Light. I'm gonna say the league doesn't even need Caitlin Clark, and they're better off without her. So that is my talk about it Tuesday.

[Don Hahn]

Pretty good.

[Peter]

I like. Very, very good. And we're live from the living room

[Rosenberg]

as Doug eyes up the mach, say, spread. He's reaching for the buffalo wing.

[Alex]

Perfect.

[Don Hahn]

Hang on.

[Rosenberg]

What's this? Oh, he's gone for a can of Pepsi too.

[Peter]

Incredible. What a finish.

[Rosenberg]

Sensational combination. Look at the delight on his face. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a pack of Pepsi. Zero sugar for today's match. It's poetry in motion.

[Don Hahn]

Whatever your thing, it could be anything. Canva helps you make that thing a thing. Canva is a simple online tool thing. It's a way to design, with our magic AI tool, things you can social media your thing, generate images or videos of your thing, make decks or presentations to show your thing, whatever needs to be done for your thing. Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing Canva. The thing that makes anything a thing. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses. Setup required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter]

1-800-919-3776. Alex in Lynnbrook. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, man?

[Alex]

Oh, hi, Don. Wanna talk about hockey?

[Peter]

Sure.

[Alex]

Okay, so let me first say this. The analysts and the commentators there, the two men, two women, they were very, you know, fun and enthusiastic and, you know, usually fall asleep, but they were entertaining. The reason I bring that up is. So they said about a Rangers trade, we got Pavlov, Dorfeo. I'm sorry.

[Peter]

It's okay.

[Don Hahn]

All good.

[Alex]

And I looked it up. I looked him up. He's dangerous on the power play. He's great variability. He's 25 and they got him from the Golden Knight. The only thing I had to give up was the 26 pick and then their pick or two picks, like 27, 28. They were praising the Gold Knight about what they did. What I'm saying to myself, what am I missing? Like, what am I.

[Peter]

What you're missing, Alex, is that they're up against the cap. He wants a contract extension. They can't give it to him. He's going to walk as a free agent at the end of next year. So the logic is, let's get something for him. Let's get some picks rather than this guy walking for nothing. And what do the Rangers do? Turned around, gave him a seven year contract. So that's why the Golden Knights were being praised. They could have tried to make it work. Lose him for nothing. That's what happens at a capsule.

[Don Hahn]

They got something for him.

[Peter]

Yeah. And I think that's on that note.

[Don Hahn]

Don.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Jacob Markstrom being traded. Your thoughts?

[Peter]

Well, listen, I just gave him a contract extension. He had a terrible year. I like Jacob a lot. I think he's a good guy.

[Don Hahn]

But he used to mess with you a lot, right?

[Peter]

Listen, he was the first guy when I went to camp that was. Knew my origin story about being a fan and we always got along. But from a professional level, I think they can do better. And they got out of his contract. They go out and they get a guy, Evan Rodriguez, who was all over the Panthers two cups. And what the Devils have to do is they've got to get better in the bottom six. They've got it. They've got to get a fourth line that can be productive, a third line that could be productive. He's going to help there. And Boquist comes back. So now you've got two guys that can fill out two of the bottom six that they have and that's. And they get money back in return.

[Don Hahn]

You're saving money, you're getting depth, which is valuable. But now what do you do at goalie?

[Peter]

Well, right now there's no way I could think they can go with Allen and. Yeah. So you're hearing Connor Hellebach, who's 33. He's going to demand the big contract. Devils do have room or do they go someplace else for a goaltender? What is Bobrovsky going to do?

[Don Hahn]

That's his.

[Peter]

Well, you know Bobrovsky's going to be available. If he's willing a pay cut, he can stay in Florida. What is he, 30, 38 years old? You can't give him a big contract. You can't really shouldn't be giving any big contracts to goalies, but especially ones that are only going to be around for a couple of more years. So does he take the discount? Clearly getting Markstrom and Schmid tells me they're going to move on from Bobrovsky. So will Bob Bobrovsky take less money to go someplace to be competitive, to have a chance to win again? That'll be interesting. How much of a pay cut he's going to be willing to take every agency they need a goaltender and they're good enough to win.

[Don Hahn]

Right now, you know, Edmonton seems like

[Peter]

the perfect place, so. But that's the next question. Who is going to be the Devil's next goaltender? I hope it's neither of the two guys that were just mentioned that she loves Skinner. I think you know, Skinner's got a lot of potential.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I bet.

[Peter]

Let Pittsburgh have to worry about that. But that's the big thing. But right now Sonny's being praised. So they. They're very happy that Fitz lost his job. Fitz gave Markstrom a two year contract extension. Didn't have a great year.

[Don Hahn]

Interesting though. Nemetch gone, Markstrom gone.

[Peter]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Get some depth. Still gotta see what the blue line's gonna look like. And now goaltending. So Sonny's got a lot more work

[Peter]

to do with a lot more work to do. And is this freeing up to either get Quinn Hughes in a trade or making sure you have the ability to sign him? I'm sorry, when he becomes a free agent at the end of the year.

