Peter Rosenberg (1:47)

No, I really think in both cases the better team won because I think you look at rosters and we get caught up in this whole rotisserie fantasy world that we live in that the better team is the team that has the better players. But how do they play together and what do they do in the key situations that ultimately tell you whether they're better or not. And I think the reason the Pacers ended up being better, Alan, is what they went through last year. Yes, they beat the Knicks, who were beat up. Yes, they got thrown around by the Boston Celtics in the conference final. But you Learn and then you come back with pretty much the same team.

Alan Hahn (2:20)

Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (2:21)

And you take the next step. Now, I don't think they stand much of a chance against Oklahoma City, nor did I think the Knicks stood much of a chance. But it's all part of a process. The Philadelphia Sixers process, that's bogus, that's garbage. A sports process to me is learning from losing and making the necessary adjustments to take the next step. You screw that up, it falls apart, like Jenga, like you said earlier, Alan. But if you get it right, then you can become the next champion in this town and hopefully the Knicks learn their lesson and we'll be better for it next year.

Alan Hahn (2:56)

That's that, that, that's the ideal situation. That's the, that's the point you make when you want to have continuity, when you want to promote the idea of man, leave it. Just let it build, let it grow. Don't blow this whole thing up. Let's not tear this thing to shreds. I remind everybody. And Bobby Marks said this because he was well aware of it, because at the. After every team is eliminated, he does his breakdown of their off season. What' what picks they have, cap space, all that stuff. He's brilliant at this. And he remembers last year when the Pacers lost to the Boston in the conference final. The comments in his post about the Pacers off season, where everything ranging from Carlisle is not the guy, gotta fire him, to Siakam's not the right guy, gotta get him out, you gotta blow up this roster. This way of playing doesn't work. All the things that you see from frustrated fans whose season ends and the deeper you go in the playoffs, I think the more frustrated you get when you fall short. There's no one ever satisfied if the last game of your season's a loss. Am I right to say that?

Don La Greca (4:07)

Of course.

Alan Hahn (4:08)

Is there anybody that loses in the championship round and goes like, you know what? Anthony Edwards. That was fun.

Don La Greca (4:14)

Anthony Edwards.

Alan Hahn (4:14)

Well, Anthony Edwards. I'm talking about fans. But yes, Anthony Edwards did say that. You're right, and I think so. He's pointing out that this is just how people react. But that could be a brutal mistake. And so the question is, of course, the Giannis angle is not going anywhere. Not until he is either moved or he says, I'm staying. But we don't know what's going to happen there. The draft could have a big part of it. There's a lot of rumors already about teams at the top of the draft that may want to give up that high draft pick for a player of his caliber, he still has to be in on wherever he's going to go. But if he decides no, you know what? Priority wise, if I'm going to, if you're moving me, I want to go to New York, I want to play for the Knicks, I can put them over the top. That's the only time where you just say, well, if I can get a guy like that, I got to do whatever it takes to get him. But if you're not getting a guy like that, the whole quote unquote, blow up the roster thing, this is what people who don't know what they're looking at or what they're talking about say, this guy sucks. Trade him, get him off my team, he's a loser. That's somebody that doesn't know what they're looking at. So they don't know because all they know is the end result was bad game. That's not when you look at it and say, but I'll tell you what, he did have three ridiculously good games. We just need more out of him. We got to get more out of him. He's got to understand more. You saw the athletic story that they did where it was sitting there waiting. They hit send when the seat, when the last, when the buzzer sounded. That story posted almost immediately. So they had that story already ready. And the quotes about how players and coaches are frustrated with the fact that Towns would not take it. They didn't think he was taking it as serious. Defense, defense and the assignments and how there'd be games where it just looked like he had no idea what the game plan was or he didn't understand like how important it was to be intense in the moment. And now he's a 10 year vet like, like there's no learning that you either know, you don't. So they've got to have that as a group. You would think this team, when the season's over is the accountability factor has to be there where you all get together and it's like, look man, like we, we want to win this thing and we can't do it without you. Because the numbers say when you're, when you score, you also play defense. But when you're struggling with your offense, your defense sucks. Something's got to give there. So you have it out and you figure it out and you get back to this place, then you remind him, hey, remember, you guys stay locked in, bud. And when he doesn't, who's going to call him out right? Those are all the things that have to happen. But you can't do that when you first become teammates. That takes time. That takes going through pain and losing and frustration, all that stuff before you can get there again. The Pacers are a great example. The Thunder lost last year. They were 60 win team. They lost last year in the second round.

Peter Rosenberg (7:08)

Right?

Alan Hahn (7:08)

They have to go through it. Everybody goes through this. The Celtics lost in the Finals. Then they were embarrassed in the next year losing to the Heat. It wasn't until that following year where they understood how to win or they pushed through. They always learned like, you gotta go through this sometimes. And it's not easy as a fan because you want it right now. But a building process takes time and it is frustrating. But if you make crazy moves, you're going to find yourself right back where you started, which is in the lottery without a draft pick.

Peter Rosenberg (7:44)

You only blow it up or make major changes when you decide this is never going to work. And I think that's what they saw last year, that what we had isn't going to be enough. And maybe ultimately this won't be enough. But you can't have one season determine that, make little tweaks here or there. But I can't have one season that was largely successful, 51 wins, going to the conference final and say, no, this isn't going to win us a championship. When the team that's probably going to win the championship, as you said, got bounced in the second round last year. And look at what Boston had to finally go through. They took a step forward and then a step back and then eventually won the championship.

Don La Greca (8:20)

That's a great point.

Peter Rosenberg (8:20)

And we've talked about it time and time again. Do the Devils win three Stanley Cups if they don't lose that game seven to the Rangers? And they just weren't ready.

Alan Hahn (8:30)

The pain of losing that pain the.

