Alan Hahn (2:30)

We got calls yesterday, Peter. You remember what the fans were telling us?

Don Hahn (2:34)

Oh, I remember.

Alan Hahn (2:35)

Well, they don't want to see the quarterback taken. They, they were throwing out different names, different, different players they want. And a quarterback is not it at 16.

Peter Rosenberg (2:45)

Okay. And I respect them, but they don't know Jack. Just like Mel Kuiper doesn't know Jack and Dan Orlovsky doesn't know Jack. They're educated guesses, but nobody knows.

Caller Ethan (2:56)

So.

Peter Rosenberg (2:56)

So Ty Simpson becomes the next Patrick Mahomes, who has taken 10th overall, by the way.

Alan Hahn (3:00)

Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (3:01)

How are you gonna walk that back? Like, so you're gonna admit you were wrong, or are you gonna call up 10 years later and go, you know, I always loved him. I knew they should have picked him. Like, I understand you don't trust the jets, although I don't understand why you wouldn't trust Muji. What has he done right, to make you think that he's untrustworthy? Other than being the jets general manager, which I get the history, but the history can change if you hire the right people. But that's why, you know, talking about it with Peter, I think you had gone to the Knicks last week just about. Like, that's what's so ridiculous about the draft. People show so much passion and hatred and joy for picks that are just a guess. And then, then we find out if it's going to work out or not. Now, if you want to get mad if Ty Simpson turns out to be a dog like every other jets quarterback, well, then I can understand you being upset about it, but you don't give it a chance. And to see that maybe this kid's a diamond in the rough and root form, and maybe you look back and go, that was a hell of a pick at 16. Like, I understand disappointment because there's certain guys you want and certain guys you don't. But do you really know enough to. To be that angered by what they do or don't do?

Alan Hahn (4:05)

I mean, football fans do react with passion, Passion, regardless. You were just talking about people that are actually spending the money to go spend an entire day standing with thousands of other people outside of a draft of players that they really don't know anything about.

Peter Rosenberg (4:21)

Right. And I brought up, I don't think you were here for some reason. Like, I bring up the 96 draft.

Alan Hahn (4:27)

Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (4:28)

And I, like, I wanted Simeon Rice so bad, thought he was going to be great. They needed an edge pass rusher. I was told it's a three player draft and the Giants were picking fourth and they went with Cedric Jones and it was an awful pick. Oh, later on in the first round, Ray Lewis. Oh, later on in the first round, Marvin Harrison, like, you know what I mean? Like it is such a crapshoot. I just don't understand when it's that much of a crapshoot. And it is okay because you got people. Nobody does more homework than Mel Kuiper. No one, no one watches more college football than he does. And it's still a crapshoot because you just don't know how they're going to mature, how they're going to handle it mentally, how it all is going to work out. At the end of the day, it is at best an educated guess, but it's still a crapshoot. So why be that emotionally involved in something where it's just a luck of the draw? It's a fluke. So yeah, be disappointed. Root for your team to do what you think is right. But at the end of the day, you got to lay back and go, I will see.

Don Hahn (5:27)

Let's know while we're talking fans, lay

Alan Hahn (5:30)

back and we'll see. Don, are you new to sports in America? Are you new to this? Lay back and we'll see. Don't you know everybody is now an expert and screaming about it is, look, if you're right you can play it back. If you're wrong, you just shrug and move on. That's, that's everything about sports today.

Peter Rosenberg (5:50)

Yeah, but this one, we all got to have our arbitrary than most. Okay, I agree.

Alan Hahn (5:57)

The draft is a crapshoot. There's no given nothing in any draft. So no matter what league it is, I don't care who you are and how much research you do, there's a human element to draft. That means a human's coming into your system, into your program, into your plates and you don't know how he's going to react or what he's going to do. You, you have no idea. It's all hope. You hope it works out. Some franchises get it right. Why do they get it right? Because they're a good franchise, they function well. And when they get it wrong, what do they do? They don't waste any time. Get your ass out of here. They move on from a guy quickly when they realize this guy ain't it. Some franchises can't do that. And they get stuck with bad players, but otherwise, don't act like this is an exact science. Tanking for a draft pick is not a science, it is a guess.

Peter Rosenberg (6:44)

Now, over a five, six year period, every, every draft to you ends up being a negative. Well then maybe you don't know what you're doing. And fans could be angry and fire the general manager and blow it up and move in a different direction.

Alan Hahn (6:55)

Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (6:55)

I'm just saying for this moment, because you brought up Rick. Rick is a very educated fan. I give him tremendous credit how much work he puts into doing an amazing show with Dave.

Alan Hahn (7:05)

I don't know a former athlete that does more research than Rick when it comes to sports talk.

Peter Rosenberg (7:10)

Right. I mean he, he is terrific. He's not riding the coattails being the first overall no NHL. He's doing yes, and I admire him for that. And I also believe that he's a really good fan. But to be angered if you were to walk out or be front or throw, like, come on, man. It's just. It's too arbitrary. Yeah, sports are arbitrary. I get it. But this specifically to be that emotionally invested in something that you just don't know. There's no way to know. Guys that have watched Ty Simpson play every down in college know. So you parachute in a month before the draft to go, I really want him. You start looking at YouTube video, you start reading all the articles and now you're emotionally invested and you decide you want them or you don't want them. Well, guys that put a hundred times more work than you did can get it wrong. So why be that emotional about it? Come on, man. I get this fan means fanatic. But it's. It's almost over the top though, because this makes zero sense.

Don Hahn (8:09)

So yesterday we played audio from Dan Orlofsky talking about just how strongly he felt about Ty Simpson. Well, today on Unsportsmanlike, Schefter was on the program saying there's no guarantee Simpson even goes in the first round.

