Hour 2: Mike Greenberg joins the show

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Mike Greenberg Joins the Show

Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Don La Greca
Special Guest: Mike Greenberg

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Episode Overview

This lively episode features ESPN’s Mike Greenberg joining Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, and Don La Greca for a wide-ranging discussion centered on Greenberg’s new book “Got Your Legends,” sports Mount Rushmore debates, the latest New York Giants quarterback drama, and spirited banter about New York sports media and broadcasting. The hour is packed with sharp sports analysis, friendly ribbing, and engaging nostalgia, with Greenberg’s signature blend of preparation and humor leading the way.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Mike Greenberg’s “Got Your Legends” Book & the Mount Rushmore of Sports Franchises

[02:45–13:15]

• Book Premise: Greenberg and “Hembo” have ranked all 124 teams in NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL based on data, with a “Mount Rushmore” (top 4 legends) picked for each franchise.

  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 03:19): “We take all 124 teams… and we rank them from 1 to 124, based on all of the significant data… The only opinion is to break ties. We use historical significance and relevancy.”

• Top Tier Teams: Yankees finished #1; Celtics #2, breaking a tie with the Lakers after the Celtics' 18th title.

  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 04:39): “The Celtics are number two… Breaking the tie between the Celtics and Lakers was hard. When the Celtics won their 18th, it broke the tie.”

• Mount Rushmore Debates:

  • Yankees: Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle (leaving off Rivera, Jeter, Berra, Steinbrenner)
  • Celtics: Bird, Auerbach, Russell, Havlicek — Greenberg argues Havlicek is “the most overlooked immortal in basketball.”
    • Memorable Stat (05:48): “There are two players in NBA history who scored 26,000 points, 8,000 rebounds, and 6,000 assists: John Havlicek…and LeBron James. That’s it.”
  • Knicks: Willis Reed, Walt “Clyde” Frazier, Patrick Ewing, Marv Albert (including legendary broadcasters in the mix)
    • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 10:44): “For as long as I live, basketball will sound like Marv Albert’s voice.”
  • Dodgers/Dodgers Broadcasters: Vin Scully included—one of just three broadcasters featured in the book (others: Marv Albert, Harry Caray)
  • Giants: Lawrence Taylor, Frank Gifford, Eli Manning, Michael Strahan
  • Mets: Tom Seaver, Doc Gooden, Mike Piazza, Keith Hernandez (broadcasting/leadership impact)
  • Redskins: Sammy Baugh, Joe Gibbs, Darrell Green, Jack Kent Cooke (owner credited with revolutionary influence)
  • Devils: Brodeur, Stevens, Lamoriello (executive), Elias

• Book as a Living Document: Greenberg emphasizes the book is a “living document”—fates can change with new legends emerging.

  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 07:59): “If Aaron Judge wins three World Series, we could be having an entirely different conversation… the book is meant to be a living document."

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2. Mount Rushmore “Snubs,” Debatable Numbers, and Listener Grievances

[27:30–32:07]

• Listener Complaint: Fans upset Elway was assigned #7 over Mickey Mantle in Greenberg's previous book; Greenberg explains tough choices considering representation and overlaps.
  • Quote (Mike Greenberg, 29:14): “It felt like we needed to make a tough call somewhere... John Elway, if you look at the history of the Broncos franchise, is maybe the most beloved athlete in any city.”
• Other Controversies:
  • Sidney Crosby not getting #87 over Gronk (“Gronk is the best tight end ever, but Crosby is a top 10 all-time NHLer”—debates over positional dominance and cultural impact)
  • On “the beauty of these books”: “That’s why we do them—so people argue and debate” (Peter Rosenberg, 32:05)

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3. Giants Quarterback Situation: Jackson Dart vs. Russell Wilson

[13:32–24:32], [38:14–44:05]

• Greenberg’s Take: It’s rarely about a rookie being “ready”—often about organizational impatience or locker room pressure.
  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 13:42): “There are four reasons [a QB switch] might happen. To me, the least likely is: ‘He is ready.’ Then, is it impatience from the fan base, the owner, or the locker room?”
• Locker Room Dynamics: Greenberg details why keeping a struggling veteran QBin sends the wrong message to players fighting for their careers.
  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 14:11): “It would’ve been very tough for Daboll to walk in and tell them, ‘I still believe this guy gives us the best chance to win.’”
• Hamster Wheel Analogy: Warns against mismatched coach-QB timelines ("hamster wheel"—see the Bears) and the dangers of fan/owner pressure dictating football moves.
  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 15:51): “[It] is a hamster wheel move... that’s a terrible express train to sucking.”
• Decision Logic: Discussion on why Jameis Winston was not chosen, why Dart is being thrown in now, and why the offense has become predictable.
  • On play-calling vanilla/offense limitations: “Maybe we get creative with Dart’s skillset... this season was always going to be about seeing if we have a quarterback and a wide receiver you can build around.” (Peter Rosenberg, 22:29–23:33)
• What Determines Dabol’s Fate: Hosts debate—winning can’t be the metric, so what does job security require?
  • Quote (Alan Hahn, 23:44): “You can’t expect wins. So what is it... if it’s not having more points than the other team at the end of the game, what is that?”

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4. New York Jets, Coaching, and Organizational “Performances”

[47:38–52:44]

• Jets Coaching Carousel: The conversation pivots to the recurring theme of Jets coaches, leadership, and the “hope cycle.”
  • Quote (Alan Hahn, 48:13): “It’s the four letter word, Hope. It is Lucy pulling the football, every time you think it’s going to work out...”
• Aaron Glenn Critique: Greenberg and the crew are skeptical about “moral victory” talk and calls for true results on the field.
  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 49:14): “I could live without being told we’re not the same old Jets. Because the reality is, this is exactly what the Jets have always been.”
  • Quote (Mike Greenberg, 52:17): “Don’t come in…let’s see wins. It’s performative… We put so much stock in the appearance of being in control…We’re gonna find out when you coach and play.”
• Discipline & Identity: Penalties and discipline still lacking—“all gas, no brake” rhetoric needs to show up in results.

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5. Sports Radio, Media Nostalgia, and Off-Air Banter

[46:00–47:38], [52:44–56:33]

• Radio vs. TV: Greenberg reflects on his joy doing radio, the unique rhythm, and life-balance perks (morning radio allowed more family time).
  • Quote (Mike Greenberg, 46:59): “It was a magical thing, a miracle that happened in my life, what that show became... I picked my kids up at school literally every day until they stopped wanting me to. I wouldn’t trade that part for all the sleep in the world.”
• Up-Nostril Camera Angles & FaceTiming: Lighthearted complaints about remote-work camera angles, generational FaceTime habits, and “big name drops” (Tyrese Haliburton FaceTiming Rosenberg).
  • Quote (Peter Rosenberg, 54:17): “My kids make fun of me because... when I FaceTime, I put the phone right up to me. They’re looking directly into my tonsils.”
  • Quote (Don La Greca, 55:04): “Tyrese Haliburton facetimes me blind on Friday to ask me what I’m wearing. It’s because he’s 25 years old. They just blind FaceTime people, these kids.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Havlicek’s Forgotten Greatness:
  • “There are two players in NBA history who scored 26,000 points, 8,000 rebounds, and 6,000 assists: John Havlicek…and LeBron James. That’s it.” (Peter Rosenberg, 05:48)
• Greenberg on Book Debates:
  • “The book is meant to be a living document… If Aaron Judge wins three World Series, we could be having an entirely different conversation.” (Peter Rosenberg, 07:59)
• Mount Rushmore Snub Defense:
  • “John Elway…is maybe the most beloved athlete in any city and the most significant athlete to any city in any sport.” (Mike Greenberg, 29:14)
• On Vanilla Giants Offense:
  • “This season was never going to be about the Giants making a playoff run… The season was going to be about…a quarterback and a wide receiver combination that could be really special.” (Peter Rosenberg, 23:33)
• Jets Fan Eternal Struggle:
  • “It is Lucy pulling the football; every time you think it’s going to work out, it always pulls the football away every single time.” (Alan Hahn, 48:13)
• On Coaching Appearances vs. Results:
  • “If you’ve got to tell us beforehand, then I’m gonna be a little dubious about it.” (Mike Greenberg, 52:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|------------| | Greenberg on “Got Your Legends” Mount Rushmore | 02:45–13:15| | Knicks/Celtics/Yankees Mount Rushmore Debates | 04:31–12:40| | Listener Book Grievances, Numbers Debates | 27:30–32:07| | Giants QB Change Analysis (Dart vs. Wilson) | 13:32–24:32, 38:14–44:05| | Jets Coaching/Identity Rant | 47:38–52:44| | Sports Radio Nostalgia/FaceTime Banter | 46:00–47:38, 52:44–56:33|

