Hour 2: Mike Vaccaro & Talk About It Tuesday

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Mike Vaccaro & Talk About It Tuesday

Date: October 28, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Guest: Mike Vaccaro (NY Post Columnist)

Episode Overview

In this lively hour, the trio dives into the murky origins of the Yankees’ “crapshoot” playoff philosophy with guest Mike Vaccaro, explores the differences between sustained dynasties like the Dodgers, Yankees, Chiefs, and Patriots, and commiserates about the persistent luck and calls favoring NFL’s elite teams. The segment wraps up with "Talk About It Tuesday," a cathartic, wide-ranging discussion circling mental health, NFL officiating, dynasty ennui, and what it actually feels like to support a perennial winner.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Catching Up & Nickname Banter (00:41–04:25)

• The hosts riff on the authenticity of sportswriter nicknames, with a playful back-and-forth about “Vac” for Mike Vaccaro, and the etiquette of using player nicknames.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Peter Rosenberg: “They would kill the fact they're killing me because I called them Gelbsy.”
    (03:15)
  • Mike Vaccaro’s story about the evolution of Howard Johnson’s nickname, from “Hojo” to “Haji Ali” to “Sheik.”
    (04:02)

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2. Interview: Is Yankees Playoff Futility a ‘Crapshoot’ or a Copout? (04:25–19:40)

The ‘Crapshoot’ Quote Origin

• Rosenberg quizzes Vaccaro about a story that examined whether Yankees GM Brian Cashman ever really called the MLB postseason a “crapshoot”—a quote embraced (and despised) by fans and media.
• Vaccaro reveals:
  • Despite deep archival searches, Cashman never used “crapshoot” in print (LexisNexis, Newspapers.com searches yielded 200+ references, none direct).
  • The idea originated with Billy Beane and was frequently used by Joe Torre.
  • Hal Steinbrenner has quoted Cashman as saying it, though wrongly.

“The one thing he did say ... he talked about how random the playoffs can be, which is essentially the same sentiment.”
—Mike Vaccaro (05:50)

Cashman's Philosophy, Dodgers/Yankees Comparison

• The show plays a 2021 Brian Cashman clip (“If you can get yourself in the postseason... you're a World Series contender... October is a completely different race... We just got to get ourselves in so we can take our shot.” (07:51))
• Discussion:
  • Organization “talks around” the concept; doesn’t use the specific word for optics.
  • Torre’s use of the phrase to soften repeated playoff failures.
  • Other elite teams (Dodgers, Astros) have consistently won, challenging Yankees’ narrative.
• Quote:

  “When you don't have the mojo, it's a crapshoot. When you have the mojo, it's by design.”
  —Alan Hahn (10:18)

Yankees’ Roster, Winning Formula, and Boone’s Role

• Vaccaro on Yankees “dynasty era” (1996-2003): dominance meant never reaching elimination games, avoiding randomness.
• On Aaron Boone’s influence: believes the roster makeup, not just managing, is the issue.
• Key point: Today’s Yankees lack the "grim and gritty" DNA necessary to consistently win in October.
• Quote:

  “Those are guys who were just grim and gritty and relentless... I’m not saying it doesn’t matter to these guys, but... the makeup is different.”
  —Mike Vaccaro (12:44)

Dodgers, Yankees & The Power Game

• Dodgers’ October formula discussed (power hitting, clutch players) vs. Yankees’ recent failures.
• Consensus: Dodgers simply procure better postseason performers, not just bigger names.
• Player debate: Judge (NY) vs. Ohtani (LA).
  • Ohtani’s two-way dominance described as “unicorn.”
  • Judge still considered elite, but Ohtani’s skill set is unprecedented.
• Quote:

  "It’s like being the best heart surgeon in the world, and also the best dentist. Those skills shouldn’t translate, and yet, in Ohtani’s case, they do."
  —Mike Vaccaro (17:48)

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3. Talk About It Tuesday: Officiating, Luck, and the Weight of Dynasty (24:43–39:45)

Sponsored by BetterHelp

Momentum Officiating & Football Frustrations (24:43–29:49)

• Rosenberg vents about “momentum officiating” in NFL—calls always seem to favor the powerhouse teams (Chiefs), making underdogs’ jobs harder.
• LaGreca jokes about how fate and “God” also appear to be on Kansas City’s side (The Chiefs have fumbled 8 times and recovered all 8 this season).
• Reflections on how elite teams always seem to get every break.
• Quote:

  “I don't think I hate them... as much as the Patriots... There was something about Belichick that was so much more hateable than Andy [Reid]... Even Mahomes, who has some nozzle in him, he's not awful.”
  —Peter Rosenberg (28:47)

On Being a Fan of Powerhouse Teams (29:28–31:21)

• Hosts reflect on what it's like to root for a team that's always good (Rosenberg recalls Islanders and Yankees childhood, LaGreca laments never having that experience).
• Discussion on how football dynasties are even rarer than in hockey due to modern salary caps.

Why Do Some Teams Sustain Winning? (31:21–33:33)

• Consensus: The secret sauce is superstar quarterback + coach.
• Both Patriots and Chiefs “know when to move on” from fading players before they decline—never handcuff the cap for sentimentality.
• Tom Brady “taking less” helped sustain the Patriots dynasty.

Are the Patriots or Chiefs More Annoying? (33:33–34:38)

• Hahn: Finds Chiefs more annoying due to media overexposure (Mahomes/Reid in commercials) and because Giants beat the Patriots.
• Rosenberg: The Chiefs’ continuous success is “nirvana for a sports fan.”

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4. Chiefs Analysis & Mahomes’ Genius (34:38–38:00)

• Deep-dive into Patrick Mahomes’ “Spidey sense” and processing: “No one's better at going through progressions and finding the open person.”
• The hosts marvel at Mahomes’ uncanny play sense and discuss Travis Kelce’s possible slow decline (“It’s time—if he wants to end it while still being good, it’s time” – Rosenberg).
• Creating the term “Jabroni Land” for post-prime career limbo.

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5. Odds & Ends: Betting Bragging Rights and Quarterbacks Carousel (40:13–49:59)

• Alan Hahn bragging about a 12-1 week against the NFL spread, to much amazement.
• Segment on NFL QB evaluation, focusing on Marcus Mariota as a case of developmental unpredictability.
• Brief discussion on how teams/media/analysts are too quick to write off young quarterbacks.

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6. Local Sports Update (44:09–46:20)

• Next Knicks, Rangers, Devils, Islanders, and NYCFC matches previewed.
• Tease for later Knicks-Giannis discussion; notes from Mel Kiper Jr. warning Jets fans that the next QB draft class may be thin.

