Hour 2: No Hitters & Mets Struggles

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary
Episode: Hour 2: No Hitters & Mets Struggles
Release Date: June 23, 2025

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast, hosts Don Hahn, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve deep into recent developments in Major League Baseball, focusing primarily on a no-hitter performance and the New York Mets' ongoing struggles. The discussion intertwines analysis of player performances, strategic decisions influenced by analytics, and the broader implications for the teams involved.

---

No Hitters and Clark Schmidt's Performance

The conversation kicks off with a heated debate over Clark Schmidt's recent near no-hitter game. Schmidt delivered an impressive performance, achieving 103 pitches through seven innings, but was pulled from the game, preventing him from completing the no-hitter.

• Peter Rosenberg criticizes the decision to pull Schmidt, expressing frustration with modern baseball’s handling of no-hitters:

  "No Hitters become obsolete now. How accepting people are now. Oh well, he threw 103 pitches. What are you going to do?" ([03:00])

• Alan Hahn echoes Peter's concerns, reminiscing about past instances where pitchers were left in games:

  "We can't have him throw that many pitches, Peter." ([03:03])

• The hosts discuss the implications of pitch counts on pitcher longevity and the potential for future injuries:

  "If he throws 104 pitches, scanners, these eyeballs blow out of his head and he just drops dead on the mound." ([03:46])

Mets Struggles: Offense and Pitching Woes

Shifting focus to the New York Mets, the hosts analyze the team's recent performance, highlighting issues in both their offense and bullpen.

• Peter Rosenberg points out the Mets' offensive inconsistency:

  "The Mets have all kinds of problems with their bullpen. And they lost two out of three to Philadelphia." ([00:52])

• Alan Hahn adds concerns about the Mets' bottom of the lineup, citing poor batting averages:

  "Alvarez is batting .167 over the last five games with one RBI." ([24:05])

• The discussion touches on the Mets' defensive struggles, particularly at third base due to injuries:

  "Vientos has been out and he is supposed to be your everyday third baseman." ([26:19])

The Role of Analytics in Player Management

A significant portion of the episode critiques the heavy reliance on analytics in modern baseball, especially how it affects decision-making regarding player usage and game strategies.

• Peter Rosenberg argues that analytics have diminished the human element:

  "Sports isn't fun anymore. Sports is not fun where people are like, oh, you know, Halliburton shouldn't have played." ([05:38])

• Alan Hahn counters by discussing the balance between analytics and human intuition:

  "Analytics don't. They can't quantify momentum. You can't quantify crowd noise." ([12:07])

• The hosts debate the impact of analytics on memorable game moments and historical achievements:

  "You want to have that opportunity. We go back to the beginning of the show where Tom Brady joked..." ([12:46])

Handling of Young Players and Development

The podcast highlights the challenges teams face in developing young talent while maintaining competitive performance.

• Peter Rosenberg expresses frustration over the Mets' handling of young players, emphasizing the difficulty of nurturing talent on a championship-bound team:

  "It's hard to develop young players on a team that's trying to win a championship." ([35:37])

• Alan Hahn discusses the importance of giving young players time to develop without excessive pressure:

  "Just give the guy a minute. Get your confidence up. Get right." ([32:58])

• The conversation also covers the Mets' strategy in managing their roster, including sending promising players like Love Luis down to the minors for further development:

  "If he throws 20 pitches and gets out of it, it's like, all right, listen, now that it's a little bit too much now, it's ridiculous." ([18:15])

Listener Interactions and Perspectives

Throughout the episode, listeners Griffin, Kevin, and Josh call in, providing their own insights and questions, which the hosts address thoughtfully.

• Griffin suggests that Schmidt's high pitch count was due to grinding through the game:

  "He had to grind in the first inning too, where he walked the first two batters." ([17:26])

• Kevin emphasizes the importance of winning the recent series to regain momentum:

  "We need to win that series. Get back on the right path." ([33:18])

• Josh raises a question about the conflicting approaches in sports psychology and clutch performance:

  "How is it that they believe in sports psychology but not in clutch?" ([39:22])

NBA Finals Brief Discussion

While primarily focused on baseball, the hosts briefly touch upon the recent NBA Finals, discussing player performances and game dynamics.

• Josh shares his disappointment with the Finals' style of play and concerns about the league's future direction:

  "It's going to be, you know, mano a mano. Superstars going at each other." ([39:22])

• The conversation highlights Halliburton's injury as a pivotal moment in the Finals, affecting the game's outcome:

  "Halliburton got hurt, so it never got good." ([44:36])

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts summarizing their thoughts on the current state of baseball, emphasizing the need for balance between analytics and the human side of the game. They advocate for allowing pitchers like Schmidt to finish their performances and stress the importance of developing young talent without undue pressure.

• Peter Rosenberg concludes with a call for reassessing current philosophies:

  "I just think it's the general philosophy of baseball. We all point to Johan Santana." ([21:46])

• Alan Hahn reinforces the importance of maintaining emotional investment as a fan:

  "You can't react, though. I'm not allowed to be emotional because I'm told it's too soon." ([27:23])

---

Key Takeaways

• No-Hitter Management: Modern baseball's approach to pitch counts can prematurely end historic performances, potentially impacting pitcher longevity and memorable game moments.

• Mets' Performance Issues: The New York Mets are currently facing significant challenges in both their offensive lineup and bullpen, raising concerns about their playoff aspirations.

• Analytics vs. Human Element: A heavy reliance on analytics may detract from the emotional and human aspects of the game, potentially stifling player performances and memorable moments.

• Development of Young Players: Balancing the development of young talent with the pressures of maintaining a competitive team is a recurring challenge for MLB franchises.

• Listener Engagement: Fans actively participate in the discussion, providing diverse perspectives and raising critical questions about team strategies and player management.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "No Hitters become obsolete now." – Peter Rosenberg ([03:00])

• "Sports isn't fun anymore." – Peter Rosenberg ([05:38])

• "Analytics don't. They can't quantify momentum." – Alan Hahn ([12:07])

• "It's hard to develop young players on a team that's trying to win a championship." – Peter Rosenberg ([35:37])

---

This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of current baseball dynamics, merging statistical insights with heartfelt discussions about the human side of the sport. Whether you're a die-hard Mets fan or interested in the broader implications of analytics in sports, Don, Hahn & Rosenberg provide a thought-provoking listen.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

402 in the big city. Don on Rosenberg with you till 6:30. Then it's met.