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Conclusion

This episode showcases the best of New York sports talk: smart, deeply informed debates spiced with humor, personality, and decades of shared history. From the emotional weight of a team’s Mount Rushmore to the nitty-gritty of quarterback controversies and the quirks of modern sports media, it’s a master class in passionate, accessible, and engaging sports radio—anchored by Mike Greenberg’s thoughtful perspective and the chemistry of seasoned hosts.

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Transcript

[Alan Hahn]

I'm NFL linebacker TJ Watt and this is my personal best. YPB by Abercrombie is the activewear I'm always wearing. That's why I reached out to co design their latest drop. I worked with designers to create high performance activewear that holds up to my toughest workouts. Shop YPB by Abercrombie in store, online, and in the app, because your personal best is greater than any. This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Mike Greenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Alan Hahn]

Almost should have Grady just take this out at this point. But we got the. We got the theme music going, as you remember, of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Back in better than ever greeting with you here on ESPN Radio New York, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Delighted to be here. Where the hell is Hembo?

[Alan Hahn]

He just flew.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't see Golic. I don't know what that hell I'm doing in here. I don't know how to do this.

[Alan Hahn]

It's like riding a bike though, right? Like, you hear the music, it almost like you just know exactly where to go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This was the theme that we did for Greeny for, however, four years that we did that radio show. Yes. It is great to be back. It is great to see you guys. It's great to be a block away. This is. Yeah, this is a delight. Yeah. And these are. It's the first time I've been in these studios. It's beautiful.

[Don La Greca]

Pretty nice, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, really nice.

[Alan Hahn]

Although we do have a problem with the gray walls, considering that for Don and I, gray and then our hair, it just sort of, we, you know, we kind of blend in. It's muted. Way too muted.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's not a problem for Peter. I see.

[Don La Greca]

No, it's not. You know what the comment I get is? Another comment I get is. And I got it again yesterday in the chat. Peter, enough with the beard dye. It's. It's unbecoming. I don't have any beard dye.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Don La Greca]

Now I do.

[Alan Hahn]

No Beijing.

[Don La Greca]

When I do like tv, I will go over it and make sure in case. But I don't right now. Does this look weird?

[Alan Hahn]

No, it does not look weird.

[Don La Greca]

They said it looks unnatural, but it is natural. For God's sake.

[Alan Hahn]

The man at least has hair somewhere else.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. And I won't show you my back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's growing in all the wrong places.

[Don La Greca]

That's exactly how it goes greening at this stage of life.

[Alan Hahn]

Don legreco will be joining us at some point, on his way to the Rock, you know, he's calling Devil's game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, it's great. I'm so happy for him. I mean, I've known Don. Of all the people at ESPN New York, I've known Don the longest. He started right when we came on in New York, which was in the fall of 2001, which obviously was a terrible time here for entirely other reasons, of course. But Don and I became good friends from the very beginning. And we are basically the same age. We grew up sort of around the same. We had a lot of similarities. Both of us fell in love with our teams because of our dad and everything. So I love Don. I'm sorry that he's not here, but I know hockey is his passion. I'm thrilled that he is there. We could have him guess the Devils that are on the list. Oh, I like Devils and Rangers.

[Don La Greca]

Okay, so Rook, want to start with.

[Alan Hahn]

Explain. I do want to just let everybody see that Mike Greenberg has another book out. He and Himbo put this one together. Got your legends. This again, one of those that you pull it out any. Any chapter you open up, instant debate comes up. Just like your first book with the numbers. Because what. From what I understand, this is basically the Mount Rushmore of all your franchises.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct. Every franchise in sports. So. So here's what it is.

[Alan Hahn]

Which means somebody's leaving being left off a list that's going to set people off.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I'll start with this. All right, So, I mean, I wanted, I assume you, your listeners, everyone wants to talk about Jackson Dart today, and I certainly have a lot of thoughts on that.

[Alan Hahn]

We're getting there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The idea of the book is pretty simple. We take all 124 teams in the four sports in the NFL, the NHL, the Major League Baseball and NBA, and we rank them from 1 to 124 based on every. All of the significant data. This is all Himbo's research. And, you know, you work with him. He's the best in the business. So it's not. There's no opinion involved in that. It is. It is ranking them based upon what they have accomplished. The only place that we put an opinion is to break ties. We will use historical significance and relevancy and things like that.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Should be no surprise the Yankees are number one out of the 124. Then for every franchise, from the best to the worst and everyone in between, we choose their Mount Rushmore. We choose the four legends, the four faces of the franchise, league, coaches and players. It can include coaches, owners, broadcasters, and in a very select few cases, there are broadcasters. Michael K. Obviously not Michael. Michael did not make it, but Marv Albert does. Is included in the book. Vin Scully is included in the book. Harry Carey and a few others. But anyway, to answer your question, the first four people that didn't make the Yankees, Matt Rushmore, would probably have been the best Mount Rushmore of almost any other franchise.

[Don La Greca]

I almost don't want to hear any because I'm so curious about all of them. Okay, but before even that, are the Celtics number two.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Celtics are number two. So here's what we do.

[Don La Greca]

Atta boy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Atta way.

[Don La Greca]

Hembo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What is very difficult to do is to compare the Canadiens to the Lakers. So we have everything in tiers. So the first tier is the first four. So the number one basketball, football, hockey and baseball team are on the first tier. The second tier has eight teams, so it's two from each of the sports. The third tier has four teams from each of the sports. So 16. So breaking the tie between the Celtics and the Lakers was hard. And I can tell you that it was while we were writing the book that the Celtics won their 18th championship, breaking the tie with the Lakers for the most part.

[Alan Hahn]

So they did it for you. Basically.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was the way that we ultimately wound up breaking that. Splitting those hairs. I think the Laker route, Rushmore is actually slightly better. Better than the Celtic Mount Rushmore. Although you're. You're, you know, pulling hairs there. Splitting hair.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's more modern, though, right? Would you say more modern?

[Don La Greca]

Let me guess my. Let me guess my Celtics on Rushmore.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Don La Greca]

Bird, Auerbach, Russell. The question is four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Koozie, not koozie.

[Don La Greca]

Have havoc.

