← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
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- [00:00]
A
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B
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
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C
That sounds like heaven to me.
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B
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.
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C
Game time is brought to you by Telemardu Irish Whiskey because it's game time, fellas.
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D
It's tolly time.
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C
Game 2 coverage of Knicks Sixers immediately following us on 880 starting at 6. The Mets face the Rockies in Colorado. And you can hear that game on 1050 starting at 8:30. And the Yankees continue their series of the Rangers at 7:05. Tullamore due the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast mature at Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey. During today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore do responsibly. It's four o'. Clock. It's Wednesday. That means the Monica McNutt report, which is brought to you by calandra's bakery and betmgm. Monica McNutt. How are you?
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E
I'm well. How are you guys?
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F
Good.
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C
You know, it's. It's not the same without you. It's nice to have you here with a big cake in front of you, but we're going to make this work.
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E
That was a special. That was a special event.
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B
We have learned now that to get you to come here, we have to have cake.
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A
A colander's cake.
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B
So the next time, the next time we're here, we're gonna have to have a cake that's. That's confirmed.
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E
I mean our, our relationship in this capacity is only what, like a couple of months old. So I'm glad that we're understanding the boundaries from the cake.
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C
You know what?
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D
That's right.
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B
That's the way to her heart is cake is the sweet tooth.
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C
Well, it keeps getting more and more Interesting for the Knicks, Monica. Now they get ready for game two and Embiid. So how does this change the outlook of what you expect now in Game two?
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E
Man. How about that piece of news, right? John, I. Here's the thing. I think it's a little bit of a trap door, if you will. If you look at the course of the regular season, Tyrese Maxey averaged Everett elsewhere, but it's pretty close to 30. Like, he was great on his own. And frankly, that's the team that I would imagine that most of these guys are most comfortable with, because that's the team that they played with most of the season. A team that did include all three. Maxi, Embiid and George. I personally remember the two trips when the Knicks were here, and Embiid played in only one of those. But Paul George was a terrific defender. I remember Wally and I discussing, like, Paul George looking great and like, how talented he still is at his age in one of those wins and then in the other win where there was an Embiid Presence, he had 26 points here at the Garden. So I think it's a little bit of a trap door because he is a former mvp. He has a presence on that team. He makes life very difficult. But we have seen through the course of the year that the Knicks have struggled with athleticism and speed, which is still very much present on this roster. Now, is as much basketball smarts and experience there? No, but Tyrese Mackie has been in this moment, and BJ Edgecomb has played bigger than a rookie to me. And if Kelly Oubre gets going, and Paul George has been rolling through this postseason like he's been playing very well. So I still think it's a little bit tricky. But the Knicks are playing great ball, and I would expect them to win tonight without Embiid.
- [03:56]
B
Yeah, I'm glad you finished with that thought, Monica, because you were sending me down a really negative path, and I was getting like, wait a second, wait a second. Let's not get crazy, because I want to know from you, from everything you've seen and heard from this team through that Hawks series and even after Game one, because we keep talking about the team they have been in the past where they, you know, they. They do not handle prosperity well. Right. They do, but.
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E
Right.
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B
Has this team finally learned. Deuce has talked about. We've been through these wars. We've been through all this stuff. Jalen's talked about that. Josh Hart has talked about it, how much experience they have together in what they've learned from the past of their mistakes and things that they've done, games they've given away. Do we have enough confidence yet in this team to believe that? You know what? I think that's in the past, and I think tonight that won't be the issue. Yes, hon, but I think you're convincing me. That is not.
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E
Listen, listen. Hear me out now. Hear me out, y'. All. Let me finish. Let me finish. Yes, I do think that this team has turned a corner in terms of veteran experience and leadership. Right? But I also think, come on, y', all, like, if we all friends and homies, like, you still got to know your personnel, we could be growing up and still be susceptible to maybe taking a minor step back. Like, that's just the human nature of all of this, right? Who doesn't get a little bit high minded after you've had three consecutive playoff games where you knocked off teams by 35 points or more, like they are rolling at a high level? And so for me, I'm very cautioned. A pride coming before a fall. Do I think that this group has matured? Yes. Do I see where their veteran poise is really shining through? Do I believe Deuce McBride and Josh Hart when they talk about we got to stay locked in? Yeah, but you don't know you're not locked in until you're looking at the scoreboard in the last two minutes and are in a jam. So all I'm saying is everyone should stay on high alert. And that is maybe less to do with Philly to me, and more to do with the grand goal in this thing. The more aware and attentive you are, the more sharp you are, the more prepared you are, the better equipped you are for whatever may come at you. Has this team proven that they're the most talented team remaining in the Eastern Conference, offensively and defensively? To me, yes. But we all know it's not about talent on a given game opportunity. It's about who's able to execute and who's able to respond. Have they shown me an ability to execute and respond? Yes. But does each game present a different challenge? For sure. Do I think Nick Nurse is an outstanding coach? Absolutely. You throw in his personal stuff, which my heart goes out to him and his family. But does this look like a setup for a team that's galvanized behind their
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B
coach dealing with the loss in his
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family and Tyrese Maxey being set free again, who has performed well at the Garden? This has trap all over to me.
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D
I totally agree with you, Monica. And it creates so many different things mentally for the Knicks because you can easily fall asleep on your own. Like you were just mentioning like all of the things that could be going into the Sixers mindset. But from the Knicks mindset you've crushed in four straight games, you're now down their best player. It's very easy this game to start reading your own press clippings a little bit and then instead of having the Sixers completely taken out of the series come 10pm tonight, instead you're going back after giving away home court. So it becomes a huge game in that regard.