Sports Analyst (8:20)

We don't expect he's going in the top 10 picks. The jets are at 16. I'm not feeling that right now. We'll see how that plays out. Not feeling that at all. No. People talked about the Rams. I think the Rams are a win now team. You never know. Could happen a series a group of teams in the 20s that become interesting. I think Cleveland's at 24, Miami's at 30. You know, you wonder if Arizona or somebody else could get back into the first round a lot. Jackson Dart. It's not simple to identify a place where he's going to go as much as people think he is likely to go in the first round.

Peter Rosenberg (8:53)

But that circumstances. Right. Like the Rams are really interesting. You would say the Rams are one of those teams that know what they're doing.

Don Hahn (9:01)

They could love in general. Yeah, I'd say so.

Peter Rosenberg (9:03)

They can love Ty Simpson but they're trying to win now with a 38 year old quarterback. They'd be silly to draft a quarterback at 16. They need to find a weapon to win now. So they might love him, they might think he's a great quarterback but they won't take him in the first round. So don't read into he's not a first round quarterback. There's only a handful of teams that need a quarterback and not all of them can afford maybe to draft a project or maybe their situation just doesn't allow them to take Ty Simpson at this moment. So people say I don't see him going in the first round. That doesn't necessarily mean he's not a first round talent. It's just unfortunately the circumstances because if the Rams needed a quarterback guys if Stafford decided to retire tomorrow, they might take him at 16, heck they might trade up to get him. But we don't know that because they're not in the business of getting a quarterback at 16 when they're trying to win now.

Alan Hahn (9:58)

It's the lack of games experience And I think also the pushback was the fact that Dan really went in by saying he's the best quarterback prospect in the draft meaning that he would put him over Mendoza when it comes to potential. And so the pushback was there because you know like guys like Kuiper and others said Mendoza is the finished product. Like this is a guy that's played a lot of college games. There's a ton of tape, accuracy, size six five, like all the things that you want he's got and that will

Peter Rosenberg (10:31)

say that was, I think it was

Alan Hahn (10:32)

the bigger pushback of that than it was anything else because Dan's feeling was he's the best prospect in this draft. Like you can turn him into something because there are a lot of things about him as a quarterback that you like potential wise that you could work on, you could build.

Don Hahn (10:47)

Go ahead Don.

Peter Rosenberg (10:48)

Is he complimenting Ty Simpson or is he criticizing the draft class?

Don Hahn (10:54)

No, no, no, listen here. Here's specifically Orlovsky saying why Simpson's better than Mendoza.

Dan Orlovsky (10:59)

I think ty Simpson is QB1. I think Ty Simpson is the best quarterback in this class. I think when you look at the body of work and what was asked of these two quarterbacks, you have to start with the question who needed to do more to carry their football team to play well? Ty Simpson. And it's not close between those two quarterbacks who took more games over throughout the course of the season. Ty Simpson. It's not Even close. We're trying to see what you are as a player in college and what you're going to be asked to do in the NFL and what translates. I start with, what do you do in moments of panic with the football? Because that's really what separates good to great. I would tell you that Ty Simpson is more consistent in that regard. What guy was asked to do more NFL throws? When I say NFL throws, I'm talking 15, 20, 25 yard in routes, crossing routes, deep corner or sail routes. Ty Simpson. And it's not even close in that regard. So when it comes to moments of panic and big throws, real NFL throws, I think it's clearly Ty Simpson.

Don Hahn (11:59)

See, so it's a straight up compliment done.

Peter Rosenberg (12:03)

Yeah, I can. I can give a lot of credit for him having that, but it's still a reach. When everybody has him going later, Mendoza is the safer pick. And I'm not saying this is the way you should draft. You should never draft this way. You go by your own board, not everybody else's. But if you draft Mendoza and it fails, nobody's going to kill you because he was the consensus number one pick. He's the national champion. You're taking a chance taking Ty Simpson. And that's why it's so difficult to be a general manager, because if you take Ty Simpson, if you take Daniel Jones, where the Giants took him at six, you're taking a chance. You're going against convention. Mendoza is the safe pick. And if he doesn't work out, nobody's gonna kill Vegas for it. You know, Mendoza didn't work out. If they don't take Mendoza, that would raise more eyebrows, right?

Don Hahn (13:00)

Mm.

Peter Rosenberg (13:01)

If they took Ty Simpson, people would freak out, Right? Well, that's where it starts to get a little dicey.

Don Hahn (13:07)

Now, a lot of people have talked about this, this suggestion that Orlovsky is big on Simpson because there's both CAA clients. Here's Arlovsky on McAfee defending himself.

Dan Orlovsky (13:21)

I see a lot of the things that get said don't address them all type of thing, but the agents work for us, not the other way around. Just so everybody knows they're employed by us. Respectfully. That's how the business model is. CAA is a very big agency. They have a lot of people. That's all I'll say on that. I'm not nearly important enough to CAA financially for them to pay me to say something about a guy who might be the 20th pick in the draft. Okay. So it's not worth them. I don't make enough money for them to pay me money to say that. But people can think what they want. There is no motive behind this. There is no ulterior motive behind this.

Don Hahn (13:58)

I mean, it's a silly take for people to have.

Alan Hahn (14:01)

I need to know. Who's suggesting that I need to know.

Evan Cohen (14:05)

The Internet.

Alan Hahn (14:06)

No, it can't be anybody in our business.

Don Hahn (14:09)

No, it's the Internet.

