← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Hour 2: Knicks Win & Fraud Alert Friday
00:54:49
Don, Hahn & Rosenberg on ESPN NY
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- [00:01]
Don Hahn
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:05]
Alan Rosenberg
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:06]
Don Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.
- [00:14]
Alan Rosenberg
401 in the big city. Don Han, Rosenberg. Key able to 6:00. Then it's Mets, Nationals, a lot of good going on. Yankees in first, Mets in first. Winning seven in a row. And the Knicks are up two games to one in their best of seven series. And Allen, to say a lot happened last night would be an understatement. Man. A lot of good, good, some bad, but they survive. They blow a double digit lead in in the second half, but they win the game. And I guess where do we begin? We begin with the play. We begin with the crowd leaving early. We get, get the crowd getting on Jalen or what really everybody wants to talk about is what happened with the clock at the end of the game.
- [00:51]
Peter
Yeah, I guess we start with the end, right. And what happened there because that, that has been something everybody's been talking about. And even when it was happening in real time, like Mike Breen and I both were, just the minute you heard the buzzer, when he, he, you know, he purposely misses the free throw. Now first and foremost, do you guys agree with that philosophy?
- [01:11]
Alan Rosenberg
Yes.
- [01:11]
Peter
The thinking is 5/10 of a second left on the clock. You make the first, it's a two point game and then you just like to me, you just chuck it off the front rim as hard as you can.
- [01:21]
Allen
He wanted front rim. Which would have ended the game.
- [01:23]
Alan Rosenberg
No, All I know is the moment I said miss.
- [01:26]
Peter
Right. But keep in mind the clock doesn't start until the ball touches a player, not the rim. So it is not like you could just throw it in the air. It's got to, it's, it's got to be in play. That's why a player has to, it has to be rebounded.
- [01:42]
Allen
Well, that's why you want front rim. You assume then by the time it comes back, someone touches it, there's nothing you can do.
- [01:47]
Peter
Nothing they can do. Right. There's nothing. And you know, you just worry about whistles and all that crap, but you're just going to throw it as hard as you can even if you can't catch it. Because you, you do technically have the ability to catch and shoot, but it's incredibly difficult from 94ft away.
- [02:01]
Alan Rosenberg
Of course.
- [02:02]
Peter
So you agree the miss on purpose. Because after that all happened, we all started wondering, maybe you should just make the shot and it's three, you're up. You know you're up three. They inbound with five, 10th with zero chance to do anything.
- [02:16]
Alan Rosenberg
But I still feel like you want to miss because there's still a better chance, even though the chances are so slim that they. They can get a play off for three. Know exactly what they're going to do when a ball is.
- [02:30]
Peter
They didn't have a timeout, Don. They didn't have a timeout. So it's live ball.
- [02:33]
Alan Rosenberg
No, I get it. But if he hits the shot, they're going to inbound it.
- [02:37]
Peter
Yeah, but it's. What are you doing? It's a scramble. You're just running and hoping to catch it.
- [02:41]
Alan Rosenberg
You're running and hoping to catch it as opposed to. I don't know where I'm rebounding, the ball, where I'm facing. Once I grab it, it's over.
- [02:49]
Allen
If you do it right.
- [02:49]
Peter
Yeah, it's a fair point.
- [02:50]
Alan Rosenberg
You know that. Listen, we're talking about 1% to like a half percent. Like, it. It's not happening either way. But I would just. Look, I would think the greater chance of a freak play would be if I'm inbounding rather than rebounding. Now, I guess there's could be a scenario where the rebound is just so pure that I get a better look. But really, what are the odds of that?
- [03:10]
Peter
No, I mean, again, it's. It's. It's. All the scenarios that we're discussing are things that I can tell you from talking to people in the league. So after the game, like, there was so much chatter about it. They had the. The crew chief, Zach Zarba, come out and explain both situations, including the backcourt thing that we'll get to with. That was with, like, what was it? With eight seconds left, whatever it was. But the clock was a clock malfunction. Now, here's the problem. So, okay, the. At the scores table, somebody hit the button too soon. It hit the front rim, they hit the button. That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to wait till it touches fingertips. Those, by the way, are Pistons employees. See, it used to be. And this is where I was wrong, because. And I'm glad I didn't say it on the air, but I had been. I had said it to others. That's a neutral group because in the playoffs, it used to be the NBA brings in like. Like, the Cavs will use someone from Chicago, and Chicago will use somebody from Detroit. Detroit will use somebody from, you know, whatever the nearby cities are. Indiana will go up and play and work the Detroit's games, you won't get the home team people because you want it to be unbiased.
- [04:28]
Alan Rosenberg
Right?
- [04:29]
Peter
The league stopped doing that, and now it's only for the finals that they do, you know, a neutral group. So that now leads to what a lot of the Knick players were saying after the game, which was, they gave their team a chance. Here's the weird rule. All right, so obviously, I'll try to quickly explain in that situation. The rule in the NBA is the minute the ball touches a hand, if the. If there's a dead ball situation, you have to, by rule, take 3/10 of a second off the clock. They have. They have this rule that Any play is 3/10 of a second, but in that case, for whatever reason, when it's a clock malfunction, they don't take the three tenths off. So it stayed at five, which is bizarre. But that's the. And that's where Tom Thibodeau and the Knicks were like, what the hell? You got to put that down to 2/10 of a second, which makes even less of a chance to take up to shoot the ball. But they left it at point five. Then, while doing all this review, the. The Pistons got a timeout that they didn't have because there was a stoppage of play. They drew up a play which they shouldn't have had time to do. They inbound the ball. Now, again, the basketball God said, to hell with this, and Jalen Duran threw the ball away. So there was no chance that happened. But I'm telling you, in the league, when that was happening in real time, I was told there were a lot of people freaking out, saying if they make some miracle shot right here, we are screwed. How do you explain this rule? So I promise you, this summer, that rule's gonna change now.