[Allen]

You sure? You weren't sure?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm positive. I'm not positive of what the Mets are going to do.

[Allen]

Nobody is right now. You know the Mets aren't positive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dicky. Love Ladies is now.

[Richard Loveladies]

Oh, yeah.

[Allen]

Love Ladies.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's all going to be coming together. Richard Loveladies has been called up. They sent Alvarez down. They sent a cunha down.

[Allen]

They signed Richard. Lovely.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they signed free agent Love Ladies.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he wants to go as Dicky. Okay. Now, Dicky, you know Dickie Thawne. Remember him?

[Allen]

I remember Dicky Thon. Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, of course we had ra. Dicky.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When I saw Young with the Mets. I don't know if he's angling there or, you know, he just loves the ladies. But he's going to be a Met. And the Mets have all kinds of problems with their bullpen. And they lost two out of three to Philadelphia, which isolated. It's not that big of a deal.

[Allen]

How was that game last night? Come on. Oh, come on, come on. Yesterday? No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you get blown out on Friday. You got what right now is your best pitcher with everybody heard, and he melts down in the fourth inning. And you'll end up losing that game 7 to 1. Lindor hits a meaningless home run which ends the streak of games. The Mets win when Lindor hits a home run. But it's really about getting swept by the Braves. And then you lose two out of three. And then you went on Saturday going away. But you know, seven solo home runs. You know how hard that is to do? It's seven home run. They're all solo shots. And then you end up spitting a bit last night on espn. So we'll see if the Mets can turn things around at Citi Field. And if you're going to the game, man, hydrate yourself. Pittsburgh. Did you see in Pittsburgh? They said they're gonna get free water. Well, that's gonna be hot.

[Richard Loveladies]

We'll see if you got tonight. At some point you gotta start giving free water, right? How can you expect people to give?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Otherwise you're gonna deal. Listen, should people be more responsible and not drink? But you get people that don't realize they gotta hydrate. And then you're gonna have dehydrated people. And God forbid people that get sick and die. So you know what? Give some free waters out so that doesn't become an issue for them and see if they do it at Citi Field tonight. But I wanted to bring this up. So Clark Schmidt has got a no hitter. Three seven. And that was Saturday, right?

[Allen]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Nine nothing game.

[Allen]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And 103 pitches through seven. So Boone takes him out. And we live in a world now where, you know, back in the day, because I remember with, with K, even before Peter joined, this would be like the open of the show. They're ruining baseball. How are they doing this? Taking guys out? The no hitters become obsolete now. How accepting people are now. Oh well, he threw 103 pitches. What are you going to do?

[Allen]

Career high.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can't have him throw that many pitches, Don. I mean, it's only a no hitter.

[Allen]

We've been trained to feel this way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I'm telling you it's bogus. And I'm going to, I'm going to tell you.

[Allen]

Why is it bright?

[Peter Rosenberg]

The whole pitch count? Stupidity. So he starts warming up, right? Every pitcher. I was a starting pitcher in high school and a little bit in college. You warm up in the bullpen before the game. How many pitches you throw? I don't know, 20, 25, 30, a billion. I have no idea how many he threw. All right, and he throws eight pitches each inning before the game starts. Then he threw the 103 through 7. So how many pitches did he throw on Saturday? 200 pitches. But another 10 he'll. His brain will explode.

[Allen]

But wait a minute.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'll be like scanners.

[Allen]

But he's not throwing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, stop it. Stop it. And these guys still get hurt. And they still get hurt. If they didn't get hurt, then I'd say, you know what, they're on to something. These guys still end up getting hurt. He would have to pulled that ball from my cold dead hands. If I had a no hitter through seven innings for 103 pitches, they'd have to stab me in the chest to take the ball away from me. And I'm not killing Clark Schmidt. He doesn't have a dog in the fight because he can't do anything about it. He doesn't have a say because that's when it's all organized and understood ahead of time. But I would be like, listen, I'm throwing because I don't know if I'm going to pitch another no hitter again.

[Allen]

He said that. He said that you don't know when you're going to get Back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But if he starts the eighth inning and he ends up throwing seven pitches, gets out of it, then we're going to have to pull him out of after 110 pitches. So what? He threw like 200 pitches on Saturday between the warmups to start the game. The eight pitches he throws between each inning. And all of a sudden we fine tuned it, Peter. To the point that if he throws 104 pitches, scanners, these eyeballs blow out of his head and he just drops dead on the mound. And meanwhile, so we got to stop because we don't want that. There's kids watching. So we get him out of the game at 103 pitches and Mark my words, God forbid he'll still end up having Tommy John. He'll still end up in the il. You know why? Because he's a pitcher and they all get hurt. Yeah, the Jabba rules. Oh, the Jabba rules were moronic. Oh, at least we can't throw him that many innings. He'll die. I'm telling you, kid, he'll die. But we can't. We gotta watch him. Oh, but if the postseason starts, he can throw until his arm flies. Doesn't matter, because God knows when it's October, he. He won't harm him. He'll be in a ball.

[Richard Loveladies]

Well, God respects October.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, well, also. And then guess what happened to Jabba?

[Allen]

He went on a trampoline.

[Peter Rosenberg]

God hurt. They all get hurt.

[Allen]

Can't throw. Can't throw 100 pitches. But he can jump on a trampoline though, Peter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, but Halliburton, his. His Achilles is going to explode. And he plays game six and he plays game seven because he's a player. He plays. But no, we don't want their eyeballs to blow out of their sockets. Can't have him throw 104 pitches, Peter. His armpits will ca.

[Allen]

Don, let me explain to you though. You remember when Johan Santana was left in the game? Yeah, we don't remember when that happened. We can't have that happen again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was like 140 pitches. Let's have him play six, because if he throws more than six, he might die.

[Allen]

That's what they're afraid of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

First of all, we have no idea if that's why Johan Santana got hurt. Probably. But he threw like 140 pitches. I understand at some point that's too many, but how many times did he throw? Oh, he threw on his off day. He threw warming up. He threw between pages. He probably threw 500 pitches last week. But 5:01. Forget it. He'll drop dead on the mount.

