Hour 2: Micahel Jordan & Let's Talk About It

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Michael Jordan & Let’s Talk About It

Date: February 17, 2026
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Don La Greca
Episode Theme:
This hour delves into the enduring legacy and unique greatness of Michael Jordan, the shifting landscape of sports fandom due to modern consumption, the NBA’s tanking debate (sparked by Mark Cuban’s comments), and the workplace scandal involving MLBPA’s Tony Clark. The hosts thoughtfully balance nostalgia, sports analysis, fan psychology, and off-beat, character-driven conversations with their trademark New York authenticity and banter.

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Michael Jordan: A Legacy Like No Other

[03:32 – 20:46]

The Irreplicable Brilliance of Jordan

• The crew reminisces as ESPN airs Jordan’s top 10 highlights for his birthday.
• Hahn wonders if their sense of Jordan’s highlights being unmatched is generational or objective.
  • Dave: “Are Michael Jordan’s true highlights legitimately much better than anyone else has ever? …Or is it just us?”
• Anthony (paraphrased): “He is the most compelling, breathtaking athlete you could ever watch.” [04:07]
  • Kobe’s highlights “always felt like a Jordan impression.” [04:17]
• Jacob summarizes the younger fan’s perspective: “I think it stands above most… I’ve seen enough Jordan highlights where I’m just kind of numb to it at this point... But people always react, ‘wow, this is probably like, the best thing I’ve ever seen.’” [04:45]

Jordan vs. Other Athletic Legends

• Hahn highlights how Jordan combines greatest highlights and greatest player – rare in sports:
  • "No better highlight to watch of boxing than Tyson. But he's not... the greatest fighter of all time... Barry Sanders is up there... But the highlights are the greatest. Jordan is both greatest highlights you’ll ever see—greatest play." [07:12]
  • “It’s the rare combination.” – Anthony [07:35]
• The crew reflects on "The Last Dance" as an endlessly rewatchable documentary:
  • “The Last Dance is like the Goodfellas of docs. When it comes on, you just keep watching.” – Dave [07:58]
  • “The obsession with him never goes away. It's completely on a different level.” – Dave [11:37]
• Anthony: “It’s why when you watch Anthony Edwards and all you do is think, man, he looks just like Jordan … But the problem is, he’s a highlight guy. But if you watch him 48 minutes, there’s times where you’re like, he’s not the best player.” [09:19]

Nostalgia, Cultural Impact & The ‘Must-See’ Phenomenon

• Hahn describes witnessing Jordan’s iconic "shot over Ehlo":
  • “I remember where I was when he hit the shot over Ehlo... The legitimate true back-against-the-wall buzzer beater. And he hung in the air as the defender flew by and hit a 20-foot jumper.” [09:53]
• The hosts mourn how in today’s media environment, the magic of rarity is lost:
  • “I just don’t think it’ll ever get to where Jordan is. The world’s different now…You could watch every at-bat from Ohtani if you wanted to.” – Brian [12:27, 16:19]
  • The “must see him live before he retires” experience feels extinct (except maybe with Victor Wembanyama).

Who Could Be "Next"?

• Names like Steph Curry, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Tiger Woods, and Wembanyama are discussed as inheritors of the must-watch mantle, but all fall short of Jordan’s era-defining magnetism.
  • “Wemby... I had the opportunity to call the game... And that game was like a 138-135 kind of game... He just, watching him move, he does look like no one you’ve ever seen before. But it doesn’t hit the same.” – Anthony [17:38, 18:01]
  • “There is something to be said about those players who don’t need... humility. There is something to be said about those players who never stop. They have something that no matter how much money they have, it means nothing to them, because winning and dominating people is the ultimate currency.” – Anthony [20:10]

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Modern Fan Experience & NBA Tanking: Cuban's Controversy

[25:15 – 36:49]

Mark Cuban’s ‘Tanking’ Commentary Examined

• Cuban tweeted that the NBA’s real problem isn’t tanking but ticket affordability, and that fans want hope, not nightly wins.
  • “The NBA is misguided thinking that fans want to see their teams compete every night with a chance to win. It’s never been that way.” – Mark Cuban (read by Brian) [26:05]
  • “It’s never been that way. So fans don’t care about seeing a team win?” – Anthony [26:32]
• The hosts (especially Anthony and Brian) take strong exception:
  • “What makes the experience special? Fans know their teams can’t win every game….What fans that care about their team's record want is hope.” [Read by Brian, 27:11]
  • Anthony: “He is normalizing losing on purpose as a business strategy. That’s what he's trying to do. And I don’t like it.” [30:54]

The Business vs. Fan Passion Debate

• “Nets fans don’t care about the rest of the league. They care about their team and winning. They remember the moments because that’s why you’re there.” – Brian [28:10, paraphrased]
• The crew explores the difference between “come and go” casuals and true, invested season-long fans.

Making Tanking Worse: Cuban’s ‘Part 2’ and Solutions

• Cuban correctly points out the new “second apron” luxury tax restricts teams’ ability to maintain talent, as well as the dilution of the draft.
• Anthony pitches an innovative solution (auction system for rookies/future stars) to curb tanking and put pressure on franchises to develop strong organizations:
  • “Everybody gets the equal amount of money to spend... Now I can decide just like in college, where have a better chance to win, where’s a better chance to develop—puts the onus on the franchise: don’t suck.” [35:22]
• The hosts express deep skepticism and distaste for the idea that fans would be content simply watching a team lose cheaply year after year.

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Sports Scandal: Tony Clark’s Resignation

[36:49 – 39:32]

The Story

• MLBPA Executive Director Tony Clark resigned after an internal investigation revealed an inappropriate relationship with his sister-in-law, who was hired by the union.
  • “Jeff Passan says the MLB PA Executive Director Tony Clark resigned after an internal investigation revealed he had an inappropriate relationship with his sister in law who had been hired by the Union in 2023.” – Brian [37:05]
• The hosts are initially confused about the nature of the relationship (“which kind of sister-in-law?”) and joke about the “mess level.”