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E
Thank you. I'm glad that somebody feels like I'm not being too much of a Debbie Downer. I just want to keep it a buck. That's where I am, right? Like that's, that's my love language. What's up? Tell me the good, tell me the bad, tell me the indifference. But let's talk it all through so that we can be aware. I don't want no surprises. Now what I will say to that in Han if they come out and this is a strong 15 point lead that never really felt like a game, I will be impressed. I will give them their flowers. They tomorrow morning I will be talking about how this team is continuing to grow in real time to a place we have not yet seen them effectively be able to stay. Like during the course of the regular season, we all saw the high highs and then we all saw some low lows. But if they could give me five straight games of dominance, like we are starting to enter a territory where you really have to talk about this team as a favorite to come out of the east and put them in the class with the other two teams in the Western Conference that ended their series early. But you still got to show me because I know y', all, I know y', all, y' all like my knucklehead little cousins. I want to pull your ears and smack you the back of the head sometimes after you've been great.
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B
See, that's why I we asked what we asked here because you have the right amount of caution. Because that's again, this is who you are. And until you prove otherwise, we're always going to feel like you're going to regress to that at at the worst of times or the perfect time, which is right now. Of course, this screams trap game. The minute that Embiid news came out, that's exactly what it screamed, trap game. And that's why I asked you what I asked you because you would think by now this Team, meaning the Knicks would know this is also they'd know the same thing. We're thinking, okay, this is a trap game and maybe make you lock in a little more, not less. Not think this is going to be easier but think, wait a second now this changes our game plan because we can't put him in actions now we're going to. We can't take advantage of him and drop coverage. Like now we really have to try something different. Which that's why I mean like this would be the time if you were going to say we're not that team anymore, tonight's that night to do that. I think it almost puts a little extra in that locker room more than maybe if it was a regular straight up game two with them beat in the lineup. You know what I mean?
- [09:13]
E
Yeah, I do, I do. And I think, I think the as I'm sitting back and diagnosing this, there are some players where we don't have to worry about them locking in. But it really only takes one or two to be less than for this team to regress back to its mean. Now to be fair, its mean is still a very good team. But this high, high just from a statistical standpoint, there is some wonder how long the numbers they're putting up right now can be sustained. But I agree with you. Yeah, right. Like I agree with you that it is an impressive opportunity to go Back to New York 20 with an Embiid that is battling quite honestly the schedule as much as he's battling against the Knicks themselves. Like that would be a big step. And I think again everybody keeps asking about this being the year as you look at how things are shaking out. I go back to what most of those guys shared with me in October and nobody's putting more pressure on them than they are on themselves, which I can really appreciate from a lot of them. But in the same breath they are the ones that are out there. And a seven game series is long. So if it went one one, it's not the end of the world. But if they approached that as it could be the end of the world and had the necessary urgency that we continue to talk about being really hard to manufacture unless you are actually in that position, that will be impressive and show a tremendous level of growth. I will be thrilled if that's the commentary that we're having post game.
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C
And that's what I'm saying. And I think Peter and Alan agree you're not wrong that it could happen. But there's two reasons why I think it would be inexcusable if it did. One is, what have you accomplished that you have the right to do that. And the other thing is you're kind of known for doing that. Yeah. Like, all the more reason to not let it happen so it can happen. Monica. You're right. But I won't excuse it if it does, because it's not just a loss. It's now losing home court advantage. It's now letting them back in the series. And you know, Embiid probably plays in this game. It's a game seven. Like, the Sixers are looking at this. Like, all right, we're down two. Oh, so what? They held serve. He wants to be ready for those games in Philadelphia. Don't give them life. Don't give them life.
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B
Right.
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E
100%. So I think we all agree, though, and I guess so. Now the next thing is like, what does that look like? Right. You know, Tyrese Maxey is going to be a handful, and I think Mikhail Bridges is someone that we probably haven't talked about enough in terms of actually showing up as a defender. Even if you go back to Atlanta, like, I don't say Nikhil Alexander Walker just had an off series, I think Mikhail Bridges was 100% a part of that. Right. So he's the first guy, first line of defense. Then we heard Mike Brown say before game one that Maxey is not a guy that you guard with one person. Like, all five sets of eyes are going to be looking toward him. So you got to make sure that you're locked in in terms of your rotation. The other thing, y', all, is, just because Embiid is not there does not necessarily mean that this is not a formula in which Kaep might struggle in terms of avoiding getting into foul trouble. Because you'll probably see a combination of Paul George, Adem Bona, even some Kelly Oubre guarding him. And while he has the size advantage there, he's got to make sure he's playing more like Atlanta and not reverting to anything else. Silly, right? Because that's when the superfouls come into play. And because he has been so impactful, he's got to stay on the floor in this series. I still say that McBride has a big time opportunity in this series. And I think even though there will not be the target of Embiid, I think the Knicks still have to look to play downhill and in that pick and roll and just put pressure on this silly defense, like exhaust them on that side of the basketball and make them defend multiple actions. Because Your good shot selection is going to be your first line of defense with a team that has two guards that just want to rip it and run it. So you've got to make sure that ball at least goes through the net to give yourself a chance to slow those guys up.
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D
All right, if you were to, at this moment, guess sweep more likely sweep for the Knick still, or it were to go six, what would be your pick?
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B
Monica said seven. Her prediction is I said seven, so I'm six.
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D
So you still would. More likely this series goes deep than anything and still feel that way right now.
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E
I got it. You got to get me to three. Oh, Rosenberg. Before I'm going to feel like, okay, like, you just do. Like I just. And part of it, y'. All. And this, I will admit this might be the first time that I'm too close for my own good.
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B
Yeah, because you have trust.
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C
No, you sound.
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D
It's a little bit of. It's a. I'm not saying this at all to question your professionalism, which we know is the highest level, but you are given a little bit of emotional. You're too close to it. You've been into some degree through what the fans. Because you sound like dark callers.
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B
And you want to hear a funny story? When Monica first came to New York all those years ago and was doing some of the post games with us before she became a huge star, she was still just toiling with Wally, myself and Bill.
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E
That's right.
