← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Hour 2: Mike Vaccaro & Let's Talk About It
00:53:41
Don, Hahn & Rosenberg on ESPN NY
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A
Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the og it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing.
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B
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You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava.
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And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.
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C
So if you've been living in the
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White can branch out.
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D
Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe,
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A
and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more. This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
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D
That sounds like heaven to me.
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A
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.
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D
Game time is brought to you by Tullabar Dew Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, fellas, it's talent time.
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E
How was that?
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D
I appreciate the effort, but we're still gonna make changes.
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E
Yeah, I think so.
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D
The Knicks visit the Raptors with coverage immediately following us here on 880. At 7 o', clock, St. John's takes on Georgetown at MSG with coverage on 1050 starting at 6:40. And the Nets are in Miami to take on the heat at 7:30. Devils are home against the Panthers at 7:00'. Clock. That game's on TNT, so I'm not doing it. That's why I'm here in the studio. Matter of fact, the next three after this are all nationally televised.
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A
Haven't you been off enough, Don? Geez, you have to work.
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D
Come. Because I enjoy doing the games. I don't know if you realize that.
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A
I know you do.
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D
And just coming off of three weeks of not doing a game, and the next thing you know, I'm off another week again, like, what's going on?
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A
What a job, what a gig.
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D
You got one of the best people on the face of the earth, and I got to meet him through. Well, you say one of.
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A
Yeah, so you do.
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D
You do. Let's. You know. But got to meet him several times through Michael, and he'd always come on the show, but he's got a pulse on a bunch of things, a bunch of sports. He's been around forever. And he's Mike Vaccaro. He's got a book coming out on March 24th called the Bosses of the Bronx with George and Hal on the COVID And how often do we talk about stuff like this? So a million things to ask Mike. And he joins us here on Don Han and Rosenberg. How are you, man?
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C
Well, I just hope that I'm equal to that introduction. That was something else. I appreciate it.
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D
You are. You are so worthy of that introduction, if not more. But the topic of conversation, it's so pitch perfect that this book is coming out because there's so much conversation around Hal and George and all we do and you know how many Yankee calls we take. Not just going back to the case show, but even on this show. What would George do? How would George handle the. The Dodgers spending money? How would George handle his star player Judge not having a ring like. And everybody paints a picture and I don't think anybody has their finger on. They take two Georges and make them into one. Right. Because the evil empire George was not the George that we saw later on that a lot of kids got to see. Don't you feel like, Mike, that the fans take the two Georges and mold them into one person that never really existed?
- [03:08]
C
There was such a dichotomy in him. There really was. I mean, the. In the very beginning, he was actually a very astute big picture guy. He saw even as he was signing guys like Reggie and Goose every year. He knew that wasn't sustainable. You couldn't just buy the best player every year and expect to repeat success. And he believed, and he invested in farm systems, in infrastructure and making sure things could be repeatable. Of course, that was the boss. It was also a. George stammered and was a Yankees fan and he always ignored the other stuff and always overruled the smart choice, at least for a long period of time. And so you have that dichotomy, but you also have the dichotomy that, you know, in the 70s and 80s, he was, he was on the front of the parade for everything. And that meant job security wasn't great for managers or general managers. And as we know later on, I mean, he didn't fire anybody in his last years in the job because of course they were successful. And the irony, of course, is that both of his times of prosperity, while he laid a lot of groundwork, you know, because he was out of baseball and he happened to have hired Gabe Paul the first time and, and Gene Michael the second time.
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A
It was remarkable Vac, if you think about it, from covering him and then seeing how sports has changed, how athletes have changed, all of it. Right. We were asking this question last week when, you know, the, the what if George were alive thing came up. And as much as we loved how much he put, like, because Guidry was the one who was quoted saying how the guys today don't feel the same pressure we did because you never knew what he was going to say from day to day. You never knew, like you just said, like he was so quick he would fire somebody in an instant if he didn't like something that, that doesn't exist today. But I want to flip it and say, could he as who he was then, not, not the older guy we got to know towards the end. I'm talking about in his prime. Could that George have been George in today's world?
- [05:11]
C
Alan, It's a very fair question. It's really probably the basis of the book, to be honest with you, in a lot of ways, I mean, just as many of those callers as you get, you know, during the course of a baseball season, during a five game losing streak, my inbox, inbox is flooded with, you know, what would George do? What if George was still, if only George was still alive. And I understand that and I get the fans thinking that way, but here's something to think about, right? He was ahead of his time in free agency. He assembled in 1977 what was called the best team money could buy. Right? That best team the money could buy was a total payroll of about $3 million, which in itself is kind of funny, right? But even if, even if you adjust that for inflation and you bring it to 2026, that's about $26 million. Which is about what, which is about what they're going to pay Aaron Judge through the All Star Game, right? So it was, it was a different time, a different world. And look, you know, in those days when George would talk to his investors and they wonder why they haven't seen a dividend in a couple of years, he'd laugh and say, well, that's the cost of your season tickets. And everybody would have a laugh and they move on. Now, you know, how has to have a lot of different conversations with his partners when you're talking about baseball players that sometimes cost you three quarters of a billion dollars, it's just different. And yes, we can talk about how much George wanted to win, you know, what, how wants to win too. But the fact of the matter is that in 1977 and 78, when George wanted to play the big market owner, he had the resources behind him. And it wasn't quite as over the top as it is now. You didn't have the Dodgers or even the Blue Jays who were owned by these corporate monoliths. I mean, when George wanted to, wanted to pay, he was able to pay. It's a different game now. And that doesn't reflect, I think, necessarily hell's willingness to win. It just reflects the realities of the game. And to answer your question, I think George would be a lot more like hell than people want to believe.
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E
So now I'm going to play one of those people, Mike. And where do you think George would view this team after the last few years coming up short the way they have and however they want to frame it, it certainly feels like this year they decided to stand pat. How do you sort of feel George would view that decision making process from Cash in this regime?