[Richard Loveladies]

Yeah, you can't do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Stop it. I'm just. You're ruining the. Sports isn't fun anymore. Sports is not fun where people are like, oh, you know, Halliburton shouldn't have played. Shouldn't have played because he'll miss all next year. But meanwhile, it's the NBA Finals, for God's sakes. All right? And now I'm pitching a no hitter through seven at Yankee Stadium. A dream. So I can't go out for the eighth. Maybe I get lucky and I only throw three pitches or four pitches, if you watch seventh.

[Allen]

He had to throw a lot of pitches just to get out of that seventh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So what? Let him fail on his own and in the first pitch, because you don't even want. I'm not even a Yankee fan.

[Allen]

Oh, my God.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I went through it a couple of years ago with the Mets. I don't even want you stupid no hitter. If, like six pitchers have to do it.

[Allen]

Oh, yeah. I don't believe in it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the second he gave up the hit to start the eighth day, it's like, good, you know, get it over.

[Allen]

But did you see what happened, though? Did you see? He had called strike three, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Allen]

They did not give him the check swing. It was clearly not a check.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was not invested in it.

[Allen]

Oh, my God. Well, I wanted to see, because you know how it is. You're going to take my guy out who's thrown a no hitter now. I want to see what happens. They're not gonna lose. It's a nine run right. Nine run lead. But is this thing gonna blow up now? Because the one thing I think that Girardi was saying in the broadcast, I believe was Gerardi, is that Boone will. It'll. This will bother him all night. He won't sleep tonight making this decision. He said he won't sleep tonight making this decision. And they did it to David Cohn before David Cohen had his.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he was coming because he was.

[Allen]

Coming back from his injury. So he said, like, that was not easy to do either. But the point is, is that I'm watching just to see, do they at least preserve the no hitter for the team? At least that. Right. And they don't based on the fact that he didn't get a check swing. And so I'm thinking this, if that happened with Schmidt on the mound, how big of a story is that with a first base umpire is going to say no? And the very next pitch, base hit like that's what I thought. What I thought was, oh my God, if that first base umpire made that decision and Schmidt is still on the mount.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, holy crap.

[Allen]

This is a big story. But it became almost like an afterthought because it wasn't. He wasn't on the mount. They almost took it. Took. Took him off the hook. But it was a terrible call. And we've seen a no hitter lost because of a bad call at first base. I'm not mistaken. Right? Well, that was famously. Help me out. Come on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why is it Galarraga?

[Allen]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was a perfect game they ruined.

[Allen]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They had replay. They would. You would have the perfect game.

[Allen]

Right. But so, so that. That caught my attention more than anything. The fact that. That the no hitter was broken up by a bad call anyways.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But trash. But, but so you. So.

[Allen]

But I was invested very much. But I was annoyed. But you know what happened? I found myself almost explaining it to myself of why, yeah, that's a lot of pitches and you're going to need him and it's too early in the season and if he misses another star, you got to save the kid from himself. Like you're hearing the explaining happening during the broadcast. And I'm not blaming Michael or Gerard. They have to do it because they were telling you this is coming. But they were telling you it was coming. They're taking him out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Michael does it too. The whole Johan saying that was 135, 140 pitches. A different world.

[Allen]

But his career almost pretty much ended.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. But it ended anyway because that's how all these pitchers always end up getting hurt. You treat them with kid gloves and they end up still getting hurt. Now if he's coming off an injury, if he doesn't have it, it's a different story. But one of the great things about watching a 9 nothing baseball game is a guy's got a no hitter going.

[Allen]

Well, the only reason why anybody stayed in the building was because it was a no hitter. It's not nothing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that was a really cool thing, which by the way, they still happen. I'm surprised they happen as much as they do because nobody throws complete games anymore and because of situations like what happened to Schmidt on Saturday. But they don't happen with the kind of regularity anymore. And it's a chance to make history. I'm telling you, I would not be cool with it. But as a player, as a player and the guy, if you're telling me this is it because the analytics are never wrong, but these guys End up getting hurt anyway. They all get hurt. So you got a chance to do something special. He can't at least go out there for the eighth inning.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If he throws 20 pitches and gets out of it, it's like, all right, listen, now that it's a little bit too much now, it's ridiculous. But to shut it down, and you know why they're shutting it down is because they know we don't want him throwing any more pitch. He probably could get through the eighth inning. So we'll pull him out in the seventh inning and he'll feel good that he didn't allow me, rather than giving it up in the eighth inning and not getting a chance to pitch it up.

[Allen]

I was thinking about this because this is, this goes off to what Clint Frazier was saying on that podcast last week. And it's not just the Yankees. It's really all of sports analytics and numbers and all that stuff. Doesn't value a no hitter. It's a win. There's no extra value in no hitting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I understand.

[Allen]

It's just a win. No, no. So think about it. You remove all emotion and it's. The one argument I have against the idea of living and dying through the analytics is that you take away the human element. And the problem is this. There are, there's no. You can't quantify momentum. You can't quantify crowd noise. You can't quantify. The guy is. Doesn't feel right today. How many of us just, just a day. I just don't feel right today. But you. Analytics don't. They can't quantify that.

[Richard Loveladies]

Right. That's not in there.

[Allen]

There's no, like they say, they don't believe in hot.

[Richard Loveladies]

No.

[Allen]

But yet, you know, like anybody else, you feel it.

[Richard Loveladies]

No.

[Allen]

Hot.

[Richard Loveladies]

No hot. No clutch.

[Allen]

Right?

[Richard Loveladies]

No.

[Allen]

And clutch, by the way, there is such a thing as clutch. In fact, the NBA has a stat.

[Richard Loveladies]

No, they haven't.

[Allen]

They figured out a way to do it clutch. So if you're telling me there's no analytics for clutch, but yet we have stats for clutch, that, that, that, that, that's a contrast in beliefs. So I don't understand that kind of thinking. But anybody that's wondering, why don't you leave them in there for the no hitter? It's because analytics does not view a no hitter as a more valuable win than a win. A wins, a wins a win. It's all they care about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a human being who has a chance to do something special. And you want to have that opportunity. We go back to the beginning of the show where Tom Brady joked with Peter about, I would have won 90 to 7 if I could against the Redskins back in that game. You know, you don't want to embarrass the opponent, but at the end of the day, isn't it entertainment? Wouldn't have been special to see a quarterback go out there and break the record for touchdowns.

