Hour 2: Knicks, Thursday Rewrite, Schoen

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary

Episode: Hour 2: Knicks, Thursday Rewrite, Schoen
Release Date: May 15, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this engaging episode of the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast, hosts Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve into contemporary sports topics centered around the New York Knicks, political influences in sports fandom, and a speculative "Thursday Rewrite" segment exploring an alternate history of sneaker culture.

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2. Politicians and Insincere Sports Fandom

The conversation kicks off with a heated discussion about politicians who adopt sports fandom as a strategic move rather than out of genuine interest.

• Peter Rosenberg expresses frustration, commenting on Mayor Eric Adams' public support for the Knicks:
  "I just hate when politicians do the fake sports stuff. And last night, Eric Adams tweeted Buck Foston. I'm just like, come on, dude, just do your job."
  [00:50]

• Alan Hahn reminisces about former Mayor Ed Koch's authentic Yankees fandom, contrasting it with current political displays:
  "What's really sad is that they actually think that's gonna get people to vote for them. I remember as a kid... my dad would just roll his eyes because he's the mayor. He's gotta be like Ed Koch now."
  [02:19]

• Don Hahn suggests that politicians should support their favorite teams subtly without the performative gestures:
  "Just wear the jacket, wear a hat when you're out in public. That's all."
  [03:50]

The hosts agree that overt displays of fandom by politicians often come off as disingenuous and fail to resonate with the public.

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3. Listener Calls: Knicks Performance and Anthony Towns

The segment transitions to live listener interactions, focusing primarily on the Knicks' recent performances and player evaluations.

• Caller Nick voices disappointment in Anthony Towns' inconsistent play, citing offensive fouls and defensive lapses:
  "Can he set a single hard screen without it being an offensive foul? Dude doesn't space well at all."
  [09:24]

• Don Hahn acknowledges Nick’s frustration, highlighting Towns' potential and the importance of his performances:
  "We've seen games where he's just not there. And that's why Friday night, we all expect Jalen Brunson to show up."
  [10:18]

• Gary Oceanside, another caller, humorously shares his struggles with insomnia but also touches upon coaching decisions:
  "There's a specific play that made me sick... shouldn't a coach grab him by the collar and say, my man, listen."
  [13:57]

• Dave criticizes Coach Thibodeau's ability to motivate Towns, questioning his coaching tactics compared to legendary coaches like Phil Jackson:
  "When people see someone of his caliber... the expectation is to fight through everything."
  [18:38]

The hosts engage in a robust debate about the Knicks' strategies, Towns' role, and Coach Thibodeau's methods, emphasizing the need for consistency and authenticity in both player performance and coaching.

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4. Thursday Rewrite: Michael Jordan and Adidas

In the "Thursday Rewrite" segment, the hosts explore a fascinating alternate history scenario where Michael Jordan opts to sign with Adidas instead of Nike, examining the potential ripple effects on sneaker culture and the NBA.

• Don Hahn outlines the scenario:
  "What if Michael Jordan never signed with Nike and opted for Adidas, which was his favorite shoe?... the Jordan brand is what suddenly took Nike from being... an industry leader."
  [21:42]

• Alan Hahn and Peter Rosenberg discuss the absence of the iconic Air Jordan line, pondering whether sneaker culture would have flourished without Jordan's partnership with Nike:
  "Would there even be a sneaker culture? It's a... totally fair question."
  [25:26]

• The conversation highlights how pivotal Jordan's deal with Nike was in shaping both his personal brand and the broader landscape of sports marketing:
  "He was the first athlete to become a true brand. That's the, that's the difference if you ask me."
  [32:35]

• They also speculate on how Adidas might have leveraged Jordan's talent differently, potentially missing out on creating a cultural phenomenon akin to the Air Jordans:
  "Nike on the shoe. That was the deal... nothing that we've learned today that we know about exists."
  [32:44]

This speculative discussion underscores the profound impact that individual athlete endorsements can have on brand trajectories and cultural trends within the sports industry.

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5. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the intertwined nature of sports, politics, and culture. They emphasize the importance of authenticity in both political endorsements of sports teams and in athletic performance, while also appreciating the significant role that key partnerships, like that of Michael Jordan and Nike, play in shaping the sports landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Peter Rosenberg on politicians' fake sports fandom:
  "Come on, dude, just do your job."
  [00:50]

• Alan Hahn recalling Ed Koch's genuine fandom:
  "I remember as a kid... my dad would just roll his eyes because he's the mayor."
  [02:19]

• Don Hahn on authentic support:
  "Just actions, not words."
  [06:32]

• Caller Nick on Anthony Towns' performance:
  "Can he set a single hard screen without it being an offensive foul?"
  [09:24]

• Don Hahn on Michael Jordan's branding:
  "He was the first athlete to become a true brand."
  [32:35]

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the core discussions of the episode, providing valuable insights into the intersection of sports performance, political influence, and cultural phenomena for listeners who haven't tuned in.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter]

Oh, boy.

[Alan Hahn]

401 of the big city don on in Rosenberg. What's the matter, Peter? Let me talk you through it. What's going on?

[Peter]

I, I just hate, and I know I speak for, for Don on this. I, I not sure where Alan sits, but I'm guessing not far. But I just hate when politicians do the fake sports stuff. And last night, Eric Adams tweeted Buck Foston. I'm just like, come on, dude, just did. Just do your job. We'll just worry about the city. Buddy, chill out.

[Don Hahn]

We get all that. You get it every time.

[Alan Hahn]

This is every time.

[Don Hahn]

We got to like, get the lame. How about when, when the two, whoever the two finalists are, the maze.

[Peter]

Gotta have the bet.

[Don Hahn]

I'll send you all this clam chowder and you'll have to send me some steaks.

[Alan Hahn]

What's really sad is that they actually think that that's gonna get people to vote for them. I mean, people see through that garbage. I remember as a kid not knowing anything about politics, just saying, dad, why is Ed Koch in the Mets dugout wearing a Met hat when they won? And my dad would just roll his eyes because he's the mayor. He's gotta be like Ed Koch now.

[Don Hahn]

Where he was, Giuliani was a real Yankee.

[Alan Hahn]

He was a legit fan.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, that was different, all right.

[Alan Hahn]

And I'm sure a lot of Met fans were upset about how big a Yankee fan he was, but at least it was real. However you feel about him now. I mean, obviously it hasn't aged well in certain circles, but the fact is, I'm just saying you respected the fact that he was a Yankee fan and he stuck to his guns. But a guy that doesn't know anything about sports. Oh, I'm going to put the hat on. It's just, it's just, it's so corny, man.

