Hour 2: Rings & The List

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 2: Rings & The List

Release Date: June 18, 2025

In the second hour of the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast, hosts Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve deep into the significance of championship rings in evaluating the greatness of athletes. Titled "Rings & The List," this episode explores the nuanced debate surrounding individual excellence versus team success, particularly focusing on New York's top athletes who never secured a championship ring.

---

1. The Significance of Championship Rings in Defining Greatness

The episode kicks off with a robust discussion on the role of championship rings in determining an athlete's legacy. The hosts debate whether true greatness can be measured without the ultimate team achievement.

• Don La Greca introduces the topic by highlighting Connor McDavid's impressive statistics:

  "Connor McDavid's got 10, 82 points in 10 years. Mike Bossi's third with 11, 26. Mario Lemieux is third, is second with 12, 11. And then Wayne Gretzky, 18, 37." [02:22]

• Peter Rosenberg emphasizes the importance of rings by comparing sports:

  "It's like saying Peyton Manning can't be in the same room with Brett Favre or Mahomes because he only has one ring." [03:03]

2. Comparing Championships Across Different Sports

The conversation transitions to how different sports value championships. The hosts discuss the unique challenges in hockey, basketball, and football regarding team dynamics and championship opportunities.

• Don La Greca points out the evolving nature of the NHL playoffs:

  "The sport's different. There's more teams. You play best of seven now for four rounds." [02:03]

• Peter Rosenberg critiques the NBA's ring culture influenced by LeBron James:

  "LeBron is trying to change the narrative because he creates the ring culture by chasing them." [03:38]

3. LeBron James and the Evolution of Ring Culture

A significant portion of the discussion centers around LeBron James and his impact on the perception of championships in the NBA.

• Peter Rosenberg argues that LeBron has exacerbated the ring-chasing culture:

  "He created the ring culture by chasing them, right? By leaving teams to join forces with one intention, to win a championship." [03:52]

• Don La Greca counters by emphasizing individual effort within team constraints:

  "Team's not good enough. They didn't have a good goaltender. That's their problem." [09:42]

4. Transition to "The List": Top Five New York Athletes Without Rings

Shifting gears, the hosts announce the segment "The List," where they rank the top five New York athletes who never won a championship. This list aims to honor athletes whose individual talents were overshadowed by team shortcomings.

---

5. Top Five New York Athletes Who Never Won a Ring

1. Patrick Ewing (Timestamp: 29:14)
A basketball legend for the New York Knicks, Ewing is lauded for his exceptional skill and leadership. Despite his illustrious career, he never secured an NBA Championship, which often dims his legacy in discussions about the greatest players.

2. Roger Ball (Timestamp: 28:37)
Known as the most prolific goal scorer for the New York Rangers, Ball's career was marked by outstanding performances but lacked the ultimate team success of winning a Stanley Cup.

3. Henrik Lundquist (Timestamp: 28:24)
Despite being one of the top goaltenders of his generation and a Hall of Famer, Lundquist never captured a Stanley Cup, representing another high-caliber athlete without a championship ring.

4. Joe Klekka (Timestamp: 28:01)
A versatile defensive lineman for the New York Jets, Klekka's career was distinguished by his Pro Bowl selections across multiple positions. However, he never won a Super Bowl, placing him on the list of greats without rings.

5. Curtis Martin (Timestamp: 27:22)
An illustrious running back for the New York Jets, Martin's outstanding career includes numerous accolades and a Hall of Fame induction. Nonetheless, he never achieved a Super Bowl victory, earning him the fifth spot on the list.

---

6. Audience Calls and Ongoing Debates

Throughout the episode, listeners contribute their opinions via phone calls, sparking lively debates about who deserves a spot on the list and the fairness of equating rings with greatness.

• Caller Chris argues against labeling athletes without rings as less great:

  "It's all about winning a championship. To consider yourself the greatest, you got to win a champion." [37:07]

• Don La Greca and Peter Rosenberg discuss the balance between individual talent and team success, considering various scenarios where talented players could potentially secure rings under different circumstances.

7. Concluding Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the complexity of measuring athletic greatness solely based on championship rings. They acknowledge the importance of team dynamics, player contributions, and situational factors that influence championship outcomes.

• Don La Greca emphasizes the need for nuance:

  "We just want people to understand that rings aren't the end-all-be-all, but they do carry significant weight in legacy discussions." [15:20]

• Peter Rosenberg reaffirms the accountability and team success aspect:

  "In professional sports, there is accountability to team success, and it should be the most important thing of your career." [37:52]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Championship Rings Matter: Rings are a tangible measure of success in team sports, influencing how players are remembered and celebrated.

• Individual vs. Team Success: Great individual performance doesn't always translate to championships due to various team and situational factors.

• Impact of Super Teams: The creation of super teams, exemplified by LeBron James' moves, has intensified the focus on championship rings in evaluating player greatness.

• Honoring Unsung Greats: The "List" segment highlights the importance of recognizing athletes who excelled individually but lacked team success, ensuring their legacies remain celebrated.

For fans and listeners who haven't tuned into the episode, this summary encapsulates the rich discussions and debates that make Don, Hahn & Rosenberg a must-listen for sports enthusiasts.

Transcript

[Don La Greca]

With a Venmo debit card, you can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Need gas?

[Don La Greca]

You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch? You can Venmo this or their next show. You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that. You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that. You can Venmo the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by Mastercard International, Inc. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is the Dime Hahn at Rosenberg Podcast.

[Don La Greca]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don La Greca]

4:00 clock at the big city Don Han and rosenberg hour. Number one in the books. Take it up until 6:30. At that point we'll hand it off to mets and braves. 4:30. We got a list and it's going to be a list that has a lot to do with our next topic of conversation last night. Whether you were interested or not. The Stanley cup final over Florida wins back to back cups. Connor McDavid now still without that elusive championship. We suck after going game seven last year. But let's not forget that game seven masked what was a fact. They had to come back from three nothing down, right? So it wasn't a classic series and Florida kind of play with their food and then eventually had to play game seven. Kind of similar this year in the sense that Florida's two losses came in overtime and they were all for their wins were in dominant fashion including last night. I was left empty because I wanted a classic and we didn't get it. Not even close. So that started the conversation about all right, Connor McDavid, great athlete, no rings and can you truly be great if you don't have a ring? Because from a hockey standpoint this stat kind of blew me away. Now the sport's different. I think it's a lot harder to win. There's more teams. You play best of sevens now for four rounds where back in the day even, even some of the islander runs, the first round was best of three. Three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, there was a best of three.