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C
Yeah, that's a terrific question, Peter. And the honest question I think is that, you know, Aaron Boone wouldn't be the manager anymore and probably Brian Castro wouldn't be the GM anymore. So that's part of it that fans are always hungry for the blood thirst of wanting to get rid of the guys who aren't winning championships. That would probably be realized now with that. Now then you put the question and say, well then who would he brought in to replace them or would they have been better? And that's when you go back to the, to the George that kind of was starting to, to lose his grip on, on success in the late 80s. You know, he would make these impetuous decisions and they never won because he just, he could never get any kind of sustainability. Never got anybody who trusted in charge. But you know, when they lost 10 games in a row, the manager is getting fired. Didn't matter. Didn't matter if you were yoga bearer or just Howser or G Michael, you were going to get whacked. Now what I try and tell folks who always say that is yes, you probably would have gotten what you wanted in terms of people would have been fired. But I'm not sure he would have gotten in terms of, you know, the, the consistency the Yankees have been able to maintain for almost 35 years. That just wouldn't have been possible if you would have had the kind of every man every year different manager, every year and a half, different gm, every six months, different pitching coach. I mean I just don't think that would, that would have been anywhere close to sustainable. But definitely if Georgia were alive today, I will stay with authority, but I don't think these guys are probably still be on the job.
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D
Mike Vaccaro is the author of the Bosses of the Bronx and we're talking to him here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. The other thing he would do is call out his players. Do you think at some point he would have said something publicly about Judge? Not up until last year anyway, responding in the postseason?
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C
Yeah, 100% he definitely would have. And you know, to be honest with you John, I think one of the things that I like best about this book is that for generations of fans who just weren't old enough to remember what George was like when he was George, when he was the boss, when he was the king of the back page, you know, I don't think a lot of people who are Yankees fans now lived through those years. And while there were some problems, there was also a lot of entertaining entertainment value to it. So, you know, I just think that this is a guy who, for better or for worse, you know, he definitely would have been out front. He would have taken a shock at Aaron Judge. Look, I mean, he made. He. He criticized Derek Jeter at a time when Derek Jeter was, you know, basically the most unapproachable, unassailable athlete in the world. And he, you know, talked about him being too many late nights. And of course, George being George, he wanted making some money out of a. Out of a Picard commercial because of it. So. But yeah, he definitely. He wouldn't have a problem, you know, if, if he was in his prime, if he was prime, George and Aaron Judge was going through a tough May, he might not have called Mr. May, because that was already taken. And he might have taken a few points of shots. I know he would have taken a few points of shots with him. And God help somebody like Carlos Rodan or somebody like that.
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A
Yeah.
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C
You know, and he looked, even toward the end of his reign, you know, he was taking on David Wells and basically threatening the fight. And so, you know, and I think that's kind of the most entertaining parts of those. Of those really successful Yankees years is, you know, George had assault after David Wells, and Wells also drove him nuts. And he was more than willing to tell David that to his face. And that's just not something you're going to see around the Yankees nowadays. You're just not.
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A
I just don't. Can't imagine a world today, especially with social media, of how do you describe Fat Toad in print? Because I, I'll never forget how that was such a. I mean, we had editorial meetings about this at Newsday. I can only imagine what you experienced, but that's also part of it, too, like how he ran his team, all that stuff. But because you've been in the, you know, you've been in the media for so long, guys like him, they just don't exist anymore, do they? Maybe Jerry Jones, if you're in Dallas, maybe that's it. But I can't think of anybody else of the magnitude and control and how much he loved Being in the story and as much as Steinbrenner.
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D
Yeah.
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C
It's kind of why I was sad to see Mark Cuban go, because he kind of had a little Steinbrenner in him.
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A
Yep, he did.
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C
Jerry still does. But I mean, sadly, I think what you're getting with Jerry is the latter stages of Jerry Jones in the same way you get the latter stages of George Steinman or, you know, after a while, he just stopped being quite as present and quite as argumentative. And, you know, it's. It's. It's. It's. When you lose Jerry Jones, for better or for worse, you're going to lose the last of that generation. You know, I mean, one of George's best friends was Al Davis, and, you know, Davis was the same way, you know, and until the very end. But, you know, you talk about that other thing, the robbery thing. I think my most enjoyable part of the book, and I use it as an aside, is that is the editorial meetings you were talking about. Every paper had different ways they were going to refer to fat plus and toe. You know, one. One of the papers, One of the papers said, rhymes with fussy. Here's a funny one for you guys. I worked at the Star Ledger at the time, and Tim Brown, the great Tim Brown, he's got his own book coming out of Mellon Ryan. So just tremendous. One of my favorite teammates ever, that day. We spent like three hours with the office explaining how we're going to do it. And then we just realized that, you know, about two years earlier, the Sopranos had landed and the Star Ledger was like a big part of a lot of Sopranos episodes. And, you know, main character in the Sopranos was. There was a guy named by, you know, the other day, and they said, as long as, you know, as long as you spell it differently. And so they actually told us how. How big P spells his name. They said, just. Just take out the E or add the E. I forget which one it was. But. And so we actually had a conversation about that. So you don't get those kind of meanings every day anymore. It's just that's part of things that's lost.
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D
The other thing, Mike, is how would he deal with the Dodgers outspending everybody? And so do you think at this stage he would be in favor of a cap or would he try to figure out a way to outspend?
