Hour 2: Kafka & That Guy Thursday

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Kafka & That Guy Thursday
Date: November 13, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg

---

Episode Overview

This lively episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg is filled with the trio’s signature camaraderie and New York sports talk. Center stage is the New York Giants’ coaching transition—specifically, Mike Kafka’s prospects as interim head coach. The hosts debate whether “the problem” was really just outgoing head coach Brian Daboll, or if deeper issues remain. The episode also features an animated “That Guy Thursday” segment, as well as spirited discussions about NFL team report cards, expectations for New York football teams, and accountability in sports culture.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Who’s Really Here?” Debate (00:15–03:39)

• Playful banter about which ESPN New York personalities are most frequently in-studio vs. working from home.
• Don emphasizes his lengthy tenure and presence at the station, leading to some tongue-in-cheek “authority” (“I was the first voice of the station—24 years here.” – Don, 01:46).
• Gentle ribbing about who deserves work-from-home privileges, highlighting the internal dynamics of sports radio teams.

2. New York Giants Outlook & Mike Kafka’s Audition (04:43–14:46, 16:12–23:36, 37:03–44:28)

• Can the Giants Turn It Around?
  • Upcoming Giants games discussed: Packers (home), Lions (away), Patriots (away/Monday night), followed by a bye [04:43].
  • Skepticism about the “fired coach bump” in the NFL—Alan doesn’t buy into the narrative that teams rally for a new interim coach, especially in football [05:55].
  • Wins and losses predictions range from Don’s pessimism (0–3 in next stretch) to more optimism from Alan and Peter, who see a potential 1–2 record [07:08].
• Kafka’s Candidacy and the Dominoes of Change
  • Kafka could become permanent head coach if he closes out strong (e.g., 4–3 finish) and the offense looks revitalized [09:34, 10:21, 43:56].
  • Availability of “big names” (e.g., Tomlin, Belichick) could change the calculus, but internal stability is appealing if Kafka excels [09:41, 11:39].
  • Kafka highlighted as a respected coordinator, already on the radar for head-coaching jobs.
  • Giants’ plan: “If they go four and three…wouldn’t you give Kafka at least a 50/50 shot at the job?” — Don [09:41].
  • Possible moves: Antonio Pierce as defensive coordinator, Kafka as head coach, with a new OC if needed [11:56].
• Roster, Injuries, and “Is Dable the Only Problem?”
  • Injuries and weaknesses at key positions are discussed, particularly recent losses at WR and RB [20:40].
  • The defense’s late-game collapses put coordinator Shane Bowen under the microscope, but the hosts note overall dysfunction [19:55, 21:00].
  • Several callers raise whether moving on from Dable alone will fix the franchise’s woes [37:03–44:28].

Memorable Quotes

• “This is literally a guy that in one season threw 30 touchdown passes and 30 interceptions. It literally can go either way with him.” – Don (08:12), on Jameis Winston
• “It’s not like he’s a member of my family, I’m not rooting for him to win the job. I’m just saying … there’s a reasonable chance.” – Don on Kafka’s head coach chances (10:21)
• “They want to confirm that the only problem was Brian Dable and by getting rid of Brian Dable, they instantaneously become a better football team.” – Don (38:16)

---

3. Rooney Rule & NFL Hiring Practices (13:10–15:16)

• Kafka’s status as a minority candidate and the ostensible role of the Rooney Rule is dissected [13:10–14:46].
• Agreement that while sometimes teams “check the box,” the rule still creates real head-coaching opportunities [14:00–14:46].
• “The Rooney Rule does work—in theory—of giving opportunities.” – Don (13:54)
• “It was the NFL doing something smart. The problem is ... we've seen situations where it just seems like a complete waste of time.” – Don (14:27)

---

4. Patriots vs. Jets & Betting Picks (17:01–18:06)

• Breaking news: Garrett Wilson placed on IR. Hosts react in real time, expressing concerns over Jets’ offense [17:01].
• Spirited discussion about betting lines—most logic says Patriots will cover, but “it’s the NFL, so who knows?” [17:38].
• “Jets three-point play.” – Don (17:38), going against his own logic in a moment of sports radio bravado.

---

5. That Guy Thursday: NFLPA Team Surveys & “Bad Owners” (26:00–35:29)

• Focus on Woody Johnson railing against negative player surveys as “that guy" who complains when criticized [26:48–34:42].
• Alan spotlights a broader issue: “There’s a lot of companies that like to get a feel from their employees … Are we doing enough as management?” (30:00)
• The NFL files a grievance against the NFLPA to halt report cards, apparently in response to criticism from owners with poor grades, particularly Woody Johnson [28:27–30:57].
• “The people that are most worried about perception are the ones that are perceived poorly.” – Don (31:07)
• The hosts are skeptical of removing tools that illuminate organizational flaws: “All the PA is trying to do is make it a little easier—and motivate the owners to clean up their mess.” – Don (35:12)
• Discussion extends to flaws in league reward structure (draft/losses) and why bad franchises should not be continually “rewarded” [35:29–36:51].

---

6. Culture & Accountability in Sports: Hockey & More (46:16–50:43)

• Caller “Heather from Springfield” (“Heather Babble”) brings up an incident of NHL teammates supporting a rookie after a dangerous hit [46:16], prompting reflections on changing retaliatory culture in sports.
• Don and Alan discuss how the importance of regular season NHL games, and penalty implications, have changed tough-guy mentalities [48:52–50:43].
• “You have to defend your teammate. It’s the right thing to do.” – Don (48:52)

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamp Highlights

• On the Giants' coaching future:
  “If they go four and three … would you give Kafka at least a 50/50 shot at getting this job?” – Don (09:41)
• On team self-scouting:
  “Shouldn’t you self-scout as a league, see how everybody’s looking at these franchises?” – Don (29:26)
• On negative NFLPA report cards:
  “The people that are most worried about perception are the ones that are perceived poorly.” – Don (31:07)
• On the futility of rewarding bad franchises:
  “If you’re that bad, you shouldn’t be rewarded.” – Alan (35:45)

---

Caller Highlights

• Griffin (Connecticut, 16:12 & 32:01): Reignites the Giants optimism debate; doubts the “4–3” finish due to persistently bad defense.
• Frank (Newark, 37:03): Curious about whether letting Kafka coach reveals broader problems beyond Dable.
• Anthony (Fair Lawn, 40:36): Skeptical about Dable’s supposed offensive prowess; references Hard Knocks and Daniel Jones’ comments to question his coaching demeanor.