[Don La Greca]

Out of the gate and then eventually went to a best of seven in the in the late 80s I think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

1987 NBA used to do best of five in the first round up for.

[Don La Greca]

A long time, like 10 years ago. Like, it was fairly recent that they changed it, but this was the stat that kind of blew me away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, this one, yes.

[Don La Greca]

The most points in the first 10 seasons, Peter. So Connor McDavid's got 10, 82 points. All right, in 10 years. Mike Bossi's third with 11, 26. Mario Lemieux is third, is second with 12, 11. And then Wayne Gretzky, 18, 37. All right. In those four seasons, Gretzky's. Gretzky, four cups. Lemieux, two cups. Bossi, four cups. McDavid, Nunn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he's not in the room.

[Don La Greca]

So he's not in the room. According to some people now on the Mind the game pod. LeBron James talked about the ring culture in the NBA.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You sit here and tell me, you know, Allen Iverson and Charles Barkley and Steve Nash wasn't unbelievable. Oh, they can't be talked about or discussed with these guys because this guy won one ring or won two rings or one. Like, it's just, it's just weird to me. It's like saying Peyton Manning can't be in the same room with Bret Brady or Mahomes because he only has one ring. They don't never discuss that in a sport. Or telling me that Dan Marino is not the greatest slinger of all time, or he can't be in a room with those guys because he didn't win a championship. They don't discuss those things. I, I, yes, we do. I, I think there's a lot here, don.

[Don La Greca]

I think LeBron was looking at the performance of Peyton in that second super bowl, right?

[Anthony Pucik]

He was like, shouldn't count, can we?

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's so much to this. Well, first and foremost, let's begin with the fact that this, this statement by LeBron. He is being a hypocrite.

[Anthony Pucik]

Why?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He created the ring culture by chasing them, right? By leaving teams, leaving his team to go to Miami to join forces with one intention, to win a championship. Don't give me the eh, that's exactly what he did.

[Anthony Pucik]

No, no, no. He did that, but he didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did he created or was he reacting to not.

[Don La Greca]

But he didn't create it.

[Anthony Pucik]

It was already he knew what he needed.

[Don La Greca]

This is what I got to do, because this is.

[Anthony Pucik]

I don't want to be Dan. No, I don't want. I can't be that if I'm gonna compete with mj, I gotta get the. I'm just. Is it chicken or Egg is all.

[Don La Greca]

No, that's a good question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a better way to put it. Chicken or egg, Fine. So if you wanna say that, that's fine. But this conversation was started, if you really wanna know the genesis of this whole idea of the ring culture and that you can't talk about or whatever it is you wanna. What he was saying there about Iverson and Nashley is it's a classic story. I know you've all heard it from the Dream Team and their travels together when they had an off day and they were in a rec room somewhere playing pool and Bird and Jordan were talking about something about in the championship or winning a ch. Whatever it is about winning.

[Anthony Pucik]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Barkley was in the conversation, chiming in, and Jordan and Bird told him, no, no, no, you can't be in this conversation. You don't know what it's like. You didn't win a championship. And that story got out and that sort of became a. You can't speak because you don't have a ring. It all started there. Now, it didn't really catch until LeBron arrived because even Shaquille Kobe, there was no have to win a ring. They were great players.

[Don La Greca]

Right? Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It wasn't something that became part of the bigger narrative. It was Patrick Ewing dealt with it throughout his whole career in New York. He's gotta win a championship. But it wasn't to be considered a great player. It was just literally because he was trying to do something that hadn't been done in at that point. It's only 20 years. But when LeBron came around and Chosen One was tattooed on his back, it followed him to a point. When he got to the finals in 07 for the first time and they had no chance against that NBA, against that spurs dynasty team. That was the first indication of LeBron is the next star. Can he get a championship while in Cleveland, can they build a team around him? 09. They win 66 games. They lose in the conference finals. And that's when it's got louder and louder about LeBron. But this all started from the legends who won, who shushed a guy who didn't.

[Don La Greca]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's where it came from. It's not the media that created this. It was the legends that created it.

[Don La Greca]

Obviously, there's always. Winning is important for sure. But should it be the end all be all? PK Suban was on get up and agrees with Alec.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think there's any point in playing sports if it's not about winning a championship.

[Don La Greca]

You play to win.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I dreamt about winning a Stanley cup, even though I didn't get one. My dream was to win a Cup. We know it doesn't always happen, but to consider yourself the greatest, to me, you got to win a champion. And it doesn't matter what sport you're in. Some sports, it's more difficult than others. But we can't sit here and say.

[Don La Greca]

That I want to be the greatest.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even though I didn't win. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. As hockey players, in our sport, it's all about winning. Nothing's more important. Listen, last night, I sat there and had to watch guys win the Cup. I can't stand watching guys hoist that thing because all of us want to do it, but not everybody can. So you got to respect the game. The game. No one is bigger than the game in hockey.

[Don La Greca]

No one is bigger than that trophy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Nothing matters more than that trophy. That's in our sport.

[Don La Greca]

I can't speak to everything else.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I loved everything he said. I was nodding along with him.

[Don La Greca]

Now, first of all, I love Connor McDavid, and I think he's going to be in the conversation as one of the greatest players ever to play the game. He's not Gretzky. Gretzky's got more assists than anybody else has points. All right, so Gretzky's Gretzky. All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Now, if you're going to tell me that I'm going to put a top five, I can't put Connor McDavid there because Crosby's got rings, Gordie Howe's got a ring. Bobby or has got rings. So I can't put him in that conversation. But I'm not going to put you on the spot, Peter. I'm not. That's not my intent. Quickly, how many rings Does Wayne Gretzky?

[Anthony Pucik]

5.

[Don La Greca]

4. All right.

[Anthony Pucik]

Trick myself.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, he left before.

[Don La Greca]

That's not why. But that's not why he's the greatest. He's the greatest because he's got more points than anybody could ever imagine. Right. He's got. But no, wait a minute.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Part of the story.

[Don La Greca]

He won four cups with Curry and Messier and Coffee and Grant Fuhrer.

[Anthony Pucik]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

All right. So is Messier better?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, wait.

[Don La Greca]

Is Messier. Because Messier won after Gretzky left in Edmonton and then went to the Rangers. Gretzky didn't win in LA. He didn't win in St. Louis. He didn't win with the Rangers. If you're going to tell me Mark Messier is better, then you don't know anything about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that is not about how many rings. And first of all, you saying that he did that with all these great players, then you're diminishing his career stat totals then. Because he played with all these great players, though. So that goes back to the chicken and egg thing that Peter said. Yari Curry is a great goal scorer. Because Yari Curry is a great goal scorer or because Wayne Gretzky is a great passer.

[Don La Greca]

No, I get that. But he's still.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a real thing.