Peter Rosenberg (8:33)

Very next year they win. You know the Giants getting humiliated in Chicago, 21 to nothing to the Bears. They talked about how we thought we were good until we faced them. And we realized we've got to go to work. You know the story with Wayne Gretzky and Edmonton losing to the Allen, right? There's. They walked away from there. And maybe there was something. Allen too. Not that they took the Pacers lightly, but maybe they thought that it was going to be a little easier than it turned out to be. Like our big monster was Boston. That was the big mountain to climb. This is. This is not the Boston Celtics. And maybe they realized not only do they have a newfound respect for the Pacers, but maybe a newfound respect for. Hey man, the conference final is a different beast.

Alan Hahn (9:12)

Yep, there's different. And that's why that game won. What you're saying about not taking lightly, but when up 17. Up 14. Late. Up 10. Late. Like that's when you got to dial it up, right? And lock in the win and not. This is not a first round against Detroit. Up 17. We could just take it home. Like, you got to understand that that's a team that last year got humiliated in the conference finals.

Peter Rosenberg (9:41)

They weren't going to stop, learn from losing. That's. That's part of it. It just chapter and verse.

Alan Hahn (9:46)

But it was too late after you learned from that, that you were chasing that game the rest of the series and every.

Peter Rosenberg (9:52)

That you just can't take any moment lightly. And the Pacers learning from the Boston series the year before, probably knew what, what they needed.

Alan Hahn (9:59)

But Don, I can't. I just, I understand if you get, if Giannis is on the table, it's a totally different conversation. But the notion of looking at the roster and seeing two all NBA players and seeing the success they had and that. And again, Brunson, we don't, I don't think we have to give his resume anymore. We already know the guy is one of the great players in today's NBA. Everybody acknowledges it, pound for pound, probably the best player in the league if you think about it size wise. But Towns is a guy that's maddening because there's games he's just so good. He was unstoppable in what, three of the games in this series. Unstoppable. But the other games, when things are happening not going his way, you lose it. And that's the problem that makes, I think it easy to say you can't win with that guy when you made the move for him and it put you to this point that you got here. So is it spending another year with him and getting him right and making sure that everybody's on the same page? Is it improving the players around those two guys, those two stars, so that you have enough depth that if he's not going, take him out? And look, Mitchell Robinson has, is a phenomenal rebounder and he's a really good defender, but he's a negative offensive player. He can't catch the ball far away from the basket. He really doesn't catch the ball well around the, around the basket unless it's at the rim. So there are deficiencies that he has. So to take it and then he gets fouled on purpose to get him out of the game and he can't make a free throw. Is that the right guy to have as the backup center, or do you need to have almost like a similar player to Towns as the backup center? So when Towns just doesn't have a going or the. Or whatever it is going on with him in that game, you can take him out because he's. When he's great, he's great.

Don La Greca (11:54)

I don't think his contrast.

Alan Hahn (11:56)

There's no middle ground with Town.

Don La Greca (11:57)

And by the way, there's great or.

Alan Hahn (11:59)

He'S not there tonight.

Don La Greca (12:00)

There is no other like Carl.

Alan Hahn (12:02)

No, I know you're right. There isn't. But I'm saying, like, you know, that's what makes. I'm trying to think of something that if you brought in another player, it doesn't take away from the offense.

Peter Rosenberg (12:13)

See, Robinson.

Alan Hahn (12:15)

Robinson makes your defense better, but he makes your offense worse. As great as he is defensively and rebounding is so much value to him.

Don La Greca (12:22)

Well, it's a bad example. I know he's not like a pure center, but almost in the way that you can use Al Horford in Boston. Yes, he's a defensive guy, but he does step back and hit every now and then.

Alan Hahn (12:33)

He's not Mitchell Robinson.

Peter Rosenberg (12:34)

No.

Don La Greca (12:34)

Like, he can be an actual offensive player.

Alan Hahn (12:36)

Yeah. Again, the problem, he's 40 years old.

Don La Greca (12:38)

I don't mean him. But is there something like that?

Alan Hahn (12:40)

If, If. If you asked me, like, what are the fit. Somebody from MSG was texting me, the network. We were just going over, like, what do you think of the offseason stuff? And one of the things was, all we need is Chris Paul and Al Horford. And I just said, don't laugh. If you're really looking at what they could use off the bench is guys like that. Problem is probably two years ago, they're both done just too late. But when you ask you, what do they need? Yeah, you need a veteran guard who knows how to run an offense who can spell Brunson. And you need a veteran big man who understands defense and yet is also a guy that can be a plus offensive player. They're hard to find, but. But they're always out there.

Don La Greca (13:20)

Is there? And then. And then on the other side, this. This was a thing a couple of years ago, and I think a couple of years ago it wouldn't have made sense to make the move for him because it would have cost too much. And I have no idea what his current situation is. Would there be value to it at this stage in his career, Klay Thompson on this team because remember that was a sexy conversation and they weren't ready for him. Now could someone like him be valuable?

Alan Hahn (13:43)

That's what, that's what Dallas was hoping. Like, it's like, yeah, the guy that just can, can get hot from three and play defense, and play defense and I think DiVincenzo is younger and a little more than that, has a little more nasty left in him.

Don La Greca (13:55)

But Clay has more, the more likelihood that he wins you a game.

Alan Hahn (13:57)

Yeah. Clay can give you a quarter. That just goes crazy.

Peter Rosenberg (13:59)

Right. But that's back to Towns for a second. Like you said, he's a 10 year vet. So is it, is, is it what it is?

Alan Hahn (14:06)

I think you just, you live with, you live with it sometimes.

Peter Rosenberg (14:09)

Is it part. He's, he's only played counting this year, 50 playoff games.

Alan Hahn (14:14)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (14:14)

Now back to back conference finals last year in Minnesota. So he's tasted it.

Alan Hahn (14:18)

Yeah, he's been there.

Peter Rosenberg (14:18)

But can he still, can he gain a little bit more experience? Can it get better for him? Even though he's a 10 year vet, not a ton of postseason experience can.