---

Memorable Moments

• Playful studio banter:
  Don’s assertion of station seniority and the inside jokes about work-from-home privileges (01:46).
• Live news reaction:
  Breaking news of Garrett Wilson to IR interrupts the show, revealing the real-time nature of the broadcast (17:01).
• “That Guy Thursday”:
  Woody Johnson and the NFLPA survey battle delights the hosts as a perfect example of “that guy” behavior (29:12).
• Listener engagement:
  Fans and callers, like “Heather Babble,” contribute colorful anecdotes that blend New York sports with fan experience.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode balances football analysis, light-hearted in-studio drift, and frank critiques of NFL leadership. The hosts’ chemistry, combined with real-time reaction and audience involvement, offers an entertaining primer for anyone tracking New York football drama, the Giants’ possible future under Kafka, and larger questions about accountability in sports.

For Giants fans:
The central question persists—was Brian Dable truly “the only problem”? Or are deeper fractures in the organization waiting to surface, regardless of who wears the headset? As Don, Hahn & Rosenberg emphasize, the answers will play out on the field over the season’s final seven games.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[B]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[A]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80. ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers 402 in the big city.

[B]

Don Han and Rosenberg now for Tullimore Dew. Irish Whiskey for game time. That's game time. It's brought to you by Tullimore Dew Iris Whiskey. Because when it's game time, fellas, it's.

[C]

It's time.

[D]

You know what?

[B]

I don't know.

[D]

It's tolly time.

[B]

Jets face the Patriots on Thursday night football at 8:15.

[C]

They do.

[B]

They play. The Islanders are in Vegas to take on the Golden Knights at 10.

[C]

Hell yeah. Okay. A lot of energy about that.

[B]

The original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast mature at Irish Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore do or try the new Telemore do, honey. During tonight's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Due responsible. You know I failed to promote. I've been talking about that guy. Thursday. Let's not forget at 5:30. Damien Woody. His weekly spot.

[D]

That's right, the Big Wood.

[B]

Let's not forget about that at 5:30 and then ENN at 6. We got the full vehicle till 7 and then it's Ty Butler. Looking forward to seeing Ty swinging in?

[D]

I doubt it.

[C]

Interesting. He's doing it from home.

[D]

I don't know. Maybe he's coming in for a full shot luxury.

[B]

No, I don't know. I mean, he's tremendous at what he does. But it's your tittle home. Really?

[D]

Really?

[C]

Who are you? Did you get promoted?

[B]

Who am I? Call out, people.

[C]

Who am I? Hang on, hang on. We might need to leave the room. It's getting a little tight in here.

[B]

I know. I'm just saying.

[C]

All fit.

[B]

Wait a minute.

[D]

You offended him a little bit.

[C]

A little bit.

[D]

I'm just saying we do like we have our times when we're in different places. Who are we to point out when anyone else has a time?

[B]

I am that way. I was the first voice of the station 24 years here.

[D]

All right.

[B]

I'm the only person that's here more than me recently has been Peter. Right? We're here.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. More.

[B]

Well.

[D]

Well, no, I think.

[B]

What year?

[D]

Bart's here a lot. I mean, Carlin's here a lot.

[B]

Right.

[D]

They're both here.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[C]

Oh, you mean time wise.

[B]

Well, yeah, well. Or I'm just talking about like physically.

[C]

You mean years or physically.

[B]

If I were to say physically. Let's say if I was the Boss. What about Alan?

[C]

I'm sorry, am I never here?

[D]

Yeah, Alan's here.

[C]

Who was here all summer?

[B]

I'm not gonna just list everybody.

[C]

I just wanted to throw Peter a.

[B]

Little bit because he was actually here on a Friday. That's worth like 20 days in the.

[D]

Studio here on a Friday. It's like no, I deserved all my paternity leave back for being in on a Friday.

[C]

That's, that's how you made up for it.

[D]

That's how I made up for it one Friday.

[B]

I'm just saying I don't think I'm being that guy. That guy you are. But we could save it. It's like hey, Don, John, this is Don. I'd like to work from home. Of course you've paid your dues. You've been here a lot. We love you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Peter Allen, Chris, Bart, Dan, Dave, Rick, Ty.

[D]

But you think Ty hasn't put enough time.

[B]

Get your ass in here.

[D]

That's what you.

[B]

Wow. How about that?

[D]

But by the way, maybe he is coming in.

[B]

I was speaking Pat o', Keefe, get.

[D]

Your ass out here.

[B]

Let's go Jake. Ashley, get in the car. Jake, get the stepping.

[D]

But what if. I don't know, maybe there's. Maybe Ty tonight is also doing the things at SNY he dropped.

[C]

That's a Martin line. Which one get to step in Martin Lut. Like how do you even know Martin Law?

[B]

Now if John wants to be good hearted and say no, not work from home, by all means guys do it. I'm just saying some tell, others ask. I think they fall in the category of ass. Well I, I, we fall in the category of tell.

[D]

Oh, that's nice that you say that because I still feel like I'm asking.

[B]

I'm completely talking right out of my. Right out of your ace. Right out of the rumpus room. Ty Dooley, Hobby Ty do do it from the bathroom. Have fun.

[D]

Excuse me.

[B]

Because no matter what he does, it's going to be great because he's a talent.

[D]

I'm a big fan. He's in tremendous shape by the way.

[B]

I'll go, I'm going to go. I'm going to say this. I'm going to really start. I think, I think some of our fill ins are better than guys that have full time jobs. Wow. I won't say who.

[D]

Name, name.

[B]

I won't say who.

[C]

Do the math.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Who is he talking about on next Wednesday's list?

[B]

I was just saying if I was in charge one of those three individuals that I mentioned have A full time gig. Cut his fat ass.

[D]

I don't want to, I don't want to even interpret that.

[B]

I'm not mentioning anybody's name.

[C]

No, you don't need to.

[B]

I'm just complimenting, you know, it's nice to say he does a good job. But how, how far are you willing to go to say that? I'm willing to go that far.

[D]

That's far. Yeah, but I think it's, I think it could be true and I don't want to get into, you know, craziness here, but.

[B]

So seven games left. Now the Packer game is winnable, but you're also got the unknown of Winston at quarterback instead of having dart, so that changes the narrative a little bit. So this is gonna be tough. Then you are going to Detroit to take on the Lions.

[D]

I'll Detroit. Yeah.

[B]

That's. That's a beast, right? That, that in the best of circumstances you're in all likelihood not winning that game. Then you go into New England to take on the Patriots and listen, the Patriots have been phenomenal. All right. They're seven and two and they're. And no offense to the jets, they're going to be 8 and 2. Are they going to finish 15 and 2. Are the Patriots now unbeatable? I'm just asking, do you think they are then? They are.

[D]

I don't. I assume they're not unbeatable, but they're very, very good.

[B]

Okay, so those are three.

[C]

Is that a Monday night game?

[B]

That is a Monday night game. So that doesn't bode well because the Giants play awful in prime time. But so what I'm asking is, can they go one and two in the.

[C]

Next three.

[B]

Home against the packers at Detroit, at New England.

[C]

How much do you give the fired coach Bump?

[B]

I don't give any. Bump.