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Notable Quotes & Exchanges

• Mike Vaccaro on searching for the origin of “crapshoot”:

  "About 200 stories since 1998... and he's never once used that term, at least [not] in print. ... But he's never actually said it." (05:10)

• Alan Hahn on the Yankees’ fallibility:

  “Maybe the Yankees just forgot how to win. Or maybe Cashman isn't bringing in winning players, because it seems like other organizations... know how to work it.” (10:18)

• Mike Vaccaro on building teams for October:

  “If you’re good enough, you probably insulate yourself from allowing the crapshoot to invade.” (11:31)

• Peter Rosenberg on sustained success:

  "Will I ever get to know what it's like to just root for a team that's always good? Like, what is it like year after year?" (29:28)

• Don LaGreca defining 'Jabroni Land' for aging players:

  “He could stick around and start sliding into Jabroni Land, but if he wants to retire and still look like 87... No one wants the Kelsey 87 Panthers jersey.” (37:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:41 | Host banter, nickname conversation | | 02:07 | Mike Vaccaro joins the show | | 04:40 | Yankees ‘crapshoot’ debate, origins and context | | 07:51 | Cashman 2021 audio clip on playoffs | | 10:18 | Yankees' inability to “find the formula” | | 12:44 | Roster makeup, Boone’s impact | | 14:14 | Dodgers' formula vs Yankees’ power game | | 15:28 | Judge vs Ohtani, MVP debate | | 18:30 | Importance of stars like Ohtani and Judge for baseball | | 24:43 | “Talk About It Tuesday”: NFL officiating venting | | 28:47 | Chiefs vs Patriots supremacy hate | | 31:21 | Secret to NFL dynasty (QB + coach + timing) | | 34:38 | Chiefs breakdown, Mahomes’ skillset | | 37:19 | Travis Kelce and the definition of “Jabroni Land” | | 40:13 | Hahn’s 12-1 betting week, parlay talk | | 46:20 | Mel Kiper's QB draft class warning, Jets QB pain | | 49:59 | Short reflections on QB development, closing banter |

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Tone & Style

The banter is energetic, playful, and sarcastic, with seamless transitions from the serious (Yankees organizational philosophy) to the informal and comedic (sports nicknames, therapy ads, “Jabroni Land,” venting about officiating). Each host brings their signature—Rosenberg’s exasperated fandom, Hahn’s measured analysis, and Don’s dry wit—to the hour.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode stands out for its blend of sports journalism sleuthing (Vaccaro on the “crapshoot”), honest assessment of New York sports futility, and broader philosophical musings on what it means to be a fan—both of perpetual winners and lovable losers. Listeners are treated to in-depth debate, genuine catharsis, and the reliable comfort of seasoned voices who understand New York sports—and sports pain—in their bones.

Transcript

[Don LaGreca]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Now I don't know if you've heard.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month.

[Don LaGreca]

But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not.

[Don LaGreca]

It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required.

[Don LaGreca]

New customer offer first three months only.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See mintmobile.com this is the Han Han at Rosenberg podcast.

[Don LaGreca]

That sounds like heaven to me. Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New.

[Peter Rosenberg]

York app and your smart speakers. 402 in the big city with Don Lagreca and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn. 800-919-3776 is the number for your calls that we will get back to. Peter and I are having a very lively conversation during that break and we just were like, oh, we have a show.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, totally forgot. Yeah, you're missing out on some big conversations.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, these are actually Don, we do miss you this week, you being away because we've had some. Well, we've had some deep conversations.

[Alan Hahn]

Nothing airworthy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, definitely.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, no air worthy. Certainly air appropriate.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, it would be worth.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You think it'd be worthy?

[Don LaGreca]

I think it would do quite well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It would do. Really?

[Alan Hahn]

I on the break, man, I could be on speaker.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It would do. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

You have the technology.

[Don LaGreca]

That's true.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, I love you. You on speakers. Rough.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'S just. Yeah, it's, it's, it's not the same.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No offense.

[Don LaGreca]

No, it's not the same as real Don.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. So you just do without.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, in this case. Yeah, I guess in this case that is what happens.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You say some Don or no Don's better. You know what it's like?

[Don LaGreca]

Listen, that it's the hard part about being the guy who's off doing exciting things is that you know, being removed has its downsides. But I'll fill you in, don't you worry.

[Alan Hahn]

Awesome.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In the meantime, let's bring in our next guest. Our first guest of the show. He is an award winning columnist. He is to me, I believe he's the voice of New York sports. He's getting a big as a common thought. This is one of my favorite. Well, this is one of my favorite people to read.

[Don LaGreca]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the great Mike Focaro, he's joins us right now.

[Don LaGreca]

That's your ace.

[Mike Vaccaro]

What's happening back.

[Don LaGreca]

Alan?

[Mike Vaccaro]

You're gonna make me blush after that, but thank you very much.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, well deserved.

[Don LaGreca]

Mike, real quick, do you get a lot of vac? Because Alan throws out a lot of loose.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here we go.

[Don LaGreca]

He throws out a lot of loose nicknames. I just want to know if vac is really a thing.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Peter, I've been. I've been Vac since I was 22 years old.

[Don LaGreca]

All right?

[Mike Vaccaro]

I think most people. I think a lot of people might say, you know, what's Vax? First name? And they say, well, vak.

[Don LaGreca]

All right, okay, duly noted.

[Mike Vaccaro]

I think I lost Mike a long time ago.

[Don LaGreca]

All right, Perf.

[Peter Rosenberg]

These guys kill me for this thing, but it's. You know. By the way, Steve Gelb sent me a screenshot of a text he got in his group from Hernandez, Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling. And they were calling him Gelbsy.

[Don LaGreca]

Really?

[Peter Rosenberg]

In the chat, he's going, proof. They would kill the fact they're killing me because I called them Gelbsy. They're like, oh, oh, you're.

[Mike Vaccaro]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you that close to him that you call him Gelbs? I'm like, what's his nickname?

[Alan Hahn]

It's too close. It's the player. Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They don't love this.

[Alan Hahn]

But, Mike, the players sometimes throw those things out. So Keith and Ron can do that. Allen shouldn't be allowed.

[Don LaGreca]

Allen was a great high school and College, Division 3 college basketball player.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Even though he played for St. Anthony's you know what's funny, guys? Along those lines, my favorite story for nickname is that Howard Johnson became known as the Sheik one time. And how did he become known as the Sheik? Because, you know, his nickname was obviously going to be Hojo because of his name.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Then it became Hodge. And because baseball players always do this, he became Haji Ali.

[Alan Hahn]

Haji.

[Mike Vaccaro]

And there wasn't even a giant back in the day. So for a while in the late 80s, the Howard Johnson, Dictators and Sheik.