[Peter Rosenberg]

John Havlicek. John Havlic, who is the most overlooked immortal of all time. And we wrote this when we did the book about numbers. But let me find the stat because I think it is an incredible statistic. John Havlicek scored more points in a Celtic uniform than Russell or Bird or any other Celtic. At the time he retired, he was third in history in scoring and sixth in assists. And to this day, this is my favorite stat. There are two players in NBA history who scored 26,000 points, 8,000 rebounds, and 6,000 assists. John Havlicek is one. LeBron James is the other. That's it. Havlicek is the most forgotten, the most forgotten immortal in basketball.

[Alan Hahn]

Can I give you another one?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Yogi Berra. So Yogi, one of the most overlooked immortals in sports history.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the Yankee. The Mount Rushmore of Yankees who didn't make it.

[Don La Greca]

Well, let's start with did. Let's start with did. Okay, well, your did is Ruth.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ruth.

[Alan Hahn]

Garrick.

[Don La Greca]

Garrick.

[Alan Hahn]

DiMaggio.

[Peter Rosenberg]

DiMaggio.

[Don La Greca]

Mantle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct. That's it. That's the four. That means that Mariano Rivera, who was the only player ever to be unanimously selected for the hall of Fame. Yogi Berra, who won more World Series than any other player that ever lived. Derek Jeter, who was the face of the sport for 20 years. And George Steinbrenner, who was among the most significant, important, notorious owners in French and sports history. Those four don't make the list, which was not a hard decision because I think the four who made it speak for themselves. But those four would have been a better Mount Rushmore than almost any other franchise has.

[Alan Hahn]

How close? Because we make this argument based on numbers. How close is Judge? Because he doesn't have a ring, but he might be the greatest right hand hitter in the history of the sport.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Statistically, he's the best right handed hitter in 80 years. He hasn't won any championships yet. So what I write at the end of the book is the way these books work is Hembo does all the research. It's the best. And then I write it, put your.

[Don La Greca]

Name on it, then you come do the promo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Stop it. That's pretty much it. And then I get the majority of.

[Alan Hahn]

The work split and the pay split.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But anyway, I write at the end that the book is meant to be a living document. Which is to say, if we had done it 20 years ago, a lot of things would be different. And if we go back and revise it 20 years from now, things could change. If Aaron Judge wins three World Series, we could be having an entirely different conversation. But right now you cannot bump who. Whether you'd be bumping DiMaggio or Mantle is an argument you can have, but you cannot bump either of those guys if you have not won a single championship on a franchise that has won 27 World Series. So Judge, I think is still a reasonable distance.

[Don La Greca]

I have one more. One more. Don will have some too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And we will talk all the other sports, but I'm excited about this. I got to guess my Redskin, Mount Rushmore. That one. I'm sure you'll have to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was just on in D.C. so I really.

[Don La Greca]

So my, my, my guess, My guess would be Sammy Ball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

Joe Gibbs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

John Riggins.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not Riggins. That was a tough one, but it's a hard one to get.

[Don La Greca]

Well, Art Monk is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it's not art Monk. So we went with it. So it's not art Monk. There's another player who is a contemporary of monk who played 20 years.

[Don La Greca]

Darryl Green.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Darryl Green.

[Don La Greca]

Sorry, sorry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you went Green. And then the fourth one is Jack Kent Cook. Which Jack Kent Cook? Michael Wilbon wrote. I was doing. We did so much research. Jack. Michael Wilbon, whose opinion on all of sports worship, particularly on D.C. wrote, Jack Kent Cook is the greatest owner in the history of sports. Not just football, but sports. And if you look into all of the ways that he revolutionized pro football during his ownership tenure, before there was Bob Kraft, before there was Cherry Jones, before any of these guys, we felt he belonged on there. Riggins was great, but it was a shorter period of time. Monk was a tough one, but we felt Green was the era.

[Don La Greca]

As great as Monk was, Green is the best who probably ever played the position. Or he's right there in the conversation. So that's solid.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. I'm excited for. So that he got to do that. Then I get to do Knicks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Willis, Clyde. Yes, Ewing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then the fourth one is Marv. So. So we.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I gave a lot of thought to.

[Alan Hahn]

You did say Marv. You gave that away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I gave a lot of thought to that. Marv Albert was the voice of the Knicks from 1967 to 2004. That's insane. All of the greatest moments in that franchise's history were heard through his voice and seen through his ey. And I believe, for me, the next choice on the list, all the greats from the championship teams. So you consider Bradley and you consider Monroe, and you consider even a guy like debusscher. And then Carmelo and Bernard King would be the other ones that you consider. And Bernard King was my favorite player growing up. I've told you this story a million times. My brother and I had a hamster. We named him Bernard. He was the only pet you were allowed to have.

[Alan Hahn]

He lived as long as a career, Basically.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, almost, unfortunately. I remember the day that we came in and found Bernard spread out on the. On the hamster wheel, unfortunately.

[Alan Hahn]

But he had an acl, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was a sad day. And then we got another hamster, and we named it Patrick, because, if you'll remember, King got hurt. And then the Jets. The Jets. The Knicks drafted Ewing. But anyway, so we considered all of those. But when I really stopped to think about it, I think almost anyone. And I said, I got to say this to Marv. When he was retiring, of course, his departure from The Knicks was unceremonious and awful. But his departure from basketball, I think was. Was joyously and appropriately celebr when he retired a few years ago. And I got to say to him, for as long as I live, basketball will sound like your voice. Like it doesn't make any difference. Mike Breen is the best of the best. I love him. And there was a ton of great guys doing it. But if you ask me, what does basketball sound like, I would say it sounds like Marv Albert's voice. And I think anyone who lived in New York, anyone who was a fan of the knicks for really 35 years, that would apply to. And it encompasses basically all of the golden eras of Knicks basketball between what they were in the 70s and then the Riley, you know, Van Gundy teams in the 90s.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And that's. That's what. So I'm guessing. And Vince Scully's on the Dodger list.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He is, yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, there's very. I can't imagine there's a lot of broadcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's three. There's those two. And then Harry Carey. And we seriously considered, like, guys like Ernie Harwell in Detroit and others. I felt when breaking ties, it should. The tie should almost always go to the player. But they were like someone like Vin Scully, I mean, and Vin Scully probably spoke to more sports fans over the course of his lifetime than any other human being that ever lived. He did Dodger. The first Dodger game he did. Jackie Robinson was playing and he was broadcasting games until 10 years ago. So he was an easy choice even for a franchise that had as many great legends as the Dodgers do.

[Alan Hahn]

I just want to let everybody know you are not listening to a podcast of the Mike Greenberg show of. No, he's actually here with us in studio. Don Han Rosenberg on ESPN New York. Don should be joining us momentarily at some point. He's on his way over to the Rock. He's calling tonight's game, preseason game between the Devils and the Islanders. And there's plenty, of course, to get to that. I know Greeny wants to discuss beyond the book. Although, again, got your legends. This is a book that is not only must read, it's when you get to it, you know, either you're going to have an argument, a debate, whatever it is. And that's the fun part of reading these books. Did you have anything? Because I know Greeny wants to get into Jackson Darby.

[Don La Greca]

No, we gotta get into the doctor.

[Alan Hahn]

I want to get into Jackson Darby.

[Don La Greca]

Listen, I just wanted a message for our audience. If they tuned in on YouTube and they're watching the video of Don Hannah Rosenberg. This is not LeBron. You didn't accidentally land on your synagogue's Russia shuttle services. It's just that me and Greeny are both here together. No, I kind of want to guess the Penguins one, but we could do that later. Let's talk.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, let's do. I'm here for an hour. So Jackson Darth then.