- [06:06]
Alan Rosenberg
You know, it's interesting what I flashback to, and again, my memory might be a little foggy, but I think, wasn't there a time in the NHL.
- [06:16]
Allen
All right, let's go.
- [06:17]
Alan Rosenberg
When they used to have the. Where the. Where the light. The goal light. The guy that controlled that was. Used to sit right behind the goal.
- [06:26]
Peter
Goal judge. He sat behind the goal, and he.
- [06:28]
Alan Rosenberg
Used to turn the light on, and they would figure, you know what? No need for this. You know, we can. We can sell these seats. So now it doesn't even exist anymore. But if I remember back in the day, he's going back a ways where, like in the playoffs, they would. They would, like, announce before the game. And the gold judges are from The Minnesota North Star, like, yeah, they would bring in, like, neutral people to do it because you wouldn't want, like, the Garden, the arranger guy, doing that. But then when replay came in, it didn't matter because you couldn't cheat because every goal's reviewed anyway. And I'm sure the NBA was probably thinking. Thinking we don't have to get crazy, because if there's a clock malfunction, we've got the technology to make sure we correct it. So there's no way to get around it. So that's probably why they got away from the neutral guys, because there's no way to. To.
- [07:15]
Peter
To jigger the system. They have. What's called. What's it called? I can tell you in a second. They have a system in place to correct all the clock stuff, right? And it's. So it's. It's not necessarily about that. It's. It's. It's called the precision timing system. That's what it's called. But it wasn't about the time. It was the fact that they didn't take time off. So like I said, maybe you just redo the shot. Like, clock my function replay, right? Like, just. Just do the play over again, right? The shot again. You know, he's missing it. Who cares? You know, he's not trying to make it. And even if he made it again, the game is essentially over, right? So instead, though, they award imminent possession to the Pistons. That was the other part. If the Knicks had gotten that rebound, the game's over, right? But they rewarded imminent possession based on the review. On the review of the play, which allowed them to get the ball and allowed them that mar. You know, fraction of a percentage of a chance to. To try to win the game. That shouldn't have happened. Like, that's the stuff where you say that's a terrible rule, because if you're saying they had possession, take 3/10 of a second off it, just the right. There's no. That is written, needs to be updated. And no one thought about it because no one thought anything of something like this happening. It was a very, very rare, bizarre situation. And, you know, again, the Knicks, it.
- [08:41]
Allen
Worked out fine because they threw it away. But, I mean, if that's enough time for a catch and shoot.
- [08:47]
Peter
Yes, it is.
- [08:48]
Allen
So if Cade Cunningham catches the inbounds in motion and heaves it from half.
- [08:53]
Peter
Court, imagine that he does a Trent Tucker. Could you. I mean, think about it. The. The controversy that would have exploded from that moment would have been, again, how do you feel the league. How do you explain it? And then you're just looking at a major market team like the Knicks and you're just going like, yeah, sorry, that's the rule. But they are going to change it. There's no doubt.
- [09:13]
Alan Rosenberg
And that's because there's no way you can go over every scenario. There's always something that comes up. That's what's great about live sports. Always something you never thought would happen would happen. They'll look at it and hopefully, because the NBA is pretty progressive this way. Change it now.
- [09:28]
Peter
No, they can't now. I think they'll do it when they have their meetings in the off season.
- [09:33]
Alan Rosenberg
See why, if everybody agree now, maybe it's maybe, maybe you can't do it before the next game, but if you start working on it now and saying, we're going to institute this for round.
- [09:43]
Peter
Two, that's not a bad idea. But. But doesn't it bring you back, though, to what I said? If you just make the free throw, the worst they can do is tie. Right? Like missing on purpose is one thing, but if the, if you just make the free throw instead of purposely missing, like you purposely miss, if you're down two and the one doesn't help you, so you do the purposely miss and try to get the rebound and put back or get a foul. But if you're the team that's ahead that one more point, it basically at least guarantees you not to lose the game. You know what I mean?
- [10:20]
Alan Rosenberg
True.
- [10:21]
Peter
It's not like when they inbound the ball and just throw it in the air and the clock runs out because the ball's too high up in the air. Like, I love that play. There's like two seconds left and you throw it in the air before they can foul you. And so the ball's in the air and then like, there's nothing that can happen. The clock just runs out the minute you touch the ball. That's when the clock goes. So to me, make the free throw and you're, you're up three and they can't do anything. They try to inbound it and throw it, you know, 100ft, whatever it is, or, or 50ft if they go to half court. All right, good luck making a miracle shot. And all you're going to do is go to overtime.
- [10:56]
Alan Rosenberg
And the other part of it, too, I'm assuming they're in the penalty. So you do have a chance of it off the rebound. There'd be a foul.
- [11:03]
Peter
Yes.
- [11:04]
Alan Rosenberg
So you got to add that to the mix.
- [11:05]
Peter
Listen, I think it's a lot of things there.
- [11:08]
Alan Rosenberg
Either way, I'm not going to get on whether he made it or didn't.
- [11:12]
Peter
Well, the backcourt thing is what everybody in Detroit's pissed off, so.
- [11:15]
Allen
So, by the way, I understand their argument there, too. Now, that's also a rule. Alan. They couldn't get that. Did they replay it?
- [11:23]
Peter
Yes. No, they didn't have to. The. Well, no, they did watch it back. They did go to replay on it.
- [11:28]
Allen
Okay.
- [11:29]
Peter
And Zarba actually talked to. He was the pool reporter about it and explained it as well. And, you know, you'll love this. It's Rule 4, Section 6G. So you can look that up. Not HG. Yeah, it's a busy one there. But it's essentially that if your momentum takes you into the back court because that's where the pass led.
- [11:52]
Allen
You got it.
- [11:54]
Peter
You kind of are. You. You have that ability.
- [11:57]
Allen
So even if your feet were in.
- [11:59]
Peter
The front court, only one foot, was, not both. And he didn't catch it and then go in the back court. He was running to the ball and momentum carried him into the back.