Ethics, Family, and Repercussions

• Brian and Dave discuss the broader family fallout and “which is worse”—cheating with your wife’s sister vs. your brother’s wife—with their trademark irreverence:
  • “If I cheated on Nancy with Susan, she’d be done with me and Susan. Nancy’s scorched earth.” – Brian [43:11]
  • “I just can’t help but get past the level of damage you’re doing to the wife…her sister’s a different level. That’s such an icon level.” – Dave [43:59]
• They note, ironically, that such scandals and family splits have in fact resulted in reconciliations down the line.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “The Last Dance is like the Goodfellas of docs…When it comes on, you just keep watching.” – Dave [07:58]
• “Kobe’s highlights always felt like a Jordan impression… And I think he would tell you, yeah, that’s what I was doing.” – Dave [04:17]
• “He is normalizing losing on purpose as a business strategy.” – Anthony [30:54]
• “If you want to know what’s different about one player to another, it’s less skill and more that little whatever that thing is in the DNA.” – Anthony [20:10]
• “I mean, this level of dumb. This much embarrassment. I mean, listen, we’ve all done dumb things…This level of dumb, no, no…” – Dave, on Tony Clark scandal [48:38]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:32 – 13:31: Michael Jordan’s highlight brilliance and what makes him unique
• 13:31 – 20:46: Athlete magnetism, Wembanyama, and the changing ways we consume sports
• 25:15 – 36:49: Mark Cuban’s tanking comments, contention over fan priorities, and possible reforms
• 36:49 – 39:32: Tony Clark resignation discussion and the ethics of workplace/family scandals
• 41:00 – end: Extended debate on the family/friend betrayal hypothetical

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Tone & Style

The episode combines nostalgia, sharp sports analysis, and comedic personal riffs with salty language and classic New York storytelling. The hosts play off one another’s generational perspectives and sports allegiances, creating a lively yet insightful environment fit for die-hards and casual listeners.

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Summary Takeaway

This hour captures the timelessness of Michael Jordan’s greatness, the evolving fan experience in an on-demand world, and the complicated intersections of sports, business strategy, and personal morality. It’s a discussion about what makes someone “must-see,” the amorphous line between sports as competition and entertainment, and the human flaws that can topple even those at the top.

Transcript

[Celsius Energy Narrator]

5:00Am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail].

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Brian Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Game time is brought to you by Telemardu Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, no locals in action. You know what? Your response was exactly what it deserved.

[Dave]

Yeah, about that, right?

[Brian Rosenberg]

But we do have a college basketball double header on ESPN starting with 16th ranked North Carolina against NC State. I forget which son. Is it Ben or Alex that's a big North Carolina fan. Rothenberg's son Alex. Alex is a big fan.

[Anthony]

Alex is little Dave.

[Brian Rosenberg]

So he's kind of a fraud because he's not going to North Carolina nor I think will he go to North Carolina. But it makes sense because Dave is a Georgetown fan and believe me, he didn't have the grades for that place. They're going to take on NC State, followed by Georgia at Kentucky. Tullamore Dew. The original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Telemore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore do responsibly. I'm having brunch with Dave tomorrow. I'm excited about it. I'm coming.

[Dave]

Really?

[Brian Rosenberg]

I'm meeting him at 11. I'm meeting him at 11 and I'm trying to get. Because you guys speak Dave kind of what he meant by this because I wanted to confirm that we're on for tomorrow. So during one of my breaks at kickboxing, I text him, I want to punch it up here so I can read it to you so you can translate for me. I text him and I said, are we on for tomorrow?

[Anthony]

Okay.

[Brian Rosenberg]

And he said, if it's good for you, we are. He said we. So is he bringing maybe RJ and Rick or is he.

[Dave]

No, we is you.

[Anthony]

You and him. What are you and me?

[Dave]

No. No offense, Don. What are you saying? You sound like a yo yo.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah. What did you ask? What did you ask? When I read it back because I was in. I was during my water break.

[Dave]

You said, are we on he said, yeah, we are.

[Anthony]

You go, who's we?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Who's this we now? I'm just disappointed.

[Anthony]

What are you French now?

[Dave]

I try to cover it up. I don't like it.

[Brian Rosenberg]

No, I'm not covering up. I was like, I would. It would be nice if I met there were more than just him.

[Dave]

Guys, tell me that right now.

[Anthony]

You didn't want anybody.

[Dave]

Guys, look, when you look up at your tv, tell me, tell. They went to highlights. Mike Tannenbaum. Mike T. Looks like so many different. Like, he could be like such a perfect character from a 70s or 80s TV show.

[Anthony]

He's Taggart from Beverly Hills Cop.

[Dave]

I was gonna say. I was gonna say he could just be like the super and. Oh, look, right now that's not the super in the building for your 70s TV show. Like, he's got so many people he could be from. Like, just so he could outfit on him.

[Anthony]

Character actor, any movie, any. Like, he could be a principal.

[Dave]

Oh, my T is a princess.

[Anthony]

Throw a leisure suit on.

[Brian Rosenberg]

No, no, no.

[Dave]

The short sleeve white T shirt with the top.

[Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

So if. All right. Saved by the bell, people.

[Dave]

Belding's out, so. So.

[Anthony]

And what we've heard. Belding should be out so well.

[Dave]

So they were showing top 10 Jordan highlights for. For his birthday, of course. Is it just my childhood? I guess. I guess the people to ask are Anthony and Jacob. Is it just like us being there for it? Or are Michael Jordan's true highlights legitimately much better than anyone else has ever? Is it just us?

[Anthony]

No, he. He is. I still say he is the most compelling, breathtaking athlete you could ever watch.

[Dave]

But, like. But to me, the gap is pretty big now. Kobe had his moments of highlights that.

[Anthony]

Were amazing, but it always felt like.

[Dave]

It always felt like a Jordan impression.

[Anthony]

Thank you.

[Dave]

Like, he knew and Kobe was so great that he was good enough to actually impersonate Jordan. And I don't think he'd argue any. I think he would tell you. Yeah, that's what I was doing.

[Anthony]

Pretty good guy to emulate.

[Dave]

So. But like Jacob, for example, you're much younger than us. Anthony doesn't have any use for the NBA. But Jacob, like, is it. Do Jordan highlights for you also stand above every other basketball player?

[Jacob]

I think it stands above most. I've seen enough Jordan highlights where I'm just like, kind of numb to it at this point. Between that and, like hearing stories of Jordan, like, it's all right. All right. Like, I know he's the greatest and like, I've seen, like, People's reactions who've never watched the NBA, like, watch people, different people, highlights. And every time they see a Jordan, like, or like a Westbrook or guys like that who play with, like, ferocity, they always like, wow, this is probably like, the best thing I've ever seen.