[Don La Greca]

So obviously Alan and I have weighed in a lot so far. Your first reaction to the news of Jackson Darth.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I'm really interested in talking this over with Donald Trump. There are three groups of people who could have become impatient and made this happen. Those. Okay, let me reframe that. There were four reasons this might have happened. One of them, and this is, to me, the least likely, is that a decision was made that this is exactly the moment in time in which he is ready. I almost want to discount that as a possibility. I would. So then it becomes a function of the impatience of someone. Is it the impatience of the fan base? Is it the impatience of the owner? Or is it the impatience of the locker room? Two of those three, I think, are inexcusable reasons to make a decision. If you're doing it because of the fans or you're doing it because of the owner, those are terrible reasons to be making a change like this. And up until this morning, I would have said. I would have said it's got to be one of those two. But the guys on get up this morning, so Jeff Saturday, Dominique Foxworth and Jason McCourty, all of whom played, said to me after that series of plays down by the goal line at the end of the Kansas City game where they still had a chance and Russell Wilson threw three balls basically into the seats that there was no way that Brian Daboll could walk into that locker room and tell those players for whom this is their life, this is their career, they're not there to make sure that Jackson Dart is developed in the appropriate way. They're there to try and make sure they still have a job next year. That it would have been very tough for Dabal to walk in there and tell them, I still believe this guy gives us the best chance to win. I get that. And that, I understand, is a different line for a coach to walk. If his locker room is going. If his locker room is basically telling him, whoever his team leaders are, you can't put that guy back out there again, then that's different than the owner being impatient or the fans being impatient. Yes, it's one of those three. I don't know that we'll ever know the truth. He's going. They throw the kid in against a Charger team that has as good a defense as pretty much any in the afc. I would have thought next week against New Orleans would be a little different. Landing spot, maybe they couldn't wait that.

[Alan Hahn]

Long, but we all thought that's that would have been a place to go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In a logical spot one way or the other. Look, it gives you a little juice, a little excitement, but I'm afraid that it is a hamster wheel move. So when here's my issue with the way the Giants handled this. You should never have the most important people in your organization who are your coach, maybe your general manager and your quarterback. They should. In a successful organization, those three will always be married up as far as timeline is concerned. So you cannot have a rookie quarterback whose timeline is we just need to get him ready at whatever pace is best for him. Married to a coach who's going to get fired if you have a bad year. That's the hamster wheel. I talked about hamsters before. That's just when you're running in place and you're running around in a circle and you're never going to get anywhere. The Chicago Bears have been the best or worst illustration of that in sports the last few years. They drafted a quarterback in Justin Fields. They were, excuse me, in Mitch Trubisky. They had a lame duck coach. They fired him after one year. Now Trubisky's playing for another staff. It's not their guy, all that stuff. They draft Justin Fields, out goes Trubisky, in goes Fields. They fire that coach after one year. You stay on a hamster wheel. They don't fire the coach. Last year in Eberfluss, they bring in Caleb Williams. Now he's playing for his second coach in two seasons. So that's a terrible express train to sucking is what that is. And I'm afraid the Giants did that. The reason that I felt I don't call for people's jobs. I don't want anyone to get fired. It's not my place. I'm not sitting here saying you should fire Brian Daboll, but if you're going to keep Brian Daboll, then you cannot tie his long term job stability to how the first six weeks of the next season go. Because his job now has got to be to develop the quarterback. He is credited for having developed Josh Allen in Buffalo. This is what he does. He made Daniel Jones into whatever Jones was that year. And it can't be helping the psyche of the ownership and of the fan base that Daniel Jones and saquon barkley are combined 6, 0. But you can't take that into account. That's not why you go to the rookie. If they went to the rookie because the locker room basically said russell Wilson cannot be our quarterback anymore, and I don't think that's far fetched, then that's a reasonable reason. I think I would ask aloud the question Jameis Winston, is there? Is that not a reasonable option if the kid isn't ready? Now maybe they've answered that by having Dart be the number two each of the first three weeks. So he was always one hit away from if Russell Wilson got knocked out of this game in the first quarter Sunday night, Dart would have been out there anyway.

[Don La Greca]

Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So maybe that was the answer to that question all along. One way or another. I just hope they're not doing it because the fans are impatient or because the owner is impatient, because those are bad reasons to do anything.

[Alan Hahn]

A text I got from somebody in the Giant organization who asked about it was simply this performance wasn't good enough. Bottom of the league in red zone scoring. So it was certainly based on two of the three weeks. It looked horrific.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And the one time it didn't look horrific, it was against a horrific defense in the Dallas Cowboys who had no secondary to speak of. And it was a lot of moon balls down the field. Malik Neighbors doesn't see a ball till the fourth quarter. Any quarterback worth his salt knows that's my playmaker. I got to get on the ball. And if you haven't gotten the ball and it's the middle of the second quarter, you're finding a reason to get on the ball. Ball you might get a play, might come in, go, nope, we're not doing that because I got to get him the ball. That never happened. So when that starts to go down, that's when you start to realize this isn't it and we got to make a move. I don't think they wanted to do it in Week four. I think the Saints game was the obvious landing place to try it. And then look, you got Eagles two in three weeks, but at least he's got a game under his belt. They were always going to go to Jackson Dart at some point this season. That was always the plan. Brian Dable spoke in words of we're working with him, we're developing it, we're getting him ready. It wasn't he wasn't suggesting that he wasn't ready. He was suggesting we're in the process of getting him ready.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Which means he's going to play. They had to advance the cause because the guy they put in his place to start the season, to get them through the tough first four weeks can't play anymore. And that. That. That's when you were forced to make a decision. And clearly, making Winston quarterback three tells you that whatever they saw in preseason was good was good enough for them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the logic of having Jameis there at all is when you bench Russell Wilson, you probably lose him. If you're Russell Wilson and you have $300 million and you're married to a celebrity and all the rest of that, why are you sitting on. You're not there to sit on the bench.

[Don La Greca]

Although it's being reported now that as of now, the plan is for him to be on the bench.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So fair. But that's now, you know, two weeks from now, that seems unlikely. So Jameis Winston is there to be a criminal backup for Jackson Dart. And that makes sense. That's actually good forethought. That's real planning that I give them credit for. And look, Day ball. I remember talking to you guys back when Michael was doing the show. Peter. We were together at. Forget what theater we were in. It was the anniversary of something.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, yeah, that was the Palladium.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was at the time when I said, you know, they should just rename the Coach of the Year Award the Brian Daboll Award and give it to the next best guy. His coaching job that year was so good. I mean, that was this lifetime. Brian Daboll did an unbelievable job coaching this team. I don't know that he can't coach. I don't know that he's the problem. When they asked Malik neighbors about it, he said that. He said, you know, Russell Wilson's not the problem. Jackson Dart's not the answer. Whatever it is. He said, it's not the quarterbacks. Daniel Jones wasn't the problem. There's a lot of bad stuff going on. Right. There's a lot of negativity sort of floating around within that franchise, and that just does not feel good from the outside looking in.