- [12:10]
Allen
Got it. So if you catch. If you catch the ball with one foot in the front court, but your momentum's already heading to the back court, you're good.
- [12:17]
Peter
Yeah. And what Brunson did, which was pretty heady, is that he knocked the ball down, not catch it. So he can argue I didn't have possession. Like, he could have argued I didn't have possession by just by knocking the ball instead of catching it.
- [12:31]
Allen
He knows what he's doing.
- [12:32]
Peter
Oh, no. He's a pretty smart guy. So. But I didn't know that either because when that happened, right away I was like, I looked at. I looked right at Mike Breen again, knows every rule in the league. And I turned to him. I didn't want to say it out loud because again, you don't want to be wrong, but in my head, I'm going, wait, that's a backcourt violation. That's. They called timeout. They advanced the ball. You cannot. You can't go in the back court, especially when you catch in the front court. They could have thrown it in the back court and it could have gone it. But you can't catch. Catch it at half court and dribble to the back court. You know, like Don, like in three on three overtime, when they. They come out of the zone and they go back and they pass back and all that stuff.
- [13:06]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [13:06]
Peter
Like you. You can't do that in the NBA. And I Looked at Mike and Jalen Rose, who was too. Like, he was right next to us. He got up and he's flipping out. And the funniest part is he turns to it. We're live on the air. He turns to us and he starts arguing. That's backward. I'm looking at. What do you want me to do.
- [13:26]
Allen
About it now, by the way, that.
- [13:28]
Peter
A rule is that the momentum is allowed to carry you into the backcourt. So that was a legal play. And. And that was a big play at the time. He gets fouled, he makes it two free throws.
- [13:36]
Allen
But all of these things, you know, the things that didn't happen, they all sort of add up to why is it so hard for this team to close out. It. It really did feel difficult, didn't it?
- [13:52]
Peter
They were up 7.
- [13:54]
Allen
And then it kept with a minute.
- [13:56]
Peter
With a minute to go and they six.
- [13:59]
Allen
And then it was. Well, it just. But they.
- [14:01]
Peter
But six seconds. That's what it was. That's. That. That's the one you were talking. It's. So it's up six with eight seconds to go. The game is over. They have that. That. That jump ball.
- [14:11]
Allen
Yes. And which leads directly to a three.
- [14:14]
Peter
Just taps it away and it goes right to Hardaway Jr. And he just throw. He just catch and shoots and drills it. Cuts the lead in half. That's the. That's the play there where you're like, whoa. Like, you know that. That you just. That's a jump ball situation. Somehow, some way you got to win that.
- [14:31]
Allen
It just all seems difficult, you know, And. And listen, you should be thrilled if you're the. The bottom line is now, Peter, you are. One more win in Detroit from coming home. Up three 1. It's a fantastic place to be in, but if I were to be a little bit Debbie Downer. Don, you feel like this team at the end of games doesn't handle things with championship metal. Like, the lead is six. You want to see it end that. They win by 12.
- [15:00]
Peter
Well, that was. Come on down the jump ball. Parts of fluke play. Absolute fluke play. It just went to him. It was. Bridges smacked at the ball, and it bounced off hands and went right to Tim Hardaway Jr. Who immediately just instinctively jumped and shot it totally.
- [15:15]
Allen
But even before that, it felt like they could have broken it open more and did.
- [15:19]
Alan Rosenberg
That's true.
- [15:20]
Peter
I gotta push back, man. They. The Pistons, at home in a raucous arena, made every single punch they could make. And the Knicks countered every single time. That game felt there was so many Times like, here come the Pistons, they're going to take lead. Here come the Pistons. Here come the Pistons. Make an effort. Play after effort Play. There were 50 something fouls called in this game. This game was a absolute brawl. And every single time the Pistons tried to throw a punch, the Knicks countered. And to the point where by the end of the game, the Pistons look like they were exasperated. Like they, they, like you know how you said Peter, it was too, the Knicks, it looked like it was too hard for them to close it out. On the other side they were saying, we just can't beat this team. Like another fourth quarter where they made the plays and we didn't.
- [16:13]
Alan Rosenberg
Right. But, but, but, but to Peter's point, why, it just seems like it's harder than it should be.
- [16:19]
Allen
Like you're, you're making today, not just yesterday.
- [16:22]
Alan Rosenberg
You're making great points. They counter punt. You're, you're the three seed. You're one of the best teams in. I didn't think it was going to be this difficult. Now they might end up winning in five. Maybe you broke their spirit last night, you know, and they don't play again until Sunday. Maybe they get like, you know, we can't beat this team.
- [16:38]
Peter
If you get Towns to play like that, like that was, that's as good as.
- [16:42]
Allen
You love to see him getting scrappy early. Yeah, he did all the things you want.
- [16:46]
Alan Rosenberg
But guys, we got to get out of this mentality of, you know, good effort. You know, they went, they won on the road. Like, dude, you're supposed to beat the Pistons. All right? And part of the first round for an elite team, if you are indeed an elite team, is that we were. It's fair for us to measure. Okay, how is this going to play later on in the playoffs? And so I'm looking at the, I'm looking at the Knicks going, I know they're better than the Pistons and I know they're going to beat the Pistons, but I want to see what it looks like because I want to scout them for how it's going to look against Boston in the second round. And honestly, in these three games, Allen, they're down 30 to Boston. Like this is not going to fly. If they were beating these team, if they were taking care of Detroit and they're up 3 0. You know, like what you're seeing happening with Oklahoma City. Yeah, they, they batted the bunny early in that game last night, but at the end they, they won the game. They're up 30 even without John Morant.
- [17:38]
Peter
Did Leave at halftime. True, their top scorer went. Was gone. And that, that 29 point lead was disappearing quickly because they had nobody to score.