[Peter]

Every blue moon, every blue moon, a politician comes along. Who you can tell is a real fan of something. Like you said, like Giuliani with the Yankees. It does happen every once in a while, but for the most part, it's always just so fraudulent and annoying. Just. Just lay out, man.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, they can't help. Yeah, that's the chuckle. The media chuckle thing. It's when they start talking to the, like, whoever's. If this year we have a team that's good, and it's all. They say something in there, and you hear all the. All the dopey people behind him.

[Peter]

Oh, man, Adams will be, if they go to the finals this year. The level of insufferable that this man. You know, this is a man who loves to be outside, so he will be out. He might be. He might be outside screaming, bing bong. If they go to the finals.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm just telling you, New Yorkers see through that stuff, man. I actually. If I were their advisor, I would say, you know, you're probably doing more harm than good, honestly. If you're truly into them, then be into. But then be into them all year. When they beat somebody in November, tweet something out. But if you're just gonna lay out, not care, and then all of a sudden, people are starting to care, and then you care, people are gonna see through that garbage.

[Don Hahn]

You know what you do? Just do it subtly. Wear the hat. Wear the hat. Don't say anything if somebody's like, oh, you're rooting for them. Yes. Put up a thumb. Thumbs up. Keep it moving. Keep it moving. You don't. No, no, seriously, just do that. Just show a little support. You don't need to have a press conference and a bet and all this other crap that happens. Don't waste my time with that kind of stuff. But if you want to show support, wear the jacket, wear a hat when you're out in public. That's all.

[Alan Hahn]

But I. But I still think it's corny because, like. All right. Chris Christie, big Matt fan.

[Don Hahn]

Yep.

[Alan Hahn]

He was also a Cowboy fan. I don't like the fact that he was a Cowboy fan, but obviously he must have been a real fan. It's not helping being the governor of New Jersey, admitting you're a Cowboy fan, but I'm like, you know what? He's a fan. Then let him be real.

[Don Hahn]

That was the Blasio Red Sox thing.

[Alan Hahn]

Don't everybody care, then just don't care.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

To jump on the bandwagon. To me, that's a negative.

[Don Hahn]

Agree. That's fraudulent. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So don't do it like So I don't think it's good. Oh, you put the hat on with the thumbs up. Well, you didn't have the hat all year. Well, no idea.

[Don Hahn]

To do something.

[Alan Hahn]

Don't have to do anything as well.

[Don Hahn]

There's some people that do. You know, Don, there are people that go, how come you haven't said anything yet about this important topic to me? People do that.

[Alan Hahn]

Have you. Have you seen what I've been through the last couple of months? People trying to take this job away from me, the impropriety, the problems in the city. I've got a lot of things going on, man. I'm sorry. Go Knicks. But right now, who's gonna get mad at him if he says, like, I'm knee deep in a lot of stuff, I got a lot of balls in the air, I can't fit an NBA ball in. Well, I can't do it.

[Don Hahn]

Jaylen Brown can help you with that.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what? I'm.

[Don Hahn]

Peter.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, again, I'll grab one.

[Don Hahn]

Again, he'll grab two for you.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm saying this about any. I don't care. Republican, Democrat, whatever. It's a blanket for all of them. If you were a fan, then we'd know about it and we'd get it. If all of a sudden you become a fan because, oh, this is what the city cares about. The city cares about the potholes, too. You know what? I don't need my governor in New Jersey. Murphy isn't. I don't know what his allegiance is. He doesn't seem to be doing that. At least that I've noticed. But, like, if Murphy all of a sudden started becoming a Knick fan, I'd be like, dude, there's gonna be a transit strike in seven hours, man.

[Don Hahn]

Focus, focus. Get locked in. We got this. You gotta get me home Friday.

[Alan Hahn]

I. I can. I can get all caught up in the sports and stuff, because that's my job. Your job is to make sure that I don't have three hours of traffic tomorrow getting to work because there's no trains.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. There's actual there. I can't count the sinkholes on Route 80. All right? So if. So, you know what? Fix that.

[Peter]

Oh, fix that. You don't get that every day.

[Alan Hahn]

And again, I'm just. I'm only using Murphy as an example because I'm in New Jersey. Murphy hasn't done this that I've even noticed. But, like, if Murphy all of a sudden just jumped on, if the Devils are making a run and decided to run around in the devil Jersey of, like, all right, Corny, fix the problems, right? I'm in New York City. The fact that Mayor Adams is a Nick Fanny. It's completely irrelevant.

[Don Hahn]

A civic pride thing, man. That's all. It's just a civic pride.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just saying, actions, not words. Too busy, Right? Actions, not words. Like a pin. A pin with the logo, a hat. Just actions, not words. And if somebody says anything, you just do a little thumb. But yeah, yeah. Always supporting them, and that's it.

[Peter]

No, by the way, don't give me.

[Don Hahn]

Any phony oh, and then start naming names or pretend you know the history. Stop it. Don't waste my time. Just actions, not words.

[Peter]

It's even easier than that, honestly. You could really just. You can still go to the games. You can be at the game, clap, have a good time. Oh, yeah, of course. I'm the mayor. I'm here. I'm happy. Oh, how into it are you? Oh, you know, listen, it's our city. I root for everything. I'm psyched to be here. You don't have to pretend to be bigger than that.

[Alan Hahn]

But it does that. But doesn't it have the feel of, everybody hates me, but if I put the Nick fan neck hat on, they'll like me? Dude, no shot. I know people in New York, right? If they hate him, it doesn't matter. They're gonna hate you anyway. You know what? Because the civic pride. But they also have a civic pride of just wanting their city to function in the way they think it should function. So if they hate a politician, believe me, all of a sudden, they find out they root for him. Really? Again, I don't want to get too knee deep in the politics, but if you hated Biden or Trump and all of a sudden he had the favorite. Your favorite team's hat on, is that going to sway you? And if it does, you're a moron.

[Don Hahn]

Still, when I decided he didn't want to have parades, so. The Knicks have never had a championship parade, by the way.

[Alan Hahn]

Didn't have 1 in 70 or 73.

[Don Hahn]

Only sports team in New York that won a championship and never had a parade.

[Peter]

Don supports that, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Never had a parade.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't like parades, but I get that you want one. If you want a champion, you don't like parades.