[Don La Greca]

But see, you win as a team. See, all of a sudden. But all of a sudden we kind of change the rules when we ring count and make it an individual sport when it's still a team sport. Now if you tell me, hey, Connor McDavid wets the bed every time he plays in the playoffs. Well, going into last night, he had 23 points in 14 elimination games. All right, so he has played exceptionally well in the postseason.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

Team's not good enough. They didn't have a good goaltender. That's their problem. If Bobrovsky played for Edmonton, I think they win the cup and he plays exactly the same. You can't tell me that that Edmonton team he plays for is anywhere close to the Edmonton team that Gretzky played for or even the. When Crosby won the cup at 09, I think that Penguin team was better than this Edmonton Oiler team. So he gets no credit for taking a team that after they went to the final in 06 was nowhere. Nobody wanted a play in Edmonton. Edmonton was an afterthought. All of a sudden he goes there, they're a perennial playoff team and become the first Canadian franchise to go to back to back Stanley cup finals for the first time since Edmonton did it back in the late 80s. So he doesn't get any credit for that. That doesn't add to his greatness. He's got to get a ring. Like Jim Kelly can't be considered great. He went to four straight super bowl, but that doesn't matter. He didn't win any of them. The. So he can't be in the conversation. He can't be in the room with Mahomes and Brady and the Mannings. Like, I just think it kind of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Gets silly, but there's. There's a.

[Anthony Pucik]

You're not wrong.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's a separation to it. That's the only thing that's being created here. This is not about. He's not good enough because of the lack of team success.

[Don La Greca]

It.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The. It's the. All the great Individual accolades. Then add the team success. He doesn't need six.

[Don La Greca]

One.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I told you, it's just one. So it's not that Messier has six and Gretzky has four. So Messier, that means he's. But no, it's the fact that he got one. And what we want a lot of times as fans is when you have a guy who's one of the greats to ever do it and we all recognize it, we all acknowledge the fact that he is. There's this feeling of you want to see that player at the pinnacle of the sport. That's what you want to see. I feel like he's being wasted if he's on team that can't do it.

[Don La Greca]

Listen, Mike Judge now Judge is on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A team that can. The problem is his numbers in October.

[Don La Greca]

Well, that's the difference. Live up to him again. If you were to tell me then in the two Stanley cup finals, he has done nothing. Connor McDavid, that's a different story. Like Judge, Judge has had opportunities. He hasn't taken advantage of them. That's a different story.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

But like you're telling me, he needs the chip. So let's say late in his career doesn't get it in Edmonton, decides to at the. At 36, sign on like the way Roy Bourque did on a super team of the Avalanche and then finally gets the ring that now he can be there. Like it does seem. But that. Does that seem odd to you? That in his prime he was. Wasn't able to do it, but then he just kind of climbs on board super team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did Ray. Was he a passenger on that Avalanche?

[Don La Greca]

No, he wasn't a passenger.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course he was.

[Don La Greca]

But his greatness, his pure greatness, his hall of Fame was with the Bruins, was built with the Boston Bruins. He was like 37 when he went to Colorado.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See at some point in his career that he could also be part of the team at the very top. And he showed you he could. He Even still in 2001, he was able to contribute to. But a ultimate goal.

[Don La Greca]

I understand and that is important. Barkov didn't have a point in the finals, right? Or didn't have a goal in the finals. So let's say how many points did.

[Anthony Pucik]

How many points did McDavid have, by the way? Because he only had one goal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, he had one goal, but I think 18 shots.

[Don La Greca]

He had eight. I think he had eight or nine points in the final and he had like over 20.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He didn't have a great fight.

[Don La Greca]

He was amazing. Didn't have a great final.

[Anthony Pucik]

One goal in six games in the final. But you're the best player in the world this year. That's not good.

[Don La Greca]

But you're a.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Last year way better.

[Don La Greca]

But you're a center and you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He is a pass.

[Don La Greca]

That overtime pass to Dry Saddles in game. In game one was. Was amazing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But Don, I don't want you.

[Don La Greca]

But I'm saying. Let's say you took Bark off and put McDavid where bark off is number one center on the Florida Panthers. Do you think he would have hurt. Hurt the Panthers chances of winning this year or hindered. It would have helped, yes. So the team matters, guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course it does.

[Don La Greca]

So you're sitting here and you're. But just think about like hypocritical. It just sounds when you sound it out, you spell it out that you're judging the individual's greatness on the rings. But it also means you gotta be on the right team in the right circumstances to be able to take advantage.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's where the pressure goes on the team and that's why Edmonton just. See, I don't think McDavid's being criticized. This is not about criticism. This is almost about frustration. A guy that good you got. He's got to have his name on the Cup. He's one of the best players to ever play. That's when now the pressure goes on the Edmonton Oilers. What are you guys doing? How about you got to beef up your defense. Have you noticed heavy teams win the cup, not your team. Now you're a bunch of skilled guys that don't like getting hit. Like, come on. Like, you've got to change your roster or he needs to leave.

[Don La Greca]

That's going to be part of the conversation. That's always going to be on the conversation. But it's also very difficult. It's a cap sport. It's Edmonton. Not, not. It's attractive to play with McDavid, but it's not exactly the easiest place to sell people on, you know, relocating to Edmonton.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You also got to do a better job building your defense out because, you know, like in the NFL, you got.

[Don La Greca]

To do a better job with your goaltender. You have a great quarterback, get a better goaltender.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think it's just a goaltender. I think their defense is soft. I don't think that's a. That's a good defensive core. It. It adds to the fact that their goaltending isn't.

[Don La Greca]

Nobody's criticizing McDavid, but at the end of the day, whether it's P.K. suban. Whether it's you or whatever. Some. At some point we are going to have a conversation of the greatest hockey players who ever lived or the greatest players that ever lived.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And then the rings come into the conversation as a tiebreaker or a way to diminish somebody that hasn't won one. And I just want to allow for the nuance of saying, well, you know, maybe this guy didn't win because he just didn't happen to be at the right place at the right time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dom, would you put any of these other people outside of 97 to take, take him off the table because he's still playing, so he still has a chance. Is anybody else that played in the NHL, in the history of the sport.

[Don La Greca]

The history of the sport that hasn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Won a ring that you could put in the same category as the names that you just read off that page or even close that hasn't won one? You can't.

[Don La Greca]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Those guys. That's. But that's the thing. That's the line of demarcation.

[Don La Greca]

I know you are talent wise and.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All time great, but you're one of the only ones to not have your name on the cup.

[Don La Greca]

But Gordie Howes got a ring and he played. He did it in the original six era, you had to win two rounds. But I'm saying. But there's the nuance here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, Ted Williams, all you had to do was win one round. Then he couldn't do it.