- [17:46]
Alan Rosenberg
Right. But they also won the first two games by a combined 83 points or whatever it was. So I mean, even if they were to lose that game, they're still in great shape. Boston's a great shape against Orlando and, and the Knicks are in good shape because they're up to one. But I understand Peter's point. It shouldn't be this hard. So yes, let's give them credit. They won the game, they showed their medal in the fourth quarter. But it just feels like it's, it's a little too difficult for a team that you're trying to. I just zoom out and see if they can make a run.
- [18:14]
Peter
I get it. But look, you're not playing a play in team here. You're playing a team that had that. That was the fourth best defense in the NBA since January 1st. This is, this is not like some. I know the Pistons sucked last year. They lost 21 in row and all that stuff. But what they've become in a short period of time is something you got to recognize. Cleveland's play in Miami, that was a play in team. And in both those games, Miami was making them sweat until, you know, they were able to close it out late. But Miami, especially game two, Miami gave him a game in game two. So Cleveland, like, you know, they got the best record in the East. Why are they having to really, you know, go all the way to a fourth quarter now what Boston's doing to Orlando, that's batting the bunny. I'll see, we'll see what Game 3 looks like.
- [19:01]
Alan Rosenberg
Tatum's probably not playing.
- [19:02]
Peter
We'll see tonight. Yeah, yeah, but, but we'll see what. We'll see what Game 3 looks like in Orlando and all that stuff that they have a little bit of, you know, of the crowd and all that stuff. But, but Boston's making easy work of them. But you know, Cleveland's not exactly running over Miami. That those are. Those have been pretty entertaining games. But this Pistons team, I just don't want us to act like there's some pushover that you should be blowing out by 20 every night.
- [19:30]
Alan Rosenberg
No, but you did pick him in five.
- [19:32]
Peter
Yeah, and that's still. I'm still on track. Yeah, I'm still on track.
- [19:36]
Alan Rosenberg
It just. I can understand somebody going, this looks a little harder than maybe I thought. We've got Fraud Friday coming up in a bit, so I want to get some calls in at 1-800-919-3776. Joe in the car. You're on ESPN New York.
- [19:48]
Joe
Hey, what's up, guys? How you doing?
- [19:50]
Peter
Good.
- [19:51]
Joe
Everybody good. Good afternoon. I'm a first time caller, a long time listener. I'm just curious now listen as. So to your point, Don, you were saying that, that this is a team that you think the Knicks should just roll over. But at the same time, I feel like Bickerstaff is a great coach and I feel like, you know, he's just been really coaching them up really, really well. And I don't know, the Knicks, you know, although they distributed the ball well and they were, you know, they move it around and you know, you see them playing defense. But at the same time, like, I agree with you, at one point you said, you said that they're just not rolling over this team and it's like you get nervous at the end. But my real question is to you, Alan, and my question is, why were they granted that timeout at the end? I don't understand why.
- [20:34]
Peter
It wasn't a timeout. It was being reviewed. So while the review is going on, the players go back to their benches and essentially it becomes a timeout even though there isn't a timeout.
- [20:45]
Alan Rosenberg
So could you do something, could you do something in those situations where, hey, you don't have any time out, so we're not going to allow the players to get together so that you could set a play. Could you do something like that?
- [20:57]
Peter
I don't know. I don't know how you even enforce that.
- [21:00]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, just don't let them go back to the bench. They have the same reason.
- [21:02]
Peter
The referees are too busy conferring about the, about the clock and what they need to do. Who's going to be policing that? I know, but it's a lot going on there.
- [21:11]
Alan Rosenberg
I think somewhere you don't need every single official looking first. Somebody can keep an eye, making sure nobody goes right during the, during brawls. All the officials are trying to stop somebody still monitoring if somebody left the bench to go on the court to get suspended.
- [21:25]
Peter
Yeah, I guess, yeah, man, I don't know. It'd be interesting.
- [21:27]
Alan Rosenberg
It's a nitpick, but I just figured why allow them to get a free timeout?
- [21:31]
Peter
No, that's the thing that got the Knicks coaching staff all fired up because they just said they got a free timeout. They were able to actually draw up a play that could have beat us.
- [21:39]
Alan Rosenberg
Let's squeeze in John and Westchester, you're on espn.
- [21:41]
Allen
Here we go.
- [21:43]
John
Hey, what's up guys? When Vinny called, I just started thinking about the Billy Madison line. Whereas, you know, everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. That's all I could think about. But I thought you did a great job there. Don. Just one point before with the Knicks when Don, when you said that that like you think that maybe they could resign Shane, you know, just based off the, off the draft, I just feel like we can't just, we can't forget a couple years ago where you know, the resigning of Daniel Jones and letting go of Saquon Barkley. I just feel like we need to let it pan out. Like if he's a, if he's going to go into that last year without a contract, I don't think there's anybody that's going to come out of nowhere and say oh we got to give X amount of dollars to Joe Shane to get him over. So I would just hold off on that kind of let it see how it pans out.
- [22:33]
Alan Rosenberg
We're up or against the John. Otherwise let's make your nick point. But just real quick, they're going to have to make a decision at the end of the year what to do with this contract. Any, you know, so I don't know if anything's going to happen during the course of the year that's going to change your mind on the general manager but certainly can change your mind on the head coach. Fraud Friday, guys. And thanks to a listener and also to Anthony Pusick, we've added a little, we've added props to Fraud Friday.
- [23:01]
Peter
Oh yeah, gavel.
- [23:03]
Alan Rosenberg
The gavel is here. We've got, we got a road gavel and a home gavel.
- [23:06]
Peter
So, so, so Don, you will be the judge, jury and executioner of whether yes or no it is a fraud or not a fraud.
- [23:14]
Allen
Yeah, I have, I have some very interesting ones to present to you, Don. Very excited to see what your.
- [23:20]
Alan Rosenberg
So let's do it. Fraud Friday coming to the next But Peter's got lots to say.
- [23:23]
Allen
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- [24:20]
Marco
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- [24:52]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [24:55]
Allen
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [24:57]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. Did you or someone you know participate in fraudulent fan behavior?