Alan Hahn (14:09)

Be anyone who actually has any type of media background. It can't be, because all of us who work in this business, those of us who happen to have an agent, we know that's not how it works. You don't work for the agency. They work for you. They don't come to you. Hey, we need you to do this. No, no. You work for me. I don't do favors for you. I don't do things for you. That doesn't make sense. So whatever. Like, Don. Like you understand this, right? Like, that's not how it works in this business.

Don Hahn (14:41)

But I will say. I will say this, though. It. There's a little. First of all, I don't think Dan. Specifically for Dan. I have no reason to think anything nefarious at all. However, there is sort of a gray area that's being ignored, which is that you could have relationships within the agency, not in which they pay you to do anything, but which. Because there are friendships and there is positive energy.

Alan Hahn (15:03)

No, no. What do you mean? Not something this important. That's your credibility and reputation on the line. You're going to say something as strong as that?

Don Hahn (15:11)

Well, he went really.

Alan Hahn (15:11)

You don't really believe in it, but I'm looking out for a friend.

Don Hahn (15:14)

No, no.

Alan Hahn (15:15)

Here's the NFL freaking draft. Dan, you don't do that.

Don Hahn (15:18)

That's his whole livelihood.

Alan Hahn (15:19)

It's his business.

Don Hahn (15:20)

Hear what I'm saying? That's why I'm saying I'm not talking about Dan. No. I don't think Dan would go on a limb and say Ty Simpson's the best quarterback in the draft. Better than the kid who won the Heisman Trophy and the national championship. No, but I'm trying. But I don't want to ignore. Because people. What happens is when you ignore the idea of there being any sort of favoritism anywhere, people then tend to think you're outright. No. There could be a world in which one person, another person have the same agent, or their agents are friends, and so you're a little bit favorable towards that person when you. When you talk about them or whatever it may be. But for a guy like Dan orlofsky whose entire business is built on the takes he makes that the juice would not be worth the squeeze. What kind of favor would that be?

Alan Hahn (16:02)

It doesn't make sense if you don't. How about Mike Tannenbaum? Do we trust him?

Don Hahn (16:06)

I trust Mike Tannenbaum.

Alan Hahn (16:07)

All right, Mike. Mike Tannenbaum tweeted this yesterday. The gap between Fernando Mendoza and Ty Simpson is much smaller than the gap between the number two quarterback and the number three quarterback, which is a significant difference. He said that. That also said this in talking to clubs, this opinion. This is at a retweet, of course, of Dan Orlofsky in talking to clubs. This opinion is shared by other teams as well.

Don Hahn (16:34)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (16:34)

What Dan is saying is not a favor. What Dan is saying is something that his eyes are seeing and they're all hearing.

Peter Rosenberg (16:40)

But. But even what Mike Tannenbaum said, I think you need to dig a little deeper in the sense that it could be close. I mean, picking 1 in 16, it's only 15 slots, and not every one of those 15 slots needs a quarterback.

Alan Hahn (16:57)

Right, but.

Peter Rosenberg (16:58)

And again, Mendoza is the safer pick. He came off winning a national championship. He's older, so they could be dead even as far as ability is concerned. And Mendoza will be slightly ahead because he's a little bit more experienced, won a national championship, and he's the consensus number one. So that's the safer pick.

Don Hahn (17:16)

But.

Peter Rosenberg (17:17)

So the fact that they're close doesn't necessarily mean that Simpson's better or that they're that close to where you would even think about taking Simpson before Mendoza?

Don Hahn (17:28)

Well, no, I.

Peter Rosenberg (17:29)

Too deep into that, but I.

Don Hahn (17:30)

What I see from Mike T's tweet is that it's just not an outrageous claim that one would prefer Simpson to Mendoza, because even if you're a big Mendoza guy over Simpson, the gap's just not that big. One way or the other. They're in the same class, whereas after two, the class drops off considerably.

Alan Hahn (17:49)

And can we also agree that we've been saying since last September that this is not considered a strong quarterback draft? And I don't think everybody is madly in love with Fernando Mendoza as an NFL prospect. I think he had a great. He had a great year at Indiana last year. He did everything right. He did everything. Won the Heisman, won the national championship. What more does he have to do? So, of course he is going to be a guy that we talk about and he's going to be the first quarterback taken. But I don't think anybody's looking at it as this is a generational pick. So this. I don't understand why this is such a. Like this is such blasphemy. Ty Simpson has talent now. He's six two, maybe six. One size isn't really there. Doesn't have a lot of games experience starting wise, which is also a concern. But it's not like there's not enough tape that shows you there are some good things there. He's just not a guy you're going to draft and put in. You're not going to make him QB1 the day you draft him. That's just what's wrong with that. I think we should do that more often. In the NFL things change.

Peter Rosenberg (18:54)

This was around the time where all of a sudden you saw Baker Mayfield jump over Sam Darnold like it is. It is possible that between now and the draft it won't be that crazy that taking Simpson over Mendoza would flabbergast people to the point where maybe things do change. Now the Raiders obviously have the pick, so if they've made up their mind, then there won't be any movement. But there's a lot that can happen between March 24 and late April when the draft happens that don't be surprised, guys. If we're having a conversation on draft night that we're not sure who's getting picked number one, there can be momentum because I do believe right now the safe pick is Mendoza. That could still change. If people keep talking like this and more and more people and more mock drafts come out, opinions can sway to the point where it's not that crazy.

Don Hahn (19:44)

This isn't one of those iconic locks.

Caller Ethan (19:47)

No.

Don Hahn (19:47)

You know, it's not Andrew Luck that that's not what's happening.

Alan Hahn (19:49)

Let's go to But I don't see it. I definitely don't see a change.

Don Hahn (19:52)

I wouldn't think so. But we could all remember plenty of locks or thing.