Alan Hahn (14:26)

He be at this point in his career? He's late 20s now.

Peter Rosenberg (14:30)

He's a 29. Right.

Alan Hahn (14:31)

Has he ever had an off season where he committed physically to showing up in camp lighter and like ready for the minutes? Because you know, remember he came day of first day of training camp, the trade happened first day of training camp. And I'm not saying he's a guy that wasn't in great shape, but he didn't, he doesn't run hard all the.

Peter Rosenberg (14:51)

Time, but maybe he, there's a lot.

Alan Hahn (14:53)

Of things there that like if you want to win a chip, these are the things you need to do in the off season. Are you willing to do it? There's two years left on his deal.

Peter Rosenberg (14:58)

Right.

Alan Hahn (14:59)

He's going to be eligible for an extension. Two years left on his deal. Do you want to be here forever or one more year?

Peter Rosenberg (15:04)

He's a legit great player.

Alan Hahn (15:06)

Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (15:06)

But he has not tasted anything like this year until like the last two. The Minnesota was always, you know, quick one and done playoff team. Like I said, for guys been a league 10 years, he's played 50 playoff games and that's. And that when. What, like the last two years? Yeah, like so maybe even though he's older, maybe there's still room to. Hey, this. I know you're, you're a special player, there's no question. But if you want to get to that next Level, man. And time is starting to run out.

Alan Hahn (15:34)

Yeah, it's always something. It's the finger, it's a thumb, it's the knee. Like how about taking off season now? Feeling what you felt, knowing you got two years left in your deal before you, you, you're going to be next year you'll be talking about an extension. So if he treats this off season like this is my legacy right now, do I want to be in New York forever for the rest of my career? One more contract, all that stuff, this is the off season to prove it. Show up at camp and you look and go, whoa, this, this guy looks different. He's got a different attitude about him. Does he have that in him or is he just one of these guys that just relies on his talent? Because it has done that throughout.

Peter Rosenberg (16:09)

It's important to just be a great player. Do you want to be a special player? And maybe he, maybe there's facing a.

Alan Hahn (16:14)

Ton of criticism right now and then.

Peter Rosenberg (16:16)

Maybe that can blame, maybe that can fuel him. Blanderson, Hooper, here he is. Good to talk to him here on Don Han and Rosenberg. What's up man?

Blanderson Hooper (16:25)

What's going on guys? How are you?

Peter Rosenberg (16:26)

Good.

Blanderson Hooper (16:28)

Quick point about the Knicks and then Major League Baseball, if you don't mind. In terms of the Knicks, I am a big believer in the idea that you can be disappointed in the way that the season ended but not disappointed in the season as a whole. Listen, did I think that they were going to beat the Pacers? Yes. Do I think they should have beat the Pacers? Yes. Am I disappointed with the way things turned out? Of course. But this was the best season that they have had in quite some time. And so you know, for people to be like fire tibs and all that kind of stuff, I think that kind of stuff is crazy. I believe in Leon Rose, I believe in the front office and I, I think they'll figure it out. Moving forward and just really quickly on to Major League Baseball today. I don't know if you guys know, but today is the fifth annual Major League Baseball Lou Gehrig Day.

Peter Rosenberg (17:17)

Yes.

Blanderson Hooper (17:17)

And it's to coincide with the, the beginning of his 2130 day consecutive game stre five years ago. I talked to Don Peter about this once before. Five years ago in a three week period of time, both my dad and one of my uncles passed away due to als. And so if you go to the website for Major League Baseball they're doing auctions and they've got like one card from each with a player from each team that Signed all who were chosen by Dara Langs, who's that young MLB employee who was diagnosed a couple years ago with als. All the players are wearing patches today for, for number four and they've got a whole lot of stuff going on. And so I just wanted to call and just at least spotlight what, what Major League Baseball is doing because, you know, 5,000 people, 5,000 people get diagnosed every year. There's, there's still no cure. And just, you know, everything that the Major League Baseball, everything that they're doing is great. And so if anybody gets a chance and can go and can donate, it's for a really good cause. And so I just wanted to get that out there and I appreciate you guys giving me the opportunity to do that.

Peter Rosenberg (18:24)

No, listen, any of us, we get on Major League Baseball for some of the decisions that they make, but sometimes they can do real good. And I noticed that too. And Blanderson had gotten in touch with me off the air about wanting to get that moment and I'm glad we were able to give him that moment.

Don La Greca (18:39)

So, yeah, it's a. ALS is such an unlockable disease.

Peter Rosenberg (18:44)

It's.

Don La Greca (18:46)

If you've ever had a friend and anyone you know that's passed away from it, it's just as bad a thing as you'll ever see in your life.

Alan Hahn (18:51)

Just real quick, the auction, mlb.com LGday auction and it has commemorative, one of a kind, authenticated, autographed Lou Gehrig day Tops now card. So one for each team with each player that Sarah selected. Each player that was selected by her has a connection to Lou through their passion of the game, a unique statistical connection. And it also could have support for the ALS community. But there's also this. As part of the auction, fans can bid on a priceless Yankees experience that is provided by the sponsor, MasterCard. But still, if you're a Yankees fan, it's something also to check out. So it is something to draw attention to it and something to honor, of course, Lou Gehrig.

Don La Greca (19:42)

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Peter Rosenberg (20:03)

Communities.

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Peter Rosenberg (20:39)

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Alan Hahn (22:24)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter Rosenberg (22:27)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Alan Hahn (22:29)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Peter Rosenberg (22:37)

Nestled in the heart of the Riviera, Maya Ferma Maya Copa offers a luxury escape like no other. Ideal for travelers seeking a summer Getaway. The stunning resort boosts or boasts pristine beaches, lush mangroves and world class amenities, including the award winning Fairmont Spa and the world class El Camillion Golf course, home of the LPGA LIV and PGA Tours. ESPN New York will be sending one lucky winner and guest to this all inclusive resort for seven days and six nights including round trip airfare, airport shuttles and a day on the golf course. For trip details and to enter, check out the ESPN New York app and go to Fairmont Meacopa Tile and submit your entry. I want to also mention while we're Talking about this, August 23rd is going to be the Mark Sasso softball.