[Don La Greca]

But by the way, does it really.

[Anthony Pucik]

Hurt Ted Williams legacy?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Anthony Pucik]

And if we're being honest, has it really hurt Marino's legacy? Is he really.

[Don La Greca]

How much?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Nobody takes it away.

[Anthony Pucik]

It gets brought up.

[Don La Greca]

It gets brought up a lot. But look how well he had to play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

In order for it not to be as big a thing. He's in the conversation as the greatest quarterback that ever played, talent wise. And that's what he had to do to overcome not having any rings. If he was just a shade lower than that, I think they'd have.

[Anthony Pucik]

But here's the. Here's the thing. Here's the issue with your argument. The purpose of the sport every year is to win a title.

[Don La Greca]

Yes. That.

[Anthony Pucik]

If you ask the players MVPs, everything else they don't care about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's Josh going for right now? He's not trying to win mvp.

[Anthony Pucik]

So the tone has already been set of the players only care about championships. So it's. There's no way to get around that. Players who win championships will be unfairly Weighted. It's the goal every year.

[Don La Greca]

But it gets you. It gets thrown into, you know, tennis and golf, where it's. Or nascar, where it's just you. The team matters, you know, because you could go out there and play out of your mind and not be enough. When. When. When Crosby scored that he had 15 goals. When they won in 2009, they still had to beat Detroit in seven games. Like, it could have went the other way and not be enough. Like, he ended up winning after that, you know? But the point is, is, like, who. What team? The circumstances, who you happen to play matters. Because if Florida got picked off by Toronto, they were down two nothing in that series, down three one in the second period of game three. If Toronto had beaten them and they played Toronto instead of Florida, then maybe everything stays the same and Edmonton wins. Like, Beyond Connor David McDavid's control. Beyond any player's control.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

I'm not going to go as far as Jeff passing to say that it's a crapshoot. But there are things that are beyond the individual's control. If Sampras doesn't win the US Open, it's on him. He wasn't good enough to beat his opponent. There was nobody else that was involved but him, Agassi or Tiger woods in golf.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rory At.

[Don La Greca]

You know, it's on you, the Masters, but it is still a team sport. The team matters. The coach matters. And sometimes you do everything you can. I agree with you, Peter. It's all about the ring. All those guys didn't skate on a pond in, you know, in Saskatchewan, dreaming of winning the mvp, Dreaming of winning the Selkie, Dreaming of going to the All Star Game. They dreamed and held up a garbage can like they held up the Stanley Cup. But what did McDavid play 25 minutes yesterday? I mean, there's still 35 other minutes where your goaltender doesn't make a save or, you know, Vander Kane turns the puck over and you lose a game and you're sitting on the bench when it happens, and you couldn't do anything about it. But now my legacy is being tarnished because I don't have a ring.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm gonna ask you again. Name me another player at his level of talent that doesn't have his name on the Cup. That's the only reason why it is brought up. Nobody is saying this about Chris Kreider.

[Don La Greca]

Nobody's saying about Chris Crider, who is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In his own rights, are really good players.

[Don La Greca]

We're at the bottom of the app. But you're going to tell me that Henrik Lundqvist just wasn't good enough or just he didn't. He happened to be on a team that wasn't good enough. Henrik Lundquist is going to go down as one of the great goaltenders. He's in the hall of Fame. Right. I mean there's a lot of names.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But there's another one. I asked, remember PK and the Canadians lost to Henrik on that run to the finals. Carey Price got knocked out. You remember, right? Got knocked out.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Extra by Crider.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And like you have to look at Henrik Lundqvist in the same light and say name me another goalie. Just let's go this generation, 1980 forward. Don't even go to the back, you know, to the original six days and all that stuff. Let's just go, you know, modern era 80 forward. Name me the goalie that was like one of the best in the league or of his generation who didn't win a cup. Usually they do.

[Don La Greca]

They usually do. But sometimes there's circumstances like go through all the names.

[Anthony Pucik]

They usually do.

[Don La Greca]

But I also look at.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But with, you know who did. Luongo.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. Roberto Longo went to a Game 7 in Vancouver.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's the.

[Don La Greca]

I think Hank was better than Luongo. But. But the point is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he was one of the best of the generation.

[Don La Greca]

But you don't get any credit for taking a franchise that had no business winning president's trophies, had no business going to the Stanley cup final if it weren't for Hank.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

But because he didn't win the ring. Oh well, you didn't want a ring. But you know what does he get any credit for taking a franchise? Of course he was nowhere before. Credit is lifting it into the national.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Credit in the rafters.

[Don La Greca]

Right, Exactly. So but you know the Edmonton Oilers, like what player wants to play in Edmonton? Most people couldn't pick it out on a map and then they go to back to back Stanley cup finals.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got to build it to the draft the first time around, which they aren't doing well or you got to leave.

[Don La Greca]

But a lot of these guys, I mean listen, like Bobby Ory had a bad knee one two cups. You know, one of them was against the St. Louis Blues, an expansion team because, because of the Fakocto we're going to put all the expansion teams in one conference. There's only a handful of team. There's a, there's, there's some of those guys won a cup in a 21 team league where 16 of them made the playoffs. And now guess what? Connor McDavid plays in a league where only half the teams make the playoffs and you got to win four rounds. Seven. Four games in best of sevens four times. Hot. Toughest to win. I. PK's right. It's all about winning the ring. But there are. There's nuance to it. So. So, so Kopitar. Kopitar is a really good player. He's got two rings. He was on the Los Angeles Kings. He's a really great player, but it doesn't. He couldn't sniff Connor McDavid.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's my point.

[Don La Greca]

But he's got two rings. Jingling so sorry you're missing. That doesn't make him better to the point you made about the Dream Team. So. So Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown are hanging out, having a conversation about championships, and then Connor McDavid walks in, was like, sorry, Conor, we're talking about rings. Get to step it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You'll be.

[Don La Greca]

No, that's.

[Anthony Pucik]

That's. No one thinks that though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He.

[Don La Greca]

That's what he was saying about the Dream Team. Sorry, Charles. We're having a conversation about championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Barkley's one of the all time greats. He's an all time great and he's recognized as such, not as a Kopitar. By the way, when has he made these references get to step in and then he did the fakacta. He's. You're rubbing off on it, I think.

[Anthony Pucik]

No, get to step. Get to step in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a Martin Lawrence line.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Anthony Pucik]

I don't know where he found. Get to step in step.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like getting to step.

[Don La Greca]

I don't know where I find any, but the fakag.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Has he ever said I've dropped.

