Hour 2: Less For More

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – "Less For More" (Hour 2)

Date: October 13, 2025
Podcast: ESPN New York
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Don La Greca

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Overview

This episode revolves around the ongoing struggles and decision-making surrounding the New York Jets' coaching situation, the franchise's cyclical search for stability, and the broader difficulties NFL teams face in finding the right head coach. The hosts debate the value of patience versus the urge for rapid change, discuss the merits of retread (experienced) versus first-time coaches, and look at franchises across the league grappling with similar dilemmas. The episode then transitions to wider NFL topics: player leadership, the unpredictability this season, memorable games, and weekly NFL highlights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Jets' Coaching Carousel: Patience, Panic, and the Case for Experience

• Cultural Context

  • The Jets are infamous for quickly cycling through coaches (Judge, Shermer, McAdoo—all out after two years each).
  • Ownership’s historical aversion to hiring established, successful coaches is scrutinized.

• Patience vs. Impatience

  • Don: "Six games is not enough to judge whether he's the guy or not...you've got to at least ride this out to see where it goes. That's how you find coaches." (03:11)
  • Alan: Reminisces that coaches once got more time to figure things out and asks why Jets ownership won't pursue experienced, proven leaders—implying some fear of ceding control or “oxygen” to a dominant coach. (08:38)
  • Consensus: It's hard to win consistently in the NFL, and even acclaimed coaches often struggle without the right roster or time to build.

• The Retread Dilemma

  • "Retread" is addressed as an unfair pejorative. The hosts cite how experienced coaches can bring needed order and stability to perennial losing franchises.
  • Alan: "There's nothing wrong with it if the guy gets you organized and gets you right. When you're a bad franchise, that's what you need. Not a guy who's over his head..." (09:08)
  • Noted examples: Mike Keenan, Pat Riley, Tom Thibodeau, Mike Brown (in New York); outside: Mike Vrabel, Pete Carroll.

• Why don't Owners go after Star Coaches?

  • Don: “I might not want to chase the hot girl. I don't want to be told no. So I'm going to go after the inexperienced coaches because they have...more apt to say yes.” (10:00)
  • Discussion that Woody Johnson (Jets owner) prefers less established hires to avoid being rejected by top coaches.

Fan Perspective & The Jets' Attractiveness

• Caller Jimmy from LA (14:00): Long-time fan voice laments that the franchise isn’t an enticing landing spot for top coaches because of ownership’s reputation and the general dysfunction.
  • Jimmy: “My theory is...I don't think the jets are an attractive place given the owner, given the franchi a destination for an experienced head coach.”
  • Consensus among hosts that big names like Mike Vrabel, Ben Johnson, Jim Harbaugh, and Pete Carroll wouldn't actually choose the Jets at this stage.
  • Alan jokes only Rex Ryan would take the job now.

The Art of In-Game Management

• Coaching Mistakes
  • Inexperience leads to errors in clock management, timeouts, and critical play calls.
  • Don: “There is an art to two minute drives and making decisions on timeouts and whether to go for two...an inexperienced coach would probably screw that up. Right. So Rex, having coached in this league...I think experience alone...wins them that game yesterday.” (16:03)
  • Discussion of coaching growing pains: young coaches need reps and patience like players do.

The Justin Fields & Garrett Wilson Saga

• Discussion on whether to stick with QB Justin Fields

  • Rosenberg calls the relationship a "Vegas wedding"—fun, impulsive, likely not to last, but worth the shot.
    • “It was a. Hey, we're having fun. This could work out. Why not give it a shot?...If it doesn't work, guess what? We'll sober up and get divorced.” (18:46)
  • Alan notes lack of apparent trust in Fields from coaching staff, especially in critical moments.
    • “The plan showed you the lack of trust in what he had on the field. He did not trust Justin Fields in that moment.” (20:51)

• Player Frustration

  • Garrett Wilson audio clip: expresses confusion and frustration with end-of-half playcalling. (20:30)
  • Don & Alan analyze whether Fields' presence is to appease Wilson or if coaching decisions are being undermined by organizational politicking.

NFL Parity & Team Identity

• Who are these teams, really?

  • The hosts declare this year’s NFL particularly unpredictable—with supposed bottom-feeders beating favorites often.
  • Peter: “Just when you think you're starting to figure out who these teams are, guys, the Panthers looked like the absolute worst team in the league. The Cowboys looked like...going the right direction and they end up getting outscored by the Panthers yesterday. Weird league, guys." (28:02)
  • The NFC is “wide open," with teams like Detroit, Washington, and Tampa Bay in conversation alongside fading favorites (Eagles, Cowboys, Packers).

• Player Leadership Issues

  • Segment on Tua Tagovailoa's comments about team discipline in Miami (24:31): Tua criticizes teammates for missing or being late to player-only meetings, possibly signaling deeper locker room dysfunction.
    • Tua: “We have guys showing up to player only meetings late. Guys not showing up...Like there's a lot that goes into that...” (25:04)
  • Dialogue continues about where ultimate leadership must come from—a franchise QB, and whether Tua is effectively taking that role, or signaling problems larger than coaching.

Around the NFL: Highlights and Anecdotes

• Baker Mayfield's MVP-caliber season

  • Fun anecdote: Tez Johnson mishearing MVP chants after his score, only to realize they were for Baker.
    • “When I score and I hear MVP chant, I'm thinking, they talking about me...I was like, I ain't do nothing this year. And then he was like, they talking about Baker test.” (32:00)
  • Speculation that Mayfield's resurgence might not have happened in larger, more contentious markets like New York or Dallas.

• Backup Quarterback Value

  • Don, Alan, and Peter wax about backup QBs like Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Aaron Rodgers, underlining that teams must have capable backups or risk catastrophe.
    • Rosenberg: “If you don't have a backup that's like, reasonably good. It's professional malfeasance, as Michael K. Might say.” (44:00)

• NFL Binge Segment

  • Recap of compelling games (Lions-Chiefs SNF, Cowboys' collapse vs Panthers, etc.)
  • Colorful acknowledgment of team inconsistency: “Week six already, guys. Week six.” (37:40)

Who Makes the Super Bowl?