[C]

No bump.

[B]

No, that doesn't work.

[C]

Peter Bump.

[B]

Fired coach.

[C]

Always get that fired coach bump.

[D]

I'm not, I'm not feeling it this time around.

[C]

Like again, a coach that like, either guys are emotional about him getting fired and a little more locked in because they're mad about it or guys that are like, thank God he's gone. And the offense feels different, looks there and guys are a little more happier about the fact that, you know, it's a different. There's a different voice in the headset. Is it is. So you say no Bump. Also usually the fired coach Bump is a real thing.

[B]

In the other three sports, it's a real thing. I don't think it is non football.

[C]

Okay, that's why I asked you guys.

[B]

No, but you could disagree. I just. I don't.

[C]

I always feel like there's a bump. So I always get a bump.

[B]

All right, so you think they beat the Packers?

[C]

I think the packers are beatable.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I'm not saying they can't. I worry again, I don't trust Bowen and his defense. I don't trust what they're going to lead.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Up 14 in the fourth. Do you still think they can win that game? I don't. I won't believe it until it's triple zeros.

[B]

Probably not. Same personnel, Mostly the same coaches now. All right, so you got a choice. Oh, and three. One and two. Which one you picking? Because two and one's not on the table. I'm not gonna win two of the next.

[C]

So you're saying I have to slide my chips one side or the other?

[B]

Yeah, you have to choose 1 and 2. All right, 1 and 2.

[C]

I'll take 1 and 2. Offense is good enough.

[B]

All right, so 1 and 2.

[D]

Trying to look at the order again. One more time.

[B]

It's home against packers at Detroit Lions.

[C]

New England on a Monday night and then a buy. So they know that they get to go away. Last day of school, Monday night game.

[D]

No, I know this sounds weird because I just gave them a chance to win. I'm going to go oh, and three. I'm going to go in three.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right. I got one and two. You got Owen three.

[B]

I think they go one.

[C]

Whatever happens at the end of this, we go to Trader Joe's and buy whatever the other guy.

[D]

There you go. Sounds good.

[B]

So I don't feel that strongly you want to buy. All right, now you got the buy, rest up, whatever. Hopefully you get Dart back. It's also difficult to play this game when you don't even know when Dart's coming back and how Winston's to going. Going to play and all that.

[C]

But don't you think Winston's the wild card in the Packer games?

[B]

Very much.

[C]

You get the coach bump and you get a quarterback that nobody has any idea what's going to happen.

[B]

Or it could be a disaster.

[C]

It could be.

[B]

That's our pick six on his first.

[C]

Pass, he could throw for 305 touchdowns or he could give up four picks and be a mess.

[B]

This is literally a guy that in one season threw 30 touchdown passes and 30 interceptions. It literally can go either way with him.

[D]

Roller coaster.

[B]

All right, so now you go on the buy, you come back home against the Commanders, win big Dub, Fat, dub. Home against Minnesota. Why not at Vegas?

[D]

Hold on.

[B]

Home against Dallas.

[D]

So what you're saying is.

[C]

And what does that game mean for Dallas?

[D]

Nothing. They should get three. You're saying they should get a minimum three down the stretch.

[B]

So what? What you're not, you may not be willing to go there, but Alan and I, if we have them one and two in the next three before the buy, that means that the Kafka led Giants will close out the season four and three.

[D]

Well, you gave them three in a row. That's a lot. You just did.

[C]

No, no, no, no, you didn't.

[D]

At the end.

[B]

No, no, I. If you win three of the last.

[C]

Three of the four.

[B]

Three of the last.

[C]

There's four after the buy and you're already giving the commanders up. So now there's only two more wins you got to find and that's right.

[B]

And the Dallas thing, Dallas could be mathematically eliminated.

[D]

Now we get them to put. I see it.

[B]

Okay, so, but listen, I don't think they're going to come out of the buy and win four straight. But if they're four and three and the offense looks good and dart looks good and the defense looks improved, looking at the landscape of the coaches available, you wouldn't give Kafka at least a 50, 50 shot of getting this job.

[C]

I wish. Yes, you give him a 50. 50. But here's what you got to think. The only thing that knocks him off the pedestal is if Tomlin shakes free. If there's a Belichick kind of shakes three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have that one. To me, it's about what you just said, the availability. Because if I have to go out and hire another coordinator. Well, my guy has been interviewing around the league and probably will get calls again to interview around the league. There's a reason why he's. The last two years he's been interviewing for head coaching jobs. There are people that consider him a top coordinator that might be a head coach one day. So would you just get another coordinator and let him walk? Or would you say, well, we got.

[B]

A guy and remember again, it's not like he's a member of my family. I'm not rooting for him to win the job. I'm just, I am just saying that I believe, listening to Carl Banks, knowing the Giants the way that I think I know them, I think that there's a reasonable chance. This is not your typical. Just throw him in there as needed. I think they're going to give him.

[C]

A really good one and if you're Joe Shane is what you're rooting for, because that gives you stability too, right?

[B]

And also what it does. And here's another reason why I think the Giants are kind of rooting for Kafka to get the job, is that their only screw up was Dale, and they corrected that. Like they got Kafka, Right? All right. Bowen, I think he was a product of. He was a product of Dable, right? So we got him out here. Shane, he's still a good general manager, got good players. Look at, look at. We got rid of Dable. And what happened, all of a sudden we start winning games. We go, we go four and three. Down the stretch, we're in games. You know, we. We played well against Minnesota, we played well against Green Bay, we played well against New England. Like all these things have to happen. And I think they would give him an excellent chance to do it. Now you bring up a good point. All of a sudden, Pittsburgh, let goes Tomlin or Baltimore, let's go John Harbaugh. It's a wild card, you know, or Bill Belichick says, listen, I just broke up the girlfriend and I just want to coach your team and I'll do it for free.

[C]

Oh, by the way, Belichick, if he wants to talk to the Giants, the Giants will talk.

[D]

Oh, yeah, they'll have a conversation.

[C]

And if he comes in and, you know, woos Mara or Tish or everybody else in the, you know, upstairs with the Giants and they start falling in love, he's getting that job.

[B]

And also, the way the NFL is structured, they can't just give the job to Kafka anyway because of the Rooney rule. They've got to interview people. So. So if Tomlin becomes available, they'd have to interview him. They're gonna interview Antonio Pierce, if for no other reason to give him the D coordinator job. See, that, to me, makes sense. You bring an Antonio Pierce to be the defensive coordinator, Kafka stays the head coach, right? And then you bring in an OC. There'll be guys that shake loose there, right? Maybe McDaniel becomes available, Miami lets him go. Would you. Would you take him as their offensive coordinator? So things are. I'm not predicting it. Maybe I'm reading a little bit too much into it, but the way Carl Banks completely shut down any conversation who the next head coach would be, and the reason he said that was because Mike Kafka is auditioning for this job makes me believe he thinks he's got a decent shot to get it. Now he's got to coach well. But I think if you go four and three and they look marketably better, I think he's got an excellent job. Chance to get the job he does.