[Dave]

So even you say, like, a Westbrook completely lost me. Like, Westbrook doesn't have, like.

[Anthony]

Yeah. Of all the players you could.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I don't know who you'd name, but.

[Jacob]

I'm just going based off, like, highlight. Like, if we just showing highlights and you just see Russell Westbrook going down the lane full speed, you like, why.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Don'T more guys do it? Like.

[Dave]

No, I hear what you're saying, but for me, it's the.

[Anthony]

When.

[Dave]

When I see it, I could spend all day watching Michael Jordan up and under. Layups, like, all day. They go up on one side of the rim, float to the other side of the rim, flip it. No one else has done that.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Well, think about his contemporary. I guess he came into the league as Jordan was drafted, what, 84. 84.

[Jacob]

84, yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

So Dominique came in the year before, and he was considered the human highlight.

[Anthony]

Yes.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Wrong. Wrong nickname. Right, Right.

[Dave]

Even though he was Jordan.

[Anthony]

He was.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But then there's Jordan. It's like, how is he the human highlight film when there's Jordan? But think about now. I understand LeBron's a different player because LeBron's not the same type of player.

[Dave]

No.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Size.

[Dave]

His size also makes him feel less special.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But there's always certain players that just kind of fit. Like, I show. I show these guys the Lawrence Taylor highlights. There's no. Nobody's doing that. Nobody's taking a quarterback by the scruff of the neck and throwing him five yards like Ray Lewis never did. Nobody ever did that. He's Lawrence Taylor, the best to ever do it. And Barry Sanders. There were better running backs, but nobody ran like Barry. Making people miss. Nobody does that.

[Dave]

Really?

[Brian Rosenberg]

No, I can't think of any. Even. Even Jim Brown kind of ran through people. Right? I mean, listen, sweetness. Walter Payton, but he was still there.

[Dave]

He was still Barry.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Like, there's just certain guys, right, that just. They're great, but they also do things that just seem inhuman.

[Dave]

Well, you're right.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Perfect for highlight.

[Dave]

It doesn't always. The difference with Jordan is the best highlight guys don't always equal the best players.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Right.

[Dave]

Great example. No better highlight to watch of boxing than Tyson. But he's not. No one's arguing he's the greatest fighter of all time. Same thing you Just said with Walter Payton, I mean Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders is up there. Most people wouldn't argue he's the greatest football player who ever lived. But the highlights are the greatest. Jordan is both greatest highlights you'll ever see.

[Anthony]

The rare combination.

[Dave]

Greatest play. And we were there. I was telling. So last night on ESPN2, we were all hanging out, me and my, my wife and her brother's family and his son is getting really into basketball. He's 8 years old and whatchamacallit came on the Jordan doc. Why am I Last dance came on the last dance is. I realized guys, the last dance is like Goodfellas of docs.

[Anthony]

Correct.

[Dave]

When it comes on, you just keep watching. You're just like, it doesn't matter where, it doesn't matter where it is. And the way their timeline works. You don't even quite remember how many.

[Anthony]

Documentaries got like would you could say we had no sports going on and we once a week knew we had something to talk about.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Oh, it was like Harry that saved us during COVID But.

[Anthony]

But the point you're making though is to me what also should be part of the greatest of all time conversation. Right. Because LeBron has breathtaking highlights.

[Dave]

He does, he does.

[Anthony]

You could do a highlight package where you're just like, wow. But it doesn't, it pales in comparison because what Jordan does feels like. It's like he's in orbit. His movements are like a. You know, it's. It's like watching a ballet, watching someone who defies gravity, watching someone who has this look on his face like he's a killer, like he knows exactly what he's going to do. There's so many things about you. He's theatrical and I think that's the difference. It's why when you watch Anthony Edwards and all you do is think, man, he looks just like Jordan because he has a little bounce to him and stuff. But the problem is he's a highlight guy. But if you watch him 48 minutes, there's times where you're like, he's not.

[Dave]

He'S not the best player.

[Anthony]

He's really good.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Really good.

[Dave]

And literally looks like Jordan.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Dave]

He's got all these things that make.

[Anthony]

Him feel everything that you would think could be.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But it's.

[Anthony]

Everybody wants to make him the next face of the league. And I'm telling you, no, no, no, he can't. He like. Cuz there's more to Jordan.

[Dave]

It's, it's, it's so intangible. And I can't do you Know, I was showing off last night because my wife is 10 years younger than me, so she's. She's born in 89. Right. So I'm saying to her last night as they're getting up to the elo shot and I say to her, I'm like, babe, not to show off. And I legitimately felt cool about this. She wasn't that impressed.

[Anthony]

All right.

[Dave]

Even though she loves Last Dance and Jordan, I was like, babe, I remember where I was when he hit the shot over elo. I remember when Michael Jordan couldn't win in the playoffs. He was just great player who was losing in the playoffs. And I remember standing in front of the TV in my parents basement when I watched every minute of every NBA playoff game with no rooting interest, seeing Jordan hit the shot over Elo and going, oh my God. They were down one series on the line, three seconds left. The legitimate true back against the wall buzzer beater. And he hung in the air as the defender flew by and. And hit a 20 foot jumper.

[Anthony]

Yeah, that play.

[Dave]

To have actually lived through because that's the beginning of Jordan becoming.

[Anthony]

Yeah, Jordan, the 63 points was a first moment that you.

[Dave]

I don't remember that. And I was this guy I just.

[Anthony]

Missed like in terms of Celtics by himself.

[Rich Eisen]

Right.

[Dave]

And lost.

[Anthony]

Right. People don't want to talk about that. But it's like that was like the first. Like, okay, this guy's special. But that moment was, this guy's a winner.

[Dave]

Well, they also said one thing they focused on that I didn't remember that. You probably do is that Doug Collins first game was at MSG to open the season. And Jordan drops 50 on the Knicks, setting the record for an opposing player at Madison Square garden. Now it's 20, 25, 20, 26. Y' all have heard 50s and 60s and Clay gets 50 and this one back then there was no getting 50. It was like all I heard was.

[Anthony]

Larry Bird got 50 and Wilt Chamberlain.

[Dave]

You just heard stories of it. Like you didn't see. See it just happen. No, even Larry, it only happened a couple times. Like. So it's just when you, when you re watch the Last dance, you are reminded of why the obsession with him never goes away. It's completely on a different level.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Right.