[Don Hahn]

But you got to understand the canyon of heroes. I mean, that's. That's an iconic thing. If you win a championship in New York.

[Alan Hahn]

So the Mets.

[Don Hahn]

That's like the biggest iconic thing Mets.

[Alan Hahn]

Got it in 69. So it must have been a quick turnaround because then by the next year.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, no, it was.

[Alan Hahn]

But why did Lindsey okay with the Mets in 69?

[Don Hahn]

It was a way he felt like financially it was not something he wanted.

[Alan Hahn]

To invest a lot of money to clean up.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, yes. But you know the city in the early 70s. I don't know if you know this. Oh, listen, it's not in a good place economically. Yeah, Drop Dead.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Drop Dead. Oh, my God.

[Don Hahn]

One of the best headlines ever.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't even know. I don't even really think he said that.

[Don Hahn]

But.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, it was the sentiment of.

[Don Hahn]

Right, right. He insinuated Drop Dead. It made, you know, you needed the economy of words. That and Dewey beats Truman are two of the best headlines ever. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, for sure. But. And then again, nothing beats the headless man and topless bar. Well, I mean, it didn't have the same relevancy.

[Don Hahn]

What newspaper was that one?

[Alan Hahn]

That was the Post. That was the Peter's favorite newspaper. That's right. Peter purchased it digitally.

[Peter]

Now I pay for everything I can.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure. Let's go to Nick in Brooklyn. You get the 4 o' clock hour started here on ESPN New York. What's up, Nick?

[Caller]

Hey, fellas. Been listening for a little bit today. Hope I'm not beating a dead horse. Just wanted to say, like, I'm so disappointed with Carl. Anthony Towns, I guess is what I should have expected. But can he set a single hard screen without it being an offensive foul? Like, seriously, what else is there to say? Dude doesn't space well at all. I mean, maybe that's a part of the game plan. Maybe that's a Tibbs thing. I don't know. And on defense, I really think when he screws up on defense, I think the guys ice him out on offense. Like they don't trust him with the ball in the post, kind of rightfully so. I don't know who should I be blaming here? Cat himself. I know, Han, you may feel that way. Brunson Tibbs. Like, is the $50 million better spent on two better supporting players for Brunson in the off season than Cat if you're not really going to use them in five out lineups? That's it.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I got you, Nick. Yeah. No, and then your frustration is warranted and it should be. You know, again, this is a guy that is a. Is a big trade and he has had games where you've just. It's been breathtaking the way he can shoot the basketball at his Size. And he's had games where it's like 29 and 15, and he barely breaks a sweat. Then he has games like last night, where it's like, okay, close it out. Let's see. Give me your best. And he just isn't there. And that's the stuff that makes you crazy, because, you know you're looking for that second star that can give you those epic performances to help you win. And that's why Friday night, we all expect Jalen Brunson to show up, right? We all agree?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

11 will be there.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

All right. Anthony Towns also has.

[Alan Hahn]

They're going to need him.

[Don Hahn]

He has to be there. No excuses.

[Alan Hahn]

Mervyn Queens. What's up, man?

[Don Hahn]

What's going on, fellas?

[Alan Hahn]

What's happening?

[Caller]

I had to take three. I had to take three Ambien last night to go to sleep.

[Don Hahn]

Know that?

[Alan Hahn]

Lucky to still be with us.

[Don Hahn]

You slept. You slept, Merv. Barely. Barely.

[Caller]

Barely, man. Forget about my prostate and go into the bathroom nine times.

[Alan Hahn]

We'll talk about that another night.

[Caller]

Peter, is there certain things, man? Like, don't you want to see Thibodeau get a technical? And there was, like, specific, like, the pregnant pauses of OG when he gets the ball, like when he wants to shoot the threes, right? There was one specific play that made me sick. And I know everybody's killing Towns right now, and I'm also going to kill him a little. Shouldn't a coach grab him by the collar and say, my man, listen. Absolutely. No complaining, not one bit. I watched Al Horford back down. There was a specific play where he backed down, like, five times. Bang, bang, bang. Way up. Then I watched Keith Van Horn kit eight blocks in a reverse dunk. Should we do this tomorrow? I don't want to go. I'm going to die by Monday. Alan, what if you could be the coach or Don? Peter, is there specific, like, you saw, like, how locked in, like, sometimes Horford is? You see, he's old. Porzingis is out. Because I. I think tonight you got Merv again.

[Alan Hahn]

This.

[Don Hahn]

This goes back again to. Yeah, we are. We are regular people. Those guys are professional athletes. Al Horford is a champion in college and in the NBA. He's also a veteran. He's a guy that organized a meeting with his players, and they talked about making sure that they don't. They go out on their shield. And so he had to lead the way. There's not much gas left in his tank, it's obvious. But he knew I had to conjure one more. I got to give it all I got because I got to lead the way. So he gave you one of those types of performances he didn't do a ton of. But he gave everything he had. That team did that guys stepped up. That's just a reality. You're asking them to do that three times. I'm sorry, I. That's why I don't. I'm not worried. This is. I'm not. I don't think the Celtics can take this. Can the Knicks give it away? That's a completely different question because the.

[Alan Hahn]

Knicks played poorly, but they also lost by 25 points. So they played better. Didn't you lose by 10? Like, there's still. There's still a margin here.

[Don Hahn]

They play like they did in game four. They probably win that game. Their problem is that they did not play as hard, as physical, as tough, as desperate, all the things as connected. None of that stuff was on the floor in Boston. None of it.

[Alan Hahn]

Better be tomorrow. Gary Oceanside, you're on ESPN New York.

[Caller]

I want to give these comments about Kat and the fact that he's soft and. Oh, Alan, you mentioned it.

[Don Hahn]

And I didn't say he's soft. I said he was. He played soft last night.

[Caller]

Okay, I got. And he played stupid. I don't want to say, but soft. He played stupid. Those spouse and committed was stupid.

[Don Hahn]

Kind of the same.

[Caller]

But let me just get to my main point here. And I've been feeling this way for halfway through the season. I don't know much about Cap. Before he came to the Knicks, thought of watching. Let's see, after the first 15 games. And this guy could do anything on the court. He could drive to the basket.

[Alan Hahn]

We don't know.

[Caller]

Could do everything. Okay. But I think the offense that they're playing is sort of the. The Randall Brunson offense. They've changed his offense at all. To me.