Alan Hahn (19:57)

We all know the games that are played by other teams, especially ones that aren't taking a quarterback that might want to put stuff out there to cause some panic in a team that might have to trade up. We worried about trading up and now my pick that I think might not have a lot of value at 10 or 12, whatever it is. Now all of a sudden maybe I can get a team interested in trading for that pick and getting some capital because I scared them into thinking that the guy's going to be off the board and maybe I want to take them. All that stuff is still. There's a lot of chess being played between now and late April, let's go to the phones.

Don Hahn (20:31)

Let's go to Ethan on the Upper east side. What's up, Ethan?

Caller Ethan (20:34)

Hey, Alan. Saying that Orlofsky's take on Simpson being the best QB in the draft is totally organic and it's real. And it's, it's, that's nonsense. If Mendoza turns out to be so much better than Simpson, Orlovsky is not going to lose jobs, he's not going to lose money. No one's going to question his integrity. At most he goes, you know what? I was wrong. And Dan goes about his life.

Alan Hahn (21:01)

That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. You keep making bold statements like that on national television, your credibility is shot. People, stop listening.

Caller Ethan (21:10)

Nobody in the media is ever called on the carpet for being wrong about a qb. You know, it's a crapshoot. We didn't know. He only had a few starts. You know, I saw it on the.

Alan Hahn (21:20)

You think he's bought? You're telling me he's bought? Is that what you tell. You're telling me that he's bought and he's doing this as a favor rather than him saying he believes it?

Caller Ethan (21:28)

I think, I think the game in the sports media is say things that get New York drive time sports radio to play you and talk about you over and over. Because if you lose, if you're wrong, nobody cares. Nobody cares.

Alan Hahn (21:42)

I don't think that motivation is that,

Peter Rosenberg (21:44)

I don't think that that take makes more sense than he's doing it for caa. I'm not saying that that's what Dan Orovsky is doing, but that opinion has more traction than him doing a video, than a conspiracy theory.

Alan Hahn (21:58)

You know what? I don't. I forgot to call his name. I apologize. But Ethan, if, Ethan, if that's what you're saying that you think, it's not, it's not about the agency, but more about, hey, I got to juice it up. Let me say something that I know will get traction because it's, it's a quiet part of the draft process. If you want to believe that, I can't tell you you're wrong or right. It's not something I would do, but if that's what. I'd rather that than the fact that the agency is like, hey, Dan, do this for us. Like, I, I, I'm not buying that. But if you're saying that Dan might be just trying to do something up because he can make a case for it, I can't argue with it.

Don Hahn (22:36)

Yeah, no, Don, we've talked about that a lot over the years.

Alan Hahn (22:39)

I can't argue with it.

Don Hahn (22:40)

People don't generally get held accountable later for their terrible sports talk. Takes that is that is a thing that you don't see.

Alan Hahn (22:46)

In other I know damn well enough that I don't know if he operates like that. I know he said stuff in the past people have brought up. He was extolling the talents of Zach Wilson at one point too. So I don't remember it, to be honest with you. But I don't know Dan to be a guy that's like, yeah, what the hell, I'll juice this up. Even though I know it's wrong, I can't see him.

Don Hahn (23:06)

He's not the only one. A lot I do remember Dan holding on to hope for Zach Wilson. But he ain't the only one. A lot of people were hanging on to him.

Peter Rosenberg (23:14)

Steve Young did. Now Steve Young knew him and worked. But still, Steve Young was very bullish.

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Podcast Host (25:37)

for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Don Hahn (25:40)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Podcast Host (25:41)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes you just can't take it anymore. This is let's Talk About It Tuesday with Don Han and Rosenberg.

Don Hahn (26:02)

God, what an unhinged lunatic was on the radio on that drop screaming hang up on this idiot. Clearly someone who is demented out of

Alan Hahn (26:10)

their mind and he needs to talk about it.

Don Hahn (26:13)

Home of fresh bread. Classic Italian pastries. Trust me, the tiramisu is incredible. Don. A lot of people unhappy with my pronunciations. Yeah, yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (26:24)

Did you just was just a tough day or is that the way you thought it was?

Don Hahn (26:28)

I naturally go there and I realized it's the same thing as me mispronouncing Shanae's last name. Ogumike is the proper pronunciation.

Alan Hahn (26:38)

There you go.

Don Hahn (26:39)

I say Ogumike.

Alan Hahn (26:43)

She might even added a syllable in there too.

Don Hahn (26:45)

I may have tiramisu. It's tiramisu. Correct. Termisu.

Peter Rosenberg (26:49)

Yes.

Don Hahn (26:50)

And I say tiramisu.

Alan Hahn (26:51)

I don't know.

Don Hahn (26:52)

I'm big on the third syllable, I guess.

Peter Rosenberg (26:54)

But you know what? Again, like what happened with cockroach, right? Like nobody corrected. Nobody said anything. It's. I don't know. I don't know if you've ever experienced this phenomenon is there was a hit song that was big, you know, 40

Don Hahn (27:11)

years ago, 30 was a day.

Peter Rosenberg (27:12)

Whatever, whatever your age. And it just missed you. Like you just happened. Never really to hear. Kind of just slips through the cracks for you and all of a sudden you relive it like I don't remember that song. And it was like, you don't remember that song. It's always on the radio. It just missed me. So that could happen. The words. You mispronounce a word, nobody corrects you youu continue to say it and now 30 years later, it's like I'm saying Cockroach. When it's cockroach. So it can happen with you, like you probably said. And people like he said that weird, but all right, whatever, you know, and let him go. Never get corrected. And now it's just part of like circum. Nobody ever. Nobody ever corrected me until you two gentlemen. You and Michael came into my life.