[Anthony]

Which is why it's to me absurd to try to make an argument about anyone being better.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You can't.

[Anthony]

It's impossible because you can't just make it about basketball.

[Dave]

My opinion, it's not just one of the things, not just the basketball. It's not just the highlights. It's not just. It's all of it.

[Anthony]

He did all.

[Dave]

It's why last year I was desperate in the World Series for Shohei to have a lights out game when he came back and pitched Game 7. Because if show had pitched like a 2 hitter in Game 7, then we're going, oh, my God, we found him.

[Anthony]

Because he had a moment.

[Dave]

He was right. He was right on the verge. And instead he stays at that top ilk where him and Judge are just phenomenal. But they're not like, literally the greatest player we've ever seen.

[Anthony]

Like legendary.

[Dave]

They're right there. They're amazing.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But I just don't think it'll ever get to where Jordan is. The world's different now. The way we consume is different now. Like, we didn't have a lot of options, a lot of things to watch. Like, right? Because even though Shohei didn't get there, Shohei's pitching and hitting home runs in the World Series that we never seen anything like that before. And yet there's still kind of a. Not a yawn. But it's like, why aren't we going ballistic? We don't go ballistic anymore for stuff.

[Anthony]

Do you think it's like what happened to the dunk contest to a point where nobody wants to be in it because it's all been done? What am I going to do? Like, but.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But that's the thing.

[Anthony]

It's where we've seen. It's like you've seen it all. There's nothing.

[Brian Rosenberg]

There was. I think it was your text because I was on the road. I think I was in. I was in Colorado with the Devils trying to remember the timeline where Ohtani. Ohtani pitched and won a game. And then he. No, he had the monster game, the monster game at bat and then he pitched the next game and he went like six innings and he gave up three runs.

[Anthony]

Right?

[Brian Rosenberg]

And the feeling was like, yep. And I'm like, why? He just had a monster game at bat and then he ended up pitching like a quality start in the World Series. And our first reaction is it just didn't. We've never seen that before in any sport. Like the equivalent I gave when it would. Because we were on the road. And I remember Sheldon Keefe was like, tell me about this Ohtani. Like, what is it like? I'd be like, it'd be like, Jack Hughes scores three goals in game four of the Stanley Cup Final and then he is in net for game five.

[Anthony]

Right?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Like, it's at that level Right. But yet the Ohtani. Because we're so. Because we're so numb to it. I don't think it got the dues.

[Dave]

It should have.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Because we're like, eh. Yeah. I wish I'd go back to. I think it was you, Peter. I was like, yeah, he kind of, you know, pitched a dud. I was like. Just the fact that he pitched okay.

[Dave]

It was okay. He was fine. He got them to where they needed to get to.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But that's still nothing you've ever seen in your life.

[Dave]

I know.

[Brian Rosenberg]

And yet we're like, from one night.

[Anthony]

To the other, you mean. Yes.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Oh, my God. Jordan dunked from the foul line. It's all anybody could talk about for, like, a solid year. Meanwhile, a guy hit three home runs in a World Series game and then pitches the next game is like. He pitched, but he only went six innings. He did okay. No, he did something you've never seen in your life. And yet you're like. Because that's how much we've seen if you're a certain age.

[Dave]

So who was the last one? Who is the last athlete that completely captivated everyone? Is it Brady?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Did Brady captivate from a winning standpoint, but not from a watch, but not from like a. I guess because he was doing an older age. How about Mahomes?

[Dave]

Mahomes.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But that's winning. We've seen guys wins.

[Dave]

Play wise, he's Steph. So you think Steph over Mahomes? Because I think Steph is pretty close.

[Anthony]

As good as Mahomes is Steph. Until 2022 to finally get an MVP in the finals.

[Dave]

That's true, too. It's not like he dominated.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Brady dominated because of all the Super Bowls he won and. But he's the only one we could actually think is the greatest quarterback of all time. I mean, nobody's gonna say, Patrick, what.

[Anthony]

You'Re talking about is he's close. Here's what you're asking. Who's the last athlete to give us a show we can't ever forget?

[Dave]

Right?

[Anthony]

I mean, a show.

[Dave]

And it's like, what? It's consistent. It's not like one season.

[Anthony]

Well, if it's in the playoffs, if it's a series, it's the whole. Like, it's the whole championship.

[Dave]

No, but I mean, like, they. They. They became. Just Must see all the time. Like, that's what Jordan was. It was.

[Anthony]

He literally was.

[Dave]

That's what.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But like. But even then, when it was over a decade, we have a chance to see it, Tiger. When Jordan was maybe It's Tiger. What was it? 90. What year was it when they won the 71 games? Was it 92? The Bulls, they're big.

[Anthony]

Their best 72 win. 96.

[Brian Rosenberg]

96. Okay, so it's 1996. That's 30 years ago.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

So when Jordan came to the Garden or came to the metal land.

[Anthony]

96, 97.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You had to go see it. I couldn't watch. I was lucky enough. I worked at Sports Phone, we had the satellite. But you'd see a couple of games on NBC, maybe espn, have a game. You couldn't watch it like it is now. If there is a great player. I literally can watch every bat at bat for Ohtani if I wanted to.

[Anthony]

Mike Greenberg covered that team.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Anthony]

And he talks about how he traveled. Yeah, he was with them and he said it's the most incredible experience he's ever had.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But when we're sitting here in New York City to city where you're living in the Tri State area, when Jordan's going off, you didn't get to see him every night. You saw the highlights. You saw. You didn't get to see him every night. You know, but now if somebody's going off, I can watch every game if I want.

[Dave]

So no kid's going to ever get to have that level. You think again.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Well, will there ever be. Here's what I. Here's the question, because I can ask my kids, is there anybody where you like. I have to see him live. I have to say that I saw him play. Like, I had to see Jordan. I remember my brother had partial season tickets to the Nets. It was the night that Rodman headbutted the official. But I had to go because I wanted to at least say I was in the. I saw.

[Anthony]

Yeah, Jordan.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I want to be able to tell my kids I saw Jordan. I saw.

[Anthony]

I can tell you it's wembanyama.

[Dave]

You think it could be?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Not yet, but not yet, maybe.

[Anthony]

No, no, no.

[Dave]

It's gonna happen.