[Don La Greca]

So one of the things, obviously that's been said a lot this year and going back to last year as well, is just how vanilla the Giants offense has become. This guy who was such an innovator with Josh Allen does nothing interesting. If, in fact, we had a listener suggest, and I thought it was an interesting thought, that the reason Wilson played the first three weeks was kind of out of respect. We initially brought in Russell Wilson to be our corner before the draft. Since we brought him in, he's a Hall of Famer. We're giving him a game. Week one went badly. We'll give him one more. Week two is great. Week three, terrible again. Time to move on. Is there a world in which the vanilla offense we've seen from Dable will change when you get someone with the versatility of Dart but on the flip side of that greening, they could be vanilla again because you're bringing a kid into play as well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

And then there's the possibility that Dable just doesn't have the offense that we thought he had.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think Brian Dabel, I don't know. What the hell do I know? I mean, I think in theory Jackson Dart's skill set. I can go back to all the stuff that I had on him in the draft. I mean Jackson Dart can do a lot of the physical stuff that Josh Allen could do. He's not as big, but he's big and he's strong and he's fast and he can run and he can move. And Dabal did a good job taking advantage of Daniel Jones athleticism and I think Dart has more arm than Jones had. So I'd like to think that the offense will be a little bit more creative. Having Andrew Thomas back makes such an enormous difference. I mean they look like different teams when he on the field from when he's not. So I'd like to think that as the season goes on it's going to be more creative and look a little better. Look, this season was never going to be about the Giants making a playoff run or not. Realistically speaking, the season was going to be about coming to the end of it and saying we've got a lot of good pieces on defense and we've got a quarterback and a wide receiver combination that we can build around that could be really special. And now you'll get your chance to see the quarterback.

[Don La Greca]

So what's the goal?

[Peter Rosenberg]

We'll know.

[Don La Greca]

So what do they need to do in order to for table to keep his job we all agree Shane is likely to keep the job but for Dable to keep the job.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's think about that.

[Don La Greca]

Marinate.

[Alan Hahn]

We're going to think about that because that's not easy to just answer quickly. There's some things to consider because you can't expect wins. So what is it when if it's not exactly having more points than the other team at the end of the game. What is that? So Mike Greenberg's here with us. We've got more to get to with you. We have calls, 800 now. 193777. Don has reached his destination. He will be back with us coming up. And it is Talk About It Tuesday.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And we need Greeny to be part of Talk about it too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Green.

[Don La Greca]

He loves to talk about it, by the way. I guarantee you when we explain the simplicity of this bit that we're going to do, he will have something in the holster when we get back.

[Alan Hahn]

Right up his alley. Oh, and I'm told that someone needs to talk about it with him. Yeah, there's something to talk about.

[Don La Greca]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. In my ear I was let's give.

[Don La Greca]

Him something to talk about.

[Alan Hahn]

So there's we always give them something to talk about. And that is coming up. So stay with us. Don Juan Rosenberg, ESPN New York There.

[Mike Greenberg]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don La Greca]

And there's nothing more satisfying than admiring your freshly painted wall. Except maybe peeling off the painter's tape.

[Alan Hahn]

To see those crisp edges.

[Don La Greca]

But the most satisfying part of all, Valspar Ultra's price tag, starting at $29.98.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don La Greca]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes you just can't take it anymore.

[Alan Hahn]

This is let's Talk About It Tuesday with Don Hahn and Rosenberg, sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Don La Greca]

That's right, it is Tuesday and it is time to talk about it. And it is brought to you by our first friends at BetterHelp. Mental health is health. And when I think of just pure mental strength, wellness, joy, love, all of it, I think of Mike Greenberg with us today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No member of my family would agree with you, but I appreciate the sentiment and I.

[Don La Greca]

And is Don with us?

[Alan Hahn]

Don is. Don is with us. Audio hello Don.

[Don La Greca]

Hi Don.

[Mike Greenberg]

Hey Greeny. How are you?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm sorry that I missed seeing you here, but I was saying before, I'm delighted that you have this new opportunity and I'm glad to get a chance to talk to you even if it's not in person.

[Mike Greenberg]

Well, we will get together soon. We're only a block away and I miss you as well. I haven't seen you in a long time. I hope you're doing well.

[Don La Greca]

Now you Allen told me that someone has something they need to talk about with Greenie.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Anthony mentioned that there might be some controversy. So Greeny has a book out now with Hembo, but the previous book was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Got your numbers, Got your number was.

[Alan Hahn]

The first book got your number and it was 1 through.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We assigned every digit from 1 to 100 some figure in sports history. Most of them were uniform numbers, but in some cases they were not. And I know where this is going to go. I'm assuming Anthony's father is a Yankee fan.

[Alan Hahn]

So a lot of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is he on the phone and wants to yell at me? He's not on the phone.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, can we get him on the phone?

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I know then what he wants to tell me, because believe me, I heard it from a long time in the streets and everywhere else, that we assigned the number seven to John Elway and not to Mickey Mantle. And that was probably the hardest decision that we made in the entire book. And I will tell you the backstory. So two was Derek Jeter, three was Babe Ruth. And there were no options on that I wanted to get. Now my father was no longer with us. My father's favorite athlete was Joe DiMaggio. I grew up in a household where Joe DiMaggio was a deity. We were an irreligious family. We worshiped Joe DiMaggio. My father dedicated his first book, which had nothing to do with Sports, to Joe DiMaggio. So we loved my kids when whatever sport they ever played in their entire lives where they got a uniform number, they were number five in honor of their grandfather. So Joe DiMaggio was going in the book. I wanted to give DiMaggio 56 for the hitting streak, but the problem is 56 was very much spoken for. The greatest defensive player that ever lived wore number 56, and there was no way not to give Lawrence Taylor the number. So then we were in a place where we had 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7 would all have been Yankees. And that felt like it was a. We needed to make a tough call somewhere. John Elway, if you look at the history of the Broncos franchise, is maybe the most beloved athlete in any city and the most significant athlete to any city in any sport. So I fully understand that. To fans who are old enough to have watched, to have been around when Mickey Mantle was playing, the number. And specifically, specifically the number seven. Trust me, I know the Seinfeld episode. I am very much aware of it. The number 7 is as identifiable and certainly more identifiable with Mantle than it is with Elway in the larger consciousness. But it was a tough, close call. Believe me, I've heard the yelling, and I take it under advisement, and I appreciate it.

[Mike Greenberg]

It's not the biggest mistake in the book, though. We've talked about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Remind me, what's the other one?

[Mike Greenberg]

The other one is 87. You can't have Gronk over Sidney Cross.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, I mean, I feel the same. Same one.

[Mike Greenberg]

Now, Sidney Crosby, no matter what era, will, eventually, when his career is over, will be in the top 10 players ever to play in the league. Gronk would never be in the top 50 players ever to play in the NFL.

[Don La Greca]

Well, but where is he in the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Position I think is the best tight end that ever lived? You could make that argument. Travis Kelsey has more catches. But every time I bring that up, people, a lot of the football players I talk to will say, yeah, it's easier to make catches when you don't block anybody. Rob Gron. So. So that was. Look, there are a lot of debatable ones. I'll tell you another one that was tough. We're going back two books now. Another one that was tough was 80. So we gave 80 to Jerry Rice. And Jerry Rice is the greatest, maybe the greatest player at his position relative to his position, greater than anybody else ever was at anything. But not to give 80 to the miracle on Ice team was an excruciating thing not to do. And we ultimately decided the greatest honor we could give any player was to give them their jersey number, which is why I didn't want to take 56 away from Lawrence Taylor, and I had to give 80 to Jerry Rice. So there were a lot of tough calls like that we had to make.

[Alan Hahn]

That's the beauty of these books, Donny. Right. That's why we do them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, Don. But I've got the new one. Got yout Legends, if you haven't heard, it's out today. And we rank every franchise in sports from 1 to 124, literally, from the best to the worst. And then we picked the Mount Rushmore of every franchise.

[Alan Hahn]

We should do Mets.

[Don La Greca]

We've already guessed some. Don.

[Alan Hahn]

We did Yankees. Yankees, of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We could do Mets. Or you could do Giants.

[Don La Greca]

We did. We did. We've done so far. Yankees. We did. Celtics. We did Redskins. We did Knicks.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So for Don, we should do either. Don, you want to guess Giants or you want to guess Mets?