[Don LaGreca]

That's amazing.

[Mike Vaccaro]

The greatest nickname development of all time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's actually a good. That's a good book to do. Not to give you any more book ideas, but that'd be a good one. Hey, by the way, did you happen to see Chaminade's Homecoming just throwing it out there?

[Mike Vaccaro]

I did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I also. But I did see. I did see a story that you didn't write, but you were mentioned in because you helped do some research on. I believe it was a Dan Martin vehicle.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Story about. About, you know, because. Because all of us, you know, and I mean by us, everyone in the media, everyone in New York kind of attributes or kind of, you know, put the whole crapshoot quote into Brian Cashman's mouth, which is funny, because after a while you just assume that's true. And so Danny had a great idea. He said, you know, he knows that I have access to a lot of archives and stuff. So he said, if you get a minute, can you just see if he's ever actually said it? And I said, that sounds like a great idea. And so I did. I mean, I literally, you know, came up with about 200 stories since 1998, and all the New York papers and all the primary, you know, websites that had Brian Cashman and the word crapshoot in it. And he's never once used that term, at least. No, no, no. Maybe he has on the radio or someplace where it isn't, you know. You know, actually, you know, down in print, but he's never actually said it. You know, good for Danny. He actually reached out to Brian and Brian said, I didn't think I did, but, you know, you just never know. And, you know, the one thing he did say, because, you know, of all these stories, what time he did you talk about how random the playoffs can be, which is essentially the same sentiment.

[Alan Hahn]

Exactly.

[Mike Vaccaro]

So I guess. So I guess the same idea applies. But, yeah, he's never actually said the word crapshoot, which I think is funny. Obviously, Billy Bean is the guy who's the inventor of that, and Joe Tory co opted it a lot when he was the manager of the Yankees. But as far as we know, Brian Cashman has never said it.

[Alan Hahn]

And the reason this came up was because when I was talking to Alan this morning, I said, you know, the Dodgers are on their way to winning their third championship in six years, and the Giants won three, and the Red Sox have multiple championships, Astros. So forget this whole crapshoot thing. And then he brought up the work that you had done, that Cashman never was quoted in saying it, but is it fair that at least the theme from the organization, whether it's Hal, Brian, in whatever words, whether it's random or some kind of description at least, is shooting around the perimeter of them believing it's still a crapshoot.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Yeah, because, you know, it's funny, Don, one of the examples I found was actually Hal Steinberger saying, well, you know, as Cash says, it's a crapshoot. Of course we know that cast never said it. But, you know, Even in House Steinbrenner's mind, you know, that's kind of like, you know, one of the things that, that Cash probably says. So, yeah, it's definitely, I look, I, I think it's definitely a way that the Yankees try and explain both to themselves and to their public, how they can be in the playoffs every year, which should be lauded and yet not win a championship since 2009, which obviously is problematic, especially when you have the kind of ambitions every year that the Yankees do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So Anthony Pucic, our producer, did some research because as you said, you didn't find any print. You went to LexisNexis, you went to Newspapers.com, you did all the research to find a quote attributed that would have been in print and you couldn't find that. But we have found some things that, as Peter would say, might be crapshoot A Jace. So here's an example. This is from the old Michael K Show, August of 2021 Talk Brian Cashman talking about how anything can happen in the playoffs. So vak listen with your discerning ear and tell me if you hear something similar every year.

[Michael Kay]

Michael, if you can get yourself in the postseason, you're a World Series contender and that's what it's all about. October is a completely different race than the six month grind of a regular season. So once you punch that ticket, you're in. Anybody who hits their stride at the right time there can run the table. The first goal is to find a way to get in, whether it's a wild card. Obviously, optimally you want to win the division, but if you can't and you're forced to go the wild card route, you know, it is what it is. Teams have gone on through the wild card to win a World Series 2 now, several times over. So mission one is to get in. And then after that it's, they compare and say who's this and who's the that and all that and who's the most likely to win versus not. But we've seen time and time again, obviously baseball is a very difficult sport and if you can play your best baseball at the right time, then you know it can carry you for that month. And so we just got to get ourselves in so we can take our shot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, we all know that Bean was like to the point with his quotes. Cash, as we know, can be a little bit long winded. Is that just a long winded way of saying it's a crapshoot?

[Mike Vaccaro]

Yeah, I think so. You know, look, I mean I don't want to pretend like I can crawl into Brian Cashman's brain and explain, but I think what probably has happened, he probably, probably believes it's a crapshoot. You know, all the things. The one quote that I mentioned, that quote that you just, that you just played, you know, they're essentially hinting at the same thing. I actually think that, you know, we may not remember this, but toward the end, you know, Tory used that every year. And by the time he was fired, he was. That was like the one thing people got on him about was, like, relying on the whole crapshoot thing to explain away why the Yankees lost in 2005 and 2006 and 2007, and so he got roundly criticized for it. It would not surprise me if Brian took note of that in those days and said, you know what? You know, one thing I'm never going to say, I'm never going to say the word crapshoot, even if I think it's a crapshoot, because it's a kind of loaded word that people don't want to hear, you know, especially when you're talking about the Yankees and look, I mean, and the Dodgers, you know, God bless them. I mean, they've been able to survive the last couple years was. I forget, they were on the ropes last year against the Padres. You know, they maybe, if the pitcher doesn't make that terrible throw in the Philly series, who knows what happens if they have to go back and win in Philadelphia. So, you know, they've actually, you know, experienced the crouch shooting. You know, they just actually had the winning. I'm not a craps player. So whatever the winning dice hand would be, they've actually come up with that. So it's, it's, you know, I think it's true, but it's also something I understand that fans have grown tired of hearing.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, when you don't have the mojo, it's a crapshoot. When you have the mojo, it's by design. Like you just mentioned about, they almost lost to the Padres, but didn't. They knew how to fight through that. You know, right now, the team that wins all the time, the Florida Panthers, you know, they were down two nothing in a series last year and down in game three, found a way to win. Kansas City won a Super bowl. Having to win two games on the road when it looked like their regular season wasn't all that, and then they found it later on. So is it just a case of Mike, that maybe the Yankees just forgot how to Win. Or maybe Cashman isn't bringing in winning players because it seems like other organizations, when they find the formula, they know how to work it. And it's been a long time since the Yankees have had that formula.