[Anthony]

I'm telling you. Like, I had the. Again, I got the opportunity to call the game.

[Brian Rosenberg]

One of the games I called was.

[Anthony]

Him too, sitting courtside in San Antonio. And that game was like a 138, 135 kind of game. He got knocked out of the game, but it was an up and down wild game.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah, but.

[Anthony]

And he just watching him move, he.

[Dave]

Does look like no one you've ever seen before.

[Anthony]

There's just something about like, I. And then I'm watching, you know, an all Star. And that first game, like he was Bringing. He was. And I'm. It. It's just. It doesn't hit the same as if you watch him in person and you're like, you got to see this guy.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But I'm not just talking about. Because you're a basketball player.

[Anthony]

He's not there yet.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Listen. I'm a hockey guy. I listen. Connor McDavid is one of the greatest players I've ever seen.

[Anthony]

He's another.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But he's.

[Anthony]

But he's not.

[Brian Rosenberg]

He hasn't the magnetism there.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Anthony]

He doesn't have the magnetism where I need.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Like when I was doing the games, when Michael was doing the shows in the trailer and I had to go to the trailer. Jeter's last season. I made sure there was one game that I stayed. So like to see Jeter for the last time. Like, I. I wanted that just for me.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You know. So it was a game against the Royals. It was like in September, early September wasn't his last game. But just to say I saw him. Is there ever going to be. I think we saw it with LeBron. How much they're paying, like. But once LeBron's gone, I. Like you said Wemby. I think for an NBA file, a guy that really love.

[Anthony]

But at some point he will. I'm not.

[Dave]

I think he could.

[Anthony]

I think he.

[Dave]

But he could, but not there yet.

[Anthony]

He's incredibly compelling physically. Then he's got a magnetism about him. See, that's. McDavid is missing that because he. When you watch him, I mean, he's insane, but he doesn't have a showmanship or magnetism about him. And while, you know, humility is something we all respect, there is something to be said about those players who don't need.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Sometimes. Gretzky didn't have a ton of personality, but he was just off the charts. You had to see him.

[Anthony]

But when he played, there was.

[Dave]

So the play was the mag.

[Anthony]

He had the shirt, the jersey tucked in. He had the whole look about him. There was some silver stick that he had.

[Dave]

You know. You know what? You know what? You know, I thought had it.

[Brian Rosenberg]

And.

[Anthony]

And.

[Dave]

And you're going to remember that I thought this. And you may disagree, but in the moment, I thought it's where we were going.

[Anthony]

Who's that?

[Dave]

I thought Zion was going there.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Senior year of Zion. I thought this just must see tv.

[Anthony]

Like he flies.

[Dave]

He's different.

[Brian Rosenberg]

He.

[Dave]

He looks. His body type is different. Everything about him is different.

[Anthony]

He assaulted the room and then.

[Dave]

And then it just.

[Anthony]

And then you know what happened?

[Dave]

He assaulted his, his legs got assaulted and it just didn't work.

[Anthony]

He. He. It. No, it, it just was. It. It all was too easy. And he lost. He'd never had the killer. And that's again, why mj, why Kobe, why Mahomes, why Wemby? I think one day they never stop. They have something that no matter how much money they have, it means nothing to them because winning and dominating people is the ultimate currency to them. If you want to know what's different about one player to another, it's less skill and more that little whatever that thing is in the DNA. Right.

[Dave]

Well, that's what we're seeing with this version of the NBA.

[Brian Rosenberg]

That's.

[Dave]

We'll get to it. But that's like full circle how we landed here on this all Star weekend that no one's talking about. Unless something ridiculous happens because so few of these guys seem to have the killer piece.

[Anthony]

That's correct. It's not easy to have that.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Dave]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes you just can't take it anymore. This is let's Talk About Tuesday.

[Dave]

With.

[Don Hahn]

Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Brian Rosenberg]

That's right, talk about it Tuesday. Get it out of your system and I think we can all collectively get on board with this particular Mark Cuban.

[Anthony]

But we need to get. I mean, the first words of a tweet that said, why the NBA should embrace tanking. And then he turns it into having nothing to do with tanking, but saying, focus more on making tickets more available, affordable. Which, of course, yes, is like, that's Captain Obvious stuff, but that's apples and oranges. No one has nothing to do with the other. Nothing.

[Dave]

He's. The point he was making is that that should. That's why you're losing fans.

[Anthony]

Oh, no.

[Dave]

Not tanking.

[Anthony]

No.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I mean, this is poorly written. I'm trying to figure out you're not.

[Anthony]

Losing fans because of that.

[Brian Rosenberg]

The NBA is misguided thinking that fans want to see their teams compete every night with a chance to win. It's never been that way.

[Anthony]

Stop right there. Just please read that again, Listen carefully and tell me why that's anywhere close to the target. Say it again.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Say it again. He's been misguided thinking that fans want to see their teams compete every night with a chance to win. They don't. Never been that way.

[Anthony]

It's never been that way. So fans don't care about seeing a team win. What he's not talking about is fans. He's talking about. And this is why Mark, who's a brilliant businessman who thinks only about customers, he's talking about somebody that will just walk in randomly and go, who's that? Right. You see the warriors and go, that number 30. Wow. He really can put the ball in the hoop a lot. Like they don't know. So he's saying those people don't come to see the team win and compete. They don't care. The problem is you're not trying to get a once, a once in a while customer. You're trying to draw someone in, keep them well.

[Brian Rosenberg]

He goes on to say, when I got into the NBA, they thought they were in the basketball business. They aren't. They are in the business of creating an experience for fans. Few can remember the score from the last game they saw or went to. They can't remember the dunks or shots. What they remember is who they were with, their family, friends, a date. That's what makes the experience special. Fans know their teams can't win every game. They know only one team can win a ring. What fans that care about their team's record want is hope. Hope that they will get better and have a chance to compete for the playoffs and then maybe a ring. The one way to get closer to that via the draft and trades and cap room, you have a better chance of improving via all three when you tank. He goes on, but I think he's talking about the fans that I never was able to relate to. Maybe Peter could.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Because I think Peter is a little bit more open minded when it comes to fandom and why I love Knick fans so much. Knick fans don't care about the rest of the league. They care about their team and they care about winning. They want to see their team win. When they go to the game, they remember the score, they remember the dunks. They're passionate about it. But let's also face it, guys, there's a lot of people that are into the NBA that are just into it for all the ancillary stuff, right? That they maybe aren't. They don't have a favorite team, they have a favorite player. But even those people care about the dunks and the score because ultimately or.