[Richard Loveladies]

I remember I wouldn't have enjoyed it on that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you wouldn't have. But so what? You stop him. Like, I always argued that. I think it was against the Bears, of course. Like, Aaron Rodgers threw like seven touchdown passes and they pulled him in the second half. Like, throw eight, throw nine, break the record. Why not? Well, we feel bad for the Bears. They're getting paid. They're getting paid to stop you. All of a sudden. This is youth sports. I don't want to embarrass my opponent.

[Richard Loveladies]

You know what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got a quarterback that could do something that no quarterback has ever done in the history of football. And I got a whole audience of people that want to see it happen. But we're not going to do it because we don't want to embarrass the Bears.

[Allen]

Thank you for saying that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Stupid.

[Allen]

Thank you for saying.

[Richard Loveladies]

And thank you for bringing up my good friend Tom Brady.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We just all.

[Allen]

When he get him on, by the way, now that you guys.

[Richard Loveladies]

You know what?

[Allen]

I gotta get him on.

[Richard Loveladies]

I'm reach out.

[Allen]

Yeah, Gonna send him a text.

[Richard Loveladies]

I can't find my phone. Boy, as soon as I find. I'm gonna reach out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes you don't. These the things that are right in front of you.

[Allen]

Yeah. Literally, though.

[Richard Loveladies]

No, but I'm glad you.

[Allen]

I am glad you brought that up, though, because it is something that we don't talk about nearly enough. But it's a. It's a real thing. The fact that there are paid customers here to see something and something special they'll talk about. And you know what else that's good for business? They'll tell other people. And those people are going to wish they were there enough to say, you know what? We should go to a game. Because when you go to these games, stuff like that could happen. But now in baseball, you could go to a game five innings in and go, wait, there's a zero under hits. Yeah, don't worry about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now the new thing about baseball is how many pitches is he throwing thrown, Is he gonna get a chance to finish this?

[Allen]

So those people left.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And if he doesn't now, if the guy's got Like a hundred pitches through five innings. Click. He's not gonna be able to stick around, so forget it.

[Allen]

Well, they were telling us that in the broadcast. They were already letting you know that this is probably not gonna last, so you could get up and leave if you want. I don't blame them, because they gotta tell you this, but I'm also talking about if I'm running the business, and I'm saying, wait a minute. My building's got people in it. It's a million degrees. They have every reason to leave. It's nine, nothing. But they're staying. Why? For that. And when you took them out, I had two innings left, and they left instead of stayed for two more innings of whatever they were going to spend on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the arrogance of saying, this is the line of demarcation. I understand. Again, a guy comes off the il, hasn't pitched in a couple of weeks, he's got a 75 pitch count because we don't want to put him in harm's way. I know Schmidt, you know, is coming off, but he's pitched a few starts since then. He threw 103 pitches. So you're telling me 110, 115. That would have been too much because you're looking at the number again. He threw in the seven innings, how many did he throw in warmups? How many did he throw when he was warming up in the game? How many did he throw in his throw day? Like you. Like that many pitches? Are we going to now find out? Because that's what these analytic people will tell you is, oh, yeah, statistics show that if he throws 105 pitches, he's got a. He's got a 13.4% chance of injuring himself more than if he throws less than 100. Well, then why don't you take him out after the sixth? You already threw more pitches than he's ever thrown before, so why didn't you take him out after the sixth?

[Allen]

Good point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you were hoping because he did throw a lot of pitches in the seventh inning, that maybe you could have squeezed him out before he got to 103. So it was important until all of a sudden, it didn't become important.

[Allen]

The fact that he threw a lot of pitches in the seventh cost him the eighth. I don't know if it cost him the ninth, but it definitely cost him the eighth. He also, by the way, just speaking of Schmidt, his last couple of starts, he's been lights out. Yeah, lights out. 29 and a third scoreless innings. It's something like he has been unreal lately. Which is good to see after a slow start.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's go to Griffin in Connecticut. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Griff?

[Griffin]

Hey, guys. I understand what you're do what you're saying. First off, before I get to that, Allen, you're doing the NBA draft on the radio. Is that the first time you've done that?

[Allen]

Oh, no, this is year four, actually.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Richard Loveladies]

Oh yeah.

[Griffin]

Oh, oh, I did not know.

[Richard Loveladies]

So you can luxuriate maybe. Maybe sit in the pool, relax yourself. Griffin.

[Allen]

And then 8 o' clock Wednesday, myself, P.J. carlissimo, Seth Greenberg and Corey Alexander. We've been doing it together. This would be four years.

[Richard Loveladies]

Well, we'll be able to hear it right here. I believe we have Mets baseball.

[Allen]

Probably have Mets baseball. 1050, I believe. Yeah. And also on the ESPN.

[Griffin]

Be on the ESPN app.

[Allen]

On the ESPN app, for sure. Yes, absolutely.

[Griffin]

I want to talk about. I understand what you guys are saying and maybe, maybe here's another reason that it could have been that game was more like it was been a. It was a grind all game long for him. He had to grind in the first inning too, where he walked the first two batters. He threw a lot of pitches in the first inning. He grind again in the seventh. He had some struggles in a couple of innings. So maybe they were looking at. He was grinding through the whole game. He. I don't even. I also, I also think he's never pitched deep in the ninth in his whole career. He's never gone to the ninth. So I don't know if I think that maybe was a part. And also he's had an injury last year and an injury this year. Could they be playing in. In that although where they don't want everything is cautioned.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All of, all of that is true. All of it's true. But once you're going to get to 100 pitches and what ended up being 103, you're telling me another 10 more that's going to be too much like you've. You've figured it out to the pitch that he can't go over. Come on. Now I get the whole argument. Well, Don, if you do that and he throws 10 and he gets through eight with a no hitter, boy, it's going to look bad to pull him out at 9. But, but if he's feeling okay. Is it. I don't know if you could really get to that certainty again. If it's 140, 150 pitches now you're getting ridiculous. I get that. But 100. 313. No way. Let him start the eighth inning. Maybe he gets a quick 1, 2, 3 inning, maybe he doesn't. He ends up throwing 20 pitches. And then it becomes obvious, you know what? At 123 pitches, there's no way this can continue. You pull him out or let him give up the hit. Let him get himself into some trouble. I just hate the whole thing.