[C]

Four and three is asking a lot. By the way, Kafka is part Puerto Rican. That would.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Wouldn't that put him in the Rooney Rule?

[B]

The speculation has been for people that have been negative about him saying the reason he got those interviews was because of the Rooney Rule. I don't know. I don't know. But he did get those interviews. You know, the Rooney Rule. I know it's easy to just say they go through the motions. I'm not saying they don't. But in most cases, I think there's enough minority candidates that are legitimate candidates that you could check the box for the Rooney Rule without just throwing away a day interviewing somebody that's got no shot. And we've seen guys that have risen through that and become legitimate coaches in the league. And the Rooney Rule does work. I mean, at least in theory of giving opportunities.

[C]

Disagrees, but.

[B]

Yeah, right. I'm not saying it's perfect.

[D]

No, no, no.

[B]

But I do think. I, I don't. I do. I think that there are teams to bring in a minority candidate just to check the box. Okay, we're doing. But I do think there are. That they're still bringing in legitimate coaching candidates to do that. Like they. When they brought in Kafka, they were probably checking a box, but at the same time wanting to take a legitimate look at a guy that people respect as a possible future head coach in the NFL. Can that be fair?

[D]

Totally. I think there are times when, listen, the rule had. The Rooney Rule had to be created because you saw the lack of diversity in the league. So they had to do something. They'll say, our coaching is not representative of the players in this league. We have to do something. It was the NFL doing something smart. So the problem is. Yeah, like you said, sometimes we've seen situations where it just seems like a complete waste of time.

[C]

We know who we want to hire, but we can't hire him yet because we have to interview a minority, satisfy this. Yeah. Well, it's the argument, though, that I've heard on that part is that it's never a waste of time to experience an interview if you've never had somebody you get to know. You never know if this coach that you wanted, you end up hiring doesn't work out. Well, you know, we really like that guy, though. We, you know, we should bring him back.

[D]

No, it's a waste when it's someone you know, when it. When it's not. No longer a choice. But no one has a cheat like this guy. People have had multiple coaching jobs. You're bringing them in, and you're like.

[C]

No one has a shot, but you just bring them in anyway.

[D]

And they already have the experience they've had coach before. Now, guys, here's what I want you all to experience. It's Amazon Pickup. Yeah, it's the ultimate convenience play. We all know Amazon is part of everyday life, but Amazon Pickup, it takes it to the next level. If you're pressed for time, you're on the go, like I am. You could choose to send your order straight to a secure pickup location that works for you. Amazon lockers and counters are located near you. No matter where your day takes you, your package is ready when you are. Life never slows down. So instead of worrying about timing or schedules, your package is waiting for you. For me, whoever. It's all there for you, right? Like, I'm super busy, got the baby at home, got 93 jobs, constantly on the move. But Amazon Pickup gives me the flexibility to grab what I need between shows, errands, commute, all that stuff. All right, simple. You order online, at checkout. Just choose the pickup location that's most convenient. You get an email confirmation when it's ready with instructions to pick up what you need. It's quick, secure, and always at no extra cost. Check it out for yourself. Go to Amazon.com pickup MVP to learn more. That's Amazon.com pickup MVP.

[B]

Let's go to Griffin in Connecticut. You're on ESPN News.

[D]

This guy attacked me yesterday on the show.

[C]

What?

[E]

Peter, I couldn't hear you for a minute.

[B]

Oh, you attacked him yesterday.

[D]

I said, you attacked me on the show yesterday.

[E]

Oh, my God. It was playing around.

[D]

Well, it sounded just. Now, Griffin, we're gonna play it back for you.

[B]

When you just said, okay, I'm fine.

[E]

I apologize.

[D]

No, no, no, Griffin. You know, Griffin. No, no, no. Please, please don't be. Don't be as sensitive as Alan. I already have to deal with Alan. I can't deal with you too. I'm not saying that. I'm saying when. He just picked up the phone and went, what? Peter. Alice, he went full biff.

[C]

That was. Yeah, that was aggressive.

[D]

He was about to press me up against the wall.

[C]

That was aggressive. Sounded good, though.

[D]

I gotta tell you, it scared me. I kind of liked it.

[B]

Continue, Griffin. Oh, quickly, breaking news. Garrett Wilson placed on I.R.

[E]

You know what?

[B]

Thanks, Rich.

[C]

Yeah. Rich, good job.

[B]

Go ahead, Griffin, take the Patriots tonight. They're gonna easily cover that number. I don't have them. I don't know how the. I don't know how the jets are going to score. How are they going to score?

[D]

I don't know.

[E]

This is a great Patriot defense that can stop the run.

[B]

So how are they going to score? Everything in my bones, every logical football person says the Patriots are going to cover the 13 and a half easily. But this is the NFL, we've seen crazier things. Jets three point play.

[D]

What?

[C]

You just did it? I just did it.

[E]

You really.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[D]

You know, it's funny, I, so I was thinking about the jets. Now I'm laying off for the patch hard.

[B]

Are you going to go, you're going to go patch three?

[C]

No.

[D]

I see Alan thinking though, because we know he loves the Pats this year. We know he loves his baby Drake, little baby Drake. He's thinking about it. Eyebrows raised.

[B]

But Griffin, you're spicy today. So what else you got spicy, Griff?

[E]

I don't, I don't see how they're going to go four and three in these games. I, the one reason why I don't think the giants are going 4, 3 in these games, their defense in the fourth quarter is so bad. That's the point. And the defensive coordinator is still there.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

So that, that's, that's the thing.

[B]

Well, nobody is predicting it, Griffin. What we're saying is, you know, what we're saying is if they do go 4 and 3. So I'll ask you, you think it's an impossibility and you're, you're not, probably not wrong. So if they were to go four and three, wouldn't you give a strong look to Kafka being the coach of the team moving forward? Yes. Well, that, that's the point we're trying to make is he's been given an opportunity and I don't think they're going to go four and three, but I didn't think they beat Philadelphia. I didn't think they beat the Chargers. And you let Dable go. And if you think Dable is the reason why they blew those four games against the Broncos, the Saints, the Cowboys and the Bears, well, then maybe if somebody else was coaching the team, maybe they win one or two of those games. We're just painting a scenario where it's not an impossibility. And I think the Giants are kind of hoping that he does a good job because I don't think they would mind Making him that coach because then it justifies the firing of Dable. It solidifies the return of Shane, which I think they want. And also something that hasn't been said. Matter of fact, the opposite was said about with Anthony. What if Dart doesn't like him? What if Dart likes him? What if Darts like, I want him to be my coach Now I don't think he should have that kind of say to Peter's point. But if we're giving credit to how Darts played and they think Kafka might be responsible for that, doesn't that help him?