• Roundtable—who represents each conference?
  • Alan: “I'm putting Buffalo in. I'm. I'm buying Buffalo.” (46:25)
  • Don: “Right now, I would say because it's wide open, that we'll get that matchup that we almost got two years ago. I'm going to go Buffalo, Detroit.” (46:56)
  • Peter: Agrees with Buffalo-Detroit; caveats that Kansas City can always “piece it together” and make AFC Championship weekend, while Washington is a dark horse but needs to show more. (48:31)
  • Hosts agree Bills vs. Lions would be a beloved neutral-fan matchup due to both teams' tortured histories. (49:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the need for coaching patience:

  • Don: “You don't find these guys and they win right away...but even the coaches, we think are great, can't rub two super bowl championships together.” (03:37)

• On retread coaches:

  • Alan: “There's nothing wrong with it if the guy gets you organized and gets you right when you're a bad franchise, that's what you need.” (09:08)

• On Jets ownership’s avoidance of star coaches:

  • Don: "Do I want the embarrassment of going after a big name coach and being told no? I'm not one coach there." (10:15)

• Jimmy in LA (fan call):

  • “My theory is...I don't think the jets are an attractive place given the owner...No way...Mike Vrabel was not coming to the New York Jets.” (14:00)

• On QB/WR dynamics:

  • Peter (on the Fields/Wilson partnership): “It was a Vegas wedding...If it doesn't work, guess what? We'll sober up and get divorced.” (18:46)

• On NFL’s unpredictability:

  • Peter: “The Panthers looked like the absolute worst team in the league. The Cowboys looked like they were going...right direction and they end up getting outscored by the Panthers...” (28:02)

• On player leadership (Tua saga):

  • Tua Tagovailoa: “We have guys showing up to player only meetings late. Guys not showing up...” (25:04)
  • Alan: “He's not talking about coaching. He's talking about player leadership. He's talking about the locker room. They got problems with that roster.” (25:43)

• On backup QBs:

  • Peter: “If you don't have a backup that's...reasonably good. It's professional malfeasance...” (44:36)

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Notable Timestamps

• Jets coaching patience debate: 01:43 – 07:47
• Why avoid experienced coaches? 07:47 – 10:16
• Fan caller ‘Jimmy’ on the Jets: 14:00 – 16:03
• The art of in-game management and coordinator struggles: 16:03 – 17:23
• Justin Fields/Garrett Wilson dynamic: 18:34 – 22:07
• Player leadership, Dolphins drama (Tua): 24:31 – 27:39
• Cowboys lose to Panthers, NFL unpredictability: 28:02 – 30:32
• Baker Mayfield MVP talk & Tez Johnson moment: 31:30 – 33:40
• Backup QB value, Flacco & Rodgers: 43:07 – 45:05
• Super Bowl picks: 46:11 – 49:10

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Tone & Banter

• Camaraderie: The hosts tease each other about their fan loyalties, decision-making, and travel stories. The tone is passionate and sometimes self-deprecating, reflective of their decades-long fandom and experience.
• Real Talk: No pretense—honestly appraising their own teams, calling out owner mistakes, and poking fun at their own rooting pain.
• Humor: Regular jokes (Vegas weddings for Fields/Wilson, Mayfield’s cereal, NFL’s “weirdness”) and friendly ribbing keep things light despite the frustrations aired.

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In sum:
This episode delivers a candid, knowledgeable, and wide-ranging take on why coaching changes are so hard—especially for cursed franchises like the Jets. The hosts blend expertise, humor, and hard truths about football, giving listeners both a therapy session and an insider’s look at the league’s challenges in coaching, leadership, and team-building.

Transcript

[Alan Hahn]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me. Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80.

[Alan Hahn]

ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

4:00 clock in the big city. Don on Rosenberg guiding you till 7 o'. Clock. Got the American League Championship Series happening on 1050. We've got the NA National League Championship Series beginning right here at 7:30 on 880.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Plenty.

[Don Hahn]

Hockey, basketball. Allen's over at the Garden. I'm here in Columbus. Peter's getting ready for the NFL binge. And to just correct any confusion, Peter, I was talking about your team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I figured I heard some kind of.

[Don Hahn]

Snarky comment about big Bears guy. No, I'm not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I made a joke. I made a joke about that to the guys here, but I assumed you meant the Commanders. But listen, today's one of those days, right? Like we're figuring out who these teams are. And a few weeks ago when the Commanders played the Packers, I thought the packers were winning the super bowl. And it turned out the Commanders stink. And now you fast forward a few weeks later and you're like, oh, the packers seem pretty good. And after watching what the Commanders did against the Chargers last week, you go, oh, wait, they may be the same as last year, so tonight is a big game in that regard.

[Don Hahn]

But to mention what Alan was saying about, you know, finding the, the coach, I believe they're sticking. He's not going to eat four years after this. Of a kind. I don't know why it's never been reported how much he's making, but I, it's, it's probably pretty significant, right? And that's a lot, even for Woody Johnson. That's a lot of money to, you know, pay out the rest of this contract and then pay whoever you're going to bring it. Now, Alan, you brought up who wants to be here. All right, well, Aaron Glenn wanted to be here. And don't make it seem like Aaron Glenn didn't have suitors. He did. You know, he did well in Detroit. I'm not saying he was highly coveted, but he wanted to come here. He's a former Jet, came from a program that won. Listen, I wanted Dable and Shane gone before the season started because I felt like we gave him enough rope. But. And I. And I hated the whole. We got to keep these guys because. Because, because. How many times you went through different coaches? Judge only two years. And Shermer only two years. And McAdoo only two years. You got to do it until you find the right guy. But at the same time, six games is not enough to judge whether he's the guy or not. Now, I am not going to apologize for how he's coached. He has not coached well. He has not given you a lot of confidence, but you've got to at least ride this out to see where it goes. That's how you find coaches. Usually you don't find these guys and they win right away. All right, it worked for McVay in LA, but now.

[Alan Hahn]

But.

[Don Hahn]

But there's been times now we wonder, is he really that good of a coach? Right. I mean, he hasn't won since some of his teams in LA have underachieved. Shanahan the same thing. Boy, he can really make a quarterback work. But it's been a while now since San Francisco has been able to put it together. They're kind of an embarrassment right now.

[Alan Hahn]

We know. We know they can coach.

[Don Hahn]

We know they can coach Allen.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's only as good as the talent you have. Shanahan's got that bugaboo right now, I understand, to get over the hump and win.

[Don Hahn]

But my point is, the guy, even the coaches, we think are great, can't rub two super bowl championships together, right? Those seem to be the two gold standards. Young guys, boy, they can win well, you know, and they've. They've done well. But even that's had its pitfalls. Yeah, but you need talent, of course.

[Alan Hahn]

How long did it take Andy Reid.

[Don Hahn]

But look. Look at Andy Reid. A long time, right? But.

[Alan Hahn]

But also, like. Like, here's another great example in, in Houston, they got the quarterback in C.J. stroud, D'. Amico. Ryan's blood in the ground was in the beginning considered to be like, wow, what a great job he's doing. Everybody thought he was the next guy, right? And he. He goes there and they have some success, and, you know, you feel like they're on their way. But since then, the Texans have sort of kind of stumbled around now, right?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

So I. It's.

[Don Hahn]

It's hard.

[Alan Hahn]

Look, it's hard. That's it. Nobody wants to hear it, but it's really hard to win in the NFL. And it's down to that degree. McDermott, everybody love him in Buffalo.