[Don Hahn]

That's not true, Gary. I'm sorry. That's. It's not true, though.

[Caller]

Let me just finish my thought.

[Don Hahn]

Well, your thought is incorrect. I can't let you finish something that is incorrect.

[Caller]

But let me just tell you why I feel that way. Because I don't ever see a play that they develop to get this guy down low. Everyone's watching to see. And I love Brunson. We can't win the championship without him. But when I. I don't think we're using this guy cats properly. We never designed a play to get the ball down low to him. Everyone watches what Brunson.

[Don Hahn]

Gary, Gary, gary. He had 10. He had 11 shots in the paint in game four, he made 10 of them.

[Caller]

Okay, but did they get the ball to him yesterday? Did they even try to pass to him in the paint yesterday? Very little.

[Don Hahn]

Right. Because when. Well, well, I mean, first of all, again, with JHU Holiday on him, pushing him off the post, sometimes he don't. Sometimes he avoids posting up because they're pushing him under his legs. He doesn't like that. So he. He gives up on it quickly, you know, again, you've got to watch how the offense develops, their offense. Remember, Gary, for most of this season, their offense was one of the highest scoring, highest efficient offenses in the NBA. And he was a huge part of that. And he was taking four or five threes a game, shooting at 44% in the playoffs. That has gone away because teams have pressed up on him and he is, he is now starting to drive the ball from the perimeter. They don't want him doing that because he loses the ball a lot on his drive. So they're trying to get on the post up. They're just changing up because of how teams are developing defending him. I don't. What do you want him to do? Put a hand up in the air and go, let's run play two? All right, now everybody clear out. It's not Patrick Ewing, it's. Those days are over where you post up your center and everybody just stays out of the way. They know he's going to get the ball. They're putting guards on him. And then Luke Cornett or Porzingis or Horford again, I hate calling guys out. Josh Hart, who had a great offensive game scoring wise, you know why he did? Because the Celtics wanted him to. They left him open. Cornette had six blocks or seven blocks. You know why? Because he helped off of Hart every time. Because whenever, either Brunson, but mostly Towns got the ball. Cornette was the second big that came in. That is how they were defending him. They were not defending him straight up with a big man. They were defending him with a smaller player who could play physical against him, which he doesn't like. And then when he went into taking a shot to try to shoot over the smaller player, the big man came over to deflect, defend the shot. And instead of him powering up, he was doing a lot of fading. He wasn't up to it in game four, he was up to it. So it's as simple as him deciding one way or another, am I going to play and deal with the physicality and play like a big man or am I going to take fade aways and hope that these shots go in. But that's how they're defending him.

[Alan Hahn]

But there's no way to counter that at all. Is there any way?

[Don Hahn]

I just told you how. What he did in game four, quicker decisions, powering up stronger, not waiting when he catches the ball just to go up strong, elbow somebody in the face.

[Alan Hahn]

So it has nothing to do with coaching is what you're saying.

[Don Hahn]

How can it be? It's a decision that he's making. I love the guy. I really do. He's a sweetheart of a human being. But there are games that we've seen this season where he's just not there mentally, whatever it is. Not as locked in as he needs to be. But how is he being defended? That's how he's being defended. Because I promise you, if Luke Carnet was guarding him out on the perimeter, he'd drive right by him. When Jalen Duran was guarding him in the Pistons series, one on one on the perimeter, he murdered him. But when he was posting up against a smaller player, Beasley was doing it in that series. Others, and then they would bring Durin over. That was a problem because he doesn't see the double coming to the last second. And now all of a sudden, he's shooting over two players. And Thibodeau said, I don't want him shooting over double and triple teams.

[Alan Hahn]

Dave, in the car. You're on espn, New York.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up, guys? Look, I agree with what you're saying with Towns, and I'm not going to be like one of these people who's like, you know, what if Randall was here, etc. But there's the one thing that you can't coach, but you. You have to be able to get into another man in a. In a sporting situation. And here's what I mean. Do you think on what you've seen with the Knicks, do you think that Thibodeau is pulling this guy to the side the way Riley pulled Magic Johnson to the side when Kareem was 38 and saying, hey, man, I need more scoring than you. And then Magic comes back. There's an interview, actually. He says, well, I got to check with Kareem first. I know Riley's like, no, no, no, no, man, I need. So here's the thing.

[Don Hahn]

Dave. Dave, I just. I want. And I. I know what you're saying. And those were the great stories that doesn't exist today. They don't, like, you can't coach these guys that way. The Way they did, way Riley did, and, you know, Phil Jackson, all those coaches from back then, even Popovich, the way he coached the spurs and Tim Duncan and all that stuff, and would ream them out on the bench, that you just can't do that with this, this generation. Now, it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean that Mark Bryant, who's an assistant coach on the team, who was a terrific big man in his day, doesn't mean Mark Bryant isn't getting in his. In his ear about stuff like that and letting them know and trying to, like, you know, like they do that. It's just a much different way that they do it. But I promise you, I agree messages are being sent to him about playing tough and making sure he stays consistent with being locked in, but that, you know, guys just aren't always like that. Some games, it's just, you know, I don't feel like doing it tonight.

[Caller]

Let me just add one more thing. I agree with what you're saying. It's very methodical and I know times have changed. But as a fan, and you notice, all three of you guys know this. When people see someone of his caliber, the money he's making, the expectation is to fight through everything. Footwork, broken fingers, fight through, make it happen. And that's the part right now. I don't know. If he doesn't have a good showing in this next game, it's just going to be. There's going to be business at a moment times 100. I hope the guy just musters up and decides to just take it to the Celtics because what's going to come after if he doesn't, it's just not going to be good.

[Don Hahn]

Can't argue with you there, Dave. I can't. And remember game four? Like I said, he did it in game four. 10 of 11 in the paint, 9 of 9 on layups and dunks. That's what you want him to do, and that's what he can do in this series. But he didn't do it in game five. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. The time continuum has been disrupted, creating an alternate 1985. This is.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, Doc, are you telling me you built a time machine?

[Don Hahn]

The Thursday rewrite. All right, so I wanted to get a little creative with this one, guys, because, you know, I always like to try to keep it, you know, historical in where we are in the calendar. All right. And so what I saw something for this week. Now, it's not a history moment, but it makes you say, let's rewrite the headline of something that led to this. So this week in 2020, Michael Jordan had an autographed. The Nike Air ones that sold. They were back from 1985. Sold for a record 500.