[Anthony Pucik]

He's dropped a faka.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That caught me by surprise.

[Don La Greca]

I just try to change it up. You don't like. You don't want to get stuck. But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but you do you understand what I mean?

[Don La Greca]

I understand Barkley at A level already. All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not on Kopitar, he's not. Dustin Brown's not at that level.

[Don La Greca]

I'd say Kopitar is going to go to the hall of Fame.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, but I'm talking about as an all time. You got to be in a different level as a player in your generation. That's my point. Doing things like again, Aaron Cheney.

[Don La Greca]

What else is better than hall of Fame?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on, Don. There. You know there's even levels in the hall of Fame. You know that there should be different rooms. They just won't do it because they don't want to fend, but, you know.

[Don La Greca]

I understand, but I just think there's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There'S platinum, then there's titanium, right? There's. There's different levels to that room as well.

[Anthony Pucik]

Titanium, huh?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is there anything higher than titanium?

[Don La Greca]

All right, we got a list coming up. A ton of people want to climb aboard. We are going to take your calls on this because a lot of people are hot about it. 1-800-919-3776. It's Don, it's Han, it's Rosenberg. It's all happening here on ESPN New York.

[Anthony Pucik]

Now I have an ad brought to you guys by BetterHelp. All right? It's okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and for everyone in your life. June is men's Mental Health Awareness Month, and men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, and to keep it all together. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year. And it's often undiagnosed. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. So talk it out with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] timeout. That's betterhelp.com timeout. This is an ad by BetterHelp. It's okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and everyone in your life. June is Mental Health Awareness month, and men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, to keep it all together. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year.

[Don La Greca]

And.

[Anthony Pucik]

And it's often undiagnosed. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. As the largest online provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] timeout. That's betterhelp.com timeout.

[Don La Greca]

Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly, and Madewell. It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns in store. Order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom app. Savor every last drop of summer with Starbucks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

From bold refreshers to rich cold brews.

[Anthony Pucik]

The sunniest season only gets better with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A handcrafted ice beverage in your hand.

[Don La Greca]

Available for a limited time.

[Anthony Pucik]

Your summer favorites are ready at Starbucks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Anthony Pucik]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

You just made the list, buddy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is the list with Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Don La Greca]

Now time for the list, which is brought to you by bet365. All right, so we were talking about rings and listen, some of the guys like McDavid and Judge, they still have a long time to try to get that chip, but I decided to keep it local and go with the top five New York athletes, former New York athletes, retired that never got the ring. So obviously the longevity with a New York team not winning a championship and also their greatness is considered in the top.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It can't be somebody that, like here at the end of his career, cup of coffee kind of player. It's gotta be somebody that, like, put in some time, blood in the ground.

[Don La Greca]

He didn't spend his entire time with the jets, but he is a Hall of Famer and had an amazing career. I got Curtis Martin as number five.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's. That's actually at five. That tells you that there's four others that are pretty significant because you think about it, Curtis Martin went to the jets and missed out on what you think about it, A dynasty in New England. I mean, that's where he was.

[Don La Greca]

And number four, also with the jets, hall of Famer as well, Joe Klekka, Pro Bowler at three different positions on the defensive line now in the hall of Fame.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Playing a championship game, but not a super. Didn't win a champion.

[Anthony Pucik]

Keep going.

[Don La Greca]

This is gonna be interesting to see where we go now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm curious because I wasn't thinking of that one.

[Don La Greca]

All right. Wasn't thinking of that one. Number three, how about Henrik Lundquist? We're just talking about him. Yeah, hall of Fame career brought the Rangers to prominence, but just couldn't get him over the hump. The closest he came was in 2014 losing the final.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Beloved Ranger. Beloved Ranger.

[Anthony Pucik]

Very beloved.

[Don La Greca]

Speaking of beloved Ranger, how about Mr. Ranger? Roger Ball of Fame, Most goals scored by any New York Ranger. Number seven in the rafters. Played in the final in 72.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Part of the Rat Pack back in the 70s, too.

[Don La Greca]

He ran with Namath, Will, and probably did better than all of them because as, as Rod told you, he stayed in New York in the offseason.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is interesting, Gilbert, though, like you think about again. I want so bad for there to be like a docu series on Playboy.

[Anthony Pucik]

Yeah, of course. Him, Namath, Clyde.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Clyde. Wilt Chamberlain would spend a lot of time in New York City and hang as well. Namath had the. Had the club, right? Bachelors. Yeah, Bachelor's three and. And just the stories you hear about that stuff.

[Anthony Pucik]

So this means that number one has to be Patrick Ewing.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, that's right, Peter. Way to do it.

[Anthony Pucik]

Which is interesting because it means that some people were left out.

[Don La Greca]

Just remember, you know, the busher wasn't jumping up and down when they won the lottery. When the, when the frozen envelope, which.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, 40 years ago today.

[Don La Greca]

Wow. I didn't even know that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's perfect. I sent Patrick a text this morning saying, happy anniversary. Go ahead, go ahead.

[Anthony Pucik]

That's a bigger one. Hold on. I sent Patrick. Hold on, let me do it again. This is better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He did reply, in case you were wondering.

[Don La Greca]

What did you say I could flex.

[Anthony Pucik]

What did you say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can't flex that one.

[Anthony Pucik]

No, you can.

[Don La Greca]

You should.

[Anthony Pucik]

What did you say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I. I just, I sent him a clip that just said June 18, 1985, 40 years ago, Patrick Ewing, the first player selected in the NBA draft by the New York Knicks. And then I just said, happy anniversary. He responded, good morning, my friend, and thank you.

[Don La Greca]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don La Greca]

So the pusher was not jumping up and down on the deus because he's like, we got one of the top 50 players of all time. They're thinking rings and didn't get it. So Patrick Ewing would be. Yeah, number one. So Curtis Martin, five. Cleo four. Lundqist, three. Gilbert two.

[Anthony Pucik]

And how are you?

[Don La Greca]

One.

[Anthony Pucik]

And how are you titling this list?

[Don La Greca]

I'm telling the. The. The greatest New York athletes not to win a ring.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mike Piazza doesn't count.

[Don La Greca]

Mike Piazza is on my honorable mention. Because, because, well, he didn't spend as much time. I think in the end he was really good. They played in the World Series. It was tough.

[Anthony Pucik]

No, Donnie, baseball.

[Don La Greca]

Well, Donnie, baseball's not in the Hall. Should be. But he's not. But he should be. Who you taking out now?

[Anthony Pucik]

Who's this Gilbert guy's fine. I, I, I, I think.

[Don La Greca]

Who's this Gilbert guy Take.

[Anthony Pucik]

I take Mattingly over Kumar.