[Mike Greenberg]

Well, I'll. I'll go Giants. Obviously, Lawrence Taylor has to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Mike Greenberg]

So Lawrence Taylor.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, by the way, this can include owners, coaches, etc.

[Mike Greenberg]

Just so you know, broadcasters, which is interesting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In the case of the Giants. It does not.

[Mike Greenberg]

It does not. Or ownership, because I guess they're all playing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're all players.

[Mike Greenberg]

They're all players. So Melhein.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Melhein is not on the list. Really. Older player, but not Melheim. And we thought about. No, no, there's. There are a lot of older players at that. Mel. I know. That's a good job. By Don. That is not. Mel.

[Alan Hahn]

That's done showing off he's showing off.

[Mike Greenberg]

All right, so. All right, so obviously Lawrence Taylor, as I mentioned. So you go through the hall of Famers, right? So is Harry Carson. Carson there? No, no Harry Carson. This is Frank Gifford.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes. All right, Gifford.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Mike Greenberg]

All right, I feel good. Now we can argue because he spent a good amount of time in San Francisco, but is ya Tittle there?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but you're leaving out the obvious quarterback.

[Mike Greenberg]

I'm leaving out the obvious quarterback would be Eli Manning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Mike Greenberg]

Okay, so Eli Manning, Lawrence Taylor, Frank Gifford. So no, Melhein. And with Sam Huffman.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, not Sam Huff.

[Mike Greenberg]

I thought Sam Huff, cover of Time magazine.

[Alan Hahn]

I thought Sam Huff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, no, all hall of Famer also played a lot of his career in Washington and I think in many ways as associated with. He remained the Washington. Wasn't he the broadcaster in Washington for decades?

[Mike Greenberg]

Yeah, he was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think he remained. He became as associated with that franchise as some others. The fourth one is someone who was a Hall of Famer and create and set a record that stands to this day in a Giant uniform. A single season record. It's Michael Strahan. He became.

[Mike Greenberg]

It's a tough list, man, because really, honestly, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not going to argue with you. If you, if you put Mel Hein in there over anybody but Lawrence Taylor, I don't think people would have blinked. Now, I know there's a generation I didn't see him play, but as a Giant fan, Mel Hein just seems to always be somebody that gets brought up. That's good. Mets, obviously.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, Mets. We did this morning. Seaver was the obvious one. Yes.

[Don La Greca]

Yep.

[Mike Greenberg]

So you go, Seaver, you go. Did you put Mike Piazza?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, we did. Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, of course.

[Mike Greenberg]

Because a lot of time with the Dodgers and then left the mess.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But here's the thing about Piazza and, and we took certain things into account. The home run Mike Piazza hits in the first game after September 11th might be a significant. A regular season home run as has ever been hit in baseball in its own way. It is an indelible moment. It's unique, obviously, and for all of the worst reasons. But of all the plays in baseball history that did not change the trajectory of a season, meaning they did not determine a champion or anything like that. That's one of the truly great dramatic moments that I can think of in the sport. We did a whole piece about it on this 911 special that I did. So that factored into it. So we did put Piazza.

[Mike Greenberg]

All right, so then you got Darryl Strawberry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So we had to choose between two members. No, we did not put Strawberry, which was very hard, chose Doc.

[Mike Greenberg]

So you put Doc.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Doc. And then there's one more and the reason for the other. He's from the same team, but his connection to the franchise has remained.

[Alan Hahn]

So he's with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So is Keith Hernandez. Yes, it's Keith Hernandez. Because Keith Hernandez was not only. I perceived him to be the leader of those teams, but he has now remained broadcast huge, as beloved a broadcast as I think there is in the city.

[Alan Hahn]

He's like at the level of Clyde.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I mean.

[Alan Hahn]

When it comes to a broadcaster to his, to the fan base.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, beloved. And you know, all of the stuff that comes with it. In the Seinfeld episode, he's such a part of the cultural zeitgeist of the franchise that, that broke some ties. I mean, Strawberry's peak was greater than any of these, than probably any of them, with maybe the exception of Gooden or Seaver. So those were tough ties to. But so that's the way. That's the direction that we went.

[Mike Greenberg]

And quickly, just indulge me because of where I am.

[Don La Greca]

No, we want Devils. We need Devils.

[Mike Greenberg]

I would say Devils. It's Brodeur, Stevens, Nedemyer and Did you go Emmerich?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me get to the page.

[Don La Greca]

Well, the first three gotta be right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, let me go to the page.

[Alan Hahn]

Sounds like he had three broadcasters. I don't think Doc was one of them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, hold on a second.

[Mike Greenberg]

Then it would probably be Eliash.

[Don La Greca]

All right, those are the retired.

[Alan Hahn]

Luke.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Say it again. Start again. I've got the list of Brodor, Stevens, Nedemyer.

[Mike Greenberg]

No, if you went announcer, it would be Doc.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it's not an announcer, but it's someone else. Oh, my gosh.

[Alan Hahn]

Lamarillo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no. If you divide the history of this franchise into before and then after, this person, he changed everything.

[Alan Hahn]

Lou.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, Lou lamarrillo.

[Mike Greenberg]

You went executive. Yeah, of course. That makes sense.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And then Eliash. You said it. So it's Lamorillo, Brodura, Stevens and Alex Eliash.

[Don La Greca]

How do you feel, Don?

[Mike Greenberg]

Peter Meyer out. Well, I don't, I can't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who would you, who would you have put Neidermeyer in?

[Don La Greca]

Who are you taking out?

[Mike Greenberg]

Yeah, it's, I would probably, Honestly, I mean, it's tough because Bro. Because neidermeyer went to Anaheim and won a Cup there. Elias spent his whole career. So I, I, I'm good with that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Berdeur had to be. And Lamrillo we thought we felt had to be. I Break ties in. In the direction I always. I break ties in the direction of players wherever I can, but that one felt like I could not. So, anyway, the book is called Got yout Legends? It's available everywhere. Today they're doing a special price on Amazon. So if you go on Amazon right now and go just type in Got yout Legends, my name is the author. You can order it for a special price. Don, I'm now hijacking your show. I apologize.

[Alan Hahn]

I was. I was ready to go somewhere, but we might.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jack.

[Mike Greenberg]

I. I opened the show with this. I need to know what. If he's ready, then by all means, play him. But what changed over three weeks? The thing that changed over three weeks was the play of Russell Wilson. That has nothing to do with Jackson Dart. If Jackson Dart was ready to play in a season where nobody expected him to do anything with a very difficult schedule, if he was ready to play, then he plays on opening day. He didn't play on opening day. Russell Wilson did. So now Russell Wilson dictates when Jackson Dart plays and not when he's ready to play, because nothing could possibly have changed. Greeney in the last three weeks to determine whether Jackson Dart's ready to play or not. Would you agree with that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes. Here's what I would say. Two things. One, the fact that he was the backup always surprised me. The fact that you felt that if Russell Wilson suffered a high ankle sprain in the first quarter of one of these games, he, instead of Winston, is the guy you're putting out there, suggests to me that you are ready on some level to play him. And if you're ready to play him, then you should just play him. And, Don, you were on your way to the Rock, so you didn't hear this, but Jeff and. And Dominique. Jeff Saturday and Dominique Foxworth on my show brought up something I hadn't thought of, which is, there's a third. There's a third voice that gets heard. If they made the move because the owner was impatient, that's terrible. If they made the move because the fan base is impatient, that's terrible. What these guys brought up to me is he may have been facing a locker room revolt after what happened on that series of plays at the end in the fourth quarter when that's still a winnable game against Kansas City, and he throws three balls basically into the tunnel that. That he may have faced a locker room that was going to absolutely revolt if he didn't make this change. And that. That while it's not a good reason to Put the kid on the field. It felt like a good reason, but.