[Anthony]

The other team not even trying to win.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Right? Because let's not forget how compromised. All right, you go ahead and tank, but that means you're handing victories to other teams and they can benefit for home court advantage and help them win a championship. It's bogus, man. Listen, when I take my family to a game, yeah, I remember, I remember the games that I took Nancy to or that I took my dad to. I never. The pride I felt where I was able to go out and buy a ticket and take my dad to a Giant game. That was special. But I remember the game. I remember what happened in the game. I remember the moments because that's why you're there, to experience those moments with the family. But too much of it comes to, oh, I'm just schmoozing a client. I'm bringing the kids and they're running around and I'm trying to, you know, have a conversation. It's almost like the game doesn't matter. You're not. You don't care about those people. You should care about the people that care about your sport, that want to cultivate your sport, that want to nurture the sport. That's who you want to care about. Those are the people that are just in it for everything else but the sport are the people that aren't going.

[Dave]

To really help forward your sport.

[Anthony]

They are literally the come and go people that you can't put that much energy into because again, what you're trying to do is draw them in so they're repeat customers. Now, I think this was very political.

[Dave]

What do you mean this was trying to accomplish.

[Anthony]

This was a, I should say it's more political strategy. I don't think it's involving politics, but it's a very typical strategy that a lot of politicians use. Because again, when he owned the Mavericks, they were accused of tanking. They had to pay a fine. So he's going to, like, suggest that, yeah, we did it and we need to do it. But you should worry. See, it's the. It's the distraction. It's the. It's the wag, the dog. Don't worry. Don't look at this. Don't see this as a problem. You know what the bigger problem is? The economy. You know what I mean?

[Dave]

Right.

[Anthony]

So something terrible is happening, but let's not talk about that. I'm going to put this in your face.

[Dave]

You know, there's some people thinking that's going on right now.

[Anthony]

You think so that's what he's doing. It's making the game more affordable so people can come. They don't care about the score. They don't. They just want to have a good time. And that's what we provide. So pay no attention to the fact that we sat five starters in a game that mattered to the other team and other teams, if that team won or lost, pay no mind to that because what we're trying to do is bring you and your good family a great time. See what he's doing. He is normalizing losing on purpose as a business strategy. That's what he's trying to do. And I don't like it. Now he has a part 2 tweet saying why it's worse now. And this is, I agree. Complete with everything he said. Number one, college basketball. That's professional basketball, too.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Mm.

[Anthony]

Right. That's, believe it or not, the J2G league. Then there's college basketball, then there's the NBA.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Right.

[Anthony]

And so you're getting players who are paid. You're getting teams that are really good. You're getting a compelling. It's essentially college football, right? How college football has become super compelling because they're big brands who have big TV deals who play each other, and the audience is bigger sometimes than an NBA game. He said that the players are more skilled because this training now has gone all through the roof and in all professional sports. That's true. And the last thing he brings up, which is completely right, is this second apron thing that now is restricting teams so you can no longer build and maintain great teams anymore. You have to make business decisions. If you draft well, you're still penalized. If I have to pay all of my great draft picks, what they're worth on the market. I can't do it because the league won't let me. So he makes a good point all there. I don't like, though, this notion that tanking has been in the league and it's not going anywhere and it's actually a good thing. If there's a fan out there that wants to tell me that they are content with watching their team lose year after year, like some of these teams do, and throw your hands up and say, hey, but you know what? You can go to a Wizards game for $16.

[Dave]

Right. They'll never compete.

[Anthony]

Nobody cares that they're losing. They're just happy because, man, the entertainment's great at that game.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I don't condone it. I hate it. You know how much I hate it. But I kind of understand where a football fan comes from. It's like, because you're guaranteed the top pick.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You know how important a quarterback is. And because it's football, you'll still go to every game. You'll still watch everything. There's only 17 of them.

[Anthony]

Right.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But when you do it in basketball and hockey and in baseball, like, you're just giving up on an entire season of all these games, like, I don't know how you could consider yourself a fan and just give. If you're a Utah Jazz fan, I'm just throwing a whole season away. Listen, maybe because I'm 58 years old, but I don't feel like throwing whole seasons away. Maybe if you're 16, you're like, I'm going to be a fan for the next 60 years. What does one season matter if we can get a great player? But there's so many games. Plus, you're not guaranteed the pick if you end up dead last. You're not guaranteed the first pick.

[Anthony]

Well, you saw Adam Silver has been talking about ways to curb tanking, and there's several things that they're reportedly kicking around as an idea. One of them, which I think is the worst of all, and I hope it never happens. But it's another way to make money, of course, for the NBA is to have a late season tournament among the lottery teams and have them play each other to see who can get the first pick. I don't know about you, but if you were on a team and the lottery coming, let's say, let's say I'm the point guard of the team and we suck, and the best player coming out in the draft is a point guard. You talk about throwing the Game. They already have problems with this. Right. Point shave and everything else. Like I'm the pointer. Oh yeah. I'm going to play my ass off so this guy can come replace me.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Or what do you do if you've got like two or three free agents who know they're gone? Why would I care about you getting the first overall pick? I haven't signed a contract too, you know. But if you abolish the draft, which has also been talking about, I don't know, then it just becomes like the old time teams where the bigger market team bid for play.

[Anthony]

I have been pushing this for years.

[Brian Rosenberg]

What do you do?

[Anthony]

Well, you've seen this in fantasy. This is done. Everybody gets the equal amount of money to spend, right. Maybe more. Maybe the lottery teams get a little bit more than a playoff team.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Right.

[Anthony]

But for the most part it's all equal. The difference is you can spend it any way you want. I'm going to use one. I'll use a crazy $10 million. I can either give all $10 million to the, to one player, okay. And make him say, well I'm gonna take the 10, take all the money I can and go to that place. Or I could say I'm gonna use 7 million on this guy, 3 million on this guy. Maybe there's two guys that want to team up, want to be teammates. I'll give you each five come to come to my team. Right. Like you do it that way. And the, the difference is this. Say two teams want to offer me 10. Now I can decide just like in college, where have a better chance to win, where's a better chance to develop. You know what that puts, puts the onus on the franchise don't suck.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Have a good infrastructure.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I like that.