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C
So here's something I'll. I'll suggest is that while George got the reputation for being a guy who just went at all costs and spend everything Necessary. You know what his first two big fish that he caught, one was Captain Shunter and one was Reggie Jackson. And when he went after Captain Shunter, he was not the highest bidder for Captain Shunter, but Padres were. But now he was. He was out of baseball then, but he was able to kind of write a script today, Paul, about here's what you got to sell them on New York, the Yankees, and what it would mean to his hall of Fame career to be in. To be a Yankee and do what he's going to do in the next couple of years that sold them. Reggie Jackson was not the highest bidder for Frederick Jackson of all teams. The Montreal Expos were, and they wanted. They were going to pay him five million bucks. The Yankees didn't even pay name three. But while he recruited them, he took them around the city, literally. The cab drivers are saying, come on, Reggie. And yeah, you know, horse carriage drivers in the Plaza Hotel are doing the same thing. And, you know, George knew that the best way to get to Reggie was through his ego. And he got his. He got his signature on a cocktail napkin and ultimately a contract. And so I think because he was able to do that, that version of George would have found a way to compete with the Dodgers. I'm convinced of it. And he would have maximized. Whitney. New York is. He would have maximized what. What, you know, what the Yankees are. You know, I think maybe that's the one thing where I think the current leadership is a little lacking, but I also don't know that it would make a difference. I don't know that today's players are as moved by those kind of things as Catfish was, as Reggie was, as Goose Gotcha was. You can go on and on, and I think that's where. But I. But I certainly think Georgia to get it in a shot. I know the. One of the big arguments that he had with Stick, Michael, when he was sitting out the second time. Well, Stick couldn't close the deal with. With either Barry Bonds or Greg Maddox one free agent off season. And George said, you know what? I was sitting in your chair. I'd have closed that deal and, you know, didn't believe him, but George did. And I think that's really all you need to have a confidence to go into that kind of approach. So I think he would have figured out a way to at least put themselves in play and not be overwhelmed by the Dodgers the way everybody else in baseball seems to be. Right.
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E
Mike, what's your impression of the way George is seen by the kids at this point, like, do they enjoy conversation? Obviously they know people bring up and invoke their dad all the time.
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D
Does.
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E
Do they get any level of joy from it? Or is there. Does there start to. Does it become an albatross to the kids? To a certain extent, I can speak
- [15:53]
C
for how because I know how better than the others. And I knew Hank a little bit. I know he felt the same way. They both feel incredibly privileged to have been raised by George Seinband. And they know how life has been for them. Not always easy, but certainly not always hard. They know that they have a responsibility because of what George meant to the Yankees and what the Yankees mean to the city. I don't think they see it as an albatross. I think they see it as a privilege. But I also think that Mihal is very open. You know, he is not his father's son and he'll stay, stay with. With certainty. My father didn't want me to be him. He wanted me to be me and whatever that means. And so. And I think, look, I. I do think that we had a lot. We all had a lot of fun during the brief time and Hank was in storage because it was kind of like a junior boss thing going on there. But even that was kind of unsustainable in the moment. And I think that even Hank realized that how was, you know, his temperament was better, better serve to do this job over the course of 30 years. And then as a result, that's what you got. But they let me know the one thing Hal told me. He said, you know, how do you say it? You know, tell me you don't know me. Say, say I don't care about winning. I mean, it's, it's. He cares a lot about it. It bothers him that they haven't had, they haven't won in 16 years. But there is no magic elixir now. And the irony is that, you know, everybody wants to, you know, say that hell or that Caspian relies on, on the idea of a crapshoot. And on the post we did a couple weeks ago, we never found Brian Cashman actually saying that. And we know why. Because Joe Tory got ripped for saying all the time. But it's funny because even Hal now refers to, well, Brian calls it a crapshoot. Well, it is a crapshoot. People don't want to talk about it. And that's understandable. The thing I always say is the fans are allowed to be as ambitious as they want. You know, I don't think they can fit. Fans are spoiled. I think Yankee fans want what the Yankees have always been. And, you know, it's just harder to do that these days.
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D
Oh, for sure. But. But this false perception of. Hal doesn't want to win. No how wants.
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C
I don't buy that.
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D
Yeah, I don't buy it either, because he wouldn't have as high a payroll as he does.
- [17:55]
A
Right.
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D
But the fans are convinced that he should lose money to win, just like his father would. His father wouldn't stand for losing that much money to win.
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C
But his father invested $168,000 in the Yankees, and 30 years later, he was a billionaire. I think his dad knew the value of a buck, too, about that. All right, but here's the other thing.
- [18:17]
D
Yeah.
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C
And Don, I. I followed me when they. People say Woody Johnson doesn't care. John, M.D. cares what he used to do. You say about the golf. Of course you care if you're an owner. I mean, nobody cares as much as a fan, but I mean, the owners care. And you know, I, I mean, I relate in the book. Book. A conversation I had with James Dolan once at a time was he was very unpopular with the Knicks fans. And, you know, he would talk about. He's like, nobody gets treated the way I do. And I said, well, due respect, Steinbrenner, you know, once got basically chanted, you know, goodbye, George, the day he was released from baseball by 40,000 people. And he said by the end, they treated him like a king. I'm like, well, yeah, by the end. But. And then James. And then do you know, maybe. Maybe the funniest line ever heard James Nolan say, You say, well, maybe they'll love me when I'm dead.
- [19:02]
D
They just, they just want to win. But it's. It is, it is just kind of crazy, even. I know you said the Yankee fans aren't spoiled, but it is. There's no other organization like this that holds itself to that type of standard. That is all, as you just mentioned, has become, like, mythical where there isn't really that statement or, you know, second place is. And the missing statement is that championship or bust. But that's the perception. And there's no, you know, Cowboys, Montreal Canadiens, Boston, all the other dynasties and all the other sports have gone through their lulls. The Yankees have not really gone through their lulls. Haven't finished under.500 in over 30 years. But I don't know if there's another organization that comes close to the standard that the fans have set for the Yankees.
- [19:46]
C
No there's not. And you guys probably have plenty of soap expansion in your life and Cowboys fans in your life. And look, you know, they, you know, part of, I think being fans of those teams is having elevated expectations, you know, Patriots fans for a long time and the same thing. But you're right, knowing the team has, you know, basically championship or bus in their mission statement, and that's what the Yankees mission statement is. And, you know, yes, it's still part of the people who are running the operation now believe. But that was invented by George. You know, there was no such thing as, you know, I think with Scott Riley who said there's winning and there's misery. And I think George really kind of, you know, kind of embossed that for a lot of years for. Pardon the pun.
- [20:26]
A
I love that quote. So in the book, do you make a case for George Steinbrenner in the hall of Fame?