[Richard Loveladies]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. It's okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and everyone in your life. June is mental health awareness month, and men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, to keep it all together. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year. And it's often undiagnosed. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. As the largest online provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with better help our listeners get 10 off their first [e-mail] timeout. That's betterhelp.com timeout.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Richard Loveladies]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Before we shift to the Mets, you.

[Allen]

Have the quote from I was reading some of the things from Saturday night. If I tell you this is what Clark Schmidt said and you tell me if it changes your opinion, Don, he said, obviously I want to go as deep as I can. But when you're at the 103 mark, meaning pitches, and you have two more innings to go and you have 80 more games to go, you've got to think bigger picture. Is it worth throwing 130 pitches? I had a lot of adrenaline in the last inning. I also felt like I was emptying the tank.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I think he's going to toe the company line because he's a good teammate and he's not going to throw his manager and the philosophy of the team under the bus. I think a lot of these pitchers have been brainwashed to believe that after 100 pitches, all bets are off. And you could be taking that at any moment. So he probably knew that and wasn't surprised by it. So I'm not mad at Aaron Boone. I'm not mad at Clark Schmidt for accepting the situation. I'm just mad that it exists in the first place and everybody does it. I'm sure Peterson didn't have it last night. He obviously got shelled in the fourth inning. But second time around, I am sure that if Peterson was in the same situation, Mendoza would have done the same thing. I just think it's the general philosophy of baseball. We all point to Johan Santana.

[Allen]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who was an older player, you know, 13 years ago that ended up damaging his career, if we know that for a fact and probably led to it. But we're talking like 135, 140 pitches. And I do think that at 130 pitches, that would have been malpractice. But at 103, with six outs to go nine nothing, you know, is it possible that, you know, the Orioles could go down four or five pitches? They're not interested in working counts. They're down nine nothing. If it's a one nothing game, I can understand that. Maybe it's a little bit of an historic high leverage. Maybe you get out of the eighth inning throwing six pitches and now it's 109. And then you see what happens in the ninth inning. And maybe you get out at 115 or 120 and you say, okay. But of course, if he gets hurt, it'll be, oh, he got hurt because Boone pushed him on that Saturday at Yankee Stadium against the Orioles. Meanwhile, he might get hurt again anyway. He's been hurt the last two years.

[Allen]

But he's been so good and he's in a great groove. You think about all that stuff. But you know what it does tell you? It does tell you that no hitters are now even harder to get than ever before because of this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. And I know it's team, team, team and all that, but I was, I was just disappointed for Yankee fans because that could have been a pretty cool moment. And what was just a, you know, pedestrian nine nothing. Now, Mets dropped two out of three to Philly. The only game they won was Saturday, seven solo home runs. And might have been one of the best games that Soto ever played.

[Richard Loveladies]

Well, yeah, certainly his best here.

[Allen]

And that was a hell of an inning too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you know, they're not getting any pitching. And after getting swept by Atlanta and the Braves come in for a four game series starting tonight at Citi Field, they sent Alvarez down and, you know, you're Hearing rumors he wants to get traded. I don't know what to tell you. What are we supposed to do? You're not hitting. You're not playing your position properly. This team is hoping to win a championship. These are the things that they can do. They control and get them right. Get them right. Exactly.

[Allen]

Look, he's supposed to be mad, and that's fine.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I get it. But you don't have to get him right. Threatening trade. If those rumors are true, what are.

[Allen]

You going to have? He has no control.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he doesn't.

[Allen]

Wants to be true. Okay, great. You know, but go down there and work now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, go work. And that way we get you right. Love you. Stay. Yeah, right.

[Allen]

Like, that's the way it's supposed to be. Got to get you right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Acuna is down, too, because again, they're getting no production of the bottom of the order. They're not using them now, and they're not using them.

[Allen]

Want to hear some numbers on the bottom of the order?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, shoot.

[Allen]

Yeah, it's awful. It's very bad. I got some great advice from somebody today who's a big Mets fan and said, you got to look at the bottom of the order lately, and that's. That's their problem. So we took a look at it. So Alvarez, as you mentioned, last five games, is batting.167, is one RBI. Beatty, as we know, is another one who's really struggled. Right. Last five games, he's hitting, oh, six, seven. And then Mauricio, who looks overmatched in eight games.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's very weird at times. And then he'll, like, stroke a home run. It's weird.

[Allen]

Well, he has one home run, but in eight games, batting.154, this is the bottom of your order. These are all young players. They are overwhelmed right now. There's a lot of pressure on them, and it's clear they're getting no production out of the bottom. They've got to rethink this. Obviously, they have some young players. They were trying to give them a chance to take to win the job and do what they can. They can't. They've got. You can't just keep going to the well and hoping they'll figure it out. At some point, you got to take the pressure off, take care of them as prospects and try to get them right with some. You might have to just look at it and say, maybe it's just there's no there there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That might be with bait.

[Allen]

Yeah, that's what you're worried about. But they have to make that kind of acknowledgement as an organization. It seems like they are starting to do that right now. And now I think, as we're a month from trade deadline for baseball, is that it does put some pressure, I think, on Stearns to understand that while you guys aren't investing a lot in starting pitching, obviously, that you have Montas and you have Benaia and you're hoping Senga said he's feeling better, that they'll be bringing him along and you'll get him back at some point. But they are going to want bullpen help. But they really got to reconsider everything at the bottom of that order. That's too freaking good at the top to have that week of a bottom. I mean, 067, you can't have that over a stretch of a week of games.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, you know, injury has led to it as well. So Vientos has been out and Vientos is supposed to be your everyday third baseman. And he did. Obviously, he struggled early this year, but, you know, he had a big postseason last year. But one of the reasons why Beatty went back to third and then eventually, you know, they called up Mauricio is because of the injury to Vientos, who they're getting back. So I don't say you got to go out and get a third baseman, you know, make sure Vientos.