[Don La Greca]

Really? I would, he went Kumar. That's right. Never heard that.

[Anthony Pucik]

I made it up. But I would take Mattingly over Curtis Martin.

[Don La Greca]

Interesting. That's why we debate these things. Tiki Barber.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tiki Barber is an interesting one as well. But I'd put Curtis Martin ahead on that one.

[Don La Greca]

I would too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Donnie. Donnie, Baseball's got to be on this list. To me, he's, Because David Wright doesn't count.

[Don La Greca]

David Wright kind of falls into the Dom Matting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't feel like David Wright's at that level.

[Anthony Pucik]

Rise to the level.

[Don La Greca]

Number retired, but not in the Hall. Probably not going to get in the hall of Fame. So I just, you know why? Tittle. I had him as a Hall of Famer, couple of championship games, didn't win, but didn't spend his whole career with the, with the Giants either. Spent a lot of time in San Francisco, but didn't win here in New York. So listen, it's certainly debatable, but I, I know you want to get Mattingly. Who do you take out? Kleko Klo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know is because he was tough. He's so revered by anybody that played in his generation. What do you play? All positions. Did he play every position on the D line?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or three of the four?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the who you take it. I just feel like Dom Mattingly just feels he and Patrick Ewing are like the two that spent a decade plus with the team. Right. Like, Mattingly was, was.

[Don La Greca]

Well, Mattingly was there from what was. Patrick was 81 to 95.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, like, give me two other guys that have spent more time with the franchise than them consecutively and didn't win a championship and yet played at the highest level of the sport. I think, Donnie, Baseball's got to be on this list. Peter.

[Anthony Pucik]

Well, it was the first one that came to mind.

[Don La Greca]

It'd be the second time you would take out Curtis Martin.

[Anthony Pucik]

Yeah. When I knew there was one left, I knew it would be Ewing. But I feel so strongly about Don Mattingly that I thought, he's not going to go Mattingly over Ewing, is he?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Curtis Martin wasn't A draft pick.

[Don La Greca]

No, you could throw that in there, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He wasn't a homegrown.

[Don La Greca]

That was a pretty significant time. He was there. Championship. He was a great.

[Anthony Pucik]

He was a really, really great player.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Great check.

[Anthony Pucik]

He didn't have. I'm factoring in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got to take somebody out.

[Anthony Pucik]

Well, also I'm factoring who are you taking out, but I'm factoring in more than just how good were they at their sport. I'm factoring in what did they mean to New York? Mattingly meant so much more than Curtis Martin meant. He was in an area bigger than the Jets.

[Don La Greca]

But you talk about.

[Anthony Pucik]

He was the. He was.

[Don La Greca]

You talk about Curtis Martin. Among Jet fans?

[Anthony Pucik]

No.

[Don La Greca]

Among jets, nobody.

[Anthony Pucik]

But as someone who lived outside of the market for both of those eras, listen, Mattingly was the man everywhere that was.

[Don La Greca]

You know, you want to take Curtis Martin out and put Don Mattingly there, the only non. Hall of Famer on the list.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you have what's.

[Anthony Pucik]

Wait and Sorry. And then there's Joubert, there's Hank, there's Ewing, and there's Pleco.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Two jets and two Rangers.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, you also got to go with teams that haven't won.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, right.

[Don La Greca]

The Ravens have won one championship in 85.

[Anthony Pucik]

You're not gonna have Giants.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you could, but I just don't.

[Don La Greca]

Know if Tiki's in the top five here.

[Anthony Pucik]

I don't. I think he's probably just outside. I don't know Kleko well enough, you know, except for.

[Don La Greca]

Well, Kleco's in the hall of Fame, like I said, Pro bowl, three different positions on the defensive line.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Kleko, I think you could definitely make that case because beloved, insanely talented, best of his generation and didn't win. You know, that's. That's all there. Got close. Didn't get there.

[Don La Greca]

I mean, I'm willing to do it. I mean, if I'm outvoted, what do the people say? Well, we could ask Jacob. Jacob Anthony.

[Anthony Pucik]

Anthony, what do you guys think?

[Don La Greca]

Donnie's a big Yankee fan.

[Anthony Pucik]

Curtis Martin.

[Don La Greca]

Would you take Curtis Martin out and put Don Mattingly in?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you can make that argument.

[Don La Greca]

All right, well, that's what we're doing. We just asked you a question.

[Anthony Pucik]

So would you make the argument?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's kind of the game.

[Anthony Pucik]

So what is that foreign?

[Don La Greca]

It's a good radio way to ad lib, Anthony.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Pucik]

He's just staring.

[Don La Greca]

That summer stock is really coming out. Well.

[Anthony Pucik]

All right.

[Don La Greca]

While he's thinking Jacob, while he works on his blue Still, I, I, I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do think that I'm a Jets fan.

[Don La Greca]

Curtis Mar means a lot, but Don Mattingly means more to New York. Yeah, you know what? I'm willing to do that. All right, so we'll put Don Mattingly in instead of Curtis.

[Anthony Pucik]

So even with Anthony, with, even with his vote.

[Don La Greca]

So it's Mattingly, Don Mattingly, 5. Kleco for Lundquist, 3. She'll bear 2. Ewing, 1. And listen, the social media people will argue even if we all agreed. So have at it. I don't know. The poll will be social media.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The poll is always up.

[Don La Greca]

All right, let's hear from you. 1-800-919-3776. Let's go to Chris. He's in the UPS truck. You're on. Don Honor, Rosenberg. What's up?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey, how you guys doing today?

[Don La Greca]

Terrific. Good, good.

[D]

I think the talk with the, with the rings is just with LeBron, like, trying to discredit. It can't be in the same room as, like, a Tom Brady. It's just, that's the whole point of all these sports having playoffs and championships. Like, Phil Jackson is the best coach ever because he has 11 reigns. He coached 11. It's the same with the players. I don't, you know, Melo, Melo is somebody that never won. He's great, but he's not a winner. It's like, it's like Soto and Judge. Soto is a winner. Like, Judge is better.

[Don La Greca]

You know what's so interesting about that, Chris? And thank you for the call. You're not wrong. But Soto won his championship when he was 19 years old with the Nationals, and all of a sudden he's a winner.

[Anthony Pucik]

Right. What if he never wins again, you.