[Don Hahn]

What do we have to go on? Like quarterbacks? You go on what they did in college, you find out what they did on the Wonderlic test, you find out what they did at the combine. And even then, it's. It's an inexact science. Right. You grab these. Unless you get an established coach, you're bringing a coordinator from someplace else that's never been a head coach before, and you hope that it comes together. Hey, Bill Parcell's hand picked Ray Hanley. How did that work out?

[Alan Hahn]

Not good.

[Don Hahn]

You're hoping that he got this one right with parcels.

[Alan Hahn]

But what's your.

[Don Hahn]

Bill's been in Glenn's ear. You got to give it more than six games.

[Alan Hahn]

What's your other option? No, no, I'm saying, like, I agree, you got to give coaches more time, especially in franchises that constantly turn it over because eventually they like. I just remember in the old days, I don't remember coaches getting fired that quickly. Right. It just felt like coach was there for a couple of years and then he kind of figures it out. But the great. Like this is a million great examples. The other way to go about it, if you don't go with the coordinator who's never been a head coach, but looks like he's like the next guy you know, again, look in. Look in Minnesota koc. He knows how to coach, man, he's good. But. But. Or you go retread, which sounds like such a terrible word, doesn't it? It sounds the retread. Well, how's the reach out working out for you, Peter?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Great. That. Well, that's the thing that goes back.

[Alan Hahn]

Working out in New England.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But doesn't that go back to what you were just talking about, the quarterback?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, because you mentioned McDermott earlier, McDermott's not a good head coach. They got a really good. They have incredible quarter they've had. They've made a lot of mistakes, but they have an incredible quarterback and they've had generally good talent. And look what they. And they're all right. We don't know if Sirianni is a great coach.

[Alan Hahn]

Mike Vrabel left Tennessee like there was. Oh, he lost the team. He's not a good coach. All the things that fell apart for Vrabel made him look bad. But he goes to New England and he gets it turned around because A, they do have a quarterback, but B, he knows how to organize. A, he's done it Already I know how to get this thing organized. I can get us back on track. And he did it. It's immediate impact. You know, Harbaugh was out of the NFL, but he goes to LA and he takes over that franchise, which they had again, a young guy who was doing crazy stuff, but they've got talent there. He comes in and gets them organized, gets them competitive again. So the retread that everybody seems to hate now, I know Pete Carroll is not exactly tearing it up in Vegas, but as you saw yesterday, when you play against an incompetent team, you win easy because you have a coach that knows how to get you organized and get you ready for a game week after week. Jets never want to do that.

[Don Hahn]

Let's not have the audacity to start talking about what coach can get the jets to a Super bowl. And let's just talk about a coach that can get the jets functioning and winning and finishing above.500 and all that. You know, that that's the. That's the point is that we're just trying to see if we can get a coach that knows what he's doing. And it's hard. You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna be embarrassed. Is the microscope in New York. And again, maybe Aaron Glenn's gonna be awful and get fired soon, but you gotta. It's gonna take some time. It's just going to. You have no choice but be patient and wait.

[Alan Hahn]

Woody doesn't want to hire an experienced coach. And I don't know why. I don't know why. He never wants to bring in a guy who has run a team before 25 years. Think about it. 25 years. Nobody that has done it before.

[Don Hahn]

No, only on an interim, right? The Bulls interim did Miami. So did Gates.

[Alan Hahn]

That doesn't count. No, interims don't count.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, both organizations. Shermer had some experience in Cleveland, but it seems like these. I don't know what it is. I don't know whether it's because it's cheap or whether they. The owners want to have some sort of control. Because when you come in with a bunch of rings. Listen, Andy reruns that team, right? Like so. Because he came in with four straight championship games in Philadelphia and went to a Super Bowl. I guess, you know, Woody doesn't want somebody that's gonna, you know, suck up all the oxygen, I guess, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Suck up all the oxygen you want if we win. But why do you care? If you told me I'm not allowed in the building, if you locked me out of my own building. But you're winning 10 games. 15, 12, whatever it is a year. Fine, I'll stay out of the building.

[Don Hahn]

We might have had this conversation. Isn't that kind of how it works in New York? Like the Rangers, one cup came with Mike Keenan, who had won in Philadelphia and won in Chicago or at least went to a Stanley cup final there and then one here. Right. When was the greatest success the Knicks had? Pat Riley.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but also think about this. Tom Thibodeau, retread. The dirty word. Right? Mike Brown, retread. Let's see what happens this year with him. But like, like, like there's nothing wrong with it if the guy gets you organizing, gets you right when you're a bad franchise, that's what you need. Not a guy who's over his head, who's never done it before, who walks in going, I can handle it, and then realizes, oh, my God, this is overwhelming. Yeah, because you don't know what you don't know until you know. You cannot just have somebody with zero experience walk into places like this, either New York or a place that is so bad and has been losing for so many years that it's going to take a lot to turn it around. And the first thing you need to do is before we even talk about, let's just get organized. Let's just become competent but experienced coaches do that.

[Don Hahn]

But with Woody, I might, you know, I don't, I don't want to chase the hot girl. I don't want to be told no. Right. So I'm going to go after the inexperienced coaches because they have. They're more apt to say yes. Do I want the embarrassment of going after a big name coach and being told no? I'm not one coach there.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, I see.

[Don Hahn]

You know, I don't know. But guys, I'm willing to have the conversation if you are. I would be absolutely floored if Glenn doesn't at least last two years here. I'm at least two years.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm with you, but let me throw.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But what if it, what if it ends up being. What if we get to like, I know this sounds crazy, but what if we get to 0 and 12, oh, and 13? At what point do you go, you know what? All right, if we're really staring a no win season in the face, Peter.

[Alan Hahn]

That changes in Detroit. They were 0, 10 and 1.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, I know.

[Alan Hahn]

They were. Detroit, horrifically bad that year. Horrifically bad. And the guy said biting kneecaps the winner.

[Don Hahn]

Honestly, I think there are people in the jets organization that would chloroform Woody. If he wanted to fire Glenn, I don't think they let him do it. I think they have made a commitment as an organization that this is our guy. Now at some point they're going to have to pull the plug, but it's not going to be six weeks in. It's not going to be one year in. Maybe after a second failed year, but they gave this a five year contract. Guys.

[Alan Hahn]

I think he quits before they fire him.

[Don Hahn]

That might happen. You know, maybe. Maybe he just walks away and says.

[Alan Hahn]

This isn't for me.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just gonna be a defensive coordinator.

[Alan Hahn]

He's just like, you know what? This is this. There's just too much going on here. He blame the owner, whatever it is.

[Don Hahn]

He doesn't look like that type of personality to do that.

[Alan Hahn]

But he survived a 3 and 13. But.

[Don Hahn]

And that's all they talk about. He brought it up again yesterday in the post game.

[Alan Hahn]

It's all he's got.