[Alan Hahn]

It'S not the first time. Because if you, if you go back to week one and I was chastised for bringing this up because it was week one, but when you watch it back now, in the same context of what you saw in game three, yeah, there was a bootleg where the pylon was there. Now it was, you know, 12 yards, whatever it was seven yards away. But Russ, five, six years ago, could have sprinted that pylon, beat the linebacker. He didn't. He held up because he knew he was going to get hit. And rather than getting chased down, hit, he just absorbed a hit and there was no play to be made. That when you're a player and you see that on film, you might not see that live, you might not know what happened live, but the next day they watch everything back. You know, everybody's watching film. And when that stuff gets seen on film and you see the business decision, I think that's the stuff that does permeate a locker room. But does it also, though Greeny and Don. Was Don with us when we, we discussed this, or was this in the previous segment when there was a suggestion in a comment? Right. Don, you missed this. This does seem to make sense. So I wonder if you, Don, and also Greeny might lend some credence to this. The Giants signed Russell Westbrook as a free agent before the draft, before they knew what they were going to do. Russell Wilson, I'm in the NBA mode already. And so he's a vet. He's. He's a decorated vet. Do you say, well, we've got to give him first crack. We don't need to rush the rookie anyway. Play him. Let's see how it looks. And we can always go to the kid that they would have gone to if they didn't have Russell Wilson. So is it, is it possible that this was all along at a. Respect, Give it to the vet, see how it looks. And if it doesn't look right, we just then now move to the next process, which is getting our young quarterback ready to go. And after three weeks, two of those three weeks look terrible. Is that, is that even reasonable to consider?

[Mike Greenberg]

I mean, it's reasonable consider, but remember, Wilson and Winston were signed before the draft, so I don't feel why there was any obligation at all to worry about Wilson's feelings or, or, hey, you're a veteran. He was there just in case. He always was.

[Don La Greca]

Well, but he was there. Just he was there first.

[Alan Hahn]

He was there first, he was there first.

[Mike Greenberg]

But once you drafted the quarterback, don't you pivot from feelings and legacy?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you don't have to rush. But if you don't have to rush your rookie, you know, again, this is not a top five pick. This is a guy you took late in the first round. If you don't have to rush him and play him Week one, Remember, those first four weeks were a gauntlet for the Giants. They have the hardest schedule in the NFL. So if you don't have to rush him in, and let's say Russ just plays well enough to get you through it while you're still working with the kid, it buys you time. But you were always waiting for the reason to make that switch.

[Mike Greenberg]

Perhaps that's the thinking now before Greeny jumps in, what about this is the possibility we're going to play Wilson because Mara wants to win games and the coach wants to win games. So it really had nothing to do with Jackson Dart being ready or not? Not. I want to win football games with a veteran quarterback because if they had won those games that they should have won against Washington and Kansas City, if you want to say they could have won those games, sure, they're two and one. He's still playing. And now you got the quarterback that's supposedly ready sitting there waiting because Maris trying to squeeze wins out and stay relevant. Dable's trying to squeeze out wins to save his job. So I'm wondering, was it anything other than the fact that now at 03 and every the ship is now safe. Now let's play the kid. So did he even consider dart when they started Wilson or was it just I want to go with a guy that's going to give me the best chance to save my ass and for the. For the owner to feel like, hey, I'm staying relevant because I'm winning games. Because all he said when he kept Dable, I want to win games. I don't want to be back here again next year. So was dart even considered in the process in the beginning of the year? Because all they wanted to do was try to see if they could squeeze a couple of wins out to start the season and make themselves relevant.

[Don La Greca]

All right, well, we can consider those possibilities. And of course, Greenies here, we got to talk some jets before. Before the man leaves.

[Mike Greenberg]

That was.

[Don La Greca]

Let's talk about a Tuesday. Sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com timeout today for 10% off your first month of therapy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Mike Greenberg]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Mike Greenberg]

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[Alan Hahn]

See associate or lowe's.com for more details and qualifying items. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don La Greca]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm back here. Don Ham and Rosenberg with Don McGregor, Peter Rosenberg. We have Mike Greenberg Greeny here in studio with us, kind enough to sit in for the full hour. And it's like when you, when you have like a radio pro, it just feels like, oh, we could just do this for four hours.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, he's done this before, which, you.

[Alan Hahn]

Know, if we lock the door, we can have for another two hours.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll be honest, I do miss it. People ask me sometimes if I miss it, and I do. Radio is the most fun thing in in the industry to do. People ask me about the difference between TV and radio all the time, and I always say it's much, much harder to do TV badly than it is to do radio badly. But it's definitely harder to do radio well than it is to do TV well. That's interesting.

[Alan Hahn]

And.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And radio will always be where I started and it's definitely going to be where I finish. I will just see.

[Don La Greca]

And you don't even get to do the best. Well, you did because you then eventually did middays, I was going to say. And most of your career wasn't even the best part of radio because you're doing God forsaken. Morning, afternoon drive is delightful.

[Alan Hahn]

The first opportunity though, like to me there's something special about that. Right. Like turning you guys on in the morning and hearing you and go like, whatever happened the night before, you had the first. I heard First Take, but yeah, it's essentially what you have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And then they put a show on after us called First Take, which was hilarious. But I. Look, it was, I. It was, it was a magical thing, a miracle that happened in my life, what that show became. So, yeah, the hours were a little challenging, but I will say in some ways they were the best thing that ever happened to me. Because when you have a job that ends at 10 o' clock in the morning. I took 17 shots off my handicap. I wrote all these books and I picked my kids up at school literally every day until they stopped wanting me to. And that was the best part. And I wouldn't trade that part of it for all the sleep in the world.

[Alan Hahn]

Would you trade it for a Lombardi to see a championship? We are going through once again, Greeny, Another Jet transition and it feels like you talk about it just turning the hamster wheel that you referenced earlier in the show. That is the exact existence of a Jets fan. It is the four letter word, Hope. It is. It is. Lucy pulling the football. Every time you think it's going to work out, it always pulls the football away every single time. How do you feel though about this current. I don't really. I'm watching Justin Fields as if he's a placeholder. Let's see if something happens. If it does, great. If it doesn't, whatever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

It's more to me about Darren Muji and Aaron Glenn. They need to find leadership you can believe in. I know that sounds like a slogan, but it really is what the jets have been looking for since Rex Ryan. Yeah, leadership you can believe in. Can you believe in Aaron Glenn?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look, I am inclined to like him because he was a really good player for the team and I think the jets matter to him. It's not just a job, it's not just one of 32 jets. I think he cares, so I like that. I do not. I did not Care for the way he handled the loss against Tampa. I did not like, I did not love him saying how excited he was about the fight. I don't even know what that means. Like, what's the alternative to fighting? Just quitting. Like the game wasn't over, the ball bounced away a couple of times and all of a sudden you're back in the game. Almost any team would have done that.

[Alan Hahn]

We didn't take a knee early in the fourth quarter.

[Don La Greca]

We didn't consider leaving. We didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I mean. It's hot. And so we just figured, ah, the hell with it.