- [20:34]
C
You know, I do, Alan, and I'll put it this way. For a lot of years I was anti, you know, because I just think of a guy who got thrown out of baseball twice. You know, that's probably not a great resume to submit to the committee. But honestly, the more I thought about it, and I was also always a pretty strong advocate for Pete Rose to at least be voted on and ultimately included. But I always said the carryout was that you always, should always have on his. On his plaque, you know, what he did and why he was denied entry for so long. You know, the hall of Fame is a museum. It's a document of history. And so those things should be said. And look, I mean, Hal says it this way, and I couldn't agree more. It's impossible to write the history of baseball without including a couple of chapters on George Steinbecker. And for all the good, for all the bad, you know, he was. He was ahead of the field with, with the modern way of economics. He was ahead of the field with cable, with radio, with digital, with all that stuff, the. Yes. Network, all of it. And, you know, and yes, it was a bad. He was suspended. He was kicked out of baseball twice. And to me, I mean, yeah, okay, when you put him in, he put all of that on the block, and that's all part of who he was. But look, I mean, you know, you guys know this, right? If you play fantasy football and there's one guy in the league who takes it more seriously than everybody else, you guys call him up. Steinbrenner, right? You see the helicopter mom coming down at a soccer game. Here comes Mrs. Steinbrenner, right. Father Harrington at St. John's fired a bunch of coaches. We all call them Father Steinbrenner. I mean, there's no other person in the history of sports who's referred to singular like that, like, like George Steinburner. And I think that should be represented in the hall of Fame. I've changed my mind. 180 degrees I'm at and I guess it comes up for, for, for nomination again next year. He's never gotten close really to get there, but I think at some point he's got to, especially when you see the other owners who are in there. I mean, you know, based on that, you know, of course, you know, we can go through, through all based on that. Harold Bain's being in the hall of Fame, you know, Daniel Murphy probably should be too, but we got a speed. You never know how that works out. But I think he definitely belongs in there.
- [22:30]
D
Well, Mike, before we let you go, are we going to have baseball in 27?
- [22:35]
C
You know, here's what I think. I think there's definitely going to be a really, really hard work stoppage. There's no question. You just, I just don't see how they can bridge this gap because the gap is so vast. I just, I just think there were, there were too many people who were around in 94, 95 when they really did try to go nuclear. We could start sport. And it took him a long time to recover and in fact, what it took was players basically, you know, becoming, becoming steroid freaks, regain interest. Right. I don't think anybody involved with baseball wants to go through that again. So I, I, I hold that hope that they'll be some baseball. I mean, I think it's going to be one of those, you know, you know, garbage. 60 game, 80 game, 70 game years, which none of us really likes.
- [23:17]
D
Right.
- [23:17]
C
And we've had a couple of times. I mean, I still hold on to that. Maybe that's not, I mean, but I also think I might be being naive because I realize how vast the gap is between salary cap, no salary cap, salary for all those issues. So, I mean, it's, I guess what I would say to everybody, enjoy this baseball season and enjoy this book because there might not be a lot of baseball to talk about this time next year that isn't going to make you, you know, want to go for the
- [23:42]
D
mae All I hope Mike is, you know, me being a hockey fan. I hated seeing the entire 0405 season canceled, but it came out a better sport after it. If you are going to take out a significant year, make changes, do something so we don't have to go through this again. Like if you're going to have a 70 game season, have it come at the expense of actually instituting change so we don't have to go through this every four or five years. Otherwise. Otherwise, don't, don't. Because I don't want to. I don't want to sacrifice half a season and nothing change.
- [24:15]
C
Yeah. And look, I mean I think that that's. The baseball has been so good about. At least the player association has been so good about being incredibly, you know, strong to their principles. And look at the beginning, that was a. They had the moral high ground almost every time. It's a little different now because, because the, the pure fact of the matter is that there are haves and there are have nots and the have nots now outnumber the hats. And that's the problem. I think, I think there was still a time, maybe even as recently as the last, like when you might say it was 50, 50, you might include certain teams like the Cardinals as a big market team. I don't think you call them a big market team anymore, do you? No, there's, there's, there's the LA teams, the Chicago teams, the New York teams, the Red Sox and the Phillies and that's about it. I'm not saying those teams all are going to win every year, but after a while I can understand why it gets, it gets harder and harder to sell the Pirates and the Royals to their fans because they know better than anybody that it's just a, it's a, it's a loaded game right now. And I just, I'm a guy who's never going to tell somebody they can't make the max amount of money they can buy. So I mean, in theory I'm, I'm always going to be philosophically opposed to a salary cap, but I understand why something has to be done to be able to make everybody at least give everybody a fighting chance.
- [25:32]
A
I'll tell you what. Vac, not bad for a shaminade guy. I'll leave it at that.
- [25:40]
C
Every once in a while we have to answer back to you and Kenny Atkinson, to the rest of you Friars,
- [25:45]
D
the bosses of the Bronx comes out on March 24th. Order it. It's going to be amazing because Mike's amazing. Thanks for giving us a couple of minutes, man. We'll talk to you soon.
- [25:53]
C
Guys, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on.
- [25:56]
B
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- [27:28]
B
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- [28:50]
A
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [28:54]
E
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [28:55]
A
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes you just can't take it anymore. This is let's Talk about it Tuesday with Don Hahn and Rosenberg.
- [29:20]
E
Ah, talk about it Tuesday, folks. So many people do things, or maybe
- [29:28]
A
it's not even people.
- [29:29]
E
Maybe you're the person who did something. You know what I mean? That you just need to talk about things. Those things that you just go, you know what? Something needs to be said. I obviously spoke my mind earlier about Castaway. Just what a fine film it is
- [29:45]
D
though you were defending the film because you believe that it's vastly underrated.
- [29:49]
E
I believe. I believe it's vastly underrated and needed to be discussed. Well, and I was.
- [29:54]
D
Our second segment of the show. That's a lot of love.
- [29:57]
A
It was, it was a lot of talk about it and that was good to get that out.
- [30:00]
E
It needed to be done. I, I felt.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah.
- [30:02]
E
I tried to find Robert Zemeckis on social media. His daughter is on social media and very active, but Bob himself doesn't appear to be very active.
- [30:12]
A
Why don't you, why don't you DM her and see if we can get Bob on?