Don Hahn (27:52)

Well, we care.

Peter Rosenberg (27:53)

And now it's been succumb ever since then. But it's tough to break habits, man.

Alan Hahn (27:57)

Did sir come ever become a cartoon character?

Don Hahn (27:59)

No, he's porn star and a night.

Alan Hahn (28:03)

Did they make him a knight Graphics Joker had to have made a character. Had.

Don Hahn (28:10)

No.

Peter Rosenberg (28:10)

I don't think the backstory of circum is that he was. He was. He was a porn star that never really made it because he kept getting everybody pregnant. And they finally kicked him out of the business.

Don Hahn (28:22)

They said, you can't just come in here and get everybody pregnant.

Alan Hahn (28:24)

But he was a British man and he was knighted.

Don Hahn (28:26)

He was knighted at something. Yeah, that's when he became sir.

Peter Rosenberg (28:28)

Well, that was his thing. Like he'd always come in instead of delivering pizzas. He just came in in like full night garb. It was a whole big thing. Just.

Alan Hahn (28:36)

That's why it didn't work.

Peter Rosenberg (28:37)

A lot of noise.

Alan Hahn (28:38)

Yeah. He was wearing the whole.

Don Hahn (28:43)

I'll tell you what, though.

Peter Rosenberg (28:44)

Hell of a sword, though.

Don Hahn (28:46)

Hey, Don, did you hear yesterday when Alan. This was Alan commenting. We were discussing something Dave Rothenberg said on his program, and this is how Alan responded to it. Hmm.

Alan Hahn (28:55)

It's good take.

Don Hahn (29:00)

Troubling. No.

Peter Rosenberg (29:02)

Well, I'm assuming even though he said

Don Hahn (29:04)

good take that he didn't mean it.

Peter Rosenberg (29:06)

Believe that it was a good day.

Alan Hahn (29:08)

No, it was just such a. The way they described it was that whatever he said was like a very basic thing to say. So I was like, yeah, good take.

Don Hahn (29:16)

That's all there was. And that was it moved on.

Peter Rosenberg (29:18)

No, but somebody must have thought it was good if it was repurposed on

Monster Energy Announcer (29:21)

your show, I guess, right?

Don Hahn (29:23)

No, it wasn't.

Alan Hahn (29:24)

Not about. This is. What about Dave. This was not about Dave.

Don Hahn (29:26)

It was. It's not an indictment of Dave is what you're saying.

Alan Hahn (29:28)

No, it was not an indictment on Dave.

Don Hahn (29:30)

All right, so who's up first with the. With the talk about it of the Tuesday? Alan?

Caller Ethan (29:39)

No.

Peter Rosenberg (29:41)

Shot out of a cannon, Don.

Alan Hahn (29:43)

We had. Had something. There were two things that I said we could talk about. Sure, I guess. All right. I guess I'll do this then.

Don Hahn (29:52)

All right.

Alan Hahn (29:53)

Because we really did the judge stuff. The judge thing was what I really wanted to talk about and how it's more, it's, it's really just more a look at fans in the way they are today. But we already did that.

Peter Rosenberg (30:03)

Yes.

Alan Hahn (30:04)

So instead how about we talk about the fact that tonight the Knicks end to seven a run of seven straight games against teams with a losing record. Now the Pelicans might be a losing team record wise, but lately playing better and they got Zion and whatever. But it just makes me think about the fact that I just saw this is going to be seven straight games of some of the worst teams in the NBA. Teams that aren't even trying to win. We're talking about two weeks worth of bad teams and we're going to add two more now to this. They're going to add two more teams to this sport that already has enough teams tanking that you could fill a two week schedule of games against. And it's like when you think about why the NBA and also Major League Baseball, which Major League Baseball is top heavy, we can all agree going into the season starts tomorrow. And what do you have? How many, how many haves and have nots? What would you say it's 20, 80?

Peter Rosenberg (31:03)

20%.

Alan Hahn (31:04)

80%. Right. Teams that legit have a chance to win a World Series versus teams that probably should just not even bother.

Peter Rosenberg (31:11)

Well, just real quick, SNY came out with all of their baseball people's predictions on the World Series. It was literally six different teams.

Alan Hahn (31:23)

That's a lot.

Peter Rosenberg (31:23)

Or Yankees or Mariners, but really six. And one of them had the Cubs. All right. Only one had the Cubs.

Alan Hahn (31:32)

So it's everybody that makes a division round.

Peter Rosenberg (31:35)

Yeah, it would just be. But, but it just like you've got 30 teams and they're saying that they're, they had like 12 different people and they all had like six different teams that could go to the World Series.

Alan Hahn (31:48)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (31:48)

And, and obviously way less than that that actually can win the World Series.

Alan Hahn (31:52)

So.

Peter Rosenberg (31:53)

So yeah, you're talking about a very slim amount.