[Mike Vaccaro]

And here's the thing, guys, is that, you know, let's not forget that one of the amazing things about that Yankee, you know, dynasty from 96 to 2003, three championships in four years, they never played in game seven, and I think only twice they played a game five. I'm pretty sure that's right. Maybe he's only once, because I know they played game five in 2000. I think it was once. Whatever. I mean, you know, so. So they. They never put themselves in position to be victimized by the crapshoot.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Mike Vaccaro]

I mean, and I think that that tells you what kind of team that was. And I think that, look, if you're good enough, you know, you probably insulate yourself from allowing the crapshoot to invade. I mean, you know, I mean, last night sure felt like the crapshoot for the Dodgers, and yet they win today with Ohtani in the mound, they're going to feel like a pretty good short bet to win the World Series again. And, you know, really come close to being victimized by the whole randomness of it. I mean, I think if you're like. I think if you're a good enough team, I think you're probably going to be able to insulate yourself from the randomness of the postseason. I get it. Baseball isn't like other sports where it's hard to predict and all this stuff, but, you know, there is a certain element to that Yankees team from the. One of those championships I think we have to keep remembering is that they never allowed themselves to be victimized by the crapshoot. And, you know, I think there's a lot to be said for keeping coming alive when you're able to do that.

[Don LaGreca]

Do you just. Just for, like, your observations, watching this team and being around them, do you think there's a version of this team that if Aaron Boone were able to, you know, fully manage the way he would want to, that there could be different results, or ultimately, would him, left to his own devices, come somewhat close to how this team operates anyway?

[Mike Vaccaro]

Yeah, I think it's the last one, Peter, to be honest with you. I just, you know, I think. I think it kind of goes to the makeup of the team. I just think that that's, you know, part of the reason why we see what we see in the years where they're not able to, you know, kind of get it done. And you also remember one of the impressive things to me about last year's team was that, you know, the first two rounds they took care of business, when they were able to take care of business against the Royals and against the Guardians, and of course, the Dodgers are a whole different animal. But I do think that, you know, again, you know, I hate to keep referencing it when you talk about the dynasty, things that made them different, you just look at the, at the makeup of those players, and those are guys who were just grim and gritty and relentless, and it was all about, you know, getting, you know, getting the 27 outs, and that was all that mattered. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter to these guys, but I just think that the makeup is different, and I think maybe that might explain why they're more prone to having a stumble or two in October. In October, all you need is a stumble or two and you can put yourself in trouble.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mike, if we look at the Dodgers now, and I know Don referenced this sort of like, again, that, that, that if they win this one, that's three and six, that's a, you know, you're getting into that pseudo dynasty kind of level. But it, watching them yesterday, yeah, that was a dramatic game on many levels, with dramatic pitching performances, defense, all the parts of the game that you love. But on top of it, how did they score the majority of their runs? With the home run.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And so that's kind of, if I'm not mistaken, the formula that the Yankees have been following forever has always been that to just overpower your opponent, they have a lineup that can do that. So could you just say it's, it's not the system that doesn't work, it's that the Dodgers pick better players than the Yankees do to, to, to execute.

[Mike Vaccaro]

I mean, sure, I think fundamentally that's exactly the point, Alan, to be honest with you. I mean, look, I mean, Judge is as good as anybody on the planet. Not named Otan. You know, I'm not going to sit here and criticize, you know, Bellinger, who's a great player. I love watching him play. Is he Freddie Freeman? I'm not sure. You would probably say that you would give the check mark to the Bellinger in that regard. Right. You go down and down the lineup. I mean, the fact of the matter is the Yankees don't have a player like Mickey Betts, you know, who not only has the, the Dodger championship on his resume, but also went for the Red Sox. So, you know, I, I think that's, that's exactly right. And you know, you're looking at championship teams. What makes them so special, especially baseball, is that they have a bunch of guys who are like minded and who were able to perform and do what they do during the regular season exactly the same way in the postseason. And I think that's really what the Dodgers do better than anybody right now.

[Alan Hahn]

Talking to Mike Vacara from the post here on Don Han and Rosenberg. The other great debate we always have is who would you rather have Judge or Ohtani? And Yankee fans all say Judge because he's an A plus defender. And Ohtani, we haven't really seen the unicorn on full display with his pitching abilities. But does this postseason put that argument to bed? And is there a general manager in baseball that would pick Judge over Ohtani?

[Mike Vaccaro]

I don't know that it puts the bed, but it certainly makes the Ohtani argument a lot stronger. Just because of the pitching element. Because that, you know, you use the word unicorn, it's right. I mean, you know, I bet if Aaron Judge wanted to pitch, he could probably be a middling pitcher, which is, you know, fine. Not a lot of people can be a big league pitcher. I mean, but Ohtani is a guy, you know, he had that game last week, we had three home runs and 10 strikeouts. I mean, that's just, it's almost hard to put your put to wrap your brain around it because it's just never happened before. But I'll say this though, like, the problem is when you do that, it almost feels like you're minimizing what Aaron Judge is. And we guys, we've all watched him play just about every game he's played since 2017. And it's just an amazing treat to watch. I mean, he's that good, you know, and there was a point that's year where you wondered if he was going to be able to hit 60 homers and hit 400. Now he didn't do that. But the fact of the matter is that when he's playing at his best, he makes you think about things that just are supposed to be impossible. He just doesn't pitch. So I mean, I think that, you know, I guess you do have to give that to Ohtani only because of the pitching element. And my gosh, if he's ever able to put together a full season of 30 starts, you know, and if he ever wins the so young and the MVP because, because of the two elements of his game, I mean, it's going to be just, you know, you're just never going to be able to top that. But look, I mean, I'm not a guy who's going to tell you that you shouldn't pick Judge because I'm around him. I. Not only. I see not only what he does on the field, but, you know, what he means to this team and to his teammates. So it's a. It's a. It's a great argument to have. I love it. You know, it's. It's one of those things that could have all day, but, you know, when you see what Ohtani does, it really does make you shake your head because, my gosh, you're not only having, you know, it's like being the best heart surgeon in the world and also the best dentist. You shouldn't. Those skills shouldn't translate. And yet they do. And until Tony's case, they do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It also is good for the sport when you can have two players of this magnitude, generational magnitude, and the argument of which one is better, and it's east coast and west coast, it's. It's still. It's good for baseball. But if Ohtani gives you performance tonight, like you mentioned, that Game 3 against the brewers where he just was. He did everything, if he has anything close to that, never mind he doesn't have to swing a bat. They could, they could walk him intentionally each time. But if he gives you a strong pitching performance, knowing his bullpen is exhausted, where they needed it most, I mean, he's like, they win the World Series, he's easily the mvp. And that's one of the great postseasons anyone's ever had in the history of the sport.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Yeah, that's undisputed. And, you know, you talk about what's good for baseball. I mean, I think it's wonderful for baseball that Ohtani is rising to this level in the postseason, you know, the way he has. I mean, that's great for baseball. I mean, and if you like baseball, you do root for baseball as much as anything, especially if you don't have a dog in the hunt anymore. You know, I think. I think Yankees fans and Mets fans can both agree that they're going to root for baseball more than they're going to root for any of the teams in the Series. And, you know, in the subset of that, I mean, I think, was it great for baseball that you have a debate, a legitimate debate, on who's the American League mvp, Raleigh or Judge? I mean, I would pick Judge, but. But, I mean, I think it's a fair debate and it's wonderful to have that kind of debate. You know, that's, that's what's good for the game and the chatter that's going to surround the series. That's why I kind of hope, I hope the Blue Jays get back into it. I mean, maybe they don't care who wins the series. I mean, the way the series has been played so far and the way game three was played, you just wish for this to be at least a six game series. So it's a, it's, it's a representative series. If it turns out to be a five game series, you know, you'll be able to kind of put an asterisk on and say, yeah, well, the games are nice, but the Dodgers are dominant. So. But yeah, you know, I think all of us root for baseball at some point because you all like it. So that's the, that's the main rooting interest for a lot of us, I think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's always good to talk to you, my man. Thanks for clearing up all the cashmen stuff. We have used it a lot. We always want to be accurate, of course. So we figure let's get to the bottom of it and have you on. That's why you're one of the best.