[Alan Hahn]

1985.

[Don Hahn]

Yes. $560,000 in an auction.

[Peter]

Geez Louise.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, that's. You know, that's a wreck for a pair of sneakers that are autographed. Half a million dollars just for that. So I thought, what if Michael Jordan never signed with Nike and opted for Adidas, which was his favorite shoe? And there. This was a real thing. Now, we all saw the Last Dance. He did talk about it a little bit, but he did go through. And there was that movie Air. That was a phenomenal movie that was about. Based on all the stuff that happened, although it wasn't entirely true to fact. But he. The story goes, Nike really made that push. They were desperate. They were trying to. You know, it was obviously Sonny Vaccaro. He was convincing Phil Knight, this is the way we gotta go. And Jordan's parents, especially his mother, convinced him to sign with Nike. But even after his parents said, this is what we want you to do, he actually called Adidas back because he loved Adidas. He wore Converse at unc, but he always wore Adidas favorite sneaker. And he went to Adidas. He's like, this is the Nike deal. If you come even close to it, I'm signing with you guys. And Adidas, which is German company, they were more about soccer and Stan Smiths, and they weren't really into basketball. They didn't think he was tall enough. They had Kareem Abdul Jabbar still signed at the time. Seven foot two. That's a basketball player. Seven, two, guy. Six, six. This is not a basketball player. So they just. They passed.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, my.

[Don Hahn]

What a great decision that was, right? Anyways, but what if Jordan still said Nike's this fledgling company? I don't know. I'm not buying this. I want to go with Adidas. Think about all the things that would be different today. First of all, he's worth billions. His sneaker brand is worth billions. Nike became what they are today because of the Jordan brand and because of Jordan. Like, yes, they were. They started to grow, and they were able to do some things. But the Jordan brand is what suddenly took Nike from being, you know, fourth on the list to being a industry leader. Right. And so if he just goes with Adidas, first of all, what do they look like? Because the Jordan sneaker itself was iconic.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And the Swoosh made it. The logo made it. If he's just. Again, there's Stan Smith. There's no one else that had their name on an Adidas shoe. He wasn't getting his name on it. He was just gonna get an Adidas shoe. What does it look like? What do they design? What do they do? He's happy. He's in Adidas. That's what he likes. So nothing that we've learned today that we know about exists. And I wonder this. Would there even be a sneaker culture?

[Peter]

It's a. It's a. That's a totally fair question. What is this, quote, sneaker culture, if Jordan doesn't sign with Nike.

[Don Hahn]

Right. Would there even be one?

[Peter]

Right. Because. And don't get me wrong, there have been a lot of other iconic sneakers.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. The Converse Cons. And you had. But not a lot. Nothing compared to the Jordan. And the Jordan is what kicked off the idea.

[Peter]

Well, that's.

[Alan Hahn]

To me, it's everybody else name a shoe.

[Peter]

To me, the issue is everything else that is truly notable came after. So what would it have been like? Is there a Bo Jackson? Is there a Ken Griffey Jr. All of these shoes that happened later, they're all post Jordan.

[Don Hahn]

It's really.

[Peter]

Even the. Even the really classic Larry. And aren't the weapons even post Jordan?

[Don Hahn]

No, the weapons were before him. They were 1984.

[Peter]

The first weapons were 84.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't get them till the weapons were the big shoe. And that was, you know, they had everybody converse at all the stars. And so I'm just like, like, you know, Nike Air was a thing, obviously. And then the Air Force became something that it's.

[Peter]

It says. It says here, and this is just the Internet, it says the weapons were 86.

[Don Hahn]

I thought they were 84.

[Peter]

No, I don't think so.

[Don Hahn]

86.

[Peter]

So that means he even pretty.

[Don Hahn]

Same. Same time.

[Peter]

Yeah, but. No, but the original Jordan's 85, isn't it? Let's see.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, well, he was rookie. He was a rookie that year. 84. 85. So that deal happened later in his rookie. Rookie year. Right after. He's Rookie of the year April.

[Peter]

85.

[Don Hahn]

But think about this David Falk, who was his agent at the time, their hopes were that by the fourth year that maybe the company that Nike was going to earn about 3 million in the first year. The Air Jordan made them 126 million. They were only hoping to get to 3 million in four years. They got 126 million in one year.

[Alan Hahn]

That's incredible.

[Don Hahn]

It's just an incredible what it's worth now. I mean, he has earned around like, almost like 1.5 billion off of those sneakers. He still gets, I think, about 5% from Air Jordan, and that just continues on. So I just rewrite the headline. He's adamant. As a kid, I love Adidas. It's what I always dreamed about wearing. And Nike is this fledgling company. I don't know if I trust them. They have this plan, and I know they want to give me all this ownership and everything else, and my parents are into it. But I'll tell you what, I'm not. Just. Just give me the Adidas. Give me the Adidas. And he leaves Nike on the doorstep.

[Alan Hahn]

And.

[Don Hahn]

And Nike probably from there goes, all right, well, now what? Like, where do they even go from there? And so do we have a sneaker culture? Does Jordan. Is Jordan. Jordan? Because Michael Jordan was a great player, obviously, but there was something about the sneaker that turned him into royalty. Even before he was winning championships, he became otherworldly. And by the way, him being on the 92 Dream Team was the linchpin. None of it works if he's not on that team. You agree or disagree? Doesn't work if he's not on that team.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, you had iconic players, but he was the biggest player and he.

[Don Hahn]

Had to be on it. Otherwise, what's the use? Well, we'll have a bunch of old guys going, but we needed Jordan on the team, and they convinced him to go.

[Peter]

And he mean in terms of it. In terms of it being.

[Don Hahn]

It had to work. Barcelona, they were rock stars, but I.

[Peter]

Think they would have won.

[Alan Hahn]

They would have won either way.

[Don Hahn]

It's not about winning. It's about the. The. The intensity of that team and the impact they had on international basketball.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Well, my presence.

[Peter]

Larry and Magic at that point had already taken the turn to older. It had. It had to be Jordan.

[Alan Hahn]

He was the star of.