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B
And we were. We did. I believe it was the Atlanta series, right, Monica? It probably was, yeah. And we, like, you know, it's. It's for. For all of us because it'd been the first time in years making the playoffs.
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D
This is the Trey Young series.
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B
Like, yes. And so, you know, like, Bill is, as we know, he is the. He is very emotional. Wally and I get fired up because of the competition aspect of it and they. X's nose and what you're supposed to do. How do you win and don't make mistakes? So we're really intense. And she's just chilling like, it's the playoffs. This is fun. Isn't this great? I don't understand how she laughed at us about how intense we would be with these games. And we all said, you're here for a year. Give it a couple of years.
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E
You'll see.
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B
Now, listen, she's one of us now.
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D
It does feel that way.
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B
You are one of us now, Mom. Whether you like it or not.
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E
You guys, it's prophetic. Now, I 100% expect the Knicks to get out of this series. What it looks like is going to be the thing that we're talking about for years to come, quite frankly, because it is a hell of an opportunity this particular season.
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B
Let me ask you for about tonight's game in particular, not the whole series, but in particular tonight. If there's one player that you're like, you are the one that can't have a little drop off or whatever they end up doing because they don't have Embiid could change the way they're defending. You're a guy that I need you staying locked in. Who's the guy?
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E
Oh, that's a great question. The first answer that came to my head was jb. But then the second answer, rationally that I'm looking at because he's been so good in these playoffs and maybe still has not gotten all the credit he deserves is OG Anoby. Typically when Jalen plays well, typically the team follows. But I fully expect nursing company to mix it up tonight. So if he does not have a tremendous scoring game but can be smart with the basketball, limit turnovers and isn't getting crushed defensively and you get another flirting between 25 and 30, efficient performance from OG Anunoby, which is just quietly what he's been doing. He's shooting 60% from the three point line. Like if he's still steady and the scoring is there and the rebounding, like I think the rest of those guys figure it out. But I do think he's been such a tremendous constant this postseason, like just on both sides of the floor.
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B
How big would he be against Paul George? How much bigger can he be against Paul George now in this game when he doesn't have to help a lot when it comes to embiid. Right. Like it kind of frees him up to just stay locked in on one player and just don't let him get off. See, I think Maxi's going to get his 30 month. I'm saying don't let Vijay get 25. Don't let Paul George get 25. Don't let those guys have big nights too. And so if you can keep that from happening, you're probably gonna win the game.
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D
All right, see you later, Mike.
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C
Sounds like we lost. I think it was the Mon. I'd hang up.
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B
She loves that. She loves her nickname. Everybody calls her Mom.
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D
Yeah, she goes by she.
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C
I'm out of the loop.
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D
You don't. You're not into Mon.
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B
I just love when she went Auntie Mon and said and did just start talking about how like the Knicks, you always do this and all this stuff and I want to smack you in the back of the head. Like she. Well, no, that is the emotion you're talking about.
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D
Yeah, but that, that is when she says that I won't believe it till they're up 3 0. That means like a lot of fans, she does not have faith that in a night like tonight when a serious team would finish the Sixers off, she understandably is like, let me see it. Because I've seen this team turn it off before.
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B
I told you what the number was. Five times they've had home court advantage. They've won game one. Right. Five times.
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C
Right.
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B
They have lost game two, three times. But makes you crazy, does it?
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C
Bringing that up tells you that there is no change. But the four game winning streak and especially the way they won the last three tells you that maybe that's old news.
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B
Right? That's what you want to see.
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C
But we don't completely buy it because the sample size is still too small in the affirmative. Here's the other thing I wanted to bring up. We lost Monica, but she did a great job. Let's give her the rest of the day off. And so I have to let you know that the Monica McNutt report. I see what you did at Calandro's Bakery. Calandra's Bakery. Just four simple ingredients and still made by hand since 1962. Available fresh daily at your local supermarket. And BetMGM our own. Your moment. Make it legendary. Download the BETMGM app today. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler the Nick Nurse. In case you missed it, he lost his brother. I guess it was a little while ago last week, but last week. But he was 62. Was sudden during the off day was when I guess with the funeral was.
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B
Funeral was in Iowa. He went right to Iowa to be there for the funeral and obviously came back to New York.
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C
Now obviously that's a little far away. So I don't know how many people within the organization went with him. But what it kind of reminded me of and if you're. If you're looking for something to worry about like will it galvanize the Sixers. The first thing that came to mind when you were telling me the story yesterday was what the Rangers went through when they were down 3:1 to Pittsburgh and Martin St. Louis. Mom.
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B
Mother.
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C
Suddenly on Mother's Day and the whole team went to the funeral because it was in Montreal, it was somewhat close and they Went and they talked to a man about how that brought them together. They win the next three games, they win the series, and they end up going to the Stanley Cup Final. I don't know. Well, you wonder about those things as coincidence, right? Would it have happened anyway? It's like so easy after the fact to say that's what brought the team together. But another thing to, I guess be a little concerned about. I'm sure they have feelings for their coach, especially loses his brother suddenly, even though it was last week, he's got to go away from to be with the family. You wonder if that's something that can kind of bring a room together. The adversity of losing your best player, your coach going through something emotionally, you know, little things that you wonder can bring a team together in a game like tonight.
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B
It's all part of the story, of course, but again, I just keep bringing it back. And you heard Monica say it as well as I think a lot of what happens from here on out is less about what goes on with the opponent and more about what's happening in that Nick locker room. What Mike Brown is doing to make adjustments, what these players are doing to make sure they stay locked in and they don't have these fall off games, these fall off performances, or even blown leads late, which is really the reason why they lost game two to Atlanta. They just thought they were in control and they got complacent. Complacency is probably the greatest weakness of this team in the postseason. So you don't allow that to happen. And of course you should stay in control. That's really what it's about. Are they going to have poor shooting nights? That does happen. That does happen on a random night. You're just not going to, for whatever reason, open threes are not going down. It doesn't mean you can't continue to play defense at a high level and all the other stuff that you're doing. But the complacency thing is what Monica was talking about and what the rest of us keep talking about is that we think it's behind them, but we don't know for sure in situations like this are the reasons why or why not.