[Don LaGreca]

Thanks for making time, man.

[Alan Hahn]

Thank you.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Great talking to you guys. Thanks a lot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, Mike Picaro again. Hey guys. Every aspect of your business, from the most mundane to the most complex, will operate orders of magnitude better and faster. When you add artificial intelligence, AI is literally a race to the top. Companies that engage AI first will win. Will that be you or your competitors? Thrive Managed AI is your advantage over all your competitors. Founded by tech powerhouses, Thrive partners with you on smart and secure AI strategy for your business. Then they deploy and manage it for you. Imagine AI solutions working across every part of your business. Automating support, powering chatbots, analyzing competitors, even managing billing, collections and orders. Now that's just a taste of what Thrive Managed AI can help you achieve. It makes your talented team even better by letting them focus on what they do best. The race to the top will be won by those who engage Thrive Managed AI first. That needs to be you. Go to thrive next gen.com espn and get started with a complimentary strategy consultation. That's thrive nextgen.com ESPN thrivenextgen.com ESPN so what do we do, Don? Do we now just take that out of our lexicon, the crapshoot line and attributing it to cashmere? How do we do this.

[Alan Hahn]

I think he nailed it because Tory used it so much. I think Brian made a conscious effort never to say it, but I think there's enough evidence that he still believes it. He's just smart enough not to get tagged with the quote. But I still think the philosophy from the organization is it's a different animal in the postseason, but there's other teams that are showing you that it's not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he's just talking around it?

[Alan Hahn]

I think he's talking around it, yes. That's my opinion.

[Don LaGreca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don LaGreca]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want.

[Don LaGreca]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes you just can't take it anymore.

[Don LaGreca]

This is and let's Talk About It.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Tuesday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

With Don Hahn and Rosenberg. Sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Don LaGreca]

All right guys, time for let's Talk About It Tuesday. Sponsored by Better Help. Mental health is health. Sure you, you guys know where I'm going to go here, but it needs to be said.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Don LaGreca]

No matter what happened yesterday, it's, it's clear the commanders were going to lose to the Chiefs. Too many mistakes. You knew the second on the first drive that the ball bounced off Debo's face after they marched right down the field. You just know you've been watching football. How long you been watching it?

[Alan Hahn]

40 years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

40?

[Don LaGreca]

You've been watching football for over 40 years. You know, were you watching live at that point?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don LaGreca]

They march right down the field. You're an 11 point dog. You march right down the field. You throw the ball off someone's face mask who never drops the ball and you get an interception. I know at that point this is going to be tough sledding now. So I realize outmatched lost the game for a variety of reasons, but that does change that. I couldn't get Don Lagreca out of my head yesterday. Really, because I'm not kidding. And guys, you know, if you're on the, in the YouTube chat and you can start say whatever you want, you can even admit as much as you want to make fun of me and say I'm a commander boy, whatever. Every play where there's some sort of subjectiveness of the referees, some level of subjectivity exists. Don, the default every time is Chiefs. If there's a. If the Commanders have the ball and they need 10 yards and they make it 9 yards and 11 and a half inches, the call on the field is short. Now the burden of proof is the other way. Exact opposite. If the Chiefs have the ball every time. Do you notice there were two plays in a row where the Commanders caught potential touchdowns, both immediately, including the second one, which with review was a pretty clear touchdown by Terry McLaurin on the field, out of bounds. Listen, I don't agree with the people who go crazy full bore and say the league is completely rigged. I think it's more that over time, referees, like everybody else, get used to a team being good and being right and being in the right position. And as a result, they start getting a lot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know if you saw something I call momentum officiated.

[Don LaGreca]

That's a great way of putting. And this has been last. This is seven year momentum officiating.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This has existed for a long time in various sports. Oh, yeah, there's a momentum officiating that just happens. I think it's a human nature.

[Don LaGreca]

Did you see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think they realize they're doing.

[Don LaGreca]

Did you guys see when Mahomes got tossed to the ground in the end zone how excited the ref was to pull that flag out to punish like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I did not look at the ref.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, the joke. You just watch the way he grabs that. I thought you were gonna take a gun in the holster, baby. He could not wait. Oh, you don't do that. Not to Patrick Mahomes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I thought he was gonna get in there and protect him on the ground, you know, get off him.

[Kevin Clark]

And then.

[Don LaGreca]

And then to find out God's in on it. That's the part that I think's troubling.

[Peter Rosenberg]

God's in it.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Did you hear the stat yesterday? They. The Chiefs have eight fumbles this year. Yeah, they've recovered all eight.

[Alan Hahn]

That's hard to do.

[Don LaGreca]

That doesn't happen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's pretty amazing.

[Don LaGreca]

God, you too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The ball just bounces away from you. Sometimes it just happens. It has. Why the ball's shaped like that.

[Alan Hahn]

You would think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you can't predict where it's going.

[Don LaGreca]

So I just. It's just, you know, this is. I don't think I hate them. You asked the question earlier, Don, and I thought it was a great question. Who do I hate more, the Chiefs or the Patriots? Because, you know, I still have a chip on my shoulder from being one of the other teams who had to survive in this league while the Patriots Were the Patriots. And I guess I probably hate them more because there was something about Belichick that was so much more hateable than Andy. Andy Reid's not a hateable guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don LaGreca]

He likes nuggies, Even Mahomes, who has some nozzle in him. He's not awful. It's just a frustrating thing to play against a team that's so good, they reload and continue to be good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But don't the great teams all have that. What, feels like they get every break and every call, that whole thing? Right?