[Don Hahn]

But I. Because I believe in my heart, I can't prove this to anybody, but I usually have a pretty good instinct doing this for 30 years. I think they saw this coming.

[Alan Hahn]

They did.

[Don Hahn]

So I don't think there's the panic in that room. I don't think there's the embarrassment in the room that we think there is. Because I believe they saw this was on the table as a possibility and they were willing to go with it. And that's why they told Woody, don't get freaked out. This is our guy.

[Alan Hahn]

What's that?

[Don Hahn]

What? What?

[Alan Hahn]

And this is going to sound like excuse making, but it's just because I'm thinking of things. What's their point differential?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll tell you right now. You ready?

[Alan Hahn]

Their point differential per game has got.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To be minus 47.

[Alan Hahn]

It's worse than I thought.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I mean, listen, The Bengals are minus 80 and they're 2 and 4.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's okay. I'm trying to put it in perspective because it does feel like at least.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Titans are minus 78.

[Alan Hahn]

The one game was just a disaster, but they've been. Which means it's like a finish which bad teams can't finish.

[Don Hahn]

Right? They were in the Steeler game. Should have won it. They had a lead late in the fourth quarter against the Bucks. Didn't win it lost by two points yesterday. And with any kind of competence at least set up for a game winning field goal in that game. That's three. That's half your games right there.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, there you go.

[Don Hahn]

All right. They, as much as I was having fun during the coach cast, the couch cast, they weren't beating Miami, although that was a one possession game. They got blown out by Buffalo and blown out by Dallas.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. So, yeah, the Dallas game was the.

[Don Hahn]

Embarrassing one, especially when you see Dallas since then. Right. I mean, although that Carolina, you know, that Carolina team's not bad, man.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

You know, I watched a lot of that game. They're not good, but, you know, anybody just circling that as a definite win.

[Alan Hahn]

Dallas's defense is pathetic. Their secondary can't tackle.

[Don Hahn]

No, they're.

[Alan Hahn]

They're pathetic.

[Don Hahn]

They're bad. Gary Myers reached out to me and he knows the history better than I do. He said that George Young handpicked Ray Hanley, not Parcells. My memory was that Parcells was on board, but whether he was hand picked, Gary would know better than me.

[Alan Hahn]

But I want Parcells handpicked Belichick for the Jet job.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, but, but maybe Gary can let me know. I, I did think Bill was on board. It was asked, but maybe he was just being kind. I don't know. But. And George and Bill did not get along really, I think ever. But certainly towards the end there. So George was going to win any face off by the time it got to that 1-800- now,193776. Let's go to Jimmy in Los Angeles. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Jimmy? Hi, Don. Hi, Alan. Hi, Peter. First, Don, congratulations on the, on the Devil's gigs. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I've been following the jets since I was 12 years old. I'm 70, so I became a fan about 6 in 67 or 60. I had season tickets from 75 through 2010. And like one of you, like I think you said, Alan, I'm at a point where I'm spent. I mean, it's like if there's something better for me to do on a Sunday morning, now I'm going to do it because it's just so frustrating, you know? And my theory is, is that I don't think the jets are an attractive place given the owner, given the franchi a destination for an experienced head coach. There's no way. And you guys could, we could argue the point. Mike Rabel was not coming to the New York Jets.

[Alan Hahn]

Nope.

[Don Hahn]

Number one, Ben Johnson was not going to come to the New.

[Alan Hahn]

He told him there's no way that.

[Don Hahn]

Jim Harbaugh was going to come to the New York jets when he wanted to leave Michigan two years ago. And no way that Pete Carroll is going to come back.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll give you the only coach, Jimmy, I'll give you the only experienced head coach who has coached in multiple spots that would take this job. You know who it is?

[Don Hahn]

Who?

[Alan Hahn]

Rex Ryan. Yes, the only one.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, he would take it if they offered it to him.

[Alan Hahn]

And they didn't even talk to him barely. I think they. They gave him like a token interview. Now, could you argue that the jets right now would have a better record than 06 if Rex Ryan was the head coach?

[Don Hahn]

Yes, I think he would because there'd be experience.

[Alan Hahn]

They wouldn't have done some of the.

[Don Hahn]

Things they did because I think there's. We get so caught up in what these coordinators bring to the table as far as their level of expertise. But there is an art to two minute drives and making decisions on timeouts and whether to go for two and all that. And it kind of makes sense, guys, that an inexperienced coach would probably screw that up. Right. So Rex, having coached in this league, how many years with the jets, it was what, 09 through 14. And then the couple of years with Buffalo, just experience alone, I think wins them that game yesterday.

[Alan Hahn]

Mm. You don't know whether the coordinator, how many times he's vetoed by the head coach when a play is sent in. How many times has a head coach got the headset and he hears the call and he goes, no, no, no, no, do this.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Like you don't know.

[Don Hahn]

You can only judge them on, like, even Dable. Okay, well, Dable, look what he did with Josh Allen. Now, we don't know if he's responsible for Josh Allen, but even if he was, okay, he's good at. He's a quarterback whisperer. But there's a lot of other things to go into the job, but making the quarterback better. There's a lot of in game decisions, game planning, a lot. It's a very, very difficult job. I'm with the greatest coordinators of all time. Haven't been able to do it.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm with you on the idea that whether jets fans like it or not, you got to settle in with this head coach with Aaron Glenn. He's got to figure it out. His career, by the way, trajectory since he left the job he was doing after football and just decided, I want to be a coach, I need to get back in the sport. And started at the ground when he was a scout, he moved up fast, which tells you he's a quick learner. He's figured things out and he got to a Point where he was defensive coordinator of one of the top teams in the NFL. You got to feel like he'll get it right at some point. He'll. He'll. He'll be a guy that. That learns it. But you got to go through the pain and the struggle. I've always said, you know, we always talk about players developing. We never, we never give a coach time to develop. It's always going to be like, win, now you're out. You should know. You should know. Well, just like a young quarterback, he's got to figure it out. He needs repped. He's got to understand how this works. I think a head coach is the same way. So if you're ever going to give anybody a little bit of rope, don't you think it has to be a guy that actually played here, had some pride in the organization, wanted to coach here. So I'm not ready to run him out of town at all. But I do know that the marriage to Justin Fields is one that should be tenuous. It should not be something that they dig deep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, it was always tenuous.

[Don Hahn]

I don't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't.

[Don Hahn]

Wasn't.

[Alan Hahn]

When they brought him in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, I think wanted it to work. They wanted it to work.

[Alan Hahn]

You got to know what you got here, and it's not much.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was. Yeah, it was. It was. That was a Vegas wedding.