[C]

I mean, I appreciate this effort we're making here. I, I just don't see with no change with the defensive coordinator. I don't know how things change when you consider the next three opponents all have pretty good offense. Like you're going to have to put up 30 plus points to beat these teams.

[B]

No, it's hard like Shane Bones just.

[C]

Suddenly going to go, oh, without Dable here now I can do what I want.

[B]

All right.

[C]

They will had nothing to do with.

[B]

The defense but you could be making an argument that maybe it won't take four and three. That's all how it looks. All right. If you know they lose but the offense is just roll offense is great. They seem to have structure. They seem to know what they're doing.

[C]

The guy that when the season started we're talking about how there was a lack of weapons that the wide receivers, they're. They're not very good.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And now you've lost one of the wide receivers that actually was good and you've lost a running back you didn't know you had until you had him and now you don't have them.

[B]

I know but I also.

[C]

How is it still supposed to look.

[B]

But I didn't know I had a quarterback and hopefully I do. We'll see what happens with this.

[C]

He better dial back, dial back the.

[B]

Running now that he's a lot better than I think.

[C]

If, if they now have to worry about four concussions or at least four times he had to be checked for a concussion and worry about him. I don't run as much. Little more conservative. Let's just finish out this season with you healthy and upright. It's going to look different. I just like, I just, I don't feel like this is as simple as saying, hey, if he just wins, if Dable just won, they wouldn't, he wouldn't be gone. They lost games in epic fashion. I know they lost three that they should have won and four that they could have won and they should have a winning record right now. They're a bad football team because they were poorly coached.

[B]

And it sounds to me, based on the firing of Dable, that Shane's still here, that Bowen's still here, that they believe that Dable was the problem and that the reason they lost those four games. Yes, the defense was bad at the end of the games, but also Dable, the way he positioned himself in those games put them in a situation that they lost. All right, the defense fell apart against Denver, but why is Dart throwing on third down not forcing Denver to call the time? Like, so that was a reason why they lost that game. Right? You know, the whole handling of Dart, not knowing when he got hurt, leaving him in after he had gotten hurt. You know, there was a great point that was made on social media where when it looked like when Dart suffered the concussion, Wilson put his helmet on, ready to go out there like the coach didn't see it, but the backup quarterback did. Like, so is that a reason why they lost against the Bears? That the fact that Winston's not the backup and Wilson was?

[C]

Because Wilson, Yeah.

[B]

What the Giants might be telling you is, yes, the defense is sucked in the fourth quarter, but that's not the only reason why we blew these games. And maybe with a different coach, we.

[C]

Win them and renounce. Talked about how he, you know, Dabel was out of control a lot of times emotionally out of control because of losing and him lashing out at Kof, lashing out at people he saw. The tenth thing. Is there just a different mood on the sideline without, you know, Daniel just losing control the way he did.

[D]

And again, to the point I was making earlier about just continuity and wanted to just keep things as simple as possible. If you can turn the games that they were just supposed to win into actual wins, that could be enough for Kafka, given everything else that's going on. Because either way, they're going to read the Shane Bowen thing is getting handled.

[B]

In the off season.

[C]

It better.

[D]

That's getting handled. Right. Joe Shane's. Joe Shane could stick around. I think if you're the Giants right now, all you got to do is do the things you're supposed to do. Don't blow games in the fourth quarter.

[B]

Beat.

[D]

Win the games that are winnable. And I think you will have a shot to stay winnable.

[C]

Is after the. After the buy.

[B]

Yeah, most likely. But we'll see. We'll see what happens on Sunday. See how Winston plays. There's a lot of ifs we'll give you that. And I'm not predicting it. I'm just saying there can be a scenario could win this job. Ifs were a spliff, we'd all be high. I don't know if that's this phrase, but I just nailed it. What is it?

[D]

If was a spliff, we'd be all bleeped up.

[B]

Well, same thing.

[C]

Yeah, he's on the right track.

[D]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. Shorter days don't have to be so dismal. It's time to reach out and check in with those you care about and to remind ourselves that we're not alone. As seasons change and days grow darker, sooner can be a tough time for many. This November, BetterHelp's encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind the people in your life that you're there. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Short questionnaire helps you identify your needs and preferences, and our 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means we typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist anytime from our tailored recommendations this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call pound250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout after calling pound250.

[F]

As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[D]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[A]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. We all have that one friend.

[B]

I'm talking about the yo yos who set themselves on fire and bathe in.

[A]

Pork and beans or know that one.

[D]

Person I'm here with, my family who.

[A]

Can'T help but be he's not cool.

[D]

His voice is weird. He's kind of a dork. His brother's a tool. His girlfriend's annoying.

[A]

That guy.

[B]

I didn't know it was banner night. We won't be out for that.

[A]

It's time for that guy Thursday.

[C]

Hey, guys, anyone want to play some.

[A]

Ball with Don Hahn and Rosenberg?

[B]

He's just being that guy.

[D]

All right, that guy Thursday.

[C]

And we have. We have a guy right here in. In New York in this market. Guy. Okay, that was being that guy. And he might get his way. Do we like it when that guy gets his own way, gets what he wants?

[B]

Depends on what he wants.

[C]

Well, if you remember during owners meetings back in March, Woody Johnson called. You remember the. Those surveys that the players do in flpa. Right. They put out these surveys that the players talk about, and they grade teams on various things about player experience. The jets are consistently.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And they get hammered every year. Well, Woody Johnson didn't like it, not happy about it. And he led a cause with some other owners as well. I should point out Robert Kraft is one of them. Michael Bidwill, David Tepper, Art Rooney even. Right. They were also getting grades of D or worse. But it was Woody Johnson who called the survey totally bogus and hinted, you know, I think it violates our collective bargaining agreement. Yeah. He took issue with how they collected the information and who they collected it from. That it's supposed to be according to the agreement that they have with the league. It's supposed to be a process where we have representatives and they have representatives. So we know that it's an honest survey. So Woody Johnson went on to say, it was violated, in my opinion, and I'm going to leave it at that. But I think there are a lot of owners who look at that survey and said, this is not fair. It's not balanced. It's not every player. It's not even representative of the players. While he was saying all of that, one owner told espn, the only owners who don't care for that are the ones who get subpar grades. End quote. So now we learned that the NFL now has officially filed a grievance against the NFL Players association, asking the union to stop its annual team report card, saying the exercise violates the collective bargaining agreement. The league is saying, we also do this. We do it collaborative, so we have checks and balances about our franchises so that the players have the things that they want, like and need. And the NFL PA responded, yeah, the last time we did that was 2015. So Woody Johnson stomping. His feet, not being happy because he's called out as a bad owner is getting what he wants. He was that guy. Do we like it when that guy gets what he wants?