[Don La Greca]

Know, and never wins again? And then. Listen, I'm not gonna take anything away from Phil Jackson. Heck of a coach, terrible executive, but a heck of a coach. But, you know, champ three. Champ, what, six championships with, you know, Jordan Pippen and then what, five championships with Shaq and Kobe. That helps. Now, he never even take the, you know, the Nuggets to a championship. Right. It wasn't, he wasn't taking the Sacramento Kings to championships with, you know, the Detroit point guard.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don La Greca]

You know, I mean, you know, or Drazim Petrovic era, they don't sleep on. I'm saying circumstances matter, you know, so you throw the rings on the table, and that ends the argument. That usually does. But can we have a nuanced conversation to say, hey, I think, I think there were other coaches that might have been Better that didn't win as many rings because they didn't have the personnel that Phil Jackson had. Right. I think that's part of it too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I though add to it before we take the next call is just simply say this. I like the idea that in professional sports there is a accountability to team success and it should be the most important thing of your career. Team success still matters. And that's why the rings culture is not such a bad thing because it removes the idea of the individual who's just great. And even if his team stinks, that's not his problem. It is. Team success still matters in team sports. And I love that.

[Don La Greca]

Right. But you know, you look at Stanton's absolved from a lot of the postseason losses the Yankees have had because he's raked in the postseason. But it just shows you that that's why baseball's hard to be a part of the conversation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Clutch Gene is also part of a great.

[Don La Greca]

Right. And I know it's. And that's why I can't kill you on putting Judge on any list because he has not been clutch in the postseason.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mr. May.

[Don La Greca]

So but if he, if he was batting.330 in the postseason and they haven't won, are you going to sit there and go, well, he's not a winner?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. Then you, then you would call Robbie.

[Don La Greca]

Hori's a winner because he had a bun of threes coming off the bench for a bunch of teams and one rings.

[Anthony Pucik]

But here's, here's why Robert Ori made.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Some high pressure shots.

[Don La Greca]

By the way, that was the list brought to you by Bette365. Whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at bet.365.

[Anthony Pucik]

But for the record, you know, no one is great as Robert or his clutch play was in the NBA playoffs. It's not like anyone's like, I'll take Robert or over Charles Barkley like that doesn't happen.

[Don La Greca]

You could win 10 of them.

[Anthony Pucik]

You could win 10 of them. You're still not going in over Judge.

[Don La Greca]

Even the rings that were won back in the day. Listen, if the Yankees play, if Aaron Judge and the Yankees were playing in the 50s, they'd have a bunch of rings because they would win the American League and have one round to be able to win the ring. One round, not three. They won best of seven series to determine championships and then he'd have probably five rings and we'd be talking about how great a winner is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait a second. You can't say that either because how do you know they'd win the the American League or the east or whatever it is that they'd have to win. Not the there's no wild cards. If you're going to put him in that world, you can't finish second place. That's the whole reason why Don Mattingly never really had a chance to win a ring, because you had to finish in first place.

[Don La Greca]

And he did perform well in 95 when they went to the playoffs and just they couldn't hold on to the lead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. So that's a real thing. You can't just assume. Well, if you put Judge, if Judge played back then he would. You don't know that because the Yankees still have to finish in first place for him to play in the World Series. My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits.

[Don La Greca]

I'm ready.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Celsius Live Fit. Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail] after.

[Don La Greca]

Zoomies at the dog park, it's time for Drive up at Target. In goes a big bag of kibble and one squeaky chicken toy for the good boy. Drive up that's ready when you are. Only in the Target app. Just tap Target this episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Anthony Pucik]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

Back to the busy phones at 1-800-919-3776. Joseph Jose is in Connecticut. You're on. Don Hunter Rosenberg.

[D]

What's up guys? My point, like that last caller, man, you know, you guys were too nice to him. You can't call somebody like Aaron Judge Carmelo, not a winner. Like especially like look at Melo. He's won in multiple levels. He didn't want a championship. But you don't have those accolades in winning at different levels in Olympics and college and say he won a national.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Championship in College as a 19 year.

[Anthony Pucik]

Old guy's a winner. He, he took Carmelo, took one of the most beloved college sports franchises on earth with one of the greatest coaches we've ever seen, who's now able to be considered one of the greatest coaches we've ever seen. Because Carmelo, at 19 years old, delivered him a championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Anthony Pucik]

And by the way, that wasn't Hakeem Warwick's championship, that was Carmelo Anthony's championship.

[Don La Greca]

Thank you.

[Anthony Pucik]

But Warwick was a really good second piece. But that was, that was Carmelo's team. A great Olympian. It's so true. People are so lazy with the. You didn't win one, you got. He's a winner. He's always been a winner.

[D]

Yeah. And my point about LeBron, he just frustrates me because, and I'm originally from Cleveland, so I was a LeBron guy. But what I don't like about him, he tries to change the narrative because you're right as far as ring culture was always there, but it was important to win the ring. But it didn't get, it got worse because of him. He not only just leaving and constantly moving teams and switching players around to constantly keep chasing titles, but then that, that not one, not four, not five comment probably still haunts them. So like, and also then other people follow his suit, like KD or other, other players followed him to go like, make it another level of ring chasing. And like, so now he's trying to roll it back because you know me, so I don't like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's called like Jose. You know what it's called? It's called lack of accountability. He doesn't want to be blamed for it.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he's trying to make it out like where it's the media's fault. And they made me ring chase. It really started, that whole era really started when KG was traded to the Celtics and they created that team and they instantly won. Right. Because you think about it, they traded for Ray Allen, Paul Pierce already there, but they blew up a roster that wasn't very good. And they got Ray Allen and they got Kevin Garnett and in the very first year, they won it all. And then I think it was two years later they went back to the final but lost. But they were like, they did it immediately. And that set off. Well, this is what you got to do. You got to build super teams. And that's when LeBron had to do what he did with Miami and everybody else tried to do it. No one else was able to do it. Nearly as well.

[Don La Greca]

I do believe what Peter said is the chicken or the egg. Where did LeBron started? Or did LeBron say, if I'm going to be better than Jordan, I'm going to have to win more than Jordan? That's going to have to get a bunch of. And is it fair now? Basketball is different. Basketball, you have way more control than you do in baseball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, that is true.

[Don La Greca]

So. And even in hockey, in any other sport, you know, Connor McDavid can only do what he can do on the time that he's on the ice. More than half the game is played when he's sitting on the bench. LeBron go out there and play 44 minutes of a 48 minute game and take every big shot at the end of the game. You know, there's not that opportunity. We saw that in game seven last year with Edmonton when Dry Saddle and McDab were on the ice for like the entire third period. Sucking wind. It doesn't work that way. Matt Merrick, you're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg.

[D]

Hey, what's going on guys? Can you hear me? Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey Matt, we got you.

[D]

What's up? What's up? So I got, I got three honorable mentions for you guys.

[Don La Greca]

Okay.