[Don Hahn]

That wasn't big enough, right? You didn't have. They were big, but they weren't that big. They still would have had a following, but Jordan being there turned them into the Beatles. And so Jordan had a royalty about him because of this sneaker. And it continues on. There's a legacy in basketball because of that sneaker, and there's a fashion culture because of that sneaker, all because of a decision he made influenced by his parents. To trust two people in Beaverton, Oregon who had no reason, you had no reason to believe him. And all he had to do. And he admitted it. There's a great quote where he said, I still went back even after they had offered me and I was ready to sign before I signed. I went back to Adidas and I just said, all you got to do is come close and I'll sign with you. And Adidas said, no. What if crazy again. Rewrite the headline. He signs with Adidas. Where are we today?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, the question you brought it up. Would they put his name on the shoe or would it be like they're. No, no, they wouldn't.

[Don Hahn]

Nike on the shoe. That was the deal. That was the deal.

[Alan Hahn]

And so that would not have.

[Don Hahn]

Only Stan Smith had his name on an Adidas.

[Alan Hahn]

So it was never. There wasn't going to be a sneaker culture. Would have somebody else come along. Peter. That would have made it happen. Like there were other great iconic athletes that signed with Nike. But would they have had the same traction that Michael had? And also what it did for the NBA too. And just everything about fashion together.

[Don Hahn]

They were only allowed to wear white sneakers, right? They weren't wearing colored different. Like, you know, he had the colorways. And that's the whole of course commercial campaign which is again brilliant, is that Nike said, we'll pay the fine because the league was gonna find him. But every game he wore those red and blacks. They find him every game. And Jordan's like, I can't wear them. And they said, no, no, no, we're gonna pay the fine. It's worth it to us. It's brilliant.

[Alan Hahn]

And it's hard for a younger culture, a younger audience to wrap their mind around the NBA at the time in the mid-80s, where it wasn't as relevant as it was now. So you think of now the sneaker culture develops. All of it benefits the NBA. And what keeps coming to my mind is the scene to do the right thing. But bugging out his Jordans get stepped on, right? Guys in a Celtic jersey. It becomes a whole thing with Giancarlo Esposito, who then becomes. He was in things before that, but that. That was like a really big movie for him. But that was all benefited the NBA. Like that scene doesn't happen and there is no Celtic jersey. There's no conversation. It really just elevated the NBA. It elevated Jordan and he wins the championships and it all kind of comes together. But listen, Jordan would have been fine because he was still won the championships anyway.

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't change his career arc, but it's the other part that he had became. Think about it. He was the first athlete to become a true brand. Other athletes had endorsements, but he became a true brand and that changed sports culture. That's the, that's the difference if you ask me. Yeah, you can't, you can name different athletes that had like Muhammad Ali had endorsements. He was a name, he was a famous name. But Jordan was the first brand, right?

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

It's funny decision.

[Peter]

There are other athletes that are in the category like, like we mentioned yesterday, the huge, huge stars, but they didn't have the brand.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter]

You know, and, and the brand is because, I mean, yes, Air Jordan sounds awesome. Like that's, there's a lot of good things that happened here. It's a perfect storm. But the sneaker is obviously such a huge part of now.

[Don Hahn]

Saw some markups on, on social media of like Air Jordan, Adidas. Like what it would have looked like if they did the same exact thing, but they were Adidas. Horrific, Awful. Nobody would have bought those.

[Alan Hahn]

It would have just. And it just made sense because of the fact that the sport that he played too. Sneakers, basketball, like Bo Jackson was enormous, right?

[Don Hahn]

It was.

[Alan Hahn]

And if there was no, if Bo had become the next guy, that would have certainly helped the cause. But you don't think.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not buying cleats.

[Alan Hahn]

You're not buying cleats, right?

[Peter]

No. Well, the Bo sneakers were big.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

But very big.

[Don Hahn]

But you get the point though.

[Alan Hahn]

He's not wearing them as a royal. He's not wearing them as a Raider.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And also as great as he was, he wasn't Michael Jordan because his career didn't, you know, when it's. Once he injured his hip, it was over. Like there weren't rattling off a bunch of championships. Like the Raiders didn't win Super Bowls, the Royals didn't win a bunch of World Series. He didn't go to the White Sox and become iconic like he was. It was almost a very disappointing career professional wise for this icon. So did that help too? You know, Jordan goes out and wins six championships in eight years.

[Don Hahn]

Help to win.

[Alan Hahn]

You know that, that, that helps. And on national television all the time. But he's wearing the sneaker during the game. The commercials can show highlights of him in the game.

[Don Hahn]

And then the commercials were insane.

[Alan Hahn]

All the Nike, but the Bo Jackson ones were iconic too.

[Don Hahn]

Those are very good.

[Alan Hahn]

But no Bono's hockey skating around in the Montreal Canadian, that has nothing to do with Nike sneakers. Right?

[Don Hahn]

It's true.

[Peter]

It's a great point.

[Don Hahn]

But it's wild as well.

[Alan Hahn]

That's good. That's creative.

[Don Hahn]

There you go. That is very Thursday rewrite. Oh, we got a call on this. 800 now and nine, three, seven, seven.

[Alan Hahn]

Go for it, man.

[Don Hahn]

Ed's in Massapequa. Go ahead. Yes, sir.

[Caller]

Let's talk about that.

[Don Hahn]

No worries.

[Caller]

All right. So, love this, Alan.

[Don Hahn]

I've never heard a radio host talk.

[Caller]

This way about Jordan. Jordan's amazing six championships.

[Don Hahn]

Can't argue with it.

[Caller]

But the reason he is the no.

[Alan Hahn]

Debate goat in so many people's minds.

[Caller]

Is because it was the beginning of nationally televised sports center with sneakers. It was the whole brand.

[Alan Hahn]

As Peter's saying now, he's great, but he literally is coming off of Kareem and Magic and Bird and you people.

[Caller]

Were calling him the goat after one chip.

[Alan Hahn]

How does that happen? Could you imagine if Anyone dared call LeBron the goat after his first chip?

[Don Hahn]

Some tried to. Everybody was awesome. Yeah. But that's the thing is. And that's. That's why this generation is trying so hard to take LeBron and put him above Jordan, because they didn't get to see Jordan live. And they can't believe the things that we say because they think it's all myth. And you realize there is no LeBron without Jordan.

[Alan Hahn]

And also, I don't think, you know, I'm old enough to remember life before Jordan. I don't. I don't remember championships being as important when talking about how iconic a player.