[D]

Whoever likes it when that guy gets.

[C]

Do we have a problem with these surveys? Do we think this is, this is wrong? Do we think they're a little biased or bogus? Do we think it doesn't make sense or is it pretty much representative of when you look at a franchise, they go, I don't think that's a good run franchise. And the players say, no, it's not.

[B]

Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with just, you know, getting an idea of how players feel about certain franchises. It doesn't have to be the end all, be all, doesn't have to be exactly 100% how you look at that. But shouldn't you self scout as a league, see how everybody's looking at these franchises? Wouldn't you want to know, like, you could be sitting there going, I think I'm doing a fabulous job. Everybody thinks that my team is, is run very well. And then you find out from your own players you're not. You can be insulted and want to get rid of the survey or go, you know, maybe I need to look a little deeper in myself and try to make some changes.

[C]

One strongly disagree. There's a lot of companies that like to get a feel from their employees of how they're running their business and how their employees feel. I've heard that, you know, these, these, these surveys are very important ways to understand are we doing enough as management to make sure people are happy and if they're not, whose fault is it that we're not happy enough? That's what most companies do.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so the NFLPA does it and presents it publicly, which is probably what really bothers the owners. But one owner spoke loudly about it. He happens to be the one that everybody, you know, gives an F to. And now the league is going to try to get the NFLPA to cease and desist with these players surveys. NFLPA has already, you know, appealed and they're already saying, this year, this year. Oh, we're doing it, we're doing it this year. But it is odd, isn't it? Of all the things for Woody Johnson.

[B]

To worry about, I know, well, that those are the people, the people that are most worried about perception are the ones that are perceived poorly.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's how it was. Usually you, if you don't care, that means you feel good about yourself and you don't have to worry about other people. The fact that he's so bothered by it tells you that he realizes that we're not a very well run franchise. We don't win. And maybe I need to pay attention to this. But he got upset about it. Looks like he may eventually get his way. But it's a very interesting question. Peter, you got anything today? That guy Thursday, 4:30.

[C]

What was that? He just. Is he waking you back up?

[B]

No.

[D]

To see if I remember. No, I was digging around. I don't have like, one particular. I mean, listen, I have lots of things. Are any of the things that we should do on this show right now?

[B]

Why not take a chance?

[D]

I don't know.

[B]

If YouTube, you know, they deserve.

[D]

Here's what I have for that guy.

[B]

Thursday.

[D]

I have, you know, Griffin, who. I'm just trying to say hello to the guy and I'm trying to reference yesterday when he was. I thought he kind of bullied me. And this is. This is the sound of Griffin.

[C]

He bowed up.

[D]

Listen to Griffin today.

[C]

What?

[E]

Peter.

[D]

Wait, you're telling me.

[C]

A lot of impatience.

[B]

Hold on.

[D]

You're telling me that's on a guy who says, next time I see. Yeah, next time I see you, it's a bleeping problem.

[B]

Yeah, we got a problem, Peter. Oh, yeah.

[D]

I love this man.

[C]

So that's him. That's him. That's him. He just. He just flipped the shank in his hand.

[B]

He is the gift that keeps on giving. What? Peter Griffin from Connecticut.

[C]

Different tone in that.

[B]

My. That guy is accentuated by the fact that we just got word about Garrett Wilson going on ir. And that, of course, is Aaron Glenn. He's being that guy. No, he's being that guy. Even sending out some sort of a signal like, oh, well, Rich, you know he's gonna break all the news. Well, you know, what were you hiding? You put him on ir. We knew he was gonna be out for the game against New England today, but now he's out.

[D]

Why did it matter?

[B]

Why. Why are you playing these games, man? I want to know the end game. Rich Samini's always had your back. Now, we got a caller yesterday and made a good point. He's probably aggravated that things got leaked. He's not mad at Rich, but he's using Rich to show. Hey, we got to button things up here. Who's going to Rich? Who's talking to Rich about stuff? Who's telling tales out of school? But, dude, save that for things that are up in the air. Save that for Things we don't know. Everybody knew Garrett Wilson was hurt. He didn't finish the game. It's a short week.

[C]

You know what's. You know what's connecting? It's the Jets. The jets and all the leaks, Right?

[B]

Yeah, That's.

[C]

You're that guy. Because the head coach who can't stop the leaks is blaming the media for it. At least that's. You're perceiving that as such. And as I said, the owner of the jets more concerned with the fact that the players give him bad grades than looking internally and thinking, you know what? We got a problem here and maybe we need to fix it. But no, he can't fix it because he doesn't know how. Oh, like that's the biggest problem is he can't get out of his own way. You're gonna stomp your feet at an owner's meeting about grades that are given out because your team is run piss poor and your facilities are meh. And your location, not so great, and your hiring practices and the fact that your family is allowed. Your kids are allowed to come into the locker room and talk crap about players right in front of them. Have carte blanche in a locker room. It's supposed to be a sacred place. And so players are gonna. You know what? F. F this. F that.

[B]

Fm.

[C]

Yeah, like, that's what they did. And he's gonna go, I don't like these surveys. We should put a stop to him so nobody else has to read about the fact that we suck as owners.

[D]

But that's. That's what people like that do.

[B]

Honestly, who puts the list together? The players, the union? Why do they do it? They want to help their constituents in their search for free agency to know where's a good place to go. Yeah.

[D]

So when you're considering what options. He make a lot of money taking that away.

[B]

But what Woody fails to realize is they all talk. The agents talk.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So it's not like you need a survey. People can be like, I'm thinking of signing with the Jets. What do you think? I wouldn't go over there. Owner doesn't know what he's doing. Facilities are really nice.

[C]

Better get extra.

[B]

But, you know, you're stuck in the suburbs. You're not really that close to New York City. Like, these things are gonna get found out anyway. So all the PA is trying to do is just make it a little easier and also motivate the owners to clean up their mess.

[C]

You know what? It's. Again, it goes back to what I Say about how I hate the lottery because you're, you're a bad franchise. And when you're a bad franchise that loses, you get the best possible young player that comes out.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Why are you rewarded?

[B]

If you're that bad, you shouldn't be rewarded.

[C]

You know what I think? If you're in the lottery or if you're, if you're in the bottom 10 in the NFL or bottom NFL two years in a row, second year, you got to go up. No way are you allowed to back to back, either win the lottery back to back or be top five in the lottery or in the NFL where there's no lottery that you should be able to have two consecutive bottom five finishes because you're that bad. No way that's rewarding you for being bad. And then you sell, hey, we got these. We're going to be great now. And you know what happens? Those players end up not being developed properly and you continue to suck hamster wheels.

[D]

Yeah, it does seem, it does seem that way. Like how often it very rarely does a team get, you know, a couple of top five picks over a three, four year period.

[C]

Giants got immediately developing Daniel Jones, 2 and 6. How'd that work out?

[D]

Not great, Bob, but although both of.