[Alan Hahn]

It.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was a. Hey, we're having fun. This could work out. Why not give it a shot? Me and you, 20 million. Let's make it work. If it doesn't work, guess what? We'll sober up and get divorced. You know what I mean?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I'm all. I am all for the organization saying we want to ride it out with Justin Fields. If it's just to keep Wilson happy, that's not a reason. Because the rest of the teams probably.

[Alan Hahn]

Doesn'T look happy to me.

[Don Hahn]

Well, was it because of who his quarterback was or because of the play calling? At the end of the day, he.

[Alan Hahn]

Was mad at the play. He was mad at the. Offended that they. That they basically took a knee.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. At the very least. And listen, he said after the game is because he didn't want to give Denver the ball back. He admitted earlier today that he made a mistake. At the very minimum, guys just heave up a Hail Mary, balls midfield, something or something. Maybe you get a defensive hold, maybe you get a pass interference, maybe they catch it. Who knows? Anything? That was a debacle. But one of the things I do, whatever sport it is, the question I've Been asking on the air or if I'm covering a game. Alan, I'm sure you've done it. Peter is. Whenever somebody is in his second or third year, it's like, how much better are you now than when you first got called up?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

It's always a great question because it's interesting to get the answer. But the answer usually is always, oh, I'm way better. I know this. More the same works for coaches. Aaron Glenn's gonna look back and he's gonna cringe in a few years that he did what he did. You hope, and maybe it's a learning experience. If it keeps happening, guys, and he's just as bad a coach in week 17 as he was yesterday, well, then, you know, I'll be with you. That maybe this is something that he need to revisit. But right now, you make mistakes, you learn from them, and that happens to the best.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You want to hear this, Doc? You want to hear Garrett Wilson on the play call at the end of the half?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's Garrett.

[Don Hahn]

I just didn't know exactly what the plan was. Thought we were. Once we, you know, converted the fourth.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Down, I just thought we were going.

[Don Hahn]

For the, you know, trying to make the play. And then obviously, we get to another fourth down, and it's a tough spot to be in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So in hindsight, I get why they did that.

[Don Hahn]

But in the moment, I was just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, I don't know.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, no plan. I mean, we can criticize any plan, but when there's no plan, that's.

[Alan Hahn]

No, Don. The plan showed you the lack of trust in what he had on the field. He did not trust Justin Fields in that moment. And that would have told you he doesn't trust his quarterback to make a play. So I'm guessing that means at halftime they're probably going to change the quarterback. And he's thinking, we got the ball to start the third. Let's just go fresh. We'll go with Tyrod Taylor and let's see if we can make something happen there rather than him throw another duck and it's going the other way, or it's a turnover on downs, they've got timeouts, and maybe they take a shot. Now they score and we make a mistake. He showed you a lack of trust and confidence in what he had on the field, but then he didn't make a change.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Which was really surprising.

[Don Hahn]

And why. And that's why I wonder how much of that is that there's other people controlling his decisions. And then you wonder what was the real reason that Fields was brought here and was this all just kind of a, you know, under the table deal of hey, we'll give you a contract and we'll make sure you're happy because we'll have your quarterback until we turn the corner. I don't like those types of things, Allen. I want the coaches and the general manager to make the decisions on personnel, but is this just a way to make Garrett Wilson happy? I don't know. I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

All I know is my hashtag is less4more this episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Talk about stepping up.

[Don Hahn]

It's time to level up your game. Introducing the all new new ESPN app.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

For More on the ESPN app or.

[Peter Rosenberg]

At stream.espn.com Sign up now.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. This is the NFL Binge.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ladies and gentlemen. I am back from Perth, Australia and ready to binge. I gotta tell you guys I was able to binge a little bit on the the plane yesterday. I was on Qatar Airways. They have the that Elon Musk Internet Starlink on the plane. You guys experienced this yet?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Is it super fast?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean enough that I was streaming my DirecTV app just watching Foosball.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Threw up a little a little VPN and then logged into my DirecTV so I was able to watch the jets be horrible you know, I don't know, over the Indian Ocean somewhere. So everyone was able to binge on some foosball yesterday. And the jets game was horrifying, but there were entertaining games. The Chargers back in the win column. They squeak by the dolphins 29, 27. But the story came after the game. The big story that is with Tua Tung of a loa saying this.

[Don Hahn]

I think it starts with the leadership in helping articulate that for the guys. And then what we're expecting out of the guys, right? We're expecting this. Are we getting that? Are we not getting that? We have guys showing up to player only meetings late. Guys not showing up to player only meeting. Like there's a lot that goes into that. Do we have to make this mandatory?

[Alan Hahn]

Do we not have to make this mandatory?

[Don Hahn]

So it's a lot of things of that nature that we got to get cleaned up. And it starts with the little things like that. To be clear, you're saying some players were late or missed late. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm confused though, because you're taking a shot at leadership. But then when you say players show up to a players only meeting. Show up late to a players only meeting.

[Alan Hahn]

Guys, he's not talking about coaching. He's talking about player leadership. He's talking about the locker room. They got problems with that roster. They got guys on the team that don't care. That's what he's saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but if you're saying. Well, I guess what I'm saying is.

[Alan Hahn]

I think he's talking about Ty Hill.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you're the quarterback. If you're talking about player leadership not being good.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you, that's you. There's no higher leader.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a little weird. McDaniels was asked about it. Here's what McDaniels said.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I didn't. Player led meetings are extra things outside of what I demand. We've been very accountable. To me, it sounds like there was something on his mind with regard to the specific meetings with a couple individuals that he was trying to get corrected by being with direct communication. So I think that's the only way to lead as far as where we've been at as a program. I think we've opened the air on all, all of that and it's very clear how we hold people accountable. And you know, where am I? What's non negotiable with all those things? So clearly he's sending a message.

[Alan Hahn]

Clearly you think it's. You think Hill's part of this problem.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he's not there now.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, he's gone. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, unless he's may not be texting you quickly from couch.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I totally forgot about that injury. Well, it just seemed like he was one of the guys that was checked out when it comes to the team. Listen, last year. No, it did, but he can't obviously. Then obviously he's not the only one. They got a problem there.

[Don Hahn]

Two is not going after the coach because I think they checked out on him a long time ago.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, he doesn't even know who's coaching anymore.

[Don Hahn]

So the players are all trying to take care of business until the inevitable ax falls on McDaniel. And that's hard to do. So I don't. I understand what you're saying, Peter. The quarterback should take over that leadership. But it sounds to me like there was these player only meetings were probably to talk about how are we going to deal with not being coached. And none of these players really seem to be interested. I think they're just trying to get through this, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It can happen quick in the NFL, you know. Listen, there's a moment when Jerry Jones was very excited to see Rico Dowdle just going off and then he realized he's no longer on the Cowboys. He. He's been traded.

[Don Hahn]

First down and 10 from the 36 of Dallas.

[Peter Rosenberg]

ETN remains in the game.

[Don Hahn]

Orbit motion again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Shotgun snap fake to Dowdle. Young backpedaling flush to his left.