Alan Hahn (23:30)

All right.

Peter Rosenberg (23:31)

And when I was on with unsportsmanlike on Friday, Canty confirmed.

Alan Hahn (23:37)

Nice.

Peter Rosenberg (23:37)

So Chris Canty is going to participate. Alan Hahn, of course, Marty Lyons, Greg Buttle, all the usual suspects we'll add to the list. I haven't checked with Peter yet, but I think because it's August, there's a chance.

Don La Greca (23:50)

What was the date you gave?

Peter Rosenberg (23:51)

August 23rd?

Don La Greca (23:52)

I believe so.

Peter Rosenberg (23:53)

All right, so it's happening. We'll give you more details as we get closer and closer. But you know how fast summer goes, guys. Pretty, pretty.

Alan Hahn (24:01)

I don't want it to go fast. Needed to go slow.

Don La Greca (24:04)

Yeah, I can't have it go fast. Everything's going fast enough.

Peter Rosenberg (24:07)

It's.

Don La Greca (24:09)

Can't do it.

Peter Rosenberg (24:10)

So we're getting a large, like getting sick of the Dodgers. The Mets played them two out of three. Mets took two out of three from the Dodgers. Could have swept the series. Also could have gotten swept. It was that close. And then the Yankees just played the Dodgers. Now the Mets are out in LA.

Alan Hahn (24:22)

Playing the Dodgers right after the Yankees.

Peter Rosenberg (24:23)

Like enough already.

Alan Hahn (24:24)

Yeah, it's a weird schedule, but if you're soto like this is another opportunity to take, you know, build off of something. You know, everybody's watching. It's, you know, it's not the weekend, it's, it's middle of the week. But you're still going to have a lot of eyeballs on this and you know, can he put on a little show out there?

Peter Rosenberg (24:43)

Yeah, he definitely had a good series against Colorado, but that's, you know, major league of Jason at this point. I mean, 9 and 59.

Alan Hahn (24:50)

And are they on pace to have a worse season than the White Sox?

Peter Rosenberg (24:54)

Way worse.

Alan Hahn (24:54)

Worse than the White Sox.

Peter Rosenberg (24:56)

They were on last week. I was listening to the Met game and Howie Rose said they're on pace for 27 wins. They haven't won since.

Alan Hahn (25:03)

My God.

Peter Rosenberg (25:04)

Well, think about it 9 and 50.

Alan Hahn (25:05)

So, yeah, I heard they were like the second closest to 50 losses, the second fastest, I mean, to 50 losses.

Peter Rosenberg (25:13)

And then I think the other one was like back in the 80s, 18 something.

Alan Hahn (25:16)

Yeah, well, think about it, man.

Peter Rosenberg (25:18)

If you are. So double it. So let's say they're 9 and 50.

Alan Hahn (25:23)

Right?

Peter Rosenberg (25:23)

So extrapolate out to 18 and 100.

Alan Hahn (25:27)

Right. My God.

Peter Rosenberg (25:28)

Right. And that's still 54 games left. I mean, this team is. Listen, they might get hot, I guess, or whatever, but really, they. They might. Well, you know what's interesting is that because I follow it because the Mets hold the record for. Or held the record for the most losses ever that was broken by the White Sox. But they still have the fewest wins because two games weren't played in 62. So they had a 40 and 120 record. So whenever a team comes close, I keep an eye on it to see if the record will fall. It fell last year. The White Sox kind of went on a little bit of a two to the end of the season. The. I think it was the O3 Tigers were on pace to obliterate it and actually like won seven of their last eight games to avoid breaking the record. But this team is going to. They're going to lose 130 games. Alan. Now, what should baseball stand for that? How do they stand?

Alan Hahn (26:18)

What do you do? You can't call.

Peter Rosenberg (26:20)

Obviously you're not trying. You can't.

Alan Hahn (26:21)

They fired the manager already. What do you do?

Peter Rosenberg (26:23)

Which is ridiculous because Bud Black is a good manager.

Alan Hahn (26:25)

No, what do you do? What do you do?

Peter Rosenberg (26:27)

Well, obviously you spend the money. Are you doing anything? I mean, you don't get to be that bad unless it's complete mismanagement or you know what, you're tanking. You got to try. You. You're influencing the schedule.

Alan Hahn (26:39)

When the season started again, I did not pay attention to the Colorado Rockies. No, they knew they were MLB previews.

Don La Greca (26:46)

Really?

Alan Hahn (26:46)

Were they supposed to be at that bad of a team? Like, oh, this is. I don't think it's going to be trash or they just have some injuries or pitching hasn't gone well. Like, there has to be something that is contributing to this that goes beyond their tanking bad.

Peter Rosenberg (26:58)

But, but, but you now live in a world. In a world where if you're not going to be good, then. Then stink as bad as you can. Right? Like, what's the sense if, if you're going to lose 100 games, why not lose 130? Right. You want the draft pick you're encouraged to kind of do that. I think it's bad for the sport. I think it's bad for anybody that's in that organization. It's embarrassing. But you. You wonder now, you saw it work for the Astros, right? You saw it work for the Cubs. You know, the Sixers are trying to make it work. It's not working. But you're living in a world where if I'm not going to be spending money and my team's going to be bad, be as bad as I can be. But you're compromising things. Like, it benefited the Mets, but like anybody that plays the Rockies, they got like a free free wins coming. And the Mets gets where the Mets are going. After la, they're going to Colorado to play the Rockies. It's. It's bad. It's. Some teams are going to be bad. Just.

Alan Hahn (27:49)

They're going to play them again, like, right away. That's the next series.