Alan Hahn (31:55)

So from the NBA perspective, it's like it's already bad. And adding two is going to make it worse because you're adding two expansion teams. And it's not like you, you have this large pool of talent that's just going to make two really good teams. It's going to thin it out even more. And so how does that make the tanking thing and all that other stuff go away? It's not, it's not going to do that. So there's that. And then I look at Major League Baseball, I'm Thinking, all right, well, baseball season starting, and it's the same thing. This is the hope springs eternal of game one out of 162, and everybody has a chance. And I thought that as a kid. And you realize that's a bunch of crap. It is. So, like, what are we doing in sports? The NFL is the only league that you feel like, at least, would you say, at the start the season, half the league thinks they got a shot. Because if you get off to a good start, you don't have injuries and some things kick your way, and maybe you have an easy schedule, you got a shot. But in the other sports, these other two majors and you've already done. You've already talked about the NHL and that problem, you're going to knock out good teams in the first round, which makes no sense. You got a point structure that could keep a great team out of the playoffs altogether because they don't lose in overtime. But I'm saying just these two things, these two entities. What we're seeing the end of tonight at the Garden and what starts tomorrow in San Francisco, two of the most popular sports in our country, and this feeling of there's not really many teams that are going to have a true chance to do anything. And what are we watching regular seasons for anymore? Because all it seems to be about is can you win a championship or not? And if you can't, the worst thing you can be now. Don Peter, the worst thing you could be now is a team that are basically what the Yankees do, winning season every year, make the playoffs regularly, but don't win a championship. That has now become the worst place to be in sports. It's better to be terrible and in the draft or great and have a chance to win a championship. But in the middle, no, you never want to be that anymore. Consistently good. No, we don't want to be that. And I feel like, where did that begin? And is there any way out? I don't think there is.

Peter Rosenberg (34:09)

Yeah, because I was thinking about it. I really. It's usually a fan philosophy. I really don't see a lot of tanking in the NHL, but fans do, like Ranger fans, just lose every game. I want to be able to get a better chance at the pick. But, you know, recently the Devils honored John McClain. So they were showing that goal against the Blackhawks and Darren Pang, where they made the playoffs for the first time in their history. Right. And that was a big deal. It's still remembered now. They went on a run to the conference final that year. But nobody knew that when they made it. Yeah, nowadays it's almost like fans don't want that. You know what? I don't want some miracle run where we barely make the playoffs. I'd rather just stink and just be out of it and get a better pick than to sneak into the playoffs on a run at the end of the season only to get bounced in the first round or potentially get bounced out of the first round. The fans mentality now is, listen, rather than go on some miracle run, let me just be awful. I'll root for them to lose so we can get a pick. Why? Because I'm hoping eventually we'll win a championship. Like, that's the mentality. Instead of how about enjoying just being good?

Don Hahn (35:15)

Good, good.

Alan Hahn (35:16)

Like good baseball.

Don Hahn (35:17)

Just.

Alan Hahn (35:17)

I'm watching good baseball all year. This is nice.

Peter Rosenberg (35:20)

No, at some point, like a net fan, like, the Nets have been tanking all year. But there is probably a point where, hey, if we rattle off a few wins in a row, we might get in the play in and the fans will be like, I don't want the play. And I just, I want to stink. I want to be able to get a draft pick.

Alan Hahn (35:33)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (35:34)

So you don't want to see your team play well. You don't want to see your team make the playoffs. You just rather stink for years in the hope on the spec that maybe you land a lottery pick that's going to turn it all around.

Alan Hahn (35:47)

The dream of the lottery pick that changes everything. The Cade Cunningham for the Pistons. Right. Like that's, you know, they had. And then they lost 23 straight games when he was a rookie. 23 straight games, Don. Like, this is what they did. But. But look what it's led to. You know what it's led to? The anxiety of. We have to win now. I mean, they're real. They've had one of their best seasons that they've had since, again, their championship years. This is the best season in 15 years we're talking about. And yet it's going to feel like, what's the use if they don't win the title? That's just become a thing now. You can't sit back and just say, you know what? I'm really enjoying watching my team. Every year we have good teams instead. It's. What good is it if we can't win a championship? And it's. And when you look at it year after year, a small percentage of the teams have a chance. Small percentage. And you'd rather lose than be consistently good every year.

Peter Rosenberg (36:51)

Well, Just off the top of your head, how many teams are tanking and

Alan Hahn (36:54)

the NBA in the NBA tank right now?

Peter Rosenberg (36:57)

The patience.

Alan Hahn (36:58)

Eight. Eight solid eight.

Peter Rosenberg (37:01)

Like purposely tanking.

Alan Hahn (37:02)

I'm going with eight.

Peter Rosenberg (37:03)

Eight teams are throwing a season away.

Alan Hahn (37:05)

Just. Just gave it away. Yeah. I got.

Peter Rosenberg (37:07)

I got news for you. All eight of those teams aren't going to win. All eight of those teams aren't going to.

Alan Hahn (37:13)

I got Indiana, Washington, Brooklyn, Sacramento, Utah, for sure.

Peter Rosenberg (37:18)

That's five.

Alan Hahn (37:18)

Yeah. Memphis, Milwaukee, Chicago. Chicago threw away everything. When they saw they weren't having a good season, they pulled the plug. Yeah. I mean, New Orleans is not. Because they don't own their pick. So they're not. I didn't think Dallas was, but I

Peter Rosenberg (37:36)

guess they are well now because they could be. It's been all over the news. It just shows you how big the Mavericks can be in this town that, like, if they, I guess they lose tonight, they're officially eliminated for the playoffs.

Alan Hahn (37:46)

Yeah. Yeah. Same with New Orleans. If New Orleans lose. But it doesn't matter to them, you know, Memphis, you know, they're not trying. They. They traded away, you know, Jaren Jackson Jr. So, I mean, it's almost 10, Don. It's almost 10.

Don Hahn (38:00)

So.

Peter Rosenberg (38:00)

And I know it's a deep draft, but somebody is tanking that is going to get the ninth overall pick in the draft. All right. Obviously, because you've got nine teams tanking. They all can't pick first overall. Right. So you're throwing a season away to get the 8th or 9th best player in the draft. And maybe that player turns out to be great, but in all odds, it's probably not going to be. And that's just, I guess, because you're younger and you're like, I'll throw a season away. But I just. I grew up a Met fan and a Giant fan primarily through my life. And then when the Devils came, I became a Devil fan. But growing up, my childhood was spent Giants and Mets, and they weren't good, but I still enjoyed watching the games and going to the occasional game and. And then when the Giants, you know, snuck into the playoffs, it was joyous. It was fun to be able to see that. When the Mets started to build something, it never occurred to me, lose and get draft picks.