[Anthony]

Like I understand that. Well, no one will want to go to Milwaukee or no one will want to go to Memphis, would they? If you're a really well run franchise with great facilities and you know you have, we know in Memphis it's a great fan base. It's a loud building. If you have a great coach and a great fan base and a great organization that's run well, why wouldn't someone want to take the 10 million and be the next star in your market?

[Brian Rosenberg]

So all in all, certainly Mark Cuban, that guy. Now you might have heard Tony Clark has resigned. Talk about that guy as the executive of the players association.

[Anthony]

That's.

[Brian Rosenberg]

And many people thought this was tied into the pending work stoppage coming up at the end of the 26 season.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Jeff Passon says the MLB PA executive director Tony Clark resigned after an internal investigation revealed he had an inappropriate relationship with his sister in law who had been hired by the Union in 2023.

[Anthony]

Yikes.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Okay, that's.

[Anthony]

That's sketch.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You're good.

[Dave]

No, I'm just confused.

[Anthony]

What's there to be.

[Brian Rosenberg]

He.

[Dave]

He had. He had an inappropriate relationship with his sister in law.

[Anthony]

In law.

[Dave]

But the sister in law had been hired by the league.

[Brian Rosenberg]

By the union. By the union that he ran. So that there's the impropriety.

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[Dave]

Well, the being a bad guy.

[Anthony]

That's part of it.

[Dave]

Part of it, Part of it.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But worse.

[Dave]

It was business too.

[Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rich Eisen]

What?

[Dave]

Can you imagine the level of mess you are?

[Anthony]

That's how you paid her.

[Dave]

Can you imagine the level of. I mean, assuming that this was like as messy as it sounds. I suppose we don't know everyone's personal business. Maybe him and his wife had already broken up and it's as bad as it is. Maybe it's somehow not as bad as it sounds. But if it's as bad as it sounds.

[Anthony]

Bad business.

[Dave]

You were stepping out on your wife with your sister in law.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Who also worked for the union.

[Anthony]

Yeah. And again. And got her paid through a job that you gave her. Which is.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah. Well, when they throw hired. She didn't work in the union. By saying who had been hired by the union in 2023 suggests that maybe that's why she got the job. Thus the impropriety. So that straightens that out.

[Rich Eisen]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Dave]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You know John Winthrop, our pinhead suit is so great because the program directors part of his job is to by the way, in the Barrett, he finished 20th in the major markets which is great. Being in the top 20 in the world be way higher program directors in major markets from Barrett.

[Dave]

Oh, that's. That's a bad job. But I love 20 who's voting on this.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But hey, he made it to the top 20. But it should have been higher. But because we're talking about Tony Clark and with his sister in law. Now sister in law could be two people.

[Dave]

Do we know which it is here?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Don't know. All we know is it's sister in law. So it could be his wife's sister or it could be his brother's wife. We don't know which one. And not that it matters, he cheated and he deserves to be forced to resign. But just for sake of conversation, which would be worse if you had an affair with your wife's sister or your brother's wife? I think your brother's wife. Because now you've hurt two people, right? Your wife is disgusted you cheated on her and she'll probably divorce you. And now you've lost your relationship with your brother. Whereas if it's just your wife's sister, she may feel more hurt because it was a member of her family, but it's only the one person. You're divorced, and, you know, your mom could be upset with you, but she might find a way to forgive you. Rest of your family say, oh, you know, that was not the right thing to do. But if you break up two marriages, yours and your brother's, the now your mom is even more mad about it. Right. And your parents are even more mad about it because you broke up too. Married. I think it's way worse if it's your brother's wife. More so than your sister's sister. Just so your wife's sister.

[Anthony]

The Internet is having this same debate.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Of course. Of course.

[Anthony]

Because, you know, this is on Reddit, this is on Facebook. Everybody's asking the same question.

[Dave]

What's the worst one?

[Anthony]

It's it. Which one is it? Because, you know, like, it's almost like making a case for one over the other.

[Dave]

Here's the thing. What it's really about is, is which pain do you prioritize? Because if. If it's the. If it's your wife's feelings that you're thinking. Thinking about, I'm in. Nothing is going to be worse than her sister.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Right.

[Dave]

That is as bad as it could.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Be because now she's done with her.

[Dave]

Sister, or at least maybe not forever, but. But at least in the moment, you've torn apart, too.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I just. I'm just. Because Nancy has a sister and my brother's married. So I. I just know that if. That if I cheated on Nancy with Susan, she'd be done with me and Susan. Because Nancy's scorched earth.

[Dave]

Yeah, I could, I can gather that.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Well, I mean, I think that's the normal reaction for most people.

[Dave]

It's the reaction.

[Anthony]

Yeah. I wouldn't imagine any other reaction.

[Dave]

No, I mean, not everybody. Some people are more willing to move on than others, but for this one, I think either way, you know what.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You know what they call those people? People with less options.

[Anthony]

No.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I mean, let's see if you're that forgiving, you know.

[Dave]

Well, for this, maybe you're. This in particular is a different level than you went on a business trip and something happened. This is as bad as it gets.

[Brian Rosenberg]

So.

[Anthony]

So what would.

[Dave]

So you're telling me you don't think. For example. I guess it's tough, though, because you're saying Nancy would be scorched earth either way?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yeah, she's. She's divorcing me either way. If I cheated on her with anybody, I think she'd be Done.

[Anthony]

Naturally.

[Dave]

But. But you. You don't think you'd have a better chance of making the comeback if it was your brother's wife versus her own sister?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yes, I would. But now on top of that, maybe I save the marriage because it's not her sister.

[Dave]

But you've lost your brother.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But I've lost my brother. Yeah. Either way, that's still worse. And again, your parents. My father would just. Would beat me with a baseball bat if I did this. Right. But the parents are going to be way more disgusted that you broke up your brother's marriage because your parents may not have any relationship with your wife's sister. Yeah, they see each other here and there, but that's not somebody that always comes to Thanksgiving. Right. But Thanksgiving at the Lagrecas. My brother's gonna bring his wife Thanksgiving at the Lagreca's. Susan's not necessarily coming. She might, but she might, you know, she might be married and be with his family. You know, like.

[Anthony]

So important, important question.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Anthony]

Do we know if they were separated?

[Dave]

We don't. That. That's what.