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C
And listen, let's not be arrogant enough to say they can't be beaten. I mean, sometimes you're just beaten. Of course, yes, the other team is better on that given day. Right now, I don't believe that was the case in the two losses against Atlanta. I put that on them. But there are going to be nights where, you know, it Just it isn't falling. And we can't just always excuse every loss and blame them for not being engaged or playing with their food. As Peter likes to say, sometimes you
- [21:22]
D
just get beat and we have over. I think the was a game. I think it was game three. No, which one, which one did they cut? It was three when they came back and lost to the buzzer.
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B
They had the terrible first quarter and had to chase the scoreboard, came back, took the lead and then ended up losing the game.
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D
That one, that one's the one to me that they lost in the series because a lot of people were saying they didn't lose any in the series because really the way they lost two was fluky. But when you really look at game three, they were losing most of that game. They came back, made a run of it, then came up short. I would say that is one game.
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C
But that's been their Valleywick too. I mean, that's how they won the Boston so series falling behind early.
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D
Yes, that's a great point.
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C
I mean that's kind of who they are, so. But not recently. But I do feel like sometimes as much as we can be negative to say that they've got to prove to us that they're not going to, you know, daydream about advancing, that, you know, that they aren't capable of just losing a game too. Like not everything is going to fall on while we didn't get beat, you know, we beat ourselves kind of thing. Now we're sounding like the players, oh, they just wanted it more than we did or whatever. Sometimes you just get beat. Just don't allow that to happen. Programming alert. Game 2 of the Knicks Sixers will be immediately following us right here on 880 ESPN New York and all the games can be streamed on espn. New York's app. Today's Mets Rockies game can be heard on 1050 and that coverage will begin after 8 o'. Clock. So that's what we have going on right now. We're at Stout on 35th between 7th and 8th, just down the street from the Garden. It was raining before. I think it's. I don't know if it's cleared up, but it's not as rainy as it was earlier. But still, why sit outside, Come in, hang out with us. We're going to be here until 6 o' clock and then Pat O' Keefe is going to take over for the pregame for the seven o' clock tip for this big game two of Madison Square Garden. We'll talk a little Yankees a little bit later on as well. We're going to have an abbreviated ENN at 550, but at some point we've been told that Bill Peto is going to join us.
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B
He's a gem, just texted me, walking over now, on his way.
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C
So he should be here by the time we get back.
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D
Get ready for it.
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C
I dare him to be here by the time we get back.
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B
Seven minutes, Peto. Let's go.
- [23:31]
C
Don Han and Rosenberg hanging out with you till 6:00 clock on ESPN New York.
- [23:37]
A
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- [25:20]
B
thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.
- [25:24]
D
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [25:25]
B
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts
- [25:33]
E
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Wow.
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- [26:23]
B
Yes.
- [26:24]
C
So we can line up the phone calls. Apparently, Peto was from Jersey City. He's not here yet.
- [26:29]
B
No, no, no. J.
- [26:31]
C
When you say I'm walking, I'm on my way. The garden's a stone's throw away.
- [26:35]
B
He's got little legs. He's a. He's a. He's a wee little man.
- [26:38]
C
I wouldn't know who deserves to be attacked.
- [26:40]
D
Well, no, both of you are bad guys.
- [26:41]
C
I mean, I was being playful. He went right after the size of his legs.
- [26:44]
B
I mean, you know, like, it takes him a little extra time.
- [26:47]
C
There he is. Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Peto. I'm the cedo.
- [26:53]
D
Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
- [26:55]
C
I just want you to know, Bill,
- [26:56]
D
I am the only one of the three hosts who didn't disparage you in the last 30 seconds.
- [27:00]
C
Welcome to the show. Full disclosure, I just said, where's he walking from? Jersey City. And then Allen went right after the size of your legs, which I would never do.
- [27:07]
B
I just. It just takes you a little longer to get places.
- [27:09]
F
We had a little bit of a problem in the offices. Smoke alarm.
- [27:14]
C
Oh, no.
- [27:15]
F
Seriously?
- [27:17]
D
Again, no smoking heaters. Right before the gas.
- [27:19]
F
First time ever. We had to actually evacuate the floor.
- [27:22]
C
Really?
- [27:23]
F
No issue, thankfully. But it delayed the schedule, so. But I'm here on time. I'm here on time.
- [27:28]
E
That's right.
- [27:28]
D
You did.
- [27:29]
B
Actually. It's 4:30.
- [27:31]
E
See that?
- [27:31]
B
Nicely done.
- [27:33]
F
What's up? Good to see you guys.
- [27:34]
B
What was your reaction when you saw the. The embiid news earlier today? Was it shock? Was it like, were you surprised or were you concerned? Where are you at?
- [27:43]
F
Where are we? Like, I'm not a doctor, obviously, but what's up with. Since when is there an ankle issue? I mean, we saw him get hit in the knee.
- [27:50]
B
Well, he's the operation game, right? It's all there for.
- [27:54]
C
Well, it feels like it's strategic.
- [27:55]
F
Right, you guys? Is that what you guys have been.
- [27:57]
C
Well, I think he's, you know, he's banged up. He wants to be fresh for the games in Philly. Because as big as a win would be for the Knicks tonight, all they did was hold serve, right. If Phillies got any chance in this series, they've got to have a healthy Embiid. So I think it's more strategic. If this was an elimination game, I think he's playing right.
- [28:15]
B
That's what I think.
- [28:16]
F
What do you. We were talking, you know, defensively, they actually might improve now.
- [28:20]
B
Well, because of the drop coverage.