[Don Hahn]

Throws down field.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Down a wide open 10 5. Touchdown Rico Dowdle. Buckle up. 239 yards from scrimmage against his former team. The Panthers pull off the upset. And the Cowboys. Just when you think you're starting to figure out who these teams are, guys, the Panthers looked like the absolute worst team in the league. The Cowboys looked like they were going the right direction and they end up getting outscored by the Panthers yesterday. Weird league, guys. You think by November we'll know who these teams are? Maybe by November.

[Don Hahn]

I think we know Dallas isn't good.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go, Don.

[Don Hahn]

Dallas is not a good team. And, and it's frustrating watching that game because it was great because we had a day off in Columbus so we all, the whole crew went to a restaurant. I just spent the entire day watching football, Peter. I never gone to a restaurant, had lunch and dinner in the same thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You've never done that?

[Don Hahn]

I've never done that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love what you've done. And let's just talk about for Don, what a beautiful thing this is. Because if Don's home, he is committed to all things the Kids.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And when you're on the road with a day off, there's nothing you can do, like for the kids, like, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. So you got to have a pure, unadulterated, old school foot. How good was it?

[Alan Hahn]

Don't be a home.

[Don Hahn]

With the jets being at 9:30 and that game's over at like 12:30 and no Giants, then I would have been doing anything but football.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

But instead it was the complete polar opposite. Every game on, oh, look at you. You know, get there at 1 o', clock, you're leaving at 7:30 game.

[Alan Hahn]

I went back, we had one of these Sundays in LA.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, it's great. And then it's over by 4:30.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, I was the best. But you know, even better is when, like when, when, when you checked in with Nancy during the day, when you're like, oh, it's just, I'm bored. It's just the worst.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, babe, I miss you.

[Alan Hahn]

I never want to be like, this is great. I'm just sitting here. They got my own table.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've been here all day.

[Alan Hahn]

This is all. No, you're like, ah, it's, this is the thing.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. The guys dragged me out to watch some football, so I'm gonna do this for a while.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I, I, God, I wish I was.

[Don Hahn]

Hopefully somebody gets the bill so I can get the hell out of here.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Go back to the room and start.

[Don Hahn]

Prepping, you know, nice lives. And yesterday was, it was like 70. Not a cloud in the sky. Meanwhile, Nor' Easter's on its way to New Jersey.

[Alan Hahn]

It was, it was rough batting down the hatches at home and you're like, oh, sorry about that.

[Don Hahn]

But, you know, watching that Cowboy and it's frustrating, Peter, because if the Giants had taken care of business against the Saints and the Cowboys, which is not asking a lot, think of how what a great situation they'd be in. Wins in the division against the Cowboys and the Eagles, and they'd be ahead of, you know, two of the three teams and, you know, as far as tiebreakers, it just, oh, it was so. As much as I love watching the Cowboys lose.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it was almost annoying. And to know if you'd had that win, which they could have so easily had. All right, battle a battle. Four in one team, somehow a lot of injuries. And the Bucs end up coming out on top yet again. They continue to roll. Here's how it sounded on 98 Rock in Tampa.

[Alan Hahn]

Shotgun.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look.

[Don Hahn]

Tucker in the backfield in motion. Baker, Mayfield Bell. Hi, Snap. Looks upfield, throws the ball downfield.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's got a receiver open. It's a club ball. Touchdown, Tampa. Murray. Touchdown, Buccaneers. It's Taz Johnson. Touchdown, Buccaneers. What a throw by Becker Mayfield.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch was insane, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, by the way, Baker was insane. In general, the Niners lose Fred Warner for the year with an ankle injury. Also, Tampa rookie stand out Amica Buka left the game with a hamstring injury. But the story, of course, is another incredible game for Baker Mayfield, who's making a truly legitimate case for mvp. Except his teammate Tez Johnson, who had his first good game yesterday, thought the MVP chants were for him. When I score and I hear MVP.

[Alan Hahn]

Chant, I'm thinking, they talking about me. So I asked Shep. I'm like, shep. They was chanting mvp.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he was like, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

I was like, I ain't do nothing this year. And then he was like, they talking about Baker test.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was like, well, that explains it. But he is the mvp.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm just like, oh, my God, he's a dog.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know what he eat in his.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Putting in his cereal before the game.

[Don Hahn]

Like, that guy it every.

[Alan Hahn]

Every single week. I love that he told the story that he did. Like, ah, is that stupid? I thought it was for me, like, he's got no filter, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. And. And honestly then goes, I haven't even done anything this year.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that was great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think he has a hundred total yards this year. You know, Yesterday he had 45.

[Alan Hahn]

But he's like, catch was something.

[Don Hahn]

Baker's doing this in t. Can you imagine if Baker Mayfield played New York? Can you imagine if he played for the Cowboys, boys?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, his moxie, his. He's got going on. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. You know what I'd imagine, Don? I imagine if he played in New York or probably in Dallas, he never would have become who he became. Maybe he would have continued to flounder.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I think with watch. What if he liked it? Like. Like he signed with Tampa and kind of like, did they trade for him first? Remember, he came later in that year.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

If I'm not mistaken.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep. And then he earned his deal and.

[Alan Hahn]

Signed, and they kind of, like, played well enough for them to say, you know, we want to keep you around. And then he's really.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You mean, if. So if once he was already estab. He was here and you got to have him. Oh, he'd be so popular, that guy.

[Alan Hahn]

He'd be the man.

[Don Hahn]

He's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, listen, it'd be Aaron Judge.

[Alan Hahn]

Jalen Brunson and Baker Mayfield would be three most popular athletes in New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, look at what people are doing for Jackson Dart already.

[Don Hahn]

That's why I brought it up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Baker, in one game this year, will have eclipsed everything Jackson Dart has done. The plays that make people get happy for Dart. That's a first half for Baker Mayfield.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, he's just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's running when he needs to. He has an underrated cannon, too. He's really got.

[Alan Hahn]

He could throw.

[Don Hahn]

I don't think this is hyperbole. You can make a movie about him. I mean, he was dead how many different times.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he's got. He wants. He wins a Super bowl, he's got to get himself a Super Bowl. Now you got your story.

[Don Hahn]

And listen how wide open this NFC is. Can you say that that's not on the table?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's on the table, sure.

[Alan Hahn]

But just so you guys know, to be clear. So he did end up signing with Tampa in the offseason. They actually bet on him after he had that little renaissance from Carolina to the Rams. That's what it was. And Don, you brought that up. He showed up with the Rams and like, within a day, he had to start right away and played really well. And what he showed with la, I think, is what made Tampa say they wanted to give a chance, take a chance on him. And it's been one of the smartest moves they've ever made, other than, of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Course, by the way, speaking of which, and this isn't part of my binge, but I'll throw it in there, because you mentioned Carolina, which made me think of Darnold. Seattle goes on the road, wins against Jacksonville. I get that game wrong. Sam Darnold, 16 to 27, 295, two touchdowns, no picks another win. Seattle's up to four and two.