[Don Hahn]

If they get Quinn Hughes, That's a huge story in this market. I'm sorry, The Devils play in New Jersey. I don't care. They're a stone's throw from Manhattan. That is a massive story. Massive.

[Peter]

It's a big deal because of. Because of Jack and what he did with the Golden Goal. And the only way they're going to play together is in New Jersey. It would be likened to what the Sadine twins were in Vancouver. To have twins playing on the same line and all that. They got to a farm to have three brothers together. All of them in the prime of their careers. You know, two of them stars. Right now we'll see what Luke ends up becoming.

[Don Hahn]

Three stalls, tension.

[Peter]

Play together.

[Don Hahn]

Right? Three stalls.

[Peter]

They never played on the same team.

[Don Hahn]

And then this is. So it's still.

[Peter]

The stats are together.

[Don Hahn]

Down in Florida, they have that. Yes, but there's only two of them.

[Peter]

There's only two. And then the Sutter brothers. How many of them played together?

[Rosenberg]

There were seven.

[Don Hahn]

The Islanders had two of them. Dwayne, Brett.

[Peter]

I don't know if there were three that played on the same team. If it were maybe the Blackhawks.

[Don Hahn]

When there's six of them.

[Peter]

I thought there were seven.

[Don Hahn]

Seven.

[Peter]

I got to look and see. It's been a long time ago, but no, it'd be a great story. And it's like you said, it's Jersey, but I think it would be.

[Don Hahn]

No, that would be a massive. I'm sorry.

[Peter]

That's a big story.

[Don Hahn]

Big ratings for you.

[Peter]

Big deal. We'll see. They listen. We did very well after Jack scored the goal. And if they're going to play together, it's going to have to be in New Jersey. But the question is, do you wait for him to become a free agent when then you run the risk of him getting a long term deal in Minnesota. Or do you try to get him now and then lock him up? And then there you go, Spike. And say, Pete, what's going on, man? What's up, buddy? Spike. What do you got, buddy?

[Alex]

Yeah, you got me. I don't know. I felt it was an old joke when. When the. It was another sort of Brother, remember that joke about how many of them were in the league at the same time?

[Peter]

Right.

[Alex]

They do have five of them. I played with the Blues. I used to follow the game. Once they. Once the helmets were on, I was. They lost me. Anyway, listen, Alan is Musa. Let me chop this one up. So you have another drop for me. Let's give it a shot. Musa Diabetta. Jet. His name?

[Don Hahn]

Diabate?

[Alex]

Yeah. Is he about the closest to Mitch you got around? He's.

[Don Hahn]

I think he's 6, 8, 6 9. He's not nearly as tall. I mean, he's a great effort. Effort, energy. Like, you know, he's a great guy, but nowhere near. Yeah, but. But not at. Not at his, like, again, against bigger players. You know, he. We saw him struggling, the playing, because he just wasn't talking.

[Alex]

I know, I know. I just got one question for you. I know you guys got baseball, you're all over the joint, but this is my time of the year. I remember you when you first started doing the.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, my God, I'd be up all night, this stuff. Yeah.

[Alex]

And the next day I kept telling you, you're doing great, man, but you. It's tough. It's really tough. And I really went well. You hope he's feeling well. Went through that. It's. It's. Make a lot of money, some of those guys, but boy, the pressure is great. But anyway, technology is better today. I don't understand. You can answer this politically or not. Dolan said something on the other station. Somehow there's some relationship there. That's fine, I don't care. And he mention his understanding of the second apron. Far be it for me to say anything controversial, but I don't think it's punitive for guys who have their bird rights in my offer. Not.

[Don Hahn]

You can sign your own players, even if you're over it. You can't sign other players or trade for others while taking back more salary. And then once you go over it, spike your. The whole year, your. Your roster's locked. And that puts you in a very dangerous, precarious situation. That's. That's what makes it like it's not a good idea to do it. There were two teams that did it this year, but it's. Look, it's right now a conversation that's going on in the front office.

[Peter]

LeBron James.

[Rosenberg]

Serena has lost in the first round,

[Peter]

but it was an effort, right?

[Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Went three. Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

What was the third?

[Peter]

She lost six. Three. Won the second set four. All right, that's three. Well, it was still better.

[Don Hahn]

It wasn't like 637663.

[Peter]

Yeah, that's not bad.

[Rosenberg]

She had a moment there where I thought she was going to break again to get it to 54 and then she would have been serving for the tie, but instead she lost.

[Peter]

If that's a warm up, that's not a bad terrible warm up.

[Rosenberg]

No, it's an unranked player, but thanks

[Don Hahn]

for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the

[Don Hahn]

sauce is messages made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. MLB TV on ESPN is your home for every out of market game, live or on demand. Catch your favorite teams and players plus MLB Network and ESPN app features like multi view, syncing your stats, chats, key plays, bets and fantasy all in one place. Sign up now for MLB TV in the ESPN app. Separate subscriptions required. Blackouts and other terms apply. Visit stream espn.com mlbtv for more information.