- [28:22]
F
Because he's such a liability. Because whatever Brunson wants to do off that pick and roll he was able to do because he just can't move now. Can Adembona do a better job on defense? Listen, when Andre Drummond's not the most mobile guy in the world, right, he's not.
- [28:36]
B
Now, remember before Embiid got into this series with the Celtics, they were down 2:1. Then he played in game four and they were down 3:1.
- [28:43]
F
Right.
- [28:44]
B
Because in game four, they did the exact same thing the Knicks did in game one. They put him in pick and roll and he got murdered.
- [28:50]
F
Right. So they won game two. Allen. Right. Just.
- [28:52]
B
They won game two without him after
- [28:54]
F
losing game one by 30.
- [28:56]
C
Right.
- [28:56]
B
So very similar situations, which is why everybody should be on alert when it comes to the Knicks on their side of it. But I don't know if I'm buying the idea that they're better without them because they couldn't beat Boston. They couldn't beat Boston without them. And then they smoked Boston with them. They went into Boston in Game 7 and won because the Celtics couldn't figure it out and couldn't guard him.
- [29:18]
F
You know, you look back at the Celtics series, why couldn't they run some of the pick and roll action that the Knicks did so effectively in Game one?
- [29:25]
D
Because Joe Mazool is a joke.
- [29:26]
B
Well, no, they did. They did it in game Game four. Things changed in the coverages. I can't explain it, but the heavy reliance that the Celtics had on the three point shot is what did them in more than anything that the Sixers did. And I believe that the Knicks aren't really built like that.
- [29:42]
F
So I, I, you know, I don't. You guys have been talking as someone that's been watching, obviously, and grateful to have the opportunity to watch this team all the time. It's been the way they've started these games. To me, that has been, you know, we're all talking about the offense going through cat and the cat assist. But to me, their defense has demoralized the opposition here in the last handful of games.
- [30:00]
B
We don't talk enough about it, and
- [30:02]
F
it's led to transition buckets. It gets him off to a great rhythm, and I think that's really contributed here to what we've seen.
- [30:07]
D
It's almost as if I said this the other day. What's made the Knicks special during this run, Bill. It seems like they're just kind of doing the things that every basketball coach from the time you're eight years old tells you to do. Play defense hard as you can, get up, get moving up and down the floor. Oh, by the way, pass the ball. You'll get your shots. That kind of seems to be. Seems to be a relatively simple mentality that has worked out for them much better than when they have a tendency and they. They can fall into this pattern. Hopefully they don't tonight of just Brunson ball. Let's just give it to Jalen and
- [30:34]
F
watch a 34 assists in game one.
- [30:36]
D
Right.
- [30:37]
F
I mean, when they have assist totals like that. And it just goes to show you that whatever they're doing differently offensively, and we're all trying to figure it out schematically, what. Why has this been so effective? I think, you know, Alan's made the point that they're hitting their shots.
- [30:49]
C
Everything.
- [30:50]
F
Everything looks good when you hit your shots. And the efficiency of the starters in particular in game one in terms of their shooting percentage was just off the charts.
- [30:57]
E
Yeah.
- [30:57]
F
You got an OBI seven for eight. Brunson 12 at 18.
- [31:01]
B
Bridges was seven for a 10. Right, right.
- [31:03]
F
And Cat, you know, is passing the ball and hasn't had to take a lot of shots. 32 assists for Cat in the last four games. Amazing.
- [31:12]
E
Yeah.
- [31:13]
D
Do you ever think I've been sort of obsessed with this topic? I may be the only one. I find it fascinating, Bill, that Carl Anthony Towns is sitting somewhere between he could end up in Milwaukee next year, or he could end up a Knicks legend. Like, isn't it kind of all sitting there in front of us right now?
- [31:30]
F
Yeah, it's interesting. And now he's embracing whatever they're doing, whereas before the, you know, the operative narrative was that he wasn't happy with what they were doing. And look, when he has the ball in his hands and is able to facilitate, he's been really, really effective. We haven't seen it to the extent that we've seen it in the playoffs, but this is a guy that's, you know, playing center. He's got. He's averaging what, eight, as I just mentioned, eight assists per game over his last Four. That's pretty amazing.
- [31:56]
C
It's also not that long ago, what was it, eight days ago or no, 10 days ago. 10 days ago, where we're like, oh, my God, they're down two games to one. This team can't win a championship. And then they turned it around four games. So it's really about how we look at the coach. Right. The rarity of making a coaching change after losing in the conference final, it just doesn't happen. But where do you think the difference lies in the coaching? Would this be happening if Tibbs were still here?
- [32:24]
F
Well, I will say that the huge edge that the Knicks have in this series as it unfolds, especially if Embiid is compromised in Knicks bench. The Knicks bench. Last year, if Tibbs went to an eighth guy or a ninth guy, it would be an eighth guy or ninth guy that hadn't plate. This year, whoever he goes to has experience. He went to Huck Porty in game one the other night when the Knicks were in foul trouble. Cat had three fouls, Mitchell Robinson had three fouls. I don't know what Tibbs would have done. I don't think Tibbs would have gone to a Huck Porty because he wouldn't have played Huck Porty enough to have any confidence in him that he could play two or three minutes. Jose Alvarado was out of the rotation, comes back into the rotation, contributes. Jordan Clarkson was out of the rotation, back in the rotation, contributes. So I think the biggest change to me is that Mike Brown is going to use guys that have been used to playing. Remember last year against the Pacers? Tibbs was playing the long. Right. Like what's going on here? I mean, playing guys that hadn't played at all. Right now when Brown goes with bench, these guys have played. I think that's, that's might be the biggest edge. And it could really start taking even more of a storyline as we go go further on in these playoffs.