[Don LaGreca]

Well, yeah, because you're good for long enough. You're consistent for long enough. Lucky.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. You expect it. Like, it just feels like the teams that have sustained success over a period of time in any generation of a sport, it just always feels like they just get every bounce, every call, every. Every break. I just.

[Don LaGreca]

Will I ever. And this is something that you can relate to me on this, if you're a listener. What. No matter who your team is. Will I ever get to know what it's like to just root for a team that's always good? Like, what is it like year after year in football? It is so hard to be good over the course of a season, let alone every year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, I've had that twice in my life.

[Don LaGreca]

You did get to have it. Yeah. You really did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I was very young the first.

[Don LaGreca]

Time, but that's a good one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's the best time to really enjoy it because you're too naive to think of anything negative or worry. You just expect to win every night.

[Don LaGreca]

But the Yankee one's pretty good, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Yankee one was very good, but there was the heartbreak in the middle of it, of losing to Cleveland. But the Islanders run, and I was age 10 to 15, 10 to 14.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. That you might have. That might have cost you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You gotta be kidding.

[Don LaGreca]

That might be why you never get anything else in your life. It was that nice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Probably like this. This is my namath. Like this. I sold my soul. I had nothing to do with it.

[Don LaGreca]

But what.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just caught on at the right time. And it was. It literally, year after year, you're like, oh, we're gonna win. Oh, we're gonna win. And they did. They would go to the finals and sweep who? Whatever. Poor. Like this. This doesn't matter who. The Minnesota North Stars.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Take them out in five.

[Don LaGreca]

But, I mean, the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Canucks cute jerseys.

[Don LaGreca]

Sweep, by the way. Respectfully, to hockey, though, football is even crazier. Like, managing to be able to put it together year after year in football.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Modern day, yes. That's what's different about back then. They could. No one could have afforded to keep a team like that together for five years the way they did because it's just. It's impossible. There was no cap and no one got paid the way they do now. But I'm just saying, as far as mentally, like you said, will I ever. It is an unbelievably just comfortable position and it's the most enjoyable thing ever because the Chiefs, it's nirvana for a sports fan.

[Alan Hahn]

The Chiefs and the Patriots. The secret sauce in the NFL is they got the quarterback and they got the coach. Because if you take a look at the rosters of both the Patriots and the Chiefs in their dynasty runs with the exception of the perfect season for the Patriots or Randy Moss. That not. Not all time great players up and down the way you would think a team with a dynasty would like. They didn't keep things intact. They had different layers of defense and offense. The Chiefs have changed a lot of different players over the years. Kelsey's not the same. You know, Schuster comes in, he's contributing. It's really just about getting great quarterback play and great coach, isn't it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like four guys that are really the consistent pieces. Right. Chris Jones, Kelsey Mahomes, Andy Reid and.

[Alan Hahn]

Those are maybe Spaghettians, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. Like everybody else has changed as much as anyone else. Like. And the Patriots. The thing about the Patriots run that everybody talked about was while you had the coach and the quarterback, what was. Do you remember, Don? What was the thing that was said about the Patriots? Why they were so smart is they would never wait for a player to fall off. They would move on from you right before you were done. And then wherever you went, they thought they were getting, oh, we're getting a Super bowl champ and a leader. And it's like, nope, nothing left. No tread on the tire. Like they knew when to move on. They didn't get stuck into. They got. I feel. I feel compelled to give you this big extension even though it's going to put us in cap hell. They. They never did that.

[Don LaGreca]

That's the other. That's the other secret. It really is knowing when to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Tom took less.

[Don LaGreca]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It helps.

[Alan Hahn]

Tom took less. And then you get players that take less because they want to be a part of the winning. Yep. So, you know, Junior Seau goes to New England because he wants to win a ring, you know, like so that certainly does help. I found the Patriots to be less annoying than the Chiefs. Peter. Maybe that's because The Giants beat the Patriots twice. But also part of what makes the Chiefs irritating is, is that Mahomes and Reed are out there. They're in every commercial. The Patriots really didn't do a lot during their run. Belichick never did anything. You know, occasionally Tom would do a, A commercial. But they, they just seem less annoying. But I think most of it's because the Giants beat them.

[Don LaGreca]

So that's. It's almost like hard for you to weigh in on this.

[Alan Hahn]

It is hard.

[Don LaGreca]

Like you, you literally embarrass them. You have the two biggest. You almost got to love the Patriots because they brought the best memories for you. And the Giants ended up looking better than they've ever looked in history thanks to beating the Patriots. So you have like a positive association. All I have is a play them every few years, get throttled, keep moving and watch them dominate the league. So it's, it's. Which is I guess where you're at more with the Chiefs. So it does make more sense in this case. But you're right, you know, are we going to think of Pacheco as being like some all time player? No, but when you watch him in the offense now that the Chiefs run, it looks absolutely unstoppable and you know, like the game felt really even until the Chiefs get a lead. And then when Spagnola has a lead to play with, all of a sudden that defense goes up to a completely different level. You got to stay even with the Chiefs and keep their defense honest. The second they feel they can pin their ears back and come after you, especially if you're Marcus Mariota, respectfully, who was game. It's.

[Kevin Clark]

It's.

[Don LaGreca]

You can't do it. It's just, it's just too much. The Chiefs of the Macarena. The Chiefs are the Macarena, Don.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I told you.

[Don LaGreca]

Nothing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's nothing redeeming about them though. No, you don't find anything.

[Don LaGreca]

The football, of course. I mean, listen, Mahomes is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's a maestro.

[Don LaGreca]

No, he's what they. They ran a gimmick. They ran their facocta gimmick last night in the game that normally such a waste.

[Alan Hahn]

Normal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that the one that he flicked it?

[Don LaGreca]

No, no, the vision. I mean, I mean the ESPN gimmick where they show where his. Where he's looking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

And normally I don't care about that, but they did it yesterday and they show on one play the different directions his head goes, where you can see him looking at receivers. No one. There's not Another quarterback in the league who looks at the field the way Mahomes does. He sees what every receiver does on every play. So he's, guess what, guys? On 90% of football plays, someone's open. The defense has an impossible job. The question is, is your quarterback good enough and able to go through progressions well enough to find the open person? And no one's better at it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would think one of his special gifts as a quarterback is his spidey sense.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, some of the great spidey sense we've ever seen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, you know, the tingling of, okay, the pocket's closing. I got to move. There's. It's uncanny that because you're right, his eyes never go on what's happening in front of him. Never. He never is looking at once the ball snapped, of course, what any of the defensive line is doing or how close anybody is. He has this ridiculous sixth sense that he can just feel when, I got to get out of here. I got to get out of here. He's never. He's never stuck like that because his eyes are always down the field and he's scanning to not only moving defenders, but just seeing, watching something and anticipating it. But that little flick pass that he can throw sometimes and the on target, like the rope accurate.