[Allen]

Well, you got to hope he's the guy, though. You know, he's the guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You have Montas coming back in this series against Atlanta. It looks like Mania is close. He retired 14 straight batters in Syracuse the other day. So you get that's going to help the rotation. Hopefully Senka comes off the illness with that injury and he's okay. So I do think they're getting guys back. So I'm not quite ready to panic just yet. Remember, Philly just came off losing eight of nine.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So maybe this is just the way baseball is, is that you're going to have to go through your rough patch. But to the Howie Roses of the world who continue to tweet, it's like, I remember last year, they were out of it. Look what happened. It's a long season then. Then you know what? Let's not pay attention to baseball then. Let's just. Let's just periodically, every once a month we'll do. We'll do an MLB binge once a month. We'll do it like on the 15th of each month. We'll check in on the team, see how everybody's doing, and then we'll really take it seriously, in September. And if the teams are out of it, we'll just look, we'll talk football.

[Allen]

How do you feel about that as a fan? Like, Peter says this all the time. Oh, it's too early. It's too early. It's too early. If you're not allowed to react as a fan, what do you do?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, what are you supposed to do? The whole idea of being a fan.

[Allen]

Is game to game, you're gonna react. That was good. That was bad. That was good. That was bad. Wait, that was too bad. Now that's three bad. That was six bad. That's really bad.

[Richard Loveladies]

It's very hard to react.

[Allen]

I can't react, though. I'm not allow to be emotional because I'm told it's too soon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is.

[Richard Loveladies]

It is an odd thing of where is the line you draw in baseball of now it's time because now we have to agree. Yeah, you don't need to go into panic mode, I suppose, but something's going on with the Mets. They are not playing good baseball. They are in trouble. There was, there was a minute ago, guys, where we were really thinking and talking about World Series, and now, I'm not saying that's out of your mind, but you're going, hey, can we get first place back like that? That is something.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're in first place for the second time in the last month. You've fallen out of first place.

[Allen]

Well, here you are, Braves are back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And let's get some revenge.

[Richard Loveladies]

Yeah, and now. But now you have four games with the Braves, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Richard Loveladies]

And what if somehow this is a disaster? You let the Braves back in, then. Then you're really in trouble.

[Allen]

I'll tell you what, they lose this series, which would be, obviously, they lose three out of four, right? They lose this, you don't think, you don't think your finger moves to the panic button. Close.

[Richard Loveladies]

Oh, it has to.

[Allen]

Closer. Well, it's got to. I know it's June, but it's almost July.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the argument is going to be at least to start the series right, you've got Blackburn tonight. You've got Montas coming back pitching for the first time this year. So you're losing the pitching matchups the first couple of games of the series, as you did in the Philly series. But, you know, the offense needs to do a better job too. Again, they had the explosion with the seven solo home runs on Saturday, but they're not tearing the COVID off the ball. They scored one run yesterday. You didn't do anything back on Friday.

[Allen]

What was the one run was Lindor home run, which breaks the streak of what, 28 straight games when he's homeward. They've won.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They've won.

[Allen]

So that's out of the, out of the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's now over. And you scored two runs on Friday, so you're not getting any production offensively. And it isn't just all about the pitching, although the pitching hasn't been great and the bullpen hasn't been great. So I agree. Last year I probably went too far in June saying, I think you got to sell off. But I did say before, I said trade off. They got to show me something and then they eventually did. So, yeah, full blown panic. Trade everybody, fire everybody. That's ridiculous. It's too early for that.

[Allen]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But if I'm going to watch every day and I'm going to get excited when they rattle off six in a row like they did before they went into this tailspin, if I'm going to celebrate that, then that means I got to show at least a little concern when I see my team isn't winning games. And again, losing to the Atlanta Braves again. And if you lose this series at home to the Braves, who by the way, aren't really tearing the COVID off the ball. They swept the Mets, but they really haven't done anything outside of that, then it becomes a bit of an issue because I'm hold this team went to game six of the league championship series last year. So whether you believe it or not, and you added the best, one of the best players in baseball and Soto during the off season is that you're, you're measuring them up to being a championship caliber team.

[Allen]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And if you don't see that over a series, okay. But now it's, it's like a two week span like this. That was last Friday. So we're dipping into week two of poor play.

[Allen]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think I have the right to ask, is this a championship team and what are you going to do about it? Because the trade deadline's not that far away. So the next six weeks are going to be very interesting.

[Allen]

All right, so let me ask you about Alvarez. Now. Let's go a little bit deeper in on a catcher who's they. They thought was going to be special, an all star caliber talent that you had, and now they send them down. What's that sign? Is that a sign that they, they have? Like, do you look at it as the Volpe stuff really bothered me last week how many fans were ready to just start to Ship him out. They are done with him. This guy stinks. He's not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There you go, baby.

[Allen]

He's not worth it. And I feel like we do this too much with young players in this market. In other places, a young player could come up, struggle a little bit, put him in the minors, work with him, teach him, develop them, let him just take a reset. Because there's a lot of pressure when you play on a high level team like this. And sometimes you do too much and you get ahead of your skis. Is that how you say it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Over years.

[Allen]

All right, whatever it is, is that simply all it is for Alvarez or is there. So is there a greater issue that has been found within his game that makes you feel like they're going to have to find themselves a catcher? This guy might not be it. Because I feel like it's way too early in the go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's. And he also had the ham bait bone injury which, which hurt him in the beginning of the year. So he is coming off an injury injury. But we were sold when he was first called up, if you remember, at the end of 22, they called him up and he really struggled. I think he was over 8. He was just in over his head. But we were told this is a kid that can hit. Just. He's got to work on his catching. So far, for the most part, with the exception of that brain fart the other day against the Braves, he's been a good defensive catcher. He hasn't just lived up to the expectations consistently of being a really good.

[Allen]

Hitter in the playoffs. He struggled.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. And so now you go in, comes off the injury, comes back, he's hitting a buck fifty, making poor decisions behind the plate. You have options. Let him go down there and work it out.

[Allen]

Thank you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know. Cause Terence is a nice catcher, but he shouldn't. He's not the guy.

[Allen]

But you have the key thing you said there that I think people need to understand is you have options. Use them. Why? Either if you bench him, he's not getting better. Right. If he's a backup, he's not getting better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Because when you bench a catcher, they're going to have to play.