Don La Greca (27:53)

Oh, boy. Juan Soto salivating, right?

Alan Hahn (27:55)

Please.

Peter Rosenberg (27:56)

Especially there.

Alan Hahn (27:57)

This could get him going.

Don La Greca (27:58)

But he's back, by the way, so. So Anthony's back.

Alan Hahn (28:00)

Anthony checked the over under for them. Wins was like 58, so they're expected to be 100. So they were supposed to be a.

Peter Rosenberg (28:06)

Bad team, but they're on pace to lose, like, 135. Yeah, I think they've lost every series, they said 22 consecutive series.

Alan Hahn (28:15)

Yeah, they have lost every series.

Peter Rosenberg (28:16)

So it has to be every series so far this year. Yeah, it's. It's embarrassing.

Alan Hahn (28:20)

Yeah. Well, at least it's not here.

Peter Rosenberg (28:23)

Let's go to a baritone in Queens. You're on espn, New York. What's up, man? Hey, guys, I want to say a few things. First, I'm not, you know, I don't want Tom Thibodeau fired. I mean, he did a good job because he got us into the Eastern Conference finals. But, you know, I think that he.

Blanderson Hooper (28:46)

Could have done some things better.

Alan Hahn (28:49)

As far as adjustments.

Peter Rosenberg (28:51)

I know fans are saying, all right.

Alan Hahn (28:53)

Let'S trade this guy and this guy.

Peter Rosenberg (28:55)

But with the first and second aprons, I think this day and age now, you have to develop, you know, your rookies and, you know, either guys from the G League, you know, times have changed. And Alan, I want to ask if you think that if the Knicks need to make a significant change in the bench, you think that either Hart or Robinson is going to. One of them are going to have to be traded for them to build that bench?

Alan Hahn (29:28)

Well, you're going to need to build a bench because several of the bench Players are free agents. That's one thing to think about. You got to find them. You have a mid level exception. You can use that to try to bring in somebody. But it all depends on what's available and what fits with you. That's, you know, that's why I got to see it. Like, let me, let's, let's get to the off season and see what's out there. But it's clear, while Deuce McBride's a nice player, I think you need somebody a little more experienced that knows how to run an offense that you can sometimes play next to Brunson, so he's off the ball. I think that's, if you can find a vet like that, it'd be helpful. I do think you need, you know, the Robinson thing's interesting because he's going to have a ton of value and can you get a piece or two with him and then find another big man that is a little more, you know, serviceable on the offensive end? Now you're not going to get anybody as good as him rebounding wise and defense, he's so valuable. But sometimes you got to rob Peter to pay ball. I mean that's just a real thing with roster construction. And that's why there's not easy decisions to make.

Don La Greca (30:38)

But people do have to prepare that at some point if you want to do something, if it's going to be an actual thing, you're going to lose something and it may be someone you're like, but I love Mitch.

Alan Hahn (30:49)

Yeah, But I love DiVincenzo.

Don La Greca (30:51)

It's going to take something that you don't want to lose.

Peter Rosenberg (30:54)

He give you anything offensively?

Alan Hahn (30:56)

He'll get you about the free throws, million offensive rebounds.

Don La Greca (30:59)

Yeah, more than, more than anyone.

Peter Rosenberg (31:00)

But he's not so not going to score. So when he's on the court, you're defending four instead of five and they're not and that, and that's the issue.

Alan Hahn (31:08)

At least Hart's a guy that's like a low key triple double guy though. 10-10-10 guy.

Peter Rosenberg (31:13)

Right.

Alan Hahn (31:14)

Like he does do that. It's. But again, team started calling him out with his. Hesitant to shoot, leaving him open with the, with the awareness that he does. And then there's also. He's 64 and he plays 64 at the forward position. And so there's times where he's going to the basket and he's small by 4 or 5 inches.

Peter Rosenberg (31:33)

Yeah.

Alan Hahn (31:34)

So there's also that. But he's, he's so valuable though.

Peter Rosenberg (31:38)

Jay in the car, you're on espn, New York.

Blanderson Hooper (31:41)

Hey, guys, listen, thank you for. You guys are the first guys like that are being reasonable here.

Alan Hahn (31:46)

Like, who's not being reasonable?

Blanderson Hooper (31:48)

I wanted to just make. Well, I'll give you an example. Like, Carlin earlier said that, oh, you know, someone said, hey, you got to save the course like the Pacers. He said, well, the Pacers could have saved the course because I'm like, the Knicks, they didn't get lucky on their relatives the conference finals last year, so they could have stayed the course. And I'm like, well, actually they had, they had. They didn't look to be depleted.

Alan Hahn (32:09)

And hang on, the Pacers didn't get lucky last year. The Pacers didn't play a healthy team.

Blanderson Hooper (32:19)

Exactly. And he said that they were able.

Alan Hahn (32:21)

Bucks didn't have Giannis or Date.

Peter Rosenberg (32:23)

Oh, my. Okay, well, Chris's title.

Alan Hahn (32:26)

I love, I love Chris, but that's a, that's a. He missed. Missed a little detail there.

Blanderson Hooper (32:32)

Yeah. So. And that's my point. Like, you gotta say that you can't keep making trades every year. And then the whole thing with Cat. He deserves criticism. But the man was the. What he had the highest plus minus of all the starters. Like, we gotta, like, gotta, like at least look at. We gotta kind of, you know, relax a little bit. And I think that you, you know, you guys have at least are being reasonable about this. Unless you can get Yanis in a good trade. You gotta save the course and let these guys like gel right and learn their roles even better and communicate better with another year under the boat.

Alan Hahn (33:01)

More time, more experience, fans, thank you.

Peter Rosenberg (33:03)

Get caught up like we see it with the Mets. Well, they better win a World Series this year. Well, he signed a 15 year contract. I'd like to see them win a World Series.

Don La Greca (33:10)

We got some time.