[Don LaGreca]

The rope that he threw to Kelsey in the end zone. And also, isn't it funny when a team goes on to win a game, storylines change. Right. And Kelsey ended up getting a couple of just wide open passes where the commanders did what they've done all year, which is have a defensive breakdown and someone's wide open. But if that game stays close, we're talking about the fact that first. The second time this year, Travis Kelsey handed an interception to the other team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

And it ends up going away. Gets a TD later. But, like, I'm sorry, Travis Kelsey of old isn't just having balls bounce off his hands up into the air to be taken by another.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You see with Kelsey that while he's still very useful, it's time.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

If he wants to end it while still being good, it's time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's like, you could see it. Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

He could stick around and start sliding into jabroni land, but if he wants to retire and still look like 87, yeah. I would say we're probably jabroni land.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, what is.

[Alan Hahn]

What is.

[Don LaGreca]

It's a land of gibroni.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What does it look like? Give me an example.

[Don LaGreca]

Like, who's there?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, like, give me an example. Like, like, what's a day in gibroni.

[Don LaGreca]

Land, for example, he's a tight end, right? So think of like basically every tight end, I don't know, the Giants of Jets the last decade. He doesn't want to go there, is what I'm saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Gotcha.

[Don LaGreca]

You know what I'm saying?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He doesn't want to put on a jersey that people go, oh, he played for them. Like, you don't want that.

[Don LaGreca]

That's Jabroni land.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's Jabroni land. You don't want to be in Jabroni.

[Don LaGreca]

No one wants the Kelsey 87 Panthers jersey, but that's just. That happened.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's like Namath Rams jersey.

[Don LaGreca]

And by the way, they're in the perfect spot because I would say right now it looks like they should get one more and it should be this year. Even though I said it was over.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You guys would be so happy, wouldn't you, come February, if we're talking about this Eagles.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, you kidding me?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, more Eagles.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm tired of them playing in every big game. I'm tired of during the commercials. I've got to see Reed full Maruski. I'm done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're going to get more of that. I'm not done, though, telling you about Bath Fitter.

[Don LaGreca]

Please do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, because as I told you, we updated a bath in our house and we converted a tub to a shower. They do that. Not just the tub. They don't just cover up the tub and clean all that up. They can rip out the tub and put in this gorgeous shower. That's what we did. My sister liked it, so she said, you know what? I have a tub I don't like. I want to update my bath. So she went through a unique permafit solution for a watertight fit, and she got that done, and we're both very happy. They send a bath for a consultant that takes you through the process free in home consultation. Pick out style, color, all the specifics, accessories, and you can update your bath customized the way you wanted it. Now, listen, if there's a time to do it, it's now. No money down, no payments, no interest for 18 months. That takes you to April of 2027, everybody. So if it's time to update a bath, do it now. It's a permanent solution. They are the leader in bathroom renovation. It's done in one day, durable, easy to clean, no demolition, lower cost than a replacement. Don't go with the new guys that are saying, oh, we do that too, but they're not the experts. And you know what else they don't do lifetime guarantee. That means it'll last a lifetime. That's the guarantee. You can trust the Bath Fitter team like we did. Start designing your bath [e-mail] there's only one Bath Fitter now.

[Don LaGreca]

I also. I also would like to thank everyone for participating. Let's talk about it Tuesday. Sponsored by better help. Visit betterhelp.com timeout today for 10% off your first month of therapy. Don, did you. Did I take all the talk about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did you have a talk about it?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah. It's like. That's like three straight weeks.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

And I got nothing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, he wants to talk about that.

[Don LaGreca]

Go ahead. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

No, please, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Want to do it on the other side?

[Alan Hahn]

No. It's over.

[Don LaGreca]

But he's moving on.

[Alan Hahn]

I did notice that.

[Don LaGreca]

He's all set.

[Alan Hahn]

I got to do my daily news picks.

[Don LaGreca]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. So I was. I was doing them and they gave my the standings. I'm now in first place. Last week I went 12 and one in my picks and that's with the spread.

[Don LaGreca]

Wait, no, Don, no, no, you didn't.

[Alan Hahn]

I went 12 and one. The one loss was my three point play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course it was. Three.

[Alan Hahn]

Three. The Cowboys are my only loss.

[Don LaGreca]

Wait, don, you went 12 and 1.

[Alan Hahn]

Well against spread last week.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's pretty good.

[Don LaGreca]

I've never heard of that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's insane.

[Don LaGreca]

No, I've never. People buy new houses after weeks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is Donnie the Greek we're talking about.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, Donnie. She's Louise.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Now I'm in first place. Pretty cool.

[Don LaGreca]

12 and one against the spread.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. That means he. All right. So he needs to now go on a run to completely take over for. He's in first place.

[Don LaGreca]

He could have hit a seven game parlay that would have made him like. What does 100 bucks get you, Anthony, on like a seven game parlay?

[Mike Vaccaro]

Depends on the odds.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'd be very high though. Yeah. You know what? He wouldn't be on the show with us right now. He'd still be calling Devils.

[Don LaGreca]

You do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You would be still doing the Devils, but you would be long gone from here. Long gone.

[Alan Hahn]

Might have a goodbye show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, so you think you'd be on today? Monday would have been your goodbye show.

[Alan Hahn]

I just didn't. Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, for me came very close. But that's good. You made other people rich, which is kind of nice too.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what we're here for.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I guess.

[Don LaGreca]

So come to DSW for the shoes. Stay for the fun.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because let's be honest.

[Don LaGreca]

If shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different. Good different. Try something that feels like you, you.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Know, the real you.

[Don LaGreca]

And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail] let us surprise you.

[Kevin Clark]

This is Kevin Clark for manscaped look. Being a man doesn't mean skipping self care. I do this show three times a week and every single time I do a little self care beforehand.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay?

[Kevin Clark]

Grooming, the hair, everything. You guys see it. You don't wake up like this. You don't wake up like that. You gotta do. You gotta get the stubble going. You gotta get rid of that awful mustache I had last spring. Listen, I tried. I thought the mustache over the. Over the stubble was a good look.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not a good look.

[Kevin Clark]

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[Don LaGreca]

Talk about stepping up. It's time to level up your game. Introducing the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and the best championship moments.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The electricity is palpable.

[Don LaGreca]

Step up your game. With no annual contract required. It's the ultimate fan experience.

[Alan Hahn]

Level up.