Don Hahn (38:54)

It was just like, I just want

Peter Rosenberg (38:55)

to enjoy the game. Championship wasn't even on my radar. That didn't have to be the reason why I rooted for the team. That didn't have to. That was a goal. That was something I longed for. I remember leaving Cooperstown one Day when my family went there and I said, dad, are the Mets ever gonna win a World Series? Like, one day. One day they will. It's gonna be really sweet because you waited for it for so long, never thought about tanking and purposely losing games, just hoping that you build something. But, oh, you missed the best part.

Don Hahn (39:22)

The tanking's the fun part.

Alan Hahn (39:24)

No, it's not, is it?

Don Hahn (39:25)

No.

Alan Hahn (39:26)

There's no way. Living through a seat.

Don Hahn (39:27)

No.

Alan Hahn (39:27)

Again, we go back to the Jet conversation and the argument we've had with the morning show about how you got to suck again for another year. And it's like, well, they might suck again just because they just don't have enough talent, but this idea of rooting for it and wanting it, it's. I just cannot wrap my head. Look, if you're talking about the last week of the season and there's the difference between picking second and picking third or whatever it is, I get it. I totally understand it. I can buy in. But when you're just starting a season off going well, you know, we really don't want to win this year. We want to get a high draft because next year's quarterback collapse is going to be great. I'm thinking, like, how is that any way to go through life? And then you wonder also, Don. Peter, this is what I also think is the reason why sports might be losing its luster, especially locally, especially with rooting for teams that's going away, I think for younger people, because they might look at a team that is tanking. I'm not a diehard, so I don't understand this stuff. And I'm telling you, well, son, we don't want the jets to win this year. What do you mean, dad? We don't want them to win. We want to get a high draft pick next year. So you want to go to game, you know, week three, you want to go? No. Why would I want to go watch a team lose?

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Alan Hahn (40:40)

To me, it's so damaging to sports in what it was always supposed to be.

Don Hahn (40:45)

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Podcast Host (43:04)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Don Hahn (43:08)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Podcast Host (43:09)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want to. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Alan Hahn (43:19)

They are more than conventional.

Don Hahn (43:21)

It sounds like what Don like a wrestling intro.

Peter Rosenberg (43:25)

It's good take like somebody uses this as their intro music not terrible. I know it's ozzy but it sounded like somebody uses this AY has been just arbitrarily using this song.

Don Hahn (43:38)

We don't Know, we don't know what Jacob's thinking ever, do we? Was there any logic, Jacob, Any reason?

Alan Hahn (43:43)

No logic, no reasoning.

Don Hahn (43:44)

See, he just does what he does. You hate when Jacob does that.

Peter Rosenberg (43:50)

Yeah, I, I, because I, I look at it as a mailing. I, I want every rejoin to have some purpose because that's how I respect him.

Don Hahn (43:58)

And so you look at, you look at, at this, moments like this, it's like him punting on, on the art form.

Peter Rosenberg (44:05)

Yes.

Alan Hahn (44:06)

Wow.

Don Hahn (44:08)

Yeah. You look well. You let, you let Don down. It's like J. Cole and Nas.

Alan Hahn (44:13)

Yeah, I think this is great.

Don Hahn (44:14)

You let Don down.

Alan Hahn (44:14)

I think this is greater within what J. Cole did. Me letting Don down is a big disappointment.

Don Hahn (44:19)

That is upsetting.

Peter Rosenberg (44:20)

But don't you feel the same way? Like, Jacob's really made this, like, to an art form where there's some, somebody's birthday or it's some tie in and then when you find out. Nah, just decided to play.

Alan Hahn (44:30)

Well, he's just, it's something he's just feeling, that's all. He was just feeling it.

Don Hahn (44:34)

Big Aussie guy.

Peter Rosenberg (44:35)

Well, I have a big feeling and it's a feeling.

Alan Hahn (44:37)

Yeah. I must say. Don's not feeling it. You'd have been a disappointment.

Don Hahn (44:42)

We don't need to hear about your big feeling anyway. Let's go through the phones. 1-800-919-3776. As we close out this 4 o' clock hour, Sean wants to get in on talk about it Tuesday. Go ahead, Sean.

Caller Ethan (44:56)

Donna Rosenberg. I gotta talk about it too with it, because I think every driver in the city asking the same questions right now. I got up at 4 o'. Clock, I'm still stuck in the Vanity Expressway trying to get home. Back in the day, they work on the city while we slept. Less traffic, less chaos. Get in it, get out. Make sense now? They shut down the lanes in the middle of the day. Like nobody, nobody's got somewhere to be. And I'm not even complaining. I'm only, I'm honestly asking, did something change? Did we forget how to use common sense? Because right now, traffic used to be convenience. Now construction is a disruption. Help me, guys.

Alan Hahn (45:40)

This is the best call we've ever gotten on the show. Well, but this is the number one call. This is in the hall of fame. He's right. Although, other than him mispronouncing Van Wyk. Right, which, which if he's an avid listener, he knows that we fixed that problem.

Don Hahn (45:53)

But I don't know where we landed.