- [25:11]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm a fraud with a capital F.
- [25:13]
Don Hahn
Is your friend a fraud?
- [25:15]
Allen
I have been a complete and utter fraud.
- [25:17]
Don Hahn
Are you a fraud?
- [25:19]
Alan Rosenberg
What is fraud?
- [25:20]
Don Hahn
Let's ask Don McGregor.
- [25:22]
Allen
Screw.
- [25:23]
Alan Rosenberg
Go scratch yourself.
- [25:26]
Allen
I'll say it right now. The it's the best intro we have. We have a lot of intros.
- [25:31]
Alan Rosenberg
Really good.
- [25:32]
Allen
So but like the moment Marco said what is fraud? I in my brain I thought when? How are we going to use that? And now, thanks to the brilliant work of our staff that the great team of Anthony Pusick, Mike Brownshirt and company, we have really come up with something special. Now it is time for Fraud Friday. You've been waiting for it all week and it's a doozy. You can send your emails to us dhrespnail.com youm can also call us throughout the rest of the show. We'll try to get you on to 1-800-919-3776 and fraud Friday is sponsored by you ready, Don? Yes you didn't know this, did you?
- [26:16]
Alan Rosenberg
No.
- [26:17]
Peter
Sponsored oh, yeah.
- [26:18]
Allen
That's how big we're doing it. It is sponsored by the Don Hahn and Rosenberg playoff pre game. It's happening this coming Tuesday before the Knicks game five. We are going to be at Stout in New York City doing the show live. Special guest, Knicks themed prizing. So come out to Stout, 133 33rd street right across the street from MSG. Hang out with Don Allen and myself to get you ready for the big game. But for right now, we will give Don the fraud options and he will rule. First we hear from Matt. Matt says, guys, you have like an appropriate reading of a letter music. Feel free if you find one.
- [27:06]
Peter
Yeah, what would that be?
- [27:07]
Alan Rosenberg
I wonder what that sounds like.
- [27:08]
Allen
I wonder where we go. Matt says I'm a lifelong Die Hard Yankees Knicks Rangers fan, but I never became a Giants or jets fans. Jets fan for two reasons. Football was less important to me growing up in the 90s when baseball and basketball dominated and my young brain failed to comprehend how the New York teams played their games in New Jersey. As a result, I'm NFL agnostic. I've come to love the sport and watch it religiously. But my rooting interest is only in the players on my fantasy team and bets that I make. Am I a fraud for never picking a football team to support Matt from upstate New York?
- [27:51]
Alan Rosenberg
I have a ruling.
- [27:52]
Peter
Oh, wow. Already? That was no deliberation whatsoever.
- [27:57]
Alan Rosenberg
No fraud.
- [27:58]
Allen
Yeah. No.
- [27:59]
Alan Rosenberg
He showed no allegiance. He didn't have a team. He fell in love with the sport, you know now, but never fell in love with a team. He's not faking it. He's not doing it just for the sake of it. He's rooting for his fantasy teams, which is perfectly fine. If he liked the team and then changed to another team, that's fraud behavior. But he is sticking to his guns and he's just following players. No fraud. Wow.
- [28:23]
Allen
All right, I'm with you now. I want to ask a follow up here, Don. What if Matt decided where I thought it was going to go and I'm guessing you did too. Was that he said, I'd like to now choose. I want to choose the jets or the Giants. Could he get in at this point?
- [28:37]
Alan Rosenberg
Sure. But then he's got to stick with it, right?
- [28:41]
Allen
Okay, fair.
- [28:42]
Alan Rosenberg
I wouldn't consider him a Die Hard by any stretch, but I wouldn't consider him a fraud.
- [28:46]
Peter
He's a free agent right now.
- [28:47]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [28:48]
Allen
All right, let's get.
- [28:48]
Alan Rosenberg
Let's get to. As opposed to a Fraud agent.
- [28:51]
Allen
Let's get to email number two here from Yousef.
- [28:53]
Alan Rosenberg
Yes.
- [28:56]
Allen
Good afternoon, fellas. I love the show. I myself am a proud Mets fan. My wife and her family are Yankee fans. My wife and I had our first child, a daughter, in September named Charlotte. Congrats.
- [29:08]
Peter
Nice.
- [29:08]
Allen
Beautiful. I was holding her in my arms when Pete extended our postseason. And for other beautiful moments, she's got clothes for both the Mets and Yankees. If I continue to only post pictures of her wearing the Mets, am I avoiding the fraud brand, or should I play fair and let my wife and her family have their Yankee love? Thanks, Yusuf from Rocklin.
- [29:35]
Alan Rosenberg
Hmm.
- [29:37]
Allen
This is less a deliberation on his fraudness unless you just see it that way, and more a question of what to do to avoid fraudness.
- [29:45]
Alan Rosenberg
Well. Well, there's no fraud without. I can sense, because it seems like he's the only one that's making these decisions. Is he getting any pushback from the rest of the family? Are they posting?
- [29:58]
Peter
Which sounds like.
- [29:59]
Alan Rosenberg
Seems like he's the only one that's really worried about this. So, listen, you're a Met fan. And. And if it ends up being more skewed Mets, then that's a bad job out of them for being asleep at the switch.
- [30:10]
Peter
So no fraud.
- [30:11]
Alan Rosenberg
No fraud.
- [30:14]
Allen
We hear now from Sean, who says, I'm 33 years old and from North Jersey. I grew up watching the Knicks with my uncle and became a Knicks fan. Latrell Sprewell is my favorite player and my personal hero.
- [30:30]
Alan Rosenberg
Okay, personal hero and PJ Lego. Word.