[Allen]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. Terence can't. Especially with this heat when you have no days off, like so you can't hide your backup catcher. He's got to play.

[Allen]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

As Austin Roman was saying not too long ago. Right. You can't hide as a backup catcher. So let him get his reps down in Syracuse.

[Allen]

That's how I feel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And get better.

[Allen]

Because get right. Get your confidence up. Get right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because play an Alvarez playing well to me is going to lead to a championship. Alvarez not playing well tells me I need to catch her, and that's tough to find. I don't want to have to do that. 1-800-919-3776. Baseball is on the table. Kevin in Queens. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Kevin?

[Kevin]

Hey, good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking the call.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Always.

[Kevin]

Yeah, and I appreciate it, man. Yeah. Listen, Mets fan, you know, important series. I'm not gonna say critical series, because I hate to beat the dead. You know, the hoes down there, for example, like, we. There's. There's a lot of baseball left. Right. But it is important because it's. It's a division game. The Braves just swept us. We're not playing well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Kevin]

Mets are not playing well. All these things. Right. All these injuries. So what is an important series? Yesterday was a really critical game that we should have won. Not saying, like, during the game, we had opportunities, but before the game, that was a critical game because we needed to win that series. So win the series. Get back. Right. Get on the right path. And Alvarez had to go down. Alvarez had to go down. Everything you guys are saying is right. He has to get right. He's gonna go down. I hope it's not true what he's saying about being traded, because we've done the same thing to Vientos. We've done the same thing to Beatty. Mauricio's waited a long time to play. I think Mauricio needs to sit down, and I think they need to play Acuna more.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But they sent him down because they brought Jankowski up, because Jankowski can play a bunch of different positions. He can bring some speed. I. I don't mind him being back.

[Kevin]

The versatility, though. Yeah, the versatility, though. Like, and. And listen, and I. I think they're doing their best. When those are doing his best of shuffling has. I don't remember. I'm 43. I don't remember a time when the Mets had this much young talent. Like, like, and they're not producing, obviously, but, like, all these young guys that we've been hearing about for years are finally up here. I kind of agree with you guys. Like, if they. If they have time, that'll figure it out. But I. I trust that they make the calls, that the front office is making the right call when they're like, this guy's got to go down.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. But it's really. I'm telling you, I dealt with it with the Rangers over the last few. You're a team that's expected to go out there and win a Stanley Cup. But let's develop Kako, let's develop lafreniere, let's develop Keandre Miller. It's very difficult to develop young players and oh, by the way, try to compete for a championship. Met same thing. Trying to get Alvarez going, Vientos going. All right, let's see if Beatty can work. If not, then Mauricio. Let's bring him up. Let's see what he can do. Allen, it's really difficult to do meaningful games. Volpe's going through it too. Oh, we think Volpe's going to be the next Derek Jeter. All right. Go out there and now be a part of a championship caliber team. Go play in a World Series in your second year, be a candidate for Rookie of the Year and you're in.

[Allen]

The postseason immediately in New York. Yeah, usually every move is going to be criticized. Every move is going to be analyzed. Every time you go through every mistake you make, all that stuff. And you saw it, we saw it last week when he had a terrible at Batman and well, I'm sorry, where he had the ground ball that he should have played, that he got stuck and instead of charging and he stopped and that car hit a rock and he was messed up and it caused a run. Then he was up next and you could see him, you could see it in his eyes that he still was thinking about the error while he was at his at bat. And it messed up the at bat to a point where it was a disaster of an at bat. Those are all real things that happen to young players that we never ever want to give time for. It's a crazy thing that fans do. Like I was real critical of Yankee fans about this because all I saw was so much slander on Volpe and I said, you know, we're not.

[Richard Loveladies]

And they were coming after you for defending him too.

[Allen]

I don't even care about that because you know what? The one thing this kid is and he's not Gary Sanchez. He's not Gary Sanchez who has all the talent in the world and put very little work into it.

[Richard Loveladies]

Right.

[Allen]

He's not Gleyber Torres who had all the tools. He had a million. He had million dollar tools and a 10 cent toolbox. Like he did not really think the game. Well, he didn't really. Was not smart about. Like Volpe cares. He puts in the work. He does have tools, but he's gonna make mistakes. And what we do a lot of times is we contradict ourselves. We get mad when the young player makes mistakes. Oh, this guy's not it. Get rid of him and then they'll get rid of him. And you know what you'll say? Oh, you gave up too early on Volpe. We never develop our young players. Which one is it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's hard to develop young players on a team that's trying to win a championship.

[Allen]

Just give the guy a minute.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Very hard to do.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Richard Loveladies]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Back to the Busy phones at 1-800-919-3776. Adam Schefter is going to join us coming up at 5 o' clock. He's got something to promote screening for typography 1 diabetes. So we'll hear from him coming up. And of course, always good to talk NFL.

[Allen]

We got the NFL Binge. He's going to be our feature on the NFL Binge this week. And he doesn't just talk football. He was dialed in last night, Game seven.

[Peter Rosenberg]

ESPN and ABC used him on the sidelines last couple.

[Allen]

He loves.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He knows he's a really big sports guy.

[Allen]

So I'm a big fan of Shifty. Big fan of Shifty.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pharrell on the Parkway. I'm not sure which one you're on. ESPN New York, what's up?

[Allen]

I actually want to know which one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, Garden State. Where are you?

[Josh]

It was the Bronx river, but I'm on the Grand Central now, sitting in traffic.

[Allen]

Oh, God bless you, God.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We have ac. Yeah.

[Josh]

Thanks, fellas. Appreciate you taking my call. Big fan. Just before I get to my point, I wanted to say I knew this pairing or trio rather, was going to work. Years back when K was out because of his throat, Allen got on the show, you guys started talking baseball and prompt a really interesting question. How many Yankee fans are fans of the evil empire versus the actual Yankees? And I didn't think about it. Like, damn, I think I'm an evil Empire fan.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Allen]

Pharrell, that is. That's how you delineate Yankees fans. Which are you? Are you a fan of the evil empire, which means that's a bygone era that we'll probably never see again? Or are you a fan of no matter who they are? Whatever iteration, I'm a fan because I gotta admit, I'm with you, man. Like I was a evil Empire fan. And I'm having, and I'm trying to like the current Yankees, but I'm having a hard time.