[Anthony]

We don't know anything because we're living together. But, you know, hush, hush. You know, because he's a public figure. We don't say anything. But, you know, you, you stay living here, I'm gonna live here, work, whatever.

[Dave]

It's still weird.

[Anthony]

And she's. Now we're working closely together and maybe sister's just like, yeah, my sister was tough to deal with. I totally understand. Right. Like that kind of thing. And then something happened.

[Rich Eisen]

We don't.

[Anthony]

We don't know these.

[Dave]

There are a lot of variables that could make it way more relatable than any of us imagine. But on paper, without knowing those variables. Paper.

[Anthony]

Which is worse?

[Brian Rosenberg]

I think with the brother. Sister. I think it's worse because at the end of the day, you're breaking up two marriages.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Anthony]

But potential and a family to family.

[Brian Rosenberg]

And a family.

[Dave]

I just. I just can't help but get past the level of damage you're doing to the wife. I'm not focusing on the brother part because I feel like in some cases you'd be able to recover your brother relationship.

[Anthony]

But the damage to the wife is happening either way. No, no.

[Dave]

Her sister' a different level. Yeah, that's such an icon level.

[Anthony]

But it's bringing.

[Dave]

I'd almost rather deal with the drama of my stuff with my own brother.

[Anthony]

What?

[Dave]

I'd almost. No, I'd rather deal with family.

[Anthony]

What could completely, like, excommunicate you.

[Dave]

But either way, that could Happen my.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Brother could forgive me just as easily because of we're blood.

[Dave]

Right.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You know, I just think at the end of the day, flip it.

[Anthony]

No, there's no chance.

[Rich Eisen]

No.

[Anthony]

So you think your brother would be like, you know what? Don't get it. But I guess she's hot.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But could there be a raging Bull moment that like 10 years later we run into each other somewhere and we can kind of like hug and maybe rebuild something that he remarried and there could be a world in which there could be. By the way, again, you're blocked. By the way, all this. He's my only brother.

[Dave]

For the record, everything we're saying here has happened. And including. Including the full blown reconciliation with people at holidays together. It's all happening.

[Brian Rosenberg]

And listen, as far as Tony Clark is concerned, he had to resign because he put her on the payroll.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Brian Rosenberg]

That's probably what did it.

[Dave]

We don't know. We need more of the order here. When did she get on the payroll? When did the relationship start?

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Was he with his wife?

[Brian Rosenberg]

Is.

[Dave]

There's so much that could change this.

[Anthony]

Where's Don Van Nada? We need him on.

[Dave]

Yeah, we need Don Van Nada.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I don't think Tony Clark is Don Van Nada level. No offense to Tony Clark. No offense to the player.

[Anthony]

You don't think he cares enough to die.

[Brian Rosenberg]

You start getting into union heads that have been retired for 15 years. I think. I think he's got better.

[Dave]

Fair point. But what a dramatic and amazing this is.

[Anthony]

Passing's on the byline with Don Van Naata.

[Brian Rosenberg]

By the way.

[Anthony]

I told you. Told you.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Passing knows all this stuff. But he's above. He's above. You know.

[Anthony]

Well, he doesn't. He does. He can't. He can't drag himself in these mud.

[Brian Rosenberg]

He's got words. But we can. We can because you know, it's interesting conversation. That was all started by our boss. So we know we're not taking it.

[Dave]

I want to hear. I want to now hear from listeners.

[Brian Rosenberg]

We're not in trouble.

[Dave]

I just want to hear from listeners now.

[Anthony]

All right.

[Dave]

Who have experienced both sides of this.

[Anthony]

Oh my God.

[Dave]

Yeah, both.

[Brian Rosenberg]

I'm sorry. You're a bad.

[Anthony]

It is a talk about a Tuesday.

[Dave]

No, it is. It is.

[Anthony]

Can you would be something when I.

[Dave]

Hear about stuff like this. And again, we're making huge assumptions. Because it could be a little less dramatic than it sounds.

[Anthony]

Yep.

[Dave]

Not much less because.

[Brian Rosenberg]

No, because even if they separated.

[Dave]

Yeah, but even still could have been.

[Brian Rosenberg]

A step sister even.

[Dave]

Guys, there's no come on, but. So it's all bad.

[Anthony]

Half sister. Really.

[Dave]

I just have to know, like, listen, sex is great.

[Brian Rosenberg]

We.

[Dave]

I'm one of the biggest fans of refinement. Been doing a long time proud. Proud of how long I've been with others, too, and even including others at times. But, like, I'm amazed when adults do things that are this dumb. Like, this much embarrassment.

[Anthony]

It's defeated.

[Dave]

It's.

[Brian Rosenberg]

But how.

[Dave]

Like, I mean, listen, we've all done dumb things.

[Anthony]

See what happens.

[Dave]

This level of dumb. No, no, this.

[Anthony]

Oh, that.

[Dave]

You mean.

[Anthony]

Yeah, doing.

[Dave]

I mean, this level.

[Anthony]

You remember the Eme Udoka thing?

[Dave]

Yeah, but I never. We never knew what it was. We never had the full answer.

[Anthony]

You probably know we have some idea. But it. That's one of those where you're like, you had reached a height.

[Dave]

Oh, my.

[Brian Rosenberg]

It was.

[Anthony]

You can't even describe where you started.

[Dave]

To where you are. Plus, your girl's a celebrity and you lost all that.

[Anthony]

Right. And you had, like, one of the.

[Dave]

Baddest in the game and all of it was that you still couldn't resist. Still, like, there. I will say there is. There's part of the. Like, some people's brains never gets to the next level of where they go.

[Anthony]

It's the conquer complex.

[Dave]

Yeah, I guess so. And they don't realize that it's never going away.

[Jacob]

No.

[Dave]

There's no amount. And there's been.

[Brian Rosenberg]

It's been a day.

[Dave]

So far.

[Anthony]

This has been a day.

[Brian Rosenberg]

This has been a day.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Anthony]

I don't want to know how sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers from 30 for 30 podcasts.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Did you say someone got shot? Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami.

[Dave]

Gunned down the key to this case.

[Anthony]

It's Brian.

[Rich Eisen]

An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing with somebody. This might be a hit. You want the truth? They just want a conviction.

[Brian Rosenberg]

Being placed under arrest. We had a killer amongst us.

[Rich Eisen]

Murder at the U.

[Dave]

Listen now.