- [30:34]
Allen
I. I tried getting his autograph when I was nine years old. I reached up to hand him a basketball and he accidentally knocked it out of my hand. He turned, looked at me, and kept walking. No words, no signature. I cried. I became a Net fan that day and rooted for the Nets until the last year of the Marbury and Jason Kidd era, when the Nets moved to Brooklyn. I tried remaining a Nets fan, but I just lost my connection and emotional tie to the team. I couldn't bring myself to care about the Brooklyn Nets. I returned to my roots and became a Knicks fan once again.
- [31:24]
Peter
Oh, wow.
- [31:25]
Allen
Am I a fraud now? While you're thinking, wow, there's so much here. Mind you, once returning to the Knicks, I went through years of rooting for and believing in teams that started the likes of Dame Dotson, Lance Thomas, Michael Beasley, etc. You get what I'm saying? Am I a fraud?
- [31:45]
Alan Rosenberg
I have a question.
- [31:46]
Peter
All right.
- [31:47]
Alan Rosenberg
How old was he again during the latrell freewell incident?
- [31:51]
Allen
9 years old for the incident. Yeah. Do me a favor, Don. Is that. Are you hitting that on the table?
- [32:02]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [32:02]
Allen
Will you try picking it up and giving it a knock, like near the microphone, but like holding it up?
- [32:07]
Peter
Oh, yeah, much better.
- [32:09]
Allen
You hear that, Alan?
- [32:09]
Peter
Yeah.
- [32:10]
Allen
Alan. They don't give these jobs.
- [32:11]
Alan Rosenberg
I tested this off the air and I was told it sounded great.
- [32:14]
Peter
Way better when you hold it up.
- [32:16]
Allen
Yeah, it's nice.
- [32:16]
Alan Rosenberg
That's what they. She said. Well, first of all, I just wanted to see how old he was if he stayed with the Nets. I was going to say, no, fraud. You're nine years old, still very young. That's a traumatic incident that had taken place. You decide to pivot to the Nets. You're from Jersey. They play in Jersey. You stay a Nets fan. Yeah. Going to Brooklyn's awkward, but, hey, you committed at a very young age to the Nets. Going back to the Knicks is complete fraud behavior. Fraud can't go back to the Knicks. And what's the difference? What's the difference between Brooklyn and Manhattan? You live in Jersey anyway.
- [32:57]
Allen
Wow. I love it. I'm just happy we got to hear the siren.
- [33:01]
Alan Rosenberg
Strong.
- [33:01]
Peter
That's very strong. What if he comes to our. Our little soiree on Tuesday and I get. If I can find a way to get spree to give him that autograph?
- [33:13]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, still makes him a fraud.
- [33:14]
Peter
But he'd be a fraud. Doesn't that, doesn't that kind of fix.
- [33:16]
Allen
Like make him a fraud with an autograph?
- [33:19]
Peter
He would have never. He would have never left if he had gotten that. But he did leave.
- [33:25]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm not calling him a fraud for leaving. Alan. He was nine years old. It was a traumatic incident. I've set the line at 8. I gotta have some legal room.
- [33:33]
Peter
Left him. They left him. Left him behind.
- [33:37]
Alan Rosenberg
But the Knicks were never there. He's from North Jersey. What's the difference?
- [33:40]
Peter
You've got.
- [33:40]
Alan Rosenberg
It's on television.
- [33:41]
Allen
It's on radio.
- [33:43]
Peter
The Knicks own North Jersey. It's, it's. It's almost like Nassau County.
- [33:46]
Alan Rosenberg
It's owns fraud.
- [33:48]
Allen
Allen, what do you got?
- [33:51]
Peter
Well, you might remember from last night, we had this incident. The Knicks took a lead like we were talking about late in the game, and Mike Breen and I took notice of something that happened in Little Caesars arena, which is hosting a playoff game for the first time in six years. Listen, dream of that. Why is everybody leaving, though?
- [34:09]
Don Hahn
They're still.
- [34:10]
Peter
So many of the fans are still leaving. It's a three point game with 5.8 remaining and the Pistons still have a.
- [34:17]
Alan Rosenberg
Timeout, so if they get a turnover.
- [34:19]
Peter
They can quickly call time. This is your first home playoff game you haven't had in years. The traffic can't possibly be that bad.
- [34:29]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, this, this simply comes down right now to ex.
- [34:33]
Peter
So I, I, I, I want Don Pistons fans emptying the lower bowl of a building of your first playoff game. It's a three point game. It's your first playoff game in that building. Number one. It's the first one they've been in in six years. They haven't won one. Think about this. They haven't won a home playoff game since 2008 and you're walking out.
- [35:02]
Allen
I had this. It was a 7pm Tip.
- [35:05]
Peter
Well, is that too. But that was a three hour game. So we're still.
- [35:08]
Allen
I get it. But still I didn't tip at 8:30.
- [35:10]
Peter
I understand. So Don, that's fraudulent behavior by what was once a proud fan base and a very at the time during the game. Again, I'm courtside, very loud, very raucous, very into it crowd. You give up that quick, that easy. They were chanting Fu Brunson throughout the whole game, every time went to the free throw line and it's the three point game and you're like, you know what? It's past my bedtime. I gotta go. That's fraudulent behavior in my opinion. Do you agree or disagree?
- [35:46]
Alan Rosenberg
Of course it's fraudulent behavior.
- [35:48]
Allen
Where you going?
- [35:50]
Alan Rosenberg
You think you really honestly believe that Detroit's any less dangerous at 9:50 as opposed to 10:10? All right. I don't know why even go. Like I don't understand these people that leave before the encore to concert. You know, they, they leave just as the credits roll in the movie. And you made the commitment to go just hang there might be something at the end of the credits. Yeah, three point plays happen in sports, in the NBA. What are you talking about walking out? Why did you go if you're that much rush to leave? You know what then don't just never leave your house. You can't be that disgusted with the team. You're underdogs team put up a great effort. You're still mathematically alive to not only win the game but still win the series. And you're walking out. Did you even want to be there in the first place? Complete fraud behavior.