[Alan Hahn]

I actually had a question about that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peter, go ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

Because usually when you give. If somebody's not here, I try to give their reasoning and I couldn't figure yours out.

[Don Hahn]

Because you've been so high on Sam Donald.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love Sam.

[Don Hahn]

And you didn't pick him.

[Alan Hahn]

Were you just high on the Jaguars.

[Don Hahn]

Beating the Chiefs and you thought they were just going to ride that momentum, Correct?

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, I was right then.

[Don Hahn]

It was a. It was a. It was a. Thank you was one of those Jeter baskets to the Jaguars for being the Chiefs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jaguars at home. And they've been pretty good. I mean, the Jaguars were at that point, one, only one loss. I just liked him at home. And although. And I'd gone up against Seattle a couple Weeks in a row. So for some reason I was having an anti Seattle moment. By the way, I got screwed over by Detroit and the referees. Let's get to that. Sunday Night football. Chiefs bounce back from that loss in Jacksonville with a 3017 win over the Lions. Kansas City second game with 30 or more points this season, which matches their total from all of last season. Mahomes Four touchdowns, including two to Hollywood Brown. Here's how the second one sounded. A 96.5 the game.

[Don Hahn]

Pacheco motioning left. Mahomes in the pocket, darts it near side.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Touchdown, Kansas City. Hollywood Brown is having a night and the Chiefs answer a touchdown with a touchdown to go up 26:17. Now after the game, lion safety Brian Branch slapped JuJu Smith. Schuster blindsided him. Dan Campbell talked about it with the media after the game.

[Don Hahn]

I love Brian Branch going. What he did is inexcusable and it's not going to be accepted here. It's not what we do. It's not what we're about. I apologize to Coach Reed and the Chiefs and Schuster. That's not okay. That's not what we do here, and it's not going to be okay. He knows it, our team knows it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's not what we do. Was that. Was that a head coach saying I love someone but holding them accountable?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And also, you know why? Because you know what Dan Campbell's doing there? He's saying that's not what our organization is going to be about. That's not what we represent. And we're going to make that clear. We're going to be class organization. I love everything about that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Me too.

[Alan Hahn]

I might lose the player for a minute, but everybody knows what we're about. You saw too, Mahomes went over to Branch at the end of the game, tried to like, dap him up and.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He ignored right by him.

[Alan Hahn]

And then he went right because he went right for Schuster.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, Lions had a touchdown taken off the board yesterday. No penalties on on the Chiefs yesterday in 60 minutes of football as they get the 3017 win.

[Don Hahn]

Hard to believe, but I guess they.

[Alan Hahn]

Want him to win.

[Don Hahn]

Very disciplined.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's weird, right, Don? It's just that extra level of discipline. Now, tonight's action, we got an ESPN ABC doubleheader, 715, the Bills at the Falcons and then the Hail mary rematch at 8:15. You know where the Rosenberg household will be locked in? Bears at the Commanders, Kayla Williams versus Jaden Daniels. That'll do it for your NFL binge. Week six already, guys. Week six.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And you Know, it just shows you just how wide open it is, like, who is the best team in the nfc. And I think Washington certainly is in the conversation if they can take care of business tonight. Remember, their one loss came without their starting quarterback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

2.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We have two losses.

[Alan Hahn]

Sorry.

[Don Hahn]

Well, one of the losses came with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A starting quarter one. One was against Green Bay where he seemed outmatched. Then Jaden got hurt and then they lost one without him.

[Alan Hahn]

Would you put.

[Don Hahn]

Green Bay does not look like what they were supposed to be. Sorry, Alan.

[Alan Hahn]

They don't. And you're right. And I was. To me, I'm thinking like, if you're going to, let's just do NFC here and then on the other side if you want to do afc. But like, is Washington and Detroit equal? The Eagles below, both of them now, because of what the Eagles have looked like. And now we start to wonder if there are some issues internally in Philadelphia that take down super bowl champs and make you think that they're going to. They might fade a little here. Right. Like Detroit. But despite the loss, they've been really good. They got to get healthy. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Their secondary is really banged up and Chris Collinsworth mentioned it last night. Once those guys get back healthy, they could. They could go on a terror. So I think Detroit's fine. I think Washington is outstanding. Philadelphia looks broken, but they're still.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But they're still on top in the.

[Don Hahn]

Division, you know, but we'll get into the AFC next, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And don't forget Tampa's 5 1. Now Tampa's got some issues, too, and they're hanging on by the skin of their teeth. But they're 5 and 1.

[Don Hahn]

You know, they're not in a great division, but still, I mean, they're winning games. They're finding a way. They got the quarterback play and Bowles has been coaching. I think they. I think it's really wide open. We'll look at the AFC2.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Peter, while you're away, Alan and I just talked about parody and how sometimes it's frustrating, even though it can be looked upon as exciting, that everybody's got a chance to win. Not having that clear, dominant team. And yesterday was an example of that, of just how many teams have a shot here. And we talked about the nfc. Eagles look broken. Cowboys certainly are broken. Packers are not what we thought they were going to be. The west seems wide open. Is it the Rams that? Is it the Seahawks? Tampa Bay has to be given consideration despite the division that they're in. AFC is kind of the same thing. Did the Kansas City write their ship last night? Are the Chargers all that we thought they were to start the season. They did win against Miami, but they blew a huge lead in that game. You know, but we'll see Buffalo tonight against Atlanta. Would think they'd handle business there, but God, it just seems it's so wide open and Baltimore's cooked, right? I mean, I think Baltimore's done.

[Alan Hahn]

I do too.

[Don Hahn]

And Pittsburgh's going to win that division going away, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's the thing.

[Don Hahn]

I can't imagine that they're going to be, they might not even be a favorite in their first playoff game when they get there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I, I would have believed that the Ravens, you know, they, if they get, they'll get Lamar back, right? They have the, the Bears next week, then they're at the Dolphins, then they're at the Vikings. Like they have some games they could win in theory, but the whole so big with how well Pittsburgh's playing. And again, you can get Lamar back all you want. He's not going to play on both sides of the ball.

[Alan Hahn]

That's the problem.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They don't play defense.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, their defense is terrible.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it's. I'm enjoying it. Listen, the Ravens have been good for basically every year since they existed and in the D.C. area. Like to see so many people I knew who became Ravens fans and the commanders were just the worst team. I'm enjoying this a bit, but I imagine next year they'll be back. But here's my question, guys. What does your record get to, to where you're like, we're barely going to use Lamar this year. You know, when you have a guy like him, a multi time mvp, who from an offensive standpoint is the difference between you being fantastic or nothing. I wonder, guys, like if they get to 1 in 8, how much Cooper rush are you seeing in the second half of the year? Like, I just wonder how much you use them.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's the same thing as, as, as Joe Burrow right in Cincinnati.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If they can't, if they can't keep the wheels on.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what I mean. Like wouldn't you want to wrap your guy in bubble wrap? He won't want it. But the smart thing to do is just say, you know what? This isn't a year. Let's, let's keep some tread on the tire instead of just having you play for almost no reason.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's all on.