Alan Hahn (45:54)

I thought it was still Van Wyk No, Van Wyke. I'm not doing it anyway. But he's so right. I. I remember a day when it was evening would be when a lot of the construction got done. Pothole repair, which we know is important because we've had some terrible storms. We know that our roads can't handle it for some reason. We haven't figured out how to actually make roads that don't just crumble every single time it snows, but it just seems like. And it just goes so slow, it takes out two lanes and everyone's miserable. The time when everyone's on the road, would you think that's the time that we should do this type of construction or this type of repair? It's not even construction. It's repair I need. That must have been a policy change somewhere along the way. That said, we're no longer doing this stuff at night. Is it a safety issue? I'd like to know. At least we'll know.

Don Hahn (46:48)

It's a great question. Or do they just decide we're gonna do it all the time? Let's just do it all the time.

Alan Hahn (46:53)

All day.

Don Hahn (46:54)

24 7, 365.

Alan Hahn (46:55)

Yeah. If you are somebody who's part of the dot and you. You know about this, please let us know. Is this a change in policy? Is it a safety issue? Maybe we were finding that night distracted drivers. It's not safe for the workers. If that's true, I'd like to know, and then I'm not so upset. But if we just decided arbitrarily, let's do this during the day, it's just better for us. It's not a smart thing to do. It's dumb when the majority of the people are on the road during the day. To shut down the road during the day doesn't make sense.

Don Hahn (47:24)

Let's go to Chris at Piscataway. What's up, Chris?

Caller Ethan (47:28)

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Well, I'm glad you're having this conversation about tanking, because I have this argument all the time. I'm having it with Ranger fans right now. Like, the NFL is unique in the sense. Do you feel that fans think that there's two seasons, there's like this season and then there's draft season, and some fans would just rather win the draft than win on the field.

Alan Hahn (47:48)

It's so easy.

Caller Ethan (47:49)

That's what I think.

Alan Hahn (47:50)

That's a great point. That's back to back. Great call.

Don Hahn (47:52)

You don't get that every day.

Alan Hahn (47:53)

That's a great point. Right, Don? Like we've Seen this from fans. They're more excited about the draft because it's the currency of hope. Because you can just dream of good things happening with not having to see the actual results. You feel good because something nice is being said about a player that your team picked. So there's hope and optimism until the games begin, and then you can go back to being miserable.

Peter Rosenberg (48:14)

You know what's interesting? Because I was thinking about this might be a little too deep to get into so late in the hour, but really, why do you want your team to win? You want your team to win because they get attention. People are talking positive about your team.

Alan Hahn (48:29)

It's fun, too.

Peter Rosenberg (48:30)

Same thing can happen if you got the first overall pick in the draft. They're talking about your team. You went and you picked the best player available in the draft. You're getting attention. There's shine on you. So it does have that sensation of a championship because you're getting the same byproduct, the positive byproduct of getting attention. And people are talking about your team because you don't get a ring when you win a championship. The reason you celebrate the championship is because you watched them all year and now your team is getting their due. What's the best, the next best thing? Getting their due during the draft. Hey, what a great pick by Muji. What a tremendous job he did in the draft. Talking about your team, people excited about the team, cheering for your team, complimenting your team. It's the same kind of sensation, isn't it?

Alan Hahn (49:17)

Yeah, I guess. It just. It makes you feel good about your team.

Peter Rosenberg (49:21)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (49:22)

And you don't need results.

Peter Rosenberg (49:24)

Ultimate goal.

Alan Hahn (49:25)

Well, but you don't need results yet. Right. Like, all it is is just positive outlook on your team. And now you're excited about it this season. And then you. You know, when the results happen is when it ruins everything. But still, why Met?

Peter Rosenberg (49:38)

It's why Met fans celebrated Juan Soto. They what? They celebrated Juan Soto because of the fact that they're now a better baseball team. But winning the off season is not nothing.

Alan Hahn (49:47)

Yeah, right.

Peter Rosenberg (49:49)

Getting a little bit more attention than the Yankees wasn't nothing like that. Because ultimately, that's the only thing a fan can really appreciate about their team. Winning is the attention that their favorite team gets. What's the next best thing? Attention to the draft. Attention during free agency. Attention during the offseason.

Alan Hahn (50:07)

Be the talk of the league.

Peter Rosenberg (50:08)

Exactly. Be the talk of the town. Be the talk of the league.

Alan Hahn (50:12)

So true. We have the number one prospect class. Right. We're ranked Number one.

Don Hahn (50:21)

And we have a huge five o' clock hour on the way. Phone lines are jammed at 1-800-919-3776. But so many different topics yet to and Alan, what else do you have?

Alan Hahn (50:29)

Well, I have to tell you about projects we're doing at our house. I want to tell you about Ring's End. We're excited about some of these home improvements that we're going to do that I've been talking about on the house this spring. We're replacing some old windows and adding one as well. And it's exciting because of course it is something new to the house and everybody needs some of these things, some of these kind of things done. And to do it, we're partnering with Ring's End. Why Ring's End? Because they work with the pro contractors who build and remodel for a living. So if the pros trust them, I can trust them too, and so can you. They have premium brands and windows and doors and decking and paint, lumber, kitchens, all the stuff you need for remodeling your house, upgrading your house, updating your house built to last high end product lines that contractors rely on. They do it right, they don't do it over. And they're not a national chain. Now they have regional expertise, eight full service lumber yards in Connecticut and Westchester county and 12 freestanding paid centers as well. Rings and his family owned and operated since 1902, 124 years in business with Deep Northeast reporting local builders and communities. They're in the Northeast. They know your area. They know what your house needs. They know the style of your home as well. So if you can't make it to a store, you can also shop online@ringsend.com that is ringsend.com thanks for listening to

Podcast Host (51:47)

the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Don Hahn (51:49)

I don't want to know how the

Alan Hahn (51:50)

sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good.

Podcast Host (51:52)

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers,

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