[B]

Them are doing great leagues, that's why it's never. The players want these star players to be in places where they can excel and they can win and be successful. And it's just a mess. But that was good. That was that guy Thursday.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[D]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[A]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

All right, let's hammer these calls at 1-800-919376. Frank and Newark go.

[G]

Hey, good. Good afternoon, guys. One of the things, I'm actually curious about Kafka and his ability to coach the team on Sunday. And one of the reasons I, I say this is because I don't know if you remember last year, there was a time period where even Daniel Jones came out and said something. Now I could be wrong, where he said that he's never been coached the way he was coached in Minnesota when he was on the practice squad.

[B]

He did say that.

[G]

Exactly. And then we hear the reports about when Martindale couldn't, couldn't get along with table because he was a control freak or what have you. So I understand as a head coach you kind of want to have it done your way, but at some point you Got to let your coordinators and your coaches do their jobs. That's why you, that's why you, you went ahead and appointed these individuals in your coaching tree. So I'm actually curious because if, let's say Kafka, and this is very optimistically speaking, does well on Sunday and is able to coach this team, you know, for one, it might make Joe Shane's job to searching for the next head coach a lot easier. But then it starts to. It starts to put a level of skepticism for me as far as Dable was concerned.

[B]

Well, that's what the hope is, Frank. Right? Like if you're the Giants, if you're John Mara, if you're, if you're Joe Shane, you're hoping that the only problem was Brian Dable and by getting rid of Brian Dabel instantaneously become a better football team. Now, maybe that's not enough for Mike Kafka to become the head coach, but wouldn't that look good for the organization that, hey, our general manager is good. Everything else is fine. We got rid of the one problem. But if they continue to play exactly the same, then it's, well, you know what? Maybe Daybowl wasn't the only problem. Maybe we still have a problem at general manager and maybe Kafka doesn't know what he's doing either, and now you got to blow the whole damn thing up. That's why I think the Giants are rooting for Kafka to win this job is because it shows you that there was only one problem and that one problem was eliminated. It's not a dozen problems and we got to replace everybody. It was just the one.

[C]

Feels. Feels like a lot.

[B]

It feels.

[C]

It feels like a lot.

[B]

Please do not misunderstand.

[C]

One guy was holding the whole thing back.

[B]

This is not a prediction. But that's the hope, right? Like, everybody wants it to just be the one issue.

[C]

Yeah, that's the easy way is that he goes and everything just now works Right. But there is.

[B]

Right.

[C]

There are injuries that have also been part of this. And the defense has been the reason for a lot of these collapses, a lot of them. And that nothing changed on that side. So you don't have the raving lunatic who gets unhinged on the sideline. You don't have that anymore. Does that calm the room down? Does that, does that create a different environment on the sideline? I don't remember hearing players, though, having a major problem with the head coach. I just remember seeing a team whose defense couldn't stop anyone late in the game to protect the league. That's all I remember. That wasn't changed, right?

[B]

That wasn't changed. But did those collapses come from something other than the defense not being able to come up with a stop?

[C]

Yeah, him being stubborn about it.

[B]

Wasn't like the offense was adding points. Remember they didn't score a point in the fourth quarter in that game against Denver. They allowed 36. And the kicking issues and you know, because now you're hearing that the kid from Rutgers was something that Dable really wanted and it wasn't coup. And now Koo's kicking field goal. Like there's a lot of things that were going on just besides the defense. Anthony's in Fair Lawn. You're on espn, New York.

[H]

Hey, guys, I got two quick Babel points, one I can't believe I have I haven't heard anybody else make, which is I knew this guy wasn't going to. Isn't a good coach. Two years ago when I watched Hard Knocks and saw him lounging on a couch with his feet up on the table when his boss was in the.

[B]

Room.

[D]

I remember that I did think.

[H]

That was weird instantly. Like, who is this guy?

[B]

Think he's the other one too. Anthony the bother me a little bit. I'm a cigar guy. When he. When they had that Zoom meeting and he was like in the pool smoking a cigar, like, yep, dude feels pretty good about always carrying.

[H]

Having done anything in the NFL like you think you are, you know, he always. Second thing.

[B]

And.

[H]

And the second point is. And I've only heard, really, Michael K. Say this is. A lot of people are saying, well, he's not a good head coach, but he's a genius offensive coordinator. He's so good at calling plays and developing quarterbacks. Like, there's actually zero evidence of that and a lot of evidence that he's not good at it. When he was calling the plays for the Giants, we were in the 30th offense in the league when Daniel Jones left. The guy automatically became better. Every other quarterback that we had got worse when they played for the Giants. Nothing innovative with that offense whatsoever in the four years that he was there. So I don't even think this guy is a good offensive coordinator. I think he's a guy everyone wants to have a beer with. I think he's probably an awesome guy to talk football about. I don't think he's a good offensive coordinator or a head coach.

[B]

Well, that'll be probably like everybody looks. Remember he wasn't the OC In Buffalo. The Whole time they gave him credit for Josh Allen. Was he. I don't know. I think. I think he's a good offensive mind.

[C]

Don't you think?

[B]

But I. But that's not enough to be had.

[C]

But to that point, if you think about it, his success and failure is tied to the players. His success is Josh Allen and Josh Allen's a talent. His success is Jackson dart. I think we're seeing Jackson darts a talent. Right. His failure. Daniel Jones where he would just blame Daniel Jones. It's always Daniel Jones fault. Russell Wilson. Right.

[B]

Like those.

[C]

Those were the things that. It's not. It's. It's the plays aren't being run or executed properly. So it's. It's not like he was innovative enough to say, all right, well, Russ is making business decisions so we're gonna have to do things differently so we can get. Maximize whatever we can out of him. Or Daniel Jones doesn't have the capacity to do the things we're asking him to do. So we have to design something around that and maximize that. And instead it almost was like he'd get angry when. When Daniel Jones couldn't do what he's like just do this.

[B]

Yeah. And when we're talking about Kafka success here, we're attaching it to wins and losses. But in another way could be. Let's say they lose to the packers. But Winston looks good. Yeah. Goes out there and throws for 252 touchdown passes.

[C]

They lose because they're defense. Right.

[B]

Well, that's going to be hit on Dable. Because why wasn't Winston packing up though?

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

And maybe you beat the Bears of Winston. Winston's backing up Dart. Maybe you beat the Cowboys if he's back, you know, if he's the starting quarterback instead of Wilson. Like there's. Now it starts to creep. Now the narrative begins all day. Well was the problem. Look. Now Winston goes out there and stinks. That's going to be a hit to Kafka. And that's going to be a plus to. Well, and that.

[D]

And that by the way. And that could all just be because Winston now stinks. We haven't seen him play at all. May have nothing to do with whatsoever.