[Alan Hahn]

It's all on pick, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's all on Pittsburgh. Now Pittsburgh's at Cincy this week, right? So if Cincy were to somehow steal that game, obviously that could change. They have three wins then, right? And then. And then Pittsburgh has the packers and then they have the Colts, which now looks impossible. Then they're at the Chargers. So the Steelers will get to a very tough part of their schedule where if you could pull it together and you're. And you're Joe Burrow, you're thinking, let me get back there. Because, guys, I could picture a world in which the Steelers look great right now, but the whole thing doesn't stay together the entire season. I can believe that.

[Alan Hahn]

Peter, where's the. Where's the game between the Steelers and.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The packers that is home for Pittsburgh.

[Alan Hahn]

If that's in Green Bay.

[Don Hahn]

Wow. Yeah. Rogers can still play, though. Yeah, he threw. He threw some absolute dimes in that game. And it just makes you laugh like, nah, the jets didn't need.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, they said we're all set.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not that saying that he'd be doing this here, but it certainly. They wouldn't be own six, that's for sure. But they obviously had designs on other things.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ten touchdowns, three interceptions, over a thousand yards this year. You take that if you're the Jets.

[Alan Hahn]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So prorate that out. You know, as a guy that's going to be high 20s, you know, probably 3200 yards, maybe more. And then I'll tell you, I watched the packers are just not. There's just. They're not what we thought they were. But you know, they're. They're blowing out Cleveland and Flaco's doing nothing in the. The first half.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

He ended up throwing for like what, like a buck to 220. And I'm watching him play and I'm like, the guy's going to be 41 flicking it in January and he can't move. And yet he still was doing some things against a really good defense. Now I'm not going to sit there and talk him up like he's great shakes, but boy, it just shows you that that position's like 80% experience in smarts. Right. Because what does he got Left? Gonna be 41 years old. Same thing with Rogers. Like, Rogers can move a lot better and he's in a better state with his body, I think, than. Than Flacco is with his. Because Flacco was out of league and Everything but, you know, give it. Given those moments, he made that game a lot more competitive.

[Alan Hahn]

All you have to be is accurate first and foremost. Right.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that helps.

[Alan Hahn]

Nowhere to throw it but accuracy. And he's like that. The first touchdown he threw in the back of the end zone, that was something. Throw little sidearm. Not sidearm, but, you know, just change a little bit. That was a hell of a throw.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Think about how bad a place the Bengals had to be in that. The Browns said, we're all set.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the Bengals said, ooh, can we. Can we get a little flacco in our lives? God, it is the most. The backup quarterback is such an underrated value. If you're a team that. If you're a team who believes that with your starter you can compete for a championship, you. If you don't have a backup that's like, reasonably good. It's professional malfeasance, as Michael K. Might say. You have to have it.

[Alan Hahn]

Remember the story. The story went, they didn't know that there was a team calling about him. They didn't know that he was going to get traded. It's not like they wanted to trade him. Right.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

The Browns weren't looking to trade them.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's interesting, but yeah, I mean, not a bet. Not a bad performance, though. No. Didn't turn the ball over. All you can ask for is bring someone in who can move the ball down the field, get you into field goal range if you need it, not turn it over. Something the jets do not have.

[Don Hahn]

Just, let's play smart. Play smart football. And. And he's got good receivers, so he doesn't have to do a ton. Just throw accurately, try to buy some time. That's why I'm so glad you said about the nine sacks that. That Fields went through. It's so easy to just put everyone on the offensive line, but a lot of these. A lot of these sacks, just the quarterback holding the ball too long or just not knowing what to do or not being able to. To move. A lot. A lot of it ends up on the quarterback. So. So as we talk about this parody right now, as we conclude week six, who's going to the Super Bowl?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a great question. Great question.

[Don Hahn]

Let's start with Alan Hahn because his first letters.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A. I like this.

[Alan Hahn]

Who's going to the. We're in the afc or are we.

[Don Hahn]

Doing right now super bowl matchup now. Say it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go.

[Don Hahn]

Be a go.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm putting Buffalo in. I'm. I'm buying Buffalo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's Hard not to.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This. This gets tougher and then it gets tougher.

[Alan Hahn]

I want to say Tampa, but I feel like the magic runs out. It's like at some point you're gonna. You're gonna pay for having to have every time you're coming back to win late in a game. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You'll get a good taste. Alan, they're at the Lions this weekend.

[Alan Hahn]

That's. See, I. I still am leaning Lions.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. I was just gonna say I. I thought that would. Right now, I would say because it's wide open, that we'll get that matchup that we almost got two years ago. I'm going to go Buffalo, Detroit. I think Detroit's going to get healthy just at the right time, and they're going to get hot just at the right time. And I still think despite what happened last week against New England, because the Patriots are a little bit better than we're giving them credit for, that it'll finally be the Bills year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How about you, Peter? I think I go the same way. I don't think that. I don't think Indy is there. Right. It's a great start. We in agreement, but I don't at this point. Now, here's the only thing. The unfortunate and scary thing is, guys, I could see a world very easily where here we are again, championship weekend. It's Buffalo and Kansas City. They find a way back. They put it together piece by piece, brick by brick. They get the right matchups. You know, they beat Houston one round, they beat Pittsburgh in another, and then here they are playing Buffalo. It would probably be in Buffalo, but we've seen them able to do that before, so that's the only thing that scares me. But I'll go with Buffalo there. I still worry about the Eagles in the nfc. The last two weeks they have looked completely lost on, as you've said. But I have to think that as time goes on, they'll probably meet out to still be the Eagles. And I with. With my commanders. I just got to see more. I. I love the idea of saying they could compete for the conference.

[Don Hahn]

I think they're there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's talk in a few weeks, though. Let's. Let's see that they go at home this week. They're favored by three and a half against Chicago at home. Let me see that. Or four and a half. Let me see that. They win the games they should win. And then you'd be saying, hey, we're going to get another. Detroit will get a matchup, a rematch against Washington, and this time I'd probably say I'd like Detroit to beat them a second time. And then if I'm not going to get the Commanders in the Super Bowl, I think the entire league, if you're if your team's not in it, aren't you rooting for Buffalo? Detroit? Isn't that what everyone would love to see?

[Don Hahn]

I think that would be. That would be pretty special. To see those two franchises that have never won play each other would be awesome.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Here my more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.