[Don LaGreca]

For More on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com Sign up now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don LaGreca]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you watch want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, game time's brought to you by Telemore Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, go ahead. Yeah, I like when he holds it.

[Don LaGreca]

It's tally time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Knicks in the Bucks coverage immediately follows us right here on 880. That is at 7. The Knicks and the Bucks playing in Milwaukee. Yes, Giannis, I got something on that we can get to a little bit later on. You can hear coverage of the World Series game four on the ESP New York app and following the Knicks coverage on 880. So of course it'll join in progress.

[Alan Hahn]

Once the Knicks somewhere in the 13th.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, right, right. They'll take you. Right, right. Right about the 14th inning. Rangers and the Canucks. That's tonight. Coverage of that game is on 10:50am that starts at 9:30. Don is in Colorado, as you know and he's got the Devils who are on an absolute toot. Eight in a row looking for nine. Looking to sweep a home. And a very bizarre home at home, by the way. Donnie. Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

First time ever Devils and Avalanche played a home on home and home. Last time they were called the Nordiques. Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's when they were in the Quebec.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that's at nine. Islanders and the Bruce. Everybody's playing tonight. Islanders visit the Bruins up in Boston. That's at 7:15.

[Alan Hahn]

Frozen frenzy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh well. That the whole league's playing. But I'm saying just locally we've got almost everybody playing. How about this? Even the NYC FC Don's playoff team. You playoffs. They begin their MLS cup playoff run in Charlotte. That's at 6:45. Tell them or do the original triple distilled, triple blended, triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a telemardu or try the new Telemardu honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying telemardu responsibly. What I tell Anthony I wanted to do here.

[Don LaGreca]

You mentioned a couple things. We mentioned Knickerbockers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

No, not yet.

[Kevin Clark]

No.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't do that here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What I say to you. Because I could go to calls. Very happy to do that.

[Don LaGreca]

But there was something you said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Is it what you originally said that you said?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know.

[Sponsor Voice]

Because it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We don't enough time for the Nick thing. Giannis. I got some. It's very interesting information about Giannis that Nick fans might want to hear. Save that for the five o' clock game.

[Don LaGreca]

Are you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If it's.

[Don LaGreca]

Is it going to be. Is it going to be upsetting information?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it just. It just allows you to settle in on the honest story.

[Don LaGreca]

To dream.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. How about this from Mel Kuiper from DNR this morning.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That if you're a Jets fan and you're looking forward to a big quarterback draft, here's what you got.

[Don LaGreca]

It may end up being just Fernando Mendoza because I've said all along I think Dante Moore and I think that Ty Simpson and Lenora Sellers and Sam Levitt and John Mateer and all these quarterbacks should go back field. Yates said yesterday in our podcast, the First Draft podcast, he had spoken of people in the league that think the intel that they're getting is that those quarterbacks will be going back. Now I haven't heard that in the definitive. I don't think you can be that definitive yet. But Field's hearing that from his sources in the league. We were talking about that with mine the other day and again you look at if it's just Fernando Mendoz, that's one quarter quarterback. I mean maybe in the first round there's going to be one quarterback. That's it for all these quarterback needy teams.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. That's having the first pick that might get them to want to stay in school even more. Just judging on the history.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sorry, necessary. I'll take Marcus Mariota from you there, Pete.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, by the way. Yeah, I, we had that conversation earlier.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I honestly like, first of all, I saw Passionate him last night that I don't. You don't normally see. He was pissed off about something because he got sacked and but just to see that fire. He's been pretty good. He was a number two pick in the draft once. Well, he's had some.

[Don LaGreca]

Frustrates me. That's what frustrates me. I saw a clip today and again I saw it for two seconds. So I don't want to, I don't want to beat up the messenger but well, number one, I couldn't beat him up but number two, it was a quick clip of Canty, I think on TV saying like it's time to go to Shador Sanders. Dylan Gabriel's not an NFL quarterback. I know nothing about Dylan Gabriel but man, I'm sick of us on TV and people in the media having to go. We've seen three games. This is their life dream. They've made it really far. Three games. Not an NFL quarterback. Time to move on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because right now he's not an NFL quarterback right now.

[Don LaGreca]

Maybe he does, but no one ever says it that way. It doesn't sound sexy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We never do.

[Don LaGreca]

But like you take a Marcus Mariota, for example, who was not ready at the time he was drafted in a position that made sense. He won the Heisman Trophy. He was not ready for the spot he was in. But now you look at him five, six years in, getting some experience and you go, well this guy could be valuable for a football team. Sometimes these guys need to go on a path that's a little different. And I understand may not be on your team as your starter. Maybe they need to go around the league but I just think we throw people away so quickly in this position.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well and look what I'm doing to Justin Fields coming off one of his best performances ever and I'm just now ready to move on to another retread quarterback that I'm trying to see.

[Alan Hahn]

Hopefully there's a healthy sample size with Fields three different teams that's why he's been on three different teams as opposed.

[Don LaGreca]

To but again but Don wouldn't you.

[Alan Hahn]

Agree games in the NFL bad team.

[Don LaGreca]

Isn't it possible though that and this is what's so wacky about the position if Justin Fields post Pittsburgh where he wasn't awful but obviously Tomlin saw something he didn't like and Tomlin's a knowledgeable guy. If he had gone to a team that's capable of sort of building players properly we don't know what Justin Fields could become. He went to the worst but he went where quarterbacks go to die. He needed to go to quarterback camp and he went to quarterback. Hell Justin Fields we don't know guys we're watching him play on the jets when was the last time we saw a quarterback play well in the Jets Rodgers was the greatest quarterback I've ever seen play football was okay on the.

[Alan Hahn]

Jets they're the best quarterback performance the most recently would probably be Fitzpatrick in 2014 so that's yeah he was good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was going to go back to far in 08 farve was unreal far.

[Don LaGreca]

Was like actually great like but you're.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Saying great play he was that offense was insane.

[Don LaGreca]

It was fantastic for what 12 games.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Fitzpatrick was good that year it just fizzled at the end he did the.

[Don LaGreca]

Most he could that Fitzpatrick is capable.

[Alan Hahn]

Of for sure they've had since their championship game appearance. They did win 10 games and still didn't make the just lost tiebreakers well let you know there's a lot of reasons why people buy at Ramsey Mazda. What are they? It's their selection, it's their customer service and it's their savings. Lisa Do 2025 Mazda CX 32.5s all wheel drive for 159 for 33 months. Start shopping now at ramseymazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Miles to call 833-853-2970 for details. Vin SM 8184-1631 MSRP 269800 Security Deposit Ends 103125 thanks for listening to the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't want to know how the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter.

[Don LaGreca]

Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8.

[Peter Rosenberg]

80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Sponsor Voice]

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