- [30:15]
E
Well, that's all I was thinking about doing.
- [30:16]
D
I didn't know.
- [30:17]
E
I didn't know how that she'd react. You know, Is that if that's a bad look. Hey, nice to meet you. What's up with your dad?
- [30:22]
A
Sup?
- [30:23]
E
Because she's got 143,000 followers in her own right. She's an actor, an author and director herself.
- [30:28]
D
Was there another purge? Because I lost like a couple of thousand followers.
- [30:34]
A
I really.
- [30:35]
E
I think you meant a new. A new installment of the movie the Purge.
- [30:39]
D
No meaning like, because sometimes don't they like cleanse like any bots or anything?
- [30:44]
A
They say that, but it doesn't really ever happen.
- [30:46]
D
Well, I guess people just aren't happy with my work. Well, tell me.
- [30:50]
E
Please do it. Go. Go ahead and tell me what's going on in your world, Don. Cuz you said you had multiple things to talk about.
- [30:55]
D
Well, but I wanted to settle on something positive because I think. Alan, you're going negative, right?
- [30:59]
A
No, no, this is positive. This is a. This is. This is something that I think needs this is a great example that a major corporation did, and I feel like it should start to become the norm.
- [31:13]
D
All right, you know what? It sounds like you're hot. Go.
- [31:15]
A
Yeah, go ahead. So I don't know if you noticed this, but United Airlines have quietly updated its contract of carriage last week. And one change that they made stood out to a lot of people, that this has made the rounds. Now, the change is this. Now, it's now listed as Rule 21, playing audio or video without headphones. The airline now has a refusal to transport section. It gives flight attendants explicit authority to remove you from the plane for that.
- [31:50]
D
I love it.
- [31:52]
A
So it's the whole idea, like. So now it expands on the existing ban on voice calls. Now it also includes video calls, FaceTime, Zoom, all that stuff that teams that they did not have written in. So once the doors are closed, you can't do any of this stuff. Nothing. Nothing that is audible. It has to be earphones only. And I think that's what it should be, because this is. It's all about the. The needs of the many, not the needs of the few. And so I think that this sounds like it makes sense. Doesn't makes sense to say that. That no, you shouldn't be standing there on speakerphone talking audibly with whoever you're talking to with your phone cranked up to 10 while everybody else is sitting there going, who. What the hell are you doing? But no one can say anything because there's no rules that say I can't do this. Well, now there is. And so I am now asking not only all the other airlines, but any other company, any other place of business to make this a universal rule that you cannot talk on speakerphone in public places around. People love this because let's all agree it's freaking annoying. No one wants to hear your conversation and add to it just audibly. It's almost painful because we know phone speakers are horrific. They don't have quality sound. And usually on the other end, it's. It's generally inaudible gibberish. So I love this. I think we need to discuss this. Is there anybody that disagrees with me? That this shouldn't be a universal rule?
- [33:43]
D
And this would have also applied to people like watching a movie without headphones. All of it.
- [33:48]
A
All of it. I mean, I take the subway every day.
- [33:51]
D
The only.
- [33:52]
A
It does happen on the subway too much. And I think it's done by people who want attention. But you mean.
- [33:58]
E
But for the record, you mean the speakers. You mean the speakers are on right like they're not talking into headphones quietly. No, not that they're loudly with. And the person's responding and you're hearing it all.
- [34:07]
A
That. That's rule is this is not about. You have headphones on. You're talking to someone and you're answering. You're talking to the person. It's a one way. Maybe I'm hearing you murmur a little bit. This is that just. Just the speakers going. And it's just.
- [34:22]
D
I don't.
- [34:22]
E
I haven't experienced that that much.
- [34:24]
D
Not unfortunately.
- [34:25]
A
It's a regular thing on the. On the train, on the lir.
- [34:28]
E
That's crazy. No. I fully support there being a ban on that.
- [34:32]
D
Fully.
- [34:33]
A
No. So Don, you two like. Like no one finds this to be, you know, like too
- [34:40]
D
aggressive.
- [34:41]
E
No.
- [34:41]
A
Not to have it on fair. What if I don't like wearing headphones? What if I have put the phone
- [34:49]
E
up to your ear and turn the speakerphone.
- [34:50]
A
Remember that?
- [34:50]
E
Remember the old way to use a telephone?
- [34:52]
A
Yeah.
- [34:52]
E
You just put it up to your ear and talk.
- [34:54]
A
You know how people will find something that becomes the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many thing which is, you know. Well, I have this rare condition that I. I have to listen to a speakerphone. Right. Like they'll come up with something. They always do. I. I have to be allowed to do this.
- [35:11]
E
I can't see anyone in the right
- [35:12]
A
man mind be allowed to go somewhere else and do this.
- [35:14]
D
I think that there's the two types of people that wouldn't admit they're those types of people are they just don't care about anybody else. Well, that's their world. You're. You just happen to be in their way. Mm. Or it's somebody trying to provoke.
- [35:29]
A
Oh, I'm telling you, I got the video going.
- [35:32]
D
I'm waiting for somebody to take a swing at me because I want to. And I can't defend either any of those people because there is nobody in their right mind that feels. I got to hear the damn conversation. Okay, stop it.
- [35:43]
A
No, there can't. Can't possibly be anybody.
- [35:47]
D
No.
- [35:48]
A
That would have it. But yet. Don, we say this like no one will disagree with this. Right. But yet. And this is simply to me, a common courtesy. That's all it really is. We have to make a rule for it. Because while we all think this makes sense, there are enough people that don't give a rip about it that do it and would probably argue that they should be allowed to do it.
- [36:15]
D
But I need to hear the argument.
- [36:18]
A
Oh, I.
- [36:18]
D
What is.
- [36:19]
A
You really want to hear that argument? Like, I think in a restaurant that. Not. It's a common courtesy. In a restaurant, it should be you. Not only are we not serving you, we're asking you to leave. Because why would we even want you as a patron in our place? If you would think right at the beginning that that's acceptable behavior. Which tells me that once I tell you, please turn that off, you're bothering my other patrons, you're going to find something else to do. Now, I already know what you're about. I'd rather you leave now.