[Don Hahn]

Magic and Bird until Jordan, I think that was the. I'll push back and say, because I grew up in that. I grew up in the pre Jordan Magic, Bird era watching those, watching that. And what I remember about that was because they were such fierce rivals in college and faced each other and then, right. Indiana State, Bird lost, right? And for Bird, he took it personal. And it was this. They got into the league together, and it's just they were trying to one up each other. And the fact that they didn't meet the first two times both guys won championship. They didn't meet each other then when they finally met that first time.

[Alan Hahn]

No, of course.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, that was like, who's gonna have more championships, Bird or Magic? And that's when I think the championship things started to become real. And that's why Jordan became great late 80s. And the first knock on him was, yeah, but you got to win a championship if you want to get to the level of Magic and Bird. That's when the rings culture truly began. We just didn't know it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it's really, really interesting stuff. 1-800-919-3776 Coming up, Joe Shane had some very interesting, this is interesting. We want to dive into. And of course the Knicks are the big story of the day. Juan Soto makes his, you know, return to Yankee Stadium tomorrow. That's the topic conversation. He had some things to say to John Heyman. All that's on the table on Don Hun and Rosenberg on 880 ESPN New York and the ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

All right everybody. Every team will tell you how important defense is to winning. The Knicks certainly should tell you the same could be said though for a good business. The truth is 1/3 of businesses will unwittingly turn over their sensitive company data to thieves this year. We don't want turnovers, but they do happen in an instant. Your customer files, bank accounts, everything is compromised and you won't know until the million dollar ransom demand hits your email nightmare. Preventing data turnovers is why your business needs Thrive, the leading managed security services provider in the US it all starts with a comprehensive Thrive Cyber risk assessment drive. Security analysts identify security gaps and deliver proactive solutions to help you keep your network healthy and protected. Listen, it's not a matter of if, it's when. Are you ready? Get your no obligation security recommendations and consultation. Your business relies on it. Visit thrivenextgen.com espn that's thrive nextgen.com espn thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

But Addict's Best is making its return to New York City this summer at the Javits center on Friday, June 20 through Sunday, June 22. You'll be there, Peter. Usually it's these things.

[Peter]

I think we're all going to be there. How about that?

[Alan Hahn]

I'm looking forward to it. A three day celebration where sports culture and collecting collecting converge. Bringing fans together. Sure. I just, I got a coffee stain on this. Closer to their favorite athletes in sports leagues than ever before. With appearances from your favorite athletes, celebrities and entertainers, live podcasts and a full schedule of panel featuring the most recognizable names in sports like Don Han and Rosenberg. You can enter to win a four pack of tickets on the ESPN New York app and find contest tiles to submit your entry. Adult and ticket tickets are available now@fanatics fest.com all right Joe Shane, by the.

[Don Hahn]

Way, real quick here. Yeah, don't, don't don't just glaze over. The fact that Jake played my Adidas.

[Alan Hahn]

I heard it.

[Don Hahn]

Very timely.

[Peter]

Just more good work by him.

[Don Hahn]

But. But there's more to it.

[Peter]

Go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

On this day. Oh, the album dropped on this day. How about that?

[Peter]

So he double connected it.

[Don Hahn]

I like that.

[Peter]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

Very impressive.

[Alan Hahn]

Jake's good that way. Very talented kid.

[Don Hahn]

He's trying to buy you time, that's all. Go ahead. As you were.

[Alan Hahn]

So Joe, Shane was on up at Adams.

[Don Hahn]

Yes. Hey, Adams vehicle, right.

[Alan Hahn]

Although was she on it today? Because it didn't look like her.

[Don Hahn]

What do you mean? I was definitely her.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Different look.

[Don Hahn]

She's.

[Alan Hahn]

Maybe she's trying something new.

[Don Hahn]

Different filter. Change the filter, maybe.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm a fan. Okay, so she was asked or she asked the question was Dart Joe, your choice?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it was an organizational decision. Any player that we take, it's a collaborative process and it's very detailed and we believe in it.

[Alan Hahn]

So.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Jackson's a guy that was on the radar throughout the fall. We were able to see play a lot. Spent a lot of time with him at the Senior bowl, you know, as well this spring. So it helps when the head coach is, you know, has an offensive background and has a history with developing quarterbacks. And then you throw in a Mike Kafka, who was there for Patrick Mahomes rookie year where he only played one game, and he got to see that development. And Shay Tierney, our quarterback coach. So three coaches on staff that have been a part of, you know, the development of two pretty good quarterbacks in the league right now. And when they're convicted on a player and the scouting staff's convicted on a player, typically you have the best chance for success in those situations.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, here's how I translate that. You guys tell me if I'm right or wrong, okay? Two things that I garnered from that.

[Don Hahn]

I have a translation too.

[Alan Hahn]

The first one is John Mara probably gave him a directive, give me a quarterback. Number two is. And I. There's different types of general managers. Joe Shane seems like the kind of guy is like, listen, I'm going to get my head coach the quarterback that he wants. So my belief is I like Jackson Dart. But you know what? I like the other quarterbacks too. But my head coach told me, I want Jackson Dart. My job is to give my head coach what is best equipped to help him win. And that's why he said it's a collective. So it tells me that it's irrelevant what he thought of Jackson Dart. My head Coach wanted him. My owner wanted a quarterback. That's why he said that it was collaborative instead of owning that he wanted Jackson Dart.

[Don Hahn]

All right, I'm on that vibe, but a little different.

[Alan Hahn]

Interesting.

[Don Hahn]

I think what he was being careful to not do was act like this was his sole choice. What he wanted to make sure he did was give credit to Brian Dable and instead of separating the two, to say, in fact, this was a collab. He liked him. I like them. We all, we all put our work in. So everybody is in lockstep. We're all together. It wasn't like that was my guy. All of us, he was our guy. We were all like. Like, there's no. There was no dissension. There's no. He wanted this one, but somebody else wanted this guy. Like, we were all in lockstep on this player. That's what it felt like to me. He was trying to say he didn't want to take all the credit. Right. He wanted to say that this collectively, we put the work in and this is our guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And then I think that's the new age way of doing things. We hear that with the jets all the time. Everything's collaborative. It's not just one voice. You know, Brian Cashman will say the same. Oh, we all get together. Our Tampa people got together with it. Like, nobody ever is going to take the credit.

[Peter]

Part of that is no one state the blame.

[Alan Hahn]

Nobody wants to take the blame. You're right. I was gonna. I was gonna. I was gonna get exactly to that. It's.

[Don Hahn]

It's.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. Hey, at the end of the day, you know, I'll. Maybe I'll get the credit, maybe I won't. But what I. One thing I want to do is if things completely fails that I.