- [36:38]
Peter
It was sad. That's the first thing I could not. But I was looking around the arena and I was watching all you saw with the backs of people in the aisles walking up the steps, up from the Lower bowl and heading out and it. Where are they going, Mike? Where are they going? Yeah, that's. That's fraud behavior by that fan base, which, like I said, great atmosphere. They were loud, passionate, that that was once a proud franchise with a proud fan base. And that's your first impression on the NBA in your first home playoff game. That's what you're doing. Running for the exits. Embarrassing.
- [37:17]
Allen
You know, I've never done this before, but the intro is so good. I'd like to close out and make it our outro as well. That was what we call fraud Friday here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg.
- [37:29]
Peter
That was really good.
- [37:30]
Don Hahn
Did you or someone you know participate in fraudulent fan behavior?
- [37:36]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm a fraud with a capital F.
- [37:37]
Don Hahn
Is your friend a fraud?
- [37:39]
Allen
I have been a complete and utter fraud.
- [37:42]
Don Hahn
Are you a fraud?
- [37:43]
Alan Rosenberg
What is fraud?
- [37:44]
Don Hahn
Let's ask Tom McGregor.
- [37:47]
Allen
Screw.
- [37:47]
Alan Rosenberg
Go scratch yourself.
- [37:49]
Allen
Oh, boy. We could take phone calls also for the rest of the day. 1-800-919-3776. Gosh, that's a great segment.
- [37:58]
Peter
It was so much fun. Hey, but I want to tell everybody that it is Alan Hahn here, and I'm here to tell you about my friends at Bath Fitter. They just remodeled a bath in my home. My wife Stephanie is so excited. Guess what she went from. Well, the shower looks so good. Let's do the rest of the bathroom now. Isn't that awesome? Guess what? My weekend's gonna be all about everybody. That's right. Well, we updated the bath by our pool, converted what was an old tub into a shower so, you know, you can use it for the summer. Guests come in the have sleepovers and all that stuff. A Bath Fitter consultant took us through the process with their free in home consultation. And Stephanie got to pick out the style, the color, and all the specifics and accessories to update our bath customized just the way she wanted it. Bath Fitter worked fast. Kevin came in, done in two days, got it all done. It was great. Nice and clean. You don't even know he's here. Except, of course, when you walk in, you see this beautiful shower that is now in the place of what was once an ugly bath. But they deliver the highest quality work without delay. And by the way, everybody, Beth Fitter is a permanent solution. A one piece seamless wall for a watertight fit and a lifetime guarantee. You can trust the Bath Fitter team like we did, and they have been in business for 40 years with millions of happy customers. And right now, this is what we're going to hook you Up. You can save up to $500 and start designing your bath like we did. Visit bathfitter.com for more details. There is only one bath fitter.
- [39:26]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [39:30]
Allen
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [39:31]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:39]
Allen
I have to say this. Thirty years ago today, Mob Deep dropped the seminal, infamous album. I cannot believe that is 30 years ago.
- [39:53]
Peter
Yeah, we keep doing this with the 90s. We keep.
- [39:55]
Allen
We keep saying we can't believe it's.
- [39:57]
Peter
Been 30 years ago, but it has been. It's crazy.
- [40:00]
Allen
It's. It's very hard to accept. The 90s or 30 years ago. I'm not there yet.
- [40:04]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah, 1995. Like, 1995 just doesn't feel like it was that long ago.
- [40:11]
Peter
But there are people that we work with that weren't alive. Think about that now. We were both alive. I mean, you were barely not fully conscious. Maybe you were wearing diapers.
- [40:22]
Alan Rosenberg
I could barely keep my head up.
- [40:24]
Peter
See?
- [40:25]
Allen
Yeah. You guys missed out, man.
- [40:27]
Peter
Oh, great era.
- [40:29]
Allen
What time?
- [40:29]
Alan Rosenberg
I had to make up for the 80s, which was really, in retrospect, was a huge mistake.
- [40:34]
Peter
What? Are you crazy? Yeah, the seventies were a disaster. The eighties was the comeback. Come on now.
- [40:43]
Alan Rosenberg
From a fat. No, no, no, no.
- [40:46]
Peter
The 80s were way better than the 70s. You got. You. Come on. No, let's not get crazy.
- [40:50]
Alan Rosenberg
No, because, listen, I'm nostalgic as the next guy, but the music wasn't very.
- [40:55]
Peter
Good in the 80s. Yeah, especially ridiculously, the late 80s was awful. My. My high school years, I gotta admit, whenever they do this whole, like, remember the music from your high school? No, I hated all of it was terrible.
- [41:09]
Allen
But that's what. But, Alan, the beauty is you were discovering hip hop in the late 80s.
- [41:13]
Peter
You're right. That's what changed everything. R and B and hip hop got me away from save the 80s. Yeah, it did, if you ask me.
- [41:20]
Alan Rosenberg
But. Yeah, I don't know. I guess it really depends on how old you are. Yeah, there's a lot of bad that came out of every decade. You know, the. Some of the 70s music that. As much as I like it, some of it's really like.
- [41:32]
Peter
It's funny how Top of the world.
- [41:34]
Alan Rosenberg
Right down on green.
- [41:36]
Peter
Yeah, that's. That's when we. That Burt Bacharach was writing too many songs and they were just creating these bands for no reason.
- [41:42]
Alan Rosenberg
Too many. But whatever. 95 should not be 30 years ago. But it certainly is. And then 96 is gonna hit because a lot of, a lot of great movies, a lot of great things happened in 96. That's gonna be crazy that, that we're 29 years and it's gonna be 30 next year for that.
- [41:57]
Peter
But can I just shout out one thing about the jets draft left?
- [42:00]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah, sure.
- [42:01]
Peter
Armand Membu, by the way, he's. He's your right tackle. Okay.
- [42:04]
Alan Rosenberg
Right.
- [42:05]
Peter
You already know that. Olus Pashano is your left tackle. He's 22. Okay. Members, 21.