- [36:45]
D
It's not much of a plane problem because once you get in the air, you know you're probably not going to be talking.
- [36:49]
A
Oh, no, there's still people that. But it's not talking. It's watching a movie or something.
- [36:54]
D
But on the only thing, and I'm not saying I'd accept it, but hear me out. On a train, there is a quiet car. So could the person say, hey, listen, if you wanted quiet, if you didn't want to hear my conversation, then you should have bought a ticket in a quiet car. But you're not in the quiet car. Hence it's loud. And I'm gonna be like everybody else. This the way I want to talk on the phone. If you don't like it, get another ticket. They could respond that way. Cuz there is a quiet car where you're not supposed to use your phone.
- [37:23]
A
Yeah.
- [37:23]
D
So they are kind of suggesting, hey, if you want to be a yo yo, go, go to that car. So it's on you. Now, I'm not saying I'd accept that because then you'd be that guy. But I could see that be the response.
- [37:36]
E
All right, Don, what was yours?
- [37:38]
D
Well, it was just gonna be complimentary.
- [37:40]
G
Oh.
- [37:40]
D
Because you could still talk from Pittsburgh to St. Louis, per suggestions from many people, including Alan Hahn. I watched the Netflix documentary on the US Hockey team from.
- [37:53]
E
Alan had pushed you on this many times.
- [37:55]
D
And I didn't think it was because I thought the gold standard of documentaries was hbo. Like, you couldn't do better than hbo.
- [38:02]
A
Hmm.
- [38:03]
E
Historically, they've done their thing.
- [38:04]
D
They blew HBO away now. And you and I and everybody was telling me that. I'm like, well, maybe because the HBO one was like 20 years ago. So maybe they came at it at a different angle. No, they just had better footage because that. That to me makes a documentary is the footage. And apparently I got to talk to Ken Morrow, who was on that team. He was in St. Louis when I was doing the Devil Blues game. He said there was like a. There was a company that they were able to get all this extra foot. It was amazing. I don't know if you've seen it, Peter, but they would show you Bud Schneider today and then the interview that he did when he was in camp with the Olympic team. And so they're looking back at each other from 46 years ago or 45 years ago when they made the documentary, because it was. Right. It was around the 45th anniversary. And how emotional they got. Looking back, the audio that they had, they just had better footage. He's dead.
- [38:59]
E
Well, that goes a long way.
- [39:01]
D
And I thought that. Because I think people are starting to really figure that out, that that's really what makes a documentary. And really just. They did a tremendous job. And I was talking to Allen about it yesterday that like, Kenny Morrow is a guy that you. You don't know if he's happy, sad, very stoic. He broke down during the documentary because he had a letter that Herb Brooks sent all the players after it was over, kind of like de facto apologizing for the way he kind of abused them during camp and everything because he wanted the best for them and hoping that they, maybe they'd be able to maintain relationships now after it was all over. Some did, some didn't. And he ended up passing away about what, like 22, 23 was like 2003, I think he passed away. So, you know, significantly past 1980. But, you know, he hasn't been a part of all the different celebrations and all that since then, outside of the 20th. And just Kenny talking about it to me in St. Louis, like you could see how passionate emotionally was. And then you wrap it all around what just happened last Sunday. You know, it was pretty special and I really enjoyed it. It's not that long, so even if you're not that big of a hockey
- [40:06]
A
fan, it was an hour and a half, right?
- [40:08]
D
Yeah, but it really just.
- [40:09]
A
But it's so.
- [40:10]
D
Really tells the story and it really just tells the story.
- [40:12]
E
And I really. I should do it because I really haven't ever spent that much time with it.
- [40:18]
A
It makes it more personal. Personal again, the movie Miracle, those are actors and they're playing characters, Right? Like, really. Although it's all based on reality. But this documentary, as Don said, has behind the scenes video of these men as kids. So to see them sitting on the bench talking. And they're of course, all in their 60s, right? And then you cut to video of these Same guys as 20 year olds it's, it's, it just feels. You get a much deeper connection to them and the passage of time and the memories and how close they are. It just, there was something about it that. Because I'm like, you, Don. I'm like, I saw the HBO one. I saw the Carl Malden movie way back.
- [41:07]
D
Oh, I remember seeing that when it came out.
- [41:09]
A
I saw the obviously Miracle. I've watched Miracle a bit billion times. My son can quote every line from the movie. And I'm like, I'm so saturated by, you know, the 1980 gold medal thing. Like there's nothing that I haven't seen. I also saw the one, the one that was based on the Russians. Right, Don? That one too. That was really good. Yeah, that one on the Russian team. But this. And I'm, I'll watch it. And I'm like, I'm better for it that I watched.
- [41:35]
D
No, it was really good. And, and you know, we've lost a few of those guys since then, but they really just did a tremendous job. So if you get a chance to see it, it's on Netflix and it's just, it's absolutely outstanding. Get ready for rickleball madness. Friday, March 20th. ESPN New York is taking over Pickleball Heaven in Medford, New York. Catch a live broadcast of DPA Jon Rothenberg starting at 6am Then stick around for our social ladder pickleball tournament. We'll crown our champion, then roll right into a college hoops watch party to cap off the day. Sign up now on the ESPN New York app. Spots are limited. Rickleball Madness brought to you by Pickleball Heaven, the standard of indoor pickleball. Well, there could be another quarterback option that isn't really all that unattractive. No, it's a jet fan.
- [42:22]
E
Depending on the price. That's, that's the thing.
- [42:24]
D
Well, the price I'm seeing is very, very right. Well, that's what their budget.
- [42:28]
E
That could make it attractive. Yeah, because at a different price.
- [42:32]
A
Not a meguster.
- [42:33]
E
Oh, okay. Well, listen, listen, speaking of money, speaking of attractive basketball fans, it's time for the super trade. A sweepstakes. FanDuel is all about those three point moments. And today, three. Three, you have your own shot at a big win from downtown. Place a three point wager and you'll be entered to win a share of over $3.3 million in bonus bets. Download the Sportsbook app by going to FanDuel.com local to claim your profit boost.