[Alan Hahn]

We kicked it around, but we all said, let's stay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ah, we'll play, we'll see what happens. So I didn't. I don't care for that. I don't care for. Well, we never stopped fighting. I mean, that's what Chris Rock say. What do you want, a cookie? Like we're not supposed to stop fighting. And look at the end of the day when you get them, when the miracle goes your way and you block the kick and you run it back for a touchdown, now your defense has to make one stop and you win. That's what the game is about. The game is about winning. It's not about making a point. It's not about making a statement. There are no moral victories. And I know he said that, but then he proceeded to describe a moral victory for about five min. And I could live without being told we're not the same old jets. Because the reality is this is exactly what the jets have always been.

[Don La Greca]

You, you get to tell them when it's not the same old jets, you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Know, when you're not the same old jets, win games. So I don't care. So here's where I am. And I know, Don, you were a little put off or not a big fan of his standoffish sort of manner with the media and all that. Here's what I. Here's how I view this. All right? We had Rex Ryan. He never stopped talking. We had Eric Mangini, he was a mute. We had Herman Edwards, who was, you know, sort of a wacky. I don't give a damn how the coach acts. Win games. It doesn't make any difference to me what you say. I just want to see the team win a game. If they win, I will love you and if you lose, I will hate you. And it doesn't make any other difference. And so I hope that Aaron Glenn winds up. I think that preaching discipline, which seemed to be what he was talking about all through the training camp and all that. That's the right idea. It's not manifesting itself in the games. We still commit a lot of stupid penalties.

[Alan Hahn]

Michael Clemens is still a Jet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Michael Clemons still does a lot of really fails to set the edge on that big run by Baker at the end. And look, the jets are not. The jets don't have the talent that would make them a team that could make a deep playoff run this year. That said, they certainly should have won the first game of this season. They easily could have won this game. And those are disheartening. And then the most disheartening is that if their bus had not made it to the stadium for the second game, it would have been equally competitive to the game we played against Buffalo.

[Alan Hahn]

So it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It has been, I think, a. I used the word on Twitter. Alarming. I. I have found the start to the season alarming because too many of the things that I thought would get cleaned up have not been.

[Mike Greenberg]

Yeah, I just didn't love it. Just felt performative to me. Greeny, again, we've gone through it all where, you know, no gas, no break, or Rex predicting Super bowl before the draft. You know, it just. It's silly. I mean, fans want to see wins. They'll know it when they see it. And I just felt. I like Aaron Glenn a lot, and there's a horn behind me to prove it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's how.

[Don La Greca]

That's how strongly you feel, huh?

[Mike Greenberg]

I love. I like him. I love them as a player. I love him. I think he's going to be a really good head coach. But don't come in like, let's just show you that there's a new sheriff in town. Let's see wins. It's performative. Ben McAdoo couldn't coach because of. If he couldn't coach not because his suit didn't fit.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Mike Greenberg]

You know, like, we always look. Or, you know, Adam Gase wasn't good because he was seeing tacos in his opening press conference wasn't good because he wasn't a good coach. So he put so much stock in the appearance of being in control, the appearance of being a good coach. We're gonna find it out. When you go out there and you coach and you play, how good you are, how disciplined you are, how much. There's all gas and no break. We'll see it. If you got to tell us beforehand, then I'm gonna be a little dubious about it.

[Alan Hahn]

Is there something funny about Don making really Salient sports points and then music and all kinds of happening.

[Mike Greenberg]

This is what we went through when the Knicks were in the playoffs.

[Alan Hahn]

You're right. You're right. That was. That one night. The DJ just was. He was just rolling through all the New York hits in Detroit.

[Don La Greca]

I'm going to have to judge by the end of this year what's worse, the background. Pre hockey or pre basketball? I think it's pre hockey.

[Alan Hahn]

You think so?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. There's a lot of interesting stuff.

[Alan Hahn]

That's me in Detroit.

[Mike Greenberg]

They did give me the option of, like, a closet where it will have no feel, but at least be nice and quiet. Or this.

[Don La Greca]

But we'll see how bad it is. It'll make a call.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, this is great, because you got the jumbotron behind.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would. I would make a request. Could you get a little closer to the camera? I don't. I don't feel like I can see up your nostrils.

[Mike Greenberg]

Well, you know what, Greeny? How about that podcast show they stuck on espn, too? Exact same thing with you. I know what your brain looks like.

[Don La Greca]

I forgot what shows.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, right. First draft.

[Peter Rosenberg]

First draft.

[Alan Hahn]

So. So, you know, there's a. There's a slot somewhere on ESPN2 where they put, like, sometimes it'll be Wendy's podcast. Sometimes they put it on there once a week. And it's funny because a lot of you guys are home probably. Yes. The cameras are just coming off the. So, yeah, it's a lot of up nostril views.

[Peter Rosenberg]

100% correct. My wife was all over me about that.

[Alan Hahn]

She.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Someone said something to her about it, and she went and watched it on YouTube and she said, we're gonna work on this. So we got a camera. We've got all kinds of stuff now on my. Instead of. I just had a laptop and I was just sort of sitting facing it.

[Mike Greenberg]

No, you could do better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My kids make fun of me because, like, well, I don't realize. Look, I'm 58 years old, right? When I'm FaceTiming with them, if I feel like. Like there's noise around me, I'll put the phone right up to me. They're looking directly into my tonsils.

[Alan Hahn]

And kids, FaceTime, they don't call you they FaceTime, if that. Like.

[Don La Greca]

Speaking of which, this is a big name drop, but just.

[Alan Hahn]

Here we go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Get ready.

[Alan Hahn]

Get ready. Jake.

[Don La Greca]

Just to name Drake's Point. So last week, I hosted in that same time slot.

[Mike Greenberg]

I believe.

[Don La Greca]

I believe my Wrestle Palooza special was in the same time slot.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

I think 3:00' clock on Friday on ESPN, too.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes, that's how I saw it.

[Don La Greca]

And I hosted it. And it was me and Biggie from wwe. And our guest. No, that wasn't it.

[Mike Greenberg]

Believe he's got Biggie on the show.

[Don La Greca]

No, again, not Biggie. Big E. And our guest analyst was Tyrese Halliburton.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

I have a text conversation with Tyrese Halliburton. There's no reply in 6 months. And he facetimes me blind on Friday to ask me what I'm wearing. And I'm just like, this is because he's 25 years old. They just blind FaceTime people, these kids.

[Mike Greenberg]

He finally found a use for you. So he called about one.

[Alan Hahn]

Exactly.

[Don La Greca]

I'm like, what about all the other things I asked you about? All the last. Want to come on the show?

[Mike Greenberg]

Is this better now? Is this a better shot? Am I distance enough from the camera now or.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, we're a little.

[Alan Hahn]

We're a little behind.

[Don La Greca]

You look good into the big screen, but either way, Don, you look great.

[Alan Hahn]

You look fantastic. We got more to do with Dom, but Fagini, there it is. That's the book you want to get. Got your legends in stores, online, everywhere you get books. He and Hembo with another classic that you must read. It's so good to see you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you, my man.

[Alan Hahn]

Thank you so much. I'm sitting in Don seat and I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did the apprehension how close and easy this is, is. I'll be back. I could walk over here. Yeah, this is ridiculous. And I like it here. And you have good water, so I. I'll make myself at home.

[Don La Greca]

By the way, that's guest water.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's good.

[Alan Hahn]

We're not allowed to.

[Don La Greca]

It says guests only.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's very good.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. This isn't just another ESPN fantasy football season. It's your shot at greatness. With a refreshed design, the ESPN Fantasy app is sharper than ever. So you can draft like a pro and dominate your league. And introducing Gridiron Gauntlet, a new game mode where the best compete to be crowned the number one fantasy football player of 2025. One one app, one shot, one champion. Download the ESPN fantasy app and sign up to play ESPN fantasy football today.