[B]

He can't be worse than Wilson. Then Wilson was the backup quarterback. We all kind of raised an eyebrow. Like really like not. Not the dark didn't start right away. I think everybody kind of agreed with that. But then Wilson still backed him up even after they bench how bad he was. That was the weird one. What's going on here. So if Winston's this hidden gem, why didn't Dable see it? Why did he stop it? And what games could have been won had he been backing up Dart?

[C]

Well, you know what they weren't. Aren't going to be able to do is just simply just replace Jackson Dart with Jameis Winston. Right. It's not like you just go in and just put it right over the top and you're getting the same exact thing.

[B]

No.

[C]

You feel what I'm saying?

[D]

No. Of course.

[C]

You have to do a complete renovation of the office.

[B]

Oh, that's a good idea.

[C]

You know what I mean? Sometimes you need to do that.

[D]

Oh, she didn't see where he was going.

[B]

You want it to fit.

[C]

You want it to fit, but you're. Here's the thing. Uniquely fit.

[D]

But you're not looking for a temporary.

[C]

No, no, no permanent solution. You need. You need this to be a permanent solution.

[D]

Actually, no, you don't. You really don't want Jameis Winston to.

[B]

Be the perfect solution.

[D]

Let's be honest.

[B]

Let's follow this.

[C]

Let's go back. Let's follow it anyway.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[C]

Because obviously, as you guys know what I'm referring to as my good friends at Bath Fitter, they remodeled the bath in my house. They took an old bath out and they put in a gorgeous shower. Yes, they do that, too. My sister liked it so much, she wanted to get her bath renovated as well. And Bath Fitter, they offer all types of custom bath renovations, including their unique permafit solution. They get a watertight fit. Right now is the best time to get a renovation in your house, especially right before the holidays. You're have people over. You can have a guest bath or people using a bath if they're staying over. And you don't want to be embarrassed by some old bathtub or old shower that nobody wants to go in. They just won't tell you about it. So get it done right now.

[B]

Why?

[C]

Because it takes one day. It's durable, it's easy to clean. There's no demolition, lower cost than a full replacement. And the best part, a lifetime guarantee. And right now is the best time to do it because you have no money, no money down, no payments and no interest for 18 months. No interest payments until April of 2027. And they have their biggest sale of the year going on right now. You can save up to $800 on a complete Bath Fitter system. So see their website or call for details. In this Black Friday savings, you can trust the Bath Fitter team, just like we did. So start designing your bath [e-mail]. there's only one bath fitter.

[B]

Let's go back to the busy phones and talk to Heather in Springfield. You're on ESPN New York. Hi, Heather.

[E]

Hey, guys. Hey, Don. I'm so glad I got to talk to you the other night at the Devil's game.

[B]

Yeah, I saw her Monday at the Devil game. Remember she called a couple of weeks ago on a Friday. That was the topic of our conversation, right, Heather?

[E]

Yes. I called and I was with the Halloween candy draft, and I talked about basically everything but the Halloween candy.

[C]

Remember this? We do remember.

[D]

I remember it well. It was troubling.

[E]

Okay, good. But I do have to point. I have something for that guy Thursday. So a little off topic, off football, but going into hockey. So I became a hockey fan within the last couple years because my husband, you know, football's my favorite sport, but he's a huge hockey fan. So I saw a documentary or a little tidbit on that. That new player Schaefer, and then Don, I think they were playing Toronto, and I guess it was like two weeks ago, and that one player came over and they. They kind of like hit each other on the ice. And then, I don't know, Schaefer kind of had his. His stick under his arm, but then he hit him so hard, that kid Schaefer's neck went back. I was, like, horrified. And I'm telling you guys, within two seconds, his teammates were on top of him, that guy. And I don't condone violence, but I felt like in that particular moment, like.

[C]

This is a new kid.

[E]

Like, you can't do that. I. I just thought it was, like, horrible, and I just thought it was actually great that his teammates came over and they, like, you know, did it.

[B]

Important, that is. Now, what did you say you were going to call yourself?

[C]

Heather?

[B]

You said you were going to call yourself something on the air. What happened?

[E]

Yeah, so I thought I was gonna, you know, become Heather Babble.

[D]

You know what? I'd say you're two for two in that respect.

[C]

Yeah, that's excellent.

[E]

So should I stop saying Heather from Springfield and say it's Heather Babbles?

[D]

Yeah, I think Heather Babble is exactly right. And we'll know what we're getting when we pick up.

[C]

That's a great character name.

[B]

I think it's. I think you lean into it. Heather.

[C]

Yeah, right. Just don't be offended when you get this.

[D]

Heather.

[B]

It was really nice to meet her. Seriously, like, where we're situated at the Rock. I get the. To meet a lot of fans, and I got to see her on Monday.

[C]

Very cool.

[B]

She was really cool to talk to. But that is really important in hockey. There have been times where whether I'm doing a game with Dave or now with. With Kenny or Bryce, where something egregious happens. There's no call, and then you jump that player and you take a penalty.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And the feeling from fans sometimes is, that was a dumb penalty to take, and you give up a power play goal, and maybe you lose the game. And maybe it's, you know, it's a turning point. But sometimes it doesn't matter. You have to defend your teammate. It's the right thing to do. And when Schaefer was jumped, the Islanders did the right thing. You can't think about committing penalty. You've got to do it.

[C]

Yeah, but you're absolutely right. But you have noticed in sports that that mentality starting to turn because of what you just said.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like, you don't want to take a penalty there. Just let it go and wait till later. Take a number, as they say. But it used to be that if you, you know, if you take out my player, I'm jumping you. And we're gonna go right now. Like, instant accountability. And that's sort of going away.

[B]

No goes away.

[C]

I don't see it in basketball at all. Hard foul. They just lay there. Nobody gets up, nobody gets mad, nothing.

[B]

I know.

[C]

It's just like, no, because I'm gonna get free throws. Why would I give you free throws as well? I'm gonna win because I go to the line. But there's this feeling of, oh, well, he just got away with knocking you on your ass. He was gonna do it again.

[B]

I know. Because there was. There was a time in the NHL where everybody made the playoffs and it really didn't matter. And games in November, who cares?

[C]

I guess so.

[B]

But now you can't have that mentality because right now, the Buffalo Sabres are in last place in the Eastern Conference.

[C]

Sorry, rj.

[B]

They are five points out of a playoff spot.

[C]

That's insane.

[B]

So every game becomes really important. So that dumb penalty you take that leads to a goal, that leads to a loss might be the difference of making the playoffs or not. Like, so. And what do the fans do on. On the air the next day? I can't believe he took that penalty. We lost the game.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, back 30 years ago was like, what does it matter? We're still going to make the playoffs. Who cares? You can't say that anymore. You know, the games. The regular season is very meaningful in the NHL now, more so than it's ever been before, so something you got to pay attention to.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[D]

I don't want to know how the.

[C]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[A]

Here go we more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.