- [43:00]
D
All right.
- [43:00]
E
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C
quick time out some breakfast intel you
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F
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A
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F
They're packed with 12 to 14 grams
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C
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A
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C
So you're getting something that actually fuels
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A
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- [44:38]
G
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- [45:46]
A
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [45:49]
E
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [45:50]
A
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:58]
D
That sounded like something that would have us back to break. I apologize. I'm anxious to talk.
- [46:02]
E
Well, we're gonna need a drop from it, unfortunately. It's an unfortunate thing.
- [46:05]
D
I'm sorry, Jacob.
- [46:06]
A
I just felt like we were back.
- [46:09]
E
Well, now it's De La Soul. But Don just went rogue in the middle of a commercial.
- [46:16]
A
He just dove in. He jumped in.
- [46:18]
D
I thought we were back now.
- [46:20]
E
Now we're playing some daylight. And speaking of native.
- [46:24]
D
That's right.
- [46:24]
E
And speaking of native tongues, be remiss to not mention that Bob Power, one of the great engineers in the history of music, passed away yesterday at 74 years old. He's the engineer for the Tribe albums. J. Dilla Common, Erykah Badu, the Roots.
- [46:45]
C
Wow.
- [46:46]
E
You know, and those early Tribe albums. The.
- [46:50]
D
The he.
- [46:51]
E
So he studied jazz in college. Jazz was like his thing. And then as he became an engineer, Alan, that's how you can hear the mastery of him combining the jazz sounds into hip hop. Actually, it started with. To go all the way back. Stetsonic, the original, like hip hop band.
- [47:08]
A
Wow.
- [47:08]
E
And. And then of course produces those albums for Tribe, you know, which Don, for a lot of people. People, you know, I saw. I saw an A note online sort of comparing Low End Theory to like sergeant Peppers, you know, like one of those albums that's like just. It just changes things like that. The album gets made, it just changes.
- [47:27]
A
And the sound of the times changed with it.
- [47:30]
E
Exactly like that. Like, you can argue, people argue back and forth between Low End Theory and Midnight Marauders, but. But in terms of which one like truly sort of changed things, I think it's Low End Theory and Bob Power the engineer is just such a critical part. I haven't reached out to Q tip yet, but yeah, everyone sort of from that world is mourning him today.
- [47:50]
A
So we should hit some rest in Power.
- [47:53]
E
No pun intended. We should hit some Low End Theory joints today as well.
- [47:57]
D
Anyways, that sounds good. Just let me know if it's a break or a commercial.
- [48:00]
E
Yeah, because it's. Because listen, this is the funny. No, but you weren't here, Alan. The best part is Don goes, we're back. Anthony goes, no, we're not.
- [48:07]
D
No, we're not.
- [48:08]
E
And while he's yelling, no, we're not, Don's already got his headphones on and will not be stopped.
- [48:13]
A
Right.
- [48:14]
E
And then cracks the mic. John comes running in the room, Jacob's terrified. And we'd never seen anything like this before.
- [48:21]
A
Mass hysteria.
- [48:23]
E
That exactly true.
- [48:25]
A
I just heard Don break into a commercial and I was like, what? What happened? So you're just. I think we are the last show to do it. By the way, every other show has been tripped up. Maybe not Michael, I don't think Michael has been.
- [48:33]
E
But that hold us. So this has happened to multiple hosts.
- [48:36]
A
It's happened to dnr, I believe. And I definitely happened to Barton Carlin.
- [48:40]
E
I look very forward to hearing this at 6 o'. Clock.
- [48:42]
D
All right. I'm not. You're already looking forward to 6 o' clock because CNN.
- [48:47]
E
Oh, you bet your ass.
- [48:49]
D
Kyler Murray is a free agent.
- [48:51]
E
Sure he is.
- [48:52]
D
Adam Schefter tweeted sources. Cardinals have informed quarterback Kyler Murray that they intend to release him on the first day of the league year next Wednesday, barring a trade between now and then. Why would anybody trade for him? Arizona already owes him $36.8 million guaranteed for 2026 and another 19.5 million would have triggered on March 15 for 2027. We now he now will be moving on. He's already sent out a tweet saying goodbye. So he's done Now. I know how you feel about Kyler Murray. I'm no fan either, but he's already making nearly $40 million guaranteed this season from the Cardinals. If there is no real interest and I can get him at like the veteran minimum, why wouldn't I do it? I got a ton of money under the cap. I can get him for a bargain. And if he doesn't work out, I cut him.
- [49:47]
E
Doesn't.
- [49:48]
D
It doesn't bother me. I mean, I wouldn't pay for the guy, I wouldn't trade for the guy. But if I can get him for a song, wouldn't I bring him in and just hope to catch lightning in a bottle if I don't? Goodbye.
- [49:59]
A
Alright, so what's his motivation to come here rather than to a better situation? Such as?
- [50:07]
D
What is a better situation?
- [50:08]
E
Go ahead.
- [50:08]
A
What team is going to be Miami have better weapons. That's one example.
- [50:16]
D
Well, no longer.
- [50:16]
E
Tyree.
- [50:17]
D
Dude, I Don't. I think there are a ton of places that he can go. I don't know if anybody wants them.
- [50:23]
A
That's not true.
- [50:24]
D
Well, who's going to.
- [50:25]
A
I just don't need quarterback.
- [50:27]
D
Teams need quarterbacks.
- [50:28]
A
Give me the teams that need quarterbacks. Pittsburgh, they have good receivers.
- [50:34]
D
They have good receivers.
- [50:35]
E
But if you're Pittsburgh, are you taking a swing at Kyler over Rogers?
- [50:39]
A
Aaron Rodgers at 42?
- [50:42]
D
Yeah, I'd rather.
- [50:43]
E
I'd still rather have Rogers at 42.
- [50:44]
A
Would you?
- [50:45]
D
No, I would. Now, Miami, you're hearing that Willis is going to go to Miami. All right. Perhaps. Perhaps.