- [33:30]
B
We have talked so much about the, the core of this group being together for the last. This is a fourth year now that they're in a run and a fourth year that they've won at least one playoff series. And it's not something that any of them are celebrating the fact that they win one. They all know what the goal is for this team. When you go through these trials and tribulations and Billy P, you, me, Wally, we, we. We were just talking to Monica. We have been through some of the. The roller coaster of emotions right where you feel like this might be the year and then it all comes crashing down for whatever reason. But when you go through that though, there's a lot that the same the similarities, the. The continuity that you can bring now into a fourth year where you say we've been through enough. I heard Deuce McBride say this, that we've been through enough of these now to know what to expect to what happens and how to handle it. How much of that do you think will. Will deliver in this year? Because there really has been a. Other than the coach, there has been a continuity with the core of this team.
- [34:28]
F
And of course Cat, even when he wasn't here, has deep playoff experience.
- [34:31]
B
Yes.
- [34:32]
F
So obviously he missed the first couple
- [34:33]
B
of years he's been now this is two conference finals he's been to back to back.
- [34:36]
F
Right.
- [34:38]
E
Yeah.
- [34:38]
F
I was thinking this. I don't know how you feel and you guys cover. We're all so close to this every day. But we go up and down during the regular season and what you realize is regular season. I mean, come on man.
- [34:51]
C
I know what are we?
- [34:52]
D
What are we?
- [34:52]
C
And I I hate to dirty secret
- [34:54]
F
but I hate to be so blatantly honest but it does feel that that's our job. Right.
- [34:59]
B
We.
- [34:59]
F
We have to, you know, be engaged. But you start realizing that this is money time. And you know the Knicks, when they're losing nine of 11 in the regular season, I think deep down to your point, they hey man, just chill out. We've been here. We know money time is not now we. But I'll tell you when they were down 2:1 to the Hawks, a switch flipped and maybe it's the experience that you're talking about. All of us were somewhat in panic mode and they have concern and they have just rolled ever since. They have not. They have been dominant. I mean this is, this is a run right now for the ages in terms of what they've done here the
- [35:38]
D
last three, four games a few games into last but by the time we got to game five or so, I think Alan, you were very much on OG Anunoby is the MVP of the series. Of the series so far. Is that still a reasonable thing to say of the Knicks run so far or has that shifted to Cat, who do you view as most valuable so far for this team?
- [35:56]
F
See, to me Anunoby is key because he's now become a consistent third option scoring. He used to be a guy that's going to stand in the corner, hit the three. Now he is creating his own shot and making it. And that to me we all Know that he's been great on defense. He has been a difference maker on defense. He's been effective when he's been open. But to me, one of the big changes and what's really helped this team maybe take the next step is his ability to create his own shot. And we haven't. He's averaging 21 per game so far in these playoffs. I think he's shooting 63% from 2 and over 52% from 3.
- [36:28]
B
Right. Remarkable.
- [36:29]
F
And you have. You throw him in with Cat and Jalen Brunson. Now you got a viable third option.
- [36:34]
B
What is. You've been doing this a long time now. What does this mean, like the experience of all this mean for you?
- [36:41]
F
I was thinking about that. I. I just want us to make sure that we are appreciative of what we've seen here. This is an NBA record run that we've seen. Now what's it gonna. What's our thought gonna be? Heaven forbid, if it doesn't materialize.
- [36:53]
D
Right.
- [36:53]
B
When we reflect on the season, if they don't end up in the finals, what will we think of it? Right?
- [36:57]
F
Right. But still, this is the last. Since the two losses to Atlanta, the Knicks have been virtually unbeatable. We've mentioned this on the year. I'm sure you guys have talked about it. The last two games, a starter hasn't played a single second in the fourth quarter. I mean, this is not the G league or summer league we're talking about. I mean, so I think you have to, regardless of what happens, I think this, however this stretch lasts, we have to take that away. Right? I mean, this has been. The fan would say, oh, who cares? But I think these last four games, and this is NBA history that we've
- [37:31]
B
seen, this is 10 days of probably the, the most, the greatest 10 days we've seen since probably the 1999 run when they, they won that game five in Miami and then won the next four. They were right. They won five in a row, if not six in a row, when they went all the way to the conference final. But that sweep in the middle there, that's a, That's a two week solid. Two weeks of just euphoria. I don't think we've seen a playoff run like that since. Since now.
- [37:55]
C
I'm glad you said, appreciate it because the other team that you've done with the Rangers on msg and I saw the stat last night when the Avalanche won their sixth consecutive game to start the playoffs. That's the most that a President's trophy team had won in a row to start since The Rangers won seven straight in 24. Like because so much, so much happened since then. I had completely forgotten about it. That the Rangers won their first seven playoff games in 2024. And now we fast forward two years later. They're in a reimagining. Like that's how fleeting it all is. But this Nick thing seems more sustainable no matter where it ends up. Yeah, but Don feels like they're in a better place.
- [38:35]
F
That Ranger group made the conference finals two of three years.
- [38:38]
C
Right.
- [38:39]
F
And they were up two nothing and
- [38:41]
C
a two nothing leading game three against Tampa in 22. That's my point is that now. Now here we are not that long ago. But it doesn't it. No matter how where this run goes, does it feel more sustainable than the Rangers?
- [38:56]
F
My concern as a fan. Who cares. Is that if this goes in a way that's not expected, that we may see a turbulent offseason just because of the nature of the modern day NBA, the modern day NHL. I mean, you know, the. The Rangers obviously felt like they needed to move on. Some guys they felt were aging. Whether that was a correct move or not, that was a decision that was made. I think there's a certain expectation now you make the conference finals last year, if certain goals are not met this year, I think you could. But where.
- [39:28]
D
Where's that line though? That was what I was just debating. So in the first series, I'm going, well, hey, if they somehow lose in the first round, maybe Mike Brown's out, maybe everyone's traded who's not named Jalen Brunson. Now they've won that series in historic fashion. Right now we're on to series two.
- [39:42]
C
At what point?
- [39:43]
D
Because last year Bill. I was sure Tibbs got to the point where he's locked in for next year.