[Josh]

Exactly, exactly. Between the style of play and the over reliance on the analytics.

[Allen]

Yes.

[Josh]

Is it's difficult. Which kind of brings me to my point. I've always wanted to ask this question I could never get through before. How is it that these baseball teams believe in sports psychology and the Yankees went so far as to get rid of Girardi because he was too tight and too negative. And bring in Boone who will tell you that is, you know, really they'll say, he'll say it's sugar instead of S. But at the same time they don't believe in clutch. Clutch is just focus and ignoring distractions and repeating your movements. How is it that they can have those two conflicting thoughts and believe in the sports psychology but not believing in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

High and clutch because it's just an easier, brilliant call, more inexpensive way of doing it. I don't even think it's. It's a matter of we don't believe in clutch. But it's not going to make a sway from what the numbers tell us. And the numbers are going to tell us that this is how we should be able to handle this situation rather than going off a feeling or hey, this guy's been on a toot for the last two weeks. Let's take advantage of it. While the numbers say it's still the right thing to pinch hit for him in the eighth inning or it's still the right thing for him to have this launch angle or try to hit home run instead of laying down a bunt, it's too reliant on it. I think it's something that should be utilized. But I think it's become almost a cult now where it has to be. And the reason I say that, Alan, is because it's an easy way to keep, keep your job. Because if you go by the numbers, that's a fail safe for. Well, the numbers tell us that 67.9% of the time it works every time. So why would I go with the, you know, the 32.1% of the time when it tells me that I'm gonna.

[Allen]

Fail, that I can get fired from my gut decision.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Allen]

But I can't get fired when the numbers say look, look, the player failed because historically this is what he's supposed to do, he just didn't do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you brought up like, how does he feel that day? Maybe his wife left him the night before and he's out of whack. Like all these things just following the numbers. They always. It used to be so cliche. Games are not won or lost on paper. Major League Baseball believes they are.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then that's how they're going to handle their business. Josh in New Jersey, you're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg.

[Richard Loveladies]

Hey, Josh.

[H]

Hey, guys. I, I thought the finals were kind of boring because of the style of play. Like it was very much backyard basketball. Let me just run as fast as I can. The Pacers, let me just take as many shots as I can. And then for the Thunder, it's just cool. SG is going to get into the paint. He's going to push off, take the 12 footer, like, okay, I thought it was boring. And I'm worried that because of the second apron, this is where the NBA is going. It's going to be, let me get 10 guys. I can spread the salary around. And we're going to lose this, you know, mano e mano. Superstars going at each other. That is so compelling to watch as a, as a Knick fan who never has a dog in the race. But my quick question is, had Indy pulled it off last night?

[Peter Rosenberg]

D.J.

[H]

Mcconnell, Finals MVP.

[Allen]

He was the only player to score for them in the third quarter, but he was the only player that could get a bucket in the third quarter when the game was slipping away. They would have given it to Siakam. They would again. Halliburton still hurt. I think Siakam would have gotten it. He did not have a great game at all. And they needed to have a great time.

[H]

How does your, how does your best player take. I know, 12 or 13 shots in game seven.

[Allen]

I know it's. You know why nobody wants to say this? Because they all like, we all love. See how come? He's a great guy, really nice guy. The media loves him. People love him for various reasons. Here's why. He didn't get a million leak out layups, because the Thunder wouldn't let him. He didn't have like the notion that he's a great half court scorer is actually bogus because the numbers will tell you he doesn't shoot the ball well in half court offense. He's like 42% from the field, half court. But you know what? He is in fast breaks. He's like 80%. Of course, because it's mostly layups and dunks. Right. He leaks out a ton of. He torched the Knicks on leak outs, tons and tons of them. And so the Thunder did their scouting, knew it was going to happen and made sure he didn't do it. So he really couldn't be the hyper effective player that he normally was. And then when you take Halliburton out, to be fair, they're just going to double him. They're going to bring doubles over, they're going to make sure he doesn't beat them. They're going to try to. They're going to say Matheran beat us, Nismith beat us, and McConnell. Go ahead, McConnell. You beat us too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got to.

[Richard Loveladies]

You know, it is Yakim, though, who.

[Allen]

Would have been MVP There would have been. Yeah, yeah. Because it would have had to have been him if they wanted to get player.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The left impression was Math Mather. Matt Mather. He was.

[Allen]

He had a good. Yeah, he is what he is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I, I just. He plays hard. I just, I really like him.

[Allen]

Yeah, yeah. He's going to make some money. He's going to make some money. They're going to have to make a decision with him. But still, somebody asked this on social media and I'm wondering. I was going to ask Josh, but I'll ask everybody. All right. All right. The series is over. Now, what's your. What's the one lasting impression you have of the series?

[Richard Loveladies]

Takeaway Unmemorable. You mean like a basketball team unremarkable?

[Allen]

No, no. You just was.

[Richard Loveladies]

No, no.

[Allen]

When I say to you the 2025 NBA Finals, what do you remember from it?

[Richard Loveladies]

Nothing.

[Allen]

Burger, you're going to say Halliburton's injury.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, probably. That's it.

[Allen]

Game seven. Halliburton got hurt. What else happened?

[Richard Loveladies]

I would say even more than that. I would be like, it was mostly boring. Then I thought it might be good for game seven, but then Halliburton got hurt, so it never got good.

[Allen]

If there's one moment, it erases the game.

[Richard Loveladies]

One moment, which I thought was a really good moment.

[Allen]

Every finals has like that signature moment. Right Then some of them are iconic. The Chase. Chase got down block. The Steph Curry turnaround three. But there are finals. Everyone has something. This had an injury that was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We knew going into game seven that game seven was going to probably be our lasting impression of this series.

[Allen]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I don't think the loss of Halliburton cost the Pacers the game because I still think the Thunder would win the game anyway. But it cost us our moment because then it would have been competitive. Something would have happened that would have been memorable. Thunder hit a game winning shot, something. And we got robbed of that because it was at one point it was like they had a 21 point lead in the fourth quarter.

[Allen]

Yeah. Yeah, it was done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was. It was pretty much over.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Allen]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.