Peter Rosenberg (33:11)

There are, there's a little time here. They made the deal to beat the Celtics. They assumed the Celtics would be the conference final opponent. What's interesting is, would this have happened in the second round if they met the Pacers in the second round and not the conference final? Like, who knows how it would have worked out. The fact is there were one of four teams left, technically one of three teams left because Minnesota bowed out earlier.

Alan Hahn (33:31)

That's right.

Peter Rosenberg (33:32)

And I don't know if they would have won tonight had they won game one. I don't know if everything would have went the same had they held on to that leading game one. Who knows? They lost the series in six, right? Tip your cap to the Pacers. They were the better team. As far as who to root for, I'm always of the corner. I want the team that beat me to win the chip. Because then I could say, so you.

Alan Hahn (33:51)

Think the right thing to do if you're a Knicks fan, is to want the Pacers to. Whether they win or not. You know, they don't have to win the championship, but make it like a six to seven game. Like a. Like, boy, that they really give the Thunder all you have. Then you could say, well, wow, all right, that Pace team was really good. Or if they get swept, is that worse? Because now you're like, oh, my God, they didn't even put up a fight against the Thunder.

Peter Rosenberg (34:14)

But see what's interesting which is better. That's the way I go with all the devil's advocate to. That is, well, then that could have been us. Then we. We did miss a chance to win the championship because if the Pacers could beat him, then we certainly could have beaten them. But I think you probably hate the Pacers if you're a Nick fan.

Alan Hahn (34:30)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (34:30)

And you probably want them to get swept.

Alan Hahn (34:33)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (34:33)

But if they get. I guess the one difference is it looks like nobody was going to beat the Thunder, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway. So you might as well just root for the Pacers to get swept because you hate Aliburton, you hate the Pacers.

Alan Hahn (34:43)

And just want to be embarrassed.

Peter Rosenberg (34:45)

The one thing I will tell you, I wonder if Peter. Go ahead. Would. Would agree with me because we were talking about the ratings and what the NHL Stanley cup might do if they've got a classic series and this ends up being a dog in the NBA.

Alan Hahn (34:55)

Okay.

Peter Rosenberg (34:57)

Is the. I just lost my train of thought. I hate when that happens. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

Don La Greca (35:08)

Isn't it the worst? It doesn't happen often.

Alan Hahn (35:09)

When I look on his face, though, I was like compelled. I was on the edge of my seat because I thought, this is comp. Good.

Peter Rosenberg (35:13)

It was really good.

Don La Greca (35:15)

It was about. It was related to what we said with the hockey. And could the hockey beat the finals with the right game.

Alan Hahn (35:24)

But I.

Don La Greca (35:25)

You know what? Maybe those are your memory, Carly.

Peter Rosenberg (35:29)

So many cat that I believe that New York is out on this series. Oh. Because like that could have been us. I hate the Pacers. No matter what, I'm not watching New York.

Alan Hahn (35:39)

New York will come back.

Don La Greca (35:40)

I agree.

Alan Hahn (35:41)

If there's a game five, because that come back, I guarantee you New York's not watching the two games in Indiana.

Peter Rosenberg (35:50)

I think New York is checked out now.

Alan Hahn (35:51)

If they Five, though. You start. You start coming back in. I think I need a week to get over.

Peter Rosenberg (35:55)

If you're a basketball fan and compelling basketball is happening. How do you know?

Alan Hahn (35:58)

Well, that's a basketball fan you're talking about also. But the difference between somebody who's a fan of the game, who's going to be all in no matter what, versus a fan who's like, I'm. I can't watch basketball for at least.

Peter Rosenberg (36:09)

A week, I would think, in that. Yeah. Because I think a lot of Nick fans are just like, you know what? I can't.

Alan Hahn (36:13)

I'm just so sick of it.

Peter Rosenberg (36:14)

And so when you talk about ratings, if you lose the number one market.

Alan Hahn (36:17)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (36:18)

You know that that can affect things a little bit.

Alan Hahn (36:21)

Speaking of number one, I think you're right, though.

Don La Greca (36:22)

But I think people are out. It would have to become awesome. Not just a game.

Alan Hahn (36:26)

5.

Don La Greca (36:26)

I think they need it to be like, everyone's talking about this.

Alan Hahn (36:29)

Yeah. Yeah. That's if it's good. Can I, can I give a hockey take? Speaking of number one market on the finals, I know the finals aren't until Wednesday and we'll have plenty of time to talk.

Don La Greca (36:40)

You know, you want to tease this.

Alan Hahn (36:42)

But I'm just saying, like, you know, we got before enn. Are you. You okay with me? I have a little.

Don La Greca (36:46)

You want to set this up?

Alan Hahn (36:47)

I have a little take about the Stanley cup final and how it pertains to New York.

Peter Rosenberg (36:52)

I like it.

Don La Greca (36:53)

I'm intrigued.

Peter Rosenberg (36:56)

Hey there, travelers. Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music.

Don La Greca (36:59)

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Peter Rosenberg (37:01)

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Alan Hahn (37:26)

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Peter Rosenberg (37:45)

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Alan Hahn (37:47)

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Peter Rosenberg (37:55)

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Don La Greca (37:56)

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Peter Rosenberg (37:57)

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Alan Hahn (38:09)

Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

Peter Rosenberg (38:10)

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Alan Hahn (38:26)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter Rosenberg (38:29)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Alan Hahn (38:31)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so the NBA finals do not start until Thursday. The Stanley cup final begins Wednesday night in Edmonton. Game 1, rematch of last year. Panthers and the. And the Oilers. And you're saying. What the hell are you talking about hockey right now for? Well, because there is a New York angle to this. At least. At least that could. There could be. Okay, now don't. Connor McDavid is the best player in the league. Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (39:03)

Yes.

Alan Hahn (39:03)

Okay. He has been trying. This is second shot now at trying to win a Stanley cup for the Oilers, who haven't won one since 1990. Canada, a Canadian team hasn't won one since 93.