[Peter]

Organizational.

[Alan Hahn]

No one person gets the blame. No one person gets the credit. Now, maybe people can read into that as well. Shane and Dable are attached to the hip. I don't. Because I don't think they're attached at the hip. I could see a world where Shane stays and Dable goes, but I just think it's, hey, I'm going to give my coach. Well, if I've got a coach that's known for being a quarterback whisperer, aren't I going to lean on? Who do you. Who. Of course, Coach.

[Don Hahn]

Of course, you know, you do. That's why you make it a collaborative. You trust him and his eye.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, if there's an issue, guys, where he hated Jackson Dart, thinks he's a bum, then maybe there's going to be a little pushback. But if you're like, hey, listen, there's a couple of quarterbacks I like, I like Jackson Dart, but, you know, maybe I like this guy or that guy because I don't think he likes Sanders. But just for an example, let's say he did. And then your head coach says, you know what, I can win with Jackson.

[Peter]

Darp, then I think it's your responsibility.

[Alan Hahn]

As general manager to get your coach what he needs.

[Don Hahn]

Isn't it the same reason why they passed on J.J. mcCarthy? Yes. The fact that they put a lot of work into him and there was a glider relationship and they will actually like McCarthy. They got. They had a really good exchange, they had some good chemistry, but in the end they all agreed collectively, we could take him here, but we don't believe in him to make that pick and pass on a guy like Malik.

[Alan Hahn]

Neighbors and Kay also asked Joe, when did you know Dart was your guy?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, the week of the draft. You know that the Monday before the draft, we had a final meeting and, you know, it's like, now we have all the information. We've seen these guys multiple times. We've spent, you know, we've had dinners with them, we've been on campus, we've done private workouts, and we really sat down. And as the draft gets closer, you really start to narrow your circle. You want to eliminate outside voices. So my leadership group, along with a couple of coaches and we went through our final rankings and that's when we started to devise a plan. You know, whether we'd, you know, go with, you know, a player at three and then potentially tried to trade back into the first round. We had a pretty good idea that Abdul would be there at three. And then, you know, what were the other scenarios where, you know, we could potentially acquire Jackson?

[Don Hahn]

It's amazing that everything is about the quarterback guys. Everything is about this.

[Alan Hahn]

But I do believe that John Mara said to them, just make sure when this is all said and done, you get me a quarter.

[Don Hahn]

I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. And wouldn't you.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I mean, I think every.

[Don Hahn]

The COVID was bare.

[Alan Hahn]

Why do you think they're getting so many props for the draft that they had? Because I think everybody looked at, you know, is there going to be a quarterback at 3? Maybe, maybe not. And then clearly the way that you saw Sanders dropped, the answer was not. But to be able to trade back in, get the quarterback, I think Dart was one of those guys that, unlike Daniel Jones, was on a lot of people's radar as we got closer to the draft that he was going to rise up. He was a guy, oh, maybe second round, maybe first round, maybe top 15. And then you end up getting him at 24. I think they had a good draft, but ultimately we'll see how it works out. The other thing that I garnered from all this is I think the plan is not. Not to see him this year. That's what they're hoping. That if they're winning games and Wilson plays well, I think they're okay. If the season ends up being productive enough where you know what? We didn't get to see Jackson Dart, that I think that's okay.

[Don Hahn]

Wouldn't that be everybody's plan?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

That things are going well enough. But if you're, you know, if you're staring at December and you're only at three wins, then it doesn't make sense to. Not unless he's not ready.

[Alan Hahn]

But if he's ready, then it would be foolish.

[Don Hahn]

You'll know if he's ready.

[Alan Hahn]

But you went and got two veteran quarterbacks because your plan is.

[Don Hahn]

I'm still one.

[Alan Hahn]

That I. That we would like to have a successful enough season that we're playing meaningful games in December and that we're not going to have to go to dark.

[Don Hahn]

I'm still wondering, isn't there a possibility.

[Peter]

Alan, that they didn't know what their plan was at that moment?

[Don Hahn]

Well, you could tell they were scrambling.

[Peter]

They got both. I don't know that they knew what the plan.

[Don Hahn]

I think the reality is that they got themselves insurance with two vets, but I don't think they plan on keeping both because. Are you telling me that Jackson Dart is going to be QB3 and have a clipboard and not even like be like he's. They're going to stash him.

[Alan Hahn]

I think the plan was that we're going to get a quarterback, but we're going to get a quarterback either trading back into the first round or getting them with our first pick in the second round. And the intention is going to be he's going to be a project. He doesn't have to play. Let me get two veterans because I don't want to go to the Tommy DeVito route again.

[Don Hahn]

No, please.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. So let me get two veterans.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

That way he is our third quarterback. If the guys do their job, he remains our third quarterback. If one of them were to get hurt, we still have a veteran starting. Because I think the plan was we're not going to draft the quarterback where there's going to be a ton of pressure to play him right away. If you take a quarterback at three, well, that guy's going to be your opening day starter. Right? I mean, you trade, you drafted him at 3, drafting him at 24 with two veteran quarterbacks. I think they knew they were getting a quarterback whether it was dart. Maybe they didn't know it was definitely going to be dart, but I think they knew they were getting a quarterback that there wouldn't be a lot of pressure to have to play him right away, make sure that we don't have to by having the two veterans.

[Don Hahn]

It could be an Atlanta situation. You never know. Could be a situation where they, you know, they was a Pennix, right? They, they drafted him after signing Cousins and Cousins, what the hell are we doing here? And because we don't think, we don't know if you're going to make it through this whole thing. And we got a guy for the next. And then he was ready in the middle of the season.

[Alan Hahn]

So to answer your question, Peter, I think there was a plan whether it was definitely dart, but I think they knew they were either going to trade back into the first round or take a quarterback with their first pick in the second round. And they would have. And I think everybody knew Sanders was going to drop. I don't think that came as a surprise to anybody because they all talk to him and they, and they're not saying anything. Nobody was going to tell you at the time that they thought he was going to drop, but I think they knew Sanders was going to be there and they weren't going to be other quarterbacks that were going to be there and. But that's also why everyone darts the guy.

[Peter]

And now everyone's so high off of this entire thing because they desperately needed a quarterback and it turned out they got one they can actually be excited about.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I, I think because they were.

[Peter]

Going to get someone.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to my Don Han and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN9 New York app and your smart speakers.