[D]

I think one of them might be able to kind of scrape the top four or five. So Dave Winfield, because he played for the Yankees for nine years and didn't win a World Series, ended up winning one with Toronto in 92. But I'm feeling like that doesn't count for this argument.

[Don La Greca]

Right? Exactly.

[D]

Number two, John Franco, three time NL save leader with the Mets for a 10 for a decade span.

[Don La Greca]

That's good.

[D]

Probably don't even really remember him, you know, when he gets. But people don't even really think of him as like an all time great met because he didn't win a World Series. And then the last one I would say is Pat La Fontaine because he was on the Islanders and the Rangers. Didn't. Went to the Cup, I think once or twice too. Yeah, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Did it.

[D]

Didn't win. And New York technically with Buffalo. And then here's my, here's my real like real deep honorable mention. And that's the problem with these arguments because I take them like literally when someone says professional sports, New York. I'm going to go with Aaron Garcia, quarterback for the New York Dragons. Goes down as maybe one of the best arena football players ever. Wow. I remember seven years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Aaron Garcia was really good.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[D]

They didn't. Didn't get it. Got a championship on another team. I think it was with Orlando. But, you know, you kind of. You kind of think of it like, if he gets a championship with the Dragons, who knows? Maybe that league is still around because it's a big.

[Don La Greca]

You know what I love about you, Matt? You're so Long Island. You're bringing up the arena team that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Played at the Coliseum, LaFontaine.

[Don La Greca]

And you bring up La Fontaine, who did go to a final as rookie year. That was the year that lost to Edmonton, was on that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

So he came close and never really got. Tell you what, close to 10.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Think about that. And that's what is amazing. And by Bill Torres, one of the greats ever. That Islander dynasty team was getting old by then. 84. Right. They get. But they had Palafontaine and Patrick Flatley as draft picks that were ready to almost take the torch and go from there. Like, think about that for a minute.

[Don La Greca]

No, they were ready, Kelly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rudy was a young goal.

[Don La Greca]

He came back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Think about what they almost were able to build as a bridge going forward. That almost happened, but it just, you know, there wasn't enough pieces. But imagine having a guy, a Hall of Famer as a kid on a team loaded with hall of Famers.

[Don La Greca]

I remember, but I remember the New York Dragons. I remember going to the Coliseum, doing a show, and I was hanging out with Mike Milbury. I did. I did like a show with him. And then, like, after they were putting things together, I got to see them put the field.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

It was like. It was just kind of cool to see it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

I never been to an Arena League game, but that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did you watch the game? Did you stay for the game?

[Don La Greca]

I didn't stay for the game, no. But I just thought it was kind of cool. But now here's a trivia question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Don La Greca]

For a very brief period of time, the Garden had an arena football team. Do you remember the name of the team?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Anthony Pucik]

This is. This is tough.

[Don La Greca]

This is. Throw it out there. See if anybody remembers. Obviously, Anthony and Jacob.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was like one of the first arena.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. And they went first. They weren't there long.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don La Greca]

But I don't even know if they. I think it was just one year, but they were on msg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Damn.

[Don La Greca]

And I remember.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Got me. I know.

[Don La Greca]

It's kind of a lame name, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I completely know.

[Don La Greca]

You want to give it the New York City Hawks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

City Hawks.

[Anthony Pucik]

City Hawks, huh?

[Don La Greca]

Oh, how long they lasted. I'm sure somebody.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Kofi, will you think two seasons at best, which over under two and a half seasons.

[Don La Greca]

What would you say No, I think it was just one season. If you're saying the over unders two and a half, I'm going on city hall. Okay, let's go to Javier in Port St. Lucie. You're on.

[Anthony Pucik]

All right.

[D]

Oh, well, I wanted to give you guys a fun fact real quick. Don, I'm a die hard Yankees fan and I live about 10 minutes away from the stadium. I refuse to go to a Mets game, and my cousin's a conditioning coach for the St. Lucie Mets.

[Don La Greca]

Depriving yourself, man, like it's at the gun.

[Anthony Pucik]

No.

[Don La Greca]

So you'd have to go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's saying he's not a fraud, Don.

[Don La Greca]

No, but what if the Yankees are?

[D]

Yeah, exactly.

[Don La Greca]

But the Yankees play the metal there.

[D]

Oh, absolutely. But as far as just to go, just as the tickets that he's provided to me in the past, I won't go. Out of principle. I won't go. You know.

[Don La Greca]

Let me ask you this quick. I'll let you make your point. Am I a fraud that I go to Patriot games? Take the kids minor league?

[D]

No, you don't.

[Don La Greca]

It's the Yankee Double A affiliate. I'm a method.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you rooting?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. I want to see the Patriots do well. Why would I see them?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that your hometown team?

[Anthony Pucik]

Of course it is.

[Don La Greca]

I'm at Somerset. I live there. The kids.

[Anthony Pucik]

Who gets more excited? Who gets you more excited when you show up to a game real quick, the New York Mets or the Patriots?

[Don La Greca]

Oh, the Patriots.

[Anthony Pucik]

That's what I thought.

[Don La Greca]

I'm not Grimace. I'm not the Hawk to a girl. I never threw out a first pitch in the Met game.

[Anthony Pucik]

You're far from October.

[Don La Greca]

I'm sorry, Javi. That doesn't broad does it?

[D]

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. That's a good. That's a good. That was a good point that you made. No, but real quick. Honestly, I'm like with Han. I just think there's no accountability with the Yankees at this point that just. There just isn't. Cashmere should have been gone years ago. And I don't want to start the whole process right now. You guys have been talking about it at lengths and for months now, but that. I think that's what it comes down to, this lack of accountability. There's also no pride. You know, Josh, the other day, he. He had a chance to move the runner over. He's taking three huge swings. There's no pride in the game anymore either. I just. With the Yankees, I think there's a problem with baseball now that there's 14 teams that go to the postseason. It's even more egregious that the Yankees have to struggle. Look at Tampa Bay, 27th in the payroll and right now they're only two games behind us. So lack of accountability. I don't know if how it's going to do something if they don't go far this year, but it just continues to become the ongoing. You can see the picture what it's going to end. Rosenberg talks about it all the time. We're going to get there and then all of a sudden Judge is not going to hit his weight and then they're going to go, they're going to get bounced. We won't make the World Series. And then Michael K. Makes fun of us because he thinks that the Detroit Tigers are not for real. But they got pitching, they got pitching. They're going to, they're going to end up, in my opinion. I think Detroit goes this year.

[Don La Greca]

Well, it would be very interesting to see, Javier, and thank you for the phone call. If they take a step back because now you went to the World Series. All right. If you take a step back, will there be any accountability? I would probably say no. Cashman and Boone both got new contracts recently, but we'll see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.