- [39:47]
B
Right?
- [39:47]
D
Obvious I was wrong. Can you say what the line would
- [39:50]
B
be for this team?
- [39:50]
D
It's hard to say.
- [39:51]
F
And I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
- [39:54]
C
I don't know about you guys. I know this. Glad we're not involved in that. Even though the Knicks changed their coach, I think the difference between the two organizations is the Rangers waited until it was too late to address the roster. It feels like if they are put in a position to make changes, it'll be with the roster and going after one of the best players in the NBA and Giants. So at least it could be a turbulent offseason, but could be off season. That could pay some dividends. Where you feel like, right. But hey, look what we acquired here.
- [40:21]
F
To your guys, Peter's point. How do you know? Okay, this wasn't, you know, you go to seven games in the conference finals,
- [40:29]
D
does that mean you need an overhaul?
- [40:31]
B
Like, I got to see what it looks like, right?
- [40:33]
C
I don't think, I think Alan's right. Right. I don't think it's games.
- [40:35]
F
It just.
- [40:36]
C
How do you feel?
- [40:37]
F
Right?
- [40:37]
C
There's got to be a feel again.
- [40:38]
F
So if you take these four games, that's got to be something you think about too. Or not.
- [40:43]
D
Well, here's the, here's the thing. Last week, knicks are down 2:1.
- [40:47]
F
Okay, I'm giving you if they're down, if they lose that series in six games or.
- [40:50]
C
But I remember, but I remember saying,
- [40:51]
D
you guys remember what I said to you? It was, it was, it was. When it got to 2:2, I said, if they go on to win the next two, we're going to forget this series was ever hard. And we did flip side to that coin. If they somehow were to go and lose this series or get swept by Detroit, sadly, we will forget about the straightforward game run.
- [41:09]
F
We will.
- [41:10]
D
That's not what you remember, but that's
- [41:11]
B
usually how it goes, right? That's what a playoff runs all about. And it's only, it's probably 15 years from now when you go, well, remember those four games. Like that's, that's, that's when you do that stuff, when you forget. Because it's always how it ends. What sticks with you the longest at the beginning and then over time, the memory of whatever this group ends up doing. Because let's be honest, like the window, this four years now, the window starts to get a little bit, a little bit closer. But it's, it's being in the moment right now. And I'm glad that's what Bill said, is that to understand what we're, what we've been watching and to know that this is not the way it's normally going to go, but it does give an indication of where it can go. As far as the success for the season. We've been waiting a long time. This, see, can this team ever put it together at the right time? There's no more right time than right now.
- [41:58]
F
You know, and to your point about, and, and, and there's people to talk about this, you know, what success, what's failure? I was struck by what Joe Missoula said, the Celtics coach, after they got knocked out by the Sixers. He said, I feel the same as we did when we won the championship. Well, explain that to me.
- [42:12]
B
Jaylen Brown. And then Jaylen Brown said, this is his favorite.
- [42:15]
F
I can only. I can see. See, he felt like, yeah, we didn't. I can. But he led. He got prized during the regular season.
- [42:22]
B
Right.
- [42:22]
F
I think that's what he said.
- [42:23]
D
He was in mvp.
- [42:24]
F
Right.
- [42:24]
C
Right.
- [42:25]
F
Now, maybe that's not the best thing to say.
- [42:27]
B
Nope.
- [42:27]
F
But you can understand it a little. But Joe Missoula saying, I feel as the same way I did when he won.
- [42:31]
E
Bill, did you hear that?
- [42:32]
B
Yes.
- [42:33]
E
I'm a.
- [42:33]
D
He's a freak.
- [42:34]
F
But what is. What is that? He's a.
- [42:36]
D
He's a weird dude.
- [42:38]
F
So what is that in terms of, like, we all measure the championship? There's a coach saying maybe it's just being able to compete.
- [42:46]
C
Although what he's telling you is they weren't good enough to win a championship.
- [42:50]
B
Yeah. He knew.
- [42:50]
C
He took them as far as they could go.
- [42:52]
B
Yeah.
- [42:52]
C
We're looking at them as being dangerous. Tatum comes back, they're gonna be the favorite. I think he. What he's telling you is we weren't good enough.
- [42:58]
F
So he's saying, I'm so happy with our regular season and what we were able to accomplish with Tatum being out most of the time. That.
- [43:03]
C
No, I don't think it's that.
- [43:04]
D
Do you guys remember the clip of the little kid interviewing Joe Missoula and asking about, like, fun? And he goes, fun is just. Fun is working hard. Fun is competing. He doesn't understand.
- [43:15]
F
He doesn't care about results.
- [43:16]
D
He doesn't. He's. And I'm not, you know, I'm not judging him, even though I'm making giving a hard time. It's how he operates. He's like. He's a very religious guy. He sees things in a very. You go to work each day. I don't think he has highs or lows, but my bigger issue with him is, you see your team is unable
- [43:32]
B
to win games when they're shooting the rock.
- [43:33]
A
You don't change your approach.
- [43:34]
F
Right.
- [43:35]
D
That. Something's got to change.
- [43:36]
C
They'll have fun, man. Hopefully. We'll see youo.
- [43:39]
F
Ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you very. Always great to see you guys.
- [43:42]
D
Thank you, man.
- [43:42]
C
Don Ona Rosenberg.