Peter Rosenberg (39:14)

Right.

Alan Hahn (39:16)

And you know, the fact that they got back again says a lot about how good the Oilers are, especially with him. He's in. He's in the second to last year of a 10 year deal that he signed or eight year deal, I should say he signed.

Peter Rosenberg (39:30)

Yeah, eight years.

Alan Hahn (39:32)

So he'll be going into his walk year next season. His longtime agent that he's known since He's, I think 15 years old, is Jeff Jackson, who is the general manager now. The Oilers. Convenient.

Peter Rosenberg (39:44)

Right.

Alan Hahn (39:45)

He's no longer his. His age and he's now the general manager. He's running the. McDavid, if you're the Oilers, regardless of what happens at the end of the series, win a cup or lose again, the priority is to give him an extension or make him have him sign an extension this summer. Then he doesn't go to free agency. Right?

Peter Rosenberg (40:06)

Right.

Alan Hahn (40:07)

But should he. Even if he wins a cup with this team, what else would he owe them? It would almost make it easier for him to say I gave you everything. Now, I don't think Connor McDavid, who's a Canadian, I believe he's from Toronto. Right. He doesn't seem like the type that feels he needs the big market or the US or any of that stuff. It doesn't come off that way. But if you're Gary Bettman, don't you need him in a major market in the U.S. well, don't you feel like having a guy like him? And if you're the Rangers, don't you have to keep an eye on this situation and find hell or high water if he doesn't sign an extension and he's going to test free agency for whatever reason that he might give, you got to do whatever it takes to be in position to offer him what it takes to get him in New York. Because for not just for the Rangers, for the sport, it would be massive because him staying in Edmonton is like Mike Trout staying in Anaheim. It doesn't do anything for the game. And all it does for. It's fine for him, especially he's going to get paid. He'll be in Canada, be fine. But it's for the game itself and for his own image. It's a big deal.

Peter Rosenberg (41:26)

I understand. But here's the difference between Mike Trout and Connor McDavid. It's not so much that Mike Trout's in Anaheim, it's that Anaheim never won.

Alan Hahn (41:33)

Never.

Peter Rosenberg (41:33)

I know the fact that he's in a.

Alan Hahn (41:35)

But I mean, at a time, Mike Trout was like the best player in the sport before Judge came around and he was like nobody knew who he was.

Peter Rosenberg (41:41)

Right. But. And, but partially it's because he's always hurt. You know, he's hurt now and his team never plays any significant games.

Alan Hahn (41:48)

Okay.

Peter Rosenberg (41:49)

However, Edmonton's now in their second consecutive Stanley Cafe. They're a perennial playoff team. So he's been seen. Plus, you remember Gary Bettman during the lockout? That whole lockout was to save the Canadian franchise.

Alan Hahn (42:00)

I understand.

Peter Rosenberg (42:01)

So I don't know how hot he is to get him in Boston, New York, listen, maybe even in Toronto. Right. That would probably help the league too, to have him in a big market. But remember, this is not the Wayne Gretzky situation in Edmonton where Peter Parkington had to trade. Wayne couldn't afford to pay. He signed him a lifetime contract. There was no cap.

Alan Hahn (42:17)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (42:18)

There's a cap here. So there's really not much more money to be made going out unless he's interested in. Maybe if I'm a Ranger or Bruin, I'll get more.

Alan Hahn (42:25)

It's a bigger.

Peter Rosenberg (42:26)

I'll be doing Duncan commercials instead of Pasternox.

Alan Hahn (42:28)

Bigger. Bigger profile stuff.

Peter Rosenberg (42:30)

But he seems like a kid, that he's a Canadian kid. Edmonton, yeah, it's an outpost to us, but it's not. They've gone to more Stanley cup finals since 1980 than any other Canadian franchise by far.

Alan Hahn (42:43)

Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (42:43)

Their ninth final appearance and seconds Montreal with four.

Alan Hahn (42:46)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (42:47)

So I don't know if either have an appetite to make it happen. It would be great to see him play in a major market, but at the end of the day, I just don't know how much it moves his needle. Like, where does he go? Like, how much more money? And again, he can't make.

Alan Hahn (43:02)

But he doesn't seem like that's on his radar when it comes to, hey, I want to be a big star. I think I could do more with my career off the ice and all that stuff. He doesn't seem like that type, so I completely understand. But it is something that is interesting about, like, the situation of, like, him at this point right now with the opportunity to go into free agency and see what the options could be. In any other sport. We just saw Soto do it like in any other sport. This is a major point for any player in his career, especially at his age. Like, this is probably his last big money contract. Do you want to spend the rest of your career in Edmonton, or do you want to explore what life would be like playing in another market, in a US Market? But I. I came in with a caveat that he doesn't seem like that. Austin Matthews might be more like that, but he doesn't seem like that because, man, the best player in the league is a.

Peter Rosenberg (43:54)

Is an American kid.

Alan Hahn (43:56)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (43:56)

You know, grew up in Phoenix, you know, so maybe he feels the desire to go back.

Alan Hahn (44:00)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (44:01)

You know, Gretzky, you know, married a Hollywood actress. Like, there was a. He went to la. You were trying to prop up a major market franchise, but Mark Messier won.

Alan Hahn (44:10)

Another cup without Wayne and then left two again.

Peter Rosenberg (44:14)

That was because Edmonton needed to get out from his contract or knew they couldn't pay him when he became a free agent. It's different now on the salary cap sport. And again, would it be like when in 88, when Wayne, he's a king, and all of a sudden he's hosting Saturday Night Live. He's in the Bo Knows, you know, commercial.

Alan Hahn (44:33)

He's a Nike guy. Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (44:35)

Would that happen to McDavid? I mean, I thought I was gonna ask. I don't know.

Alan Hahn (44:39)

You don't think, like, McDavid would suddenly kind of get on that Mount Rushmore of superstar athletes at this time?