- [42:12]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [42:12]
Peter
Vera Tucker is, Is already an all Pro guard. He's 25. Joe Tippman's your center. He's 24. You see what they're building here?
- [42:20]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [42:20]
Peter
I mean, John Simpson's your vet. He's the only other guy. He's the other guard, but he's like the vet. But I. Look, it's not sexy when you draft linemen. I get it. But when you are going to roll the dice on a Justin Fields and see if. Can we be the team that unlocks him and figures it out, can he have a Sam Darnold year or a Geno Smith year with us? What have we learned about Fields in his past, especially in Chicago? He was running for his life all the time because they had no protection around him. The jets are going to do whatever it takes to make sure that that's not an excuse.
- [42:54]
Alan Rosenberg
And, and I saw Washoes and tweet this earlier today that the average age right now of their offensive line is 27 years old. So that's.
- [43:01]
Peter
He did it too. Okay.
- [43:02]
Alan Rosenberg
You know, but it's a great point that you both great minds think alike. They got younger. But here's. There's two problems with drafting offensive lineman in the first round. And that is it's not sexy. And the hit rate might be worse than quarterbacks. I mean, the Giants, how many first round picks have they had to be bused? Whether it's Flowers, Evans. It seems like every weekend we need to build the offensive line, draft this guy highly.
- [43:31]
Peter
Thomas was a hit.
- [43:32]
Alan Rosenberg
No, Thomas was a hit. No, like I said, it's not, it's not hit list. But you know, you go back to, to Maravich back and like there was so many guys that like, oh, can't miss. This guy's gonna be, you know, the next. They always throw out Munoz, so this guy's gonna be the next one. And then, so that's the thing. It's. It's unsexy. And, and it could end up being a bust. And so that's the thing that hurts. It's not sexy like a wide receiver. All of them probably can be busts. But to be not sexy and possibly a bust. That's why it's not moving the needle. The Giants move a needle because they get an edge pass rusher which is dead sexy. And then they trade it back into the first round trades. Oh my God. When people see a trade alert, it's like it's ridiculous how people freak out about that did make the draft interesting last night because all of a sudden, you know, it's. It's not Cleveland making that pick. It's like, oh, what's Jacksonville going to do?
- [44:28]
Allen
Is.
- [44:28]
Alan Rosenberg
Are they going to. Are they going to take Carter? But you know, you got a feeling was probably going to be Hunter.
- [44:33]
Peter
How do you feel about Justin Pugh? He was a first round pick back in 2013.
- [44:36]
Alan Rosenberg
It's tough like because he stayed in the league a long time.
- [44:39]
Peter
Good dude too.
- [44:40]
Alan Rosenberg
Very good guy. But you know, when you look back.
- [44:44]
Peter
But that wasn't. Yeah. As a first round pick. You want that to be a pro Bowler. Right. And all. All pro, I should say. Right. So as you go back. So Andrew Thomas is one, but that's three now that you took because Evan Neil's won. Flowers won pew. That didn't turn into as a first round pick. You know, a legendary, you know, been here for 10 years kind of offensive alignment.
- [45:04]
Alan Rosenberg
I remember I real quick because I know we got a break, but I was in the car. I think I was coming back from a Ranger game listening to you and Rick analyzing the flowers pick. Do you remember doing that? You were on the air during the draft breaking down the flower selection. Do you have any recollection?
- [45:23]
Peter
I have zero recollection. But the fact that we were on the air during the draft says so much about how far we've come as a station.
- [45:34]
Alan Rosenberg
I think it was some kind of experiment that we did was like, we'll take the draft, but we'll break in.
- [45:40]
Peter
We broke it. That's right. We did. The Giants were on the, on the like we ran the coverage of the Giants pick and then we came back to our show. We like we ducked in and out. That's right. We did that that night. Yeah, I do remember that. I don't remember what we said. You have to go back to 99. Luke Pettigrew was another tackle taken in the first listen.
- [46:01]
Alan Rosenberg
Not, you know, so I can understand the Jeff fan going.
- [46:05]
Peter
Cringing for the Giant. I'm saying from the Giants perspective. But for the jets, you know, that's how they got themselves to back to back conference championship games. They drafted, they got, right, they got Brick and they got what Bart calls him, Fat Thor. I keep forgetting his name.
- [46:24]
Alan Rosenberg
You go back to Mangold and yeah.
- [46:26]
Peter
Mango's what I'm talking about.
- [46:27]
Alan Rosenberg
No, listen, and the Giants too, when they, everybody talks about the NASCAR package and, and putting pressure on the quarterback, that offensive line, listen, every team that wins a championship usually does it with.
- [46:36]
Peter
A great offensive line.
- [46:38]
Alan Rosenberg
Big five o'clock hour bigger than usual because it's our last hour because we're taking in the Mets coverage coming at 6:00. So we got Knicks, we got Draft 1-800-919-3776, Don Han and Rosenberg on 880, ESPN and the ESPN New York app.
- [46:54]
Allen
You know, I have a message though first, if you guys don't mind, brought to you by my dearest of friends at BetterHelp. Alright? Therapy is a big investment, but a really worthwhile one because the state of your mind and your mental health is just as important as the state of your physical health. Now, traditional in person therapy can be expensive. You know, anywhere from like 100 bucks to. By the way, good luck finding 100 bucks. More like 250, 300 bucks per session. And that adds up quick. But with better help. Online therapy you can save on average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, alright? It'll save you really, really big. Alright? So you can still get that help you need, but for a better cost. Quality care at a price that makes sense. All right. Stress is so, so tough as we get older. Family, work. Man, I didn't know adulting would be this hard. But it is very hard. And your mental health is worth it. And now it's within reach. Trust me. I've been benefiting from therapy for a long time. Especially now with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.competer today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.competer thanks for listening to the.
- [48:19]
Don Hahn
Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [48:21]
Peter
I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good.
- [48:24]
Alan Rosenberg
Peter.
- [48:24]
Don Hahn
Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.