- [50:51]
A
Well, that's a perhaps. Now again, there's a lot of speculation on that.
- [50:55]
D
I'm just saying is, is that I don't know if he's going to have as many options as you think. Now, there might be a team that will take a chance on him that will have him be the backup quarterback or just as an insurance policy for, like you said, maybe Pittsburgh brings him in saying, listen, I got a 42 year old quarterback and if he gets hurt, I want to know, I got a pretty decent quarterback I can throw in there and try to salvage my season. Right? But how many teams are going to say, hey, you're my starting quarterback, you're my starting quarterback for 20, 26, go out there, win the job, it's yours for the taking. How many teams are going to be willing to do that? And how many teams does he have a chance to win it? Right. The jets don't have a quarterback room. So he might say, all right, I'll go to the jets and if they don't go and go out and draft, even if they draft the quarterback, they're not going to play him right away, in all likelihood with the pick that they have. So I got a chance to play and prove everybody wrong and see if I can land someplace after the season. I wouldn't pay a lot of money for him, I wouldn't trade for him, Allen, but if I can get him for a song, why not? Now maybe other teams gobble him up and you don't get them, but if he's sitting there with no money shares
- [52:06]
A
left, yeah, you have money, but like, you do have that, right?
- [52:09]
D
But I don't have. I don't have to spend. Listen, I would. What am I, $93 million under the cap?
- [52:14]
E
According to Sportrack, he could sign for $1.3 million, right.
- [52:18]
D
Who would be the veteran minimum? So you're telling me, Alan, no one's interested in him and the teams that are interested in him can't guarantee him a job. And the jets go, all right, we'll give you $1.3 million. Job is yours.
- [52:30]
A
Yeah, well, we're. All right. First of all, we're playing a game of. This is hypothetical because you know, Frank Reich might say he doesn't fit the way I'm going to play. So. So that's out. Right. So that's just one thing to think.
- [52:40]
D
Right.
- [52:41]
A
But are you looking for somebody like we said, like one thing about Kyler Murray, as much as you're frustrated by him and then when Anthony, when does GTA come out? Is it November?
- [52:51]
D
Well, yeah, it's always coming out of summer.
- [52:53]
A
GTA is a sore subject for any video game fan because we've been waiting for that for years. It's Call of Duty and that usually COD in the October.
- [53:00]
E
It's cod.
- [53:01]
A
You know what it is? The kids have these silly acronyms. Well, whatever it is that comes out every fall that ends up. He gets off to a good start and then he falls off the map. And in his contracts, previous contract now this was one has been. Is over. They had to put in a stipulation that he had to put in a lot of time to focus on video. You don't do that if like it's just for fun. You do that because you saw a problem.
- [53:24]
D
Yeah, of course.
- [53:26]
A
But he has had game.
- [53:28]
E
He.
- [53:29]
A
He does have talent.
- [53:30]
D
He does have talent.
- [53:31]
A
He could help you. He could. Does it advance the cause? I just don't know if you're doing it on a one year deal or two year deal or Are you saying he's still relatively young? This is our guy for the next four years. Like I, I don't, I don't know. I really don't have a good answer for this. My instinct is to say I'm good.
- [53:55]
D
I don't see the risk though like
- [53:56]
A
you're saying getting stuck in a multi year deal.
- [53:59]
D
Well, no, but that you don't do that. What I'm saying is, is that I need a bridge quarterback. It's the nobody else is interested in. All right.
- [54:05]
A
So no one else wants to sign him. And all he's got is my flimsy one year, 1.75 seconds million dollar contract.
- [54:16]
D
Right. But I can offer him something maybe other teams can't and that is New York. A real chance to win a job with the jets for the year and be given 17 games to stick it to everybody in the league and then maybe build up my numbers and then be and Then become a free agent at the end of the year and
- [54:34]
A
go to town, have him Sam Darnold this thing.
- [54:37]
D
Well, you're using each other, right? Like, the jets would just use him as a quarterback that maybe wins me some games, bridges me to my next quarterback, and he could be looking like, hey, I don't care about the Jets. But you know what? I want to win games, too. I want to do well. I want to build up my numbers.
- [54:50]
A
In this scenario, don't you have to then get a quarterback in the draft this year? Because you know you're probably not going to be in that. You're not going to have that kind of a record, right, for next season's draft. You don't expect to be that bad.
- [55:06]
D
Well, that's the same thing if you go get Kirk Cousins. Right. Except he's 38 years old and it's going to cost you probably more than $1.3 million.
- [55:12]
A
Yeah, right.
- [55:14]
D
I'm just saying he becomes attractive because I'm almost getting him for free.
- [55:17]
A
Yeah.
- [55:18]
D
And all of a sudden during camp, he's showing up late because he's playing Call of Duty. Bang, you're cut. Nothing big deal. 1.3 million. So what?
- [55:26]
A
Okay, well, again, in this whole. In this whole thing, it's. It all depends on cost and how much I'm stuck. Okay. Does he have no other. If he has no other options? Say this. If I'm Darren Muji, of course I'm making a call. Of course I am. Just like, I'm making a call to the Raiders to see, like, are you going to get stupid? You know, are you. Are you not that sure about this guy? Are you willing to move off the one? If you are, how much is it going to cost me? I need to have a piece of paper before the draft that gives me all the options that I have to consider. Well, really, they might be like me, the dumbest ideas, but I need to know yes or no on all these things, and one of them has to be is Kyler Murray, somebody I can get for a reasonable cost and a reasonable length of contract to go forward with. If, If. If there's more to this or they think there's more competition for it, then I'm out. But I need to know, so he's got to make that call. I don't love it as an end game, but I know Muji's got to make the call. Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [56:29]
E
I don't want to know how the
- [56:30]
A
sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8, 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. Calling all fun lovers and memory makers, Texas invites you to cheer from our stadiums and dance like no one is watching. Culture seekers can find the art that truly inspires. And from our shopping hubs to our chic boutiques, fashionistas will never leave empty handed. Texas is an unforgettable experience that's waiting just for you. Visit traveltexas.com and plan your trip today. Let's Texas.