Don La Greca (44:45)

Let me ask you a question. How much I really. This is in earnest. This is not rhetorical. How much did Sid And Alex Ovechkin, like, really changed this league, honestly. I mean, in. Bottom line wise, did they, like, was the game markedly more popular because they had these two incredible offensive powerhouses against each other for 20 years?

Peter Rosenberg (45:08)

I mean, honestly, where it was before the lockout. Yes. Now, was it the lockout and changing the sport, making it more fun, more goals, or was it the fact that coming out of the lockout, you had Ovechkin and Crosby? I could say rivalry did change. It did. Yeah. I mean, we're. I. I think the sport is way more popular than it was 20 years ago. How do you feel this.

Don La Greca (45:28)

That's a good question. How do I.

Alan Hahn (45:30)

You're gonna hate this. As a Penguins.

Peter Rosenberg (45:31)

ESPN couldn't wait to get rid of Hawk.

Alan Hahn (45:33)

Yeah.

Don La Greca (45:33)

And they wanted.

Peter Rosenberg (45:33)

And they wanted it back.

Alan Hahn (45:34)

Yeah.

Don La Greca (45:35)

Do I.

Peter Rosenberg (45:35)

But.

Don La Greca (45:35)

But do I?

Alan Hahn (45:36)

Like.

Don La Greca (45:36)

You guys are both very close to it. I'm trying to decide if I actually think it's a more popular game now than it was.

Alan Hahn (45:43)

No, I. I'm telling you. And this all started with Gretzky. Gretzky went to la. Meshe went to New York. Boston had Neely, and Boston had had superstar. They loved that team. Chicago. They were in a Cup final.

Don La Greca (45:59)

Roenick, and they were in a Cup final.

Alan Hahn (46:01)

Think about it. You had the Kings in a Cup final. You had Chicago in a Cup final. You had Boston in a Cup final. Minnesota got to one, and the Rangers.

Don La Greca (46:09)

Are coming off of two cups with Mario.

Alan Hahn (46:11)

Yeah, but. But I'm talking about your major markets were all early 90s. They all were in the Cup Final, major markets, all in a row. That was significant. They didn't have to win, because I think the only one that won were the Rangers. If I'm not mistaken, the rest of them all lost, but they still were there.

Don La Greca (46:29)

So I see what you're saying. So it's less about the player, and it's more about what the player could do for a marquee team in a marquee.

Alan Hahn (46:36)

What did that do for the NHL, the NHL in the early 90s. And what they were able to become is why there was NHL tonight on ESPN2, where you could watch a billion games. And why the league? That's why. 95. That lockout killed the lockout, but it was. It was on a heater. Remember? It was a Sports Illustrated cover.

Peter Rosenberg (46:51)

Yeah. What's hockey? The NBA or the NHL? Then they go. Then they. Then they had a lockout. But I'm telling you, that's the only.

Alan Hahn (46:57)

Reason why I bring it up.

Peter Rosenberg (46:58)

Lockout. ESPN wanted Out.

Alan Hahn (47:00)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (47:00)

No ratings.

Alan Hahn (47:01)

There was an outdoor network, and then.

Peter Rosenberg (47:04)

All of a sudden now you come out of the lockout, they change the rules. Ovechkin, Crosby and now ESPN want it back in. TNT is it?

Alan Hahn (47:11)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (47:12)

I mean, there were nobody bidding. You know, they were going to have to pay to be on television. So there's no question it's hotter and it's continuing to grow. So. But do you hate that, that change?

Alan Hahn (47:22)

Do you hate that?

Peter Rosenberg (47:22)

Like, I don't.

Alan Hahn (47:23)

Just something to watch, just something to keep an eye on.

Peter Rosenberg (47:25)

I don't hate it, but I think we are get what we're seeing. And with the ratings being good last year, relatively speaking, is that we're getting to the point where maybe the star can drive the market. Like, it didn't matter where LeBron was. Didn't matter. He was in Cleveland. Yeah. It became must see. Is McDavid to the point where, hey, it's must see now, can he become the guy that slays the dragon? The first Canadian franchise to win in over 30 years. Like, it just becomes a bit of a thing having Florida be good when there wasn't even hockey in Florida 30 years ago.

Alan Hahn (47:55)

It's still South Florida, though.

Peter Rosenberg (47:56)

That's.

Alan Hahn (47:57)

That's a lot of people.

Peter Rosenberg (47:57)

If the Rangers are playing on Wednesday in Edmonton, it's. I think there's a legitimate chance it could beat the NBA Finals. If the NBA Finals is a dog.

Alan Hahn (48:06)

You know, I don't think that's a crazy take at all. And if McDavid gives you the. What was a game five and six where he was otherworldly and everybody was watching. You were hearing from all the star athletes, NFL players, NBA players were reacting to McDavid.

Peter Rosenberg (48:21)

Who were the two Mavericks that were at the game? The game five in Dallas. It went viral. I don't. I didn't recognize names. There were two Mavericks. I don't remember they were in Dallas. Jerseys. And they were, like, captivated by McDonald. David, like, jumping up and down and freaking out like it's exposure to the sport. But to your point, the ratings were down from last year because you had no New York, no Chicago. LA was out in the first round. No Flyers, no Penguins. Like, so it's still a regional sport.

Alan Hahn (48:49)

And the NHL is, is, you know, again, the NBA can survive at the NFL. Certainly doesn't matter in the NHL. You really need your major markets to be successful. It's way better for everyone.

Peter Rosenberg (49:00)

Oh, yeah, listen, the NBA is going to feel it. Indiana, Oklahoma City is going to. It's, it's. It's probably the, it's, it's one of the worst matchups we've seen in decades. Probably have to go back to San Antonio, New Jersey. The last time it was bad, that bad, that was, you know, 20 over 20 years ago.

Alan Hahn (49:18)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.