- [43:44]
D
Hanging out with you@stouts O'Reilly Auto Parts can help take the guesswork out of your Vehicle's check engine, ABS or maintenance light with OReilly VeriScan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today as you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise
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means all the money moments that fandom creates. Whether splitting tailgate costs or chipping in on tickets and game day food between friends are covered. Wherever the game is played or watched, PayPal moves with fans. You can send money through text, email or directly to your friends with eligible accounts on Venmo. Just download the PayPal app and share all the moments that matter account with PayPal is required. Not available in all regions where PayPal operates. Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [45:08]
D
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [45:10]
B
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:18]
C
Programming Alert Game two of the Knicks and the Sixers will immediately follow us here on 880 ESPN New York at 6 o' clock and all the games can be streamed on ESPN New York's app. Today's Mets Rockies game can be heard on 1050 at 830 and that's the way it's going to be the rest of the next run. So we do appreciate our partners with the Mets making that happen. Now speaking of the Yankees, they continue to be hot. They've won 15 of their last 17 games and the one person that should be very concerned about this is Anthony Volpe. Because McMahon's hitting home runs, Caballero is hitting, they have no appetite to make any changes at shortstop or third base. Lombard Jr. Is now up at AAA on the same team that, you know, Volpe's on right now because Volpe was sent back to the minors after his rehab stint. As long as the Yankees keep winning and that side of the infield continues to produce, there is not a spot
- [46:09]
B
for Anthony Volpe and there's no reason to for anybody, including Volpe, by the way, to have any concern about this. It is a story because of what he was just in the last couple of years. And if you also consider how much Cashman talked to Him. I remember when Cashman had it out with the media about his trust and faith and belief in Volpe and you know, had some choice words with the media as well we know. Was it Boone that called him elite? Right. Like they, they were protecting him, they were defending him, they were in front of him. That's not happening now. So actions over words. Right now when it comes to the Yankees and how they're handling Volpe, it doesn't necessarily mean, in my opinion that they're done with him, but it definitely lets him know you're on notice. Like you got to be in the minors, you got to handle it right. You got to do everything right. And that it's going to be now a race between him and Lamar Jr and to see which guy is going to be the one that emerges. Now again with McMahon who's by the way, another guy that's been hitting the ball. Yeah, he had a home run last night. He has, he's worked, he's worked with, with Judge in the pen. In the, I always say the pen, that's the wrong thing to say here in the cage.
- [47:21]
C
Right.
- [47:21]
B
On some things. And it's a great story that Susan told last night that basically like that Judge said, let me see what you got. Watch this stance and then change something. And since then he's had, he's had a couple extra base hits yet again, he has a couple of home runs. And it is something that you don't expect to be a long term thing with McMahon but you know, he's good to offensively but at some point they're gonna have to make a decision and figure out what third base, the future third base is. But Caballero has been really good. He's an everyday player, at least proving himself to be that. And that is something he's going to hold on to. All this is tenuous, of course, we know it always does. But right now there's no reason to overreact. And I think it says a lot that the Yankees without saying anything instead of bringing Volpe up because, well, we can't. It'll look bad. What it'll look like, like he's the guy, he's. We got to play him. No, it's. We don't have a need for this right now. We have options. We're going to let you play there, do your best and when the time comes you'll have your opportunity. And who's to say another team doesn't come calling?
- [48:22]
C
There'll be a need at some point. We're still Very early in the season.
- [48:25]
D
But may you talk about how fast things change.
- [48:27]
C
When I, when I was reading baseball. Susan yeah.
- [48:29]
D
When I was reading the Volpe decision, I was like just a second ago we were talking about what this guy could be. And not that it's completely ruled out now, but to know that it's on the table that they're definitely going to
- [48:39]
B
be listening to Officer know they don't feel an urgency.
- [48:42]
E
No.
- [48:43]
B
Get him back into weight. Well, we've, we put. So we've invested so much that we would look bad if we put him in the minors. What will that look like? I'm glad they're not making the corporate decision on him. I'm glad they're making what's best for the team right now and maybe what's best for the kid.
- [48:59]
C
I'm glad that you brought up the actions speak louder than words because that was thrown out there when Boone and Cashman got aggressive and were defending him verbally. But yet during that time they trade for McMahon, they trade for Caballero, they're playing them. They send Volpe down on the minor league stint, leave him down to the minor leagues after the injury was, was over. That actions speak louder than words. They define that's right for an organization. But they didn't get stubborn and they did what was right for the team. And now those guys are starting to hit. They've been a plus defenders all along anyway. And the Yankees, the only problem with the Yankees is they haven't been able to shake loose of the Rays.
- [49:36]
B
It's a crazy thing happening.
- [49:37]
C
They're the best team in baseball right now. The Rays are only a game back in the loss column. But I have a feeling as the season goes on, not saying the Rays are going to go away, but I still like the Yankees chances certainly making the play playoffs and eventually winning that division because the Yankees will be more equipped. But you say with having Volpe of that they need to make moves at the deadline they'll be more equipped to do that than the Rays and I think that'll help them eventually solidify the division. The two teams that were. 500 lost last night. So again the American League stinks crazy. But right now the Yankees are the class of the American League and that's all that matters.
- [50:09]
B
And can we talk about Judge as well? Like, like talk like Judge almost had another home run last night top of the wall. Like, like Judge and what he's on right now, what, what he's doing right now is something that like Bill was just talking about taking for granted this Nick run and what you're seeing from this team. I do think we have reached a point and it's really you blame Judge. He has set this standard for himself. But we are almost like, yeah, like, like judges doing things at a historic level once again at a dominant level once again, once again, once again the best at it in baseball with always is somebody else like that. That's, you know, that's pushing him. But the bottom line is what he does year after year, we've reached a point now where we just kind of shrug at it, like, yeah, well, that's what he does. Yeah, his standard is so much higher year to year. I'm not talking about the flesh and the pan guys again. Cal Riley last year came out of nowhere and did what he did. Judge does this every year and we just take it like as if, well, this is his standard. No one else has a standard like this and he meets it every year.
- [51:16]
C
1-800-919-3776. The phones are up. How do you feel about the Knicks? Don on a Rosenberg Live from Stout on ESPN New York.
- [51:25]
B
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter
- [51:33]
F
weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8
- [51:35]
B
80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.
- [51:40]
F
Hey sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional cost. Visit active activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then
- [52:03]
E
start streaming in the ESPN app.
- [52:05]
F
It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now.